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church_n ancient_a father_n prove_v 2,921 5 5.6524 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A15733 An ansvvere to a popish pamphlet, of late newly forbished, and the second time printed, entituled: Certaine articles, or forcible reasons discouering the palpable absurdities, and most notorious errors of the Protestants religion. By Anthony Wotton Wotton, Anthony, 1561?-1626.; Wright, Thomas, d. 1624. Certaine articles or forcible reasons. 1605 (1605) STC 26002; ESTC S120304 112,048 194

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part_n of_o the_o question_n that_o it_o may_v gainsay_v the_o former_a example_n if_o the_o protestant_n have_v any_o faith_n the_o world_n be_v without_o faith_n 1._o art_n 1._o par_fw-fr 1._o 1500._o year_n but_o the_o world_n be_v not_o without_o faith_n 1500._o year_n therefore_o the_o protestant_n have_v no_o faith_n this_o papist_n affirm_v that_o the_o protestant_n have_v no_o faith_n to_o prove_v it_o he_o bring_v this_o argument_n that_o the_o world_n be_v not_o without_o faith_n 1500._o year_n the_o syllogism_n be_v of_o the_o late_a kind_n because_o the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o proposition_n be_v gainsay_v in_o the_o assumption_n and_o the_o former_a in_o the_o conclusion_n a_o disiunctive_a syllogism_n be_v when_o the_o proposition_n be_v disiunctive_a whereof_o also_o there_o be_v two_o kind_n the_o former_a gainsay_v one_o and_o conclude_v the_o rest_n example_n all_o protestant_n build_v their_o faith_n upon_o their_o own_o private_a exposition_n 1._o art_n 2._o 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it_o serve_v to_o fill_v up_o the_o measure_n and_o make_v a_o show_n not_o for_o disproof_n but_o disgrace_n of_o our_o profession_n but_o let_v we_o see_v his_o proof_n if_o the_o protestant_n say_v he_o have_v any_o faith_n hope_n charity_n repentance_n church_n altar_n sacrifice_n priest_n religion_n christ_n than_o the_o world_n be_v without_o they_o for_o 1000_o year_n or_o rather_o 1500._o but_o the_o world_n be_v not_o without_o they_o for_o 1000_o or_o 1500._o year_n therefore_o the_o protestant_n have_v no_o faith_n hope_n charity_n etc._n etc._n b._n b._n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n of_o your_o proposition_n first_o because_o proposition_n to_o the_o proposition_n the_o protestant_n may_v have_v some_o faith_n hope_n charity_n etc._n etc._n though_o they_o have_v not_o the_o same_o that_o the_o world_n than_o have_v as_o the_o greek_a and_o aethiopian_a church_n have_v some_o faith_n at_o this_o day_n howsoever_o they_o differ_v both_o from_o the_o protestant_n and_o the_o papist_n in_o diverse_a point_n of_o religion_n second_o because_o the_o protestant_n profess_v the_o same_o faith_n and_o religion_n which_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n always_o hold_v till_o it_o be_v by_o little_a and_o little_o suppress_v and_o drive_v out_o of_o sight_n by_o antichrist_n as_o it_o appear_v that_o i_o may_v name_v only_o those_o book_n that_o be_v extant_a in_o english_a by_o bishop_n jewel_n doctor_n fulke_n doctor_n whitaker_n doctor_n bilson_n doctor_n reynolds_n the_o lord_n plessy_n doctor_n willet_n and_o diverse_a other_o protestant_n divine_v our_o confession_n make_v nothing_o for_o they_o because_o if_o the_o church_n be_v eclipse_v for_o 1000_o year_n it_o be_v in_o the_o world_n else_o how_o can_v it_o be_v eclipse_v unless_o the_o sun_n and_o the_o moon_n cease_v to_o be_v in_o the_o world_n when_o they_o be_v in_o the_o eclipse_n the_o proof_n they_o offer_v and_o yet_o they_o do_v but_o offer_v it_o be_v insufficient_a for_o it_o follow_v not_o that_o if_o these_o few_o record_n we_o have_v of_o the_o east_n and_o west_n church_n make_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o faith_n and_o religion_n we_o profess_v than_o they_o be_v not_o at_o all_o in_o the_o world_n you_o will_v say_v show_v we_o where_o they_o be_v hold_v nay_o prove_v you_o they_o be_v hold_v no_o where_o for_o we_o now_o be_v answer_n not_o replyer_n and_o what_o if_o it_o can_v not_o be_v show_v yet_o we_o know_v by_o the_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n that_o there_o have_v be_v always_o a_o true_a church_n in_o which_o say_v we_o this_o religion_n that_o we_o now_o profess_v must_v of_o necessity_n have_v be_v hold_v and_o with_o we_o it_o be_v no_o inconvenience_n to_o have_v the_o true_a church_n hide_v this_o it_o stand_v you_o upon_o to_o disprove_v which_o when_o you_o attempt_v to_o do_v by_o any_o particular_a record_n you_o shall_v god_n will_v have_v particular_a answer_n yet_o we_o be_v content_a for_o avow_v the_o substance_n of_o our_o doctrine_n to_o stand_v to_o the_o record_n of_o antiquity_n in_o these_o part_n of_o the_o world_n where_o we_o glad_o and_o thankful_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n be_v for_o the_o most_o part_n faithful_o preserve_v at_o the_o least_o for_o the_o first_o 500_o year_n but_o the_o world_n say_v he_o be_v not_o without_o they_o for_o 1000_o or_o 1500._o year_n no_o nor_o for_o 1000_o minute_n nor_o for_o one_o minute_n therefore_o assumption_n to_o the_o assumption_n your_o proof_n in_o this_o point_n may_v have_v be_v spare_v especial_o be_v no_o better_a than_o it_o be_v if_o the_o world_n say_v he_o be_v without_o faith_n for_o 1000_o year_n than_o assumption_n proof_n of_o the_o assumption_n be_v the_o jew_n synagogue_n more_o constant_a for_o continuance_n and_o more_o ample_a for_o largeness_n than_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o jew_n synagogue_n be_v not_o more_o constant_a or_o ample_a therefore_o the_o world_n be_v not_o with_o out_o faith_n etc._n etc._n 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the_o jewish_a synagogue_n can_v have_v no_o cause_n of_o boast_v but_o i_o will_v not_o strive_v about_o this_o consequence_n let_v we_o come_v to_o the_o assumption_n but_o the_o jew_n synagogue_n say_v he_o have_v not_o be_v namely_o since_o the_o come_n of_o christ_n more_o ample_a or_o constant_a we_o easy_o grant_v you_o this_o assumption_n confess_v a_o perpetual_a assumption_n to_o the_o assumption_n continuance_n of_o christ_n church_n from_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o world_n to_o the_o end_n thereof_o and_o believe_v that_o the_o number_n of_o they_o which_o have_v profess_v the_o truth_n of_o christ_n gospel_n have_v be_v great_a than_o the_o multitude_n of_o the_o jew_n since_o our_o saviour_n come_v if_o the_o jew_n synagogue_n say_v he_o have_v be_v more_o constant_a assumption_n proof_n of_o the_o assumption_n and_o ample_a then_o christi_n admirable_a promise_n be_v not_o accomplish_v i_o deny_v your_o consequence_n for_o neither_o the_o prophet_n nor_o our_o saviour_n 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constant_a than_o christ_n admirable_a promise_n be_v not_o accomplish_v the_o promise_n of_o god_n make_v to_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n in_o d_o d_o the_o prophet_n be_v either_o of_o the_o outward_a estate_n thereof_o as_o that_o assumption_n to_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o assumption_n it_o shall_v be_v universal_a for_o all_o nation_n not_o the_o jew_n only_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v maintain_v by_o king_n queen_n etc._n etc._n or_o of_o the_o inward_a to_o which_o we_o must_v refer_v the_o peace_n the_o glory_n and_o the_o continuance_n for_o ever_o as_o for_o the_o perpetual_a visibility_n and_o famousness_n in_o the_o world_n there_o be_v neither_o mention_n nor_o signification_n of_o any_o such_o matter_n in_o the_o prophet_n and_o namely_o not_o in_o this_o place_n unless_o perhaps_o it_o may_v be_v from_o hence_o conclude_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v more_o year_n from_o the_o first_o come_v of_o christ_n to_o his_o second_o than_o there_o be_v in_o the_o continuance_n of_o the_o jewish_a synagogue_n under_o the_o law_n which_o i_o think_v no_o sober_a divine_a will_v affirm_v howsoever_o it_o shall_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o event_n then_o say_v he_o christ_n assistance_n have_v fail_v our_o saviour_n mat._n 16._o 18._o make_v no_o promise_n of_o the_o continual_a visibilitie_n of_o his_o church_n but_o only_o promise_v that_o the_o devil_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o any_o true_a member_n thereof_o to_o break_v of_o his_o continuance_n in_o the_o state_n of_o salvation_n who_o have_v once_o with_o peter_n by_o a_o true_a faith_n confess_v the_o lord_n jesus_n then_o christ_n presence_n say_v he_o be_v absent_a many_o hundred_o year_n before_o the_o final_a consummation_n there_o be_v no_o more_o promise_v mat._n 28._o 20._o but_o that_o our_o saviour_n f._n f._n will_v be_v with_o they_o that_o believe_v and_o namely_o with_o his_o minister_n till_o the_o end_n
every_o point_n that_o some_o of_o the_o father_n endeavour_n to_o prove_v by_o scripture_n neither_o will_v any_o papist_n that_o know_v the_o writing_n of_o the_o father_n give_v they_o such_o allowance_n nay_o it_o be_v ordinary_a with_o they_o in_o their_o controversy_n to_o acknowledge_v that_o diverse_a text_n bring_v by_o the_o father_n in_o main_a point_n of_o religion_n be_v not_o right_o allege_v look_v what_o they_o prove_v by_o scripture_n that_o we_o glad_o receive_v not_o because_o they_o say_v it_o but_o because_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n approve_v it_o but_o then_o we_o make_v ourselves_o judge_n of_o the_o father_n writing_n if_o we_o do_v there_o be_v more_o reason_n that_o every_o man_n shall_v be_v make_v a_o judge_n of_o a_o man_n writing_n than_o any_o man_n of_o god_n but_o we_o do_v not_o for_o we_o desire_v not_o to_o have_v any_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n allow_v of_o contrary_a to_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o father_n but_o as_o i_o say_v before_o where_o evident_a reason_n take_v from_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o do_v necessary_o require_v it_o as_o for_o our_o private_a exposition_n it_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o a_o persuasion_n that_o every_o man_n must_v have_v of_o the_o interpretation_n deliver_v according_a to_o the_o course_n of_o scripture_n general_o and_o particular_o to_o the_o context_n of_o the_o place_n expound_v which_o to_o deny_v christian_n be_v to_o bring_v they_o into_o slavery_n not_o obedience_n to_o deprive_v they_o of_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n yea_o more_o to_o spoil_v they_o of_o all_o use_n of_o reason_n by_o which_o enlighten_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o truth_n of_o god_n may_v be_v and_o be_v to_o be_v discern_v art_n 3._o all_o protestant_n who_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o greek_a and_o latin_a tongue_n be_v infidel_n here_o be_v latin_a put_v for_o hebrew_n either_o by_o the_o printer_n fault_n or_o the_o author_n craft_n who_o perhaps_o by_o this_o sleight_n will_v bring_v their_o vulgar_a latin_a translation_n into_o credit_n and_o thereby_o justle_v out_o the_o original_a hebrew_n but_o we_o will_v lay_v the_o blame_n upon_o the_o printer_n and_o so_o let_v it_o pass_v papist_n whosoever_o rely_v his_o faith_n upon_o the_o minister_n credit_n and_o b._n a._n b._n fidelity_n have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o but_o all_o those_o in_o england_n who_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o greek_a and_o hebrew_n tongue_n rely_v their_o faith_n upon_o the_o minister_n credit_n ergo_fw-la all_o those_o in_o england_n who_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o greek_a and_o hebrew_n tongue_n have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o the_o mayor_n be_v manifest_a because_o they_o themselves_o confess_v court._n c._n calu._n lib._n 4._o instit_fw-la cap._n 9_o §_o 3._o luther_n lib._n the_o council_n pag._n 54._o &_o lib_n the_o council_n par_fw-fr 1._o q._n d._n b_o wherein_o he_o desire_v the_o lord_n of_o the_o council_n to_o procure_v speedy_o a_o new_a translation_n because_o that_o which_o now_o be_v in_o use_n in_o england_n be_v full_a of_o error_n e_o c●n_v ●n_z the_o conference_n at_o hamp●on_n court._n that_o every_o man_n may_v err_v and_o do_v err_v neither_o have_v they_o any_o warrant_n why_o the_o minister_n do_v not_o err_v since_o they_o constant_o do_v defend_v that_o whole_a general_a council_n yea_o and_o the_o universal_a catholic_n church_n may_v err_v and_o have_v err_v the_o minor_a i_o prove_v for_o all_o such_o protestant_n ground_v their_o faith_n upon_o the_o bible_n translate_v into_o english_a the_o which_o translation_n they_o know_v not_o whether_o it_o be_v true_a or_o false_a whether_o the_o minister_n tindall_n for_o example_n err_v or_o no_o either_o upon_o ignorance_n as_o b_o broughton_n one_o of_o the_o great_a linguist_n among_o the_o precision_n affirm_v in_o a_o epistle_n dedicate_v to_o the_o lord_n of_o the_o council_n or_o upon_o malice_n to_o induce_v the_o people_n to_o protestancy_n and_o to_o cause_v they_o to_o leave_v the_o catholic_n religion_n as_o gregory_n martin_n in_o his_o discovery_n most_o pregnant_o prove_v c_o and_o for_o that_o all_o the_o old_a translation_n be_v false_a and_o the_o genevians_n the_o worst_a the_o minister_n be_v now_o in_o mould_v a_o new_a one_o the_o which_o will_v have_v as_o great_a immunity_n from_o falsity_n as_o the_o former_a be_v void_a of_o verity_n that_o be_v both_o be_v subject_a to_o semblable_a uncertainty_n these_o error_n i_o say_v they_o know_v not_o and_o consequent_o can_v discern_v a_o true_a translation_n from_o a_o false_a and_o therefore_o must_v needs_o rely_v their_o faith_n upon_o the_o silly_a minister_n faithless_a fidelity_n which_o convince_v that_o they_o have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o protestant_n i●_n there_o be_v any_o force_n in_o this_o reason_n it_o overthrow_n papist_n a._n a._n as_o well_o as_o protestant_n because_o the_o very_a same_o thing_n may_v be_v conclude_v of_o they_o in_o this_o sort_n whosoever_o build_v his_o faith_n upon_o a_o man_n credit_n and_o fidelity_n have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o but_o every_o papist_n build_v his_o faith_n upon_o a_o man_n credit_n therefore_o no_o papist_n have_v indeed_o the_o difference_n between_o my_o proposition_n and_o he_o stand_v only_o in_o one_o word_n he_o disable_v the_o minister_n in_o particular_a i_o every_o man_n general_o and_o particular_o but_o i_o keep_v his_o sense_n whole_a and_o entire_a for_o the_o reason_n that_o he_o give_v in_o the_o proof_n of_o his_o mayor_n do_v show_v that_o therefore_o minister_n be_v not_o to_o be_v credit_v because_o be_v man_n they_o may_v err_v and_o indeed_o whatsoever_o imperfection_n be_v in_o any_o minister_n he_o have_v it_o not_o as_o he_o be_v a_o minister_n but_o as_o he_o be_v a_o man_n and_o therefore_o if_o his_o proposition_n be_v true_a i_o be_v the_o assumption_n need_v no_o other_o proof_n but_o that_o first_o father_n council_n and_o church_n be_v man_n without_o any_o special_a privilege_n of_o not_o err_v 2._o that_o at_o the_o least_o the_o particular_a teacher_n which_o tell_v the_o papist_n that_o such_o and_o such_o council_n have_v allow_v these_o book_n for_o scripture_n be_v man_n that_o may_v err_v 3._o and_o indeed_o what_o ground_n have_v any_o learned_a papist_n that_o there_o have_v be_v such_o council_n but_o the_o authority_n of_o man_n 4._o whereupon_o can_v any_o unlearned_a papist_n rely_v for_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n be_v write_v in_o greek_a or_o latin_a as_o all_o be_v but_o the_o credit_n of_o man_n 5._o nay_o more_o than_o that_o who_o can_v tell_v what_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o hebrew_n and_o greek_a word_n be_v even_o in_o the_o bible_n but_o by_o the_o report_n of_o man_n so_o that_o it_o may_v more_o true_o be_v say_v of_o the_o papist_n then_o of_o the_o protestant_n that_o they_o build_v their_o faith_n upon_o the_o credit_n of_o man_n yea_o the_o papist_n do_v proper_o and_o whole_o rely_v upon_o man_n viz._n the_o pope_n and_o his_o priest_n because_o they_o believe_v not_o by_o their_o ministry_n as_o christian_n but_o by_o their_o authority_n like_o pythagorean_n b._n b._n but_o short_o to_o make_v a_o answer_n to_o his_o reason_n if_o by_o rely_v upon_o the_o minister_n credit_n he_o mean_v that_o they_o have_v no_o assumption_n to_o the_o assumption_n ground_n to_o build_v upon_o but_o that_o i_o deny_v his_o assumption_n for_o the_o unlearned_a protestant_a rest_n upon_o the_o witness_n of_o god_n spirit_n which_o persuade_v he_o of_o the_o general_a truth_n contain_v in_o the_o translation_n and_o direct_v he_o to_o and_o in_o the_o trial_n of_o particular_n if_o to_o the_o credit_n of_o the_o minister_n he_o add_v the_o witness_n proposition_n to_o the_o proposition_n of_o the_o spirit_n i_o say_v the_o proposition_n be_v false_a for_o he_o have_v true_a faith_n that_o rely_v on_o the_o credit_n of_o the_o minister_n be_v direct_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n so_o to_o do_v if_o this_o seem_v strange_a to_o any_o papist_n let_v he_o remember_v that_o popish_a faith_n require_v no_o less_o revelation_n than_o the_o belief_n of_o protestant_n for_o according_a to_o their_o doctrine_n no_o man_n be_v persuade_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n either_o for_o the_o text_n or_o the_o interpretation_n but_o by_o the_o especial_a grace_n of_o the_o spirit_n use_v as_o they_o say_v the_o argument_n of_o the_o church_n authority_n to_o beget_v faith_n in_o the_o heart_n only_o we_o say_v the_o spirit_n use_v not_o the_o authority_n but_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n to_o persuade_v withal_o they_o affirm_v that_o man_n believe_v because_o of_o the_o church_n authority_n the_o spirit_n direct_v and_o incline_v they_o to_o rest_v thereupon_o our_o opinion_n be_v that_o the_o credit_n of_o the_o minister_n rely_v on_o his_o doctrine_n they_o
the_o church_n what_o be_v this_o but_o to_o trifle_v i_o must_v believe_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v scripture_n because_o the_o church_n tell_v i_o so_o i_o must_v believe_v that_o the_o report_n of_o the_o church_n be_v true_a because_o the_o scripture_n say_v so_o but_o for_o your_o better_a satisfaction_n in_o this_o point_n i_o refer_v you_o to_o my_o answer_n in_o the_o 2._o &_o 5._o article_n of_o this_o former_a part_n i_o can_v well_o conceive_v to_o what_o purpose_n this_o last_o clause_n be_v add_v if_o to_o prove_v the_o article_n that_o the_o protestant_n know_v not_o what_o they_o believe_v it_o be_v insufficient_a they_o that_o know_v not_o what_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v express_o distinct_o explicit_o know_v not_o what_o they_o believe_v for_o no_o more_o be_v prove_v by_o this_o reason_n but_o that_o they_o know_v not_o every_o particular_a which_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v and_o if_o this_o be_v a_o disgrace_n to_o protestant_n and_o their_o profession_n how_o shall_v papist_n &_o popery_n escape_v without_o reproach_n when_o as_o there_o be_v no_o rule_n among_o they_o to_o teach_v what_o they_o ought_v to_o believe_v express_o distinct_o etc._n etc._n and_o as_o all_o protestant_n can_v believe_v all_o the_o scripture_n distinct_o explicit_o no_o more_o can_v all_o papist_n so_o believe_v what_o the_o church_n deliver_v to_o be_v believe_v and_o therefore_o be_v their_o fides_fw-la implicita_fw-la devise_v neither_o be_v it_o prove_v that_o the_o protestant_n have_v no_o rule_n to_o know_v what_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n what_o be_v not_o because_o they_o know_v not_o express_o distinct_o explicit_o what_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v for_o a_o man_n may_v have_v a_o rule_n though_o he_o know_v not_o how_o to_o use_v it_o as_o it_o also_o fall_v out_o ordinary_o with_o unlearned_a papist_n in_o the_o rule_n that_o they_o follow_v to_o this_o same_o purpose_n if_o the_o creed_n say_v you_o be_v not_o the_o limit_n of_o belief_n the_o protestant_n have_v no_o rule_n to_o know_v what_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n i_o think_v the_o protestant_n be_v yet_o unborn_a that_o make_v the_o d._n d._n creed_n the_o rule_n of_o his_o belief_n further_o than_o to_o acknowledge_v that_o whatsoever_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n be_v of_o necessity_n to_o be_v believe_v which_o i_o trow_v no_o papist_n will_v deny_v but_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o all_o protestant_n do_v so_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o prove_v that_o the_o protestant_n have_v no_o rule_n whereby_o to_o know_v what_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n but_o that_o they_o have_v a_o unperfect_a rule_n to_o be_v short_a who_o know_v not_o that_o the_o protestant_n make_v the_o whole_a scripture_n the_o rule_n of_o their_o belief_n hold_v themselves_o bind_v in_o conscience_n to_o acknowledge_v all_o thing_n contain_v therein_o to_o be_v the_o most_o true_a word_n of_o god_n and_o that_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n there_o be_v nothing_o necessary_o to_o be_v believe_v for_o salvation_n whereas_o the_o papist_n disable_v the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n to_o establish_v the_o fancy_n of_o mortal_a man_n join_v the_o unwritten_a tradition_n of_o i_o know_v not_o who_o in_o equal_a authority_n with_o the_o write_a word_n of_o the_o almighty_a god_n but_o the_o creed_n say_v you_o be_v not_o the_o limit_n of_o faith_n that_o the_o creed_n be_v no_o perfect_a rule_n of_o our_o belief_n we_o be_v so_o far_o from_o deny_v that_o we_o make_v this_o reason_n one_o of_o the_o ground_n whereupon_o we_o build_v our_o persuasion_n that_o because_o of_o the_o unperfectnesse_n thereof_o it_o be_v not_o pen_v by_o the_o apostle_n whereas_o if_o it_o have_v be_v it_o will_v have_v be_v perfect_a and_o canonical_a scripture_n such_o as_o yet_o it_o never_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v howsoever_o we_o willing_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o but_o sound_v and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n in_o the_o scripture_n so_o much_o the_o more_o wrong_n have_v this_o slanderer_n do_v we_o to_o charge_v any_o of_o we_o with_o the_o denial_n of_o any_o one_o article_n thereof_o especial_o since_o no_o heretic_n be_v ever_o charge_v with_o the_o denial_n of_o scripture_n because_o they_o misinterpret_v it_o and_o yet_o by_o this_o author_n judgement_n the_o creed_n be_v not_o so_o bare_a as_o here_o he_o will_v fain_o make_v it_o for_o in_o the_o second_o part_n of_o this_o article_n he_o teach_v we_o that_o by_o believe_v the_o communion_n of_o saint_n we_o believe_v first_o that_o there_o be_v seven_o sacrament_n second_o that_o christ_n be_v bodily_a present_n in_o the_o eucharist_n three_o that_o we_o must_v pray_v to_o the_o saint_n four_o that_o we_o must_v pray_v for_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n in_o the_o four_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o by_o believe_v the_o article_n of_o remission_n of_o sin_n we_o believe_v that_o baptism_n take_v away_o the_o be_v of_o sin_n they_o that_o deny_v some_o article_n of_o their_o creed_n say_v you_o have_v e._n e._n no_o rule_n to_o know_v what_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n they_o that_o deny_v all_o the_o article_n of_o their_o creed_n have_v indeed_o no_o rule_n suppose_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o rule_n but_o the_o creed_n but_o so_o much_o of_o the_o creed_n as_o they_o deny_v not_o they_o have_v still_o for_o a_o rule_n to_o know_v what_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n but_o the_o protestant_n say_v you_o deny_v three_o article_n of_o their_o creed_n and_o the_o puritant_n five_o he_o that_o make_v difference_n between_o the_o protestant_n and_o article_n look_v in_o my_o answer_n to_o the_o next_o article_n puritan_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n do_v it_o either_o ignorant_o or_o malicious_o but_o to_o the_o several_a point_n they_o that_o believe_v say_v you_o that_o to_o be_v the_o catholic_a f._n f._n church_n which_o be_v interrupt_v 1400._o year_n and_o be_v contain_v within_o the_o narrow_a bound_n of_o england_n deny_v the_o catholic_a church_n the_o article_n i_o believe_v the_o holy_a catholic_n church_n do_v not_o teach_v we_o how_o to_o know_v which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n but_o enjoine_v we_o to_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_n church_n which_o we_o glad_o acknowledge_v viz._n that_o there_o always_o have_v be_v be_v and_o shall_v be_v a_o holy_a church_n of_o christ_n which_o since_o his_o break_n down_o of_o the_o partition_n wall_n be_v no_o long_o tie_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d place_n jerusalem_n rome_n etc._n etc._n but_o be_v spread_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o face_n of_o the_o whole_a earth_n neither_o can_v you_o 〈◊〉_d think_v that_o the_o catholicknesse_n of_o the_o church_n requir●●_n continual_a be_v in_o all_o place_n at_o once_o for_o then_o there_o 〈◊〉_d as_o any_o catholic_a church_n in_o the_o world_n nor_o i_o suppose_v 〈◊〉_d at_o the_o least_o have_v you_o forget_v that_o according_a 〈◊〉_d our_o own_o doctrine_n the_o church_n shall_v be_v hide_v in_o the_o 〈◊〉_d all_o the_o time_n of_o antichrist_n tyranny_n then_o this_o will_v be_v 〈◊〉_d vincible_a argument_n against_o the_o church_n it_o be_v not_o universal_a 〈◊〉_d ●lace_n therefore_o it_o be_v not_o the_o holy_a catholic_n church_n 〈◊〉_d the_o force_n of_o your_o reason_n be_v very_o feeble_a in_o the_o first_o 〈◊〉_d it_o wherein_o the_o strength_n of_o it_o consist_v but_o admit_v we_o 〈◊〉_d deceive_v in_o take_v that_o church_n to_o be_v universal_a for_o time_n and_o place_n which_o be_v not_o universal_a yet_o as_o long_o as_o we_o confe●_n 〈◊〉_d there_o be_v such_o a_o church_n we_o can_v be_v just_o charge_v to_o 〈◊〉_d that_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n but_o the_o protestant_a 〈◊〉_d you_o believe_v that_o to_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n which_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 1400._o year_n therefore_o they_o deny_v the_o article_n of_o bele●●●_n 〈◊〉_d catholic_n church_n but_o they_o do_v not_o 〈◊〉_d ●peares_v by_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o article_n beside_o ●●●_o protestant_n do_v not_o hold_v that_o the_o church_n in_o england_n be_v 〈◊〉_d catholic_a church_n but_o only_o that_o it_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d church_n which_o reach_v to_o all_o time_n and_o place_n and_o 〈◊〉_d word_n as_o i_o say_v in_o the_o first_o article_n we_o deny_v not_o to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d the_o necessity_n of_o catholicness_n but_o of_o visiblenes_n 〈◊〉_d our_o church_n be_v not_o so_o narrow_a as_o you_o will_v bear_v the_o 〈◊〉_d in_o hand_n as_o the_o harmony_n of_o confession_n will_v prove_v to_o 〈◊〉_d man_n that_o will_v but_o vouchsafe_v to_o read_v it_o for_o howsoever_o 〈◊〉_d some_o church_n of_o germany_n and_o we_o there_o be_v some_o 〈◊〉_d in_o matter_n of_o importance_n yet_o neither_o be_v they_o such_o 〈◊〉_d erect_o overthrow_v the_o foundation_n and_o both_o the_o french_a 〈◊〉_d flemish_a church_n agree_v with_o
the_o communion_n of_o saint_n some_o way_n then_o belike_o there_o be_v saint_n in_o purgatory_n and_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n militant_a be_v saint_n but_o why_o say_v you_o nothing_o of_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n be_v there_o no_o communion_n betwixt_o they_o &_o those_o in_o purgatory_n yet_o be_v they_o all_o member_n of_o one_o body_n &_o i_o pray_v you_o what_o communion_n be_v there_o betwixt_o these_o three_o kind_n of_o saint_n what_o do_v the_o saint_n in_o purgatory_n in_o requital_n of_o the_o triumphant_a and_o militant_a saint_n kindness_n what_o nothing_o at_o all_o why_o then_o what_o necessity_n be_v there_o to_o enforce_v any_o such_o duty_n on_o our_o part_n towards_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n we_o as_o you_o say_v do_v not_o only_o pray_v but_o offer_v up_o a_o bodily_a and_o spiritual_a sacrifice_n for_o they_o in_o purgatory_n to_o god_n what_o reason_n be_v there_o then_o they_o shall_v not_o pray_v to_o we_o as_o well_o as_o we_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n triumphant_a who_o do_v but_o half_a so_o much_o for_o we_o and_o the_o less_o half_a too_o as_o for_o the_o place_n in_o the_o margin_n no_o blast_n be_v it_o never_o so_o great_a can_v kindle_v the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n by_o any_o heat_n that_o 15._o 1._o cor._n 3._o 13._o 15._o will_v arise_v from_o they_o the_o former_a be_v concern_v the_o trial_n of_o doctrine_n by_o the_o fire_n of_o god_n word_n some_o man_n work_n shall_v burn_v therefore_o there_o be_v some_o in_o purgatory_n burn_v some_o what_o work_v say_v the_o apostle_n not_o man_n if_o any_o man_n work_n 15._o ver_fw-la 15._o burn_v he_o shall_v loose_v his_o labour_n but_o himself_o shall_v be_v save_v yet_o as_o it_o be_v by_o fire_n therefore_o there_o be_v some_o saint_n burn_v in_o the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n but_o that_o neither_o all_o man_n work_n be_v speak_v of_o nor_o any_o assay_n be_v to_o be_v make_v by_o purge_v fire_n nor_o these_o place_n mean_v of_o purgatory_n it_o may_v appear_v by_o these_o reason_n 1._o there_o be_v not_o any_o two_o place_n in_o all_o the_o new_a testament_n of_o any_o one_o point_n so_o full_a of_o controversy_n for_o interpretation_n as_o these_o therefore_o be_v they_o unfit_a and_o unsufficient_a to_o prove_v so_o doubtful_a a_o matter_n as_o this_o of_o purgatory_n 2._o beside_o the_o former_a of_o they_o be_v whole_o allegorical_a entativa_fw-la theologia_n symbolic_v a_o non_fw-la est_fw-la argum_fw-la entativa_fw-la foundation_n maister-builder_n gould_n silver_n wood_n hay_o straw_n and_o therefore_o by_o the_o rule_n of_o disputation_n in_o divinity_n altogether_o unmeete_a for_o proof_n of_o doctrine_n in_o matter_n of_o controversy_n 3._o the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n purge_v all_o bad_a work_n this_o here_o medle_n with_o nothing_o but_o false_a doctrine_n as_o it_o be_v manifest_a 1._o because_o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o builder_n only_o such_o as_o himself_o &_o apollos_n vers_fw-la 6._o 2._o the_o reward_n that_o shall_v be_v receive_v vers_fw-la 14._o be_v to_o be_v give_v according_a to_o the_o labour_n of_o the_o minister_n vers_fw-la 8._o 3._o the_o people_n what_o good_a work_n soever_o they_o have_v be_v in_o this_o place_n consider_v but_o as_o the_o building_n or_o husbandry_n vers_fw-la 9_o 4._o the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n do_v not_o burn_v the_o work_n but_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o worker_n but_o this_o fire_n shall_v burn_v the_o work_n not_o the_o workman_n vers_fw-la 1._o 3._o 14._o 15._o 5._o the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n do_v not_o consume_v but_o purify_v this_o fire_n do_v not_o purify_v but_o consume_v vers_n 15._o 6._o all_o man_n work_n must_v be_v try_v by_o this_o fire_n vers_fw-la 12._o 13._o but_o not_o by_o the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n for_o that_o belong_v to_o they_o only_o that_o have_v not_o make_v satisfaction_n for_o their_o sin_n or_o not_o be_v absolve_v from_o they_o by_o the_o sacrament_n of_o penance_n since_o it_o be_v for_o the_o most_o part_n agree_v upon_o that_o the_o fire_n vers_fw-la 13._o do_v not_o signify_v purgatory_n what_o reason_n shall_v persuade_v we_o that_o this_o do_v vers_fw-la 15._o the_o other_o place_n have_v trouble_v all_o the_o divine_n that_o ever_o 29._o 1._o cor._n 15._o 29._o write_v upon_o it_o both_o for_o the_o grammar_n and_o the_o sense_n of_o it_o it_o shall_v be_v therefore_o sufficient_a for_o i_o to_o answer_v that_o till_o the_o popish_a interpretation_n be_v better_a prove_v we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o seek_v for_o the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n in_o the_o baptism_n of_o or_o for_o the_o dead_a especial_o since_o no_o ancient_a writer_n have_v so_o expound_v it_o neither_o can_v it_o serve_v saint_n paul_n purpose_n be_v so_o understand_v for_o how_o can_v the_o resurrection_n of_o the_o body_n be_v prove_v by_o pray_v for_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n but_o oh_o the_o heat_n of_o popish_a charity_n that_o can_v abide_v to_o let_v so_o many_o soul_n fry_v in_o purgatory_n whereas_o multiply_v of_o mass_n will_v quench_v the_o fire_n and_o free_a the_o poor_a wretch_n or_o at_o least_o their_o holy_a father_n the_o pope_n may_v deliver_v as_o many_o as_o please_v he_o by_o plenary_a indulgence_n and_o yet_o these_o man_n cry_v out_o upon_o we_o for_o want_v of_o charity_n because_o we_o will_v not_o help_v they_o by_o prayer_n for_o who_o we_o be_v sure_a that_o all_o the_o prayer_n that_o can_v be_v make_v be_v either_o needless_a or_o bootless_a be_v these_o th●_n reason_n that_o must_v persuade_v man_n of_o judgement_n etc._n etc._n they_o that_o acknowledge_v not_o remission_n of_o sin_n as_o a_o effect_n in_o k._n k._n the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n deny_v the_o article_n of_o remission_n of_o sin_n then_o it_o shall_v seem_v the_o meaning_n of_o the_o article_n be_v that_o we_o believe_v the_o remission_n of_o sin_n as_o a_o effect_n of_o baptism_n i_o marvel_v how_o many_o popish_a priest_n will_v give_v a_o man_n this_o exposition_n that_o shall_v ask_v they_o the_o meaning_n of_o this_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n there_o be_v more_o reason_n to_o say_v i_o believe_v that_o remission_n of_o sin_n be_v a_o privilege_n belong_v to_o the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n which_o our_o saviour_n christ_n have_v purchase_v with_o his_o blood_n but_o if_o the_o meaning_n be_v of_o baptism_n than_o we_o have_v find_v in_o the_o creed_n that_o baptism_n be_v a_o sacrament_n which_o a_o little_a afore_o be_v deny_v to_o show_v the_o insufficiency_n of_o the_o creed_n to_o be_v the_o rule_n and_o limit_v of_o our_o belief_n he_o that_o confess_v that_o jesus_n christ_n have_v pay_v the_o ransom_n for_o the_o sin_n of_o his_o church_n by_o his_o blood_n and_o procure_v the_o pardon_n of_o they_o can_v just_o be_v charge_v with_o deny_v this_o article_n of_o remission_n howsoever_o he_o do_v err_v in_o judge_v of_o the_o force_n and_o use_v of_o baptism_n but_o the_o protestant_n say_v you_o acknowledge_v not_o remission_n of_o sin_n as_o a_o effect_n of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n the_o protestant_n acknowledge_v the_o same_o effect_n in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n which_o the_o church_n of_o god_n acknowledge_v and_o receive_v in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o circumcision_n that_o the_o patriarch_n and_o father_n of_o christ_n church_n before_o his_o come_n receive_v the_o forgiveness_n of_o sin_n no_o christian_a can_v doubt_v that_o either_o they_o have_v it_o by_o the_o effect_n of_o the_o sacrament_n or_o that_o your_o sacrament_n have_v another_o effect_n in_o substance_n then_o they_o have_v no_o papist_n can_v prove_v at_o least_o this_o man_n have_v not_o prove_v but_o short_o to_o deliver_v our_o opinion_n we_o believe_v and_o profess_v that_o every_o one_o who_o be_v effectual_o baptize_v have_v receive_v forgiveness_n of_o all_o his_o sin_n original_a actual_a past_a to_o come_v and_o if_o you_o will_v mortal_a and_o venial_a for_o the_o guilt_n and_o for_o the_o punishment_n for_o the_o eternal_a and_o temporal_a punishment_n but_o we_o deny_v first_o that_o all_o which_o have_v baptismum_fw-la fluminis_fw-la the_o baptism_n of_o water_n have_v also_o baptismum_fw-la flaminis_fw-la the_o baptism_n of_o the_o spirit_n second_o that_o none_o have_v forgiveness_n but_o they_o which_o be_v baptize_v three_o that_o every_o man_n that_o be_v baptize_v receave_v forgiveness_n of_o sin_n which_o may_v thus_o appear_v because_o many_o a_o man_n baptise_a be_v everlasting_o damn_v but_o no_o man_n that_o have_v his_o sin_n forgeven_v he_o be_v damn_v if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v forgive_v but_o now_o be_v not_o you_o destroy_v the_o nature_n of_o forgiveness_n which_o depend_v not_o upon_o any_o condition_n to_o come_v if_o it_o do_v then_o can_v it_o not_o be_v true_o affirm_v that_o a_o man_n by_o baptism_n receave_v forgiveness_n absolute_o of_o those_o
end_v and_o heresy_n abolish_v either_o proposition_n to_o the_o principal_a proposition_n by_o convince_a those_o that_o maintain_v they_o of_o error_n or_o by_o command_v they_o to_o forbear_v all_o meddle_v therein_o the_o former_a be_v the_o more_o proper_a and_o orderly_a course_n may_v be_v perform_v by_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n without_o any_o infallible_a interpreter_n of_o the_o scripture_n for_o it_o be_v very_o possible_a to_o understand_v the_o true_a meaning_n thereof_o in_o most_o place_n and_o so_o to_o prove_v it_o by_o the_o analogy_n of_o faith_n ground_v upon_o evident_a text_n and_o by_o the_o examine_n of_o the_o text_n that_o be_v in_o question_n that_o a_o reasonable_a man_n shall_v not_o be_v able_a to_o withhold_v his_o assent_n without_o manifest_a blindness_n if_o not_o wilfulness_n if_o you_o ask_v i_o what_o shall_v become_v of_o other_o place_n that_o be_v very_o hard_a i_o answer_v that_o we_o need_v not_o these_o for_o the_o confirm_v of_o any_o point_n of_o doctrine_n as_o if_o without_o they_o it_o can_v not_o sufficient_o be_v do_v further_o i_o say_v that_o he_o which_o maintain_v any_o point_n that_o he_o be_v not_o able_a to_o avow_v by_o any_o but_o some_o such_o place_n as_o this_o author_n do_v purgatory_n be_v no_o way_n to_o be_v allow_v or_o bear_v with_o the_o other_o mean_n of_o enjoin_v silence_n and_o quietness_n be_v partly_o in_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n but_o principal_o in_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n who_o god_n have_v make_v sovereign_a governor_n for_o the_o outward_a peace_n and_o prosperity_n of_o his_o church_n this_o in_o order_n must_v follow_v the_o former_a yet_o so_o as_o that_o if_o the_o magistrate_n command_n before_o convince_a he_o must_v be_v obey_v by_o forbearance_n of_o any_o further_a proceed_n unless_o the_o charge_n be_v direct_o contrary_a to_o the_o commandment_n of_o god_n in_o which_o case_n we_o must_v answer_v with_o the_o apostle_n whether_o it_o be_v right_a in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n 40._o act._n 4._o 18._o &_o 5._o 40._o to_o obey_v you_o rather_o than_o god_n judge_v you_o but_o the_o protestant_n say_v he_o admit_v the_o sole_a scripture_n as_o assumption_n principal_a assumption_n umpere_n etc._n etc._n what_o course_n be_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o the_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n assumption_n to_o the_o principal_a assumption_n i_o have_v partly_o show_v already_o in_o the_o 2._o and_o 3._o and_o in_o this_o 5._o article_n and_o it_o shall_v appear_v more_o full_o in_o the_o particular_a examine_n of_o this_o discourse_n according_a as_o it_o be_v set_v down_o they_o say_v he_o that_o certain_o believe_v the_o church_n can_v proposition_n proof_n of_o the_o principal_a proposition_n err_v have_v mean_n to_o settle_v themselves_o in_o unity_n of_o belief_n to_o end_v controversy_n and_o abolish_v heresy_n and_o contrariwise_o they_o that_o do_v not_o believe_v it_o have_v none_o when_o it_o be_v prove_v that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v than_o the_o proposition_n to_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o principal_a proposition_n proposition_n shall_v be_v grant_v but_o till_o then_o it_o deserve_v no_o allowance_n and_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v yet_o what_o heretical_a church_n may_v not_o have_v the_o same_o quietness_n upon_o the_o same_o persuasion_n indeed_o one_o of_o the_o three_o point_n even_o that_o which_o the_o papist_n stand_v most_o upon_o viz._n their_o outward_a quiet_a estate_n may_v in_o part_n ensue_v upon_o this_o belief_n though_o it_o be_v most_o erroneous_a for_o this_o persuasion_n that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v be_v sufficient_a to_o stay_v all_o controversy_n when_o the_o church_n have_v show_v her_o opinion_n of_o they_o and_o yet_o it_o be_v with_o they_o only_o sufficient_a that_o acknowledge_v this_o false_a privilege_n of_o the_o church_n &_o therefore_o it_o follow_v but_o in_o part_n because_o you_o must_v first_o persuade_v those_o that_o contend_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o this_o assertion_n ere_o you_o can_v work_v by_o it_o upon_o their_o conscience_n so_o that_o although_o this_o mean_n suppose_v the_o truth_n of_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o effectual_a yet_o it_o can_v breed_v this_o effect_n in_o all_o that_o at_o any_o time_n contend_v about_o religion_n but_o in_o those_o only_a that_o believe_v it_o for_o example_n put_v case_n that_o some_o of_o the_o church_n be_v persuade_v that_o the_o church_n have_v not_o authority_n to_o rob_v the_o people_n of_o the_o cup_n shall_v call_v this_o privilege_n of_o err_v into_o question_n how_o will_v your_o church_n take_v up_o this_o controversy_n will_v she_o urge_v the_o conclusion_n i_o can_v err_v or_o will_v she_o procure_v her_o bishop_n abbot_n cardinal_n etc._n etc._n to_o avouch_v asmuch_o of_o she_o what_o be_v this_o but_o ask_v my_o fellow_n if_o i_o be_v a_o thief_n yes_o it_o be_v somewhat_o worse_o for_o it_o be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o he_o that_o be_v arraign_v for_o felony_n shall_v say_v i_o tell_v you_o i_o be_o not_o a_o thief_n be_v he_o not_o worthy_a to_o be_v acquit_v trow_v you_o and_o such_o will_v your_o proof_n be_v in_o this_o question_n but_o if_o the_o church_n in_o this_o case_n can_v bring_v out_o a_o charter_n and_o plead_v that_o for_o this_o privilege_n her_o adversary_n must_v needs_o be_v convert_v or_o at_o least_o may_v be_v confound_v and_o so_o perhaps_o the_o controversy_n end_v yet_o not_o by_o the_o church_n but_o by_o the_o scripture_n authority_n which_o as_o i_o must_v hereafter_o show_v be_v the_o mean_n that_o god_n have_v appoint_v for_o that_o purpose_n but_o it_o may_v perhaps_o be_v proposition_n 1._o proof_n that_o the_o church_n can_v not_o err_v proposition_n to_o that_o proposition_n prove_v that_o the_o church_n can_v err_v let_v we_o hear_v the_o reason_n if_o they_o that_o will_v not_o hear_v the_o church_n must_v be_v account_v as_o ethnic_n and_o publican_n the_o church_n can_v err_v for_o if_o the_o church_n can_v err_v than_o be_v there_o no_o reason_n why_o he_o that_o will_v not_o hear_v she_o shall_v be_v so_o account_v of_o when_o the_o pope_n send_v his_o legate_n with_o pardon_n a_o beg_n about_o the_o country_n command_v they_o to_o preach_v to_o the_o people_n of_o the_o virtue_n &_o efficacy_n of_o those_o indulgence_n be_v they_o not_o as_o ethnic_n or_o publican_n or_o worse_o that_o shall_v refuse_v to_o hear_v their_o sermon_n and_o may_v i_o hereupon_o reasonable_o conclude_v that_o therefore_o they_o that_o preach_v they_o can_v err_v why_o shall_v i_o not_o say_v the_o like_a of_o any_o popish_a priest_n moncke_n or_o friar_n be_v authorise_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o preach_v who_o can_v refuse_v to_o hear_v they_o and_o not_o be_v guilty_a of_o contempt_n against_o your_o church_n apostolic_a yet_o i_o hope_v these_o may_v err_v whereupon_o i_o conclude_v that_o therefore_o your_o proposion_n be_v false_a if_o they_o that_o will_v not_o hear_v the_o church_n must_v be_v account_v as_o ethnic_n the_o church_n can_v err_v but_o he_o that_o will_v not_o hear_v the_o church_n be_v to_o be_v count_v as_o a_o assumption_n assumption_n ethnic_a what_o simple_o if_o he_o do_v not_o hear_v the_o church_n nay_o rather_o assumption_n to_o the_o assumption_n if_o in_o that_o case_n set_v down_o by_o our_o saviour_n he_o do_v not_o hear_v she_o now_o the_o case_n be_v this_o if_o one_o brother_n or_o christian_n sin_n against_o another_o he_o that_o be_v offend_v must_v rebuke_v the_o other_o in_o private_a betwixt_o they_o alone_o 2._o if_o this_o prevail_v not_o with_o he_o he_o must_v the_o second_o time_n rebuke_v he_o and_o that_o before_o one_o or_o two_o witness_n 3._o if_o this_o will_v not_o serve_v he_o must_v complain_v of_o he_o to_o the_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n 4._o if_o their_o censure_n will_v do_v no_o good_a with_o he_o he_o be_v to_o be_v account_v no_o member_n of_o the_o church_n after_o excommunication_n let_v we_o now_o draw_v a_o argument_n from_o this_o place_n and_o see_v what_o it_o make_v for_o the_o church_n infinite_a authority_n he_o that_o be_v thus_o proceed_v withal_o obey_v not_o the_o just_a censure_n of_o the_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o confess_v of_o his_o sin_n and_o satisfy_v of_o his_o brother_n &_o the_o congregation_n be_v to_o be_v account_v a_o ethnic_n therefore_o whatsoever_o the_o church_n say_v must_v be_v believe_v or_o therefore_o the_o church_n can_v err_v who_o see_v not_o the_o weakness_n of_o this_o reason_n he_o that_o obey_v not_o the_o church_n in_o a_o just_a censure_n be_v no_o long_o any_o member_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o he_o that_o simple_o in_o all_o thing_n obey_v she_o not_o acknowledge_v that_o she_o can_v err_v be_v a_o infidel_n here_o it_o will_v be_v further_o consider_v that_o by_o the_o
the_o pope_n subject_n to_o the_o council_n pisa_n constance_n and_o basill_n what_o to_o that_o of_o florence_n under_o charlemaigne_n which_o condemn_v worship_v of_o image_n and_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a for_o allow_v it_o bellarmine_n say_v they_o be_v not_o simple_o necessary_a and_o that_o more_o heresy_n have_v be_v abolish_v without_o they_o then_o by_o they_o nazianzen_n whole_o mislike_v they_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o that_o of_o nice_n end_v not_o the_o controversy_n now_o if_o neither_o the_o church_n have_v it_o in_o general_a nor_o especial_o general_n council_n how_o shall_v the_o pastor_n and_o ancient_a father_n come_v by_o it_o for_o that_o which_o be_v add_v of_o their_o teach_n on_o truth_n with_o joint_a consent_n be_v but_o to_o blear_v the_o eye_n of_o the_o ignorant_a can_v there_o be_v more_o joint_a consent_n then_o in_o general_a council_n may_v they_o err_v when_o they_o seek_v the_o truth_n with_o grave_n and_o serious_a advice_n in_o great_a multitude_n and_o can_v they_o not_o be_v deceive_v when_o they_o inquire_v after_o it_o private_o in_o their_o several_a study_n who_o know_v not_o that_o the_o error_n of_o some_o one_o man_n renown_v for_o learning_n and_o godliness_n draw_v whole_a church_n after_o it_o many_o time_n especial_o since_o custom_n like_o a_o tyrant_n rule_v over_o the_o wit_n and_o will_n even_o of_o learned_a man_n who_o ofttimes_o think_v it_o more_o discretion_n to_o retain_v a_o small_a error_n with_o quietness_n then_o to_o restore_v the_o truth_n with_o great_a trouble_n and_o hazard_v but_o where_o shall_v a_o man_n find_v this_o joint_a consent_n you_o imagine_v i_o dare_v be_v bold_a to_o say_v in_o very_a few_o point_n of_o controversy_n at_o this_o day_n if_o in_o any_o yet_o say_v it_o be_v easy_o to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o write_n that_o now_o be_v extant_a alas_o what_o a_o small_a number_n of_o book_n have_v we_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o have_v be_v write_v what_o gap_n be_v there_o in_o the_o course_n of_o succession_n what_o maim_n in_o often_o copy_v out_o book_n by_o writing_n what_o mistake_v in_o translation_n many_o greek_a copy_n be_v lose_v and_o the_o latin_a translation_n of_o they_o only_o remain_v and_o who_o can_v tell_v what_o indices_fw-la purgatory_n have_v be_v devise_v &_o enjoin_v before_o this_o last_o assembly_n of_o trent_n especial_o since_o canon_n have_v be_v foist_v into_o ancient_a council_n by_o pope_n of_o rome_n for_o the_o establish_n of_o their_o lawless_a tyranny_n therefore_o though_o we_o refuse_v not_o to_o make_v trial_n of_o our_o doctrine_n by_o the_o father_n writing_n namely_o those_o that_o be_v indeed_o ancient_a in_o the_o first_o 600._o year_n before_o the_o kingdom_n of_o anthichrist_n yet_o we_o receive_v they_o as_o witness_n of_o the_o truth_n not_o judge_n and_o use_v they_o as_o we_o use_v old_a coin_n not_o for_o a_o assay_n to_o try_v by_o they_o the_o pureness_n of_o mettle_n but_o for_o a_o standard_n to_o show_v what_o money_n be_v currant_n in_o several_a age_n and_o place_n where_o they_o speak_v according_a to_o scripture_n we_o acknowledge_v the_o good_a grace_n of_o god_n in_o they_o to_o their_o deserve_a commendation_n where_o they_o write_v of_o themselves_o we_o observe_v example_n of_o man_n frailty_n and_o ignorance_n to_o which_o we_o make_v no_o doubt_n but_o all_o writer_n since_o the_o apostle_n and_o except_v they_o have_v be_v be_v and_o shall_v be_v subject_a to_o what_o trial_n then_o shall_v we_o be_v take_v our_o cause_n to_o what_o else_o but_o to_o the_o scripture_n of_o god_n will_v a_o man_n think_v there_o shall_v be_v any_o profess_a christian_n find_v that_o will_v mislike_v of_o this_o course_n and_o yet_o our_o papist_n do_v they_o can_v abide_v to_o hear_v that_o the_o sole_a scripture_n shall_v be_v umpere_n and_o judge_v in_o matter_n of_o controversy_n belike_o they_o have_v find_v a_o better_a even_o the_o pope_n to_o who_o they_o attribute_v more_o whatsoever_o they_o talk_v of_o the_o church_n council_n and_o father_n then_o to_o all_o three_o together_o save_v that_o by_o church_n perhaps_o they_o mean_v the_o pope_n who_o they_o make_v the_o head_n and_o husband_n of_o it_o be_v not_o afraid_a blasphemous_o to_o write_v that_o all_o the_o name_n that_o be_v give_v to_o christ_n as_o he_o be_v over_o the_o church_n belong_v to_o the_o pope_n as_o well_o as_o to_o christ_n though_o at_o the_o second_o hand_n as_o be_v christ_n or_o rather_o as_o they_o say_v god_n vicar_n perhaps_o they_o will_v say_v as_o good_a do_v so_o as_o remit_v all_o to_o every_o man_n private_a spirit_n and_o singular_a exposition_n sure_o much_o about_o one_o &_o yet_o by_o this_o late_a it_o may_v come_v to_o pass_v that_o though_o many_o err_v yet_o many_o also_o may_v hold_v the_o truth_n whereas_o by_o the_o former_a if_o one_o be_v deceive_v all_o must_v lie_v in_o ignorance_n and_o error_n since_o no_o man_n may_v so_o much_o as_o say_v unto_o he_o why_o d●st_v thou_o so_o but_o that_o we_o permit_v not_o the_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n to_o every_o man_n private_a fancy_n i_o show_v in_o handle_v the_o 2._o article_n yet_o this_o inconvenience_n lie_v upon_o we_o that_o we_o can_v not_o possible_o wind_v ourselves_o out_o of_o the_o labyrinth_n of_o so_o many_o controversy_n wherewith_o we_o be_v now_o inveigle_v and_o intricate_v when_o we_o lack_v help_v we_o will_v send_v for_o their_o pope_n or_o if_o need_v be_v make_v one_o of_o our_o own_o as_o yet_o thing_n be_v not_o in_o so_o desperate_a a_o estate_n that_o we_o shall_v be_v enforce_v to_o seek_v any_o such_o remedy_n for_o the_o irreconciliable_a jar_n betwixt_o we_o be_v neither_o as_o he_o slander_v we_o in_o any_o essential_a point_n of_o faith_n nor_o such_o as_o hinder_v we_o from_o agree_v in_o that_o doctrine_n which_o be_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n establish_v among_o we_o and_o publish_v in_o the_o book_n of_o article_n 1562._o that_o the_o protestant_n and_o the_o puritan_n as_o the_o papist_n b._n b._n term_v they_o differ_v in_o essential_a point_n of_o faith_n he_o undertake_v to_o prove_v by_o this_o reason_n they_o that_o differ_v about_o the_o king_n supremacy_n the_o bishop_n authority_n the_o observation_n of_o feast_n etc._n etc._n differ_v in_o essential_a point_n of_o faith_n but_o the_o protestant_n and_o puritan_n differ_v in_o these_o therefore_o they_o differ_v in_o essential_a point_n of_o faith_n if_o by_o essential_a point_n of_o faith_n all_o matter_n of_o truth_n in_o divinity_n be_v signify_v we_o grant_v his_o conclusion_n add_v further_o that_o the_o church_n be_v never_o yet_o so_o happy_a as_o to_o be_v without_o difference_n of_o opinion_n among_o divine_n in_o any_o one_o age_n since_o the_o begin_n of_o christian_n religion_n if_o he_o mean_v by_o these_o word_n such_o thing_n as_o be_v necessary_o to_o be_v believe_v to_o salvation_n or_o to_o the_o profession_n of_o christianity_n i_o deny_v his_o proposition_n in_o all_o or_o the_o most_o part_n of_o it_o as_o in_o handle_v the_o particular_n it_o shall_v appear_v that_o the_o protestant_n hold_v the_o king_n supremacy_n to_o be_v a_o essential_a point_n of_o faith_n so_o that_o he_o which_o doubt_v of_o it_o can_v be_v either_o in_o truth_n or_o in_o profession_n a_o christian_n neither_o the_o confession_n of_o our_o church_n no_o the_o writing_n of_o any_o of_o our_o divine_n prove_v indeed_o seditious_a papist_n will_v bear_v the_o world_n in_o hand_n that_o their_o traitorous_a priest_n and_o jesuit_n have_v be_v execute_v for_o religion_n and_o not_o for_o treason_n in_o deny_v the_o king_n supremacy_n but_o neither_o protestant_a nor_o puritan_n ever_o yet_o believe_v they_o both_o which_o do_v constant_o and_o joint_o avow_v that_o although_o it_o be_v not_o a_o heresy_n of_o so_o high_a a_o nature_n yet_o it_o be_v a_o wicked_a error_n against_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n word_n and_o a_o opinion_n not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v in_o any_o christian_n or_o civil_a state_n there_o be_v no_o dissent_n betwixt_o the_o protestant_n and_o the_o puritan_n about_o the_o king_n supremacy_n but_o the_o difference_n that_o be_v arise_v from_o the_o diverse_a conceit_n each_o part_n have_v of_o the_o thing_n by_o his_o majesty_n enjoin_v as_o it_o shall_v appear_v in_o due_a place_n caluin_n do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o charge_n henry_n the_o eight_o with_o assume_v the_o sovereignty_n he_o speak_v of_o but_o only_o lay_v the_o fault_n upon_o certain_a man_n who_o in_o a_o unconsiderate_a zeal_n as_o he_o say_v ascribe_v such_o a_o power_n to_o he_o as_o by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v not_o warrantable_a wherein_o these_o two_o point_n make_v he_o mislike_v the_o matter_n first_o that_o he_o be_v call_v
the_o subscription_n require_v by_o statute_n neither_o do_v the_o puritan_n deny_v that_o baptism_n wash_v away_o all_o sin_n as_o a_o sacrament_n and_o seal_v up_o the_o forgiveness_n thereof_o neither_o do_v the_o protestant_n believe_v any_o other_o thing_n of_o it_o or_o ascribe_v any_o other_o virtue_n to_o it_o the_o puritan_n do_v not_o condemn_v the_o communion_n book_n as_o irreligious_a but_o acknowledge_v it_o lawful_a to_o be_v use_v and_o both_o have_v use_v it_o heretofore_o and_o be_v ready_a to_o use_v it_o again_o howsoever_o they_o desire_v to_o be_v forbear_v in_o the_o use_n of_o some_o thing_n in_o it_o which_o to_o they_o seem_v unwarrantable_a they_o entreat_v to_o be_v spare_v for_o the_o cross_n in_o baptism_n and_o whereas_o diverse_a of_o late_o have_v yield_v to_o it_o the_o ground_n of_o their_o yield_a be_v that_o it_o be_v no_o significant_a ceremony_n but_o only_o a_o sign_n betwixt_o man_n and_o man_n and_o so_o indifferent_a as_o they_o think_v that_o there_o be_v some_o difference_n betwixt_o we_o we_o deny_v not_o nor_o that_o this_o be_v one_o of_o they_o concern_v the_o sign_n in_o confirmation_n but_o this_o be_v far_o from_o be_v a_o essential_a point_n of_o faith_n and_o so_o be_v this_o of_o use_v vestment_n music_n etc._n etc._n wherein_o also_o there_o be_v diverse_a opinion_n on_o either_o side_n but_o i_o think_v there_o be_v no_o man_n condemn_v all_o these_o as_o will_v worship_v and_o superstitious_a yea_o there_o be_v some_o call_v puritan_n that_o take_v none_o of_o they_o all_o to_o be_v either_o will_v worship_v or_o superstitious_a and_o yet_o they_o hold_v they_o unlawful_a in_o a_o word_n there_o be_v not_o any_o difference_n to_o my_o knowledge_n betwixt_o we_o which_o may_v either_o deprive_v we_o of_o salvation_n by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n or_o bar_v we_o from_o lyve_v brotherly_a and_o christian_o as_o member_n of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o church_n and_o thus_o we_o have_v hear_v the_o strong_a argument_n of_o this_o popish_a replyer_n who_o it_o shall_v seem_v not_o rest_v much_o upon_o his_o own_o proof_n in_o the_o end_n of_o this_o first_o part_n look_v to_o hear_v some_o reason_n from_o we_o whereby_o we_o may_v approve_v ourselves_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n but_o that_o have_v be_v often_o do_v by_o our_o divine_n so_o far_o as_o we_o profess_v of_o ourselves_o for_o none_o of_o we_o ever_o undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o we_o be_v the_o true_a church_n as_o the_o papist_n dream_v of_o the_o church_n we_o be_v by_o the_o blessing_n and_o grace_n of_o god_n a_o part_n or_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n not_o the_o whole_a church_n yea_o we_o acknowledge_v that_o diverse_a particular_a church_n may_v refuse_v communion_n with_o us._n and_o yet_o both_o they_o and_o we_o remain_v member_n of_o the_o same_o true_a church_n though_o not_o without_o some_o fault_n either_o on_o both_o side_n or_o at_o least_o the_o one_o but_o the_o papist_n so_o take_v to_o themselves_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n that_o they_o condemn_v all_o for_o schismatickes_n yea_o for_o heretic_n that_o acknowledge_v not_o themselves_o to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o catholic_a romish_a church_n in_o subjection_n to_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n the_o sum_n of_o our_o proof_n be_v that_o we_o profess_v that_o religion_n which_o our_o saviour_n christ_n have_v commend_v unto_o we_o in_o the_o scripture_n of_o which_o it_o shall_v seem_v this_o man_n be_v not_o ignorant_a for_o in_o this_o very_a place_n he_o except_v against_o this_o reason_n because_o it_o be_v no_o other_o then_o that_o which_o all_o heretic_n will_v bring_v to_o condemn_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n this_o answer_n be_v insufficient_a unless_o we_o shall_v grant_v that_o our_o saviour_n bring_v no_o good_a 7._o mat._n 4._o 4._o 7._o reason_n against_o the_o devil_n in_o allege_v scripture_n because_o satan_n himself_o in_o his_o temptation_n reply_v against_o he_o by_o scripture_n who_o know_v not_o that_o in_o all_o controversy_n reason_n must_v be_v draw_v from_o the_o art_n of_o which_o the_o controversy_n be_v as_o for_o example_n what_o lawyer_n will_v offer_v to_o defend_v a_o bad_a cause_n but_o he_o will_v quote_v law_n for_o his_o purpose_n and_o shall_v this_o either_o bar_n he_o that_o plead_v against_o he_o from_o allege_v his_o book_n or_o make_v his_o plea_n of_o no_o force_n nay_o rather_o any_o man_n of_o mean_a discretion_n will_v ready_o distinguish_v and_o say_v the_o one_o make_v a_o show_n of_o law_n but_o the_o other_o have_v law_n indeed_o so_o be_v it_o in_o these_o point_n of_o controversy_n the_o papist_n and_o other_o heretic_n pretend_v that_o the_o scripture_n make_v for_o they_o but_o this_o may_v not_o prejudice_n the_o authority_n thereof_o in_o decide_v matter_n of_o controversy_n neither_o shall_v any_o true_a christian_n need_n to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o seek_v to_o ground_v his_o faith_n upon_o the_o scripture_n because_o 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you_o with_o what_o conscience_n or_o rather_o with_o what_o malice_n you_o write_v the_o arrian_n be_v blame_v by_o you_o for_o not_o regard_v council_n we_o be_v charge_v to_o contemn_v they_o where_o as_o you_o know_v in_o your_o own_o conscience_n that_o we_o receive_v both_o that_o council_n which_o the_o arrian_n refuse_v and_o all_o the_o other_o general_a and_o particular_a council_n save_o those_o that_o as_o we_o be_v persuade_v contain_v in_o they_o apparent_a falsehood_n and_o impiety_n if_o it_o be_v a_o fault_n not_o to_o receive_v all_o who_o shall_v excuse_v you_o papist_n that_o have_v whole_o reject_v seven_o general_a council_n hold_v at_o antioch_n milan_n ariminum_n ephesus_n the_o second_o two_o at_o constantinople_n against_o image_n and_o one_o at_o pisa_n and_o in_o part_n six_o other_o at_o sardis_n at_o syrmium_fw-la at_o constantinople_n in_o tr●llo_n at_o frankfurt_n at_o constance_n at_o basill_n how_o just_o all_o or_o some_o of_o these_o be_v reject_v 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ask_v be_v grant_v it_o help_v you_o nothing_o for_o what_o if_o everlasting_a life_n be_v give_v for_o work_n how_o often_o must_v you_o be_v tell_v that_o work_v and_o deserve_v be_v not_o all_o one_o we_o deny_v not_o that_o god_n will_v reward_v every_o least_o good_a work_n of_o any_o of_o his_o child_n but_o we_o can_v grant_v that_o either_o the_o reward_n he_o will_v give_v be_v everlasting_a life_n or_o that_o any_o work_n of_o his_o child_n deserve_v that_o reward_n which_o he_o will_v give_v i_o doubt_v not_o which_o be_v the_o second_o thing_n i_o note_v in_o his_o similitude_n but_o you_o papist_n yourselves_o will_v think_v it_o extreme_a presumption_n for_o any_o subject_n to_o claim_v as_o of_o merit_n that_o 1000_o pound_n a_o year_n which_o be_v promise_v by_o the_o prince_n for_o good_a service_n in_o ireland_n especial_o if_o it_o may_v be_v true_o object_v against_o such_o claim_n that_o though_o some_o few_o action_n have_v be_v valiant_o perform_v in_o part_n 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we_o any_o title_n to_o the_o kingdom_n for_o that_o be_v we_o already_o even_o in_o possession_n by_o christ_n but_o incourage_v 58._o 1._o cor._n 15._o 58._o we_o to_o christian_a obedience_n to_o be_v steadfast_a unmoveable_a abundant_a always_o in_o the_o work_n of_o the_o lord_n for_o as_o much_o as_o we_o know_v that_o our_o labour_n be_v not_o in_o vain_a in_o the_o lord_n and_o yet_o this_o be_v not_o our_o only_a or_o great_a motive_n to_o good_a work_n for_o that_o arise_v from_o our_o childlike_a affection_n to_o so_o kind_a and_o bountiful_a a_o father_n which_o if_o the_o papist_n have_v not_o let_v they_o not_o therefore_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o thing_n like_o the_o mole_n that_o will_v not_o believe_v that_o any_o beast_n can_v see_v because_o she_o herself_o be_v blind_a what_o if_o they_o like_o hireling_n will_v do_v nothing_o but_o for_o wage_n the_o son_n of_o god_n in_o this_o life_n take_v as_o great_a pleasure_n in_o their_o present_a obedience_n 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of_o their_o erroneous_a religion_n from_o my_o chamber_n in_o antwerp_n this_o first_o of_o march_n your_o love_a friend_n h._n t._n finis_fw-la as_o much_o of_o this_o postscript_n as_o have_v any_o need_n of_o answer_n be_v touch_v in_o my_o preface_n i_o will_v therefore_o loose_v no_o more_o time_n in_o examine_v such_o discourse_n the_o abridgement_n of_o the_o former_a answer_n art_fw-la 1._o papist_n the_o protestant_n have_v no_o faith_n nor_o religion_n protestant_n the_o question_n be_v whether_o the_o protestant_n by_o their_o doctrine_n profess_v any_o faith_n or_o religion_n papist_n if_o the_o protestant_n have_v any_o faith_n charity_n repentance_n justification_n church_n altar_n sacrifice_n priest_n religion_n christ_n than_o the_o world_n be_v without_o they_o for_o fifteen_o hundred_o year_n but_o the_o world_n be_v not_o without_o they_o for_o 1500._o year_n therefore_o the_o protestant_n have_v no_o faith_n no_o hope_n no_o charity_n no_o repentance_n no_o 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●s_n in_o all_o substantial_a point_v 〈◊〉_d doctrine_n they_o that_o believe_v not_o 〈◊〉_d that_o christ_n have_v institute_v g._n g._n seven_o sacrament_n do_v some_o 〈◊〉_d the_o communion_n of_o saint_n when_o it_o be_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v 〈◊〉_d institute_v by_o christ_n i_o will_v grant_v this_o propo●_fw-fr 〈◊〉_d then_o any_o man_n may_v make_v as_o good_a a_o reason_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 700._o or_o 7000._o by_o true_a and_o real_a presence_n which_o not_o protestant_a ever_o deny_v you_o mean_v the_o bodily_a and_o carnal_a presence_n which_o beside_o the_o papist_n no_o man_n ever_o confess_v therefore_o to_o this_o argument_n the_o former_a answer_n suffice_v and_o so_o to_o both_o the_o other_o but_o for_o the_o further_a confirmation_n of_o this_o bodily_a presence_n because_o it_o be_v the_o papist_n darling_n there_o be_v some_o show_n of_o proof_n add_v be_v many_o we_o be_v one_o bread_n and_o body_n all_o that_o participate_v 17._o 1._o cor._n ●●_o 17._o of_o one_o body_n 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receive_v they_o say_v you_o that_o deny_v the_o church_n militant_a and_o triumphant_a h._n h._n by_o exclaim_v against_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o prayer_n for_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n deny_v the_o article_n of_o believe_v the_o communion_n of_o saint_n but_o the_o protestant_n deny_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n militant_a and_o triumphant_a by_o exclaim_v against_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o prayer_n for_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n ergo_fw-la they_o deny_v the_o communion_n of_o saint_n if_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n believe_v in_o the_o creed_n belong_v to_o the_o catholic_a church_n in_o the_o same_o creed_n how_o can_v it_o imply_v any_o fellowship_n with_o those_o that_o be_v depart_v whether_o they_o be_v in_o heaven_n or_o in_o purgatory_n for_o by_o the_o catholic_a church_n our_o papist_n understand_v not_o the_o church_n triumphant_a but_o militant_a only_o for_o they_o hold_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n mention_v in_o the_o creed_n must_v always_o be_v visible_a and_o famous_a and_o what_o a_o unworthy_a wrong_n be_v it_o to_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n in_o heaven_n for_o any_o man_n to_o imagine_v that_o the_o reprobate_n in_o earth_n of_o who_o there_o be_v no_o small_a store_n in_o the_o outward_a congregation_n do_v communicate_v with_o the_o elect_v depart_v in_o the_o privilege_n which_o christ_n have_v purchase_v by_o his_o precious_a blood_n for_o his_o own_o member_n but_o the_o best_a be_v malice_n itself_o dare_v not_o charge_v we_o with_o simple_a deny_v all_o communion_n betwixt_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n and_o they_o in_o earth_n but_o only_o with_o the_o denial_n of_o it_o in_o some_o few_o point_n one_o whereof_o viz._n invocation_n of_o saint_n this_o papist_n will_v prove_v by_o scripture_n the_o 4._o gen._n 48._o 16._o apoc._n 1._o 4._o aagell_a that_o deliver_v i_o from_o all_o evil_n bless_v these_o child_n grace_n and_o peace_n from_o he_o that_o be_v be_v and_o that_o be_v to_o come_v and_o from_o the_o seven_o spirit_n which_o be_v in_o the_o sight_n of_o his_o throne_n jacob_n and_o john_n pray_v that_o we_o may_v be_v protect_v &_o bless_v of_o god_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o angel_n therefore_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n signify_v that_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n pray_v for_o we_o and_o we_o must_v pray_v to_o they_o need_v i_o to_o write_v one_o word_n in_o answer_n to_o this_o reason_n but_o i_o be_o desirous_a that_o all_o man_n shall_v see_v the_o weakness_n of_o this_o proof_n first_o it_o be_v doubt_v by_o very_o good_a writer_n ancient_a and_o latter_a whether_o jacob_n mean_v christ_n or_o some_o special_a angel_n whether_o the_o seven_o spirit_n signify_v the_o holy_a ghost_n or_o the_o army_n of_o angel_n second_o no_o papist_n that_o ever_o i_o read_v confound_v angel_n with_o saint_n or_o interpret_v the_o communion_n of_o saint_n by_o the_o ministry_n of_o angel_n three_o these_o consequence_n be_v feeble_a first_o the_o angel_n be_v minister_a spirit_n therefore_o the_o saint_n depart_v pray_v for_o us._n second_o the_o angel_n protect_v we_o and_o be_v minister_n of_o grace_n and_o peace_n from_o god_n to_o we_o therefore_o by_o mediation_n they_o obtain_v our_o request_n three_o what_o strength_n be_v there_o in_o this_o conclusion_n the_o angel_n pray_v for_o we_o therefore_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o glorify_v they_o by_o pray_v to_o they_o that_o be_v to_o dishonour_n god_n by_o honour_v they_o for_o i_o demand_v whether_o we_o may_v at_o any_o time_n pray_v to_o god_n without_o their_o mediation_n or_o no_o if_o we_o may_v not_o than_o the_o lord_n prayer_n be_v teach_v we_o in_o vain_a because_o that_o can_v belong_v to_o any_o angel_n or_o saint_n if_o we_o may_v i_o ask_v why_o not_o at_o one_o time_n as_o well_o as_o at_o another_o why_o not_o in_o one_o matter_n as_o well_o as_o in_o a_o other_o urge_v not_o your_o carnal_a comparison_n betwixt_o god_n and_o earthly_a prince_n for_o both_o it_o be_v as_o forcible_a for_o one_o time_n and_o matter_n as_o another_o and_o thereby_o you_o rob_v god_n of_o the_o glory_n and_o thanks_n he_o shall_v receive_v of_o we_o for_o the_o grant_n of_o our_o request_n and_o we_o of_o the_o comfort_n we_o may_v have_v by_o the_o feel_a persuasion_n of_o god_n love_n in_o hear_v our_o prayer_n and_o satisfy_v our_o desire_n if_o the_o prince_n receive_v my_o petition_n at_o my_o own_o hand_n and_o yield_v unto_o it_o i_o have_v reason_n to_o persuade_v myself_o of_o his_o love_n to_o i_o and_o to_o give_v all_o thanks_n to_o he_o for_o his_o princely_a bounty_n if_o any_o beside_o myself_o commend_v my_o suit_n to_o he_o and_o it_o be_v obtain_v i_o be_o perhaps_o never_o a_o whit_n behold_v to_o he_o because_o it_o may_v be_v he_o know_v not_o i_o nor_o care_n what_o i_o be_o but_o only_o do_v some_o favourite_n of_o his_o own_o that_o kindness_n now_o let_v any_o reasonable_a man_n judge_v whether_o all_o the_o poor_a recompense_n i_o can_v make_v all_o the_o thankfulness_n i_o can_v show_v be_v not_o due_a to_o the_o party_n by_o who_o graciousnesse_n with_o the_o prince_n i_o attain_a to_o that_o i_o seek_v for_o so_o that_o if_o i_o content_v he_o in_o some_o measure_n though_o i_o never_o honour_n nor_o love_v the_o prince_n one_o jot_n the_o more_o yet_o i_o do_v as_o much_o as_o just_o can_v be_v require_v of_o i_o yea_o if_o i_o will_v enforce_v myself_o to_o be_v thankful_a to_o the_o prince_n both_o he_o may_v disdain_v my_o presumption_n and_o he_o that_o prefer_v my_o suit_n be_v offend_v with_o my_o unthankfulness_n that_o will_v not_o give_v he_o all_o the_o thanks_o that_o procure_v all_o the_o favour_n they_o say_v you_o that_o deny_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n militant_a and_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n deny_v