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cause_n church_n matter_n see_v 1,546 5 3.4343 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A72176 A dialogue bewteene a papist and Protestant applied to the capacity of the vnlearned. Made by G. Gifford, preacher in the towne of Maldon. Seene and allowed according to the order appointed. Gifford, George, d. 1620. 1599 (1599) STC 11849.5; ESTC S125231 92,498 190

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what_o say_v you_o to_o jehoiada_n the_o priest_n do_v not_o he_o cause_v they_o to_o slay_v athaliah_n when_o she_o have_v reign_v certain_a year_n and_o set_v up_o joash_n to_o be_v king_n if_o the_o priest_n of_o the_o law_n have_v this_o power_n how_o much_o more_o the_o priest_n of_o the_o gospel_n pro._n you_o will_v give_v i_o over_o now_o you_o say_v but_o your_o traitorous_a heart_n be_v so_o full_a that_o it_o will_v not_o suffer_v you_o indeed_o i_o know_v you_o like_o it_o much_o better_a to_o deal_v among_o the_o unlearned_a people_n who_o you_o may_v draw_v to_o your_o opinion_n or_o with_o such_o as_o you_o know_v to_o bear_v the_o same_o mind_n
we_o condemn_v it_o and_o hate_v it_o more_o than_o you_o do_v and_o although_o you_o go_v about_o to_o abuse_v and_o wrest_v the_o scripture_n against_o we_o yet_o you_o shall_v never_o be_v able_a to_o drive_v any_o true_a catholic_a from_o the_o right_n pure_a and_o devout_a worship_n of_o god_n pro._n will_v you_o confess_v if_o i_o prove_v that_o you_o be_v idolater_n that_o you_o be_v the_o false_a church_n and_o that_o you_o be_v fall_v away_o from_o the_o truth_n that_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n pa._n i_o must_v needs_o confess_v that_o idolater_n be_v fall_v from_o the_o truth_n but_o where_o as_o you_o make_v offer_v to_o prove_v that_o we_o commit_v idolatry_n i_o say_v still_o we_o be_v the_o further_a from_o it_o of_o all_o other_o and_o in_o this_o i_o think_v myself_o sufficient_o arm_v to_o stand_v against_o all_o the_o heretic_n in_o the_o world_n prove_v what_o you_o can_v pro._n all_o those_o which_o worship_v idol_n be_v condemn_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n to_o be_v idolater_n but_o it_o seem_v you_o papist_n do_v not_o worship_v idol_n at_o least_o you_o will_v bear_v man_n in_o hand_n you_o do_v not_o when_o as_o in_o very_a deed_n you_o do_v it_o in_o most_o shameful_a manner_n where_o have_v it_o ever_o be_v hear_v of_o that_o man_n have_v more_o dote_v upon_o stock_n and_o stone_n than_o the_o papist_n will_v you_o still_o then_o be_v past_a shame_n and_o say_v you_o hate_v idolatry_n you_o be_v further_a from_o it_o of_o all_o other_o pa._n i_o say_v still_o and_o need_v not_o be_v ashamed_a that_o it_o be_v the_o blindness_n of_o you_o heretic_n which_o either_o can_v or_o will_v not_o see_v that_o we_o be_v no_o idolatry_n this_o sin_n of_o idolatry_n be_v where_o they_o worship_v idol_n we_o have_v image_n of_o the_o true_a god_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o of_o other_o saint_n we_o have_v no_o idol_n of_o feign_a and_o false_a god_n we_o worship_v not_o the_o image_n themselves_o neither_o but_o the_o thing_n which_o be_v by_o they_o represent_v moreover_o we_o do_v not_o give_v latria_fw-la to_o the_o image_n of_o saint_n but_o dulia_n which_o god_n in_o the_o scripture_n do_v never_o condemn_v i_o say_v therefore_o you_o help_v we_o when_o you_o say_v we_o worship_v stock_n and_o stone_n or_o that_o we_o worship_v any_o beside_o the_o true_a god_n you_o be_v the_o idolater_n yourselves_o pro._n you_o will_v fain_o purge_v and_o clear_v yourselves_o from_o idolatry_n and_o therefore_o you_o have_v devise_v these_o distinction_n first_o you_o will_v make_v a_o difference_n between_o idol_n and_o image_n you_o be_v image_n but_o not_o idol_n second_o you_o shift_v the_o matter_n that_o you_o do_v not_o worship_v the_o image_n themselves_o but_o that_o which_o the_o image_n do_v put_v you_o in_o mind_n of_o and_o last_o of_o all_o your_o deep_a distinction_n between_o latria_fw-la which_o be_v worship_n which_o you_o give_v only_o to_o god_n and_o dulia_n which_o be_v service_n which_o you_o bestow_v upon_o the_o saint_n i_o will_v lay_v open_a how_o vain_a these_o thing_n be_v and_o yet_o how_o they_o be_v subtle_a to_o deceive_v poor_a ignorant_a soul_n pa._n i_o know_v your_o answer_n well_o enough_o you_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o defend_v that_o a_o idol_n and_o a_o image_n be_v all_o one_o and_o so_o when_o it_o be_v say_v god_n make_v man_n after_o his_o own_o image_n you_o may_v translate_v it_o after_o his_o own_o idol_n it_o may_v be_v say_v of_o the_o picture_n &_o image_n of_o the_o prince_n this_o be_v the_o princess_n idol_n likewise_o if_o a_o painter_n paint_v a_o image_n of_o a_o dog_n you_o may_v say_v this_o be_v a_o idol_n of_o a_o dog_n ah_o sir_n this_o be_v over_o gross_a you_o show_v by_o this_o what_o your_o skill_n be_v in_o other_o thing_n pro._n now_o must_v you_o needs_o win_v the_o spur_n because_o we_o say_v that_o image_n and_o idol_n be_v all_o one_o save_v that_o the_o one_o be_v greek_a and_o the_o other_o latin_n you_o say_v 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name_n by_o this_o it_o do_v appear_v that_o in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n there_o be_v no_o such_o difference_n between_o idol_n and_o image_n as_o the_o papist_n will_v bear_v man_n in_o hand_n for_o these_o be_v idol_n by_o their_o own_o confession_n which_o yet_o be_v set_v forth_o under_o that_o same_o word_n which_o moses_n use_v for_o the_o likeness_n of_o god_n after_o which_o man_n be_v create_v pa._n all_o this_o do_v prove_v nothing_o for_o we_o do_v grant_v that_o which_o you_o have_v say_v because_o idol_n be_v also_o image_n although_o every_o picture_n and_o image_n be_v not_o a_o idol_n for_o a_o idol_n be_v a_o image_n which_o be_v worship_v and_o take_v to_o be_v god_n pro._n it_o do_v prove_v this_o for_o which_o i_o do_v allege_v it_o that_o the_o same_o word_n be_v in_o that_o tongue_n use_v indifferent_o for_o the_o image_n of_o god_n and_o for_o the_o idol_n of_o the_o heathen_a but_o because_o you_o say_v it_o do_v prove_v nothing_o see_v idol_n be_v image_n although_o every_o image_n be_v not_o by_o and_o by_o a_o idol_n unless_o it_o be_v worship_v let_v i_o demand_v this_o be_v not_o that_o which_o be_v forbid_v to_o be_v make_v in_o the_o scripture_n a_o idol_n pa._n i_o know_v no_o man_n which_o do_v deny_v but_o that_o be_v a_o idol_n which_o the_o scripture_n do_v forbid_v but_o you_o must_v go_v further_a than_o that_o for_o you_o must_v prove_v that_o those_o which_o the_o scripture_n do_v forbid_v be_v but_o call_v image_n and_o so_o image_n and_o idol_n to_o be_v all_o one_o pro._n you_o say_v right_a for_o those_o which_o the_o scripture_n condemn_v we_o must_v confess_v to_o be_v idol_n then_o if_o i_o prove_v that_o the_o scripture_n do_v condenne_n image_n it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o they_o be_v idol_n i_o require_v no_o more_o for_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o the_o scripture_n do_v forbid_v all_o image_n of_o god_n as_o in_o deuterono_n 4._o there_o be_v forbid_v not_o only_a semel_fw-la but_o also_o temnuah_n and_o tabnith_n and_o in_o esay_n 40._o demuth_n who_o will_v be_v so_o mad_a as_o to_o deny_v but_o that_o here_o be_v image_n forbid_v and_o therefore_o that_o image_n be_v idol_n pa._n i_o see_v no_o cause_n why_o i_o shall_v not_o deny_v it_o for_o they_o be_v also_o idol_n because_o they_o be_v make_v to_o be_v worship_v pro._n i_o see_v no_o cause_n why_o i_o may_v not_o esteem_v you_o to_o be_v obstinate_o blind_v because_o in_o these_o place_n which_o i_o have_v cite_v he_o do_v not_o only_o speak_v of_o the_o true_a god_n but_o also_o the_o reason_n which_o be_v set_v down_o