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A95679 Gainsayer convinced: or, An answer to a certain scandalous paper, subscribed and sent by certain seduced and seditious people to a minister in the countrey: in which the calling of the ministry of the Church of England, the nature of a visible church, the power of the magistrate under the gospel, the right of tithes, with many other points now in controversie, are briefly, fully and plainly cleared, to the satisfaction of those that are wavering; also much of the spirit and many of the errours of the Anabaptists of these daies (who call themselves saints) discovered and confuted. / By T.T. Preacher of the word at Kemble in Wiltshire. Thache, Thomas, b. 1616 or 17. 1649 (1649) Wing T827; Thomason E568_1; ESTC R206240 79,821 83

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did you not for that present lay by that little reason truth honestie and charitie that you pretend to when you did set your hands to these things did you not forget that of Christ Matth. 12. 36 37. that for every idle word that men shall speak much more for every lying reviling slandering word they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement For by thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words thou shalt be condemned Will you justifie these words before God or men or will they not condemne you without repentance Here you charge me with persecuting the Saints and the power of godlinesse that I am a time serving self-seeking man who seek onely my gain from other mens quarters that I raise war against those that will not put into my mouth that I slight and reproach and call those Sectaries whom I formerly rejoyced in because you will not beleeve as I beleeve and put into my mouth to feed you with untruths and that I now hugg and imbrace the openly prophane c. Are ye able to make these accusations good against me truly you speak very largely as if your tongue that unruly evil member full of deadly poyson wherewith you pretend to blesse God and yet do curse men made after the similitude of God were your own and that none could or should controul you Had I received such words from openly prophane men or from profest devils I could have born them better but to be so traduced by men that would be accounted understanding men men professing conscience as their rule yea from profest Saints truly this makes me much more to suspect and mistrust the truth of that you professe then ever I did before remembring the words of the Apostle James 3. 12 13 14 c. Can a fountain send forth at the same p●ace sweet water and bitter Can a figtree bear olive berries or a vine figs so can no fountain yeeld both salt water and fresh Who is a wise man and indued with knowledge amongst you let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meeknesse of wisdom But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts glo●y not and lye not against the truth This wisdom descendeth not from above but is earthly sensuall divellish See also Jam. 4. 11 12. 1. But to answer the particulars First for my persecuting of the Saints and the power of godlinesse I do here appeal to the Lord Jesus who takes all such persecutions of Saints as done to himself Act. 9. 5. In this point I say I call heaven and earth to witnesse and shall say with David in Psal 7. 3. 5. O Lord my God if I have done this if there be this iniquity in my hands Let the enemy persecute my soul and take it yea let him tread down my life upon the earth And as he in Psal 69. 19. Thou Lord hast known my reproach and my shame mine adversaries are all before thee 2ly In that you say I am a time-server and self-seeker and that I seek onely my gain from other mens quarters c. What time-server I am let the times judge and for the seeking of my self or my gain from my quarters I thank the Lord that my rejoycing is this the testimony of my conscience that in all quarters especially to you-wards I have preached the Gospel without covetousnesse and the gain that I have sought for hath been the gain of souls to Jesus Christ knowing that this also shall turn to my gain In this I hope you will allow us to be covetous and as Paul said to his Thessalonians 1. Ep. 2. ch Being allowed of God to be put in trust to preach the Gospel even so we have spoken not as pleasing men but God who tryeth our hearts Neither at any time used we flattering words as ye know nor a cloak of covetousnesse God is witnesse neither of men sought we glory nor of you nor yet of others when we might have been burthensome as the Ministers of Christ Yea you your selves are witnesses and God also that I have both travell'd to and laboured amongst you in preaching the Gospel of God neither ever yet have I been chargeable to any one of you to my best knowledge and remembrance no not for a peny though most falsly and impudently you here charge it upon me And if I had sought my self and my own gain so much as you speak of surely I should have sought me out some more charitable quarters then I ever yet found yours to be But the Lord forgive you your unthankfulnesse returning and requiting me in this evil for good 3ly In the next place though you cannot but be convinc'd of this in your own consciences that you never as yet put any thing into my mouth yet pray tell me when or wherein have I endeavoured to raise warre against you will this be made good or must I put it into the number of your most unchristian-like slanders 4ly Whereas you say that I slight and reproach and dis-own you whom I formerly rejoyced in because you will not beleeve as I beleeve and put into my mouth to feed you with untruths I answer as Paul said to his Thossalonians 1 Ep. 2 Ch. latter end that ye were our joy and our glory and the crown of our rejoycing while ye seemed to stand fast in the Lord But since you have been so foolish as he said to his Galathians 3. Ch 1. ver to be bewitcht by others not to obey the truth you must pardon us this wrong if we be in heavinesse for you and though we be far from slighting or reproaching any as you falsly object yet I say again you must pardon us if we dis-own you in your errors which of us it is that hath changed let the Lord judge betwixt us whether our doctrine or your profession and practice hath been yea and nay We dare appeal to the same God and to the Lord Jesus Christ that the word of the Gospel which hath been preached among you by us was not is not yea and nay but in Christ was and is yea But farther you say we slight and dis-own you because you will not beleeve as I beleeve and put into my mouth to feed you with untruths I answer First for your beleeving as I beleeve for my belief I shall say first as Paul 2 Cor. 10. 7. If any of you trust to himself that he is Christs let him of himself think this again that as he is Christs even so are we Christs my belief is in the Lord Jesus neither have I ever endeavoured to invite or intice you to any other belief then the faith in Jesus Christ And whosoever he be that shall preach to you any other Gospel or another belief though he were man or Angel from heaven I must say as Paul Galat. 1. 8 9. Let him be accursed What other beleef you have lately found out that you will not beleeve as we beleeve