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A36909 The visions of the soul, before it comes into the body in several dialogues / written by a member of the Anthenian Society. Dunton, John, 1659-1733. 1692 (1692) Wing D2634; ESTC R18582 76,133 186

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night when the Body has little need of my Attendance that I may give you an Account what an ambitious restless Lump it is that I animate Pray says another come see me when my Body's asleep that I may have some vent to my Sorrows by telling you the vast difference betwixt a Body'd and an unbody'd Spirit No says a Third but if you 'l come and see me I 'll preach the Doctrine of Humanity to you possibly it may have such an effect upon you as you may escape the first Damnation for three or four hundred Years longer Suppose you hear five Thousand more beginning to make their Complaints and the Body like a Tip-staff or Serjeant hurrying 'em away into new experiments of Horror before they can tell their Story out 1 Sp. Hold pray no more I' have enough of Humanity Let 's be gone i● your way lies towards the World in Saturn ●'ll bear you Company 2 Sp. I 'm oblig'd to you March then DIALOGUE XXVII Between the Spirit that is to be last imbody'd and the Spirit that is to be first re-united to the Body at the Day of Judgment 1 Spirit HOld hold Brother don't leave me yet Alas he 's gone and with him all the whole Society of Spiris What have I to converse with now but inanimate Globes aud senseless Constellations What signifies it that I am Lord of all when I have no Subjects to reign over no agreeable Mate I mean of the same Species to accompany me Unkind Fate to imbody all the Thousand Thousands of my Brethren and to leave me to wander up and down the Universe by my self The World is to me a sort of Prison not by Diminution but by Deprivation for a Prison is not properly call'd a Prison for being so great or so little but being a Confinement from such and such Enjoyments Oh that I cou'd cease to be or transmigrate into any other Classis of Creatures For what state is more unhappy than that which gives a power of enjoying Good and denies a Subject to exercise his power upon But stay why do I repine Some Spirit must necessarily have been the last and tho' it is I yet it cannot be long but my Turn will quickly come 2 Sp. Nine hundred ninety nine Millions of Millions Let me see again possibly my Calculation may be false Suppose once more that everry Man computing one Man with another is compos'd of a handful of pure Earth all the Particles of the other Elements being separated from it then it follows that just so many Handfuls of Earth as the Globe contains in it may be made into Men but no more unless the God of Nature will make more Earthly Globes for when every Man rises at the Day of Judgment and assumes his own particular handful of Earth if there shou'd be more Men than Earth Ha Some Souls must go without Bodies which is very absurd Nor is it very reasonable that the Earth shou'd not every Bit of it be made into Men that when they come to take every one their own there may be no Earth left and then 't is an easie thing for the last Fire to consume the other Elements No that won't do neither for I 'd forgot that Man is made of all the Elements and therefore when all the Earth is spent in making Men the Elements must be spent likewise that is the whole Earth Air Fire and Water will when every one takes their own be equally divided and march up and down an Eternal Indefinite Space or Vacuum in living Glorify'd Humanity Very well now I have it There were at first 9999999999 Spirits and there 's just so many handful of Dust in the Earth Now if I cou'd tell how many Spirits are yet unbody'd 't is but subtracting the Remainder from the first Number and the difference is the Handfuls of Earth that are yet to be made into Men and when I know this I shall know how long it will be before I shall be re-united again to my Body which I was separated from about 3000 Years since Methinks I long to renew the old Acquaintance 1 Sp. What Mathematical Soul is this that's computing the Day of Iudgment It has always been too deep a Secret for Humanity to pry into 2 Sp. I have laid by that dull heavy Lump a great while since 1 Sp. But 't is said that Angels themselves are ignorant of that Day 2 Sp. Yes they were so at that time when such Words were spoken because they knew not how fast Spirits wou'd be unbodied or how the Age of Man might shorten nor consequently how long it wou'd be before the World was made into Men but if you can give me an Account how many Spirits are yet unbody'd I will tell you just now how long it is till the Day of Iudgment 1 Sp. None of 'em but my self 2 Sp. How are all the 999999999 Souls which were made upon the same day that the Angels were sent into Bodies except you 1 Sp. Yes all but my self I 've just now parted with my last Companion 2 Sp. If so the date of your pre-existence is just at an end perhaps within this quarter of a Minute for there 's always some young Body or other gaping for a Soul to actuate it 1 Sp. I shall be very glad of it for 't is afflicting to be the only remaining Creature of one Species 2 Sp. 'T is so But 1 Sp. Farewel I am call'd away too and with me the whole Race of unbodied Souls lose their Name and change their very Nature 2 Sp. Is he gone I knew it cou'd not be long that he had to tarry Let me see No That won't do That 's right upon a modest computation the World must expire within these 70 Years for it 's great odds this last unbodied Soul will be separated again before that Period Besides there must be some left alive which will undergo the same change without dying as the Body and Soul will do at their Re-union therefore perhaps within these 70 all will be over Now methinks I see that little share of Dust that belongs to me receive its first Impression and beckon to me to renew our old Acquaintance and Union Methinks I see my self as eager in my Embraces of my old Comrade and as busie in exercising my Offices of Perception c. as ever But I 'm at a loss as to the manner how because of the inexpressible Change that my Organs must undergo But I 'll let that Thought alone sinc● I 'm satisfy'd Experience will teach me that and every thing else within a very small Revolution of Time DIALOGUE XXIX Betwixt Two Spirits one that pretends to deny Pre-existence and the other to prove it 1 Spirit WHat am I Whence is my Original And to what end am I design'd 2 Sp. You are a pre-existent Spirit made upon the Day of the Creation Your Original is Nothingness as to the Subject but as to the Cause it
rambling or other Extravagancies To prove which you need only to consult the Records of our Honourable Court of Equity and you 'll find the Decrees generally run thus That having upon the humble Suit of the Plantiff A impartially weigh'd and consider'd the Defendant B's Charge wherein is proved that besides bilking his Lodging he never paid for the cleansing his Wings nor whitening his Wand be it therefore Enacted by the Prerogative of this Honourable Court of Spirits That the said B be forthwith transported into the other World and be kept close Prisoner in a Humane Body for Seventy two Years or some other Number proportioned to the nature of the Debt And this is farther prov'd by my Correspondents in the other World who tell me they often get into the Ear to listen if there be any subject of dissolution and sometimes mount up into the Eye and take a view of the Skies their old Lodgings and when the Eye that is to say the Wicket door or rather the Grate of the Prison is clos'd up 't is more terrible to 'em then Garnishing or double Irons to a Criminal and thus much for Incorpation Penalties Eighth Cannon 'T is as easie a thing for Ships to sail in the Clouds of the Air as in the Sea and 't is an Invention that will be found out when Mankind shall discover the way into the World of the Moon This Cannon consists of two parts viz. Hypothetick and Prophetick to prove the Hypothesis Clouds are form'd in the Air either ordinarily or extraordinarily ordinarily by the Exhalations of thin and moist Vapours just as the steam of a boiling Caldron ascends which meeting together and justling in the air by little and little are condens'd into thick Clouds or airy Rivers which by degrees empty themselves again into the Sea as all other Rivers do upon the Earth Extraordinarily when several Winds meet together as 't is frequent in some Seas the equal strife causes a whirling violent ascention of fighting Particles which form a Vacuum in the shape of a leaden Pipe or Pump as high as the Clouds but Nature abhorring a Vacuum fills that vast Pipe with Water by way of Suction or drawing up So that presently there are formed Clouds of many Millions of Tuns of Water which can easily enough bear up a Ship for water looses not its nature in being less as is evident by a Ship swimming as well in Twenty Fathom deep as Twenty thousand Nor has it less power in the Air than on the Earth for a Tub of Water upon the top of a House will bear up a Hat Stick c. as easily as the Well in the Ground from whence that water was taken But though we have prov'd that Ships may sail in the Air we shan't promise prosperous Voyages which brings me to the Prophetick part of my Cannon viz. That Mankind shall discover the way into the World of the Moon when they find out the way of Sailing in the Air I could prove this also but that it wou'd lessen the Credit of Prophesies which admit of no demonstration but matter of fact Therefore I shall wave it not desiring to be believed till it be fulfill'd Consist That 's reasonable enough What else have you to offer Pr. Ninth Cannon That Saturn is neither Base nor Ten●r but Counter-Tenor in the Musick of the Spheres I have my own reasons for this Negative and I expect the same liberty that the Philosophers have in the World below that is Not to prove Negatives Let all the Musical Souls amongst ye prove the affirmative and I 'll not only yield the Cause but give 'em both my Ears for a demonstration so soon as I have ' em But to proceed if I may speak without offence or particular Reflections on this Honourable Consistory who are now my Judges I have a great many more Negatives to offer in opposition to as many received Opinions amongst you which ye have taken upon Trust without examining the reasonableness of 'em in which provided I may be freed from my Confinement and the Calumny of it I shall oblige all our Fraternity with my farther Discoveries Consist We 'll do you justice and upon performance of your promise you shall have your Liberty DIALOGUE XXII Between the whole Consistory of Spirits being a discovery of Vulgar Errors received in that Society by the late suppos'd Heretick Spirit yet a Prisoner Prisoner THE Goodness of my Cause is to me instead of Questions therefore I shall immediately begin to discover the vulgar Errors of our Society The Condition of my Releasment Secretary of Fate Hold a little here 's the Man in the Moon come now let 's hear what he can say about the Pickl'd Leviathan if upon Oath he confirms not your Testimony already deliver'd how shall we believe what you shall offer hereafter Swear him there and Administer the Interrogatories already drawn up to that end Notary Publick 'T is done Imprimis do you know the Prisoner at the Bar Have you ever held Correspondence with him And if so how long Man in the Moon Yes I do know the Prisoner at the Bar and have held a particular Correspondence with him ever since 35 Years before the Flood Not. Pub. Item Was you the Boston of Noah 's Ark Did the Moon suck a Whale and you up with a bundle of Cables at your Back at full Tide in the Universal Deluge declare the truth and nothing but the truth You are upon your Oath Man in the Moon The affirmative of every particular of this second Interrogatory is truth Not. Pub. Item Are you now Valet de Chamber to the Moon Man in the Moon I am Consist He 's very positive pray examine about his Humanity Sustenance c. this looks very suspicious Not. Pub. Item Were you a Man or a Spirit when you were Boston of the Ark If the first How come you to live so long without putting ●ff the Body If the last was there any more Spirits with you there at the same time Remember you are upon your Oath and therefore speak the whole truth and nothing but truth Man in the Moon I was then and yet am of Humane Race and possibly shall continue lively and well till the day of Judgment by reason of the agreeableness of that Aethar to my Stomach I am never Sick Hungry Thirsty nor Weary for there 's no crude Vapours or gross matter to turn into Diseases Nor is it at all strange since the lower World tells you of one Epimendies Viridiar Lib. 4. prob 24. that slept Seventy Five Years without Meat and Drink and of a whole Nation in India that lives upon pleasing Odors Nat. Hist. lib. 7. c. 3. and of Democritus that was fed divers days with the smell of hot Bread Diog. Laert. lib. 1. cap. 9. why shou'd it seem strange to you that pure Aether shou'd afford such a Nourishment when your common gross vaporous Air nourishes Vegitables Onions and the
is the Eternal Mind who when he sees fitting will provide you a Body to act in 1 Sp. What do you mean For my part I believe you and I are both of us just now created but if you are pre-existent and it now is 5000 Years and more since the beginning of your Existence pray answer me How many Sons Adam had what part of the Year the World was made in but don't answer after the old Evasion viz. at all times of the Year but in what Sign the Sun was first placed 2 Sp. I have forgot now 't is so long since 1 Sp. I thought Reminiscence had been co-essential with or a part of the Nature of Spirits for according to the best Definitions the Soul is a Cogitative Faoulty Now if Thinking Disposing Meditating Examining Compounding Dividing Apprehending Joyning the Subject and the Attribute Affirming Denying Suspending c be the Function and Natural Acts of the Soul it is necessary that Memory be an essential Attribute of it for how is it possible to compare two things together unless we remember the First after we have examin'd the Second for to think of two Things at once is impossible and it is so granted by all that make a due distinction between a Finite and an Infinite Being being what comes nearest this Act is the quick distinction of Letters in Reading or the swift yet regular Motion of the Fingers in Musick Now since Reminiscence is co-essential with Souls an Argument may be drawn from hence to prove you degenerate if not a Non Existent 2 Sp. That I have a Being I 'm certain and this Converse with you demonstrates it 1 Sp. Come I 'll grant you for once that you are pre-existent if you 'll grant me that my Body which I 'm just now going into is also pre-existent and was created before Adam had a Being but I 'll ask for no Concessions which I 'll not first deserve by demonstration For I may prove my Body contemporary with Adam's altho' not visible till above 5000 Years after he was created 2 Sp. Pray how can that be 1 Sp. When Matter was created 't was a great Store-house of all other Beings that were to be created from it all which lay confusedly sleeping in their Chaos but of this Lump was Adam created and if so he himself was potentially in it before he had a specifick Being After his Creation he was maintain'd from the productions of Earth and Water by a destruction of or more properly through a conversion of their Natures into his Hence Adam's Children were only a Transmutation of other material Bodies or the Effect of Meat and Drink in new Figures which lay once in such and such Creatures and before that in the material Chaos we first spoke of Now since the Mechanism of Nature is order'd that it cannot be destroy'd unless by its Author but only transmuted or chang'd into other Matter as a Fire that burns part of it goes to Ashes part into Soot part into Air but yet is always somewhere or in some thing so that all the visible Changes we see are nothing else but a conversion of one Element into another backwards and forwards according to the adaptness and modifications of Agents and Patients This consider'd it will plainly appear that that Body which I am just now going into was the last year part of it growing in such a Crop of Corn part of it in such an Apple●tree part of it in such a River part of it in such an Ox Sheep Fowl c. and only by a proper Revolution of Particles under different Species so adaptly disposited that Nature found the Composition to fit one new distinct Species by it self and according to its Commission or first Settled Chain of Causes produc'd a humane Body fit for the Actuation and Conjunction of a Spirit Hence 't is manifest my Body was as soon in the Bosom of its Causes as Adam's and the last Body that shall be created as soon as mine Nay to go farther since from Eternity the great Creator did design to make a World from which my Body was to be produced I might say that my Body was from all Eternity designedly and potentially tho' actually in time which is the utmost that can be said of the Pre existence of Spirits And I defie every Spirit in the Universe to prove the least difference in Time betwixt the actual Commencement of the Existence of its Body and its self or that the Potentiality of both is not equal to wit eternal 1 Sp. This Argument wou'd hold if it cou'd be prov'd That the Soul is not so clogg'd and incapacitated in its Act of Reminiscence by coming into the Body but that it might easily recollect what has happen'd in its pre existent state For we have innumerable Instances of the Soul's being more incapacitated in its Functions one time than another in the same Body and this by Fits Distractions Diseases c. Which to me appears demonstrative that if the Indispositions of the Body which are only accidental hinder a regular operation of the Soul much more may the Body it self when first ty'd to and made coessential with it 2 Sp. We 'll grant much depends on the Body as to the Mode of Perception and action but not so very much as is suppos'd To mention that leisure time of Dreams When perhaps the Body and Soul have the least actual dependance one of another we shall find the habit of Reminiscence fresh at awaking again but to shew for once that the Soul does not forget what it acts when separate from the Body by reason of the Body's indisposition Consider the Cases of Trances Examinations of Witches c. what think ye of a Soul that has rambled out of the Body for two or three days together and when it has return'd and the Body reviv'd it has told of infallible Truths some hundred Miles distance where it self actually was This we have hundreds of creditable Instances to prove which consider'd does fully from the first presuppos'd consequence of Reminiscence destroy the Doctrine of Pre-existence 1 Sp Well I shall consider of it as soon as I have any leisure in the mean time Farewel 2 Sp. Farewel FINIS