Selected quad for the lemma: water_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
water_n	bread_n	lord_n	wine_n	3,679	5	7.3104	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10753	A friendly caveat to Irelands Catholickes, concerning the daungerous dreame of Christs corporall (yet invisible) presence in the sacrament of the Lords Supper Grounded vpon a letter pretended to be sent by some well minded Catholickes: who doubted, and therefore desired satisfaction in certaine points of religion, with the aunswere and proofes of the Romane Catholicke priests, to satisfie and confirme them in the same. Perused and allowed for apostolicall and Catholicke, by the subscription of maister Henry Fitzsimon Iesuit, now prisoner in the Castle of Dublin. With a true, diligent, and charitable examination of the same prooffes: wherein the Catholickes may see this nevv Romane doctrine to bee neither apostolicall nor Catholicke, but cleane contarie to the old Romane religion, and therefore to bee shunned of all true auncient Romane Catholickes, vnlesse they vvill be new Romish heretickes. By Iohn Rider Deane of Saint Patrickes Dublin.	Rider, John, 1562-1632.	1602 (1602)	STC 21031; ESTC S102958	114,489	172

to be done some twentie yeares or thereabouts Actione quarta synodi 2. Ni●e●ae tom 3. before the second Councell of Niceu● as a preparatiue for the planting of images in Churches in which Councell it was accordinglie performed and this fable registred in the same as a sui● foundation for such a building and a fit proofe fo● such a proposition Now let the indifferent Reader peruse at his leisure but the seven chapters of this Treatise and hee shall scarce read one line without a lie Yet superstition blusht not to in sert this fable into this fathers worke But if we should render such proofes and preach such fabulous stuffe for sound divinitie to the people you would call vs sots and soule slaiers But for Christes sake and the peoples salvation confesse your errour● and forsake them with these lying fables it is no shame to forsake sinne but it is daungerous when sinne forsakes you And so to your next proofe Catho Priests Damascen lib. 4 de fide orthod cap. 14. floruit 391. Let vs approach in ardent faith laying our hands in manner of a crosse and let vs receiue the bodie of him that vvas crucified YOu leaue out ei for it is in the father Acced●mus ei let vs come and approach to him which is in heaven Rider not on your Altar or in your miraculous accidents Damascen flatlie shevveth the impossibilitie of your carnall presence and then sheweth the maner how in ardent faith not with mouth teath and stomacke So this father is against your selfe for the manner of receiving of Christ which is spirituall not corporall And in the same chapter the same father saith Carpu● Christi c. that Christs bodie being vnited to the godhead descended not from heaven to the earth and therefore cannot be in your sacrament corporally and carnallie And as fire and heat be in a burning coale so and more neerelie are Christs humanitie and divinitie ioyned together so that he which shall touch the coale should taste of heat and hee that should eate Christs humanitie must also eate Christs divinitie which is damnable to thinke for a man to eate and devoure his God But because this your imp●rtinent proofe is your apparant disproofe I will proceed to the next Cath. Priests This bread is bread before the consecration but when it is consecrated of bread it is made the flesh of Christ Ambr. de sacrament●s lib 4 cap. 4. fl●ruit 40● ALl this we graunt to be true but you come not to the point whether Christs flesh be made of bread by way of transubstansiation that is by the changing of one nature or substance into another by hec est corpus meum this is our question Rider but you dare not touch it because you cannot prooue it But seeing you recite fathers by peeces and patches taking that you thinke will fit your purpose and leaving that which would crosse your course or weaken your cause I will for the trueth sake and the Catholickes good adde that out of Ambrose which I am sure some of you would wish out of Ambrose If you had read a few lines moe you should haue heard him tell you another ●ale In the same chapter and haue expounded himselfe in this place his words be these Si ergo tanta vis est in sermon● Domini Iesu vt inciperent esse qua non erant quanto magis operatorius est vt sint quae erant in liud commutentus If there be such a force in the word of the Lord Iesus that the things which were not began to bee how much more can it worke this that they shall be the same they were and yet bee changed into another thing And then bringeth in an example how a thing may be that that it was and yet be chaunged Tu ipse eras sed eras vetus creatura c. Thou t● selfe waste but thou wast an olde creature afte● when thou wast baptised thou begannest to be a ne● creature wilt thou know how a new creature eve● one saith the Apostle that is in Christ is a new cre●ture Learne then how the word of God is accust●med to change everie creature and when he will 〈◊〉 altereth the course of nature If you had read 〈◊〉 knowne this you would never haue alleadged the ●ther for his example is this as he that is baptised su●fereth no materiall substancial or corporall chang● though he be borne a new spirituallie Vide dist 2 de consecr cap. quia corpus page 432. and put o● Christ But he his changed not loosing or altrin● th● bodie or soule which hee had but in attaining th● grace which hee had not And so the change is acc●dentall not substantiall as from vice to vertue So 〈◊〉 substance the bread and wine are the same they we● before but in accident or qualitie they are turned l● to another thing of common bread made a Sacr●ment Chrisost ●n Math. hom 83. So Chrisostome amplifying the change of bread 〈◊〉 the Euchariste he addeth immediatlie withall Sic ●tium in baptisme even so there is the like change 〈◊〉 water in baptisme as of bread in the Lords Suppe● but that is not of substance but in qualitie respec● or vse and so in this Dialog 1. cap. 8. And this change is not in casting away the substanc● of bread or wine but in casting grace vnto them 〈◊〉 Theodoret saith Non naturam ipsam transmutans s● naturae adijciens gratiam not changing nature but ●●ding grace to nature Ambrose de sys qui Initiantr● cap. 9. But who can better expoud A●brose his meaning then Ambrose himselfe who sait● Ante benedictionem c. before the blessing of the he●venlie words it is called another kind after the wor● of consecration the bodie of Christ is signified do● not say is the bodie of Christ but signifieth the bod● of Christ And else where In comedendo potando c. 〈◊〉 eating and drinking we signifie the bodie bloud ●●at were offered for vs. And againe he saith Ambr. 1. cor 11. Quod 〈◊〉 figura Ambr. de Sacramentis lib. 4 cap. 4. c. which is a figure of the bodie and bloud of the Lord. But of this we haue sufficientlie spoken before And thus now the Reader may be sufficientlie satisfied that the change is not naturall but misticall not of substance but of accidents and qualities And so bread remaineth in substance but is changed in misterie And so is bread made the flesh of Christ not by your miraculous transubstansiation but by mistical and Apostolicall benediction or sanctification not in changing the nature of it but adding grace to it as beforesaid And thus Ambrose hath aunswered Ambrose And if you would read him without partiall affection hee would withdraw you from this your imagined opinion But now to that which followeth Catholicke Priests Not onelie the Sacrament but the bodie of Christ is propounded vnto vs

borne of the blessed virgin nor shed one drop of bloud for our sinnes therefore we renounce him as none of our Saviour It is straunge to see the difference of the old Church of Rome and this last giddiepated Church of Rome The last Church of Rome Pars 2. decret● aurei cans 1. Q. 1 page 119 ●enaemus fraires thinketh that Church to be no true Church vnlesse she worke miracles but I pray you heare olde Romes censure of new Romes opinion Praeter vnitatem qui facit miracula (a) Glossa Ibid nihil ad vitam aeternam nihil est in vnitate fuit populus Israel non faciebat miracula praeter vnitatem erant magi Pharaonis faciebant similia Moysi He that worketh miracles without the vnitie of the Church doth nothing the Israelits were in the vnitie of the Church and did no miracles the Magicians of Pharao were out of the Church yet did like things to Moyses Therefore true miracles such as Moyses wrought may be done by such as are not members of the true Church and so consequentlie miracles by olde Romes confession prooue neither anie such wherein they are workt to be the true Church nor the workers true members of the same And then it followeth Petrus Apostolus c. Peter the Apostle wrought miracles and so did Simon Magus manie things yet there were manie Christians that coulde not worke miracles as Peter did or as Simon did and notwithstanding reioyced that their names were written in heaven The olde Church of Roome taught vs to be assured of our saluation in this life Now for the Catholickes good let vs examine the faith of old Rome The children of Israell wrought no miracles yet the true Church Pharao his Inchaunt is workt miracles yet were the false church And that manie of Christs flocke that neither workt miracles as Peter did yet they reioice for that they were assured that their names are written in the booke of life And thus much for your owne Pope against your owne miracles And doth not your owne Doctor Lyra tell you plainlie that The nevv Church of Roome to doubt of our saluation in this life similiter fit aliquando in ecclesia manima deceptio populi in miraculis (b) fictis factis a sacerdotibus vel eis ad haerentibus propter lucrum temporale c. and so in like manner it commeth to passe that sometimes in the Church the people are often most shamefullie cousoned with fained and false miracles devised by the priests or their followers even for a temporall gaine (a) Vpon Dan. cap. 14. page 222. but Lyra printed ut Venice hath which shamefull shifts of cousoning and covetous priests Lyra wisheth to be severelie punished by the chiefe Prelats and to expell it and them out of the Church And your owne (c) Alex. de hales part 4. quast 53. member 4. Irrefragabilis Doctour for that is one of his titles recordeth more speciall iugling then this saying In sacramento apparet caro interdum humana procuratione interdum operatione diabolica In your very Sacrament of the Altar there appeareth flesh sometimes workt by the nimble conveiance of man sometimes by the working of the divell so that if there bee anie flesh in the Sacrament of the Altar whether visible or invisible it is either wrought through the priests legerdemaine or the divels cunning and craft Now Gentlemen you haue brought your miracles to a faire market I trust after a while the discreet Catholicks will not giue you a halfepennie for a hundred of them Tharasius the President of that ydolatrous Councell demaunded of all the learned in that Synode Nycen si● 1. Act. ● why their images then did not worke miracles Aunswere was made out of Gods booke that miracula non credentibus data sunt Miracles are onelie given to the vnbeleevers If you bee too busie with your fained miracles we will make a whole superstitious Synode yet to brand your Church and her children in the forehead for vnbeleefe Crysost Hom. 4● in math And that reverend Chrysostome saith per signa cognoscebatur qui essent veri christiani qui falsi Nunc autom signerum operatio omnino levata est magis autem invenitur apud cos qui falsi sunt christiani In old time it was knowne by miracles who were the true Christians and who were the false But now the working of miracles is taken away altogither and is rather found amongst those that bee false disguised Christians Note but two things out of Chrysostome First miracles are now quite taken away Next onely they remaine with false Christians in the false Church so if your Church will haue miracles by Chrisostomes censure she is a false Church and all in that Church be false Christians But if your miracles were true as all Gods and Christs miracles are then the change must be as well of the formes as of the substances When Moses rod was turned into a serpent Exod. 4.3 it was a serpent in deed Tho. 2.9.10 These prooue your miracles to be false and no likenesse of a rod remaining And so when Christ turned water into wine there was neither colour nor taste of water remaining so in all true miracles But you would haue in your Sacrament a change of the substance of bread yet the accidents as whitenesse roundnesse thinnesse taste and relish notwithstanding remaining which is impossible and not onelie contrarie to the word of God but also to the faith of those primitiue fathers And Augustine vrgeth this matter verie Evangelicallie August de civitate dei lib. 22. cap. 8. liue 3. 4. saying Quisquis ad huc prodigia vt credat inquirit magnum est ipsum prodigi●●● qui mundo credenta non credit Whosoever hee bee that yet requireth wonders and miracles to bring him to beleeue the truth is himselfe a wonderfull miracle that the world beleeving yet hee remaineth still in vnbeleefe And Augustine else where telleth you flatlie August de Trinitate lib. 3. cap. 10. that in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper there is no miracle read him and follow him And this is not to passe vntoucht that as your miracles are false in themselues so they are invented and done to a most wicked end which is to confirme your false doctrine of reall presence Purgatorie praying to Images and the like trash which are clean contrarie to Christs miracles for their end was twofold the first to confirme our faith in Christs divinitie and the other to assure our soules of salvation through his name Ioh. 20.30 31. These things are vvritten that yee might beleeue that Iesus is that Christ the Sonne of God and that in beleeving yee might haue life through his name Eusebius recounteth Catho Priests lib. 5. cap. 1. that in the persecution vnder Severe that it vvas a great accusation against Christians that they did eate mans flesh because they beleeved

that they did receiue the bodie of Christ GEntlemen Rider in that booke are fiue and twentie chapters and not one word of this matter in anie of those and againe you mistake the time for Severus then governed not If it were vnder Severus it should then be in the sixth booke where you shal finde fortie fiue chapters yet there also is not one word of this Yet if you marke this that you bring against vs if it were to be found in Eusebius it maketh nothing against vs for though the Pagans were as grosse in the matter of the Sacrament as Nicodemus was in the matter of regeneration it is neither miracle nor wonder but a thing too common now and then And for true Christians to eate Christes flesh spirituallie by faith is or ought to be no miracle in the Church but the practise of the Church But if you had read Eusebius your selfe diligentlie you should haue found that in the fifth booke and seventh chapter hee would haue tolde you that then miracles ceast were not in Gods Church and he produceth old Father Jraneus for confirmation of the same Ex lib. 2. Iranes cap 58. You bring in Eusebius to maintaine miracles and Eusebius himselfe denieth them This is your olde fashion to inforce the fathers to speake not what they would but what you please but read that place well and remember that Eusebius records that Church wherein miracles are wrought not to be Gods church and so by his opinion your Church of Rome must bee planted in the suburbs of Babylon not in Civitate Dei within the gates of Sion Catho Priests Amphil. Guitmundus in vita Basilij A Ievv present at masse vvhich Saint Basill did celebrate vvas converted by seeing a childe devided in the blessed Sacrament I Finde in Basill pag. 171. that he writ thirtie chapters ad sanctum Amphilochìum Iconij Episcopum but your Munkish Amphilochius I never saw Rider neither doe I care because he is a forger of false miracles and thus I prooue it The fabler saith the Iew saw a childe devided in the sacrament that could not be Christ for hee was a perfect man before his passion And if it were anie besides Christ or if it had been anie in Christ his likenesse it must be done as your owne Authour said a little before either by mans sleight or the divels illusion A lier hath need of a good memorie But to be briefe and yet plaine this must needes be a verie shamefull lie For how could Basill that lived about the yeare of our Lord 367. say your masse that was in hatching vp and patching togither at least foure hundred or fiue hundred yeares after his death as shall God willing bee prooved vnto you out of your owne bookes Tom. 6. Biblioth patrum in lib Guitmundi Archi● de veritate Euch. li. 2. pag. 405 in my next Treatise of the masse and so you feed the Catholickes with these lying legends instead of holie scriptures a As for Guitmundus he hath neither one word of Saint Basils life nor of your miracle yet hee hath some other thing as foolish and as vntrue or else he had not been made Archbishop for his paines wherein he greatlie serviced the Pope Cath. Pri. Amb. oratio 1. de obit Satyri Ambrose speaketh of a happie preservation of one from drovvning for devotion tovvards the same IN deed Ambrose Tom. 5. pag. 720. Rider writeth a treatise of the death of his brother Satyrus wherein he sheweth the great mercie of God alwaies towards his Church and children in preserving them from daunger and amongst the rest hee bringeth in an example of a great number of passengers that in a storme suffered shipwracke amongst whom there was one seeing the daunger desired of some fellow passenger So simple people foolishlie cary about them halli● bread Crosses Crucifixses aguus dies such tras● to giue him some part of the misticall bread for in those daies it was a superstitious custome wickedlie tollerated to carrie some part of the sacramentall bread about them which peece of bread when hee had inclosed fast in his garment he leapt over boord and did swimme safe a shore This now is your wonderfull miracle out of which let vs see what may be gathered The best note saith a learned writer is that he was a good swimmer But to overthrow your miracle I will alleadge Ambrose his owne words in that place First he calleth it but onlie fidei auxilium a helpe of his faith And if hee had thought it had beene Christ as you vntrulie teach hee would haue called it the Authour and finisher of his faith and therefore he tooke your Oste not to bee his maker as you teach nor his present preserver but a strengthening of his faith And that you may see it is true which I say afterwards he calleth it Divinum fidelium sacramentum the divine Sacrament of the faithfull And therefore he thought not as you doe that Christ was locallie in the sacrament And againe there was no miracle in this because other passengers that had not such misticall bread escaped safe to shore as well as he for if the having of that Host preserved him the lacke of the Host should haue drowned the rest If your hoste cannot doe the lesser much lesse the greater And it is verie straunge that the Catholicks being so wise men in all other matters should be so sotted in this as to thinke that a Wafercake consecrated by a Priest or Pope should preserue a man from drowning in water when it cannot preserue anie good fellow from being drunke with wine But to the rest as they follow Catho Priests lib 8. cap. 5. Sozomen recounteth hovv a vvoman not beleeving that Christ had transformed bread into his bodie was in danger by transformation of bread into a stone Rider SOme such thing there is but you misse Sozomens words sentences and purpose and applie it still to your Host The priest told Sozomen that in giving the Sacramentall bread to a woman shee tooke it in her hand and privilie gaue it her maide behinde her which the maid no sooner toucht with her tooth but it turned into a stone the print of the tooth is this day to be seen in Constantinople Beleeue it that l●st I pray you Gentlemen is this your Oste Christs bodie if it be as you teach but f●e it is a false lie thē were Christs bodie turned into a stone to be seen at Constantinople vnder the forms of a stone as wel as at Rome vnder the formes of bread O hellish divinitie Acts. 13.10 but I say vnto you Priests Iesuits as Paul said to that false Arch-Iesuit Bariesus O full of all subtiltie and mischiefe children of the divell and enemies of all righteousnesse vvill yee not cease yet to pervert the straight vvaies of the Lord but still like Elimas seeke to turne