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A00273 A dialogue or Familiar talke betwene two neighbours co[n]cernyng the chyefest ceremonyes, that were, by the mighti power of Gods most holie pure worde, suppressed in Englande, and nowe for vnworthines, set vp agayne by the bishoppes, the impes of Antichrist: right learned, profitable, and pleasaunt to be read, for the comfort of weake co[n]sciences in these troublous daies. Read first, and then iudge. 1554 (1554) STC 10383; ESTC S115543 27,807 78

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on the outwarde thinges we se so our soules are fed with the inward thinges we see not For the verye flesh of Christ is not eaten wyth our bodilye tethe nor his bloude dronke with our bodily mouthes or throtes but it is a sacramental eating done bi the soule minde not by the bodye or carnal instruments of the body Nicho. Howe can we eate but with our tethe or how can we drincke but wyth our throtes Oliu. You shal the better vnderstande thys misterye if you marke Christes dede when his holye sacrament was first instituted Christ him selfe satte at the table with his .xii. Apostles and taking the bread that stode before them euen such bread as they then vsuallye had to eate with the pascall lambe and gaue thanckes to hys heauenlye father and brake that bread and gaue it to them saying Take eate ye this is mi bodi whiche is broken for you They dyd take the bread and did eate as he commaunded them and they dyd drincke the cup that he delyuered them saying this is my bloude of the new testament which is shed for you Yet it was the next daye ere his bodye was broken and hys bloud shed vpon the crosse for vs and he sat whole amongst them at supper and him selfe did eate of that same bread which he called his body and dyd him selfe drink of that cuppe which he called his bloud therfore by faith they dyd receyue and eate his body drink his bloud They beleued that hys death and passion shoulde be for them and into remission for theyr sinnes as we now that Christ is ascended into heauen by faith doo eate his body broken and drincke his bloud shed although that he liueth sitteth on the right hand of his father But Christes veri naturall bodye is not toren with our teethe as the Capernites erroure thincketh nor yet his bloud dornk with our throtes mouthes But Nicholas haue you not a soule as wel as a bodye Nicho. Yes that I haue Oliue what maner of thing is your soule Nicho. By mi troth I can not tel Olyu I thinke Nicholas no more cā the greatest doctor of them al. And therfore because the soule is vnknowen vnto vs the scripture speaking of the soule those thinges that appertain vnto it vseth such wordes as we are aquainted with ascribeth those things vnto the soule that ar proper vnto the body So Dauid said My soule O Lorde thirsteth vnto the. And Christ saith Blessed are those that hunger and thurste for rightuousnes The harty desire of the soule is the hunger and thurst of the soule as the herty desire of meate and drincke is the hunger thurst of the bodi Therfore when a sinner feleth the burden of sinne vpon his conscience and the lacke of strength and power to do the wyl of God and is touched wyth gods spirit to be sory for this vnperfectnes and longeth fain to be deliuered this is the hunger of the soule This hunger is not satisfied tyl he heare the preaching of christes bodie broken for our sinnes that by his bloudshed our synnes ar forgiuen vs our infirmities healed we receiued into the grace and fauour of God But when we beleue this then is our hunger slaked and our thurst put away that is we feare no more dampnation but knowe that in Christ we haue our pardon Thus we eate Christ beleuing that his body was brokē for vs and that his blud was shed for our sinnes Nich. wherfore eat we the Sacrament than we maye do this by hearing the preaching Oliu. I am glad that thou askest me this question for it seemeth thou wouldest faine vnderstand something of this matter As to writinges men set to seales for a confyrmation of the same writinges so Christ set to his worde his Sacramentes for a confirmation of our faith in his worde And to put vs the better in memory of the gifte geuen vnto vs by his word he called the same Sacramentes by the name of the gift geuen vnto vs in them So circumcisiō is called the Lordes league the pascal lambe is called the Lordes passing thorow Egipt Babtisme is called the new birth and the breade and wine is called the bodie and bloud of the Lord. Therefore Nicholas marke wel this In the Lords Sacraments ther ar .ii. things an earthli thing and an heauenli In Baptisme the earthli thing is water that washeth the bodie the heauenlie thing is the blod of Christ that washeth the soule and the holie gost renuing the hole man and sanctifying him in Iesu Christ In the holi supper of the Lord the earthli thing is bread and wine that we receiue at our mouthes into our bodyes which are digested in our stomaks and bi the natural powers conuerted chaūged into our substaūce and the excrementes of thē naturalli cast forth frō vs as other meates be but the heauenlie things at the blessed bodi of our lord sauiour Iesus Christ broken for vs his bloud shedde for vs vpon the crosse which we receiue bi faith with al the blessed frutes and profites that Christ bi his deathe resurrection ascencion intercession and priesthoode hathe obtained for vs. This swetelie and comfortablie we meditate in our mindes bi the working of the holy ghost it is distribute into al our actions dedes and we are wholi receiued into Christ to be one bodie wyth him as S. Paule saieth Heb. ii He that sanctifieth and thei whiche are sanctified are al of one And againe S. Paule saith The cuppe of thankesgeuing which we blisse is partaking of the bloud of Christ and the bread whiche we brake is partaking of the body of Christ For we though we be mani yet ar one bread one bodie in asmuch as we al ar partakers of one bread Nicho. These ar good words but our sir Iohn wil denie all this and we must do as our curate teacheth vs. Oliu. what teacheth he you Nic. That he offereth vp Christ in his Masse for our frendes soules Oliu. Yea but take awai moni that ye like fooles giue him and he wil sing another song In verye dede Christ was offered for our sinnes Heb. ix x but that was once for al and then he offered him self vpō the crosse as our Crede saith after he had so by that offering satisfied vnto God neither neded he anye more to sacrifice nor we ani more sacrifices for vs. For by one oblation once offered he hath made perfect vnto God al that are sanctified Sir Iohn therefore is a false Antichrist and a disceiteful iugler in this point teacheth his owne dreame and not gods worde And I pray you what woorde of God hath sir Iohn to hang vp the Sacrament in the pixe Nicho. Mary sir it is a goodly sight in the churche Oliuer But Nicholas oure crede saith Mat. xvi Lu. xxiiii Actes i. that Christ ascēded in to heauen and sitteth on the right hand of God the
father almighti And S. Peter saieth The heauens muste receiue him vntyll the tyme that al thing be restored And the angels said he should come from heauen as he ascended visiblie shal be sene Sir Ihō therfore doth great wrong to hang vp breade in the Pixe and to make the people beleue that it is Christes bodye or Christes Sacrament either Nich. why is it not the holy Sacrament Oliu. water in the fount is no Sacrament but when it is put to the vse that Christ appointed it then it is a Sacrament So bread wine are no Sacramentes vntil they be put to the vse that Christ appoynted that is to be eaten in remembraunce of his body brokē and of his bloud shed then are they Sacramentes and the worthy receyuer hath the promises of Christ but the vnworthie receiueth hys condemnatiō But whē the bread is made a gase a pageāt of a plai borne about for a pompe hanged vp to be worshipped it is an horrible abuse of Christes Sacrament For Christ neuer apointed any such worshipping of his sacramentes Nicho. why may we not worship the holy sacramēt Oliu. Yes forsoth ▪ we do worshippe it with most high honour when we vse it as Christ commaunded it to be vsed that is to eate the bread and to drinke the cup in Christes remembraūce Nich. Nai sir Iohn teacheth vs to sai a pater noster to the sacramēt to find a light afore it such like Oli. Sir Iohn hath that out of his owne brain ▪ and vnlearned nole Christ nor his Apostles nor any of the auncient doctours neuer taught any suche doctrine But I pray you what can sir Iohn do more Nicho. Manye goodlye thinges Oliue what I pray the Nich. He cā make holy water holy bread holy palme holy ashes holy candels Oliu. wherfore is holy water good Nic. To driue a war diuels troublous dreames to wash away venial sins Oli. what callest thou veniall synnes Nich. Light sinnes ▪ as swearinge of custome by gods bodye sides woundes c. telling of ribauldry tales drincking dronken and kyssing of prety wēches Oli. These be horrible sinnes in the sight of God Ephes v. and S. Paule saith for such thinges sake the wrathe of God cōmeth vpō the children of vnbelefe what callest thou deadli sin Nich. Losing of Masse Matins Euensōg breaking of imber daies vigils and lenten Oliu. Ah Lord how you worship God in vayne Math. xv Esa xxix being afraide to breake mens traditions would to God men were but halfe so ready to keepe Gods commaundementes But what remedye for those deadlye synnes Nicho. we must be shryuen to syt Iohn he shal geue vs penaunce Oliu. what is penaūce Nic. That our gostly father enioyneth vs as to sai iii. pater nosters in the worship of God and saint Iulian to fast saint Anthonies fast or to say euerye daye our Ladies psalter Oliue And are thy syns then forgeuen the when thou haste done thy penaūce Nich. why not whē I haue made amendes for them Can God haue any more then amendes Oli. Ye are deceiued Nicholas eueri wai For first ye think that synne whych in some cast is done and that which euer is horrible and great sinne afore god ye count it light and smal or no sin Againe ye thincke your synnes to be put awaye for your owne penaunce doynge and for the worthynesse of your owne woorkes whych is to to greate a blasphemye Nichol. why shoulde I not beleue that I am absolued when Syr Iohn layeth hys hande vpon me Oliuer what saith he when he absolueth thee Nicho. Many good woordes I warrant you Oliu. I trow so but what I praye the Nicho. By my troth I can not tel but beleue wel and haue well Oliu. But howe canst thou beleue that thou vnderstādest not Nich. I beleue if I be shriuen thē he beareth al the charge not I. Olyu So maiest thou be easly deceiued But Nicholas Ioel. i. Eze. xviii true penaūce or repentaunce is a tournyng with the hart vnto God hating and detesting of the sin afore passed ii Cor. v. Ephe. iiii trusting to haue forgiuenes by Iesus Christ and fully studying to liue a newe lyfe in tyme to come Thys should sir Iohn preache to vs in Englishe that our hartes maye be broosed vnto repentaunce by the law condempning vs and quickened again bi the gratious promise of the gospel I say it shoulde be don in English that we mai hear it and vnderstande it beleue it and so be absolued from our sins For they that repent and beleue are absolued bi Christ but such as do not sir Iohn mai absolue them at his pleasure but Christ absolueth them not Therefore a latin absolution to an English sinner is as good as a shulder of mutten for a sycke horsse And thynckest thou that thou art able to make a mendes for thi sinnes Nicho. whi not Oliuer wherfore died Christ then Gala. iii. if we could make amendes with our good dedes what neded we Christ then Neded his bodi to haue bene broken for our sinnes if our dedes could haue made amendes Or neded his bloude to haue bene shedde if holy water coulde haue washed awaye our synnes Christes death were in vaine if we by our owne merites might haue deserued reconciliation pardon at the hande of God Nicho. And shal I not do good dedes fast and pray ▪ and humble my selfe before God Oliu. Yes Nicholas if thou be hartely sory thou shalt weepe and lament thy wickednes fast and tame thy sinful carcasse pray and instantly aske mercie of God thi father But yet al these cannot make amendes to God for thy wickednesse committed for then neded thou not Christs death nor bloudshed to be betwene God the but thou wilt not forsake that I trust Nicho. No god forbodde I should Oliuer Then marke thys wel al thy good dedes are dewty for the time present not amendes for thy time past For if thou haddest done no sinne at all art thou not bound to kepe gods commaūdementes I trow yes But if thou offend against gods commaūdementes then must thou repent turne to god and aske pardon in Christes name and so obtain forgiuenes by his deathe who hath made amendes for the and from that time forward walke in gods commaundementes obedientlye And if thou haue hurt or harmed thy neighbour reason wold thou shuldest make him amēdes Didst thou neuer fal out with non of thi neighbours Nich. Yes by our ladi somtime Oliu. And didst thou no displeasure to thē in thine anger Nicho. No by god but as I came frō the hai making with mi pitch forke I dabbed a Cowe of hys in the flancke that she dyed of it Oliuer And what penaunce didst thou for that spiteful dede Nich. I said .v. Pater nosters in the worship of God and the .v. woundes and gaue a peny to a poore man Oliue Here if thou hadst hadde a good
ghostlye father he shoulde haue enioyned thee Math. v. Luk. xvii to aske thy neyghbour forgiuenes and gyue him as much monie as he hadde losse by thy cruell and naughtye dede Nich. Aske him forgyuenes quoth a I had rather his eien had bene out Oliu. I beleue the God will not forgiue thee tyll thys be done if thou mai by any reasonable meanes come to hym But I pray thee tell me when wast thou shriuen last Nich. In Lent when wast thou shryuen Oliuer I am shriuen euerye day Nicho. Thou shryuen euery day to what prest Oliuer To the highe priest God himselfe Psa xxxi Nicho. How canst thou come to god to be shriuē to him Thou toldest me that I cannot se him Oliuer I doo not see him by bodilye eyes but beleuyng hym to be euerye where present I bow mi hart kne to him knowledging the great sinne and miserie that is in me and beseching his merci forgiuenes of that which is past his holy defence against sinne in time to come And if many thing I perceiue my neighbour to be offended with me if I be in the faulte I seeke attonement make amēdes but if he be in faut I am content to forgiue pardon him Nich. But thou doest no pennaunce Olyu Yes my hole lyfe is a penaunce namely to mortifi the flesh and to striue against sin and to forsake mine owne wil obedyentlye to labour to do the wyll of God But what was thy penaunce Nicholas when thou wast last shriuen Nicho. By god sore penaūce Oli. what a good felowship Nic. I may not bewrai confessiō Oliu. Tel me I warant the it shal neuer come out for me Nich. Mai I trust the. Oliu. On my honesty Nicho. Sir Iohn ēioyned me to fast al the fridaies in Lent and the .v. Ladie eyens bread and water Oli. That was sore penaunce for thee that louest good ale so wel Nich. Furder that I should seke barefete wolward our Ladye of walsingham and our Ladi of Pitie of Dākaster Oliu. How canst thou seke them they were destroied by king Henry the eight a kinge of most godlie memorye and destroier of suche manifest idolatries Nicho. That is truth but sir Iohn would haue me to be a beginne agayne of those holy pilgrimages For he douteth not but within a whyle we shall haue them againe or els other as holye as euer they were Oliu. what had dost thou don that he gaue thee so sore penaunce Nicho. Horrible sinnes I cry God mercye Olyuer what Nichol. It chaunced to be holye day vpon a Thursday and vpon Friday morning or I went to the plow I was very hungry and forgetting what day it was I thought it had bene Munday and so I eate a pece of a shoulder of mutten vnwares But god knoweth I was ful sory for it Oliue O greuous synne Nich. Another time it chaunced the chalice to be left at mi house and one of the fete of it hang out at a litle hole and so I chaunced to touche it with my bare hands Oliu. That was not so great offence Nicho. No was Out sir Iohn would sing no more with it til it was new halowed And he scraped mi fingers till the bloud folowed Oliuer Is not a mā better then a shepe Nic. Yes that he is Oliue Then whether is holier thy skin on thy handes that God created or the gloues that the Glouer hath tanned and made of a shepes skin Nich. I trow the skinne of my handes is holier Oly. why maiest thou then touch the chalice and the cloute that couereth it with thy gloues on but not bare handed Nicho. I thinke it is because I handle with my bare handes many foule thinges as my fraile my dongfork mi spade so euery man the instrumentes of his occupacion Oliue Oh I crye ye mercie ye are none of the cleane fingred gentlemen But Nicholas beleue me all men know not what they haue handled many times the night before they masse But how sai you to S. Paul Act. xviii xx that got his liuing with the labour of hys owne handes and wrought with Priscilla Aquila sowing tentes and leather couerings for thē Might not he trow ye touche the chalice because he had handled suche poore instrumentes as belonged to that occupation Nich. Sir Iohn is none Apostle Oliu. I beleue that nor yet Apostolike priest For if he were he wold neuer make men to shote at a wrōg marke with such blinde superstitiouse doctrynes touche not tast not handle not Collo ii whych al perish with the vsing of thē are after the doctrines cōmaūdemētes of men Didst thou promyse to do thy penāce Nic. Nay I bought it out partely Oliuer Then I see wel sir Iohn is a Marchaūt what gauest thou for it Nichol. Tenne grotes and so he changed my pilgremage into .x. Masses v. of the v. woundes of our Lord .iii. of the purification of our Lady one of the holy gost one of Requiem for al Christen soules Oli. A marchaunt in deede that selleth fyne flower Apo. xviii and bodies and soules of men But who song these Masses Nicho. Sir Iohn promised me to sing them him selfe Oli. wel that was inough for x. grotes but how dyddest thou wyth thy fastynge woulde he not fast for thee also Nich. No he might not he saied for singing of Masse For he must put wine in his Chalice Oliu. The hipocrites binde heauy burthens Mat. xxiii and lay them on mens shoulders but they wil not once moue them with their fingers VVoulde he in no case release the Nicho. Yes at the last he changed my fasting to other good workes Olyuer what good workes Nicho. Gilding of an image of S. Fraūces another of S. Leonard bying of an holy water far of brasse with a brasen censer Oliu. This cost the a good deale of siluer Nich. I had rather haue spent al the siluer that I earned this month then haue fasted Oliu. That knewe sir Iohn well inough And tel me one thīg I pray the. what gauest thou weekely to the collectiō for the pore when it was vsed Nic. I gaue as neibours gaue thei mai haue a messe of potage at my dore such other but siluer hath ben very skāt Oli. It is very skāt when we shuld do gods commaundementes but we haue inough to do our owne imaginations And se the iust iudgementes of God you that hinched pinched to geue .ii. pence or a penye a weeke to the poore of your parish which in dede are the very images of God and Christe nowe shal ye be plaged with gilding painting of images of tre stone and with a great deale of like trūperie which are expressedly forbidden in the second commaūdement of god And wher as for reliuing the pore nedy you shuld haue had gods blessing nowe for painting and gilding ye shal haue gods curse Nich. But our sir Iohn