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A38580 Nor truth, nor error, nor day, nor night, but in the evening there shall be light, Zach. 14. 6, 7 being the relation of a publike discourse in Maries Church at Oxford between Mr. Cheynel and Mr. Erbery January 11, 1646. Erbery, William, 1604-1654.; Cheynell, Francis, 1608-1665. 1647 (1647) Wing E3234; ESTC R26470 19,304 31

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God already but first seek the Lord their God and then the way to Zion that is to know God dwelling in us and our selves the habitation of God for this is Zion Another Prophet points at a time that all the Saints shall be left for many dayes without a King and without a Prince and without a Sacrifice and without an Image and without an Ephod and without a Teraphim that is without all publike Worship or Ministery true or false false they will not and true they cannot have not a King or Prince that is not meant of crowned men or Civil Magistrates but as I conceive an Ecclesiastike or Church Ruler Officer or Minister of Christ to go before them nor yet a Sacrifice or Ephod or any Church Ordinance among them no not the least means of knowledge or enquiry left for an Ephod was the least Ordinance under the Law as all Ordinances under the Gospel are legal also by an Ephod men that were not Ministers or Priests might enquire of the Lord in doubtful cases or in a distress as David did and as men do now a dayes seek by fasting and prayer but this also at last shall be taken from the Saints and they shall fit still in submission and silence waiting for the Lord himself to come and reveal himself to them then they shall return and seek the Lord their God and David their King and fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter dayes that is every Saint is yet running about changing their wayes and gadding abroad after one of these three Men Means and Self But the Saints after they are wearied out with their whoredoms shall return to their first husband to God their Maker of whom they first proceeded and came forth and shall see God in their flesh that is David their King This I have been seeking and by seeking I finde in the Scriptures these seven things taught by the Spirit First That Christ is a mystery Col. 4. 3. Secondly That the mystery is Christ in us the hope of glory Col. 1. 27. Thirdly That the riches of the glory of this mystery was kept secret since the world began hid from ages and generations and not made known to the sons of men Rom. 16. 25. Fourthly That this mystery of Christ in us the hope of glory was manifested by revelation to the Apostles and Prophets and primitive Saints by the Spirit Ephes 3. 3 4. Col. 1. 26. Fifthly That what was manifested to them of the mystery of Christ was onely made known in part then to the Saints yea to the Apostles themselves who as they knew but in part and had the knowledge onely as of children so they knew Christ but as the childe Jesus that is they were not come to the knowledge of the Son of God to a perfect man to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ or full age of Christ that is in the mystery to know the Son of God so in them and themselves in the Son as tall and high in stature as he and taken up in the glory of the Son and with him into God himself For that which was manifested visibly to men in the dayes of his flesh that Christ was made of a woman formed and conceived in a Virgin brought forth and born into the world living in Judea dying in Jerusalem rising and ascending into Heaven all this was the manifestation of the mystery of Christ in us the hope of glory which was a truth from the beginning of the world though not manifested to the Saints before Christ came visibly in flesh yet then even before Christ was in the flesh of the Saints he was all in all Christ the same to day yesterday and for ever formed in them brought forth in them living in them and suffering in their flesh as well as in the Saints afterwards Christ in David was the knowledge and faith of David and Davids faith and knowledge was the knowledge of the Son of God and faith of the Son of God who lived also in David as well as in Paul in whom as Christ was speaking so in David also yea as Christ was all in all Christ onely acting in them doing all their works in them so Christ suffered in them as the Lamb really slain from the foundation of the world In Abel the first beleeving Saint Christ was slain and as Paul said of himself I fill up what is behinde of the sufferings of Christ in my flesh So the Saints who were also from the beginning suffered what was before of the afflictions of Christ in their flesh Thus Christ hath been the onely man of sorrows and is still suffering till he shall rise in us This neither Peter nor Paul had attained to to know Christ risen in them Paul knew in part Christ and him crucified and desired to know also more fully the fellowship of his sufferings yet he knew not this so as those Revel. 12 11. Who overcame by the blood of the Lamb who saw their sufferings to be the sufferings onely of the Son But as for Christ risen in him the resurrection of the dead Paul knew not nor was yet perfect knowing not himself and the Son one perfect man Neither did Peter though he suffered for Christ and Christ in him see the day of Christ or Christ as the day star risen in his heart no this was not to be revealed till the last times When Christ should be so conceived and brought forth of a woman the weakest Saint that the weakest Saint should see not onely Christ in them the hope of glory Christ formed in them brought forth in them living in them dying in them but Christ rising in them and revealing himself so gloriously as if he should say I am the root and the off-spring of David the bright and morning Star I am he who was and is and is to come I was all in all in David before I was his root from whom alone sprang up all that he did said or suffered all Davids fruit and glory rose up from Christ in him and returned to the root to Christ in Davids lowest and most dead estate so Christ is the off-spring also and is also that to the Saints to day as he was to David yesterday their substance strength and song But Christ in the Saints will be as the morning Star and rise in more glory yet when the new heaven and new earth shall be and new Jerusalem shall come down out of heaven that is when God shall dwell with men on earth Sixthly This mystery of Christ in us the hope of glory of God manifest in man● flesh which was manifest and in part made known to the Apostles and primitive Saints before hath been hid again from ages and generations ever since the apostacy and spirit of Antichrist came into the world with power and so hath been kept secret since the Antichrstian world begun and not
Nor Truth nor Error Nor Day nor Night But in the Evening There shall be Light ZACH. 14. 6 7. BEING The Relation of a PUBLIKE DISCOURSE IN Maries Church at OXFORD BETWEEN Mr. Cheynel and Mr. Erbery January 11. 1646. Printed in the Yeer 1647. TO THE READER WHen the little Book was open in the hand of the Angel the Angel cryed as when a Lion roareth and seven thunders uttered their voices c. That is when there was a powerful appearance of the Mystery of Christ when the Mystery of God which before was sealed Revel. 5. but afterwards to be finished and fully manifested began to be opened and that so powerfully even to the terror of the Christian world and of the Churches also for the seven thunders respect the seven Churches that 's all the Christian Churches under Antichristian Apostacy I say when the little Book began to be open John began to write c. that 's our weakness when any light breaks forth in us any new discovery of Truth be made out to us by the teachings of God in us we begin presently to be Teachers of men to write to publish it in Pulpit and Print or in our private Teachings This was Johns weakness also who was therefore commanded to seal those sayings and write them not till he had eaten the Book and better digested that heavenly secret The Mystery of God and of Christ afterward he was to Preach it and Prophesie to Nations Tongues People and Kings This is another Mystery in the next Chapter where that prophesying begins Those two witnesses who prophesie in sackcloth signifie a few Saints who yet make a full witness witnessing Christ in Spirit and against the spirit of Antichrist These are the two Olive trees as having their teachings immediately from God Zach. 4. 11 12. And these are the two Candlesticks the true Church in Spirit for the seven Candlesticks were faln and removed out of their place through the Apostacy but these two witnesses have the Testimony of Jesus which is the Spirit of prophecy Revel. 19. 10. Which Spirit is that fire going out of their mouth devouring their adversaries and that spirit of Antichrist appearing in several forms the Dragon the first beast second beast Babylon the great whore all is but the various appearances of that one spirit of Antichrist in the Christian Church for there Antichrists seat ever was and is set up this day though in a more glorious form which is but the flesh of the whore whose flesh is now fairer and her forms her array more fine in scarlet c. Revel. 16. 4. Yet these two witnesses in sackcloth who were also in former ages these few poor persecuted Saints still stand up burning her flesh with fire and by their prophesying though in silence plague men by shutting Heaven that the rain or waters from above the Teachings of God fall not on their fellowships and turning their waters into blood their formal worships and teachings of men from below into the blood of a dead man Revel. 16. 3 4. And all this those two witnesses do as oft as they will which needs must be none else but Christ in them God in their flesh coming forth in power and Spirit from them plaguing and tormenting them which dwell on earth i. e. earthly Christians and Churches also For this the two witnesses suffer their sufferings being shadowed forth by that sackcloth and bitterness of the Book in their belly yet all this is but the sufferings of their flesh and filth of it as 't were in the belly but yet they suffer with Christ and Christ suffers in them for they are slain where our Lord was crucified that 's spiritually fleshly Jerusalem Christian carnal Churches where spiritual Saints and Christ in Spirit is still slain and crucified but after three dayes and a half that 's a little longer then Christ in flesh lay buried the spirit of life enters into those dead and unburied witnesses who rise with Christ and Christ riseth in them yea they ascend in glory a greater glory at least in the Letter then Christ ascended for none but Disciples and friends were witnesses of his Resurrection and saw him ascend but the ascension of the Saints their very enemies shall behold The sum of all is this That which this man writes he writes not as a clear Truth to publish to the world not to put off his Earth that heap of Heresie and Blasphemy cast upon him by enemies to bury his name and make it rot nay he is content to lie unburied yet to the loathing of his person that the people who dwell on earth may look on rejoyce and glory over his dead C●●cass lying in the streets of the great City 'T is well if Truth shall rise in them that Read Farewell The Relation of a publike Discourse and Dispute at OXFORD January 11. between Mr. Cheynel and Mr. Erbery who spake thus CHristian friends and fellow Souldiers and worthy Schollars also I am your servant I am called this day to come here in publike from my private walkings not by my desire or seeking but as sought out and drawn forth by a twofold cord a publike charge and a private challenge The charge was publikely given out in a Pulpit of Heresie and Blasphemy against me the challenge was privately sent unto me by word and writing also in a Letter from Master Cheynel that I should give him a meeting in the Schools or some meeting place in the University the place appointed is Maries Church where I now present my self to wait on you all and to answer what shall be objected or to desire a satisfactory Answer to this my Quere I am questioned for That which I have in private I also profess in publike whatever I spake was not spoken as a Minister by outward call though twice I was made one nor as a guifted man knowing Christ though once I was accounted some body by others and by my self also but now I am nothing know nothing and let all men know so of me that I can neither see nor speak as Ministers or gifted men should with any clearness in my self or conviction to others but inquiring onely and seeking the Lord our God and David our King This is that condition the Church shall be brought unto into a Wilderness where no path nor company shall be to walk with but being left alone the Saints shall be all set in a seeking way as the Prophets have foretold That about Babylons destructions and their deliverance from thence Judah and Israel those who were a divided Kingdom in Church-fellowships shall come together in one to seek the Lord their God and the way to Zion that i● not the way to Church as the Churches this day are divided about by a confused preposterous way seeking that first which should be last as if they had found the knowledge of the Lord