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england_n france_n king_n sister_n 4,447 5 8.9577 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A12701 An ansvvere to Master Iohn De Albines, notable discourse against heresies (as his frendes call his booke) compiled by Thomas Spark pastor of Blechley in the county of Buck Sparke, Thomas, 1548-1616.; Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566. Marques de la vraye église catholique. English. 1591 (1591) STC 23019; ESTC S117703 494,957 544

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last_o judgement_n and_o yet_o here_o he_o find_v no_o three_o sort_n or_o place_n for_o they_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n no_o more_o then_o in_o the_o other_o but_o he_o be_v not_o very_o constant_a herein_o for_o in_o his_o 21_o book_n of_o the_o city_n of_o god_n cap_n 26._o he_o say_v if_o in_o this_o mean_a time_n betwixt_o death_n &_o the_o judgement_n the_o soul_n of_o the_o depart_v be_v say_v to_o suffer_v such_o a_o fire_n or_o there_o only_o or_o there_o and_o here_o or_o therefore_o here_o and_o not_o there_o a_o fire_n he_o say_v of_o transitory_a tribulation_n burn_v up_o their_o worldly_a small_a fault_n i_o reprove_v it_o not_o because_o perhaps_o it_o be_v true_a &_o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la &_o operibus_fw-la cap._n 14._o he_o say_v likewise_o whither_o in_o this_o life_n only_o man_n suffer_v these_o thing_n or_o after_o this_o life_n such_o judgement_n do_v follow_v they_o as_o i_o think_v say_v he_o this_o sense_n of_o paul_n be_v not_o against_o the_o truth_n namely_o to_o understand_v he_o of_o the_o fire_n of_o tribulation_n or_o trial_n and_o in_o his_o enchiridion_n cap._n 68_o he_o say_v that_o the_o fire_n that_o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o 1._o cor._n 3._o be_v the_o fire_n of_o tribulation_n through_o which_o both_o kind_n of_o builder_n there_o speak_v of_o must_v pass_v and_o than_o such_o a_o thing_n may_v be_v after_o this_o life_n it_o be_v not_o incredible_a &_o whither_o it_o be_v so_o or_o no_o it_o may_v be_v a_o question_n cap._n 69._o the_o like_a he_o have_v of_o the_o 8_o question_n of_o dulcitius_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o of_o they_o wherein_o it_o appear_v that_o he_o be_v very_o uncertain_a whither_o there_o be_v or_o no_o any_o such_o fire_n of_o tribulation_n after_o this_o life_n any_o where_o before_o the_o last_o judgement_n to_o purge_v man_n of_o some_o kind_n of_o sin_n but_o what_o these_o sin_n be_v that_o stay_v man_n from_o go_v to_o heaven_n straight_o upon_o their_o death_n whereof_o after_o they_o may_v get_v some_o relief_n and_o ease_n he_o say_v it_o be_v hard_a to_o find_v and_o perilous_a to_o define_v and_o as_o for_o his_o own_o part_n he_o confess_v that_o though_o to_o that_o time_n he_o have_v labour_v to_o find_v out_o what_o they_o be_v yet_o he_o can_v not_o lib._n 21._o the_o civet_n dei_fw-la cap._n 27._o and_o how_o dangerous_a it_o be_v and_o be_v to_o fall_v into_o such_o doubt_n we_o may_v see_v in_o he_o for_o in_o the_o 24_o chapter_n of_o the_o same_o book_n it_o appear_v that_o upon_o this_o supposition_n that_o there_o may_v be_v some_o such_o purge_a fire_n as_o he_o sometime_o doubt_v of_o he_o move_v this_o sound_a question_n whither_o they_o shall_v be_v save_v who_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n shall_v find_v unpurged_a with_o this_o fire_n which_o yet_o may_v have_v be_v purge_v with_o it_o if_o it_o have_v not_o come_v so_o soon_o and_o he_o resolve_v that_o with_o a_o other_o doubtful_a imagination_n that_o they_o suffer_v for_o a_o time_n some_o pain_n shall_v have_v mercy_n as_o he_o think_v &_o not_o be_v condemn_v to_o hell_n and_o in_o this_o say_v 20_o book_n of_o the_o city_n of_o god_n he_o have_v a_o opinion_n cap._n 25._o that_o in_o the_o last_o judgement_n before_o sentence_n be_v pronounce_v some_o shall_v pass_v through_o purge_v pain_n and_o yet_o in_o the_o three_o question_n to_o dulcitius_n he_o determine_v it_o as_o a_o flat_a truth_n to_o be_v believe_v that_o in_o the_o last_o judgement_n there_o shall_v be_v no_o delay_n but_o immediate_o upon_o the_o second_o come_v of_o christ_n it_o shall_v be_v as_o we_o be_v teach_v matth._n 25._o hereby_o we_o see_v how_o watter_a and_o inconstant_a even_o famous_a learned_a man_n become_v when_o they_o once_o wander_v without_o the_o light_n of_o the_o word_n after_o the_o discourse_n and_o reason_n of_o the_o wit_n of_o man_n how_o much_o better_a have_v it_o be_v for_o augustin_n in_o these_o question_n to_o remember_v the_o rule_n and_o to_o have_v follow_v that_o which_o he_o give_v other_o in_o such_o case_n as_o i_o show_v before_o in_o the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o former_a point_n out_o of_o his_o second_o book_n de_fw-fr pecca_fw-la meritis_fw-la &_o remiss_a cap._n 36._o yet_o in_o none_o of_o these_o place_n or_o else_o where_o can_v i_o find_v that_o he_o once_o dream_v of_o such_o a_o purgatory_n fire_n as_o the_o papist_n teach_v which_o shall_v be_v material_a and_o of_o the_o same_o nature_n that_o the_o fire_n of_o hell_n be_v save_v only_o that_o it_o be_v not_o eternal_a as_o that_o wherefore_o i_o conclude_v of_o he_o as_o of_o origen_n these_o thing_n consider_v the_o argument_n be_v like_a to_o be_v very_o doughty_a and_o strong_a that_o be_v bring_v from_o any_o mention_n that_o augustine_n make_v of_o purgation_n after_o this_o life_n either_o to_o prove_v popish_a purgatory_n or_o prayer_n to_o relieve_v the_o soul_n of_o they_o that_o be_v there_o and_o even_o as_o i_o have_v say_v of_o these_o two_o so_o may_v i_o likewise_o of_o most_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n from_o whence_o they_o will_v seem_v at_o any_o time_n to_o fetch_v countenance_n for_o this_o their_o purpose_n they_o be_v so_o variable_a waver_a and_o inconstant_a in_o their_o speech_n most_o of_o they_o about_o this_o matter_n but_o this_o i_o hope_n be_v and_o will_v be_v sufficient_a to_o prove_v the_o weakness_n of_o albins_n argument_n from_o these_o two_o to_o justify_v his_o pray_n for_o the_o dead_a because_o these_o two_o in_o some_o of_o the_o place_n quote_v by_o he_o when_o he_o can_v get_v they_o to_o come_v no_o near_o the_o point_n have_v in_o some_o sort_n speak_v of_o purge_v of_o man_n after_o this_o life_n in_o pain_n now_o therefore_o likewise_o i_o be_o to_o show_v how_o weak_a there_o argument_n be_v draw_v from_o some_o mention_n find_v in_o some_o of_o the_o father_n of_o some_o kind_n of_o remember_v the_o dead_a in_o prayer_n which_o easy_o may_v be_v conceive_v if_o we_o understand_v that_o first_o there_o may_v be_v a_o honourable_a mention_n or_o remembrance_n make_v of_o those_o that_o be_v dead_a in_o the_o lord_n without_o any_o pray_n for_o they_o at_o all_o to_o show_v our_o thankfulness_n to_o god_n for_o the_o good_a example_n they_o leave_v we_o both_o of_o live_v holy_o &_o die_v christianly_o the_o better_a to_o provoke_v other_o by_o so_o remember_v of_o they_o to_o imitate_v their_o good_a example_n and_o last_o so_o to_o nourish_v in_o ourselves_o the_o hope_n of_o a_o joyful_a resurrection_n and_o to_o testify_v our_o love_n and_o christian_a affection_n towards_o they_o so_o depart_v which_o questionless_a be_v all_o that_o be_v do_v a_o long_a time_n at_o the_o keep_n of_o the_o memory_n of_o their_o death_n or_o at_o any_o time_n else_o and_o of_o this_o very_a well_o may_v both_o tertullian_n and_o cyprian_n be_v understand_v in_o the_o place_n here_o quote_v by_o albin_n as_o i_o will_v show_v anon_o from_o such_o a_o fashion_n of_o mention_v the_o dead_a in_o our_o prayer_n every_o simple_a man_n may_v see_v popish_a pray_v for_o they_o have_v no_o countenance_n at_o all_o second_o we_o ought_v to_o be_v advertise_v that_o forasmuch_o as_o they_o that_o be_v dead_a in_o the_o lord_n have_v not_o yet_o their_o consummation_n nor_o shall_v not_o before_o the_o last_o day_n that_o in_o that_o respect_n also_o for_o such_o of_o who_o we_o full_o be_v persuade_v that_o they_o so_o die_v that_o they_o have_v their_o part_n in_o the_o promisse_fw-la thereof_o prayer_n may_v be_v make_v by_o the_o godly_a alive_a very_o lawful_o and_o therefore_o thus_o we_o grant_v the_o ancient_a father_n may_v pray_v for_o the_o dead_a and_o thus_o we_o ourselves_o as_o appear_v here_o in_o england_n by_o the_o form_n of_o prayer_n appoint_v to_o be_v use_v at_o the_o burial_n of_o the_o dead_a refuse_v not_o to_o pray_v that_o we_o with_o those_o brethren_n and_o sister_n of_o we_o that_o depart_v hence_o in_o the_o lord_n may_v have_v our_o perfect_a consummation_n and_o bliss_n at_o the_o last_o day_n in_o the_o general_a resurrection_n and_o yet_o of_o prayer_n thus_o make_v for_o such_o only_a by_o they_o or_o we_o neither_o popish_a pray_n for_o the_o dead_a nor_o purgatory_n have_v any_o ground_n last_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o many_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o abundance_n of_o love_n towards_o their_o friend_n depart_v who_o soul_n they_o be_v full_o persuade_v be_v in_o rest_n and_o in_o joy_n and_o felicity_n with_o the_o lord_n in_o heaven_n as_o they_o show_v even_o in_o the_o very_a place_n when_o their_o prayer_n for_o they_o be_v set_v down_o pray_v yet_o unto_o god_n for_o they_o thus_o pray_v nazianzen_n for_o his_o
ever_o those_o that_o be_v sanctify_v heb._n 10._o that_o he_o be_v able_a to_o save_v perfect_o those_o that_o come_v unto_o god_n by_o he_o he._n 7._o that_o as_o there_o be_v but_o one_o god_n so_o there_o be_v but_o one_o mediator_n betwixt_o god_n and_o man_n the_o man_n christ_n jesus_n 1._o tim._n 2._o and_o that_o s._n paul_n most_o confident_o tell_v the_o galathian_o that_o if_o with_o that_o opinion_n that_o the_o false_a apostle_n have_v teach_v they_o they_o will_v be_v circumcise_v christ_n shall_v profit_v they_o nothing_o at_o all_o they_o be_v fall_v from_o grace_n gal._n 5._o and_o yet_o notwithstanding_o the_o most_o clear_a and_o plain_a evidence_n of_o these_o scripture_n and_o sundry_a other_o place_n to_o the_o like_a effect_n so_o give_v be_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o now_o be_v and_o have_v be_v a_o long_a time_n to_o spoil_v christ_n of_o a_o great_a part_n of_o this_o special_a honour_n &_o glory_n that_o be_v due_a unto_o he_o that_o it_o can_v abide_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n worse_o than_o that_o man_n shall_v he_o drive_v by_o the_o schoolmaster_n the_o law_n out_o of_o themselves_o quite_o in_o christ_n full_o and_o free_o sole_o and_o whole_o by_o faith_n to_o seek_v for_o their_o justification_n here_o and_o salvation_n hereafter_o and_o therefore_o in_o it_o that_o in_o the_o deep_a policy_n of_o satan_n to_o blunt_v the_o edge_n of_o the_o law_n that_o it_o have_v not_o this_o force_n to_o break_v and_o make_v contrite_a the_o heart_n of_o man_n with_o the_o ugly_a sight_n of_o his_o own_o infinite_a sin_n and_o punishment_n due_a unto_o he_o for_o the_o same_o to_o drive_v he_o to_o hunger_n and_o thirst_n after_o that_o effectual_a justification_n and_o salvation_n offer_v unto_o man_n by_o the_o gospel_n in_o christ_n they_o teach_v that_o man_n have_v freewill_n to_o good_a that_o concupiscence_n or_o the_o first_o motion_n to_o sin_n rise_v in_o man_n not_o consent_v unto_o be_v no_o sin_n that_o many_o sin_n even_o for_o their_o own_o littleness_n be_v venial_a that_o by_o good_a deed_n man_n may_v satisfy_v god_n for_o his_o misdeed_n that_o man_n may_v fulfil_v the_o law_n yea_o that_o man_n may_v have_v work_n of_o supererogation_n more_o than_o he_o need_v for_o his_o own_o salvation_n and_o that_o man_n by_o their_o work_n may_v merit_v a_o great_a part_n of_o their_o own_o salvation_n yea_o have_v merit_n both_o before_o justification_n flow_v from_o their_o pure_a natural_a faculty_n and_o power_n to_o provoke_v god_n to_o think_v it_o congruum_fw-la that_o be_v meet_v and_o convenient_a that_o even_o therefore_o he_o shall_v bestow_v his_o grace_n upon_o they_o and_o after_o merit_n de_fw-la condigno_fw-la that_o even_o for_o their_o very_a worthiness_n deserve_v a_o everlasting_a reward_n of_o bliss_n at_o god_n hand_n both_o for_o themselves_o and_o other_o and_o when_o they_o will_v seem_v to_o be_v come_v unto_o christ_n and_o to_o believe_v in_o he_o yet_o in_o no_o case_n will_v they_o trust_v to_o he_o alone_o and_o that_o that_o he_o have_v do_v and_o still_o do_v for_o they_o but_o then_o his_o suffering_n and_o their_o own_o his_o merit_n and_o their_o own_o and_o their_o friend_n his_o sacrifice_n and_o their_o own_o in_o their_o mass_n his_o mediation_n and_o the_o mediation_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n and_o a_o hundred_o thing_n else_o even_o childish_a and_o ridiculous_a for_o the_o matter_n of_o salvation_n must_v be_v trust_v unto_o that_o it_o be_v thus_o all_o the_o world_n see_v and_o they_o themselves_o in_o print_a book_n stand_v upon_o it_o that_o it_o must_v be_v thus_o and_o that_o we_o be_v heretic_n because_o we_o will_v not_o let_v they_o alone_o in_o thus_o apparel_v themselves_o their_o friend_n and_o their_o toy_n with_o the_o spoil_n of_o our_o christ_n and_o so_o their_o very_a glory_n be_v their_o shame_n a_o christ_n that_o be_v so_o base_a mind_v in_o the_o office_n of_o justify_v and_o save_v of_o man_n soul_n thus_o to_o be_v jumble_a and_o join_v with_o so_o many_o partner_n and_o helper_n be_v a_o christ_n of_o their_o own_o devise_v such_o a_o one_o doubtless_o as_o we_o can_v hear_v no_o news_n of_o either_o in_o old_a or_o new_a testament_n and_o therefore_o out_o of_o all_o question_n they_o shall_v find_v that_o while_o they_o run_v a_o mad_a after_o this_o fancied_a new_a christ_n of_o their_o own_o the_o old_a true_a christ_n will_v profit_v they_o nothing_o at_o all_o and_o that_o they_o be_v quite_o fall_v from_o grace_n no_o man_n who_o eye_n god_n have_v open_v aright_o either_o to_o understand_v the_o law_n or_o the_o gospel_n but_o see_v and_o know_v these_o thing_n to_o be_v true_a of_o they_o he_o must_v needs_o think_v and_o be_v resolve_v that_o popery_n be_v even_o that_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n that_o saint_n paul_n speak_v of_o 2._o thess_n 2._o and_o that_o the_o papist_n be_v flat_a those_o flase_n teacher_n that_o saint_n peter_n speak_v of_o 2._o epistle_n chap._n 3._o which_o privy_o shall_v bring_v in_o damnable_a heresy_n even_o deny_v the_o lord_n that_o have_v buy_v they_o and_o so_o bring_v upon_o themselves_o swift_a damnation_n who_o yet_o many_o shall_v follow_v and_o by_o who_o the_o way_n of_o truth_n shall_v be_v evil_o speak_v of_o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v needful_a therefore_o i_o will_v think_v especial_o consider_v how_o earnest_a saint_n peter_n be_v there_o to_o persuade_v man_n to_o shun_v such_o for_o we_o to_o leave_v they_o and_o forsake_v they_o as_o we_o have_v the_o thing_n which_o in_o this_o behalf_n we_o have_v especial_o to_o mourn_v for_o be_v that_o we_o forsake_v they_o no_o soon_o howbeit_o though_o the_o better_a to_o countenance_v their_o church_n and_o religion_n and_o to_o prove_v we_o in_o thus_o forsake_v of_o they_o to_o have_v bring_v in_o such_o a_o schism_n as_o he_o talk_v of_o he_o will_v make_v thou_o christian_n reader_n believe_v that_o all_o the_o world_n be_v at_o unity_n with_o they_o in_o their_o faith_n &_o and_o false_a brag_n as_o if_o thou_o read_v the_o four_o chapter_n of_o my_o answer_n to_o albine_v and_o the_o 11._o &_o 37._o thou_o shall_v most_o plain_o see_v it_o seem_v the_o man_n be_v very_o impudent_a or_o very_o childish_o ignorant_a of_o history_n that_o will_v thus_o write_v for_o who_o of_o any_o learning_n or_o read_v be_v ignorant_a that_o not_o only_o the_o greek_a church_n and_o other_o eastern_a church_n some_o hundred_o year_n before_o the_o time_n that_o he_o speak_v of_o break_v of_o communion_n with_o they_o but_o that_o also_o even_o here_o in_o these_o western_a part_n in_o france_n bohemia_n here_o in_o england_n and_o elswher_o long_o before_o this_o time_n petrus_n valdus_n john_n wickliff_n john_n hus_n &_o hierom_n of_o prage_n have_v so_o many_o follower_n and_o partaker_n against_o they_o and_o their_o abomination_n that_o for_o all_o the_o tyranny_n and_o most_o savage_a persecution_n that_o they_o have_v use_v to_o root_v they_o out_o by_o from_o time_n to_o time_n that_o yet_o notwithstanding_o they_o have_v continue_v do_v &_o will_v still_o in_o one_o place_n or_o other_o maugre_o all_o their_o malice_n even_o to_o recompense_v that_o whore_n of_o babylon_n as_o she_o have_v deserve_v at_o their_o hand_n as_o for_o the_o variety_n of_o opinion_n among_o we_o that_o he_o upbrayd_v we_o withal_o it_o be_v a_o objection_n that_o john_n de_fw-fr albine_n often_o harp_v upon_o &_o therefore_o which_o in_o answer_v of_o he_o i_o have_v sufficient_o i_o hope_v answer_v only_o this_o therefore_o to_o y●_z i_o further_o say_v here_o that_o though_o they_o be_v more_o and_o great_a than_o we_o like_v of_o yet_o they_o be_v nether_a so_o great_a nor_o many_o as_o these_o our_o adversary_n by_o amplify_a of_o this_o objection_n &_o by_o multiply_v of_o name_n will_v seem_v to_o make_v they_o nor_o yet_o in_o such_o point_n but_o that_o notwithstanding_o we_o all_o agree_v in_o the_o fundamental_a &_o most_o principal_a point_n of_o christian_n religion_n whereby_o we_o hope_v it_o will_v through_o god_n goodness_n come_v to_o pass_v that_o we_o shall_v short_o also_o grow_v to_o unity_n in_o the_o rest_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n sure_o i_o be_o that_o they_o who_o by_o any_o reason_n he_o may_v say_v be_v of_o we_o for_o our_o hold_a fellowship_n and_o communion_n together_o in_o our_o confession_n of_o the_o christian_n faith_n be_v all_o among_o ourselves_o at_o far_o more_o unity_n than_o such_o as_o he_o like_v of_o &_o at_o far_o better_a unity_n than_o they_o be_v or_o ever_o have_v be_v since_o they_o depart_v from_o us._n as_o for_o the_o anabaptist_n &_o diverse_a other_o who_o sometime_o they_o charge_v we_o in_o this_o case_n also_o withal_o they_o know_v well_o enough_o we_o