And if that sufficeth not we sope them or put them in the bucke and bucke them or els delyuer them to the scourers for to take out the steyne Also if we haue mettall that is rusty and canckred which hath néede to be made cleane we cast it in the fire which maketh it very cleane and consumeth the drosse and rust and other false mettall and seperateth it from the pure and fine mettall Hillarius Thereby you maye knowe that the Poets haue had more witte and reason and better colour so to do then the Priestes For they haue considered the nature of the sinnes and of the sinners together as a good Phisition doth behold the completion of those that are sicke for to giue vnto euery one a conuenient and sit remedy for his disease For they haue regarde that mans bodye was made of the foure Elements and that the completion and the affections of man doe follow the temperatnesse of the body and the nature of the elements of which they were made Forasmuch then as the body is the house and habitacion of the soule that the soule hath bene holden within that earthly body as in a prison and darke dungeon it is impossible but that it is corrupted and defiled with the filthinesse of that infectious body as he which shall depart out of an infectious and stincking prison And therefore Plato and the other Philosophers and Poets which followed his opinion haue thought that the soules had néede of some purgation after that they were seperated from the body bicause that after their departing it was impossible but that they should carry with them and kéepe some filthinesse of that corrupt flesh bicause of the coniunction conuersation and familiaritie that they had together Neuerthelesse bicause that the bodyes are not all of one complexion but according to the disposition and temperatenesse of the elements of which they are made some are more earthely and other some more heauenly according to the doctrine that they haue receiued and the exercise that they haue had in vertue some more vicious or vertuous then the others Euen so haue they estéemed and thought that the soules did differ according to the difference of the bodies from which they came out They haue then considered that there are some sinnes that are more thin easie lighter then others holding more of the nature of the ayre and of the winde then of the earth And therefore they must purge them by the element which approcheth néerest to their nature and which séemeth for them the best remedie The others that are more heauy and wayghtie as the water is more heauyer and wayghtyer then the ayre and winde are washed in the water For they doe holde most of the nature of the water And therefore they put them in the bucke wherein they driue beat and wash them very cleane Besides those there are other more wayghtyer and heauyer and altogether earthlye whome neyther the wyndâ— nor the water can make cleane And therfore y Soules that haue ben so defiled with y filthinesse of their vile wicked body so much giuen vnto y pleasures of y body that they are almost degenerated become earthly are purged by the fire For thei haue néede of a hotter stronger elemeÌ„t for to purifie them and for to consume all filthe and drosse that there remayne nothing but the pure mettall of the celestiall nature For contraries are healed by contraries But least you should thinke that I am the authour and inuentour of that Philosophie and that I speake these thinges of mine owne head and for my profite behold how the Poet speaketh in whose verses you shal finde comprised in few words a great part of that Platonicall Plutarchall Theologie where he writeth of the soules seperated from the body after this manner MOreouer when their end of lyfe and lyght doth them forsake Yet can they not their sins nor sorrows all poore souls of shake Nor all contagions fleshly from them voydes but must of neede Much things cogeÌ„dred long by wondrous means at last out spread Therefore they plagued bene and for their former faults and sins Their sundry paynes they bide som hye in ayre doth hang on pins Some fleeting bene in flouds deepe in gulfs themselues they tire Till sinnes away be washt or cleansed cleere with purging fire Each one of vs our penaunce heere abydes then sent we bee To Paradise at last we fevv fields of ioy doe see Till compasse long of time by perfect course hath purged quite Our former cloddred spots and pure hath left our ghostly spirite And sences pure of soule and simple sparkes of heauenly lyght Thomas I doe thinke that the Alcumistes haue taken theire foundacion vppon that Philosophieâ— For that is the true manner for to extract the fifte essence But I thinke that those Phisiciens of the soules had néede to sée their vrine for to make them better know their complexion and to giue vnto them the medicine and purgation méete for the same Hillâ—â—ins It should be then néedefull that the Soules that are in Hell and in Purgatorye shoulde aswell haue Esculapius or Cosme and Daiman for their Phisitious as the Gods and Saints haue in heauen and by a better reason For the Gods and the Saints haue no more néede neither of medicine nor of purgation as the poore soules haue that are kept in Purgatory I know not how the auncient Poets and Painims haue gyuen vnto Mercury the office of Phisicke for to practice his medicines in Hell with which hée guideth the soules for to make them to passe ouer the floudes by Charon the ferry man For he had bene very méete and proper for the soules Thomas But when they shall haue a Phisition who shall bée their Poticary for to make their drouges Hillarius The Priestes which haue their shops full and are better furnished with them then euer the Panims were which had chiefly thrée sortes of drougs for the purgacions as well of the quicke as the dead the which Ouid hath comprehended in thrée woordes saying Three times the olde man vvashed vvas vvith Water faire cleere And vvith hot fire and Sulphur strong he purged doth appeare Besides these purgations of the water fire brimstone they had also their holy winnowinges or faminges which they vsed chiefly at the feastes and sacrifices of God Baccus the which they made with a fanne consecrated for that pourpose Theophilus Beholde the dreamings wherein men doe fall yea the most wisest when they gyue themselues to play the Philosopher with heauenly things after their owne fantasie and minde without the spirite of God and that they doe séeke the purgation of their sinnes in their purgatories besides Iesus Christ Thomas Mée thinckes that wée doe yet reteine almost all those customes For wée doe light and offer torches tapers and candels of Waxe as well for the dead as for those
the one and the other agréeth more then it doth of the dead to the lyuing Secondly bicause that they themselues can better perceiue of their estate and condition and whether they bée more in payne or whethether they be out of it then we For there is more agréeing of the spirits to the spirits which are seperated from the bodye then to vs which are yet wrapped in them And which is more if that the soules of Purgatory doe know eyther by diuine reuelation or by the report of Angells or of the soules of them which dayly doe depart out of this worlde that which is done vppon earth as your Doctors doe testifie and affirme can they not aswell reporte and tell vnto the Saints that which is done in Purgatory It is not lyke to be true iâ— there bée any but that they are better aduertised then we and that many wayes And if they be aduertised I cannot beléeue that they are so inhumayne and vngentle if they doe pray for the lyuing but that they doe pray a great deale more for those poore soules sith that they are in so gréeuous torments without any comparison that may be in the world I doe speake alwayes according to your doctrine And this is the thirde reason by the which I will conclude agaynst the Priestes eyther that the Saints doe not praye for the lyuing or the it is in lyke manner necessary and a great dele more néedeful that they pray for the dead Now if they pray for the dead I am of an opinion that we leaue vnto theÌ„ al the charge For it agreeth better to them then vnto vs sith that they are no more of this world but of the other in which are those that are dead and that we haue no more cure and charge but of the lyuing If they will deny that they doe not pray for the dead I haue more iust and lawfull reason to deny vnto them that they doe not pray for the lyuing Except peraduenture they would say that the Saintes were as cruell as thâ—â— which will suffer those poore soules alwayes to burne which do bring vnto them no money Hillarius Thou hast put foorth very strong reasons But I will a little helpe Eusebius to defende his cause and will propounde and put forth reasons against thâ—â—e to which thou shalt haue much a doe to aunswere Thou speakest of the saints what wilt thou saye if I proue vnto thée by liuely strong reasons that the Pope hath more power and authoritie then they Theophilus That should be an other â—atter Hillarius I will make thy selfe confesse it Who hath more power and authoritie either God or the saints Theophilus There néedeth not an aunswere vnto thy question For one may vnderstande it without speaking There is not a Papist but will â—asely confesse that there is not a saint which hath vertue nor power but so much as God will giue vnto him Hillarius I haue my meaninge and I will nowe make thée yeâ—de thy selfe vanquished For thou hast alreadie confessed vnto me of thine owne propâ—â— moâ—th hast coâ—firmed my proposition the which I â—â—l yet better proue vnto thee and I will concluâ—e all our dispuâ—aâ—ion in a little sillogisme And I will take for my Maior and for the first proposition of my antecedent that which thou hast confessed vnto me Take then my Syllâ—gisme God hath more power and authoritie then the Saintes Nowe the Pope is god â—â—go the Pope hath more power and authoritie then the Saints The Maior is alreadie confessed by thee It resteth now but for to prâ—ue the Minor and the second proposition and afterwards the consequence and conclusion sâ—albe certâ—ine and â—â—â—ubyâ—able Nowe but that the Pope is God in â—arth thou caâ—st not dâ—nyâ—st for many reasons the which I will not nâ—we shâ—we forth But I will do more For I will prâ—ue that he is not onely the God on earth but which is more in heauen and in hell and that he doth make things which God neuer did make Theophilus By that accempt the Pope then shall not haue not only more power then the Saints but more then God himselfe Hillarius It is very true and thou thy selfe shalt Iudge it prouided that thou do heare my reasons I will not alledge for confirmation of my theame that which saint Paul hath written of Antechrist the man of sinne the sonne of perdition which exalteth himselfe aboue all that is called god or which is worshipped so y he shal sit as god in the Temple of God and shew himselfe as God Notwithstanding that that Prophecie and titles doe agrée meruaylously well to that God of whom we speake But I will procéede by an other way the which shall serue for an exposition of those words of Saynt Paul. Theophilus If thou doest as thou sayst the Pope and all the Papists shall be much bounde vnto thée For they say onely that he is God in earth Now if he be but God in the earth he hath then nothing in heauen And he must not open the gates of Paradise vnto the soules of Purgatory And so I may serue my selfe with their publyque witnesse for to proue that which I said of his keyes which cannot be stretched foorth out of this earth Hillarius A man may easely reply thereon For according to their doctrine Purgatory is in the earth Wherefore sith hat he is God in earth he may well haue some power There should be an other reason if Purgatory were betweee the Moone and the earth where Plutarch putteth it except they will say that with the earth they doe also compare the ayre and all the other elements making the Pope aswell God in the ayre water and fire as in the earth at the least thou wilt not deny but that he may wel haue the keyes of hell for to leade thether the soules and that he is the God of the same if it be in the center of the earth according to the common opinion of his Doctors But for to come vnto the matter thou which art a Theologian knowest that there be two manner of wayes to see and know god There is a manner to sée him before aâ—â— a manner to see him behinde To see him before that is to say in his beeing glory and maiestie it is not giuen vnto mortall man For he shall not be capable of such vision and knowledge And therefore hée aunswered vnto Moses who desired to see his glory that he should not sée it before but he would shew vnto him onely his hinder and backe parts I doe vnderstand and meane according to that which I haue learned of some Theologians that to see and know the backe partes of God that is to see and know him by his workes by his effects and in his creatures For sith that he is incomprehensible vnto man in his substaunce glory and maiestie the way and manner that he hath giuen vnto man for to know
necessary for our bodies and soules Can he or will hée not dooe that without those thinges wilt they binde and tye his grace vertue and power and inclose shut it in wax salt and water as they doe require by their prayers If those thinges be not charmes sorceries and enchauntmentes I knowe not what we may call charmes sorceries enchauntmentes Hillarius When they do coniure and blesse their welles and fontes christening places they gape ouer the water and blowe in it as though they had the holy Ghost within their throate and that they would shut him in it It is very néedefull that that holy Ghost whome they doe plunge and shutte in that water can swim or otherwise he shall bee in daunger of drowning Theophilus Euen as they doe with the water war so doe they with the fire and incenie vppon Easter euen when they blesse their Pascall of wax Eusebius Sith that all that is done vnto the honour of God can it be but good Theophilus Howe can it be to the honour of God to attribute vnto the creatures the honour which beloÌ„geth vnto him Or to shut vppe and lymit his grace vertue and power by them And to ouerthrowe and tourne vpside downe altogether the order of God and the vse for which hée hath created them for hée hath not created the water salt fire the ware for to purifie the soules for to oriue away the Diuelles and for to be remedyes to all corporall and spirituall diseases But he hath created the water for to drincke for to wash awaye the filthinesse of the body for to refresh sprinckle and helpe the naturall necessities for which God hath ordayned them As much must wée vnderstande of the fire salte and ware and all other creatures whiche cannot serue vs but accordinge to their naturall properties and according to the ordinaunce of god Wherefore whosoeuer altereth and chaungeth that order of nature and vse of the creatures otherwise then he ought attributinge vnto them any other propertie then that whiche God hath gyuen vnto them hée blasphemeth God and is worthy to be taken for a Sorcerer and a Magitian For wherein doth a good Phisitian and a Philosopher differ from a Charmer and Magitian but in this that those doe followe the order of God in his creatures and their naturall dysposition and those héero doe peruerte and ouerthrowe it and wyll by woords charmes and coniurations chaunge their nature and bring them to other effectes then God hath appointed them Eusebius By thy reasons thou doest also abolysh the vse of the Sacramentes Theophilus That is an other thinge forasmuche as it is ordeyned of GOD who maye make hys creatures to serue to what it pleaseth hym For hée which is the Lord may vse them eyther after that order as hée hath appointed them of nature or miraculously aboue nature Although that who so would attribute vnto the water of Baptisme or vnto the breade and wine in the Lordes supper that whiche you doe attribute vnto your waters saltes fires inceuse and waxe shoulde bée greatly to be rebuked For all the vertue and efficacie of the Sacramentes doe depende of the promise of God of which you haue nothinge in your ceremonies invented and forged by your owne sence and vnderstanding wythout the worde of God no more then the Magicians and enchaunters haue in their witchinges and inuocations Wherefore we cannot repute and take such superstitions followinge the manner forme as you doe holde but for such as those haue bene of whiche you haue taken the example Hillarius But how can it bée pleasing and agréeable to God to forsake and renounce Iesus Christ his sonne and the Christianitie for to make themselues Panims or Iewes Tell me Eusebius if thou doe not thincke that the Chaldeans and Persians are worthy to be accompted and taken for Idolaters to baue had the fire in so great admiration that they haue worshiped it as God Eusebius Who doubteth of that Hillarius Now what reason haue you for to excuse your selfe of that same Idolatry more lawfully then they Theophilus That Idolatry is the most auncient which hath bene almost amongest men chiefely before that there was any vse of Images And I doubte not but that wée referre it vnto the Idolatry of the fire followinge also the opinion of Sainct Hierome and of Lyra that which Moses calleth Vr of the Chaldees For notwithstanding that that name is taken for the place wherein Tarch the Father of Abraham dwelled yet neuerthelesse it is very lyke that that place hath taken his name of that fire which the Chaldeans worshipped as wée sée dayly that many Townes and Villages dooe take their name of the Gods Sainctes and Patrons whiche are there adored honoured as are S. Claudus S. Hippolite Sainct Denis Sainct Iames others innumerable For Vr signifieth in the Hebrew and Chaldee tongue fire and furnayse And vnto that agréeth well that which is spoken off in the booke of Iosua that Tareh the Father of Abraham was an Idolater although there bee no mencion made that hée worshypped Images and Idolls But it was bicause he was defiled and infected with that Idolatry of the Chaldees for the which Abraham departed from his countrey in not worshypping the fire in stéede of the true God. Hillarius That Idolatry hath not bene onely among the Chaldees and Persians But it is also spredde abroade amonge other Nations who of longe time haue in lyke manner worshypped the fire vnder the name of Vesta who was in greate honour and estimation amonge the Troyans before the warre of Troy and from thence hath bene wyth the other Gods caryed into Italy by Aeneas and so came vppe the custome to kéepe a continuall fire in his Temple at Rome within a Bore or Pyxe as they doe nowe the holye hoaste For that cause the Poetes manye times dooe call it the Troyans fire and the fire of Laomedon the founder and buylder of troy The Greekes also dyd the lyke in Athens and Delphos And Seruius wituesseth that they kept it also in the Temple of Iupiter and of Minerua by which they woulde vnderstande the earthly heauen and the celestiall fire And Stâ—abo hath written almost the lyke that is to say that there was an olde Temple of Minerua Poliade in which was kept a Lampe continually burning and there was a Couent of Nounes I thincke that Pope Sabinianus dyd take example of the samo when that he constituted and ordeined that Lampes shoulde be continually kept burninge in the Temples as Platine and Volaterran dooe witnesse Theophilus If they had the lyke that of which Sainct Augustine maketh mencion which was inextinguible in a certeine Temple of Venus whiche the Panims had they woulde make of it a great myracle and would esteeme it for a goodly relike For he sayth that it contimeth alwaies burning in the aire abroad without euer being put out or quenched eyther with the winde
canon which was made But yet at this day that errour continueth among the Bohemians and Morauians the which yet neuerthelesse the Papists themselues doe not allow no more then that which S. Cyprian Origene did which did distribute the supper vnto young children when their fathers and mothers brought them in their armes in comming to communicate the same And they gaue vnto them not onely the breade but also the cup. Now let vs thinke if already such errors were about the sacraments in that time there what may chaunce afterwards For Cyprian reigned about the yeare after the death and passion of Iesus Christ two hundreth and fiftie Those worthy men would not haue so much attributed vnto the Sacraments if they had not so much taken to the rigor and to the letter the words of Iesus Christ Of the like beginning came vp the error of those which estéemed thought the he which after that he was baptised hauing once receiued the supper could neuer be damned or at the least should be once delyuered from damnation bicause that Iesus Christ hath said I am that liuing bread that came downe from heauen if anyman eate of this bread hée shall liue for euer They vrge vpon the letter said that Iesus Christ could not lye which hath promised the same Yet neuertheles Sainct Augustine rebuketh confuteth their errour Beholde y absurdities into which men do fall for fault of wel examining the Scriptures when they doe take them according to the rigor of the letter For whosoeuer wil according to the opinion which the Papistes haue of the Sacrament of the alter take litterally y which Iesus Christ said of eating of his flesh drinking his bloud there is no doubt but that we shall be constrayned to confesse that all those which haue once taken the supper are all saued and y all those which shall not once receiue it are all damned And so it shal be no lesse requisite to giue y supper vnto the young childrē to giue power vnto womē to giue it them then y baptisme they y would take the words those matters by y rigor And therfore for to retourne to the place by thée alledged by the absurdities which should follow of thy expositiō the which do repugne against the grace of Iesus Christ as I haue declared vnto thee thou maist wel know that we must not vnderstand that place after that manner as thou doest expounde it For Iesus Christ speaketh not in that place there of visible baptisme nor of his institution But speaketh of the regeneration of man and sheweth what thing he must haue for to be a Christian to wit that it is necessary that he doe renounce forsake his first generation natiuitie which is altogether corrupted and cursed and that he be regenerated by the spirit of God and thorowe the incorruptible séede of his woorde insomuch that he is made a newe creature bearinge the Image of Iesus Christ the true celestiall Adam euen as hée hath borne that of the olde and terrestriall Adam And therefore hath hée sayd Except a man be borne from aboue or a new be cannot sée the kingdome of god And after he expoundeth it by the other proposition following which signifieth none other thing then that which hée hath already sayd before For to be borne from aboue or to bée borne againe and to be borne of water and the holy Ghost are equiualent manners of speakings And the two propositions of Iesus Christ are equipolent y one to the other ther is none other difference sauing that y last is more ample and expoundeth the first For sith that our first natiuitie is carnal it must be y the second be spirituall Sith that the first man is of the earth earthly it is requisite that the second which is from heauen be heauenly and spirituall Now that regeneration transformation cannot be made but by the spirite of god For as it is written in that same place That which is borne of the flesh is flesh That that is borne of the spirit is spirit And therefore Iesus Christ willing to expoūd vnto Nicodemus y which he had said before Except y a man be borne frō aboue or a new he cannot see the kingdome of God Afterwardes saith which shall not bée borne of water and the holy Ghost bicause that the holy Ghost author of that regeneration is giuen from aboue which worketh a secōd natiuitie in vs which is celestiall and spirituall Eusebius But what néeded it to adde the water was it not sufficient to name the holy Ghost Theophilus Wherefore hath Iohn Baptist sayd speaking of the ministry of Iesus Christ That he would baptise with the holye Ghoste and with fire what néeded it sith that he named the holy Ghost to adde vnto it the fire Shall it be therefore necessary to constitute a baptisme of the fire as some do say that some Christians which are amongst y Indians Aethiopians Persians do who for that cause did vse the fire for baptisme of the fire Eusebius One may well perceiue there that Sainct Iohn taketh the fire by a Metaphore and that he vnderstandeth no other thing by the fire then the holy Ghost of whom he hath already spokē the better to expound the nature of the same for as the fire is pure cleane and cannot suffer any spot or filth but purgeth maketh cleane illuminateth the consciences enflameth them to the loue of god For which cause he was sent vnto y Apostles in y liknes of tongues of fire the which S. Iohn did foresée forespeak off vsing such wordes Theophilus Thy exposition doth please me very much Wherefore if thou makest it no difficultie to take in that place the fire for the spirit of God for more ample expositiō of his nature properties wherfore oughtest thou to make a doubt to take y water in that place for that same signification séeing y agréeing y the water hath with the nature of y holy Ghost For there is no lesse reason but a great deale more appearance For Sainct Iohn putteth the holy Ghost first the fire afterwards Wherfore it séemeth either that he vnderstandeth two thinges seperated or that he expoundeth the thing more cléere by a more darker thing Although that thy aunswere doth sufficiently satisfye that obiection But in that place Iesus Christ putteth y water first afterwards as if hée would expound his Metaphore and comparison and giue vnto it more greater brightnesse he declareth what he would signifie by that water to wit the holy Ghost vnto whom he giueth that name for many causes First bicause that as the fire is an element meruailous pure and cleane and so necessary vnto mans life that it is impossible for men to lack it so is it of y water the which is also by nature cléere pure and
of the holy Scriptures is sufficient for vs yet this ought further to moue vs to confound the Infidlls when we doe see the vertue of the truth to be so puissaunt and of such force that it constrayneth Philosophers Poets and others who haue bene ignorant of the knowledge of God to confesse it and to beare witnesse thereoff Thomas But me thinkes that our Priests and Monks do much differ from Plato Virgile in y they do lodge y richest people and the great Princes and Lords sooner in Purgatory then in Hel. Hillarius Do you not know the cause There came no profite vnto Plato nor Virgile of the Purgatory as commeth vnto those beléeue that although they had any profite they were of a better conscience and that for their owne perticuler gayne they would not haue so seduced the poore ignorant people For they do shew foorth by their writings that they had a certeyne feare and knowledge of God more then we may acknowledge in these our priestes For they watche after the deade bodyes as the Rauens doe vppon carrion And if they can méete with any dead man that hath his purse well stuffed with money wherewith hée is able to paye his raunsome they will be sure to make him tell who hath eaten the fat they will put him in such a place from whence hee cannot come out before they haue taken some fat from him For they are the tyrants of tyrants and the pillers of the great pillers and Vsurers whom they will not suffer to be broiled and tormented of the Diuells but they will be their hangmen themselues take away that office from them to whom God hath giuen it Thomas They shal be theÌ„ much tormeÌ„ted by this accompt For they shal be cruelly handled in this world and also in the other after their death as they haue vexed b tormented y worlde whilst they were alyue And suffer them not notwithstanding to fall into y hands of the Diuells But I would gladly know what payne the other haue that haue committed smaller sinnes Hillarius Plato and Virgile do lodge these in Purgatory especially the simple people which haue not bene of great credite and authoritie Wherefore they could not haue so great lycence to doe euill as the others And if they had committed any fault they had not the power so much to hurt the people as the others had For the sinnes of the Princes doe not hurt onely themselues But as well by them as by their euill example they doe hurte and destroye all the worlde where the simple people doe hurt but themselues And therefore they did thinke that their sins were sanable and that they might be purged For that cause they condemned them not vnto eternall dampuation For they thought y they had not committed euils inough for to be damned that ther was some remedie to be healed Also they lodged them not at y first dash in y fields of bliseas as the other great and vertuous men who thorowe their vertue haue merited to be incontinently receiued into blessednesse and toye or in the number of Gods. Thomas Those then which were good people and which had not the power to doe so euill as the other doe go into Purgatory against their wils Neuertheles I am sure that God will not held them excused therfore For â—e regardeth the heart will and the affections and not onely the workes as the Philosophers doe Our priests differ not much from that opinion For they Cannonise lodge among the Saints those whome they doe iudge to haue bene most vertuous and holyest and the soules perfectly good the which doe fly straight into heauen and haue no néede of our good déedes Hillarius That is to wéete the most greatest Hypocrites superstitious and Idolaters those which haue done most for them and that haue best nourished and fed their fat bellyes Thomas They doe lodge in Purgatory those who haue not accomplished héere their penaunce which neuerthelesse dyed confessed and repentaunt or which do not carry deadly sinne with them but onely veniall sinnes the which may be purged by the fire For there is some remedy for those Hillarius Such is their doctrine But notwithstanding when it commeth to triall they neyther haue regarde to mortall nor yet veniall sinnes but sooner to the riches or to the pouertie It is all one with them whether the sinnes be mortall or veniall sanable or insanable so that the dead hath wherewith to paye their drougs medicines money for his raunsome and letters of grace that they make for them by their buls and pardons And as touching the poore of whome they haue no profite it is to them all one whether they go be it into Paradise Hell or Purgatory For they haue no care of the soules but onely of their purses Thomas I haue yet one thing to demaunde of thée Doe they say that there is fire in y Poets Purgatory as there is in y of the priests Hillarius It séemeth to mée that y Poets are a lyttle more reasonable and more merciful then the priests and Monks For they make not such broyling and rosting of the poore soules Thomas How then Hillarius Bicause that they haue assigned the payne a little easier and lyghter according to euery ones misdéedes For they condempne not all generally to y fire But they do make thrée differences according to the greatnesse and smalnesse of sinnes Those that haue sinned most grieuously and which are most full and stuffeâ— with sinnes and which are most earthly and most hardest to be purged béeing so harde glewed and tyed to the soule that it cannot be pluckt away nor made cleane by no meanes but thorow the fire are put and cast into the hot furnace For they must be melted all new agayne The other that are not altogether so filthy vile and that haue not their sinnes so glewed in the soule that one cannot pul them away are holden for a certeine time within the great goulfes of water for to be there washed and made cleane Ther are yet others y are lesse faultie and guyltie which haue committed but certeyne small sins that hath no neede of such strong purgation And therefore they are hanged but a lyttle in the ayre for to winde them For they néede but to haue a lytle winde for to blowe away the dust that cleaueth fast to the soule bicause of the coniunction that it hath with his body and his fleshe Thomas As farre as I perceiue they doe with the soules in that Purgatorye as we doe with our apparayle sheetes vessell and mettall For when we haue any clothes or shéetes that are dustie or whereof we doubt the Moths and Wormes we stretch them abroad and hang them vppon a pearch in the ayre for to winde and cleane them And if ther be any spot or staine that will not easely come out we wash them with water
that are aliue And the first thing that we must haue when one dyeth are the torches to leade hym to hye graue And all the yeare after wée must haue Candels lighted vpon his Sepulcher and after to offer them vnto the Priestes Hillarius It is bicause they sée not Thomas Whom do you meane the Priests or those that bée dead Hillarius Both the one the other We cannot deny but that the dead bodyes haue lost their sight that they are in darkenesse as touching their body But neuerthelesse the shining and brightnesse of the torches serueth them to no pourpose I thincke also that the soule hath no neede of them For if it goe into Paradise it hath the Angels to carry it thether as the soule of Lazarus was carryed by the Angels into Abrahams bosome For that hath light inough and the Angels also wyth the brightnesse of god Wherefore they haue not to doe wyth our light that cannot serue for the soule but for the body onely If the soule goe into hell there are guides inough for to bring it thether and it is not nowe necessary that we do giue light to it It hath the Angels of Sathan altogether contrarie to the other Angels to carry it thether Thomas But if it go into Purgatory for that it is so déep hath it no néede of light for to conduct them through those darke places Hillarius If that which they saye bée true there is fire inough without putting any more vnto it And if that fire bée not sufficient for them I thincke that the light of our torches cannot giue light there For if the Sunne beames and his brightnesse cannot enter and pearce through what may wée hope of our fire You may then vnderstande by these reasons that all these lights serue nothinge at all for the dead nor profite them neither for the body nor yet the soule It must be then that they doe profite the Priestes or els it is a lost labour But wherein can they serue for them For if they bee blinde and that the Sunne light helpeth them not no more shall they see by the illumination of the torches and candels If they doe see cléere inough they haue no néede for the cléerenesse of the Sunne ought to suffice them except they buryed them in the nyght as the Panims dyd bury the poore that had not money to pay for their funerall pompe Thomas It must then bée that they are eyther madde out of their wyt or els that they would shew by the same that those that do such things are fooles and depriued of all vnderstanding Hillarius I thincke that they would do as Diogenes did who at noone dayes lighted a candle and did séeke for men in the middle of the Market wyth a lanterne Thomas To what pourpose dyd hée the same Hillarius For to make men to vnderstande that they were beastes wythout reason and vnderstanding and that hée had much a doe to finde men that is to saye wyse men both of wit and iudgement although hée sought them with a lanterns Should hée not haue more occasion to doe the same nowe at this present time For to what ende do all those lights serue but for to declare that we are the successours of the Panims who after the same sort vsed torches and candels at the burials and funerals of their dead For we haue not read in all the holy Scriptures that euer the true seruauntes of God haue lighted candels for the dead Nor that they were euer in such superstition Also we néed not to doubt but that the holy Water wherewith wée sprinkle the graues of the dead is also taken of the immitation of the Panims Theophilus I doubt it not It is very true that the auncient people of God had certeine washings certeine baptismes for their purifications not that they did thinck that the filthinesse and vncleanenesse of the soule conscience could be washed made cleane by the water corruptible Elements For sith that the soule is a spirit it must haue a spirituall purgation agreeing to his nature and not corporall Thomas What profit then do they receiue of such ceremonies Theophilus They did the same for to testifie witnesse that they were sinners polluted vncleane and that they had need of a purgation the which they could not finde in themselues but muste séeke it of others Forasmuch then as they acknowledge themselues sinners and in makinge open confession by those exteriour and outwarde washings and do witnesse that the bloude of Iesus Christ was necessarie for them for the washinge awaye of their sins they pleased by that obedience and confession God and by the faith that they had in Iesus Christ â—figured by those ceremonies and sacramentes whom they did looke for to bée their Sauiour They did truely communicate the bloud of Iesus which for them ought to haue bene shed as wée doe by the baptisme sauing but that wée had all things more excellent then they But wée doe not finde that they euer baptized the dead nor sprinkled their Sepulchres with coniured Water Hillarius Wée reade that the heathen Priestes vsed in their purgations the water of the sea with which they sprinckled that which they would purge Of which Proclus that noble Philosopher the Platonist yeldeth the reason saying that such water hath the propertie to purge bicause it is salt and that the salt hath in it some portion of the fire and holdeth somewhat of his Nature That same maketh mée to thincke that our Priestes for that same cause dyd put salte in their holy Water For before they dyd coniure the Water they dyd first coniure the salte and after dyd put it into the Water Thomas They dyd it after the example of Eliseus Theophilus But Eliseus dyd not cast the salt into the water for to coniure the Diuels there wyth but hath done it for to purge and make it cleane bicause that it was infected and poisoned so much y none could drincke of it And notwithstanding that Eliseus dyd put salte in it yet neuerthelesse the salt of his nature had not the propertie to correct and amend the corruption of the Water if the vertue of God had not wrought and done it nuraculously As it is declared by the applications of the thinges which Iesus Christ vsed as in putting the spittle vpon the tongues of those that were dumme for to make them speake or vpon the eyes of the blinde for to make them see or wythin the eares of those that were deafe for to make them heare not bicause that hée coulde not dooe that wythout suche applications as hée hath very well declared in a great many other of his woorkes For howe oftentimes hath hée healed them in touching them onely either by the hand as the leapers or by y gowne as y woman which was diseased with the issue of bloude and others without either séeing
or touching them as the son of y Centurion But euen as thereby hée woulde declare that al procéeded from his vertue and power not of the creatures Also sometime hée vsed them for to let vs to vnderstande that when hée woulde they shoulde serue hée gaue them such vertue and propertie as it pleaseth him for to learne vs that wée ought not to despise the meanes that hée hath gyuen vnto vs how vile soeuer our reason iudgeth them to bée For whatsoeuer they may bée so that hee hath ordeined them and that wée haue hys promise wée muste not doubt but by them hée doth that which hée hath promysed Therefore hée hath taken thinges which had not of their owne nature the vertue to bringe to passe those effectes to whiche they haue bene applyed that all men might knowe that from hym onely procéeded the vertue and not of any ordinary or naturall cause But these miraculous woorkes are nothinge at all lyke vnto those which our Priestes doe and theire ceremonies haue not such promises If by that they could remedy she corrupt waters as Eliseus did we will acknowledge the gyft to woorke myracles to bée in them which was in Eliseus But to what ende serueth the salt in the water Hillarius To what ende serueth it to bée put into the mouthes of the little children when they baptize them Theophilus As much as their spittle profited the infants béeing put into their mouthes vppon the tongue and vppon the eares Hillarius Mée thinckes that I doe see Apes which would counterfet al y woorkes of Iesus Christ At the least wise all their dooings are as those of the Apes which doth but little and yet euill If they could by their spittle make the little children and those that are dumme speake or make the blinde sée and the deafe heare I would counsaile them to vse it often But if I had a little childe I would not haue that such swinish pockie Merchaunts as are among them should breath ouer his face nor put their spittle in his mouth They doe call their salt y salt of wisdome And in stéed to season vs to make vs wise through the salt of the woord of God They salt vs in the throat at the baptisme I thincke that they feared y the wine would not abide drincking that we should not be good bibbers Wherefore they would season vs in good time I beléeue that they greatly feared least we should become Turkes and least we should cast vp the wine if they salted not wel the throate as men doe vnto their shéepe If they coulde with their salt make the fooles to become wise I woulde thinck it good to salt al the foolish people as men do salt the fat larde throughout all the body not onely in the throat Thomas I would not giue y counsaile For then the salt would ware very déere if Saloman hath said true wryting that the number of the fooles are infinit Hlilarius Thy reason is good For y inconuenience which thou speakest off would follow and an other more greater To wéet that S. Maturyn who healed the fooles should loose his occupation Besios that I beléeue that the salt although there be great quantitie store of it wil not much profit y soules when the Priestes doe mingle them with the Water For the disease is very incurable But for to retourne to our Priests I doo beléeue that of that salt Water they would make such potage for the soules as my Mother did once make for hir selfe for me my little brother which were not much aboue twelue or xiij yeares of age without putting into it eitheir Oile or Butter bicause that she would haue vs to fast with hir with bread water For if ther had bene any fatnesse in the broth or potage it had not bene a perfect fast If it bée so our Priests on this side the sea which dwell farre from it should haue better coulour cause to salt season the water then those y dwell hard by it For if they would make potage for the soules they shall finde inough of such sodden Water in the sea they shall not néede to seeke after the example of Eliseus for to make him their Authour For he was neuer such a Cooke But they must giue the honour of that inuētion vnto Pope Alexander the first of that name For if they will purge the dead through water I woulde gyue them counsaile rather to wash them altogether with hotte Water as the Panims dyd theirs and call that washing the last bath or washing euen as our Priests doo call their last an cling or vnction the latter Sacrament In which they doe héerein differ from the Panims that they anoynted men a lyttle before they dye the Panims anointed them afterwardes Wherefore their vnction was a little more latter But least you should thincke that I speake wythout authoritie as many Diuines and Preachers doe when they doo preache their owne fables and dreames I will bring out first for mine Authours that auncient Poet Ennius saying When death vvith dreadfull dart bereft king Tarquin of his life His body vvasht and nointed vvas by handes of his ovvne vvife And Virgile speakinge of the burninge of Misenus sayth Some brought the Water vvarme in Caudrōs hot they set in flowre The body colde they vvash a precious ointment on they powre If the water could any thing profite the deade it were better to make for them a great bath to plunge all their body in a great tub of Water and to wash them well for a good space then to sprinckle them so little For me séemeth that that manner of dooing is more proper for to kindle the fire of Purgatory if the Water doth descend thether then for to quench it And the same I wyll proue by authoritie and by examdle I wyll first proue it by the authoritie of many good Phisitions which say that when a man is very drie for want of drincke it is better for him to drincke a good draught at once then to sippe often For that same doth not quenche the heate that is in the body but kindleth it the more And to the ende that it doe not séeme that they speake that wythout reason they doe also alleadge the example of the Smythes the which I will bring foorth for my seconde argument which is infallible inasmuch as it is alwayes confirmed by experience For wée sée that when they woulde haue their coales burne well and to giue great heat they sprinckle thē with water which they haue alwayes ready wyth a little sprinckle or besome as the Priestes haue them in their holy water stocke There is yet an other reason for which I doe finde the manner of the Panims better and more lowable bicause that at the leastwise that shall serue for the dead for to proue whether
they bée dead or not For it chaunceth oftentimes through some disease that the spirite is so locked and enclosed in the body that man loseth altogether his breath in such sort that one can by no meanes perceiue it but iudgeth him to bée dead and so hée is deceiued By that meanes sometimes some haue bene buryed quicke The which thing ought very much to bée feared in all suffocations and chokings and chiefly of the matrice of women and also in the time of the pestilence or plague wherein many times it hath bene found that they haue brought to bée buryed those who were found aliue Wherefore it is not méete to bury any dead body to sodeine especially when hée dyeth sodeinly For y may very well sometime happen vnto man which we haue proued in some beastes namely in the Dormouse which haue bene found so fast of sléepe in the Winter that it is not possible to awake them As it hath ben many times proued in some of them who although they were cut a sunder in the middle did not wag nor stur vntill such time as they are put into hot sething water And to that ende and pourpose many Historiographers and namely Pliny maketh mention of one Attilius Auiola Lucius Lamia that after that their bodies were cast vpon the woode for to be burned after the custome of the auncient Romaines did stand right vp when they felt the heate of the fire and there taried stil For none could succour helpe them bicause y fire was kindled about them but were burned all aliue Thomas Those haue no néed to go into purgatory For they haue ben purged inough alredy Hillarius For y cause y panims dyd not burne the bodyes of those that dyed incontinently but kept them seauen dayes and washed them in hot water and bewayled and lamented them with a loude voyce many times as we doe vnto those that doe sounde or faynt when any fayntnesse of heart hath taken them And after when they haue bewayled them the last time they doe burne them the eight day and the nynthe day they bury their ashes For that cause doe they also celebrate the nyne dayes feaste for the soule of the dead Thomas If that which you speake off be true we do but a lyttle differ from them For our priests doe cry after them with so loud a voyce that if they be not deafe or altogether dead they would awake Hillarius There is no difference but that we are more foolish more mad then the Panims For the Panims do not crye after the dead but vntill they are burned and their ashes buryed But our Priestes doe crye after them ouer their Tombes and Sepulchers twentie thirtie fortie yea a hundreth yeares after their death and although they are altogether consumed to duste But I finde them a greate deale wiser and better aduised in that matter for that they doe sprinkle theire Sepulchers with water onely and not with wine as the Panims that did shed out great aboundaunce of wine and milke vppon the Sepulchers and more lyberally then those doe the holy water Thomas They were very fooles doe they thinke that that wine descendeth into Purgatory for to giue drincke to the soules of the dead or the bodyes that were in the Sepulchers HIllarius We are asmuch fooles if we do thinke that the holye water wherewith we sprinkle the Sepulchers and Churchyards doth descend into Purgatory for to quench and put out the fire For when the priest maketh his Asperges in the Masse and in casting the holy water vppon the people if he doe sée any that putteth not off his cappe or bonet for to receiue that holy coniured and charmed water he cryeth out vppon him and calleth him Lutherian and Hereticke Neuerthelesse if their holy water had such strength to penetrate and goe thorow into Purgatory it is meruayle if it cannot aswell pearce and goe thorow a cappe or bonet without putting it of the head Thomas From whence thinke you that that manner to sprinkle the Scpulchers with water did first come Hillarius Truly I know not excepte it be done in stéede that as the Panims after the burninge did sprinkle with water all those that were there present for to purifie them from the pollution and filth that they might receiue in approching nigh the dead with which they did thinke themselues defiled And in stéede that the Panims did purifie those that be alyue our Priestes will purifie those that bée dead and when they are vppon the earthe and vnder the earthe Or peraduenture that custome first came or tooke his beginninge for that the Panims did decke and beautifie their Sepulchers with goodly flowers Afterwards they sprinkeled them with water to make them continue the longer fresh and swéete The which is vsed at this day in the country of Bigore in the Citie of Bagnieres hard by the hills Pyrenes And amonge some other Christians aswel in Almaigne as in other countryes who doe put hats or garlands of flowers eyther of Baye or of Iuye within the béere vnder the body of the dead bicause they should kéepe a long time their verdure and swéetnesse But bicause peraduenture you may desire the witnesse of all these things which I haue now declared vnto you of the Panims I would y you should heare theÌ„ speake themselues as already before we haue done it translating word for woorde their Latine verse into Englishe rime to the end that they may kéepe the better their stile Marke well then the Prince and chiefe of the Poets touching the cryes and lamentations that they make after the dead speaking after this manner of the burying of Polidorus And holy bloud in basins brought we poure and last of all We shright and on his soule our last with great cryes out wee call And as touching the effusion of the wine the sprincklyng of the water and of flowers the which he hath comprised altogether marke what he sayth at the funeralls of Misenus â—Hen falne his sinders were and longer blase did not endure His reliques remaine of dust with wines they washed pure Then Choryney his bones in brasen coffin bright did close And sprinklyng vvater pure about his mates three times he goes And drops of sacred devv with Olyue palmes on them did shake And compasse blest them all and sentence last he sadly spake To fields of ioy thy soule and endelesse rest we doe betake And in an other place speaking of the Anniuersary that Aeneas did for his father Anchises sayth â—E from the counsel came with thousaÌ„ds thick in mightie throÌ„g Vnto his fathers tom be in mids of all his Princes strong Two bowles of blessed vvine in solemn guise he cast on grouÌ„d And milke in basins tvvayne about the tombe he poured round And tvvayne of sacred bloud then all the graue he spred layd With flovvres of purple hevves and thus at last
that they denoured Iacob and his people as a morsell of bread Thomas The places doe declare inough of themselues For he complaineth that his enemies are come into his enheritage and haue destroyed his people which is signified by Iacob of whom did procéede come the twelue tribes of Israel That is a manner of speaking common in all tongues Euen so doe we saye that a man is burned when his house is burned also wée do call the great théeues couetous persons tyrantes rauishers and vsurers the consumers and deuourers of the poore people widowes and Fatherlesse children not that they ease and deuoure mans flesh but bicause they destroy and deuoure their substaunce and many times cause them to dye for very pouertie and lacke Hillarius You haue alredy concluded y which I would haue concluded We cannot denie but that the Priests and Moonkes doe deuoure all the substance of the poore Christian people which is the true heritage of God and the true Iacob whome they haue consumed wasted and deuoured more cruelly then the Babilonians did vnto the Israelites For to make you better to vnderstande the effect sumine of our disputation I will comprehend it in a little sillogysme and playne conclusion Whosoeuer eateth the poore eateth the body of Christ The Priestes doe eate the poore wherefore it followeth infallibly that they eate the body of Iesus Christ The sillogisme is good for it is in his inode and dialecticall and logicall figure It néedeth no more for to proue the premisses and the Antecedent For you haue already graunted it vnto me by your aunsweres You doe then sée now friend Eusebius that I am not an heretick noither after God nor after the Pope For I doe confesse y true and spirituall manducation of the body of Iesus Christ the very papisticall manducation which is more truer then it is in the bookes of your Doctors I doe then thinck that you ought to content your selues with vs that the Pope ought not to pursue vs to the fire to such cruell death for that Article For I beléeue y there is none of all those whō you doe condemne for hereticks who are not ready to confesse as muche as I. And if you will compell them further me thinckes you doe them wronge For what can they confesse any more without speakinge againste the truth Nowe it resteth that I doe proue howe they doe eat the skinne and breake the bones for to haue the marrowe Wherefore I will take for my warrant and aduocate in this cause chiefly Michea amonge the Prophetes who speakinge both of them and of their like accuseth them after this manner sayinge Ye hate the good and loue the euill ye plucke off mens skinnes and fleshe from their bones ye eate the fleshe of my people and flaye off their skinne ye breake their bones ye choppe them in péeces as it were into a Cauldron and as flesh into a Pot. And as concerning the Prophetes that deceiue my people thus the Lorde saith againste them When they haue anye thinge to bite vpon then they preache that all shall bée well But if a man putte not some thinge into they re mouthes they preache of warre against him I doe neuer read those wordes of Micheah consideringe the auarice and rapacite of our false teachers and shepheards who doe feede themselues not the Lordes flocke but that mée thinckes I sée before mine eyes that greate and hidious Cerberus the dogge and porter of Hell with his thrée heades whiche hée hath for to deuoure eate and swallowe vp all that commeth vnto hym if one doe not cast a sop into his mouth euen as Aeneas and Sibyle did accordinge to Virgiles discription who hathe sette out his rage and vnsatiable madnesse speakinge after this sort There Cerberus infernall hound with throates vvide open three Doth havvle vvith barking noise at Lymbo mouth full huge to see Whose neck vvhen Sibly savve vvith startling snakes to swelling fixt A sop of bread vvith sleepy seedes and Honny sweete commixt Against his throat she threw he gaping wide his threefolde iawes All hungry caught that gub couching straite with stretched paws He bowed his boistrous backe and on the ground himselfe he spred Encombring all the caue and groueling lay with slombry head We haue a great number of such dogs who although they are mute for to preach the word of God for to crye against the abuses vices and offences for to chase and driue away the Wolues from the folde to defend the shéepe neuerthelesse are not mute but great cryers against the true seruaunts of God who cease not to barke bite deuoure except for to haue them quiet one do cast them some bone or sop in their mouth Now thincke if that infernall monster mad dog who hath but thrée heads and one belly be so hungry and insatiable what ought we to estéeme of so many Cerberus and of so many gluttons who haue so many heads bellies which are as the great goulfes of the sea It is not then without cause that y prophets comparing such shepherds to those great masties dumme dogs shamelesse idle knaues and insatiable vnto Lyons rauening Wolues who haue eaten nothing vntil Euening who do flay the skinne eat the flesh afterwards doe breake the hones and cast them into the pot for to eate and deuoure them and yet cannot bée satisfied and filled Wherefore I cannot beléeue but that Salomon by the spirite of GOD hath foreséene and spake of that generation and that hée minded to paynte it out vnto vs when he sayde There are a people whose téeth are swoordes and wyth their chaffe bones they consume deuoure the simple of the earth and the poore from amonge men The Horseléech hath two daughters the one is called fetche hether and the other bringe hether Theophilus Hée sayeth not wythout cause that shée hath two daughters For shée hath two throates and draweth the bloude from one side to the other But I am not abashed but of that that when hée nombreth the thinges that are not satisfied he hath also added those which are the most insatiable of all He sayth that there be thrée things that are neuer satisfied and the fourth sayth neuer hoe That is to saye hell a womans wombe and the earth hathe neuer water inoughe as for fire it sayth neuer hoe One may very well adde to these for the fift Hillarius It is no néede For among these foure they are alredy conteined in two for fault of one Hath not Salomon spoken of the fire who neuer saith hoe For one cannot finde so much as it consumeth There was neuer fire that molted and consumed so much goods as the fire of their Purgatory of their kitchin which is of y same nature Againe is not y hell comprised among those insatiable things May wée not well speake that
they cannot agrée together and it is impossible that the one can endure continue with the other sith that the one purgeth without money through the onely grace of God and the other is an insatiable goulfe which melteth consumeth all the golde siluer of the world neither purgeth it the sinnes but maketh all those guiltie of hell fire that séeke in it their purgation Hillarius I doe compte him to be foolish mad that had rather consume and wast all his substaunce for to buy hell then to receiue Paradise fréely which shal cost him nothing Thomas In hearinge you speake I am greatly estonied to see how men haue chaunged their nature For they do all willingly runne to the best chepe there is none but bad rather receiue good merchaundise if it coste nothinge then to buy the bad very deere or poyson for to kill in steede of bread which ought to nourish which shall be presented and offered vnto him without money Theophilus And yet neuerthelesse wée doe sée the same put in practise euery day wherein we may well know how God hath taken away the sences and vnderstanding of men who doe take such great pleasure to destroy themselues and to lose both their bodies soules and goodes For they are mad to runne after the priests for to buy death and refuse life which is presented vnto thē fréely and thanckfully by Iesus Christ Hillarius I beléeue it well behold the cause wherefore al these collyars and kitchin men who doe liue vpon that fire haue endcuoured themselues as much as lyeth in them to quench out altogether the fire of the gospel of Iesus Christ which quencheth putteth out theirs bicause that it is more vehement and more violent and consumeth it into Asshes Thomas Is it then true that it is quenched euen as you say and that there remaineth nothing whole Theophilus There remaineth yet some chamber or cabine which are not yet all burned But sithence that once the fire of Iesus Christ hath begun there to kindle it will not cease vntill such time as it hath consumed it all into Asshes for that is a fire which none can quench Hillarius I do much meruaile that they doe not all runne for water to cast vpon it Whereto serueth their holy water wherefore doe they not no we make it to shew his vertues as well as against the lightninges tempestes when they coniure them Theophilus They do cleane contrary For euery one runneth to the fire to the fagots to the brimstone to the lights to the bellowes for to make it the more to burne And they are so hot after it that there is neyther King Prince Lord Bourgis Merchaunt or Labourer whom they do not prouoke to blow their fire to cast on fagots in such sort that it is become so great that men doo sée in many places that it is like to consume those that bée aliue Thomas Can they quench it by that meanes Theophilus You are not deceiued hath the fire of men vsed to quench the fire of God No but they doe kindle it dayly more and more Hillarius I know the cause wherefore they doe it They do greatly feare least those Lutherians and heretickes should not be dampned and that they should not go into hell sith that they denie the Purgatory and that they will not enter therefore they woulde make them to féele it in this world and to purge them from their sinnes to put them in Paradise against their wils They doe well declare thereby that they differ from the Persians who will not burne the dead bodyes as the Greekes Latines do bicause they hold the fire as a God and they thinck that it séemeth that it was much vnséemely for his maiestie to defile himselfe with dead bodies and to nourish him with flesh But these héere do giue him none other meat but do sacrifice to him men as the Idolatres dyd God Moloch Pluto Saturnus and dyd nourishe them wyth mans fleshe But one maye replye vnto mée and saye that they dyd vnto him that honour to nourishe hym wyth lyue flesh Theophilus I am not so much amazed to sée them doo that as I am to sée how they make the princes lords their hangmen putting into their hands those whom they would haue to be executed Hillarius They shewe themselues to bée the successors of those who sayde vnto Pylate speaking of Iesus Christe we haue a lawe and by our lawe he ought to dye But it is not lawfull for vs to put any man to death And therefore they praye ayde of the seculer power the whiche men dare not refuse I doe thincke that many Princes Lordes doe feare least it happen vnto them as it happened vnto Nicanor the preuost of Alexander against the Bactrianians The Hircanians and Bactrianians did vsually giue vnto the dogges those that were very olde and did thincke it to be the best burying For that cause the common people nourished vp common dogs for that purpose and the riche men tame and demesticall dogges for to serue them for that purpose And therefore they called them in their language the dogges of Sepulchres or graue dogges Then when Nicanor was come vnto the Bactrianians hée endeuoured himselfe to reforme and correct that vile custome and execrable crime But he could neuer take order to reforme it but to the contrary as witnesseth sainct Hierome they did rise againste him in such sort that he had almost lost his kingdome Now if we will consider the thinges and way them well what are in these daies our Priests and Moonkes who do liue vpon carrion as the dogs of the Sepulchres doo For that cause I thincke that Rosset the Poet of Sauoy called the dogges the Chanons of mount Faucon as I haue heard him oftentimes say in his lessons Sith thē they haue vsed to eat mans flesh it is no meruaile though men do feare them that they féede them deintely as they doe in Hircania For there is not almost any great house but hath his domestical dogs besides those that are kept fed commonly in euery towne village Theophilus I doe much doubt that the same that they are afraide off will happen vnto them sith the they wil set no good order according to the power that God hath giuen vnto them I do greatly feare that in the ende those dogs wil dououre thē altogether For they haue already wel begun Hillarius Me thincks that they take the Pope for Moloch Pluto or Saturne whō men cannot appaise without sacrificing vnto them men The Pope woulde bée called our holy father but that is such a father as Saturne was who did eat his owne children if the Poets haue not lyed but yet Rea his wife hid them from him and kept them the he should not eate them But the court of Rome the papisticall Church who would be called our holy mother Church doth
eate them as well as our holy father and in stéede to hide them from him she séeketh euery where for to deuoure thē with him Wherfore we may very well giue credit to the Poets accompt them as Prophetes herein For me thincks that they haue truely prophesied and figured 〈◊〉 those Gods which we haue I would that the Princes would better aduise themselues in their doings and that they doe not vnto the Pope as Augustus Caesar did vnto Iulius vnto whom he sacrificed thrée hundreth men before his Alter the ninth of March of those that yéelded themselues Thomas I know not what to say of your matters and am much abashed that Eusebius holdeth his peace all this while without speaking any woorde that he taketh not the quarell in hande the matter in earnest for to defend the holy mother the church to which he beareth so great zeale How much doth purgatory cost thée euery yere Eusebius Eusebius I will not make thée accompt nor I wil not haue the trumpet blowen when I do any good déede Thomas I will tell thée the cause it that be true that they say you and I haue lost much money our matter fareth very euill Wherefore me thinckes you shoulde answere something and alledge some reason against that the they say or otherwise me thinckes you wil be vāquished that you do proue all that which you haue heard of them Eusebius What reason will you that I alledge vnto people without reason It maketh me to tremble to heare their blasphemies and I doe meruaile how God can suffer them insomuch that in hearing them me thinckes that the earth should open hir mouthe and swallowe them vp A lyttle thing would haue made me to haue gene away and I am amazed how I could heare it so long Theophilus Haue you found our matters so out of reason Eusebius But what reason is there to mocke so wyth God with our holy mother the Church I do greatly feare that God will not giue you grace to go from hence into purgatory But that he wil send you into hell that you shal be of the number of those vnto whom Iesus Christ will saye Goe ye cursed into euerlasting fire For I wel know by your owne words that you do smell of the brimstone and fagots and that you are rancke heretickes I doubt not but the there hath ben a great many burned that haue ben honester men then you are Hillarius Nor I also doubt it she cannot denie but that the tyrants haue burned many holy Martyres for the Gospel of Iesus Christ doe yet still vnto this day a great many honester men then we For if they had not bene good honest men they would not haue by their bloud sealed the witnesse of the truth Thomas I do wel perceiue that Eusebius wil leape by and by vpon the Asse and will be in a rage if men do vere him much Eusebius Who would not be in a rage bearing such matters It were inough to make all men aliue in a rage that haue any zeale vnto the holy catholike Church Thomas Forasmuch as thou thinckest that wée are so farre past reason I pray thée to aunswere vnto that which I wil aske thée And if thou haue any good reasō shew it foorth for to draw mée from errour heresie if thou thinkest the I am fallen into any Eusebius I will not dispute nor plead with you but I had rather follow the counsaile of sainct Paul who commaundeth me to reiect him that is an hereticke For it is forbidden to dispute with them And I do wel know that I shall profit nothing but to be peruerted if I were not very strong in my faith For as farre as I can perceiue you are already to obstinate and hardned in your heresies and as saint Paul sayth Euill woords corrupt good manners Theophilus You haue spoken your minde But before that you do condemne vs for heretickes we must be vanquished of heresie And if it should be so that we should fal into any errour heresie yet thou canst not cal vs hereticks except it be knowne vnto thée that we were the authours and inuenters of sects or that we were obstinate and hardned in errour and that through praise arogancie presumption or couetousnesse for some worldly gaine or profit we woulde speake against the truth For according to S. Augustines diffinition such men ought to be taken for heretickes But I beséech God we be not led with such affection And when you shall know perfectly that we are heretickes yet sainct Paul doth not commaund vs to reiect an heretick at the first dash but after once or twice admonition when he sheweth himselfe incorrigible And as yet you haue not admonished nor corrected vs wherfore you cannot lawfully accuse vs neither of obstination nor yet of heresie And to the ende that wée should giue the lesse occasion I am content to heare patiently all that which you will say and beléeue that I shall receyue reason for paiment vpon this condition also that you wyll heare mée talke with me quietly as though you did count me for your Christian brother vntill such time as you haue vanquished me by your reasons that you did fully know my obstination Thomas I would gladly sée Eusebius skirmish with you But in the meane time I would also as gladly heare that some would speake of dinner and to let that skirmish alone till afterward For I do sée the the sunne is already very hye and thincke that we haue forgotten to dine For I haue a stomacke that barketh as the hungry hound which kéepeth me the I cannot forget it Hillarius Thervnto I am thy compalgnion Therfore I finde thy counsaile good I know not how it is with you but with me I haue a good appetite to drinck Eusebius God knoweth that you are yet fasting at this masse For you haue accustomed to fast Hillarius Although I haue broken my fast twice yet you ought not to be abashed although that I am much altered For we haue bene all the day about that fire of Purgatory which hath so altered me that I thincke that all the holy water of the Priestes cannot quench the fire and the thirst which is in my throate Eusebius I dooe beléeue verye well that you loue the wine better then he water that the same is the holy water that you require Hillarius I do also beléeue that you are not much contrary from mine opinion and I do not thinck how good a catholike soeuer you be that you would chaunge with a priest a pinte or quarte of wine for a quarte of his holy water At the leastwise I would not for I doe finde the one better and more profitable then the other I know not how the soules of Purgatory do like of the water but I do like better of the wine And if I must néedes drincke water I had rather
Antipapes of the churche of Iesus Christ true lawful Popes of y of Antichrist y which hath not onely of trepasse but also passed repassed trepassed which neuer shall finde rest For they must firste passe into Purgatory after repasse for to put them out againe to passe all ouer for to put them in the Popes paradise But as slowly as they can when they can gette no more money Wherefore it must needes be y there are lakes ryuers at the least insomuch as y Poets doe declare it sith that we must so much passe and repasse Thomas But how can y fire water agrée together if there are so many riuers deepe waters it seemeth to me y it is great folly to cast y holy water vpoÌ„ y graues vpoÌ„ y dead sith that they haue such slore below with them If I were below in Durgatory within that fire which is so hot burning I would finde the meanes if it were possible to get me neere vnto those riuers would plunge my selfe therein as a Ducke and a Coote Hillarius I would not that the Priests should sing pray for mee that I might be deliuered from y deepe lake for I had rather to be a fish and to dwell therein alwaies Thomas Thou cause be no better at thine ease For thou shalt be alwayes in the fresh water and maist drinck when thon wilt Hillarius That should be a goodly pastime for y drunckardes if those slouds were of wine for those that dwell vpon the mountaines if it were of milke as in the time of Saturne and in the time of the golden Age if the witnesse of the Poets be true But I rather feare that those are not alwaies that as the Poets haue sayd and that one cannot alwaies attribute vnto them their auncient names Although that the Pope raigneth there in stéede of Pluto For the one is called Lethe y is to say obliuion An other Acheron that is to say without Ioy An other Stix that is to say sadnesse An other Cocytus that is to say mourning and lamentation An other Phlegeton that is to saye heate Now what other thing can there be in the Popes Purgatory if it be such as they haue described vnto vs I finde it in nothing to differ from the Poeticall hels Wherfore they doe no great wrong if they do sing Deliuer them from the déepe lake and from the Lyons mouth Syth that that roaring Lyon is there it must of force bée that it is hell But they fayle in this that they haue not directed their prayer vnto the Pope and hys which haue caste the soules therein and holde them there and not vnto Iesus Christ who handeleth not so cruelly those of his faythfull seruauntes But truely those which wyll not drincke of the fountaine ef life of our Sauiour Iesâ—s and of hys goodlye swéete riuers which are more sweeter then either wine or milke are well worthy to drincke of those bile and stincking papisticall Cesterns and to be plunged and drowned in those pits and infernall lakes and to lyue in the yron Age. Eusebius Thou blamest the Sophisters but I neuer sawe a greater Sophister nor greater slaunderer When the Priests doe pray that Iesus Christe woulde delyuer the soules from the déepe lake is it not easie to be vnderstanded that they speake not of a lake full of water but that woorde is taken by translation and comparison for to declare and shew foorth y depth of y miseries in which sinne leadeth the poore sinners Theophilus But hath not Iesus Christ thorow y bloud of his testament deliuered all the true Christians from those broken pits that wyll holde no water euen as he hath brought the children of Israell from the bottome of their captiuitie and misery accordinge to the prophesie of Zachary dost thou thincke that Zachary hath lyed Hillarius Thou doest call me sophister and slaunderer but if thou finde that that I do say so straunge I would gladly knowe of thée out of what floud came the soule which the fishermen of the Byshop Tibaud dyd take in a net in steede of a fish Thomas Truely I now perceiue that thou doest mocke men too plainely Hillarius If I mocke thou must then impute the fault to that great Doctour Barleta of the order of the preaching Fryers who hath written that goodly example in his Sermon that he made of the paines of Purgatorye and sayde moreouer that the fisher men dyd bring that net vnto the Byshop vnto whom the soule cryed Praye for me in thy masses to whom the Byshop demaunded what art thou the soule aunswered I am a soule that haue accomplished héere my penaunce And as soone as he had caused a trentall of Masses to be song for it it was deliuered from hir paines Now what doest thou thincke how was that soule brought thether I can coniecture none otherwise but that it did swim bpon the top of the water as the Troutes Salmons and Eles many otheâ— fishes doo which go against the swéet water and do depart from the sea and lakes for to enter into the riuers For I doubt not but that there is stinckinge mudde myre and durte in those papisticall lakes and that the water is verye muche corrupted salt and bytter wherefore I am not much estonished if that the soules haue such great desire to depart out of those stincking Cesterns for to refresh themselues and to drawe of the water in the sountaines of our sauiour Iesus Christ and in those plesaunt riuers and flouds of that delicious and pleasaunt garden wherein the golden age continueth for euer and of that goodly Paradyse the whiche God hathe planted and in the myddest of which hée hath sette the trée of life for to make vs pertakers of his immortalitie And as for mée whatsoeuer Sophister thou call mée yet I coulde not gyue better solucion to my question nor I knowe not whether in Sorbonne one myght finde a more fitter But leaste thou shouldest not thincke that I doe speake wythout authoritie I wyll alledge vnto thée the wytnesse of the Poets and the same of Cicero who alledgeth that he fauoureth greatly the history of Barleta and the exposition that I haue made vppon the same Marke then the horrible and sharpe verses that those soules which departed from hell did speake as some man hath translated it into our tongue From the infernall lake I came and grisly goulfe of hell Where soules in fire brimstone plungd in endlesse tromeÌ„ts dwell Thus hauing passed Acheron that foule and stincking sloud And eke escaped Gerberus the dog that is so woode Vpon the sharpe rockes creepe I must and doe by penaunce so Till time I haue sulfilde the same in pangs of paine and vvo Thou doest heare the language that the same soule did speake although that Cicero did mocke of those fictions and of such a
heape of fooles who demaunded a forme shape of the soules and did thincke that they did retourne Upon which he saith From thence by his accompt the lake of Auernus is not farre off from whence some do saye that the soules doe come in a blacke shadow after that the gate of Acheron is opened and that from thence came foorth the Images and figures of the dead men with false bloude Notwythstandinge the same they woulde that those Images and visions shoulde speake the which they cannot doe without a tongue mouth and throate or wythout strength figure of lyuer ribs And although they sée nothing by apprehension of vnderstāding they would y those figures of the dead should be represented before their eies Although y Cicero rebuked y opiniō of those yet neuerthelesse they do not accord very euil with y theology of your Doctours Wherefore thou oughtest to coutent thy selfe with my solution or if thou wilt haue a better propound the question in Sorbonne and if the Doctors cannot absolue it let them condemne the bookes of Barleta and of other lyke dreamers forbid the Moonkes to reade their Sermons full of blasphemy rather then the holy Scriptures and the bookes that they iudge to be full of heresies onely bycause that they doo contayne truth and which condemne their abuse Theophilus They will not doe so For the other do cause the water to come better to their mil. Moses witnesseth that Pyson the one of the foure flouds of the terrestryall Paradise bringeth golde with his waues But those will haue nothing to doe with the flouds of Paradise nor of the golde that they bringe which is a great deale more precious then that which they drawe from their internal flouds the which they preferre before those bicause of the greate riches and treasures that they drawe there out Hillarius There is no Prince vpon the earth whiche getteth or draweth so much out of the flouds nor mines as they haue That is none of the golde which Tagus the floud of Portingale bringeth with his sandes Or Pactolus of Lydia Or Ganges of India Or Hebrus of Thracia Or Padus of Italy Or Orcus whiche is in the country of Taurine in Piedmont All the golde that those flouds haue is nothing in comparisō of that that they catch in their internall floudes which cause the whéeles of their Mill to turne about very well In very déede they haue an Orcus which is more fertile in golde then that of Piedmont And the name agréeth with it very well For Orcus signifieth hell from whence those flouds arise whiche cannot ioyne themselues with those flouds of the terrestryall Paradise no more then Eurotos with Peneus that goodly floude of Thessaly which cannot abide nor suffer that the execrable waters of that stincking floud engendred wyth paines and torments should be mingled wyth his siluer flouds But they must swimme aboue him as Oyle and after the he hath carryed him a little he driueth him farre from him Theophilus Those héere would as well mingle the waters of their stincking Cesterns with the water of life But it agréeth not together For Iesus Christe cannot abide nor suffer that but casteth it farre from him Wherfore I doubt verye much that as he hath already kindled his fire which hath burned Purgatory that he will also repulse those riuers and lakes and that he will cause them that they shall not swell ouer as a flud doth his waters for to quench and put out that little fire which shall be there left Hillarius they ought a great deale more to feare that flud then the drowning and ouerflowing of Tiber whiche was like to haue drowned Rome For when it runneth ouer it will carry away both the castle of Sainct Ange the Pope and his Popedome and all the Romish Babilon Wherefore it is no meruaile though they feare those euangelicall waters and endeuour themselues to keepe their filthy internall puddles and infectious and stincking welles For that is all the force and riches of their kingdome The flud Nilus which ouerfloweth the land of Aegypt which maketh their fields fruitful and fat and bringeth vnto them great aboundance and increase of wheate and other corne by the mudde filth fat ground dunge and fatnesse that it bringeth with it is not so fertile nor profitable vnto the Aegyptians which inhabit in the land of Aegypt as vnto vs new Aegyptians Wherefore if the Aegyptians take such paine about their flud Nilus and haue their Nilometres that is to say the mesurers of the flud Nilus which haue the charge to measure it for to know whether it encrease much or little we must not be estonished if those heere doe so trauayle after theirs Thomas Wherefore doe they that Hillarius Bicause that if that Nilus do not encrease but twelue cubytes then they haue the famine in Aegypt bycause that if all their groundes are not watred and moysted through the ouerflowinge of the same those whiche are not couered are as the sande and wyll brynge foorth no fruite For it rayneth not in Summer and all their felicitie and riches dependeth vpon Nilus As Moses declared vnto the Israelites comparinge Aegypt vnto the lande of Canaan If the floud Nilus arise vppe xiif cubites yet there shall be tamishment in Aegypt If it encrease xiiif cubites it bringeth ioye if xv it bringeth assurednesse if it encrease xvf. cubites it bringeth delightes and pleasures For they haue such store and aboundaunce of corue and other goodes that all is plentifull On the contrarye if it encrease aboue measure they cannot sowe bicause that the water tarryeth so longe that the earth wyll not bée drye to bée tylled But when it encreaseth by measure they make greate chéere takynge care for nothinge and therefore they haue those Nilometres whiche measure the hyght and depth of those waters and if they knowe that it aryseth not hygh ynoughe for to water all the earthe they make it to be knowen through out all the Townes and Cyties afterwardes euery one maketh dykes and trenches for to make it the easier to runne all abrode If they knowe to the contrary that it wyll swell and ryse vp to hye and that throughe hys greate aboundaunce of hys waters it wyll let and hynder to sowe and tyll the earth they make greate rampers and walles rounde aboute it for to kéepe it in and to cause it to runne more slowelye Nowe therefore doubte not but that our Aegyptians are as wyse in their generations and that they knowe as well that practise for to prouide and foresee to theire Niles and flouddes whiche cause the water to come to theire Milles from which all their fertilities and ryches do procéede and wyth which they fishe and catche the goulde of which yet neuerthelesse they can neuer be satisfied For they are as a goulfe of the sea in which these ryuers dooe emptie
themselues yet they can neuer fill the sea These are the dikes of their castles Lordships wherin doth consist all their fortresse of which none can approch nigh vnto theÌ„ wythout béeing fore afraide in great daunger of killing drowning For those the wyll approch as enemyes for to assalt them shal finde those flouds altogether â—ull of sulfure fire more whotter burning then the internal floud PhlegetoÌ„ Those which do passe ouer theÌ„ for to yeelde themselues vnto theÌ„ shal finde theÌ„selues more miserable vnhappy For first of al they must passe the floud Lethe which signifieth obliuion bicause that it is necessarye that those which giue themselues vnto them for to drinike of the stincking water of their doctrin traditions forget God his word serue him in vayn Wherfore froÌ„ thece they must come vnto Acheron which causeth all those that passe ouer it to lose all their ioye and myrth For sith that the kingdome of God is righteousnesse peace and ioye in the holy Ghost what peace ioye can those haue who haue forgotten and forsaken God the fountaine of the water of life the sea of all goodnesse for to come drincke of those muddye and stincking welles that wyll holde no water Sith that then in that Acheron one shal lose all ioy mirth they must of necessitie come vnto the other flouddes to wyt Stix which signifteth sorrowfulnesse to Cocytus which signifieth mourning and vnto Phlegeton which signifieth heate and burning For sith that the holy Ghost is called the comforter ioye nor consolation cannot bée but there where hée is and where he hath shed abroade the waters and droppes of his grace And therefore who can haue his conscience which is depriued froÌ„ that comforter but sorrowfull ful of perpetual mourning What greater heat burning can ther be in hel then is in the consciences of those which haue abaÌ„doned Christ for to serue Antechrist for to follow his doctrine traditions For that is a very hell vnto the conscyence and it is not possible that those which are addicted and giuen vnto his seruice can euer be refeshed filled For that Aegypt is not watred nor sprinkled with the dewes flouds of heauen no more then the other Aegypt w the water from heauen in sommer hath nothing in it but these filthinesse puddels the which it doth estéeme more then the goodly faire cleere water it preferreth it selfe vnto the lande of Canaan the whiche yet neuerthelesse Moses estéemed more then that of Aegypt sayinge vnto the Israelites The lande whether thou goest to possesse it is not as the lande of Aegypt whence thou camest out where thou sowedst thy seede And wateredst it with thy féete as a garden of hearbes But the lande whether ye goe ouer to possesse it is a lande of hyls and valleys and drincketh water of the raine of heauen They had rather wyth great trauaile torment themselues after and aboute those marysses and lowe groundes then to attend and receyue the blessing from heauen And therefore they can neuer finde rest nor consolation in their consciences but abide alwayes in doubt perpleritie trouble and anguish Theophilus That is the very same that they desire For Antechriste hath his fishers altogether differinge and contrary vnto those of Iesus Christ who desire not but troubled waters bicause that then their fishing is a great deale better Iesus Christ said vnto his Apostles and Disciples I will make you fishers of men Bicause that hée woulde sende them for to drawe men by the nets and cordes of the preaching of the Gospel out and from the sea of this world and from the goulfes of sinne death and hell for to leade them vnto the port of health safetie and vnto Iesus Christ their Sauiour The other fisher men take fishes for to kill and eat them But these are sent for to retire pluck back men from death vnto life and from the perils and dauÌ„gers of the sea and goulfes of hell for to lead present and bring them all aliue vnto Iesus Christ On the contrarye Antechrist hath his Apostles and fishers not of men but of golde and of siluer or if they do catch men that is after the manner and sorte as the fishers catch the fishes for to kill eate sell them Hillarius If they be not fishers of men they are fishers of soules Wherfore I would couÌ„saile them sith that they know to take them in their nets as fishes that in sléede of their masses vigilles and suffrages they woulde buy fishe lepes nettes and hookes for to catche and fish for soules Theophilus They haue no néede of thy counsaile For they haue bene prouided of such instrumentes longe agone that if it be possible there shal not one soule escape but that it shal be intrapped and caught in their nettes which they haue layd forth on euery side What other thing are all their prayers for the dead their Idoles and ceremonies but bytings Hookes Nettes and engyns for to catche and take men as the Fisshers take the Fisshes or the Spiders the little Flyes with their copwebbes Hillarius Therfore it is very necessarie for them to haue a great many of Nilomitres seruants for to take good héede to their riuers sith the there are so many Fishers whiche haue so many nets engyns For it is to be feared greatly the if their Nile and their bloudy waters of Aegypt should ouerflowe arise and swell to much that it woulde quenche and put out the fire that they kéepe yet in their Purgatory aswell as the ouer great fire that they made there hath burned the walles and chambers that were there and least the same should hinder and let their sowings and reapings in haruest On the contrary if those fluddes decrease and dry vp it is greatly to be feared but that they will bringe dearth and famine for many causes and reasons For merchants nor merchandise cannot come no more vnto them Afterwardes it is to be feared least the Israelites whome they hold in captiuitie in Aegypt shall escape them if God dryeth vp the red Sea for to giue issue and passage vnto his people or least their Babilon should be taken as Cirus and Darius tooke the of the Chaldeans after that they had founde the meanes to turne the riuer Euphrates which entred into the same for to giue free passage vnto their souldiers hoste of men the which they placed within Babilon there where the course of the water was and did take it in the night whilest that the king Balthazer with his Princes curtisans and concubines did banquet make good chere and celebrated the feast of his gods Theophilus They may well repayre theyr dykes and forteaÌ„e themselues asmuch as they can But yet neuerthelesse they shall take them neuer the sooner For it is necessary that
foreshewed that deliuerance which Gregory ought to doe touching the soule of Traianus Theophilus I knowe not what their prophecies are but I neuer in all my lyfe did sée nor heare a thing wherin was lesse reason assurance incerteinly then in that papisticall doctrine For it consisteth but in mane opinions But how do those fables agrée with that that they themselues alledge of Sainct Augustine who by their owne witnesses should say If I did know that my Father were in hell I would pray no more for him then for the diuell Wherefore then haue S. Gregory and S. Machair prayed for the dampned And when the Priestes do pray vnto Iesus Christ that he deliuer the soules least that hel should deuoure them and that they should not fall into the darke and obscure places in what place doe they vnderstande that the soules for whom they make that request ought to bee Sith that they make request that hell do not deuour them they do then vnderstand and meane that they are not in hell But when they admoreouer that they fall not into the darke and tenebrous places they declare therby that they ought to be in a place from which they may not fall Now what is that place Is it Paradise Eusebius No verely For those that are there are alreadye all assured that they shall neuer fall Theophilus No except you are of that opinion that the soules may yet sinne in Paradise as the Angelles and Adam in the terrestriall Paradise and that God did throwe them headlonge into hell as the wicked Angelles or that he dyd driue them out of Paradise as Adam But I beléeue thou art not of that opinion friende Eusebius for thou shouldest speake against all the good auncient Doctours and the doctrine of the catholike Church who doe preferre the worke of mannes redemption to the same of his creation in that that man hath bene so created of God that he could sinne But he hath after such sort redéemed it that his elect can neuer perish nor sinne after they be in Paradise Eusebius It is very true Theophilus In what place then are those soules Thou wylt not saye that they are in the Limbe For according to your owne doctrine that same of the fathers is emptie and as touching the other there goeth none thether but the little children that bée borne dead for whom you doe no more praye then for the dampned For you hope no more that they can come out from thence 〈◊〉 more thē tho dampned can come from hel Wherefore there resteth no more but Purgatory Nowe if those soules are in Purgatorye it muste bée that they haue some solace and some lyght as in Paradise or otherwise wherefore doe they praye that those soules doe not fall into the obscure and darke places if they be there already We will yet come againe vnto my first matter and thou shalt be compelled to confesse that Paradise and Purgatory is all one thing Or that you doe praye for the Saints and Saintes of Paradise and for those which are at rest or at the leastwise that the soules which are already tormented in Purgatory maye yet fall more déeper into hell y darke places And so by that reason they are yet in daunger of dampnation which is contrarye to your own doctrine Hillarius I am greatly estonished friēd Theophilus what reason you can finde out of all reason and what certeintie you search besides the woord of God which is onely certayne What foundation shall you finde in dreames For all that that they saye and do touching the dead and all their doctrine what other thing is it but dreames and lyinges which haue neither spiryte nor iudgement Is not that a Theology altogether come of the Panims for of all those thinges haue they learned any one sillable of Iesus Christ Wherfore I would sith that they will not followe but their owne fantasie the opinions of men and of the Idolaters and that they haue no regarde of the holy Scriptures that they would not at the leastwise onely followe the euyll but also the good that they haue taught Plato that great and worthy Philosopher hath set foorth thrée kindes of righteousnesse The one towardes God an other towardes men and the thirde towards the dead But these heere doo neither regard God nor men the be aliue but haue conuerted all their care vpon the dead not for the loue of them but for the loue of themselues Wherefore you muste not thincke that they haue done this for any zeale of righteousnesse for to render vnto them their duetie Theophilus I desire gladlye that they and all the Christians woulde acquite them in suche sorte that one may say that whiche the Scripture witnesseth of Ruth and of Booz and to gyue vnto them such prayse For it wytnesseth that they haue shewed mercy on the dead But how was it in bestowing their goodes to bury them pompeously and making a greate many of Ceremonyes about their buryall They haue not learned to doe so by the worde of god For as Sainct Augustine sayth also it is written in the decrées themselues and in the Maister of the sentences That all these things to wit the trauaile and labour that they bestowe vpon the funerals the beautifying of their buryall the pompe of the exequics and buryals are more to comfort those that be aliue then for to ayde the dead If the precious and costly buryall profiteth any thing the wicked the vile and contemptible buryall shall hurt the good or if he doe remayne vnburyed That rich man of whom Iesus Christ speaketh off had a great number of seruants and courtisans clothed in purple and sumptuous apparaile who made for him moste excellent funerals and buryed hym very costly to al mens sight But the Ministering of the Angells made a greate deale more noble before the face of the Lorde that of the poore begger whome they carried not to bée buryed But carryed it into Abrahams bosome Beholde the wordes of S. Augustine who declareth vnto vs that we must not dispise the dead bodyes and denie vnto them their buryall for to testifie and witnesse the hope that wée haue of the resurrection and that we should estéeme them no lesse then a ring or a badge which they haue left vnto vs the which we would gladly hide and kepe for the loue of them Also we ought not to thincke that the faythfull can be in nothing of lesse strength and to receiue any hurte before God when they abide vnburyed as it oftentimes chauused as it is written The dead bodyes of thy seruaunts haue they giuen vnto the soules of the Aire to be deuoured and the flesh of thy Saincts vnto the beastes of the land Their bloude haue they shed lyke water on euerye side of Hierusalem and there was no man to bury them But yet neuerthelesse although that those things séeme to be
by those words that the body of man and all that which is in the fleshe and the vices therein is giuen for meate to the Serpent whom they do call Azazell lord of the fleshe and the bloud and Prince of that world saying that he is also called in Leuiticus the Prince of the deserts Sith then that our body is created and made of the slime and dust of the earth and that the earth is giuen for meat vnto the serpent they conclude thereby that our bodies are subiect vnto him and in his power vntill such time as they be sanctified and that the earthly fleshe bee transformed and changed into a spirituall nature And therfore say they that that body hath neede both in his buriall whilest that he is in this earth to be purified sanctified through prayers sacrifices encensements exorcismes coniurations and other ceremonies fit for the same Theophilus Durand in that booke wherein he yeldeth the reason of all the popish ceremonies speaking of the office and burying of the dead allegeth the same reasons and almost nothing differeth from the Iewes and Cabalistes Wherein we may well know that the supersticious christians followe more the Iewish and Cabalisticall doctrine then the Christian and Apostolicall doctrine For Durand himselfe is compelled to confesse that the bodies of the dead are encensed and sprinkled with holy water not to that end that they are purged and deliuered from their sinnes which could not then by such things be defaced put out But to the ende that the wicked spirites and theyr presence should be dryuen away And therefore saith hée that in some places they do put of the the holy water into the tombe or graue with the fire and encense and that the holy water is put there to the eâ—de that the diuell shoulde not come neere for he doth feare it very much Hillarius It hath bene well declared and proued by Fryer Gyles that holy Cordelier vnto whom the diuel appeared so terrible that he could not speake for feare And as the diuell came vppon him and greeued him muche Fryer Giles could not arise but did creepe as well as hee coulde vnto a vessell wherein was holy water wherewith hee sprinkled himselfe and was incontinently deliuered from that feare that the diuell did vnto him Theophilus Behold a good proofe the holy water hath then more vertue and power then Iesus Christe and the faith in him or els that Fryer Gyles had no faith which is the buckler and shield wherewith the Apostle teacheth vs to resist the diuell I do muche meruaile where God hathe commauÌ„ded to driue away the diuell by water and when the true seruants of God haue vsed such weapons aginste the diuell Hillarius At the leastwise they must prouide for him a boate if they would driue him awaye by water Theophilus When the witnes of the scripture faileth it must néedes be that those maisters of ceremonies haue then recourse vnto fables But for to returne againe vnto the reasons of Durand he addeth moreouer that in what soeuer place the christians shal be buried out of the churchyarde they ought to set alwayes a crosse at his head For the diuell doth feare very much that signe dareth not to come nigh the place where he seeth the crosse Hillarius That is bicause that the earth which is out of the church yard is not coniured Wherby it hath not so much vertue And therfore in recoÌ„pence they do ad y crosse for to driue away the diuell Theophilus For y same cause do they also coniure y earth of y churchyard For as they do witnes affirme the diuels haue vsed to get theÌ„ vnto the dead bodies and to exercise their cruelty and vengeaunce against them and inforce themselues to do vnto them at the least wise after that they are dead that whiche they could not do whilest they were aliue Furthermore they say that at the day of iudgement our Lorde Iesus Christe will say vnto them that present themselues vnto him that whiche be aunswered vnto the disciples of the Herodians and Pharises when they asked of him the question of the tribute and that they had shewed vnto him the money and Image of Cesar Euen so will he say vnto those whose is this Image what money is this Then those which shal be marked with the crosse shal be knowen to bee good christian money And Iesus Christ will say that whiche is Cesars that is to say vnto the diuell giue it him that which is vnto God giue it to God. Hillarius I am abashed if the diuell dares carrye away those which haue made vppon them the signe of the materiall crosse especially the priestes and moonks whiche are all hyd and couered with them Are not these goodly reasons and most worthy of such diuines Eusebius Yea those are Godly reasons what will you say to the contrary do ye thinke that soe manye wise men which haue bene in the churche haue not well considered the causes wherefore they ought to do that And that it hath not ben ordeyned without good iust reason Theophilus Thou hast heard them and thou hast also the Iewes Cabalists and Panyms for to be the firste authors of them But those dreames are yet more tollerable and worhty of pardon then those here bycause that hauing the braine full of false opinions and inchauntments they feare least the enchauntors Magitians and especially the coniurers and the diuell with them should abuse their bodies thorow their enchauÌ„tments necromances witchcraft But what excuse or coloure can the christians haue who ought to be assured of their saluation in Iesus Christ as wel for the body as for the soule vsing such ceremonies which I may truly call charmes inchauntements magicall supersticions and purifications and not euangelical For although that the earth hath bene giuen for meate to the serpent and that our bodies are taken of the earth how will God permit and suffer that that olde serpent shall defile those bodyes whiche haue bene the Temple habit ation of his holy ghost And whiche haue bene consecrated vnto him thorow the bloud of his sonne Iesus Christ and sanctified thorow his spirite haue the water and the earth which are bewitched and charmed after the manner as the enchaunters charmers do their exorcisms coniurations and a corruptible and a materiall crosse more vertue then the consecration of our bodies and soules whiche Iesus Christ the great and soueraigne Byshoppe and eternall Priest hath done by his bloud and the liuely water of his holy spirit and the baptisme that we haue receyued in his name And if we as good christians haue borne the crosse with him that is to say the troubles and aduersities of this world in all patience and haue put all our hope and trust in the merite of his death passion reioysing our selues only in his crosse as the holy apostle saith
wee ought not to doubte but that that faithe hath imprinted suche a crosse and such a signe and marke in our hearts and bodies the the diuel dareth not to approch nor come nigh them And if that same is not sufficient there is none other after our death which can serue vs Furthermore sith that God hath giuen vnto vs his Angels for to serue kéepe defend vs let vs not feare that as they haue caâ—ted the soule of Lazarus into Abrahams bosome and haue kepte and defended the body of Moses from the power of the diuell and did striue and fight for it against them but that they wil be also assisting vnto all true faithfull people for to kéepe their bodies soules according to the charge and commission that they haue of God and that God himselfe woulde bury them rather as he hath buried Moses then to suffer that Sathan shoulde haue domination or rule ouer them Wherfore I do greatly feare that the bodies and reliques which the idolatrous christians do worshippe and honour vnder the name and title of the saincts saintes are not the true bodies and reliques of the Saincts and true seruants of God but rather those of some malefactory or wicked man and abhominable before god For it euer any bodyes were lefte vnder the power of the olde Serpent and of the Diuell those be they of whom men haue made Idols which haue ben set vp for relicks for to be adored worshipped which haue bene the occasion among the Christian people of the greatest Idolatry the euer was in the worlde Wherefore it is most lykest to be true that the diuell maketh himselfe to be worshipped and honoured by the bodyes in which he dwelled and of which he was serued during their lyfe then in those whiche haue bene the Temple of the lyuing God and which haue serued to his honour and glory forsaking altogether the diuell and his seruice The Iewes and Cabalysts haue estéemed those purifications and ceremonyes about the dead of which we haue spoken to be necessary to their bodyes bicause that the Magicians and coniurers haue vsed to steale them awaye or to take certayne members from them for to serue for their witchcraftes to make them instruments of the diuell as it appeareth by the witnesse of many auncient writings and historyes Hillarius Lucan declareth it very playnely describing the Witchcraftes and Sorceryes of Erichtho For that same cause the custome was in Thessalia the which hath alwayes had the name to be full of Enchaunters Witches and Coniurers that when any man was dead a certeine Seriaunt or common Heralde cryed with a loude voyce in the open stréete that if there were any man which woulde kéepe a dead body lette him come foorth and bargaine and agrée for the price Thomas Wherefore did they so haue the dead bodyes in Thessaly vsed to run away or whether they were more daungerous then in other countryes Hillarius Thou mayst well knowe that the deade bodyes can no more byte any man and that they are in an euil case for to runne away sith the they must be carryed to be buryed their seete stretched out right before But I thinke that thou hast not forgotten that which we haue spoken of the Panyms how that they doe not bury their dead by and by and the causes wherefore And therefore the Thessalians vsed to keepe their dead al the night vntil the day that they burned their bodies and buried their ashes bicause they had that opinioÌ„ that the sorcerers did come in the night and did byte their faces and dismember them for to serue them for their enchauntements and witchcraftes and for to doe the same they transforme and chaunge them selues into the forme and likenes of what beast they list sometime into the likenes of birdes some time like dogs or myce yea into the likenes of very flyes and afterwards doe flye and come into the houses and enter so subtilly and secretly that none cane perceiue it And when they are entred within they thorowe their enchauntements doe make those that keepe them fall into a slepe afterwards they doe vnto the dead bodies what it pleaseth them For that cause the parents and frinds of the dead did hire kéepers for a péece of money for to watch all the night by the dead bodie without sléeping any thing at all not so much as to winke or to turne their face here and there but to haue theyr eyes alwayes fixed vpon the dead body After that they haue founde out keepers whiche will take vppon them that charge they deliuer the body vnto them in charge hauing witnesses how they haue deliuered it all whole and sound afterwards they shut them into a chamber with the dead body and a lampe full of Oyle for to giue them light vntill the morning and water within vessels And if he that kéepeth it do not take good héede of the body the next day whatsoeuer is wanting or diminished of the dead body that he hath euil and negligently kept hee is bounde to restore and recompence it of his owne proper face Thomas These people were verye fooles to beléeue such follyes Who hath written the same Hillarius A good doctor called Apuleus whiche saith that he hath done that office himselfe Thomas Truely thou hast very well founde it Peraduenture he hath séene the same whilest that he was chaunged into an Asse Hillarius I do confesse that the same is a great dreaming But do not the christians almost the like doe not they also watche the dead bodies with a candle and holy water Are they afrayd that they would runne away or least the Cattes or Mice should come and gnawe the féete and the face of the dead or whether they are afraid of witches and coniurers or that the diuell shoulde carry them away as one hath written of some whose bodies are not yet toune if God hath giuen power vnto the diuels ouer the dead bodies the water candles fire nor incense shall not make them afrayd nor yet the witchecraftes and coniurations except they will say that they do vse charme against charme and that theirs is more stronger then those of the enchauntors Theophilus It is not now néede that they take such paines for to driue awaye the diuels or the socerers from them For their was neuer forcerer coniurer nor enchauntor that abused more vile and shamefully the bodies of men nor to the greater dishonoure of God and hurte of all the Christianitie then the Priestes and Moonks who in steade of the coniuring that is to say diuination by the dead that the Panyms and Infidels haue exercised and vsed they haue set vp erected a necrolatrie that is to say an adoration and worshipping of the dead and the most greatest Idolatrie that euer was vpon the earth And haue made the bodies of men to serue the diuell haue made him to be worshiped
the resurrection For then the habite shall be cleane rotten and I do not beléeue that it shall arise with the body and that those which are dead in the same shall arise agayne clothed in a Cordelier For it shall not be then time to make maskes and daunce the morish There is neyther the habite of Fraunces Dominicke nor of any Moonke whatsoeuer he be nor any thing that man can muent and dreame which can serue vs any thing before the face of that great Iudge of the quicke of the dead no more then the Fig leanes serued Adam for to couer him before him but that hée will sée all our filthinesse and abhominations if they hée not couered and hid with the righteousnes and innocencie of Iesus Christ Wherefore if we will appeare clothed and not naked before his maiestie it must be that he himselfe doe cut out and make the apparayle and habite wherewith we must be clothed as he did make vnto Adam and and Eue. And therfore we must follow the counsaile of the Apostle who exhorteth vs to put off the olde man and to put on not y habite of Fraunces or Dominicke but our Lur Lord Iesus Christ For that is an habite which serueth both to the body and to the soule and which delyuereth from the iudgement of god That is the holy water the lights bells sencings and candells which delyuereth our bodies soules from the power of the serpent whose head he hath broken That is the water of lyfe which rayseth vs vnto eternall lyfe which washeth and maketh cleane our consciences That is the true fire of Purgatorye and furnayce in which the olde Adam is melted and made newe and the newe man purged from all his filthynesse and simes Wherefore I doe giue counsell vnto you all that you take good héede that such treasure be not stollen from you and that you trust not to the good déeds which those that be alyue shall doe for you after that you are dead But that you doe putte your trust in Iesus Christ and declare and shew foorth the vertue and efficacie of your fayth thorow charitie and good workes which doe serue to the glory of God to the edyfiyng of his Church and the vtilytie of our neighbour and that you follow the example of the true seruaunts of God and the doctrine which the holy Ghost by them hath giuen vnto vs not the Gentiles and Panims and the false pyophets seducers which haue altogether turned vpside downe the Christian Religion and haue conuerted it not only into Iewishnes but also into panimrie witchcraft sorcertee Eusebius You haue spoken as it pleaseth you but I must néeds auniswere you For if you dispute plead all alone you may easely winne the victory Hillarius We desire none other thing then to heare thy reasons but wée haue forgotten one of the princiyall poynts For we haue not yet demaunded of Thomas the cause wherfore he would go to saint Patricke the which I desire glady to know Thomas I haue determined with my selfe many times to tel you but I desire to heare first what Eusebius can say agaynst you Wherefore I doe thinke it best that forasmuch as all these dayes there is none of vs which is so greatly occupyed but that wée may giue him the next day for his reuenge to aunswere And after that I haue hearde all you I will declare vnto you y meruaylous fantastes which I haue in my head Hillarius I beléeue that there is none of vs but that he is of that opinion Theophilus In stéede where others doe passe awaye the time in playing and other vayne occupations whereoff commeth no profite I finde it better that we vse such recreations which bring no hurt vnto any man but may much serue and profite vs For in so doing we learne the one the other and doe examine the things together the better to knowe how to render a reason of our Law and Religion besides that we learne some honest recreation together the which is better agreeing with our estate then to remayne idle without doing any thing or in losing the time in beholding foolysh playes and maskes or in banketting and in bestowing great expences yet to the hurte and domame of our bodyes and soules or vnto sléeping and as beastes to giue our selues onely vnto pleasures as many doe And although that all wée may bée occupied in other mens affaires eyther publicke or domesticall which woulde better serue for the pursse and for the perticular gayne profite yet neuertheles one cannot be alwaies attētife in great affaires without hauing some intermission and relaxation of the spirite And wée must not be so couetous after the gayne and the perticular profite that at no time we should haue leasure to speake and falke of the things of God and that thorow honest pleasures and recreations we may not refresh our wits and spirites and prepare them agayne to the great affaires to which God hath called vs all according to the grace that we haue receyued of him Thomas There is nothing more certeyn then that which thou sayst and I would not for a great thing but that I had bene with you and to haue heard that which I haue heard Hillarius Wée shall knowe in the ende what tast thou hast had therein Yet neuerthelesse I doe more feare leaste that Eusebius bée more offended then thou But I trust notwithstandinge that the hope that he hath of the victory will giue him courage and boldnesse to come agayne the more willyngly ¶ A TABLE OF THE PRINCIPALL matters of the first parte of the Dialogues A. ABuses are not yet inough vncouered made knowne fol. 16 Accipe sal sapientae 35. Aduenturers 47. Adams apparell 114. Affectators of languages what affections the Gospel doth permit 67. Alexander the firste inuentiour of holye water 35. Alexandrines 66. Alexander Seuerus Emperour 43. Ambrose and Theodosius 78. Ambition of Alexander 13. Anacharsis 5. Angells the ministers of the faithful 103. Anniuer saries 25. Antipopes and Schisutaticks 88. Apes requisite in the court of Babilon 19. Apes of Iesus Christ 35. Apothegme of Diogenes 60. Applications of Iesus Christ 34 Arithiuettcians and schoole of Arithineticke 42. Aristoxenus 70. The art to learn priests to be sober 39. All artes disciplines the handmaidens of holy letters or bookes 6. Auarice of the Romaines 41. Auernus 90. The authors instituters of funeralls 100. B. Bables of fooles 8. Bay tree 75. Bactrianians and Hireanians 58. Bacchus 33. 13 Babilon taken 93. Bagpipe of Sathau 106. Banner and the crosse 73. Baptisine 41. Baptisines and wasshings of the Iewish people 34. Baptising of bells 73. Bathes 45. Bathing place of the dead 36. Battayle of the diuell agaynst dead bodyes 102. Belles and Images the Priests vicars 71. Bells doe speake all languages 72. Bells to driue away the dwells 73. Bellyes that are shoughtfull 74. Benedictio bladi salis ouerum 42. Benedictio
resurni 42. Benedictio pera baculi 42. Benedictio annuh lecti 42. Benedictio domus nouae 42. Benedictio casulae 42. Benedictio ad omnia 42. Benedictio panis seminum 42. Bewtifie the sepulchers with floures 45. Brernoyes 66. Blasphemy most horrible 105. Blasphemy of the Cordelier 106. The blessings of the Missell the Manuell of the Priests 42. Blondus 47. Bodie and burnall of Moses 103. Bodyes of dead men in steede of the Idolls of the Panims 105. The bones of Christ whole 50. The booke of Iob dedicated to the deade 70. Uile bookes 7. Good bookes despised and forbidden 8. Bookes disceuering abuses 9. Ioyfull Bookes Bookes and talkes that are filthy 9. Latin Bookes 4. French bookes 4. Saint Brandon 95 Burying of the poore in the night 33. Bury one before he is dead 64. Burying of the rich 68. Burying of Pallas 68 Burying of the poore 69. Burying of the Turkes 70 Buryals of Daynts 105. Buryall solde 43. Those dishonour God which do not honestly bury the dead 67. Burying of the Barbarians 66. Burying of an Asse 68. Burying of a Rauen. 69. Butchery of the Priestes 65 Bishop Tibaud 89 Bishops the Priests bawdes 43 C. Calender of the Shepheards fol. 27 The Candell that goeth before 64. Canes sepulehraleâ— 58 Sea Calues 75. Canon of the Masse the Alcoran forbidden to be reade 80. Canonization 78. Canonization of Saynts 31. Capernaites 49. 50. Carnal Gospellers 39. The cause wherefore God doth chastice vs in this world 83. The cause wherefore the Purgatory of Iesus Christ hath bene vnknown 57 Cerberus the Porter of hell 51. Chanong of Mount Faulcon 58. Charâ—bdis 91. Charon the feryman 87. The charitie of the auncient Christians 54. The chasticement of the father tourards the childe 84. Christ and Antechrist 88. The christian all in all 8. The Christian tributarye before hee isborne and after he is dead 41. Churchyarde 67. Cicero and Catilina 7. Cocytus 92. Commemoration of the dead 77. Commemoration of Mortirs 77. Complaynt of a Curate 65. Comparison of the rich man and of Lazarus 98. Comparison of the true Priestes and Phisitians 76 Coniurers 10â— Coniuring 104. Coniure the time 75. Confession 41. Confirmation 41. The confines of hell 23. Consilium Elibertinum 53. Consecration of Iesus Christ 103. Counsell of Demas 13. Counsell to worship the hoste â—1 To beare y crosse of Iesus Christ 103 The croyzatde 54. Cryings of the dampned 26. The crueltie of Pope Clement 43 The crueltie of the Priestes towardes the soules 62. Custome of the Bigordians 45. Custome of Thessalia 103 Custome of the Aegyptians 77. Custome to praise the deade 77. Auncient custome 70 The custome of the deade and the serye money of Charon 45. D. Dayes dedicated vnto the dead 99 Damaâ—cenus 96. Daungerous beggers 55. Darkenesse of the world 1 Dathan and Abiron 57. Daughters of the horfeleach 52 The deade why are they called trespasses 87 Death doth mocke the Priestes 65. Death bought for money 45. Holy deceiuing 9. Decrees and Canons 88 Delyueraunce from hell 95 Demaund tribute of the dead 4â— Demetrians 91. Democritus 20. Depart out of Aegypt 93. Diana the goddesse of the Ephesians 93. Dicearchus 70. The Deitie 38. Difference of smnes and the diuersitie of the estates of the dead 30. Difference betweene to speake euill and to speake the truth 53. The dykes of the fortresses of the Papists 91. Diodorus 77. Diogenes 34. 20. Disguysing of men lyke woeemen 106. Discending into hell in Sycile 24. The discription of the hill Aetna 25. Dispensation for to eate flesh and white meate 43. Disputations of Ciccero 10. To dispute with hereticks 59. Diuells visible 26. The diuell Zazel or Azazel 101 Diuision of the infernal Cosmography 28 Diuersitie of purgations 31 Diuers opinions of the delyueraunce of Traianus 95. The doctrinall of Alexander 6. Doctine Papisticall 95 Doctrine of man mingled with the heauenly doctrine 15. Dodonaeum aes dodonae lebeâ—es 74 The Dormouse 36. Drinke vppon the hyde to came 6â— To driue away the dutell by water 102. To driue away the dwell thorow fastings and prayers 39. The purging drogues of the Panims 33. Dumme Dogges and cryers 5â— E. Eares delyeate and pleasaunt fol. 12. To eate Iesus Christ 49. To eate Iacob 50. To eate the skinne and the bones 51. Aegyptians at this present time 1 Aegypt and Babilon 2. Eloquence Apostolycall and humayn 5. Eloquence without the feare of god 7. Emperours and Popes abolyshing the statutes of their predecessours 88 Epiphanius 74 Epicurians 17. Eridanus 90. Reichtho the Sorcerer 103. Errors of Saul 1. Error touching the honouring and inuocation of Saints 78 Eschines and Demosthenes 7. The estate of the dend 79. Aethna the hill Gibello 24. Eurotos and Peneus 90. Example of Eliseus 34 Example of the Smithes 36 Extreme vnction 42. Excommunication for money 68 Extractors of the fifth essence 22. F. Fable of the Dogge and the Asse 19 Fayned fable vppon the bittory of Lazarus 27 Fable of a Cordelier 102. The Poetical fable of Enceladus and of the Gyaunts 25. Faith. 10. Fall of Angels and of men 97. Fall of Peter 1. Faunes and Satyres 26 Fall of the Soules 101 Fastings praiers of the christians 39. Feast and procession of Cyble 74. Fasting hurtfull vnto those that are subiect to anger 62. Feast of Saynt Fradnces 105 Feasto ot the dead 24. Fâ—â—ldes Eliseas 32. The felicitie of Lyce and their boldnes 105. The fire insatiable 52. Fire and water 88. The fire begon in Purgatorie 82. The celestiall and euangely call fire 56. The true fire of Purgatory 56. The true fire of Purgatory 56. To Ash in troubled water 92. Fishers of Christ and Antechrist 92. Fishers of golde and siluer 92 Fishers forsaken 93. Fishers of soules 92. Flears and manglers of Latine 5. Fleread nouercae tumulum 6. The floud of Christ 91. Floudes of hell their names and interpretaciens 89. Floudes of wine and milke 89. Floudes of Paradise 89 90. The forbidding of Iultan the Apostate 16 The forbiding of bookes 90. Formosus 88. The forchead of the Hypocrites and of the Prophets 18. To forget God. 91. Foundation for the poore 70. Foundation of the faith of transubstantiation 82 Foundations of the praiers for the dead 101 The foole counsell the wise 2. Fountaynes of excessiue cooldenesse and heate 26. Funus â—uneralia 70. The furnayce of Purgatory 55. G. Ganges fol 90. Gaudeamus of the Priests 55 Vnto whom we must giue 54. The Geography of hell 23. The gifte of tongues and languages 4. Gluttony 99. God Pluto 55. God hath not instituted sacrafices nor feastes for the dead 99. The true God and that of the priests 48 Tributary Gods to be solde 54. To doe good whilest we are alyue 98. Gospell publyshed vnto all men 80. Griffins and hell Rauens 26. Gregorianists 79. Greekes and Latins 77. H. The habite and apparell of Christ and of the relygious Christians 106 Harpyes 52. Hebrus 90. Hechelberge 26. Hell and hell
Ringing of belles 68 To ring for the time 75 Rule of the diuine seruice for the dead 63 Ruth and Booz 97 Ruth and Noeâ—â— 100. S. Diuers sacrafices the dead for diuers causes 10â— Sacrafice of Iesus Christ 48 Salt in the baptisute 35. Salt of wisedome â—5 Salt of the worde of God. 35. Salt of the Priests 35. Salting and seasoning of fooles 35 The salutation of the souldier vnto the holy fathers 39 Sampson and Dauid 94. The efficacie strength of Sathan 106 Satiffacion for sinnes 8â— Saturne and Rea. 59. All sauors are good so that money doe come 41. The sclpunder of the Pharises 18. Shepheards feeding themselues â—1 Scotlande and Irelande 27. Sellyng of offices 43. Sellying of the buriall 54. Senna therib 94. Sennacherib Romaine 94. Sepulcher of Iesus Christ 53. Sepulchers infatiable 52. White or paynted sepulchers 52. To sing after the dead 87. Singing of Masses 41. Signification and definition of an heritiche 60. Signification of belles 71. 74. Signification of hell 17. Signification of the deepe lake 89. Signe of the crosse 102 Sillogismus in Darif 51 Simonse and Simoniackes 53. Sinnes of Princes 30. Sinnes of the simple people 30. Sinnes of Princes and Cyronts 29. Siticines 66. Soppe in the throate 51. A soule drawenfrom hell 90 A soule taken in a net 89. To what serueth the washings of soules 36. The spertell of the priests 35. The spertell of Iesus Christ 34. To sprinkle the sepulchers with water 37. The spirite the author of purgatory 29. Stella Clericorum 48. Stephen the sixth 88. Stlgmates 103. Stile of the holy Ghost 18 Stix 9â— The Philosophicall stone 55. Stiffocations 36 Supper 42. T. Tanners of mens skinnes 65. Tannefat of the Priests 64. Temple of God. 49. The cause of the temptacions of y elect 1. Tempus 31 The Poeticall Theologie 24 Thuringie 26. Three differeÌ„ces of sinnes the diuersitie of the payues 31 Tibicines 66 Time of Gregory 96 Time of pestilence 36 The tyrant of tyrants and the pillers of the vsurers 30 Torches and candells at the burialls 33. Torches at the funeralls 70. Troianus delyuered from hell 9â— Tree of lyfe 90. The true science and cloquence 7. Tribute of the brine and of y stewes 41 Tribute of victualls of proces 42 Tribute of get pence and whores 42. Tribute of Moriages 42. Tribute of players 42 The papistical tribute of victualls 42 Tribute of whoores 43 Tributaries of Priests 54. Trophonius denne 27. V. Vealegon arder 51. Valut Canis é Nylo Prouerve 6 The vertue of the truth 30. The vertue of the habite of S. Fraunces 105. Vespiliones 65 Voyatge of Saint Patrickes wells 26. Vino rogum ne respargito 38. Vse holy water at burialls 101 Vow of Herode 81 W. To be in the way 35. Waters of Aegypt 95. Water of tribulation 94. Holy water 34. Holy water vnprofitable 88. To watch the dead 104. The olde woemen that doe keepe the children that be borne dead 44 Weeping of the Crocodile 64. Whoredome 81. Widow askng counsayle of the bells 72. Canon witnesse 24. Too wise or ouer wise 13. Holy woode 75. Idle worde 9. What good workes God requireth for the dead 100 Good works don to the dead by Booz 100 Workes of mercy towards the dead 97. What workes doe follow the dead 85. What workes God requireth of vs and to what ende 83 Workes of Angells and the elect 84. Workes done for vs after we be dead 85 Z. Zazel or Azazel a Diuell 101. FINIS TABVLAE ¶ THE SECOND PART of the Christian disputations By Maister Peter Viret Translated out of French into English by Iohn Brooke of Asshe next Sandwich MATHEVV XV. A. IX ¶ In vaine they worship me teaching doctrines which are nothing but mens precepts MIEVLX VAVLT MOVRIR EÌ„ VERTV QVE VIVRE EN HONCTE ¶ Imprinted at London by Thomas East THE SVMME OF THE third Dialogue IN this thirde Dialogue by reason that Eusebius mainteineth and vpholdeth that the Prayers and Sussrages for the dead are of Gods ordinaunce and of the institution of the auneient Church it is intreated off very amply by Theophilus and Hillarius and shewed out pointe by pointe of what originall and beginning that did first begin by whom it was begun and hath bene augmented as well amonge the Panims as the Iewes and Christians And what hath bene the customes and ceremonies of the one the other as well in their mourning and sorrowing for the dead as in their Anniuersaries Feastes Obsequies for the dead And bicause that there is great conformitie betweene the feastes dedicated vnto the dead as well among the Panims as the papisticall Christians we will declare euidently by conferring the one with the other not onely the agreeing that these feastes haue togother but also that which is amongest many other ceremonyes ioyned with them and depending vpon them The which haue bene borrowed of the Panims by the papisticall Christians or at the least wife the imitation is so cleere and euident that there is none but that he may easely iudge that they proceeded all from one spirite For to manifest and declare then thys same the better and for to make it the playnelyer to bee seene we will declare pointe by pointe the conformityes which are betweene the one and the other touching the diuerse feastes and dayes dedicated vnto the deade and touching the forbiddinge of marriage at certeine times Afterwardes the conformitie of some feastes and Idols of the Panims and Papistes and the feast of the candels and diuers purisications obserued of the one part and of the other And the consecrations of Torches Waxe Waxcandles Salt holy Water Fire Asshes and many other suche diuers matters by the which euory one may easely iudge who hath ben the authour of the popish Ceremonies and what difference there is betweene the auncient Panim Rome and the Romish Church such as it is at this present We doe call this Dialogue Anniuersaries or yeares mindes bicause that it maketh mention of many Ceremonies which yearelye haue bene obserued among the superstitious and Idolaters about the dead as of the straunge Gods. ¶ Now for to enter in the matter Theophilus beginneth after this manner THE THIRD DIALOGVE which is called Anniuersaries or yeares mindes THeophilus I am very glad bicause that you are all come in so good time chiefly of Eusebius For I greatly feared that he was offended with our talke and dysputations that we had yesterday But as farre as I can perceiue not with standing that he be very much rooted in his olde opinions superstitions yet neuer thelsse I know that he differeth much from a heape of obstinate and wilfull fooles which haue no reason at all to defende their cause nor know howe to take any other weapons then opinions and obstinations for to fight against the truth neither know how to finde any other meane to vanquish it and to reuenge themselues thereoff then to hurt and wrong those which do
water or W any thing that one can do to it Therfore it was called inextinguible Hillarius It must be if that be true that it wae artyffcially made or else by magycall Arte. But I thinke that they woulde make as greate an accompt if they had such fire as that same which the Greeks kept in the Temple of Apollo in Arges the which they dyd saye sell from keauen I demaunde of thée friende Theophilus what thinckest thou hathe bene the first cause of that Idolatry Theophilus I cannot perceyue that they haue any other cause but the same whiche hath ingendered all the other Gods amonge the Panyms which haue delfied and called Gods all the creatures of whome men dooe féele ayde and helpe Seeinge then the great poritie whiche is in the fire and the greate vitlytie that men dyd receyue thereby and howe necessarye it was vnto mans lyfe and howe it represented the fires and celestiall lyghfes of the sunne and of other planets and starres whome mey haue also â—olden for Gods bycause of their greate beautie and vtilytie they dyd in lyke manner thincke that they had iust occasion to holde and take the fire for a God whiche they dyd sée to bée of one selfe nature wyth the celestiall fire whiche alwayes moueth and gyueth lyfe vnto all thinges as the soule of them They had yet certeine other occasions in that that the holye Scripture oftentimes compareth God to the fire and calleth hym a consuminge fire and that God appeareth sometime in the lykenesse of fire and that the fire came downe from heauen oftentymes for to consume the sacryfices of the holye Patriarches and Prophetes They had more iust occasion to confirme themselues in that opinion and more goodlyer appearaunce for to allow their religion then the Papistes haue for their Images and Idolls For wée cannot denye but that the fire is a lyuelye Image of God which sheweth foorth and reprosenteth vnto vs it selfe more lyuely then all the Idolls which euer were in the worlde And therefore God woulde appeare in the lykenesse of fire and represent hys gyftes and graces his vertue and power by the same the which he woulde neuer dooe by Idolls and Images and woulde neuer appeare in them nor speake nor doe any vertue or myracles by them but hath lefte the same for the Dyuell who is serued wyth such instrumentes the whiche God hath altogether reiected and cursed and hathe defamed them by defamed tytles calling them filthynesse vanytie lying nothing abhomination and other like names which oftentimes are rehearsed in the bookes of the Prophets Furthermore had not the Chaldeans and Persians good occasion to preferre it aboue all the other For sith that all the other were either of wood and of slone or of golde silver or other mettalles he did melte burne and consume all insomuch that there was not one whiche coulde resist him Hillarius Xerxes hing of Persia declared it very well vnto the Greekes when hée came into Greece wyth so great an army For hée burned all the Temples Idolles and Images of Asia except the same of Diana the Goddesse of the Ephesians bicause of the excellent beautie of the same and for the cunning buylding which was therein that it was compted among the seauen moste chiefest workes which was in the worlde which for their admirable and excessiue beautie building and cunning were called the seauen miracles of the worlde Thomas Wherefore did Xerxes the same Hillarius Bicause that the Persians had no Temples nor Images and dyd thincke that one dyd greate iniurye vnto the maiestie of God which is infinite to chutte and limite him by the worke made with mans hande In lyke manner Plutarch doth write that the Romaines haue bad their Temples wythout Images after that the citie was builded 170. yeares bicause that they were taught by the king Numa that God was an inuisible spirite which neuer was created And notwithstanding that they doe honour the fire vnder the name of the Goddesse Vesta yet neuerthelesse they neuer made Image for to represent the one nor the other but were content to kéepe that holy fire as hath bene sayde and as it appeareth by the witnesse of Ouid saying Within the Temple fire remaind and still vnquencht did lye The fire and Vesta wanted forme to shew their shapes thereby And a little afterwards he sayth By Arte of Syracusia framd there hangeth in the aire A little globe that represents the forme of heauens faire Thomas If the Persians did take the for God they did not altogether without reason if they would not haue locked shut him vp For he doth open the gates although that one would shut him vp knoweth to go out euery way Hillarius The experience hath bene well shewed in the Temple of Diana the Ephesian For notwythstandinge that Xerxes spared it yet neuerthelesse his GOD woulde not spare it thorowe whose ayde Herostratus dyd bringe it to passe who dyd set it on fire and bourned it altogether Thomas Wherefore dyd hée that Hillarius Hée hath confessed hymselfe that hée dyd it for couetousnesse of renowne to that ende that men should speake of hym For hée neuer dyd any vertuous acte whereby hée myght gette a name And therefore hée tooke vppon him to doe such an acte to the ende that the remembraunce of his name shoulde bée eternall amougest men Theophilus Herostratus dyd let the Ephesians well to vnderstande that the fire had more vertue then their Diana Hillarius Thou vnderstandest not the cause and howe the Panims dyd excuse the Goddesse Thou oughtest to vnderstande that the verye same night that Herostratus dyd sette the Temple of Diana on fire Olympias the mother of greate Alexander was in hauayle wyth child bicause that Diana was gone thether for to helpe hir trauaile to bringe foorth Alexander shée coulde not defende hir Temple For thou doest very well know that woemen dyd call vppon hir in their trauayle And therefore shée béeinge absent and busied aboute Olympias and hir sonne Alexander shée coulde not helpe hir Temple nor resist the God of the Persians no more then the Gods of our Priestes can at this daye resist it For that cause the Chaldeans dyd meruaylously beast themselues against all other Patyons sayinge that there were none that had suche a God as theirs which consumeth all other Yet neuerthelesss if the tale or historye bée true whiche Suidas dyd tell of a Prieste of Canopus hée played or shewed them a fine feate of whome hée hath written that the Priest of god Canopus which was adored and worshipped of some in Aegypt seeing the arrogancie and pride of the Chaldeans fearing also to loose his good théere and fare if the maiesty of his God were diminished deuised this crafte and discepte In Aegypt they vsed to make waterpottes of earth hauing many holes for to distill the water and to make it more pure bicause that
the waters of Aegypt are much troubled and full of mudde and slime that Priest did take one of those water pottes and stopped subtilly with ware all the holes thereof afterwardes painted it with diuerse coloures so that one could not perceiue it That béeing done filled it with water afterwards did cut of the head of an olde Image the which hée set vpō that great water pol so cunningly that it was like to his god Canopus After that the Chaldeans came who would proue the power of that fire of their God against the God Canopus The fire thē béeing kindled and Canopus béeing cast into it after that manner and sorte as he was trimmed and apparayled by his Priest Nowe whilest that on either sides men did behold which of those two Gods should haue the victory the wax with whiche the holes were stopped féeling the heat of the fire did beginne to melt the water to droppe out which quēched the fire And so by that meanes Canopus got the victory thorow the craft of the Priest and was iudged worthy of diuine honours Thomas Behold a mery Iest to laught at at Caster Hillarius You laughe at it but the holy fathers do say things which are not so good as that and your preists do make miracles which are not yet so subtile by the which yet neuertheles the poore people are abused But let vs consider a little wherein the Papists differ from the one and the other of whiche we haue spoken off if they haue not the fyre and the water for their gods For what doth signifie the benediction and consecration of the Are which they make vpon Caster euen with their magical ceremonies For at the beginning of diuine seruice all the sice which is in the Temple must be put out Afterwardes they must a newe by striking vppon a stone wyth a péece of stéele or with a Christall set against the sunne Afterwards they must kéepe it not with al kinds of wood but with the branches of the Vine There is here more to doe then in the charmes of the Enchaunters And to what ende do all those sorceries serue Eusebius Now darest thou so to blaspheme and call the diuine seruice Sorcery which was done to represent that the fire of the olde law is put out by the death and passion of Iesus Christe who hath accomplished and fulfilled all the ceremonies of the same and he is the slone the Christall whiche hath bene stroken vppon the side and hath kindled for vs a new fyre of the holy Ghost Hillarius Mée thinkes that the interpretation should be two true if you said that the same signifieth that the Priests go about all that they can to quench the fire of the worde of God which Iesus Christ the light of the world hath brought in the earth for to take in hand a newe and for to make vs in steede of the Purgatorie which is by that bloude of Iesus Christ a newe Iesus Christe and a newe Purgatory in fire to the ende that all at one moment or instant do declare themselues both Iewes and Panims Theophilus It is moste true that God commaunded the Priests of the olde law that the fire of the bournt offring or holocauste should be alwayes kept burning in the Temple But that was to signifie that the fire of Iesus Christ and his offring and sacrifice is eternall and sufficient for to purge all the sinnes of the world and that we ought all to bee pertakers of his crosse tribulations which are signified by the fire in the Scripture and wée ought all to trauaile as much as lieth in vs to kéepe and mainteine that fire of Iesus Christ the euangelicall mynistry and the faith in his death and passion in the Christian Church For asmuch then as Iesus Christ hath perfectly and wholy accomplshed and fulfilled that whiche by that fyre was signified the it must be accompilshed in vs spiritually not in outward appearance what néed haue wee to inuent new ceremonies and new Iewishnes were it not as good to kéepe them to the olde sith that they will play the Iewe with the Iewes Hillarius But which is worse so play the Panim with the Panims of whom their manner of doings approcheth neerer then of the auncient Iewish lawes For as Plutarke witnesseth in Athens Delphos where the Greekes in like manner do kéepe a perpetuall fyre if peraduenture it were put or went out they must kindle a new and very orange taken from the Sunne In like manner also hath Macrobius written that the first day of Marche the Romaines kindled a new fire vpon the aulter of the Goddesse Vesta the which fire muste bee kept by the Mestales the nunues of Vesta alwayes burning in hir Temple like vnto ours at this day Wherevnto agréeth in like manner the witnes of Ouid saying Men say that when the holy fire in temple ceast to burne It was the vse from time to time with new to serue the turne And if it happen that thorow their negligence it be put out they shal be greuosly punished Theophilus One may vanquysh them by their owne confession that they haue not receiued those traditiō of that Apostles For they thēselues confesse that the custome to blesse the Pascall taper and such manner of doings haue bene instituted by Pope Zozme and Theodorus the first Hillarius We must not be abashed though they make great prouision both of Oyle War for to kéepe alwayes that fire in their churches For they haue no greater nor puissanter God then he of whom onely they demaimd aide inuocate and call vpon for to mainteine their Religion all their other Gods. For what other refuge haue they for to fight against the truth and to desende lyings but the Fagots and Fyre Wherefore mee thinkes that they shoulde haue more reason if they followed the example of the Persians who notwithstanding that they condempned those which had temples and Idols yet neuerthelesse they had a custome that the kings sheulde cause the syre to bee caried before them uppon an Norse backe the whiche is called by the Nistoriographers OriMasda that is to saye the holy fire or the sacred syre They also caried it in procession all abouts in the same manner as the Papists did cary the holy hoasten Christs day and as the Pope causeth his God to be caried before him uppon a white ambling nagge to the ende hee maye gee the more at his ease altheugh that hée esticme him selfe more worthy sith that he causeth himselfe to bee carted of men and his God of beastes The pecple also bsed to adore and worshippe that holy fire as they doe at this day the holy hoast And whe they do cary it in procession 365. Priests did go before him to the ende there bee as many in number as there be dayes in the yeare doing the sauie in the honour of the sonne who by his fyre giueth
heare Theophilus I beléeue that that God of the Priestes defendeth hymselfe as well from the fire as hée defendeth himselfe from the myce wormes spiders when they doe eate him and that euen as they lyue of the accidents wythout the substaunce so hath the fyre burned the accidents wythout the substaunce And accordinge to the Philosophy of the scholasticall Diuines agaynst the senâ—ence of Aristotle and of all the olde Philosophers one may easely finde accidents qualities and quantities without substaunce wythout body and subiecte Yet neuerthelesse if they dyd well consider the vertue of the fyre they should be contrained to allowe mine opynion And I woulde to God that they woulde worshyppe the fire which hath the onely vertue to purge sinnes to wytte the same with which Iesus Christ baptised which is the holy Ghost Hillarius I doe also desire that they would worship that water of lyfe the which Iesus Christ hath promysed which is the same holy Ghost But they had rather make the materiall water a God of which wée may lawfully say as wée haue sayde of the fire For if they do make a God of the fire they muste in lyke manner make a Goddesse of the water to the ende they maye haue Gods and Goddesses a Vulcan a Vesta Thetis or Amphittite Leucothea or Naiades Nymphes goddesses of the waters as wel as the Panims had for many times they attribute vnto it as much vertue as to the fire sometimes more For if their water do quench put out y fire of purgatory it hath as much vertue more theÌ„ God Canopus furthermore what dyfference is there betwéene theire Aquaticall Theologye and the same of the Ibolatrous Greekes the which the Romaines haue learned of them euen as the Papistes of the auncient Romaines As wée maye iudge by that whiche Ouid hath wrytten saying Our olde men thought and did beleeue and in that hope did dwell That sinne by purging losed was and so let not to tell Greece was the first this order gaue and therewith did suppose Offenders to be rid from sinne and so let not to glose Theophilus That doctrine shoulde hée good if it referred it selfe to the purgation of our sinnes made or done by Iesus Christ and that it extended vnto his bloud But their thought is altogether otherwise Hillarius They vnderstande that of their purgations of whiche we haue spoken off and chiefly of the water Of which superstition the Panims themselues doe mocke and haue well had the iudgement to know that the same was but vanitie as wee haue already declared by the Apothegine of Diogenes And the verses of Persius a boue alledged pretend to the same as well as those héere of Ouid which I will now rehearse Ah too light credite doe they giue which doe suppose and thincke That that same fault of murther should by water be extinct Eusebius Wée are of an opinion altogether differinge from the same For wée dooe not beleeue that thorow the sprinckling of the holy water the mortall sinnes are put away but onely the veniall sinnes Theophilus They are not then defaced and taken away by the same For the sinnes are not mortall but vnto those whiche sinne vnto death and agaynste the holy Ghost and which perseuer in their sinnes withour dooing repentaunce and running vnto the mercye of god But vnto Gods elect all sinnes are veniall not by their nature but by the grace of Iesus Christ For there is no sinne be it neuer so little which of his nature is not mortall and worthy of eternall death if Iesus Christe make them not veniall and capable of pardon to those which beléeue in hym to whome there is no more condempnation Wherefore I am abaÌ„shed of your Doctors which take so much paines to purge the veniall sinnes And amongest others the sprincklyng of the holy water and that they doe allowe so muche the exorcismes and coniurations namely of Thomas of Aquin whiche yet neuerthelesse doe nothing dyffer from charmes and sorceryes But I am yet more abashed of that Canon so full of blasphemye which is taken of Pope Alexander the fift whome you accompte to bée the firste finder out and inuentour of holy water who sayth after thys manner Wée doe blesse the water sprinckled or myngled wyth salt amonge the people to this ende that all béeing sprinckled therewyth shoulde bée sanctified and puryfied the which thinge wée commaunde all Priestes to doe so For it the asshes of a younge Heyfer béeinge sprinckeled vppon the people doe sanctifie and make them cleane by a stronger reason the water béeinge mingled wyth salte and hallowed wyth diuine praiers doth sanctifie and make them cleane And if the salte béeinge cast in the water by the Prophet Eliseus hath healed and hoplen the barrennesse thereoff howe much more the water béeinge hallowed wyth diuine prayers doth take awaye the sterrilitie of hamayne thynges and sanctyfieth and purgeth the filthinesse and multiplyeth and encreaseth the other goodes and putteth awaye the assaultes of the Diuell and defendeth men from fantasies O Lorde God what greater blasphemye can one heare is not that to tourne all the worde of God vpsyde downe and to ouerthrowe all the vertue of the death and passion of Iesus Christ That which the holy Apostle attributeth vnto the death and bloud of Iesus Christe is it not héere altogether most euidentlye giuen vnto the salte and water For in stéede that the Apostle sayth If the bloude of Dren and of Goats and the asshes of an Heyfer when it was sprinckeled puryfied the vncleane as touching the purifying of the flesh Nowe much more shall the bloud of Christe whiche thorowe the eternall spyrite offered himselfe wythout spotte to GOD purge your consciences from dead woorks for to serue the liuing God In stéede that the Apostle sayth the bloud of Iesus Christ those héere doe put the salt the water But I wyll argue and reason after an other sorte agaynst Alexander If the asshes of an Heyfer and the holy water that they doe make by the ordinaunce and commaundement of God cannot purge the conscience and can scrue but for a certeyne carnall purification for to kéepe certeyne discipline in the Iewish Churche and to prefigurate the true purgation which by the bloud of Iesus Christe ought to be in the Christian Churche but it was necessary that the onely sonne of God shoulde shed out his owne bloud which onely hath that vertue how the salt the salted water coniured by the priests without hauing either law commaundement or promise of God do it better Hillarius I should haue ben greatly ashamed to haue stayed so long vpon those vaine chidish ceremonies but that I did sée that the most wisest and the most greatest Doctors haue bene abused and deceiued are fallen into so many execrable blasphemies Thomas How hath y ben possible If it be so as you say I am greatly abashed how y
could be done Theophilus It hath taken as good effect among the superstitious ChristiaÌ„s as among y panims For euen as the Panims hipocrites haue ben the Apes of the Patirarches Prophets and true seruants of God so haue those bene héere For all that which the Panims dyd dyd séeme to haue some coulour and imitation of the lawe whiche God gaue vnto hys people For that which they sacryficed in the mountaynes that they caused the chylbren to passe thorow the fire sacrificed them vnto Moloch and the wasshings that they had dyd seeme to be taken of the custome of the auncient Patriarches and of the people of Israell after that sorte as the Turkes doe followe them at this daye who doe spende and bestow a great parte of the time aboute such wasshinges and Ceremonies But there is greate difference For although they followe somewhat in outward appearaunce the woorkes of the auncient seruauntes of God yet neuerthelesse they fayle greatlye in that that they doe it wythout the commaundement of God followinge onely their foolishe santasie and opinion And they dooe it not in such fayth to such intent and wyth suche a spyrite as they dyd For they dyd them to render obedyence vnto the commaundement of GOD the whiche was vnto hym a sacrifice more agréeable then the Ceremony which for that ende was ordayned Nowe these héere cannot scriue God by such obedyence sith that they haue no commaundement But they doe offende thorow disobedience despysinge the meanes that he hath commaunded and choosinge others contrary vnto his wyll Furthermore the true Israelites dyd not thinke to bée purified by those outwarde thinges but had regarde onely vnto the bloud of Iesus Christe by them represented And they trusted but onelye in the mercye of god But those â—éere doe attribute the vertue vnto the outwarde woorke and to the creature sayinge that such Ceremonies and Sacraments haue efficacy by the vertue of the woorke done Or if thou louest rather in theire naturall language Ex virtute operis operati Nowe if the Prophetes haue rebuked and condempned the vipocrites who haue put the whole trust of their health and saluation vnto the ceremonies commaunded by the lawe of God and haue reiected and reproued their sacrifices and purifications how much more are our hipocrits to be condemned which do not only make a god of their works but which is worse doe make the same of the woorkes which are nothing at all commaunded of God but altogether condempned Hillarius Wée may rightly compare them vnto those good merchaunts of whom Ouid maketh mencion after this manner Hard by Capena gate there is of Mercury a well Wherein is vertue rare and straunge as cunning folkes doe tell For Merchaunts doe thether repaire with pitcher ready pight And therewithall doe water drawe by vertue of whose might The Laurell branch is dropping wet and all those things that shall By Masters right be set to sale are sprinckled therewithall And after that his head is wet by sprinckling of the bayes Vnto the Gods in wonted wise his prayer thus he sayes Wash off sayth he my periury of those times that are past Wash of my false and fained woords my falsehood now off cast Bycause that they holde and accompt Mercurius for the God of the théeues it semeth vnto them that the one of the théeues wyll easelye absolue the other and that the larcenies periuries and rapines shall be washed away as soone as they shal cast a little water vpon them Wherfore our Papistes knowing that they haue the like God in the earth do the like Theophilus Therefore it is more then néede to crye with Esay Be ye washed Be ye cleane But how Put away the euill from your thoughts before mine eyes saith the Lorde And with Ieremy O Hierusalem wash thine hearte from wickednes And with Iesus Christ Thou blind Pharisie clense first the inside of the Cup and Platter that the outside of them maye bée cleane also Giue almes of that you haue and béehold all thing is cleane vnto you And therefore must wee say with Dauid O purge mée with Isop and I shal be clean wash thou mée and I shal be whiter then Snowe For there is none which can make that holy water but he only who hath put the ministry of his Gospel in his Church which is the true sprinkeling of Isop which thorow the preaching of Iesus Christ crucified sprinkeleth and purgeth with his precious bloud our soules and consciences Hillarius There is nothing truer then that thou sayest as I will yet declare more perticulerly First as touching the purifications sprinklings of water that is already too muche proued of the same is taken that which Ouid writeth of Deucalion and Pirrha his wife willing to enter into the Temple of the Goddesse Themis of whom he speaketh after this manner after the translation of the English Poet. Whose sacred liquor straight they tooke and sprinkled with the same Their heads and clothes and afterward to Themis Chappell came In like manner Ouid rehersing the things which were called Februa bicause that the auncients vsed it in their purgations maketh mention of the woll salt meale and bowghes which they caused to be consecrated for diuers purifications of men beasts and houses the which things the Papists haue almost altogether the like For besides the water and the fire the war and the salt they haue as many holy wolles holy linnen clothes and sacred vestements They haue the holy bread and the bread of Sainct Agathe which hath also great power and the holy bowghs vpon the day of Palme Sunday and of Caster flowers But the Panims do approche neerer to the auncient lawe of Moses in their holy asshes then the Papistes For the Iewes dyd it with a red Cow young and which neuer carryed yoke The Panims dyd theirs with a young Calfe newely taken from his mothers belly the which the most auncientest of the virgins of the Goddesse Vesta as wee may say the mother of the Prioresse burned in that holy fire which was made vpon the aulter of the saide goddesse as it appeareth by these verses of Ouid saying The eldest virgin amoÌ„gst theÌ„ then those calues doth burn with fire To haue the asshes not to seeke when time shall then requite That when the feast of Pales doth approch at hand so fast The people may be pure and cleane when it is on them cast Theophilus I doubt not but that Panish superstition was some thing taken of the imitation of the people of God but that whiche was done by the people of God vnto his honoure and contayninge the misteryes of the redemption was done in Idolatrye and superstition without faith amonge the Panims as it is now amonge the Papistes Hillarius I am of thine opinion But yet neuerthelesse mee thinketh that the Panims haue more shewe and colour for to defend them by the word of
cleane and very proper for to represent the same of the holy Ghost For it washeth purifieth cleanseth and refresheth the hearts and consciences for to comfort them and to make them bring foorth fruite pleasing vnto God in such sort that the water causeth the earth to fructifie renoweth and maketh it fertile washeth away the filthinesse from the body It quencheth and putteth out in lyke manner the fire and heate of wicked carnall concupiscences as the water quencheth out the fire and queÌ„cheth the thirst and alteration of the poore féebled soules refresheth them for euer The seconde cause is that hée would haue opened vnto vs the intelligence and vnderstanding of ceremonies baptismes and purifycations conteyned in the law of Moses of y prophets in like manner by which the holy ghost was promised chiefly by Esay Ezechiel vnto whom he maketh allusion hath had the regard thervnto Therefore he would expound them vnto vs and giue vs to vnderstand that those waters promised of God did signifie none other thing theÌ„ the abouÌ„dance of the holy ghost which ought to be shed foorth vpon all flesh as a riuer and a floud of water whiche watereth and ouerfloweth all the earth The which Sainct Peter witnesseth to haue bene accomplished both in him and in the other Disciples of Iesus Christ the day of Pentecost according to y prophecie of Ioel. And therefore Iesus Christ would as well in that place as in speaking vnto the Samaritane and bidding those which were in the temple to come drinke of those liuing waters vse those manners of speakings And for to declare vnto vs in like manner to what ende he hath instituted the signe of the water in the baptisme And that it is true I doe take Sainct Iohn for a witnesse who expounding the words of his Master saith that he vnderstandeth by those waters y holy Ghost y which the beléeuers ought to receiue Thirdly by that forme of figured speaking be teacheth vs in like manner what the Christian man ought to bée that is regenerated by the holy Ghost setting foorth the water and the winde which are bodyes more subtill thinner cléerer purer then the earth which is an elemeÌ„t more weightier vnpurer thicker and materyall These wordes then doe signifie as much as if hée had sayde that in stéede of that weightie earthlye carnall and corruptible man wée must be regenerated into a newe man heauenlye spirituall and perfect as much differing from this héere whiche is earthly and fallinge as the water and the winde doe differ from the earth And it must be that the same is done by the holy Ghost which is the true water which maketh that purification in vs. Eusebius Thy exposition is not without a fayre shew But ought I therefore the sooner to receyue it then the same of the auncient Doctours who in that place by the water haue vnderstanded the baptisme whiche is giuen by the water and chiefely Saincte Iohn Chrisostome Theophilus I am well content to magnifie with the auncients the Sacraments as much as shall be possible So that thou wilt vnderstande them so as they themselues would they should be vnderstanded For although that I would receiue the exposition of Chrisostome it followeth not therefore that by the same one may conclude the element of the water to be so necessary vnto saluation that without the same man cannot obteine it For wée must consider that when the scripture the auncient Doctors do speake of the sacraments they haue not regarde onely to the outward signe but do staye themselues principally vpon the thing signified by them the which they doe vnderstand properly And therefore following their intellygence we may expounde those wordes after that sence as if Iesus Christ did say hée which shall not wash away his sinnes which shall not receiue truely the holy Ghost and which shall not be receiued into my Church and into my flocke after the manner as I haue ordeyned that hée shoulde doe by the baptisme shall not enter into the kingdome of god It followeth not therefore that he which shall haue héere all the thinges comprised and signified by the baptisme ought to bée reiected and forsaken of God if he lacke but the water But yet the better to content thée I will declare vnto thée euidently that not onely the auncient Doctors but also the scholasticalles and questionaries doe confirme my sentence For the master of the sentences hauing moued the same question which thou hast propouÌ„ded touching those words of Iesus christ aunswered that the same place ought to be vnderstanded of those which may be baptised and doe make none accompt of it or that one may thus expound it he which shall not be regenerate of the water the holy Ghost y is to say of that regeneration which is made by the water the holy Ghost shall not be saued Now y regeneration cannot be made onely by the baptisme but also thorow penance and by the bloud Behold the very wordes of the master of the sentences who vnderstandeth by the bloud the same of the Martyrs which is shed for the witnesse of the truth For your owne doctours perceiuing the absurdities inconueniences which would followe if one would vnderstand that place of Iesus Christ of the exterior baptisme and to take it rigâ—rously haue béene compelled to say that there shoulde be three sortes of baptisme that is to saye of the water of the holy Ghost and of bloud by the whiche diuision they doe confesse openly that there is an other kinde of baptisme then the same of the water by the which man may be saued There is the baptisme of the holy Ghost and of faith which may be without the same of the water Vpon which the maister of the sentences alledgeth Augustine saying Thou doest demaund which is greatest either faith or the water I doubt not but that thou wilt aunswere vnto mée that it is the faith If then that which is least can sanctifie shal not that which is greater do it better to wit the faith of which Iesus Christ hath said he that beléeueth on mée yea though he were dead yet shall he liue Eusebius S. Augustine neuerthelesse concludeth of the words of Iesus Christ that none can come vnto eternall life without the sacrament of baptisme but those which do shead their bloud for the trueth in the Church But which is more he sayth we do not beléeue that any Cathecumenian hath eternall life although that he shall dye in good workes if he be not baptised or martyred You do well knowe that in the auncient Church those which had receiued the Gospell and were not yet baptised were called Cathecumenes bicause that one had instructed them in the faith And following that same matter he saith more ouer We beléeue that there is no way of saluation but for those that are baptised Theophilus I
The which many Theologians doe expounde it of the fire of purgatory by the which the soules must first passe for to be purged before that they can enter into the celestiall rest To which agréeth very well that which saint Paul writeth to the Corinthians saying For other foundation can no man â—ay then that which is layde which is Iesus Christ And if any man bylde vpon this foundacion gold siluer precious stones tymber hay or stubble euery mans worke shall appeare For the day shall declare it and it shal be shewed in fire And the fire shall trie euery mans worke what it is If any mans worke that he hath buylt vpon byde he shall receiue a rewarde If any mannes worke burne be shall suffer losse but he shal be safe himselfe neuerthelesse yet as it were thorowe fire What fire can we here vnderstand then that of purgatory which purgeth wherefore one is sauid by the same The which we cannot vnderstand of y same of hel from which none can be deliuered nor consequently saued What aunswerest thou to that I do here breake a lyttle the order that I had thought to haue kept do leape from the Psalter vnto the Epistles of saint Paul But it is bâ—cause that the matters are like and that the one of the pointes may the better be discussed and opened with the other For we cannot vnderstand that fire thorowe which one goeth and passeth but of the same of which saint Paule speaketh by the which one is saued For none can passe from the same of hell but it kéepeth and holdeth fast all that that commeth to it Declare and expound vnto me these two places and afterwards I will go straite way to the newe Testament and will kéepe order as I haue saide Theophilus As touching the place of the Psalmes it is moste cleare that in that Psalme the Prophete speaketh of the tyrannye and oppression and of the greate afflictions and aduersities which the people of god haue suffered from which God hath deliuered them And the better to comprehend all in a summe the great euills and daungers in which that people hath beene drowned and plunged he speaketh it in the person of him wée are come vnto the fire and water and thou hast ledde vs by them He vseth commonly the comparison of the fire and water bicause that there is nothing which sooner will kill dispatch a man then the fire and water when they haue once power ouer him And therefore they are many times taken in the holy scriptures for the temptations persecutions passions daungers deathes and iudgement of God by the which all is examined proued and tryed as by the fire and water and there is none that can escape if the Lorde do not delyuer and drawe him from it as it is here spoken afterwardes As touching the place of Saint Paul he pretended an other thing then to the fire of Purgatory as it is easie to know by his owne wordes Wherefore I doe make thée thine owne iudge of the cause I demaunde of thee first whether thou art of an opinion that it behoueth that all the holy Prophets Apostles and Martyrs do passe by or thorowe that fire of Purgatory Eusebius Noe. Hillarius Those which alledge that place for to proue the Purgatorie dare not to confesse that For they magnifie and extoll so much the merittes of Saints that they haue made a treasure in their Church of those which they haue of superaboundance the which they do vaunt themselues to distribute vnto others Theophilus Neuertheles the Apostle speaketh in that place of the principallest members of the church to wit of the Prophets Apostles Euangelists Doctors Preachers and consequently of all those which do edifie by their doctrine whom he calleth masons and buylders He saith that euery ones worke shall passe by the fire and that the workeman also shal be examined by the same Wherfore either you shall be constrayned to confesse that that fire cannot be vnderstanded of the same of Purgatorye or that there is neither Saint nor Saintes but is compelled to passe by the same for to proue trye his worke sith that he excepteth none But saith plainly that euery mans shal be tryed by the fire The which thing saint Augustine was not ignorant off but vseth the same reason against those which would mainteine by those words of the Apostle that those which beléeue in Iesus Christ shal be all saued howe wicked a lyfe so euer they haue lyued and buylded vppon the foundation which is Iesus Christ prouided that they had not altogether abandoned and forsaken the foundation He taketh not that fire for that of Purgatory But for the tribulations aduersities and persecutions of this worlde Although that some wil say that the like is done yet in the other world he saith that he will not repunge their opinion the which as he saith may be true But yet neuerthelesse he dareth not to affirme it but expoundeth that fire of the tribulations of this worlde here Theophilacte who almost in all his commentaries hath followed Chrisostome notwithstanding that he is not of the most auncientes and that hée hath written sithence that the church hath beene verye much marred and spoyled and that already that fire of Purgatorye was veâ—ye muche kindeled yet neuerthelesse hée made here no mention at all not of one onely sillable But taketh that fire for the same of Hell saying that the sinner shal be saued that is to say that he shal be reserued whole and entire for to burne in the fire and to be punished perpetually But for to come to the true and more cleare vnderstanding of those wordes Saint Paul meaneth here briesely that all buylding all doctrine and workes buylded and inuented without the word of God shall turne into smoke and vanish away altogether without being able to abide and continue firme notwithstanding that all that shal be builded vppon the true foundation which is Christ who cannot beare vppe any buylding if it be not pure gold siluer pearles and precious stones taken from his worde which is more pure then the gold and siluer fined and tryed seuen times And therefore the Apostle vseth here a metaphore translation and comparison For euen as he compareth the pure doctrine of y gospel to the gold siluer precious stones which cannot be consumed by the fire but are by the same tryed and doe appeare more faire and cleane So he compareth the doctrines dreamed and inuenâ—ed by the braine of man vnto wood hay chaffe and stubble and by good right For euen as those thinges cannot abide the fire but are consumed and perished assone as they féele it so in lyke manner shall mens doctrines perish and cannot abyde and continewe firme when they shall come to the touchstone It happeneth vnto vs oftentimes that we delyte and please our selues in our owne workes and wée thinke that we haue made a
which was there hid in a low place vnder the béere aunswered that he would Wherefore they dyd Baptise him in stéede of the dead Hillarius They had yet more appearance thē our Bishops Priests which baptised the bels Eusebius If those two arguments doe séeme vnto thée weake and feeble I will alldge vnto thée a stronger When S. Paul did write vnto the Philippians that vnto Iesus Christ is giuen a name aboue all names that in the name of Iesus should euery knée boow both of things in heauen things in earth things vnder the earth What vnderstādeth he by those which vnder the earth do boow their knées vnto Iesus Christ That cannot be vnderstanded of the diuels For they haue not accustomed to honour God nor the damned also For their office is rather to blaspheme him It must needes be then that they be in Purgatory which do boow the knée vnto Iesus Christ which do honour him or otherwise the words of S. Paul should not be true Theophilus If by boowing the knée S. Paul did vnderstande the true diuine seruice the true inuocation and the true honour which the elect doo owe vnto God ther should be some reason appearance in the argument But S. Paul by that manner of speaking meaneth none other thing by boowing the knée but that to Iesus Christ is giuen such domination that it is necessary that euery creature bée subiect vnto him and obeye him and acknowledge him to bee Iudge and Lorde the which the good and the elect dowillingly and with a good heart the wicked and reprebate in spite of their téeth But they are neuerthelesse campelled For they cannot resist the vertue and power of Iesus Christ which maketh his enimies his footstoole But the Apostle vseth such manner of speaking for to followe the stile of the Prophetes and to declere vnto vs that which the Lord hath sayde by I say I doe liue sayth the Lord Euery knee shal boowe vnto mee The which the Apostle expoundeth by other woords saying wee shall be all brought before the iudgement scate of Christ Afterwardes hee confirmeth that proposition by the very wordes of the Prophet declaring that all that commeth to one effect For bicause that the good and euill are compelled to render obedience vnto their Lordes and that they doe declare commonly their subiection and humilitie in boowing the knée and dooing reuerence before their Lorde the Scripture vseth such manner of speakinge for to signifie the obedience reuerence and subiection that euery creature must she we towardes god Although that the same may bée done diuerse wayes either by bowing the knées and without bewing the knées For the Angells and the soules can no better boowe their knees then the Diuels sith that all of thē haue no knées which cannot be but to bodies if we doe not vnderstande any otherwise those figures of speaking And therefore there is no inconuenience to vnderstande by those which do boow the knees vnder the earth the Diuels themselues with all the reprobate which shall all appeare before the iudgement seate of Christ and shall be cōpelled to acknowledge him to be their Iudge in great horrour and feare as they haue already shewed by experience in the time that Iesus Christ was yet in his mortall body passible before that he was risen againe For the wicked spirites were constrayned to obey him and to confesse him to be Christ and to pray vnto him Although that it was against their wills saying O Iesu thou sonne of God what haue wee to do with thee Art thou come hether to torment vs before the time be come We know that thou art the holy eue of God And they besought him saying If thou cast vs out suffer vs to goe our way into the herd of swine In the very same manner as they are compelled to entreate beseech Iesus Christ to confesse him so shall they be compelled to boow the knee vnto him And if they did that vnto him whilest that he was yet mortal passible what shal they do now sith that he sitteth immortal glorious at the right hand of God his father And if they doe beséech or pray to Iesus Christ may they not as well boow the knee vnto him In the sence the auncients haue vnderstāded Theophilactus expoūdeth it expresly of the diuels which shal be constrained to giue glory honour vnto Iesus Christ Eusebius If thou hast escaped that place I beleeue that thou shalt not escape so easily of the like written in the Apocalipse where it is sayd And all the creatures which are in heauen and on the earth vnder the earth in the sea and al that are in them heard I saying blessing he nor glory power be vnto him that sitteth vpon the seate and vnto the lambe for euermore Thou canst not héere say but that it is spoken of the true praise of the true honor which is due vnto God the which the diuels nor the reprobate cannot giue vnto him And yet neuertheles it is here said that there be creatures vnder the earth which do giue vnto him that praise which can be none other thē the soules of purgatory Theophilus You do lacke but the leg of a Fly for to build your arguments Doest thou not see that the holy Ghost vseth an enumeration by the which he witnesseth that all creatures in al places do praise their creator Iesus Christ the true lambe by whō all is restored But being not contēted to vse an vniuersal proposition he also woult by enumeratiō of creatures in perticuler conclude that in general bicause that that manner of speaking doth better expresse the thing doth amplifie better the glory of God declaring that there is not an element nor any place where God is not praised and magnified frō the highest part of heauen vnto the bottom of the earth from euery part of the world For as he writeth that the heauens declare the glory of God the firmament sheweth foorth his handy works Also there is not a creature whatsoeuer it bee neither in Heauen nor in the ayre nor in the water nor in the earth nor vnder the earth not so much as an Ant or Pismer neither a worme plant trée nor stone which preacheth not singeth prayseth magnifieth according to his nature in his manner Eusebius How can the mute and dumbe creatures speake being without reason and insensible which haue no sence reason vnderstandinge nor speach It must néedes be that we doe vnderstand that of men Theophilus How can the Angells the blessed soules speake and praise God which haue no mouth as we haue And how can the Firmament the Sunne the Moone and the starres declare and shew foorth the glory of God and declare his vertue and power for they haue no soule nor mouth as men haue Yet they haue neuerthelesse their mouth agréeing
Gospell Man without meanes hovv he vseth the out vvard things The feasts of that Panims contayâ—ned in the feast of Candelâ— mas Purification February Februales Lupereâ—es Serâ— Peâ—â—p â—â—no Februla Felrualâ— Februala Puâ—â—â—cations of vvoemen The vvhips of the Lupele les The 〈◊〉 of luno The robes gowns of the priests doing myracles Meria Fluon â— Durand Ral. dâ—â—â— off it â— Rub. le purif Mars Amburbales Regations Februus pluto Sacratices vnto the infernall gods VVatchings Vigdes for the dead The Cardelmas of Ceres and Preserpma Lactan. de fal religl li. 1. ca. 12. East 4â— Pope â—ergius Rat. Diui. off 7. Rub. de puâ—â— Adouis Theocri 〈◊〉 23. Lue. in det syriaâ— Hiero. tn Eâ—â— c. 8. 〈…〉 〈◊〉 de sal 〈◊〉 li. ca. 21. luke Saty. 8 Thammus Eze. 8. c. 14 Good Friday Easter Allelâ—ya H. 〈◊〉 The God Ris Apul. aluti aur 11 3. The true comme meration of the death of Iesus Christ Floralet Fast 5. Cereales Dishonour to the Virgin Mary Holy candells processions Representacion of the light of the Gospell Esi 40. b. 6. Act 13 g. 47. Act. 13. g. 47. Luc. 2. c 32. Psa 19. c. 9 Torehes of the Chrustans Mat. 5 b. 14 Mat. 15. b. 14. Mat. 2â— b. 16 Te humiliter deprecartur vs has candelas ad vsus omnia salutem animarum corporum sine in terra sine in aquis per inuecationemsancts fur nominis per intereessionem sancta Maria virginis genetricis fily tul cuius bodie sesla denels colimus per preces omnium sanct 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 benedicere sanctificate dig neâ—â— 1. Candells for the health of the soules bodyes Benedie Doms ne Iesu Christe haue creaturam cere supplicanti bus nobis c. Item Benedico te creatura cera in nomine Domini nostri sancte Trio nstntis us sis exterminatio diaboli omnium conterbur nalium esus Charmes The ad iurati of the holy water salte Exercisnius salis Exorciso te creatn salis per De um †vinum per Deum †verum per Deum †sanctum per Deum qui te per Eliseum prophetam in aquam mitti iussit vt sanaresur steulitas aque vt effectâ—ris sale porcizatom in salutem credentiam vt sisommtleas te 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 lulian the Apostate The Temple of Fortune The spâ—â—kings at the entrmg in coming forth on the Temple The sprinklings at the entring in and comming forth of the temple A Priest being stroken A potheme of Diogenes Exorcismus aqua Exerciso te creatura aqua in in nomine Dei patris ¶ omnipotentis in no mine Domini lesu †Christi â—â—â—â— eiusdem domins nostri in virtute Spiritus †sancti vt sias aqua exoressata ad effu gandam onme polestatem mimici ipsum inimicum eradicare explantare valeas cum Angelis suis Apostaticis per virtutem c. Hem. Huic elemento multimodis purificatioâ— nibus prepara to virtute tue bene †dictiones infunde vt ad abijcrendos demones morbosâ— pellendos diuine gratie sumat officium vt quic quid in damib vel in locis sidelum hec vndarespersit careat omnium immuÌ„ dits â— liberat a noxla non illic resideat spiritus pestilens noÌ„ aura corruÌ„pens diseedant omnesinsidie laten tis inimite c. Item vt 〈…〉 〈…〉 The coniuting of the vvater A plaister for all sores The vertue of Iesus Christ Chaunged reserred to the creatures The order and vse of ceremomes chaunged The difference betvveene a good Philosopher a charmer Magician The Sacraments The fire y god of the chaldeâ—s Persiansâ— Hier. Nicol. in Genes 12. d. 27. Tareh Abraham Cal. Rod lec aut li 15. ca. 15 Iosua 24. a. 2 Liui. lt 1. 5 Macro Satur lt t. c. t. 12 plu in Num. ex Camd Ouid. Fast 1 6. Stralâ— li. 9 Plat. in vit Sabâ—nt Cal. aul lec li 15. ca. 14. August de cin Des. lâ— 21. c. 6 Phin. li 1. ca. 1 Idolatry of the sire of the Planets Lue. Flor in Numa Flat de Pbilo dogm VA in Camillo God compared to the fire Deut. 4. d. 24. Hebr. 12. g. 19. Exo. 3. a. 2. Act. 7. d. 31. 3. Reg. 18. f. 33 Rxo. 3. 2. 2. Act. 7. d. 31. Images the instruments of the Diuel The titles of the Images The povver of the fire about the others gods Xetxes The temples burned In Asia Solin ca. 53. Temple of Diana the EphestaÌ„ Act. 19. e. 24 Strab. â—â— 14 Ph. li. 16. c. 41. â—â— 36. ca. 34 The Persians without Temple and Images In Numâ— Dionys Halicar in Numa Ould Fast. â— The temple of Diana burned Gehlia Herostrotus Soli. ca. 53 Couetous of renovvne The natiuitle cf Alexander Olympiss Suiadas in dict Canop God Canopus The crafte and disceite of the Priest of Canopus Cal. Rho. lec aut li. 15. c. 15. The victory of Canopus The fire â—â—ter 〈◊〉 gods of y Papists 〈◊〉 on of the paseall tire Rat d. ui off li 6. Rab de benecer The interpretatioÌ„ of the Benediction of the nevv nee Luc. 12. g. 49. Iohn 1. a 9 8. b. 9. a. 5. ler. 5. d. 14. 23. s 29 The signification of the perpetuall fire of the burnt offring Leuit. 6. b. 13. Heb. 9. c. 11. 10. e. 11. 1. Pet. 4. c. 13 Plutus in Num. Macrob. Satur. li. â— ca. 12 The new fire of the Panims Val. Max. li. 1. cap. 1. The fire of Vesta Plut. in Camillo ouid Fast 6. The Paschall Taper Rat. diui off li. 6. Rab. de den cer Zozmie and Theodorus The most puissaunt god of the Priestes The holy and â—â—ered fire of the Persias â—rs Mark. t. cal Râ—ls lec 〈◊〉 8 aa 2. The holy hoâ—â— The pracction of the serst God and the ho y fir e. The strength of the gold and of Yren Augustin The golde pale The fise made a god Rom. 4. 2. 5 Est 43. b. 11 A true lustory of the Priestes god burned Tevves among the christiaus Exconci Aurel An other history The fire kindeled in the tempâ—e of Vesta Metellus Dyont in Numa Ouid. Fast 6 Palla lium The hand kercheife of Chamber Pli. li. 7. c. 43 Ouid. Fast 3 Ancyla Luil li. 1. Diana of the Ephesians Act. 19. c. 24. Disputacions of the asshes of the hoste The accidens burned Accidens vvith Out substaiuice The trne fire Mat. 3. c. li. Act. 2. 3. â— The gods of the fire and vvater The Aquaticall theology Fast 2. Purgations Fast 2. Veniall sinnes put avvay by vvater Mortall sinnes Mat 12. c. 32 1. Iohn 5. c. 13. Veniall sinnes Rom. 8. a. 1. 4. Sent. dist Tho. par 4. q. 7. ar 2. in Ma 6. Pope Alexan. 5. de consec dist 3. cap. aquam A comparison betvveene theasshet of a Heyfer theâ—roater 4. Reg. 2. d. 21 The bloude of Iesus Heb. 9. d. 13 Leuit. 16. c. 14 The error of y
of good deades Mat. 3. â—â—â— Purgatory the nourse of sinne Good vvorkes Collo 3. d. 22. VVorkes Hipocrites The God of the Hipocrites Friendes of the kitchin Difference betweene the Lâ—â— he Purgatory and hell The hell of the Origenists and Catabaptists Esa. â—â— g. 24 Mat. 25. d. 46 Marâ— 9. 8. 48. Apo. 14. c. â—l The payne of the Limbe The payne of Purgatory Three helles Poena damni poena sensus Leo de viim ser uim sest mort Io. Maio. 4. sent dist 44. q. 1. Barl. serm de poen infer Abrahams bosme Luc. 16. c. 12 Two vvayes onely Mat. 7. b. 13. Luc. 13. c. 24 Marc. 16. c. 16. Luc. 16. f. 26. Gene. 1. 13. 16 Gene. 15. b. 6 Rom. 4. a. â— Gal. 3. 2. 6 Limbus Signification of the Limbe Aene. 2. 4. The lycence of the TheologiaÌ„s Pedlers French The suburbs of hell and of Paradise Lembus lembe Plaut in Marca Bacch Liut li. 8. bel punt 1. ab vng Gene â— d. 23. 1. Pet. 3. d c The Limbe of the Infants Aene. 6. A question of the infants of the Hebrevves dead vvithout circumcision Gene. 17. b. 10. The opinion of Lumbard â—â— sent 4. dist 1. St vero Dist 4. ca. necesserum ca filius â—ka de sacra Vnde versus ex chan de sacram Nullus aborttn us nullâ—â— niss fonte renatus Infra sancta deâ— debet sepelâ—râ— vt an lex Beda Sant 4. dist 1. Sâ— vero Iohn â— a. â— Gene. 17. c. 14 Sent. 4. dist 1. Sâ— vero Rebellion and dispising the coÌ„maundement of God. 〈◊〉 15. d. â—â— Necessitie Geneâ— 17. 2. â— Iulâ— 4. sent Circumcision deferred Iosua 5. 2. 2 Genes 17. 2. 7 Rom. 4. b. 11. Exo. 13. b. 12 Sâ—auation vvith out exteriour sacraments Cornellus Act. 10. f. 44. Honour vnto y sacraments Daniel 9. a Mat. 3. c. 13 The gentiles saued vvithout circumcision Ion. 35. 3. 4 4. Reg. 5. a. d 14 4. Reg. 24. a Iob. 43. Sichemites Genes 34. d. 26 Mat. 12. a 1 Mar. 2. d. 27 Luc. G. a. 5 Iohn 7. c. 22 The question of the TheologiaÌ„s Gers in Flo. de baptis ca de tâ—s na de con dist 4. ca. ad lunina 30. q. 1. The coÌ„dition of he children of the christians 2. Tim. 2. c. 19 Mat. 21. a 9 Mare 11. b. 10. Luc. 19 f 38. Consolation and comfort in Abrahams bosome Luc. 10. f. 25. Rom. 14. c. 17 Iohn 3. a. 5 VVhether baptisme with vvater be necessary to saluation Marc 16. c. 16. Marc. 16. c. c. 16. Saluation and health bound vnto the elements Sent. 4. dist 4. Sunt Saluation vvith ouâ— visible baptisme De ciuit Dei. li. 13. ca. 7 De con dist 4 baptismi De vni bap â—â— 4 li. 4. de bap glo de cons dist 4. bâ—ptismâ— Cypris Baptisme of deâ—â—otion Vnde versus ex Io. chan de sacra Indanâ—â—â—rreus contritus ad â—â— mina templi Si tibi defuerint aqua presbyter moriatur Firmiter in Cristum credeÌ„s saluabitur ille Rom. 10. b. 9 De con dist 4. c. baptismi Sent. 4. dist 4. Valentinian Ambro. de obit Valent. Gene. 25. c. 22 â—ere 1. â— 5 Luâ— 1. f. 64 Rom. 10 Gal. â— c. 15 Ioâ—â—s 6. f. 33 Ansegisus Error of the Bohemians and Morauians The supper giue to infants by Cyprian Origen Iohn 6. f. 5 Aug. li. 21. de cius Dei Error about the Supper Regeneration Exposition of the place of saint Iohn 3 1. Peter 1. d. 23 2. Cor. d. 17 1. Cor. 15. f. 45 Iohn 3. 2. 3 To be borne of vvater 1. Cor. 15. f. 47 Iohn 3. a. 6. To baptise with the holy Ghost and vvith fire Mat. 3 c. 11. Indians The holy ghost is a fire Act. 2. a. 3 Holy Ghost vvater Heb. 6. b. 7 Esa. 44. â— 1 Ezech. 36. g. 33. Act. 2. 2. 1 Ioel. 2. g. 29 Iohn 4. b. 14 7. f. 38 In. Io. ca. 3 hom 24. The stile of the scripture of the auncient Doctors touching the sacraments Sent. 4. dist 4. His autem The exposition of the schoolemen vpon the place of the 3. chapter of Saint â—ohn Three sortes of baptisme De cons dist 4. ca. baptis Glos ss Bap. Sent. 4. dist 4. His autem Aug. de vni bap Iohn â—â— c. 25 Obiection of the necessitie of baptisme Aug. ad Fortunat De cons dist 4. ca. Cathecumenian Cathecumenes Sent. 4. dist 4. q. 1. ca. 10. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aur ope de verâ— contra 〈◊〉 1. pâ—â—ce Sent. 4. dist 4. His autem Solution Saluation vvith ouâ— baptisme Aug. li. de fide ad Pet. in Eccle. do ca. 44. Aug. in leui q. 88. Sent. â— dist â— q. â— cas 10 Baptisme of blâ—â—le The sentence of Saint Angustâ— touching the children that die vvithout baptisme Lâ— de fid ad peâ—re dia. De cons dist 4. ca. Ferâ—missume The Limbe of the young infants destroyed The hangmâ— of inâ—ants Errors about the Sacraments Anabaptists Baptism delaied Chrisâ— in epist. ad Hebr. De cons dist 4. ca. quando To baptise twice in a yere De cons dist 4. Pelagians Original sinne Psa 51. â— 27 Ioâ—n â— 2. â— Signes and figures for the things ligned figured Gal. 3. d 27 The sayth of Simon Act. 8. b. 13. Our Lady of butter 〈◊〉 of vvomen Ministers of Sacraments Mat. â—8 d 18 1. Cor. 14 â— 34 1. Timo. 2. d. 1â— Ecclesiastical offices â— Cor. 14. g. 40 Rom. 10 d. 17 Rom. 14 d 23 Mat. 21 c. 25 Mar 11 d 30 Luc 2â— â— 4 vvomen priestes Martionistes Epiph. Tom. 3. lib. 1. contr Mart. hâ— 42 De cons dist 4. ca. Baptisandi constat Mulâ—er Eâ— conâ— Carâ—◠〈◊〉 30. q. 3. Super quis Vnde versus ex Chans de Sacra Baptizat laicus multer si mors tâ—meatur Est tamen officium solum modo presbyterorum Mortis in periculo sufficit omnis homo Dâ— câ—â—s dist 4. in necesâ—â—tate August contr parmâ— li. 2. câ— 13. The â—ouncel of Africa Câ—nc Carth. 4. Câ—â— 100. The example of Zipphora Exo. 4. f. 25. The examples of the Saincts ought not to be all dravven into a generall consequence The Limbe of the Fathers One onely church and eternall Heb. â—â— c. â— 1. Cor. 10. 23. Difference betvvene the old and nevve Testament 2. Cor. 3. c. 1â— Act. â— â— Difference betvvene the dead vnder the olde and nevve testament The sacrificâ— of Christ is eternall 1. Cor. 5. b. 7 Heb. 13. b. 8 Iohn 8. g. 58 Rom. 8. c. 15 Gal. 4. â— 4 Psal. 90. a. 4. â— Pet. 3. b 8 Christ our suertie Genes 3. c. 15 Genâ—â— 12. â— 15 20. 48 2. Reg. 7 Psal. 40 Psal. 130 Iere. 23. â— 5 â—3 c. 14 〈◊〉 â— â— 47 〈◊〉 of glory in the other lyâ—e Heb. 11. â—â— Apoc. 6. c. 10 A comparison of the lyfe present and of that to come Heb. 6. â— 4 Ioâ—â— 5. Ephe. 4 Pâ—il â— d. 2â— 1. Cor. 13. d. 12 1. Cor. 15 d 28
such as haue not knowen him in this world VVherevpon shal be entreated the place of Saint Peter touching the preaching of Iesus Christ vnto the deade to the spirits that were deteined in prison for the end conclusion of all those matters the funeralles of purgatory shall be celebrated and he shal be buried For that cause this dialogue is called the Requiescant in pace of purgatory For he is deade and buryed THE SIXT DIALOGVE WHICH is called the Requiescant in pace of Purgatorye THOMAS Although friend Eusebius thou hast resisted Theophilus and Hillarie as much as thou canst and that thou hast fought valyantlye yet neuerthelesse thou couldest not so vertuouslye defende thy selfe but that the forewarde the winges and the hornes of thy armye and almost all the whole hoast is discomfyted and ouercome there resteth no more nowe but the arrierewarde If it defende it selfe no valyentlyer and that it bée no better armed then the others thou shalt carry no good newes to the Pope of that combatte and thou shalt giue him no greate occasion to receiue thee among his Capitaines and to reward thée ritchly Eusebius I doe not fight for the Pope but for the trueth It is to me all one who d ee gaine or winne the battaile so that the victorie abideth with the trueth and that Iesus doe raigne in his Church Theophilus I am very glade for the good affection that GOD hath giuen vnto thée and that thou art not like vnto a heape and company of ambicious and glorious men who what so euer euill cause that they haue will neuer confesse them selues ouercome and vanquished but estéeme their glory more dearer then the same of Iesus Christ Eusebius It is verye true that at the beginning I was much offended with your wordes But when I considered that which I haue hearde of you I knewe not well to which side to turne You haue alreadye very much ouercome and fayled me neuerthelesse I haue yet many places of the holye Scriptures which holde me in suspens and leaue me in a greate scruple and doubt in my conscience vntill such time as thou hast shewed me by liuely euident reasons that I must vnderstande them otherwise then they haue béene expounded vnto me or else you shall be constrayned to chaunge your matter and to denye and vnsay all that you haue saide euen vntill this present time Hillarius Propounde them all by order and Theophilus wil addres guyde thée to the true vnderstanding Eusebius For to kéepe the better order I wyll beginne by the olde testament and afterwards will follow the newe after the order by which the bookes of the same are disposed and set alledging out of euery one of them the pointes which may serue to my matters I will put forth vnto thée that which Thoby commaunded his sonne saying Set thy breade and wine vppon the buriall of the righteous But thou wilt aunswere vnto me that that booke is Apocripha or onely Ecclesiasticall and not Canonicall as thou hast already done of the same of the Machabees Theophilus Truely I may aunswere thée so But although it were Canonicall where too would it serue for thy matter Eusebius Very well following the interpretacion of Eccius which expoundeth it of the Almoses for to refresh the poore that they should pray vnto God for the saluation of the deade Theophilus He that woulde followe the exposicions of Eccius there is not a place in the Bible which he hath not corrupted and marred for to make it serue to the popish tyranny In the booke of Thoby in that place there there is no mention made of praying for the dead And although those words preceded thervnto he ought rather to haue saide Set thy breade vppon the buriall of the sinner then vpon that of the righteous For the sinners shal haue more neede of such prayers then the righteous But he saith altogether contrarye For hée addeth eate and drinke not with the sinners and wicked The which is better expressed by the Greeke saying Set thy breade vpon the buriall of the righteous and giue it not vnto sinners Wherefore it is most likest to be true sith that before he hath spoken of Almoses that he recommendeth by those wordes chiefely the righteous and faithfull euen as saint Paul aboue all other recommendeth those of the houshold of faith Nowe there are many manners and wayes to bestowe ones breade and wyne vppon the burialles of the righteous The first is in burying them honestly as Thoby did without sparing that which was there vnto néedefull and requisite For the Hebrewes by the breade wyne and water doe vnderstande all the things necessarie vnto man and vnto mans life The other is when we doe helpe our bretheren succour so their necessities that they dye not for want of vittailes nor goe downe to the graue without being buried If we doe otherwise we kill them when we fâ—â—de them not and that they do dye through our default The thirde is when we comfort thorowe Almoses the children and friendes of the deade Then we shed foorth our breade and wine vpon their burialles behold the holy water that they desire And it is a great deale better to doe after that sort then to playe the glutton with the gluttons drunkerds and wicked But the manner of spech is somewhat obscure bicause that the booke notwithstanding that it was written in Greeke yet neuerthelesse it keepeth the phrases and manners of the Hebrew speach Hillarius He that will then followe the counsell of Thoby must no more banket and feast the Priestes sith that he forbiddeth to giue his breade and wine vnto sinners and the wicked For there is not a people vpon the earth of a more execrable life nor which do more abuse the goods which GOD hath giuen vnto man Amongst whom one may well accompt and number Eccius for one of the principallest Captaines of God Bacchus For he was very angry that day he was not dronken in Wherfore it is no meruaile if he woulde mainteine the spitt and the fryingpan But yet no ueil 〈◊〉 although he and all such as he is would presse and take the words of Thoby by the rigour without admitting any exposition confirmable and agreable to the worde of God it should haue had more colour for to allow the auncient custome which the Panyms had to cary breade vpon the burialls and to powre thereon wine euen as already hath béene spoken then for to proue the bankettes of the priestes and the prayers for the deade Neuerthelesse we are well assured that neither Thoby nor any other holy man but haue had regard not to allow such supersticious Eusebius Let vs leaue of Eccius and the pristes and answere me vnto that which is written in the booke of the Psalmes We haue passed thorowe the fire and water and thou hast drawen vs out and set vs in ioye and comforte Howe vnderstandest thou that place