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Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A62427	The Quakers quibbles in three parts : first set forth in an expostulatory epistle to Will. Pfnn [i.e. Penn] concerning the late meeting held to Barbycan between the Baptists and the Quakers, also the pretended prophet Lod. Muggleton and the Quakers compared : the second part, in reply to a quibbling answer to G. Whiteheads, entituled The Quakers plainness ... : the third part, being a continuation of their quibbles ... / by the same indifferent pen.	Thompson, Thomas.; Hedworth, Henry.; Penn, William, 1644-1718.	1675 (1675)	Wing T1013; ESTC R41153	141,349	262

Arguments I heard that day from him and my confessing that St. Paul saith Though I speak with the Tongues of Men and Angels and have not Charity I am become as sounding Brass or a tinkling Cymbal Reply If there be any contradiction here it must be in G. W's Brain and not in my Words For I do still say That the Gift of Tongues immediately inspired into those of the True Church upon their becoming Christians which was the Gift I spake of p. 7. in express words without acquiring it by Study was a certain Proof of Christianity yea and I do now say so discriminating that I do not know that ever we find in the whole Scripture any others but only Christians that were indued with that Gift by immediate Power and Inspiration of the Holy Spirit And accordingly the Apostle Peter took it for a sufficient and undeniable sign of their Belief and Christianity who had received this Gift upon his Preaching Christ Jesus to them and thereupon commanded them to be Baptized Acts 10.44 c. They which Believed were astonished as many as came with PETER because that on the GENTILES ALSO was poured out the GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST for they heard them SPEAK WITH TONGUES Then Answered Peter CAN ANY MAN FORBID WATER That these should not be Baptized which have received the HOLY GHOST AS WELL AS WE And he commanded them to be Baptized in the Name of the Lord. And do thou G. deny it against this plain Testimony of Scripture or make the Apostle Paul to Contradict the Apostle Peter here if thy Conscience can serve thee Therefore G. thou art so far from proving this a Contradiction that thou hast committed a great mistake in saying That the GIFT of Tongues is not a certain proof of Christianity wherefore consider what thou hast it's possible only rashly and hastily asserted and be not ashamed to confess thy Error But on the other hand though I owned SUCH A GIFT as before mentioned p. 7. of my Epistle would be a good Proof to me of W. P's Christianity Yet I do not nor never did own that Men speaking never so MANY nor so EXCELLENT Tongues by ACQUISITION AND STUDY much less that any of W. P's Plausible Orations or fine Harangues was a certain Proof of Christianity no nor any Proof at all and those were the fine words without Charity I spake of p. 9. and where 's then the Contradiction Surely in G. his own Fancy This being natural mediate and acquired by Study but the other Spiritual and a Gift immediate from God at an Instant And although it is not to be doubted but that the Apostle Paul had learned to speak l●ke an Orator and more Tongues than one by Study before his becoming a Christian he being brought up a Scholar yet suppose it be granted that he speaks 1 Cor. 13.1 of the Gift of Tongues he had immediately he doth not say any such thing as that it is no certain proof of Christianity to OTHERS nay so far from it that in Chap. 14. v. 22. he asserts Tongues are for a sign to them that Believe not that is chiefly to them and in the Quakers sence such are we who do not believe them But that Charity which he speaks of is a Proof of his or a mans SINCERITY BEFORE GOD that he did make use and imploy those GIFTS really in LOVE TO GOD AND HIS CHURCH for the Planting and edifying of it and not to any by and base ends which if he should it would profit him nothing v. 3. it would signifie nothing to his own Salvation though possibly it might to others much like to this you have it expressed again by the Apostle in Chap. 9. v. 27. But I keep under my Body and bring it into subjection lest that by any means when I have PREACHED to OTHERS I MY SELF should be a CAST AWAY So that TONGUES IMMEDIATELY inspired by the Holy Spirit are a SIGN and PROOF to others of Christianity wherever that Gift was or is found and CHARITY is a SIGN and PROOF of a man's sincerity before God and of his SINCERE LOVE TO GOD AND HIS BRETHREN in his Exercise of that GIFT OF TONGUES and other miraculous G●fts which God hath given him for the planting and edifying of his Church But what 's all this to W.P. who alas is so far from having THAT CHARITY and SINCERITY in the Vse and Exercise of those spiritual Gifts of Tongues and Miracles for the love and benefit of the Church that HE hath NONE OF THOSE GIFTS TO USE OR EXERCISE AT ALL And where 's now the contradiction therefore I must note this for G. W's second Quibble The Apostles were to stay at Jerusalem till they were endued with power from on high viz. with tha● Spirit whereby they were enabled to speak with Tongues being to Preach the Gospel to all Nations and not only to those that understood only the vulgar Tongue of the Jewes But W.P. or several of the Quakers Prophets have been sent to Preach the Gospel as they pretend to Peoples and Countrys that did not understand their Language particularly G. Fox to America where he as I have heard sent for at once an Emperor and two Kings to Preach to the Indians in English which they understood no● Thus have these Prophets rendered themselves more Barbarous than those Barbarians to whom they Preached Had not men the Light within them in the Apostles time as much as now If the Light within is now a sufficient evidence of the Truth of the Gospel why not then also why should the Apostles Peter and Paul have need of the miraculous gifts of the Holy Ghost then and the Apostles George and William in these days have no need of them at all 3. He charges this as a self-contradiction For saying thou madest thy self the Author of a Lye and shewedst thy self not only a Fool but unjust and yet that I hint for W.P. to say It is a Lye is neither Answer nor Argument and therefore in Love I should advise him to leave off such Billinsgate Rhetorick Reply Oh excellent Artist He leaves out part of my words and then tells me I have contradicted my self For these words TO EXPRESS IT IN THY OWN LANGUAGE he deceitfully leaves out which I did in my very writing the Epistle think of and put in on purpose to prevent any such mistake for thereby I gave W.P. plainly to understand that it was his Language and none of mine I did express it in his Language and not my own that so he might be the more sensible of it Now George call to mind thy own words p. 68. But if you take this kind of unfair Curtailing which destroys the sence is this your Care and Justice would you be thus served both to wrong me and abuse the World or your Reader And see how out of thine own mouth thou hast Condemned thy self both as a partial and self-contradictory Pen. In his 3d. Sect.

shall take my Leave of them for the present till some fitter Occasion and then it is not impossible they may have it in some other Mode if they do not like of this I did not study so much to please them as to deal Faithfully with them nor to flatter them but to be plain with them Be not over-Angry Open Rebuke is better than secret Love And sharp Maladies require sharp Remedies Post-script Kind Reader THE Business betwixt the Quakers and Me is not so much Matter of Difficult or Intricate Dispute as Matter of Fact and of Ocular Demonstration which is or may be plain to the very Eyes or Ears of Persons of mean Capacities as well as Learned For my so oft reiterated Grand Objection against them all along my first two Treatises is in effect no more but this That they Quakers do not say nor visibly produce ANY MORE than the Baptist Churches or the pretended Prophe● Muggleton does or can do whom yet they Condemn the one for FALSE and the other as an IMPOSTOR G.W. As in the Name of the Quakers affirms THEY CAN AND DO or to that purpose Upon this I require of him his Proof Evidence or Instances But as yet cannot obtain them and some thin●● never shall Now this would be plain and is not to trouble Peoples Heads or Minds with long and dubious Disputes about nice School-distinctions nor abstruse Matters WHEREFORE if the Quakers design to give any Real and Direct Answer to ME they ought if they dare to go the plainest way and deal honestly therein To set down on one side what the Baptists and Muggleton say and can visibly produce for themselves and on the other side set down what they the Quakers do say and visibly produce for themselves Thus the Work would be short the Quakers need do no more at present than this in Answer to the First and Second Part of the Quakers Quibbles neither do I desire any more at present of them thereunto And this I pray my Countrey-men and them to take NOTICE how Reasonable my Request is and how I desire to prevent that they may have no Colour nor Excuse for troubling the World and me with any more of their Impertinent and silly scribling not at all to the purpose If they undertake to make any Answer to Me NOTE that this above is the main thing and the very MATTER they must Answer to or else it is not an Answer to ME nor to WHAT I have wrote but an Answer to SOMEWHAT else or onely an EVASION And they cannot now either honestly or justly refuse to do this because G.W. hath already undertaken for them to give me a plain Answer to my first Treatise which contains this which he hath not yet done as I have fully shew'd in my Second Part where and how he falls short THEREFORE that they may not pretend Ignorance or forgetfulness I do signifie it to them ONCE MORE Because I would fain beat this into their Heads finding they will not yet let it enter their Crowns it constrains me to tell it them over and over again and do desire him or them that shall go about to write to Read this and take NOTICE of it in the first place And then when they have honestly performed this that they may not pretend any Excuse Let them write what and as much as they will about any other Matter in difference betwixt us I hope it shall find no other than a kind Reception with me THIS any plain Ordinary Man that hath but the Common use of his Vnderstanding Eyes or Ears may be able to see or bear and Judge of viz. Whether and what the Quakers do say and visibly produce MORE than those others whom THEY CONDEMN do or can say and produce For otherwise no Man can certainly and uncontroulably give and produce any BETTER ground for his Faith in Believing a QUAKER than a BAPTIST or MUGGLETON But I doubt this is too honest and plain-hearted for the Quakers ever to do and some think one may as soon expect the Great Turk to turn Quaker as the Quaker to do this they knowing that this would touch them to the Quick and lay them too open however I lay it before them and leave it with them that all good and sober Men may see what Plainness Honesty Fidelity or Christianity is in them I would Advise all Persons that are or shall be concerned in Dispute with a Quaker to bring them to this plain matter and Method and hold them close to it Or if any Quaker speaks to you or would perswade you to come to them or to turn to their Church or way or does but Assert that their Church is true and the Church of ENGLAND or the Baptists Churches false do but keep them close to THIS and you shall without doubt quickly find them weary of you and willing to leave that Discourse sooner than by any other way or Arguments that ever I heard because these are plainer and easie to be discern'd And this I here intimate to you as my sincere and Cordial Advice The Benefit of it you will be better able to Judge when you have Experienced it Which that you may do and over-come all Deceivers Hypocritical Pretenders and their Temptations is my earnest Prayer FINIS THE Printer hath Omitted to put the Citations of the Quakers words in an Italick or different Letter as they ought to have been through the most part of this Treatise therefore the Reader is desired to take the more heed which are their words and how far the Citations out of their Books go that so he may not run into any mistake thereby And that he would Correct these Errata's of the Press PAge 4. Line 24. Read of the. p. 6. l. 2. for was r. were p. 18. l. 13. for are r. were p. 9. l. 9. for as r. at l. 25. for ●s r. are p. 13. l. 12. add 15. l. 20. r. man's p. 15. l. 24. dele in l. 26. r. spoke or writ l. 28. r. teachings p. 17. l. 4. add or l. 21. add of l. 28. for and motions r. to the anoynting p. 20. l. 3. r. whining-Spirit p. 22. l. 24. r. they p. 32. l. 12. where 's r. where be p. 40. l. 26. and r. and the. p. 43. l. 32. r. To. * Acts 10.44 c. While Peter yet spake these words the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the Word and they of the Circumcision which believed were astonished as many as came with Pe●●● because ●●●t on the Gentiles also was poured out the Gift of the Holy Ghost For they heard them speak with Tongues and magnifie God Then answered Peter Can any Man forbid Water that these should not be Baptized which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we And he commanded them to be baptized in the Name of the Lord. And that this was common see Acts 19.6 When Paul h●d laid his hands upon them the Holy Ghost