Selected quad for the lemma: water_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
water_n	bread_n	lord_n	wine_n	3,679	5	7.3104	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A74671	The bar, against free admission to the Lords Supper, fixed. Or, An answer to Mr. Humphrey his Rejoynder, or, reply. By Roger Drake minister of Peters Cheap, London.	R. D. (Roger Drake), 1608-1669.	1656 (1656)	Wing D2128; Thomason E1593_1; ESTC R208860	271,720	506

the_o rule_n of_o admission_n as_o that_o person_n to_o receive_v first_o must_v have_v some_o maturity_n of_o understanding_n second_o must_v be_v in_o their_o right_a wit_n three_o must_v not_o be_v jure_v excommunicate_a if_o it_o be_v object_v that_o these_o he_o except_v afterward_o by_o way_n of_o explication_n ans_fw-fr 1._o his_o explication_n must_v never_o contradict_v his_o rule_n second_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n he_o can_v find_v three_o middle_a thing_n we_o shall_v find_v more_o as_o i_o hope_v to_o make_v evident_a when_o we_o come_v to_o particular_n mr._n humphrey_n 21._o pag._n 19_o 20_o &_o 21._o some_o be_v uncapable_a of_o the_o ordinance_n by_o nature_n namely_o such_o as_o can_v discern_v no_o meaning_n thereof_o as_o infant_n the_o distract_a natural_a fool_n in_o opposition_n to_o the_o ignorant_a that_o be_v of_o age_n and_o that_o first_o because_o discern_v the_o lord_n body_n can_v be_v a_o duty_n in_o the_o former_a etc._n etc._n second_o because_o sign_n can_v work_v upon_o the_o unintelligent_a as_o to_o any_o real_a effect_n ans_fw-fr 1._o here_o you_o see_v one_o middle_a thing_n between_o church-membership_a and_o truth_n of_o grace_n infant_n etc._n etc._n be_v church-member_n and_o divers_a of_o they_o have_v truth_n of_o grace_n yet_o be_v uncapable_a of_o admittance_n to_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o m._n humphrey_n his_o judgement_n for_o lack_v of_o understanding_n which_o therefore_o must_v be_v add_v to_o church-membership_a as_o a_o qualification_n for_o admittance_n hominem_fw-la i_o here_o dispute_v ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la second_o why_o may_v not_o unintelligent_a person_n be_v admit_v as_o well_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n as_o to_o baptism_n since_o they_o understand_v and_o discern_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n as_o much_o in_o that_o as_o the_o water_n of_o the_o spirit_n in_o this_o and_o if_o bread_n and_o wine_n can_v work_v upon_o the_o unintelligent_a no_o more_o can_v water_n both_o be_v sacramental_a sign_n if_o therefore_o mr._n humphrey_n will_v keep_v to_o his_o rule_n he_o must_v deny_v infant_n baptism_n as_o well_o as_o the_o lord_n supper_n if_o he_o urge●_n that_o discern_v the_o lord_n body_n be_v require_v in_o all_o receiver_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n 1_o cor._n 11._o 29._o ans_fw-fr 1_o if_o discern_v the_o lord_n supper_n be_v necessary_a as_o to_o admittance_n this_o strong_o justify_v our_o way_n of_o try_v person_n before_o we_o admit_v if_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a as_o to_o admittance_n then_o how_o dare_v he_o exclude_v any_o church-member_n from_o the_o sacrament_n and_o punish_v infant_n etc._n etc._n by_o suspend_v they_o who_o be_v only_o natural_o uncapable_a when_o at_o the_o same_o time_n he_o witting_o admit_v those_o who_o be_v moral_o uncapable_a we_o grant_v elder_a person_n ought_v to_o get_v understanding_n which_o we_o endeavour_v to_o work_v in_o they_o by_o offer_v to_o instruct_v they_o who_o we_o find_v ignorant_a against_o the_o next_o sacrament_n and_o divers_a we_o doubt_v not_o will_n bless_v god_n to_o eternity_n that_o by_o a_o temporary_a suspension_n they_o be_v bring_v out_o of_o the_o darkness_n of_o ignorance_n and_o sin_n into_o the_o light_n of_o knowledge_n and_o grace_n but_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o because_o they_o ought_v to_o get_v understanding_n therefore_o they_o must_v be_v admit_v before_o they_o have_v it_o be_v not_o their_o privative_a ignorance_n a_o great_a bar_n than_o child_n negative_a ignorance_n we_o further_o grant_v they_o may_v be_v wrought_v upon_o by_o many_o part_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o therefore_o suspend_v they_o not_o from_o presence_n but_o only_o from_o actual_a receive_n it_o till_o mr._n humphrey_n can_v prove_v the_o ultimate_a act_n of_o receive_v to_o be_v a_o convert_v ordinance_n but_o till_o then_o these_o two_o great_a reason_n of_o he_o may_v well_o prove_v gravell-stone_n in_o his_o own_o bowel_n but_o not_o in_o our_o tooth_n what_o ever_o he_o may_v please_v to_o fancy_v of_o they_o mr._n humphrey_n allow_v 23._o pag._n 23._o that_o person_n excommunicate_a ipso_fw-la jure_fw-la shall_v be_v suspend_v namely_o person_n guilty_a of_o notorious_a and_o evident_a crime_n etc._n etc._n yet_o this_o he_o mince_v again_o say_v i_o do_v not_o hold_v the_o minister_n or_o church_n be_v always_o bind_v to_o take_v cognizance_n hereof_o for_o what_o have_v be_v show_v already_o so_o plain_o in_o the_o pattern_n of_o christ_n see_v more_o of_o this_o kind_n page_n 26._o where_o he_o make_v the_o keep_n away_o or_o suspend_v of_o person_n jure_v excommunicate_a but_o a_o prudentiall_a ans_fw-fr 1._o be_v not_o here_o another_o middle_a thing_n to_o be_v a_o rule_n of_o admission_n beside_o church-membership_a person_n jure_v excommunicate_a be_v church-member_n till_o actual_o excommunicate_v and_o therefore_o either_o must_v be_v admit_v or_o mr._n humphrey_n his_o former_a rule_n be_v false_a 2._o note_v further_o and_o tremble_v mr._n humphrey_n hold_v the_o minister_n and_o church_n be_v not_o always_o bind_v to_o take_v cognisance_n of_o a_o zimri_n and_o cosbi_n a_o person_n stark_o stare_v drink_v incestuous_a marriage_n those_o who_o come_v new_o reak_a out_n of_o open_a enormity_n such_o as_o public_o renounce_v christ_n or_o say_v they_o will_v believe_v on_o he_o such_o as_o be_v in_o notorious_a malice_n will_v not_o forgive_v but_o profess_v their_o obstinacy_n but_o may_v admit_v these_o come_n to_o the_o sacrament_n though_o convict_v by_o evidence_n of_o the_o fact_n so_o they_o be_v not_o juridical_o sentence_v and_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la excommunicate_v let_v the_o reader_n compare_v page_n 21._o and_o 22._o and_o see_v if_o i_o wrong_v he_o if_o this_o latitude_n of_o admission_n turn_v not_o god_n house_n into_o a_o den_n of_o thief_n i_o know_v not_o what_o will_n well_o may_v person_n excommunicable_a as_o he_o call_v they_o be_v admit_v if_o the_o former_a rabble_n of_o hell_n may_v pass_v 3._o note_v further_o the_o good_a use_n he_o make_v of_o judas_n his_o admittance_n suppose_v he_o be_v admit_v by_o our_o saviour_n by_o make_v it_o a_o precedent_n for_o the_o admittance_n of_o the_o vile_a convict_a miscreant_n that_o ever_o the_o earth_n groan_v under_o so_o they_o be_v not_o actual_o excommunicate_v let_v i_o to_o evidence_n the_o absurdity_n of_o this_o instance_n of_o his_o enlarge_v it_o a_o little_a as_o christ_n do_v not_o suspend_v so_o he_o do_v not_o excommunicate_a juaas_n nor_o send_v to_o the_o high_a priest_n or_o officer_n for_o evidence_n against_o he_o though_o he_o be_v jure_v excommunicate_a for_o the_o foul_a treason_n that_o ever_o the_o sun_n behold_v ergo_fw-la the_o church_n must_v not_o excommunicate_v actual_o the_o vile_a monster_n of_o man_n though_o never_o so_o clear_o convict_v by_o evidence_n of_o the_o fact_n or_o at_o least_o they_o do_v not_o sin_n in_o not_o excommunicate_v they_o because_o christ_n do_v not_o think_v fit_a to_o excommunicate_v judas_n actual_o who_o be_v jure_v excommunicate_a see_v whither_o a_o engagement_n in_o loose_a principle_n will_v not_o drive_v man_n but_o i_o hope_v mr._n humphrey_n upon_o a_o review_n will_v be_v of_o another_o mind_n how_o ever_o prejudice_n and_o preingagement_n may_v cloud_v his_o judgement_n for_o the_o present_a mr._n hum._n 23._o pag._n 23._o and_o here_o i_o must_v complain_v of_o my_o opposer_n be_v not_o these_o word_n unless_o excommunicate_a ipso_fw-la jure_fw-la or_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la page_v 24._o in_o all_o three_o edition_n and_o why_o then_o do_v he_o so_o overly_o and_o contemptible_o bring_v a_o odium_fw-la on_o i_o by_o be_v willing_a not_o to_o see_v or_o understand_v they_o etc._n etc._n ans_fw-fr herein_o i_o be_o sure_a i_o have_v cause_n to_o complain_v of_o my_o opposer_n let_v the_o reader_n peruse_v his_o vindication_n page_n 24._o and_o find_v if_o he_o can_v one_o word_n of_o excommunicate_a jure_fw-la or_o facto_fw-la there_o indeed_o in_o that_o page_n he_o challenge_v both_o independent_o and_o presbyterian_o but_o in_o the_o edition_n of_o his_o vindication_n print_v 1642._o i_o find_v not_o one_o word_n about_o excommunication_n much_o less_o that_o distinction_n of_o excommunicate_a jure_fw-la and_o facto_fw-la nor_o do_v i_o remember_v it_o be_v in_o any_o part_n of_o his_o vindication_n so_o far_o be_v i_o from_o shut_v my_o eye_n against_o it_o that_o have_v i_o find_v it_o there_o i_o shall_v probable_o have_v improve_v it_o then_o as_o i_o do_v now_o in_o order_n to_o his_o conviction_n mr._n h._n 23._o page_n 23._o as_o to_o the_o church_n or_o minister_n i_o hold_v &_o do_v hold_v that_o all_o church-member_n that_o be_v neither_o unintelligent_a nor_o excommunicate_a ought_v free_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o this_o ordinance_n some_o case_n in_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a prudence_n be_v consider_v ans_fw-fr 1._o do_v it_o not_o hence_o clear_o follow_v that_o the_o suspension_n of_o person_n jure_v

weak_a brethren_n 2_o we_o grant_v and_o agree_v with_o mr._n humphrey_n that_o the_o apostle_n do_v plain_o reason_n from_o their_o partake_n of_o one_o of_o these_o table_n against_o their_o partake_n of_o the_o other_o which_o make_v much_o for_o we_o and_o against_o himself_o from_o their_o partake_n of_o the_o devil_n table_n he_o argue_v against_o their_o partake_n of_o the_o lord_n table_n as_o well_o as_o from_o their_o partake_n of_o the_o lord_n table_n he_o argue_v against_o their_o partake_n of_o the_o devil_n table_n what_o follow_v then_o by_o mr._n humphrey_n his_o own_o grant_n but_o that_o as_o those_o who_o partake_v of_o the_o lord_n table_n ought_v not_o to_o partake_v of_o the_o devil_n table_n so_o those_o who_o partake_v of_o the_o devil_n table_n ought_v not_o to_o partake_v of_o the_o lord_n table_n a_o clear_a evidence_n for_o s._n spension_n of_o church-member_n that_o be_v moral_o unclean_a the_o apostle_n do_v not_o say_v they_o ought_v to_o be_v excommunicate_v in_o mr._n humphrey_n his_o sense_n by_o sequestration_n from_o all_o ordinance_n but_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o receive_v the_o lord_n supper_n and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v suspend_v but_o whereas_o he_o add_v those_o who_o be_v engage_v from_o go_v to_o idol_n partake_v of_o the_o l●rds_n supper_n but_o it_o be_v not_o the_o regenerate_a only_o but_o all_o their_o intelligent_a member_n be_v hereby_o engage_v from_o idol_n ergo_fw-la all_o their_o intelligent_a member_n partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o be_v to_o partake_v of_o it_o if_o the_o apostle_n argument_n be_v sufficient_a ans_fw-fr he_o may_v as_o well_o argue_v those_o who_o be_v engage_v against_o open_a renounce_n of_o christ_n buggery_n witchcraft_n blasphemy_n murder_n the_o sin_n against_o the_o holy_a ghost_n etc._n etc._n partake_v of_o the_o lord_n supper_n but_o it_o be_v not_o the_o regenerate_a only_o but_o all_o their_o intelligent_a member_n be_v by_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n engage_v against_o the_o former_a crime_n even_o those_o who_o be_v most_o guilty_a of_o they_o and_o that_o upon_o open_a conviction_n have_v no_o show_n of_o repentance_n and_o so_o be_v ipso_fw-la jure_fw-la excommunicate_a ergò_fw-la all_o their_o intelligent_a member_n yea_o even_o those_o who_o be_v jure_v excommunicate_a do_v partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o be_v to_o partake_v of_o it_o if_o the_o apostle_n argument_n be_v sufficient_a you_o see_v how_o the_o man_n rise_v in_o his_o latitude_n for_o admission_n to_o the_o sacrament_n page_n 21._o and_o 22._o he_o yield_v that_o person_n ipso_fw-la jure_fw-la excommunicate_a may_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o sacrament_n though_o they_o be_v not_o actual_o excommunicate_v argue_v mr._n humph._n say_v not_o so_o in_o express_a term_n but_o it_o follow_v necessary_o by_o consequence_n from_o his_o way_n of_o argue_v here_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o even_o person_n ipso_fw-la jure_fw-la excommunicate_v aught_o to_o receive_v and_o therefore_o must_v not_o be_v keep_v back_o or_o else_o the_o apostle_n argument_n be_v not_o sufficient_a yea_o further_o if_o mr._n humphrey_n argument_n be_v good_a shall_v not_o child_n distract_v and_o excommunicate_v person_n be_v admit_v also_o to_o the_o lord_n table_n since_o all_o these_o be_v engage_v against_o sin_n as_o well_o as_o the_o regenerate_a but_o this_o i_o will_v not_o press_v his_o next_o proof_n be_v draw_v from_o 1_o cor._n 10._o verse_n 3_o 4_o 5._o here_o he_o bring_v in_o calvin_n as_o agree_v with_o he_o in_o his_o explication_n that_o all_o the_o israelite_n be_v baptise_a do_v eat_v of_o the_o manna_n and_o drink_v of_o the_o rock_n and_o have_v free_a admission_n to_o those_o sacrament_n all_o which_o we_o easy_o grant_v as_o be_v clear_a in_o the_o text._n against_o this_o he_o say_v i_o bring_v two_o exception_n 1._o i_o say_v he_o speak_v gratis_o in_o say_v they_o be_v admit_v to_o our_o sacrament_n mr._n humphrey_n i_o pray_v see_v the_o word_n do_v saint_n paul_n speak_v gratis_o they_o do_v all_o eat_v the_o same_o spiritual_a meat_n etc._n etc._n nay_o he_o say_v not_o only_o the_o same_o spiritual_a meat_n but_o the_o same_o spiritual_a symbol_n etc._n etc._n ans_fw-fr 1._o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o same_o refer_v clear_o as_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o context_n evidence_v not_o to_o the_o unity_n of_o their_o and_o our_o sacrament_n in_o order_n to_o the_o symbol_n or_o element_n of_o each_o which_o be_v as_o manifest_o distinct_a as_o wheaten-bread_n and_o manna_n wine_n and_o water_n but_o to_o their_o unity_n in_o receive_v or_o their_o mix_a communion_n in_o those_o element_n pell-mell_a without_o distinction_n of_o good_a and_o bad_a distract_a or_o sober_a infant_n or_o elder_a person_n circumcise_v or_o uncircumcised_a israelite_n or_o heathen_a in_o the_o mix_a multitude_n exod._n 12._o 38._o numb_a 11._o 4._o ans_fw-fr 2_o lie_n their_o baptism_n indeed_o have_v the_o same_o symbol_n of_o water_n with_o we_o but_o be_v their_o sacramental_a meat_n and_o drink_v the_o same_o symbol_n with_o we_o then_o their_o manna_n be_v our_o manchet-bread_n and_o their_o water_n be_v our_o wine_n well_o may_v mr._n humphrey_n persuade_v man_n that_o all_o church-member_n before_o excommunication_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n if_o upon_o his_o dictate_v they_o can_v present_o believe_v that_o the_o manna_n be_v bread_n make_v of_o wheat_n and_o the_o rockwater_n be_v wine_n christ_n can_v turn_v water_n into_o wine_n but_o than_o it_o must_v cease_v to_o be_v water_n but_o mr._n humphrey_n can_v make_v the_o element_n of_o water_n to_o be_v both_o wine_n and_o water_n at_o the_o same_o instant_n nor_o will_v that_o shift_n help_v he_o because_o we_o sometime_o have_v sack_n sometime_o claret_n since_o sack_n and_o claret_n be_v evident_o under_o one_o kind_n namely_o under_o the_o kind_n of_o wine_n but_o so_o be_v not_o water_n and_o to_o strip_v he_o of_o this_o cavil_n let_v mr._n humphrey_n give_v water_n in_o stead_n of_o wine_n at_o the_o sacrament_n will_v any_o say_v he_o give_v the_o same_o element_n or_o symbol_n with_o wine_n i_o deny_v not_o but_o calvin_n say_v they_o enjoy_v the_o same_o symbol_n but_o do_v not_o mr._n humphrey_n know_v there_o be_v identitas_fw-la generica_fw-la &_o specifica_fw-la generical_o a_o man_n and_o a_o tree_n be_v the_o same_o yet_o it_o be_v absurd_a to_o say_v a_o man_n be_v a_o tree_n or_o a_o tree_n be_v a_o man_n so_o generical_o wine_n and_o water_n be_v the_o same_o symboll_n both_o be_v under_o the_o genus_fw-la of_o corpus_fw-la inanimatum_fw-la but_o he_o who_o therefore_o shall_v say_v that_o wine_n and_o water_n be_v the_o same_o symbol_n will_v speak_v incongruous_o and_o may_v as_o well_o ay_o that_o bread_n and_o water_n be_v the_o same_o symbol_n since_o they_o be_v the_o same_o generical_o as_o be_v both_o of_o they_o inanimate_a body_n mr._n humphrey_n therefore_o may_v well_o have_v spare_v this_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d as_o understand_v my_o meaning_n well_o enough_o and_o that_o i_o grant_v their_o sacrament_n and_o we_o be_v the_o same_o as_o to_o the_o thing_n signify_v mr._n humphrey_n 50._o pag._n 50._o whereas_o he_o urge_v here_o the_o uncircumcised_a and_o infant_n which_o be_v now_o thrice_o be_v admit_v his_o argument_n will_v but_o ever_o come_v to_o this_o that_o because_o our_o scripture_n sometime_o seem_v to_o prove_v more_o therefore_o they_o can_v prove_v the_o less_o ans_fw-fr 1._o mr._n humphrey_n see_v he_o be_v pinch_v here_o and_o may_v with_o far_o more_o honour_n have_v confess_v his_o error_n than_o by_o make_v a_o vainflourish_n have_v baffle_v his_o reader_n especial_o consider_v whether_o this_o place_n be_v for_o he_o or_o no_o it_o be_v not_o much_o material_a to_o his_o cause_n the_o sacrament_n be_v extraordinary_a both_o in_o their_o institution_n and_o their_o use_n miraculous_a in_o their_o institution_n common_a in_o their_o use_n and_o as_o to_o their_o sacramental_a element_n their_o very_a beast_n do_v partake_v at_o least_o of_o some_o of_o they_o or_o else_o they_o must_v have_v choke_v for_o want_n of_o water_n exod._n 17._o verse_n 32._o 6._o numb_a 20._o 8._o which_o put_v a_o wide_a difference_n between_o they_o and_o sacrament_n in_o ordinary_a 2_o lie_n here_o further_o his_o vanity_n appear_v in_o upbraid_v i_o now_o the_o three_o time_n with_o that_o passage_n of_o infantadmission_n which_o make_v so_o much_o for_o i_o and_o against_o himself_o 3_o lie_n we_o deny_v not_o the_o strength_n of_o that_o argument_n either_o in_o scripture_n or_o elsewhere_o draw_v a_o majore_fw-la and_o minus_fw-la but_o willing_o grant_v where_o the_o scripture_n prove_v the_o great_a it_o prove_v the_o less_o where_o it_o prove_v more_o it_o prove_v few_o in_o a_o right_a

be_v ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a no_o not_o judas_n himself_o therefore_o he_o or_o their_o receive_n be_v no_o warrant_n for_o any_o ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a person_n to_o receive_v mr._n humph._n this_o be_v not_o true_a for_o indeed_o we_o shall_v find_v both_o ignorance_n in_o the_o apostle_n and_o scandal_n in_o judas_n the_o apostle_n be_v ignorant_a of_o christ_n death_n and_o resurrection_n and_o of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o judas_n have_v make_v his_o bargain_n to_o betray_v christ_n ans_fw-fr 1._o they_o know_v christ_n to_o be_v the_o bread_n and_o water_n of_o life_n and_o the_o saviour_n of_o the_o world_n john_n 6._o 68_o 69._o second_o have_v as_o much_o knowledge_n as_o may_v stand_v with_o grace_n three_o be_v willing_a upon_o all_o occasion_n to_o be_v further_o instruct_v and_o catechise_v by_o christ_n and_o we_o trust_v mr._n humphrey_n shall_v never_o be_v able_a to_o charge_v we_o with_o keep_v any_o away_o who_o be_v of_o this_o temper_n as_o for_o judas_n though_o he_o have_v make_v his_o bargain_n of_o betray_v christ_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o then_o scandalous_a nor_o do_v christ_n though_o he_o know_v it_o well_o enough_o discover_v that_o judas_n have_v make_v any_o such_o bargain_n but_o do_v only_o foretell_v that_o judas_n will_v betray_v he_o however_o therefore_o pag._n 15_o &_o 16._o he_o be_v please_v to_o charge_v i_o as_o speak_v a_o very_a untruth_n a_o grain_n of_o charity_n may_v have_v inform_v he_o that_o judas_n however_o he_o purpose_v plot_v and_o contract_v all_o which_o he_o know_v or_o may_v know_v i_o believe_v as_o well_o as_o himself_o yet_o betray_v not_o christ_n as_o to_o the_o execution_n till_o he_o kiss_v he_o in_o the_o garden_n true_o in_o god_n account_n a_o purpose_n plot_n and_o contract_n of_o evil_n be_v a_o execution_n thereof_o but_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a court_n proceed_v usual_o by_o evidence_n of_o the_o fact_n not_o of_o the_o purpose_n plot_n or_o contract_n i_o may_v add_v that_o john_n 13._o for_o 18_o 19_o 21._o 27._o our_o bless_a saviour_n even_o after_o the_o discovery_n look_v at_o judas_n his_o betray_v he_o as_o a_o future_a act_n in_o some_o sense_n therefore_o it_o be_v a_o truth_n that_o judas_n have_v not_o betray_v christ_n and_o if_o so_o than_o i_o do_v not_o speak_v a_o very_a untruth_n in_o say_v judas_n have_v not_o yet_o betray_v christ_n no_o more_o than_o peter_n have_v deny_v he_o understand_v it_o of_o the_o ultimate_a and_o complete_n act_n of_o his_o treachery_n which_o christ_n endeavourd_v to_o prevent_v by_o the_o commination_n as_o well_o as_o peter_n denial_n by_o the_o premonition_n beside_o our_o saviour_n dispensation_n here_o be_v extraordinary_a admit_v only_a man_n minister_n apostle_n and_o that_o without_o self-examination_n forego_v which_o be_v no_o rule_n for_o our_o imitation_n in_o point_n of_o sacramental_a admittance_n no_o more_o be_v his_o admittance_n of_o judas_n suppose_v he_o do_v receive_v and_o if_o this_o supposition_n fail_v where_o be_v master_n humphrey_n his_o superstructure_n upon_o it_o his_o upbraid_v i_o again_o by_o compare_v christ_n with_o the_o presbytery_n have_v be_v former_o answer_v which_o therefore_o with_o other_o passage_n of_o less_o moment_n for_o brevity_n sake_n i_o pass_v i_o shall_v only_o add_v this_o judas_n his_o treachery_n if_o it_o be_v before_o the_o complete_n of_o it_o matter_n for_o a_o judicial_a cognizance_n and_o if_o christ_n extraordinary_a knowledge_n and_o discovery_n of_o it_o be_v legal_a evidence_n as_o mr._n humphrey_n will_v ●ave_n it_o be_v a_o just_a ground_n of_o excommunication_n yet_o our_o saviour_n do_v not_o excommunicate_v he_o for_o it_o no_o more_o than_o he_o do_v suspend_v he_o nor_o do_v he_o send_v to_o the_o high_a priest_n or_o their_o officer_n for_o evidence_n against_o judas_n may_v not_o the_o church_n therefore_o excommunicate_a or_o seek_v for_o evidence_n against_o scandalous_a or_o suspect_a person_n even_o before_o this_o all_o judgement_n be_v commit_v to_o christ_n john_n 5._o 22._o yet_o we_o read_v not_o that_o christ_n judge_v any_o either_o civil_o or_o ecclesiastical_o but_o rather_o the_o quite_o contrary_a john_n 8._o 11_o &_o 12._o 47._o do_v it_o therefore_o follow_v that_o either_o the_o magistrate_n or_o the_o presbytery_n do_v lift_v up_o themselves_o above_o christ_n the_o great_a master_n of_o discipline_n because_o they_o undertake_v that_o both_o in_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a judgement_n which_o our_o bless_a lord_n will_v not_o meddle_v withal_o in_o his_o state_n of_o humiliation_n mr._n humphrey_n 18._o pag._n 18._o as_o for_o the_o question_n whether_o he_o act_v as_o a_o minister_n or_o mediator_n it_o be_v vain_a for_o he_o act_v as_o both_o he_o can_v not_o institute_v a_o ordinance_n for_o his_o church_n but_o as_o he_o be_v head_n and_o mediator_n nor_o can_v he_o administer_v it_o but_o as_o a_o minister_n ans_fw-fr 1._o if_o this_o question_n be_v vain_a the_o more_o to_o blame_v mr._n humphrey_n who_o trouble_v his_o reader_n with_o it_o especial_o since_o we_o both_o agree_v christ_n act_v here_o both_o as_o a_o mediator_n and_o as_o a_o minister_n second_o i_o only_o distinguish_v between_o christ_n act_v as_o a_o mediator_n and_o as_o a_o minister_n and_o add_v that_o christ_n be_v imitable_a not_o in_o his_o act_n as_o a_o mediator_n but_o as_o a_o minister_n we_o doubt_v not_o but_o christ_n as_o mediator_n may_v be_v both_o judge_n and_o witness_v but_o in_o that_o he_o be_v no_o pattern_n for_o our_o imitation_n if_o as_o a_o minister_n he_o may_v be_v both_o judge_n and_o witness_v than_o every_o minister_n may_v be_v both_o judge_n and_o witness_n three_o mr._n humphrey_n himself_o here_o grant_v christ_n can_v not_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n but_o as_o a_o minister_n yet_o at_o the_o same_o time_n christ_n be_v mediator_n we_o say_v christ_n as_o mediator_n may_v be_v both_o judge_n and_o witness_v but_o not_o as_o a_o minister_n will_v he_o forbid_v we_o the_o same_o liberty_n of_o distinction_n he_o take_v himself_o the_o other_o instance_n he_o except_v against_o pag._n 18._o of_o christ_n administer_a it_o only_o to_o minister_n etc._n etc._n prove_v strong_o that_o all_o christ_n do_v at_o the_o supper_n be_v no_o necessary_a rule_n for_o our_o imitation_n among_o which_o judas_n his_o admission_n upon_o mr._n humphrey_n his_o supposal_n be_v one_o fall_v under_o the_o same_o notion_n unless_o mr._n humphrey_n can_v prove_v that_o christ_n do_v not_o only_o admit_v judas_n a_o person_n then_o as_o he_o say_v scandalous_a but_o also_o with_o this_o very_a intention_n that_o his_o practice_n herein_o may_v be_v a_o rule_n for_o all_o minister_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n to_o admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n scandalous_a person_n as_o for_o his_o appeal_n in_o the_o close_a of_o pag._n 18_o i_o have_v show_v former_o that_o mr._n timson_n though_o his_o second_o in_o this_o cause_n look_v not_o at_o judas_n his_o receive_n or_o not_o receive_v as_o clear_o argumentative_a in_o this_o cause_n pag._n 3_o &_o 4._o and_o shall_v the_o stress_n of_o this_o controversy_n lie_v upon_o judas_n his_o receive_n or_o his_o not_o receive_v at_o what_o uncertainty_n shall_v we_o be_v about_o our_o practice_n herein_o when_o it_o be_v so_o hard_a to_o determine_v out_o of_o scripture_n whether_o judas_n receive_v or_o not_o his_o quotation_n out_o of_o doctor_n hammond_n make_v not_o for_o his_o purpose_n we_o easy_o grant_v with_o that_o learned_a clerk_n that_o christian_a professor_n may_v lawful_o be_v admit_v though_o their_o heart_n be_v full_a of_o villainy_n and_o when_o we_o have_v do_v all_o we_o can_v such_o will_v be_v admit_v where_o we_o find_v competency_n of_o knowledge_n profess_a subjection_n to_o all_o the_o way_n of_o christ_n not_o contradict_v by_o a_o scandalous_a life_n we_o bless_v god_n for_o the_o good_a we_o see_v in_o they_o cheerful_o give_v they_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o fellowship_n leave_v their_o heart_n and_o inward_a condition_n to_o god_n judgement_n for_o that_o other_o worthy_a gentleman_n he_o quote_v in_o the_o end_n of_o this_o section_n i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o believe_v what_o ever_o may_v be_v his_o judgement_n about_o judas_n his_o receive_n he_o be_v not_o of_o mr._n humphrey_n his_o latitude_n for_o admittance_n to_o the_o sacrament_n sect._n iii_o mr._n humphrey_n come_v to_o the_o state_v of_o his_o question_n in_o which_o for_o explication_n pag._n 20._o he_o premise_v that_o between_o these_o two_o a_o covenant-relation_n visible_a and_o truth_n of_o grace_n which_o be_v invisible_a there_o be_v no_o middle_a thing_n enjoin_v in_o the_o scripture_n for_o the_o rule_n of_o our_o admission_n answ_n if_o this_o rule_n be_v true_a than_o mr._n humphrey_n do_v very_o ill_a to_o coin_v divers_a middle_a thing_n for_o