greeue the harte not onely of his Aduersarie but also of any other godly man with scorneful flowtes in thinges of greatest holinesse But Christian Reader we striue not for the Garland of that game we go not about to trie maisteries of suche witte or of humaine learning Our strife is about the Truthe The waie to shewe it and proue it whiche he him selfe by open Chalenge hath offred his Doctrine to be tried by is by laying forth the plaine Scriptures the examples of the Primitiue Church the testimonies of the General Councelles and ancient Fathers Of these who hath so great stoare saith a frende of his as M. Iewel Who euer sawe the margent of any Booke so beset with cotations as his Bookes are This were a great euidence of the Truthe on his side if the matter were alwaies tried by what so euer multitude of writers sayinges But what if the number of his testimonies be quite beside the purpose Seemeth he not then very shamelesse Is he not then farre to blame so to abuse the plaine and wel meaning Readers It shal be said perhappes in his excuse He seeth the negligence of menne he coÌ„sidered that fewe or none examine our writinges And therefore he thinketh he shal seeme to saie muche though in deede nothing be said that perteineth to the pointes presently handled And where a thing is to be done and the same for want of habilitie can not be done there it seemeth good policie to geue the assaie and to make shewe as if it could be donne or were donne It is knowen how flatterers make resemblance of frendship how Hypocrites geue forthe tokens of holinesse the intended Bankroute of good truste and credite the craking Coward of stoute courage Beggers oftentimes of welth Queanes of womanly honestie and chast demeanour Right so M. Iewel feeling him selfe destitute of the Truthe and impugning the Truthe and professing to deliuer vnto the worlde a new Truthe that is to saie a heape of olde Vntruthes busily set forth of late yeres by Luther Zuinglius Caluine Beza and the reste and by Wiklefe Hus Waldenses and others their predecessours in former times laboureth with al his witte and cunning to iustifie it calling it by the name of Goddes pure worde the Gospel and the sincere Truthe that whereas he is not hable to perfourme his intent in deed yet he might seeme to make it good with wordes Touching the life of the Clergie wel maie I confesse that M. Iewel hath somewhat to saie out of certaine writers how true I knowe not whereto I shal hardly be hable to make answer in ful defence of certaine personnes But as touching the Doctrine that the Catholike Churche holdeth at this daie and hath alwaies holden I auouche boldly as by sundrie our bookes it hath now ben clearely proued and they vnderstand so much that doo thoroughly examine the reasons authorities and proufes of both partes that he is not hable to bring so muche as one sentence out of any allowed writer that may not easily be refelled And bicause he knoweth that in pointes of Doctrine the force of Truth is clearely on our side he would faine traine me from matters of Doctrine wherein he hath smal hope of victorie or of acquitting him selfe with euen hande vnto matters of life and other bye thinges whereof what so euer be beleeued therein is no great danger touching our Saluation As for example what cracke is there made in the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche if the Nominales and the Reales if the Thomistes and Scotistes dissent about pointes Logical or Metaphysical or perhappes also about the paringes of some Scholastical pointes of Diuinitie What if some light beleeuing writers haue sadly and in ernest made mention of one Ioane a woman Pope deceiued by Martinus Polonus Martinus Polonus a man of smal credite who moued with olde wiues tales first committed that fable to writing What if some later writers haue vttered their phantasies whiche they dreamed thereof vpon occasion of an olde Marble Stone hauing in it a woman with a ladde standing by her engraued What if a fewe menne that helde with certaine euil Emperours whiche could not abide to be reuoked from their vnlawful lustes by the Pope for the time being haue written and reported il of a fewe Popes What if Iohannes Casa wrote some vnchaste Italian Sonettes and Rymes in his yewth though for filthinesse not comparable to suche as be extant of Bezaes making the Apostle of the Frenche Huguenotes What if Petrus Aloisius whom Paulus Tertius the Pope loued so tenderly were a vicious man What if Iohn Diazius the Spaniard were vnnaturally murdered by Alphonsus Diazius his brother that liued at Rome What if Luther wrote against the furious vproares of the Boures in Germanie when he sawe they were sure to be ouerthrowen by the Nobilitie there whom notwithstanding he had before by Thomas Muncer his scholer stirred to take weapons against their Lordes that he might laie some good colour vpon that he had il begonne What if some haue written though not without contradiction of others that Poison was ministred in the blessed Sacrament What if a Pope shewed him selfe cruel and without pitie in suffering Frances Dandulus the Venetians Ambassadour to lie vnder his table like a dogge whiles he was at diner What if Popes haue suffered great Princes and Monarkes to kisse their feete to holde their Stiroppes to leade their horses by the Bridle Wâ—at if Gregorie the seuenth otherwise called Hildebrande whom many graue Writers reporte to haue benne a man of great vertue and an excellent good gouernour of the Church be of some Writers of that age who flattered the Emperour then being that Popes mortal enemie accompted an il man What if Pope Alexander vsed Frederike the Emperour more proudly then became a man of his calling What if Constantines Donation can not be most sufficiently proued by record of antiquitie What if certaine Emperours and other Princes for great causes haue ben remoued froÌ„ their estates by the Popes authoritie What if the Gloser vpon Gratian and certaine other Canonistes haue immoderately magnified the Pope and to extol his power haue vsed some termes vndiscretely which neuerthelesse by fauorable interpretation maie be iustified What if the Popes at certaine times either for negligence cared not or for the wrechednesse of mannes il inclination could not or for great considerations would not vtterly purge the Citie of Rome of Courtesanes and Brodel houses What if the life of many Priestes Bishoppes Cardinals yea of some Popes also hath iustly deserued to be reproued Once to conclude what if al sortes of olde Bookes being raked out of dusty corners Schoolemen Summistes Glosers vaine Chroniclers Legendes writers of Dreames and Visions and suche Riffe raffe and menne for the purpose being set a worke to peruse them in the same be founde a fewe fonde pointes of Doctrine certaine loose Conclusions many seely Tales not worth the telling and some lewd faultes of
the despiser and prophaner of the holy Sacramentes the breaker of vnitie the enemie of God And for my warrant in so doing I haue the examples whiche here I laid forth before of the Prophetes of the Apostles specially of S. Paule S. Iude and S. Peter of S. Iohn the Baptiste of our Sauiour Christe him selfe Yea I say furthermore what is that sharpenes of wordes whiche in this case I meane when the auctoritie of the Councels and holy Fathers is so lightly contemned when Gods holy Mysteries are so turkishly prophaned when the Churche is so falsly sclaundered when vnitie is so with most certaine danger of Christian soules broken when the whole state of the Catholique Religion is so wickedly ouerthrowen briefly when God him selfe is so horribly blasphemed In this case I say what sharpenes of wordes is there which iuste griefe of a Christian harte and godly zeale causeth not to seeme not onely excusable but also laudable yea necessary yea with praise and reward to be honoured If when the Children of Israel defyled them selues in Fornication with the wemen of Moab God in anger said to Moyses take al the chiefe of the people Num. 25. and hang them vp in Gibettes against the Sunne that my wrath may be turned from Israel where there is so muche bothe bodily and spiritual fornication yea sacrilegious Incest not only coÌ„mitted but permitted but taught but couÌ„seled and exhorted and for some parte commaunded against the honour and wil of God our Moyseses and Aarons the true Gouernours withholden from executing their dewtie shal it not become vs whose hartes God toucheth at least with wordes to shewe the griefe of our mindes and with conuenient sharpenes of speache to rebuke the heinous wickednes that is committed and so for so muche as in vs lyeth to reuoke Gods people from it If Phinees being nor high Priest nor magistrate but only as yet a priuate man Ibidem was highly praised and rewarded of God for his zeale in killing one of the Israelites for whooredom committed with an harlot of Madian to stay Gods wrath shal we seme to deserue blame for vttering onely wordes in reproufe of so farre more heinous crimes if not to stay God from his iuste wrath nor the offenders from their wickednes yet the people of God from the like example What you are very nice M Iewel that finde so great faulte with me onely for certaine sharpe wordes bestowed in reprehension of your and your companions so diuers and so greeuous enormities You are not taken vp for halting as they say pardy Halting may haue some excuse of humaine infirmitie This that is reprehended in you is not only halting it is falling downe right Neither are you so muche to be rebuked for your owne wilful falling downe but muche more for that you studie and labour al that you can to pul al others downe into the pitte that your selfe are fallen into Now in this case the pitte being so dangerous is it not wel and dewtifully done to geue warning to Gods people to beware of it Al that I writte is for the peoples sake For with you and such as you are I haue litle hope to doo any good Suche ones the Apostle aduertiseth vs Tit. 1. not to deale withal Now how shal the people be dewly warned to beware whose senses be more liuely in worldly then in spiritual thinges excepte the dulnes of their minde be stirred vp with the feare of great peril And how can the greatnes of this peril be signified vnto them but with wordes of some vehemencie As for example If I should say to one that goeth forth by night sir the way you shal passe through is vneeuen by reason of litle holes and furrowes And you take not heede you may happen to stumble or perhappes to wrentche your foote Vpon this warning wil he be so careful how to go as if I say thus If you loue your life beware how you go that way for there be great pittes and dungeons that you shal hardly escape and if you fal you are sure to breake your necke The case is like in this behalfe M. Iewel The people be alwaies going foreward and for lacke of knowledge they passe forth as it were by night Now so farre as we are persuaded the way they go in at this day in England to be perilous as that whiche through Schismes and Heresies and other manifold wickednes thereof ensewing leadeth them to euerlasting damnation should we not deceiue them if we tolde them that Dungeons were but furrowes that deepe pittes were but stumbling holes and that there were no great Danger in the way For this cause therefore M. Iewel that the people of God might be the more a fraid to heare you and beleeue you and to folow your damnable waies I thought it good and expedient in writing against you and against the heresies of our time to vse shâ—rpâ—r wordes and speache of more vehemencie then otherwise I would haue done if I had written to you priuatly or so as knowing that my bookes should haue come to no mannes handes but to yours I knew you would wince and kicke at it But spare not litle care I therefore so that by my labour profite redounde to Christian People For what cause in writing my Confutation of the Apologie I vsed suche verdure of stile as might seme not ouer flatte but tempred with conuenient sharpenesse BEfore I began to set my penne to the paper I considered wel with my selfe what it was to stirre vp such Hurnettes and to prouoke such Waspes to anger Touched I them once were it neuer so gentilly I knew they would straight way flee at my face and buzze about me and that possibly I should not saue my selfe from their stinging Yet hauing a good harte and being right willing for the Truthes sake and for the Defence of Christes Churche to sustaine that Smarte what so euer it should be I tooke aduise with my selfe how to tempre my stile so as bothe Gods cause might seeme sufficiently defended and they not iustly offended Three vvaies of vvriting against an Aduersarie Whereas then there be three wayes of writing against such Aduersaries of the Churche vsed diuersly of the Fathers vpon diuers occasions of time place person and matter of which the one is colde softe meeke lowly and demure an other hote rough sterne and vehement the third tempred with a conuenient mediocritie betwen both though at the firste in my Answer to the Chalenge I inclined more vnto the softe and gentle waye afterward in my Confutation of the Apologie and in my Reioindre I chose the meane that by the one extreme I might not seeme to worke vpon choler and to seeke reuenge rather then Defence of Gods cause by the other to be too abiecte and to shew lesse confidence in our cause to thincouragement of such cockish Aduersaries Now commeth me M. Iewel and medling litle with the matter it selfe and
iudgement and minde touching obedience to princes and that in a booke dedicated and offred to be read euen of the Quenes Maiestie her selfe Confut. 15. a. Among other thinges thus I saie in my Confutation of the Apologie It standeth not with Goddes promises made to the Church touching his being with the Church al daies to the worldes ende and the holy Ghostes remaining with it Math. 28. Iohan. 14. the spirite of Truthe for euer that he should suffer his Churche to continewe in Darkenes and lacke of Truthe these thousand yeres past and now at the later daies to reuele the truthe of his Gospel by Apostates Vowebreakers Churcherobbers and suche others most vnlike to the Apostles Hereunto thus answereth M. Iewel Iewel pag. 32. You saie it standeth not vvith Gods promise to forsake his Churche a thousand yeres It is muche for you M. Harding openly to breake Gods cōmaundementes to defile his holy Sanctuarie to turne light into Darckenesse and Darckenesse into light and yet neuerthelesse to binde him too his promise Harding Goddes promise being infallible the Churche neuer erreth Se◠good Reader The. 7. Chapt. how absurdely and wretchedly M. Iewel answereth to this most euident and inuincible argument taken out of holy scripture I reason thus God promiseth he wil neuer Math. 28. no not one daie forsake his Churche Ergo if he forsooke it a thousand yeres as these menne tel vs he broke his promise M. Iewel answereth by a lewde kinde of Sophistrie called Petitio principij Petitio Principij that is the bringing forthe for proufe the thing it selfe whiche he ought to proue and whiche chiefely lieth in question and whiche wil neuer be graunted bicause it can neuer be proued That thing I saie he bringeth forth for a proufe and procedeth thereupon as vpon a matter vndoubted and graunted You M. Harding saith he haue broken Gods commaundementes you haue defiled his holy Sanctuarie c. Ergo you ought not to binde God to his promise This Antecedent or former proposition is the thing whiche he shoulde specially haue proued and then in Gods name he might thereof haue cōcluded what he coulde Now to bring it for proufe it selfe in respecte of true doctrine being most in question and vtterly denied by vs it is a lewde kinde of reasoning Againe beholde good Reader how he ouerturneth the Argument taken out of Gods worde I reason thus God hath promised his Churche should neuer erre Ergo it hath not erred these thousand yeres past he answereth The Church by our defaulte hath erred For we saith he haue turned light into Darckenesse c. Ergo God was not bounde to his promise What meane you M. Iewel As though God promising that his Churche should not erre prouided not also suche meanes whereby to preserue it from errour As though Gods promise depended of vs and of our wel doing As though any power of man or the worlde were hable to frustrate Gods promise As though if any suche power should haue come as you imagine the Popes power to haue darckened Christes Gospel Christe could not or would not haue foresene it or foreseing it would yet notwithstanding promise that Al daies he would be with his Churche Math. 28. Esaie 59. Iohn 14. and againe that the spirite of Truthe should assiste it for euer Thinke you M. Iewel that Christe our Sauiour forsawe not the Ruine or Darckenesse of his Churche of whiche so blasphemously you affirme Or thinke you that foreseing such an vniuersal Darckenesse to come and that for the space of so many hundred yeres together he would neuerthelesse haue said The Churches errour of a thousand yeres and the foreknovvledge of Christ can not stand together onlesse vve make Christe false of his promise as he said and haue so assuredly promised vnto his Apostles and in them vnto their Successours the perpetual assistance of the holy Ghoste the spirite of truthe with his Churche How could suche foreknowledge of Christe and suche a promise stand together Choose M. Iewel which you wil. The one of these you must of necessitie graunte that either Christe forsawe not the great Darckenesse to come whiche you saie you doo see and so you see more then Christe God and man euer sawe or foresawe or that Christe promised one thing and intended to performe an other thing He promised Al daies and for euer but intended to performe only fiue hundred yeres at the beginning and after the leape of a thousand yeres to graunte certaine yeres moe God knoweth how many O haynous blasphemie whereby Christe the Sonne of God the wisdome of his Father is proued either to haue ben ignorant of that whiche Protestantes knowe or elles to haue ben false of his promise But what neede many wordes M. Iewel him selfe immediatly after his former wordes to his owne condemnation saith Al menne be liers but God only is true Psal 50. 2. Tim. 2. and preuaileth when he is iudged God knoweth his owne Christe wil be euermore with his Churche That the light of truth hath not ben put out in the Churche yea although the whole Churche of Rome conspire against him Al this is true and the same doth euidently condemne you and your Religion Al menne be liers Protestantes for example whiche saie that these thousand yeres the Church hath ben corrupted and light hath ben turned into Darknesse God only is true Christes worde is true the Light of faith hath not benne turned into Darckenesse these thousand yeres nor any one yere at al onlesse Darckenesse and the Spirite of truth maie dwel together God knoweth his owne The Churche is his therefore he knoweth his Churche And bicause it is built vpon a hil it is euer sene and is neuer vnknowen Math. 5. Math. vlt. Christe wil be euermore with his Churche But with your Congregation or Synagog how shal I cal it he hath not ben these many hundred yeres for you saie in your Apologie The Pope hath blinded the whole worlde many hundred yeres and in this your Defence you saie againe that when Doctour Luther beganne to Publish the Gospel of Christe there was a general quietnesse suche as is in the night when folke be a sleepe c. Ergo your companie is not the Churche Let vs see vvhat you can ansvver to this argumēt M. Ievv Marke the Argument I require you and auoide it if you be hable To repete it once againe thus we saie Christe promiseth euermore to be with his Churche but Christe hath not ben euer more with you and your fellowes Ergo you and your fellowes are not the Churche The maior is true not only bicause it is Christes promise but also by your owne Confession The minor you confesse also in your Apologie it resteth ye discharge your selfe of the Conclusion Touching the minor the Pope you saie blinded the whole worlde many hundred yeres Then in those so many hundred yeres no man saw the light where then were they
so it be imagined to be planted in stockes stones trees grasse rootes fire water earth aier and brute beastes If not in multitude of personnes why is it said dominabitur à mari ad mare Psal 71. à flumine vsque ad terminos orbis terrarum he shal beare rule from sea to sea and from the riuer to the vttermost coastes of the world If not in multitude of persons what meant God the Father to say vnto Christ his Sonne Psal 2. as Dauid prophecied Aske of me and I wil geue vnto thee the Nations for thine inheritance and the endes of the earth for thy possession If not in multitude of personnes Apologie why triumphe ye so in your Apologie bicause al the worlde doth nowe beginne as you saie to beholde the light of your Gospel mightily spred abroade If not in multitude of personnes why is it said to Abraham Gen. 22. in semine tuo benedicentur omnes gentes in thy seede al nations shal be blessed Why is it said to the Apostles Math. vlt. euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos in nomine patris filij Spiritus sancti Goo ye and teache ye al nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghoste Why sayd Christe to his Apostles Act. 1. Eritis mihi testes in Hierusalem in omni Iudaea Samaria vsque ad vltimum terrae Ye shal beare witnesse of me in Hierusalem and in al Iewrie and in Samaria and vnto the vttermost partes of the worlde Knowe you not M. Iewel This opinion of M. Ievvel tendeth to the heresie of the Donatistes that S. Augustine allegeth al these and many mo such places against the Donatistes And what meane you After al these Heresies of our wretched time shal we haue also a Donatiste of you Menne marueile much why you are so contrarie to your selfe and that you lacke the discretion to discerne what maketh with you and what maketh against you What discretion was that to bring in S. Augustines authoritie that saith the Churche is called Catholique bicause it is spred throughout the whole worlde to prooue that the Catholique Churche standeth not in multitude of personnes Can the Churche be spred abrode into euery parte of the worlde without multitude of personnes Pag. 94. Or wil ye the two personnes you talke of out of Fortalitium Fidei M. Ievvel saieth the Catholique Churche standeth in the vveight of Truth and as for personnes it may stand in tvvo should bodily replenish euery quarter of the worlde and contrarie to your selfe graunt that one body may be in diuerse places at one time Or wil you the Weight of Truthe wherein the Catholique Churche standeth as you saie to wander rounde aboute the worlde tanquam accidens sine subiecto Or meane you by your two personnes out of Fortalitium alleged to appointe the Churche to be onely not as the Donatistes did in Aprica alone excluding al the quarters of the worlde besides whiche is more tolerable but in some two personnes as for example your selfe perhappes and M. Grindal or Frier Whitehed or Frier Couerdal or some one or other of the Puritanes and that al the rest of the Realme are no members of your Catholique Churche Or meane you in the excluding of the multitude of personnes to leaue your selfe some refuge if it happen your number to decay to the inuisible Churche as ye were wont to doo being driuen into any narrowe streightes by drifte of reason where menne shal haue as muche comforte of preaching of the Sacramentes and of good examples as the hungrie man hath comforte in his great hunger if it be his fortune to finde a stone Consider wel of your folie M. Iewel in the allegation of S. Augustine and weigh with your iudgement how contrary he is to your doctrine Aug. li. de Genes ad literaÌ„ imperfect cap. 1. He saith that the Catholique Churche is vniuersally perfited and halteth in nothing Meaning thereby that the Churche can not erre ne can not be deceiued This speaketh he expressely of the Churche that is spred throughout the whole worlde that is to say of the visible Churche Your doctrine is that the visible Churche doth erre hath erred and may erre as wel in Doctrine as in manners Thus you see your lucke is very il in the allegation of Fathers in that you beare vs in hande they make with you when they make fully against you Ibidem The truthe say you be it in many or in fewe is euer Catholique And what if it were in none at al Were it not also Catholique If no then the substance of truthe as it is truthe muste needes depende vppon some person and to haue the same called Catholique Lirinensis and S. Augustine telleth you that it must be euery where euermore and of al sortes of menne be beleeued If yea then haue ye once found out a Catholike truthe and a Catholique Churche planted not onely in a fewe personnes but in no personnes at al. The case that Fortalitium Fidei setteth out by waie of supposition which you allege though vntruly as your custom is for his wordes are not duo homines but duo veri fideles hath taken place in Adam and Eue Also in Noe and his smal familie But take the worlde as it is now ful of people I aske you whether it be agreable with Scripture to saie that the Catholique Church consisteth onely and alone in any two personnes as for exemple in M. Iewel if you wil and Sir Iames Proctor your worthy Chauncellour or in any two others But how saie you wil not the Prophete Dauid be founde altogether contrarie and put you in minde of the verse Postula à me Psal 2. dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam possessionem tuam terminos terrae Aske of me saith the Prophete in the person of God the Father speaking of the dilatation of Châ—istes Churche and I wil geue thee the Gentiles for thine inheritance and thy possession the vttermost Coastes of the worlde Can you M. Iewel make that narrow and smal to serue your turne which the whole Scripture openly auoucheth to be great and large Whereas you defende Luthers dogge eloquence by the great zeale he had of Goddes glorie and of his holy Temple Luthers eloqueÌ„ce defended by M. Ievvel eadem Pag. 94. Matthaeus Iudex after that you haue once read ouer Matthaeus Iudex a Lutheran and seene how Luther raileth at Oecolampadius and Zuinglius your graund Captaines yea the patriarkes of your progenie and considered by what names he calleth them saying they are as euil as the Deuil him selfe it is likely you wil repente that you euer became his aduocate who so roughly handleth them that are the founders of your owne Synagog In the very nexte line before you allege my wordeâ— with the vehemencie of whiche you doo greatly dislike your selfe in
we maie not beleeue the Pope if he be of a contrarie iudgement to Scripture Why did not you first proue that the Pope hath determined against the Canonical Scriptures wherin the whole weight of the mater lieth But your lucke is alway to leaue that vnproued which you should chiefly prooue and to encomber the Reader most with matters impertinent and quite besides the issue S. Augustines place would haue serued better to conclude that menne ought not to beleeue Heretiques whiche are certainely deceiued if they maie not beleeue Catholiques when they be deceiued But then where were your credite become who are proued to be suche Wolues and Traitours as S. Bernard spake of in Goncilio Remensi whiche Councel you allege so often times Pag. 104. Iewel Pag. 107. S. Hierome saithe Dices super Petrum fundatur Ecclesia Hieron Aduersus Iouinian lib. 1. Licet idipsum in alio loco super omnes Apostolos fiat cuncti claues regni coelorum accipiant ex aequo super omnes Ecclesiae fortitudo solidetur Ye vvel saie The Churche is founded vpon Peter Notvvithstanding in an other place the same thing is donne vpon al the Apostles and al receiue the keies of the kingdome of heauen and the strengthe of the Churche is founded equally vpon them al. Harding M. Iewel allegeth this and other places to his owne confusion The. 22. Chapt. What il fortune hath M. Iewel euer to allege the Fathers to his owne shame That so he doth it appeareth by many other and by this very place of S. Hierome against Iouinian whiche he allegeth maimedly cutting of the halfe sentence For the other halfe sentence is this tamen propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt Capite constituto Schismatis tollatur occasio Yet emong the twelue there is one chosen out to thintent he being ordeined Head the occasion of Schisme be taken awaie Thus S. Hierome there If I had nipte of such a notable peece of a sentence M. Iewel would haue benne at me with the Chinecough c. It had serued S. Hieromes turne better reasoning against Iouinian the Heretique who affirmed the state of Virgins to be of no greater perfection then the state of married personnes as M. Iewel doth also at this daie which heresie S. Hierome confuted neuer to haue graunted that S. Peter who had ben a married man was ordeined to be the Head of the Churche if it had benne as M. Iewel would persuade But bicause the truth was that S. Peter was appointed Head emong the Apostles S. Hierome doth not denie it but sheweth the cause why he was preferred before S. Ihon the Euangelist This is M. Iewels plaine dealing What is falsehod if this be not falsehod Iewel Pag. 107. S. Chrysostome of Peter saith thus Crysost in Matth. hâ—mil 83. Duplex crimen erat tum quia repugnauit tum quia caeteris seipsum praeposuit Peter vvas in double faulte bothe for that â—e vvithstoode Christe and also fâ—r that he set him selfe before the reste Harding The common saying is the blinde eateth many a flie Euen so doth M. Iewel for lacke of dewe consideration deuoure many a soule errour S. Chrysostome hath not one iote in this place that maketh for M. Iewel He speaketh of that stoute confidence that Peter had of him selfe when he said Mat. 26. Tvvo faultes coÌ„mitted by S. Peter Zacha. 13 Although they al meaning the reste of the Apostles shal be offended by thee I wil not be offended by thee Neuerthelesse he offended twise saith S. Chrysostome First in that he withstoode Christe and considered not what was alleged out of Zacharie the Prophet before who said I wil smite the shepeheard and the sheepe shal be scattered Yet S. Peter were it for the great loue and the affection that he bare to his Maister or were he touched with some ambition and trusted to wade through of him selfe without farther helpe of special grace warranted the mater that he would neuer fal from Christe There is one of his faultes The other faulte is Quoniam praeposuit se illis bicause he prefered him selfe before the other Apostles What meaneth that M. Iewel saie you What so euer you would menne should thinke of it it maketh no mater The right meaning of the place is that Peter offended the second time bicause he thought him selfe more sure as touching standing to his Maister then al the reste of the Apostles What is this to the meaning that you would faine wring out of this place that Peter was not Head of the Apostles In the selfe same Homilie before S. Chrysostome calleth him verticem Apostolorum the very Head and chiefest of al the Apostles EtiaÌ„ ipsum ApostoloruÌ„ verticem negare permisit Christ suffered saith he the toppe or head him selfe of the Apostles to denie him Againe S. Chrysostome faithe in an other Homilie as is afore tolde that Peter had committed vnto him the charge Chrysost hom 55. in Matt. and gouernment of the whole worlde Thus you may see how al thinges go against the heare as they say with you M. Iewel thus alwaies to allege suche sayinges out of the Fathers as further not your cause but rather hinder it So shal al they doo that fight against the Truth Ievvel Pag 107. Augustin epist 86. S. Augustine maketh Peter Felovve and Equal vvith the other Apostles Inter seconcorditer vixerunt Petrus Condiscipuli eius Peter and his felovves liued agreably together Harding Peter felow Disciple with the rest and yet Head of al by S. Augustine The 23. Chapt. Peter and they that were Christes Disciples with him liued concorditer for that is S. Augustines worde in good concorde together I graunt what conclude you thereof So did Christe and the Apostles liue in concorde and agreably together and yet there was a difference betwen them pardy If you harpe vpon the terme Condiscipuli Ioan. 15. Matt. 28. whiche you interprete felowes Christe calleth his Apostles in one place his frendes and in an other place his brothers And yet euery wise man confesseth a difference and that Christe was their Head and that they were his Disciples and subiectes Euen so maie we iudge of this Felowship that was betwen Peter and the reste of the Apostles How be it in the selfe same Epistle of S. Augustine S. Peter is called Caput Apostolorum Coeli ianitor Ecclesiae fundamentum Augustin epist 86. The Head of the Apostles the porter of Heauen and the foundation of the Churche Which saying not being S. Augustines owne but an other mans yet his sileÌ„ce in not speaking against it in that place proueth that he doth wel allow it And that to be euen so the same S. Augustine in a Sermone whiche he made to the people vnto whom he spake alwaies without al obscuritie the plaine truth calleth S. Peter Head of the Churche saying Augustin de tempo Ser. 124. Head of the churche Totius corporis
proufe is nedelesse the thing is manifest * Harding Here treating of Succession as thou seest Reader I haue among other things brought forth TertulliaÌ„ demauÌ„ding of the Heretikes the Original of their Churches Tertul. lib. de praescription and the Register of their Bishops succeding one an an other from the beginning til his tyme. Againe I haue alleged S. Augustine naming 38. Popes of Rome in order August Epist 165 and thereof coÌ„cluded that bicause neuer a one of them was a Donatist the Donatists were al Heretikes Whereupon I also concluded that seing among al the Popes from S. Peter til this daie none was of M. Iewels opinion he and his felowes the Zuinglians and Caluinistes must by the rule S. of Augustine be taken for Heretiques For the true Churche is where the true ordinarie and manifest Succession is from the Apostles til these our dayes This only I require of thee gentle reader that thou woldest vouchesafe to reade this matter through and not to iudge before al be heard For in deede following M. Iewelles confuse order of writing I could not dispose my thinges in such Methode and Order as the weight of the matter requireth Bicause the matter is of importance I intend to leaue out no parte of M. Iewelles woordes whereby he maie seeme to impugne the Catholique doctrine And by the treatie of this one poynte it will appeare what huge bookes we should write if we should directe a ful answer to euerie parte of his idle talke in the pretensed Defence conteined Thus then he beginneth Iewel Pag. 127. Here hath M. Harding taken some paines more then ordinarie He thought if he could by any coloure make the vvorld beleeue vve haue neither Bisshoppes nor Priestes nor Deacons this daie in the Church of England he might the more easily claime the vvhole right vnto himselfe And in deede if it vvere certaine that the religion and truth of God passeth euermore orderly by Succession and none othervvise then vvere Succession vvhereof he hath tolde vs so long a tale a verie good substantial Argument of the Truth Harding Irenaeus saith it is a certaine Rule to knowe the Truth by For hauing reckened twelue Popes who in order succeded after S. Peter to wit Linus Anacletus Clemens Euaristus Alexander Sixtus Telesphorus Hyginus Pius Aniceâ—â— Soter and Eleutherius who then was the twelfth Bishop from the Apostles Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 3. immediatly he saith thus Hac ordinatione successione ea quae est ab Apostolis in Ecclesia Traditio veritatis praeconiatio peruenit vsque ad nos Et est pleâ—issima haec â—stensio vnim eandem viuificatricem fidem esse quae in Ecclesia ab Apostolis vsque nunc sit coÌ„seruata troditain veritate By this order and Succession the Tradition and preaching of the truth whiche is in the Churche from the Apostles time came euen to our daies And this is a most ful declaration that the faith whiche is kept in the Churche and deliuered in truth from the Apostles time euen til this present hower is the one selfe same faith which is the causer of life and of saluation He saith it is a most ful declaration of the true and liuely faith And you wil confesse I trow that where that faith is there is the true Churche of God Such a Succession of Bishoppes in diuers countries we haue and can shew it from the Apostles time til this daie As the rew and order of Popes in al Chronicles doth shew to the eie and witnesseth to the vnderstanding But such a Succession M. Iewel and his fellowes haue not therefore by his owne confession we haue a good substantial Argument of the Truth Iewel Pag. 127. But Christe saith In cathedra Moysi sederunt Scribae Pharisaei by order of succession the scribes Math. 22. and Pharisees sitte in Moyses chaier Harding Wel handled M. Iewel You bring these wordes as though Christe had spoken them in the reproche of Succession Whereas Christ in that place made an ArgumeÌ„t for Succession in this wise Super cathedram Moysi sederunt Scriba Pharisaei Math. 23. omnia ergo quaecunque dixerint vobis seruate facite Vpon the chaier of Moyses the Scribes and Pharisees haue sitten Therefore kepe ye and do ye what so euer they saie vnto you or commaund you to kepe Could you not see that Ergo M. Iewel whiche is to saie Therefore Could you not perceiue that Christ made a plaine argument why and why only the Scribes and Pharisees should be obeied The matter goeth as if in moe wordes it had ben thus said The Scribes and Pharisees be naughtie men their workes are not to be folowed they â—ie heauy and importable burdens laying them on mens shoulders Math. 23. but they themselues wil not so much as once mâ—â—â— them with their finger They do al their workes for a shew Thus Christ him selfe doth paint them forth al whiche notwithstanding for onely Successions sake bicause by order of Succession they sit in Moyses chaier which my father and I haue planted in respecte thereof doo ye and kepe what so euer they commaund you to doo and kepe Mark the vvord of keeping Marke that he bindeth the people to obeie the very Scribes for Successions sake and to obeye them in keeping and obseruing the former lawes and rites To keepe I saye Beware of that Bishop who not succeding but vsurping the Chaier of good men as M. Iewel doth hauing iustled him selfe into the Chaier of good S. Osmund and others mo in the Churche of Sarisburie doth yet commaund the people not to keepe thinges but to cast them away These nevv Bisshoppes vvil not the people to kepe their faith but to chaÌ„ge their faith There is no Bishop of this newe Religion that commaundeth the people to keepe their olde faith and law but alwaies he biddeth them to change it But Christe bad the people to doo that whiche the Pharisees commaunded them to keepe and not to folow their deedes The Pharisees killed Christe but by keeping their lawes and Orders they should neuer haue come thereto If euer place of holy Scripture made for any truth in the Gospel this place which M. Iewel bringeth against Succession maketh for it and so for it that it can neuer be auoided What Doctor euer wrote vpon the holy Scriptures who might not now be brought for a witnesse of this my assertion S. Augustine saith that Christe made the people secure concerning euil Rulers Ne propter illos doctrinae salutaris Cathedra descreretur August Epist 166. in qua coguntur etiam mali bona dicere Neque enim suae sunt quae dicunt sed Dei qui in cathedra Vnitatis doctrinam posuit veritatis Lest for their sakes the chaier of holesom Doctrine should be forsaken in the whiche yea wicked men are forced to saie that whiche is good For the thinges whiche they saie are not their owne but Gods who in
example caÌ„not be fitly applied to M. Ievels purpose S. Augu. speaketh of doctrine M. Ievv of a particular facte bicause no Bishop of Rome taught that doctrine which they taught And you turne al the mater of doctrine to a manner of doing It were surely hard to proue that euer any one Pope not only of those 38. whom S. Augustine nameth but also of al the rest til this hower did say priuate Masse For if M. Iewel should put me to the proufe that Paulus tertius or Pius quartus Federicus Fregosius that noble and learned Bishop of Salerno or Bellaius that worthy Bishop of Paris or any the like who liued in our time had said Priuate Masse and that in such wise as if I were not hable to shew him when they said it where they said it and who were witnesses thereof I should not be credited for want of due proufe I were not hable to proue it either for that I liued not at Rome and in the places where they made their abode or elles bicause though I liued in those places I was not so curious nor careful to know what they did therin And so it would followe by this fond collection of M. Iewels Logique that euen yet to this daie no Pope nor other Bishop faith priuate Masse bicause I can not proue it and shew the circumstance where when and how it was donne Thinke you M. Iewel that the Religion of Christe dependeth vpon any particular facte of menne Is that your Diuinitie Al the Popes and al the Apostles agree with vs in Doctrine bicause wee can shewe diuerse Churches whiche haue benne planted of them and haue kepte from time to time the Religion whiche they receiued from hande to hande of them This is our demonstration of the Truthe This is that whiche Christe allowed when he commaunded his disciples to doo and keepe that which the Scribes and Pharisees who sate in Moyses chaire bad them to keepe and doo Euen so doo we M. Iewel we say priuate Masse so ye wil needes cal it bicause the Popes and other bishops who sit in Peters and in the other Apostles chaire doo tel vs that it is lawful to say priuate Masse And we doubte not also but that it hath benne vsed for euer to be said though the people either were not present or being present would not receiue with the priest as it is plaine in S. Chrysostome Chrysost homil 61. ad Pop. AntiocheÌ„ who stode at the Altare and did that which belonged to priestly duetie that is to say he said Masse and looked for some communicantes to come to receiue the communion but he stode in vaine for any that would come to him Yet did he stil come to the altare when so either the feaste or his deuotion required Iewel Pag. 129. But vvherefore telleth vs M. Harding this long tale of Succession Harding Bicause it is a special marke of the true Churche as a Lib. 3. cap. 3. Ireneus b De Praescript Tertullian c Lib. 2. contra Parmen Optatus and S. d Ep. 165. Augustine doo teach and your Church hath no Succession that is thirty yeres olde nor any Bishop at al lawfully planted But ours hath a Succession of a thowsand fiue hundred threescore and eight yeres with a great number of Bishops in al countries and times Ievvel Haue these men their ovvne Succession in so safe recorde VVho vvas then the bishop of Rome next by succession vnto Peter VVho vvas the second vvho the third vvho the fourth Irenaeus reckeneth them together in this order Petrus Linus Anacletus Clemens Epiphanius thus Petrus Linus Cletus Clemens Optatus thus Petrus Linus Clemens Anacletus Clemens saith that he him selfe vvas next vnto Peter and then must the reckening go thus Petrus Clemens Linus Anacletus Hereby it is cleare that of the first foure bishops of Rome M. Harding can not certainely tel vs vvho in order succeded other And thus talking so much of Succession they are not vvel hable to blase their ovvne Succession Harding Here is a deepe consideration I promise you What if al writers being sure of these foure Bishops of Rome yet be not sure who was before other Is therefore our Succession vncertaine We are wel assured that Peter was the first and after him there was a Second a Third and a Fourth We are also assured that the same were Linus Cletus Clemens Anacletus And what skilleth it vnto vs The true order of the first Popes succeding one another Damasus in pontificalt Clemens epist. 1. TertulliaÌ„ De praescr who was Second who Third who Fourth But now al this busines is ended if we make a distinction And that is this S. Peter being yet aliue made two Suffraganes Linus and Cletus who might doo the outward busines of his office whiles him selfe did attende to praier and preaching So saith Damasus in the life of S. Peter Againe when S. Peter saw his death to be at hand he chose Clement to be his successour as we reade in S. Clementes epistle and in Damasus Yea Tertullian also confesseth that the Church of Rome sheweth Clement to haue benne ordeined of Peter Thus were there three Bishops in Rome but not three Bishops of Rome when S. Peter died of the whiche S. Clement had most right to succede But he hauing seene before the good experience of Linus and Cletus did yelde the administration to them one after the other first to Linus and then to Cletus after whose death Clement him selfe gouerned the Apostolike See And after him came Anacletus whom some Greeke Writers tooke to be one with Cletus Thus are al matters reconciled DiscussioÌ„ of al doubte touching thorder of the first Popes in Rome Ruffin in Praefat. ad lib. Recognit And that not by me onely but by Ruffinus eleuen hundred yeres past who also receiued it of his Forefathers He saith Quidam requirunt quomodo cùm Linus Cletus in vrbe Roma ante Clementem hunc fuerint episcopi ipse Clemens ad Iacobam scribens sibi dicat a Petro docendi Cathedram traditâ—m â—cuius rei hanc accepimus esse rationem Quòd Linus Cletus fuerunt quidem ante Clementem episcopi in vrbe Roma sed superstite Petro vt illi episcopatus curam gererent ipse vero Apostolatus impleret officium Sicut inuenitur etiam apud Caesaream fuisse vbi cùm ipse esset presens Zachaeum tamen à se ordinatum habebat Episcopum Et hoc modo vtrumque verum videbitur vt illi ante Clementem numerentur Episcopi Clemens tamen post obitum Petri docendi susceperit sedem Some aske this question howe Clement him selfe writing to Iames saith that Peter leafte to him the Chaire of teaching whereas Linus and Cletus were Bishops in the Citie of Rome before this Clement Of whiche thing we haue learned this to be the reason That Linus and Cletus were bishops in the Citie of Rome but in the life
that there is no succession in doctrine Now I saie ronne ouer al the Bisshops of Rome and you can saie of neuer a one this man coÌ„ming into his Predecessours See did oppugne his doctrine or preached with the Churche of Romes contentation against that which was in vse before So that in Rome al thinges are euen at this day concerning faith as S. Peter leafte them For euery man hath agreed in outward Decree senteÌ„ce and profession with al the predecessours and successours Iewel Pag. 132. S. Bernard saith Quid prodest si canonicè eligantur In concil Remen non canonicè viuant VVhat auaileth it if they be chosen in order and liue out of order Harding It auaileth nothing to the euil liuer but yet it auaileth muche to him that obeieth the good and true doctrine of the euil teacher Iewel So saith S. Augustine Ipsum characterem multi lupi Cont. Donatist lib. 6. 1. q. 3. vocantur caâ—es Character vvhat it signifieth in the Sacraments lupis imprimunt The outvvarde marke or right of a bisshop many geue to vvolues and be vvolues them selues Harding By Character is not meant an outward marke but rather an inwarde marke and print which through the receiuing of certaine Sacramentes is imprinted in the soules of them who receiue them of whiche sorte are Baptisme Confirmation and holy Orders And those sacramentes being once receiued caÌ„ not be repeated or be againe receiued of the same person For the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud although it be an outward signe yet it leaueth not any Character or suche inward print in the soule as may be no more repeated But letting that errour passe of the true interpretation of this worde Character I graunt that Heretikes may baptize heretikes euen without the Churche and the Baptisme shal stand although it be vnlawfully ministred What maketh that against the Suceession of Bishops It rather proueth that seing the Sacramentes may be ministred if not to saluation of them that are of discretion yet truly and really without the true Churche there must be an other rule taken to know the true Church by besides the administration of Sacramentes And that true and certaine rule is the perpetual Succession of the See Apostolike Iewel Pag. 132. Therefore the auncient father Irenaus geueth vs this good counsel Eis qui sunt in Ecclesia presbyteris obedire oportet Iren. lib. 4. ca. 43. qui successionem habent ab Apostolis qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum secundùm beneplacitum patris acceperunt It becommeth vs to obey those Priestes in the Churche vvhich haue their succession from the Apostles and together vvith the Succession of their bishoprikes according to the good vvil of God the Father haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truthe Harding Al this maketh against you M. Iewel For seing you can shew no such Priestes hauing their Succession from the Apostles and hauing receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth whom ye doo obeye it is certaine that ye haue not the gifte of the truthe among you On the other side seing we haue Priestes that is to say Bishoppes of Rome who are also Priestes which haue their SuccessioÌ„ from the chiefe and most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule and seing such Priestes and Bishops keeping stil the same faith and doctrine from man to man haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth according to the good wil of God the Father doubtelesse the vndoubted marke of the truth is with vs only and not with you at al who haue no Succession at al of any Priestes and much lesse of any suche Priestes that succede lineally from the Apostles them selues Iewel 132. S. Cyprian being likevvise charged for dissenting from his predecessours Lib. 2. epist 3. ansvvereth thus Si quis de antecessoribus meis c. If any of my predecessours haue not obserued and kepte the same that our Lorde hath taught vs both by his example and also by his coÌ„maundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doo the like can hope for no pardon being nowe admonished and instructed of our Lorde Harding Cough vp man it wil choke you Phy. vvhat a fowle corruption is this Lib. 2. epist 3. if you let it tarry within your throte Here is but halfe the bone there is yet in S. Cyprian no ful point it foloweth in the same sentence Vt calicem Dominicum vino mixtum secundùm quod Dominus obtulit offeramus We can hope for no pardon who are now admonished and instructed of our Lorde that we should offer our Lordes chalice mixed with wine accordingly as our Lorde offered the same Either M. Iewel tooke this saying of S. Cyprian vpon the Germaine credite as he found it noted in their bookes and then his false brethren deceiued him or els he wrote it out of S. Cyprian himselfe and then his studie and wil was to deceiue vs. He would ful gladly haue geuen vs an authoritie that we might forsake the example of our Predecessours but he was loth we should see the thing wherewith the authoritie was exemplified For if at any time he say al he is sure to speake against him selfe and no wonder because he speaketh against the truth and euerie good saying euermore agreeth with the trtuh First he corrupteth S. Cyprian in putting in meis for nostra my predecessours in stede of our predecessours For S. Cyprian speaketh not of his owne Succession but of what soeuer Priest or Bishoppe that liued before his time Againe S. Cyprian spake not of any such custome as had ben generally vsed of al Bishops for then it had ben of ful authoritie but of that which some one man vsed priuatly and without keeping the lawe of Succession And therefore S. Cyprian said Si quis if any man Thirdly the thing he spake of was that some were said to offer water alone in our Lordes supper and not wine withal Now saith he if any before our time haue vsed to offer water and not wine mingled with water wel he may be pardoned by our Lordes mercie but we that are admonished and instructed to offer our Lordes chalice mingled with wine that is to say consisting not of water alone but of water and wine mingled together we caÌ„ not be pardoned except we mingle water with wine and so do offer our Lordes Chalice as he him selfe did offer it Nowe applie this geare Christian Reader to our new brethrens deedes Do they offer our Lordes Chalice at al Or do they graunt that our Lord in his Supper offered it Do they mingle water with wine at the time of consecrating the mysteries If they do neither of both what folie yea what madnesse was it for M. Iewel to bring foorth these wordes of S. Cyprian thereby to accuse him selfe and his owne Communion as not obseruing that whiche our Lorde commaunded to be obâ—â—rued It is a worlde to see how these men applye the witnesses of
Foxe hath raked together into that Donghil of his stincking Martyrs So then I trust good Reader this my shorter but more fruiteful trauaile shal wel content thee In which I haue defended and iustified the chiefe matters of the Catholique doctrine by M. Iewel impugned and therewith ouerthrowen his weake Defence In sundrie other pointes also whiche depende of Doctrine I haue detected his great and manifolde Vntruthes Neither haue I ioined issue with him in any point wherein I haue not sufficiently proued him either deceiued or a deceiuer Wherein as Ignorance maie stande him in some excuse for the one so muste he beare the gilte of malice for the other Eche pointe here is not handled with like diligence and like exactenesse I graunt for the matter hath not so required Yet where I haue benne least disposed to take paines and founde my selfe most weary in answering his friuolous Obiections thou shalt finde the truthe sufficiently mainteined and M. Iewel fully refuted If anywhere thou espie defecte or insufficiencie impute the blame to me If in any parte I shal seeme to haue donne wel take thou the profite geue God the praise Thomas Harding A DETECTION OFVNTRVTHES IN M. IEWELS EPISTLE TO THE QVENE THE FIRST BOOKE How vntruly and how slaunderously M. Iewel hath charged his Aduersarie with certaine hateful crimes in his Epistle to the Quenes Maiestie set before his pretensed Defence of the Apologie The First Chapter WHEREAS M. Iewel in the Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie set before his pretensed Defence of the Apologie chargeth me with diuers pointes whereby bothe to discredite the Catholique Doctrine and to stirre her Maiestie to indignation against me and other learned menne here who haue confuted his manifold erroures and detected sundrie his false partes wherewith dangerously he seduceth her Maiesties Subiectes least bothe I by my silence should seeme to acknowledge my selfe gilty of the thinges he chargeth me with and least others might be induced to beleeue him thinking him not to be so voide of dew reuerence and shame as so farre to abuse her Maiesties credulitie in these matters who hath no leisure or listeth not to examine the same I haue thought it conuenient and necessarie before I come to any parte of his directe answer to my Confutation of the Apologie to cleare my selfe of what so euer he imputeth vnto me in that Epistle and to shewe how al that he hath written against me in the same is vtterly false and sclaunderous And bicause I cannot better and in plainer wise performe it then by laying forth as it were the booke where eche thing is said whereof he taketh holde and by reporting myne owne sayinges which he hath falsified and vntruly reported Let it not seeme strange nor be lothesom vnto thee good Reader that being driuen vnto it by this necessitie I bring forth againe vnto thee certaine places before written and conteined in my former Treaties How lothsom soeuer it be thee to reade and mee to repeate againe certaine thinges before vttered verely it is the chiefe waie by whiche in this case the truthe maie clearely be opened Thus then entreth M. Iewel his accusation against me M. Iewel in the epistle to the Quene pag. 2. ad finem M. Harding doubteth not to seeke quarelles against vs euen in that vve mainteine 1 The Baptisme of Christian Infantes 2 The proceeding and 3 Godhed of the Holy Ghoste 4 The Faith of the holy and glorious Trinitie and 5 the General and Catholique profession of the Common Creede Harding To confute errours and to declare the Truthe is not to seeke Quarelles Neither ought he to be called a Quareller who of two waies sheweth whiche is the better Touching these fiue pointes First I finde no faulte with M. Iewel nor with his felowes for that they mainteine the Baptisme of Infantes For therein I hold with them The Baptisme of infantes no where reproued To my remembrance I speake not of it of purpose in my whole booke of the Confutation nor in my Reioindre only where I proue that certaine great and necessarie pointes are to be beleeued which be not expressed in the holy Scriptures In the defence pag. 191. Cōfutatiō fol. 84. a. bicause these Ministers in their Apologie saie that al thinges needful for our saluation are abundantly and fully comprehended in the Scriptures among sundrie other thinges whiche I demaunde to be shewed vs in the Scriptures I aske where in al the Bible they finde that Infantes ought to be Baptized And wel that question might I demaunde for proufe of that I intended in that place neither can it be founde expressely commaunded or spoken of I am wel assured Wherefore whiles M. Iewel accuseth me to the Queenes Maiestie of seeking Quarelles against him in this point he sheweth vs in him selfe a perfite paterne of a Quareller If I should here appose him in his owne wordes and aske him Baptisme of Christian Infantes what he meaneth by mainteining the Baptisme of Christian Infantes I thinke rather he would saie I were a seeker of Quarelles Yet would I faine heare what he would answere For what Is he of the opinion that suche Infantes as be borne of Christian Parentes be Christians before they be baptized If they be Christians what neede they to be Christened If they haue neede to be Christened why doth he cal them before Baptisme receiued Christian Infantes Is any Man Woman or Child to be called a Christian before he be Christened Latet anguis in herba There lieth a Pad in the strawe Perhappes he thinketh it is not yet time to spette out the poison of that heresie whiche it semeth he hath suckt out of Caluin against the necessitie of Baptisme of Infantes whose parentes be faithful This point I touched in my Confutation of the Apologie Fol. 67. b. Neither durst M. Iewel yet to be plaine when he commeth to that place in his Defence where he had good cause to treate fully of it and to deliuer the worlde from that Suspicion worthily conceiued and to resolue vs whether he thinke Baptisme of Christian Parentes Children to be necessarie or no. Verely by saying that by Goddes Free Election they be pure Ievvel in the Defence Pag. 250. and holy and by allowing al that Caluine saith thereof he geueth out a secrete signification his meaning to be that in them Baptisme is not vtterly necessarie These mennes Doctrine if I be not deceiued tendeth to this issue that at length Baptisme shal be nothing els but a Signe marke badge or recognizance of a Christian Whereof it must folowe that as a man maie be a Souldiour a Seruing man or a Reteiner to a Noble man though he lacke his Captaines or his Masters Badge or Recognizance likewise so many as be borne of Christian Parentes be also Christians though they neuer receiue Baptisme By the Premisses of these mennes Doctrines we haue iuste cause to thinke that at length they wil teache that the very Signes
wordes be simply beleeued let my Confutation of the Apologie be vewed and there I shal be founde touching these odious pointes of these princes Variance with the Popes of their time to haue vttered these woordes farre otherwise then he here reporteth Confut. fol. 339. b. Concerning the case between these three Kinges of England and the Bishoppes of Rome for the tyme being I say litle If they did wel and the Bishoppes euil they haue their rewarde the other their punishment If otherwise or how so euer ech one at Gods iudgement shal haue his deserued measure But be it graunted al were true ye say though we know the more parte to be false Henrie the secōd S. Thomas Arch bishop of Canturbury King Iohn What though king Henrie the Second were euil entreated of Pope Alexander about the murthering of S. Thomas the Archebishop of Canturburie and King Iohn likewise of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius the thirde about the stirre he made against the Church for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop of Canturburie Henrie the .8 This is no iust cause to forsake the Churche King Henrie the eigth likewise of the Popes in our time about matters yet fresh bleeding Is this a good cause why ye who haue nothing to doo with Princes matters now ended and buried should forsake the Churche change your Faith change the whole order of Religion and condemne al before your time for a thousand yeres Bicause the Bishoppes of Rome haue done euil wil ye geue ouer the Faith of the Churche of Rome Bicause the Popes did wronge to Princes wil ye doo wrong to your selues Bicause the Popes were at Variance with these three Kinges wil ye be at Variance with God Bicause they excommunicated them wil ye excommunicate your selues I haue heard of a foole that being striken of one standing a looffe of would eftsones strike an other that stood next him But I neuer heard of any so foolish that seeing an other striken would therefore kill him selfe Verely your Apostasie and departing from the Catholique Churche is to weightie a matter to be defended with so light a reason Thou maist see good Reader that here I take not vpon me in Defence of those Popes to answere vnto these matters nor shortely as M. Iewel saith nor at length nor in light manner nor in sad manner which matters he calleth Tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe The more cleerely to shewe how litle good matter our new Vsurping Clergie haue to bring for the excuse and Defence of the Alteration they haue made in Religion and of their Schisme and departing from the Catholike Churche bicause in their Apologie they alleged these Practises of the Popes only I demaunde their tale for their better aduantage being graunted to be true whiche yet I saied expressely was knowen to be false for the more parte what reliefe their cause could haue thereby and how the euil doinges of the Bishoppes of Rome if it were graunted they did euil therein could be drawen to Defence of their owne worse doing To whiche demaunde M. Iewel by his silence in his pretensed Defence maketh al the worlde witnesse Defence Pag. 733. how vnhable he is to answere Howbeit in that place he vseth his common sleight by cutting awaie the chiefe parte of my tale wherein lyeth the weighte and so dischargeth him selfe of the paines of answering Any booke may so sone be answered Touching these Popes and these Kinges when M. Iewel or any of his felow Ministers shal truely and with sufficient reason proue vnto vs that Henrie the Second did wel when he gaue occasion that the blessed Martyr S. Thomas Archebishop of Canturburie was murdered that al King Iohns attemptes against the Churche for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop and primate of the same prouince were iuste and right and that King Henrie the eight did wel and according either to the holy Scriptures or doctrine of the auncient and learned Fathers when he tooke vpon him to be Supreme Head in earth of the Churche of England immediatly vnder Christe whiche no temporal prince euer tooke vpon him before and likewise when for maintenance of the same title he hanged headded and quartered so many holy and learned men of al degrees now blessed Sainctes and crowned Martyrs in heauen when I say either he or they or any of them shal proue this much vnto vs in such sorte as I said before then wil we say with them ô worthy Kinges ô naughty Popes yea then wil we saie too ô the crowe is white Neuerthelesse I doo not here iustifie al the deedes of the Popes But what so euer they did that is no sufficient cause why these menne should forsake their Faith and departe from the felowship of the Churche Item there Iewel But concerning the Maiestie and right of Kinges and Emperours M. Harding telleth vs they haue their first authoritie by the positiue Lavve of Nations and can haue no more povver then the people hath of vvhom they take their temporal iurisdiction Confutat Fol. 318. b. Harding If I haue herein spoken euil geue witnesse against me of euil Ye would faine finde a faulte I perceiue if ye wiste wherein You seeme not wel to vnderstand what you saie nor whereof you affirme But you allege the Scriptures Per me Reges regnant Prouer. 8. By me Kinges doo reigne And there is no power but from God very learnedly forsooth As though the auctoritie Rom. 13. that Princes haue by the positiue lawe of Nations and the power whiche they haue of the people were not of God as who vseth that meane to conueie that power vnto them Item there Iewel M. Harding euen in the selfe same booke vnder certaine general threates chargeth your Maiestie vvith disordered presumption by the example of Ozias the vvicked King vpon vvhom as he vntruly saith God sent his vengeance for the like Confut. fol. 298. a. Harding You would faine the Queenes Maiestie should conceiue hatred against me I perceiue M. Iewel and thereto you applie al your skil and cunning But Sir who deserueth more thankes at God and the Princes for the time being he that telleth them the Truthe and in time geueth warning to beware of Goddes Vengeance before it be to late or he that for his owne wordly interest holdeth his peace and leadeth them into a wrong way from the whiche if they returne not backe they are sure at length to feele either the temporal smarte of Goddes Vengeance in this life or the euerlasting smarte in the life to come Ye flatter ye flatter your Princes M. Iewel ye deceiue them ye blinde them ye worke al meanes possible that the Truthe be not brought to their vnderstanding least were it knowen and of them perceiued ye should be turned out of your welthy roumes and driuen againe to Geneua I had almost said Gehenna from whence ye came Certainely ye shutte vp the kingdome of Heauen from Princes and others so
rather then Confutations of his and his felowes false doctrine and Defences of the Catholique Faith Whereas this muche I could not do but that it behoued me to deale with him who aboue al others most busily impugneth Gods truth and consequently with those of his side I thought it not good for ryuing of harde blockes to vse softe wedges And though I had litle hope by any way to ryue a sunder the harde knotte wherein their hartes and Heresie are faste growen together yet that some others by them enuegled might be brought to a better minde who not being so desperate be neuerthelesse hardly withdrawen frō their errours by reason of long custom and carnal libertie by the same mainteined I iudged the stile and order of writīg that I haue vsed to be most profitable for their behalfe For they seing the Captaines of deceiuers so with iuste sharpnes rebuked and their Heresies with deepe strokes so deadly wounded wil the rather be induced to abhorre their former errours to bethinke themselues and by their reproufe learne to amend their owne faultes as oftentimes young Princes and noble children be corrected with beholding correction ministred to other children of baser condicion Howbeit if al should be accompted to vse vnciuile and vncourteous speache out of whose writinges such wordes may be gathered as M. Iewel reproueth in me I knowe not what Doctor what Father my escape that reproche Neither S. Cyprian wrote al thinges so Martyrlike nor S. Basil so meekely nor S. Ambrose so grauely nor S. Chrysostom so sweetly nor S. Augustine so temperately nor S. Gregorie so humbly but with searche no smal multitude of suche wordes might easily be founde in their learned and godly workes with no lesse vehemencie of spirite vttered against Heretiques and other wicked persons What shal I say of S. Hierom whose vtterance against Heretiques of lesse malice and against other men of more honestie then these men are of is such that to many he seemeth to thunder and to lighten rather then to speake But what speake I of men I reporte me to those that haue perused the bookes of the olde and newe Testament whether the like tokens of ernest zeale and iuste griefe be not oftentimes founde in the Prophetes and the Apostles them selues who were the Secretaries of the holy Ghoste Sundrie wordes founde in the holy Scripture of more Sharpenes then they are which M. Iewel reproueth in mee The wordes of the Psalmes be not vnknowen to many Psal 13. They be abominable in their studies saith the Prophet Psal 13. Vnder their lippes lieth the Poison of Serpentes Psal 13. Their throte is like an open Sepulchre Their woordes be dartes Psal 54. Downe to hel with them whiles they be alyue Ibid. Their teeth are arowes their tong is a sharp sword Psa 56. They are become like Serpentes Psal 57. They haue whetted their tonges like Serpentes Psal 139. The poison of the Aspis is vnder their lippes Ibid. Thou hast spoken like a foole said Iob to his wife Iob. 2. According to his name he is a foole said Abigail of her Husband Nabal 1. Reg. 25. Thou hast plaid the foole said Samuel to king Saul 1. Re 13 The number of fooles is infinite Eccle. 1. Thou lyest in the head said Daniel to the wicked Iudge Daniel 13. The Prophetes are like roaring Lions and the Princes be Wolues catching their pray Ezechiel 22. The Princes be like roaring Lions and the Iudges be Wolues Sophon 3. Thy Prophets Israel be like Foxes in the wildernes Eze. 13 Wo be to the sinneful nation people laden with iniquitie the wicked brood mischeuous children said Esaie Esa 1. O my people Ribauldes oppresse thee Esaie 3. Agayne ô ye Princes of Sodome ô ye people of Gomorrha said he Ibid. They are become rancke Staliens they ney eche one at his neighbours wife saith Ieremie Ieremie 5. O thou Canaans broode and not sprong of Iuda ô thou old theefe said Daniel to the vngodly Iudge Dan. 13. The children of the deuil came out of thee saith Moyses Deuter. 13. The men of Gabaa were the children of the Deuil Iud. 19 One of the Daughters of Belial 1. Reg. 1. The sonnes of the Deuil 1. Reg. 10. A man of the Deuil named Siba 2. Reg. 20. Many Dogges haue becompassed me about saith Dauid of Christe Psal 21. Saue my life from the hand of the Dogge Ibid. They are dumme Dogges that can not barke Esai 56. As a Dogge that returneth to his Vomite so is a foole that doubteth his folie Prouer. 26. He that holdeth an il woman taketh a Scorpion saith the Wiseman Eccle. 26. Sharpe and bitter wordes vttered in the new Testament But now let vs see whether we may not finde speaches of like vehemencie and sharpenesse in the new Testament where the grace of the holy Ghoste is shewed more abundantly If it be muche to cal a man a beast what is it to cal men Vipers Wolues Foxes Dogges Swine O ye Progenie of Vipers said S. Iohn the Baptist to the Scribes and Saducees Matth. 3. O ye Serpentes and Vipers broode said Christe him selfe to the Scribes and Pharisees Matth. 23. O generation of Vipers said the blessed Baptiste to the people as S. Luke reporteth Luke 3. Inwardly they are rauening Wolues saith Christ of false Preachers Matth. 7. Rauening Wolues shal entre in amongst you saith S. Paule Act. 20. I send you forth as sheepe among Wolues said Christ to the Apostles Matth. 10. Say vnto that Foxe quod Christe of Herode Luke 13. Geue not a holy thing to Dogges Matth. 7. It is not good to geue the childrens bread to Dogges said Christe Matth. 15. Haue an eye to the Dogges saith S. Paule Philip. 3. Like a Dogge that commeth againe to his Vomit saith S. Peter 2. Pet. 2. Caste not your pearles before Swyne saith Christe Matth. 7. Like a Swyne wallowing againe in the durte sayth S. Peter 2. Pet. 2. Go behinde me Sathan said Christ to Peter his Apostle Math. 16. Many yong wemen are turned backe and gon after Sathan 1. Tim. 5. Satan dwelleth among you Apocalyp 2. The Synagog of Satan Apocalyp 3. The Deuil taketh away the worde out of their harte Luke 8. One of you is a Deuil said our Lord of Iudas Ioan. 6. Ye are of your Father the Deuil it was saied to the Iewes Ioan. 8. The children of the Deuil are manifest saith S. Iohn 1. Iohan. 3. The Ministers of Satan 2. Cor. 11. They are holden captiue of the Deuil at his wil. 2. Timoth. 2. O ful of al deceit ô thou sonne of the Deuil said S. Paule to Elimas Act. 13. False Prophetes lying Maisters they denie God they bye and sel you they are like vnreasonable beastes they haue their eyes ful of aduoutrie they folow the way of Balaam of Bosor founteines without water clowdes tossed with the windes c. 2. Petr. 2. Disobedient vaine ianglers deceiuers of mindes abominable to al good worke reprobates Tit. 1.
benne commended most for the spirite of meekenes the same thowgh toward other offenders haue shewed them selues like milde Moyses yet hauing to do with Heretikes commonly haue demeaned them selues like earnest Elias If lyers should be entreated in like sorte as true reporters slaunderers and backebyters as faithful frendes heretikes as catholikes Apostates as stedfast Christians blasphemers as saintes truth should be iniured wickednes flattered vertue misprised Of whom the truth was impugned or resisted with malice them litle spared either the Prophetes or the Apostles or Christ him selfe Thus may al this matter for which M. Iewel hath made so much adoo seme to haue benne sufficiently answered before Neither with more truth hath he alleaged that other saying of myne which standing by it selfe alone as he hath placed it in his booke immediatly after the former falsified saying geueth out a colourable shew as if I condemned my selfe Thus he layeth it forth Ievvel Againe in the same Confutation There is no man of vvisedom or honestie that vvould vvith so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie fol. 300. b. Harding But in that saying M. Iewel I rebuke the impudent lyes and slaunders of him that wrote the Apologie who there raileth immoderatly at the Bishops whom the holy Ghost Actâ— 20. as S. Paule saith hath ordeined to gouerne the Church of God saying that neither they knowe nor wil knowe the thinges perteining to their charge nor set a iote by any point of Religion saue that which concernes their belly and riot And there further vncharitably he burdeneth them as if they were so wicked as to commaund Christian Princes to destroy al Religion and to crucifie againe Christe him selfe In my answer to this among other wordes thus I say Confut. 300. b. Put the wordes of this railing Defenders amplification aside and the whole sentence that riseth of al this talke is only this It is not reason Bishops be iudges in matters of faith and not secular Princes Now to geue a colour hereto and to moue Princes to take the matter into their owne handes they say as becommeth them and none els For there is no man of wisedome or honestie that would with so impudent lyes diminish his credite and with so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie Neither be these men so hote in this matter for any loue they beare to secular Princes For if any such Prince be not a fauorer of their Gospel then haue they a Blast of a Trompet to blow him downe as it appeareth by their bookes made against the monstrous regiment of women and by the good obedience their French brethren the Huguenotes kepe toward their king in France Other examples of the like Euangelical obedience in other countries I leaue to mennes remembrance The circumstance of this whole matter considered which may better be seene in my booke I reporte me to the discrete Reader whether any iust cause be ministred to M. Iewel to pike quarel to the wordes by him alleaged specially if they be wholly and truly alleaged But why did he nippe of those foure wordes with so impudent lyes Doth not this discouer his falsehode and shew of whom that saying was meant It semed good to such a lyer to shifte away the mention of Lyes from the Readers eyes that he might not seme charged therewith Thus al his aduantage standeth in falsehode But what shal a man say To require plainenesse and truth of such a Defender of vntruthe were to require him either to vnsay al that he hath said or to say nothing at al. For certaine it is falsehode can neuer be defended by truth Now it remaineth that I require the Reader to conferre the peeces of sentences that M. Iewel hath culled out of my writinges with the whole sentences as they are by me written and with the circumstance of the places whence they be piked out That being done let it be weighed whether I speake ouer bitterly or he be answered according to his deserte For example I thinke it good here to lay two or three before the Reader that so he be admonished to doo the like him selfe for trial and iudgement to be made in the reste Here to lay forth al were to print againe a great parte of my bookes Special vvordes of discourtesie noted by M. Iâ—wel In the first place then M. Iewel hath noted these wordes Your Deuilish spite Reioindre Fol. 18. b. Consider Reader how and vpon what occasion these wordes are there vttered There thou findest thus First he maketh his entrie with a solemne praier protestantlike as if he were about to make a Sermon and his fauorable hearers ready to sing a song Then he accuseth the inflammation of my choler because alluding to the wordes of Daniel I glaunced at the name of the Foreronners of Antichriste therewith rubbing him and his holy companions as it were on their gaulle for the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed sacrifice of Christe mystically represented and truly continewed in the dayly Sacrifice of the Church now called the Masse Here I said not Your Deuilish spite directing my talke to you M. Iewel but the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed Sacrifice of Christe speaking indefinitely of the Protestantes and Sacramentaries of our time And why may I not resonably cal their spite against the Sacrifice a Deuilish spite sithence Luther was taught it of the Deuil him selfe by a night coÌ„ference with him as the wil of God was See the Preface before my secoÌ„d Reioindr Fol. 34. b. he should confesse it in open writing him selfe Whereof I speake in my preface before my last Reioindre there setting forth the same famous Disputation betwen the Deuil and Luther out of Luthers own boke The seconde note of bitter wordes that M. Iewel layeth to my charge is this Your Deuilish vvickednes But where found he these three wordes His cotation is this Reioinder Preface to the Reader But what if I haue vttered no such peece of sentence in al that Preface True it is Reader I haue no such saying there in deede If thou wouldst faine saue M. Iewels honestie and trie the truth peruse that whole Preface if thou find it there let it be blowen abrode that he belieth me not in this point though he haue so done in many other If thou finde it not geue vs leaue to say as truth is that for lacke of good matter against the Catholike Doctrine he deuiseth of his owne head slaunderous Lyes against his Aduersarie Whiche is the common practise of them whose cause is naughte And why hath he put this note in the second place O it had ben a fowle crase to his worship being suche a famous Minister of the worde as he is to haue begonne this new deuise with a flatte lye And thereof was he not ignorant And for that cause he placed the other Note before this whereas folowing order he should haue placed this before that For
is that you adde that our doctrine is forsaken the worlde through No M. Iewel not so Gods holy name be blessed it is not yet forsaken al England through We knowe it right wel we praise God for it and reioise therein You know it also and it greeueth you at the harteful deepely and specially that diuers haue returned from your lying Religion to the truthe of the Catholique Faithe euen in these last yeres when ye semed to haue most prospered in the sight of the worlde Suche is the nature of truth the more it is pressed downe the more it riseth vp A lie impudently auouched by M. Ievvel and sheweth it selfe Had our doctrine ben forsaken the world through your Gues I trowe in these lowe Countries and your Huguenotes in Fraunce had prospered better But what wil not you sticke to auouch which so boldely yea so impudently doo auouche such a knowen Vntruthe Vntruthe Nay so sensible and so palpable a Lie The Catholique doctrine not only contineweth in Italie FrauÌ„ce Spaine Portugal and Germanie in whole Countries and Territories but euen where your brethâ—â—n are thickest there lacke not Catholiques right many and perfitte among them Yea the Catholique doctrine is preached and published among heathens and Infidelles to the great glorie of God and to the great despite of the deuill and his ministers as it wel appeareth by your selfe M. Iewel and by your wordes whiche before I haue touched If our doctrine be forsaken the worlde through where are we M. Iewel against whom you write so busily Are we out of the worlde Where was the late general Councel with so many Bishoppes learned Doctours and Princes Ambassadours there present al condemning your hainous heresies Were they al out of the world or haue they al now changed their minde and yelded vnto you Maximilian the noble Emperour King Philip of Spaine with al his so sundry and so large Dominions besides the kingdome of Naples and Sicilia the Dukedomes of Millan Burgundie Brabant Holland Zeland Friseland Gelderland the Counties of Tyrol Flaunders Henault and Artois Charles king of Fraunce the kinges of Portugal and of Polonia The states and Princes of Italie with also many Dukedomes Free Citties States of Christendome besides al yet remaining Catholique are they al out of the worlde I can not tel whether I may cal this lye more impudent or more foolish Iewel Pag. 50. Neither there any sufficient cause to the contrarie but that Berâ—â—garius Iohn VViclef Iohn Hus D. Luther Zuinglius Oâ—colampadius and others either for learning or for truth or for iâ—â—â—â—ment in the Scriptures or for Antiquitie may vvel and safely bâ— coâ—pared vvith Lanfrancus Guimundus Abbas Cluniacensis Thoâ—â—â— VValdensis Iohn Fisher and others Harding What difference there is betwen these holy Fathers and those pestilent Heretiques The. 17. Chapt. No no Sir the oddes is exceding great Berengarius Wiclef Hus Luther Zuinglius and Oecolampadius non comunicabant oiÌ„bus gentibus illis Ecclesiis Apostolico labore fundatis Aug. cont Lit. Petil. lib. 2. cap. 16. did not coÌ„municate with al nations and those Churches which were founded by the Apostles labour Nay by the ful and intier coÌ„sent of al nations Christened assembled in general Councelles they were al condemned Berengarius in the great general Councel of Lateran Anno. 1205. Wiclef and Hus in the general Councel of Constance Anno. 1413. Luther and the rest among whom you may take your selfe for one in the late General Councel of Trent Contrariewise the other Fathers communicated with the whole corps of Christendome then liuing They were Bisshoppes and Doctours of that age lineally succeding in the Catholique doctrine euen from the Apostles and the Apostolike menne Againe these said Fathers are accompted and placed in honorable roumes as Lumina Ecclesiae lightes of the Churche in al Chronographies yea made and written by the Protestantes them selues namely by Henricus Pantaleon of Basil and others of your secte Berengarius on the other side with al the rest are noted in the Chronographies drawen out by ProtestaÌ„tes them selues in the rewe and line of condemned heretiques Thirdly what comparison is there betwen lewde lecherous Luther and that holy Bisshop B. Fisher and blessed Martyr of God Doctour Fisher late Bisshop of Rochester The very writinges of bothe extant doo declare the diuersitie of their spirites Luther taketh his pleasure in Ribaudrie belketh out filthinesse breatheth rancour raileth and reuelleth against the honorable states of the worlde beyonde al measure euen against thâ—t Prince him selfe that afterwarde prepared the waie for your heresies to procede lustily King Heâ—â—ie the eight The writinges of D. Fisher are wel knowen to be modest piththy and learned and at this present highly esteemed in al Christendome So are the writinges of Lanfrancus Guimundus and Cluniacensis Of the others we haue but names only leaft except Luther with the two others whose writinges yet no doubte if euer Goddes truth preuaile wil also at length come to nought and haue the like fortune as the bookes of al other heretikes haue had Iewel Pag. 50. The Councelles ye meane are very nevve and therefore beare the lesse Authoritie for that they be so many vvaies contrarie to the olde Certainely there is none of your errours so grosse and palpable but by some of your late Councelles it hath benne confirmed Harding The causes examined for which M. Iewel alloweth not the Councelles of these last 500. yeres The. 18. Chapt. Guli MalmesburieÌ„ lib. 3. de gestis Anglorum Guimundus Al. gerus lib. 1 de Sacramentis Platina in Innocentio 3. Tyrius lib. 21. cap. 26 Guido Carmelita de haeresibus Platina Palmerius Nauclerus Three causes then there are if I vnderstand you wel why you and your felowes so saucily doo condemne the General Councelles holden in Christendome within these last fiue hundred yeres as the Councelles holden at Toures in Fraunce at S. Iohn Lateran in Rome that vnder Nicolaus 2. to the number of 114. Bishoppes this vnder Innocentius 3. whereunto Patriarkes Archebisshoppes Bishoppes and Abbates out of al partes of Christendome resorted to the number of a thousand two hundred fourescore and fiue Fathers in al which the doctrine of Berengarius was condemned Also the other General Councel holden at S. Iohn Lateran at an other time to the number of 300. Bishoppes both of the East and the West Churche where the Waldenses your brethren were condemned the Councel of Constance where the doctrine of Wiclef and Hus was condemned to the number of 270. Bishoppes last of al the General Councel of Trent to the number of 198. Bishoppes where sundry of your present heresies were after mature discussion with ful consent accursed and condemned Al these and diuers other Councelles for three causes you contemne and despise First for that they are very newe Secondly for that they are contrary to the olde Thirdly bicause al our errours haue benne confirmed in them Your first cause implieth a
great folie I wil not saie also a blasphemie A great folie it is for you and your felowes to contemne the General Councelles of late yeres for that they be newe as you say your selues and your doctrine being yet so newe and of so litle age Verely no age or time of Christes Churche to any Christen man ought to seeme newe in respecte of doctrine and faith If he beleeue the holy Scriptures describing the Church vnto vs he can not without folie in that respecte cal it newe The time may be newe or late bicause it commeth and passeth The Faithe and Doctrine remaineth one and the same not changed with the course of times Nowe as the Worde of God and our Faithe dureth for euer so Christes Churche being one and the same as it hath in al ages continewed so shal it continewe to the worldes ende This before hath benne prooued and by your selfe confessed The Councelles therefore I meane the doctrine of Faith opened discussed and agreed vppon in Councelles by the Bisshoppes whom the holy Ghost hath ordeined to rule the Churche Act. 20. Ephes 4. and by the Pastours and Doctours whome God placeth to the edefying of the Churche that we be not carried awaie by euerie winde of doctrine is not newe The discussion and plaine opening of it may be newe The doctrine is olde as truth it selfe is olde Ansvver to the obiection of the later CouÌ„celles being contrarie to the olde Your second cause why these later Councelles doo beare with you the lesse Authoritie is for that as you say they be so many waies contrarie to the olde It had benne good reason that if these later Councelles be so many waies contrarie to the olde you had shewed presently at the lest one of those so many waies Shal it be sufficient for you to geue out such a Reproche iâ— a matter of so greate Importance without any prousâ— at al It had benne plaine dealing at the lest to haue named some one Councel and to haue touched some one pointe wherein that Councel should be founde contrarie to the olde This therefore I lette passe for a Notorious and a Reprocheful Vntruthe boldely auouched but no waie proued Onely I aduertise the Reader that it is not possible any general Councel shoulde be contrarie to an other in matter of faith One Churche one faith and necessarie doctrine As the Churche in Faith is but one so the Faith discussed determined and agreed vpon in Councelles truely representing the whole body of the Churche is but one As the Churche can not be contrarie to it selfe in Faith so general Councelles assembled in the holy Ghoste can not be contrarie to them selues Marke wel good Sir what I saie One general Councel can not in a matter of faith be contrary to an other CouÌ„cel Math. 18. In doctrine and matter of Faith no lawful General Councel truely and rightly that is in vnitie and Charitie assembled hath or can at any time determine contrarie to an other likequalified For so the one should erre in Faith whereby Christes promise should seeme to faile who said wheresoeuer two or three are assembled together in my name there am I in the middest of them In my name faith S. Cyprian that is in vnitie and in the body That later Councelles haue determined some matters not before in other Councelles determined it is euident and not denied Heresies haue caused many matters to be more opened then they were before as S. Augustine noteth But new articles of the faith be not decreed in CouÌ„celles That also in matter of manners and of external order or gouernement some Councelles haue done coÌ„tratrarie to other according to the state of times and diuersitie of circumstances it is not denied Yea that it be so done sometime the state and present case of the Church of necessitie requireth it Aug. epist 5. ad Marcellinum For which S. Augustin saith notably Non itaque verum est quod dicitur semel rectè factum nullatenus esse mutanduÌ„ Mutata quippe teÌ„poris causa quod rectè antè factuÌ„ suerat ita mutari vera ratio pleruÌ„que flagitat vt cuÌ„ ipsi dicant rectè noÌ„ fieri si mutetur contrà veritas clamet rectè non fieri nisi mutetur quia vtruÌ„que tunc erit rectuÌ„ si erit pro teÌ„poruÌ„ varietate diuersum It is not therefore true which meÌ„ say looke what thing is once wel done it ought in no case to be changed For the state of the time being altered that thing which was wel done before good reason oftentimes requireth so to be changed that whereas they say it is not wel done if it be changed the truth on the other side crieth out It is not weldone if it be not changed bicause both shal then be right and wel if it shal be diuers according to the varietie of the time But that in matter of faith or doctrine Ansvver to that M Iâ—vvel obiecteth against the later CouÌ„cels for that by the same al our doctrines vvhiche they impugne 〈◊〉 conâ—irmed as is a fore said any General Councel lawfully assembled was euer contrarie to the other it is a mere vntruthe and a false sclaunder that can neuer be proued Where you say for a third cause or reason why these later CouÌ„cels are of lesse autoritie for that there is none of our errours so grosse and palpable but by some of them it hath ben coÌ„firmed to that we answer Quod das accipâ—mê° we admit gladly that in these late CouÌ„cels al such matters as we defend which it pleaseth yau to terme grosse and palpable errours haue ben confirmed We are then discharged and the whole Church of late yeres is charged But Sir being confirmed by General Councelles why cal you them Errours grosse and Palpable Saie you not also herein that the whole Churche erred at that time grossely and palpably Let vs take one Councel and one Age for example to auoide confusion of general discoursing and to bring this matter to some cleare issue The Lateran Councel vnder Innocentius 3. In the yere of our Lorde 1215. aboue three hundred yeres past in the General Councel holden at S. Iohn Laterane in Rome with ful consent of a thousand two hundred fourescore and fiue Fathers assembled there out of al partes of Christendome as wel out of the East Church as out of the West the Ambassadours and Oratours as wel of both Emperours being present as also of diuers other Kinges Princes and States it was by mature discussion found TransubstaÌ„tiatioÌ„ and agreed vpon and decreed so to be beleeued that in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter due consecration being made the substance of breade is changed into the substance of the body of Christ and the substance of wine into the substaÌ„ce of his bloode the worde Transubstantiation whereby much that belongeth to that mysterie is by a coÌ„modious breuitie expressed was allowed the opinion of Berengarius was condeÌ„ned
the Aphrican Bishoppes had deposed and remoued from his Bishprike for crimes not sufficiently proued sent his Clerkes that were his Agentes in Aphrica vnto certaine noble menne of the Countrie bearing offices vnder the Emperour to require their assistence if neede should so require whiche is as muche to saie as now we vse to speake as implorare brachium seculare to cal vpon the temporal power for helpe that iustice maie be executed With this the Aphrican Bishoppes did muche mislike and therefore besought Pope Coelestine that it should no more be donne but that maters might be ended by them being Bishoppes of that prouince without al intermedling of the laie power The wordes of the epistle are these Concil Aphâ—ican cap. 105. Executores etiam clericos vestros quibusque potentibus nolite mittere nolite concedereâ—ne fumosum typhum seculi in Ecclesiam Christi quae lucem simplicitatis humilitatis diem Deum videre cupientibus praefert videamur inducere Furthermore we beseche you that you sende no more your Clerkes that be your Agentes vnto any of the great menne and that you graunt to no suche thing hereafter leste we should seeme to bringe the smoky or vaine stoutenesse of the worlde into the Churche of Christe whiche to them that couete to see God sheweth forth the light of simplicitie and humilitie This is the Vntruthe you make vpon the Aphrican Councel in reprouing Pope Innocentius of pride and worldely Lordelinesse fully answered Now as vow haue brought an vntruth against the Pope out of the Aphrican Councel as you pretend so maie it please you to consider of the contrarie reported in the behofe of the Popes supreme authoritie in gouernment out of a Councel of Aphrica where we finde the same autoritie with these wordes auouched and acknowleged Maximè tustè debent Episcoporum iudicia negotia ecclesiastica ab ipso praesulum examinari vertice Apostolico Epist Stephani trium CoÌ„ciliorum Aphrica ad Damasum PapaÌ„ Con. 10. 1. cuius vetusta solicitudo est tam mala damnare quà m releuare laudanda Antiquis enim regulis censitum est vt quicquid horum quamuis in remotis vel in longinquo positis ageretur prouincijs non prius tractandum vel accipiendum sit nisi ad notitiam almae sedis vestrae fuisset deductum vt eius authoritate iuxta quod fuisset pronunciatum firmaretur The iudgementes of Bishops and ecclesiastical maters ought most iustely to be examined of him that is the Apostolike toppe or the crowne of the head of the Prelates whose care it is of olde as wel to condemne il thinges as to releeue good thinges For it hath ben decreed by the olde Canons that what so euer matter of the Bishoppes were in sute though it were in prouinces that be farre of from Rome it should not be ended before it were brought to the notice of that your See that it might be assured by the authoritie of the same right so as the sentence in iudgement should be pronounced By these wordes and by the whole Epistle of the Fathers of that Aphrican Councel assembled together vnder the Archebishop Stephanus it appeareth euidently how reuerently they submitted them selues and the determination of their causes and controuersies vnto the Pope and how farre of they were from the outragious sprite as to charge Innocentius or any other Pope with pride and wordely lordelinesse as M. Iewel hath fained Iewel Pope Bonifacius 2. condemned S. Augustine and al the said Councel of Aphrica and called them al heretiques and Schismatiques Inter decreta Bonifacij 2. Instigante diabolo for the same and said they vvere al * leade by the Deuil Pope Zosimus to maintaine this claime corrupted the holy Councel of Nice Harding Bonifacius 2. Fowly be lyed The .31 Chapt. It is pitie this man hath not a good mater For where he maketh so muche of nothing what would he doo had he somewhat But it is easie to saie muche in a naughty cause for one that is not a shamed to lie It can not be founde among the Decrees of Pope Boniface the .2 vnto whiche M. Iewel referreth vs nor any where els that he euer condemned that blessed and learned Father S. Augustine by name nor the Councel of Aphrica by any solemne sentence pronounced against them Verely that he called them al Heretiques and Schismatiques for the same that is to saie for the Popes vniuersal authoritie or for any thing and that they were lead by the Deuil it is an impudent lie The most greuous wordes he vttereth against them are these in an Epistle that he writeth to Eulalius the Patriarch of Alexandria exhorting him to reioise and to geue warning to other Bishoppes neare vnto him to reioise also and to geue God thankes for that the Churche of Aphrica was reconciled and returned to the obedience of the Churche of Rome from whence they had seuered them selues for the space of a hundred yeres vpon some stomake as it appeareth for that they would not admitte any Appellations of the Bishoppes of Aphrica to be made vnto the Pope whiche authoritie the Pope claimed by a Canon of the Nicene Councel CoÌ„cil Sardicen ca. 7 Bonifac. 2. Epist ad EulabiuÌ„ CoÌ„cil to 1. pag. 1057. and likewise by a Canon of the Councel of Sardica Aurelius Carthaginensis Ecclesiae olim Episcopus cum collegis suis instigante Diabolo superbire temporibus praedecessorum nostroruÌ„ Bonifacij atque Coelestini contra Romanam Ecclesiam coepit Aurelius some time Bishop of the Churche of Carthage beganne with his felowe Bishops the Deuil intising them to be proude against the Churche of Rome in the daies of Boniface and Coelestine my predecessours c. Of Heretiques and Schismatiques here is not a worde And though he said the Deuil intised them yet wil it not folowe that al they were leadde by the Deuil The Deuil intiseth many yea whom doth he not intise to euil Yet al be not leadde by the Deuil To be intised of the Deuil is one thing to be leadde is an other Touching Pope Zosimus saie what ye can folowing your Maister Caluine and when ye haue said al that ye can saie it is wel knowen ye shal neuer clearely proue Caluine Institut Cap. 1. that he corrupted the Councel of Nice For this I referre the Reader to M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes vpon M. Iewel Articulo 4. fol. 30. sequentib Peruse the place Reader and thou shalt finde thy selfe wel satisfied touching this pointe That whiche there is said in defence of Zosimus against their sclaunderous reportes M. Iewel should first haue disproued if he had minded in that mater to trie out the truthe and then haue laied it againe in our waie But he ful craftily dissembleth al and maketh as though he had not seene any such thing therby bothe to encomber vs with ofte repeating of one thing and the reader with hearing that whiche hath ben
lyes and gloses and also an vnprofitable bestowing of good time Iewel They are gonne from Faith to infidelitie from Christe to Antichrists Harding Which they M. Iewel Did he speake of the Popeâ—… of Rome M. Ievvel odiously layeth that to the Bishops of Rome vvhiche vvas spoken generally by vvaie of coÌ„plaint of al euil ChristiaÌ„s You say touching the Church of Rome c. And yet now you bring forth that which was generally spoken and that by waie of complaint of al euil Christians and not namely of the Bisshops of Rome Againe how are they gonne from faith to infidelitie and from Christ to Antichrist Verely bicause they are gonne froÌ„ God to Epicure that is to say bicause many of them liue as if they had neither faith nor Christ nor God Last of al he saith not they are gonne as you falsifie his wordes but with a moderation would God they were not gonne He sheweth him selfe to feare lest they be gonne he taketh not vpon him boldly to affirme it as you doo Iewel And yet al other thinges failing they must holde onely by Succession and only bicause they sit in Moyses Chaire they must claime the possession of the vvhole This is the right and vertue of their Succession Harding Is it not reason if secular men hold their kingdomes landes goodes and rightes by Succession yea when al other rightes forces and vertues faile that Gods Ministers if they had nothing els leaft should hold stil their owne also by Succession It is wel knowen that the Bishops of Rome haue more then only Succession For they make good Decrees they geue answer to great consultations they cal General and Prouincial Councelles they execute the Canons of them and send forth Preachers as of late they haue done euen vnto the new found Indies beside many other godly and vertuous actes which they exercise for the saluation of their own soules and of the people But what if they had nothing but Succession Would you then haue men forsake their folde and Church Did Isaias so did Esdras so did Iudas Machabeus so did Zacharias so did S. Iohn Baptist so Can you deuise the Popes to be worse then Caiphas or the Pharisees Math. 23. And yet Christ willed them to be obeied albeit they had litle els beside Succession It is this Succession M. Iewel which shal lie in your and in your companions waie at the dredful day of accompte It shal not be demaunded of euery man why he studied not the Scriptures which most men haue not learned to reade But it shal be demaunded why they haue no faith nor charitie No faith by forsaking the open and knowen Succession no charitie by breaking vnitie Euery man seeth Succession ignorance can not be pretended and euery man shal be iudged by it concerning his Faith Iewel The vvordes of Tertullian M. Harding vvhich you haue here alleged vvere spoken of certaine your ancient fathers that had raised vp a nevv religion of them selues as you haue also done vvithout either vvorde of God or example of the Apostles and holy fathers Harding It is happy that at the length Here at length M. Ievvel beginneth to ansvver my vvordes but how consider you beginne to answere my wordes We shal now see how wel you touche Tertullians meaning You say his wordes were spoken of certaine my ancient Fathers That can not be so For none are in this behalfe my fathers but those who loue wel the Succession of Bishops But Tertullian spake of those De Prascription aduersus Haret that esteemed the Succession of Bishops as litle as you do And therefore they are your fathers of whom he speaketh that is to say they are Heretikes of whom he speaketh For in dede no heretike can abide Succession bicause they would faine iustle out the olde Succession to schuffle in their new Intrusion You say the men of whom Tertullian speaketh raised vp a new Religion of them selues and therein you say truth You adde as I also haue donne but therein you belye me for ye are not hable to laye any one point of doctrine to my charge wherein I follow not that old Succession which abhorreth al new Religion Let al the worlde iudge who raiseth vp a newe Religion you or I. You say the Heretiques of who Tertullian spake raised vp a new Religion without the Worde of God example of the Apostles or of holy Fathers If you meane without the true meaning of Gods worde you say truth and then you also are without Gods worde bicause you are without the Church whereunto Gods worde with the true interpretation thereof was geuen and we are not without it bicause we conteine our selues within the Churche But if you meane that these heretikes did not sounde the wordes of the Scriptures in their lippes as falsely and withal as fast as you doo then you say not truly For Tertullian in that booke doth shew that the Heretikes also appealed to the Scriptures Tertullian in Prascript aduersus haeret and he answered that to striue with heretiques vpon the scriptures was a thing of vncertaine victorie bicause one saith it is not holy Scripture an other saith it is holy Scripture one saith it is meant thus an other saith it is â—â—â—â—t otherwise But saith Tertullian the interpretation of the Scriptures belongeth to them It booteth not to striue vvith heretiques about the Scriptures who haue the true faith and he concludeth that they haue the true faith who haue the perpetual Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne daies Scripturas obtendunt hac sua audacia statim quosdam mouent The Heretiques pretende to bring Scriptures for them selues and with that their impudencie forthwith they shake some And afterward Ibidem Ergo non ad scripturas prouocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen in quibus aut nulla aut incerta victoria est aut parum certa Therefore we must not alwaies appeale vnto the Scriptures neither must we striue about them in which either no victorie at al or an vncertaine or verely not very certaine victorie is obteined Then sheweth he that heretikes of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures but onely the Catholiques Heretiques of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures TertulliaÌ„ Ibidem to whom the Apostles deliuered them and not them only but other thinges also viua voce by mouth and worde without writing Si hac ita sunt constat proinde omnem doctrinam quae cum illis Ecclesiis Apostolicis matricibus et originalibus fidei conspiret veritati deputandam reliquam verò omnem doctrinam de mendacio praeiudicandam quae sapiat contra veritatem Ecclesiarum Apostolorum Christi Dei. If this be so then is it euident that al such doctrine as agreeth with those that are the Apostolique Churches the mother Churches and the original Churches of the faith is to be taken for true and that al other
husband of one wife that the same order contineweth stil in the Church thereto he saieth in his secoâ—d homilie de patientia Iob non ea ratione quod id nunc in Ecclesia obseruetur Oportet enim omni prâ—rsus castitate Sâ—cerdotem ornatum esse S. Paule sayeth he required this not in consideration that the same be nowe obserued in the Church For it behoueth a Bishop to be garnished with al manner a chastitie Iewel Here commeth M. Hardinge in a lofte vvith Io Triumphe as hauing beaten dovvne al the vvorld vnder his feete And as being already in sure possession of the victorie he crieth out Impudencies Loude his foule Faultes and pietie Fittens And ful terribly chargeth vs like a Conqueroure to render oure selues and to râ—cante for sonne This nevve courage is suddainly blovven vpon him for that he thâ—â—keth vve haue intruded vâ—on his office and as he saieth haâ—e corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers But it vvere a vvorthie matter to knovve vvherein Forsoothe vve saie by the reporte of Sozâ—menus and Gregorius Nazianzenus that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzen being bothe Married Bishoppes notvvithstanding theire Marriage vvere neuer the vvâ—rsâ— hable to doo theire Ecclesiastical offices but rather the better * The vvordes importe it not Here M. Harding of himselfe and freely confesseth these Holy Fathers vvâ—re neâ—â—r the vvorse hable to dâ—â— their offices For so muche th◠〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 importe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But that they vvere the better hable to doe theirâ— offices â—â—cause of theire VViues that he dâ—nieth vtterly and herein he saieâ—h me are corrupters and falsifiers of the Fathers And thus the vvhole difference that is betvvene M. Hardinge and vs touching this matter standeth onely in these tvvo poore vvordes Rather the better and â—euer the vâ—â—rse Novv gentle reader I beseche thee also Reader to vveigh my Ansvver that thou maiest be the better hable tâ— iâ—dge betvvene vs I beseeche the indifferently vveigh these vvâ—â—des Gregorie Nazianzene hereof that is of the helpe Vntruth for then he vvas not Bishop but an infidel Nazian in Epitaphiâ— patris that his Father 〈◊〉 being the Bishop of Nazianzum had by his vvife vvriteth thus Illa quae data est Adamo c. Eua that vvvas geuen to Adam for a helper for asmuch as it vvas nâ—â— good for man to be alone in steede of a helper became his enemie It follovveth Meo autem Patri Mater mea data illi à Deo non tantum adiutrix facta est id enim minus esset miruÌ„ sed etiaÌ„ dux princeps verbo factoque inducens illuÌ„ ad res optimas Et aliis quidem rebus quamuis optimum esset subditam esse viro propter iura coniugii tamen in pietate non verebatur seipsam illi magistram exhibere My mother being geuen to my father of God became not onely his helper for that had ben no great vvonder but also vvas his leader and Captaine She vvas his Maistresse before he knevv vvhat the faith of Christ vvas yet they serue you to no purpose False He vvas not then Bishop of Nazianzum nor yet a Christian bothe by vvord and by deede trayning him vnto the best And albeit in other thinges it vvere beste for her to be subiecte vnto her husbande for the right of marriage yet in religion and Godlinesse she doubted not to becomme his Maistresse These vvordes M. Hardinge be plaine and cleare and vvithout fitton Gregorie Nazianzen sayeth that his ovvne â—â—â—ther vvas vnto his father the Bishop of Nazianzum a helper and a directour both by vvorde and deede to leade him to the best and that in al other thinges being his inferiour yet in â—eligion and Godlinesse she vvas his * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVhat a do vvould this fellovv make if he had me at a Vantage in deede that thus fareth vvithout cause as by the ansvver it shal better appeare Maistresse And yet mâ—st al these vvordes so open so plaine so cleare be drovvned vvith your simple distinction of Rather the better and neuer the vvorse Maie vve not novve allovve you vvith fauour to take al these that ye cal sitions lyes corruptions and falsifienges home againe vnto your selfe If you â—â—â—â—r crâ—â—le thâ—se tâ—â—â—ges before is 〈…〉 must remembre al truth must not be measured by your reading â–ª Harding To beginne with these last wordes as I require not al truth to be measured by my râ—â—ding M. Iâ—wâ—l so neither is it to be measured by your writing Whether I euer readde these thinges before or no it skilleth not Certaine it is where you readde al that ye haue here alleged out of S. Gregorie Nazianzene you readde also that whereby your false and vnreasonable assertion is confuted teaching that his Father being Bishop of NazianzuÌ„ learned the doctrine of Godlines of his wife Hauing read and seene the truth of this point in that very place and here conceeling it that you might not seeme confuted yea and so boldely auouching the contrarie how make you not al menne that know this witnesses of your falshode and impudencie M. Ievvels gay eloquence minister-like As for your vaine and light tauntes of my comming in a lofte with Io Triumphe of my terrible charging of you like a Conquerour of the new courage suddainly blowen vpon me and such other prety eloquence fitter for a Minister then for a sober man I can easily contemne No wise man that readeth my wordes for which ye ruffle so with me wil iudge you had iuste cause with suche sporte to delight your selfe Neither said I if you marke my wordes wel that you had corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers for that you said vpon reporte of Sozomenus and S. Gregorie Nazianzene that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzene were for their marriage neuer the worse hable to serue God but rather the better which neuerthelesse is false but for that you speake it generally of a Bishop as though Bishops should doâ— that apperteineth to their charge the better if they married wiues For truth whereof I referre me to the place SpiridioÌ„ and Gregorie Nazianzenes father Those two holy Fathers were menne endewed with a singular and special grace and the example of so few is not to be drawen to be made a rule in general as I said in my Confutation Yet the most that is said of them is that they serued God neuer the worse by reason of their Marriage Againe M. Ievvel defeÌ„deth after his manner but fevv partes of the Apologie whereas I answered to euery parte of your Apologie in this place you defende but one thing by me confuted Neither to say the truth doo you defende the same but say what you were hable to shew some colour of a Defence This argueth that the other thinges you brought are fully confuted For elles why did you not defende them And this muche is the Reader here to be warned of by the waie That whereas most
of late by the learned Iesuites of Dilinga in Germanie intituled Augstuiniana Cōfessiō where in manner no worde is founde besides that whiche is in S. Augustins owne workes And there al seuen Sacramentes are proued at large out of S. Augustin alone and that maie suffice in this behalfe For if ye refuse S. Augustines authoritie I know not whose authoritie ye wil allowe Of the power of Baptisme in infantes and of Concupiscence The 4. Chapter Harding What M. Iewel would saye in this matter Incertaintie of M. Iewels doctrine Pag. 215. Pag. 216. Pag. 215. I can not certainly tel he is so inconstant and like a man that is halfe ashamed of his doctrine For one while he saith the Sacrament dependeth of no man At another time The iust man shal liue not by the faith of his parentes but by his owne faith And yet he saith S. Augustine Iustinus Martyr S. Cyprian S. Hierom and others write plainely that the faith of the Parentes doth helpe But how truly that is written he wil not saye Againe he saith that Infantes are not void of faith Pag. 216. A litle after he writeth God is able to worke saluation both with the Sacraments and without them And then he mingleth the Signe with the Thing and the Thing with the Signe Last of al he saith In deede Pag. 217. and in precise manner of speache Saluation must be sought in Christe alone and not in any outward signes In effecte he sticketh and maketh muche a doo and faine he woulde if he durst bring forth this proposition plainely condemned of the Churche in olde tyme That infantes maie be saued without Baptisme But it is the heresie of Pelagius and the same is against the word of God saying Ioban 3. Except a man be borne againe of water and of the holy Ghost he can not enter into the kingdom of heauen For whereas saith with the vow and desire of baptisme in a time of necessitie doth serue him that hath discretiō to beleue Augustinus Epist 23. seing the said faith is not in the child excepte baptisme which is the Sacrament of faith be receiued of him it doth folow that Children dying without Baptisme are condemned This much maye suffice for that point Iewel Concupiscence remaining in the faithful after baptisme is sinne forcing S. Paul to crie out Rom. 7. I see an other law in my members fighting against the law of my mind and leading me prisoner to the law of sinne And againe O wretched man that I am who shal deliuer me from this body of death Harding 1. Pet. 3. It is to be vnderstanded that whereas Baptisme saueth vs as S. Peter saith al sinne is washed away therein And we are made a new creature according to that S. Paul saith In Christ Iesus Gal. 6. Chrysost Ibidem ad Galatas neither Circumcision is ought worth nor vncircuncision but the new creature meaning by a new creature as S. Chrysostom and other holy Fathers expound it that our nature which was waxen old in sinne Repētè baptismi lauacro renouata est non aliter quà m si denu◠esset condita is renued in the washing of baptisme none otherwise then if it had ben made a newe So that no sinne at al can be in vs now baptized if wee haue worthily receiued Baptisme Whiche notwithstanding there is euidently perceiued in our fleashe a certaine resistance and rebellion against Reason in suche wise that as our minde and soule being indued with grace desireth to do al goodnes so do our senses and sensual appetites intise and prouoke vs to muche naughtinesse Now bicause the sensual appetite deliteth vs and so ouercommeth vs commonly more or lesse therefore it is called the law of the fleash or the law which the fleash would gladly follow and obey which law or concupiscence leadeth vs prisoners to sinne so much as lieth in it and so ofte as we obey it Whether concupiscence be sinne though we consent not vnto it But the point of the question is whether it be truly and in deed a sinne in vs although we consent not vnto it We saie it is not properly sinne M. Iewel defendeth the contrarie but S. Paules wordes proue not the concupiscence which remaineth to be a sinne except we obey it Otherwise if of it selfe it were sinne we had not benne made a newe creature in Baptisme For the creature wherein sinne is remaineth stil an old creature But albeit al sinnes be taken awaye in Baptisme yet God suffereth the concupiscence to remaine in our fleash partly that we maie by the Rebellion thereof perceiue from what an enimie our soule is deliuered and so geue thankes to God as the Apostle doth in this place Rom. 7. which M. Iewel alleaged partly that we may be exercised with tentation to th ende we may be crowned for our victorie I therefore saith S. Paule in minde or soule obey the lawe of God but in fleash I obey the law of sinne And who knoweth not it is the consent of the mind and not the desire of the fleash which maketh a man to be a sinner Concupiscence is in my fleash onely and not in my minde except I consent vnto it and so take it into my minde and then in truth it is a sinne And this is the very discourse of S. Paule For when he had said in mind or in the highest part of my soule I obey the lawe of God he concludeth thereupon Rom. 8. Nihil ergo damnationis est his qui sunt in Christo Iesu qui non secundùm carnem ambulant Therefore no part of damnation is to them who are in Christ Iesus who walke not according to the flesh For if a man walke according to the flesh then in deede his Concupiscence which before was no sinne is becom a sinne Thus albeit our flesh be the flesh of death that is to say Ibidem mortal as S. Chrysostom expoundeth it and therefore S. Paul would faine be deliuered from it as fearing lest he should at any time yeeld vnto it yet if he do not yeelde vnto it Rom. 8. there is no sinne in him For the law of the spirit of life which is the grace that iustifieth vs in baptisme deliuereth him from the law of sinne and of death euerlasting Ievvel 217. Lib. 10. epist 84. S. Ambrose saith There is not found in any man such concord betvven the flesh and the spirit but that the lavv of concupiscence vvhich is planted in the members fighteth against the lavv of the mind And for that cause the vvordes of S. Iohn the Apostle are taken 1. Ioan. 1. as spoken in in the person of al Saintes If vve say vve haue no sinne vve deceiue our selues and there is no truth in vs. Harding I graunt that in this cōtinual fight we are daily so conquered in some smal sinne or other that we neuer remaine any long time without venial sinne But that
of Popes at the first succeding one an other fol. 219. b. Ordination and Confirmation diuers fol. 227. b. Origen falsified by M. Iewel fol. 286. a. 333. b. Orders Ecclesiastical fol. 134. b. 135. a. P. Papistrie can not be shewed when it beganne fol. 106. b Patriarkes fol. 180. Peter Martyr in Strasbourg a Lutheran in England a Zuinglian fol. 34. b. Peter Martyr and dame Catherine his wife fol. 36. b. Peter Martyr at variance vvith Brentius fol. 117. b. Peters authoritie and prerogatiue fol. 174. a. 175. 176. Peter ouer the Christian Gentiles at Rome fol. 221. 〈…〉 Peter when he came to Rome fol. 221. b. Peter the feeder of al sortes in the flocke fol. 148. b. c. Peters humilitie fol. 153. Peter offended twise fol. 157. Peter foloweth the rest yet head of al by S. Augustine fol. 158. Peter receiued into indiuisible vnitie with Christ fol. 174. a. Peter ioyned with fol. Leo. 176. a. Pelagius heresie mainteined by the Caluinistes fol. 367. a. Perfection double one of Pilgrimes the other of heauen fol. 368. b Petitio principij muche vsed by M. Iewel fol. 89. a. Platina no flatterer of the Pope fol. 257. b. Pope the Heade of the Churche fol. 130. b. The Popes Supremacie proued fol. 146. 147. 148. 149. 159. b. 179. 186. a. b. The Pope Prince of Pastours fol. 177. b 178. a. The Pope leaft the Vicare of Christes loue towardes vs. fol. 148. a. The Popes confirming of Bishops fol. 223. b. 224. seq Popes charged with heresie and other enormites defended fol. 248. 249. 250. 251. 252. 253. 254. 255. 256. 257. 258. The Pope Peters Successour fol. 273. a. The Pope laufully called the Princâ—… of Pastours fol. 177. b. Possibilitie of keping Gods Commaundementes fol. 366. b. Priesthood double fol. 239. a. Priest aboue a Deacon fol. 164. b. Priestes of England are Votaries fol. 290. b. Priestes of Greece in what sence they are Votaries fol. 298. a. Priestes and religious menne whether they maie be dispensed to marrie fol. 300. b. Priestes only Iudges ouer Priestes fol. 377. a. Praying for the dead taught by S. Paule fol. 326. b. Protestantes dissent not onely one from an other but also from them selues fol. 34. a. Protestantes varie from the Primitiue Churche fol. 270. b. Protestantes be Apostates fol. 336. b. Protestantes are proued by an inuincible Argument to be no part of Christes Churche fol. 90. a. b. 92. Puritanes fol. 139. a. 332. a. R. RAymeris made king of Arragon of a Monke and married by dispensation fol. 301. a. Real presence cleerely witnessed fol. 79. a. proued 339. sequentib Rebellion against Princes mainteined by M. Iewel fol. 86. a. Religious menne married the first fouÌ„ders of this new Gospel fol. 36. b Reseruation of the Sacramente fol. 331. b. Righteousnes competent for this life fol. 368. a. Rounde capped Ministers fol. 86. b. Ruffianrie of M. Iewel detected fol. 120. b. Ruffinus belied by M. Iew. fol. 285. b. S. SAbellicus falsified by M. Iewel fol. 139. b. Sacramentes meanes to receiue grace fol. 330. a. Sacramentes seuen fol. 334 a. Sacrament of the Aulter called our maker and Lorde by S. Augustine fol. 346. a. Sacramentaries persecuted by the Lutheranes fol. 95. b. 96. a. Sacramentaries condemned by the Lutheranes fol. 104. b. Seruus seruuorum Dei the Popes stile fol. 187. b. Seuerus a blinde man by touche of a Martyrs garment recouered sight fol. 364. a. Shaxton Bishoppe no Protestant fol. 241. b. Shaxton and Capon Bishoppes of Sarisburie repented fol. 194. a. Shaxton B. not of M. Iewele side fol. 242. b. Sharpe vvordes founde in the Scriptures fol. 27. b. Sheepe of three sortes fol. 149. a. Siritius and Innocentius vvere not the first ordeiners of Clerkes coÌ„tinencie fol. 279. a. Sozomenus Gregorie Nazianzen and Eusebius belied by the Apologie fol. 309. a. Sophistrie of M. Ievvels shifting from the Scriptures to Goddes vvorde fol. 323. a. Spiridion made Bishop of a married laie man fol. 285. a Syluester 2. Pope fol. 249. a. Succession of Bishoppes treated of at large Lib. fol. 4. Succession of Bishoppes a certaine rule to knovve the Churche by fol. 198. b. 199. sequent Succession can not lacke the Truth fol. 199. 200. Succession lavvful can not be taken avvaie by man fol. 211. T. TErtulliaÌ„ of a married man made a Prieste fol. 285. a. Tertullians errour fol. 239. 240. Three vvaies of vvriting against an aduersarie fol. 42. b. Tradition fol. 270. a. Traditions belonging to SacrameÌ„ts maie not be changed Ceremonies maie fol. 326. a. Traditores what they were in the primitiue Churche fol. 91. a. Transubstantiation fol. 110. b. treated of 346. b. This is my Bodie meant properly fol. 339. a. Turkes inuasion brideled fol. 266. a. V. VAriance of opinion betwen two Ministers of Valencenes in the time of the Siege fol. 84. b. Victor the Pope his death fol. 58. a Virgilius Pope his CoÌ„stancie fol. 200. a Vnitie can not be without a supreme head fol. 140. b. 141. a. 152. 153. a. Vniuersal Bishop truly attributed to the Pope fol. 185. b. 186. 187. 188. sequent Votaries maie not conueniently marrie by M. Iewel fol. 289. a. Vow breakers in what danger they stande fol. 278. a. Vow of Chastitie annexed to holy Orders fol. 291. a. Vow of Chastitie made in facte though no vvordes be spoken fol. 292. b. Vovve made in vvhat case marriage holdeth or holdeth not by the determination of the Churche fol. 294. b Vrspergensis set out by Melanchthon onely fol. 57. b. VV VVAldenses heresies fol. 102. b. VVedlockes il thing is inordinate luste fol. 283. b. VVickleff his heresies fol. 82. b. 63. a. VViues that couerted their vnfaithful husbandes fol. 61. b. 350. a. VVordes of God not written fol. 270. a. VVorkes hovv meritorious of infinite revvarde fol. 371. b. Faultes escaped in the printing Faulte leafe line Correction my 27. a. 27. may sor 38. a. 12. sory Golfridus 83. b. 25. Galfridus lustly 135. b. 23. lusty famofum 170. b. 9. fumosum to 179. b. 28. lut it out least 180. b. 28. leaft S. of 198. a. 19. of S. In the margent 202. a.  a note superfluous Liber hic D.M.N. Thomae Hardingi lectus approbatus est à viris Anglici idiomatis Theologiae peritissimis vt sine periculo imprimi publicari possit Quanquam alioqui ipse D. Hardingus mihi tà m probè notus est vt de eius cruditione fide prudentia nihil sit dubitandum Cunerus Petri Pastor S. Petri Louanij 21. Maij. An. 1568.