Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	apostle_n	church_n	doctrine_n	4,033	5	6.2595	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A82002	A sober and temperate discourse, concerning the interest of words in prayer, the just antiquity and pedigree of liturgies, or forms of prayer in churches : with a view of the state of the church, when they were first composed, or imposed. Together with a discovery of the weakness of the grounds upon which they were first brought in, or upon which Bishop Gawden hath lately discoursed, the necessity of a liturgie, or the inconveniency of altering the English liturgie, the utility of church musick, and the lawfulness of ceremonies : in which are mixed reasons justifying those godly ministers, who forbear the use of the Common-prayer, against the late out-cryes of the said bishop. / By H.D. M.A.	H. D. (Henry Dawbeny); Collinges, John, 1623-1690, attributed name.	1661 (1661)	Wing D449; Thomason E1086_14; ESTC R208152	100,305	119

means who first translated the Service-Book into English c. there are so many thousand Ministers to be found now in England who are able to speak unto God before people as well and orderly as if they did read those Forms Is it not so to the Schoolmaster who by dictating Forms of Theams and Epistles and Orations teacheth his Boyes to make as good and better than his were in 9 or 10 years time Surely it were rather a reproach to the Schoolmaster so to inure his Boyes to Forms that when they are Masters of Art they must still have Forms dictated to them without which they can do nothing XVI Nor would the alteration of this Lyturgy and not imposing any blemish the Judgment of our whole Church our Kings Princes Parliaments c. Their Judgment was excellent as to those times In King Edward his time the Clergy were generally Popish and had they been left to Liberty would certainly have used the Mass or else such persons as were of mean parts most of them Anglice docti such as the necessity of those times required because better could not be had In Qu. Elizabeths time the state of the Nation at least in the beginning of her Reign was little better witness the Record which Archbishop Parker left and is yet to be seen in the Library of Corpus Christi Colledge in Cambridge of all the Ministers in his Province and their several abilities where are 20 Anglice docti such as understood no Latine for one that hath a Character for any Learning see upon him this man was Archbishop in the Second year of Qu. Elizabeth Undoubtedly it was an Act of rare Judgment for the Parliament then to impose Forms of Prayer nor was it likely that suddenly the whole Nation would be reformed so well that with any security or prudence the Ministers could be left at liberty Since the time of Qu. Elizabeth no Parliament medled with it King James indeed reformed it in part and declared his Judgment for it King Charles of Glorious Memory in his Meditation upon the Lyturgy though indeed he judgeth an imposed Lyturgy lawful and this as to the main very good yet declareth his readiness to have consented to amend what upon free and publick advice might seem to sober men inconvenient as to matter or manner by which it appears that his Majesty judged incapable of amendment both as to Matter and Manner XVII But it is a great Riddle to us how the amending of the Lyturgy and not imposing any universally should damp and discourage the zeal of the greatest and chiefest part of the Nation who find much pleasure and profit in the use of it For if it be still left at liberty to them if they please to use the old Forms how is their Zeal damped or discouraged by the liberty which others take It is a fiery Zeal in men certainly that must needs have all others to be of their humour as to the use of Forms of words in Prayer If by zeal the Bishop means the Fury of people against those who durst not use those Forms the God of Heaven more damp and discourage that zeal which we are sure is not according to knowledge If the greatest and chiefest part of the Nation be so zealous in this case doubtless if they be left to liberty people will generally fill in with those Ministers that do use it and there will be an ingenuous conformity which is alwaies best for a little experience will convince the furious ones of this age that Religion is a thing that must instillari not intrudi as Beza somtimes said a thing to be gently instilled and commended not bluntly and forcibly intruded and compelled Our Bishops in this point may give counsel effectual to the filling of Goals undoing of many thousands and procuring their cries unto God against them but never effectual to accomplish their designs if indeed their designs be to bring all to an uniformity in this thing But they very well know that if it be left to liberty to Ministers to use or not use the Lyturgy that experience will quickly make it appear that the greater part of more knowing and zealous people are not so enamoured upon it as they proclaim them to the world to be XVIII In the next place he tels us The Reformed part of Religion cannot be well preserved in England without it to any flourishing and uniform estate Immediatly before he told us Religion could not any where be planted without a Lyturgy Both of them Propositions of equal truth If Religion could not be planted without a Common Prayer-Book it is a wonder that the Apostles and Pastors of the Primitive Churches missed this only means For what Lyturgy was ever heard of in the Church for 400 years after Christ the great planting time if the Reformation of Religion cannot be preserved without a Lyturgy imposed or this Lyturgy alas for the Churches of God in Scotland Holland France Genevah If they have a Lyturgy how unlike is it to this Nor is it imposed nor the use of it by penalties compelled yet blessed be God the Reformation in those Churches is not less perfect than ours not less firmly preserved Let their Confessions of Faith be read or their printed Books against the Papists be read and compared with ours and let all judge What singular thing then is there in the Constitution of men and women in England that Religion in its Reformed part cannot subsist without the authoritative imposing of a Lyturgy taken out of the Roman Missal as to the far greater part Surely none will say it is because the Reformed Party of England have a more reverend opinion of Pope Gregory and the present Church of Rome than the Reformed Party in other Nations hath This indeed were a shameful reproach to the Church of England Let her Enemies lay it to her charge but let her true Sons spend their time in covering such nakedness VVe must know the Bishop's Reasons before we can believe any truth in this especially when we know that those Ministers and people who are most zealous against Popery are most averse to this Lyturgy XIX The Bishop instanceth in the matter of the Sacrament telling us Popery can never come in while the Form of Consecration prescribed in the Book of Common Prayer which is most ancient and excellent is used We must ingenuously confess that some Forms of Prayer prescribed to be read at the administration of the Lords Supper are very good and pious but we are much of his mind who said Nihil ego puto a quovis praescriptum tam exacte quin addi aliquid possit aut perfectius reddi a quovis qui ministerio dignus Altare Damasc P. 6 13. ad docendum vel movendum affectus nam facile est addere inventis praescriptis licet forte nihil exactius dari posset tamen languet oratio ubi non est verborum varietas nec prorumpunt

we needed not have troubled our selves with an answer he not doing this we must examine them all supposing that the Dr. took all these for conclusive Arguments in the case able to command reasonable and religious souls to this conformity III. For the pretended Antiquity of Liturgies his Lordship may gather from what is already said that we do not believe any such thing nor hath he spoke one word to prove it we living not in Pithagoras his School have not learned to submit to an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we desire him to shew us any authority for a Liturgie within the first three Centuries IV. As to what he saith p. 2. That his most Sacred Majesty in his Gracious Declaration hath not dispensed with the legal morall obediential obligation We conceive he means the obligation which lies upon mens consciences to observe the Civil Laws of the Nation we do not else understand his meaning If this be it the Dr. hath two things to do 1. To prove that the Common-prayer-Book vulgarly to be had is established by any Law of England we heard it was openly denied in the house of Commons in the last Parliament and we cannot find any Law to that purpose the Laws 1 Ed. 5 6. Ed. 6. 1 El. are such that our consciences tell us they daily violate the Law that read these books In the mean time we ingenuously confess That his Majesties Declaration as it cannot make an obliging Law so it cannot dissolve the obligation of it but where is the Law 2. If it could be found how far doth it oblige any mans conscience certainly not to any act of sin if we thought we could use these forms without sin we should never dispute the Law in the case but freely obey the least intimation of his Sacred Majesties pleasure V. For what he tells us p. 8. of the example of the Church since the first Century we can find no such thing VVe have said enough to that c. 3. It is an empty unproved Assertion though we know nothing but Gods Word obliging our consciences and are to learn that any examples oblige us but those of Christ and his Apostles and therefore for what he tells us p. 3. of some Ministers that have all this time used the Liturgy Others that lately have reassumed the use of it it signifies nothing to us who live by the unerring rule of Scripture precepts and presidents If others will sin surely it obligeth not us to do so too Though we dare not say they did or do sin in it VI. He urgeth it upon us next from an ingenuous Argument viz. Gratitude to his Majesty for his indulgence To which we answer That we with all humility acknowledge His Most Excellent Majesties gracious indulgence in it And in point of gratitude are willing to serve his Majesty vvith all that is dear unto us our souls only excepted vvhich we know he desireth not in token of thankfulness to his Majesty we are ready to part with any part of our livelyhoods and shall in that vye with those who pretend most to his Majesties service though many of us in several places have no benefit by his Majesties Declaration whiles some eager Lawyers and Justices still give the Statutes in charge against us and cause us to be indicted and prosecuted openly telling the people that the Kings Declaration is no Law though they also know that there is no Law for the Common-prayer yet we have an experiment of his gracious Majesties good will to us his poor Subjects and shall be vvilling by any vvay which our consciences tell us would not be sin to us to let his Majesty know our gratitude But vve are sure that his Majesty is more charitable to his peoples souls then to desire that to express their thankfulness to him they should commit the least sin against God And this is enough to excuse us from the Bishops rash charging us with Morosity Restiveness Peevishness Schismatical petulancy c. with none of which men can be charged for any action which they do or neglect that they may avoid the guilt of Sin before God whether their consciences inform them rightly or no. VII For the many Splendid words which the Bishop useth p. 23.31 to dazle peoples eyes at the apprehension of the Excellency of the Liturgy they are of no use at all for besides that if he would have made his words good he must have proved 1. That the Common-prayer hath in it a perfect Confession of such sins as all are guilty of Original Actual of Omission Commission a perfect summary of things necessary to be begged of God for all and a perfect form of thanksgiving for mercies received and all this expressed in most Significant Scriptural Language plain and affective expressions and cast into a lovely and usual method I say besides this the Excellency of no form of words in prayer can commend it to be imposed universally if such imposing be not lawful But in stead of this the Bishop gives us a parcel of fine words without a tittle of proof and contrary to the general apprehension of all Reformed Churches who never spake it more then tolerable and to the judgement of discretion which the Protestant Religion allows to all private persons so that this is but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one Drs. opinion which to us Protestants is not enough to make what he sayes a probable Doctrine VIII What he argues for it from the invalidity of the exceptions taken to it and the supposed unblameableness of it signifies as little for it is blameable enough as a form universally imposed 2. As formerly used in an idolatrous service and for many things which he never so much as indeavours to vindicate it from though told him of old by Mr. Cartwright V. The Common-prayer book unmaskt the Abridgment more lately by the book called Necessity of Reformation by Vavasor Powel c. besides for what he speaks to as to the point of Baptismal regeneration it is so without foundation in Scripture for all know those two Texts 3 Jo. 5. and in Titus have other and better senses V. The Paralel between the Mass-book and the Liturgie So contrary to the Analogy of Faith in the point of Justification Perseverance in grace c. and the Dr. hath said so little to ●lear it that those Exceptions will yet stand good so will that as to the translation of the Text in Ezech. for none is so simple to assert that we can as infallibly give the sense of a Text and put it in other words with our additions as Christ and his Apostles and sure we are the Text in Ezech. in the letter of it speaks no such thing as our Liturgy makes it to speak IX For what he urgeth as to the disorders and confusions in our Church since the disuse of the Liturgie which he much comments upon p. 7 18 40. It is no argument to evince the necessity

either think themselves commanded to serve God in a vvay vvorse then their Princes use or that their Soveraign and Prince serve God worse and less acceptably then they do certainly the greatest honour love and safety of Kings is from the sameness of true Religion vvith their Subjects as to the main XII VVhat an excellent Doctrine this is if it were true to engage the King of France against all his Protestant Subjects from whom he differs as to Religion in the main yet are they as loyal to him as any other doth the Protestant Religion teach disloyalty towards Princes differing from their Subjects in the main of Religion We defie such Doctrine and all the Assertors of it XIII Doth it infer a difference in the main of Religion because our Soveraign thinks fit to use Forms of Prayer and we use none Is this a Language worthy of a Divine Is the Mode of Worship and the Main of Religion the same thing XIV How shall they think themselves commanded to use a better or worse Religion upon whom nothing is imposed at all which is all we beg and against which the Doctor argues XV. How doth the Prince and his Subjects in this case the first using Forms of Prayer in publick Devotion the latter none more differ in the main of Religion than the Christians of two Families in a Parish do where the housholders so far differ each from other Or how shall they differ more upon this liberty than Dr. Gauden himself allowes who would not have all persons in their Family-duties tyed up to these Forms which yet are the Kings daily Service in his Houshold XVI To be short these Discourses are but ad populum phalera Pretensions in which all the judicious world sees there is nothing of Reason or Argument Qui vult decipi decipiatur If God hath so far given up men that they cannot see it But notwithstanding all that is or can be said the Servants of God who differ from their Brethren in this thing must be brought into a suffering estate The Lord grant them Wisdom and Faith and Patience and provide for his people more able and faithful guides than we have approved our selves while we had a liberty to work in his Vineyard and if it be a sin in any for this reason to forbid us to speak to poor perishing souls that they might be saved we shall be so charitable as to beg of God that it may not be laid to their charge But we hope and pray for better things for the poor souls over whom God hath set us CHAP. XV. Bishop Gaudens Arguments for Church-Musick examined The Novelty of Musick in Churches evinced Not in the Primitive Church Not in any Reformed Church Condemned by Aquinas Erasmus and by the Generality of Protestant Writers The Jews no Pattern for Christians in it I. THe Bishop having spent himself much in devising reproachful terms for such as are not satisfied in their Consciences as to the use of the Lyturgy and arguing for the use of the Forms of Prayer that he might leave no part of his work undone comes to vindicate the Quiristers Singing men and boies and the use of Musick also in the worship of God It is only fit he saies for those mens rudeness to abandon Church-Musick who intended to fill all things with the Alarms of war and Cries of Confusion How charitably this is spoken with reference either to the Purer Primitive Church or the lately Reformed Churches or many of his Brethren the sequent Discourse will evince We durst not tender reviling for reviling but commit our case to him that judges righteously and offer our thoughts in this thing to all sober Readers who understand ought of Ecclesiastical Story or right Reason II. But by what Topicks will this great person prove the Lawfulness of Church-Musick Just. Martyr Qu. Resp. Resp 107. Did this also come from the first Century Surely no. For Justin Martyr who lived in the Second Century lets us know that the Church then judged it a childish Serving of God and that it was not received in the Church in his time His words are these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In his time there was only plain simple singing used in the Church and more than that viz. with instruments of Musick they looked upon as a puerile carnal Service III. Indeed the Bishop fetcheth it high enough for he agrees with Durantus in making David the Author of Organs nor pretendeth he any authority but that of the Jewish Church That there was even by Gods Institution musical Instruments used in the Jewish Church is not to be denied whether in the Synagogues or only in the Temple is doubted the latter believed But what kind of Musick Pol. Virgil l. 1. de inv●rer c. 15. Hospin de Ong. Templ is not certain Both Polydore Virgil Hospinian and many others agree our Organs were not then known in the world When they first were found out Polydore saies is uncertain and in his 3 Book reckons them amongst those things whose first Inventers are not known Sure we are Davids Instruments were stringed Organs i.e. Instruments not such as we call Organs IV. But may we then agree that what David used in the worship of God we may Else the Bishops Argument from Davids use of Instruments proves nothing Let us then have Altars and Frankincense Calvin Psal 37. which saith Mr. Calvin are every whit as lawful as Musical Instruments in Gods worship But surely nothing which was figurative and typical in the Jewish Service ought to be continued by us which their Instruments of Musick were they prefigured our spiritual melody to be made in our hearts to the Lord the sweet Musick also of a Conscience justified by Faith and at peace with God saith Dr. Willet and so Zepperus and others agree But who knows not Willets Synops p. 593. Quaere 2 Sam. im ch 6. v. 9. that the Jews had carnal Ordinances as the Apostle cals them which we must not imitate them in who John 4.24 are obliged to worship God in Spirit and Truth V. It is as uncertain when Organs were first brought into Churches as when they were first devised Marianus Scotus tel sus that they were first sent of a Token to King Pepin in France in which Aventinus agrees but adds that they came not into any Church in France till the year 828 when by the industry of a Venetian Priest Ludovicus then King and willing to be at the charge they were there set up Balaeus tels us Vitellianus brought them in Anno 660. Bellarmine saith it was very late What Balaeus and Platina say 22ae Aq. fum q. 91. art 2. resp ad 3. 4. arg that Vitellianus brought them in cannot be true No nor what Almonius saith who saith that Ludovicus Pius brought them in for it is plain by Aquinas his determination against the use of any Musick in Churches as Judaical and carnal that they were