Selected quad for the lemma: water_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
water_n bread_n lord_n wine_n 3,679 5 7.3104 4 false
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A57627 Truth vindicated being an answer to the high flown fancies of John Perrot (known by the name of a Quaker) in a paper with this inscription to all Baptists every where ... / by Randall Roper. Roper, Randall. 1661 (1661) Wing R1929; ESTC R25526 21,849 25

There are 3 snippets containing the selected quad. | View lemmatised text

Baptists every where or to any other that are under the watry Element and are not come to Christ the substance This inscription is full of ambiguity and doubtfulness if he means by watry Element water Baptisme and by coming to Christ the Substance the coming to Christ the Substance the coming of Christ by his Spirit and if he means that none of the Baptists that do own Baptisme to be a Principal of the Doctrine of Christ are come to Christ or Christ come to them I answer that it is a Lye for many with my self can experience his coming by his Spirit into our hearts and yet we dare not let go the Ordinances of Christ and this we have the sure Word of the Lord to all sincere hearted Souls that have respect to all the Commandements of God and of Christ whosoever abideth in the Doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and the Son that is Fellowship by the Spirit and that this is a Doctrine of Christ see Math. 28.19 20. Go yee teach all Nations Baptising them in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost Teaching them to observe all things that I command you and Loe I am with you alway unto the end of the World I shall have occasion anon to treat more largly upon this Text therefore I shall not now but you may see plainly and manifestly that it was to be practised in all Ages in all Nations and therefore this I say and testifie in the Lord Jesus that they that do keep close to the Ordinances of Gods House and do adorn it by any Holy Conversation they are come to Christ and Christ is come to them by his Spirit which is all the coming that is promised on this side the Grave in an unchanged condition as to their Bodies If thou wouldest perswade the World that a person cannot own water Baptisme have the Spirit of God thou art found a false Witness I shall shew anon though persons had the Spirit of God yet was to pass under and obey that Ordinance of Water Bpatisme he begins God dwelleth in deeps bottomeless beneeth your Element of Water whence he is utterly departed for it was too shallow for him and his incomprehensible Majesty liveth and raigneth farr above your cloudy Heavens which comprehended not but darkned his Brightness In which words instead of Proof there confident assortions and insteed of sound Arguments to prove what he saith he maketh use of Retorical sentences to deceive the Heart of the simple therefore I beseech you that fear the Lord to consider how he beats the Aire or else tells a manifest Lye If he means God dwelleth not by his special Presence in the Element of Water simply as water which I may safely take so because he calleth it your Element of Water then it is beating the Aire for who ever assorted any such thing I never heard the Baptist assert any such thing neither is he able to prove they Preach any such thing but if he meanes that God is not present with his People in the Administration of Water Baptisme then it is a Lye for the Promises of the Lord are sure he is God that cannot Lye and his counsel must stand who hath promised in the Administration of that very Ordidinance he will be with them to the end of the World Loe I am with you to the end of the World Math. 28.20 I shall not enlarge because of several Books which are yet extant wherein this truth hath been commended to the Consciences of men I would fain know of the Author of that Paper whether any men hath cloudy Heavens which may be appropriated to them for sayeth he your cloudy Heavens Oh thou private subtile and close deceivers when thou writeth again this I say to thee not to sturr up that Spirit of Errour in thee God knows my entent but if by any means it might awaken thee to return to the Lord from whence thou art deeply revolted write plainly that there may not be double meanings in thy words for know this that truth needs not doubtful words to hinder the bright ●rrayes to shine unto men but if he means by Heavens any coverings that are not of Gods alowance such as are forbidden Isa 30.1 We say so too and if so doth he not beat the Aire when the person that he writeth to own no such thing as he speaks of and he further saith He hath given them for a day of fire and your old Earth for a Consnmption in their flames If he meaneth by our old Earth the Earthy mindedness of Professors of the Truth then it may be read that God will cast his Ordinances into the fire that the sins of the People may be consumed though God may and doth cast his People into the fice yet he doth not use to cast his Ordinance into the fire but I find that though some Professors grew weary of the Ordinance of God by Earthly mindedness as in Mal. 3.14 Saying It is ni vain to serve the Lord and what Profit is it that we have kept his Ordinances and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord what doth the Lord do not destroy his Ordinances and Statutes but on the contrary commandeth the Observations of them Mal. 4.4 Remember ye the Law of Moses with the Statutes and Judgments that the Lord doth not take that way that this notionest Dreams of take this reason That wherein there is no Dross that is not to be cast into the fire but there is no Dross in the Ordinances of the Lord therefore not to be cast into the fire every Ordinance of the Lord is pure therefore doubtless it ariseth from impure hearts to say they must be cast into the fire consider this and hide the word of God in your hearts that you sin not against him He further saith you eat Bread and drink Wine as the Israelites did Manna and Water and yet in unbeliefe dyed in the Wilderness you rest in shaddows like the unbeleeving Jews though you know that in them you are but in the Touching Tasting Handling of the things that Perrish with the using I do answer that the visible Forms of Bread and Wine do remain and are not Transubstantiate yet this let we tell you by the word of the Lord that we do by faith in that Ordinance pertake of the Body and Blood of Christ Take saith Christ This is my Body drink you all of it this is my Blood of the new Testament Math. 26.26 27. And though we practise the Ordinances as they were delivered yet we live upon Christ in them and though I can not say every one discerns the Lords Body that eats the Bread and Drink the Wine for that was not found in the Church of Corinths which is manifest by what the Apostle saith 1 Corinth 11.29 For he that eats and drinks unworthly eats and drinks Damnation to himself not discerning the Lords Body for this cause some are sick c. From
not way to that Spirit of errour that will be getting up in you and let my words be acceptable unto you to this end to own the Scriptures of the Prophets of Christ and his Apostles which is able to make the wise to Salvation through faith in Christ Jesus 2 Tim. 3.15 and not to contemn them as is usual as one said to me which I am sure they owne when I said I had the word of God the Scriptures of Truth in me he asked me whether I had ink and paper in my heart Oh that such expressions might cease from amongst you I would fain know from any one of you whether all the Commandements contained in Scripture whether spoken by the Lord himself or by his Prophets or by his Son Jesus or by his Apostles which are not yet abrogated by the death of Christ are not the duty of the People of the Lord to observe and obey and whether the Commandements of God are of less vertue because they are written then if Jesus Christ did immediately speak them unto us and whereas you say we have passed through and left them this is no wonder if I may be certain in any thing what you mean by your expressions I may in this that you mean Baptisme other Ordinances of Gods House for the little number receiving Tenth and the few of them that do receive the Truth continuing in it it is an argument to me we are in the Truth rather than otherwise for saith Christ Fear not little flock for it is your Fathers good pleasure to give you the Kingdome Luke 12.32 It is not only so now but it was in the time while Christ was personally present many left him and walked no more with him John 6.66 And this is what is prophesied of 2 Thes 2.2 Let no man deceive you for that day shall not come except there come a falling away and saith the Apostle to Timothy some shall depart from the Faith but let us inquire into the reason which the Servant of the Lord Paul gives The first Reason 2 Thes 2.11.12 Is because they received not the Truth in the love of it and this hath been the reason of some falling away and receiving strong delusions for it hath been confessed to me by one of that Principle that she did submit to the Truth to wit Water-Baptisme because others did submit to it because it was in fashion and if any of your Consciences condemn you in this God is greater than your Consciences and knows all things repent of that your wickedness The second Reason which the Apostle rendreth of persons falling away of receiving strong delusions is because they had pleasure in unrighteousness it is possible that some may receive the Truth in the love of it and yet in time loose their first love and take pleasure in unrighteousness and so loose their peace and so run to airy notions of things that they may get peace which is not the true peace of God and this I find not only by the Scriptures of Truth but from their own expressions some of them hath said to me that they had not peace though at the first they had it and that they lived contrary to their consciences for some years before they received that which they call Truth Oh! that they would juslifie the Lord in his giving them up to believe strong delusions and take shame to themselves for doubtless the Lord will not be mocked for what they sow that they shall reap and though the way of God is at this day called Herisie and hath been so in daies past yet know this that Herisie is a fruit of the flesh as well as prophaneness in conversation and if you live and allow your selves in it you shall dye not only a natural death but the second death dear souls who are much upon my heart that have no ends but to glorifie God in what you do know this that the Devil can transform himself into an Angel of light and this I say to you by the word of the Lord that if men have never so much outward holiness upon them if they perswade you to forsake any of the Commandements of God do not believe them as you will answer it at the great day of the Lord read Galatians the first Chapter and let your Souls tremble at the word of the Lord now that it is the word of the Lord or the mind of the Lord which is all one which the Apostle Paul writeth see 1 Cor. 14.37 If any man think himself to be a Prophet or a spiritual man let him acknowledge the things that I write to be the Commondements of the Lord. Oh! that you of the Ministry as you are called would consider of this Scripture and not to appropriate that to your own Books which you will not allow the Scriptures and for you that say you went away because of the carnality of some Professors you ought to indeavoured their reformation and if not to have dealt with them according to the rule of Christ in that case and not to have forsaken the truth upon that account return return to the Lord and the Truth and you will find many amongst the Baptists as willing to own any thing that is of God as you can be to perswade them He further saith for know ye where God is present there needs not arepresention of him by any thing and where the eterual Fountain of all vertue is set open there needs not digging of other Wells for Water turn therefore to the light within the Conscience which is able to Baptise and wash your Souls from all Sin and make Rivers of living Water flow out of your belly which light is the alone Salvation of God he that loveth it and obeyeth it shall know it In answer to which I know not any Baptist that doth practise or doth set up any thing to represent God but hath renounced those hidden things of darkness and if so doth he not beat the Air when those persons that he writeth to doth not own any such thing but if he means where God is present there needs not outward forms in his Worship as Water in Baptisme and Bread and Wine in the Lords Supper then it is not true as to Baptisme that there must be Water I might give you many Scriptures yet I shall only give you but one because it is full pregnant Acts 10.47 Can any forbid Water that these should not be Baptised which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we For Bread and Wine in the Lords Supper see Mat. 26.16 He took Bread and so likewise the Cup compared with Luke 22.19 20. And therefore let none deceive you with vain words and whereas he saith turn to the light within which is able to Baptise wash from all sin and further saith it is the alone Savation of God such an exhortation we find not in all the Scriptures of Truth if every man is to turn to
have received the Spirit so well as we Therefore I conclude that God the Father and Jesus Christ by him are the Sole Baptisers with the Spirit then it is of necessity water Baptisme that he commissionates his Disciples to dispence I find but three Baptismes at the most in Scripture the Baptisme of the Spirit they cannot Administer the Baptisme of afflictions they surely are not to adminster to overwhelme one another in sufferings none I think will say they are to do therefore of necessity it is water Baptisme an other Objection which I met with from some of that principle say they though it were water Baptisme 28 of Math. Yet it was the Baptisme of John which was then are long to cease when that of the Spirit should come in I answer in briefe because I must draw to a conclusion that the Baptisme of water which is called Johns Baptisme is no otherwise his Baptisme then the Gospel which Paul preached was his Gospel and therefore when the Scripture calleth it the Baptisme of John it is the Baptisme which John was made the cheif administrator of and so the Law of God is called the Law of Moses and so I understand the Apostle Paul Rom. 2.16 When he saith That God shall judge men according to his Gospel according to my Gospel That is to say which I am appointed to preach yet it was the Gospel of Christ which he was to preach and so I say the Baptisme that John did administer was Christs Baptisme John was either the servant of Christ or the servant of the Devil that must be granted I hope none will say he was the Devils servant then if he was Christs servant then the service which he did was Christs service and then surely his Baptisme was Christs Baptisme which he did Administer and not his own no otherwise than he was the cheif Administrator of it consider this you that run upon Airey Notions and fill your Belly with East Wind which will not profit in the day of the Lord and that it was the Baptisme of Christ which John did Administer is manifest because Christ was Commisionated Authorized by the Father to Baptise with water as well as John though it being an external Water he left the actual doing of it to his Disciples amongst whom John was the cheif or else seeing in commanded others to do it and so Baptised by others at least if not by himself as John 3.22.4 1 2. His witness of himself John 12.39 Is it not true if he had not Commission from his Father so to do which would be Blasphemy to think for he saith that he spake nothing of himself but as the Father gave Commandement so he spake and likewise as the Father gave him Commandement so he did there are some circumstancial difference between water Baptisme before the Death of Christ and Baptiseme with water after the Death of Christ but this is undeniable that not only Christ did submit unto it command his Disciples to dispence it while he was with thee not only so but doth Commission his Disciples to be observing of it unto the end of the World after he was risen again Math. 28.19 And accordingly the Apostles did practise it in all the Primitive Church and that the coming of Christ by his Spirit doth not put an end of water Baptisme see Acts the 10.47 Can any forbid water that those should not be Baptised seeing they have received the Holy Ghost so well as we where you may see the Apostle Peter makes it an Argument that they must be Baptised with water seeing they have received the Spirit Oh why should you maintaine such opinions that are so contrary to the Spirit of God in his children in dayes past Oh be not wise above what is written for our Learning but lie low and be not exhalted in your selves see how contrary your Spirit that you are guided by is to the Spirit in that Apostle Peter was guided by he saith there is a necessity of water who can forbid water if there be the Baptisme of the Spirit you say if persons be Baptised by the Spirit they need not be Baptised in water consider of this in the dread of the Almighty and now I will come to that Ordiannce of breaking Bread and drinking Wine to shew forth the Lords Death untill he come and will shew that the coming of Christ by his Spirit doth not put an end to that Ordinance take this reason That which doth shew forth Christs Death that is to continue while he comes personal or himself but when we eate that Bread and drink that Cup we shew forth the Lords Death therefore it is to continue untill the personal coming of Christ see Gal. 3.1 Who hath bewitched you that you shall not obey the truth What is the reason he rendereth Before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth Crucified among you which was no otherwise then the Lords Supper I will add this Argument grounded with the Scriptures of Truth that which in the doing of persons do pertake by Faith of the Body and Blood of Christ that is to continue to the end of the World but in eating Bread and drinking Wine the faithful the sencere hearted do by Faith pertake of the Body and Blood of the Lord therefore to continue unto the end of the World for the first assertion see John 6.35 Excepta man eat my Flesh and drink my Blood yee have no Life now life is of absolute nesessity and therefore the means must continue to get this Life and that persons do by Faith in that very Ordinance partake of the Body and Blood of the Lord see Math. 16.26 Take eat this is my Body c. But in a word what need I spend time in reasoning from the benefits that it brings but may only say thus and who can deny it what Christ commanded his Disciples in that case is his Disciples duty to do at this day and that Christ did command see Mat. 26.26 Mark 14.22 Luke 22.19 20. Take eat this is my Body and that the coming of Christ by his Spirit doth not put an end to this Ordinance is manifest for the Church of Corinths had the Spirit in a plentiful measure did not come behind no Church but was enriched with knowledge utterance as you may see 1 Cor. 1.7 8 9. 1 Cor. 12.7 8 9. and so forward yet they did and ought nay was commended that they keep the Ordinances as they was delivered 1 Cor. 11.2 and so in the 26 verse As often as you eat this Bread drink this Cup you shew forth the Lords Death until he come Which of necessity must be an other coming than of his Spirit for by that he was come to them already but it is plain that it was a coming which they was not in the injoyment of for saith the Text vntil he come but as it was said before that he was come to them by his Spirit and