speaking of Gregory the seuenth commonly called Hildebrand and his proceedings against the Emperour Henry not only to excommunicate him but also to depose him â—ith Lego relego Romanorum regum Imperatorum gesta c. â—read and read againe the acts of the Romane kings and Emperours and yet before this I finde none of them of the Romane â—ishop excommunicated or depriued of his kingdome But 〈◊〉 we read Sigebert Abbas Vrspergensis H. Mutius and others vve shall finde that the same Bishop for this his Antichristiâ—n pride and other faultes that hee had vvas not onely wonderfully vvithstoode and oppugned by that Emperour but â—y councels also then held at Brixia Mentz and Wormes â—harpely rebuked condemned and desposed And though hee hauing thus begunne to encroch vpon the Emperour many of his successours follovved him in his very steps yet we read also in Cronicles that Henrie the fifte Fredericke the first and Fredericke the second Emperours Philip the faire and Carolus Caluus of Fraunce Henry the first and second Richard the second and king Iohn of England with sundry other Emperours and kings did notably and openly resist them therein and that they had alvvaies many learned fathers and Bishops to take their partes But to leaue this matter and to go on to others because the author of this preface and brag that I novv am in aunswering in his brag maketh speciall mention as you haue heard of their order of ceremonies and manner of praying and fasting bosting that for these they haue the holy fathers the consent of all christian nations and prescription of long continuance yea for the tvvo last the very scriptures let vs first see if wee can finde out the originall and vvithall the iust reproofe and condemnation of these First for their ceremonies none that hath but redde Platina or any other story of the liues of their popes but he hath red when how and by whom they were deuised for there is few of them for many hundred yeares together that thought as it should seeme by the vvriters of their liues that they had worthily sate in that place vnles they had deuised some newe rite and ceremony more then was before But if one goe no further then to Polidor de inventoribus rerum there shall hee finde when and by whom they had their originall whereby also it shal appeare that for many of theÌ„ they are of so late devising they cannot pretend either the testimony of ancient fathers or prescriptioÌ„ of any long time for very few of them whatsoeuer he bragges can they truly alleadge consent of all Christian regions for as they haue most of them beene deuised here in these parts of the worlde by bishops of Rome so few of them in comparison haue beene 〈◊〉 yet be receaued in the other parts of Christianity that were vnder the other Patriarches of ConstaÌ„tinople Alexandria Antioch yea euen here in these parts all their rites ceremonies were neuer yet vniuersally receaued of euery cuntry alike no nor yet of euery part of any one cuntry But they being in number so many in nature a number of them so childish and foolish yet hauing beene vrged as they haue to be vsed with such opinion and holines S. Pauls reprehension of those that were in his time so busy with the Colossians in vrging theÌ„ to keepe their ordinances the keeping whereof lay in touch not tast not handle not Coloss 2. is both a bewraying when such like ceremonies as these that he brags of first began and also a iust and a full condemnation of them Read also S. Augustines 119 epistle ad Ianuarium and you shall finde there how earnestly he hath enueied against the multiplying and bringing in so vrging of such vnnecessary rites and ceremonies shewing how few the simplicity of the gospel is contented withal And yet as it is wel known he liued 1000 years ago and that since his time there are 1000. newrites ceremonies deuised in the Romish church that he neuer had heard of yet theÌ„ he complained that there were so many and they so seruilely were vrged that the Iewes state was in that respect far more tolerable what would he haue said then if he had liued in these daies and had seene the curious infinite and foolish rites and ceremonies but of one popish priest formally doing his masse Indeed fasting is a thing and so is prayer that hath countenance of scriptures fathers Christian regions and of all ages and times but so hath not either the popish fasting or praying For their fasting is tyed superstitiously to set daies and also lyeth especially in abstinence from one meat rather then from an other their end therein being not onely to chastise the body that it may be brought the more readily feruently to obey the holy direction of the spirit as the word of God teacheth onely it should but euen thereby to satisfie either for some sin past or to earne or deserue somewhat at the hands of God Such fasting as this was that of the hypocritical pharisies wherof Christ warm â—s disciples Mat. 6.16 the first fathers teachers hereof are â—hose spirits of errour that S. Paul speakes of 1. Tim. 4. and so you â—ay there see both who first in the church of Christ found out â—ractised your kind of fasting who by by spied it condeÌ„â—ed it for hypocritical the doctrine of deuils But if you would â—aue vs to search further we tel you that after Christ his Apoâ—tles times Eusebius reports in his 5 booke 16 chapter out of Aâ—olonius that Montanus the heretique prescribed lawes of fasting he is the first that we read of that tyed fasting by law to preâ—cript daies times which is there reckoned vp by that Apolonius â—s one of his heretical deuises This Montanus was about they eare of the Lord 145. And it appears in Augustines 2. booke 13. cha of the manners of the church of the Manichees that it was the fashioÌ„ theÌ„ of those heretiques to thinke vpon their fasting daies that they fasted excelleÌ„tly though otherwise they had neuer so daintyâ—e so they abstained from flesh wine for the which Augustine doth deride theÌ„ And coÌ„sequently herein Apolonius Augustine haue shewed their dislike of that popish fasting If yet â—t should be replied as it is by some of their side that their fasting is not altogither like the condemned abstinence of these ancient heretiques others for that they abstained froÌ„ flesh vpon an opinion that flesh was an impurer creature then fish how will they theÌ„ excuse Durand li. 6. ca. de ieiunijs who giueth this as a reason of their abstinence vpon fasting daies rather from flesh then from fish because al flesh was accursed in the daies of Noe not all fish Now touching their maÌ„ner of praying for al his brag neither fathers consent of all Christian regions prescription of any long continuaÌ„ce of time
Fredericke the second Emperours Philip the faire and Carolus Caluus of Fraunce Henry the first and second Richard the second and king Iohn of England with sundry other Emperours and kings did notably and openly resist them therein and that they had alvvaies many learned fathers and Bishops to take their partes But to leaue this matter and to go on to others because the author of this preface and brag that I novv am in aunswering in his brag maketh speciall mention as you haue heard of their order of ceremonies and manner of praying and fasting bosting that for these they haue the holy fathers the consent of all christian nations and prescription of long continuance yea for the tvvo last the very scriptures let vs first see if wee can finde out the originall and vvithall the iust reproofe and condemnation of these First for their ceremonies none that hath but redde Platina or any other story of the liues of their popes but he hath red when how and by whom they were deuised for there is few of them for many hundred yeares together that thought as it should seeme by the vvriters of their liues that they had worthily sate in that place vnles they had deuised some newe rite and ceremony more then was before But if one goe no further then to Polidor de inventoribus rerum there shall hee finde when and by whom they had their originall whereby also it shal appeare that for many of thē they are of so late devising they cannot pretend either the testimony of ancient fathers or prescriptiō of any long time for very few of them whatsoeuer he bragges can they truly alleadge consent of all Christian regions for as they haue most of them beene deuised here in these parts of the worlde by bishops of Rome so few of them in comparison haue beene or yet be receaued in the other parts of Christianity that were vnder the other Patriarches of Constātinople Alexandria Antioch yea euen here in these parts all their rites ceremonies were neuer yet vniuersally receaued of euery cuntry alike no nor yet of euery part of any one cuntry But they being in number so many in nature a number of them so childish and foolish yet hauing beene vrged as they haue to be vsed with such opinion and holines S. Pauls reprehension of those that were in his time so busy with the Colossians in vrging thē to keepe their ordinances the keeping whereof lay in touch not tast not handle not Coloss 2. is both a bewraying when such like ceremonies as these that he brags of first began and also a iust and a full condemnation of them Read also S. Augustines 119 epistle ad Ianuarium and you shall finde there how earnestly he hath enueied against the multiplying and bringing in so vrging of such vnnecessary rites and ceremonies shewing how few the simplicity of the gospel is contented withal And yet as it is wel known he liued 1000 years ago and that since his time there are 1000. new rites ceremonies deuised in the Romish church that he neuer had heard of yet thē he complained that there were so many and they so seruilely were vrged that the Iewes state was in that respect far more tolerable what would he haue said then if he had liued in these daies and had seene the curious infinite and foolish rites and ceremonies but of one popish priest formally doing his masse Indeed fasting is a thing and so is prayer that hath countenance of scriptures fathers Christian regions and of all ages and times but so hath not either the popish fasting or praying For their fasting is tyed superstitiously to set daies and also lyeth especially in abstinence from one meat rather then from an other their end therein being not onely to chastise the body that it may be brought the more readily feruently to obey the holy direction of the spirit as the word of God teacheth onely it should but euen thereby to satisfie either for some sin past or to earne or deserue somewhat at the hands of God Such fasting as this was that of the hypocritical pharisies wherof Christ warn◠his disciples Mat. 6.16 the first fathers teachers hereof are those spirits of errour that S. Paul speakes of 1. Tim. 4. and so you may there see both who first in the church of Christ found out practised your kind of fasting who by by spied it condēned it for hypocritical the doctrine of deuils But if you would haue vs to search further we tel you that after Christ his Apostles times Eusebius reports in his 5 booke 16 chapter out of Apolonius that Montanus the heretique prescribed lawes of fasting he is the first that we read of that tyed fasting by law to prescript daies times which is there reckoned vp by that Apolonius as one of his heretical deuises This Montanus was about the yeare of the Lord 145. And it appears in Augustines 2. booke 13. cha of the manners of the church of the Manichees that it was the fashiō thē of those heretiques to thinke vpon their fasting daies that they fasted excellētly though otherwise they had neuer so daintyre so they abstained from flesh wine for the which Augustine doth deride thē And cōsequently herein Apolonius Augustine haue shewed their dislike of that popish fasting If yet it should be replied as it is by some of their side that their fasting is not altogither like the condemned abstinence of these ancient heretiques others for that they abstained frō flesh vpon an opinion that flesh was an impurer creature then fish how will they thē excuse Durand li. 6. ca. de ieiunijs who giueth this as a reason of their abstinence vpon fasting daies rather from flesh then from fish because al flesh was accursed in the daies of Noe not all fish Now touching their māner of praying for al his brag neither fathers consent of all Christian regions prescription of any long continuāce of time nor scriptures giue it any credit or coūtenāce at al. For first whereas now they pray al in Latine a toūg not vnderstood of most that heare vse their prayers it is a kinde of praying flatly condemned because it is without edification to such by Chrysostome Ambrose vpō the 14. of the first to the Corinthians Augustine also de Genesi ad literā li. 12. Cap. 8. ioines with them herein aduouching that no mā is edified by hearing that which he vnderstands not And the descriptions of al the auncient lyturgies in the Church shew that alwaies they were vsed in such a tongue as the people vnderstood aswell as the minister there is such mentiō of intercourse of speech one to the other as any man may see that perused the descriptions thereof yea writers both old new do plainely testify that the ancient long cōtinued vse of the church hath bene to haue
oft in this your booke and the rest of your side continually beare the simple reader and vnlearned Christian in hand that before Luther there were none of our religion that haue so condemned your Church and religion as we doe I wil vouchsafe for the better inabling of euery one that shall read this my answere to see your vanity and impiety though this which I haue noted already be sufficient to lay open your folly to proceed yet somewhat further in this matter Wherefore to go on in the course of times though your popish Church hath bene in her ruffe and at the heighest that euer she was this latter 400 yeares yet we are able to shew that there haue bene many euen in this time from time to time and that in sundry places that haue ioyned with vs against you that therefore there is no such newnesse or strangenes in our religion a d doings as you would make the ignorant beleeue For in the dayes of Gregory the 9 in the yeare 1230 the Greeke Church and other Easterne Churches did quite forsake communion with yours who euer since ioyne with vs in a number of thinges against you as namely in withstanding the supremacy of your Romish Bishop as appeareth not onely by one Epistle that Germanus Petriarch of Constantinople wrote vnto the pope in the yeare 1237 but also by a large booke writen about the yeare 1384 by Nilus Archbishop of Thessalonica wherein he doeth not onely confute his Supremacy euen as we doe but also he enueigheth against al those that hold communion with the Popish or latin Church And as it appeareth in ancient record in the Church of Herford wherein 29 of the Articles wherein they differ from the Church of Rome are set downe they ioine not only with vs in this point in seperating thēselues frō the Romish Church in denying the popes supremacie which is the very foundation of your Church and religion but also in denying purgatory and masses for the dead in holding it lawfull for their ministers to enioy the benefit of matrimony in not vsing any priuate masse in not denying the cup to any that receaue in not ministring the communion in priuate houses in not vsing extreme vnction and in sundry other points And by diuers Epistles writen from thence of late extant in print both in greeke and latin to Chitreus and other Germans it euidently appeareth that they ioyne with vs against the Romish Church in many other great and weighty points of our religiō and that great hope there is that they might easily be brought to ioyne with vs in the rest Besides these Easterne churches euē here in these westerne parts euident it is that there haue beene many great learned and famous persons with innumerable followers at all tymes from age to age in these latter 400 yeares when the tyranny of your popes to represse them hath bene the greatest and strongest that euer it was which yet haue openly with vs stood forth against them and their religion For Fredericke the second as diuers other Emperours had beene before him as namely Constantine the 5. Leo his sonne and Constantine the 6 in the East and Henry the 4 and 5 in the West was a notable Antagonist of the 3 popes in his time contending against them to maintaine the authority of Christian princes against their vsurped Supremacy ouer them about the yeare 1260 as notoriously the Cronicles of those times writen by your owne men Platina Sabelicus and others declare And 20 years before that Krātzius testifieth in his history that there were many that preached openly in Sueuia that the Pope was an heretique his clergy Symoniakes and generally they all seducers of the people Ten yeares after that florished Arnoldus De nouâ villâ a Spaniard who taught that Sathā had thē seduced the world that the faith thē taught was but such as deuils had meaning belike a bare historicall faith that the pope led men to hell that he and his clergy did falsifie the doctrine of Christ that masses were naught not to be saied for the dead c. and therefore your popish Church condemned him for an heretique Much what about the same time was Gulielmus De Sancto amore a master and chiefe ruler then in Paris who went as farre as Arnoldus applying the same Scriptures which concerne Antichrist as we doe to the pope and his clergy and therefore hee also was condemned for an heretique and his bookes burnt by your popish rout And in the yeare 1260 Laurentius Anglicus a master of Paris also tooke this Williams part against the pope wrote a booke in his defence In the yeare 1290 Petrus Iohānes a Minorite directly preached the pope to be Antichrist and Rome great Babylon and therefore he was burnt after he was dead 30 yeares and more before this Robert Grosthead a famous learned man and Bishop of Lincolne for hee died in the yeare one thousand two hunderd fifty three was a great withstander of the popes tyranny and three dayes before his death hauing conference with his clergy he laboureth to make them see by sundry demonstrations that the pope was Antichrist and his doings Antichristian King Philip of France about the yeare one thousand three hundred was a great withstander of the Supremacy which now the Pope challengeth and a resister in his dominions of sundry of his enormities and William Nagareta and the prelates of France then ioyned with their king against the pope Grosthead this king Philip and his clergy as afterward king Edward the 3. king of England in the yeare 1346 despised the popes curse appealed frō him to God There is in an ancient Chronicle of S. Albons a notable Epistle of one Cassiodorus to the Church of England wherein are layed forth a number of lamentable abuses in the Roman Church in the yeare one thousand three hundred twenty eight In the Extrauagants we reade that Marsillius Patauinus Iohannes de Ganduno Michael Chesenas Petrus de Carborea and Iohannes de Poliaco all great learned men were condemned by the Pope for preaching against his Supremacy and other errours of that Church of his about the yeare 1326. There were thē also many learned mē more that disputed wrote against his Supremacy which took part with Ludouicke the Emperour against him as William Occam Luitpoldus Andreas Landanensis Vlricus Hangenor the Emperors treasurer and others Dante 's liuing in the yeare one thousand three hundred wrote against the Pope the orders of religious men and the Doctours of the Decrees saying that these were three great enemies to the trueth he flatly hath left in writing in his cāticle of Purgatory that the Pope of a pastor was become a woulfe that he was the whoar of Babylon In the yeare 1350. Gregory Ariminensis Andreas de Castro and Burdianus taught as we doe against your doctrine of freewill and merites Taulerus then a preacher in Argentine preached openly against your doctrine
to abridge them of their wil and to resist their tyrannicall oppressions then they laboured practised by all meanes to hamper them also in so much that certaine it is that Gregorie the 7. excommunicated Henry the 4. or as some write 3. about the year 1078. gaue his empire to Rodolph who missing of it being slain the Emperour yet to be recoÌ„ciled with the Pope waited 3. daies 3. nights in the winter with his wife and child at the gates of Canossus and within the suburbes thereof barefoote barelegged before he could come to the speech of the Pope when he had obteined that then he was faine to kisse his foote and to yeelde vp his crowne into his hands to take it againe vpon such conditions as it pleased him to prescribe and yet his successour Pascalis raged against the same Emperour againe set vp his owne naturall sonne Henry to depriue his father of his Empire Who when he had got it yet he was in the ende accursed and excommunicated by that Romish see as his father had beene and not preuailing sufficiently that way the Saxons at last were set vp to warre against him and depose him And thus they hauing hampered these two HeÌ„ries vnto Frederick Barbarossa came which was about the yeare 1155. they did what they listed who beganne somewhat againe to abridge them of their vsurped supremacy and so did his sons sonne Frederick the 2. but in the ende Alexander the third brought the necke of the first vnder his feete in S. Marks church in Venice and Pope Adrian controlde him from holding his wrong stirrop excommunicated him for being so saucy as to set his name in writing before his and the other was miserably vexed by Honorius the 3. Gregory the 9. and Innocent the 4. For the first of these interdicted him the second excommunicated him twise raised the Venetians against him and the third did in the end spoile him of his Empire caused him to be poisoned and at length strangled by one MaÌ„fredus Innocent the 3. in the minority of Frederick the second and before he was chosen Emperour dealt in like sort with Philip and Otho the 4. placing them and displacing them at his pleasure Frederick the seconds sonne called Conrade and the next of his line also called Conradine were amongst theÌ„ miserably abused for the first of them was soone dispatched they stirring vp against him the LaÌ„tgraue of Turing who droue him into his kingdome of Naples where he died of poisoÌ„ giueÌ„ him as some write the other claiming but the kingdome of Naples after his death the matter was so handled they stirring vp Charles the French Kinges brother against him that both he Frederick Duke of Austria were takeÌ„ imprisoned in the end beheaded HeÌ„ry the 6. Frederick the firsts son Pope Celestine the 3. crowned at Rome but in such sort that with his foote he put the croune vpon his head therewith he spurned it of againe And the like that happened to Frederick had almost befalleÌ„ Philip the FreÌ„ch king by Pope Boniface the 8. who because he could not haue whatsoeuer commodities he demaunded out of France by his bull denouÌ„ced sentence of deposition against the saied King Philip and gaue the title thereof to one Albertus king of the Romans â—â—t for all the roaring of that bull Philip kept his place still AlexaÌ„der the 3. that trode vpon Frederick the firsts necke at Venice euen here in England so farre abused King Henry the 2. about Thomas Beckets death that he caused him to go for penaunce barefoote in winter with bleeding feete to his tombe And Innocent the third caused King Iohn his sonne after that 7. yeares he had resisted their supremacy tyranny by the meanes of his excommunicatioÌ„s indicements of his land and encouraging of his subiects against him to surrender his croune to the hands of his Legat Pandelphus and so he continued fiue daies before hee receiued it againe and then was glad to take it in farme of him for a rent by indenture Infinit be the villanies that haue bene offered done by that see to Emperours and Kings For did not Gregory the 7. to the great iniury of the Empire set vp Robert Wisard and made him King of Sicilia and Duke of Capua Did not Pope Vrbane the second put downe Hugo an Earle in Italy discharging his subiects from their oath and obedience vnto him Did not Pope Clement the fift most despitefully cause Franciscus Dandalus the VenetiaÌ„ embassadour suing but for absolution of Venice from the Popes curse to lie a long time first tied by the neck in a chaine vnder his table like a dogge before he would harken to his request Furthermore Gelasius the second brought the noble captaine Cintius so vnder that he was glad lying prostrate before him to kisse his feete and by the yeare 1237 the Pope Gregorie the 9. had so cursed king Henry the 3 king here of EnglaÌ„d that he was glad to currie fauour with him to receiue a Legat of his called Cardinal Otho meeting him at the sea side that in most lowly maner bowing downe his head in low curtesie towards his knees And though he yeelded wonderfull submission to the next Pope Innocent the 4. yet he tooke of one Dauid Prince of Northwales 500. marks by the yeare to set him against the King of England exempted him his welshmen from their fealty which they had sworne vnto him before Most intolerable were the exactioÌ„s coÌ„modities that one way other the Popes for theÌ„selues their frends had out of EnglaÌ„d in Henry the 2. king Iohns HeÌ„ry the thirds time they exceeded ofteÌ„ as it appeareth in the stories the ancieÌ„t reuenues of the crowne wonderfully empouerished the land yet wheÌ„ these kings though in neuer so huÌ„ble maner at any time neuer so litle sought to stay these pillages oppressioÌ„s of the laÌ„d the Popes raged most extreamly against theÌ„ did theÌ„ what despite they could vntill they had their will Yea so intolerable hath beene their pride insoleÌ„cy against kings Emperors that they haue brought theÌ„ to lead their horses by the bridle to waite on theÌ„ on foot like lackies they riding like high mighty princes ouer theÌ„ they haue made theÌ„ faine to please theÌ„ withal to hold theÌ„ water to serue at their table And though their power bee not as it hath beene yet 〈◊〉 â—lice and will to trample Princes vnder their feete is as 〈◊〉 as euer it was and therefore not onely haue Pius 5. and Gregory the 13. by their cursed buls roared against our gratious soueraigne Lady Queene Elizabeth that now is thereby labouring her deposition but also both secretely and openly a number of waies they and their fauourits haue gone about both by opeÌ„ hostility and priuy conspiracies to bring that their wicked purpose to passe yea though it were by the shedding of her innocent
hauing the grace that was inspired in him by the holie ghost at his baptisme so long he doeth not sinne vnto eternall death d Yea the Apostle to the great comfort of them that are once truely regenerat teacheth in these places that such by the power of that grace shall be so preserued that they shall neuer sin as the vnregeneraâ— do with their whole man vnto death for the generatioÌ„ of God that is to saie the grace receiued by this holy sacrament doeth so defend him that the Deuill cannot persecute him to death being not able to preuaile against him and as long as this good seede which is the word of God doeth dwell in him he cannot sinne and if he did sinne the seed would no loÌ„ger remain in him The holie ghost saith * Sap. 1. the wisemaÌ„ shall refuse the hypocrite and dissembler and shall depart from the vaine and crafty cogitations and therefore the grace of God and sinne can not dwell togither nor we ought not thinke S. Iohns wordes strange in that he saieth that he that is borne of God doeth not sinne for it is as much to say as that one can not serue two masters and that he that serueth God can not serue the Deuill For. S. Paul saieth * 1. Cor. 10. You cannot assist at the table of God and of the Deuill altogether for what communication is there betweene iustice and iniquity or betweene Iesus Christ and Belial And hee that doeth loue this world declareth himselfe an enemie vnto God And a little before he had saied he that doeth commit sinne is the sonne of the Deuill the which doeth not affirme that a sinner cannot be the sonne of God if he repent and doe penance but in the meane while a If this assertion be true â—â—en as often as the regenerate either actually sinneth or hath but a minde to sinne he is not the childe of God I would gladly know theÌ„ h w often the authour hath coÌ„tinued a moreâ—h the child of God togither or any man else he that is in actuall sinne or hath a minde to doe euill is as then not the sonne of God but the sonne of the Deuill The good tree doeth not beare ill fruite for although the fruit doe rot or perish vpon the tree that corruption doeth not proceede of the tree but of the wormes birdes or of some other kinde of vermine and therefore when they say that by the fruit we shall knowe the tree and by the workes the faith this ought to be vnderstood when the fruite doeth ripe in season and that it hath the naturall humour and property of the tree And in a man that he haue the influeÌ„ce of the true faith not otherwise for euen as the rotten fruit hanging vpon the tree doeth digresse nothing from the good stocke euen so the ill workes of vs that are Christians ought not to staine our holy and Catholique religion b Thus we also answere the obiection that you make against our religion froÌ„ the lewd liues that you see in some which seeme to be of our profession It is a good defence for you you thinke why should you not graunt â— then so to be to vs For the corruption of our ill fruites coÌ„meth of our selues and not of our religion the which doeth defende vs from doing that we doe I meane to sweare to blaspheme to commit adulterie to doe anie man wrong or to offend God anie waie He that doeth desire then by the fruit to know whither the tree of our Religion bee good hee ought not to bende his eies to looke vpon the rotten fruit as if that were sufficient to disproue the goodnesse of the tree but let him looke vpon the good fruites c You shall finde that you farre oueâ—shot your se fe in your reckoning when you compare indeed their religion exp essed in their writiâ—gs with yours such are all the Doctours aswell of the Greeke as Latin church so manie good Emperours and vertuous Kinges Princes Dukes and Earles which haue raigned in France Spaine Germany and England and ouer all the worlde and haue died in the faith leauing their workes to beare witnes of their good fruites d Many Kings Quâ—enes Nobles and others of our religion haue done these things also The which haue builded so manie faire hospitals to helpe releeue the poore so many goodly Colledges to entertaine fatherles children at their bookes so manie foundations and workes for the common wealth and that haue builded so manie sumptuous e The first pulling of them dowâ—e here in England came euen from your Cardinals and great bishops vnder the pretence therwith to found colledges and so hauing giuen the king an example wheâ— he was disposed to follow it they easily consented indeed the abhominaâ—ions therin committed was their ouerthrow Abbeies and houses of Religion the which you with your godlie zeale haue not onely robbed and spoiled but that that is more odious you haue pulled them cleane downe to deface the memorie of our ancesters to acquite all these which are notable monuments you brag of the good deedes that your good Christians doe which are much like vnto the gaines of those that vse to cog at dise for although they win much it is neuer seene or like the Iewes which to colour their horrible crueltie in putting our sauiour vniustly to death they weÌ„t bought with the monie that they gaue to Iudas a field to bury the dead k As deepe and grounded papists were lickorish of Abbey lands as any other and as greedily and securely they enioy them still amongst vs. Cardinall Woolsey and the Bishop of Rochester your great Martyr first began that course here And so you hauing robbed spoiled froÌ„ the religious houses and Abbeies more then you are able to restore you thinke to acquite it al with giuing a little to the poore No no these deuises are but vaine if by the fruit the tree be knowen as Christ saieth let them that haue anie iudgement looke vpon the fruit of our trees then iudge whither they be good or no. The XXXIIII Chapter PArtly in the former Chapter but more plainly in this you shew that you vnderstand by the trees that Christ spake of good Religion and bad But if you view the place you will at least I am sure you should rather thereby vnderstaÌ„d the persons of men effectually called as I haue saied or not called at all or at least yet vneffectually called that sound religion is one of the principall fruits that he meant should grow vpoÌ„ the former to discerne him from the later For his scope was not there to teach vs how to discerne religions but how to discerne the children of God from the children of sathan And thus it will proue that the sence of this prouerbe will not proue hard at all to vs to digest but to you who what shew soeuer you caÌ„ make with
where I rest O most beautifull amongst all women follow thou the path that thy flocke hath made before thee setting thy tabernacle or thy lodge hard by the tabernacle of thy Shepheards If wee well note and vnderstand this answere it will learne vs that that shall suffice to keepe vs from running euer astray The sense is this O thou Christian which art troubled in thy conscience not knowing because of so many heresies which way thou shalt go or how thou shalt discerne the true religion from other false doctrine take my counsaile the which is to follow step by step the flocke that went before thee If that a thousand or two thousaÌ„d sheep run ouer a plaine those that come afterward doe not they knowe wel the path that is made before them Doe not they discerne the way that the first went Yes surely although there be no Shepheard to guide them And if thou doest answere that this doeth not suffice for I doe see diuerse pathes I see the path of the Caluinistes Cant. 1. the path of the Lutherans and the path of those of the Roman Church but yet doe not I knowe which flocke I should choose To this I answere thus set thy Tabernacle by the Tabernacle of the shepheardes and of thy Pastours I meane that a Then we may not leane to yours for this can it neuer doe I would haue thee to leane to that flocke that can leade thee from age to age and from yeare to yeare vnto the crosse of Iesus Christ on the which hee was nailed at noone daies and there it is where thou oughtest to quiet thy selfe and thy conscience Then to beginne If thou doest aske the Caluinistes Where is the true faith the which as they saie doeth consist in the true preaching of the worde of the Lorde and in the administration of the Sacramentes according to the institution of Iesus Christ they will answere It is at Geneua the Lutherans will answere at Wittemberge and the Anabaptistes will answere at MonasteriuÌ„ the Vbiquitaries they wil answer at â—ubing and the Trinitaries at Petricone and so consequentlie of the rest And then pursue and aske further where it was twentie yeares agone They will saie in the saied cities but if thou come to demaund of them where it was an hundred or two hundred yeares agone if they are ashamed anie thing at all to lye they wil not answere at all for there is none of them that can denie but that Luther who began to preach his new Gospell the yeare b This is a monstrous and impudent vntruth for constantly and generally wee say and proue by the Scripture that our religioÌ„ hath plentifull warrant both in the olde newe Testament 1517 was the first beginner of all these troubles the father of al those that teach this reformed Religion Then is it farre from that place where thy frend was nailed at middaie or where hee was crucified aboue 1500. yeares agone before the newe Church was dreampt of And therefore thou maiest easilie perceaue that this flocke cannot leade thee to the place that thou doest desire and consequentlie that is not the flock that wee should followe Then let vs come vnto the Roman Church and demaund where was this flocke an hundred yeares agone They will answere thee in France Spaine England Germanie and so ouer all Christendome And of thou aske where it was 500. yeares agone c They wil say so therefore it was so they will saie In the saied places And a thousand yeares agone likewise and likewise a thousand and fiue hundred yeares agone This flocke then will not leaue thee by the waie as the others doe but it will leade thee vnto the verie time of the death and passion of d This is also most vntrue for the popish doctrine from point to point wee are able to shew when it began and how it hath growen by degrees to that which it is not in a thousand years after Christ Christ by continuance of oâ—â— doctrine and by succession of pastours which Salomon doeth call the Tabernacle of the sheepe heardes And therefore this is the place where thou must seeke thy Tabernacle and quiet thy conscience to the ende that thou bee not a lost sheepe and that thou bee not readie to turne at euerie blast of new doctrine e None such coggers as Papistes in giuing the sence of the Scriptures who make not them the rule of their practise but their practise how mutable so euer the rule to giue the sence thereof by that our new coggers of the Scriptures doe set forth to deceaue the simple sheepe The IIII. Chapter TO this fourth chapter I answere that with Salomon to finde out the true Church of God wee as well as you exhorte Christes sheepe to followe the tracte of the flocke of Christ and to feede by the tentes or Tabernacles of his sheepheardes that so they maie bee ledde on and vp to Christ himselfe But then forasmuch as wee haue learned before by that which hath beene noted in the former Chapter concerning the fashion of heretiques especiallie seeing the same confirmed in you and other heretiques and apostataes in these our daies that euerie flocke is not Christes flocke that will pretende so to bee nor they alwaies his true sheepeheardes that are so accounted wee wish euerie one that wilfullie is not disposed to suffer himselfe to bee seduced by those that falsely thus pretende to learne to bee able as Saint Iohn hath taught all true Christians in the first Epistle and fourth verse to trie the spirites whether they be of God or no which they shall and may doe in trying both the flockes and their sheepheardes by the infallible worde of Christ contained in the Canonicall Scriptures For Christes sheepe will heare and obey his voice Ioh. 10. which vndoubtedlie and sufficiently is sounded in the written worde For the Scriptures are able to make a man wise vnto saluation through the faith which is in Christ Iesus For the whole Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to improue to correct and to instruct in righteousnesse that the man of God may be absolute being made perfit vnto all good workes 2. Tim. 3. And therefore his true sheepeheardes will feede his sheepe with the sincere milke of this worde because that is it which they must desire as new borne babes doe milke that they may growe vp thereby if so be they haue tasted how bountifull the Lord is 1. Pet. 2. And because that is it according whereunto he that speaketh must speake because it is writen if any maÌ„ speake let him talke as the words of God 1. Pe. 4. By which rule if the flockes and sheepeheardes whom wee followe bee tryed they shal bee founde the sheepe whose tracte is to bee followed and the sheepeheardes by whose tentes is safe feeding And contrarilie by this rule your flockes and sheepeheardes come to the tryall of it when you
you would make it But be it though you only say both proue neither of theÌ„ against theÌ„ that they held it in the worst sence now stil that also as you say in certaine other smaller things they hold otherwise then was held by Chrysostom Cyrill Basil Athanasius yet I say will staÌ„d vnto it that as daÌ„gerous heresies mo in nuÌ„ber be held of your own coÌ„pany against the truth of Christs person office theÌ„ they hold in all in far more greater points of weight are you gone froÌ„ the ancient fathers that haue beene in the latin church wtin the first 600. yeares theÌ„ they haue done froÌ„ theirs And therefore in the meane time whiles you will ioyne this issue with vs vntil you haue disproued this my assertioÌ„ by the same reason you reiect their succession will we perseuere in reiecting yours Now whereas you secondly imagine that we labour to weakeÌ„ ouerthrow the force of your argument taken from succession by laiâ—ng out the lewde liues negligence in doing of their duties in many of those pastours Bishops of whose succession you boast true it is that prouoked by your too too great brags of your personall succession by your immoderate railing against some of our pastours and ministers whom yet you cannot staine but with false and maliciously deuised tales sometimes some of vs haue beene occasioned to cast your owne dunge into your faces And we being able as wee are euen out of your owne stories so iustly to lay such a number of most notorious thinges to the charge of verie many of your greatest Prelates and the matter being notorious that fewe or none of your Popes and Archprelates euer take it vpon them by preaching to feede Gods people which is the principall duety of a Bishop we thinke still that that which we say and obiect against you in this behalfe may iustly cause you to be ashamed of such fathers so to cease both your bragge of succeeding them your railing against vs. To disproue the force of this our allegation you dispute the matter as though we went about to proue that the succession of trueth hath ceased in the Church because we thus obiect against the persons of many of your predecessours whereas we most constantly holde beleeue that it hath alwaies continued and that though you grow ten times worse then any that hath beene before you it shall stil vnto the worldes ende But withall we tell you it hath beene continued by others and not by those wicked and negligent pastours and predecessours of yours that we speake against For as their liues were deuilish so was their doctrine Antichristian as yours their childrens is Too too foolish therefore is it that you write that wee doe no lesse offende God in laying forth the liues of sundry of your Popes thinking thereby to ouerthrow the succession of the catholique Ecclesiasticall faith then if one should go about to ouerthrow the promise of Christ to the Patriarches because of the bad liues of diuerse of their successours For we holde that the Succession of the Catholique faith hath continued and will to verify that promise of Christ Matthew 16. though neuer so many of your popes go to the deuil Neither did we euer in laying forth their most filthy liues thinke thereby to ouerthrow the Succession of faith for we neuer tooke them to haue any society or coniunction with it since they became such But you still according to your old woont taking it for giuen which shal neuer be offred you that their personall succession and the catholique trueth went alwaies togither which we doe most earnestly deny imagined that wee could not speake against the one but that therein also we sought to ouerthrow the other when as we are perswaded that of al other persons vnder heauen your Popes for this long time haue beene Sathans most forcible meanes to ouerthrow both the Apostolique trueth and Catholique Church Wherefore you see you might wel haue spared your paynes in the greatest part of this Chapter and so let any that hath witte iudge whither it be not great folly for any man to be so simple as to seeke to be the childe of such fathers as neither had honestie nor any soundnesse of religion as many of your Popes for any thing that you haue yet saied to the contrary haue beene whose children yet how bad soeuer you would haue men to be The VIII Chapter VPon Moises Chaire there sitteth sayeth our Sauiour Christ who not the godliest meÌ„ of the world but the Scribes Pharises doe that they saie but not that that they doe But if our new Gospellers had beene in those daies they would haue tolde Christ that his commandement was not to be obserued because the liues of Anna and Caiphas were not correspondent vnto those of Moises Aaron for the first came to the vocation of priesthood being called of God but the last attained to it by the vocation of their a As many of yours doe or by worse means or else your owne frends bely theÌ„ purses and yet notwithstanding rather then our Sauiour would breake this harmonie of the misticall bodie of the Church he was not onely content to permit that Caiphas should execute his office although hee was vnworthy as one that came to it by Simonie but rather he did confirme his pontificat with the gift of the Spirit of Prophesying with the which he was b That is grosse blasphemy as fullie inspired as euer was Dauid Esay or any of the rest and all to teach vs that that I haue alreadie saied I meane that the Ecclesiastical order the administration of the Sacraments doe not consist in the good or euill liues of the pastours but onelie of God and of his word interpreted by them As touching that that appertaineth to our health God hath no regard to the life of the magistrate temporal or ecclesiasticall for he can aswell serue him with an euill person to doe good to the common wealth as of a good as the godlie prophesies of the wicked Balaam doe well witnesse Num. 24. And here is to be noted that when we talke of the succession of Bishops and of the doctrine continuing in the Church we doe not meane onely to talke of the c Indeede you doe wisely to call for helpe of others for otherwise the necke of your successioÌ„ hath often bene shamefully broken Popes but of all the Bishops and other hauing Ecclesiastical charges not onelie at Rome but thorow al other places where the true preaching and right administration of the Sacraments be vsed And therefore you doe pretend in vaine to proue that the aboue mentioned succession hath beene interrupted by the discention of Popes Antipopes and by the Ciuil warres that haue bene at Rome in times past For although that the Sea of Rome was vacant for a time the Chaires of Bishops in France Spaine England and
Christ doth say He that hath sent me is with me and he hath not left me alone And therefore Theodorus his fellowes did conclude that there was no more vnion betweene the diuinity humanity of our Sauiour then there is betweene God vs. Of the which * c 1. Cor. 5. S. Paul doeth speake where he saieth hee that is ioined to God c Well quoted you would haue saied 6. is made one spirit with him The XXVI Chapter IT doeth suffise that one maie see by these fellowes how soone one that is ill disposed may alleage scripture in corrupt sense to maintain such heresies as these the which I will not staie to confute for thankes be to God they doe not raigne now for they haue perished and their authours a This is but a blind Prophetes dreame as you shall and your followers if yee doe not repent in time And besides this our Doctours haue fullie answered b It is wel yet that you wil confesse thus much by textes of Scriptures these olde heresies as you maie see in al the ancient ecclesiasticall writers and confuted them not onely with pithie reasons but vvith the true worde of God and the authoritie of diuerse generall councels And if I haue noted here some part both of their authours and of them to shew how they did seeke to confirme their damnable opinions I doe it only to warne the simple people that they should not so soone giue eare to false Pastours which haue nothing in their mouthes but the holie scripture and the pure word of God couering the cuppes of their poison with the gold and pretious stones which they haue taken from the image of the eternall king to paint those subtill Foxes that will leade them all to damnation And therefore in the name of God I doe desire those that are not much vsed to reade the Scriptures nor to heare how the Church and the doctours doe expound the hard places a So doe we but not to driue theÌ„ from reading theÌ„ but to shew them hat they must be read and searcâ—ed diligently to beware how they reade them for feare of falling into errour taking onelie the letter which manie times hath a contrarie sence to that that is outwardlie writen For if so manie men of great learning excellent vnderstanding haue found such great rocks in this rough sea which haue manie times ouerthrowen their shippes how dangerous then must it needes bee vnto those that will take it in hande so doubtfull a nauigation hauing little skill or none at all But as for you my masters of the contrarie side you can saile with all tides all windes giuing the gouernance of the shippe or the guiding of the sterne without consideration b This is a meere slander to all kinde of people We haue at this daie in France I will not saie in England manie that haue the holie spirit Interpreters of the scriptures And for sooth what are they Mary Pedlers Coblers Tanners Bankrouts Runnegates such others which hauing no other liuing c Here the authour bewrayeth himselfe rather to haue beene an English man then a French For when this should be wrâ—ten there were no Lord Bishops in France to make such but papists sue to my Lord Bishop and hee makes them ministers beeing not one of them but hath the holie spirite d All this is but slanderous rayling lying for we doe not say or thinke thus but cry vpon Bishop that they admit no suc vnfit meâ— and we call vpon such rather humbly to content them selues with the places of earners then to presume without sufficient knowledge to be teachers for assoone as they can saie the Lorde and raile vpon the Pope the Bishops and all the learned men that haue beene in times past Oh these are great doctours no place of scripture to them is hard all the ancieÌ„t doctors were men the generall councels did erre I knowe that you doe maintaine your opinion with the saying of * e John 8. Christ alleaging it as other hereticks haue done the which is That the heauenly father hath hid these high and profound thinges from the great Clerkes and hath reuealed them vnto the meeke and humble This is true but it ought to be vnderstoode to the humble and meeke of spirit and not to those which trust so much to their owne wittes beeing puffed vp with arrogant ignorance that they thinke to know more in three daies reading then the doctours could in fiftie yeares studie faming themselues to be like the Apostles as if that God gouerned by their appetites did send euerie moneth the feast of Pentecost c Mat. 11. you should haue saied The XXII XXIII XXIIII XXV XXVI Chapter NEither our owne Doctors nor any thing els that yet you haue saied for all your great brag haue any force either to disproue that lawfulnes of our vocation or to condemne our religioÌ„ Neither is it true that we stand so much vpon our extraordinary calling as you would insinuate to your reader For we tel you that if you take ordinary calling in your owne sence if ther be any good at al in that Wickliffe Iohn Hus Luther Bucer and the rest that haue bene the first formost in these late daies in detecting the errours of the papacy and in renuing the light of the gospel had that kinde of calling And as for the rest since they haue had a better ordinary calling theÌ„ that in that it hath bene more agreeing to the order of calling by the Apostles and primatiue Church But in that to expresse what you meane by our extraordinary calling you say that therby you meane a calling without commission of the pastours and bishops c. I perceiue that therefore it is that you charge many of our ministers to preach the gospel extraordinarily because howsoeuer otherwise they had before they tooke vpoÌ„ them any dealing in the ministry the ordinary calling allowed of in the reformed Churches of Christ where they were to exercise the same they tooke not first any of your popish orders at the hands of some of your popish lord bishops after your popish maner In which sort I graunt you many of our ministers haue an extraordinary calling but then I say vnto you againe that their extraordinary calling hauing an eie to that order that Christ and his Apostles left in this case vnto the Church is more ordinary then the ordinary calling that you speake of And therefore though their calling of late daies here amongst vs hath not bene according to your order that they haue neither beene chosen by your pastours nor had imposition of hands of your Lord bishops yet you cannot say truely that any of them take vpon them extraordinarily that is as you expouÌ„d it without the commission of the pastours and bishops to preach the Gospel Name the man time and place you caÌ„not when and where any that is
answered by texts of scripture these old heresies by you before mētioned For euen therby you maie see that though heretickes neuer so much misaleage scripture that yet the true ministers of the Lord may must alleage them euen to answere to cōfute their heresies by And therfore it stādeth stil firme that if we by alleaging of thē aright cā proue you heretickes your opiniōs which we striue against heresies which no further then we can doe we neuer craue anie credit to be giuē vs whatsoeuer you would seeme to haue saied to beat vs frō alleaging of thē that it appears that therby both we our doings and religion are sufficiētly iustified both before God and mā These misalegers of scripture which in al these Chapters you haue spoken of you saie you will not staie to confute for two causes because they raigne not now and their heresies togither with thē the authours therof are perished because the anciēt doctors haue cōfuted them as you saie but indeed the reason was that you were loth to occupie either your selfe or reader in so profitable a matter It semeth you tooke more delight in shewing how the scripture might be misalleaged to fortifie heresie then how rightlie alleaged to cōfute the same and therfore you could find leasure to stay 4. or 5 Chap. in that but not at al vpon this Besides if it be true that you haue reported if you had wel remēbred your selfe you would not so generally haue saied that they were al perished For read your Chap. ouer again and you shal finde that therin you haue spoken of some that are not so quite dead and perished but that euen in these daies they need to be cōfuted But you say that with you haue here noted either of them or of their heresies and their alleaging of scripture for the sāe you haue done it onely to giue warning to simple people that they should not too rashly giue ear to false pastors which haue nothing in their mouthes but the holy scripture and the pure word of God so couering the cups of their poison with the gold and pretious stones which they haue taken frō the image of the eternal king to paint those subtil foxes that will lead them al to dānatiō If you had indeed done it onely to this end you had not bene to be misliked but in deed and trueth you haue done it to breed in men a carelesnes and negligence in searching the scriptures and a cōtempt of alleaging the same to determine the cōtrouersies betwixt vs and you Otherwise thinke as you speake and we are ready to ioine with you both in this also in that which you adde in wishing the simple and vnlearned in reading the harde places to take heed they fal not into error by taking onelie the letter c. For if great learned men thereby haue bene endangered how much more may such But surely this is rather a caue at meet and needful for you thē for vs if we go no further but to your peeuish taking of the letter of hoc est corpus meū contrary to al sound rules of right interpreting as I haue shewed before Now wheras hereupon you take occasion according to your maner to ieere at our ministry as though in Frāce Englād especially it were generally vnlearned and consisted of the basest and most contemptible of the people you are worthy of smal answere your speech there about is so apparētly false slāderous For God be thāked in both kingdoms you your selues are enforced to feele to your whole kingdoms griefe and deadly wound in the end I doubt not that there are great store of learned ministers and bishops far other maner of men then you haue named And therfore your own conscience could not but tel you vnles it were seared with a hoate iron that they doe in neither kingdōe cōmit the guiding of the sterne wtout cōsideratiō to al kinde of people In both places both their doctrine publicke order of their churches aimeth at a learned godly ministry wherof if in some particulers they faile which in so great a multitude and compasse altogither cannot bee auoided the faulte is to bee laied in the particuler men by whose negligence or corruption it so commeth to passe and not in either of the churches which would gladly that no such fault should at all be committed Howbeit I dare say howsoeuer you ruffle in your tearms of pedlers Coblers Tanners Bankerouts and raunagates and say that such be our interpreters of the scriptures and that we hold euery such one once admitted by a bishop to be a minister to haue the spirit and to be great doctours to whom no place of scripture is too hard because they can rayle of the Pope say al the ancient doctours were men and the generall councels did erre that yet you can neither proue our ministers to be such nor that for these balde reasons wee thinke any so qualified as you write It pleased you but in this to shew your spitefull and malicious spirit but alas who will thinke doe you what you can that you indeed mislike a base and vnlearned ministry who not onely haue held and yet haue as great cause so to doe stil as euer that ignorance is the mother of deuotiō but also vpon that ground haue all your Church seruice in a tongue that the people shall not vnderstand and content your selues for the most part with such priests as can scarsely rightly read the same Truely if there had bene but a crumme of right modesty shamefastnes in you knowing as you doe the notorious basenes grossenes and ignorance of your ordinary masse-priestes you would neuer haue taken this pleasure that it seemeth you did in thus railing on defacing and slandering of ours Indeed by that saying of Christ Matth. 11. by you quoted Ioh. 8. when we see what grace and giftes of knowledge God oftentimes amongst vs bestoweth vpon such in the meane time beholding in what great blindnes and errour a number of great Rabbins and doctours amongst you walke on still we take occasion as Christ hath taught vs to giue thankes to our heauenly father that hath reuealed these thinges vnto babes which yet your great wise men and men of vnderstanding see not But you would not haue vs by this place to defend that such meane men may come to be cunning and skilfull in the Scriptures Your reasons are two for that other heretiques haue so alleadged it and for that this is to be vnderstood of the humble in spirit whereas these men of ours trust to their owne wittes and are puft vp with arrogant ignorance c. You thought good yet neither to tell vs what heretikes when nor where howsoeuer you knowe I trust that men must not shame wel to vse that Scripture that heretiques haue abused Concerning your other reason I graūt you the place is to be vnderstood onely of the humble and meeke in
last iudgement and yet here he findeth no third sort or place for them in the meane time no more then in the other But he was not very constant herein For in his 21 booke of the City of God cap 26. he saieth if in this meane time betwixt death the iudgemēt the souls of the departed be saied to suffer such a fire or there onely or there and here or therefore here and not there a fire he saieth of transitory tribulation burning vp their worldly smaller faultes I reproue it not because perhaps it is true de fide operibus cap. 14. hee saieth likewise whither in this life onely men suffer these thinges or after this life such iudgements doe follow them as I thinke saieth he this sence of Paul is not against the trueth namely to vnderstand him of the fire of tribulation or triall And in his Enchiridion cap. 68. he saieth that the fire that the Apostle speaketh of 1. Cor. 3. is the fire of tribulation through which both kinde of builders there spokē of must passe and tha such a thing may be after this life it is not incredible whither it be so or no it may be a questiō cap. 69. The like he hath of the 8 questions of Dulcitius in his answere to the first of them wherein it appeareth that he was very vncertaine whither there were or no any such fire of tribulation after this life any where before the last iudgement to purge men of some kinde of sinnes but what these sinnes were that staied men from going to heauen straight vpon their death whereof after they might get some releife and ease he saieth it was harde to finde and perillous to define and as for his owne part he confesseth that though to that time he had laboured to finde out what they were yet he could not lib. 21. de ciuit Dei Cap. 27. And how dangerous it was and is to fall into such doubts we may see in him For in the 24 Chapter of the same booke it appeareth that vpon this supposition that there might bee some such purging fire as he somtimes doubted of he moueth this sound question whither they shall bee saued whom the daie of iudgement shall finde vnpurged with this fire which yet might haue beene purged with it if it had not come so soone and he resolueth that with an other doubtful imagination that they suffering for a time some pains shal haue mercy as he thought not be condemned to hel and in this saied 20 booke of the City of God he hath an opinion cap. 25. that in the last iudgement before sentence bee pronounced some shall passe thorow purging paines And yet in the third question to Dulcitius he determineth it as a flat trueth to be beleeued that in the last iudgement there shall be no delay but immediatly vpon the second comming of Christ it shall be as we are taught Matth. 25. Hereby we see how wattering and inconstant euen famous learned men become when they once wander without the light of the word after the discourses and reasonings of the wit of man How much better had it bene for Augustin in these questions to remember the rule and to haue followed that which he gaue others in such cases as I shewed before in the cōclusion of the former point out of his second booke de pecca meritis remiss Cap. 36. Yet in none of these places or else where can I finde that he once dreamed of such a purgatory fire as the papists teach which should be materiall and of the same nature that the fire of hell is saue onely that it is not eternal as that Wherefore I conclude of him as of Origen these things considered the arguments are like to be very doughty and strong that are brought from any mention that Augustine maketh of purgation after this life either to proue popish purgatory or praier to relieue the soules of them that bee there And euen as I haue saied of these two so might I likewise of most of the ancient fathers from whence they would seeme at any time to fetch countenance for this their purpose they are so variable wauering and inconstant in their speeches most of them about this matter but this I hope is and will be sufficient to proue the weakenesse of Albins arguments from these two to iustifie his praying for the dead because these two in some of the places quoted by him when he can get them to come no nearer the point haue in some sort spoken of purging of men after this life in paines Now therefore likewise I am to shew how weake there arguments be drawen frō some mention found in some of the fathers of some kinde of remembring the dead in praiers Which easily may be conceiued if we vnderstād that first there may be an honourable mētion or remēbrāce made of those that are dead in the Lord without any praying for them at al to shew our thankefulnes to God for the good exāple they left vs both of liuing holily dying Christianly the better to prouoke others by so remēbring of thē to imitate their good example and lastly so to nourish in our selues the hope of a ioiful resurrection and to testifie our loue and Christian affection towardes them so departed which questionles was all that was done a long time at the keeping of the memories of their deathes or at anie time else and of this very well may both Tertullian and Cyprian be vnderstoode in the places here quoted by Albin as I will shewe anon From such a fashion of mentioning the deade in our prayers euery simple man may see popish praying for them hath no countenance at all Secondly we ought to be aduertised that forasmuch as they that are dead in the Lord haue not yet their consummation nor shall not before the last day that in that respect also for such of whom we fully are perswaded that they so died that they haue their part in the promisse thereof praiers may be made by the godly aliue very lawfully And therefore thus we graunt the ancient fathers might pray for the dead and thus we our selues as appeareth here in England by the forme of praiers appointed to be vsed at the buriall of the dead refuse not to pray that we with those brethrē and sisters of ours that depart hence in the Lord may haue our perfect consummation and blisse at the last day in the generall resurrection And yet of praiers thus made for such onely by them or vs neither popish praying for the dead nor purgatory haue any ground Lastly it is euident that many of the ancient fathers of abūdāce of loue towards their frendes departed whose soules they were fully perswaded were in rest and in ioy and felicity with the Lord in heauen as they shew euen in the very places when their praiers for them are set downe prayed yet vnto God for them Thus praied Nazianzē for his
euer those that are sanctified Heb. 10. that he is able to saue perfectly those that come vnto God by him He. 7. that as there is but one God so there is but one mediatour betwixt God and man the man Christ Iesus 1. Tim. 2. and that S. Paul most confidently tolde the Galathians that if with that opinion that the false Apostles had taught them they would be circumcised Christ should profit them nothing at all they were falne from grace Gal. 5. And yet notwithstanding the most cleare and plaine euidence of these scriptures and sundry other places to the like effect so giuen is the church of Rome that now is and hath beene a long time to spoile Christ of a great part of this special honor glory that is due vnto him that it can abide nothing in the world worse then that men should he driuen by the schoolemaster the law out of themselues quite in Christ fully and freely soly and wholy by faith to seeke for their iustification here and saluation hereafter And therefore in it that in the deepe policy of Sathan to blunt the edge of the law that it haue not this force to breake and make contrite the heart of man with the ougly sight of his owne infinite sinnes and punishments due vnto him for the same to driue him to hunger and thirst after that effectuall iustification and saluation offered vnto men by the gospell in Christ they teach that man hath free-will to good that concupiscence or the first motions to sinne rising in man not consented vnto are no sinne that many sinnes euen for their owne littlenes are veâ—iall that by good deedes man may satisfied God for his misdeedes that man may fulfill the law yea that man may haue workes of supererogation more then hee needes for his owne saluation and that men by their workes maie merit a great part of their owne saluation yea haue merits both before iustification flowing from their pure natural faculties and powers to prouoke GOD to thinke it congruum that is meete and conuenient that euen therefore hee should bestow his grace vpon them and after merits de condigno that eueÌ„ for their very worthines deserue an euerlasting reward of blisse at Gods hand both for themselues and others And when they would seeme to be come vnto Christ and to beleeue in him yet in no case wil they trust to him alone and that that hee hath done and still doeth for them but then his sufferinges and their owne his merits and their owne and their frendes his sacrifice and their owne in their masse his mediation and the mediation of Saints and angels and an hundreth things els euen childish and rediculous for the matter of saluation must be trusted vnto That it is thus all the world seeth and they themselues in printed bookes stand vpon it that it must be thus and that we are heretiques because we will not let them alone in thus apparelling themselues their frends and their toies with the spoiles of our Christ and so their very glory is their shame A Christ that is so base minded in the office of iustifying and sauing of mens soules thus to be iumbled and ioined with so many partners and helpers is a Christ of their owne deuising such an one doubtles as we can heare no news of either in old or new testameÌ„t And therefore out of all question they shall finde that whiles they run a madding after this fansied new Christ of their owne the old true Christ will profit them nothing at all and that they are quite fallen from grace No man whose eies God hath opened aright either to vnderstand the law or the gospel but seeing and knowing these things to be true of them he must needs thinke and bee resolued that popery is euen that mystery of iniquity that Saint Paul speaketh of 2. Thess 2. and that the papists be flat those flase teachers that Saint Peter speaketh of 2. Epistle chap. 3. Which priuily should bring in damnable heresies euen denying the Lorde that hath bought them and so bring vpon themselues swift damnation whom yet many should follow and by whom the way of trueth should bee euill spoken of c. It is needfull therefore I would thinke especialy considering how earnest Saint Peter is there to perswade men to shun such for vs to leaue them and forsake them as we haue the thing which in this behalfe we haue especially to mourne for is that we forsooke them no sooner Howbeit though the better to countenance their Church and religion and to proue vs in thus forsaking of them to haue brought in such a schism as he talketh of he would make thee christian reader beleeue that all the world were at vnity with them in their faith and false bragge as if thou readest the fourth chapter of my answere to Albine and the 11. 37. thou shalt most plainely see It seemeth the man was very impudent or very childishly ignoraÌ„t of histories that would thus write For who of any learning or reading is ignorant that not onely the Greeke church and other Easterne Churches some hundreth yeares before the time that he speaketh of brake of communion with them but that also euen here in these Westerne parts in France Bohemia here in England and elswher long before this time Petrus Valdus Iohn Wickliffe Iohn Hus Hierom of Prage had so many followers and pertakers against them and their abhominations that for all the tyranny and most sauage persecutions that they haue vsed to roote them out by from time to time that yet notwithstanding they haue continued doe will stil in one place or other maugre all their malice euen to recompence that whore of Babylon as shee hath deserued at their hands As for the variety of opinions amongst vs that he vpbraydeth vs withall it is an obiection that Iohn de Albine often harped vpon therefore which in answering of him I haue sufficiently I hope answered Only this therfore to yâ— I further say here that though they be more and greater then we like of yet they are nether so great nor many as these our aduersaries by amplifying of this obiectioÌ„ by multiplying of names would seeme to make theÌ„ nor yet in such points but that notwithstanding we all agree in the fundamentall most principal points of christiaÌ„ religion whereby we hope it will thorow Gods goodnes come to passe that we shall shortly also grow to vnity in the rest In the meane time sure I am that they whom by any reason he may say be of vs for our holding felowship and coÌ„munion togither in our confession of the christian faith are all amongst our selues at farre more vnity then such as he liketh of at far better vnity then they be or euer haue beene since they departed froÌ„ vs. As for the Anabaptists diuers others whom sometime they charge vs in this case also withall they know wel enough we