And in this sense the Gospel-Covenant is made with the whole visible Church being taken without any Synecdoche for every Church-member Otherwise there could be no visible Gospell-Covenant Gospel-Ordinances Gospel-Ministery which must needs take the denomination from the visibilitie of the object and according to this new Tenet would be Utopian and no where Mr. Tombes 9. Section BUt I perceive by Mr. C. words page 30. If the Church in regard of outward administration of Ordinances which is the Question were onely the elect c. That the terms Church and Covenant were so ambiguously used by him that I knew not how to conceive of his meaning and his fast speaking would not permit me deliberately to consider his words and therefore no marvell I desired liberty to explain my self and to enquire into Mr. C. meaning it being impossible for me otherwise to answer appositely and to make the disputation profitable for finding out truth As for that which Mr. C. saith That it was the Question whether the Church in regard of outward administration of Ordinances were onely the elect it doth untruly suggest as if I so conceived who though I hold the Church invisible are the elect onely and that the Gospel Covenant of grace Heb. 8. 10 11 12. is made to them onely yet have still granted that the Church visible consists of others than elect persons and that outward Ordinances may lawfully be administred to them upon their profession of faith in Christ But Mr. C. by confounding those terms To be in Covenant to be subjects of Baptism c. misleads unwary hearers and readers Reply HEre Mr. Tombes like a bad division saltum facit skips over main passages in the dispute that it is needfull to find the end of the thâ—â—ad to guid us in the Meanders of this Labyrinth Then thâ— major proposition by him denyed was thus confiâ—med That which is made to the kâ—â—gdome of God upon earth is not onely made to the elect that which is made to the whole Church visible is made to the kingdome of God upon earth therefore it was not onely made to the elect Here he denyed the former proposition again which was proved thus In the Kingdome oâ— God that is in the Church Militant theâ—e are not onely elect but reprobates Saints but hypocrites for all that are outwardly called are of the kingdom of God in this sense and many are called and few chosen the Kingdome of God is compaâ—ed to a field where there are tares as well as wheat a fold where there are goats as well as sheep To a Noble mans house where there are vessels of dishonour as well as honâ—ur And if the Church in regard of outward administration of Ordinances which is the Question were onely the Elect then it would follow that there were no visible Church upon earth the Jewes had no more visible Church than the Heathens the distinction of the Church visible and â—nvisible were frivolous for no mo man nor Angell knowâ— who are elect nor any but God All this he passes by and gives no answer to it as if it were a Gordian knot and insoluble onely like Aristotle's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ethic l. 4. c. 1. he catches at circumstances as men when almost drowned do at sticks or weeds for he sayes he perceives by my words pag. 30. If the Church in regard of outward administration of Ordinances were onely the elect c. that the teâ—ms Church and Covenant were so ambiguously used by me that he knew noâ— how to conceive of my meaning Thus this â—ugler casts a mist before the eyes of the Reader that by the virtue of Hocus Pocus he may seemingly swallow those daggers that he will never be able to dâ—gest But in good earnest were the terms Church and Covenant used ambiguously by me When by Church I expressed my self to mean the whole visible Church as in the major denyed pag. 29. â—nd by Covenant to mean an external covenant made with all vsible Professors in opposition to his Covenant made onely with the spiritual seed of Abraham pag. 14 Whosoever reads the Premises or the relation of the Dispute will find that I spake so clearly distinctly home in these terms that he conceiving my meaning did directly overthrow his gave no answer then nor does yet save this collaterall shift which like the black mud cast over the fish Sepia or Cuttle showes where he was taken But with Reignold he hath more evasions yet for my fast speaking he sayes would not permit him deliberately to consider my words what a sore is this that he layes his finger upon and complaines oâ— almost in every page The truth is I spake no faster than he repeated but faster than he answered That as the Cardinall of Lorrain said at Beza's dispute he wished the people had either been deaf or I dumb But this my fastness would not suffer him deliberately to consider my words If almost three hours time would not suffer him deliberately to consider of that which might have been delivered in one hour yet methinks six months since might But this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as in the Epigram brings forth now as blind whelps as then So that it was a marvell that he desired liberty then to explain himself and to enquire into my meaning which was as transparent as if it had been writ with the Sun-beames but amounts to a prodigie that he should averr so now when he neither did so nor had the least occasion for it Onely when he perceived the people apprehended that he was brought to an apparent absurdity he waded into a large discourse to wind himself out it being impossible for him otherwise seemingly to answer or to make the disputation on his part but sophistically probable but by obscuring the truth But his assertion in the next section is more frontless for thus he charges me As for that which Mr. C. saith it was the Question whether the Church in regard of outward administration of Ordinances were onely the elect It doth untruly suggest as if I so conceived whereas the truth is he untruly suggests that which I said not for my proposition was not Categorical as he mis-reports it that it was the Question whether the Church in regard of outward administration of Ordinances were onely the elect but hypothetical if the Church in regard of outward administration of Ordinances which is the Question were only the elect These were my words expresly neither can he drawout by any consequence that I implyed so much for if he rack them upon the Tenters he cannot stretch them to say that the question was whether the Church in regard of outward administration of Ordinances was onely the elect but the Question was about the administration of an outward Ordinance to wit Baptism And if I had said that had been the Question as he alledges it I had suggested nothing otherwise than he conceived if we may judge of his conceits by his
Yes and before they actually believe which I prove thus The blessing is as large as the curse But the curse extended even to children before they could actually believe his blood be upon us and upon our children Therefore the blessing T. Master T. answered to the Major thus If by blessing was meant the inward and spiritual part of the Covenant it might be true but that was nothing to the present purpose seeing it was not known to us But if the outward and visible part he denied that Infants were capable of the blessing as well as liable to the curse C. Which distinction was took away thus They that are holy with a Covenant-holinesse are capable of the outward and visible part But Infants of believers are holy with a Covenant-holiness Therefore they are capable of the outward and visible part T. Mr. T. denied the Minor and said that Covenant-holiness was gibberidge which they that spoke did not understand themselves C. Master C. replyed it was the language of learned men of all ages amongst whom were Volsius Bullinger and Hugo Grotius and that Children of believing Parents were holy before baptism and that baptism did not make but declare them to be Christians Then cryed out a cobler I. E. that hath been dipped this is Blasphemy C. Well you discover of what spirit you are and your ignorance Are not these the words of the learned assembly of Divines in the Directory confirmed by Ordinance of Parliament That Infants are Christians and federally holy before baptism and therefore are they baptized Pag. 12. And that Infants of believing Parents are thus holy with a federall or Covenant-holiness I thus prove from 1 Cor. 7. 14. Else were your Children unclean but now they are holy T. That sayes Master T. Is meant of Matrimoniall holyness or a lawfull use of the Marriage-bed that they are no Bastards C. That Answer I thus infringe That which in Scripture is taken almost six hundred times in a distinct sense and not so much as once for Matrimoniall holiness cannot be so meant here But it is taken in Scripture almost six hundred times in a distinct sense and not once for Matrimoniall holynesse Therefore it cannot be so meant here T. That Argument sayes Master T. I will retort upon you That which in Scripture is taken six hundred times in a distinct sense and never once for Covenant holiness cannot be meant here But it is taken six hundred times in a distinct sense and never once for Covenant-holiness Therefore it cannot be meant here C. To which was replyed this is to invert the order of the dispute you are to answer and not to oppose T. I may oppose by retorting of an Argument and I will answer anon C. Well to satisfie you I deny your Minor for it s taken oft in Scripture for Covenant-holiness T. Where C. The proof lyes upon you that it is not yet I le give you one instance or two Rom. 11. 16 if the first fruits be holy the Lump is also holy and if the root be holy so are the branches T. That is not meant of a Covenant-holyness C. Yes it s as cleer as the light and so you your self interpreted it at Ross as there are hundreds that will witness which was upon this occasion I pressed that if the immediat parents were holy the children were holy with a Covenant holiness you denyed the inference and said the meaning of it was that Abraham the father of the faithfull was the first fruits and root that was holy and therefore his posterity was holy and in covenant And in this exposition as he agreed with truth so with Beza who says that children are holy that is comprehended in covenant from the womb and with Bowles who saith that they are holy with outward holiness by which they are judged to be in covenant But to return from whence by your retortion we have digressed I am to prove that holyness is never taken in Scripture for Matrimoniall cleaness in opposition to Illegitimation Not in that place Ezra 9. 2. the holy seed have mingled themselves with the seed of those lands which is either your onely or principall hold as far as I can gather out of your books therefore in no place T. He denyed the Antecedent C. Which was proved thus If it be meant of Matrimoniall cleanness then this must be the meaning of the words The holy seed that is the lawfully begotten Jews have mingled themselves with the seed of those lands that is the bastards of those lands But that cannot be the meaning for happily there were some Bastards among the Jews and in that sense not holy and no Bastards among the Nations but all or the most Legitimate and therefore in that sense not unholy Therefore it is not meant of Matrimoniall holiness T. He denyed the Major affirming that both Jews and Nations were holy before their mixture but then both they and their Children became unclean because God had forbidden them to marry with the Nations C. To which was answered they that are Saints are not unholy But some Saints have been begot by this mixture or unlawfull bed as Jepthah who Hebr. 11. is said to be justified by faith Therefore they are not unholy T. He denyed the Major saying they may be unholy by their Naturall Generation and first birth and yet holy by Regeneration and new birth C. This strikes not home Moses had children by his Ethiopian woman but they were not illegitimate therefore those that were begot by mixture with the Nations were not Illegimate T. Master Tombes said that was before the Law was given C. Well that Answer will do you little service after the Law was given Salomon had children by Rahab who was a Cananitish and Boaz by Ruth who was a Moabitish woman and yet they were not Illegitimate or unholy as you would have it T. They became Proselites and received the Religion of the Jewes C. Well then while they were not of the Jews Religion though no Bastards they were unholy when they embraced the Jews Religion by your own confession they became holy what is this but a Covenant holyness which you have opposed all this while and now grant it T. Mr. T. Vsed many words to clear himself but with little satisfaction to the greaiest part of the hearers and still denyed that children were holy and in Covenant C. Which was further proved thus They that Christ took up in his arms blessed said the Kingdom of God belonged unto them pronounced a curse upon those that despised and would receive are holy with a Covenant-holyness But Christ took up little children into his arms blessed them said the Kingdom of God belonged unto them pronounced a curse upon those that despised and would not receive them Therefore little Children are holy with a Covenant-holiness T. Mr. Tombes began to be netled as if something in this Argument galled him saying it was a fallacie and that he went about to entrap
a Jewish ceremony a binding command nor fasten contradictions upon him for applying that here to laying on of hands in Baptism which in his Examen he interprets to be laying on of hands in Ordination of Ministers Let those passe Yet I cannot but take notice that he is so confident of his present interpretation of those places that he says they might have deterred the Author of the Frontispiece from exposing the Ordinance of Baptisme and other Rites to contempt had he any reverence to holy things To which I reply who was the Author of the Anti-frontispiece page I know not and as little whether it was to Idolize or to expose to contempt dipping or rebaptizing which he calls the Ordinance But if it were Christs Institution me thinks they should not be afraid to have that exposed to the eye which they preach to the ear But he marches on furiously like Jehu with whole Waynes laden with reproaches inveighing against the Frontispiece of Dr. Featlies book and this with the Epistles and other passages which he sayes do give occasion to Intelligent persons to conceive that this sort of men do make but a sport of Christs Ordinance As for Dr. Featlie he hath given his account already before a higher Bar some like Kestrils love to be preying over dead carcases and with Thersites to trample upon the graves of those Achilles's whom they durst not look in the face when living The Author of the other is unknown to us Yet let him know thus much we reverence Christs Ordinance and have as great a mind to search out and receive the Truth as himself and are so far from exposing them that are for re-baptizing and against Infant-Baptism to the contempt of light and profane wits and to the hatred of the ignorant and superstitious common people as he uncharitably scandalizes them that we rather pity them and would not only spend our breath but our dearest blood to bring them into unity and unanimity with their brethren And whatsoever he conceives The Book was published by men of that spirit who endeavoured to bring those home to the fold of Christ who of late had been poysoned in judgment and imbittered in affections against the reformed Churches and their Ministers which he further confirmes them in calling them loose or formal pretended Ministers Which argues a great deale of rash ignorance in him seeing he neither knowes Pastor or people of these parts saving two or three censorious Anabaptists upon whose credit he takes this uncharitable prejudice whereas if he had been willing to have been truly informed he might have found Ministers as free from loosenesse and formalities and more constant to the principles of truth and conscionable than they that vilifie them and labours as much for reformation of ignorance superstition profanenesse and ungodlinesse which abounds lesse in these parts than under his wing as the Anabaptists does to gain Proselytes by re-baptizing which whosoever in the spirit of meekness opposes and would keep their flock free from infection he brands them with the mark of formall pretented Ministers Who take upon them to teach but do indeed as Elymas the sorcerer Acts 13. pervert the right way of the Lord This censure falls as heavy upon all Ministers of the Reformed Churches as us which we spread before the Lord as Ezekiah did Rabsheca's blaspheming letter and submit to the Judgment of the whole Church whether Mr. Tombes or we more pervert the way of the Lord or resemble Elymas the Sorcerer who like him did seek to turn away the Deputy from the Faith and withstood Barnabas and Paul as he does all Orthodox Ministers like Johannes ad oppositum or Ishmael his hand is against every man Mr. Tombes 4 Section SVrely did they seek the truth in love they would not so insult over tender consciences as they do encourage the looser sort and deter the enquiring souls from the waies of Christ For my self as I have found from others so I deprehend in these men the same unrighteous spirit in their reporting my Answers and publishing them in Print without my revising of them though it were proposed and as I remember yielded by one that in a private way I should have his Arguments sent to me in writing And for the other after two Copies of his Sermon sent me yet I wrote to know whether he would own them nor did publish any thing though I had sent some Anâ—madversions on the notes I received of which I was told one copy wâ—â— shewed to Mr. Cragge himself and not disowned by him And I do account it a shamefull practise which these men and another before have used towards me that after I have been drawn to a verball Extemporary dispute and no common Notary agreed on yet my Answers are published by them without ever allowing me the sight of them that I might either own them or amend them before the Printing and publishing them But I see faction so prevailes with them that like as if they were of the Romists minds they allow themselves liberty to use any arts as pious frauds to bear down the truth of Anti-Paedobaptism And this they do with so much insolency as may stir up the inconsiderate to trample upon their Antagonist and create prejudice against the truth which hath necessitated me in this hast to write this Reply SOme Truths we are impregnably setled in Scripture is a river as Gregory said where a lamb may wade others are more obscure where the Elephant may swim in these we seek the Truth in love yet not so as to be wherried about with every wind of new doctrine But after the Apostles advice 1 John 4. 1. We believe not every spirit but trye the spirits whether they be of God because many false prophets are gone out into the world Otherwise the Socinians and Ranters might impose upon us who vent their blasphemous notions with as much confidence as doe the Anabaptists And we are so far from insulting over tender consciences that wheresover we see any spark of piety we encourage it any looseness we reprove it yet we think not that it is to deter enquiring souls from the wayes of Christ meekly to disswade them from questioning one Ordinance after another till Satan have disputed them out of all as we know some by wofull experience who first denyed Infant-Baptism then all Baptism except spirituall as they call it then the Lords Supper and so one Ordinance after another till they were above Ordinances and at length turned Atheists What unrighteous spirit he found in others concerne not us though we believe he had faire dealing from Mr. Baxter whom he girds at And in relation to our selves we conceive his Answers are reported with as much faithfulness as our oppositions and published with no more prejudice to him than us though also without his revising nescit vox dicta reverti if he and we come upon the publick stage we must not be offended if our words
Paralogismes and Elenches of Sophistrie In which Etnean forge Mr. T. is the chief Briarius or Gias who operates with more than an hundred hands yet wise learned men easily discovers a vein of fallacies running through the whole mine and by the cynosure or pole-star of the Gospel escapes themselves and directs others to avoid the Rhegium or breach they make in the Church and cuts the channel even betwixt the Scylla or gulf of errours on the one hand and the Charybdis or rock of absurdities on the other Now if any well meaning though weak Christian be inveigled with this errour we would not have them fight against God that is their own conscience which haply by accident may be when they oppose an untruth but we would have them by sweet insinuations and Arguments to be won unto the truth Yet this is no Plea for Bigots of the faction like fire to turn all things into their own nature and with the Pharisees to compass Sea and Land to make Proselytes of their own opinion Therefore Edward the sixt when Cranmer Arch-bishop of Canterbury and Ridley Bishop of London were sent from the Councell to entreat him for toleration but in one family of a Religion that was against his conscience he first opposed it out of Scripture-grounds secondly backed it with a resolution that he would spend his life and all that he had rather than to agree and grant to that he knew certainly to be against the truth And lastly when they continued their importunity his tender heart bursting out in bitter weeping and sobbing desired them to be content whereat the Bishops themselves seeing his zeale and constancie wept as fast as he as convinced with his tears which like Mary Magdalens tears may well be proclaymed for a memorial and Monument of him and is well worth our imitation Acts and Monuments Tom. 2. p. 1295. col 2. Edit Anni 1583. Master Tombes 8. Section THough Disputes are usefull yet such unworthy artifices as I find in and after them are a just reason for me to waâ—e them especially with such men as I have met with What the success hath been of the disputes mentioned is not so proper for me to enquire The publishing of that at Bewdley in so unbrotherly manner hath I imagin diverted many from the truth who if they had not been willing to be deluded had never been caught with such a cheat as is the mock-titled book Plain Scripture-proof for Infant Baptism The rest of the Disputes have not gained that I hear any credit to â—adobaptism but on the contrary among the intelligent It is true I was importuned to visit some friends at Abergaveny and did preach there and some of the things the letter mentions I spake and do still avouch The two mentioned were unknown to me I slighted neither though being wearied with preaching I did forbear to speak much and was willing to get into a dry house from the rain I was willing tâ— havâ— confeâ—ence with Mr. V. who seemed modest and intelligent The other Opponent I found before to be a man of talk who could not blush That which the second Epistle writes of my being wounded and vaunting is meerly fabulous and I think the like of the short time of conceâ—ving the Dispute and Sermon It displeaseth me not that the businessâ— should be truly stated which is the end of this writing though it displease me that such unworthy tricks are used to deceive people as those which appear in the publishing this Disputation and Sermon I intend not to lengthen the business by insisting on the falsity of the reports of my Answer It is not improbable I might in five hours Dispute with one who talked so fast as to give no time to consider of what he said answer nâ—t so clearly as I would had I had the Arguments to view and examine deliberately I presume it will be sufficient for clearing Truth if either I shew how my Answers are misreported or â—ow they are to bâ— amended Reply TO the fifth head of the Epistle wherein it is enquired whether it be fit to Dispute and confer wiâ—h Anabaptists seeing their Doctrine eats â—s a Cankâ—r for which cause the Empress Placilla would not suffer her husband Theodosius to discourse with the Heretick Eunomius He answers by concurring in judgment with the resolution there given granâ—ing by an hypothesis that Disputes are usâ—fuâ— but like Margery-good-cow â—veâ—th owes it presâ—ntly again with thâ—s Thesis that such unworthy artifiâ—es as he fiâ—ds in and after them are a just reason for him to wave them especially with such men as he hath met with What unworth artifices hath Mr. Tombes found iâ— Disputes Lâ—gâ—ck and Divine Truth Logick or refined reason whereby â—is â—alacies Divine Truth whereby hâ—s errours are discovered Hâ—w much are they to blame that set up true Lights to descry false Warâ—s What Artifices hath he found after Disputes A publication of them that what was transacted in private is transmitted to the publick view O unworthy project Cannot Bajaset bâ— taken but he must be carrâ—ed abâ—ut in a Cage to be sâ—en Nothing grieved the Monks and Friers so much as when the Images of Daâ—nâ—l Gathern the rood of Grace and Wilfrids nedâ—e were pulled dâ—wn that they were showne at Pauls-Crosse and elsâ—where that all mâ—gâ—t sâ—e the secret gimmers by which a Priâ—st invisible dâ—d act the pretendâ—d Miracâ—es And he further aggravates these unworthy Artifices with an Emphasis put upon them especially with such men as he hath met with What men hath he met with Such whose neither Person nor Arguments he can reconcile to his party Caligula loves to grapple with the shells of the shore whence Trophies of victory may be carried away without sweat or blood so does the Anabaptists like Salmacida spolia sine sanguine sudore And therefore because he cannot carry away a dry conquest he resolves to wave Disputes hereafter I wish hâ— had done so hitherto both by pen and otherwise his conscience one day would have found more peace and the Church more quiet O that he would imitate Austin hereafâ—er who nevâ—r writ so fair a hand as when he writ backward his â—erractations What successe the Disputes at Bewdley Hereford Ross and Abergaveny had he sayes is not so proper for him to enquire whether proper or no we cannot believe but that he is so carefull a husbandman when he hath planted and watered he will look after the increase or if he enquire not others will be apt to tel him which he confesseth afterward for Fame hath an hundred feet an hundred wings an hundred mouthes That at Bewdley he implyedly confesses hath had success for Infant-Baptism but presently he sends up a swarm of Locusts to dimm this light 1. Affirming that it was published in an unbrotherly manner 2. That it diverted many from truth 3. That they were willing to be deluded 4. That they were caught with a cheat 5. That the