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A69195 Certaine demandes with their grounds, drawne out of holy writ, and propounded in foro conscientiæ by some religious gentl. vnto the reverend fathers, Richard archbishop of Canterbury, Richard bishop of London, William bishop of Lincolne, Garvase bishop of Worcester, William bishop of Exeter, & Thomas bishop of Peterbourough wherevnto the said gentl. require that it would please their lordships to make a true, plaine, direct, honest and resolute aunswere. Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610. 1605 (1605) STC 6572.5; ESTC S112734 57,418 70

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outward forme and maner of acting any service vnto God by our Saviour Christ or his Apostles in prayer preaching the word administring the Sacraments was an vnorderly or an vndecent forme or maner of acting that service before God yea or no If your Lordships answere as the trueth is that the outward maner of acting every kind of service by our Saviour Christ his Apostles was so decently orderly done and so acceptable vnto God as nothing in the outward acting thereof could be more wee then pray your Lordships to resolve vs first what warrant you have out of holy writt to disseyse all the Ministers of the outward acting of the whole worship of God in prayer and administring the Sacraments without a Surplice Secondly what warrant you have from the spirit of Christ to disseyse all the Ministers of the acting of some part of Gods worship in the administration of publike Baptisme without making a crosse vpon the childes forehead and signing him with the signe of the crosse Lastly what approbation you have from the spirit of Christ wholy to disseyse all the sonnes and daughters of God of the acte of sitting in the acte of receiving the Sacrament of the Lordes Supper For in that you have commanded that no Minister when he celebrateth the communiō shall wittingly administer the same to any but to such as kneel you haue by consequence inhibited every one that sitteth to receive the same And thus to establish your owne humane decencie and order of kneeling in the acte of receiving the communion you have disseysed vs of that Euangelicall decencie and order of sitting warranted vnto the Ministers and vnto vs by the example of our Saviour Christ and his Apostles whē as at his last Supper he him self delivered both the Bread and the Wine vnto his Apostles as they sate and not as they kneeled at the Table whereby it appeareth that you looked not vnto the holy one of Israell nor sought vnto the Lord and he yet is wisest But Sirs by your patience it is not required as a thing of meere necessitie as though without kneeling the Sacrament might not lawfully be ministred and received at all but for reverence and conformities sake only it is commanded that the people should kneele Why then by your Lordships favour we demand vnto whom this reverence is yealded and vnto what thing this conformitie is proportioned for that this forme of kneeling is not conformed to the Apostles maner of sitting at the table is evident nether can it be denyed but that this kinde of reverence is fashioned like to that maner of reverence which every catholicke fornicatour by the ordinance of his love the great whore doeth yealde vnto his Idoll when he received his breaden god wherefore we pray your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy Writt whether your conformitie and your reverence of kneeling in the acte of receiving the Sacrament of the Lordes Supper may not rightly be condemned as things not having any due reverence conformitie or proportion with the written Law of God or example of our Saviour Christ and his Apostles before mencioned Besides we demand whether your Lordships had not worthely deserved to have bene much praised and commended by all the churches for that thanks might have bene given by many vnto God for you if so be for reverence vnto the example of our Saviour Christ who did all things well and conformitie to his Apostles ye had commanded the people not to have kneeled in the acte of receiving after the fashion of the catholicke fornicatours who doe all things ill but rather to have sitten after the maner of the Apostles especially sithence betwene this maner prescribed of receiving the Sacrament of the Lordes Supper kneeling the maner of the receiving the Sacrament of Baptisme yea and the word it selfe sitting or standing and not kneeling there can be found no maner of conformitie at all And yet as we deny not when we come to the Font or to the Sermon both before after the Word preached and Baptisme administred but that we ought reverently and vniformely to kneele in prayer thankesgiving prescribed by the booke Even so also we acknowledge when we come to the Lords Table that before and after the deliverie and receiving of the Sacrament we ought to confesse our sinnes to pray and to give thankes reverently and vniformely kneeling vpon our knees But that we should more kneele in the very acte of receiving Bread and Wine at the Ministers hand at the Lords Table then in the name of our children in the very acte of our childrens receiving Water vpon their faces or being dipt in Water wee should kneele at the Font in the time of Baptisme we for our partes must confesse that as yet this mysterie of conformitie and reverence to kneele in the acte of receiving the communion is hidden from vs because we see no more needfulnesse of reverence and conformitie for kneeling to be in the acte of receiving the one Sacrament then to be in the act of receiving the other nor that there is any greater reverence or conformitie of kneeling to bee vsed when the Minister breaketh bread for our bodyes which perisheth at the communion Table then when he breaketh the bread of life for our soules which perisheth not in the Pulpit Nay furthermore what conformitie is there prescribed in the booke of common prayer when in one the same church and in one the same act of receiving the Lords Supper it permitteth the Minister to receive standing and prescribeth the people to receive kneeling or what greater reverence is there required by the sheepe then is to be performed by the sheepheard who should be an example to the flocke The words of the book for the Ministers standing when he receiveth the communion seeme vnto vs to bee so perspicuous and without all maner of ambiguitie as without an absurditie they can not bee construed to command a Minister to kneele for the maner how the Minister of the place or how other Ministers if any be present to helpe him should receive is not prescribed at all vnlesse it be prescribed that he and they should receive standing Nay howsoever in the same book it be said that the Minister shall deliver the communion in both kindes to the people in their hands kneeling neverthelesse it followeth not herevpon the law being not in the negative but in the affirmative that the Minister may not deliver the communion to the people standing or sitting or that the people be exactly bound not to stand or to sitt but to kneele Besides because by the booke of common prayer of the seconde of Edw. 6. wherevnto only as we take it touching ornaments rites and ceremonies our booke hath reference which booke also of Edw. the 6. by the repeale made of the statute of primo of Queene Mary in the first session of this last Parliament is revived because we say
assured that all those meates were restored to their primarie vse integritie and puritie And therefore these creatures being in their owne originall nature good and in the beginning sanctified by the Lord to the vse of mans life howsoever the idolaters prophanely abusively did sacrifice them vnto their idoles yet could those idoles never so pullute them by their abuse as that they might vtterly take away the good and profitable vse for the which they were first created But that Copes Surplices Crosses Candles and other memorialls and delectable things authorised by that man of sinne for the pompous service of his great idoll the Masse bee of the nature of meates or of the nature of gold and silver howsoever sacrificed vnto idolls we deny For first meates gold and silver in their owne nature were by creation as earst was saide good and to the ende wherevnto they were created ever blessed of God and never accursed whereas on the other side no reliques monuments or memorials of any idolatrie were ever blessed but ever accursed Secondly they were never in their first originall good or profitable no not for that vse wherevpon they were imployed for as the Idole it selfe is vayne vnprofitable polluted and abhominable yea nothing in respect of that thing which it representeth even so also bee all the accessories and appurtenances thereof damned and execrable Thirdly these reliques monumentes and memorialls of Idolatrie being not the workes of God created in the beginning for the vse of man but the workes of mens handes applied to the service of an Idol are not by the prohibition of God vncleane and polluted only for a tyme as certeyne meates were but are evermore by a perpetuall decree things damned and accursed for the vse of any service vnto God And therefore howsoever as meates are vsually solde in the shambles they may be sold in a spinsters or in an Embrotherers shopp and may be vsed by man to some benefite of this life yet that they may be translated from the service of an Idol to the worship of the trew God without warrant of being sanctified to that vse by the worde of God or that the Ministers and people professing the gospell may as intyrely freely vse and receive them in the outward worship of the trewe God as the popish priestes and people did in the service of their great Idoll the Masse we deny And whether you be able to prooue the contrarie out of holy Writ we demaund your resolutions And thus much for confirmation of the assumption of our former request it followeth that we demaund whether your Lordships by anie rule out of holy Writ be able to repugne these conclusions following First All Idolls with all their ornamentes and all their appurtenances by the doctrine of holy Scriptures as a menstruous cloth are to be cast away and to be bidden get you hence But the Popish Masse is an Idoll and all the Copes Surplices Crosses Candles c. have bene and yet be ornamentes and appurtenances vnto that Idole of the popish Masse Therefore the popish Masse and all Copes Surplices Crosses Candles c. as a menstruous cloth are to be cast away and to be bidden gett you hence Secōdly Whatsoever hath bene first invented by man and afterward appropried by authoritie of the great whore to be a note token badge or ensigne vnto all her lovers in the acte of her fornication the same ought not to be any note token badge or ensigne vnto the spouse of Christ or any her lovers in the acte of the outward worship of the true God But all Copes Surplices Crossings have bene first invēted by man appropried by authoritie of the great whore to be notes tokens badges and ensignes vnto all her lovers in the acte of her fornication Therefore no Copes Surplices Crosses c. ought to be any badge token or ensigne to the Spouse of Christ or any her lovers in the acte of the worship of the true God If your Lordships deny the truth of the first propositiō of the first argument to be proved by those places before quoted out of the law the Prophetes and Apostles then we pray your Lordships to yeeld vs some reason from other places of holy Writt for the confirmation of such your negation For vnto vs the letter of the scriptures seeme to be very direct plaine to the purpose for the which we have alleadged them If your Lordships deny the consequence of the first proposition of the second argument and affirme that the spouse of Christ and her lovers may lawfully weare in the outward acte of the worship of the true God the notes tokens badges and ensignes commanded by the great whore to be worne in the acte of her fornication then we demand by what places of holy Writ your Lordships be able to prove this your affirmation in the meane time give vs leave according to the measure of our skill to discharge the assum●t of the first argument from such error as happily at the first view may seeme in your opinions to bee conteyned therein If then your Lordships shall challenge the assumpt of the first argument either of particularitie or ambiguitie of the wordes Copes Surplices Crosses c. for that all Copes Surplices Crosses c. have not bene ●e now be ornamentes and appurtenances vnto that great Idoll of the Masse because some Copes Surplices Crosses c. be ornamentes and solemnites for the administration of Baptisme celebration of the Lords Supper and other divine services then for the adnulling aswell of your Lordships distinction as for the overthrow of all both new and ould Copes Surplices Crosses c. to be vsed by the Spouse and her lovers in the acte of the worship of the true God wee propound vnto your Lordships these groundes of holy Writt following wherevnto also we demaund your resolutions Beware least thou be taken in a snare after them after that they bee destroyed before thee least thou aske after their gods saying how did these nations serve their gods that I may do so likewise thou shalt not do so vnto the Lord thy God Ye are the children of the Lord your God you shall not cut your selves nor make you any baldnes betweene your eyes for the dead for thou art an holy people vnto the Lord thy God and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a precious people vnto him selfe above all the people that are vpon the earth What fellowship hath righteousnes with vnrighteousnes what communion hath light with darknes what concord hath Christ with Beliall or what parte hath the beleever with the infidell and what agreement hath the temple of God with Idolls Come I will shewe thee the damnation of the great whore that fitteth vpon many Waters with whom have committed fornication the Kings of the earth and the inhabitants of the earth are drunken with the wine of her fornication And I sawe seates and I sawe the soules of