separation_n examine_v or_o a_o treatise_n wherein_o the_o ground_n for_o separation_n from_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n of_o england_n be_v weigh_v and_o find_v too_o light_a the_o practice_n prove_v to_o be_v not_o only_o unwarrantable_a but_o likewise_o so_o hurtful_a to_o the_o church_n that_o church-reformation_n can_v with_o any_o comfort_n go_v forward_o so_o long_o as_o such_o separation_n be_v tolerate_v also_o a_o humble_a request_n present_v to_o the_o congregational_a divine_n that_o since_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o and_o the_o classical-divines_a be_v very_o small_a they_o will_v please_v to_o strike_v in_o with_o the_o classical-divines_a in_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n before_o the_o inundation_n of_o these_o corrupt_a opinion_n have_v destroy_v both_o ordinance_n and_o religion_n by_o gi._n firmin_n minister_n to_o the_o church_n in_o shalford_n in_o essex_n 1_o cor._n 1.10_o now_o i_o beseech_v you_o brethren_z by_o the_o name_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n that_o you_o all_o speak_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o schism_n among_o you_o judicabit_fw-la autem_fw-la &_o eosqui_fw-la schismata_fw-la operantur_fw-la qui_fw-la sunt_fw-la immanes_a non_fw-la habentes_fw-la dei_fw-la dilectionem_fw-la suamque_fw-la utilitatem_fw-la potius_fw-la considerantes_fw-la quà m_fw-la unitatem_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la propter_fw-la modicas_fw-la &_o quaslibet_fw-la causas_fw-la magnum_fw-la &_o gloriosum_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la conscindunt_fw-la &_o dividunt_fw-la etc._n etc._n irenae_n l._n 4._o c._n 62._o cavenda_fw-la sunt_fw-la autem_fw-la fratres_fw-la dilectissimi_fw-la non_fw-la solum_fw-la quae_fw-la sunt_fw-la aperta_fw-la &_o manifesta_fw-la sed_fw-la &_o astutae_fw-la fraudis_fw-la subtilitate_fw-la fallentia_fw-la etc._n etc._n haeteses_fw-la invenit_fw-la &_o schismata_fw-la quibus_fw-la subverteret_fw-la fidem_fw-la veritatem_fw-la corrumperet_fw-la scinderet_fw-la unitatem_fw-la cypr._n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccles_n london_n print_v by_o r._n i._n for_o stephen_n bowtell_n at_o the_o bible_n in_o popes-head-alley_n 1652._o the_o content_n there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n pag._n 1_o there_o be_v a_o true_a gospel-ministry_n in_o england_n pag._n 4._o the_o ground_n of_o separation_n must_v be_v either_o in_o the_o ministry_n worship_n congregation_n or_o place_n of_o meeting_n p._n 12_o the_o ordination_n of_o the_o minister_n by_o bishop_n can_v be_v no_o ground_n for_o separation_n p._n 22_o there_o can_v be_v no_o ground_n in_o the_o worship_n be_v sing_v of_o psalm_n be_v here_o touch_v p._n 32_o there_o can_v be_v no_o ground_n in_o the_o congregation_n though_o many_o wicked_a person_n be_v there_o nor_o in_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n p._n 39_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o separatist_n what_o they_o will_v have_v be_v set_v down_o and_o answer_v return_v as_o 1_o they_o will_v have_v minister_n lay_v down_o their_o former_a call_n and_o join_v with_o they_o than_o they_o it_o may_v be_v will_v elect_v they_o and_o ordain_v they_o where_o this_o question_n be_v handle_v p._n 46_o quest_n whether_o election_n only_o give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o minister_n and_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n p._n 50_o whether_o the_o people_n have_v power_n to_o ordain_v p._n 70_o whether_o the_o fraternity_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n brief_o touch_v p._n 73_o 2_o they_o will_v have_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n which_o they_o call_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n p._n 81_o 3_o no_o church-member_n but_o visible_a saint_n p._n 82_o 4_o power_n in_o admission_n and_o excommunication_n p._n 83_o 5_o liberty_n to_o prophesy_v p._n 84_o 6_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n p._n 88_o how_o it_o appear_v that_o church-reformation_n can_v with_o comfort_v proceed_v so_o long_o as_o the_o separation_n be_v tolerate_v p._n 91_o the_o separatist_n be_v no_o such-friend_n to_o the_o civil_a power_n as_o be_v pretend_v p._n 94_o the_o question_n propound_v to_o the_o separatist_n in_o reference_n to_o their_o separation_n p._n 97_o the_o agreement_n and_o difference_n with_o and_o between_o the_o classical_a and_o congregationall_a divine_n be_v review_v their_o agreement_n find_v to_o be_v many_o their_o difference_n very_o few_o p._n 100_o whence_o a_o humble_a request_n be_v present_v to_o the_o congregationall_a divine_n speedy_o to_o join_v with_o the_o classical_a divine_n back_v with_o seven_o reason_n p._n 108_o to_o the_o reverend_a the_o minister_n of_o london_n the_o author_n of_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o ministry_n etc._n etc._n print_v 1650._o father_n and_o brethren_n the_o goodness_n of_o god_n manifest_v of_o old_a to_o england_n in_o cause_v the_o sun_n of_o his_o gospel_n to_o rise_v early_o upon_o this_o nation_n and_o to_o find_v such_o entertainment_n in_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o supreme_a power_n that_o it_o be_v the_o first_o nation_n that_o ever_o receive_v the_o gospel_n with_o the_o countenance_n of_o public_a authority_n have_v the_o first_o christian_a king_n that_o ever_o be_v be_v know_v to_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n his_o goodness_n in_o these_o latter_a day_n since_o he_o take_v from_o our_o neck_n the_o anti-christian_n yoke_n have_v be_v also_o wonderful_a honour_v the_o minister_n of_o his_o gospel_n with_o such_o holiness_n learning_n ministerial_a ability_n and_o success_n in_o their_o labour_n in_o convert_v many_o and_o set_v up_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n in_o this_o nation_n that_o he_o have_v not_o honour_v any_o nation_n more_o nay_o without_o pride_n it_o may_v be_v speak_v his_o free_a grace_n have_v not_o honour_v any_o nation_n so_o much_o in_o these_o respect_n as_o this_o english_a nation_n but_o now_o in_o our_o day_n the_o ministry_n which_o god_n have_v thus_o honour_v be_v as_o much_o dishonour_v and_o that_o by_o such_o who_o can_v but_o acknowledge_v their_o own_o mouth_n have_v speak_v it_o that_o what_o spiritual_a good_a they_o have_v receive_v it_o be_v wrought_v by_o the_o ministry_n and_o now_o we_o find_v scorn_v deride_v separate_v from_o the_o ministry_n and_o many_o not_o so_o much_o as_o step_v over_o their_o threshold_n to_o hear_v they_o who_o be_v the_o first_o instrument_n of_o their_o good_a if_o they_o have_v any_o as_o some_o we_o hope_v have_v and_o yet_o the_o minister_n be_v the_o same_o they_o be_v before_o yea_o some_o repent_v that_o ever_o they_o bestow_v so_o much_o pain_n and_o time_n to_o follow_v the_o minister_n as_o one_o that_o live_v but_o four_o or_o five_o mile_n from_o dedham_n have_v say_v he_o repent_v that_o he_o follow_v that_o eminent_a servant_n of_o god_n mr._n rogers_n so_o much_o to_o hear_v his_o preach_n while_o i_o observe_v these_o thing_n and_o consider_v into_o what_o a_o sad_a condition_n we_o be_v fall_v and_o read_v over_o your_o vindication_n in_o which_o i_o see_v a_o holy_a meek_a and_o true_a christian_a spirit_n breathe_v call_v upon_o the_o congregationall_a man_n to_o join_v with_o you_o certain_o i_o think_v that_o book_n deserve_v a_o courteous_a christian_a answer_n from_o the_o able_a of_o our_o congregationall_a man_n what_o they_o have_v do_v towards_o it_o i_o know_v not_o be_v little_o acquaint_v with_o affair_n abroad_o be_v lock_v up_o in_o much_o sadness_n of_o spirit_n at_o home_n but_o i_o think_v with_o myself_o that_o be_v i_o be_v number_v among_o the_o independent_o though_o i_o be_o the_o weak_a and_o most_o worthy_a the_o holy_a lord_n shall_v turn_v i_o out_o of_o his_o holy_a work_n lay_v other_o thing_n together_o which_o i_o have_v mention_v in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n i_o resolve_v to_o improve_v the_o little_a talon_n the_o lord_n have_v give_v i_o in_o examine_v the_o ground_n of_o these_o practice_n and_o to_o stand_v up_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o such_o minister_n who_o i_o see_v be_v dear_a to_o christ_n and_o who_o in_o holiness_n learning_n and_o ability_n the_o lord_n have_v honour_v far_o before_o myself_o and_o now_o my_o father_n the_o quarrel_n be_v not_o only_o with_o you_o because_o you_o be_v presbyterial_a minister_n the_o quarrel_n be_v with_o the_o whole_a ministry_n for_o this_o spirit_n have_v infect_v even_o some_o in_o new_a england_n and_o i_o believe_v will_v cause_v more_o trouble_n there_o in_o those_o church_n than_o ever_o the_o bishop_n do_v though_o they_o threaten_v they_o much_o what_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o some_o and_o what_o be_v the_o fear_n of_o the_o worthy_a minister_n there_o i_o understand_v by_o letter_n i_o do_v not_o i_o dare_v not_o censure_v the_o congregationall_a church_n here_o some_o of_o the_o minister_n i_o know_v to_o be_v holy_a and_o reverend_a i_o wish_v i_o have_v such_o grace_n many_o member_n no_o doubt_n be_v real_o godly_a but_o have_v i_o not_o live_v in_o new_a england_n and_o see_v the_o church_n there_o by_o what_o i_o hear_v of_o divers_a and_o what_o i_o know_v by_o some_o church_n here_o
or_o three_o year_n together_o in_o secunda_fw-la epist_n and_o episc_n orient_a hence_o also_o care_n be_v take_v afterward_o that_o none_o but_o bishop_n shall_v make_v this_o the_o presbyter_n must_v not_o dare_v to_o do_v it_o sylvester_n in_o council_n rom._n also_o holy_a vesture_n for_o the_o minister_n to_o be_v use_v only_o in_o the_o church_n many_o of_o we_o never_o own_v these_o hil._n epist_n steph_n ad_fw-la hil._n all_o have_v cast_v they_o away_o also_o in_o the_o lord_n supper_n the_o mix_n of_o water_n with_o the_o wine_n which_o how_o ever_o some_o say_v it_o be_v because_o of_o the_o hot_a country_n yet_o alexander_n who_o they_o say_v be_v the_o first_o that_o mix_v water_n with_o wine_n 2._o epist_n ad_fw-la omnes_fw-la ortho._n apol._n 2._o do_v not_o give_v that_o reason_n but_o because_o water_v and_o blood_n come_v out_o of_o christ_n side_n in_o justin_n martyr_n time_n it_o seem_v this_o be_v their_o manner_n also_o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o institution_n also_o we_o find_v several_a church-officer_n among_o they_o as_o appear_v by_o gaius_n bishop_n of_o rome_n who_o order_v that_o all_o the_o order_n in_o the_o church_n must_v ascend_v from_o the_o doorkeeper_n to_o the_o bishop_n ostiarius_n lector_fw-la exorcista_fw-la acolythus_n subdiaconus_fw-la diaconus_fw-la presbyter_n episcopus_fw-la the_o ordination_n of_o these_o officer_n with_o their_o ceremony_n be_v after_o set_v down_o in_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n if_o the_o decretal_n of_o gaius_n be_v of_o any_o authority_n all_o these_o be_v in_o primitive_a church_n before_o constantine_n come_v to_o the_o empire_n more_o thing_n i_o may_v add_v but_o i_o forbear_v and_o though_o there_o be_v many_o glorious_a martyr_n yet_o all_o their_o church-member_n be_v not_o such_o many_o do_v yield_v to_o the_o heathenish_a idolatry_n when_o persecution_n begin_v yea_o and_o there_o be_v foul_a sin_n among_o they_o church_n as_o adultery_n whoredom_n yea_o even_o among_o those_o who_o have_v be_v confessor_n as_o cyprian_n affirm_v ingemiscimus_fw-la say_v he_o to_o see_v it_o drunkenness_n swear_v and_o what_o not_o as_o any_o one_o may_v well_o gather_v who_o be_v but_o a_o little_a verse_v in_o antiquity_n eccles_n de_fw-fr unita_fw-la eccles_n and_o by_o read_v over_o the_o canon_n make_v in_o their_o counsel_n we_o may_v learn_v what_o they_o be_v trouble_v with_o as_o for_o the_o minister_n they_o also_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n though_o they_o be_v not_o such_o lordly_a one_o as_o we_o be_v with_o presbyter_n join_v with_o they_o this_o no_o man_n can_v deny_v that_o know_v any_o thing_n of_o those_o time_n whence_o then_o i_o be_o bold_a to_o affirm_v that_o if_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o true_a visible_a church_n in_o those_o time_n even_o while_o they_o be_v under_o persecute_v heathenish_a emperor_n than_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o true_a visible_a church_n now_o in_o england_n and_o if_o there_o be_v none_o now_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o in_o those_o time_n but_o i_o think_v no_o man_n be_v so_o impudent_a to_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o church_n in_o those_o time_n i_o plead_v now_o for_o many_o presbyterial_a minister_n and_o their_o congregation_n so_o i_o have_v do_v with_o my_o second_o argument_n which_o if_o i_o shall_v draw_v into_o form_n it_o run_v thus_o if_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o true_a visible_a church_n in_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n then_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o visible_a church_n now_o in_o england_n but_o the_o antecedent_n be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o consequent_a be_v true_a some_o we_o have_v that_o dote_v they_o tell_v we_o they_o expect_v man_n to_o be_v send_v from_o god_n and_o endue_v with_o extraordinary_a gift_n as_o be_v the_o apostle_n &c_n &c_n and_o these_o be_v the_o man_n who_o shall_v set_v up_o church_n and_o reform_v we_o good_a lord_n whither_o will_v our_o vile_a heart_n carry_v we_o if_o thou_o do_v leave_v they_o these_o person_n be_v not_o worth_a the_o answer_n but_o yet_o let_v i_o say_v a_o little_a to_o they_o and_o so_o pass_v on_o to_o the_o chief_a thing_n i_o intend_v for_o the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n i_o need_v not_o speak_v what_o be_v necessary_a god_n have_v give_v to_o most_o and_o many_o excel_v in_o that_o gift_n for_o miracle_n i_o they_o be_v give_v but_o for_o that_o time_n to_o help_v on_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n as_o sauce_n do_v meat_n but_o now_o if_o god_n do_v that_o by_o the_o ministry_n of_o his_o servant_n without_o miracle_n which_o he_o do_v then_o by_o the_o ministry_n accompany_v with_o miracle_n viz._n convert_v edify_v formalize_v etc._n etc._n this_o do_v but_o more_o confirm_v our_o ministry_n and_o prove_v that_o god_n own_v these_o despise_a minister_n the_o plain_a word_n preach_v have_v make_v as_o good_a christian_n as_o preach_v and_o miracle_n 2_o if_o any_o body_n have_v need_n of_o the_o gift_n of_o miracle_n than_o master_n eliot_n in_o new_a england_n have_v who_o now_o preach_v to_o the_o indian_n and_o other_o with_o he_o but_o god_n carry_v on_o his_o work_n among_o the_o indian_n without_o miracle_n 3_o do_v not_o you_o yourselves_o believe_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n if_o so_o what_o need_v have_v you_o of_o such_o kind_n of_o person_n so_o gift_v the_o great_a miracle_n which_o i_o desire_v to_o confirm_v i_o in_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v to_o find_v the_o power_n of_o christ_n his_o death_n and_o resurrection_n in_o my_o heart_n without_o which_o i_o care_v not_o for_o miracle_n but_o enough_o for_o these_o there_o be_v other_o who_o have_v be_v member_n of_o a_o independent_a church_n where_o division_n have_v fall_v out_o and_o so_o have_v break_v in_o piece_n they_o have_v say_v that_o minister_n be_v not_o fit_v with_o a_o spirit_n of_o government_n to_o keep_v church_n in_o order_n and_o therefore_o these_o be_v not_o time_n as_o yet_o for_o such_o reformation_n i_o answer_v 1_o the_o more_o shame_n for_o your_o church-member_n who_o be_v of_o such_o proud_a and_o turbulent_a spirit_n that_o godly_a and_o able_a minister_n be_v not_o able_a enough_o to_o govern_v they_o those_o who_o come_v into_o church_n communion_n with_o the_o awe_n of_o god_n upon_o their_o heart_n we_o can_v govern_v they_o some_o such_o spirit_n we_o find_v among_o the_o independent_o but_o if_o we_o can_v see_v more_o it_o will_v be_v better_o 2_o i_o wonder_v not_o at_o your_o division_n when_o i_o see_v what_o principle_n some_o godly_a congregationall_a man_n have_v go_v by_o for_o the_o order_n of_o their_o church_n government_n 3_o your_o argument_n be_v as_o strong_a against_o the_o apostle_n for_o there_o be_v heresy_n and_o schism_n in_o their_o day_n but_o i_o leave_v these_o and_o return_v to_o that_o from_o whence_o i_o have_v make_v a_o digression_n have_v then_o prove_v there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o church_n in_o england_n let_v we_o examine_v the_o ground_n why_o these_o man_n separate_v from_o these_o minister_n and_o church_n i_o conceive_v their_o ground_n may_v be_v refer_v to_o one_o of_o these_o head_n either_o to_o the_o minister_n either_o to_o or_o worship_n either_o to_o or_o the_o congregation_n either_o to_o or_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n else_o that_o can_v so_o well_o be_v reduce_v to_o one_o of_o these_o yet_o i_o be_o sure_a i_o shall_v meet_v with_o it_o before_o i_o have_v do_v for_o the_o minister_n they_o be_v indeed_o make_v the_o dung_n of_o england_n who_o be_v more_o scorn_v than_o they_o especial_o the_o presbyterial_a man_n be_v they_o never_o so_o holy_a or_o learned_a whether_o there_o be_v just_a cause_n in_o respect_n of_o man_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o god_n to_o judge_v i_o be_o sure_a when_o minister_n be_v in_o honour_n we_o find_v the_o word_n have_v good_a effect_n but_o since_o they_o come_v to_o be_v thus_o scorn_v little_a good_a have_v be_v do_v i_o deny_v not_o but_o god_n may_v have_v a_o just_a quarrel_n against_o we_o and_o give_v i_o leave_v without_o offence_n to_o propound_v the_o reason_n why_o 1_o the_o first_o i_o have_v rather_o conceal_v because_o i_o shall_v seem_v to_o spy_v out_o a_o mote_n in_o my_o father_n and_o brethren_n eye_n when_o i_o have_v a_o beam_n in_o my_o own_o but_o therefore_o i_o rather_o propound_v it_o as_o i_o hear_v it_o from_o a_o reverend_n and_o judicious_a divine_a a_o man_n of_o a_o gracious_a and_o moderate_a spirit_n mr._n nathaniel_n rogers_n in_o new_a england_n i_o be_v talk_v with_o he_o there_o when_o the_o news_n come_v of_o the_o covenant_n that_o england_n and_o scotland_n enter_v into_o the_o thing_n please_v he_o and_o all_o our_o
question_v till_o our_o separatist_n rise_v up_o who_o be_v not_o comparable_a to_o they_o in_o part_n or_o holiness_n 2_o i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o make_v of_o those_o minister_n who_o be_v ordain_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 33_o cyp._n epis_n 33_o they_o be_v ordain_v in_o cyprian_n time_n by_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n and_o by_o hieroms_n time_n the_o bishop_n have_v ingross_v that_o power_n into_o their_o own_o hand_n as_o appear_v by_o that_o speech_n of_o he_o except_v ordination_n evagr._fw-la epist_n ad_fw-la evagr._fw-la what_o do_v a_o bishop_n that_o a_o presbyter_n do_v not_o so_o that_o by_o this_o time_n it_o shall_v seem_v that_o the_o presbyter_n be_v turn_v out_o and_o the_o bishop_n only_o ordain_v it_o be_v possible_a this_o may_v be_v but_o in_o some_o church_n for_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n order_v that_o no_o bishop_n shall_v ordain_v without_o the_o council_n of_o his_o clergy_n can._n 22._o can._n 3._o now_o what_o be_v these_o no_o 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church_n exceed_o this_o only_a say_v he_o i_o have_v not_o hear_v of_o that_o there_o have_v be_v a_o general_a humiliation_n among_o the_o minister_n for_o their_o yield_v so_o much_o to_o the_o superstitious_a invention_n of_o that_o hierarchy_n 2_o i_o conceive_v god_n may_v just_o have_v a_o quarrel_n against_o we_o the_o young_a sort_n of_o minister_n for_o our_o woeful_a conformity_n to_o the_o fashion_n of_o the_o time_n what_o long_a hair_n now_o do_v we_o see_v most_o young_a minister_n wear_v and_o if_o any_o new_a fond_a fashion_n come_v up_o who_o follow_v it_o soon_o than_o they_o who_o take_v more_o liberty_n here_o then_o independent_a minister_n the_o young_a sort_n 3_o there_o have_v be_v a_o too_o great_a idolize_v of_o learning_n and_o abuse_v it_o in_o sermon_n by_o recite_v of_o the_o father_n or_o schoolman_n some_o man_n fond_o make_v it_o may_v be_v a_o quarter_n of_o their_o sermon_n to_o be_v latin_a or_o greek_a sentence_n out_o of_o they_o and_o then_o 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impute_v to_o all_o the_o presbyterian_o who_o be_v thus_o scorn_v but_o now_o to_o the_o minister_n the_o general_a apprehension_n that_o these_o man_n have_v of_o the_o minister_n be_v that_o they_o be_v anti-christian_n minister_n and_o what_o be_v more_o common_a in_o their_o mouth_n then_o to_o call_v they_o so_o this_o be_v a_o heavy_a charge_n if_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v but_o this_o term_n anti-christian_n be_v both_o a_o simple_a term_n a_o complexe_n proposition_n a_o syllogism_n i._n e._n they_o think_v it_o sufficient_a proof_n to_o charge_v they_o with_o it_o though_o hundred_o of_o these_o know_v no_o more_o than_o a_o babe_n wherein_o the_o formality_n of_o antichristianism_a do_v consist_v but_o every_o thing_n that_o displease_v they_o that_o be_v antichristian_a infant_n baptism_n be_v anti-christian_n the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n be_v anti-christian_n sing_v of_o psalm_n be_v anti-christian_n it_o be_v proof_n sufficient_a they_o have_v say_v it_o now_o this_o seem_v to_o i_o very_o strange_a that_o those_o man_n who_o instrumental_o 1._o convert_v man_n to_o christ_n 2._o build_v up_o man_n in_o christ_n 3._o oppose_v anti-christ_n to_o the_o utmost_a 4._o who_o have_v cast_v off_o anti-christ_n 5._o if_o they_o be_v under_o anti-christs_a power_n shall_v soon_o find_v his_o favour_n to_o be_v fire_n and_o faggot_n yet_o these_o man_n to_o be_v call_v anti-christians_a i_o say_v with_o the_o text_n the_o lord_n rebuke_v thou_o o_o satan_n but_o if_o you_o will_v take_v anti-christ_n in_o a_o large_a sense_n why_o may_v not_o those_o be_v as_o true_o call_v anti-christians_a who_o do_v throw_v down_o what_o ordinance_n christ_n have_v set_v up_o as_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o ministry_n give_v his_o promise_n to_o be_v with_o it_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n the_o baptise_v of_o the_o infant_n of_o believe_a parent_n sing_v of_o psahnes_n any_o form_n of_o external_a church-government_n all_o these_o be_v throw_v down_o by_o most_o of_o you_o and_o many_o walk_n above_o ordinance_n i_o say_v may_v not_o these_o be_v call_v as_o true_o anti-christians_a in_o a_o large_a sense_n who_o thus_o throw_v down_o what_o christ_n have_v set_v up_o as_o well_o as_o those_o who_o set_v up_o such_o ordinance_n as_o christ_n never_o do_v set_v up_o which_o be_v one_o sign_n of_o antichristianism_a but_o if_o you_o will_v know_v what_o be_v proper_o antichristianism_a 162._o exposi_fw-la on_o hos_n first_o book_n p._n 162._o i_o pray_v take_v it_o from_o a_o far_o more_o able_a man_n then_o myself_o one_o well_o know_v and_o that_o deserve_v honour_n mr._n burrough_n he_o well_o observe_v the_o madness_n of_o people_n that_o cry_v out_o against_o any_o thing_n that_o displease_v they_o that_o it_o be_v antichristianism_a then_o set_v down_o thus_o wherein_o it_o consist_v 1_o whosoever_o shall_v obtrude_v any_o doctrine_n upon_o the_o church_n to_o be_v believe_v by_o their_o own_o authority_n 2_o the_o intrusion_n of_o 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they_o do_v look_v upon_o abundance_n of_o our_o presbyterial_a minister_n as_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n 2_o i_o know_v that_o they_o will_v disapprove_v of_o the_o practice_n of_o some_o who_o have_v separate_v from_o the_o minister_n who_o they_o have_v before_o choose_v and_o the_o godly_a congregation_n upon_o this_o notion_n as_o i_o know_v some_o have_v do_v deceive_v i_o do_v honour_n the_o grace_n of_o divers_a of_o those_o christian_n who_o separate_v but_o satan_n get_v into_o a_o angel_n of_o light_n and_o deceive_v especial_o from_o that_o famous_a congregation_n of_o dedham_n of_o which_o i_o dare_v say_v that_o for_o a_o parochial_a congregation_n there_o be_v not_o the_o like_a number_n of_o real_a and_o visible_a saint_n in_o any_o congregation_n in_o england_n i_o be_o sure_a there_o be_v not_o before_o this_o separation_n be_v make_v and_o for_o the_o minister_n i_o speak_v not_o of_o they_o they_o be_v man_n well_o know_v i_o wish_v i_o have_v nothing_o more_o to_o trouble_v i_o then_o to_o live_v under_o that_o ministry_n in_o that_o congregation_n i_o hope_v whereas_o now_o i_o be_o a_o sad_a man_n i_o shall_v be_v as_o cheerful_a as_o any_o man_n in_o england_n mr._n burrough_n say_v he_o can_v communicate_v in_o that_o congregation_n than_o it_o seem_v he_o do_v not_o question_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o true_a minister_n object_n but_o if_o you_o say_v our_o new_a england_n minister_n do_v renounce_v their_o ordination_n which_o they_o have_v here_o for_o they_o be_v ordain_v again_o answ_n 70_o see_v answ_n to_o 32._o q._n 70_o it_o be_v true_a they_o be_v ordain_v again_o but_o i_o never_o hear_v it_o be_v upon_o that_o ground_n for_o let_v a_o minister_n be_v ordain_v there_o in_o one_o church_n if_o there_o be_v cause_n of_o his_o removal_n and_o so_o be_v elect_v in_o another_o church_n they_o ordain_v he_o again_o three_o i_o can_v say_v this_o our_o new_a england_n minister_n have_v often_o desire_v and_o frequent_o admit_v 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the_o reason_n which_o sway_v he_o and_o then_o judge_v the_o case_n be_v this_o one_o that_o be_v a_o minister_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v after_o choose_v teacher_n to_o a_o separate_a congregation_n without_o any_o new_a impose_v of_o hand_n this_o he_o undertake_v to_o justify_v thus_o 1_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v of_o god_n and_o not_o a_o invention_n of_o man_n it_o be_v not_o a_o postor_n threshold_n first_o bring_v by_o antichrist_n into_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n but_o have_v therein_o afore_o antichrist_n sit_v there_o 2._o baptism_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v join_v together_o among_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o foundation_n speak_v of_o heb._n 6.2_o therefore_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v regard_v 3._o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n still_o give_v to_o the_o office_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n as_o they_o do_v also_o still_o administer_v baptism_n 4._o we_o find_v not_o either_o precept_n example_n or_o ground_n in_o the_o scripture_n bind_v we_o to_o the_o repetition_n of_o it_o 5._o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n in_o israel_n become_v unclean_a when_o afterward_o they_o be_v cleanse_v retain_v still_o their_o place_n of_o be_v priest_n and_o levite_n and_o the_o child_n of_o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n succeed_v after_o they_o â—id_v administer_v without_o a_o new_a anoint_v or_o new_a imposition_n of_o hand_n etc._n etc._n thus_o then_o as_o mr._n johnson_n and_o mr._n ainsworth_n oppose_v rebaptization_n because_o baptism_n be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n which_o be_v have_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n before_o she_o fall_v into_o apostasy_n and_o have_v be_v there_o continue_v ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n time_n how_o ever_o co-mingled_n with_o many_o invention_n of_o their_o own_o so_o mr._n johnson_n defend_v the_o ordination_n of_o that_o minister_n which_o he_o have_v in_o england_n because_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o the_o apostle_n time_n before_o her_o apostasy_n and_o be_v there_o continue_v to_o this_o day_n though_o mix_v with_o many_o pollution_n of_o their_o own_o i_o pray_v only_o note_v this_o that_o whereas_o i_o say_v they_o stand_v by_o their_o ordination_n i_o do_v not_o mean_v that_o only_o but_o also_o they_o have_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n of_o which_o i_o speak_v before_o and_o that_o the_o separatist_n can_v deny_v which_o yet_o they_o make_v the_o great_a matter_n in_o a_o minister_n call_v three_o i_o answer_v if_o this_o argument_n be_v of_o any_o force_n it_o will_v rather_o prevail_v against_o the_o first_o reformer_n as_o in_o other_o nation_n so_o against_o our_o first_o reformer_n in_o england_n who_o come_v new_o out_o of_o popery_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o we_o who_o have_v be_v above_o ninety_o year_n out_o of_o that_o bondage_n and_o have_v cast_v off_o their_o government_n worship_n and_o doctrine_n so_o far_o as_o antichristian_a for_o a_o long_a time_n but_o if_o our_o first_o reformer_n be_v able_a enough_o to_o maintain_v their_o call_n then_o much_o more_o our_o minister_n four_o but_o if_o you_o will_v throw_v away_o all_o that_o come_v through_o rome_n let_v we_o see_v what_o course_n you_o will_v take_v when_o you_o have_v deny_v all_o the_o ordinance_n that_o have_v be_v administer_v for_o these_o ninety_o year_n in_o england_n for_o if_o no_o ministry_n then_o certain_o no_o authoritative_a preach_n no_o sacrament_n and_o thus_o you_o have_v renounce_v yvor_o baptism_n which_o you_o have_v by_o these_o minister_n what_o method_n will_v you_o take_v in_o your_o reformation_n how_o will_v you_o come_v to_o be_v rebaptise_v you_o will_v tell_v i_o you_o will_v covenant_v together_o and_o then_o elect_v and_o ordain_v a_o minister_n and_o he_o shall_v baptize_v of_o this_o more_o afterward_o but_o
let_v i_o examine_v what_o you_o say_v at_o present_a you_o will_v covenant_v together_o suppose_v yourselves_o to_o be_v saint_n first_o say_v you_o so_o be_v you_o saint_n by_o call_v how_o come_v you_o to_o be_v so_o what_o do_v god_n call_v you_o immediate_o no_o you_o must_v say_v many_o if_o not_o all_o of_o you_o who_o have_v any_o truth_n of_o grace_n by_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o word_n what_o by_o those_o minister_n from_o who_o you_o separate_v as_o no_o minister_n because_o of_o their_o ordination_n have_v the_o lord_n so_o far_o own_v his_o despise_a member_n as_o to_o make_v they_o the_o instrument_n to_o bring_v you_o to_o be_v visible_a saint_n fit_a to_o imbody_n or_o covenant_n &_o c_o and_o be_v these_o now_o no_o minister_n be_v you_o the_o effect_n of_o their_o ministerial_a labour_n and_o they_o no_o minister_n sure_o in_o this_o one_o thing_n you_o have_v overthrow_v yourselves_o but_o than_o you_o say_v you_o will_v ordain_v he_o this_o i_o will_v consider_v in_o its_o own_o place_n then_o he_o shall_v baptize_v but_o since_o he_o do_v renounce_v his_o own_o baptism_n also_o who_o shall_v baptize_v he_o first_o you_o must_v have_v a_o minister_n to_o do_v that_o to_o be_v sure_a he_o can_v do_v it_o himself_o nor_o none_o of_o you_o for_o you_o be_v private_a person_n to_o administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n before_o you_o be_v baptize_v be_v contrary_a to_o scripture_n rule_v there_o be_v a_o report_n when_o i_o be_v in_o new_a england_n that_o a_o carpenter_n re-baptised_n mr._n williams_n 269._o in_o just_o mar._n time_n none_o receive_v the_o supper_n but_o such_o as_o be_v first_o baptize_v apol._n 2._o ius_n divi._n apend_v p._n 269._o and_o then_o he_o do_v rebaptise_a the_o rest_n i_o do_v not_o stand_v to_o defend_v the_o thing_n whether_o it_o be_v true_a or_o no_o but_o it_o be_v like_a enough_o to_o be_v true_a and_o suitable_a to_o the_o other_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o that_o wild_a generation_n where_o be_v we_o now_o five_o that_o be_v very_o observable_a which_o the_o london_n minister_n have_v add_v in_o the_o defence_n of_o their_o ordination_n that_o in_o this_o church_n of_o england_n the_o corruption_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n will_v have_v introduce_v about_o ordination_n of_o minister_n and_o other_o ecclesiastical_a affair_n be_v withstand_v and_o oppose_v by_o the_o king_n of_o england_n nor_o do_v we_o read_v of_o any_o minister_n that_o be_v ordain_v by_o any_o agent_n send_v from_o rome_n but_o only_o some_o idle_a ceremony_n of_o confirmation_n or_o they_o that_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pall_n and_o the_o ring_n bring_v thence_o into_o england_n thus_o far_o the_o london_n minister_n in_o the_o margin_n they_o have_v set_v down_o the_o author_n that_o prove_v it_o six_o there_o may_v be_v another_o answer_n give_v by_o some_o who_o be_v good_a historian_n which_o i_o confess_v i_o be_o not_o want_v both_o time_n and_o such_o book_n so_o far_o as_o i_o can_v go_v i_o will_n that_o the_o church_n in_o england_n be_v at_o first_o right_o gather_v and_o constitute_v it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v edition_n mart._n 1._o vol._n p._n 237_o last_o edition_n the_o instrument_n of_o gather_v be_v apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o mr._n fox_n neither_o be_v it_o to_o be_v doubt_v but_o they_o do_v ordain_v officer_n in_o the_o church_n for_o we_o read_v of_o minister_n and_o bishop_n the_o land_n fall_v to_o the_o possession_n of_o the_o saxon_n about_o the_o year_n 568._o 147._o p._n 147._o the_o story_n say_v by_o they_o all_o the_o clergy_n and_o the_o christian_a minister_n of_o the_o britain_n be_v then_o utter_o drive_v out_o in_o so_o much_o that_o the_o archbishop_n of_o london_n and_o york_n go_v into_o wales_n thus_o long_o then_o it_o seem_v the_o minister_n of_o england_n have_v no_o ordination_n from_o rome_n 149._o p._n 149._o this_o appear_v also_o by_o austin_n who_o come_v into_o england_n in_o the_o year_n five_o hundred_o ninety_o eight_o he_o about_o the_o year_n six_o hundred_o 153._o p._n 153._o assemble_v the_o bishop_n and_o doctor_n of_o britain_n so_o that_o still_o here_o be_v minister_n but_o where_o their_o abode_n be_v the_o story_n set_v not_o down_o but_o suppose_v to_o be_v towards_o wales_n and_o charge_v they_o to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o the_o englishman_n and_o also_o that_o they_o shall_v among_o themselves_o reform_v certain_a rite_n in_o their_o church_n so_o that_o still_o here_o be_v minister_n and_o church_n special_o for_o keep_v of_o eastertide_n baptise_v after_o the_o manner_n of_o rome_n etc._n etc._n to_o which_o the_o scot_n and_o britain_n will_v not_o agree_v this_o show_v they_o do_v not_o depend_v upon_o rome_n afterward_o there_o be_v another_o synod_n gather_v where_o seven_o bishop_n of_o britain_n be_v present_a and_o though_o we_o find_v a_o great_a battle_n fight_v present_o after_o where_o the_o britain_n be_v overcome_v yet_o the_o story_n do_v not_o mention_v that_o the_o minister_n be_v all_o slay_v there_o now_o the_o thing_n i_o aim_v at_o be_v this_o that_o since_o there_o be_v so_o many_o minister_n and_o bishop_n in_o england_n who_o have_v their_o ordination_n by_o succesfion_n from_o those_o apostolical_a man_n and_o not_o from_o rome_n and_o we_o find_v so_o many_o when_o austin_n come_v why_o may_v we_o not_o suppose_v that_o these_o may_v again_o preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o the_o englishman_n though_o at_o first_o they_o be_v opposite_a when_o they_o have_v smart_v for_o their_o folly_n and_o why_o may_v we_o not_o suppose_v they_o may_v return_v into_o england_n again_o especial_o into_o those_o part_n near_o wales_n also_o those_o who_o be_v drive_v out_o as_o the_o story_n say_v they_o be_v suppose_v into_o some_o other_o part_n may_v not_o they_o return_v into_o england_n also_o must_v we_o take_v the_o word_n of_o the_o story_n all_o the_o clergy_n and_o christian_a minister_n be_v drive_v out_o strict_o so_o as_o none_o at_o all_o be_v leave_v though_o latent_fw-la &_o c_o those_o who_o be_v good_a historian_n may_v help_v here_o and_o it_o will_v be_v some_o answer_n to_o that_o objection_n of_o our_o ordination_n come_v from_o rome_n though_o unto_o i_o the_o objection_n be_v very_o feeble_a if_o this_o answer_n can_v be_v make_v out_o as_o for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v right_o at_o first_o gather_v 111._o way_n of_o ch._n in_o n._n e._n ch._n 7._o p._n 111._o as_o above_o mention_v mr._n cotton_n yield_v it_o so_o as_o he_o say_v that_o all_o the_o work_n now_o be_v not_o to_o make_v they_o church_n which_o be_v none_o before_o but_o to_o reduce_v and_o restore_v they_o to_o their_o primitive_a institution_n etc._n etc._n to_o that_o part_n of_o the_o objection_n they_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o think_v of_o master_n bradford_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o those_o holy_a minister_n and_o martyr_n that_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o bishop_n in_o those_o day_n cranmer_n ridley_n hooper_n &_o c_o be_v he_o a_o anti-christian_n minister_n and_o all_o those_o minister_n who_o be_v then_o ordain_v though_o now_o they_o be_v scarce_o get_v out_o of_o the_o popish_a ceremony_n etc._n etc._n the_o holy_a martyr_n than_o do_v never_o offer_v to_o separate_v from_o mr._n bradford_n and_o the_o rest_n nor_o call_v they_o antichristian_a minister_n i_o pray_v how_o many_o such_o bradford_n have_v you_o among_o you_o not_o all_o the_o separatist_n in_o england_n can_v afford_v such_o a_o one_o christ_n call_v he_o his_o faithful_a minister_n but_o you_o say_v mr._n bradford_n be_v none_o curse_v be_v that_o doctrine_n now_o if_o those_o minister_n be_v true_a minister_n though_o they_o have_v a_o episcopal_a ordination_n than_o so_o be_v we_o notwithstanding_o their_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n it_o be_v vain_a to_o say_v those_o bishop_n be_v godly_a man_n so_o be_v ot_fw-mi we_o for_o it_o be_v a_o bold_a assertion_n to_o say_v that_o 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the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n before_o the_o captivity_n say_v how_o many_o year_n boldness_n alsle_n chron._n p._n 2153._o goodw._n mo._n ar._n l._n 1._o c._n 10._o chemnitius_n in_o 10._o joh._n take_v thief_n there_o to_o be_v the_o pharisee_n for_o their_o order_n be_v not_o institute_v by_o god_n nor_o bring_v in_o by_o the_o prophet_n but_o only_o a_o humane_a invention_n and_o through_o their_o own_o boldness_n afterward_o when_o christ_n come_v be_v they_o clear_a what_o think_v you_o then_o of_o corrupt_a caiphas_n the_o high_a priest_n his_o corrupt_a enter_v into_o and_o his_o continuance_n in_o the_o place_n for_o one_o year_n so_o the_o pharisee_n a_o generation_n that_o god_n never_o institute_v their_o school_n begin_v some_o say_v two_o hundred_o and_o forty_o year_n some_o say_v more_o before_o christ_n and_o for_o their_o superstitious_a invention_n they_o be_v not_o barren_a in_o they_o but_o do_v christ_n so_o soon_o as_o he_o come_v to_o preach_v call_v away_o the_o people_n and_o bid_v they_o separate_v here_o be_v corrupt_a officer_n etc._n etc._n no_o we_o find_v no_o such_o word_n nay_o he_o bid_v then_o hear_v matth._n 23._o after_o christ_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o how_o long_o do_v the_o church_n continue_v without_o superstitious_a mixture_n i_o doubt_v you_o will_v find_v the_o church_n have_v not_o be_v long_o free_a but_o we_o do_v not_o find_v separation_n present_o and_o null_v of_o minister_n as_o now_o man_n shall_v do_v well_o to_o give_v we_o a_o precept_n or_o example_n out_o of_o the_o word_n where_o ordinance_n have_v be_v dispense_v true_a for_o the_o substance_n though_o some_o humane_a mixture_n have_v be_v join_v to_o they_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v iterate_v if_o they_o can_v give_v we_o a_o direct_a precept_n or_o example_n show_v we_o it_o by_o a_o necessary_a consequence_n from_o scripture_n i_o wonder_v man_n shall_v be_v so_o forward_o to_o iterate_v baptism_n and_o ordination_n as_o these_o separatist_n call_v for_o without_o scripturall_a ground_n 9_o there_o be_v hundred_o of_o minister_n in_o england_n who_o be_v not_o ordain_v by_o bishop_n but_o you_o separate_v from_o those_o also_o they_o have_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n first_o then_o with_o fast_v and_o prayer_n solemnly_z set_z apart_z to_o the_o work_n by_o divers_a godly_a and_o learned_a divine_n who_o be_v against_o bishop_n yet_o these_o be_v also_o scorn_v by_o yourselves_o as_o much_o as_o the_o other_o but_o forsooth_o because_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n and_o have_v not_o renounce_v their_o ordination_n and_o take_v their_o ordination_n from_o you_o therefore_o that_o infection_n spread_v even_o to_o all_o generation_n out_o of_o what_o i_o have_v say_v i_o may_v pick_v up_o some_o answer_n to_o this_o but_o for_o trouble_v the_o reader_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v they_o be_v in_o some_o sense_n unreasonable_a man_n i_o deal_v with_o but_o this_o let_v i_o say_v it_o be_v strange_a that_o when_o 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that_o though_o there_o be_v officer_n in_o a_o church_n yet_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v which_o i_o be_o sure_a those_o divine_n who_o be_v for_o the_o people_n power_n in_o ordination_n will_v never_o admit_v be_v cross_a to_o their_o own_o principle_n and_o scripture_n 4_o we_o find_v in_o the_o eleven_o verse_n that_o after_o that_o be_v do_v aaron_n do_v wave_v these_o levite_n before_o the_o lord_n so_o that_o they_o be_v not_o complete_a till_o aaron_n have_v do_v his_o act_n whence_o i_o remember_v learned_a master_n cotton_n in_o his_o discourse_n with_o i_o say_v the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d there_o do_v but_o answer_v to_o the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o aaron_n wave_v of_o they_o do_v answer_v to_o our_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o clause_n only_o i_o remember_v but_o he_o have_v a_o large_a answer_n which_o i_o take_v from_o he_o in_o discourse_n by_o which_o i_o remember_v he_o do_v enervate_a this_o objection_n but_o i_o lose_v his_o note_n with_o all_o my_o other_o help_n in_o my_o shipwreck_n these_o man_n call_v for_o precept_n and_o example_n give_v you_o we_o one_o for_o this_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o you_o put_v we_o to_o that_o also_o we_o must_v give_v you_o they_o out_o of_o the_o new_a testament_n yea_o iwould_v go_v further_o and_o desire_v they_o to_o give_v i_o one_o examplein_n the_o first_o six_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n that_o ever_o the_o people_n do_v ordain_v their_o minister_n now_o this_o be_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o we_o can_v find_v no_o foot-step_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o scripture_n nor_o in_o the_o age_n next_o and_o yet_o that_o we_o shall_v make_v it_o so_o frequent_a that_o they_o must_v ordain_v most_o frequent_o for_o if_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v independent_a as_o now_o such_o a_o church_n where_o i_o be_o in_o a_o small_a village_n where_o the_o maintenance_n will_v not_o keep_v one_o minister_n and_o therefore_o to_o be_v sure_o we_o can_v have_v more_o minister_n then_o if_o the_o minister_n remove_v or_o die_v if_o there_o come_v a_o new_a minister_n the_o people_n must_v ever_o ordain_v thus_o it_o must_v be_v in_o most_o place_n in_o england_n few_o will_v be_v except_v 2_o justin_n mart._n apol_n 2_o and_o if_o every_o new_a election_n must_v have_v a_o new_a ordination_n than_o it_o must_v always_o be_v in_o the_o people_n power_n in_o the_o primitive_a time_n there_o be_v church_n in_o city_n and_o village_n but_o that_o the_o christian_n in_o village_n do_v ordain_v their_o officer_n i_o will_v glad_o see_v that_o prove_v ordination_n in_o those_o time_n be_v carry_v by_o a_o continue_a succession_n the_o apostle_n ordain_v some_o minister_n those_o ordain_o other_o so_o downward_o but_o never_o by_o the_o people_n learned_a dr._n 6_o â—ell_o enter_fw-mi to_o 2._o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s_o 6_o ames_n seem_v to_o answer_v this_o for_o whereas_o bellarmine_n have_v say_v in_o novo_fw-la testamento_fw-la ubicunque_fw-la mentio_fw-la fit_a manunm_fw-la impositionis_fw-la semper_fw-la ea_fw-la apostolis_n caeterisque_fw-la episcapis_fw-la nunquà m_fw-la vero_fw-la plebi_fw-la tribuitur_fw-la the_o doctor_n answer_v to_o this_o in_o historiâ_fw-la novi_fw-la testamenti_fw-la exempla_fw-la babemus_fw-la constitutionis_fw-la ministerii_fw-la &_o ejusdem_fw-la etiam_fw-la conservationis_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la restaurationis_fw-la ejus_fw-la aut_fw-la reformationis_fw-la post_fw-la generalem_fw-la apostasiam_fw-la omne_fw-la igitur_fw-la quae_fw-la pertinent_a ad_fw-la plebem_fw-la fidelem_fw-la in_fw-la tali_fw-la casu_fw-la non_fw-la representantur_fw-la ibi_fw-la certis_fw-la exemplis_fw-la however_o these_o word_n seem_v to_o carry_v it_o as_o if_o the_o doctor_n do_v hold_v that_o the_o people_n have_v this_o power_n in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n yet_o i_o question_v whether_o the_o doctor_n will_v look_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o england_n now_o under_o such_o a_o notion_n neither_o will_v he_o deny_v the_o ordination_n of_o our_o minister_n to_o be_v valid_a for_o substance_n but_o yet_o hear_v one_o may_v cast_v in_o something_o in_o time_n of_o reformation_n it_o may_v be_v he_o say_v 1_o to_o reform_v the_o minister_n be_v to_o form_n it_o now_o as_o it_o be_v first_o form_v but_o the_o ministry_n be_v not_o at_o first_o form_v by_o the_o people_n ergo_fw-la the_o ministry_n can_v be_v now_o reform_v by_o the_o people_n i_o think_v the_o major_n will_v not_o be_v deny_v for_o the_o minor_a let_v any_o prove_v that_o according_a to_o this_o some_o will_v say_v we_o must_v have_v apostle_n they_o form_v the_o minister_n first_o we_o speak_v of_o ordination_n i_o say_v non_fw-la sequitur_fw-la unless_o you_o can_v prove_v the_o apostle_n ordain_v only_o quâ_fw-la apostle_n if_o so_o i_o know_v not_o how_o those_o minister_n who_o the_o apostle_n do_v ordain_v can_v ordain_v other_o but_o to_o be_v sure_a they_o do_v 2_o i_o desire_n a_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o hold_v out_o this_o that_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n 3_o i_o doubt_v we_o shall_v rare_o find_v such_o time_n when_o there_o be_v a_o society_n of_o godly_a christian_n to_o ordain_v but_o there_o be_v some_o minister_n also_o ordinary_o there_o be_v minister_n who_o teach_v this_o people_n 4_o it_o will_v be_v a_o question_n whether_o the_o apostasy_n have_v be_v such_o as_o to_o require_v this_o for_o if_o baptism_n be_v not_o repeat_v but_o be_v think_v valid_a though_o administer_v by_o a_o romish_a minister_n because_o he_o be_v set_v apart_o to_o the_o work_n and_o keep_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o ordinance_n why_o may_v not_o the_o ordination_n administer_v by_o those_o minister_n hold_v as_o well_o 2_o a_o second_o ground_n that_o make_v i_o doubt_n be_v this_o it_o seem_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o christ_n shall_v appoint_v extraordinary_a officer_n and_o make_v that_o a_o part_n of_o their_o work_n which_o the_o people_n themselves_o may_v do_v paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o ordain_v but_o what_o need_v that_o the_o people_n may_v well_o say_v what_o need_n paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o do_v that_o which_o we_o can_v do_v ourselves_o frustra_fw-la fit_a per_fw-la plura_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o apostle_n never_o need_v but_o to_o preach_v and_o convert_v the_o people_n to_o the_o faith_n when_o they_o have_v do_v so_o they_o shall_v have_v say_v we_o have_v now_o do_v our_o work_n bring_v you_o to_o be_v believer_n you_o may_v now_o elect_v a_o officer_n and_o ordain_v he_o yourselves_o the_o power_n be_v you_o only_o here_o will_v have_v be_v some_o trouble_n about_o baptise_v since_o than_o i_o find_v that_o this_o be_v part_n of_o their_o office_n than_o i_o can_v believe_v this_o be_v the_o people_n work_n paul_n may_v easy_o have_v leave_v we_o a_o precedent_n in_o some_o society_n of_o christian_n that_o will_v have_v quiet_v all_o our_o dispute_n more_o may_v be_v say_v and_o be_v say_v by_o other_o but_o i_o see_v our_o new_a england_n divine_v do_v almost_o yield_v it_o by_o give_v power_n to_o some_o minister_n to_o ordain_v in_o other_o congregation_n since_o nothing_o can_v be_v draw_v from_o scripture_n by_o precept_n or_o example_n to_o prove_v this_o hence_o some_o will_v draw_v it_o out_o by_o argument_n those_o who_o can_v do_v the_o great_a may_v do_v the_o less_o the_o people_n can_v do_v the_o great_a viz._n elect_v ergo_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v as_o free_o deny_v as_o it_o be_v affirm_v election_n be_v not_o the_o great_a scripture-light_n be_v judge_n that_o be_v the_o design_n i_o doubt_v of_o make_v ordination_n but_o a_o adjunct_n for_o so_o indeed_o it_o will_v easy_o be_v grant_v if_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n and_o this_o only_o be_v a_o adjunct_n the_o people_n may_v well_o ordain_v yea_o and_o in_o a_o church_n where_o there_o be_v officer_n to_o ordain_v i_o know_v not_o why_o they_o who_o give_v the_o essence_n may_v not_o give_v the_o adjunct_n why_o shall_v a_o adjunct_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o officer_n only_o in_o that_o church_n when_o the_o essence_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o 10._o mr._n n._n w._n omnis_fw-la quaestio_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la aliud_fw-la quod_fw-la quaeritur_fw-la babebit_fw-la resolutionem_fw-la nec_fw-la ambiguitas_fw-la per_fw-la ambiguitatem_fw-la sed_fw-la ex_fw-la elaris_fw-la manifestis_fw-la etc._n etc._n irenae_n l._n 2._o c._n 10._o further_o than_o as_o member_n they_o join_v with_o the_o people_n for_o so_o it_o seem_v the_o officer_n elect_v as_o member_n and_o if_o you_o do_v elect_v only_o as_o member_n why_o shall_v you_o not_o also_o ordain_v as_o member_n for_o election_n be_v the_o great_a this_o the_o less_o the_o other_o argument_n be_v the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n ergo_fw-la but_o this_o be_v not_o easy_o yield_v it_o be_v a_o