Selected quad for the lemma: water_n
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A14057
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A new dialogue vvherin is conteyned the examinatio[n] of the messe and of that kynde of priesthode, whych is ordeined to saye messe: and to offer vp for remyssyon of synne, the body and bloud of Christe agayne.
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Turner, William, d. 1568.
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1548
(1548)
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STC 24363; ESTC S108032
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34,102
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104
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to almyghty god that we shal haue no vprores at all Where as ye would haue the matter deuolued vnto some spirituall iudge thynkynge that I am not able to iudge of thys mater for lacke of knowlege and learnyng in matters of religion I would not that ye should reken me to be vnlearned in Goddes law because I am no Bishop as though only bishoppes and prelates were spirituall men and none elles Qui non habet spiritum dei hic non est eius He that hath not the spirite of God he is not hys But all true Christen men haue the spirite of God then are al Christen men spiritual meÌ„ TheÌ„ must ye eyther take me for no Christen man or elles graunt that I am a spiritual iuge As for my knowelege in the holy scripture thoughe many of my predecessors haue bene to theyr greate shame shamefully ignorauÌ„t in the scripture I would ye should knowe that I haue bene brought vp in humanitie Logike and diuinitie â—n the vniuersite of Cambryge tyll I was .xxii. yeres olde and that seÌ„ce that tyme though the coÌ„mon law hath ben my chefe study I haue diligently read the scriptures from the begynnyng to the ende wherby thankes be vnto the Lorde thus muche knowlege haue I gotten that I can discerne true religiâ—n from superstytyon and knowe my â—hepherdes voyce from a straungers Thys saiyng of Dauid Et nunc reges intelligite crudimini iudices terre Get you vnderstandyng ye kynges and be you learned ye iudges of the earth This senteÌ„ce made me reade the scriptures sence I was a iudge more hedefully and attentely then euer I dyd before Therfore ye shall not nede to haue the matter deuolued vnto an other iudge Now yf ye haue any thynge agaynste this woman speake and ye shal haue audience Knouuleg holde ye your opinion styll that ye are ordeyned of allmyghty god and I pray you in what place of the Bible dyd God order you mastres missa Porphir Christ ordined the blessed messe in the .xxvi. of Math. the .xiiii of Marke the .xxii. of Luke and in the .xi. of the former epistel to the Corinthians knouulege there is no mention of the messe in any of these places Porphiry What maketh mater whether the name be ther or no yf the thing be there We ought rather to seke for the thynge it selfe alwayes more then for the name of it knouulege How do men discerne and knowe thynges but by theyr names then seynge that ther is no meÌ„tioÌ„ made of the messe in these places rehersed howe shall we knowe that Christe ordeyned the messe there â–ª Porphiry ye shall knowe that Christâ— ordeyned the Messe by Christes wordes wherwyth he ordeyned that thynge that we call the messe knowlege Reherse the wordes I pray you wherwyth Christe institued the messe Porphyry these they be Dominus Iesus in â—a nocte qua traditus est etc. The Lorde Iesus in the ntght that he was betrayed toke breade and after that he had gyuen thaÌ„kes he brake it and sayd Take eate thys is my bodye whyche is broken for you doo this in the remembrauÌ„ce of me After the same maner to â—ehe the cup after the supper was don and sayd This cup is the new testameÌ„t in my bloude doo ye thys as oft as ye shall drynke in the remembraunce of me By these wordes dyd Christe instytute and ordeyne the Messe knouulege And wyth the same wordes he instituted the Lordes suppe then is the Messe and the Lordes supper all one thynge Porphyry They are all one thynge in verye dede therfore they that rayle agaynste the blessed Messe rayll also agaynste the supper of our Lorde Knouuleg Yf the Messe and the supper of the Lorde be all one thyng the ryghtes the housell the sacrament of Christes body and bloud and the supper of the Lorde are al one thynge then the messe the housell the rightes the sacrameÌ„t of Christes body and bloude and the supper of the Lorde ar all one thyng Wherof it foloweth that whosoeuer may celebrate or do any of these may also celebrate or doo all the rest But all the lay men in Englande may celebrate the supper of the Lord and may receiue theyr ryghtes or housell as well as preistes therfore they may all celebrate or do messe as well as preistes may Yf the supper of the Lord or houstyng and the messe be all one thyng whatsoeuer then belongeth vnto the one belongethe also vnto the other and what soeuer is requyred to the celebratynge of the one is also requyred to the celebratyng of the other But a shauen croune a preiâ—â—es goun an albe a stole a vestiment confiteor misereatur collectes sequeÌ„ces secretes canon memento eleuatioÌ„ of the sacramente remembraunce of â—ayntes departed offering vp of christ for remissyon of synnes breakynge of breade in .iii partes one for them that ar in Purgatory an other for theÌ„ that are in heauen the thyrde for them that are alyue washynge of a mannes fyngers myxynge of water and wyne togyther ar necessarily requyred of him â—hat shall saye messe then yf it be true that ye say that the messe and Christes supper whych the common people cal theyr housell or ryghtes are all one â—hyng then is it requyred that all meÌ„ whych shall celebrate the Lordes supper or receyue theyr howsel must haue shaueÌ„ crounes prestes gownes albes stoles and vestimentes vpoÌ„ theyr backes they must say secretes and sequeÌ„ces collectes canoÌ„ they must breake the hooste in .iii. partes and offer vp of freashe Christes body for remissyoÌ„ of synne wyth all the other superstitions toyes and bables aboue rehersed But these ar not requyred of hym that shal celebrate the supper of the Lorde and yet are requyred of him that shall celebrate messe it foloweth therfore that the supper of Christ and the messâ— are not all one More ouer yf the supper of the Lorde and the messe were al one when as a lay man maye as welâ— receyue the supper of the Lorde for 〈◊〉 preist as a preist can do for a lay man then might a layman as wel say messâ— for a preiste as a preist can do for a laâ— maÌ„ But I do not doubt but ye thinkâ— that to be an incoÌ„uenience and coÌ„trarâ— to your ofte commended order then â— it not conueniente that the supper oâ— Christe and the messe shoulde be rekâ—ned all one Philargyrus Me thynk that ye spake of late wonderous vâ— discretly and vnreuerently and otheâ— wyse theÌ„ it becommed a Christen maâ— to doo where as ye called the holy vâ— stimentes whyche the preiste weare◠〈◊〉 the honoure of Christe who is present at the messe superstitious toyes and bables seyng that they were consecrated to holy vses by holy prayers â—nd by the inuocatioÌ„ of goddes name When ye go to speake with a great maÌ„â—â—o ye not wel to put on the best clothes â—hat ye haue shall a preiste then doo â—â—misse when he putteth on better cloâ—hes theÌ„ the coÌ„mon people wereth