same_o ground_n term_n and_o condition_n that_o the_o def._n and_o rejoynder_n do_v arbitriâ—_n cum_fw-la velit_fw-la deuâ—_n ex_fw-la praescripto_fw-la legis_fw-la sva_fw-la coliâ—â—â—_n proinde_fw-la fictitios_fw-la â—ultus_fw-la detâ—stetur_fw-la fideâ—_n certereâ—_n ugnat_fw-la quicquam_fw-la oâ—us_fw-la mandatis_fw-la addi_fw-la hominum_fw-la arbitriâ—_n he_o say_v of_o they_o see_v god_n will_v be_v worship_v by_o the_o rule_n of_o his_o law_n and_o therefore_o detest_v all_o feign_a service_n it_o be_v undoubted_o contrary_a to_o faith_n that_o any_o thing_n be_v add_v to_o his_o precept_n by_o the_o judgement_n of_o man_n but_o that_o answer_n be_v only_o for_o a_o flourish_n the_o rejonder_n his_o second_o be_v that_o calvin_n speak_v of_o mystical_a ceremony_n excescive_o multiply_v as_o if_o both_o these_o can_v not_o stand_v together_o for_o to_o speak_v against_o any_o sin_n excessive_o multipy_v and_o yet_o withal_o against_o sin_n the_o prophet_n often_o speak_v of_o multiply_a idol_n altar_n fornication_n according_a to_o the_o number_n of_o city_n or_o town_n on_o every_o â—igh_a hill_n under_o every_o green_a tree_n do_v they_o not_o withal_o speak_v simple_o against_o all_o idolatry_n but_o calvin_n as_o the_o rejoynder_n add_v allow_v in_o some_o case_n the_o mixture_n of_o a_o like_a water_n with_o wine_n in_o the_o lord_n supper_n what_o for_o a_o religion_n ceremony_n show_v the_o place_n and_o after_o that_o see_v how_o it_o can_v be_v justify_v against_o those_o accusation_n which_o the_o rejoynder_n lay_v upon_o sop_v the_o bread_n in_o wine_n pag._n 61.62.63_o calvin_n as_o he_o last_o add_v epist_n 120._o can_v have_v wish_v that_o hooper_n have_v not_o so_o much_o struggle_v against_o the_o cap_n and_o rochet_n or_o surplice_n but_o beside_o that_o calvin_n do_v not_o nor_o we_o neither_o esteem_v a_o cap_n or_o a_o rochet_n either_o a_o surplice_n be_v add_v by_o the_o rejoynder_n so_o evil_a as_o the_o cross_n in_o baptism_n calvin_n can_v not_o say_v so_o much_o without_o a_o shrew_v item_n ut_fw-la illa_fw-la etiam_fw-la non_fw-la probem_fw-la though_o i_o do_v not_o allow_v of_o such_o thing_n which_o manifest_o declare_v that_o his_o wish_n be_v not_o ground_v on_o such_o a_o opinion_n as_o the_o def._n and_o rejoynder_n maintain_v it_o may_v also_o be_v add_v that_o calvin_n in_o the_o same_o place_n accuse_v they_o of_o wicked_a perfidiousness_n who_o though_o they_o seem_v to_o favour_v the_o gospel_n yet_o make_v a_o party_n against_o hooper_n about_o that_o trash_n unto_o the_o hinder_v of_o his_o ministry_n which_o be_v the_o case_n of_o all_o our_o deprâ—ving_a and_o silence_v prelate_n 5._o the_o second_o witness_n produce_v by_o the_o def._n for_o to_o be_v answer_v be_v chemnitius_n to_o who_o condemn_v of_o all_o worship_n institude_v without_o the_o word_n the_o def._n answer_v by_o his_o wedge_n say_v that_o he_o mean_v only_o that_o which_o be_v make_v essential_a worship_n not_o accidental_a concern_v this_o distinction_n enough_o have_v be_v say_v in_o the_o 5._o and_o 6._o staple_n sect_n of_o the_o manudiction_n let_v this_o only_o be_v remember_v that_o it_o be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o he_o shall_v divide_v worship_n into_o worship_n and_o no_o worship_n for_o both_o def._n and_o rejoynder_n often_o say_v accidental_a worship_n be_v no_o worship_n they_o add_v some_o time_n for_o explication_n that_o it_o be_v no_o essential_a worship_n but_o so_o they_o may_v say_v essential_a worship_n be_v no_o worship_n and_o then_o add_v that_o they_o mean_v no_o accidental_a worship_n the_o repl._n therefore_o just_o require_v that_o shall_v be_v show_v if_o chemnitius_n distinguish_v will-worship_n as_o he_o do_v into_o lawful_a and_o unlawful_a upon_o this_o occasion_n the_o rejoynder_n 1._o criethout_n of_o a_o falsehood_n shameful_a and_o to_o be_v blush_v at_o for_o say_v that_o the_o def._n distinguish_v will-worship_n into_o lawful_a and_o unlawful_a but_o let_v any_o man_n judge_v where_o be_v the_o falsehood_n shame_n and_o cause_n of_o blush_v the_o question_n be_v of_o worship_n invent_v by_o man_n which_o chemnitius_n with_o other_o divine_n call_v will-worship_n whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a or_o no_o the_o def._n answer_v by_o a_o distinction_n that_o some_o be_v unlawful_a as_o essential_a and_o some_o lawful_a as_o accidental_a what_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a but_o say_v the_o rejoynder_n accidental_a worship_n be_v deni_v to_o be_v proper_o worship_n and_o therefore_o deni_v it_o to_o be_v will_v worship_v unless_o it_o be_v imagine_v essential_a what_o a_o consequence_n be_v this_o to_o bear_v up_o so_o weighty_a a_o accusation_n it_o be_v not_o proper_o worship_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o will-worship_n he_o may_v as_o well_o say_v it_o be_v not_o proper_o worship_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a worship_n may_v it_o not_o be_v improper_a will-worship_n though_o it_o be_v not_o proper_o worship_n or_o no_o improper_a worship_n come_v mere_o from_o the_o will_n of_o man_n it_o be_v rather_o a_o property_n of_o ceremony_n to_o depend_v mere_o on_o the_o will_n of_o the_o institutor_n so_o tostatus_n in_o exod._n tom_fw-mi 1.148_o et_fw-fr in_o levit._fw-la pag._n 585._o a_o ceremony_n be_v a_o certain_a observation_n or_o a_o special_a mauner_n of_o worship_v god_n determine_v out_o of_o the_o sole_a commandment_n of_o of_o the_o lawgiver_n legislatoris_fw-la ceremonia_fw-la est_fw-la observatio_fw-la quaedam_fw-la vel_fw-la modus_fw-la specialis_fw-la colendi_fw-la deum_fw-la determinatus_fw-la ex_fw-la solo_fw-la mandato_fw-la legislatoris_fw-la his_o second_o exception_n be_v frivolous_a his_o three_o be_v this_o chemnitius_n have_v this_o distinction_n in_o substance_n though_o not_o in_o term_n for_o he_o say_v that_o right_a inward_a worship_n be_v suppose_v right_a external_a expression_n will_v follow_v of_o their_o own_o accord_n and_o they_o be_v external_a worship_n though_o not_o acceptable_a in_o themselves_o where_o 1._o mark_v the_o partiality_n of_o the_o rejoynder_n in_o the_o former_a answer_n he_o require_v the_o repl._n to_o show_v the_o distinction_n which_o he_o attribute_v to_o the_o def._n in_o his_o word_n or_o term_n otherwise_o he_o may_v blush_v for_o shame_n now_o when_o he_o be_v urge_v to_o show_v his_o distinction_n out_o of_o chemnitius_n he_o forsake_v word_n or_o term_n and_o fly_v to_o substance_n without_o once_o think_v of_o shame_n and_o blush_v 2._o this_o substance_n be_v a_o mere_a shadow_n for_o first_o chemnitius_n acknowlege_v no_o outward_a expression_n to_o be_v right_a worship_n but_o only_o those_o that_o flow_v of_o their_o own_o accord_n without_o any_o institution_n from_o inward_a worship_n and_o who_o will_v say_v that_o the_o def._n and_o rejoynder_n their_o accidental_a worship_n of_o cross_n and_o surplice_n do_v so_o flow_v from_o internal_a second_o those_o external_a expression_n be_v as_o essential_a to_o external_a worship_n as_o profession_n of_o faith_n be_v to_o a_o visible_a church_n nay_o there_o be_v no_o external_a worship_n beside_o the_o expression_n and_o set_v forth_o of_o the_o internal_a three_o though_o those_o expression_n be_v not_o acceptable_a of_o or_o in_o themselves_o be_v separate_v from_o the_o internal_a yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v from_o thence_o that_o they_o be_v in_o their_o nature_n accidental_a worship_n and_o no_o way_n substantial_a for_o the_o rejoynder_n confess_v that_o all_o god_n ordinance_n be_v substantial_a worship_n and_o yet_o he_o will_v not_o say_v that_o god_n outward_a ordinance_n be_v acceptable_a unto_o he_o when_o they_o be_v separate_v from_o internal_a worship_n upon_o supposition_n which_o now_o appear_v true_a that_o the_o def._n can_v not_o show_v his_o distinction_n out_o of_o chemnitius_n he_o be_v desire_v at_o the_o least_o to_o show_v that_o there_o be_v some_o worship_n which_o be_v not_o necessary_a because_o otherwise_o he_o must_v needs_o sink_v under_o chennitius_n his_o charge_n to_o this_o the_o rejonder_n answer_v 1._o that_o chemnitius_n understand_v by_o will_n worship_n whatsoever_o of_o man_n device_n be_v imagine_v necessary_a 2._o that_o there_o be_v some_o external_a worship_n which_o be_v not_o in_o the_o particularity_n of_o it_o necessary_a for_o the_o first_o of_o which_o enough_o be_v say_v in_o the_o 7._o s._n of_o the_o manud_a yet_o here_o i_o may_v add_v that_o it_o be_v so_o far_o from_o truth_n no_o will-worship_n can_v be_v without_o imagination_n of_o necessity_n that_o on_o the_o contrary_a whosoever_o do_v take_v upon_o he_o for_o his_o will_n sake_n profess_o to_o apoynt_v any_o worship_n can_v possible_o imagine_v it_o absolute_o necessary_a but_o acknowlege_v there_o have_v be_v worship_n without_o his_o addition_n he_o profess_v to_o add_v something_o not_o simple_o necessary_a to_o the_o be_v but_o only_o to_o the_o better_a be_v of_o it_o as_o for_o the_o second_o in_o god_n own_o ordinance_n which_o be_v substantial_a and_o essential_a by_o the_o rejoynder_n his_o confession_n
the_o rejoynder_n answer_v that_o sop_n of_o bread_n in_o wine_n be_v worse_a than_o the_o crosse._n 1._o because_o the_o cross_n make_v no_o alteration_n of_o what_o christ_n do_v ordain_v say_v do_v this_o 2._o it_o be_v not_o substitute_v in_o the_o place_n of_o baptism_n as_o sop_n in_o wine_n be_v by_o those_o haerteike_n in_o place_n of_o the_o supper_n 3._o it_o be_v not_o esteem_v a_o instrumental_a sign_n of_o any_o grace_n give_v by_o the_o use_n of_o it_o as_o they_o take_v their_o sop_n to_o be_v 4._o their_o sopping_a destroy_v the_o very_a sacrament_n and_o for_o these_o difference_n the_o repl._n be_v bid_v to_o hang_v down_o his_o head_n for_o ask_v such_o a_o quaestion_n but_o 1._o addition_n be_v as_o evil_a as_o alteration_n for_o when_o christ_n say_v do_v this_o he_o mean_v as_o well_o do_v this_o only_a as_o do_v this_o all_o fac_n hoc_fw-la totum_fw-la fac_fw-la hoc_fw-la tantum_fw-la as_o zanchie_a expound_v it_o addition_n also_o be_v some_o alteration_n if_o not_o of_o the_o thing_n institute_v yet_o of_o the_o institution_n as_o make_v it_o unsufficient_a or_o incomplete_a by_o itself_o alone_o 2._o sop_n and_o wine_n be_v not_o substitute_v in_o place_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n but_o be_v bread_n and_o wine_n neither_o be_v they_o first_o or_o only_o or_o for_o any_o thing_n appear_v at_o all_o use_v by_o heretic_n as_o the_o rejoinder_n for_o his_o advantage_n without_o ground_n avouch_v but_o by_o ancient_a church_n at_o least_o in_o some_o case_n as_o be_v manifest_a out_o of_o prosper_n de_fw-fr promissionibus_fw-la dimidium_fw-la temporis_fw-la cap._n 6._o puella_fw-la particulam_fw-la corporis_fw-la domini_fw-la intinctam_fw-la percepit_fw-la etc_n sopping_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o heresy_n that_o as_o it_o seem_v it_o be_v receyve_v among_o the_o father_n so_o long_o as_o infant_n communicate_v in_o the_o lord_n supper_n which_o be_v as_o d._n morton_n confess_v appeal_v lib._n 2._o cap._n 13._o sect_n 3._o for_o six_o hundred_o year_n 3._o sop_v of_o bread_n in_o wine_n consider_v abstract_o from_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v no_o sign_n institute_v as_o a_o instrument_n of_o grace_n for_o so_o say_v cassander_n pag._n 1027._o out_o of_o ivo_n this_o custom_n of_o sop_v prevail_v only_o through_o fear_n of_o shed_v and_o not_o by_o direct_a authority_n 4._o it_o be_v too_o severe_a a_o sentence_n effusionis_fw-la invaluit_fw-la hac_fw-la intingendi_fw-la consuâ—tudo_fw-la non_fw-la autâ—ritate_fw-la sid_n timore_fw-la effusionis_fw-la against_o those_o ancient_a christian_n in_o prosper_v time_n and_o which_o be_v more_o as_o cassander_n and_o hospinian_n judge_n in_o cyprian_n that_o they_o destroy_v the_o very_a substance_n of_o sacrament_n the_o set_v forth_o of_o christ_n death_n be_v not_o exclude_v though_o some_o part_n of_o the_o blood_n be_v representative_o join_v unto_o the_o body_n a_o man_n be_v dead_a that_o lie_v in_o his_o blood_n though_o some_o of_o it_o soak_v again_o into_o his_o body_n the_o father_n six_o hundred_o year_n together_o do_v not_o destroy_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o sacrament_n hitherto_o therefore_o appear_v no_o cause_n for_o the_o repl._n to_o hang_v down_o his_o head_n let_v we_o see_v if_o more_o cause_n be_v in_o the_o comparison_n he_o make_v betwixt_o sop_v and_o cross_v the_o first_o be_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n the_o only_a thing_n use_v in_o sop_v be_v ordain_v by_o christ_n so_o be_v not_o the_o crosse._n the_o rejoynder_n answer_v here_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n save_v only_o that_o they_o be_v ordain_v to_o be_v use_v apart_o from_o whence_o it_o follow_v only_o that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o use_v they_o not_o apart_o and_o so_o it_o follow_v that_o baptism_n must_v as_o well_o be_v use_v apart_o orseparate_v from_o the_o cross_n because_o it_o be_v ordain_v so_o to_o be_v use_v and_o the_o cross_n be_v not_o ordain_v for_o any_o religious_a use_n either_o apart_o or_o with_o other_o thing_n the_o second_o be_v that_o sop_v have_v some_o agreement_n with_o reason_n crossing_n have_v none_o the_o rejoynder_n hence_o make_v two_o consequence_n 1._o ergo_fw-la christ_n in_o ordain_v the_o sacrament_n otherwise_o have_v do_z some_o thing_n not_o agreeable_a to_o reason_n 2._o ergo_fw-la the_o church_n in_o crossing_n have_v be_v void_a of_o all_o reason_n fifteme_v hundred_o year_n and_o upon_o these_o ground_n he_o cry_v out_o of_o madness_n but_o so_o madness_n may_v be_v find_v in_o any_o assertion_n if_o it_o be_v first_o put_v out_o of_o the_o right_a wit_n or_o sense_n as_o this_o be_v for_o the_o meaning_n be_v not_o that_o sop_v be_v agreeable_a to_o right_a reason_n in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o in_o civil_a use_n where_o the_o aerial_a cross_n have_v none_o yet_o it_o may_v be_v add_v if_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o man_n to_o add_v to_o god_n ordinance_n in_o the_o sacrament_n than_o there_o will_v be_v find_v more_o probability_n of_o reason_n to_o bring_v in_o sop_v into_o the_o use_n of_o bread_n &_o wine_n as_o a_o manner_n of_o food_n them_z a_o mystical_a aereall_a cross_n into_o the_o use_n of_o water_n which_o be_v no_o manner_n of_o wash_v as_o for_o the_o church_n it_o have_v not_o universal_o use_v the_o cross_n so_o long_o except_o the_o waldenses_n and_o other_o like_v unto_o they_o be_v none_o of_o the_o church_n the_o same_o church_n that_o use_v cross_v use_v also_o for_o divers_a hundred_o of_o year_n to_o give_v the_o sacrament_n of_o of_o the_o supper_n unto_o infant_n without_o reason_n and_o the_o continuation_n of_o the_o cross_n more_o hundred_o of_o year_n add_v no_o reason_n unto_o it_o except_o reason_n in_o such_o thing_n do_v increase_v with_o their_o age_n many_o thing_n have_v be_v use_v in_o the_o church_n without_o reason_n or_o else_o there_o be_v reason_n we_o shall_v still_o use_v all_o that_o have_v be_v use_v caeteris_fw-la paribus_fw-la if_o there_o be_v any_o good_a reason_n in_o the_o cross_n let_v that_o be_v try_v by_o reason_n and_o not_o by_o slippery_a conjecture_n take_v from_o the_o person_n use_v it_o the_o three_o comparison_n be_v that_o sop_v be_v use_v by_o christ_n at_o the_o very_a table_n of_o the_o supper_n but_o cross_v be_v never_o so_o much_o honour_v by_o he_o or_o his_o apostle_n as_o to_o use_v it_o at_o any_o time_n the_o rejoynder_n answer_v that_o this_o argument_n will_v prove_v as_o well_o that_o the_o eat_n of_o a_o paschall_n lamb_n before_o the_o sacrament_n to_o be_v better_a than_o sprinkle_v of_o water_n on_o the_o forehead_n of_o the_o baptise_a because_o christ_n do_v that_o and_o not_o this_o but_o this_o be_v not_o so_o well_o for_o that_o 1._o sprinkle_v of_o water_n be_v no_o institute_v ceremony_n distinct_a from_o that_o wash_n which_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n use_v 2._o it_o be_v very_o probable_a that_o the_o apostle_n go_v into_o the_o cold_a part_n of_o the_o world_n do_v use_v sprinkle_v 3._o concern_v a_o paschall_n lamb_n use_v before_o the_o sacrament_n as_o a_o ceremony_n moral_o significant_a and_o reductive_o sacramental_a i_o see_v not_o why_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v praefer_v before_o the_o cross_n or_o any_o such_o invention_n even_o because_o christ_n do_v use_v it_o if_o that_o circumcision_n be_v now_o a_o lawful_a christian_a ceremony_n as_o the_o def._n and_o rejoynder_n profess_v and_o maintain_v pag._n 285._o it_o be_v also_o credible_o report_v a_o great_a bishop_n not_o long_o since_o live_v that_o every_o easter_n day_n he_o use_v to_o have_v a_o whole_a lamb_n praepare_v after_o the_o pascall_n manner_n bring_v to_o his_o table_n d._n b._n know_v well_o who_o it_o be_v and_o of_o who_o he_o have_v hear_v it_o the_o four_o comparison_n be_v that_o sop_v be_v no_o new_a sign_n but_o cross_v be_v the_o rejoynder_n oppose_v that_o it_o have_v be_v a_o abomination_n to_o eat_v the_o pascall_n lamb_n sodden_a but_o the_o addition_n of_o sit_v or_o lean_v on_o couch_n though_o a_o new_a sign_n add_v by_o themselves_o be_v lawful_a etc_o of_o which_o speech_n the_o first_o part_n be_v grant_v viz._n a_o sodden_a lamb_n have_v be_v a_o abomination_n neither_o isa_n sop_v communion_n excuse_v in_o the_o second_o there_o be_v observable_a partiality_n in_o that_o he_o call_v set_v a_o addition_n to_o the_o passeover_n and_o yet_o in_o the_o same_o answer_n with_o the_o same_o breath_n deni_v the_o cross_n to_o be_v any_o addition_n unto_o baptism_n the_o ground_n of_o all_o be_v rot_v viz._n that_o sit_v be_v a_o religious_a significant_a ceremony_n institute_v by_o man_n these_o thing_n consider_v let_v any_o man_n judge_v what_o cause_n the_o rejoynder_n have_v to_o talk_v in_o this_o place_n of_o the_o repl_n his_o roome-conscience_n contentious_a spirit_n smite_v with_o giddinisse_fw-la forsake_v of_o wisdom_n in_o that_o
divine_a by_o institution_n no_o man_n can_v conclude_v thus_o we_o must_v every_o where_o have_v some_o garment_n and_o therefore_o in_o england_n a_o surplice_n we_o must_v always_o in_o baptism_n have_v some_o admonition_n to_o profess_v the_o faith_n and_o therefore_o in_o england_n a_o crosse._n we_o must_v use_v reverend_a gesture_n in_o receive_v the_o holy_a communion_n and_o therefore_o in_o england_n we_o must_v kneel_v in_o the_o act_n of_o receive_v but_o we_o may_v conclude_v thus_o we_o must_v have_v a_o fit_a place_n to_o meet_v in_o and_o this_o place_n be_v general_o fit_a for_o our_o congregation_n therefore_o we_o must_v have_v this_o we_o must_v have_v a_o convenient_a time_n to_o meet_v in_o and_o this_o hour_n be_v general_o most_o convenient_a for_o our_o congregation_n therefore_o this_o the_o monk_n may_v as_o well_o conclude_v we_o must_v have_v some_o garment_n therefore_o we_o must_v in_o one_o order_n have_v black_a in_o another_o white_z in_o a_o three_o black_a over_o white_a or_o white_a over_o black_a in_o a_o four_o gray_a a_o five_o party_n colour_v in_o some_o all_o woollen_a in_o some_o all_o linen_n &c._n &c._n ad_fw-la infinitum_fw-la as_o well_o i_o say_v every_o whit_n as_o the_o rejoynder_n can_v conclude_v from_o a_o garment_n to_o a_o surplice_n from_o admonition_n to_o the_o sign_n of_o a_o cross_n or_o from_o reverence_n in_o a_o table-gesture_n to_o kneel_v to_o bellarmine_n the_o rejoynder_n answer_v that_o he_o speak_v of_o natural_a ceremony_n which_o be_v true_a but_o be_v not_o these_o contain_v under_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o defendant_n his_o word_n there_o be_v no_o gesture_n or_o circumstance_n of_o worship_n which_o have_v not_o be_v abuse_v and_o as_o for_o other_o circumstance_n which_o be_v call_v civil_a many_o of_o they_o admit_v only_o of_o such_o variety_n as_o nature_n do_v lead_v unto_o by_o occasion_n of_o this_o or_o that_o determination_n common_a to_o religion_n with_o other_o affair_n 9_o that_o our_o ceremony_n be_v not_o individual_o or_o singular_o the_o same_o which_o papist_n have_v solemn_o abuse_v the_o reply_o say_v it_o be_v no_o marvel_n because_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o carry_v the_o same_o particular_a sign_n of_o the_o cross_n from_o the_o fonte_fw-la to_o the_o church_n door_n or_o to_o keep_v it_o be_v so_o long_o as_o it_o be_v in_o make_v that_o be_v therefore_o no_o great_a mystery_n the_o rejoynder_n answer_v nothing_o to_o this_o save_v only_o that_o he_o descant_v upon_o the_o term_n mystery_n 10._o it_o be_v add_v as_o a_o overplus_n not_o for_o necessity_n of_o the_o argument_n that_o as_o it_o seem_v papist_n do_v give_v divine_a honour_n unto_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n as_o it_o be_v use_v among_o we_o because_o they_o ascribe_v divine_a operation_n unâ—o_v it_o as_o it_o be_v use_v by_o jew_n heathen_n and_o julian_n the_o apostata_fw-la bell_n the_o effect_n sacram._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 31._o and_o they_o do_v not_o account_v we_o worse_o than_o they_o the_o rejoynder_n oppose_v 1._o that_o the_o papist_n honour_v not_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o our_o hand_n the_o difference_n be_v that_o unto_o that_o sacrament_n they_o require_v a_o right-ordained_n priest_n but_o not_o so_o to_o the_o crosse._n 2._o he_o answer_v that_o they_o ascribe_v this_o divine_a operation_n unto_o it_o only_o when_o there_o be_v a_o intention_n of_o such_o a_o operation_n in_o he_o that_o make_v the_o crosse._n be_v it_o so_o the_o patroness_n of_o our_o cross_n defend_v that_o use_n which_o the_o cross_n have_v among_o the_o father_n who_o allow_v that_o intention_n as_o bellarmine_n in_o the_o place_n now_o cite_v show_v and_o how_o shall_v the_o inward_a intention_n of_o they_o be_v discern_v this_o at_o the_o least_o seem_v to_o follow_v that_o as_o for_o uncertainty_n of_o the_o priest_n intention_n divers_a papist_n worship_v the_o host_n only_o upon_o condition_n if_o it_o be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n by_o the_o priest_n intention_n so_o they_o must_v ascribe_v divine_a honour_n unto_o our_o cross_n upon_o the_o like_a condition_n of_o such_o a_o intention_n as_o be_v in_o the_o father_n 11._o about_o material_a formal_a sameness_n the_o replier_n refuse_v to_o dispute_v that_o be_v say_v the_o rejoynder_n because_o if_o he_o have_v he_o must_v either_o have_v oppose_v all_o learning_n and_o common_a sense_n or_o else_o have_v yield_v to_o the_o defendant_n that_o change_n of_o essential_a form_n make_v the_o same_o material_a to_o become_v another_o thing_n as_o in_o the_o change_n of_o water_n into_o wine_n but_o 1._o with_o consent_n of_o all_o common_a sense_n we_o may_v say_v that_o our_o cross_n differ_v not_o so_o from_o the_o popish_a cross_n as_o the_o wine_n do_v from_o water_n joh._n 2._o 2._o it_o be_v no_o opposition_n to_o all_o learning_n whatsoever_o aristole_n teach_v if_o one_o shall_v say_v that_o not_o the_o form_n only_o but_o also_o the_o matter_n be_v in_o a_o great_a part_n change_v when_o water_n be_v turn_v into_o wine_n 3._o opinion_n and_o intention_n be_v not_o the_o essential_a form_n of_o a_o ceremonial_a crosse._n for_o one_o and_o the_o same_o ceremonial_a cross_n be_v use_v by_o papist_n to_o divers_a intention_n as_o to_o represent_v a_o mystery_n to_o cure_v disease_n to_o drive_v away_o devil_n etc._n etc._n bellarmine_n in_o the_o forecited_n place_n and_o opinion_n belong_v to_o the_o efficient_a or_o make_v cause_n not_o to_o the_o form_n 4._o the_o very_a make_n of_o a_o cross_n in_o such_o a_o manner_n or_o with_o such_o circumstance_n as_o put_v upon_o it_o a_o relation_n to_o religion_n make_v both_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o that_o ceremony_n and_o so_o after_o idolatrous_o abuse_v carry_v with_o it_o at_o least_o a_o show_n of_o a_o idolatrous_a ceremony_n but_o this_o show_v the_o rej._n refer_v unto_o the_o five_o chapter_n and_o here_o oppose_v only_o that_o likeness_n and_o sameness_n be_v not_o one_o which_o be_v true_a of_o individual_a or_o singular_a sameness_n not_o otherwise_o for_o those_o thing_n be_v like_o which_o have_v one_o and_o the_o same_o quality_n but_o he_o himself_o will_v not_o say_v that_o only_o the_o same_o individual_a or_o particular_a ceremony_n which_o idolater_n abuse_v be_v forbid_v to_o we_o he_o have_v hitherto_o in_o all_o this_o section_n decline_v the_o defence_n of_o that_o absurdity_n this_o quidity_n therefore_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n 12._o it_o be_v add_v by_o the_o reply_o that_o we_o have_v no_o intention_n or_o opinion_n in_o the_o use_n of_o the_o cross_n but_o the_o papist_n have_v the_o same_o though_o they_o have_v other_o more_o and_o therefore_o there_o be_v some_o formal_a sameness_n in_o their_o cross_n and_o we_o to_o this_o the_o rejoynd_a in_o many_o word_n answer_v nothing_o but_o that_o this_o reply_n stifle_v itself_o because_o if_o we_o have_v not_o all_o the_o same_o opinion_n which_o they_o have_v than_o they_o have_v not_o the_o same_o with_o we_o but_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v of_o positive_a opinion_n concern_v the_o cross_n itself_o for_o we_o may_v want_v some_o of_o their_o opinion_n and_o yet_o they_o have_v all_o that_o we_o have_v the_o same_o do_v not_o he_o that_o know_v most_o of_o this_o or_o that_o know_v the_o same_o thing_n with_o he_o that_o know_v little_a though_o he_o know_v more_o 13._o another_o odd_a reason_n be_v frame_v by_o the_o repl._n thus_o if_o this_o do_v make_v a_o ceremony_n not_o the_o same_o that_o man_n have_v not_o altogether_o the_o same_o opinion_n of_o it_o then_o among_o the_o papist_n there_o be_v as_o many_o kind_n of_o ceremony_n cross_n surplice_n as_o there_o be_v diversity_n of_o opinion_n about_o their_o nature_n and_o use_n which_o no_o man_n will_v say_v yes_o say_v the_o the_o rejoynder_n i_o will_v say_v it_o of_o ceremony_n and_o he_o that_o shall_v deny_v this_o must_v lay_v aside_o both_o learning_n and_o conscience_n not_o know_v what_o to_o say_v but_o he_o be_v too_o too_o confident_a upon_o the_o ground_n which_o he_o be_v drive_v to_o by_o force_n of_o a_o contrary_a wind_n for_o without_o lay_v aside_o of_o learning_n and_o conscience_n we_o may_v thus_o argue_v if_o this_o be_v so_o than_o all_o human_a ceremony_n use_v among_o the_o papist_n and_o bring_v in_o as_o hitherto_o all_o have_v use_v to_o speak_v by_o pope_n be_v not_o popish_a for_o they_o may_v be_v this_o or_o that_o hedge-priest_n ceremony_n who_o have_v add_v his_o opinion_n and_o institution_n unto_o they_o 2._o the_o pope_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n can_v know_v when_o his_o ceremony_n arâ—_n observe_v or_o omit_v because_o he_o can_v know_v all_o opinion_n and_o intention_n of_o man_n and_o the_o like_a reason_n hold_v with_o we_o our_o church_n must_v inquire_v into_o the_o opinion_n and_o intention_n