a_o mean_a to_o continue_v unity_n and_o order_n in_o the_o kirk_n without_o which_o it_o can_v be_v long_o keep_v they_o tell_v we_o that_o this_o be_v the_o very_a argument_n and_o language_n of_o the_o advocat_n of_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o thing_n that_o set_v up_o the_o man_n of_o sin_n to_o sit_v in_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n as_o god_n etc._n etc._n so_o pag._n 112._o arg_n 14._o they_o call_v it_o a_o tenet_n pure_o popish_a and_o antichristian_a and_o cite_v a_o sentence_n of_o duvallius_n concern_v the_o duty_n of_o a_o excommunicate_a man_n albeit_o innocent_a to_o abstain_v from_o holy_a thing_n and_o pag._n 111._o arg_n 13._o they_o urge_v the_o canon_n of_o prelate_n ordain_v non-submitters_a to_o the_o sentence_n of_o suspension_n or_o deposition_n to_o be_v excommunicate_a and_o general_o throughout_o this_o pamphlet_n they_o traduce_v it_o as_o a_o absolute_a arbitrary_a unlimited_a submission_n that_o be_v require_v and_o a_o tyrannical_a imposition_n of_o all_o which_o it_o concern_v they_o to_o see_v how_o they_o if_o they_o be_v kindly_a child_n will_v clear_v the_o doctrine_n of_o their_o mother-church_n above_o express_v but_o to_o give_v a_o more_o particular_a answer_n so_o far_o as_o be_v necessary_a at_o this_o time_n to_o these_o thing_n 1._o it_o be_v indeed_o too_o true_a and_o sad_o feel_v that_o the_o schismatical_a and_o turbulent_a carriage_n of_o such_o as_o the_o author_n of_o this_o pamphlet_n have_v give_v but_o too_o great_a advantage_n to_o all_o the_o enemy_n of_o truth_n and_o of_o presbyterial_a government_n in_o particular_a while_o popish_a seminary_n priest_n take_v advantage_n to_o persuade_v people_n to_o the_o obedience_n of_o rome_n since_o we_o can_v agree_v among_o ourselves_o while_o prelate_n and_o their_o faction_n have_v occasion_n to_o boast_v that_o short_o after_o they_o be_v out_v we_o run_v all_o into_o confusion_n and_o while_o independent_o see_v no_o such_o beauty_n unity_n and_o order_n in_o a_o national_a church_n as_o be_v give_v out_o to_o be_v under_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o while_o they_o hear_v they_o traduce_v one_o of_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n as_o corrupt_v both_o in_o the_o generality_n of_o her_o church-member_n and_o minister_n but_o that_o this_o assertion_n can_v be_v a_o stumble_n to_o any_o be_v to_o we_o incredible_a for_o 2._o if_o we_o look_v upon_o all_o government_n civil_a or_o eccelesiastical_a under_o heaven_n albeit_o there_o be_v different_a judgement_n concern_v the_o subject_n of_o the_o authority_n as_o in_o a_o state_n whether_o the_o government_n shall_v be_v democraticall_a and_o the_o auhority_n in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n or_o aristrocraticall_a in_o the_o noble_n and_o better_a part_n or_o monarchical_a in_o one_o person_n or_o mix_v and_o make_v up_o of_o two_o or_o all_o of_o these_o so_o in_o a_o church_n whether_o the_o authority_n shall_v be_v in_o a_o congregation_n or_o congregationall_a eldership_n in_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n in_o bishop_n or_o pope_n of_o rome_n yet_o all_o agree_v that_o subordination_n and_o submission_n be_v due_a to_o the_o authority_n in_o their_o person_n who_o they_o hold_v aught_o to_o be_v invest_v with_o it_o and_o particular_o as_o for_o independent_o we_o assert_v with_o mr._n rutherfurd_n peac._n plea_n pag._n 246._o that_o we_o require_v no_o other_o subjection_n than_o they_o do_v for_o they_o make_v ten_o to_o be_v subject_a to_o five_o hundred_o in_o a_o independent_a congregation_n in_o so_o much_o that_o either_o these_o ten_o must_v submit_v to_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o rest_n let_v they_o judge_v they_o never_o so_o sinful_a if_o they_o can_v persuade_v the_o rest_n to_o be_v of_o their_o mind_n or_o else_o they_o must_v resolve_v to_o be_v cast_v out_o by_o excommunication_n or_o to_o go_v out_o and_o renounce_v communion_n with_o that_o society_n and_o make_v up_o a_o church_n of_o their_o own_o but_o abide_v in_o that_o society_n the_o submission_n be_v unavoidable_a so_o mr._n george_n gillespie_n in_o the_o assert_v of_o the_o govern._n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n part_n 2._o chap._n 4._o pag._n 152_o 153._o in_o answer_n to_o that_o objection_n that_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o christian_a liberty_n and_o the_o use_n of_o the_o private_a judgement_n of_o discretion_n to_o inflict_v censure_n upon_o any_o who_o profess_v that_o after_o examination_n of_o the_o decree_n they_o can_v be_v persuade_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o same_o among_o other_o thing_n say_v this_o objection_n do_v militat_fw-la no_o less_o against_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n in_o a_o particular_a congregation_n than_o in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o they_o who_o do_v at_o all_o approve_v of_o church_n censure_v to_o be_v inflict_v upon_o the_o contemptuous_a and_o obstinate_a shall_v put_v in_o our_o mouth_n a_o answer_n to_o objection_n of_o this_o kind_n yea_o our_o writer_n against_o the_o independent_o and_o particular_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n in_o their_o answer_n to_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o dissent_v brethren_n pag._n 253_o 254_o 255._o follow_v the_o charge_n so_o home_o that_o the_o charge_n of_o tyranny_n or_o injurious_a independency_n lay_v by_o independent_o at_o the_o door_n of_o national_a assembly_n where_o there_o be_v not_o the_o remedy_n of_o a_o general_n council_n be_v most_o just_o retort_v upon_o themselves_o who_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o inflict_v the_o high_a censure_n of_o excommunication_n without_o any_o remedy_n under_o heaven_n to_o any_o grieve_a person_n it_o not_o be_v reversible_a by_o any_o on_o earth_n but_o by_o themselves_o whereas_o in_o this_o government_n after_o a_o grieve_a person_n have_v followed-up_a his_o appeal_n even_o to_o a_o national_a assembly_n there_o be_v yet_o a_o further_a possible_a help_n by_o a_o well_o constitute_v occumencal_n assembly_n if_o it_o may_v be_v have_v by_o all_o all_o which_o it_o appear_v that_o independent_o need_v not_o take_v advantage_n of_o this_o assertion_n though_o we_o and_o they_o differ_v about_o the_o subject_a invest_v with_o the_o authority_n the_o word_n subjoin_v by_o these_o reverend_n divine_n pag._n 255._o be_v worthy_a to_o be_v mark_v to_o our_o purpose_n but_o say_v they_o if_o a_o person_n conceive_v himself_o to_o be_v injure_v in_o a_o national_a assembly_n can_v obtain_v redress_n either_o from_o another_o succeed_a national_a assembly_n or_o from_o a_o superior_a assembly_n he_o must_v commit_v his_o cause_n to_o god_n as_o have_v indeed_o exoner_v his_o own_o conscience_n and_o pursue_v a_o remedy_n in_o the_o use_n of_o all_o lawful_a mean_n and_o so_o must_v he_o that_o may_v conceive_v himself_o wrong_v by_o classical_a or_o provincial_a assembly_n if_o he_o can_v have_v the_o opportunity_n of_o appeal_n further_a in_o like_a manner_n as_o he_o that_o think_v himself_o civil_o injure_v by_o the_o parliament_n or_o supreme_a power_n in_o a_o state_n and_o have_v no_o other_o way_n to_o obtain_v redress_n as_o these_o be_v expression_n beseem_v the_o piety_n wisdom_n and_o moderation_n of_o man_n of_o god_n lover_n of_o true_a order_n and_o government_n in_o christ_n house_n so_o they_o clear_o homologate_v the_o opinion_n of_o the_o worthy_a presbyterian_o in_o england_n before_o they_o and_o the_o judgement_n of_o this_o church_n express_v in_o the_o former_a article_n and_o do_v full_o evince_v that_o in_o their_o judgement_n a_o party_n though_o conceive_v himself_o injure_v and_o possible_o real_o injure_v as_o be_v suppose_v in_o his_o liberty_n of_o appeal_n as_o be_v clear_v before_o ought_v yet_o to_o submit_v to_o the_o sentence_n not_o only_o till_o his_o appeal_n be_v discuss_v but_o after_o also_o if_o his_o appeal_n be_v decide_v against_o he_o even_o as_o private_a man_n do_v submit_v to_o injury_n from_o the_o supreme_a power_n in_o a_o state_n to_o which_o purpose_n also_o we_o have_v the_o testimony_n of_o mr._n henderson_n in_o his_o government_n and_o order_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n pag._n 34_o 35._o where_n agreeable_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o ancient_a presbyterian_o he_o assert_v it_o lawful_a for_o a_o person_n wrong_v by_o a_o inferior_a assembly_n to_o seek_v relief_n of_o the_o great_a provide_v it_o be_v do_v in_o a_o humble_a and_o peaceable_a way_n so_o also_o beza_n epist_n 68_o one_o may_v appeal_v if_o he_o do_v it_o without_o tumult_n and_o public_a scandal_n 3._o as_o to_o the_o imputation_n of_o popery_n and_o prelacy_n cast_v upon_o we_o in_o this_o they_o be_v not_o ignorant_a that_o many_o before_o they_o have_v charge_v this_o on_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o have_v be_v as_o often_o answer_v have_v they_o consult_v with_o what_o our_o divine_n say_v in_o this_o matter_n and_o among_o the_o rest_n with_o mr._n rutherfurd_n in_o the_o place_n before_o cite_v peac._n plea_n pag._n 246._o concern_v the_o many_o difference_n betwixt_o our_o and_o
covenant_n or_o a_o divide_n from_o it_o although_o the_o offender_n in_o his_o conscience_n believe_v it_o to_o be_v no_o sin_n yea_o peradventure_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v a_o duty_n otherwise_o it_o have_v be_v tyranny_n over_o the_o conscience_n to_o punish_v those_o who_o kill_v the_o apostle_n because_o they_o think_v they_o be_v do_v god_n good_a service_n joh._n 16.2_o 2._o but_o see_v all_o man_n and_o even_o church-judicatories_a be_v fallible_a let_v it_o be_v suppose_v that_o a_o sentence_n be_v unjust_a and_o be_v it_o still_o remember_v that_o it_o be_v but_o suppose_v and_o not_o yield_v for_o as_o it_o can_v hardly_o be_v imagine_v that_o a_o judge_n will_v pronounce_v a_o sentence_n which_o he_o account_v unjust_a so_o we_o desire_v that_o our_o suppose_v the_o injustice_n of_o their_o sentence_n be_v understand_v without_o any_o prejudice_n to_o judicatories_n right_o in_o maintain_v the_o justice_n of_o their_o own_o sentence_n and_o let_v the_o question_n be_v of_o a_o church_n so_o constitute_v and_o sound_n and_o orthodox_n as_o be_v before_o express_v and_o of_o sentence_n such_o as_o we_o have_v qualify_v for_o the_o matter_n of_o they_o and_o we_o do_v hold_v that_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v submit_v unto_o and_o suffer_v under_o without_o counteracting_a and_o that_o the_o former_a consideration_n press_v submission_n in_o general_a do_v take_v place_n even_o in_o this_o case_n this_o we_o may_v easy_o confirm_v from_o the_o general_a practice_n of_o the_o godly_a in_o all_o age_n and_o particular_o of_o the_o nonconformist_n who_o as_o they_o put_v a_o vast_a difference_n between_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n so_o in_o their_o practice_n they_o do_v cheerful_o suffer_v under_o unjust_a sentence_n and_o do_v vindicate_v the_o aspersion_n cast_v upon_o their_o nonobedience_n by_o their_o readiness_n to_o submit_v and_o suffer_v who_o so_o will_v be_v please_v to_o peruse_v parker_n on_o the_o cross_n chap._n 4._o sect._n 12_o 14_o 15._o will_v find_v they_o be_v so_o far_o from_o own_v non-submission_n to_o these_o unjust_a sentence_n of_o bishop_n for_o their_o nonconformity_n that_o they_o do_v own_o submission_n and_o vindicate_v their_o practice_n in_o submit_v from_o the_o aspersion_n cast_v upon_o they_o for_o it_o and_o do_v encourage_v themselves_o and_o the_o church_n by_o believe_v that_o the_o loss_n of_o their_o ministry_n shall_v be_v the_o lord_n gain_v and_o the_o church_n it_o be_v the_o positive_a judgement_n of_o beza_n as_o we_o hear_v before_o from_o his_o epist_n 12._o that_o godly_a man_n in_o england_n shall_v not_o continue_v to_o preach_v against_o the_o queen_n and_o bishop_n will_v where_o he_o add_v that_o have_v in_o these_o case_n attest_v their_o own_o innocence_n and_o assay_v all_o remedy_n in_o the_o fear_n of_o the_o lord_n they_o shall_v yield_v to_o manifest_a violence_n the_o provincial_n assembly_n of_o south-holland_n meet_v at_o delft_n go_v a_o further_a length_n against_o the_o remonstrant_n act._n synod_n dordr_n pag._n 86_o 87._o where_o have_v speak_v several_a thing_n in_o answer_n to_o the_o arminian_o argument_n against_o a_o synod_n and_o their_o submission_n thereunto_o because_o the_o member_n thereof_o be_v all_o fallible_a man_n and_o have_v assert_v that_o there_o be_v ground_n of_o confidence_n that_o christ_n according_a to_o his_o promise_n will_v be_v present_a and_o direct_v a_o lawful_a synod_n gather_v together_o in_o his_o fear_n to_o judge_v in_o matter_n according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n that_o nothing_o shall_v be_v decree_v therein_o to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o his_o truth_n and_o kingdom_n they_o express_o add_v sed_fw-la fac_fw-la aliquid_fw-la ejusmodi_fw-la decretum_fw-la iri_fw-la etc._n etc._n but_o let_v it_o be_v suppose_v that_o some_o such_o thing_n be_v decree_v yet_o truth_n will_v not_o therefore_o still_o be_v keep_v at_o under_o but_o will_v in_o due_a time_n break_v forth_o again_o but_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n order_n quietness_n and_o peace_n ought_v to_o be_v keep_v in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n for_o god_n be_v not_o the_o god_n of_o confusion_n or_o disorder_n but_o of_o peace_n and_o therefore_o will_v have_v all_o thing_n to_o be_v do_v in_o his_o church_n orderly_o peaceable_o and_o quiet_o now_o there_o can_v be_v no_o order_n nor_o peace_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n if_o every_o man_n be_v permit_v to_o teach_v what_o he_o will_v and_o be_v not_o oblige_v to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o his_o doctrine_n nor_o submit_v himself_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o synod_n according_a to_o the_o precept_n of_o the_o apostle_n 1_o cor._n 14.29.32_o another_o instance_n in_o stead_n of_o many_o be_v the_o judgement_n and_o practice_n of_o these_o author_n of_o the_o treatise_n former_o mention_v against_o the_o brownist_n suffer_v for_o the_o cause_n of_o nonconformity_n they_o be_v challenge_v by_o the_o brownist_n for_o go_v to_o the_o bishop_n court_n for_o stand_v and_o fall_v at_o their_o commandment_n or_o yield_v to_o their_o suspension_n and_o deprivation_n after_o they_o have_v give_v their_o reason_n for_o their_o go_v to_o these_o court_n and_o reverence_v and_o yield_v to_o their_o censure_n according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n whâ—ch_n do_v establish_v conformity_n they_o add_v pag._n 41._o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o church_n be_v not_o to_o be_v obey_v when_o it_o suâ—pendeth_v and_o deprive_v we_o for_o such_o cause_n as_o we_o in_o our_o conscience_n know_v to_o be_v insufficient_a we_o answer_v that_o it_o lie_v in_o they_o to_o depose_v that_o may_v ordain_v and_o they_o may_v shut_v that_o may_v open_v and_o that_o as_o he_o may_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n execute_v a_o ministry_n by_o the_o ordinance_n and_o call_n of_o the_o church_n who_o be_v privy_a to_o himself_o of_o some_o uâ—…fitnesse_n if_o the_o church_n will_v press_v he_o to_o it_o so_o may_v he_o who_o be_v privy_a to_o himself_o of_o no_o fault_n that_o deserve_v deprivation_n cease_v from_o the_o execution_n of_o his_o ministry_n when_o he_o be_v press_v thereunto_o by_o the_o church_n and_o if_o a_o guiltless_a person_n put_v out_o of_o his_o charge_n by_o the_o church_n authority_n may_v yet_o continue_v in_o it_o what_o proceed_n can_v there_o be_v against_o guilty_a person_n who_o in_o their_o own_o conceit_n be_v always_o guiltless_a or_o will_v at_o least_o pretend_v to_o be_v so_o see_v they_o also_o will_v be_v ready_a always_o to_o object_n against_o the_o church_n judgement_n that_o they_o be_v call_v of_o god_n and_o may_v not_o therefore_o give_v over_o the_o execution_n of_o their_o ministry_n at_o the_o will_n of_o man_n by_o which_o it_o evident_o appear_v that_o the_o judgement_n and_o practice_n of_o these_o ancient_a worthy_n and_o suffer_v presbyterian_o have_v be_v pointblank_o opposite_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o these_o new_a teacher_n and_o modeller_n of_o government_n and_o that_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o argument_n in_o this_o pamphlet_n be_v not_o unknown_a to_o they_o when_o they_o thus_o determine_v and_o practise_v as_o may_v appear_v from_o the_o very_a last_o word_n above_o cite_v and_o from_o what_o we_o have_v elsewhere_o cite_v of_o their_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n take_v from_o act._n 4.19_o 20._o but_o that_o we_o may_v make_v this_o truth_n appear_v more_o distinct_o we_o premit_fw-la these_o general_a consideration_n 1._o that_o the_o wise_a lord_n have_v be_v please_v to_o intrust_v the_o government_n of_o his_o house_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o fallible_a man_n who_o not_o only_o may_v but_o sometime_o actual_o do_v err_v 2._o that_o no_o judge_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a have_v any_o commission_n or_o authority_n from_o god_n to_o sin_n or_o enact_v a_o unjust_a sentence_n and_o that_o this_o be_v not_o to_o be_v restrict_v to_o church-judicatories_a only_o can_v be_v doubt_v by_o any_o christian_n who_o hold_v the_o magistrate_n authority_n and_o commission_n to_o be_v from_o god_n who_o do_v not_o authorise_v any_o to_o sin_n for_o as_o power_n be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n to_o edification_n and_o not_o to_o destruction_n so_o magistrate_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v a_o terror_n to_o good_a work_n but_o to_o the_o evil_a rom._n 13.3_o 3._o that_o every_o particular_a wrong_a act_n or_o act_n do_v not_o divest_v a_o judge_n of_o his_o authority_n though_o it_o be_v grant_v he_o have_v no_o commission_n or_o authority_n to_o do_v these_o act_n as_o they_o assert_v p._n 96._o praecog_n 5._o but_o he_o remain_v the_o judge_n and_o lawful_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n or_o nation_n as_o be_v clear_a in_o right_a reason_n and_o by_o scripture_n rule_n for_o if_o it_o be_v assert_v that_o a_o unjust_a sentence_n one_o or_o more_o do_v make_v void_a the_o authority_n of_o the_o judge_n this_o will_v overthrow_v all_o government_n ecclesiastical_a civil_a or_o
cast_v in_o our_o tooth_n act._n synod_n pag._n 87_o etc._n etc._n these_o and_o many_o the_o like_a passage_n record_v in_o that_o preface_n and_o reject_v and_o refute_v in_o the_o synod_n may_v show_v that_o it_o be_v not_o without_o cause_n we_o be_v suspicious_a of_o their_o way_n who_o we_o find_v to_o walk_v in_o these_o path_n which_o have_v well_o nigh_o ruin_v that_o church_n and_o who_o so_o desire_v further_a satisfaction_n in_o this_o matter_n we_o entreat_v that_o beside_o the_o preface_n they_o will_v ponder_v the_o remonstrant_n conditiones_n habendae_fw-la synodi_fw-la with_o the_o answer_n of_o the_o synod_n of_o delft_n thereunto_o and_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o foreign_a divine_n upon_o their_o declinatour_n especial_o of_o those_o of_o geneva_n all_o which_o be_v record_v in_o the_o act_n of_o that_o synod_n but_o we_o come_v to_o the_o particular_n i._o they_o vindicate_v their_o protestation_n against_o the_o two_o last_o assembly_n as_o not_o be_v destructive_a to_o the_o government_n because_o they_o profess_v the_o contrary_a in_o these_o very_a protestation_n and_o these_o protestation_n be_v only_o make_v against_o undue_a qualification_n of_o and_o prelimitation_n make_v by_o person_n assume_v the_o exercise_n of_o government_n which_o the_o duty_n they_o owe_v to_o the_o government_n and_o preservation_n thereof_o constrain_v they_o to_o testify_v against_o after_o the_o example_n of_o our_o father_n of_o old_a and_o they_o think_v it_o strange_a that_o the_o author_n of_o the_o declaration_n shall_v wrap_v up_o the_o authority_n of_o those_o two_o assembly_n and_o of_o that_o part_n of_o the_o ministerial_a church_n which_o be_v of_o their_o judgement_n in_o the_o very_o be_v of_o the_o government_n as_o if_o the_o government_n can_v not_o be_v own_v nor_o subsist_v the_o authority_n of_o these_o meeting_n be_v deny_v and_o the_o corruption_n of_o man_n discover_v and_o acknowledge_v so_o pag._n 17_o 18._o answ_n this_o will_v have_v be_v judge_v strange_a doctrine_n in_o the_o general_n assembly_n 1638._o where_o it_o be_v put_v in_o the_o sentence_n of_o several_a of_o the_o prelate_n that_o decline_v and_o protest_v against_o the_o assembly_n be_v censurable_a with_o summar_n excommunication_n and_o yet_o these_o prelate_n do_v pretend_v reason_n of_o their_o deed_n no_o less_o valid_a themselves_o be_v judge_n than_o they_o think_v their_o own_o to_o be_v in_o their_o judgement_n yea_o we_o be_v not_o forgetful_a how_o it_o be_v assert_v also_o before_o our_o difference_n by_o a_o lead_a man_n of_o that_o party_n acquaint_v with_o the_o act_n of_o this_o church_n that_o protest_v against_o a_o act_n of_o a_o general_n assembly_n or_o of_o delegate_n have_v their_o power_n do_v deserve_v the_o same_o censure_n but_o as_o to_o these_o their_o protestation_n see_v they_o do_v here_o not_o only_o endeavour_v to_o vindicate_v themselves_o as_o do_v no_o wrong_n to_o the_o government_n thereby_o but_o all_o along_o lie_v the_o corrupt_a constitution_n of_o these_o assembly_n as_o a_o crime_n to_o our_o charge_n and_o do_v pretend_v it_o as_o a_o warrant_n for_o their_o irregular_a act_n and_o a_o great_a obstruction_n to_o unity_n as_o may_v be_v see_v throughout_o the_o pamphlet_n we_o must_v once_o for_o all_o put_v they_o in_o mind_n that_o this_o matter_n have_v be_v speak_v to_o already_o the_o nullity_n of_o their_o proceed_n in_o these_o protestation_n discover_v their_o exception_n against_o these_o assembly_n again_o repeat_v in_o this_o pamphlet_n answer_v and_o the_o practice_n of_o our_o forefather_n clear_v and_o vindicate_v partly_o in_o the_o observation_n upon_o our_o difference_n and_o partly_o in_o the_o late_a representation_n which_o be_v unanswered_a to_o this_o day_n and_o therefore_o it_o do_v concern_v they_o to_o satisfy_v unbiased_a man_n with_o more_o solid_a argument_n than_o naked_a assertion_n especial_o in_o a_o matter_n of_o such_o importance_n against_o which_o so_o much_o have_v be_v argue_v and_o upon_o which_o they_o lie_v so_o much_o weight_n and_o which_o if_o it_o prove_v to_o be_v wrong_n they_o must_v undoubted_o conclude_v themselves_o among_o the_o most_o turbulent_a man_n that_o have_v live_v in_o a_o true_a reform_a church_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n till_o they_o bethink_v themselves_o of_o this_o we_o must_v tell_v they_o 1._o their_o fair_a profession_n in_o their_o protestation_n will_v not_o blind_v the_o eye_n of_o discern_a man_n to_o make_v they_o believe_v that_o they_o do_v not_o wrong_v the_o government_n thereby_o but_o have_v a_o care_n of_o the_o preservation_n thereof_o experience_n teach_v that_o worst_a of_o course_n do_v usual_o lay_v claim_n to_o fair_a of_o pretence_n and_o that_o innovator_n do_v ordinary_o intend_v the_o quite_o contrary_a to_o what_o they_o pretend_v though_o we_o shall_v be_v far_o from_o judge_v so_o of_o many_o who_o follow_v that_o course_n in_o the_o simplicity_n of_o their_o heart_n 2._o as_o to_o their_o quarrel_v that_o we_o wrap_v the_o authority_n of_o these_o meeting_n and_o the_o plurality_n of_o other_o judicatories_n which_o be_v the_o ministerial_a church_n of_o our_o judgement_n as_o themselves_o confess_v all-along_a in_o the_o very_o be_v of_o the_o government_n though_o we_o confess_v presbyterial_a government_n be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n and_o may_v be_v own_v and_o subsist_v albeit_o there_o be_v not_o a_o church_n in_o scotland_n yet_o we_o be_v sure_a it_o be_v not_o man_n respect_n to_o the_o abstract_n notion_n of_o church-government_n or_o to_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o in_o utopia_n that_o will_v prove_v they_o friend_n to_o it_o while_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n they_o oppose_v it_o as_o it_o be_v exercise_v in_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o therefore_o as_o we_o be_v far_o from_o judge_v the_o discover_n of_o man_n corruption_n to_o be_v destructive_a to_o the_o government_n provide_v the_o matter_n be_v orderly_o pursue_v and_o judicial_o make_v out_o not_o allege_v only_o so_o we_o do_v constant_o maintain_v that_o their_o reject_v of_o the_o judicatories_n of_o this_o church_n as_o not_o worthy_a of_o their_o trust_n upon_o the_o account_n of_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o plurality_n thereof_o do_v in_o effect_n overturn_v the_o government_n in_o this_o church_n and_o strike_v against_o it_o in_o all_o reform_a church_n also_o there_o be_v through_o the_o mercy_n of_o god_n general_o as_o fit_a officer_n among_o we_o as_o else_o where_o and_o as_o to_o their_o protestation_n we_o fear_v not_o to_o assert_v that_o thereby_o they_o have_v give_v the_o sad_a blow_n to_o the_o government_n of_o this_o church_n of_o any_o it_o have_v meet_v with_o since_o the_o prelate_n be_v remove_v for_o hereby_o they_o have_v open_v a_o door_n to_o all_o confusion_n and_o as_o they_o have_v strike_v at_o the_o be_v of_o two_o assembly_n so_o their_o reason_n if_o of_o any_o weight_n will_v conclude_v as_o strong_o against_o other_o before_o these_o and_o their_o example_n may_v teach_v other_o as_o well_o as_o themselves_o to_o decline_v all_o church-judicatories_a so_o often_o as_o they_o please_v 3._o we_o wonder_v how_o they_o can_v allege_v prelimitation_n of_o these_o assembly_n as_o a_o proof_n of_o their_o nullity_n suppose_v the_o charge_n be_v true_a as_o it_o have_v elsewhere_o be_v prove_v to_o be_v a_o calumny_n when_o yet_o they_o will_v admit_v of_o no_o assembly_n as_o lawful_a without_o prelimitation_n enough_o yea_o where_o we_o be_v the_o plurality_n as_o they_o express_v themselves_o pag._n 91_o 93._o and_o elsewhere_o this_o be_v indeed_o to_o give_v out_o with_o one_o measure_n and_o take-in_a with_o another_o ii_o as_o to_o the_o charge_n of_o their_o plant_v congregation_n in_o a_o disorderly_a way_n and_o counteracting_a to_o the_o determination_n of_o judicatories_n in_o that_o matter_n they_o do_v upon_o the_o matter_n confess_v the_o thing_n and_o indeed_o the_o world_n know_v they_o have_v act_v in_o a_o tumultuous_a and_o disorderly_a way_n which_o themselves_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v a_o fault_n great_a enough_o pag._n 19_o only_o they_o strive_v to_o mollify_v it_o diverse_a way_n first_o by_o give_v a_o account_n of_o the_o cause_n move_v they_o so_o to_o do_v which_o be_v at_o length_n deduce_v pag._n 19_o 20_o 21_o 22._o namely_o that_o by_o the_o public_a resolution_n and_o the_o constitution_n and_o act_n of_o the_o late_a assembly_n malignant_a man_n have_v get_v up_o their_o head_n in_o congregation_n and_o presbytery_n to_o bring-in_a other_o like_o themselves_o and_o holdout_a able_a and_o godly_a man_n all_o which_o they_o think_v may_v persuade_v they_o to_o a_o preterition_n of_o some_o thing_n otherwise_o fit_a to_o be_v observe_v in_o the_o course_n of_o formality_n and_o order_n answ_n 1._o this_o be_v indeed_o a_o very_a notable_a testimony_n they_o give_v their_o mother-church_n in_o the_o day_n of_o her_o reproach_n from_o adversary_n
prelate_n tenet_n to_o that_o effect_n and_o consequent_o do_v not_o speak_v to_o the_o case_n of_o passive_a submission_n which_o be_v the_o matter_n in_o debate_n betwixt_o we_o and_o for_o which_o we_o hope_v to_o give_v relevant_a ground_n these_o principle_n be_v all_o grant_v ii_o as_o to_o the_o person_n or_o judicatories_n to_o who_o this_o submission_n be_v due_a we_o do_v not_o urge_v subordination_n or_o submission_n to_o any_o judge_n incompetent_a or_o which_o be_v not_o ecclesiastical_a nor_o to_o any_o ecclesiastcal_a officer_n or_o judicatory_a that_o be_v not_o of_o christ_n institution_n nor_o to_o any_o corrupt_a society_n call_v themselves_o a_o church_n or_o judicatory_a of_o christ_n while_o they_o be_v a_o synagogue_n of_o satan_n stand_v in_o opposition_n to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n but_o we_o plead_v for_o subordination_n and_o submission_n in_o a_o true_a church_n and_o to_o christ_n own_o court_n and_o officer_n in_o she_o such_o as_o we_o hold_v the_o church_n of_o scotland_n now_o constitute_v to_o be_v for_o further_o clear_v their_o mistake_n in_o this_o matter_n we_o shall_v branch-out_a this_o assertion_n in_o these_o 1._o we_o plead_v not_o for_o submission_n to_o a_o incompetent_a judicatorie_a or_o a_o judicatory_a not_o ecclesiastical_a upon_o this_o account_n among_o other_o reason_n to_o be_v after_o mention_v as_o they_o may_v have_v spare_v amos_n his_o not_o submit_v to_o amaziah_n pag._n 100_o who_o be_v not_o his_o judge_n and_o the_o apostle_n not_o submit_v to_o the_o council_n at_o jerusalem_n pag._n 101._o which_o be_v no_o judge-competent_a to_o any_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n there_o be_v other_o court_v appoint_v for_o the_o government_n thereof_o as_o they_o conveen_v a_o synod_n for_o judge_v of_o doctrine_n and_o censure_v of_o offender_n act._n 15._o so_o all_o their_o instance_n of_o non-submission_n of_o church-officer_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o their_o office_n to_o civil_a authority_n in_o the_o first_o instance_n fall_v to_o the_o ground_n for_o we_o hope_v it_o be_v agree_v that_o erastianism_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o condemn_v in_o this_o church_n though_o as_o to_o this_o matter_n we_o know_v not_o what_o to_o say_v of_o the_o judgement_n of_o these_o witness_n for_o on_o the_o one_o hand_n they_o seem_v to_o magnify_v osianders_n observation_n though_o none_o of_o the_o most_o orthodox_n divine_n nor_o yet_o the_o most_o moderate_a of_o his_o party_n concern_v the_o liberty_n of_o flee_v to_o the_o magistrate_n pag._n 58_o 59_o and_o yet_o pag._n 100_o they_o put_v civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n in_o one_o class_n as_o to_o the_o matter_n of_o submission_n we_o be_v sure_a whatever_o have_v be_v their_o practice_n of_o application_n to_o the_o civil_a power_n it_o have_v not_o be_v to_o preserve_v they_o from_o persecution_n but_o that_o they_o may_v obtain_v power_n to_o persecute_v and_o if_o they_o will_v turn_v erastians_n we_o can_v say_v no_o further_o but_o the_o more_o wrong_n the_o worse_o and_o omne_fw-la schisma_fw-la parit_fw-la errorem_fw-la as_o we_o have_v too_o much_o proof_n of_o their_o many_o new_a principle_n though_o indeed_o whatever_o their_o pretence_n be_v for_o their_o own_o end_n they_o be_v know_v to_o be_v alike_o respective_a both_o of_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n and_o that_o the_o overturning_a of_o either_o or_o both_o be_v alike_o to_o they_o before_o they_o reach_v not_o their_o end_n 2._o we_o plead_v not_o for_o submission_n to_o officer_n and_o judicatory_n not_o of_o christ_n own_o institution_n such_o as_o not_o only_o pope_n but_o prelate_n who_o draw_v all_o thing_n in_o subjection_n to_o their_o cathedral_n church_n as_o be_v clear_v by_o divine_n destinguish_v betwixt_o presbyterial_a and_o episcopal_a government_n and_o synod_n and_o be_v no_o lawful_a church-officer_n so_o that_o here_o their_o argument_n conclude_v not_o take_v from_o the_o practice_n of_o minister_n not_o submit_v to_o the_o sentence_n of_o prelate_n in_o this_o church_n pag._n 55._o for_o 1_o it_o be_v not_o clear_a to_o we_o that_o they_o do_v not_o submit_v to_o the_o censure_n inflict_v we_o do_v find_v the_o contrary_a suppose_a in_o the_o write_n of_o these_o time_n both_o of_o one_o side_n and_o other_o that_o upon_o these_o sentence_n they_o be_v to_o be_v put_v out_o of_o their_o place_n as_o be_v insinuate_v in_o a_o treatise_n publish_v anno_fw-la 1620._o by_o a_o opposer_n of_o conformity_n bear_v the_o title_n of_o a_o dialogue_n betwixt_o cosmophilus_n and_o theophilus_n as_o also_o in_o mr._n struthers_n letter_n to_o the_o earl_n of_o airth_n in_o the_o year_n 1630._o print_v 1635._o it_o be_v true_a some_o of_o they_o preach_v after_o their_o sentence_n but_o it_o be_v to_o be_v remember_v that_o whatever_o be_v the_o after-strictnesse_n of_o prelate_n in_o their_o canon_n publish_v anno_fw-la 1636._o of_o which_o mention_n be_v make_v by_o these_o witness_n pag._n 111._o yet_o at_o their_o first_o deal_n with_o honest_a man_n so_o far_o as_o they_o can_v remember_v who_o suffer_v by_o they_o they_o do_v not_o depose_v they_o simpliciter_fw-la from_o the_o ministry_n but_o only_o dispose_v or_o remove_v they_o from_o their_o ministry_n at_o the_o kirk_n where_o they_o serve_v and_o from_o the_o benefice_n and_o this_o they_o all_o submit_v unto_o have_v by_o their_o protestation_n and_o declinator_n bear_v testimony_n against_o they_o as_o incompetent_a judge_n though_o they_o preach_v elsewhere_o and_o this_o be_v the_o more_o probable_a to_o we_o in_o that_o never_o any_o of_o these_o sufferer_n be_v pursue_v so_o far_o as_o we_o can_v remember_v with_o any_o censure_n by_o they_o for_o their_o preach_n after_o the_o sentence_n and_o in_o that_o when_o some_o of_o they_o be_v permit_v to_o return_v to_o their_o charge_n there_o be_v not_o any_o readmission_n of_o they_o thereunto_o which_o have_v be_v necessary_a if_o they_o have_v be_v simpliciter_fw-la depose_v but_o a_o simple_a return_v to_o their_o work_n 2._o but_o suppose_v they_o do_v not_o submit_v and_o let_v it_o be_v yield_v also_o that_o their_o non-submission_n be_v nothing_o the_o weak_a that_o the_o cause_n for_o which_o they_o be_v sentence_v be_v unjust_a as_o they_o urge_v pag._n 55_o 56._o and_o particular_o that_o they_o be_v sentence_v for_o not_o conform_v to_o popish_a innovation_n introduce_v in_o the_o church_n or_o not_o acknowledge_v prelatical_a authority_n which_o be_v far_o from_o our_o case_n as_o we_o shall_v after_o hear_v yet_o they_o lay_v the_o weight_n of_o their_o non-submission_n upon_o their_o judge_n be_v no_o officer_n appoint_v by_o christ_n to_o rule_v his_o house_n which_o some_z if_o not_o all_o of_o they_o witness_v by_o their_o declinature_n in_o the_o time_n of_o their_o be_v sentence_v for_o they_o can_v bring_v no_o instance_n of_o any_o one_o of_o they_o sentence_v by_o presbytery_n only_o and_o they_o not_o submit_v and_o however_o they_o allege_v pag._n 55._o that_o the_o prelate_n do_v sometime_o associate_v to_o themselves_o the_o ministry_n of_o those_o bound_n where_o the_o suppose_a delinquent_n serve_v that_o be_v the_o presbytery_n whereof_o he_o be_v a_o member_n which_o be_v a_o lawful_a authority_n yet_o we_o can_v learn_v that_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la they_o do_v associate_v these_o unto_o they_o in_o censure_v such_o as_o do_v not_o submit_v whatever_o be_v their_o practice_n in_o censure_v some_o other_o for_o gross_a scandal_n but_o do_v proceed_v in_o these_o in_o their_o high_a commission_n court_n nor_o do_v we_o think_v these_o witness_n believe_v they_o do_v associate_v or_o call_v these_o unto_o they_o that_o they_o may_v act_v authoritative_o with_o they_o as_o a_o presbytery_n but_o they_o do_v all_o by_o their_o own_o authority_n 3._o withal_o it_o be_v to_o be_v remark_v that_o however_o some_o minister_n do_v not_o give_v submission_n to_o the_o sentence_n of_o prelate_n in_o this_o church_n where_o prelacy_n be_v but_o in_o introduce_v and_o be_v not_o full_o settle_v to_o the_o divest_v of_o presbytery_n of_o their_o power_n yet_o the_o practice_n of_o nonconformist_n in_o england_n where_o that_o have_v be_v the_o only_a government_n from_o the_o begin_n of_o reformation_n be_v different_a where_o they_o not_o only_o submit_v to_o the_o unjust_a sentence_n of_o prelate_n yea_o of_o their_o commissary_n and_o official_o but_o be_v quarrel_v therefore_o by_o the_o brownist_n they_o write_v a_o treatise_n in_o defence_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o themselves_o since_o publish_v by_o mr._n rathband_n anno_fw-la 1644._o under_o the_o tittle_n of_o a_o most_o grave_a and_o modest_a confutation_n of_o the_o brownist_n wherein_o they_o assert_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o episcopal_a government_n the_o only_a church-government_n establish_v by_o authority_n though_o
their_o evil_a course_n though_o we_o know_v nothing_o do_v but_o the_o naked_a testimony_n of_o judicatories_n against_o they_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o repine_v iv_o as_o to_o their_o vindication_n of_o their_o endeavour_n to_o set_v up_o extrajudiciall_a committee_n of_o equal_a number_n for_o manage_v of_o the_o affair_n of_o this_o church_n to_o which_o they_o speak_v pag._n 31._o 39_o we_o can_v but_o observe_v a_o notable_a piece_n of_o nimbleness_n in_o their_o manage_n of_o this_o defence_n for_o they_o bring-in_a this_o challenge_n mention_v in_o the_o declaration_n only_o as_o it_o be_v complain_v of_o that_o the_o not_o grant_v of_o that_o overture_n of_o extrajudiciall_a committee_n of_o equal_a number_n of_o both_o judgement_n to_o be_v choose_v by_o the_o respective_a party_n be_v a_o cause_n of_o breaking-up_a the_o conference_n for_o union_n without_o mention_v that_o other_o part_n of_o the_o complaint_n that_o they_o endeavour_v and_o with_o much_o eagerness_n prosecute_v that_o design_n employ_v all_o their_o credit_n with_o all_o sort_n of_o person_n for_o that_o effect_n to_o have_v the_o same_o impose_v upon_o we_o when_o they_o be_v at_o london_n only_o they_o huddle-up_a what_o be_v say_v of_o that_o as_o a_o resume_v and_o prosecute_n that_o same_o point_n as_o if_o the_o author_n of_o the_o declaration_n be_v complain_v in_o both_o place_n of_o their_o break_n off_o the_o conference_n only_o upon_o this_o matter_n and_o so_o all-along_a they_o hold_v we_o to_o the_o article_n as_o propound_v to_o we_o only_o they_o give_v a_o hint_n of_o a_o overture_n the_o same_o for_o substance_n as_o it_o be_v propound_v to_o we_o without_o speak_v to_o what_o a_o overture_n it_o be_v and_o when_o or_o how_o given-in_a this_o be_v indeed_o a_o handsome_a or_o rather_o unhandsome_a conveyance_n or_o shift_v of_o what_o they_o have_v no_o will_n to_o meet_v with_o for_o to_o say_v no_o more_o any_o unbiased_a person_n will_v see_v a_o vast_a difference_n betwixt_o a_o desire_n to_o have_v a_o extraordinary_a overture_n take_v place_n in_o a_o church_n by_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o those_o who_o be_v concern_v and_o some_o private_a person_n endeavour_v and_o that_o after_o other_o design_n to_o the_o great_a prejudice_n if_o not_o ruin_v of_o this_o church_n have_v miscarry_v in_o their_o hand_n to_o have_v such_o thing_n impose_v upon_o the_o church_n by_o the_o civil_a power_n when_o they_o have_v no_o commission_n from_o the_o church_n for_o that_o effect_n and_o know_v it_o be_v dessent_v from_o in_o a_o former_a conference_n by_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n upon_o who_o they_o will_v have_v it_o impose_v this_o be_v a_o usurpation_n upon_o a_o church_n and_o her_o government_n which_o we_o believe_v no_o sound_a presbyterian_a will_v justify_v nor_o any_o other_o who_o be_v not_o erastians_n as_o be_v judge_v by_o godly_a presbyterian_o upon_o the_o place_n when_o these_o proposal_n be_v make_v to_o who_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n owe_v thanks_o for_o their_o testimony_n to_o the_o truth_n against_o such_o project_n but_o to_o consider_v what_o they_o say_v leave_v that_o distinction_n betwixt_o the_o essential_o and_o circumstantial_o of_o government_n pag._n 33_o 34._o to_o which_o we_o have_v speak_v before_o they_o confess_v it_o be_v a_o overture_n out_o of_o the_o common_a road_n of_o ordinary_a procedure_n pag._n 37._o and_o therefore_o they_o be_v but_o in_o petitorio_fw-la with_o it_o and_o have_v need_v to_o make_v their_o argument_n for_o persuade_v we_o to_o run_v out_o of_o the_o way_n which_o we_o believe_v to_o be_v of_o god_n very_o pungent_a and_o press_a before_o we_o can_v yield_v to_o their_o desire_n we_o conceive_v their_o discourse_n on_o this_o subject_n may_v be_v reduce_v to_o these_o head_n first_o that_o the_o decay_a and_o distemper_a estate_n of_o the_o church_n call_v for_o and_o allow_v such_o a_o overture_n otherwise_o they_o profess_v they_o will_v be_v as_o far_o from_o press_v it_o as_o any_o other_o pag._n 32_o 33._o which_o be_v upon_o the_o matter_n as_o we_o may_v hear_v more_o full_o afterward_o that_o be_v they_o once_o the_o plurality_n and_o in_o power_n they_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o let_v it_o out_o of_o their_o hand_n or_o let_v any_o such_o committee_n be_v set_v over_o they_o or_o any_o party_n presume_v to_o nominate_v a_o equal_a half_a of_o these_o committee_n this_o we_o do_v very_o easy_o believe_v but_o now_o so_o long_o as_o they_o be_v out_o and_o can_v be_v content_a of_o their_o lot_n and_o share_n in_o government_n as_o their_o number_n in_o judicatories_n allow_v all_o must_v be_v corrupt_a and_o all_o the_o judicatories_n cast_v loose_a and_o tread_v upon_o as_o unwilling_a and_o unable_a to_o do_v a_o good_a turn_n but_o to_o the_o matter_n as_o we_o know_v no_o other_o distemper_n nor_o unpeaceableness_n of_o this_o church_n but_o what_o themselves_o have_v make_v and_o continue_v and_o therefore_o may_v cure_v it_o whenever_o they_o please_v to_o weary_a of_o these_o course_n so_o for_o the_o suppose_a corruption_n thereof_o we_o have_v already_o consider_v how_o they_o have_v make_v it_o out_o only_o we_o bless_v god_n they_o will_v find_v no_o unsound_a doctrine_n or_o worship_n nor_o scandal_n in_o conversation_n approven_v in_o this_o church_n nor_o yet_o that_o this_o church_n be_v upon_o the_o decline_a hand_n since_o our_o difference_n as_o to_o the_o plant_n of_o able_a and_o honest_a minister_n and_o we_o do_v again_o assert_v that_o whatever_o corruption_n there_o be_v in_o member_n of_o this_o church_n yet_o this_o remedy_n once_o admit_v of_o turn_v the_o government_n out_o of_o the_o channel_n which_o we_o believe_v to_o be_v of_o god_n will_v be_v far_o worse_o than_o the_o disease_n and_o a_o preparative_n of_o most_o dangerous_a consequence_n whenever_o any_o party_n shall_v be_v please_v to_o make_v use_n of_o the_o same_o yea_o if_o upon_o the_o supposal_n of_o our_o corruption_n they_o infer_v the_o necessity_n of_o extrajudicial_a committee_n may_v not_o other_o gather_v much_o more_o from_o such_o premise_n be_v it_o even_o a_o separation_n from_o we_o or_o a_o prelacy_n as_o their_o committee_n be_v in_o effect_n in_o some_o honest_a hand_n to_o control_v we_o in_o our_o act_n they_o again_o inculcate_v pag._n 33._o that_o general_a assembly_n conceive_v extraordinary_a visitation_n needful_a when_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o better_a condition_n than_o now_o and_o when_o not_o a_o few_o in_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n do_v say_v it_o be_v a_o foundation_n for_o a_o imputation_n upon_o synod_n and_o presbytery_n answ_n but_o to_o repeat_v nothing_o of_o what_o have_v be_v say_v of_o the_o present_a case_n of_o this_o church_n any_o body_n with_o half_a a_o eye_n may_v see_v a_o difference_n betwixt_o a_o general_n assembly_n the_o supreme_a nationall_n church-judicatory_a their_o appoint_v their_o own_o delegate_n choose_v without_o respect_n to_o faction_n by_o plurality_n of_o suffrage_n for_o go_v about_o a_o work_n and_o this_o extrajudicial_a committee_n choose_v by_o party_n to_o do_v the_o affair_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n must_v it_o not_o be_v strange_a argue_v that_o because_o general_a assembly_n appoint_v visitation_n to_o try_v and_o censure_v therefore_o they_o shall_v conclude_v guilt_n be_v find_v on_o the_o plurality_n of_o minister_n whereas_o themselves_o have_v find_v it_o otherwise_o where_o they_o have_v power_n and_o make_v trial_n of_o man_n and_o where_o they_o make_v as_o great_a a_o clamour_n of_o the_o corruption_n of_o man_n of_o our_o judgement_n as_o now_o they_o raise_v of_o they_o in_o other_o place_n and_o therefore_o also_o either_o must_v they_o who_o be_v a_o divide_v party_n have_v matter_n try_v in_o a_o extrajudiciall_a way_n without_o order_n otherwise_o they_o will_v do_v what_o they_o can_v to_o overturn_v the_o church_n they_o retort_v pag._n 37_o 38._o that_o though_o they_o have_v not_o the_o same_o power_n the_o general_n assembly_n have_v so_o to_o do_v yet_o the_o assembly_n ground_n and_o reason_n move_v they_o to_o appoint_v these_o visitation_n do_v yet_o remain_v viz._n that_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v not_o so_o healthy_a as_o to_o do_v these_o thing_n of_o themselves_o which_o be_v much_o more_o true_a now_o when_o malignant_a man_n be_v get_v above_o hatch_n and_o sundry_a of_o they_o set_v to_o the_o helm_n answ_n but_o 1._o be_v it_o not_o great_a presumption_n to_o parallel_v visitation_n appoint_v by_o assembly_n and_o choose_v by_o themselves_o according_a to_o order_n and_o these_o committee_n choose_v by_o party_n do_v synod_n choose_v such_o visitation_n according_a to_o order_n as_o they_o do_v upon_o occasion_n within_o their_o own_o bound_n who_o will_v condemn_v it_o but_o for_o party_n to_o impose_v a_o nomination_n on_o a_o synod_n be_v another_o matter_n
2._o be_v it_o not_o as_o great_a presumption_n in_o they_o to_o judge_v that_o to_o have_v be_v the_o assembly_n move_v cause_n in_o appoint_v visitation_n which_o they_o have_v not_o given-out_a themselves_o but_o only_o of_o some_o few_o presbytery_n here_o and_o there_o especial_o in_o the_o remote_a corner_n as_o if_o they_o can_v appoint_v none_o but_o where_o their_o delegate_n must_v find_v guilt_n whether_o it_o be_v or_o not_o may_v they_o not_o well_o enough_o appoint_v visitation_n to_o try_v and_o know_v the_o estate_n of_o the_o church_n in_o several_a corner_n and_o to_o censure_v where_o they_o find_v aught_o amiss_o without_o conclude_v that_o synod_n and_o presbytery_n be_v unhealthy_a to_o do_v their_o work_n we_o can_v instruct_v they_o appoint_v place_n to_o be_v visit_v where_o our_o brethren_n themselves_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o say_v judicatory_n be_v not_o able_a nor_o willing_a either_o to_o do_v that_o work_v themselves_o yea_o their_o mention_v the_o miscarriage_n only_o of_o some_o presbytery_n as_o the_o cause_n why_o they_o appoint_v they_o to_o be_v visit_v do_v clear_o assoil_v other_o place_n appoint_v also_o to_o be_v visit_v where_o there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n as_o may_v be_v see_v from_o the_o commission_n themselves_o but_o to_o clear_v this_o matter_n a_o little_a it_o seem_v these_o witness_n have_v a_o faculty_n of_o forget_v any_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o to_o their_o purpose_n for_o other_o who_o be_v at_o the_o assembly_n 1648._o at_o which_o time_n these_o visitation_n first_o begin_v those_o of_o the_o isle_n and_o highland_n only_o except_v and_o the_o assembly_n follow_v do_v very_o well_o remember_v that_o albeit_o the_o enormity_n of_o some_o few_o presbytery_n do_v call-for_a such_o visitation_n and_o albeit_o all_o these_o commission_n be_v draw_v up_o in_o the_o general_a and_o ordinary_a form_n give_v power_n to_o try_v and_o censure_v any_o fault_n that_o shall_v be_v find_v and_o that_o in_o some_o of_o they_o in_o any_o presbytery_n within_o a_o province_n as_o well_o as_o another_o yet_o the_o assembly_n be_v move_v to_o appoint_v most_o of_o these_o visitation_n neither_o upon_o the_o account_n of_o the_o general_a corruption_n or_o averseness_n of_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o presbytery_n to_o do_v that_o work_n nor_o yet_o main_o for_o cognosce_v upon_o other_o scandal_n but_o chief_o for_o the_o trial_n and_o censure_n of_o such_o as_o have_v accession_n to_o the_o sinful_a course_n and_o defection_n of_o the_o time_n to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n wherein_o the_o judicatory_n be_v like_a to_o meet_v with_o difficulty_n from_o person_n within_o the_o several_a bound_n who_o be_v either_o actual_o carrying-on_a or_o censure_v for_o these_o course_n and_o not_o as_o yet_o reconcile_v to_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o the_o assembly_n do_v fall_v upon_o that_o way_n as_o the_o most_o effectual_a in_o that_o exigent_n for_o carrying-on_a the_o work_n notwithstanding_o these_o difficulty_n and_o do_v choose_v rather_o to_o take_v that_o matter_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o their_o own_o delegate_n than_o let_v presbytery_n wrestle_v therein_o with_o much_o disadvantage_n in_o several_a place_n which_o be_v well_o remember_v will_v commend_v much_o the_o prudence_n of_o the_o assembly_n but_o not_o at_o all_o reflect_v upon_o the_o presbytery_n 3._o we_o have_v already_o clear_v that_o there_o be_v no_o cause_n to_o assert_v that_o this_o church_n be_v in_o a_o worse_a condition_n now_o than_o when_o many_o of_o these_o be_v in_o who_o be_v now_o purge_v out_o or_o that_o there_o be_v any_o malignant_a faction_n among_o we_o except_o they_o will_v call_v they_o so_o who_o do_v oppose_v their_o irregularity_n and_o therefore_o they_o will_v first_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v a_o faction_n stand_v in_o opposition_n to_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n before_o they_o so_o often_o cast_v it_o upon_o we_o 4._o as_o we_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o maintain_v the_o language_n of_o any_o particular_a person_n against_o the_o proceed_n of_o assembly_n who_o it_o may_v be_v be_v afterward_o for_o just_a cause_n put_v to_o the_o door_n nor_o yet_o to_o believe_v all_o that_o they_o assert_v of_o this_o kind_n so_o that_o they_o dare_v not_o fasten_v this_o upon_o any_o presbytery_n or_o synod_n though_o they_o be_v please_v to_o speak_v of_o not_o a_o few_o in_o they_o be_v to_o we_o a_o proof_n that_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v not_o unwilling_a to_o have_v that_o work_n do_v as_o they_o allege_v and_o withal_o the_o carping_n of_o some_o man_n at_o the_o regular_a and_o orderly_a proceed_n of_o their_o superior_a judicatory_n who_o have_v they_o be_v in_o these_o time_n may_v have_v learn_v not_o to_o submit_v to_o they_o since_o they_o judge_v not_o their_o sentence_n just_a shall_v not_o stop_v our_o mouth_n from_o challenge_v the_o usurpation_n of_o other_o they_o tell_v we_o also_o pag._n 38_o 39_o that_o to_o avoid_v this_o overture_n they_o do_v offer_v that_o the_o commission_n and_o visitation_n of_o the_o assembly_n 1650._o may_v sit_v if_o not_o by_o authority_n derive_v from_o that_o assembly_n yet_o by_o the_o mutual_a condescendencie_n and_o approbation_n of_o presbytery_n whereby_o also_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o compose_v difference_n ans_fw-fr but_o they_o have_v before_o that_o time_n approven_v their_o own_o protestation_n and_o condemn_v two_o general_a assembly_n and_o upon_o that_o account_n sit_v in_o that_o commission_n without_o so_o much_o as_o a_o copy_n of_o their_o commission_n as_o a_o judicatory_a to_o continue_v so_o long_o as_o they_o be_v please_v to_o protest_v against_o any_o subsequent_a general_n assembly_n and_o to_o manage_v all_o the_o public_a affair_n of_o the_o church_n in_o that_o case_n it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o we_o to_o accord_v the_o overture_n of_o set_v up_o court_n who_o commission_n be_v 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at_o all_o in_o some_o synod_n where_o few_o or_o none_o of_o their_o judgement_n be_v 2._o they_o tell_v we_o that_o no_o power_n be_v desire_v to_o be_v give_v they_o but_o what_o be_v ecclesiastical_a and_o that_o they_o be_v not_o to_o proceed_v by_o any_o rule_n but_o by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o act_n of_o uncontroverted_a assembly_n where_o we_o must_v at_o all_o occasion_n lay_v by_o other_o assembly_n because_o they_o be_v please_v to_o controvert_v and_o question_v they_o answ_n but_o they_o shall_v first_o have_v clear_v to_o we_o that_o such_o a_o court_n so_o choose_v be_v a_o court_n of_o christ_n institution_n and_o that_o to_o be_v equal_o divide_v of_o different_a judgement_n and_o these_o choose_v not_o by_o the_o synod_n but_o the_o respective_a party_n be_v scripturall_a qualification_n of_o a_o church-judicatory_a 3._o they_o tell_v we_o that_o they_o desire_v not_o their_o power_n to_o be_v derive_v from_o any_o fountain_n but_o from_o the_o synod_n itself_o 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any_o ill_n that_o be_v do_v without_o need_v to_o call_v for_o a_o meeting_n of_o delegate_n from_o all_o the_o part_n of_o the_o country_n and_o wait_v their_o leisure_n to_o advise_v and_o consent_n while_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n their_o committee_n may_v put_v the_o matter_n past_o remedy_n one_o way_n or_o other_o and_o how_o can_v a_o synod_n out_o the_o ratification_n of_o their_o proceed_n to_o the_o question_n if_o the_o not_o ratification_n of_o they_o be_v not_o the_o other_o member_n of_o the_o question_n and_o if_o not_o ratification_n import_v a_o reverse_v do_v not_o the_o synod_n make_v too_o bold_a with_o their_o master_n and_o tutor_n to_o hazard_v that_o upon_o a_o question_n or_o if_o it_o import_v not_o a_o reverse_v than_o we_o must_v learn_v this_o new_a principle_n of_o government_n that_o a_o synod_n may_v not_o only_o refuse_v to_o ratify_v but_o by_o a_o judicial_a sentence_n pronounce_v the_o non-ratification_n of_o the_o determination_n of_o a_o 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and_o contention_n answ_n and_o yet_o they_o have_v not_o answer_v the_o argument_n which_o be_v propound_v in_o the_o declaration_n for_o proof_n of_o this_o viz._n that_o yoke_a of_o party_n of_o equal_a number_n together_o in_o debate_n as_o must_v be_v in_o these_o committee_n will_v rather_o widen_v a_o breach_n than_o heal_v it_o see_v they_o will_v not_o probable_o cede_fw-la to_o other_o sure_o we_o be_v we_o may_v lose_v hope_n of_o some_o of_o they_o who_o in_o our_o judicatories_n can_v by_o no_o reason_n be_v draw_v to_o quit_v the_o conclusion_n which_o they_o have_v in_o all_o appearance_n instill_v into_o they_o before_o they_o come_v in_o withal_o they_o have_v do_v well_o to_o answer_v another_o argument_n insinuate_v for_o prove_v this_o viz._n that_o their_o power_n continue_v till_o the_o present_a difference_n be_v heal_v the_o compose_v whereof_o with_o all_o future_a division_n be_v put_v in_o their_o hand_n and_o not_o at_o all_o to_o be_v meddle_v with_o by_o the_o judicatories_n be_v not_o all_o the_o judicatories_n then_o at_o their_o mercy_n to_o continue_v they_o short_a or_o long_o yea_o perpetual_o if_o they_o please_v it_o be_v true_a they_o make_v a_o alternative_a of_o another_o better_a way_n to_o be_v minister_v in_o providence_n for_o settle_v peace_n upon_o which_o their_o power_n be_v to_o expire_v but_o the_o judicatories_n be_v at_o a_o loss_n about_o that_o also_o be_v sure_a our_o brethren_n or_o their_o delegate_n have_v a_o negative_a voice_n whether_o that_o be_v a_o better_a way_n indeed_o or_o not_o and_o we_o be_v so_o much_o the_o more_o afraid_a of_o this_o better_a way_n since_o in_o case_n this_o present_a way_n shall_v not_o please_v they_o they_o give_v we_o no_o hope_n of_o recur_v to_o christ_n own_o institution_n but_o they_o will_v have_v we_o look_v for_o some_o better_a way_n to_o be_v minister_v in_o providence_n for_o settle_v peace_n which_o for_o aught_o we_o know_v may_v be_v ten_o time_n worse_o this_o also_o be_v hint_v in_o that_o short_a declaration_n with_o other_o consideration_n against_o those_o proposal_n we_o leave_v to_o other_o to_o judge_v why_o they_o lose_v it_o with_o other_o two_o above_o repeat_v in_o their_o so_o large_a answer_n to_o a_o short_a paper_n wherein_o but_o a_o few_o prejudices_fw-la of_o many_o were-mentioned_n as_o may_v be_v easy_o made-out_a by_o a_o large_a addition_n be_v it_o needful_a v._o as_o to_o our_o challenge_v of_o the_o order_n procure_v by_o some_o of_o they_o put_v the_o power_n of_o give_v testimony_n to_o intrant_n which_o be_v due_a to_o presbytery_n only_o in_o the_o hand_n of_o some_o select_a person_n of_o their_o own_o choose_n they_o say_v pag_n 61_o 62._o 1._o that_o they_o wonder_v this_o shall_v be_v mention_v see_v the_o protest_v party_n do_v not_o embrace_v nor_o make_v use_n of_o that_o order_n answ_n but_o if_o they_o do_v not_o embrace_v nor_o make_v use_n of_o it_o because_o it_o be_v prejudicial_a to_o the_o right_n of_o church-judicatories_a than_o they_o confirm_v all_o that_o be_v say_v of_o it_o viz._n that_o it_o be_v a_o endeavour_n of_o some_o of_o their_o party_n to_o enervate_v the_o power_n of_o church-judicatories_a though_o it_o please_v the_o lord_n to_o break_v that_o snare_n for_o their_o make_n use_v of_o it_o be_v not_o speak_v to_o in_o the_o declaration_n yet_o we_o must_v add_v that_o some_o will_v tell_v they_o that_o even_o those_o who_o pretend_v not_o to_o embrace_v that_o order_n yet_o deal_v with_o other_o who_o be_v for_o it_o to_o let_v they_o have_v the_o benefit_n of_o it_o in_o their_o particular_n which_o will_v hardly_o amount_v to_o a_o serious_a testimony_n and_o opposition_n 2._o they_o say_v that_o he_o who_o be_v blame_v in_o this_o matter_n do_v but_o give_v his_o advice_n in_o that_o matter_n be_v require_v and_o when_o he_o see_v the_o order_n be_v not_o accept_v he_o lay_v it_o aside_o and_o do_v not_o prosecute_v it_o any_o further_o answ_n but_o who_o authorize_v he_o or_o other_o if_o any_o other_o of_o they_o do_v join_v with_o he_o in_o it_o to_o give_v advice_n in_o matter_n concern_v the_o whole_a kirk_n without_o the_o consent_n of_o or_o commission_n from_o the_o kirk_n which_o be_v the_o crime_n lay_v of_o old_a in_o the_o prelate_n dish_n as_o a_o breach_n of_o these_o caveat_n whereby_o their_o power_n be_v at_o first_o restrain_v after_o they_o have_v creep_v into_o this_o church_n what_o warrant_n have_v he_o to_o lay_v aside_o the_o presbytery_n in_o that_o matter_n as_o not_o worthy_a to_o be_v entrust_v with_o testify_v concern_v those_o who_o they_o be_v authorize_v by_o christ_n to_o try_v and_o ordain_v and_o put_v it_o in_o the_o hand_n of_o a_o juncto_fw-la be_v it_o to_o teach_v those_o in_o power_n to_o sleight_n church-judicatories_a with_o what_o face_n can_v they_o assert_v that_o he_o think_v it_o fit_a certificate_n shall_v be_v grant_v by_o a_o select_a number_n of_o both_o judgement_n as_o if_o this_o have_v be_v a_o committee_n of_o equal_a number_n when_o the_o quite_o contrary_a be_v clear_a from_o that_o order_n for_o therein_o scotland_n be_v divide_v in_o five_o circuit_n or_o province_n and_o no_o intrant_fw-la be_v to_o have_v maintenance_n without_o the_o testimony_n of_o four_o at_o least_o of_o these_o person_n authorize_v for_o that_o effect_n in_o the_o respective_a province_n the_o matter_n be_v so_o convey_v as_o in_o no_o one_o circuit_n there_o be_v a_o competent_a number_n to_o give_v a_o certificate_n name_v of_o our_o judgement_n as_o there_o be_v of_o they_o in_o every_o one_o of_o they_o and_o only_o here_o one_o and_o there_o another_o of_o we_o add_v and_o yet_o there_o be_v a_o sufficient_a number_n of_o independent_o name_v for_o one_o of_o these_o province_n which_o contain_v so_o much_o bound_n as_o make_v
we_o love_v to_o jest_v in_o our_o speak_n of_o what_o some_o presbytery_n require_v of_o man_n of_o whatsoever_o judgement_n inquire_v if_o they_o lay_v bond_n on_o man_n of_o their_o own_o judgement_n that_o they_o shall_v not_o debate_v for_o the_o protestation_n and_o who_o give_v they_o power_n to_o lay_v bond_n on_o man_n of_o their_o own_o judgement_n see_v the_o assembly_n act_n speak_v only_o of_o man_n of_o the_o other_o judgement_n to_o which_o we_o shall_v only_o answer_v with_o silence_n see_v the_o matter_n be_v plain_a enough_o to_o themselves_o when_o they_o be_v please_v to_o come_v to_o it_o at_o last_o and_o presbytery_n may_v do_v all_o that_o have_v there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o assembly_n in_o these_o matter_n confess_v that_o indeed_o this_o be_v no_o matter_n of_o sport_n and_o if_o we_o be_v very_o merry_a we_o have_v not_o so_o much_o cause_n as_o some_o of_o our_o neighbour_n if_o we_o reckon_v by_o outward_a advantage_n 3._o they_o break_v high_a upon_o we_o that_o some_o presbytery_n shall_v impose_v silence_n upon_o man_n of_o their_o own_o judgement_n and_o yet_o we_o give_v they_o so_o ill_a example_n in_o our_o representation_n and_o declaration_n pag._n 79._o and_o what_o do_v all_o this_o amount_v to_o but_o that_o we_o will_v be_v peaceable_a but_o they_o will_v not_o let_v we_o but_o either_o we_o must_v let_v they_o run_v all_o down_o or_o say_v somewhat_o for_o our_o own_o defence_n and_o yet_o the_o scope_n of_o all_o that_o be_v say_v in_o these_o paper_n be_v to_o draw_v they_o and_o with_o they_o ourselves_o to_o lay_v by_o the_o debate_n 4._o as_o to_o what_o they_o deny_v of_o their_o activity_n for_o strengthen_v their_o party_n and_o do_v insinuate_v of_o a_o reflection_n upon_o the_o expectant_n of_o our_o judgement_n the_o particular_n be_v so_o notoure_n through_o the_o church_n both_o what_o they_o have_v do_v and_o what_o many_o of_o these_o expectant_n of_o our_o judgement_n be_v we_o shall_v rest_v confident_a that_o such_o assertion_n as_o these_o will_v gain_v they_o but_o little_a credit_n where_o the_o truth_n of_o thing_n be_v know_v 6._o they_o take_v it_o ill_a that_o any_o thing_n be_v say_v in_o behalf_n of_o the_o assembly_n proceed_v to_o censure_v any_o of_o their_o number_n which_o yet_o they_o can_v condemn_v till_o they_o make_v good_a their_o charge_n against_o these_o resolution_n and_o assembly_n and_o that_o we_o shall_v lay_v any_o weight_n upon_o their_o non-submission_n see_v we_o be_v not_o to_o thank_v that_o they_o do_v not_o submit_v they_o have_v suffer_v so_o many_o thing_n at_o our_o hand_n and_o with_o our_o connivance_n but_o it_o proceed_v only_o from_o the_o conscience_n of_o their_o own_o innocency_n and_o the_o iniquity_n and_o nullity_n of_o these_o sentence_n pag._n 80_o 81._o answ_n but_o as_o we_o be_v sure_o many_o other_o do_v not_o judge_v of_o these_o sentence_n as_o they_o do_v nor_o it_o may_v be_v will_v they_o so_o look_v upon_o they_o themselves_o when_o they_o be_v bring_v to_o think_v serious_o of_o make_v a_o account_n for_o their_o carriage_n both_o before_o and_o since_o these_o censure_n so_o it_o be_v true_a notwithstanding_o all_o they_o say_v that_o they_o have_v not_o submit_v and_o it_o be_v no_o great_a wonder_n if_o their_o not_o submit_v and_o not_o harken_v to_o term_n of_o peace_n have_v breed_v themselves_o and_o we_o both_o some_o trouble_n or_o that_o many_o in_o the_o land_n do_v look_v upon_o they_o as_o turbulent_a and_o implacable_a man_n yet_o all_o they_o can_v true_o complain_v of_o amount_v to_o no_o more_o but_o this_o that_o a_o synod_n do_v not_o to_o refuse_v to_o admit_v but_o take_v time_n to_o deliberate_v if_o they_o shall_v admit_v one_o of_o they_o for_o a_o correspondent_a see_v it_o will_v import_v their_o condemn_v of_o a_o sentence_n inflict_v by_o a_o lawful_a judicatory_a though_o his_o spirit_n can_v neither_o submit_v to_o such_o delay_n nor_o suffer_v he_o to_o go_v away_o without_o such_o a_o carriage_n towards_o a_o judicatory_a of_o christ_n as_o we_o believe_v himself_o may_v find_v cause_n to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o that_o judicatories_n of_o which_o some_o of_o they_o former_o be_v member_n can_v not_o own_v they_o as_o minister_n who_o have_v be_v depose_v by_o a_o lawful_a general_n assembly_n but_o do_v intimate_v their_o sentence_n when_o they_o find_v they_o will_v not_o hearken_v to_o term_n of_o union_n and_o that_o some_o of_o their_o congregation_n who_o can_v not_o own_v they_o for_o their_o minister_n when_o they_o can_v not_o be_v rid_v of_o they_o do_v seek_v to_o themselves_o a_o lawful_a pastor_n to_o who_o they_o may_v submit_v and_o for_o what_o have_v be_v between_o some_o of_o their_o congregation_n and_o they_o we_o believe_v their_o pursue_v of_o their_o people_n criminal_o though_o they_o be_v assoil_v in_o law_n and_o it_o be_v find_v they_o have_v pursue_v they_o unjust_o will_v speak_v who_o expose_v other_o to_o suffer_v most_o however_o all_o these_o inconvenience_n may_v easy_o be_v help_v by_o a_o union_n if_o they_o have_v not_o the_o humour_n to_o force_v themselves_o upon_o the_o conscience_n of_o minister_n and_o people_n whether_o they_o will_v or_o not_o 7._o albeit_o whatever_o may_v be_v say_v of_o these_o sentence_n we_o be_v content_a they_o shall_v be_v taken-off_a in_o such_o a_o way_n as_o may_v not_o bind_v upon_o they_o the_o acknowledgement_n of_o the_o two_o late_a assembly_n or_o of_o the_o lawfulness_n and_o justice_n of_o these_o censure_n yet_o that_o do_v not_o please_v they_o see_v the_o censure_n be_v not_o to_o be_v declare_v void_a and_o null_a which_o as_o themselves_o interpret_v the_o meaning_n pag._n 81_o and_o 82._o import_v that_o they_o shall_v be_v declare_v not_o only_o unjust_a sentence_n upon_o the_o matter_n but_o no_o real_a sentence_n as_o proceed_v from_o those_o who_o have_v no_o authority_n and_o if_o this_o be_v a_o equal_a mean_a of_o union_n without_o impose_v upon_o our_o judgement_n to_o condemn_v that_o authority_n let_v indifferent_a man_n judge_v 8._o albeit_o it_o be_v offer_v to_o they_o as_o to_o the_o act_n concern_v the_o public_a resolution_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v render_v of_o none_o effect_v as_o to_o censure_n and_o that_o they_o shall_v never_o be_v allege_v against_o they_o as_o the_o definitive_a judgement_n of_o this_o kirk_n to_o any_o effect_n and_o albeit_o it_o be_v offer_v as_o to_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o two_o late_a assembly_n that_o though_o we_o for_o a_o salvo_fw-la of_o our_o judgement_n assert_v that_o no_o unwarrantable_a prelimitation_n be_v put_v upon_o the_o election_n of_o commissioner_n to_o these_o assembly_n no_o unwarrantable_a prelimitation_n shall_v be_v put_v upon_o future_a election_n but_o that_o these_o matter_n shall_v be_v carried-on_a as_o in_o former_a assembly_n proceed_v our_o difference_n yet_o this_o do_v not_o satisfy_v they_o pag_n 82_o 83_o 84_o 85._o they_o count_v it_o insufficient_a that_o there_o be_v a_o cessation_n from_o execute_v act_n relate_v to_o censure_n till_o they_o be_v make_v void_a and_o null_a by_o the_o next_o general_n assembly_n answ_n and_o yet_o we_o know_v no_o judicatory_n far_o less_o private_a minister_n who_o have_v power_n to_o repeal_v their_o act_n but_o themselves_o they_o count_v it_o a_o mock-remedy_n that_o the_o question_n concern_v the_o public_a resolution_n be_v remit_v to_o the_o determination_n of_o a_o general_n assembly_n answ_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v the_o only_a competent_a judge_n in_o that_o matter_n but_o they_o allege_v it_o be_v a_o mock-remedy_n because_o by_o the_o act_n they_o be_v seclude_v from_o be_v member_n answ_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v express_o provide_v in_o the_o overture_n for_o union_n at_o our_o conference_n that_o none_o of_o the_o particular_n of_o our_o late_a difference_n shall_v be_v allege_v on_o either_o part_n against_o the_o sit_v of_o person_n as_o 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concern_v censure_n without_o quit_v our_o own_o judgement_n we_o may_v as_o well_o repeal_v these_o act_n that_o declare_v these_o resolution_n to_o be_v the_o definitive_a judgement_n of_o the_o kirk_n without_o alter_v our_o judgement_n concern_v the_o thing_n themselves_o answ_n but_o as_o we_o know_v no_o such_o act_n declaratory_a that_o the_o resolution_n be_v the_o definitive_a judgement_n of_o this_o kirk_n save_v only_o the_o act_n of_o assembly_n approve_v they_o as_o sound_v and_o orthodox_n so_o there_o be_v no_o such_o need_n of_o pierce_a judgement_n to_o take_v up_o a_o difference_n betwixt_o what_o we_o concede_fw-la and_o what_o we_o can_v yield_v for_o a_o ordinary_a capacity_n will_v discern_v that_o particular_a conclusion_n concern_v censure_n may_v well_o be_v repeal_v and_o declare_v of_o none_o effect_v as_o to_o execution_n without_o encroach_a upon_o man_n judgement_n concern_v the_o lawfulness_n thereof_o or_o of_o the_o authority_n establish_v the_o same_o 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to_o complain_v that_o this_o be_v no_o cause_n of_o the_o rent_n shall_v therefore_o not_o keep_v up_o the_o quarrel_n assert_v 1._o that_o for_o all_o our_o good_a word_n yet_o we_o have_v purge_v few_o these_o seven_o year_n by-gone_a answ_n but_o not_o to_o insist_v on_o what_o be_v say_v before_o how_o few_o of_o their_o own_o judgement_n they_o have_v either_o censure_v or_o so_o much_o as_o put_v to_o a_o trial_n notwithstanding_o clamour_n and_o flagrant_a scandal_n upon_o diverse_a of_o they_o and_o how_o much_o their_o division_n and_o irregularity_n obstruct_v that_o work_n in_o our_o hand_n we_o think_v the_o question_n have_v be_v not_o how_o few_o or_o how_o many_o we_o have_v remove_v but_o how_o diligent_a or_o negligent_a we_o have_v be_v since_o we_o must_v not_o put_v out_o man_n whether_o we_o find_v cause_n or_o not_o we_o say_v it_o as_o before_o the_o lord_n that_o for_o any_o thing_n we_o know_v if_o there_o have_v be_v any_o excess_n in_o this_o matter_n it_o 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do_v now_o so_o extenuate_v the_o fault_n of_o drunkenness_n swear_v etc._n etc._n as_o not_o to_o censure_v man_n for_o they_o with_o suspension_n and_o deposition_n as_o former_o unless_o the_o habit_n or_o many_o continue_a reiterated_a act_n of_o these_o thing_n can_v be_v prove_v answ_n all_o these_o quarrelling_n may_v easy_o be_v end_v by_o revive_v and_o renew_v whatsoever_o of_o these_o have_v be_v former_o agree_v on_o and_o put_v it_o to_o trial_n if_o either_o judicatories_n or_o many_o of_o our_o judgement_n whatever_o be_v the_o thought_n of_o some_o particular_a person_n which_o yet_o they_o have_v not_o made-out_a will_v not_o be_v content_a to_o engage_v to_o observe_v they_o on_o the_o term_n offer_v for_o present_v we_o answer_v 1._o that_o visitation_n have_v be_v keep_v not_o only_o by_o presbytery_n as_o be_v the_o usual_a practice_n but_o by_o some_o of_o our_o synod_n they_o deny_v not_o and_o we_o be_v ready_a to_o renew_v and_o continue_v they_o as_o either_o 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the_o church_n of_o scotland_n be_v furnish_v with_o judicatories_n worthy_a to_o be_v entrust_v with_o the_o manage_n of_o christ_n affair_n wherein_o we_o wish_v they_o will_v give_v 〈◊〉_d some_o more_o convince_a light_n that_o we_o may_v all_o quit_v it_o and_o put_v they_o in_o who_o be_v the_o honest_a man_n if_o we_o take_v their_o own_o testimony_n 11._o they_o profess_v they_o can_v accord_v to_o these_o overture_n because_o it_o be_v not_o provide_v that_o the_o plurality_n shall_v be_v lay_v aside_o in_o congregation_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o call_v of_o minister_n pag._n 90._o which_o be_v in_o effect_n to_o lay_v by_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n as_o incapable_a of_o church-priviledge_n when_o yet_o they_o be_v admit_v to_o church-ordinance_n and_o put_v they_o in_o the_o hand_n of_o some_o few_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a way_n to_o draw_v in_o to_o congregation_n of_o a_o independent_a constitution_n though_o we_o know_v independent_o themselves_o will_v not_o deny_v the_o liberty_n of_o give_v a_o call_v to_o they_o who_o be_v their_o church-member_n and_o partake_v of_o the_o ordinance_n with_o they_o for_o our_o part_n we_o offer_v and_o do_v offer_v to_o observe_v the_o act_n of_o this_o church_n in_o that_o matter_n and_o particular_o the_o act_n of_o the_o assembly_n 1649._o and_o be_v content_a to_o have_v a_o special_a respect_n to_o the_o most_o judicious_a and_o godly_a in_o that_o matter_n though_o not_o to_o prejudge_v other_o of_o their_o privilege_n 12._o they_o make_v it_o another_o obstruction_n to_o union_n that_o there_o be_v no_o remedy_n provide_v for_o put_v out_o of_o those_o minister_n expectant_n and_o schoolmaster_n who_o be_v depose_v have_v intrude_v themselves_o or_o be_v repone_v again_o since_o our_o difference_n pag._n 90_o 91._o answ_n and_o yet_o be_v all_o they_o say_v of_o they_o true_a which_o have_v be_v speak_v to_o before_o they_o be_v not_o so_o many_o as_o to_o cause_v man_n keep_v up_o a_o rent_n because_o of_o they_o and_o withal_o it_o be_v offer_v in_o the_o conference_n for_o union_n that_o since_o a_o general_n assembly_n do_v not_o meet_v a_o account_n shall_v be_v give_v of_o these_o matter_n by_o those_o who_o have_v act_v therein_o to_o correspondent_o of_o neighbour_a synod_n or_o presbytery_n respectiuè_fw-la who_o if_o they_o find_v any_o thing_n do_v amiss_o by_o these_o synod_n and_o presbytery_n they_o shall_v labour_v with_o they_o to_o rectify_v the_o same_o as_o also_o that_o we_o shall_v do_v our_o endeavour_n that_o intruder_n be_v censure_v and_o remove_v 13._o they_o complain_v also_o that_o nothing_o be_v offer_v about_o the_o way_n of_o call_v a_o general_n assembly_n the_o elect_n of_o commissioner_n thereto_o and_o handle_v of_o matter_n therein_o pag._n 91._o answ_n and_o be_v not_o here_o prelimitation_n enough_o seek_v to_o be_v upon_o a_o future_a general_n assembly_n see_v they_o be_v not_o content_a that_o we_o promise_v to_o follow_v the_o ordinary_a rule_n in_o these_o matter_n observe_v before_o our_o difference_n and_o be_v content_v it_o be_v so_o call_v by_o a_o meeting_n of_o correspondent_o as_o may_v not_o involve_v they_o in_o the_o approbation_n of_o the_o two_o last_o assembly_n the_o truth_n be_v these_o thing_n do_v just_o stumble_v we_o that_o they_o have_v raise_v such_o a_o confusion_n about_o allege_v prelimitation_n in_o the_o election_n of_o member_n of_o the_o two_o late_a assembly_n which_o in_o effect_n be_v not_o and_o yet_o will_v not_o hear_v of_o another_o assembly_n if_o god_n grant_v the_o opportunity_n without_o both_o prelimitation_n and_o preingagement_n as_o to_o the_o way_n of_o election_n and_o handle_n of_o matter_n in_o it_o 14._o they_o be_v please_v to_o allege_v further_o pag._n 91._o that_o it_o be_v a_o impediment_n to_o union_n that_o no_o mutual_a evidence_n and_o
assurance_n be_v give_v in_o matter_n concern_v our_o doctrine_n worship_n discipline_n and_o government_n and_o the_o enemy_n of_o truth_n and_o godliness_n and_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n for_o adhere_v to_o these_o article_n of_o our_o covenant_n our_o engagement_n and_o act_n of_o uncontroverted_a assembly_n relate_v thereunto_o in_o the_o literal_a and_o genuine_a sense_n and_o meaning_n thereof_o as_o they_o desire_v in_o the_o conference_n answ_n but_o if_o by_o what_o they_o foist-in_a here_o beside_o what_o be_v propound_v in_o that_o conference_n as_o they_o set_v it_o down_o pag._n 40._o they_o mean_v we_o shall_v engage_v to_o condemn_v the_o public_a resolution_n as_o contrary_a to_o our_o covenant_n engagement_n or_o act_n of_o assembly_n we_o think_v they_o will_v not_o soon_o obtain_v that_o but_o as_o to_o the_o matter_n of_o our_o adherence_n to_o the_o doctrine_n worship_n discipline_n and_o government_n of_o this_o kirk_n to_o which_o we_o be_v tie_v by_o covenant_n and_o engagement_n and_o be_v the_o thing_n require_v in_o the_o conference_n such_o satisfaction_n have_v be_v offer_v therein_o in_o the_o conference_n according_a to_o their_o explication_n of_o their_o own_o desire_n as_o we_o wonder_v with_o what_o confidence_n they_o call_v it_o as_o they_o do_v pag._n 40._o a_o shy_a answer_n or_o how_o they_o can_v expect_v that_o the_o world_n who_o know_v they_o and_o we_o will_v believe_v that_o they_o be_v the_o man_n adhere_v to_o these_o thing_n and_o the_o principle_n of_o this_o kirk_n concern_v they_o while_o we_o be_v give_v cause_n of_o jealousy_n that_o we_o do_v not_o or_o will_v not_o stand_v firm_a 15._o they_o will_v make_v the_o world_n believe_v we_o impose_v upon_o their_o judgement_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o their_o protestation_n pag._n 91_o 92_o 93._o when_o yet_o we_o neither_o bid_v they_o renounce_v they_o nor_o acknowledge_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o assembly_n against_o which_o they_o be_v only_o we_o desire_v they_o shall_v not_o in_o any_o judicatory_a of_o this_o kirk_n make_v use_v thereof_o to_o call_v in_o question_n and_o annul_v the_o constitution_n and_o authority_n of_o these_o assembly_n withal_o declare_v that_o this_o do_v not_o import_v their_o pass_n from_o they_o as_o stand_v testimony_n of_o their_o judgement_n nor_o hinder_v they_o to_o make_v use_n thereof_o as_o a_o legal_a defence_n if_o the_o constitution_n and_o act_n of_o these_o assembly_n be_v urge_v against_o they_o yea_o nor_o to_o make_v use_n of_o they_o in_o so_o far_o as_o they_o relate_v to_o the_o public_a resolution_n if_o they_o think_v fit_a to_o offer_v their_o reason_n against_o they_o in_o a_o assembly_n though_o we_o judge_v they_o will_v succumb_v in_o that_o cause_n be_v not_o this_o far_o from_o impose_v on_o their_o judgement_n in_o this_o matter_n to_o make_v this_o assertion_n out_o beside_o their_o constant_a clamour_n against_o subordination_n which_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v in_o due_a time_n they_o offer_v 1._o that_o this_o be_v a_o pass_v from_o these_o protestation_n as_o a_o remedy_n against_o the_o corrupt_a constitution_n of_o these_o two_o assembly_n answ_n and_o do_v they_o not_o by_o our_o concession_n stand_v as_o a_o testimony_n of_o their_o judgement_n against_o they_o and_o what_o other_o remedy_n will_v they_o have_v unless_o to_o draw_v we_o to_o condemn_v these_o assembly_n 2._o that_o it_o shall_v make_v way_n for_o the_o future_a constitution_n and_o authority_n of_o these_o two_o assembly_n ans_fw-fr if_o they_o mean_v the_o constitution_n of_o future_a assembly_n as_o these_o be_v to_o this_o whatever_o our_o own_o judgement_n be_v there_o be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n provide_v in_o our_o offer_n concern_v the_o future_a constitution_n of_o assembly_n above_o mention_v if_o they_o mean_v the_o future_a approbation_n of_o the_o constitution_n and_o authority_n of_o these_o assembly_n in_o a_o subsequent_a assembly_n it_o be_v also_o provide_v that_o they_o be_v free_a to_o make_v use_n of_o their_o protestation_n as_o a_o legal_a defence_n if_o any_o such_o thing_n be_v urge_v against_o they_o 3._o that_o it_o be_v unequal_a to_o submit_v these_o thing_n to_o a_o general_n assembly_n where_o we_o will_v be_v the_o plurality_n and_o be_v many_o way_n engage_v for_o the_o resolution_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o covenant_n and_o act_n and_o declaration_n of_o uncontroverted_a assembly_n answ_n that_o these_o resolution_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o covenant_n etc._n etc._n be_v often_o say_v than_o prove_v and_o though_o they_o say_v it_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v yet_o we_o have_v not_o see_v it_o prove_v nor_o we_o believe_v any_o body_n else_o but_o this_o be_v plain_a language_n that_o they_o will_v refer_v nothing_o to_o a_o church-judicatory_a either_o where_o we_o be_v the_o plurality_n or_o be_v engage_v for_o the_o resolution_n and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o impose_v on_o our_o judgement_n ere_o 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security_n be_v offer_v that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v trouble_v with_o those_o by-gone_a question_n 16._o they_o shutup_a their_o thought_n in_o these_o thing_n with_o a_o sad_a reflection_n pag._n 93_o 94._o that_o it_o smell_v rank_o of_o a_o carnal_a politic_a spirit_n to_o half_a and_o divide_v the_o thing_n of_o god_n for_o make_v peace_n among_o man_n though_o we_o do_v not_o come_v up_o to_o our_o own_o profession_n in_o that_o matter_n of_o offer_v equal_a condition_n answ_n this_o we_o do_v very_o easy_o understand_v by_o what_o they_o give_v out_o of_o our_o condescension_n among_o their_o follower_n that_o we_o be_v man_n who_o do_v not_o adhere_v to_o these_o thing_n out_o of_o conscience_n otherwise_o we_o will_v not_o concede_fw-la so_o much_o we_o leave_v so_o rigid_a a_o frame_n of_o spirit_n before_o he_o who_o know_v what_o we_o be_v put_v to_o suffer_v in_o desire_v to_o heal_v the_o breach_n of_o a_o sink_a church_n and_o as_o none_o but_o man_n of_o donatus_n 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reason_n former_o mention_v though_o we_o have_v no_o assurance_n how_o soon_o they_o may_v usurp_v it_o again_o if_o they_o find_v it_o may_v serve_v their_o turn_n yet_o it_o will_v be_v find_v they_o never_o recede_v a_o jot_n not_o only_o from_o their_o judgement_n but_o even_o from_o any_o of_o their_o act_n in_o reference_n to_o the_o resolution_n and_o their_o protestation_n and_o so_o we_o leave_v the_o case_n of_o this_o poor_a church_n in_o his_o hand_n who_o know_v how_o to_o prove_v a_o physician_n to_o she_o have_v now_o go_v through_o these_o toilsome_a passage_n which_o can_v but_o be_v unpleasant_a to_o judicious_a reader_n as_o it_o have_v be_v indeed_o to_o we_o to_o dwell_v so_o much_o on_o story_n and_o bitter_a reflection_n we_o proceed_v in_o the_o last_o place_n to_o take_v a_o view_n of_o their_o judgement_n in_o a_o very_a material_a question_n concern_v subordination_n to_o judicatories_n and_o