replieth saying The holy oblation whether Peter or Paule doe offer it or any other priest of what so euer goodnes he be is the same which Christ did geue vnto his disciples and which priestes euen now to these daies doe consecrate And S. Ambrose He is saieth he our Bishop which offered the sacrifice which purged vs the same we also now offer vp which then being offered can not be consumed Wherfore seing that priestes how so euer they be in their liues are honorable for the sacrifice which they offer And wheras Christ did offer vp him selfe according to the order of Melchisedech in his last supper and thirdly wheras priestes do the same very thing which our master did before it is ignoraÌ„ce not to know these thinges or dissimulatioÌ„ to passe by them it is impiety to speak against the church and it is blasphemy in deed to reuile or taunt at Christ his bodi But yet M. Iuel wil proue his saing For contrariwise Christ presenteth vs and maketh vs a swete oblation in the sight of God his father Ergo sayeth he the priest offereth not Christ. which is open blasphemye or els he should say that he vnderstandeth not the matter For what contrariety is betwen Christ and his church or betwen the head and the body All this which I shal say is true Christ offereth vp vs Christ is the oblation it selfe the churche offereth Christ and Christ doth offer his church and in all this ther is no contrarietie witnes hereof is S. Austen saing Bicause of the forme of a seruant which he â—oke Christ is also a priest him self being the offerer and him self the oblation Of which thing he would the daily sacrifice of the church to be a Sacrament wheras he is the head of her the body and she the body of him the head she aswel being accustomed to be offered by him as he accustomed to be offered by her So that euery man may see whith what lerning and truth the Canon hitherto hath ben reproued But let vs coÌ„sider the rest More ouer the priest desireth God to accept the body of his soâ—ne Ihesus Christ â–ª as he once accepted the sacrifice of Abell or the oblatioÌ„ of Melchisedech And think we that Christ the soune of God standeth so far in his fathers displeasure that he nedeth a mortal and miserable man to be his spokes man to procure him fauor Haue you seen a man somtimes for wantones or dronkenes or plaine 〈◊〉 to fight against his owne shadow 〈◊〉 M. Iuel here streketh that kind of men which I haue not read of and none I think which beleueth in Christ did euer dreame that his father was angry with him and that he needeth to haue not onely a mortal miserable man but any most glorious creature to speake for him Yet this preacher so sowndeth as though all the whole number of Catholikes which these nine huÌ„dred yeres by his owne coÌ„fession vsed the Canon haue praied to God for Christ his soule Now God haue mercy on his sowle which so loudly belieth so many blessed and lerned men This obiection hath in part been answered before yet I say now again that the church desireth God to loke downe vpon his sonnes body and to accept it either for vehemency of loue and deuotion which causeth men to repete again and again that which they are sure of or els bicause all flesh is weake and vnclean and vnworthy to come so nigh vnto the most high mysteries therfore the church desireth that God will accept at her handes and looke fauorably vpon the body of his soâ—ne fearing lest perchaunce the wickednes of her be such that God turneth away his face from her euen at that time when his most dearest soune is present After which manner albeit the Ghospell and the actes of Christ be alwaies liked of God yet of som it is saied by the Prophet VVy doest thou declare my righteousnes and takest my testament in thy mouth Which men wel might praye after this sort which M. Iuel so gretly wondreth at and say Lord behold with a merciful couÌ„tenance the wordes of thy owne Ghospell and turne not away they face from thy owne testameÌ„t And so likewise that which foloweth in the Canon that God wold accept the sacrifice of his sonnes bodye as he accepted Abell Abraham or Melchisedechs oblations it is not spoken as M. Iuel faineth as thowgh the bodye of Christ were to be receaued no otherwise then shepe or lambe and bread or wine but the church declareth therin her wish that as concerning her seruice not as concerning the price of the thinges offered in the old time and these daies of grace it wold please God to receaue at her handes the sacrifice of Christ his body so thankfully as he receaued the oblations of those good fathers And that her seruice in this part may be no worse vnto her then those of old time were to Abell Abraham and Melchisedech But let vs now coÌ„sider by this obiection what one may do which is disposed and what euil example is geuen vnto Ethnikes by the lokes of Christians to speake against the Christian faith Arise o Lord sayeth the Prophet why doest then slepe Remembre Dauid o Lord sayeth the same Prophet and all his gentlenes and that Dauid is Christ. And in an other place of the Psalmes it is writen that God did arise like one which had ben a slepe and like a valiant which had well dronk of wine Yea it ys expresslie sayed for Christ I pray God to heare the in the tyme of thy tribulation and so furth thorowgh the whole Psalme Shall Christians in these places play the Ethnikes partes and aske whether God be a slepe or forgetfull or well tipled what doe they meane which pray to obteine any thing for Christ his sake do they not say in effect all this behold o Lord how thy blessed soun take flesh vpon hym for our sakes remembre his obedieÌ„ce remembre the scourges the prickes of thorne the nailes the crosse the death which he suffered remembre and doe not forget how deepe is S. Bernard and S. Bonauentura and thousandes of blessed men in the coÌ„sideratioÌ„s of our Sauior his passion what lamentations what questions what wisshes what thoughtes haue they O blessed fault sayeth S. Gregory which deserued such a redemer what saye we to the auncient hymnes of the church which are song in the lent the sense I remembrâ— although I keepe not all the wordes Bowe downe thy bowes o tall high tree and slake thy hard stiff graine That with soft stretching his bodye thou ease the high kinges paine what place is left for the fong of the three children All the workes of our Lord blesse our Lord And the Psal. Praise ye our Lord which is in the heauens in which Psalmes sonne and moon thunder lightning haile snow hills fildes riuers seas all beastes of the earth
still that in the sacrament is Christ his bodye and to make playne what body is meaned it foloweth which shalbe delyuered for yow Agayne it is a verâ—tie most certain that Christ hath not left his church without guides and gouernours in which be first Apostles then Propheâ—s then EuaÌ„gelistes after these Pastors and Doctors to the perfiting of her Which if yow graunt to what purpose is any talk or brable moued if more masses be sayd in one church at one tyme if laye men be restrained from commenting vpon the Scriptures or if the host be diuided in to three partes or if the laie man receiue in one kynd alone wher as all these thinges be such that being once appointed they must nedes be obserued And if they neuer had ben appointed the veritie of the SacrameÌ„t were nothing thereby diminished To what purpose then do I speak all this Truly to come at length to some end with out aduersaries and to geue waâ—â—ing vnto our frendes that in all thinges they require that which is materiall and necâ—ssary and lerne to distinct that from thinges indifferent in them selues â–ª also to appeale vnto the principall coÌ„clusion and not to meddle with lower matters before the principall be decided Can you proue saieth M. Iuell that it was lawfull by the old Doctours and Councels for the priest to pronounce the wordes of coÌ„secration closely What then Sir I can proue that there was and must be a principall head in the church by whom we must be ruled whether he appoint the wordes closely or openly to be pronounced how now then should any wise man and desirous of the truth haue talk with an heretike aboute the open and close speaking of the priest which dependeth of that other question whether the Bisshoppes and heades of the church may not rule the churche of Christ as they shall see expedient what a doe is made about the coÌ„munion vnder one kynde of prayers in the vulgar tong and of order in the seruice in which questions the heretike hath this aduantage that whiles these thinges are indifferent he maye bring for him selfe a probable argumeÌ„t and the Catholike whatso euer he shall bring except he goe to a higher questioÌ„ he shall speak but probablye and so the hearer of bothe partes can not dissalow greately any one But if we wold come to that which is the chefe in all such indiffereÌ„t matters and reason whether we shold not obey the lawfull Bishoppes and heads this question concluded would sone put to silence all heresy and settle well the consciences of true Catholikes I would faine be at an end and I can not For behold more then a dosen interrogations do folow which if I doe not answer I think that will be the best answer rather then to trouble both you and my self in opening all the matters which goe before and folow after vpon the foresaied interrogations But what nedeth that I go thorough all his interrogations and articles whereas if we be able to auouche against him any one of them all he is content to yeld and subscribe I will shew therefor which he demeth that the priest hath authoritie to offer vp Christ vnto his father Euery Bisshop saieth the blessed Apostle vnto the Hebrewes selected and chosen outâ— of men is appointed for men in those thinges which appertaine vnto God that he offer vp giftes and sacrifices for sinnes which being a generall proposition ergo either there be no priests and Bishopes in the new lawe or els they must haue a sacrifice which they may offer Which sacrifice must be of that valew that none may offer it but he which is called therevnto as Aaron was called â–ª and which sacrifice must be according to the order of Melchisedech as it is writen Thou arte a priest for euer according to the order of Melchisedech Of which order Christ our Lorde was in his last supper as being the priest of the gentils and not annoynted with visible oyle as the olde Bishoppes of the lawe were and thirdly bycause he offred vp sacrifice there his owne body and bloud not in forme of bloud and flesh but in forme of bread and wine as Melchisedeth did before Of which order Christ is truly saied to be a priest for euer as Oecuâ—enius saieth in respect of the priests which be now a dayes by meanes of whom Christ doth offer and also is offred Therefore if allmighty God hath taken an oth and if it doth not repent him thereof that Christ is priest for euer according to the order of Melchiâ—edech and if these wordes for euer be verified in Christ thorough priestes which be now in the world and whereas Christ offred in his last supper his very body and bloud in formes of bread and wine as it dyd appertayne vnto the order of Melchisedech how can it be saied that the priests haue no authoritie to offer his bodye which except it were offred God should seme to repent him of his oth and to break it also And further except priestes made out of men should offer it no offering wold be at all our Sauiour now according to his visible forme being ascended in to heauen and there abiding vntill the last iudgement of the world And not onely by this argument it is proued that priestes may and should offer vp Christ but also by the very expresse commaundement of Christ in his last supper when he sayed Do this in remembrance of me which commaundement except it had ben geuen what man in all the world wold haue entreprised to haue coÌ„secrated the body of oure Lorde For as S. Denyâ— testifieth of the priests of his time They did excuse them selues reuerently and Bishoplike that they offred vp the â—olsome sacrifice which is farr aboue them trying first vnto God decently and saying Thou hast sayed Do this in my remembrance and then beseching him that they maye be made worthy of so great a ministery and seruice that they maye holylye consecrat the Sacrament By which wordes it appereth that the priestes of the primitiue church much abashed at the excellency of their function did yet take harâ—e of grace to consecrat the holsom sacrifice because they were commaunded so to do by God him selfe In which sense also Sainct Basil praieth in his lyturgye and masse Make me saieth he meete through the power of the holy Ghost that I being endued with the grace of priesthood maye stand at this holy table and maye consecrat thy holy and vndefiled body and precious bloud And like wise again For thy vnspeakable and exceding kindnes sake withoute all mutation and conuersion thou hast ben made man and hast ben named oure Bishop and hast deliuered vnto vs the consecratioÌ„ of this seruiceable and vnbloudy sacrifice And after this very sorte all blessed men haue euer done in the church of Christ not denying but that all priestes do in very dede coÌ„secrat and offer vp the body of Christ but leâ—t
such an high ministery might turne to reproch of their rashnes in that behalfe they alleage for their excuse the wordes of Christ saying Do this in remembrance of me Do not we offer vp Christ euery day sayeth S. Chrisostom And agayne It is oure Bishop Sayeth S. Ambrose which offred vp the sacrifice which clensed vs the same offer we nowe also which then being offred can not be consumed Let vs priestes therefor sayeth the same blessed man in an other place follow as we can our high priest that we maye offer vp sacrifice for the people although weak in deserts and good dedes yet honourable for oure sacrifice for although Christ nowe doth not seme to offer yet he is offred in earth when that the body of Christ is offred Wherefor I conclude that it is a very lye to saye that it can not be found in any auncient Doctor that priestes haue authorite to offer vp Christ to his father Thus hauing then proued right sufficiently that he hath bâ—lyed the church and the truth for the rest of the questions whether we can find in the olde fathers the termes ex opere operato or indiuiduum vagum or the questions of the applying of the sacrifice or of the accidents remaining or the case which he moueth of a mowse vnto all these which so roundely and gloriously as if the field had ben woÌ„ne he bringeth forth all in a ray I resist with one awnswer that if I could finde them in old Doctours yet at this tyme I would not seke them and if they can not be found as I may grauÌ„t without hinderaunce of the Catholike faith expressely and plainely sett forth yet hath he wonne nothing vnto his purpose And bicause this coÌ„fession of myne for what others will faâ—e I can not tell but yf this confession of myne maye seme to geue somwhat vnto M. Iuells articles I will therefore agayne shortely make my aunswer more plainer I graunt that I finde not within .vj. C. yeares after Christ that ex opere operato and for the workes sake sinnes were forgeueÌ„ at the masse time Ergo saieth he the highest misteries and greatest of your religion be broken No Syr not so for you aske whether within .vj. C. yeares after Christ these or these termes were expressed and I aunswer no. as farr as I know But if you aske me whether these and these thinges be true and whether thei were beleued I wil plainely saie yea and proue it plainely But I will proue it by the consent of lerned men and the voice of the church which hath ben sence the .vj. C. yeares of which you speake But yow will haue the proufe to be takeÌ„ out of the vjC yeares next after Christ or ells you will not admitt it As though this were your argument what so euer was not preached and so lefte in writing vjC yeares after Christ that is not true â–ª but indiuiduum vagum was not mencioned with in these vjC yeares ergo what so euer is proued by all lernyng as concerning indiuiduum vaguÌ„ that is not true bicause it was not spoken within those vjC yeares And as I haue made your argumeÌ„t in indiuiduuÌ„ vaguÌ„ so is it in all the other of your articles allmost in whiche all the fault which you finde is that viC yeres after Christ were passed before they were by the Catholikes published Now if this be a good reason then do I confesse that I am quyte ouercomed But if that otherwise it be nothing worth then haue I lost nothing in graunting that with in vjC yeares after Christ certain yea most of those articles which he reciteth were not plainlie opened how think yow if that in the ende of August when frutes are ripe and are tasted to be good yet some one sadd witted felow would coÌ„demne all the frutes in the orchard for wild and naught that onlie for this cause that in the beginning of Aprill no such thinges were vpon the trees would in his owne coÌ„ceyt praise the faire moneth of Aprill for the shining of the Son the opening of the earth the gentle raines fâ—om the cloudes grene ornaments of the ground which no maÌ„ wold denie but for all the rest of the spring and sommer if he wold speak few good wordes of theÌ„ for anger wold cast away all the frutes of the haruest should he not declare a madd testy kinde of wisedom therein And why then I praie you in the church of God which is called in Scripture and is in dede his paradise and garden will you admitt nothing but that which budded forth in the vjC yeares after Christ as it were in the spring tyde or beginning of sommer The coÌ„clusions of the valew of the SacrameÌ„t of the applying thereof of the accidents of all other such thinges they com out of the rote and body of the tree of that veritie I meane which saieth This is my body which if you will coÌ„temne bicause they were not sprongen out vjC yeares after Christ you shall be one of the hastings to speak the lest of you Where is it readen with in vjC yeares of Christ that oure blessed lady was preached or named the mother of mercy the hand mayden of the Trinitie the spouse of the holy ghost the Quene of heauen the Empresse of hell yet if you beleue in dede and in harte and not saye it only froÌ„ the teeth forwarde that she is the mother of God necessarely al the other titles folow Shal I then saie she was not called the Quene of heaueÌ„ or spouse of the holy ghost in the vjC yeares after Christ ergo she maye not be so called now and the greatest keye of owr religion is brokeÌ„ yet coÌ„mon sense approueth that a kinges mother is a Quene and not of no place I trow And thus I trust M. Iuel hath no cause to triumph hytherto Now for the rest of thinges which do folow vnto the end of his sermon I haue litle minde to declare the falsehood of them bicause I am wery of repeting so many vntruthes of his one he alone betrated being sufficient to confound his loylâ—ty in misreporting and miscoÌ„struing with libertie For what reason is this to saie that therefor the papistes do not wel answer no masse is priuate seing that in euery â—asse euery priest doth communicat with an other where so euer he be bicause saieth M â–ª Iuell by this reason there should be 〈◊〉 excoÌ„munication at all whereas the party excoÌ„municated in England might saie he wold coÌ„municat with the priest which saieth masse in Calicute For this reason doth proue our senteÌ„ce that wheras the man in England being excoÌ„municated can not communicat with the priest in Calicute ergo the priest of Calicute and England be of one communion and body so that he which is cutt of from the one can not remaine in the other and he which agreeth with the one agreeth with the other
sayeth he afterwardes he was not called vniuersall Bishopp Wherfor vnto M. Iuells question yf the name of vniuersall Bishopp was not in the primitiue church yet the thing it self was as 〈…〉 shewed so that the name it selfe 〈…〉 haue been vsed in that sense as it 〈…〉 Bishopp which hath charge 〈…〉 and of all the Catholike 〈…〉 But as it signifyeth hym which 〈…〉 other Bishop but hym selfe 〈…〉 there neither was 〈…〉 Bishopp vniuersall 〈…〉 people were then tawghte to 〈…〉 Christes 〈◊〉 ys reallye 〈…〉 carnailâ—e or 〈…〉 The 〈◊〉 â—ome of God is not in wordes but in power and strength and allbeyt owt of hand it could not be fownd to bryng a writer so auncient as yow require for euery one of those termes yet is the cause nothing the worse so that it may appere by any meanes that in the Sacrament is his verye body For I think it would be very hard to find in any writing of old and holy doctor with in vjC yeares of Christ all these wordes that he take râ—all substantiall corporall carnall naturall flâ—shâ— of the virgin Marie and yet they were instructed perfectlie to beleue that Christ toke owr verye flesh and not a figure onlye therof as the Maniches did euill report And so yf I could noâ— bring example of all the termes which yow would haue proued yet yf I can coÌ„clude that the verye body and not a fantasticall supposed bodye is in the sacrament for the wordes of carnall reall corporall substanciall and naturall I need not be woefull In the sacrament sayeth S. Ierome vnto Hebidia the verye bodyâ— of Christ ys of which bodye sayeth Isichius in Leu. lib 6. Cap 22. S. Gabriel did say vnto the virgin the holie ghost shall com vpon the. It is called of S. Cyrill lib. 3. in 10. Cap. 37. lib. 10. Cap. 13. the body of lyfe it selfe or of naturall lyfe Of Origene the bodye of the worde Of S. Chrisostome the body which is partaker of the diuine nature 1. Cor. Cap. 10. Of S. Augustine Psal. 33. the verye crucifyed bodye in the which he suffered so greate thinges Of Chrisâ—stome againe 1. Cor. Cap. 10. the body which was nayled vpon the crosse beaten wounded with spere which was not ouercoÌ„med with death What will a Christian man aske more and what neede to bring owt the wordes of carnall reall corporall naturall wheras the bodye of Christ being present and that body which was borne of the virgin Marye it foloweth that it is reall and naturall or els we are fallen from owr fayth in which we beleue that he toke reall flesh of the blessed virgin And here also where fynd you not onelye within vjC yeares of Christ but within .vj. and .vj. hundred and take three more vnto them that the people were taught to beleue that the body of Christ is onlye figuratiuelye sacrameÌ„tallie significatiuelye tropicallie imaginatiuelie in the Sacrament to the denyall of all presence and realitie S. Damascene a notable father writing purposelye of the sacrament of the altar sayeth that it is not simple bread or fode but vnited vnto the diuinitie Also hread and wyne sayth he is not a figure of the bodye and bloud of Christ God forbed but it is the very deisyed body of owr Lorde where as he hath sayed him selfe this is my body not a figure of my body and not a figure of my bloud but my bloud But M. Iuell appealeth vnto the vjC yeres next after Christ Vnto those vjC doth he appeale Vnto those vjC he that be browght And I require hym to shew furth where it was euer tawght with in vj. C. yeares after Christ that Christes bodie was in the sacrament figuratiuelye onely Lett one sentence example aucthoritye worde or sillable be browght furth of a bodye onelye figuratiue and significatiue and he shal haue the victorye Yea but sayth he the reall corporall carnall naturall presence was not preached or tawght at those dayes ergo a figuratiue bodye onelye was beleued And thus whiles we stryue vpon termes onely we spend the tyme in a questioÌ„ not necessarie and he will not consider the truth in it self as it is Christ sayd this is my bodye which shalbe delyuered for yow Saye the truth Is not this playne inowgh what yf he had sayd this is my naturall body should all mysbeleife on yowr part haue ceased I thinke not for these wordes which shalbe deliuered for yow do as playnely expresse what bodye he meaneth as yf he had vsed the worde naturall or corporall what difference is in these poyntes M. Iuell and the named Bishopp of Sarum and he which in the yeare of owr Lorde 1561. preached at Paules crosse the second sonday before Easter and after this sort yf I would proced further what difference were there or how many persons myght I be thowght to haue named in the iudgement of them which know the state of this world what oddes is there betwene fowre pens and a grote what difference betwixt the very body of Christ and the reall bodye the body borne of the blessed virgin and the naturall bodye the corporall bodye and his very flesh the carnall bodye and the bodye which was delyuered vnto death and hanged on the crosse for vs This is not childisshnes onely but very wantonnes to aske for the terme of a corporall and reall body and not to be coÌ„tent with such a bodye which dyed for vs to beleue owr eyes yf we should see hym and to discredite his voyce when we doe here hym not to be able to deny but this is the bodye which was delyuered for vs and yet to require whether it be his naturall bodye or no And yet bycause the church owr mother which in her selfe is strong doth condescend vnto the infirmitie of those which once the browght furth I will shew in one testimony that euen in playne worde corporallie Christ his body is geuen vnto the faythfull And yf copye of wordes delite M. Iuell I will proue also that he is naturally in his faithfull S. Cyrill a blessed and auncyent father in reprouyng and confutyng a certen Arrian which vpon those wordes of Christ I am the vyne and my father is the husbandman wold inferr that Christ and God the father were not of one substance no more then a vyne and a husbandman are which Arrian also sayde that those wordes I am a vyne c. apperteyned vnto the diuinitie and not the humanitie of Christ. S. Cyrill I saye in confuting this reason hath these wordes VVe doe not denye but we are ioyned spirituallie vnto Christ by right fayth aâ—d syncere charitie but yet that there is no waye of the ioyning of vs togeather with hym accordyng to the flesh that trulie we doe veterly denye And we say that to be altogeather besides the Scriptures For who hath doâ—ted Christ euen after this fashion vnderstand according to the flesh to be the vyne and vs to be