scripture_n the_o authority_n of_o counsel_n and_o synod_n and_o you_o shall_v find_v satisfaction_n to_o most_o of_o the_o material_a ground_n which_o have_v mislead_v you_o in_o your_o churchway_n in_o which_o answer_v you_o shall_v find_v that_o the_o perfection_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v principal_o mean_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o in_o point_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o for_o policy_n and_o external_a order_n wherein_o the_o scripture_n do_v reach_v to_o they_o it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o essential_o substantial_o and_o fundamental_o of_o government_n and_o discipline_n and_o not_o of_o the_o accidental_n accessary_n and_o circumstantial_o as_o i_o can_v abundant_o out_o of_o calvin_n beza_n zanchius_n junius_n daneus_n show_v you_o but_o i_o intend_v a_o whole_a tractate_n upon_o that_o question_n of_o the_o scripture_n how_o far_o they_o be_v a_o rule_n for_o all_o matter_n of_o external_a government_n and_o order_n in_o 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putant_fw-la inter_fw-la râ—…s_fw-la quae_fw-la traduntur_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la &_o rationem_fw-la earum_fw-la tradendarum_fw-la &_o 16._o res_fw-la ipsas_fw-la esse_fw-la duorum_fw-la generum_fw-la scilicot_fw-la alius_fw-la in_o quibus_fw-la substantia_fw-la est_fw-la &_o quasi_fw-la conpus_fw-la religionis_fw-la christianae_n non_fw-la tantum_fw-la ad_fw-la fidem_fw-la sed_fw-la etiam_fw-la ad_fw-la mores_fw-la formandos_fw-la politiamque_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la continendam_fw-la proinde_fw-la necessarias_fw-la ex_fw-la vi_fw-la institutionis_fw-la divinae_fw-la alias_o ejuâ—…_n essentiae_fw-la velut_fw-la appondices_fw-la ejusque_fw-la corporis_fw-la ornamenta_fw-la neque_fw-la ex_fw-la sâ—…_n neque_fw-la ex_fw-la institutiono_fw-la divina_fw-la necessarias_fw-la sed_fw-la potiuâ—…_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d &_o politiâ—…_n tantum_fw-la causa_fw-la in_o usum_fw-la receptas_fw-la ut_fw-la sunt_fw-la disciplinae_fw-la partos_fw-la varijs_fw-la caenoâ—…ibus_fw-la sancitae_fw-la imo_fw-la vero_fw-la ut_fw-la fateamur_fw-la quod_fw-la res_fw-la est_fw-la omnino_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la career_n traditionibus_fw-la non_fw-la scripâ—…is_fw-la sive_fw-la intelligas_fw-la quotidianam_fw-la tradendae_fw-la 20._o fidâ—…libus_fw-la ojus_fw-la veritatis_fw-la quae_fw-la non_fw-la aliunde_fw-la hauritur_fw-la quam_fw-la è_fw-la libris_fw-la sacris_fw-la rationem_fw-la sive_fw-la ritus_fw-la quosdampro_fw-la locis_fw-la tempâ—…ribus_fw-la &_o persâ—…nis_fw-la varios_fw-la aptos_fw-la tamen_fw-la exercendae_fw-la pietati_fw-la charitatique_fw-la conservandae_fw-la qui_fw-la etsi_fw-la non_fw-la extent_n in_o canone_o totidem_fw-la literis_fw-la tamen_fw-la a_o nemine_fw-la contemni_fw-la debent_fw-la eo_fw-la ipso_fw-la quod_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la pastoribus_fw-la instituti_fw-la sunt_fw-la dum_fw-la tamen_fw-la nihil_fw-la officiant_fw-la aut_fw-la sinceritati_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la aut_fw-la libertati_fw-la conscientiae_fw-la cui_fw-la propriè_fw-la leges_fw-la prescribit_fw-la non_fw-la nisi_fw-la deus_fw-la non_fw-la dicimus_fw-la omnes_fw-la liberas_fw-la ceremonias_fw-la esse_fw-la nominatim_fw-la in_o scripture_n traditas_fw-la ut_fw-la quemadmodum_fw-la se_fw-la gerere_fw-la debeant_fw-la homines_fw-la 10._o in_o sacris_fw-la caetibus_fw-la &_o hujusmodi_fw-la quas_fw-la esse_fw-la varias_fw-la &_o 〈◊〉_d pro_fw-la temporum_fw-la &_o personarum_fw-la ratione_fw-la minime_fw-la ignoramus_fw-la de_fw-la caeremonijs_fw-la inquam_fw-la liberis_fw-la quae_fw-la ad_fw-la externam_fw-la tantum_fw-la politiam_fw-la &_o decorum_n pertinent_a non_fw-la contendimus_fw-la sed_fw-la de_fw-la necessaria_fw-la doctrina_fw-la haec_fw-la perpetua_fw-la illae_fw-la vero_fw-la non_fw-la perpetuae_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la tempora_fw-la accommodatae_fw-la deinde_fw-la fatemur_fw-la apostolos_fw-la in_o singulis_fw-la ecclesiis_fw-la ritus_fw-la aliquos_fw-la atque_fw-la consuetudines_fw-la ordinis_fw-la &_o decoris_fw-la causa_fw-la sanxisse_fw-la non_fw-la autem_fw-la engl._n scripsisse_fw-la quia_fw-la high_a ritus_fw-la non_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la perpetui_fw-la futuri_fw-la sed_fw-la liberi_fw-la qui_fw-la pro_fw-la commodo_fw-la &_o temporum_fw-la ratione_fw-la muâ—…ri_fw-la possunt_fw-la praescriptos_fw-la autem_fw-la ab_fw-la illis_fw-la esse_fw-la ejusmodi_fw-la ritus_fw-la aliquos_fw-la ad_fw-la honestam_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d accommodatos_fw-la pater_fw-la ex_fw-la 1_o cor._n 11._o &_o 14._o cap._n tantum_n generalis_fw-la regula_fw-la habetur_fw-la in_o scripture_n omnes_fw-la istosritus_fw-la ad_fw-la adificationem_fw-la ac_fw-la decorum_n esse_fw-la dirigendos_fw-la sed_fw-la ipsi_fw-la particulares_fw-la ritus_fw-la non_fw-la proponuntur_fw-la at_o dicimus_fw-la omne_fw-la quae_fw-la necessaria_fw-la sunt_fw-la sive_fw-la ad_fw-la fidem_fw-la sive_fw-la ad_fw-la vitam_fw-la spectent_fw-la apertè_fw-la &_o abundè_fw-la in_o scripture_n explicari_fw-la now_o as_o 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etc._n etc._n will_v not_o be_v able_a to_o effect_v what_o they_o desire_v and_o hope_n for_o but_o it_o may_v be_v rather_o hopeful_o conceive_v that_o in_o stead_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n come_v to_o they_o these_o five_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n at_o last_o with_o other_o to_z upon_o this_o glorious_a reformation_n will_v be_v bring_v to_o join_v with_o other_o reform_a church_n according_a to_o the_o solemn_a covenant_n and_o oath_n themselves_o have_v enter_v into_o we_o find_v also_o which_o be_v as_o great_a a_o affliction_n to_o we_o as_o our_o former_a apolog._n trouble_n and_o banishment_n our_o opinion_n and_o way_n wherein_o we_o may_v seem_v to_o differ_v environ_v about_o with_o a_o cloud_n of_o mistake_n and_o misapprehension_n and_o our_o person_n with_o reproach_n beside_o other_o calumny_n as_o of_o schism_n etc._n etc._n which_o yet_o must_v either_o relate_v to_o a_o differiâ—…g_n from_o the_o former_a ecclesiastical_a government_n of_o this_o church_n 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spread_v and_o they_o gain_v so_o many_o of_o the_o magistrate_n on_o their_o side_n we_o shall_v have_v find_v there_o will_v have_v be_v no_o ground_n for_o mr_n simpson_n to_o write_v thus_o as_o be_v clear_a in_o the_o low-countries_n where_o so_o many_o minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n papist_n and_o socinian_o in_o a_o word_n till_o the_o call_n of_o synod_n and_o the_o power_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v shake_v and_o some_o arminian_n by_o flattery_n and_o policy_n wrought_v to_o put_v by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n and_o appeal_v to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o mr_n simpson_n do_v in_o this_o apology_n from_o the_o assembly_n there_o be_v not_o so_o great_a a_o defection_n both_o of_o minister_n and_o people_n unto_o error_n in_o turn_v papist_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n 3._o though_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v not_o its_o free_a course_n in_o the_o low-countries_n as_o in_o france_n geneva_n scotland_n beside_o the_o toleration_n there_o yet_o 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parliament_n shall_v please_v to_o settle_v it_o and_o that_o in_o the_o full_a power_n and_o free_a use_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n deny_v also_o a_o toleration_n for_o independency_n unto_o which_o all_o erroneous_a and_o discontent_a spirit_n upon_o all_o occasion_n will_v flow_v and_o gather_v instead_o of_o open_v a_o wide_a gate_n for_o error_n division_n and_o many_o other_o mischief_n they_o shall_v lay_v a_o sure_a foundation_n for_o truth_n and_o peace_n in_o these_o church_n and_o in_o the_o last_o word_n of_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n i_o conclude_v this_o last_o reason_n against_o a_o toleration_n the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o god_n have_v bless_v with_o so_o much_o learning_n and_o piety_n by_o this_o reformation_n and_o uniformity_n with_o other_o reform_a church_n which_o all_o of_o we_o have_v solmne_o swear_v and_o subscribe_v to_o endeavour_v in_o our_o several_a place_n and_o calling_n shall_v be_v a_o praise_n in_o the_o earth_n now_o do_v not_o other_o occasion_n call_v i_o to_o take_v off_o my_o hand_n beside_o the_o book_n itself_o swell_v already_o to_o such_o a_o number_n of_o sheet_n i_o will_v have_v answer_v all_o the_o reason_n bring_v both_o for_o toleration_n in_o general_a and_o particular_o for_o the_o congregationall_a way_n as_o that_o man_n be_v to_o be_v persuade_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o not_o compel_v as_o that_o the_o conscience_n be_v to_o be_v leave_v free_a as_o that_o the_o denial_n of_o a_o toleration_n will_v be_v a_o great_a persecution_n as_o that_o this_o be_v the_o way_n to_o make_v man_n hypocrite_n as_o that_o god_n people_n be_v a_o willing_a people_n etc._n etc._n but_o reserve_v this_o to_o another_o season_n in_o the_o close_a of_o this_o discourse_n i_o will_v propound_v these_o follow_a question_n to_o the_o apologist_n 1._o whether_o the_o command_a of_o man_n by_o the_o power_n of_o law_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n to_o do_v the_o thing_n which_o god_n 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to_o gain_v the_o great_a credit_n and_o belief_n to_o the_o thing_n assert_v in_o my_o book_n and_o to_o remove_v this_o opinion_n from_o lurk_v in_o many_o other_o bosom_n and_o in_o particular_a to_o make_v the_o charge_n sit_v heavy_a upon_o the_o anatomizer_n by_o speak_v particular_o to_o the_o matter_n of_o fact_n concern_v he_o in_o accept_v of_o his_o motion_n and_o request_n of_o prove_v the_o report_n concern_v he_o by_o witness_n and_o before_o a_o judicatorie_a i_o must_v therefore_o answer_v to_o the_o three_o proposition_n of_o the_o anatomizer_n as_o they_o have_v reference_n to_o the_o antapology_n 1._o that_o many_o thing_n report_v in_o this_o antapology_n be_v misreport_v 1._o let_v the_o reader_n observe_v that_o the_o anatomizer_n though_o he_o play_v the_o foregame_n and_o will_v be_v before_o hand_n in_o speak_v to_o a_o book_n before_o it_o come_v forth_o and_o because_o truth_n will_v hardly_o overtake_v aâ—…ye_n that_o be_v set_v out_o four_o or_o five_o 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that_o a_o man_n need_v not_o always_o suspend_v his_o practice_n though_o he_o have_v not_o a_o clear_a resolution_n of_o example_n or_o direction_n from_o the_o primitive_a church_n witness_n the_o acceptance_n of_o your_o be_v choose_v to_o the_o assembly_n as_o to_o that_o metaphorical_a expression_n of_o you_o the_o ground_n of_o your_o judge_a humane_a prudence_n so_o fatal_a to_o reformation_n lest_o by_o sow_v any_o piece_n of_o the_o old_a garment_n to_o the_o new_a you_o shall_v make_v the_o rent_n worse_o i_o answer_v if_o that_o be_v not_o understand_v aright_o and_o sober_o it_o have_v be_v and_o will_v be_v the_o ground_n of_o great_a deformation_n in_o the_o church_n and_o of_o run_v into_o error_n on_o the_o right_a hand_n thus_o the_o anabaptist_n lest_o they_o shall_v sow_v any_o piece_n of_o the_o old_a garment_n unto_o the_o new_a renounce_v their_o baptism_n and_o the_o brownist_n will_v have_v the_o material_a church_n pull_v down_o and_o our_o minister_n and_o 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a_o clear_a resolution_n from_o scripture_n example_n or_o direction_n that_o in_o so_o do_v they_o shall_v know_v more_o in_o the_o matter_n of_o order_n and_o government_n a_o second_o principle_n we_o carry_v along_o with_o we_o in_o all_o our_o resolution_n apolog._n be_v not_o to_o make_v our_o present_a judgement_n and_o practice_v a_o bind_a law_n unto_o ourselves_o for_o the_o future_a which_o we_o in_o like_a manner_n make_v continual_a profession_n of_o upon_o all_o occasion_n we_o have_v too_o great_a a_o instance_n of_o our_o own_o frailty_n in_o the_o former_a way_n of_o our_o conformity_n and_o therefore_o in_o a_o jealousy_n of_o ourselves_o we_o keep_v this_o reserve_n which_o we_o make_v open_a and_o constant_a profession_n of_o to_o alter_v and_o retract_v though_o not_o light_o what_o ever_o shall_v be_v discover_v to_o be_v take_v up_o out_o of_o a_o misunderstanding_n of_o the_o rule_n which_o principle_n we_o wish_v be_v next_o to_o
matter_n of_o great_a moment_n and_o controversy_n apolog._n we_o still_o choose_v to_o practice_v safe_o and_o so_o as_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o judge_v that_o all_o sort_n or_o the_o most_o of_o all_o the_o church_n do_v acknowledge_v warrantable_a although_o they_o make_v additament_n thereunto_o to_o this_o three_o great_a principle_n of_o you_o i_o answer_v 1._o to_o it_o general_o as_o you_o lay_v it_o down_o here_o general_o and_o afterward_o more_o particular_o to_o the_o instance_n and_o particular_n bring_v by_o you_o to_o make_v it_o good_a in_o this_o principle_n you_o labour_v to_o cast_v a_o odium_fw-la upon_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n who_o differ_v from_o you_o deal_v by_o they_o in_o such_o a_o medium_n and_o way_n as_o the_o protestant_n do_v by_o the_o papist_n whereas_o we_o allege_v against_o the_o papist_n that_o the_o protestant_a religion_n be_v via_fw-la tuta_fw-la and_o what_o we_o practise_v they_o themselves_o can_v but_o allow_v only_o they_o hold_v and_o practice_v over_o and_o above_o as_o namely_o they_o add_v to_o christ_n righteousness_n their_o own_o in_o the_o point_n of_o justification_n to_o christ_n intercession_n the_o intercession_n of_o the_o virgin_n mary_n and_o saint_n to_o prayer_n unto_o god_n prayer_n to_o angel_n and_o saint_n to_o the_o scripture_n the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n to_o our_o sacrament_n confess_v by_o themselves_o five_o other_o etc._n etc._n so_o here_o you_o say_v that_o you_o choose_v to_o practice_v safe_o and_o so_o as_o you_o have_v reason_n to_o judge_v other_o church_n do_v acknowledge_v warrantable_a but_o they_o make_v additament_n and_o this_o you_o weave_v in_o all_o along_o in_o the_o particular_a instance_n under_o this_o head_n and_o it_o lie_v upon_o they_o to_o prove_v what_o they_o add_v over_o and_o above_o now_o beside_o the_o great_a dissimilitude_n and_o difference_n of_o additament_n in_o the_o thing_n themselves_o between_o the_o protestant_n and_o papist_n and_o 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divine_n of_o note_n both_o in_o other_o church_n and_o in_o our_o own_o condemn_v as_o unlawful_a by_o calvin_n beza_n peter_n martyr_n zanchius_n bullinger_n junius_n pareus_n morneus_fw-la arnesius_fw-la voetius_fw-la etc._n etc._n with_o whitaker_n brightman_n perkins_n cartwright_n parker_n banes_n hildersham_n ball._n etc._n etc._n i_o can_v fill_v a_o book_n with_o the_o testimony_n of_o these_o and_o many_o other_o and_o i_o do_v challenge_v the_o separatist_n of_o all_o sort_n whether_o they_o of_o the_o head-forme_n the_o anabaptist_n or_o of_o the_o middle-forme_n the_o old_a brownist_n or_o the_o lowest-forme_n the_o semiseparatist_n to_o give_v i_o any_o precept_n or_o allow_v example_n of_o such_o a_o practice_n out_o of_o the_o primitive_a pattern_n show_v it_o i_o and_o i_o will_v yield_v the_o cause_n as_o for_o that_o place_n rev._n 18._o 4._o you_o profess_v against_o that_o in_o your_o 6_o t_o page_z of_o have_v any_o thought_n of_o our_o church_n or_o minister_n to_o be_v antichristian_a and_o babilonish_a i_o can_v allege_v many_o scripture_n against_o this_o practice_n jude_n v._n 19_o etc._n etc._n the_o apostle_n who_o be_v send_v by_o christ_n into_o the_o world_n to_o make_v disciple_n and_o to_o bring_v man_n from_o judaisme_n and_o heathenism_n to_o believe_v in_o christ_n and_o to_o plant_v church_n of_o such_o yet_o they_o never_o teach_v nor_o practise_v to_o gather_v and_o separate_v some_o christian_n from_o the_o rest_n one_o part_n of_o the_o church_n from_o the_o other_o to_o go_v constitute_v a_o pure_a church_n neither_o in_o corinth_n philippi_n etc._n etc._n although_o there_o be_v many_o corruption_n and_o many_o loose_a person_n but_o paul_n teach_v and_o practise_v to_o censure_n and_o cast_v out_o evil_a person_n but_o in_o case_n those_o who_o have_v power_n neglect_v their_o duty_n he_o never_o teach_v the_o godly_a to_o separate_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n celebrate_v in_o the_o public_a assembly_n much_o less_o for_o a_o few_o to_o withdraw_v from_o their_o pastor_n and_o other_o brethren_n and_o to_o set_v up_o new_a church_n of_o themselves_o you_o be_v scholar_n and_o well_o read_v in_o the_o scripture_n show_v i_o but_o any_o such_o direction_n from_o the_o apostle_n and_o i_o be_o you_o 2._o it_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o moment_n and_o controversy_n the_o right_a make_n and_o call_v of_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n now_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n according_a to_o the_o example_n of_o scripture_n hold_v minister_n be_v not_o to_o be_v make_v by_o the_o people_n alone_o and_o that_o the_o people_n have_v not_o power_n of_o ordination_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n but_o the_o presbyter_n and_o yet_o you_o have_v practise_v the_o be_v call_v and_o make_v minister_n by_o the_o people_n without_o the_o imposition_n of_o hand_n of_o the_o preach_a presbyter_n 3._o it_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o great_a moment_n and_o controversy_n whether_o private_a christian_n who_o be_v never_o train_v up_o in_o art_n and_o learning_n nor_o intend_v the_o ministry_n may_v in_o the_o public_a congregation_n prophesy_v which_o prophesy_v as_o it_o be_v not_o practise_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n so_o by_o most_o of_o they_o it_o be_v not_o count_v warrantable_a and_o yet_o you_o allow_v it_o in_o your_o church_n to_o which_o i_o may_v add_v more_o instance_n but_o that_o the_o book_n will_v swell_v into_o too_o great_a a_o volume_n to_o the_o second_o head_n it_o be_v evident_a the_o râ—…formed_a church_n practise_v more_o safe_o as_o in_o decline_v your_o way_n in_o the_o last_o mention_v instance_n in_o not_o permit_v such_o as_o be_v layman_n to_o preach_v or_o prophesy_v in_o not_o forsake_v true_a church_n or_o true_a ministry_n for_o the_o mixture_n of_o wicked_a man_n but_o rather_o cast_v out_o such_o who_o after_o admonition_n continue_v impenitent_a so_o in_o other_o practice_n practise_v as_o the_o apostle_n receive_v man_n into_o their_o fellowship_n without_o any_o such_o curious_a inquiry_n and_o long_a detention_n send_v man_n from_o one_o to_o another_o and_o require_v such_o preparative_n and_o condition_n to_o church-fellowship_n as_o your_o church_n have_v do_v the_o way_n and_o practice_n the_o reform_a church_n walk_v in_o be_v the_o good_a old_a way_n know_v and_o beat_v for_o some_o score_n of_o year_n in_o which_o so_o many_o great_a light_n and_o godly_a people_n have_v walk_v and_o so_o more_o safe_a than_o high_a and_o new_a way_n that_o a_o few_o man_n but_o of_o yesterday_o have_v take_v up_o and_o have_v not_o yet_o well_o air_v much_o less_o digest_v and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o other_o reform_a church_n france_n holland_n scotland_n i_o deny_v the_o thing_n you_o charge_v they_o with_o to_o be_v additament_n or_o to_o be_v proper_o so_o call_v for_o if_o the_o particular_n instance_a in_o by_o you_o will_v be_v find_v to_o have_v a_o foot_n in_o the_o scripture_n and_o practise_v
church_n allow_v particular_a congregation_n such_o a_o entire_a and_o complete_a power_n to_o be_v exercise_v by_o the_o elder_n within_o themselves_o and_o wherein_o not_o such_o a_o particular_a narration_n will_v have_v carry_v in_o the_o face_n of_o it_o some_o ground_n for_o the_o defference_n of_o their_o practice_n and_o allowance_n &_o may_v have_v serve_v to_o have_v point_v out_o the_o difference_n between_o your_o way_n and_o they_o but_o second_o as_o you_o relate_v the_o way_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n it_o sound_v somewhat_o harsh_a and_o strange_a that_o their_o practice_n shall_v be_v one_o way_n and_o their_o judgement_n another_o their_o practice_n to_o govern_v each_o particular_a congregation_n by_o a_o combine_a presbytery_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o several_a congregation_n unite_v in_o one_o for_o government_n and_o yet_o in_o their_o judgement_n to_o allow_v especial_o in_o some_o case_n a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o entire_a and_o 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first_o head_n namely_o what_o some_o of_o the_o old_a non-conformists'_a grant_n place_v the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n in_o the_o eldership_n of_o each_o particular_a church_n until_o they_o do_v miscarry_v and_o then_o indeed_o subjâ—…cting_v they_o to_o presbytâ—…riall_n and_o provincial_n assembly_n and_o that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v infallible_o prove_v that_o any_o of_o the_o church_n record_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v so_o numerous_a as_o necessary_o to_o exceed_v the_o limit_n of_o one_o particular_a congregatïon_n and_o that_o both_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o our_o non-conformists'_a all_o grant_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v several_a elder_n in_o every_o congregation_n who_o have_v power_n over_o they_o in_o the_o lord_n i_o answer_v as_o follow_v for_o mr_n cartwright_n you_o not_o quote_v which_o of_o his_o book_n you_o have_v reference_n to_o and_o so_o not_o know_v which_o to_o turn_v to_o to_o find_v out_o what_o you_o assert_v 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and_o elder_n where_o there_o be_v a_o co-ordination_a and_o a_o communiâ—…y_n in_o government_n as_o in_o the_o low_a country_n and_o at_o géneva_n he_o grant_v the_o thing_n contend_v for_o against_o your_o congregationall_a way_n even_o before_o miscarry_v and_o show_v thâ—…_n great_a difference_n between_o the_o diocesan_n government_n and_o the_o presbyterial_a in_o several_a particular_n and_o answer_v your_o objection_n which_o you_o common_o make_v of_o a_o foreign_a extrinsicall_a power_n and_o for_o your_o better_a satisfaction_n read_v and_o compare_v together_o the_o passage_n in_o these_o page_n of_o mr_n baynes_n diocesan_n trial_n page_n 21_o page_n 11._o what_o be_v mean_v by_o a_o diocesan_n church_n and_o in_o the_o 12_o page_n two_o first_o conclusion_n agree_v in_o and_o in_o the_o 16_o page_n and_o for_o the_o non-conformists'_a in_o their_o write_n against_o the_o episcopal_a government_n and_o diocesan_n church_n though_o they_o put_v the_o bishop_n their_o adversary_n all_o they_o can_v to_o it_o to_o make_v they_o prove_v
infallible_o and_o necessary_o a_o particular_a church_n to_o exceed_v the_o limit_n of_o one_o particular_a congregation_n yet_o they_o never_o intend_v it_o as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n now_o you_o know_v the_o say_n authoris_fw-la aliud_fw-la agentis_fw-la parva_fw-la est_fw-la authâ—…ritas_fw-la but_o show_v we_o where_o ever_o the_o old_a non-conformists'_a as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n hold_v so_o it_o will_v appear_v by_o gerson_n bucerus_n and_o by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o geneva_n amplitudinâ—…_n and_o holland_n for_o which_o mr_n robinson_n so_o object_n against_o they_o in_o his_o apology_n that_o though_o they_o be_v against_o the_o government_n of_o bishop_n and_o diocesan_n church_n that_o be_v of_o a_o head_n church_n over_o many_o congregation_n unite_v to_o it_o yet_o not_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n of_o such_o a_o city_n consist_v of_o many_o particular_a congregation_n and_o as_o for_o that_o you_o take_v for_o 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of_o
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be_v to_o obey_v and_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o whole_a company_n namely_o the_o particular_a master_n of_o other_o servant_n as_o to_o their_o own_o master_n yea_o and_o to_o submit_v to_o the_o common_a order_n and_o good_a rule_n of_o such_o a_o hall_n and_o corporation_n though_o their_o particular_a master_n do_v not_o vote_n for_o but_o against_o they_o 3._o those_o ruler_n who_o be_v of_o the_o presbytery_n be_v not_o foreign_a nor_o extrinsicall_a to_o the_o congregation_n but_o intrinsicall_a and_o natural_a as_o well_o as_o their_o particular_a elder_n so_o that_o another_o without_o themselves_o do_v not_o bear_v rule_n over_o they_o but_o all_o of_o they_o together_o by_o common_a consent_n do_v rule_v every_o one_o which_o be_v a_o most_o mild_a and_o free_a form_n of_o church_n government_n for_o the_o proof_n of_o which_o i_o shall_v not_o enlarge_v but_o refer_v you_o for_o satisfaction_n to_o what_o be_v say_v to_o this_o point_n both_o by_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o by_o some_o church_n from_o beyond_o the_o 25._o sea_n in_o their_o letter_n upon_o occasion_n of_o your_o apology_n 4._o it_o be_v a_o fallacious_a way_n of_o reason_v from_o the_o economical_a relation_n and_o government_n of_o husband_n over_o wife_n and_o father_n over_o child_n and_o master_n over_o servant_n and_o their_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o husband_n etc._n etc._n unto_o the_o ecclesiastical_a and_o political_a because_o it_o be_v not_o to_o speak_v ad_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o in_o each_o of_o these_o the_o way_n of_o government_n be_v different_a for_o instance_n in_o those_o economical_a relation_n a_o woman_n can_v have_v but_o one_o husband_n one_o man_n can_v be_v but_o her_o husband_n and_o one_o man_n a_o father_n and_o the_o wife_n and_o child_n can_v pelinquish_v they_o diâ—…avow_v they_o though_o very_o bad_a nor_o deny_v those_o duty_n they_o owe_v they_o in_o those_o relation_n though_o censure_v by_o the_o church_n but_o they_o be_v to_o obey_v they_o which_o yet_o hold_v not_o in_o the_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a congregation_n to_o elder_n and_o minister_n that_o be_v unworthy_a and_o excommunicate_v that_o the_o member_n must_v be_v subject_a to_o they_o the_o royalist_n that_o argue_v so_o from_o that_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n which_o child_n owe_v their_o father_n to_o subject_n subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o prince_n and_o the_o hierarchicall_a man_n that_o argue_v from_o what_o child_n owe_v to_o natural_a parent_n though_o wicked_a and_o ungodly_a to_o what_o the_o people_n owe_v to_o wicked_a minister_n be_v answer_v at_o large_a and_o you_o know_v what_o mr_n robinson_n and_o many_o of_o your_o way_n say_v to_o that_o now_o the_o same_o will_v serve_v to_o answer_v your_o comparison_n that_o the_o place_n hold_v not_o alike_o between_o the_o people_n and_o the_o elder_n and_o the_o wife_n and_o their_o husband_n mr_n baynes_n answer_v in_o the_o last_o page_n of_o his_o diocesan_n trial_n that_o which_o be_v object_v touch_v pastor_n and_o father_n that_o the_o similitude_n hold_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n parent_n and_o shepherd_n be_v absolute_o parent_n and_o shepherd_n be_v they_o good_a or_o evil_a but_o spiritual_a parent_n be_v no_o long_o so_o than_o they_o do_v according_o behave_v themselves_o 5._o the_o very_a instance_n you_o give_v of_o wife_n obey_v your_o own_o husband_n and_o servant_n your_o own_o governor_n do_v not_o therefore_o only_o tie_v they_o to_o civil_a subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o husband_n and_o master_n exempt_n they_o from_o subjection_n to_o any_o other_o but_o they_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o commonwealth_n and_o to_o common-lawe_n notwithstanding_o so_o neither_o do_v the_o scripture_n obey_v your_o elder_n etc._n etc._n suppose_v the_o full_a latitude_n of_o those_o scripture_n be_v of_o the_o elder_n of_o particular_a congregation_n forbid_v or_o exempt_a man_n from_o that_o ecclesiastical_a subjection_n and_o obedience_n which_o concern_v they_o as_o they_o stand_v in_o relation_n to_o the_o community_n to_o the_o three_o reason_n hint_v for_o yourselves_o and_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o the_o elder_n of_o other_o congregation_n shall_v have_v power_n and_o rule_v over_o church_n which_o they_o do_v not_o teach_v and_o feed_v ordinary_o by_o virtue_n of_o those_o forementioned_a precept_n be_v to_o you_o a_o question_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v suppose_v three_o or_o four_o congregation_n in_o one_o great_a town_n shall_v have_v minister_n in_o common_a to_o teach_v and_o feed_v they_o ordinary_o as_o in_o holland_n will_v you_o in_o such_o a_o case_n yield_v to_o a_o presbyterial_a combination_n if_o you_o say_v you_o will_v than_o the_o case_n be_v determine_v for_o we_o and_o thus_o i_o judge_v it_o be_v in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o primitive_a church_n but_o if_o you_o answer_v you_o will_v not_o yield_v to_o such_o a_o classical_a government_n than_o i_o reply_v it_o be_v not_o for_o want_v of_o such_o minister_n teach_v you_o and_o feed_v ordinary_o that_o you_o will_v not_o obey_v but_o upon_o some_o other_o ground_n and_o then_o this_o argument_n be_v lose_v second_o i_o answer_v your_o roll_a elder_n do_v not_o feed_v nor_o teach_v you_o ordinary_o but_o only_o govern_v you_o and_o yet_o by_o virtue_n of_o those_o forementioned_a precept_n you_o obey_v they_o and_o be_v subject_a to_o they_o so_o that_o this_o be_v no_o good_a argument_n against_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o have_v power_n and_o authority_n over_o those_o who_o man_n teach_v not_o ordinary_o for_o than_o what_o become_v of_o the_o rule_v elder_n in_o the_o church_n who_o be_v neither_o pastor_n nor_o teacher_n to_o the_o four_o reason_n draw_v from_o corporation_n who_o have_v the_o power_n and_o privilege_n of_o life_n and_o death_n within_o themselves_o which_o kind_n of_o power_n you_o will_v have_v i_o answer_v you_o can_v frame_v a_o good_a argunment_n from_o corporation_n and_o civil_a power_n to_o body_n ecclesiastical_a and_o spiritual_a power_n and_o i_o may_v give_v you_o the_o many_o difference_n allege_v by_o yourselves_o between_o civil_a power_n and_o ecclesiastical_a and_o the_o different_a manner_n of_o dispensation_n but_o i_o must_v not_o enlarge_v here_o only_o refer_v you_o for_o this_o to_o separat_fw-la mr_n robinson_n church_n mr_n burrough_n and_o theol._n dr_n ames_n 2._o corporation_n go_v according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o to_o their_o charter_n agree_v upon_o and_o make_v in_o parliament_n they_o make_v not_o themselves_o a_o corporation_n nor_o go_v not_o according_a to_o private_a rule_n and_o order_n to_o pass_v sentence_n of_o death_n etc._n etc._n but_o be_v rule_v though_o they_o have_v officer_n as_o major_a and_o alderman_n by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o so_o go_v they_o may_v more_o safe_o have_v a_o power_n within_o themselves_o but_o your_o particular_a congregation_n set_v up_o yourselves_o without_o leave_n of_o magistrate_n or_o minister_n not_o proceed_v upon_o common_a rule_n of_o government_n in_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n etc._n etc._n agree_v by_o synod_n but_o only_o upon_o your_o own_o will_n and_o private_a rule_n which_o you_o have_v fancy_v be_v lay_v down_o in_o scripture_n 3._o corporation_n though_o they_o judge_v their_o member_n and_o pass_v sentence_n of_o life_n and_o death_n within_o themselves_o yet_o sometime_o nay_o often_o in_o great_a case_n and_o offence_n their_o inhabitant_n be_v try_v and_o sentence_n pass_v upon_o they_o in_o other_o court_n of_o justice_n and_o that_o when_o they_o will_v proceed_v against_o they_o yet_o the_o matter_n be_v carry_v high_a to_o be_v try_v if_o you_o will_v grant_v this_o in_o the_o corporation_n to_o your_o congregation_n that_o assembly_n and_o synod_n may_v judge_v and_o pass_v sentence_n upon_o your_o member_n as_o oft_o
and_o restore_v mr_n ward_n agree_v upon_o be_v it_o not_o upon_o the_o news_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o probability_n of_o the_o revolution_n of_o thing_n and_o i_o propound_v this_o question_n because_o mr_n bâ—…rroughs_n who_o come_v in_o m._n ward_n place_n after_o his_o deposition_n come_v back_o to_o england_n but_o at_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o till_o he_o come_v or_o be_v resolve_v to_o come_v it_o be_v not_o probable_a m._n ward_n be_v restore_v and_o if_o so_o that_o it_o be_v do_v when_o all_o be_v like_a to_o break_v up_o and_o they_o to_o come_v fâ—…_n england_n may_v we_o not_o suspect_v it_o be_v do_v for_o a_o instance_n to_o vindicate_v your_o way_n with_o and_o to_o serve_v your_o turn_n as_o in_o this_o apology_n rather_o than_o from_o any_o necessity_n of_o right_v a_o person_n â—…jured_v or_o correct_v a_o church_n offend_v 5._o why_o do_v not_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n take_v offence_n as_o well_o at_o m._n sympson_n church_n and_o at_o his_o schism_n in_o set_v up_o another_o church_n and_o at_o all_o that_o bitterness_n evil_a speak_v between_o those_o two_o church_n the_o ground_n indeed_o and_o foundation_n of_o that_o unhappy_a business_n about_o m._n ward_n and_o of_o all_o the_o evil_n commit_v therein_o and_o according_o have_v require_v m._n sympson_n church_n to_o have_v submit_v but_o here_o be_v not_o a_o hint_n of_o this_o in_o all_o the_o relation_n of_o your_o practice_n i_o have_v a_o letter_n out_o of_o holland_n by_o i_o that_o concern_v this_o business_n write_v thus_o that_o though_o m._n sympson_n with_o sâ—…me_n fâ—…w_o morâ—…_n râ—…t_v themselves_o from_o m._n bridges_n church_n to_o the_o great_a offence_n thereof_o yet_o m._n goodwin_n and_o his_o associate_n when_o they_o come_v to_o hear_v the_o business_n about_o m._n ward_n never_o question_v that_o scandal_n i_o mean_v of_o their_o schism_n from_o the_o same_o church_n now_o if_o it_o be_v so_o be_v not_o this_o a_o partial_a remedy_n not_o reach_v to_o all_o the_o offence_n noâ—…_n to_o the_o bottom_n of_o it_o why_o do_v you_o not_o summon_v both_o these_o church_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o difference_n to_o submit_v as_o well_o as_o one_o of_o the_o church_n will_v not_o your_o principle_n serve_v in_o difference_n between_o church_n as_o for_o difference_n in_o one_o church_n or_o be_v it_o that_o there_o be_v no_o complaint_n of_o neither_o side_n or_o be_v it_o because_o you_o be_v tender_a of_o question_v the_o multiplication_n of_o church_n though_o by_o separation_n and_o schiâ—…me_n or_o what_o be_v the_o reason_n you_o question_v not_o that_o 6._o whether_o be_v the_o other_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n or_o any_o of_o they_o who_o can_v not_o but_o be_v offend_v as_o they_o of_o amsterdam_n hague_n utrich_n leyden_n delft_n call_v in_o by_o arnheim_n or_o by_o the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n to_o join_v in_o the_o hear_n try_v of_o that_o business_n and_o depose_v witness_n or_o do_v they_o send_v messenger_n or_o be_v it_o only_o agitate_a by_o two_o minister_n â—…nd_v two_o messenger_n of_o tâ—…_n church_n of_o arnheim_n one_o church_n only_o 〈◊〉_d to_o 〈◊〉_d one_o to_o one_o both_o equal_a and_o whether_o there_o can_v be_v the_o like_a majesty_n and_o solemnity_n of_o a_o meeting_n where_o they_o be_v equal_a â—…ay_v a_o inferiority_n in_o as_o much_o as_o a_o representative_a church_n consist_v of_o four_o be_v below_o a_o church_n represent_v as_o in_o a_o presbyterial_a assâ—…bly_n i_o have_v a_o letter_n from_o holland_n by_o i_o wherein_o a_o godly_a ministâ—…r_n write_v thus_o i_o be_v desire_v by_o mr_n ward_n to_o be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n but_o when_o the_o time_n come_v neither_o i_o nor_o any_o other_o english_a minister_n but_o they_o of_o arnheim_n be_v callâ—…d_v 7._o to_o what_o or_o to_o how_o much_o do_v your_o practice_n who_o be_v the_o church_n offend_v amount_v unto_o upon_o mr_n bridges_n church_n submission_n and_o your_o full_a hear_n and_o find_v both_o side_n to_o be_v in_o a_o error_n do_v you_o enjoin_v and_o draw_v up_o a_o order_n that_o the_o church_n offend_v shall_v public_o acknowledge_v their_o sinfâ—…_n abeâ—…ation_n before_o you_o and_o the_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n and_o restore_v their_o minister_n again_o and_o that_o they_o shall_v keep_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o for_o their_o sinful_a carriage_n and_o that_o the_o minister_n depose_v shall_v acknowledge_v to_o the_o church_n wherein_o he_o have_v likewise_o sin_v or_o do_v you_o leave_v they_o to_o themselves_o upon_o your_o find_v the_o offence_n to_o do_v what_o they_o think_v fit_v both_o church_n and_o minister_n as_o be_v against_o your_o principle_n for_o one_o church_n to_o decree_n and_o impose_v any_o thing_n upon_o another_o and_o so_o they_o â—…ooke_v up_o this_o way_n voluntary_o will_v you_o will_v speak_v out_o and_o once_o tell_v we_o plain_o what_o you_o hold_v and_o what_o you_o woâ—…ld_v 〈◊〉_d that_o so_o the_o reader_n may_v judge_v of_o the_o effectualnessâ—…_n of_o your_o 〈◊〉_d 8._o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n with_o the_o offend_a church_n at_o rotterdam_n do_v sit_v as_o judge_n with_o they_o oâ—…_n 〈◊〉_d in_o their_o own_o cause_n to_o examine_v depose_v etc._n etc._n or_o else_o 〈◊〉_d by_o aâ—…_n delinquent_n to_o be_v charge_v try_a etc._n etc._n 9_o i_o deâ—…e_v to_o know_v of_o you_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d he_o be_v râ—…stored_v do_v as_o forme_o officiate_v in_o that_o church_n and_o how_o long_o and_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n and_o he_o continue_v there_o as_o fellow_n minister_n and_o whether_o both_o between_o they_o two_o and_o between_o the_o church_n and_o mr_n ward_n there_o be_v that_o mutual_a carriage_n as_o before_o and_o aught_o to_o be_v between_o fellow_n minister_n and_o minister_n and_o people_n 10._o how_o can_v a_o church_n representative_a be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o allow_a remedy_n to_o take_v up_o great_a offence_n in_o a_o church_n at_o a_o great_a distance_n and_o whether_o this_o imply_v not_o a_o implicit_a faith_n in_o the_o represent_v to_o let_v the_o representer_n upon_o hear_v put_v a_o final_a determination_n and_o conclusion_n to_o great_a offence_n and_o difference_n without_o return_v back_o the_o business_n to_o the_o church_n represent_v or_o so_o much_o as_o ever_o acquaint_v they_o with_o the_o business_n before_o all_o be_v end_v as_o be_v in_o this_o particular_a case_n and_o whether_o faith_n mr_n robinsâ—…s_fw-fr argument_n against_o the_o presbyterian_o â—…bout_o the_o power_n of_o their_o elder_n be_v not_o strong_a against_o your_o principle_n and_o practice_n here_o relate_v and_o what_o ground_n be_v there_o from_o tâ—…e_a scripture_n that_o four_o man_n of_o another_o church_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o call_v unto_o and_o insist_v upon_o a_o judiciarie_n charge_v against_o they_o who_o be_v great_a than_o themselves_o namely_o against_o a_o whole_a church_n consist_v of_o officerâ—…_n and_o people_n 11._o suppose_v the_o church_n of_o arâ—…m_n who_o send_v two_o ministerâ—…_n and_o two_o gentleman_n â—…s_v messenger_n of_o their_o church_n upon_o their_o return_n back_o to_o the_o church_n and_o give_v a_o account_n of_o all_o the_o proceed_n and_o issue_n of_o that_o business_n have_v dislike_v the_o determination_n and_o judge_v some_o of_o the_o proceed_n unjust_a otherâ—…_n unsatisfactory_a and_o not_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n as_o the_o church_n of_o 〈◊〉_d may_v well_o have_v do_v there_o be_v just_a ground_n for_o it_o as_o i_o will_v show_v in_o the_o second_o particular_a under_o the_o next_o head_n what_o must_v have_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n must_v the_o messenger_n themselves_o have_v be_v now_o question_v by_o the_o church_n for_o manage_v matter_n no_o better_a or_o must_v the_o sentence_n agree_v upon_o both_o for_o the_o church_n and_o mr_n ward_n be_v reverse_v or_o must_v other_o messenger_n be_v send_v to_o hear_v matter_n again_o and_o to_o change_v or_o add_v what_o be_v amiss_o and_o what_o if_o the_o church_n will_v not_o alter_v that_o which_o upon_o so_o full_a a_o hear_n and_o trial_n be_v agree_v upon_o now_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o and_o appeal_v to_o the_o reader_n consider_v that_o the_o church_n or_o church_n themselves_o may_v probable_o and_o it_o can_v but_o be_v expect_v 〈◊〉_d and_o vary_v in_o their_o judgement_n from_o their_o messenger_n about_o the_o determination_n of_o offence_n and_o difference_n whether_o this_o be_v a_o likely_a mean_n and_o sufficient_a remedy_n to_o end_v all_o strifed_a or_o rather_o will_v not_o be_v as_o the_o begin_n of_o new_a strife_n and_o a_o occasion_n of_o endless_a contention_n 12._o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o your_o practice_n upon_o occasion_n of_o offence_n and_o
word_n to_o hinder_v the_o depose_n of_o mr_n ward_n and_o so_o to_o have_v prevent_v so_o great_a a_o scandal_n and_o offence_n as_o this_o be_v to_o the_o five_o and_o last_o general_a head_n the_o comparison_n you_o make_v between_o the_o effectualness_n and_o powerfulnesse_n of_o your_o way_n of_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n and_o that_o of_o the_o presbyterian_o to_o awe_n and_o preserve_v church_n and_o elder_n in_o their_o duty_n and_o to_o reduce_v church_n miscarry_v where_o you_o make_v the_o sâ—…ales_n fall_v on_o your_o side_n rather_o i_o answer_v beside_o some_o considerable_a thing_n already_o hint_v under_o some_o of_o the_o former_a head_n especial_o under_o the_o four_o head_n which_o do_v show_v a_o wide_a difference_n of_o the_o effectualness_n and_o success_n which_o the_o presbyterian_a principle_n and_o way_n hold_v out_o over_o your_o congregationall_a thâ—…e_o be_v many_o other_o to_o 〈◊〉_d the_o sâ—…les_n which_o i_o shall_v now_o speak_v of_o according_a as_o it_o be_v lay_v down_o here_o by_o you_o in_o the_o 17_o 18_o and_o 19_o page_n 1._o that_o you_o may_v render_v your_o way_n the_o more_o specious_a and_o probable_a you_o beg_v the_o question_n and_o take_v for_o grant_v thing_n deny_v suppose_v that_o also_o which_o never_o have_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o you_o speak_v but_o to_o a_o part_n of_o the_o way_n and_o remedy_n namely_o excommunication_n anâ—…_n from_o all_o these_o false_a premise_n you_o make_v your_o conclusion_n you_o lie_v down_o your_o way_n of_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n 〈◊〉_d that_o â—…ch_n be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d and_o way_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o be_v strict_o enjoin_v by_o christ_n â—…d_v that_o it_o be_v a_o command_n from_o christ_n enjoin_v to_o church_n that_o be_v â—…ly_o offend_v to_o denounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n which_o be_v a_o mere_a device_n of_o your_o own_o brain_n and_o sound_v out_o to_o give_v a_o colourable_a answer_n to_o that_o common_a and_o 〈◊〉_d reason_n against_o the_o churchway_n 〈◊〉_d you_o make_v that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o presbytery_n to_o be_v a_o excommunicate_v of_o whole_a church_n and_o â—…s_v deliver_v of_o whole_a church_n and_o their_o eldere_fw-la offend_v unto_o saâ—…n_n which_o be_v a_o scandalous_a charge_n lay_v to_o though_o presbyterian_a government_n and_o never_o yet_o be_v â—…rd_n of_o in_o any_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n for_o the_o space_n now_o of_o a_o hundred_o year_n past_a you_o lay_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v whereas_o in_o some_o thing_n i_o shall_v show_v the_o contrary_a and_o in_o other_o thing_n you_o may_v out_o of_o policy_n at_o this_o time_n give_v more_o than_o the_o scripture_n allow_v you_o speak_v only_o of_o excommunication_n a_o part_n of_o their_o way_n whereas_o in_o combine_a classical_a government_n there_o be_v many_o other_o mean_n and_o way_n from_o first_o to_o last_o to_o preserve_v and_o reduce_v from_o error_n and_o offence_n 2._o the_o comparison_n make_v by_o you_o between_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o independent_o stand_v in_o two_o thing_n first_o in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a proceed_n and_o power_n second_o in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n 1._o for_o the_o ecclesiastical_a you_o make_v that_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v and_o that_o of_o non-communion_n as_o effectual_a as_o excommunication_n which_o suppose_v they_o be_v as_o i_o shall_v show_v they_o be_v not_o yet_o it_o be_v a_o fallacious_a reason_n by_o compare_v the_o whole_a with_o a_o part_n for_o a_o whole_a of_o one_o kind_n may_v be_v better_a and_o more_o excellent_a than_o some_o part_n of_o another_o kind_n and_o yet_o not_o comparable_a to_o the_o whole_a now_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n in_o presbyterial_a government_n beside_o excommunication_n excellent_a to_o preserve_v and_o keep_v the_o church_n their_o reformation_n and_o constitution_n be_v settle_v by_o synod_n and_o assembly_n their_o minister_n be_v ordain_v by_o presbytery_n and_o class_n their_o doctrine_n worship_n government_n and_o discipline_n upon_o serious_a debate_n and_o by_o common_a content_n draw_v up_o then_o rule_v be_v fix_v know_v and_o certain_a their_o classical_a meeting_n frequent_a and_o constant_a with_o high_a assembly_n for_o appeal_n their_o number_n and_o ability_n great_a their_o remedy_n and_o censure_n more_o solemn_a and_o more_o in_o number_n as_o deposition_n suspension_n etc._n etc._n all_o which_o be_v want_v in_o the_o church_n way_n as_o i_o can_v show_v at_o large_a but_o that_o this_o answer_n will_v be_v too_o great_a a_o volume_n but_o to_o come_v to_o particular_n the_o presbyterian_a be_v more_o effectual_a than_o your_o independent_a way_n 1._o because_o it_o do_v prevent_v and_o preserve_v from_o those_o many_o error_n division_n evil_n which_o fall_v in_o your_o way_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o experience_n and_o be_v found_v upon_o good_a reason_n will_v fall_v out_o now_o how_o much_o better_a and_o more_o effectual_a a_o way_n it_o be_v to_o play_v the_o foregame_n than_o the_o aftergame_n all_o man_n know_v it_o be_v better_a to_o prevent_v the_o plague_n and_o take_n in_o poison_n then_o to_o expel_v it_o government_n be_v for_o prevention_n as_o well_o as_o recover_v if_o your_o way_n be_v as_o effectual_a to_o compose_v difference_n and_o reduce_v church_n yet_o not_o so_o to_o prevent_v which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o great_a end_n of_o church_n government_n 2._o your_o way_n wrap_v in_o whole_a church_n in_o sin_n and_o guilt_n and_o you_o have_v no_o remedy_n but_o it_o must_v come_v to_o non-communion_n of_o whole_a church_n but_o in_o presbyterial_a it_o be_v not_o so_o no_o example_n be_v extant_a among_o they_o of_o excommunicate_v whole_a church_n so_o that_o if_o a_o error_n take_v one_o or_o two_o they_o be_v present_o deal_v with_o and_o the_o error_n spread_v not_o to_o a_o whole_a church_n 3._o in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n the_o person_n offend_v and_o sin_v in_o congregation_n be_v proceed_v with_o and_o punish_v every_o man_n bear_v his_o own_o sin_n but_o the_o innocent_a person_n suffer_v not_o but_o here_o in_o the_o way_n of_o non-communion_n some_o who_o be_v good_a in_o the_o church_n suffer_v also_o many_o way_n and_o here_o be_v no_o difference_n make_v by_o you_o but_o all_o involve_a in_o the_o same_o condition_n 4._o in_o your_o way_n as_o if_o all_o sin_n be_v equal_a and_o all_o offender_n alike_o all_o be_v punish_v with_o the_o same_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n 5._o your_o submission_n and_o meeting_n be_v accidental_a uncertain_a free_a and_o at_o choice_n they_o may_v be_v and_o may_v not_o be_v there_o be_v many_o way_n to_o evade_v and_o put_v they_o off_o whereas_o the_o combination_n and_o consociation_n of_o church_n be_v fix_v set_v certain_a among_o your_o church_n in_o holland_n in_o three_o or_o four_o year_n there_o be_v but_o one_o act_n of_o submission_n and_o one_o meeting_n which_o be_v here_o relate_v in_o that_o difference_n between_o those_o two_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n there_o be_v no_o submission_n but_o each_o church_n blow_v the_o trumpet_n of_o defiance_n against_o each_o other_o and_o so_o about_o the_o difference_n at_o arnheim_n which_o the_o church_n can_v not_o end_v in_o so_o long_a a_o time_n no_o church_n interpose_v but_o in_o the_o classical_a government_n there_o be_v such_o a_o subordination_n and_o dependencie_n such_o state_v and_o fix_v meeting_n that_o if_o man_n shall_v escape_v one_o they_o do_v not_o all_o now_o in_o government_n and_o order_n there_o be_v a_o material_a difference_n between_o what_o man_n may_v do_v or_o not_o do_v and_o what_o they_o have_v tie_v themselves_o unto_o and_o must_v stand_v to_o in_o matter_n of_o civil_a difference_n refer_v to_o arbitratour_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o submit_v to_o hear_v and_o to_o counsel_v upon_o it_o and_o another_o thing_n to_o be_v bind_v to_o stand_v to_o the_o determination_n there_o be_v many_o will_v do_v just_o and_o perform_v such_o trust_n while_o bind_v who_o leave_v at_o liberty_n will_v do_v just_o nothing_o now_o in_o your_o submission_n of_o church_n though_o you_o submit_v to_o a_o hear_n yet_o you_o do_v not_o submit_v to_o their_o determination_n unless_o it_o like_v you_o you_o do_v not_o submit_v to_o do_v what_o they_o enjoin_v but_o you_o will_v order_v yourselves_o according_a to_o their_o counsel_n as_o you_o see_v occasion_n now_o man_n be_v partial_a in_o their_o own_o cause_n and_o still_o their_o own_o judge_n what_o a_o remedy_n be_v this_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n when_o man_n know_v they_o be_v at_o liberty_n and_o may_v do_v or_o not_o do_v as_o they_o see_v good_a and_o another_o
only_o and_o the_o high_a power_n can_v they_o always_o hear_v or_o attend_v unto_o through_o the_o many_o great_a business_n of_o state_n affair_n all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n that_o both_o in_o particular_a church_n and_o between_o church_n will_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n in_o this_o way_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n against_o one_o another_o especial_o in_o independent_a church_n where_o people_n make_v church_n and_o minister_n in_o that_o way_n they_o do_v and_o have_v no_o fix_a rule_n nor_o certain_a way_n i_o warrant_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o high_a power_n king_n and_o parliament_n shall_v have_v something_o to_o do_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o to_o hear_v all_o cause_n and_o difference_n but_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o inferior_n also_o major_n bailiff_n etc._n etc._n i_o represent_v it_o to_o you_o what_o fit_a judge_n most_o of_o they_o be_v to_o judge_v and_o determine_v of_o such_o difficult_a ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o heresy_n schism_n scandal_n etc._n etc._n which_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o minister_n of_o church_n and_o between_o church_n themselves_o again_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o magistrate_n indefinite_o and_o absolute_o any_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_a popish_a arrian_n as_o mr_n robinson_n do_v in_o his_o apology_n and_o i_o find_v it_o in_o your_o manuscript_n and_o principle_n that_o you_o take_v it_o so_o judge_v then_o in_o yourselves_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o remedy_n among_o themselves_o how_o fit_a be_v they_o who_o understand_v not_o christian_a religion_n nor_o the_o doctrine_n according_a to_o godliness_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o great_a difference_n between_o church_n and_o to_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n if_o the_o apostle_n paul_n reprove_v the_o corinthian_n so_o in_o 1_o cor._n 6_o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7._o for_o cariy_a matter_n from_o the_o church_n even_o the_o small_a matter_n the_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o this_o life_n unto_o unbeliever_n how_o will_v he_o blame_v the_o carry_n of_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a unto_o heathen_a from_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n or_o do_v you_o understand_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n to_o appeal_v unto_o etc._n etc._n then_o there_o must_v be_v certain_a law_n and_o rule_n agree_v upon_o as_o for_o particular_a church_n so_o between_o the_o church_n according_a to_o which_o they_o must_v proceed_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n etc._n etc._n which_o yet_o you_o practise_v not_o now_o the_o many_o inconvenience_n that_o will_v come_v of_o such_o court_v you_o may_v easy_o foresee_v so_o that_o this_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v a_o effectual_a remedy_n 6._o what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o case_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n at_o all_o to_o take_v any_o notice_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n but_o leave_v church_n to_o themselves_o in_o that_o as_o it_o be_v with_o you_o in_o holland_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n meddle_v with_o the_o government_n and_o order_n of_o your_o church_n nor_o none_o to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o or_o to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n you_o be_v in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v you_o what_o shall_v in_o this_o case_n supply_v the_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o of_o a_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n have_v not_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n provide_v remedy_n in_o the_o church_n for_o all_o the_o internal_a necessity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o constitute_v it_o a_o perfect_a body_n within_o itself_o 7._o whether_o can_v it_o be_v rational_o and_o probable_o think_v that_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n the_o have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n though_o orthodox_n and_o the_o submit_v to_o his_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n with_o his_o back_n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o case_n of_o sin_n error_n difference_n that_o arise_v in_o church_n shall_v be_v as_o effectual_a and_o sufficient_a a_o remedy_n as_o the_o way_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v their_o authority_n and_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n will_v be_v as_o good_a as_o the_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a government_n in_o all_o the_o subordination_n and_o proceed_n of_o it_o now_o that_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a it_o shall_v be_v or_o that_o it_o shall_v serve_v in_o stead_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n take_v these_o probable_a and_o rational_a ground_n 1._o all_o wanton_a wit_n and_o erroneous_a spirit_n all_o your_o sectary_n and_o novelist_n be_v rather_o for_o this_o way_n then_o for_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o most_o of_o they_o will_v have_v neither_o to_o meddle_v at_o all_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o the_o socinian_o anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n thus_o the_o arminian_n be_v against_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o all_o for_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n and_o it_o be_v their_o chief_a engine_n by_o which_o in_o those_o sad_a day_n of_o the_o netherlands_o they_o increase_v their_o party_n and_o come_v to_o such_o a_o height_n sectary_n hope_v that_o if_o they_o can_v decline_v the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o shall_v wat_fw-mi by_o flattery_n and_o what_o by_o delay_n through_o other_o great_a business_n of_o state_n and_o what_o by_o sophism_n and_o fallacy_n and_o what_o from_o principle_n of_o policy_n in_o many_o statesman_n and_o what_o by_o friend_n etc._n etc._n effect_n that_o which_o they_o have_v no_o hope_n at_o all_o by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o know_v the_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v able_a to_o discover_v their_o fallacy_n answer_v their_o argument_n will_v mind_v those_o business_n whole_o be_v not_o to_o be_v wrought_v upon_o by_o state_n principle_n etc._n etc._n now_o if_o in_o experience_n and_o reason_n this_o way_n be_v as_o powerful_a to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n from_o schism_n and_o heresy_n they_o will_v never_o be_v so_o much_o for_o this_o way_n rather_o than_o presbytery_n 2._o natural_a reason_n dictate_v that_o they_o be_v best_a able_a and_o fit_a to_o judge_v and_o resolve_v of_o thing_n who_o do_v above_o other_o give_v themselves_o to_o the_o study_n and_o profession_n of_o those_o thing_n as_o physician_n can_v best_o judge_v of_o wholesome_a meat_n and_o disease_n and_o lawyer_n of_o the_o law_n and_o difference_n arise_v in_o they_o a_o counsel_n of_o war_n of_o difficult_a case_n and_o point_n in_o war_n and_o therefore_o in_o thing_n that_o belong_v to_o the_o spiritual_a good_a of_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o church_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n be_v most_o likely_a to_o resolve_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n can_v it_o ordinary_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n in_o matter_n of_o schism_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o worthiness_n and_o ability_n of_o minister_n and_o in_o many_o case_n that_o arise_v be_v able_a to_o judge_v and_o determine_v matter_n as_o the_o minister_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o those_o who_o have_v most_o time_n and_o leisure_n to_o attend_v a_o work_n and_o business_n to_o sift_v into_o it_o to_o hear_v all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v and_o can_v mind_v it_o they_o be_v able_a and_o understand_a be_v likely_a to_o determine_v best_a and_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o good_a end_n we_o see_v in_o experience_n that_o able_a and_o honest_a man_n through_o multitude_n of_o business_n delay_v long_o slubber_v over_o business_n and_o can_v do_v thing_n so_o effectual_o as_o they_o ought_v and_o seldom_o prove_v good_a arbitratour_n in_o difficult_a intricate_a case_n now_o magistrate_n through_o many_o great_a and_o necessary_a business_n of_o state_n have_v large_a dominion_n can_v so_o well_o attend_v as_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n to_o hear_v and_o examine_v all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n etc._n etc._n that_o do_v and_o may_v arise_v both_o in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n especial_o as_o will_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n and_o particular_o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n non-communion_n and_o mutual_a protestation_n but_o matter_n will_v be_v delay_v and_o neglect_v or_o escape_v whole_o or_o be_v huddle_v up_o 4._o to_o these_o i_o may_v add_v as_o follow_v that_o the_o magistrate_n through_o his_o just_a greatness_n will_v not_o know_v the_o spirit_n and_o disposition_n of_o minister_n &_o people_n nor_o of_o other_o matter_n so_o well_o as_o the_o minister_n who_o live_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o one_o another_o frequent_o neither_o will_v there_o be_v that_o easiness_n of_o access_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o great_a person_n as_o
to_o their_o minister_n and_o pastor_n with_o other_o such_o like_a 8._o but_o in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n and_o difference_n upon_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v his_o power_n what_o be_v it_o you_o will_v submit_v unto_o and_o what_o will_v you_o allow_v he_o to_o do_v and_o what_o be_v that_o power_n you_o will_v give_v he_o in_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n upon_o his_o judgement_n of_o the_o cause_n and_o how_o far_o and_o in_o what_o will_v you_o obey_v he_o that_o so_o we_o may_v understand_v how_o this_o civil_a power_n be_v intend_v by_o you_o for_o a_o remedy_n and_o help_v in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n for_o instance_n will_v you_o submit_v not_o to_o gather_v church_n nor_o set_v up_o assembly_n withoâ—…â—…is_o leave_v and_o upon_o complaint_n of_o the_o many_o mischief_n and_o difference_n occasion_v thereupon_o will_v you_o upon_o his_o hear_v both_o side_n and_o judge_v that_o those_o who_o be_v gather_v shall_v be_v dissolve_v dissolve_v they_o and_o not_o meet_v in_o those_o way_n any_o more_o will_v you_o upon_o some_o member_n complain_v to_o the_o magistrate_n of_o some_o minister_n or_o minister_n in_o their_o church_n for_o preach_v erroneous_a and_o unprofitable_a doctrine_n mere_a novelty_n subtlety_n and_o the_o magistrate_n upon_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n judge_v that_o he_o shall_v preach_v no_o more_o will_v the_o minister_n forbear_v upon_o it_o or_o the_o church_n to_o hear_v he_o in_o case_n the_o minister_n will_v not_o yield_v will_v the_o church_n now_o go_v choose_v a_o new_a and_o orthodox_n minister_n upon_o it_o or_o in_o case_n a_o member_n or_o more_o be_v unjust_o excommunicate_v and_o they_o complain_v to_o the_o magistrate_n who_o call_v the_o church_n to_o account_v and_o hear_v both_o side_n shall_v judge_v on_o the_o complaiants_n side_n and_o now_o order_v the_o church_n to_o absolve_v he_o and_o order_v they_o to_o confess_v their_o sin_n public_o and_o appoint_v they_o to_o keep_v a_o day_n of_o humiliation_n for_o it_o and_o order_v they_o to_o give_v he_o such_o a_o sum_n of_o money_n for_o the_o wrong_n trouble_n and_o loss_n of_o his_o time_n in_o follow_v the_o business_n against_o they_o will_v the_o church_n now_o submit_v to_o do_v all_o this_o yea_o or_o no_o what_o say_v you_o to_o these_o and_o the_o like_a case_n now_o i_o ask_v you_o this_o in_o the_o close_a because_o you_o pretend_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o submission_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v he_o much_o power_n which_o though_o you_o do_v grant_v yet_o for_o the_o many_o reason_n and_o ground_n already_o specify_v this_o will_v not_o countervail_v the_o way_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o their_o spiritual_a censure_n by_o presbyter_n and_o synod_n whether_o you_o clear_o and_o plain_o allow_v this_o to_o the_o magistrate_n because_o i_o find_v in_o manuscript_n and_o hear_v that_o in_o sermon_n by_o man_n of_o your_o churchway_n the_o contrary_a be_v public_o preach_v and_o hold_v as_o for_o example_n in_o that_o treatise_n about_o a_o church_n which_o go_v under_o one_o of_o your_o name_n there_o be_v this_o passage_n with_o more_o to_o that_o purpose_n the_o saint_n need_v not_o expect_v their_o power_n or_o leave_v for_o to_o gather_v together_o so_o as_o without_o it_o such_o a_o combination_n be_v unlawful_a nor_o shall_v they_o forbear_v it_o out_o of_o conscience_n of_o the_o magistrate_n prohibition_n indeed_o if_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v force_v or_o compel_v they_o to_o forbear_v or_o persecute_v they_o they_o may_v forbear_v actual_a assemble_v act._n 8._o 1._o not_o because_o the_o magistrate_n forbid_v it_o but_o in_o mercy_n to_o themselves_o and_o indeed_o about_o a_o church_n christian_n magistrate_n have_v no_o more_o power_n then_o heathen_a magistrate_n have_v so_o that_o this_o be_v speak_v by_o you_o where_o magistrate_n be_v christian_n and_o where_o church_n be_v already_o settle_v and_o add_v to_o this_o that_o m._n s._n in_o his_o reply_n in_o defence_n of_o your_o apology_n be_v against_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o that_o you_o all_o hold_v a_o toleration_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n ought_v not_o to_o hinder_v man_n or_o punish_v they_o for_o the_o matter_n of_o their_o conscience_n how_o then_o notwithstanding_o all_o your_o discourse_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n which_o add_v to_o non-communion_n will_v be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n to_o relieve_v person_n injure_v to_o reduce_v church_n and_o person_n go_v in_o schism_n and_o error_n shall_v person_n injure_v be_v remedy_v or_o church_n and_o person_n reduce_v for_o suppose_v the_o person_n or_o church_n that_o now_o fall_v into_o such_o error_n and_o schism_n will_v pretend_v nay_o it_o be_v so_o real_o that_o they_o in_o their_o conscience_n hold_v error_n for_o truth_n and_o thereupon_o withdraw_v from_o such_o church_n to_o other_o nay_o suppose_v those_o who_o now_o receive_v these_o new_a truth_n shall_v cast_v out_o of_o their_o fellowship_n and_o excommunicate_v some_o for_o hold_v otherwise_o as_o for_o instance_n a_o church_n fall_v into_o antinomianisme_n shall_v censure_v some_o of_o their_o member_n that_o remain_v orthodox_n for_o legal_a christian_n and_o for_o be_v enemy_n to_o freegrace_n and_o shall_v judge_v themselves_o bind_v to_o do_v so_o in_o these_o and_o such_o like_a case_n what_o remedy_n be_v there_o for_o miscarry_v church_n by_o all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n you_o pretend_v to_o give_v to_o he_o but_o this_o be_v bring_v in_o here_o by_o you_o and_o give_v to_o he_o to_o put_v of_o that_o strong_a argument_n against_o your_o way_n and_o that_o you_o may_v have_v something_o for_o present_a to_o blind_v the_o eye_n and_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o many_o that_o look_v no_o further_o that_o it_o may_v serve_v your_o turn_n at_o such_o a_o straight_o whereas_o upon_o other_o principle_n you_o deny_v the_o magistrate_n this_o when_o it_o shall_v come_v to_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o conscience_n and_o now_o by_o all_o the_o several_a particular_n under_o this_o five_o head_n the_o understand_a reader_n may_v observe_v that_o not_o only_o in_o many_o respect_v your_o non-communion_n and_o magistrate_n power_n be_v not_o a_o remedy_n comparable_a to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n not_o proper_a nor_o to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o offence_n and_o thing_n in_o question_n a_o way_n in_o stead_n of_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o end_n redress_v and_o mend_v matter_n amiss_o that_o will_v be_v but_o the_o begin_n of_o more_o strife_n and_o make_v more_o difference_n and_o evil_n then_o either_o it_o sinde_n or_o can_v heal_v the_o mother_n and_o nurse_n of_o confusion_n disorder_n and_o endless_a contention_n but_o also_o that_o all_o the_o power_n here_o pretend_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n upon_o examination_n be_v no_o such_o matter_n nor_o will_v not_o amount_v to_o make_v good_a the_o end_n propound_v whereas_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n here_o scandalize_v as_o either_o whole_o inconsistent_a with_o this_o form_n of_o civil_a government_n or_o else_o not_o give_v it_o its_o due_a will_v be_v find_v by_o its_o principle_n not_o only_o to_o have_v powerful_a spiritual_a remedy_n for_o all_o spiritual_a evil_n of_o the_o church_n but_o will_v be_v find_v in_o many_o respect_n to_o make_v use_n of_o and_o to_o give_v honour_n and_o power_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n as_o a_o nurse_n father_n from_o first_o to_o last_o even_o in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n of_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n beyond_o you_o beside_o what_o they_o give_v more_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n in_o a_o church_n miserable_o corrupt_v disorder_a etc._n etc._n of_o which_o the_o reader_n may_v read_v at_o large_a in_o apollonius_n who_o be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a cap._n 2._o and_o so_o learned_a 83._o zanchius_n in_o his_o tractate_n de_fw-fr magistratis_n show_v it_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n not_o to_o suffer_v heretic_n nor_o erroneous_a person_n to_o preach_v and_o he_o give_v he_o coactive_a punitive_a power_n to_o cut_v they_o off_o beza_n a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o his_o epistle_n and_o other_o write_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n do_v not_o exclude_v the_o magistrate_n but_o give_v he_o that_o power_n in_o some_o thing_n which_o you_o deny_v but_o beside_o that_o power_n they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n they_o stand_v for_o as_o needful_a in_o the_o church_n class_n and_o synod_n for_o the_o government_n of_o it_o zanchy_a show_v that_o discipline_n can_v 713._o take_v place_n where_o the_o minister_n never_o meet_v together_o the_o meâ—…ting_n of_o minister_n and_o ecclesiastical_a synod_n we_o judge_v most_o necessary_a as_o no_o polity_n commonwealth_n or_o kingdom_n can_v consist_v without_o their_o meeting_n senate_n and_o counsel_n
so_o there_o be_v need_n of_o synod_n for_o the_o govern_n of_o the_o church_n and_o for_o the_o prevent_n of_o herâ—…fies_v in_o a_o word_n all_o thing_n be_v loose_a in_o independent_a government_n every_o one_o be_v leave_v and_o may_v take_v liberty_n without_o control_n to_o do_v what_o be_v good_a in_o their_o own_o eye_n if_o they_o like_v not_o any_o church_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n they_o may_v go_v to_o another_o nay_o a_o few_o in_o a_o church_n dislike_a that_o church_n may_v go_v make_v a_o church_n themselves_o and_o make_v minister_n and_o hold_v what_o they_o will_v as_o mr_n sympson_n do_v with_o some_o few_o more_o and_o since_o some_o have_v rend_v from_o mr_n sympson_n church_n as_o he_o from_o mr_n bridge_n the_o rule_v they_o go_v by_o be_v loose_a nothing_o be_v fix_v nor_o certain_a among_o they_o and_o there_o can_v be_v no_o settledness_n of_o mind_n nor_o consistence_n of_o principle_n in_o that_o way_n simple_a and_o well_o mean_v people_n according_a to_o their_o principle_n must_v be_v draw_v till_o they_o come_v to_o that_o to_o hold_v that_o there_o be_v no_o true_a church_n nor_o minister_n at_o all_o yet_o upon_o the_o earth_n which_o principle_n begin_v to_o take_v and_o spread_v already_o among_o many_o independent_o in_o a_o word_n that_o liberty_n and_o looseness_n which_o be_v from_o first_o to_o last_o in_o independent_a government_n hold_v no_o authoritative_a ecclesiastical_a power_n out_o of_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o remedy_n or_o prevent_v any_o matter_n and_o that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n be_v on_o many_o ground_n and_o principle_n of_o they_o so_o slight_a and_o weak_a as_o the_o only_a subject_n of_o excommunication_n be_v no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n than_o may_v evident_o be_v presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n etc._n etc._n as_o that_o two_o or_o three_o saint_n or_o now_o of_o late_a six_o or_o seven_o may_v withdraw_v from_o church_n defective_a and_o impure_a and_o make_v church_n and_o choose_v all_o officer_n etc._n etc._n with_o other_o like_a so_o that_o what_o need_v they_o care_v then_o for_o that_o church_n of_o which_o they_o be_v member_n though_o cast_v out_o see_v they_o can_v make_v new_a and_o have_v all_o to_o their_o own_o mind_n be_v chief_a there_o be_v a_o dangerous_a temptation_n even_o to_o sober_a man_n to_o make_v they_o presume_v to_o broach_v that_o practise_v that_o which_o else_o they_o will_v never_o have_v do_v but_o in_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n there_o be_v consistence_n unity_n and_o strength_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o a_o hundred_o year_n visible_a experience_n of_o god_n blessing_n from_o heaven_n upon_o they_o there_o be_v also_o a_o certainty_n and_o fixedness_n of_o rule_n agree_v on_o both_o for_o particular_a congregation_n for_o class_n and_o synod_n there_o be_v a_o aw_v and_o preserve_v of_o officer_n and_o people_n in_o their_o bound_n and_o keep_v they_o from_o run_v out_o to_o error_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v no_o man_n be_v he_o never_o so_o able_a or_o subtle_a that_o can_v escape_v call_v to_o account_n and_o censure_n magistrate_n and_o minister_n have_v their_o power_n in_o the_o church_n without_o usurpation_n and_o confusion_n and_o to_o conclude_v in_o the_o word_n of_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n be_v magistrate_n and_o civil_a power_n acquaint_v with_o this_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n they_o will_v find_v their_o authority_n increase_v their_o work_n more_o easy_a and_o their_o place_n more_o comfortable_a thereby_o and_o now_o have_v give_v a_o answer_n to_o that_o part_n of_o your_o apology_n under_o that_o instance_n of_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n by_o speak_v full_o of_o those_o five_o head_n unto_o which_o i_o refer_v all_o your_o discourse_n about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n begin_v in_o pag._n 12._o and_o end_v in_o the_o 21._o i_o will_v for_o a_o close_o speak_v something_o to_o some_o of_o your_o passage_n contain_v in_o this_o part_n of_o your_o narration_n which_o can_v not_o so_o well_o be_v take_v in_o nor_o so_o proper_o animadvert_v upon_o under_o those_o five_o head_n without_o the_o reader_n be_v much_o confound_v and_o entangle_v 1._o to_o that_o passage_n p._n 14._o we_o have_v for_o the_o most_o part_n of_o the_o time_n we_o be_v abroad_o three_o elder_n at_o least_o in_o each_o congregation_n who_o we_o be_v subject_a to_o i_o ask_v if_o the_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n you_o many_o time_n have_v but_o three_o and_o sometime_o but_o two_o nay_o one_o elder_a the_o government_n of_o your_o church_n then_o be_v either_o monarchical_a government_n or_o oligarchicall_a at_o best_a and_o if_o the_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n who_o be_v the_o elder_n subject_n to_o the_o elder_n than_o be_v under_o no_o subjection_n but_o if_o the_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n and_o not_o the_o elder_n to_o the_o church_n riddle_n i_o what_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o all_o those_o phrase_n the_o church_n still_o do_v so_o and_o so_o not_o the_o elder_n the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n depose_v m._n ward_n and_o not_o m._n bridge_n and_o a_o elder_a or_o two_o and_o so_o m._n nye_n and_o m._n goodwin_n the_o minister_n be_v send_v by_o the_o church_n and_o that_o church_n which_o have_v offend_v confess_v their_o sin_n and_o restore_v their_o minister_n to_o his_o place_n again_o which_o sure_o be_v not_o m._n bridge_n and_o a_o lay-elder_n or_o two_o 2._o to_o those_o passage_n of_o church_n offend_v call_v to_o a_o account_n church_n offend_v proceed_v to_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n to_o judiciarie_n charge_n and_o deposition_n of_o witness_n open_o before_o all_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n as_o can_v be_v expect_v in_o any_o court_n where_o authority_n about_o they_o enjoin_v it_o and_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v censurable_a by_o neighbour_n church_n about_o they_o i_o desire_v to_o put_v this_o disjunctive_a proposition_n either_o this_o power_n of_o call_v to_o a_o account_n examine_v depose_v witness_n censure_v they_o etc._n etc._n be_v act_n of_o rule_v and_o government_n and_o in_o the_o church_n challenge_v act_n of_o subjection_n or_o they_o be_v not_o if_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v act_n of_o rule_n and_o government_n than_o there_o be_v a_o authoritative_a power_n which_o church_n have_v out_o of_o their_o church_n and_o you_o grant_v it_o in_o such_o act_n at_o least_o though_o not_o in_o that_o of_o excommunication_n but_o whether_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o these_o that_o of_o excommunication_n will_v not_o follow_v let_v it_o be_v consider_v for_o either_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o found_v upon_o the_o common_a ground_n on_o which_o calling_n to_o account_n and_o some_o censure_n be_v or_o else_o there_o be_v some_o proper_a peculiar_a ground_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o that_o ordinance_n or_o in_o the_o scripture_n forbid_v that_o though_o allow_v other_o neither_o of_o which_o will_v be_v find_v to_o have_v a_o foundation_n in_o scripture_n and_o if_o so_o why_o then_o do_v you_o make_v all_o this_o ado_n of_o entire_a full_a complete_a power_n within_o yourselves_o and_o be_v against_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n in_o class_n and_o presbytery_n to_o do_v that_o constant_o certain_o and_o present_o upon_o scandal_n that_o fall_v out_o in_o a_o church_n which_o you_o do_v at_o best_a but_o at_o uncertainty_n and_o after_o a_o long_a time_n when_o the_o remedy_n may_v come_v too_o late_o a_o year_n or_o two_o afterward_o but_o if_o you_o answer_v these_o be_v no_o act_n of_o government_n and_o rule_n in_o this_o church_n or_o church_n but_o mere_o act_n of_o consultation_n advice_n persuasion_n and_o that_o when_o the_o church_n offend_v have_v hear_v all_o they_o only_o give_v their_o counsel_n and_o advice_n and_o commend_v it_o to_o they_o but_o it_o be_v in_o their_o liberty_n to_o do_v or_o not_o to_o do_v for_o though_o they_o submit_v to_o a_o hear_n and_o open_a trial_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o principle_n of_o submission_n yet_o they_o submit_v not_o to_o stand_v to_o the_o determination_n and_o agreement_n of_o that_o church_n or_o church_n i_o answer_v if_o you_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o the_o bare_a power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n in_o all_o this_o and_o no_o power_n of_o authoritative_a determination_n and_o decision_n this_o be_v no_o more_o nor_o you_o give_v no_o more_o to_o the_o church_n offend_v then_o to_o particular_a christian_n who_o may_v counsel_v they_o in_o such_o case_n and_o why_o then_o do_v you_o hold_v out_o such_o word_n and_o your_o practice_n of_o a_o full_a and_o
you_o may_v call_v it_o exile_n because_o you_o do_v fly_v out_o of_o your_o own_o country_n though_o none_o persecute_v you_o to_o shun_v persecution_n before_o it_o come_v as_o foresee_v possibility_n of_o danger_n yet_o you_o can_v in_o no_o sense_n be_v call_v poor_a exile_n for_o you_o be_v rich_a exile_n who_o in_o holland_n enjoy_v many_o convenience_n and_o such_o abundance_n as_o to_o be_v able_a some_o of_o you_o to_o spend_v 200_o or_o 300._o lb._n per_fw-la annum_fw-la and_o to_o do_v other_o expensive_a act_n which_o for_o present_a i_o forbear_v to_o name_n and_o i_o can_v produce_v letter_n of_o many_o conveniency_n which_o you_o enjoy_v there_o letter_n before_o quote_v by_o i_o of_o m._n archer_n speak_v so_o much_o poor_a exile_n be_v such_o who_o have_v no_o certain_a dwelling-place_n maintenance_n friend_n but_o how_o they_o can_v be_v call_v poor_a exile_n that_o enjoy_v wife_n child_n friend_n full_a and_o liberal_a maintenance_n annual_o liberty_n of_o calling_n 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in_o as_o much_o as_o lay_v in_o you_o do_v not_o you_o so_o act_v for_o your_o own_o opinion_n and_o church_n way_n that_o you_o will_v have_v hazard_v the_o kingdom_n religion_n and_o all_o rather_o than_o the_o loss_n of_o your_o independency_n which_o you_o know_v the_o scot_n be_v so_o averse_a unto_o 7._o whether_o have_v not_o some_o of_o you_o in_o conference_n with_o many_o good_a people_n and_o by_o discourse_n in_o private_a acâ—…ed_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n by_o stumble_v they_o in_o the_o point_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n and_o in_o the_o point_n of_o come_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o by_o plead_v for_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o opinion_n that_o may_v stand_v with_o save_v grace_n and_o do_v none_o of_o you_o remember_v what_o be_v answer_v you_o that_o poligâ—…mie_n may_v stand_v with_o save_v grace_n and_o must_v that_o be_v tolerate_v 8._o whether_o have_v not_o some_o of_o you_o tamper_v with_o some_o parliament_n man_n about_o delay_v the_o meeting_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o suggest_v to_o they_o doubt_n and_o fear_n about_o it_o and_o whether_o in_o the_o assembly_n have_v you_o not_o by_o all_o possible_a way_n both_o in_o oppose_v some_o order_n of_o speak_v but_o so_o many_o time_n to_o one_o point_n the_o soon_o to_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o end_n and_o by_o other_o way_n all_o that_o you_o can_v delay_v the_o proceed_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o all_o this_o out_o of_o act_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n that_o so_o your_o party_n may_v increase_v and_o your_o opinion_n spread_v before_o the_o government_n may_v be_v settle_v 9_o have_v not_o some_o of_o you_o out_o of_o act_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n endeavour_v the_o bring_n into_o the_o assembly_n since_o the_o sit_v of_o it_o some_o independent_o to_o be_v member_n of_o it_o and_o upon_o their_o be_v stop_v have_v not_o some_o of_o you_o earnest_o deal_v with_o some_o member_n of_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o that_o they_o may_v 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you_o in_o these_o controversy_n but_o suppose_v all_o you_o affirm_v of_o yourselves_o have_v be_v true_a eujus_fw-la contrarium_fw-la verum_fw-la est_fw-la as_o be_v too_o evident_a by_o what_o i_o have_v prove_v that_o you_o have_v neither_o preach_v print_v nor_o act_v personal_o for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n yet_o all_o this_o forbearance_n may_v have_v be_v not_o from_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n bring_v by_o you_o in_o this_o section_n but_o from_o other_o principle_n of_o wisdom_n and_o policy_n as_o the_o more_o to_o ingratiate_v yourselves_o with_o the_o house_n of_o parliament_n and_o to_o insinuate_v into_o their_o favour_n and_o that_o you_o may_v the_o better_o make_v such_o a_o apology_n as_o this_o and_o make_v use_n of_o it_o to_o your_o advantage_n at_o such_o a_o time_n as_o this_o and_o i_o judge_v such_o consideration_n have_v restrain_v some_o of_o you_o and_o prevail_v with_o you_o not_o to_o act_v so_o much_o as_o your_o fellow_n and_o not_o so_o open_o as_o otherwise_o you_o will_v especial_o know_v while_o you_o be_v in_o the_o tiring-house_n unseen_a the_o scene_n be_v full_a and_o the_o tragedy_n go_v on_o there_o be_v no_o want_n of_o actor_n on_o the_o open_a stage_n to_o carry_v on_o your_o church_n way_n as_o for_o instance_n mr_n w._n mr_n p._n mr_n k._n mr_n b._n dr_n h._n mr_n l._n mr_n g._n mr_n c._n mr_n b._n mr_n p._n mr_n g._n mr_n w._n mr_n w._n s._n mr_n c._n mr_n e._n mr_n c._n mr_n a._n mr_n l._n cum_fw-la multis_fw-la aliis_fw-la of_o who_o preach_n and_o act_v for_o themselves_o and_o way_n in_o gather_v of_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o of_o book_n make_v by_o some_o of_o they_o and_o print_v by_o other_o of_o they_o it_o will_v fill_v a_o book_n to_o enumerate_v particular_n and_o to_o declare_v what_o have_v be_v do_v in_o city_n country_n army_n and_o in_o all_o place_n to_o make_v and_o increase_v party_n and_o to_o occasion_n so_o great_a disturbance_n among_o all_o sort_n as_o that_o it_o will_v be_v find_v a_o hard_a work_n to_o settle_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o to_o reduce_v the_o people_n and_o i_o confess_v you_o have_v such_o choice_n of_o instrument_n and_o under-worâ—…men_a to_o work_v by_o and_o to_o build_v your_o babel_n i_o marvel_v you_o content_v not_o yourselves_o with_o only_o cast_v the_o model_n and_o give_v the_o pattern_n and_o aim_v to_o other_o but_o that_o you_o shall_v appear_v upon_o the_o work_v yourselves_o as_o oftentime_o you_o do_v to_o your_o second_o main_a part_n in_o this_o section_n the_o provocation_n you_o have_v have_v all_o sort_n of_o way_n to_o have_v preach_v print_v and_o act_v for_o yourselves_o both_o by_o the_o common_a misunderstanding_n and_o misrepresentation_n of_o your_o opinion_n and_o practice_n etc._n etc._n i_o must_v tell_v you_o i_o judge_v and_o that_o upon_o good_a ground_n never_o man_n lay_v all_o thing_n together_o consideratis_fw-la considerandis_fw-la have_v few_o provocation_n for_o consider_v you_o be_v but_o a_o few_o in_o comparison_n and_o go_v in_o a_o new_a different_a way_n from_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o the_o destructivenesse_n of_o your_o principle_n to_o reformation_n with_o the_o danger_n of_o they_o in_o draw_v away_o and_o steal_v our_o sheep_n from_o we_o and_o the_o contempt_n of_o our_o ministry_n occasion_v by_o your_o principle_n among_o all_o the_o people_n general_o of_o your_o way_n as_o also_o your_o leave_v the_o land_n in_o the_o great_a need_n notwithstanding_o all_o these_o and_o many_o more_o that_o all_o the_o godly_a minister_n of_o city_n and_o country_n shall_v carry_v themselves_o towards_o you_o with_o that_o love_n respect_n fairness_n brotherly_a kindness_n as_o they_o do_v may_v have_v provoke_v you_o indeed_o but_o in_o another_o way_n than_o you_o express_v it_o and_o for_o the_o truth_n of_o this_o i_o appeal_v to_o your_o own_o breast_n and_o to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o my_o brethren_n and_o to_o these_o follow_a demonstration_n 1._o there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o love_a respect_n and_o fair_a carriage_n towards_o you_o both_o in_o admit_v you_o into_o their_o pulpit_n and_o in_o forbear_v all_o thing_n offensive_a to_o you_o and_o your_o party_n before_o the_o sermon_n to_o gratify_v you_o 2._o there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o fair_a respect_n to_o you_o in_o admit_v you_o into_o their_o society_n and_o public_a meeting_n about_o the_o matter_n of_o reformation_n 3._o there_o be_v a_o general_a silence_n by_o the_o godly_a minister_n i_o fear_v unto_o sinful_a in_o forbear_v preach_v against_o your_o point_n and_o that_o when_o some_o of_o you_o preach_v for_o your_o way_n and_o many_o pamphlet_n be_v print_v for_o it_o 4._o the_o minister_n suffer_v some_o of_o you_o and_o no_o
godly_a protestant_a party_n and_o of_o much_o distract_n they_o and_o of_o make_v several_a interest_n whence_o have_v come_v all_o the_o rent_n and_o division_n to_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o godly_a protestant_a party_n all_o the_o â—…ets_n stopp_n and_o delay_n in_o the_o intend_a reformation_n but_o from_o you_o and_o by_o occasion_n and_o mean_n of_o you_o the_o authority_n of_o your_o name_n hold_v these_o opinion_n have_v the_o reputation_n of_o scholar_n and_o of_o excellent_a preacher_n whereby_o you_o be_v cry_v up_o of_o many_o and_o so_o much_o follow_v your_o interest_n and_o favour_n in_o too_o many_o considerable_a person_n have_v draw_v so_o much_o have_v it_o not_o be_v for_o your_o sake_n these_o rent_n and_o division_n have_v never_o come_v to_o this_o head_n there_o have_v not_o be_v that_o connivance_n nor_o such_o delay_n of_o settle_v government_n etc._n etc._n most_o of_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o way_n be_v in_o comparison_n contemptible_a both_o for_o name_n and_o gift_n and_o can_v not_o have_v do_v that_o hurt_n and_o why_o then_o in_o a_o time_n by_o your_o own_o confession_n of_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o the_o near_a union_n and_o conjunction_n and_o all_o little_a enough_o to_o effect_v that_o reformation_n intend_v and_o so_o long_o contend_v for_o against_o a_o common_a adversary_n that_o have_v both_o present_a possession_n to_o plead_v for_o itself_o power_n to_o support_v it_o and_o have_v enjoy_v a_o long_a continue_a settlement_n which_o have_v root_v it_o in_o the_o heart_n of_o man_n have_v you_o do_v so_o much_o by_o preach_v and_o act_v to_o rend_v and_o divide_v the_o godly_a protestant_n party_n there_o be_v no_o absolute_a necessity_n just_a at_o that_o time_n when_o you_o do_v preach_v and_o stir_v for_o your_o way_n for_o you_o to_o have_v do_v so_o affirmative_n though_o they_o do_v bind_v semper_fw-la yet_o not_o add_v semper_fw-la there_o be_v great_a truth_n in_o doctrine_n and_o in_o reformation_n of_o government_n which_o you_o may_v have_v preach_v on_o for_o that_o time_n but_o there_o be_v a_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o the_o near_a union_n and_o conjunction_n i_o hearty_o with_o this_o first_o reason_n and_o ground_n deep_o lay_v to_o heart_n by_o you_o and_o then_o i_o know_v you_o must_v great_o repent_v for_o what_o you_o have_v do_v in_o this_o particular_a since_o your_o return_n into_o england_n and_o have_v not_o god_n be_v and_o be_v he_o not_o the_o more_o gracious_a and_o better_a to_o we_o then_o ordinary_a your_o carriage_n and_o what_o have_v be_v by_o your_o mean_n will_v have_v spoil_v our_o reformation_n and_o have_v do_v much_o to_o keep_v the_o common_a adversary_n in_o his_o present_a possession_n and_o long_o continue_a settlement_n but_o i_o pray_v god_n humble_v you_o for_o it_o and_o forgive_v you_o and_o see_v you_o know_v and_o consider_v that_o it_o be_v the_o second_o blow_n that_o make_v the_o quarrel_n and_o that_o the_o begin_n of_o strife_n will_v have_v be_v as_o the_o break_n in_o of_o water_n why_o be_v you_o not_o content_v with_o the_o give_v of_o the_o first_o blow_n and_o the_o first_o occasion_n of_o the_o quarrel_n both_o by_o your_o former_a preach_n and_o practise_v but_o to_o add_v this_o second_o great_a blow_n the_o writing_n of_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n which_o though_o it_o be_v not_o on_o your_o part_n the_o beginning_n of_o strife_n yet_o it_o will_v prove_v as_o the_o break_n in_o of_o water_n and_o as_o the_o kindle_v of_o a_o fire_n not_o likely_a to_o be_v put_v out_o in_o haste_n 2._o and_o this_o second_v by_o the_o instant_n and_o continual_a advice_n and_o conjurement_n of_o many_o honourable_a wise_a and_o godly_a personage_n of_o both_o house_n of_o parliament_n to_o forbear_v what_o may_v any_o way_n be_v like_a to_o occasion_n or_o augment_v this_o unhappy_a difference_n they_o have_v also_o by_o their_o declaration_n to_o his_o majesty_n profess_v their_o endeavour_n and_o desire_v to_o unite_v the_o protestant_a party_n in_o this_o kingdom_n that_o agree_v in_o fundamental_a truth_n against_o popery_n and_o other_o heresy_n and_o to_o have_v that_o respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n as_o may_v prevent_v oppression_n and_o inconvenience_n which_o have_v former_o be_v i_o judge_v this_o ground_n second_v the_o former_a shall_v have_v be_v powerful_a with_o you_o to_o a_o deep_a silence_n and_o forbearance_n every_o particular_a branch_n of_o it_o speak_v strong_o to_o you_o to_o forbear_v what_o ever_o may_v any_o way_n be_v like_a to_o occasion_n or_o augment_v this_o unhappy_a difference_n nay_o almost_o every_o word_n in_o it_o â—…s_v a_o argument_n to_o command_v the_o instant_n and_o continual_a advice_n and_o conjurement_n of_o many_o honourable_a wise_a and_o godly_a personage_n of_o both_o house_n of_o parliament_n what_o may_v not_o all_o these_o have_v wrought_v and_o than_o take_v in_o also_o that_o they_o have_v by_o their_o declaration_n to_o his_o majesty_n etc._n etc._n and_o that_o they_o will_v have_v a_o respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n now_o what_o can_v you_o almost_o have_v wish_v more_o or_o what_o better_a security_n for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n a_o man_n will_v think_v all_o these_o may_v have_v command_v you_o not_o to_o have_v act_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n and_o certain_o your_o fault_n be_v the_o great_a in_o do_v contrary_a and_o you_o be_v the_o more_o inexcusable_a have_v not_o this_o second_v the_o former_a yet_o your_o knowledge_n of_o the_o first_o be_v enough_o to_o have_v take_v ingenuous_a spirit_n but_o this_o second_n the_o first_o it_o be_v too_o bad_a that_o you_o go_v contrary_a to_o the_o instant_n and_o continual_a advice_n and_o conjurement_n of_o many_o honourable_a wise_a and_o godly_a personage_n of_o both_o house_n of_o parliament_n as_o for_o those_o passage_n insert_v in_o this_o reason_n the_o parliament_n declaration_n to_o his_o majesty_n profess_v their_o endeavour_n and_o desire_v to_o unite_v the_o protestant_a party_n in_o this_o kingdom_n that_o agree_v in_o fundamental_a truth_n and_o to_o have_v that_o respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n wherein_o you_o will_v insinuate_v that_o the_o parliament_n have_v put_v you_o in_o some_o hope_n of_o a_o toleration_n and_o that_o ground_a upon_o some_o passage_n in_o their_o declaration_n have_v you_o name_v what_o declaration_n speak_v so_o i_o can_v have_v peruse_v and_o examine_v they_o and_o have_v return_v you_o a_o answer_n i_o question_v it_o not_o from_o the_o word_n and_o sense_n but_o to_o put_v it_o out_o of_o doubt_n that_o the_o parliament_n intend_v no_o toleration_n in_o such_o word_n as_o have_v respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n etc._n etc._n i_o refer_v you_o to_o the_o first_o and_o great_a remonstrance_n and_o declaration_n of_o the_o house_n of_o commons_o wherein_o they_o declare_v the_o contrary_a and_o engage_v themselves_o to_o the_o kingdom_n against_o it_o answer_v to_o that_o as_o a_o calumny_n cast_v upon_o they_o to_o traduce_v their_o proceed_n they_o infuse_v into_o 1641._o the_o people_n that_o we_o mean_v to_o abolish_v all_o church-government_n and_o leave_v every_o man_n to_o his_o own_o fancy_n for_o the_o service_n and_o worship_n of_o god_n absolve_v he_o of_o that_o obedience_n which_o he_o owe_v under_o god_n unto_o his_o majesty_n who_o we_o know_v to_o be_v entrust_v with_o the_o ecclesiastical_a law_n as_o well_o as_o with_o the_o temporal_a to_o regulate_v all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n by_o such_o rule_n of_o order_n and_o discipline_n as_o be_v establish_v by_o parliament_n which_o be_v his_o great_a council_n in_o all_o affair_n both_o in_o church_n and_o state_n and_o we_o do_v here_o declare_v that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o our_o purpose_n or_o desire_v to_o let_v loose_a the_o golden_a reins_n of_o discipline_n and_o government_n in_o the_o church_n to_o leave_v private_a person_n or_o particular_a congregation_n to_o take_v up_o what_o form_n of_o divine_a service_n they_o please_v for_o we_o hold_v it_o requisite_a that_o there_o shall_v be_v throughout_o the_o whole_a realm_n a_o conformity_n to_o that_o order_n which_o the_o law_n enjoin_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o we_o desire_v to_o unburthen_v the_o conscience_n of_o man_n of_o needless_a and_o superstitious_a ceremony_n suppress_v innovation_n and_o take_v away_o the_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n and_o the_o better_a to_o effect_v the_o intend_a reformation_n we_o desire_v there_o may_v be_v a_o general_a synod_n of_o the_o most_o grave_a pious_a learned_a and_o judicious_a divine_n of_o this_o island_n assist_v with_o some_o from_o foreign_a part_n profess_v the_o same_o religion_n with_o we_o who_o may_v consider_v of_o all_o thing_n necessary_a for_o the_o peace_n and_o good_a government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o represent_v the_o result_v of_o their_o consultation_n
issue_n and_o all_o be_v resolve_v into_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n and_o their_o power_n from_o first_o to_o last_o among_o the_o apologist_n as_o well_o as_o among_o the_o brownist_n though_o here_o it_o be_v carry_v in_o a_o fair_a way_n as_o fine_a wit_n must_v do_v and_o that_o they_o may_v have_v something_o to_o say_v wherein_o they_o be_v not_o brownist_n but_o of_o this_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v more_o in_o this_o answer_n page_n 204_o 205_o 206._o 8._o the_o presbyterial_a way_n the_o order_n and_o governmeâ—…_n of_o the_o reform_a reason_n church_n have_v be_v countenance_v from_o heaven_n and_o bless_v from_o above_o with_o the_o preservation_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o unity_n of_o religion_n against_o heresy_n and_o error_n in_o doctrine_n idolatry_n and_o corruption_n in_o worship_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o sect_n and_o â—…chisme_n it_o have_v be_v free_a of_o those_o mischief_n and_o evil_n of_o error_n and_o division_n which_o the_o independent_a church_n have_v swarm_v with_o and_o that_o through_o a_o long_a tract_n of_o time_n and_o the_o experience_n of_o almost_o a_o hundred_o year_n together_o in_o reform_a church_n where_o this_o government_n have_v be_v set_v up_o and_o have_v have_v its_o free_a way_n and_o exercise_v even_o where_o it_o have_v want_v the_o advantage_n of_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o have_v have_v many_o disadvantage_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o spirit_n and_o disposition_n of_o the_o people_n with_o many_o temptation_n to_o error_n yet_o it_o have_v in_o those_o place_n keep_v out_o error_n and_o schism_n preserve_v purity_n of_o doctrine_n and_o peace_n for_o example_n in_o the_o church_n of_o france_n it_o be_v evident_a by_o many_o year_n experience_n though_o their_o prince_n be_v popish_a and_o they_o live_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o papist_n yet_o by_o god_n blessing_n upon_o their_o government_n and_o order_n their_o church_n have_v be_v and_o be_v pure_a in_o doctrine_n few_o or_o none_o fall_v to_o popery_n arminianism_n or_o to_o sect_n and_o schâ—…smes_n and_o when_o any_o error_n do_v arise_v among_o they_o yet_o by_o mean_n of_o that_o government_n they_o be_v epiâ—…_n soon_o suppress_v and_o prevent_v from_o spread_v it_o be_v the_o observation_n of_o beza_n in_o his_o time_n of_o the_o french_a church_n though_o france_n be_v grievous_o afflict_v and_o oppress_v by_o many_o yet_o for_o that_o which_o concern_v religion_n it_o be_v free_a from_o all_o trouble_n and_o stir_v and_o yet_o notwithstanding_o there_o be_v nothing_o want_v of_o all_o those_o thing_n by_o which_o satan_n may_v easy_o draw_v and_o move_v the_o french_a to_o all_o kind_n of_o trouble_n for_o example_n a_o inbred_a natural_a lightness_n in_o that_o nation_n wit_n very_o ready_a for_o subtlety_n and_o â—…iceties_n the_o mind_n of_o the_o magistrate_n intent_n also_o upon_o it_o that_o all_o manner_n of_o way_n the_o christian_a church_n may_v destroy_v themselves_o with_o their_o inward_a dissension_n notwithstanding_o all_o this_o no_o strength_n of_o the_o adversary_n hitherto_o no_o not_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o all_o the_o tempest_n of_o war_n have_v be_v able_a to_o bear_v through_o the_o most_o strong_a buâ—…warke_n and_o wall_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n for_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n i_o have_v hear_v it_o often_o and_o that_o from_o good_a hand_n that_o during_o the_o free_a use_n and_o exercise_v of_o presbyterial_a government_n there_o never_o any_o heresy_n or_o schism_n take_v the_o three_o man_n but_o by_o mean_n of_o that_o government_n it_o have_v be_v pull_v up_o at_o first_o and_o either_o the_o particular_a person_n broach_v the_o error_n recover_v or_o however_o prevent_v before_o three_o have_v be_v infect_v with_o it_o conquiescamâ—…_n beza_n in_o his_o first_o epistle_n give_v a_o notable_a testimony_n to_o this_o government_n by_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n upon_o it_o in_o the_o city_n of_o geneva_n geneva_n be_v it_o speak_v without_o offence_n have_v rather_o escape_v then_o overcome_v all_o the_o inward_a tempest_n against_o religion_n so_o great_a as_o no_o city_n perhaps_o under_o heaven_n have_v do_v the_o like_a it_o never_o yet_o feel_v any_o difference_n nor_o contention_n of_o the_o pastor_n among_o themselves_o in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n it_o be_v free_a from_o the_o fury_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n the_o contagion_n of_o the_o libertine_n the_o blasphemy_n of_o servetian_o a_o city_n otherwise_o open_a to_o all_o stranger_n and_o comer_n and_o for_o that_o cause_n very_o fit_a and_o subject_a to_o the_o wile_n of_o satan_n but_o true_o it_o owe_v all_o this_o by_o god_n blessing_n to_o the_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n due_o and_o diligent_o observe_v which_o also_o now_o cause_v that_o all_o sort_n almost_o out_o of_o all_o nation_n under_o heaven_n there_o gather_v together_o in_o peace_n and_o in_o true_a liberty_n of_o conscience_n do_v willing_o accord_v together_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n tell_v we_o that_o this_o 3._o government_n have_v make_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n terrible_a as_o a_o army_n with_o banner_n and_o like_o a_o strong_a and_o fence_a city_n against_o which_o the_o adversary_n have_v despair_v to_o prevail_v but_o by_o make_v a_o breach_n in_o this_o wall_n and_o where_o they_o have_v gain_v ground_n or_o get_v any_o advantage_n either_o the_o wall_n have_v not_o be_v build_v or_o be_v build_v have_v be_v break_v down_o or_o not_o vigilant_o keep_v by_o the_o watchman_n but_o there_o will_v be_v object_v against_o this_o a_o passage_n late_o print_v in_o a_o book_n of_o mr_n simpson_n that_o there_o have_v be_v as_o great_a defection_n anatomisâ—…d_n both_o of_o minister_n and_o people_n unto_o error_n under_o presbyterial_a government_n as_o under_o any_o other_o as_o it_o be_v clear_a in_o the_o low-countries_n where_o so_o many_o minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n papist_n socinian_o i_o have_v instance_a in_o several_a reform_a church_n and_o show_v god_n blessing_n upon_o presbyterial_a government_n here_o be_v only_o one_o instance_n among_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n bring_v against_o it_o and_o to_o that_o i_o shall_v give_v these_o three_o answer_n though_o the_o church_n in_o the_o low-countries_n be_v presbyterial_a yet_o withal_o there_o be_v a_o toleration_n of_o other_o church_n and_o government_n there_o which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o and_o hinder_v presbyterial_a government_n a_o toleration_n will_v spoil_v any_o church_n and_o government_n if_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v settle_v and_o a_o toleration_n give_v in_o this_o land_n that_o will_v mar_v all_o so_o that_o the_o parliament_n may_v be_v please_v to_o take_v notice_n by_o this_o and_o observe_v the_o difference_n between_o those_o church_n which_o have_v no_o toleration_n as_o scotland_n geneva_n and_o the_o low-countries_n which_o grant_v a_o toleration_n the_o one_o be_v pure_a in_o doctrine_n etc._n etc._n the_o other_o make_v minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n 2_o answ._n there_o be_v another_o reason_n why_o it_o may_v so_o fall_v out_o in_o the_o low-countries_n because_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v not_o its_o free_a course_n there_o in_o synod_n but_o it_o be_v much_o disturb_v over_o it_o be_v in_o france_n geneva_n scotland_n whereas_o by_o their_o canon_n and_o constitution_n in_o the_o netherlands_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o national_n synod_n once_o in_o three_o year_n they_o have_v not_o nor_o can_v procure_v one_o in_o twenty_o year_n and_o upward_o and_o whereas_o provincial_n synod_n shall_v be_v yearly_o they_o have_v they_o in_o some_o province_n but_o once_o in_o five_o and_o seven_o year_n beside_o there_o be_v other_o disturbance_n in_o presbyterial_a government_n which_o hinder_v the_o free_a course_n of_o it_o in_o holland_n many_o encroachment_n be_v make_v upon_o the_o right_n of_o their_o church_n due_a to_o they_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o discipline_n and_o heretofore_o establish_v in_o a_o word_n that_o anabaptisticall_a and_o familisticall_a spirit_n in_o many_o and_o that_o corrupt_a spirit_n and_o principle_n in_o other_o with_o those_o principle_n of_o toleration_n do_v much_o check_n and_o stop_v presbyterial_a government_n from_o have_v its_o perfect_a work_n and_o bring_v forth_o its_o full_a effect_n the_o true_a reason_n of_o so_o many_o minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n and_o socinian_o in_o the_o low-countries_n be_v the_o want_n of_o synod_n which_o arminius_n and_o his_o follower_n always_o decline_v and_o by_o flatter_v the_o magistrate_n keep_v off_o for_o many_o year_n in_o which_o time_n so_o many_o fell_a whereas_o if_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v have_v its_o course_n and_o a_o national_n synod_n have_v be_v call_v yea_o but_o a_o provincial_n for_o the_o arminian_n to_o have_v answer_v in_o at_o first_o before_o it_o have_v so_o much_o