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religion_n apostle_n church_n doctrine_n 4,033 5 6.2595 4 false
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A82002 A sober and temperate discourse, concerning the interest of words in prayer, the just antiquity and pedigree of liturgies, or forms of prayer in churches : with a view of the state of the church, when they were first composed, or imposed. Together with a discovery of the weakness of the grounds upon which they were first brought in, or upon which Bishop Gawden hath lately discoursed, the necessity of a liturgie, or the inconveniency of altering the English liturgie, the utility of church musick, and the lawfulness of ceremonies : in which are mixed reasons justifying those godly ministers, who forbear the use of the Common-prayer, against the late out-cryes of the said bishop. / By H.D. M.A. H. D. (Henry Dawbeny); Collinges, John, 1623-1690, attributed name. 1661 (1661) Wing D449; Thomason E1086_14; ESTC R208152 100,305 119

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mean_n who_o first_o translate_v the_o service-book_n into_o english_a etc._n etc._n there_o be_v so_o many_o thousand_o minister_n to_o be_v find_v now_o in_o england_n who_o be_v able_a to_o speak_v unto_o god_n before_o people_n as_o well_o and_o orderly_o as_o if_o they_o do_v read_v those_o form_n be_v it_o not_o so_o to_o the_o schoolmaster_n who_o by_o dictate_v form_n of_o theme_n and_o epistle_n and_o oration_n teach_v his_o boy_n to_o make_v as_o good_a and_o better_a than_o his_o be_v in_o 9_o or_o 10_o year_n time_n sure_o it_o be_v rather_o a_o reproach_n to_o the_o schoolmaster_n so_o to_o inure_v his_o boy_n to_o form_n that_o when_o they_o be_v master_n of_o art_n they_o must_v still_o have_v form_n dictate_v to_o they_o without_o which_o they_o can_v do_v nothing_o xvi_o nor_o will_v the_o alteration_n of_o this_o lyturgy_n and_o not_o impose_v any_o blemish_v the_o judgement_n of_o our_o whole_a church_n our_o king_n prince_n &_o parliament_n etc._n etc._n their_o judgement_n be_v excellent_a as_o to_o those_o time_n in_o king_n edward_n his_o time_n the_o clergy_n be_v general_o popish_a and_o have_v they_o be_v leave_v to_o liberty_n will_v certain_o have_v use_v the_o mass_n or_o else_o such_o person_n as_o be_v of_o mean_a part_n most_o of_o they_o anglice_fw-la docti_fw-la such_o as_o the_o necessity_n of_o those_o time_n require_v because_o better_a can_v not_o be_v have_v in_o qu._n elizabeth_n time_n the_o state_n of_o the_o nation_n at_o least_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o her_o reign_n be_v little_o better_a witness_v the_o record_n which_o archbishop_n parker_n leave_v and_o be_v yet_o to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o library_n of_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la college_n in_o cambridge_n of_o all_o the_o minister_n in_o his_o province_n and_o their_o several_a ability_n where_o be_v 20_o anglice_fw-la docti_fw-la such_o as_o understand_v no_o latin_a for_o one_o that_o have_v a_o character_n for_o any_o learning_n see_v upon_o he_o this_o man_n 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we_o need_v not_o have_v trouble_v ourselves_o with_o a_o answer_n he_o not_o do_v this_o we_o must_v examine_v they_o all_o suppose_v that_o the_o dr._n take_v all_o these_o for_o conclusive_a argument_n in_o the_o case_n able_a to_o command_v reasonable_a and_o religious_a soul_n to_o this_o conformity_n iii_o for_o the_o pretend_a antiquity_n of_o liturgy_n his_o lordship_n may_v gather_v from_o what_o be_v already_o say_v that_o we_o do_v not_o believe_v any_o such_o thing_n nor_o have_v he_o speak_v one_o word_n to_o prove_v it_o we_o live_v not_o in_o pythagoras_n his_o school_n have_v not_o learned_a to_o submit_v to_o a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d we_o desire_v he_o to_o show_v we_o any_o authority_n for_o a_o liturgy_n within_o the_o first_o three_o century_n iv_o as_o to_o what_o he_o say_v p._n 2._o that_o his_o most_o sacred_a majesty_n in_o his_o gracious_a declaration_n have_v not_o dispense_v with_o the_o legal_a moral_a obediential_a obligation_n we_o conceive_v 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unblameableness_n of_o it_o signify_v as_o little_a for_o it_o be_v unblamable_a enough_o as_o a_o form_n universal_o impose_v 2._o as_o former_o use_v in_o a_o idolatrous_a service_n and_o for_o many_o thing_n which_o he_o never_o so_o much_o as_o endeavour_n to_o vindicate_v it_o from_o though_o tell_v he_o of_o old_a by_o mr._n cartwright_n unmask_v v._o the_o common-prayer_n book_n unmask_v the_o abridgement_n more_o late_o by_o the_o book_n call_v necessity_n of_o reformation_n by_o vavasor_n powel_n etc._n etc._n beside_o for_o what_o he_o speak_v to_o as_o to_o the_o point_n of_o baptismal_a regeneration_n it_o be_v so_o without_o foundation_n in_o scripture_n for_o all_o know_v those_o two_o text_n 3_o jo._n 5._o and_o in_o titus_n have_v other_o and_o better_a sense_n liturgy_n v._o the_o parallel_n between_o the_o mass-book_n and_o the_o liturgy_n so_o contrary_a to_o the_o analogy_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o point_n of_o justification_n perseverance_n in_o grace_n etc._n etc._n and_o the_o dr._n have_v say_v so_o little_a to_o ●lear_v it_o that_o those_o exception_n will_v yet_o stand_v good_a so_o will_v that_o as_o to_o the_o translation_n of_o the_o text_n in_o ezech._n for_o none_o be_v so_o simple_a to_o assert_v that_o we_o can_v as_o infallible_o give_v the_o sense_n of_o a_o text_n and_o put_v it_o in_o other_o word_n with_o our_o addition_n as_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n and_o sure_o we_o be_v the_o text_n in_o ezech._n in_o the_o letter_n of_o it_o speak_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o our_o liturgy_n make_v it_o to_o speak_v ix_o for_o what_o he_o urge_v as_o to_o the_o disorder_n and_o confusion_n in_o our_o church_n since_o the_o disuse_n of_o the_o liturgy_n which_o he_o much_o comment_n upon_o p._n 7_o 18_o 40._o it_o be_v no_o argument_n to_o evince_v the_o necessity_n
either_o think_v themselves_o command_v to_o serve_v god_n in_o a_o way_n worse_o than_o their_o prince_n use_n or_o that_o their_o sovereign_n and_o prince_n serve_v god_n worse_o and_o less_o acceptable_o than_o they_o do_v certain_o the_o great_a honour_n love_n and_o safety_n of_o king_n be_v from_o the_o sameness_n of_o true_a religion_n with_o their_o subject_n as_o to_o the_o main_a xii_o what_o a_o excellent_a doctrine_n this_o be_v if_o it_o be_v true_a to_o engage_v the_o king_n of_o france_n against_o all_o his_o protestant_a subject_n from_o who_o he_o differ_v as_o to_o religion_n in_o the_o main_a yet_o be_v they_o as_o loyal_a to_o he_o as_o any_o other_o do_v the_o protestant_a religion_n teach_v disloyalty_n towards_o prince_n differ_v from_o their_o subject_n in_o the_o main_a of_o religion_n we_o defy_v such_o doctrine_n and_o all_o the_o assertor_n of_o it_o xiii_o do_v it_o infer_v a_o difference_n in_o the_o main_a of_o religion_n because_o our_o sovereign_n think_v fit_a to_o use_v form_n of_o prayer_n and_o we_o use_v none_o be_v this_o a_o language_n worthy_a of_o a_o divine_a be_v the_o mode_n of_o worship_n and_o the_o main_a of_o religion_n the_o same_o thing_n fourteen_o how_o shall_v they_o think_v themselves_o command_v to_o use_v a_o better_a or_o worse_a religion_n upon_o who_o nothing_o be_v impose_v at_o all_o which_o be_v all_o we_o beg_v and_o against_o which_o the_o doctor_n argue_v xv._o how_o do_v the_o prince_n and_o his_o subject_n in_o this_o case_n the_o first_o use_v form_n of_o prayer_n in_o public_a devotion_n the_o latter_a none_o more_o differ_v in_o the_o main_a of_o religion_n than_o the_o christian_n of_o two_o family_n in_o a_o parish_n do_v where_o the_o householder_n so_o far_o differ_v each_o from_o other_o or_o how_o shall_v they_o differ_v more_o upon_o this_o liberty_n than_o dr._n gauden_n himself_o allow_v who_o will_v not_o have_v all_o person_n in_o their_o family-duty_n tie_v up_o to_o these_o form_n which_o yet_o be_v the_o king_n daily_a service_n in_o his_o household_n xvi_o to_o be_v short_a these_o discourse_n be_v but_o ad_fw-la populum_fw-la phalera_fw-la pretension_n in_o which_o all_o the_o judicious_a world_n see_v there_o be_v nothing_o of_o reason_n or_o argument_n qui_fw-la vult_fw-la decipi_fw-la decipiatur_fw-la if_o god_n have_v so_o far_o give_v up_o man_n that_o they_o can_v see_v it_o but_o notwithstanding_o all_o that_o be_v or_o can_v be_v say_v the_o servant_n of_o god_n who_o differ_v from_o their_o brethren_n in_o this_o thing_n must_v be_v bring_v into_o a_o suffer_a estate_n the_o lord_n grant_v they_o wisdom_n and_o faith_n and_o patience_n and_o provide_v for_o his_o people_n more_o able_a and_o faithful_a guide_n than_o we_o have_v approve_v ourselves_o while_o we_o have_v a_o liberty_n to_o work_v in_o his_o vineyard_n and_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n in_o any_o for_o this_o reason_n to_o forbid_v we_o to_o speak_v to_o poor_a perish_a soul_n that_o they_o may_v be_v save_v we_o shall_v be_v so_o charitable_a as_o to_o beg_v of_o god_n that_o it_o may_v not_o be_v lay_v to_o their_o charge_n but_o we_o hope_v and_o pray_v for_o better_a thing_n for_o the_o poor_a soul_n over_o who_o god_n have_v set_v we_o chap._n xv._o bishop_n gaudens_fw-la argument_n for_o church-music_n examine_v the_o novelty_n of_o music_n in_o church_n evince_v not_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n not_o in_o any_o reform_a church_n condemn_v by_o aquinas_n erasmus_n and_o by_o the_o generality_n of_o protestant_a writer_n the_o jew_n no_o pattern_n for_o christian_n in_o it_o i._o the_o bishop_n have_v spend_v himself_o much_o in_o devise_v reproachful_a term_n for_o such_o as_o be_v not_o satisfy_v in_o their_o conscience_n as_o to_o the_o use_n of_o the_o lyturgy_n and_o argue_v for_o the_o use_n of_o the_o form_n of_o prayer_n that_o he_o may_v leave_v no_o part_n of_o his_o work_n undo_v come_v to_o vindicate_v the_o chorister_n sing_v man_n and_o boy_n and_o the_o use_n of_o music_n also_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n it_o be_v only_o fit_a he_o say_v for_o those_o man_n rudeness_n to_o abandon_v church-music_n who_o intend_v to_o fill_v all_o thing_n with_o the_o alarm_n of_o war_n and_o cry_v of_o confusion_n how_o charitable_o this_o be_v speak_v with_o reference_n either_o to_o the_o pure_a primitive_a church_n or_o the_o late_o reform_a church_n or_o many_o of_o his_o brethren_n the_o sequent_a discourse_n will_v evince_v we_o dare_v not_o tender_a revile_v for_o revile_v but_o commit_v our_o case_n to_o he_o that_o judge_n righteous_o and_o offer_v our_o thought_n in_o this_o thing_n to_o all_o sober_a reader_n who_o understand_v aught_o of_o ecclesiastical_a story_n or_o right_a reason_n ii_o but_o by_o what_o topic_n will_v this_o great_a person_n prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o church-music_n 107._o just._n martyr_n qu._n &_o resp._n resp_n 107._o do_v this_o also_o come_v from_o the_o first_o century_n sure_o no._n for_o justin_n martyr_n who_o live_v in_o the_o second_o century_n let_v we_o know_v that_o the_o church_n then_o judge_v it_o a_o childish_a serve_v of_o god_n and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o receive_v in_o the_o church_n in_o his_o time_n his_o word_n be_v these_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o his_o time_n there_o be_v only_o plain_a simple_a sing_v use_v in_o the_o church_n and_o more_o than_o that_o viz._n with_o instrument_n of_o music_n they_o look_v upon_o as_o a_o puerile_a carnal_a service_n iii_o indeed_o the_o bishop_n fetch_v it_o high_a enough_o for_o he_o agree_v with_o durantus_n in_o make_v david_n the_o author_n of_o organ_n nor_o pretend_v he_o any_o authority_n but_o that_o of_o the_o jewish_a church_n that_o there_o be_v even_o by_o god_n institution_n musical_a instrument_n use_v in_o the_o jewish_a church_n be_v not_o to_o be_v deny_v whether_o in_o the_o synagogue_n or_o only_o in_o the_o temple_n be_v doubt_v the_o latter_a believe_v but_o what_o kind_n of_o music_n templ_n pol._n virgil_n l._n 1._o de_fw-fr inu●rer_n c._n 15._o hospin_n de_fw-fr ong._n templ_n be_v not_o certain_a both_o polydore_n virgil_n hospinian_n and_o many_o other_o agree_v our_o organ_n be_v not_o then_o know_v in_o the_o world_n when_o they_o first_o be_v find_v out_o polydore_n say_v be_v uncertain_a and_o in_o his_o 3_o book_n reckon_v they_o among_o those_o thing_n who_o first_o inventor_n be_v not_o know_v sure_o we_o be_v david_n instrument_n be_v string_v organ_n i.e._n instrument_n not_o such_o as_o we_o call_v organ_n iu._n but_o may_v we_o then_o agree_v that_o what_o david_n use_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n we_o may_v else_o the_o bishop_n argument_n from_o david_n use_n of_o instrument_n prove_v nothing_o let_v we_o then_o have_v altar_n and_o frankincense_n 37._o calvin_n psal_n 37._o which_o say_v mr._n calvin_n be_v every_o whit_n as_o lawful_a as_o musical_a instrument_n in_o god_n worship_n but_o sure_o nothing_o which_o be_v figurative_a and_o typical_a in_o the_o jewish_a service_n aught_o to_o be_v continue_v by_o we_o which_o their_o instrument_n of_o music_n be_v they_o prefigure_v our_o spiritual_a melody_n to_o be_v make_v in_o our_o heart_n to_o the_o lord_n the_o sweet_a music_n also_o of_o a_o conscience_n justify_v by_o faith_n and_o at_o peace_n with_o god_n say_v dr._n willet_n and_o so_o zepperus_n and_o other_o agree_v but_o who_o know_v not_o 9_o willet_n synop_n p._n 593._o quaere_fw-la 2_o sam._n in_o ch_n 6._o v._n 9_o that_o the_o jew_n have_v carnal_a ordinance_n as_o the_o apostle_n call_v they_o which_o we_o must_v not_o imitate_v they_o in_o who_o john_n 4.24_o be_v oblige_v to_o worship_n god_n in_o spirit_n and_o truth_n v._o it_o be_v as_o uncertain_a when_o organ_n be_v first_o bring_v into_o church_n as_o when_o they_o be_v first_o devise_v marianus_n scotus_n tel_fw-fr sus_fw-la that_o they_o be_v first_o send_v of_o a_o token_n to_o king_n pepin_n in_o france_n in_o which_o aventinus_n agree_v but_o add_v that_o they_o come_v not_o into_o any_o church_n in_o france_n till_o the_o year_n 828_o when_o by_o the_o industry_n of_o a_o venetian_a priest_n ludovicus_n then_o king_n and_o willing_a to_o be_v at_o the_o charge_n they_o be_v there_o set_v up_o balaeus_n tell_v we_o vitellianus_n bring_v they_o in_o anno_fw-la 660._o bellarmine_n say_v it_o be_v very_o late_o what_o balaeus_n and_o platina_n say_v arg_n 22ae_fw-la aq._n fum_o q._n 91._o art_n 2._o resp_n ad_fw-la 3_o &_o 4._o arg_n that_o vitellianus_n bring_v they_o in_o can_v be_v true_a no_o nor_o what_o almonius_fw-la say_v who_o say_v that_o ludovicus_n pius_n bring_v they_o in_o for_o it_o be_v plain_a by_o aquinas_n his_o determination_n against_o the_o use_n of_o any_o music_n in_o church_n as_o judaical_a and_o carnal_a that_o they_o be_v