theyr reason is farre from good reason so are your similitudes farre from prouing the same the Logitians say Soluitur sunilitudo ostensa dissimilitudine First ther is great difference betwixte the office of an Apostle and the office of a Pastor as you must néedes confesse Then is there also difference in the number for the Apostles whiche were chosen of Christe to be witnesses of his Resurrection were twelue and therfore the number certain but the number of Preachers and Pastors is not limited but the mo the better Thirdly there was one chosen in the place of Iudas that the Scripture might be fulfilled as Peter saith Act. 1. but there is no such thing in the election of Pastors other ministers Moreouer it was the twelfth place in number that Mathias was chosen vnto and not any locall place such as pastors take charge of Wherfore except you can make a certayn number and no certain number a local prescript and definite cure and a generall charge without prescription of any certain place all one or at the least verie like this argument Mathias was chosen into the place of Iudas ergo no man muste bee admitted into the ministerie excepte he haue a Cure muste of necessitie be a very childishe and fonde argument And how ofte shall I tell you that to reason à facto ad ius of an example to make a generall rule is a very vnskilfull kinde of rasoning excepte there be some generall rule and commaundement according to that example But was not Paule added to the number of the Apostles though there were no Some admitted to the ministerie a place beeing not voyde place voyde Were not also Barnabas Act. 14. Epaphroditus Phil. 2. Andronicus and Iunia Rom. 16. called Apostles I might therefore as wel reason thus Paule Barnabas c. were called to be Apostles when there was no place voyde Ergo some maye be called to the preaching of the Gospell though they haue no certayne cure But let vs sée how you will iustifie this assertion that there are no ordinarie ministers ecclesiasticall which be not locall and tyed to one congregation c. For I vtterly denie it in that sense that you speake it Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Page 42. Sect. 5. And that it may the better appeare that those functions doe onely remayne whiche are appoynted to one certayne place and that the Reader maye haue the clearer and playner vnderstanding of all this matter all the whole ecclesiasticall function maye be well deuided first into extraordinarie or those that endured for a time and into ordinarie whiche are perpetuall Of the firste sorte are the Apostles and Euangelistes whiche the Lorde vsed for a time as it were for chiefe Masons and principall buylders of his Churche as well to laye the foundations of Churches where none were as also to aduaunce them to suche forwardnesse and height vntill there might be gotten for the finishing of the buylding and house of the Churche fitte pastors Elders and Deacons And that beeing done they went from those places into others which thing may be perceyued by the continuall storie of the Actes of the Apostles and by diuers sentences which are founde in the Epistles of S. Paule And therfore also when the Churches haue bin by Antichrist euen rased from the foundations God hath stirred vp Euangelists euen immediatly by his spirite without any calling of men to restore his Churches agayne of whiche sorte was Master Wickli e in our Countrey M. Hus and Hierome of Prage in Bohemia Luther and Zuinglius in Germanie c. And after this sort God may at his good pleasure work when he purposeth to set in his Gospell in any nation where the whole face of the earth is couered with the darknesse of ignorance and want of the knowledge of God Io. Whitgifte Althoughe you can not warrant by the Scriptures this distinction of ordinarie and In what respect the Apostolical function was extraordinary extraordinarie ecclesiasticall functions yet I thinke the Apostolicall function was extraordinarie in respect that it had for the time certayne especiall properties as to beare witnesse of the resurrection of Christ and of his assention whiche they dyd sée with their eyes also to plant to found Churches Likewise to go throughout the whole worlde These I say were temporall and extraordinarie and so was the Apostleship in this respect but yet ordinarie in respect of their chiefe function which was to preache the Gospell and to gouerne the Churches whiche they had planted Likewise Euangelistes haue an ordinarie function neyther is there any cause why it should be called a temporall office but onely in respect of writing the Gospell for there is none that thinketh the office of preaching to be eyther extraordinarie or temporall But I pray you let me aske you one question why should not the office of Seniors be aswell extraordinarie and temporall as the office of an Apostle or an Euangelist for as you saye that the Apostleship and Euangelistship remayned vntil there might be gotten for the finishing of the buylding and house of the Churche fytte Pastors c. So say I that the office of Seniors and Elders might remayne in the Churche vntill there were christian Princes and Magistrates by whome the people of God might be kepte in peace and quietnesse and the Churches of Christ more perfectly gouerned And wel assured I am that there are as good reasons for this as there are for the other For as in the place of the Apostles Euangelistes c. are succéeded Bishops Pastors Doctors so I may say that in the place of Elders and Seniors are come Christian Princes and Magistrates As for this parte of the Apostles function to visite suche Churches as were before planted and to prouide that suche were placed in them as were vertuous and godly Pastors I knowe it remayneth still and is one of the chiefe partes of What part of the Apostles function remayneth the Bishops function as shall hereafter more at large appeare I graunte that Master Hus Hierome of Prage c. were stirred vp euen by God to preache his truthe and open the doore of his worde agayne yet were they called to some function of the Churche before althoughe that function were for the moste parte wicked and the Church almost wholly corrupted with superstition and errors But why you shoulde rather call them Euangelistes than Apostles Prophetes Pastors or Doctors I knowe not especially séeing some of them had ordinarie charges Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 1. Of this sorte of extraordinarie functions are the Prophets also which besides a singular dexteritie and readinesse of expounding the Scriptures had also the gifte of telling things to come whiche bicause it is not nowe ordinarily I thinke there is none will denie but it is an extraordinarie calling for the other two of the Apostles and Euangelistes it shall appeare more at large hereafter by occasion giuen
y ◠same also was vnder the Bishop of the citie Quod si amplior erat ager qui sub eius episcopatu erat quà m vt sufficere omnibus episcopi munijs vbique possit per ipsum agrum designabantur certis locis presbyteri qui in minoribùs negotijs eius vices obirent eos vocabant borepiscopos quòd per ipsam prouinciam episcopum representabant M. Beza lib. conf cap. 7 calleth the names of Archbishops Bishops c. Holie names for thus he sayth That Pastors in proces of tyme were distinct into Metropolitanes Bishops and those whome they nowe call Curates that is such as be appoynted to euery Parishe was not in the respect of the ministerie of the worde but rather in respecte of iurisdiction and discipline Therfore concerning the office of preaching the word and administring the Sacramentes there is no difference betwixte Archebishops Bishops and Curates for all are bounde to feede their flocke with the same breade and therefore by one common name in the Scriptures they bee called Pastours and Bishops But what impudencie is there in those men meaning the Papistes to vse those holie names and therfore to glorie of the succession of the Apostles and true Bishops In the same chapter he maketh two kynds of degrées vsed in the Papistical Churche the one vnknowne to the Apostles to the primitine church the other taken out of the word of God and from the primitiue Church In this second order he placeth Archebishops Curates Can ns Seniors or Ministers Archedeacons Deanes Subdeacons Clearkes But what should I stand longer in this matter There is not one writer of credit y t denieth this superioritie to haue bin always among the clergie and these degrées to come euen from the best tyme of the Church since the Apostles and so be both most auncient and generall Wherfore I can not but compt suche as denie so manifest a truthe eyther vnlearned and vnskilful persons or else verie wranglers and men desirous of contention A briefe comparison betvvixt the Bishops of our tyme and the Bishops of the primitiue Churche Chap. 8 I Knowe that comparisons be odious neither would I vse them at this tyme but that I am thervnto as it wer compelled by the vncharitable dealing of T. C. who by comparing the Bishops of our time with the Bishops in the olde Churche hath soughte by that meanes to disgrace them if it were possible I may peraduenture in this point sée me to some to flatter but the true iudgement therof I leaue to him that knoweth the secretes of the heart In the meane tyme I will affirme nothing which is not euident to all those that be learned diuines and not ouer ruled with affection My compar ion shal consist in these thrée points Truthe of doctrine Honestie of lise and right vse of externall things Touching the fyrst that is truth of doctrine I shall not néed much to labour For I think T. C. and his adherents wil not denie but that the doctrin taught professed by our Bishops at this day is much more perfect and sounder than it commonly was in any age after the Apostles time For the most part of the auncientest Bishops were deceyued with that grosse opinion of a thousande yeares after the resurrection wherein Euse. lib. 3. cap. 39. 35. the kingdome of Christe should here remaine vpon earth The fautors whereof were called M llenarij Papias who liued in Polycarpus and Ignatius his tyme béeing Bishop of erusalem was the first author of this errour and almost all the moste auncient fat ers were infected with the same Cyprian and the whole Councel of Carthage erred in rebaptisatiō Cyprian himself To. con 1. Lib. epi. 2. ep 3. also was greatly ouerseene in making it a matter so necessarie in the celebration of the Lords Supper to haue water mingled with wyne which was no doubt at y ◠tyme cōmon to moe than to him but the other opinion which he confuteth of vsyng water only is more absurd and yet it had at that tyme patrones among the Bishops Howe greatly were almost all the Bishops learned writers of the greke church yea and the Latines also for the most part spotted with doctrines of freewill of merites of inuocation of Sainctes suche lyke Surely you are not able to recken in any age since the Apostles tyme any companie of Bishops that taught helde so sound perfect doctrine in all poynts as the Bishops of England do at this tyme. If you speake of Ceremonies of the syncere administration of the sacraments you shall finde the like difference for compare the cerenionies that Tertullian sapet lib. decoro mil. then to be vsed in the Churche about the Sacraments and otherwise or those that Basile reherseth Lib. de Sancto spi. or suche as we may reade to haue bin in S. Augustins tyme with those that we nowe reteine in this Churche and you can not but acknowledge that therin we are come to a far greater perfection I meane not to stande in particulars I thinke T. C. and his companions wil not contende with me in this poynt for if they doe it is but to maynteyncontention Seing then that in the truthe of doctrine which is the chief and principall point oure Bishops be not only comparable with the olde Bishops but in many degrées to be preferred before them we thinke there is tootoo great iniurie done vnto them and to this doctrine whiche they professe when as they are so odiously compared and so contemptuously intreated by T. C. and his Colleags 2 Touching honestie of life which is the second point I wil not say much I do not think but that therin they may be compared with the old Bishops also and in some points preferred euery age hath some imperfectiōs in it and the best men are most subiect to the slanderous tong Great contention ther was among the Bishops in the Councell of Nice insomuch that euen in the presence of the Emperour they ceased not to libell one against an other What bitternesse and cursing was there betwixt Epiphanius and Chrysostome what affectionate dealyng of Theophilus agaynste the same Chrysostome what iarring betwixt Hierome and Augustine But I wil not prosecute this Men be they neuer so godly yet they be men the cōm n sorte of people when they waxe wearie of the worde of God truely preached then doe they begin to depraue the true and chiefe ministers of the same 3 For the third poynt that is the vse of external things if the ishops nowe haue more land liuing than Bishops had then it is the blessing of God vpon his church and it is commodious for the state and time If any man abuse himself therin let him be reformed let not his fault be made a pretence to cloke a minde desirous to spoyle I sée not how those lands and liuings can be imployed to more bene ite of y e churche cōmoditie of the
of so many good kings so many hundreth yeares to haue omitted the feastes of Tabernacles expressely by God commaunded Although I do not denie but suche men also may sometimes be ouerséene in some points but neither can you proue that they were deceiued in any substantiall point of doctrine neither yet if they were is this place aptly or truly alleadged The Epistle of T. C. Sect. 8. The dignitie also and high estate of those which are not so earnest in this cause can not hinder it if we consider the wisedome of God almost from time to time to consist and to shew it selfe most in setting foorth his truth by the simpler and weaker sort by cōtemptible and weake instruments 1. Cor. I. by things of no valew to the end that whē al men see the basenesse and rudenesse of the instrument they might the more wonder at the wisedome and power of the artificer which with so weake and foolish instruments bringeth to passe so wise and mightie things And if mē will with such an eye of fiesh looke vpon matters they shal condemne that excellent reformation made vnder the Godly king * Iosias is here alleadged for Ezechias Iosias which the holy Ghost doth so highly cōmēd In which it is witnessed that the (1) This place is not right interpreted Leuites 2. Chro. which were a degree vnder the priests were more forward and more zelous than the priests 29. Chap. themselues Yea wherein it is witnessed that the people were yet more earnest and more willing 2. Chro. than either the Leuites or the priests which thing if euer is verefyed in our time For whē (2) A manifest flatterie and the scripture abused to coloure it I cōsider the zeale for religion which sheweth it selfe in many as well of the nobilitie 30. Chap. and gentrie of this realme as of the people their care to continue it and aduaunce it their voluntary charges to mainteine it their liberalitie towards them which bend themselues that way as I do thereby conceiue some hope of the fauorable countenaunce and cōtinuaunce of Gods goodnesse towards vs So I cannot be but ashamed of mine owne slackensse and afraid of the displeasure of the Lorde for that those whose proper worke this is especially and which shoulde beare the standard and carrie the torch vnto the rest are so cold and so carelesse in these matters of the Lord. Io. Whitgifte I knowe none among vs which in the respect of his dignitie and high estate séeketh or desireth to be preferred or beleued before you but in the respect of the cause which is the peace of the Church suppression of schismes and the truth it selfe No man denieth but God of his wisedome in the beginning of the Church of Christ poured God vseth not the simple only or alwayes to set foorthe his truth out his gifts more plenteously vpon the simpler contemptible and weaker sorte and that he choosed for his Apostles fishermen tollegatherers and ignorant persons lest that shoulde be ascribed to the wit eloquence and learning of man which commeth only of the goodnesse might and power of God as the Apostle plainly declareth 1. Cor. 1. 2. But will you therefore conclude that truth zeale and godlinesse remayneth either only or especially in the simple rude and ignorant sort and make thys your conclusion the learned the honorable men of great countenance or knowledge be of this or that opinion Ergo it is not true Or the simple rude and ignorant people ar thus and thus perswaded Ergo they must be followed or to the like effect Uerely this were to reason as the Franciscan friers do to excuse their ignorance Apostoli nesciebant literas ergo Franciscanis non est opus literis And like some other phantastical persons also which thinke that no learned rich or honorable man shall be saued but only beggers and such as be ignorant as master Gualter testifyeth in his commentaries vpon 1. Cor. 1. Gual in 1. Cor. I. hom 7. You know as I suppose that this place of the. 1. Cor. 1. quoted in your margent doth not gather any suche conclusion that therefore the doctrine is not true bycause Princes nobles wise and learned men c. do allow of it or therefore it is true bycause it pleaseth the simple rude and ignorant people For Nicodemus Ioseph Lazarus Betha Sergius Paulus Dionisius Areopagita Crispus Gaius Erastus with diuers others were politique wise welthy learned and honorable men and the Prophete Esay saithe That kings and Queenes shall be the nursing fathers and mothers the defenders and mainteiners of the Churche And Bullinger in his cōmentaries vpō Esay 49. this place doth thus expounde it He speaketh of the first calling especially wherein fishermen Bull. in 1. Co. I. and Idiots were especially called to the preaching of the Gospell For no man can denie but that after the Gospell was confirmed in the world the best learned imbraced the truth For first shepherds declared that Christ was borne then the Magi that is the wise men of the East came to salute him with gifts Wherefore I pray you let not the wealthe calling or dignitie which you thinke we haue preiudice our cause The simple and plaine meaning of the place is that God in his electing to eternall life hath neyther respect to nobilitie learning riches or any such thing I might héere againe trippe you for alleadging Iosias in stead of Ezechias and say that you had not read the Scriptures or that you vsed other mens notes and so dallie with you as you vse to do with others But I will leaue such kind of gibes to brabling Sophisters in the schooles thinke that it was some light ouersight which in such a case may sometimes happen to him that is most circumspect Your collection vpon that place 2. Chro. 29. and. 30. I can not as yet allowe vntill I be better instructed therein for wheras you saye that it is there witnessed that the Leuites which were a degree vnder the Priestes were more forward and more zelous than the Priests themselues and the people more earnest and more willing than eyther the Leuites or the Priests I sée not how you can gather any suche thing out of either of these two Chapters for if there be any sentence to gather it of in the. 29. Chap. it is the. 34. verse which although in some translation it séeme to insinuate some such thing yet if credite may be giuen to those that be notable learned men and very wel séene in the Hebrue song the meaning of that place is nothing lesse Pellicane translateth the words thus Leuitae quippe faciliori ritu sanctificantur quam sacerdotes For the Leuites were sooner or easyer sanctifyed than the priests which he expoundeth more plainly in hys Pel. in 2. Chr. 29. commentaries saying Intelligitur sacerdotum numerum imminutum fuisse c. It is to bee vnderstanded that the number of
no such weight then can you not excuse eyther your selfe or them In déed the Papists haue no iust matter of reioycing for they disagrée both in me also in far greater matters thā these be euen in y e chiefest points of their religion but this is no sufficient excuse for vs we may not disagrée in truth bicause they disagrée in error Neither ought the weak to be offended bicause such cōtentions haue bin vsual in the Church as I haue also shewed in myne Epistle dedicatorie to the Churche of England But yet wo be vnto those by whome suche offences come T. C. And it is to be remembred that these controuersies for the most part are not betwene many For sundry of those things which are cōprehended in the answer to the Admonition haue as I am persuaded few fauorers of those especially which are of any stayed or soūder iudgement in y e scriptures and haue sene or red of the gouernment and order of other Churches so that in deed the father of that answere excepted we haue this controuersie oftentimes rather with the Papistes than with those whiche professe the Gospell as we doe Io. Whitgifte Certainly I do not willingly defend any thing against the word of God or of mine own priuate persuasion but I haue either sufficient warrant of the worde of God or some godly lerned zelous authors iudgement for the same If I haue done otherwise I trust I shal heare of it in this booke but I am fully persuaded that all men of stayed and sound iudgement ioyne with me in these matters such especially as haue had the beste experience of the order and gouernment of other reformed Churches for proofe whereof I referre you to the wisest godlyest and best learned among the clergie in this lande T. C. And where as last of all it is sayde that this precedeth of enuie of singularitie and of popularitie although these be no sufficient reasons agaynst the truth of the cause whiche is neither enuious singular nor popular and although they be such as might be seuerally by greate likelyhodes probabilities refuted yet bicause the knowledge of these things pertaineth only to God which is the searcher of the heart raynes and for auoyding of to much tediousnesse we will reste in his iudgement tary for the day wherin the secretes of hearts shal be made manifest And yet all men doe see how vniustly we be accused of singularitie * Notable vntruths as wil fal out in triall which propound nothing that the Scriptures doe not teache the writers both olde and newe for the moste parte affirme the examples of the Primitiue Churches and of those which are at these dayes confirme Io. Whitgifte Whether if procéede of enuie or no lette the manner bothe of their and your writings declare Popularitie you can not auoyde séeing you séeke so greate an equalitie committe so many thyngs to the voyces of the people and in sundrye places so greately magnifye and extoll them than the whyche thrée what can bée more popular Singularitie and the properties therof It is Singularitie to deuyde youre selfe from that Churche whyche bothe professe the woorde of God truely and is not to bée touched in any poynte of doctrine necessarie to saluation It is true that a godly learned writer sayth Charitie Musc. in 〈◊〉 Mat. knittes together and reconcileth singularitie cutteth in peeces and diuideth it is the beginning and roote of all heresie to hate contemne the cōmunion of the church And a little after There be some contentious persons whom no church can please always hauing some thing to blame in other but nothing in themselues which is a manifest signe of singularitie But bicause the mindes and affections of men are certainly knowne only to God the determinate iudgement hereof I also referre vnto him As for this bolde assertion that you propeund nothing that the scriptures doe not teach c. howe true it is must hereafter by examination appeare The Epist. of T. C. Sect. 13. All these accusations as wel against the cause as the fauourers therof albeit they be many and diuers yet are they no other thā which haue bin long sithens in the Prophets apostles our sauior Christs now of late in our times obiected against the truth the professors therof And therefore as y e sunne of the truth then appered brake through al those clouds which rose against it to stop the light of it so no doubt this cause being of the same nature will haue the same effect And as all those sclanders could not bring the truth in disgrace with those y t loued it so the children of y e truth through these vntrue reports wil neither leaue the loue of this cause which they haue alredy cōceiued nor yet ceasse to enquire diligently to iudge indifferētly of those surmises which are put vp aagaynst it Io. Whitgifte These be but words of course which men of any sect though not truly wil apply vnto thēselues if they be otherwise delt with than they can wel beare The truth certainly can not be kept vnder by any meanes and yet sometime error ouershadoweth the truth euen as the cloudes do the Sunn My hope also is that men will not be caried away with slaunderous reportes ▪ for if they shoulde then musre you néedes preuayle but with sounde reasons and the truth of the cause The Epistle of T. C. Sect. 14. Moreouer seing that we haue once ouercōmed al these lets climed ouer them when they wer cast in our way to hinder vs from cōming frō the grosse darknesse of Poperie vnto y e glorious light of the Gospel there is no cause why now they shuld stay our course to further perfection cōsidering that neither the stile is higher now thā it was before being the very selfe same obiections in all this time we ought so to haue grown in knowledge of the truth that in stead of being then able to leape ouer a hedge we should now haue our feete so prepared by the Gospell that they shoulde be as the feete of a hynde able to surmount euen a wall if neede were Io. Whitgifte There is but one truth that is certain whē we haue obteined if we must therin remain constant without altering whosoeuer shal ouerleap or ouerrun this wall must of necessitie procure vnto himself great danger and therfore according to the olde prouerbe Looke before thou leape We must grow in faith knowledge always be growing going forward but it doth not therfore follow y t we must dayly inuent new opinions or broach new dectrines alter in iudgement we must grow in strength of faith we must increace in practise and loue of vertue we must studie to encrease our knowledge that we may be the more confirmed in the truthe that we haue learned out of the worde of God This is an euill collection we must grow in the knowledge of
whole Church of making of such orders may and ought to be called to a certayne number that confusion may be auoyded and with the consent also of the Churches to auoyde tyrannie it shall appeare in a more proper place where we shall haue occasion to speake of the eldership or gouernment in euery Church and of the communion and societie or participation intercommuning of the Churches togyther by councels and assemblies prouinciall or nationall Io. Whitgifte Diuers of those learned men here named being rightly enformed of the state of The occasion of mens writings must be considered this controuersie with all the circumstances perteyning therevnto haue set downe their opinions in writing and therefore if it should so come to passe which as yet is not proued neyther as I thinke will be that in their publike writings they should séeme to affirme any thing contrary to their priuate letters it is bycause they speaking generally of all and hauing respect to the time and place wherein and when such things were abused haue generally spoken of them otherwise then they do as they be now vsed in this Church of England And surely in my opinion these their epistles wherein of purpose being required they gyue their sentence of suche matters oughte to be more credited than their generall writings wherein they maye séeme otherwise to speake vppon other occasions But I thinke that in the ende it will fall out that they haue written nothyng publikely againste any thing that is written by them priuately and of some of them I am sure that their publike and priuate writings of these matters doe fully agrée But where haue you learned to answere on this sorte to the authoritie of learned men to accuse them of contrarietie before you haue manifestly proued it is to doe vnto them great iniurie The place of M. Bucer maketh directly for my purpose and therefore in giuyng place vnto it you graunte as muche as I hitherto haue required For M. Bucer vsed the example of apparell whiche is one thing in controuersie betwixte vs and sayeth playnly that the Church hath authoritie to appoint such things as haue neyther cōmaundement nor example in the Scripture These Epistles of M. Bucer and of M. Martyr with the Epistles of other learned men be printed and published wholly and fully and it can not bée that the same should be vnknown vnto you the bookes being so cōmon your pleading of ignorance in this thing is but a colour When euery Minister must be chiefe of the seigniorie and haue with some other of the parishe the whole authoritie Ecclesiasticall when they must not bee so First admo ▪ the. 14. reason tyed to any forme of prayers but as the spirite moueth them so to poure out supplications when the Prince is secluded from authoritie in appoynting of ceremonies and orders of discipline that is when in Ecclesiasticall matters you giue to the Ciuill magistrate no more than the Papistes do to wit potestatem facti and not potestatem iuris as will afterwardes more plainly appeare what is it else but for euery minister to be Pope in his owne parishe and to vse suche order discipline and seruice as he himselfe listeth If you had bin disposed to speake the truthe and to report my wordes as they be written you woulde haue eased your booke of these lynes whiche followe For where doe I giue this authoritie to the Bishops or in what words do I restrayne the Churche to them my wordes be these Is it not as lawfull for a godly Prince with the aduise and consente of godlie and learned Bishops and other of the wysest to make orders in the Church c. You sée that I ioyne the Prince the Bishops and other of the wisest together in making of orders c. and whensoeuer I meane the Churche in suche a case I meane not the confused multitude of the Church but suche as God hath called to gouerne his Church in the externall gouernment whome I take to be in this Churche the Prince the Bishops the Councell and suche other as by the order of this Churche haue to do in suche like matters Your falsifying hurteth not me but discrediteth your selfe and your cause The Bishops haue muche to thanke you that it would please you to admitte them into that consultation of yours if they woulde giue ouer that office and callyng But thanks be vnto God you haue as yet no suche authoritie committed vnto you Wherfore this and suche lyke kynde of speaches doe but declare howe magnifically you thynke of your selfe c. If it pertayne to the whole Churche that is as I thinke you vnderstande it to the whole multitude of the Churche to make suche orders howe can you restraine it to a certaine number or why not as well to some one if the multitude thynke it so conuenient but of this matter when you come to youre seigniorie and kinde of gouernment Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 30. Sect. 1. An examination of the places c. TO proue that nothing in this mortall lyfe is more diligently to be sought for and carefully to be looked vnto than the restitution of true Religion and reformation of Gods Churche there is noted 2. Reg. 23. 2. Chro. 17. 2. Chro. 29. 30. 31. Psalm .. 132 Math 21. Ioh. 2. In the firste place it is declared howe Iosiah after he had founde the booke of the lawe reformed the Churche In the seconde place Iehosaphat tooke away the high places and groues out of Iuda c. In the 29. 30. 31. of the. 2. Chron. is described the doings of Ezechias in repairing the temple and reforming religion c. In the. 132. Psalme it is declared with what care Dauid went about to build the temple of God after that he was once established in his kingdome In the. 12. of Math. Iesus went into the temple and cast out all them that bought and sold in the temple c. The like he did in the seconde of Iohn All this is confessed to be true and no man denieth it And I pray God make vs thankfull for the Queenes maiestie who hathe not bin slacke in this point but hath like a vertuous religious and godly prince in the very entring into hir raigne notwithstanding the multitude of hir aduersaries bothe at home and abrode abolished all superstition and restored the simplicitie of the Gospell But these men alleadge these places to the discredite of this reformation and of the whole gouernmente of this Churche How aptly and how truly let godly wise and learned meniudge Io. Whitgifte All this is passed ouer with silence and nothing said vnto it good or bad The exposition of the places Deu. 4. 12. quoted by the Admonition Cap. 6. The first Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 30. Sect. 2. TO proue that these things only are to be placed in gods Church The places in the. 4. and. 12. o Deutero expounded whiche God himselfe in
I were a Lawyer I could tell you that this law admitteth many exceptions What is more expedient for all men than to haue a good Prince good Councellors good Iudges c. and yet I thinke it were moste pernicious to haue those offices committed to the election of the people But what néede I stryue with you in this matter For if those things that be concluded by Parliament be by the consent of the moste parte of the Realme bicause the peoples consent is there in their knightes of their shires and other Burgeses as in déede it is whiche you also confesse then haue you no more to saye in this matter for the booke of ordering Ministers and Deacons c. is allowed and graunted by Parliament and therefore the Bishops and Ministers of this Churche of England are chosen by the consent of the people nay which is more of the whole Realme bicause they are ordeyned and chosen according to that order and rule whiche the whole realme in Parliament hath made and bounde them selues vnto But by the way if this grounde of lawe be good in that sense that you alleage it and be transferred to the ciuill state it will be founde very daungerous and tootoo muche sauouring of popularitie as in déede the whole course of your doctrine is Chapter 5. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Pag. 33. Sect. 1. So is it also when the question is to choose the Magistrate Mayre or Bayliffe or Constable of euery towne whiche things if they haue groundes in ciuill affayres they haue muche better in Ecclesiasticall For it is muche more vnreasonable that there shoulde be thrust vpon me a gouernour of whome the euerlasting saluation or damnation bothe of my body and soule dothe depende than him of whome my wealth and commoditie of this lyfe dothe hang. Unlesse those vpon whome he were thrust were fooles or madde men or children without all discretion of ordering themselues whiche as I will shewe can not agree with those that are the Churche of God and are to haue a Pastor For they of the Churche of God althoughe they be called sheepe in respect of their simplicitie and harmlesnesse yet are they also for their circumspection wise as serpentes in the wisedome especially whiche is to saluation and howe (a) No man keth vi e a ouÌ„t of the people of God but you partly of 〈◊〉 partly of popular affection would haue it seeme so thereby to 〈◊〉 hatred agaynst vs. vyle accompte soeuer you will make of them they are the people of God and therefore spirituall and foorthwith those of whome sainct 1. Cor. 2. Paule sayth the spirituall man discerneth all things Io. Whitgifte The disorder of suche popular elections hathe bin suche the contentions moued Elections by the multituâ—e are for y e most parte tumultuous in them so great the ambition of the persons standing in election so notorious the partiall affection of the people inclining to their kinsfolkes friendes or landlords c. so vntollerable to be short the lacke of iudgement discretion in many of them so apparant that that maner of electing vpon great coÌ„siderations hath bin altred in diuers places desired to be altered in others also by al those that are wise discrete that wishe for quietnesse good gouernment Neither is it true that the election of those officers which you name is euery where in the people In the best ordered Cities and townes it is otherwise and experience dothe teache that those offices whiche are in the Princes bestowing and some other to whome she committeth the same are the best bestowed and vpon the moste worthyest persons as Bishoprikes the offices of Iudges Iustices c. In ecclesiasticall affayres it is muche méeter that suche as haue knowledge zeale and care for the people shoulde place ouer them a méete and fitte Pastor than that the choyse of him should be committed to the multitude whiche is not onely for the moste parte ignorant but carelesse in suche matters yea and oftentimes euill disposed and commonly led by affection as friendship hatred feare c. I knowe that Christian men are not called sheepe bycause they be voyde of reason ChristiaÌ„ men eepe For as Chrysostome saythe Oues sunt sed rationales They are sheepe but suche as are indued with reason And god dothe at one tyme or other if they be his open hys truthe vnto them and indueth them with the spirite of discerning betwixte true and false doctrine in those things that doe pertayne to their saluation But bicause God dothe in his good time open his truthe vnto them are they therfore alwayes voyde of affection and errour or bicause some haue this spirite of discretion is it therefore common to all or to the moste parte In déede if you speake of the inuisible Church which is onely of the electe then is it something that you say but if you speake of the visible Churche whiche is a mixture of good and euill and wherein the euill are the greater number then hath your saying no probabilitie in it And why may not the Pope as well reason of this place 1. Cor. 2. that he can not erre in matters of religion Scripture vn aptly alleaged by T. C. as you may that Parishes can not be deceyued in electing their pastors for he dothe alleage this texte for himselfe to the same purpose but the meaning of the Apostle is this that he onely whiche is ruled and gouerned by the spirite of God hath the true knowledge of the mysteries of God and is able to discerne the truthe from falshood You can no more proue therefore by this sentence that the Parishes can not erre in choosing their Pastors than the Pope may doe that himselfe generall Councels and the Churche can not erre and surely the more I consider the matter the more I maruell what your meaning is in alleaging this texts Chapter 5. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 33. Sect. 2. Moreouer reason and experience teacheth that it maketh much to the profiting of the Church vnder the hande of the Pastor or Bishop that the Churche loue him and reuerence him For the contempte and hatred of the minister for the moste parte standeth not in his owne person but reacheth euen vnto the doctrine which he teacheth But the Minister that the Churche desireth it commonly best loueth and moste reuerenceth and of the other side hateth and contemneth him that is thrust vpon them therefore it maketh muche to the profiting of the people in the doctrine of the Gospell that the minister come in by their consent Likewise the people muste by S. Paule hys 1. Tim. 4. rule followe the good example of the Minister but men wyll not likely followe their examples whome they loue not nor loue them which are thrust vpon them agaynst their willes Therefore it standeth with the good conuersation and godly following of the steppes of the minister that he be with the consent of the
foresayde Aërius he proueth his errour aud the errour of those that heare him by this that the Apostle writte to Priests and Deacons and dyd not write to Byshops And to the Bishop he sayth neglect not the gifte that is in thee whiche thou hast receyued by the handes of the Presbyterie And agayne in another place he writeth to Bishops and Deacons wherefore sayth he a Bishop and a Priest is all one and he knoweth not whiche is ignorante of the sequele of the truthe and hathe not read profounde stories that when the preaching was but newely begonne the holy Apostle writte according to the state of things as they were then for where there were Bishops appoynted he writte to Bishops and Deacons for the Apostle coulde not by and by at the first appoynte all things for there was neede of Priests and Deacons bicause by those two ecclesiasticall matters maye be complete And where there was not any founde worthy a Bishopricke there the place remayned without a Bishop but where there was neede and worthy men to be Bishops there were Bishops appoynted And when there was not so many that there coulde be founde amongst them meete to be Priests they were content with one Bishop in an appoynted place but it is vnpossible for a Bishop to be without a Deacon and the holy Apostle had a care that Deacons shoulde be where the Bishop was for the ministerie So dyd the Churche receyue the fulnesse of dispensation suche was then the state and condition of the places For euery thing had not the perfection from the beginning but in processe of time those things whiche were necessarie to perfection were added c. The Apostle teacheth who is a Bishop and who is a Priest when he sayth to Timothie that was a Bishop chide not a Priest but exhorte him as a father what should a Bishop haue to doe not to chide a Priest if he had not authoritie aboue a Priest As he also sayth agayne agaynst a Priest admitte no accusation sodenly without two or three witnesses and he sayde not to any Priest admit no accusation agaynst a Bishop neyther did he write to any Priest that he shoulde not rebuke a Bishop Thus mayest thou sée good Reader that it is not for nought that T. C. so stormes agaynst Epiphanius and so vnreuerently vseth him But I wyll giue him as muche cause to deale in like maner with Augustine who August ad Quod-vult in this matter fully ioyneth with Epiphanius and in that booke of his de haeresibus ad quod-vult-deum quoted by T. C. in his margent attributeth this also as heresie to the sayde Acrius adding that the cause of this and other of his heresies was bicause he himselfe was not made Bishop Chap. 3. the. 59. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 72. Sect. 4. That this worde presbyter in this place of the Apostle signifieth a minister of the worde bothe Ambrose Caluine and other learned writers declare T. C. Page 87. Sect. 4. And whereas M. Doctor citeth Ambrose Caluine and other godly wryters to proue that the minister is vnderstanded by the worde Elder or Presbyter he keepeth his olde wonte by bringing stickes into the wood and prouing alwayes that which no man denieth and yet with the minister of the worde he also vnderstandeth the Elder of the Churche whiche ruleth and dothe not labour in the worde But therein is not the matter for I doe graunt that by Presbyter the minister of the word is vnderstanded yet nothing proued of that which M. Doctor would so fayne proue Io. Whitgifte I adde this interpretation that the Reader may vnderstande Timothie to haue authoritie ouer Bishops and Ministers of the worde least you by cauilling shoulde shifte off this place with your signification of Seniors whiche were not ministers of the worde as you say All this whyle haue I looked for the performance of your promise to proue that That Timothie was Bishop Timothie and Titus were no Bishops But bicause I perceyue that you are content to forget it I will héere perfourme mine least I fall into the same faulte with you repeating only that which I haue before added to my answere in the 2. edition least I shoulde put the Reader bothe to coste and paynes in searching for it there First therefore that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus the whole course of the 1 The course of the Epistle two Epistles written vnto him declareth wherein is conteyned the office and duety of a Bishop and diuers precepts peculiarly perteyning to that function as it is manyfest neyther were those Epistles written to Timothie for the instruction of other onely but for the instruction of him selfe also as the whole course of bothe the Epistles doe declare and all learned expositours confesse Secondly the subscription of the seconde Epistle is this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 The subscrip tion The seconde Epistle was written from Rome to Timothie who was ordeyned the first Bishop of the Churche of Ephesus when Paule appeared before the Emperour Nero the seconde time Whiche althoughe it be lefte out in some Gréeke Testamentes yet is it in the moste the best and the auncientest yea almoste in all neyther is this a sufficient answere to saye that the subscription of some one or two Epistles séeme to be vntrue therefore this is vntrue For the subscription as it is no doubt of great antiquitie so is it consonant to al olde auncient authoritie Thirdly the vniuersal consent of histories conclude him to be Bishop at Ephesus 3 Consent of hystories Eusebius lib. 3. cap. 4. saythe that Timothie was the first Bishop of Ephesus Dorotheus who lyued in Dioclesians time wryteth that Paule made him Bishop of Ephesus Nicephorus lib. 2. cap. 34. sayth that Paule made him Bishop of Ephesus before he writ his first Epistle vnto him Hierome in catalog scripto Ecclesi sayth that he was made Bishop of Ephesus by Paule Isidorus de Patribus noui Testamenti sayth also that he was Bishop of Ephesus Antoninus parte 1. titulo 6. cap. 1. affyrmeth the same oute of Polycrates So dothe Supplementum chroni So dothe also Volaterane lib. 20. where he calleth him Praesulem Ephesinum And all the Histories that I haue read whiche make any mention of him Historia Magdel centu 1. lib. 2. cap. 10. in vita Ioan. Euang. hathe these words Constat Paulum Ephesinae ecclesiae Timotheum dedisse pastorem It is certayne that Paule appoynted Timothie Pastor of the Churche of Ephesus Surely it is the generall consente of all hystories that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus Fourthly the fathers affirme the same 4 Content of fathers Dionisius Areopagita so called of some men who liued in the Apostles time wryteth his booke De diuinis nominibus to Timothie Bishop of Ephesus Epiphanius lib. 3. tom 1. affirmeth that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus Ambrose sayth the same in his Preface to the first Epistle written to Timothie Chrysostome in
made 〈◊〉 Archbishop of Creta Erasmus saith Paulus Titū Archiepiscopū Eras. in arg epi. ad Titum Chryso cap. Tit. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And Lyra likevvise sayth Paulus instituit Titum Archiepiscopum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 authorities like you not Chrysostome sayth Paulus Tito mul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 commisit Novv hauing the gouernment of many Byshops 〈◊〉 may vve call him but an Archbyshop T. C. Pag 93. Sect. 2. For the 〈◊〉 ast reasons against the Archbyshop and Archdeacon although I be well acquayn 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that fauour this cause yet I did neuer heare them before in my life and I beleue ther 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is be his reasons whose they are supposed to be and which did set downe the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Byshop confuteth Notwithstanding the former of these two seemeth to haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be grounded of that place of Logike that sheweth that according as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of any thing is excellent so are those things that are annexed and adioyned vnto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I would she simplest should vnderstande what is sayde or written I will willing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 reasons the termes whereof are not easily perceyued but of those whyche be 〈◊〉 Io. Whitgifte 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you may dilclaime what you lyste for you coulde neuer be brought before The inconstancie of the Replyer his companions 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 downe your reasons in writing and there is no holde at your worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euen at your pleasure and so wil diuerse of your com as 〈◊〉 hath taught But yet you thinke that this former reason hath a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 〈◊〉 you answere not one word to my L. of Sarums solution which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be very fonde Chap. 4. the. 15. Diuision T. C. Pag. 93. Sect. 3. And as for the answere which the Bishop maketh that in place of Apostles Prophets y e giftes of tongues of healing of gouernmēt are brought in vniuersities scholes Bishops Archbishops for scholes vniuersities I haue shewco they haue bin alwayes therfore cannot come in to supply the roome of the Apostles prophets And whether a man consider the schollers that learne or the scholemasters which teach or the orders appoynted for the gouernment of y e scholes they shal be founde to be rather ciuill than Ecclesiasticall and therfore can not come in steade of any Ecclesiasticall ministerie If the Bishop do meane that they come in place of the gift of the tongs and knowledge of the Gospell that was first giuen miraculously I graunt it and then it maketh nothing to this question Io. Whitgifte You haue not shewed that scholes vniuersities were alwayes in the Church of Christ nor you cannot shew that there were any vniuersities or scholes of Christians in the Apostles time I am not disposed to contrary any thing y t is alleaged for vniuersities or scholes neither would I haue you to denie this truth affirmed by my L. of Sarum for it is certeine that God worketh now in the Churche by meanes of vniuersities scholes that which he wrought in the Apostles time myraculously by his Apostles prophets And those gifts of tongs healing gouernment c. which he then inspired at once without teaching doth he now giue by little little vsing y e ministery of scholes vniuersities such like wherfore it is true that the Bishop hath said And wheras you say y e scholes whether a man consider y e schollers that learne or the scholemasters which teach or orders appointed for y e gouernment of y e scholes they shall be founde rather ciuill than Ecclesiasticall If you speake of scholes in a prophane or heathenishe common wealth it is true But if you speake of a Christian kingdome it is most vntrue For in a Christian cōmon wealth scholes are the first nurses that bring vp childrē in y e true knowledge of God of his word prepare many of thē to the ministerie both which are Ecclesiasticall Moreouer if you talke of vniuersities such especially as be in thys Realme of England then whether you consider either y e masters fellowes or schollers or rules or orders appointed for y e gouernment of them they be for y e most parte Ecclesiasticall and therfore those things make greatly for the purpose and you haue said nothing that can ouerthrow them Chap. 4. the. 16. Diuision T. C. Pag. 93. Sect. 4. As for Bishops they can not come in place of Apostles or prophets for as much as they were when the Apostles Euangelists prophets were are one of those ministeries which S. Paule mentioneth in the. 4. to the Ephesians being the same that is the pastor Io. Whitgifte I tolde you before that y e part of the Apostles office which consisted in gouernment is now remaining in Archbishops and Bishops as to visite Churches to reforme disorders to suppresse contentions and such like which also they practised in the Apostles time in such places as were committed vnto them by the Apostles as it is euident in Timothie and Titus That Bishops do succeede the Apostles in this function of gouernment it may appeare Bishops succeed Apostles in gouernmēt Cyprian by sundry learned writers Cyprian Lib. 3. Epist. 9. writeth thus But Deacons must remember that the Lord hath chosen Apostles that is to say Bishops and chief gouernours but the Apostles after the Ascention of the Lord into heauen did appoint vnto themselues Deacons Ministers of their Bishopricke and of the Churche And Ambrose in 4. ad Ephe. Ambrose Zuinglius saith Apostoli Episcopi sunt Apostles are Byshops Zuinglius also in his Ecclesiastes saith that the Apostles when they left of goyng from place to place and remayned in one Churche were no more called Apostles but Byshops as Iames at Ierusalem and Iohn at Ephesus Wherby it may appeare that it séemeth straunge neither to the olde wryters nor to to the new to say that Byshops succéede the Apostles and come in place of the Chap. 4. the. 17. Diuision T. C. Page 93. Sect. vlt. There remayneth therfore the Archebishoppe whyche if he came in place of the Prophetes and Apostles as the Bishoppe sayth how commeth it to passe that the bishop sayth by and by out of the authoritie of Erasmus that Titus was an archebishoppe for at that tyme there was bothe Apostles Prophetes and Euangelistes If it bee so therefore that the Archbyshoppe muste supplye the wante of Apostles c. howe commeth it to passe hee wayteth not his tyme whylest they were dead but commeth in lyke vnto one which is borne out of tyme and lyke the vntymely and hastye fruite whyche is seldome or neuer holesom And for one to come into the Apostles or Prophetes place requirerh the authoritie of hym whych ordeyned the Apostles c. whyche is the Lorde and his institution in his worde whiche is that whiche we desire to be shewed But hereof I haue spoken before at large Io. Whitgifte It is not vnknowne to suche as
especially séeing that Ambrose Hieronis auncient denieth the same to haue bin in his tyme. But if hauing one onely testimonie and that making nothing for your purpose but agaynst you rather bicause it establisheth Collegiate Churches which you would gladly throwe downe then M. Doctors knowledge in thys matter is more than you can with all your loftie spéeches immodest words obscure I haue alleaged so muche of Ambrose faythfully aud truely as proueth that which I alleage him for Neyther haue I left out one worde that maketh agaynst that my purpose for if you remember your selfe you can not but sée and vnderstande that I only alleage Ambrose to proue that there was sometime a Seigniorie but yet dissolued and abrogated before his time If that whiche followeth in Ambrose disproue this then in déede you may say that eyther I am abused or desire to abuse other But if it nothing derogate from my intent and purpose then why do you falsly charge me or why picke you a quarel agaynst me for omitting that which neyther doth me harme nor good Disproue any thing by any words of Ambrose that I haue alleaged Ambrose for if you can if you can not then temper your immoderate spéeches frame them according to the truthe If Ambrose so misliked y e abrogating of this Seigniorie why did he not labour to restore it agayne surely if it had bin a matter so necessarie he béeing so godly and zelous a Bishop would neuer haue suffered his Church to be spoyled of it but it is euident by his words that it had not bin in practise long time before Chap. 2. the. 27. Diuision T. C. Pag. 146. Sect. 1. Now that I haue shewed the place I will say no more I will leaue it to M. Doctor to think of it in his chamber by himselfe and so will conclude this question that for so much as this order is such as without which the principall offices of charitie can not be exercised and that whyche is commaunded by the scriptures approued and receyued by all the Churches in the Apostles tymes and many hundred yeres after in the most florishing churches both in time of peace and in time of persecution and that there are greater causes why it shoulde be in the time of peace than in tyme of persecution why rather vnder a christian prince than vnder a tyrant why rather nowe than in the Apostles tymes that in consideration of these things the Eldership is necessarie and suche an order as the Churche ought not be without Io. Whitgifte It forceth not greatly whether you say any more of it or no for as it nothing hindreth my purpose so winneth it no credite vnto yours And for asmuch as the Church may muche better be gouerned and the principall offices of charitie much better exercised by the ciuil Magistrate than by these Seniors and séeing that this kinde of gouernment is neyther commaunded in the scriptures nor practised in the Church as a kinde of gouernment not to be altered séeing also that it bringeth in confusion derogateth from that authoritie that God hath giuen to the ciuil Magistrate howsoeuer it hath héeretofore bin vsed yet is there no cause why it should nowe or at any tyme vnder Christian Princes be of necessitie reteyned Chap. 2. the. 28. Diuision T. C. Pag. 146. Sect. 1. And so also is answered the thirde question that for so muche as they were Churche officers a The place Heb. 13. is quoted only for the phrase for it pro ueth nothing in question and ouer the people in matters perteyning to God and such as watched ouer the soules of men a Heb. 13. that therfore although they were not Pastors to preache the word yet were they no lay men as they terme them but ecclesiasticall persons Io. Whitgifte M. Beza in an Epistle that is prefixed before the confession of the Churches in Beza Hel tia speaking of the Seigniorie sayth that there must be a great consideration had that Princes and noble men and suche as haue authoritie and preheminence in the Churche be chosen to be of the Seigniorie and will you make noble men and Princes ecclesiasticall persons and suche as must watche ouer the soules of men in déede those that be called Presbyteri in the Scriptures be Ecclesiasticall persons for they be ministers of the worde and Sacraments And M. Caluine Institut cap. 8. sect 52. Caluine sayth that all the Seniors were ministers of the worde His words be these Habebant ergo singulae Ciuitates Presbyterorū collegium qui pastores erant Doctores nam apud populū munus docendi exhortandi corrigendi quod Paulus Episcopis iniungit OMNES obibant for euery Citie had a Colledge of Seniors which were Pastors and teachers for they dyd all exercise among the people the offyce of teaching exhorting and correcting which Paule dothe inioyne to Bishops But howe can you make your Seniors ecclesiasticall séeing your Seigniorie must consist of noble men gentlemen marchauntmen husbandmen handycraftesmen as Taylors Shomakers Carpenters c. euen suche as the most part of the Parish will choose Chap. 2. the. 29. Diuision Admonition Then the sentence was tempred according (h) 1. Ti. 1. 20. to the notoriousnesse of the fact Nowe on the one 〈◊〉 eyther hatred agaynst some persons carrieth men headlong into rash and cruell iudgement or else fauour affection or money mitigateth the rigour of the same and all this commeth to passe bicause the regiment lefte of Christ (i) Mat. 18. 7. 1. Co. 12. 28 Rom. 12. 8. 1. Ti. 5. 17. Act. 15. 2. 4 6. 22. 23. to his Churche is committed into one mans hands whome alone it shall be more easie for the wicked by bribing to peruert than to ouerthrow the fayth pietie of a zelous and godly companie for suche maner of men in deede (k) Exod. 18. 21 Deut. 1. 13. should the Seniors be Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 130. Sect. vlt. Pag. 131. 132. Pag. 133. Lin. vlt. Pag. 134. Sect. 1. You say all this commeth to passe bicause the regiment left of Christ to his Church is committed vnto one mans hands and for the proofe of this you note in the margent the. 18. of Mat. the. 12. of the first to the Corin. the. 12. to the Rom. the. 5. of the first to Timoth. the. 15. of the Acts whiche places beeing examined let the discrete Reader iudge howe aptly they serue for your purpose In the. 18. of Math. Christ sayeth on this sort If thy brother trespasse agaynst thee go and tell him his fault betvveene him and thee alone c. In the which place it is by the consent of all interpreters manifest that Christe prescribeth a rule of correcting priuate and secrete sinnes and not of suche as be open and knowne to others For he would not haue pryuate and secrete sinnes blased abroad publikely reprehended before the partie offending be in this order
Sozom. lib. 1. cap. 17 tom con to the Fathers of the Nicene Councell and to the Ecclesiasticall persons there gathered whiche he dothe also permitte the Byshops Elders and Deacons of Churches to do (*) A great ouersight eyther by correcting or adding or making newe if neede be And by the continuall practise of the Churche in the tyme of Christian Emperours whiche alwayes permitted vnto the ministers assembled in councels ▪ as well the determination of controuersies whiche rose as the making or the abolishing of needefull or hurtfull ceremonies as the ease requyred Also by the Emperours epistle in the first action of the councell of Constantinople where by the epistle of the Emperour it appeareth that it was the manner of the Emperours to confirme the ordināces which were made by the ministers and to see them kept Io. Whitgifte I learne in Eusebius Lib. 1. de vita Constan. that Constantinus is called as it were Euseb. lib. 1. de vita Const. Constantinus his rule in ecclesiasticall matters a generall Bishop appoynted of God that he also called Synodes and placed the moderator in them I learne in that seconde Booke that he made lawes and constitutions perteyning to holynesse towardes God and to the appoynting of meete thinges for the Churches of God that there shoulde be no Images worshipped none erected and set vp no enchauntmentes vsed or so thsayinges And I learne in that same Epistle Lib. 2. by you quoted that Constantinus prescribed to Eusebius what he shoulde do and what Epist. ad Eusel he should will others to do in buylding and repayring of Church ▪ s or enlarging of them neyther is there mention made of anyother Lawes or constitutions in that Epistle 〈◊〉 grosse ouersight of T. C. and surely I beleeue that those woordes whiche Constantinus speaketh to Eusebius of buylding or repayring or enlarging Churches buylded of stone you vnderstande of making restoring or enlarging of Ecclesiasticall orders and Lawes whiche if you do as your woordes playnely signifie then vnderstande you not the place abuse your Reader and caste away an argument For Constantinus woordes to Eusebius be thesc Howe hitherto by that wicked sentence and tyrannie persecuting Lib. 2. Eus. de vita Con lant Epist. ad Eus. the Ministers of our Sauiour the buyldinges of the Churches are decayed and weakened thorough negligence or soulde and made vyle for feare of imminent daunger I knowe and am fully perswaded but nowe libertie beyng restored and that Dragon thorough the prouidence of God and our ministerie banished from the gouernment of the common wealth I thinke Gods power is made manifest to all and that those whiche haue fallen into certayne sinnes eyther for feare or thorough vnbeleefe and nowe knowe the truthe Eusthius gouernour of me churches than one will returne agayne to the true and right waye of lyfe therefore admonishe all Churches whiche thou doest gouerne or any other Churches vnder the gouernment of other Bishops Priestes or Deacons that they be diligent aboute the buyldyng of theyr Churches and that they eyther repayre suche as stande still or enlarge them or if necessitie requyre buylde them newe and thou thy selfe or other for thee may requyre of the gouernours and Magistrates in the prouinces those thinges that be necessarie It is playne that Constantine in these woordes speaketh onely of materiall Churches and therefore you are greatly deceyued But if it were as you say do you not sée howe it maketh agaynst The place agaynst 〈◊〉 your selfe for what dothe more plainely appeare in that you saye he permitteth this vnto the Bishops c. than that the authoritie was in him and they were but his vicegerentes The continuall practise of Christian Churches in the tyme of Christian Magistrates Christian Princes haue exercised su authoritie in ecclesiastical cases Sozomenus lib. 1. cap. 17. before the vsurpation of the Bishop of Rome hath bene to giue to Christian Princes supreme authoritie in making Ecclesiasticall orders and lawes yea and that whiche is more in deciding of matters of religion euen in the chiefe and principall poyntes And that booke and chapter of Sozomene by you quoted declareth the same For the Bishops that came to the Councell of Nyce committed the hearing determining of theyr controuersies to the Emperour which argueth that it was then a common and vndoubted opinion receyued among them that the Emperour had authoritie to iudge in their causes and although the Emperour of modestie refused so to do saying that it was not meete for them so to vse themselues that they shoulde be iudged of other yet I am sure you will not make this a rule to exempt the Cleargie from the iurisdiction of the Ciuill Magistrate vnlesse you will take holde with the Pope and saie VVe muste iudge all and be iudged of none ▪ This modestie in Constantinus in refusing to heare the matters in controuersis among the Bishops excepted there is nothing in that firste booke and 17 ▪ chapter of Sozomene that can by any meanes serue your turne If you say that he woulde not determine any thing agaynst Arius heresie but A wise prince will take the aduise of the learned in discussing of weighty matters committed the same to the Synode and Councell of Nice I answere that therein be nothing at all abridged his authoritie ▪ but shewed his wisedome and godly care For it is the parte of a wise and godly Prince to haue such weightie matters of doctrine beyng in controuersie decreed and determined by suche as for their authoritie wisedome and learning are moste fitte to entreate of suche matters But alas how doth this argument follow Constantinus called the Councell of Nice to determine certayne matters of religion in controuersie therefore he had no authoritie to make Ecclesiasticall orders and lawes What Councell of Constantinople was that if you meane the. 5. beyng celebrated Iustinian made many Ecclesiasticall lawes Anno. 549. in the tyme of Iustinianus it is a very late testimonie for this cause the Bishops of Rome beyng then in great authoritie and yet manifest it is that no Emperour made mo Ecclesiasticall lawes bothe concerning matters of order and also of doctrine than did the Emperour Iustinianus as may be séene in the Code vnder these Titles De summa trinitate fide Catholica De sacrosanctis Ecclesijs de Episcopis Clericis de Haereticis Manichaeis Samaritanis ne sanctum Baptisma iteretur de statuis imaginibus and a number such like If you meane the sixth Councell of Constantinople as it lyke you do then are you without my compasse for that Councell was Anno. 681. and who will alleage Constantinus ▪ rogon ▪ gouerned the councell of Constantinople on 681. any authoritie of that corrupt tyme for any suche matter in controuersie and yet it is certayne that Constantinus the Emperoure did gouerne that Councell and that the Bishops on bothe sides did pleade before him at
1. COR. 8. 2. If any man thinke that he knoweth any thing he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to knowe ¶ THE DEFENSE of the Aunswere to the Admonition against the Replie of T. C. BY IOHN VVHITGIFT Doctor of Diuinitie In the beginning are added these 4. Tables 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the Replie 2 Of Falsifications and Untruthes 3 Of matters handled at large 4 A table generall If any man be contentious we haue no such custome neyther the Churches of God 1. Cor. 11. 16. †Printed at London by Henry Binneman for Humfrey Toye Anno. 1574. GAL. 5. 26. Let vs not be desirous of vaineglorie prouoking one another enuying one another ¶ To the godlie Reader IT VVERE BVT A NEEDLESSE labour to make any particular recitall of those pointes of doctrine vvhich this Church of Englande at this day doth holde and maintayne for they be at large set out in sundrie english bookes and especially in the Apologie of the Church of Englande and the Defense of the same summarily also collected together in the boke of Articles agreed vpon in the Conuocation at London Anno 1562. c. this I dare boldely affirme that all pointes of Religion necessarie to saluation and touching eyther the mysterie of our redemption in Chryst or the right vse of the Sacramentes and true manner of vvorshipping God are as purely and perfectely taught and by publike authoritie established in this Church of England at this day as euer they vvere in any church sithence the Apostles time or novv be in any reformed Church in the vvorld the vvhich to be true those that be learned euen among the myslikers of this present state can not nor vvill not denie Likevvise that all Heresies all corrupt doctrines all superstitious and papisticall opinions haue bene and be by the Prince and the Realme banished by the learned Byshops and Preachers in vvorde and in vvriting confuted vvho is so blinded vvith malice that he cannot see or so frovvard and vvilfull that he vvil not confesse VVhat shall vvethen think of those men that are so farre from acknovvledging this singular and vnspeakeable benefite proceeding from the mere mercie of God so farre from being thankfull for the same from desiring the continuance of it vvith heartie prayers that by all meanes possible they seek rather to obscure it and to deface it bicause in certaine accidentall poynts they haue not their fantasies and proper deuises If this be not to set themselues agaynst God and to trouble the peace of the Church for externall things vvhich is schismaticall let the quiet and godlie Christian iudge Hovve much better had it bene for them to haue proceeded in teaching necessarie pointes of doctrine and exhorting to obedience to concorde to godlie lyfe and conuersation than thus vvith no small reioycing of the vvicked great offence of the vveak Gospellers maruellous grief of the Queenes maiestie and other that haue the care of gouernment frovvardly to dysquiet and dysturb the Church trouble the happie peace of the cōmon vveale and hazard the vvhole state of Religion they shall one day if not to late vvell vnderstand Furthermore it behoueth all godlie mindes that vvill not be caried avvay vvith rash and ouerhastie iudgemēt in this cōtrouersie to cōsider not only that that I haue before spoken of the truth of doctrine publikely receyued and cōfirmed but also circumspectly to vveigh the circumstances of time place person and the vvhole state of things novve in this Church and Realme of Englande The regarde vvherof in mine opinion must needes cause in all discrete heades a staye of iudgement in comparison that the things themselues barely considered vvoulde do The state of this Church of Englande at this day God be thanked is not Heathenish Turkish or Papisticall in vvhich conditiō many things might be done that othervvise are not to be attempted but it is the state of a church reformed and by authoritie and consent settled not only in truth of doctrine as before is noted but also in order of thinges externall touching the gouernment of the Church and administration of the Sacramentes VVherefore the controuersie is not vvhether many of the thinges mentioned by the platformers vvere fitlie vsed in the Apostles time or may novv be vvell vsed in some places yea or be cōueniently vsed in sundrye reformed Churches at this day For none of these braunches are denyed neither do vve take vpon vs as vve are sclaundered either to blame or to condemne other Churches for such orders as they haue receiued most fit for their estats But this is the vvhole state of our controuersie vvhen vve of this Church in these perillous dayes do see that vve haue a greate number of hollovve hartes vvithin this Realme that daylie gape for alteratiō of Religiō and many mightie great enimies abroade busilie deuising and vvorking to bring the same to passe and to ouerthrovve the state both of religion and of the Realme vvhether seing vve haue a setled order in doctrine and gouernment receiued and confirmed by lavve it may stand vvith godlie and Christian vvisdome vvith disobedience to the Prince and lavve and vvith the vnquietnes of the Church and offence of many consciences to attempt so greate alteratiō as this platforme must needes bring and that for matters externall onlye and vvith such egernesse and bitternesse that they deface and discredite the vvhole state of this Church vvith al the Preachers and Ecclesiasticall gouernours of the same as remayning in horrible corruptions and Antichristian deformities and thereby fill the mouthes of the aduersaries vvith greater matter of obloquie to deface the gospell than euer of them selues they had bene able to deuise Surely I could neuer reade but that they that should so do vvere rather to be estemed troublesome and schismaticall defacers than zealous and godly reformers I knovve that no Church can be so perfect in all points of externall gouerment and ceremonies but that such as be disposed maye picke some occasion of quarrelling thereat thoughe vniustlie therefore the true members of the Church must not be to light of credit nor to redie to follovve contentious captaines For S. Paule sayeth Si quis sit contenfiosus inter vos c. If any be contentious among you we haue no such custome neyther the Churches of God c. Againe vvhen any thing is amisse it must be considered vvhether the faultes be in the thinges themselues or in the persons for vve may not vvith partiall and corrupt iudgement impute the faultes of the persons to the things vvhether they be offices or ceremonies for then should vve continuallie bee altering the state and neuer stand stedfast in any kynde of gouernment therefore in such cases vve must seke to reforme the abuses in men vve must not pull avvaye the states and offices or the thinges themselues bicause they be abused by some men But to let this passe and come to the purpose this Replie of T. C. vvhich is of some counted
to the practise of the Church and truth and notorious vntruthes affirmed by him of the Answere to the Admonition with sundrie other grosse ouersights because I haue noted them in the margent and plainly detected them in my Defense to this Replier and are for the most part noted also in the Generall Table vnder these 3. titles Falsifications of the Replier T. C. charged with vntruth T. C. chargeth the Answere falsely Men may erre and be deceiued but either to speake nothing truly or often to fault in vntrue dealing cannot be a token of the spirite of truth the which spirite of truth God for his Christes sake graunt vnto all those that haue a heartie desire to know the truth FINIS A TABLE OF THE PRINCIPALL titles and matters handeled at large in this Booke AN answere to the Epistle Dedicated by T. C. too the Church of Englād c. pag. 1 An Epistle of the Author too the Church of England 17 An exhortation to the Ciuil ecclesiasticall Magistrates 31 An aunswere to the Preface of the Admonition 57 Tractatus 1. VVhether Christ forbiddeth rule and superioritie vnto mi nisters 61 The true interpretation of the 20 of Mathew c. Reges gentium c. Cap. 1. 61 The exposition of the place Math. 23. Cap. 2. 71 Tract 2. Of the authoritie of the church in things indifferent 76 Som things may be tollerated in the Church touching order ceremonies discipline kind of gouern ment not expressed in the woord of God Chap. 1. 76 The opinion of the auncient fathers and councelles of thinges indifferent Chap. 2 95 The opinion of Saint Augustine of things indifferent Chap. 3 99 The opinion of M. Caluine of things indifferent Chap. 4. 109 The opinion of Bucer of things indifferent Chap. 5 113 The expositiō of the places of Deut. 4. 12. quoted by the Admonition Chap. 6. 116 The opinion of other late writers of thinges indifferent Chap. 7. 126 Tract 3. Of the election of Ministers 132 Of the triall of Ministers both in lear ning and conuersation Chap. 1. pag. 132 VVhether Idolatrous sacrificers and Massemongers maye afterwardes be Ministers of the Gospell Chap. 2. 143 Of Ministers learning Catechismes Chap ▪ 3. 152 Of the election of Ministers by the voices and consent of the people Chap. 4. 154 An examinatiō of the reasons which T. C. vseth to proue the perpetuall equitie c. of elections by the people Chap. 5. 170 The diuersitie betwixt the Apostles times oures requireth a diuers kind of gouernement and of ordering of Ministers Chap. 6. 174 That Bishops haue authoritie to admit and ordeine Ministers Chap. 7. 194 It is not necessary that the people should haue interest in the election of Ministers but the contrary is conuenient Chap. 8. 211 Tract 4. Of Ministers hauing no pastorall charge of ceremonies vsed in ordering Ministers of Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets 216 Of Ministers admitted a place being not voyd Chap. 1 216 Of ceremonies vsed in ordeining Mi nisters Chap. 2. 225 Of Apostles Euangelists and Prophets Chap. 3. 228 Tract 5. Of Residence of the pastor Chap. 1. 235 Of pluralities or hauing moe benefices than one Chap. 2. 246 Tract 6. Of Ministers that cānot preach and of licences to preach 251 Some may be Ministers that cannot preach Chap. 1. 251 Of licences to preach Chap. 2 254 Tract 7. Of apparell of Ministers 256 The causes vvhy they refuse the Apparell examined Chap. 1. 256 That Ministers vvere knovvne in times past by distinct apparell Chap. 2. 261 That the Magistrate may appoynt a distinct apparell for Ministers Chap. 3. 264 The distinction of apparell vvas appointed before the Popes tiranny Chap. 4. 268 That the apparel now vsed is not Po pishe or Antichristian And that things inuented by euil men may be vsed of Christians Chap. 5. 271 Diuers thinges concerning apparell in other places of the Aunsvvere chap. 6. 282 The faultes vvherevvith the Admonitors charge the apparell aunswered Chap. 7 283 Tract 8. Of Archbishops Metropolitās Bishops Archdeacons c. pag. 297 The reasons of T. C. ansvvered wher by he goeth about to take awaye the superfluous loppe as hee termeth it of the offices chap. 1. 297 That the names of Metropolitane Archbishop c. be not Antichristian chap. 2. 318 The offices of Archbishops c. are not straung or vnheard of in Chri stes church and of superioritie among the Clergie chap. 3. 353 The defense of the ansvvere of maister Iewell concerninge Archbishops c. against the vnreuerend Reply of T. C. chap. 4 422 The causes of Archbishops and of their prerogatiue and the estate of the old Bishops assigned by T. C. examined Chap. 5. 435 Other things concerning the offices and authoritie of our clergie of inequalitie of degrees amongst ministers c. dispersed in other places of the Answer chap. 6. 453 A briefe collection of such authorities as are vsed in this defense of the authoritie of Archbishops Bishops Chap 7. 470 A briefe comparison of the Bishops of our time and the Bishoppes of the primitiue Church Chap. 8. pag. 47 Tract 9. Of the communiō booke 474. The generall faultes examined wher vvith the publike seruice is charged by T. C. Chap. 1. 474 An examination of the particular faultes either in matter or forme whervvith the Booke of commō praier is charged Chap. 2. 487 Of Baptisme by women vvherwith the communion Booke is falsly charged Chap. 3. 503 Of ministring the sacraments in priuate places Chap. 4. 511 The sacraments ministred by other than Ministers Chap. 5. 515 Of priuate communion wherwith the Admonition chargeth the Booke of common prayer Chap. 6. 525. Of Churching of women 534 Tract 10. Of holydayes 538 Of holidayes in generall and that they maye bee appointed by the Church and of the vse of them Chap. 1. 538 Of Saints dayes Chap. 2. 543 Tract 11. VVhat kind of preachinge is most effectuall 555 Tract 12. Of preaching before the administration of the Sacraments 562. Tract 13. Of reading of the Scriptures 568. A comparison betvveene reading of Scriptures and preaching Chap. 1. page 568 That reading is preaching chap. 2. pag. 574 The profite of reading Scriptures in the Church chap. 3. 578 Tract 14. Of ministring and preachinge by Deacons 582 Tract 15. Of matters touching the communion 588 Of orders and ceremonies vsed in the celebration of the Communion chap. 1. 588 Of shutting men from the communion and compelling to communicate chap. 2. 603 Of playn and simple ministring and receyuing of the communion Chap. 3. 605 Tract 16. Of matters touching baptisme pag. 607 Of interrogatories ministred to infantes Chap. 1. 607 Of Godfathers and their promise Chap. 2 612 Of fontes and crossing in baptisme Chap. 3. pag. 614 Of the parties that are to bee baptised Chap. 4 619 Tract 17. Of the Seigniorie or gouernement by Seniors 626 VVhether there were such as the Ad monition calleth Seniors in euery Congregation chap. 1. 626 VVhether the gouernement by
determination of the church ought not lightly to be altered 89 ¶ Churching of women 534. c. The cause of the womans absence from the church after hir dehuerance 535 ¶ Circumstances necessarie are commaunded 512 ¶ Circumcision a sacrament 618 Circumcision in priuate houses 515 ¶ Cypriā chooseth without consent of the people 205 Cyprian of the office of an Archbishop 354. c. 367. c. Cyprian a Metropolitane 356. 438. 470. ¶ Ciuil offices in Ministers 749. c. Ciuill offices in our Ministers tend to the gouernment of the church pag. 75 Ciuill authoritie not claimed but committed to our Bishops 752 Some Ciuill offices rather helpes than hinderances to Bishops 753 Augustine iudgeth ciuill causes pag. 772. Ciuil iurisdiction that the Pope claimeth not like to that in vse in this church 759. 778 A greater ciuill iurisdiction sought for in disprouing the lesse 760 Ciuil iurisdictiō in vse in this church is in some respect ecclesiasticall pag. 766. 771 Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall offices met in one 767. 771. Ciuil offices in ministers not against the word of God 773. The practise of the Church for ciuil offices in ministers 773. Ciuill businesse incident to Byshops by the iudgemente of the holye Ghost 772. 774. ¶ Clement 319. c. Clements Epistle read in the church pag. 719. ¶ Collect vpon Trinitie Sunday 491 Collect of the 12. Sunday after Trinitie Sunday 491. ¶ Coemiteria 250. ¶ Commaundementes of diuerse kindes 103. All the commaundementes of God and of the Apostles are not nedefull for our saluation 103. ¶ Cōmunitie in the Apostles times pag. 162. ¶ Comelinesse externall is alterable 98. The iudgement of comelinesse resteth not in priuate men 87. ¶ Communion Booke 474. c. Communion in priuate places 5 4. 525. Communion ministred to the sicke pag. 527. c Of the number of Communicantes pag. 528. c. Basill would haue 12. at the least to communicate 530. Of compelling men to communicate 531. 532. 605. Men not meete to cōmunicate may be admitted to the hearing of the word and prayer 533. The Apostles began the communion wyth the Lordes prayer 588. 602. Matters touching the Communion pag. 588. c. Examination of Communicantes pag. 591. c. Two things worthie to be noted of Communicantes 592. Examination of communicants not disallowed 593. Communion bread 593. c. Alexander appoynted vnleauened breed 594. Bucers opinion of Communion bread 594. Caluines opinion of Communion bread 594. Christ vsed vnleauened bread 595. The kinde of bread indifferent 595. Communion at mariages 724. Of shutting mē from the Communion 603. Men persisting in wickednesse are not to be compelled to the communion 605. Halfe communion 737. The makers of the Communion booke praised 711. ¶ Companions of Paule chosen by consent and why 163. ¶ Comparisons vnequall 710. ¶ Conferēce a cause of better know ledge 176. Conference offered to the Replyer hath bene by him refused 354. 7. ¶ Confirmation 725. c 785. 786. Abuse of confirmation in the Popishe Church 786. Confirmation of old time like ours pag. 786. Confirmation at the length allowed 794. The ende of confirmation 794. ¶ Confusion follovveth the doctrin of the Admonitors 3. 559. 746. ¶ Conscientia mille testes 503. ¶ Consuls and their authoritie 396. ¶ Constantine made Ecclesiasticall lawes 698 ¶ Contention defended 34. 377. Contentiō a hinderance to the profession of diuinitie 141. VVho be contentious 13. 14. ¶ Contraries may be defined wyth one difference 124 Some delighte to be contrarie to tymes 283. Men of contrarie iudgement ioy ne against the truth 51. Howe contraries muste be cured by contraries 476. ¶ Conuenticles 41. ¶ Corruption 485 Corruption in the Churche in the Apostles time 349. ¶ Councels summoned by princes page 436 Varietie about the time of the coūcell of Nice 330. The meaning of the. 6. Can. of the councell of Nice Controuersie about the number of Canons of the councell of Nyce page 334. The seconde councell of Nyce alleaged by the Replyer 247. A corrupt councell of Vrbane alleaged by the Replyer 23. A corrupt councell of Hispall alleaged by the Replyer 442. ¶ Courtes of Byshops 679. c. Court of faculties 561. Ecclesiasticall courtes executed in the Princes name 680. ¶ Crossing in Baptisme 614. c. Difference betwixt the papists crossing and ours 616. Crossing no Sacrament 617. ¶ Curates allowed 245. ¶ Cursed things consecrated to god page 284. D. ¶ Damasus alleaged to a wrong pur pose 248. Damasus added Gloria patri 489. ¶ Dayes obseruing of dayes 546. 547. 549. 〈◊〉 kindes of obseruing of Dayes 546 ¶ Deacons chosen by consent and vvhy 164 Of ministring preaching by Deacons 582. c Philip a Deacon baptised 582. 515 Deacons helpe in the ministration pag. 585 The Deaconship a step vnto the ministery 587 Deacons baptised 588. c. More pertayneth too the office of a Deacon than prouision for the poore 687. c. Some parte of the Deacons office not necessary vnder a Christian Prince 689. 690 VVhether Deacons were in euerye congregation 689 VVhy the Apostles left the Deaconship 758 ¶ Deanes 347. 746 ¶ Decrees pertayning too order not onely humane 107 ¶ Degrees of honour in the ministerie 458 Degrees in Diuinitie condemned 780. 781. Degrees in the Vniuersitie condemned 782 To take away Degrees is barbarousnesse 420 To be deliuered from euill what it signifieth 498 ¶ Demetrius bishop of Alexandria and Egypt 470 ¶ Defyling the nature of thinges is not in mans power 285 How farre the precepte in Deuteromie is extended 117 ¶ Digressions frō the matter to the persons 24. 235. 351. 370. 512. ¶ Dic Ecclesiae interpreted 636. 663 ¶ Dionisius Areopagita Archbishop of Athens 470. 324 Dionysius Ariopagite vsed of maister Ievvell agaynst Harding 608 Dionysius Alexandr Bishop of Alexandria and Pentapolis 470 Dionysius Corinthius b 719 Dionysius Corinth his epistles read in the Church 719 Dionysius deuided parishes 249. 250. ¶ Dioscorus Archbishop 338. 471. ¶ Discipline necessarie 559 Matters concerning Discipline 660 VVherein Discipline consisteth 661 The execution of Discipline not gyuen equally to all 313 ¶ Distinction quoad ministerium quoad ordinem iustified 390 Disobedience in ciuill matters is disobedience to God 282 Dissention domesticall the fo erunner of Destruction 705 ¶ Doctors of law left out of the Admonition and way 783 ¶ Doctrine framed to mens persons pag. 148 All pointes of Doctrine pure in this Church 129 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 interpreted 461 ¶ Dominion hath diuerse significations 63 Some kind of temporall Dominion denied to ministers 64 A minister maye exercise temporall Dominion 64. 65 ¶ Donatists and their properties 50. 622. ¶ A doubtfull saying 255 ¶ Drun kardes in the visible church pag. 177 E ¶ Easter obserued of the Apostles pag. 〈◊〉 ¶ King Edwardes priestes left 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 ¶ Elections act 1. act 6. agree 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 Elections by the people not 〈◊〉 in the Apostles time 〈◊〉 Elections by the people not generall in
Sacramentes that cannot preache 4 Sacraments ministred in priuate pla ces 511. c. Doctrine tending to the derogation of Sacraments 524 Necessitie of saluation not tyed too Sacraments 52 5 4 The lyfe of Sacramentes dependeth not of preaching 566 Euery one muste applye the Sacrament to himself 601 The Sacramentes purely ministred pag. 606 Sacramentes receyue the name of things signified 608 VVhat is required to the making of a Sacrament 618 The proper signification of Sacraments 618 Outvvard Sacraments giue not grace pag. 73 Sacramentall signes 738 Euery thing signifying is not a Sacrament 291. 617. 618 ¶ Saintes dayes 543. c. VVhy the names of Saintes are gyuen to our lydayes 543 ¶ Saunders the Replier agree 695 ¶ Sceuola 708 Scarse the face of a church vvhat it implyeth 795 ¶ Scripture abused to coloure slate y pag. 10 Scripture alledged for the proofe of the phrase 22 The abusing of Scripture is too bee maintayned in none 22 Shiftes to coloure the vnapt allegation of Scripture 22 Scripturs vvrested and abused by the Admonition 58. 59. 61. 73. 128. 251. 261. 454. 460. 463. 655. 687. 752. Scripture wrested by T. C. 83. 84. 85. Scripture vnskilfully and fondly alleadged by T. C. 89. 90. 92. 172. 2 297. 374. 592. Canonicall Scripture onely perfect pag. 74 VVhat is said to be expressed in Scripture 77 VVherein the Scripture is sufficient pag. 7 VVhat things the scripture hath not expressed 83 Howe the Scripture conteyneth all things incident to the life of man pag. 84 ¶ Schismatikes 41 Schismarikes deserue to be sharpely reproued 778 Schismaticall meetings aptly called conuenticies 41 Schismaticall meetings not sufferable 41 ¶ Seniors and Seigniorie 626. c. The gouernment of Seniors ought to be perpetuall 633. c The office ascribed to Seniors depriueth the Magistrate of his authoritie 635. 643 The office of Seniors not commaun ded 637. 644 Difference betwixt necessitie of Pastors and of Seniors 644 Ieromes Seigniorie or Presbyterie pag. 652 Inconueniēces of the Seigniorie 657 c. VVhether Seniors were in euery con gregation 626. c. ¶ Sermons of the same nature with Hou ies 718 Seniors ▪ Looke Preachers ¶ A prescript forme of seruice 488. c. ¶ Shiftes of the Replier 293. 399. 418. 429. 462. 547. ¶ Sheapheard 220. 221. 237. 238. ¶ Things meere ciuil may haue signi fication 291 ¶ God vseth not the simple only 10 set sorth the truth 10 ¶ Similitudes weake arguments 220 ¶ A Sillogisme without al forme 316 ¶ Symcon Archbishop 341. 471 ¶ Singing used in all reformed churches 606 Singing of Psalmes by course 740. ¶ Singularitie and prope s therof pag. 14 ¶ Sitting at the cōmunion 597. c. ¶ If the Skie fal we may catch Larks pag. 465 ¶ Slaunderers are not the generation of Christ. 17 Slaunders 449. 558. 704. 739. 744. ¶ Socrates a fauorer of the Nouatians 350 Socrates doings agreable to our time pag. 350 ¶ Stephens oration a Sermon 584 Stephanus a good Bishop inuented the apparell 272 ¶ Subiects animated against authoritie 267 ¶ Of subscribing to the communion Booke 709. c. ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 304. 663 ¶ The office of the speaker or mode rator 393 ¶ A sparing restraint 490 ¶ Superioritie among the Apostles pag. 37 Superioritie conuenient among Ministers 388 Caluine alloweth Superioritie 390. 467. ¶ Superstition in garments condemned 277 ¶ The Sword that Christ sendeth is not betweene the faithfull 34 The sword of Discipline necessary pag. 56 ¶ Supremacie of the Queene secretly denied 801 T ¶ The feast of tabernacles obserued since losua 9 ¶ Tēples of Idols cōuerted to churches 274 ¶ T. C. ascribeth his own deuise to the Apostles 674 T. C. maketh greater accompt of the gonernment than of the Gospel pag. 7. 82 T. C. ioyneth with the papistes concerning the Princes authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters 7. 377. 694. c. T. C. alleageth Iosias for Ezechias 10 T. C. alleageth Gregorie for George pag. 447 T. C. charged with vntruth 8. 69. 70 74. 77. 99. 103. 15 158. 163. 166. 186 188. 205 207. 209. 226. 262. 280 332 337. 342 344. 345. 346. 347. 356. 366. 377. 383. 385. 412. 413. 415. 422. 435. 441. 443. 446. 451. 459. 462. 487. 501. 522. 545. 611. 618. 637. 651. 669. 673. 680. 682. 718. 731 8 6. T. C. peruerteth the wordes meaning of the Aunswere 17. 117. 130. T. C. chargeth the Aunswer falsely 24. 25. 28. 29. 30. 31. 35. 36. 89. 92 93. 111. 112. 130. 153. 164. 188. 196. 197 198. 200. 253. 321. 352. 366. 418. 461. 466. 487. 516. 585. 586. 593. 630. 631 651. 704. T. C. contrary to the Admonition 3 88. 530. 605. T. C. bringeth places against himselfe 160. 179. 184. 185. 186. 187. 378. 430 442. 542 697. 698. 759. T. C. reasoneth against himselfe 130 T. C. contrary to himselfe 46. 88. 138. 151. 173. 329. 372. 400. 430. 439. 458 502. 517. 533. 566. 604. 718. 740. 784 T. C. inconstant 614 T. C. desireth that which hee hath sought to hinder 16 The vaine excuses of T. C. why hee hath not set down the Answer the true causes thereof 16 The presumption of the Replier 622 T. C. altereth the state of the coutrouersie 44. 100. 768 T. C. setteth the Fathers by the eares without cause 102 T. C. iustifieth the Answere 120 T. C. accuseth learned men of contra rietie 114 T. C. tendeth to Iudaisme 120. 169. T. C. fetcheth cōmaundements out of the ceremoniall lawe 167. 592. T. C. depraueth learned men when he cannot answere them 146. 191. 369. 377. 402. 410. 415 526. 785. T. C. suppresseth the words against him 184 T. C. pusheth at the Ciuil Magistrate couertly 157. 650 T. C. bendeth his force against a Mo narchie 641 647 T. C. vseth only papistes reasons against the Princes supremacie 694 c. The Repliers arguments strike aswel at the Ciuill Magistrate as at the Ecclesiasticall 765 T. C. speaketh suspiciously of Gouernement 389 T. C. Tripped in that he chargeth others 193 T. C. pretending Scripture bringeth that whiche hath no warrant in scriprure 173. 425 T. C. vseth popish corrupt authorities 223. 247. 442 T. C. seeketh immunitie from lawes pag. 266 VVhy T. C. bēdeth his force against those in authoritie in the church pag. 299 T. C. addeth to the text 520 The Replyer had rather conforme himself to the Iewes than to this Church 730 T. C. forgetteth himself 733 T. C. must eyther dissent from Beza or graunt the controuersie 759 T. C. consesseth the grounde of the controuersies 768 T. C maketh Caluine contrary too himself but vntruly 785 T. C. requireth that of others that he persormeth not himselfe 799 The cause why T. C. ioineth against degrees in Diuinitie 78 T. C. preferreth his iudgemente too Councels 365 T. C. answered by his owne wordes 263. 306. 307. 309. 371. T. C. appealeth from auncient authoritie 547 The Doctrine of the Replier tendeth to Anabaptisme 566. 567. 622. 626. The Replyer neere to
ministers which caused it to bee celebrated when the people returned out of their captiuitie for it appeareth in the booke of Nehemias that the feast of Tabernacles which was commaunded of 8. Chap. the Lorde to be celebrated euery yeare was * This is a manifest vntruth as shall appeare not celebrated from the days of Iosua the sonne of Nun vntill the returne of the people from their captiuitie And yet were there in this space dysiers both iudges and kings both priests and Prophets singularly zealous and learned If therefore the omitting of so necessary a thing so many hundreth yeares by such godly zelous learned persons could not bring any prescription against the truth the lacke of this necessary discipline by the space of 30. yeares through the ouersight of a fewe if they be compared with that multitude ought not to be alleadged to keepe it out of the Church Io. Whitgifte Surely the inequalitie of the persons and great difference betwixt them both in godlynesse zeale learning experience and age though it séeme a small matter too some yet it ought to be well considered for it is well knowne that the firste sorte of men here mentioned did excell in all those forenamed qualities and haue continued in the same euen to the death and the latter sort many of them singular in learning zeale wisedome experience hauing also knowledge of other Churches refourmed more than you howsoeuer it pleaseth you and some of your companions vndutifully to contemne them wherefore as I saide this comparison is something and not so lightly to be estéemed as you would make the reader beléeue For my part I thinke the worse of you bycause you thinke so well of your selues that you dare be so bolde as not onely to compare your selues with them but to preferre your selues before them As for this Humilitie and abasing your selfe in saying that you cōfesse your selfe to be a great deale inferioure to the least of them He that will take paynes but to peruse your booke shall easly vnderstand that you thinke nothing lesse For truly your stile is so bigge and loftie and your tauntes such towards them and others that a man would thinke you not only to haue cast off all modestie but vtterly to haue forgotten all good manners ciuilitie and duetie But it is Rhetoricke common to you with other of your companions as appeareth in diuers places of the first Admonition and in the second throughout the whole which I would wish the reader to consider that he may thereby partly know and discerne your spirit But say you the omitting of these necessarie things ought to be no more preiudice agaynste them c. Surely if you can proue that they haue omitted any thing expressely against the commaundement of God then is it true that you say but if you cannot do so then do you vniustly charge these learned and godly martyrs But what if you haue abused the place in the. 8. Chapter of Nehemias What if you vnderstand it not truely The feast of Tabernacles was not so lōg omitted What if there can be no suche thing gathered of it as you woulde make the reader beléeue Shall I triumph ouer you and say that eyther you haue not read it or you do not vnderstand it or that you willingly and wittingly abuse it or that you receiued it in some notes from others as it pleaseth you to deale with me when no such occasion is offered vnto you I will not so requite you But this only I say that you haue not set downe the true sense of that place For the meaning is not that the feasts of Tabernacles was The true interpretation of the place alleadged out of the 8. of Nehemias not celebrated from the time of Iosua the sonne of Nun vnto that day which was almost a thousand yeares but that it was not celebrated in that manner that is with such solemnitie so great reioycing and gladnesse as the very wordes them selues declare both in the Hebrue text and in the best translations And so dothe Pellicane expounde that place who saith that these words since the time of Iosua the sonne of Nun. c. be spoken Pellican in 8. Nebe in the respect of the greatnesse of the ioy whiche then happened to the people Lyra also expoundeth the same place much after the same sort and presupposeth nothyng lesse than that the feasts were omitted all this time for he affirmeth that they were much more solemnly and with greater cost celebrated in the times of Dauid and Salomon Lyra in 8. Nebe therefore saith he the comparison is secundum quid proportionaliter for I vse hys words bycause in all this time sithence Iosua it is not read that the people were so generallie gathered togither in Hierusalem as we reade in the beginning of this Chapter that they were at this time and againe he saith that it was more for the people newly returned frō captiuitie to celebrate suche a feast with that solemnitie than it was to mightie kings and people being in prosperitie and setled in a kingdome to celebrate the same day with much more cost and solemnitie I might alledge other expositiors to the same effect neyther haue I read any that doth expound that place otherwise The like kind of speach we haue 2. Reg. 23. where it is said That there was no passouer 2. Reg. 23. holden like that which Iosias helde from the dayes of the Iudges that iudged Israell nor in all the days of the kings of Israell and the kings of Iuda whiche is only spoken in respect of the multitude and zeale of the people with the great preparation and not bycause the passouer was not all this time celebrated The like is also vsed 2. Chro. 2. Chro. 30. 26. 30. vers 26. euen so it is in this place for there is no doubt but that the feast of Tabernacles was celebrated both in Dauid and Salomons time and it is manifest that it was celebrated not long before this time as it is in plaine words expressed 1. Esdras 1. Esra cap. 3. vers 4. Ca. 3. vers 4. wherefore I might make much ado at this ouersight of yours or rather wilfull deprauing of the scriptures if I were delighted with that kind of confuting But though my learning be small and that I am ignoraunt both of Logicke and Philosophie and haue read so little in Diuinitie and you so mightie a man in the Scriptures and so profound in all kind of knowledge as you perswade your selfe to be yet you must be content here to be admonished of me that you haue abused this place and that it serueth not for your turne to proue those godly men which suffered martyrdome in Duéene Maries time to haue permitted any thing in this Churche of Englande after it was reformed expressely contrary to the commaundemente and word of God as you vntruly report So many good high priestes in the reygnes
the state as they do then truly haue they to consider of such disturbers of the peace of the Church and according to their office and duty prouide a conueniente remedy for them knowing that it is the extreame refuge of Satan when by other meanes he cannot then to séeke the ouerthrow of the Gospell thorow contention about externall things The Epist. of T. C. Sect. II. An other exception against the fauorers of this cause is taken for that they propounde it out of time which is that the Jewes said that the time was not yet come to builde the Lords house but it is knowne what the Prophet answered And if no time wer vnseasonable in that kind of material building wherin there be some times as of sommer more opportune and fit than others how can there be any vntimely building in this spiritual house where as long as it is called to day men are commanded to further this worke And as for those which say we come to late that this shoulde haue bin done in the beginning and can not now be done without the ouerthrow of all for mending of a peece they do little consider that S. Paule compareth that which is good in the buylding vnto golde and siluer and precious stones and that whiche is euill layde vpon the foundation vnto stubble and hey and woode Likewise therfore as the stubble the hey the wood be easily by the fyre consumed without any losse vnto the gold or siluer or precious stones so the corrupt thynges in this buylding may be easily taken away without any hurt or hinderaunce vnto that whiche is pure and sounde And if they put such confidence in this similitude as that they will therby without any testimonie of the worde of God stay the further buylding or correcting the faultes of the house of the Lorde which by his manifest commaundement ought to be done with all spede then besides that they be verie vncunning buylders which can not mende the faults without ouerthrowe of al especially when as the fault is not in the foundation they must remember that as the mean which is vsed to gather the children of God is called a building so it is called a planting And therfore as dead twigs riotous or superfluous branches or what soeuer hindereth the growth of the vine tree may be cut of without rooting vp the vine so the vnprofitable things of the Church may be taken away without any ouerthrow of those things which are wel established And seeing that Christ and Beliall can not agree it is strange that the pure doctrine of the one and the corruptions of the other should cleaue so fast together that pure doctrine can not be with hir safetie seuered from the corruptions when as they are rather lyke vnto that parte of Daniels image which was compounded of claye and iron and therfore coulde not cleaue or sticke one with an other Io. Whitgifte They did not only propound it out of time after the Parliament was ended but out of order also that is in the maner of a libell with false allegations and applications of the Scriptures opprobrious speaches and slaunders not to reforme but to deforme the Church and to confound al. The rest in this part is Petitio principij the petition of the principle for you take that as confessed true which will not be graunted vnto you as shall more at large hereafter appeare The Epistle of T. C. Sect. 12. It is further sayd that the setters forward of this cause are contentious and in mouing questions giue occasion to the Papistes of staundering the religion and to the weake of offence But if it be founde to be both true which is propounded and a thing necessarie about whiche we contende then hath this accusation no ground to stand en For peace is commended to vs with these conditions if it be possible if it lye in vs. Now it is not possible it lyeth not in vs to conceale the Rom. 1 ▪ Cor. 10. truth we can doe nothing against it but for it It is a prophane saying of a prophane man that an vniust peace is better than a iust warre It is a diuine saying of an heathen man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is good to contend for good things The Papistes haue no matter of reioycing seyng they haue greater sharper controuersies at home and seing this tendeth both to the further opening of theyr shame and thrustyng out of their remnants whych yet remayne among vs. The weake may not be offended consyderyng that euen in the Church of God and among those of the Churche there hathe bene as greate varieties of iudgementes as these are For what weightier controuersies can there be than whether wee shall ryse agayne or no These were offences but woe to the authors whether circumcision were necessarye to be obserued of those whych beleeued And yet the fyrste was amongest the Churche of the Corinthes the other was fyrst in Hierusalem and Antioche and after in the Churches of Galatia and yet they the Churches and that the true religion whyche was there professed Io. Whitgifte It is very true and sufficiently proued in that Answere to the Admonition that the authours thereof bée contentidus and giue occasion to the Papistes of staundering the religion professed and to the weake of offence For whosoeuer troubleth the peace of the Churche or deuide themselues from the Churche for externall thinges they be contentious but these men doe so therefore they be contentious the maior proposition is grounded vppon the woordes of Saincte Paule 1. Corinth 8. 9. and. 10. but especiallye vppon these woordes of the. 11. Chapter If anye bee contentious we haue no suche custome neyther the Churches of God Whereas he purposely speaketh of such as be contentious for externall matters wherevpon that is grounded that Bullinger saith That those be contentious which trouble and deuide the Bulling church for externall things And that also whiche Zuinglius in his book de baptismo speaking of contentious Anabaptistes writeth They goe about innouations of their owne priuate authoritie in those Churches where the Gospell is truly taught and that in externall Zuinglius de baptis things And in his Ecclesiastes he calleth them authours of contentions and troublers of the church which striue about externall matters And surely this is an euident token that Zuingl in ecclesiast the accusation is true bicause they and their companions for the mosre parte make contention wheresoeuer they come and especially in those places where the Gospell hath with most diligence bin taught as experiēce sufficiently proueth Furthermore the time and maner of publishing their pamphlets argueth y e same most euidently The truth and necessitie of those things for the which they contend rest as yet in triall Surely if they be matters necessarie to saluation then is there some iust cause of breking the peace of the Church for them but if they be matters of
greately suspected the slaunderous reportes of the backbiter and of the vnlearned tongue the one bicause he loueth to speake euill and heare euill of all those that be not in all pointes inclinable to his fansie whereof I haue greate experience being my selfe most vniustly sclaundered by that viperous kind of men the other bicause they be not able to iudge of controuersies according to learning and knowledge and therefore are ruled by affection and carried headlong with blind zeale into diuers sinister iudgements and erroneous opinions Lastly bycause I know sundry in all respects worthy men much more able to deale in such matters than I am But when I considered my duty towards God to his Church and to our most gracious Lady and soueraigne Elizabeth hir Maiestie by whose ministerie God hath giuen his Gospell free passage vnto vs the first stop and hindrance was answered For I thought that that dutie ought not to be omitted for any such cause seeing God and not man shall be my iudge and also that not he which defendeth the truth and confu eth errours but he that impugneth the truth and spreddeth sects is the authoure of contention Likewise when I remembred that it was no newe thing to haue contentions sects and schismes in the Church of Christ especially whē it enioyeth externall peace and that we had manifest examples there of from tyme to tyme fyrste in Peter and Paule ad Gal. 2. Paule and Barnabas Acto 15. then in the Churche of the Corinthians 1. Cor. 1. 3. Afterwardes betwixte the orientall Churche and occidentall Churche touching Easter and suche like matters Betwixte the Bishops of Aphrica and the Byshoppes of Italie for rebaptising of Heretikes and sundry tymes yea vsually in the externall peace of the Churche as may be more at large seene in Eusebius lib. 4. eccl histo cap. 6. libr. 5. cap. 24. 25. 26. li. 8. c. Likewise in Ruffinus lib. 1. ca. 1. In Zozom lib. 6. cap. 4. In Basilius Magnus ep 61. ad fratres episcopos in occidente ep 69. in sundry other auncient and learned histories and writers For the second point I was satisfyed For I thought that that coulde be no slaunder to thys Churche which by the malice of Sathan hath ben practised in all Churches euen since the ascention of Christe Thirdly when I perceiued that these men against whom I now write did agree with the aduersaries in defacing the state of Religion the order of Common prayers the Ministerie the Sacramentes the kinde of Gouernment c. vsed and allowed in this Realme of Englande and that in as opprobrious and spitefull maner as the aduersaries doo lykewise that they seeke to ouerthrowe the selfe same pillers of this Church with the aduersaries although not by the selfe same meanes I thoughte that the confutation and ouerthrowe of the one should be the confutation and ouerthrow of the other and therfore the aduersaries to haue small cause in deede of reioycing Agaynst backbyters slaunderers and vnlearned toungs I shall by Gods grace arme my self with pacience for their talke is no sufficient cause for a man to abstaine from doing his dutie To conclude I although the vnworthyest and vnmeetest of a great number was bold to take vpon me this enterprise partely to shewe that the booke called the Admonition is not such but that it may easily be answered and especially to satisfie myne owne conseience for I considered that if no man had taken vpon him the enuie of the cōmon sort in with standing the enterprises and proceedings of the Anabaptistes when they began in Germanie Anabaptisme had ouerrunne those Churches and vtterly destroyed them These were the reasons that satisfied the former obiections and especially moued me to take vpon me this labour wherwith if I can also satisfie others I haue my desire if not yet haue I done my duetie and satisfied myne owne conscience And forasmuche as the matter toucheth the state of the whole Churche of Englande I thought it moste meete to dedicate this my booke rather vnto the same generally than to any one particular member thereof protesting that if I haue affirmed any thing therein that by learnyng good reasons may be proued erroneous I will reforme the same for I wholly submitte it to the rule of Gods worde and the iudgement of those that be learned discrete and wyse The Lorde blesse thee O deare spouse of Christe with the continuance of his Gospell of the Queenes Maiestie and of godlie peace and quietnesse Amen An answere to the whole Epistle to the Church T. C. WHat causes either pulled you forwarde or thruste you backwarde to write or not to write and how in this dispute with your selfe in the end you were resolued to write in this sorte I leaue it vnto the iudgement of the Lorde who only knoweth the secrets of the hart and wil in his good time vnseale them But if there be any place of coniecture the hatred of cōtention which you set downe as the first and principal cause that beate you backe from writing might wel haue bin put as the last and least or rather none at all For if peace had bin so precious vnto you as you pretend you woulde not haue brought so many hard wordes bitter reproches e mylike speaches as it were sticks and coales to double and treble the heate of contention If the sharpnesse of the Admonition misliked you and you thinke that they outreached in some vehemencie of words how could you more effectually haue confuted that than to haue in a quiet and I de spirit set them in the way which in your opinion had left it Now in words condemning it and approuing it in your deedes I will not say that you do not so muche mislike this sharpnesse as you are A charitable figure sory that you are preuented and are not the first in it But this I may well say vnto you whiche he said Quid verba audiam cum facta videam what should I heare words whē I see the dedes In the fourthe reason whereby you were discouraged to write if by backbiters and vnlearned tonges viperous kind of men not able to iudge of controuersies caried away with affections and blind zeale into diuers sinister iudgements and erroneous ▪ opinions you meane al those that thinke not as you do in these matters I answer for my selfe and for as many as I knowe of them that they are they which first desire so it be truly to heare and speake all good of you But if that bee not through your perseuerance in the maintenance of the corruptions of this Church which you should help to purge then the same are they that desire that both the euill whiche you haue done and that which you haue yet in your hart to do may be knowne to the lesse discredite of the truthe and sinceritie which you with such might and maine do striue against Touching our (a) A manifest
men also as of Zuinglius Gastius and others Io. Whitgifte The. 14. Article Pa 4. Sect. 4. They bragged that they would defend their cause not only with Fol. 11. words but with the shedding of their bloud also T. C. Pa. 5. Sect. vlt. We feare no shedding of bloud in hir maiesties dayes for mainteining that which we hope we shall be able to proue out of the word of God and wherein we agree with the best reformed churches but certaine of the thinges whiche we stand vpon are such as that if euery heare of our head were a life we ought to aford them for the defense of them We brag not of any the least abilitie of suffering but in the feare of God we hope of the assistance of God his holy spirit to abide whatsoeuer hee shall thinke good to trie vs with either for profession of this or any other hys truthe whatsoeuer Io. Whitgifte Thanks be vnto God there is no cause why you should feare But wherefore do you then beate any such suspition into the peoples heads or why do you beast of that that you know is nothing néere you and whiche no man once goeth about to offer vnto you what meane you in the. 59. page of the second Admonition to say that there is a persecution of poore Christians and the professours of the Gospell suffered not farre vnlike Second Admoni Fol. 59 to the sixe articles which crafty heads deuised and brought the king hir noble father vnto as they would do hir maiestie now Can any thing be spoken more vntruly more suspiciously nay I may rightly say more seditiously If there be such things in controuersie betwixt vs that require defense euen vnto The state of the cōtētiō altered by T. C. death yea and that if euery heare of our head wer a life we ought to afoord them for the defense of the same then truly is there greater matters in hand than euery body doth consider of Hitherto it hath bin the common opinion that our contention was but about trifles about externall things such as might admit alteration and were not of the substance of religion but if this be true that you here set downe belike a great sort haue bin hitherto deceiued Truly if the matters be of such weight that they require defense of life you are much to blame that haue not hitherto made them better knowen I trust we shall in this booke vnderstand what they are In the meane time the stout bragges that are vsed by some might well be spared but we haue oftentimes séene greate cloudes and small rayne and heard great crackes of thunder and thanks be vnto God small harme done Neither are you more to be credited for these boastings than were the Anabaptists for vsing the like Io. Whitgifte ▪ The. 15. Article Page 4. Sect. 5. Their whole intent was to make a separation and a schisme and Fol. 17. 77. to withdraw men from their ordinary Churches and pastours and therfore most odiously they inueied against such pastours and sought by all meanes to discredite them T. C. Page ▪ 6. Sect. 1. We make no separation from the Church we go about to separate al those things that offend in the Church to the end that we being al knit to the sincere truth of the Gospel might afterwards in the same bond of truth be more neerely and closely ioyned togither We endeuour that euery Church hauing a lawfull pastoure whiche is able to instruct all mighte be ranged to their proper Churches whereas diuerse vnlesse they go to other than their owne parishes are like to heare few sermons in the yeare so farre are we from withdrawing men from their ordinarie churches and pastours Let him that inueyeth against any pastoure without good cause beare the punishment as for inueying againste heaping of liuing vpon liuing and ioyning steeple to steeple and non residence and such ambition and tyrannie as beareth the sway in diuers ecclesiasticall persons if the price of the pacification be the offending of the Lorde it is better you be displeased than God bee offended Io. Whitgifte Whether you make a separation or no and a schisme in the Churche let all men iudge and whether you draw the people from their ordinarie pastours or no let the secrete conuenticles for I can call them no better vsed not only in the citie but in other places of the countrey also testify whether iustly and as it becommeth you you enuey against such pastours and preachers as mislike your opinion and séeke their discredite let the bitter inuectiues in sermons before the people when none of them is present the common table talke bothe your Admonitions the firste and the second yea and this your passing modeste booke declare Truly this article and euery content in it was neuer more truly verefyed of the Anabaptists than it is and may be of you What you haue to say against the ambition and tyrannie of any such as you especially shoote at we shall sée in your particulars I trust you will speake al you know and more to else you do degenerate Io. Whitgifte The. 16. Article Page 4. Sect. 6. There was no staye in them but daily they inuented new opinions Fol. 18. and did runne from errour to errour T. C. Page 6. Sect. 2. We stay ourselues within the bonds of the word of God we professe our selues to be of the number of those which should * grow in knowledge as we do in age and which labor that the Image Eph. 4. v. 13 Col. 3. v. 10. of God may be dayly renued in vs not only in holynesse of life but also in * knowledge of the truth of God and yet I know no question moued which hath not bin many yeares before in other churches reformed holden as truth and therefore practised and in our Church also haue bin some yeares debated Io Whitgifte Thus muche might they alleadge for themselues also and applie those textes of scripture to as good purpose as you do For that place of the fourth to the Ephe. doth 4. Eph. teach that God hath therefore appointed his ministerie in the Church that it mighte be a meanes to bring vs to a perfect knowledge of Christ. The meaning is not that we should be daily altering our iudgement and broching new opinions for against such vnconstancie the same Apostle speaketh in the. 14. verse of the same Chapter 4. Eph. ver 14. True it is that we must dayly grow in faith and loue to the full perfection whereof we cannot attaine in this life but it doth not therefore follow that we like children must be carried about with euery wind of doctrine and neuer remaine constant in one religion To the same end are the words of the Apostle in the. 3. to the Colloss to be referred I beléeue it will fall out that in this your replie there will be found sundry articles neyther allowed nor practised in any Church reformed nor
these opprobrious termes Proude generation tyrannous Lordships vngracious cruell Popelike wicked raygne proude enimies c. applied to brethren proceede not from the humble and mylde spirite of God but from the proude and arrogante spirite of Sathan Therefore by this vnseemely Preface it may appeare from what spirite the rest of this Admonition springeth Touching the crueltie and rigour Pretended persecution these men complayne of I shall neede to speake little beeing manyfest to all that be not with sinister affection blynded that lacke of seueritie is the principall cause of their licentious libertie But who seeth not their hypocrisie whiche woulde make the worlde beleeue that they are persecuted when they be wyth too muche lenitie punished for their vntollerable contempte of good lawes and other disordered dealings Nay suche is their peruersnesse or rather arrogancie that if they be debarred but from the least parte of their wyll and desire by and by they crie oute of crueltie and persecution it is to bee doubted what these men wyll doe when persecution commeth in deede whiche nowe make so muche of a little or rather of nothing As for this great bragge Stout brags For howe soeuer learned and many they seeme to be they shoulde and maye in this Realme finde owe to matche them and shame them too if they holde on as they haue begonne Satis arroganter dictum est and verifieth that to bee true that is commonly spoken of these kinde of men that is that they contemne all other in comparison of them selues that they thinke them selues onely zealous onely learned c. But it is possible that they maye be matched and I knowe no man of learning afrayde to encounter wyth them either by worde or wryting Touching the ministerie and gouernmente of the Churche what faultes there is to be therein founde we shall vnderstande when we come to their reasons God graunt vs humble and meeke spirites that godly vnitie may be maynteined in the Churche One thing I muste desire thee to note gentle Reader wherein the folly of these men maruellously appeareth howe they haue paynted the margent of their booke with quoting of Scriptures as though al were scripture they write when as in deed they abuse the scripture and thee For what one place of scripture is in all thys Preface alleaged to any purpose and yet how many is there quoted To proue that we must reade these two treatises without partialitie or blinde affection heere is noted in the margent 1. Thes. 5. Scriptures abused in the Admonition verse 21. Iam. 1. Iam. 2. The place to the Thessaloniās is this Trie all thinges and keepe that vvhiche is good The place of of the firste of Iames is this VVherfore my deare brethren let euery man be svvifte to heare slovve to speake and slovve to vvrathe And the seconde place of Iames is this My brethren haue not the faythe of our Lorde Iesus Christe in respecte of persons And to what purpose are these places alleaged what proue they or what neede is there to alleage them These Apostles in these places speake not of rayling Libels but of Scriptures wrested hearing the worde of God and iudging of matters of faythe according to the truthe and not to the persons To proue that tyrannous lordship can not stande with Christes kingdome they alleage the. 15 of Matth. and Luke 16. The place in the. 15. of Math. verse 23. is this But he ansvvered hir not a vvorde then came to him his Disciples and besought hym saying sende hir avvay for she cryeth after vs. In the sixeteenth of Luke it is thus Then he sayde vnto them ye are they vvhiche iustifie your selues before men but God knovveth your heartes for that vvhiche is highly esteemed among men is abhomination in the sighte of God I would gladly knowe howe their assertion and these two textes hang togither I allowe not tyrannous lordeship to stande with Chrystes kingdome But it may well inoughe for any thing in these two places to the contrarie Tyrannous lordship is not esteemed among men but hated ¶ The Replie vnto the answere of the Preface T. C. Pag. 9. Sect. 2. IT maye be sayde vnto you that whiche Aristotle sayde of a certayne Philosopher that he knew not his owne voyce For if that you had remēbred that which you do so often promise that you will not answere wordes but matter the Printer shoulde not haue gayned so muche men should not haue bestowed so muche money of a thing not of so greate value nor that whiche is more the worlde shoulde not bee burdened with vnprofitable writinges For howe often runninges out haue you to drawe the authors of the Admonition into hatred by inueyghing bitterly agaynst their vnlearnednesse maliciousnesse c. as it pleaseth you to terme it so that if there were any excesse of speeche in them you haue payde it agayne with measure pressed downe and running ouer Howe often charge you them with pride and arrogancie men that confesse once or twice of them selues their wante of skill and whiche professe nothing of them selues but onely a bare and naked knowledge of the truthe whiche maye be done with modestie euen of them which haue no learning And yet those that know them know that they are neither voyde of the knowledge of the tongues nor of the liberall Artes albeit they doe not make so many wordes of Pro. 11. v. 9 it as you Salomon saythe that he that is despised and hathe but one seruaunte is better than he whiche magnifieth and setteth out him selfe and yet wanteth bread whereby he meaneth that the man that hathe but a little and carieth his countenance accordingly is muche more to be esteeined than he whiche beareth a greate porte and hathe not to supporte it These brethren haue not vndertaken the knowledge of Logike Philosophie and other schoole learning whereof notwithstanding they are not destitute you in so often reproching them with the ignorance of them woulde make vs beleeue that you are so notable a Logician and Philosopher as if Logike and Philosophie had beene borne with you and shoulde dye with you when as it may appeare partely by that whiche hathe beene spoken and partely by those thinges that will fall out heereafter that you are better acquaynted with the names of Logike and Philosophie than with any sounde or substantiall knowledge of them But let that be the Uniuersities iudgement where you haue beene brought vp and are best knowne To returne to your vnprofitable excursions howe often times in your booke doe you pull at the Magistrates sworde and what sworde you woulde haue I leaue to the consideration of all men seeing you are not satisfied with their imprisonment wherevpon also dothe eusue the expense of that whiche they haue What matter is in all these that bringeth any helpe to the decision of these causes that are in question betweene vs howe many leaues haue you wasted in confuting of the quotations whiche
to be holden for a lavve Whereby it is manifest that those things maye be retained in the Churche whych are not expressed in the Scripture In the same Epistle he reporteth the aunswere that Ambrose made vnto hym beyng demaunded whether it were lawfull to faste on the Sabboth daye or not to faste seyng that among the Churches there was some diuersitie in thys poyut Quando bic sum sayth he non ie uno Idem Sabbato quando Romae sum ieiuno Sabbato ad quamcunque ecclesiam veneritis eius morem seruate si pati scandalum non vultis aut facere VVhen I am here I faste not on the Sabboth vvhen I am at Rome I doe faste on the Sabboth and to what Churche so euer you come keepe the custome thereof if you vvill neyther suffer offence nor gyue offence The whole Epistle is worthy of reading T. C. Page 17. Sect. 3. 4. 5. 6. The Answerer goeth aboute to proue that they came yet out of good earthe and from good men whych if he had obtayned yet he maye well knowe that it is no good argumente to proue that they are good For (*) A true sayings but not truely applyed as the beste earthe bryngeth forth weedes so doe the beste men bring forthlyes and errours But let vs heare what is brought that if this visarde and shewe of truth be taken awaye all men may perceiue howe good occasion we haue to complaine and howe iust cause there is of reformation In the fyrst place of Saynt Augustine there is nothing against any thing which we holde for that that the Churche may haue things not expressed in the scripture is not (a) But it is against that that nothing should be placed in the Churche whyche God in his word hath not commaunded and therefore you do here but shifte of the controuersie against that it ought to haue nothing but that may be warranted by the scripture For they may be according to the scripture and by the Scripture which are not by plaine ter es expressed in the Scripture But agaynst you it ▪ maketh much and ouerturneth all your buylding in this booke For if in those things which are not expressed in the Scripture they are to be obserued of the Churche which are the customes of the people of God and the decrees of oure forefathers then how can these things be varyed according to time place and persons which you saye should be when as that is to be retayned which the people of God hath vsed and the decrees of the forefathers haue ordayned And then also howe can we doe safelyer than to followe the Apostles customes and the Churches in theyr tyme whych we are sure are oure forefathers and the people of God Besides that how can we retaine the customes and constitutions of the Papists in such things which were neither the people of God nor our forefathers I will not enter nowe to discusse whether it were well done to fast in all places according to the custome of the place You (b) Vntruth proceeding of Ignorance oppose Ambrose and Augustine I coulde oppose Ignatius Tertullian Tertul. de cor milit Ignat. ad phi epist. 5. whereof the one sayth it is nefas a detestable thing to fast vpon the Lordes day the other that it is to kill the Lord and this is the inconuenience that commeth of suche vnlearned kinde of reasoning S. Ambrose saith so and therefore it is true And although Ambrose Augustine being straungers and priuate men at Rome would haue so done yet it followeth not that if they hadde bene Citizens ministers there that they would haue done it if they had done so to yet it followeth not but y e they wold haue spokē against that appoinment of dayes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of fasting wherof Eusebius saith that Montanus was the first author I speake of y e which they ought to haue done for otherwise I know they both thought corruptly of fasting when as the one sayth it was remedie or rewarde to fast other dayes but in Lent August d temp ser. 62 Amb. 10. li ▪ epist ▪ not to faste was synne And the other asketh what saluation we can obtayne if we blot not our synnes by fastyng seyng that the Scripture sayth that fastyng and almes doth delyuer from sinne and therefore calleth them new teachers that shut out the merite of fasting which I therefore recyte bicause you would seeme by Augustine and Ambrose iudgements to alowe of the wekely and commaunded fastes Io. Whitgifte I haue sufficiently proued that the Scripture hathe not expressed all things that may be vsed in the Church touching ceremonies order and such matters for that is the question we haue nowe in handling and for further proofe and confirmation of the same I doe not disdaine the authoritie of any man especially of Augustine a man Augustine deliuered from vntrue surmises for his excellent learning and sound iudgement in most poynts of Religion estéemed of all that haue any shewe of learnyng or sparkle of modestie his opinicn of the sufficiencie of the Scripture in matters of saluation of the authoritie of it in iudgeing matters of controuersie is perfecte and sounde as may be séene Lib. 2. aduersus Cresco gramma Lib. contra Maximi Lib. de vnitate ecclesiae Lib. 2 de doct Christ ▪ Chap. 16. 20. Euang. Iohannis Epist. 112. and in a number of places else he speaketh also of Ceremonyes and traditions as moderately as diuinely and as warely as any man dothe as it appeareth euidently in these places that I haue in my answere alleaged And therfore he is not wyth suche contempte to be reiected nor yet defaced wyth vntrue surmises That which commeth from so good and learned a man is the rather to be beléeued so long as it is not repugnant to the worde of God And althoughe the best earth bringeth forth some weedes yet the good fruite muste not for the wéedes sake be refused This is a very meane reason good men sometimes erre and be deceiued therefore they must neuer in any thing be beléeued But to come to the purpose you say that this fyrst place of Saint Augustine is nothing agaynst any thing that you holde c. Surely and it maketh wholly for that which I holde for it proueth directly that there be some things wherein the Scripture hath not determyned any certaintie but lefte them to the disposition of others for he sayth In bis rebus de quibus nibil certi statu scriptura diuina ▪ c. and that these things be not suche as be repugnant or against the worde of God but accordyng to the rule of Saint Paule 1. Cor. 14. if you were not of purpose disposed agaynst your owne conscience and knowledge to abuse the reader you myghte easily vnderstande by my expressed words vttered in this portion of my answere and in all other places where I haue occasion to speake of the
our saluation then must we be bounde vpon necessitie of saluation to obserue the whole Ceremoniall law which was the commaundement of God What was the commaundement vnto Abraham to offer his sonne Isahac Genes 22. vnto the Israelites to robbe the Egyptians vnto Moses to put off his shoes vnto Exod. 11. Saule to kill Amalech and infinite other needefull for our saluation is the commaundement Exod. 3. of the Apostles to abstayne from bloud and that whiche is strangled or of 1 Sam. 15. Paule vnto Timothie to drinke wine c. needefull for our saluation What a torment Act. 15. is this doctrine able to bring vnto a weake conscience whiche hathe not obserued 1. Tim. 5. any one of these You muste therefore vnderstande that there are diuers kindes of commaundementes of God and of the Apostles some generall and giuen to all other Diuerskinds of commaundements personall and pertayne onely to one singular person or to one nation and kinde of people c. Agayn there are some which are perpetual not to be omitted or altered other which are temporall and may be omitted or altered as the circūstance of time place persons doth require Wherby it may appeare howe grossely you haue erred in affirming that all the commaundements of God and of the Apostles are needefull for oure saluation I might in more ample maner prosecute this matter but this that hathe bin spoken may suffice What I haue sayde of chaunging the Lordes day and howe you haue satisfied my wordes is declared before and so is the answere made likewise vnto this your féeble conclusion grounded vpon a falie principle Which of vs two is caried furthest by his affections let the indifferēt reader iudge by these and suche other like dealings of yours I haue tolde you before howe muche this and the other places of S. Augustine maketh for my purpose whiche you can not but vnderstande if you soughte not corners to creepe into for the auoyding of suche reasons and authorities as be moste apte for my purpose Things whiche the Apostles haue done for vs to followe without any exception may not be violated but the question is whether these things whiche they haue done and written be sufficient for the ordering and gouernment of all Churches in all times and states or no. And whether in all things that they haue done we may or oughte to follow them both which you haue hitherto very slenderly touched Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 24. Sect. 1. 2. 3. Pag. 25. Sect. 1. And agayne Quod neque contra fidem neque contra bonos more 's iniungitur indifferenter est habendum pro eorum inter quos viuitur societate seruandum est That vvhich is enioyned being neither agaynst fayth nor good maners is to be counted indifferent and to be obserued as the societie of those vvith vvhome vve lyne requiteth In the same Epistle answering this question whether vpon the Thursday before Easter the Lordes supper shoulde be celebrated in the morning or at nighte because Christe dyd institute this Sacrament and deliuer the same to hys Disciples after supper he gyueth these three rules worthy to be noted the first is this If the holy Scripture prescribe any thing to be done there is no doubte but that muste be obserued as it is there prescribed The seconde is this That if any thing be vniuersally obserued of the vvhole Churche not repugnant to the Scriptures for so he meaneth not to keepe that or to reason of that is madnesse The thirde If it be not vniuersally obserued but diuersly in diuers Churches Faciat quisque quod in ea ecclesia in quā venit inuenerit Let euery man do as he findeth in that Churche into the vvhiche he commeth modònon sit contra fidem aut contra mores So that it be not agaynst faythe or good maners for so he addeth In the same Epistle agayne he sayth that the Lorde hath not in Scripture declared in what order and maner his Supper shoulde be celebrated but lefte that to his Disciples And in his hundreth and nintenth ad Ianuar. In those things sayth he that be diuersly obserued in diuers places this rule as moste profitable is to be kepte that those things vvhich be not agaynst faythe neither good maners and make something to exhorte vnto a better life vvheresoeuer they are instituted vve ought not onely not to disallovve them but to prayse them and to follovv them By all these places of this learned father it is euident that it hathe beene receyued from time to time as a certayne truthe that the Church of Christ hath authoritie to ordayne and constitute as shall be necessarie in those things before of me rehearsed For a further proofe heereof I coulde alleage that auncient and learned father Iustinus Martyr in his seconde Apologie pro Iustinus Martyr Christianis and in his booke of questions Tertullian in his booke Decorona militis Basill also in his 63. Epistle writtē to the ministers of Neocaesaria Tertul. Eusebius Lib. 5. Ecclesiasti histor Cap. 25. 26. and diuers other but I omit Basil. them for breuitie sake neither doe I alleage those learned fathers Euseb. because I thinke their authoritie any thing at all preuayleth with the authors of the Libell but for the wyse discrete humble and learned whose humilitie and wysdome wyll not suffer them to despise the iudgements of so learned and godly fathers T. C. Pag. 18. Sect. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. Pag. 19. Sect. 1. As for that rule that he giueth when he say the what so euer is not c. and for the last of the three rules I receyue them with his owne interpretation whiche he hathe afterwarde in 119. Epist. ad Ianuarium whiche is that it be also profitable And as for those three rules which you say are worthy to be noted I can see nothing that they helpe your cause one whitte for I knowe no man that euer denied but that the Church may in suche thinges as are not specified and precisely determined make orders so they be grounded of those generall rules which I haue before alleaged out of S. Paule And as for the seconde of the three rules I can not at any hande allowe it for when all Christianitie was ouerrunne with poperie thinges were vniuersally obserued whiche to keepe were meere wickednesse and this strengtheneth the Papistes vniuersalitie Concerning your Glose if it be not repugnant to the scripture besides that it is not inough because it muste be grounded by the Scripture and that it is wicked to giue suche authoritie to any decree of men that a man shoulde not enquire of it or reason of it I haue shewed that he mente nothing lesse For affirming that suche thinges are the Apostles commaundementes his meaning was that they shoulde be without all exception receyued and absolutely 〈◊〉 muche better is it that wee take heede to
of men But why doe they condemne whole Churches for indifferent things whiche if they woulde obey S. Paule ought to apply them selues to the weakenesse of euery one Beza in an Epistle of his prefixed before the confession of the Churches in Heluetia Beza sayth That all rytes and ceremonyes are not to be receiued without exception which the Apostolike Church it selfe hath vsed eyther as profitable or necessarie for their tymes and in his booke called confessio Christ. fidei cap. 5. he writeth That one cause of Councels and Idem Synodes was to make rules of ecclesiasticall discipline and to appoint the gouernment of the Church according to the diuersitie of time place and persons For it is necessarie that in the house of the Lorde all things shoulde be done in order of the vvhich order there is one generall reason in the vvorde of God 1. Cor. 14. But not one and the same forme agreeing to all circumstances And againe in the same Chapter he sayth The rules or canons of rytes and Idem orders in the Church haue respect to comelynesse in externall things and therefore they be neither generall for the most parte nor perpetuall for that which is profitable in some place in other some places would rather hurt and moreouer the diuerse respectes of the time are such that the same thing which for good considerations was ordained must of necessitie sometime be abrogated whereof it comes to passe that there is not onely so great varietie in the olde canons but contrarietie also Againe in the same Chapter VVe must Idem not alwayes looke what the Apostles did in politia ecclesiastica in the gouernmente of the Church seyng there be most diuerse circumstances and therfore absque 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without ☜ preposterous zeale all things can not in all places and times be reduced to one and the same forme c. In the confessiō of the Churches in Heluetia c. it is thus written Men shall easily Confess ecclesiarum Heluet. gather this also that we doe not by any wicked schisme seuer or cut off oure selues from Christes holy Churches of Germanie Fraunce England and other Christian nations but that we well agree with all and euery one of them in the truth of Christe which here we haue acknowledged For albeit there is some varietie in diuerse Churches aboute the vttering and setting forth of their doctrine and aboute rytes and ceremonyes which they receiue as a meane to edifie their Churches yet that varietie neuer semed to minister cause of dissention and schisme in the Church for in such matters the Churches of Christ haue alvvayes vsed their libertie as we may reade in the Ecclesiasticall history I omit here the confession of the Church of VVirtenberge and the testimonyes of sundry other notable learned men I knowe no learned writer that doth denye the Church to haue authoritie in appoynting rytes ceremonyes discipline and kinde of gouernment according to the place time persons and other circumstances thoughe the same be not expressed in the word of God so that it doe nothing repugnante to the same But what néede I labour so much in a matter confessed by him that would séeme to ouerthrowe it for if the Iewes had twentie things left to their order in the Churche for our Pag. 21. Sect. one as T. C. hath affirmed and yet this commaundement not broken Deu. 4. 12. Nihil addes verbo c then may the Church of Christ vse hir libertie in like maner wythout any breache of the same Wherefore to conclude I nowe referre it to the iudgement of the Reader whether if be true or not that I haue affyrmed against the Authors of the Admonition to wit that those things onely are not to be brought in or vsed in the Church which the Lord himselfe in his word hath commaunded but that of necessitie in externall things and outward gouernment the Churche hath authoritie to determine according to time place person c. though the same be not commaunded or expressed in Scripture so that it be not repugnant to the word Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 32. Sect. 1. 2. Pag. 33. Sect. 1. The other places noted in this margent as Psal. 37. Rom. 12. 1. Cor. Scriptures vnchristianly abused by the Admonition 2. and the rest are not alleaged to proue any thing in cōtrouersie but onely withoute iudgement placed in the margent to make a shewe how aptly they be applyed I leaue to the consideration of the diligent Reader This one thing I can not but maruell at that these fellowes so please themselues in the platforme of their Church and attribute so much thervnto that they exhorte nay rather charge the courte of Parliament with perfecte hatred to detest the present state of the Churche with singular loue to embrace that which they prescribe in this Booke and to moue them rather to this perfect hatred of vs and singular loue of themselues they vse the authoritie of the. 31. and 139. Psalme In the one Dauid sayth that he hath hated them that gyue themselues to deceitfull vanities bicause he trusteth in the Lorde In the other speaking of the contemners of God of wicked and bloudie men Marke this spirite and of such as blaspheme God and be his enemyes he sayth I hate them vvith an vnfained hatred c. As thoughe all suche as like or alowe of the presente state of the Churche of this Realme of England gaue them selues to deceitfull vanities were contemners of God wicked and bloudy men blasphemers of God and his enimyes I will not aggrauate this blasphemie of theirs let Prince Nobles and all other louers of God his worde consider diligently this spirite and in time preuent the burning malice of the same no Turke no Iewe no Papist coulde possibly haue spoken more spitefully of this Church and state but such is the spirite of arrogancie To the lyke effecte they alleage the. 15. of Iohn 1. Timo. 3. Math. 7. 11. as thoughe they onely had the word of God and were of the Churche and we contemners and reiecters of the same O where is humilitie Truely if these men be not by discipline brideled they wil worke more harme to this Church than euer the Papist dyd Io. Whitgifte To this there is not one word spoken Admonition May it therefore please your wisedomes to vnderstande we in Englande are so farre off from hauing a Church rightly reformed according to the prescript of Gods word that as yet we are not come to the outwarde face of the same For to speake of that wherein all consent and wherevpon all writers accorde The outwarde markes wherby a true Christian Church is knowne are preaching of the worde purely ministring of the Sacramentes sincerely and Ecclesiasticall discipline which consisteth in admonition and correcting of faultes seuerely Touching the first namely the ministerie of the worde althougher must be confessed that the substance
of doctrine by many deliuered is sounde and good yet herein it fayleth that neither the Ministers thereof are accordyng to Gods worde proued elected called or ordained nor the function in such sorte so narrowly loked vnto as of right it ought and is of necessitie required Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 34. 35. The proposition that these libellers woulde proue is that we in Englande are so farre from hauyng a Churche rightly reformed accordyng to the prescripte of Gods worde that as yet we are not come to the outwarde face of the same For proofe hereof they vse this argnment There be three out warde markes whereby a true Christian Churche is knowen preaching of the worde purely ministryng of the Sacramentes sincerely and ecclesiasticall discipline whiche consisteth in Admonition and correction of faultes seuerely But thys Church of Englande for so in effecte they saye is voyde of all these Ergo it hath not so much as the externall face of a Church To proue that the worde of God is not preached truely they reason on thys sort The Ministers of the worde are not according to gods worde proued elected called or ordeyned nor the function in suche sort so narrowly loked vnto as of right it ought is of necessitie required And therfore the word of God not truely preached Here All pointes of doctrine pure in this church thankes be to God they alleage not one article of Faith or poynte of doctrine nor one peece of any substance to be otherwise taughte and allowed of in thys Churche for not euery mannes folly is to be ascribed to the whole Churche than by the prescripte worde of God may be iustified neyther can they Nowe howe this conclusion followeth though the antecedent were true let those iudge that be learned The Ministers are not rightly proued and elected c. An vnapt r son Ergo the worde of God is not truely preached howe wicked so euer the man is howsoeuer he intrude hymselfe into the ministerie yet maye he preache the true worde of God For the truthe of the doctrine dothe not in anye respecte depende vpon the goodnesse or euilnesse of the man I praye you howe were you and some other of your adherentes called elected c But to come to the purpose They woulde proue that the Ministers of the worde in this Church of Englande are not accordyng to gods worde proued elected called or ordeyned What force and pithe is in their argumentes shall appeare in the seuerall answeres to euery one of them This one thing I muste let you vnderstande that these men seeke to deface thys Churche of Englande by the selfe same groundes that the Papistes doe althoughe by another kynde of proofe For what haue the Papistes else to saye but that we haue no Ministers bycause they be not rightly called and so consequently no worde no Sacramentes no discipline no Churche And certainely if it were well examyned I beleeue it woulde fall oute that the Authors of this Booke haue conspired with the Papistes to ouerthrowe if they coulde the state both of this Churche and Realme howsoeuer subtilly they seeme to detest Papistrie T. C. Page 23. Sect. 1 2 3. (a) Where do I 〈◊〉 that they say so Where in effecte doe they saye that the Churche of Englande is voyde of preachyng ▪ and ministring of the Sacramentes is it all one to saye that the worde in the Churche of Englande is not purely preached and the Sacramentes sincerely and discipline seuerely administred wyth thys that the Churche of Englande is voyde of all these Agayne where doe they reason thus that the worde of GOD is not truely preached bycause the Ministers are not ryghtly proued and elected when as they haue not one worde of true preachyng Is it all one to saye it is not purely preached and to saye it is not truely preached Saynte Paule to the A cauill Philipp is gladde that the Gospell be preached althoughe it be not purely but he woulde neuer haue been gladde that it should haue been preached falsely or not truely Againe he inueygheth not agaynst the false Apostles in the Churche of Corinthe bycause they preached the worde vntruely but bycause they vsyng paynted words and affected eloquence and makyng a great shewe of learnyng and tounges dyd not preache the Gospell sincerely so that you see that it is one thyng not to preache truely and an other thing not to preache purely and so you see their reason is not so euill for the want of a good calling maye gyue occasion to saye that the worde of God is not sincerely taughte bycause there is not a lawfull and ordinarie calling For althoughe for the substaunce of doctrine and the manner of handlyng of it they that Sainte Paule speaketh to of the Philipp dyd not faulte yet Saynt Paule sayth that they dyd not preache purely bycause they dyd it of contention or of enuie whyche was no faulte in the doctrine but in hym that taughte Therefore let men iudge howe iuste your wayghtes are that expounde not purely not truely and whyther thys be to confute other mens argumentes rather than to skirmishe wyth your owne shadowes I knowe no Papistes reason thus that bycause we haue no Ministers therefore no worde no Sacrament no discipline no Churche For they denie that we haue the worde or Sacramentes bycause we holde not their worde and sacrifice but if there be that so reason yet these men that you charge haue neither any such antecedent or such a consequent For they neuer sayde that there is no Ministerie in England nor yet do euer conclude that there is no word no sacraments no discipline nor Churche For in saying that the face of the Churche dothe not so muche appeare for so the whole proces of their booke dothe declare that they meane when they say that we haue not scarce the face of the Churche they graunte that we haue the Churche of God but that for wante of those ornamentes whiche it shoulde haue and throughe certayne the deformed ragges of Poperie whiche it shoulde not haue the Churche dothe not appeare in hir natiue colours and so beautifull as it is meete she shoulde be prepared to so glorious a husbande as is the sonne of God Say you certaynely and do you beleeue that the authors of this booke are conspired with the Papistes to ouerthrowe this Churche and Realme Nowe certaynely I will neuer doe that iniurie vnto them as once to goe about to purge them of so manyfest slaunders nor neuer be broughte by the outrage of your speeches to proue that nooneday is not mydnight and therefore as for you I will set your conscience and you togither The reader I will desire not to thinke it a straunge thing for it is no other than hath happened to the seruaunts of God euen from those which haue professed the same religion whiche they dyd as it appeareth in the. 37. of Ieremie whiche was accused of certayne of the Israelites
Eradium mibi successorem volo c. Therefore least anye shoulde complayne of me I doe heere signifye vnto you all my will whyche I thynke to bee the wyll of God I will haue Eradius the mynister to bee my successoure c. Lastlye he sheweth howe he hymselfe was appointed Byshop his predecessor being yet aliue Here it is to be noted first what stirre began to be in Augustines time about such Notes out of the restunome of Augustine elections made by the people which was the cause why he and others appointed vnto themselues successors whilest they yet liued Secondly that Seuerus appointed to himselfe a successor and thought it not necessary therein to require the consent of the people which he would not haue neglected if it had bin either necessary or vsuall Last of all that Augustine pronounceth Eradius to be his successor in the presence of the people that they might know his minde but yet without asking their voyces although they did willingly of themselues consent for that which afterward he requireth them to subscribe vnto was the petition that he made vnto them no more to trouble hym with their ciuil matters but that they would resort vnto Eradius his successor for such causes When the reader hathe well considered these circumstances which he shall better learne in the place itselfe then let hym iudge how muche it serueth for your turne It may appeare by that Epistle of Ambrose what contention there was in Vercellensi Contention about popular elections ecclesia to the which he wrote about the election of their Byshop for they had bene long destitute of one as it there appeareth Wherefore he exhorteth them to agrée ▪ ment by the example of their predecessors who so well agréed in choosing of Eusebius wherevpon he saith meritò vir tantus meaning Eusebius euasit quem omnis elegit ecclesia Ambro. epi. 82 meritò creditum quòd diuino esset electus iudicio quem onmes postulauissent He worthily proued a notable man whome the whole Church elected he was rightly thought to be chosen by gods appointment whome euery one desired And who doubteth but that he is called of God whome the whole Church without suite without sinister affection without intent to mainteine factions and schismes doth desire this proues that in Ambrose his time in that Church the people desired their Byshop which is not to be denied but it also sheweth that in the same time there were maruellous contentions about such elections which is to be considered Nazianzene in that oration hath not one argument to proue that the election of the minister Nazianzene performeth not that for the which he is auouched Contention in popular elections doth perteyne to the Church neyther doth he confute those things which should séeme to hinder it for there is none alleadged only he declareth what a maruellous stirre and sedition there was at two sundry times in the Church of Caesaria about the election of the Byshop what violence was vsed about the same how the people were deuided among themselues first and after against their ministers Likewise how they suddenly misliked their owne choise and would haue disanulled it if they had not bin restreyned of their willes by Nazianzene his father How the Emperoure also and the ruler of the citie taking part with the factious company were by him pacifyed Surely this maketh very little to the commendation of popular elections Nay in the second contention that he there reciteth declaring who were the especiall authours of it he saith Ecclesiae enim a malo erant immunes pariter opulentiores potētiores sed omnis The common people especial authours of tumults in elections impetus ac seditio inter plebem erat ac precipuè vilissimam For the churches meaning the Cleargie were cleare from that mischiefe so were the richer sort also and they which were of greater authoritie but all the violence and sedition was among the common people and among them especially which were of the basest sort And a little after telling how his father pacifyed that sedition he saith that his father writ vnto them admonished them p pulum sacerdotes necnon alios quotquot qui ad gradum pertinebant obtestabatur eligebat * calculum ferebat c. He humbly intreated the people the priests and others which perteyned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to that order he elected chose c. What is here spoken that maketh not rather against you than with you no man denieth but that the people at this time had interest in the election of the minister in diuers Churches but that doth not proue that they ought to haue so nowe or that the Byshop hath no interest in the same nay inconueniences of popular elections did then manifestly appeare There is not as yet one authoritie brought in to proue that the ordering of ministers T. C. reasoneth not ad idem and defendeth not the Admonition doth at no hand apperteine to the byshop whiche the Admonition affirmeth and I haue improued but you haue not replyed vnto it kéeping your olde accustomed manner still not to reason ad idem for whereas you shoulde conclude thus the ordering of ministers doth at no hand perteyne to a Byshop you conclude thus The election T. C. letteth slip y e which he shold proue and yet proueth not that which he would The propositions that should haue bin defended of a Pastor or Byshop perteyneth not to one man alone And yet you haue not proued that only you bring in examples of popular elections and so haue I broughte in both examples and authorities for the sole election of the Byshop for they be both true But you ought to proue these two propositions if you will iustify the Admonition firste that popular elections ought to be perpetuall and secondly that the ordeyning of ministers dothe at no hand perteyne to the Byshop But you subtilly passe these ouer and cast a mist before your readers eyes in heaping vp out of Illiricus néedelesse proofes Chap. 7. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Page 41. Sect. 3. And that this election continued in the Churche vntill within a CCC yeares at what tyme there was more than Egyptiacall and palpable darknesse ouer the face of the whole yearth it may appeare in a treatise of Flaccus Illiricus whiche he calleth an addition vnto his booke that he entituleth the catalogue of the witnesses of truth of whome I confesse my selfe to haue bin (a) Not only much but almost altogither muche holpen in this matter of the choise of the Church touching the ministers especially in the Emperours edicts whiche are before cited For lacking opportunities diuers ways I was contented somewhat to vse the collection to my commoditie for the more speedy furtherance and better proceeding in other matters which I will leaue of bycause they may be there red of those that be learned whome I wil also referre to the sixt
peeces their Images sayth t us we make it Calui not now any scruple of conscience to reteine still those Churches which were polluted with Idols and to put them to better vse bycause that whiche is added to the lawe propter consequentiam as they terme it doth not bynde vs. I graunt that all those things which doe tende to the planting of superstition ought to be taken awaye so that by precise vrging of that vvhich is of it selfe indifferent vve be not in to much rigour Superstitious The place is worth the noting it fully ouerthroweth your groundes agaynst the apparell Saint Augustine in that sermon quoted in your margent speaketh against such as professing Christianitie did notwithstanding resort to the temples of the Paganes at their solemnities and feasts thinking it sufficient if they did in heart detest the Idols though in bodie they were present in their temples and at their feasts much like vnto those that thinke it sufficient to serue God in heart though in bodie they be present at the Masse and Idolatrous seruice That this is the meanyng of Augustine in that place it may euidently appeare to all suche as will peruse it vpon this Augustine bringeth in these wordes If you aske howe the Paganes may be ouercome wonne and illuminated howe they maye be brought to saluation forsake all their solemnitie let goe Aug. serm 6. de verbis domi in Matth. theyr toyes and then if they agree not vnto the truth let them be ashamed of theyr fewnesse It was in Saint Augustines time as it is in some places at this day where in some one citie there be Churches both for the Gospell and for the masse also it is not méete that suche as professe the Gospell shoulde resort to the Masse for besydes that they offende God in beyng presente at Idolatrous seruice they also giue occasion to the Papistes to thinke better of theyr Masse bycause they sée it frequented of suche as seeme to professe the Gospell and thereby also persuade them selues of a greater multitude that embraceth their Religion wherefore one way to conuert them is to absteine from their Churches that they may vnderstand both our misliking of theyr seruice and their owne paucitie also And that this is ment of by Augustine in that place it may also appeare by these wordes in the same Sermon The Paganes saye in their heartes why forsake we our Gods seeing the Christians them selues worship them as well as we And agayne Beholde against what true God thou doest offende whyles thou fallest downe before false Gods S. Augustine speaketh not one worde in all that sermon of ceremonies or any thing else taken from the gentils and by Christians conuerted to other vses muche lesse of any suche matter as we haue newe in question And therfore you do but abuse the Reader by reciting certaine words of S. Augustine without the circumstances which open the true meaning of them I praise your wit for saying that such things may be conuerted to priuate vses for denie that as S. Augustine plainely doth and I shall be bound vnto you that your doctrine shall haue the fewer fautors by 3. parts for surely many that condemne your opinions in heart for hope of priuate commoditie that might come vnto them by the dissolution of colledges Churches c. doe séeme very wel to like of them Wherfore teach them if you be wise that such things may be conuerted to their priuate vses whatsoeuer Augustine saith to the contrarie Augustine saith also that they maye be conuerted in honorem Dei vnto the honour of God What say you to that as for your denying that that vse is in distinguishing eyther the ministers from other men c. bicause it is but your bare denyall against al the proofes alleaged I will with affirming the contrarie passe it ouer Chap. 5. the fourth Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 58. Sect. 2. 3. Peter Martyr in the Epistle before mentioned touching this matter P. Martyr writeth on this sort But let vs consider your other argument that is to saye It is not lavvfull to vse these kinde of vestures bicause they vvere inuented by the Popes tyrannie In this poynt I doe not vvell perceiue hovve it may be affirmed for a suertie that vve can vse nothing that perteined to the Pope and is vsed in Temples of Idols conuer ted to the wor ship of God Poperie Truely vve must take good heede that vve bring not the Churche of Christ into suche bondage that it may not vse any thing that the Pope vsed It is very true that our forefathers toke the temples of Idols turned Reuenewes them into holy Churches vvhere Christ should be vvorshipped And they tooke also the salarie and reuenevves consecrated to the Idols of the gentils to their vvicked shevves and playes and to their holy votaries virgines and transposed it to finde the Ministers of the Church And yet all these things dyd not onely seruice vnto Antichrist but vnto the deuill yea the holy Ecclesiasticall Phrases of Poetes vvriters dyd not sticke to take the verses of Poetes vvhiche had bene dedicated to Muses and to other diuerse Gods and goddesses for to be played in playes and spoken in shevves to obteine the fauour of theyr Gods I say they did nothing sticke or feare to vse them vvhen it seemed to them conuenient imitating Paule the Apostle vvho stucke nothyng at all to rehearse for his purpose Menander Aratus and Epimenides and that he dyd in intreating the holy Scripture apply prophane vvordes to set forth Gods Religion VVe reade also hovve that vvine vvas consecrated Wine bread ▪ c. consecrated to Idols vnto Bacchus bread vnto Ceres vvater vnto Neptune oyle vnto Minerua letters vnto Mercurie song vnto the Muses and vnto Apollo and manie other things Tertullian rehearseth in his booke intituled de corona militis Christiani vvhere almost he entreateth thys selfe same argumente yet for all that vve sticke not to vse all these things freely asvvell in holye as in prophane vses although at one time or other before they had bene consecrated to Idols and to deuils Hetherto Peter Martyr T. C. Page 55. Sect. 5. To all these things that M. Martyr reckeneth vp of reuenewes and wages verses wyne breade oyle water which beyng consecrated vnto Idols are wel vsed Tertullian answereth in the same booke whereout a number of these are taken when he sayth that we oughte to admit a participation of those things which bryng eyther a necessitie or profit in the vse of them but we deny these things thus vsed are either necessarie or profitable And therefore in steade of temples tithes wine c. if you would haue matched the surplice well you shoulde haue sayde sensors tapers holy bread holy water and such like Io. Whitgifte Master Martyr vsed these examples to proue that the surplice and other apparell of Ministers nowe vsed for that is the matter he handleth
is well that you seeme to iustifye the gray Amyse bycause the Bishops haue disalowed of it in theyr Synode Truly this is your conscience and religion to be always ad oppositum to disalow that which law authoritie alloweth and allow that which they disalow The nexte waye as I thinke to driue you vnto conformitie in apparell were to make a streight law that no man should weare such kind of apparell bycause you loue to be contrary to lawes and good orders T. C. Page 57. Sect 3. 4. 5. Now I will desire the reader to turne vnto the. 237. 238. 239. 240. 242. pages to see whether at this third voyage master Doctor bringeth any better marchandise Where first he surmiseth an vntruth as though the Admonition misliked of the taking away of the gray Amis where it saith only that there was lesse cause to take that away than the surplis c. Wherein there is nothing but the truth sayd for bycause that was vsed in fewe churches and but of fewe also in those few churches Therefore if there were cause to take away that there was greater to take away the surplis And to take away the Amis out of the Church and leaue the surplis c. is to heale a scratch and leaue a wound vnhealed Now whereas you say that we are always Ad appositum and that if the lawe commaunded straightly that we should weare none of this apparel that then we would weare if it should be answered againe that you do (*) I 〈◊〉 as few times as you Seruire scenae that is that you are a time seruer you see we mighte speake with more likelyhoode than you But we will not take as you do the iudgemente of God out of his hands but will attend paciently the reuelation and discouering of that whiche is nowe hidde both in you and vs. And although you will graunt vs neyther learning nor conscience yet you might afford vs so much witte as that we would not willingly and of purpose want those commodities 〈◊〉 which we might otherwise enioy as well as you if we had that gift of conformitie which you haue Io. Whitgifte The wordes of the Admonition touching the gray Amise be these we maruayle that they could espie in their last synode that a gray Amis which is but a garmēt of dignitie should be a garment as they say defiled with superstitiō and yet that coapes c. Do they not say that the Amis is but a garment of dignitie c consider their words well and you shall sée that master Doctor hath said truly The gray Amis was iustly taken away bycause the vse of it is not established by any law of this realme as the vse of other vestures be and in mine opinion the Byshops deserued commendation in so doing for thereby they declared that they will not suffer any rites or ornaments to be vsed in this Church but suche only as are by publike authoritie established Experience hathe taught me that diuerse men be of that nature that they haue a Some men delight to be contrary to times delight in opposing themselues to the present estate and I sée it by proofe to be a great fault in diuers of you I haue hitherto serued as few contrary times as you haue done as for the gift of conformitie which you say I haue I thanke God for it I haue learned to conforme my selfe to the time in that sense that S. Paule hath willed me so to do Rom. 12. and to Rom. 12. Rom. 13. lawes also and magistrates as I am likewise commauuded in the. 13. Chapter of the same epistle What commodities you want that I haue I cannot coniecture your meate and drinke is prouided with lesse trouble and charges vnto you and in more delicate and deintie manner than mine is your ease and pleasure ten times more you do what you list go when you list come when you list speake when you list at your pleasure What would you haue more I know not why you should complaine except you be of the same disposition with the Franciscane Friers who when they hadde filled their bellies at other mens tables were wont to cry out and say O quanta patimur c. Some men are delited to be fed at other mens tables and preferre popular fame befor Gold and siluer The faults wherewith the Admonitors charge the Apparell ansvvered Chap. 7. the. 1. Diuision Admonition But they are as the garments of the idoll to which we should say auaunt and get the e h ▪ They are as the garments of Balaamites of Popish priests enimies to God and all christians h Esa. 30. 22. Ansvvere to the Admonition Page 237. Sect. 3. 4. Pag. 238. Sect. 1. But you say they are as the garmentes of the Idoll to the whiche we should say auant Cursed thigs consecrated to God and get thee hence they are as the garments of Balaamites of Popish priests enimies to God and all Christians Be it so so were all things in Hierico accursed and an abhomination to the Lord neither was it lawfull for the Israelites to touch any thing therof and yet was the gold and the siluer and the brasen and iron vessels caried into the treasure house of the Lord and consecrated vnto him Iosua 6. Gedeon was commaunded to take and sacrifice that Oxe of his fathers Gedeon sacrificed an oxe consecrated to Baal to God which his father had fedde and brought vp to be sacrificed to Baal yea and to burne that Oxe with the selfesame wood that was consecrated and dedicated to the Idoll Baal Iudic. 6. Our forefathers toke the temples dedicated wholly to Idolls yea to Deuils and most abhominably defiled with diuelish and abhominable seruice and turned them into holy Churches wher Christ should be worshipped T. C. Pag. 57. Sect. 6. 7. Whereas you say that the accursed things of Iericho and the Oxe that was fedde to be anctified vnto Baal and the wood consecrated vnto the Idoll were conuerted to the seruice of the liuing God when you shall proue that the surplis is so necessary to the seruice of God as gold and siluer and other mettall and as Oxen and wood whereof the first sort were such as without the which the temple could not be built the other such as were expressely commaunded of God ▪ to be vsed in his seruice then I will confesse that this place maketh something for you And (*) Here you disport your selfe with your owne imagination yet if your coapes and surplices c. should haue such a purgation by fyre as those (a) No such purgation to be found in that place metalls had or euer the Lord would admitte them into his treasure house and should be driuen to passe from Poperie vnto the gospell by the Chimney the fire would make suche wracke with them that they should neede haue better legges than your arguments to bring them into the Church Moreouer do you not
the Christ nor Elias nor the prophet now there is a great difference betwixt these two kynde of speaches if thou be not of the Prophets and if thou be not the Prophet For the first signifieth that they should aske him whether he were any of the Prophets the other whether he were that prophet whom they looked for to be suche a one as Moyses was according to that which is written Deut. 18. vers 15. for else Iohn wold Deut. 18. not haue denied himself to haue bin a Prophet seeing that Christ sayth he was one Math. 11. Moreouer they aske him not of those ordinarie functions that were then in Math. 11 ▪ the Church but of such extraordinarie persons as they looked for to come as Christ Elias or that prophete Thirdly they did not recite all the ordinarie functions as Leuite and Priest whiche were then most ordinarie and almost only at that tyme so that your reason hath neyther forme nor truth in it Chap. 1. the eight Diuision T. C. Pag. 62. Sect. 4. Let the whole practise of the church vnder the law be looked vpon it shall not be founde that any other ecclesiastcal ministerie was appointed thā those orders of high priest and priests and Leuites c. which were apointed by the law of God and if there were any raised extraordinarily the fame had their calling confirmed from heauen either by signes or miracles or by playne and cleere testimonies of the mouth of God or by extraordinarie exciting and mouing of the spirite of God So that it appeareth that the ministerie of the gospell and the functions therof ought to be from heauen and of God and not inuented by the braines of men from heauen I say and heauenly bicause although it be executed by earthly men and the ministers also are chosen by men like vnto themselues yet bicause it is done by the worde and institution of god that hath not only ordeyned that the worde should be preached but hath ordeined also in what order and by whome it should be preached it may be well accompted to come from heauen and from god Io. Whitgifte Neyther is there any new ministerie or order appointed in this churche bicause The Archbishop no new ministerie there be Archbishops For Archbishops be ministers of the word and Sacramentes and Quoad ministerium do not differ from other pastors in respect of whom they are called Archbishops but touching order gouernment as you may reade afterwarde in the answere to the admonition So that all this which is here spoken is grounded vpon a false principle For you would make the reader beléeue that to institute an Archbishop is to institute a newe ministerie wherein you are maruellously ouershot The Iewes had gouernment in their church and superioritie in the ecclesiasticall estate and so haue we But you may not tie the church of Christ to the patterne of the Iewes synagoge for that were to make it seruile Chap. 1. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Pag. 62. Sect. 5. Seing therfore that these functions of the Archbishop and Archdeacon are not in the worde W ake proofes must needes inferre a weak conclusion of god it followeth that they are of the earth and so can do no good but much harme in the church And if any man will say that we do the Church great iniurie bicause we doe tye hir to a certayne number of orders of ministers as it were to a stake so that we may not deuise new functions I say that both the church and Christ dothe accuse him againe Christ esteemeth himself to haue iniurie bicause that by this meanes he is imagined not to haue bene carefull and prouident enough for his churche in that he hath left the ministerie wherin doth consist the lyfe of the church being that whereby it is begotten so rawly and vnperfect that by permitting it to the ordering of men there is a greate danger of errour whiche he might haue set without all daunger by a woorde or two speaking Io. Whitgifte Your proofes hitherto alleadged are moste insufficient to iustiste this conclusion and yet doe you boldly goe on as though all were sure This is but beldenesse and confidencie it is not sounde and pithie dealing I still denie that there is any other ministerie in the Churche bycause there are Archebishops than is by the worde of God confirmed But you haue not yet proued by either Scripture or reason that there oughte not to be gouernours or superiors among the ministers of the Gospel to whome any other names may be giuen than is expressed in the word which you ought to proue else you doe but dallie and studie with vayne wordes to enlarge your booke It is manyfest that Christ hath left the gouernment of his Church touching the externall policie in sundrie points to the ordering of men who haue to make orders and lawes for the same as tyme place and person requireth so that nothing bée done contrary to his worde as it is before proued Tract 2. and shall be more hereafter Chap. 1. the. 10. Diuision T. C. Pag. 62. Sect. 6. The Churche of the other syde ryseth against him for that he maketh Christ lesse careful for hir than he was for that vnder the law For 〈◊〉 me in the whole volume of the testament is there any kinde or degree of ministerie wherof God is not the certaine and expresse author Was there euer any man I except Ieroboam and such prophane men either so holie or so wyse or of such great knowledge y t euer did so much as dreame of instituting of a newe ministerie After the long wandring of the arke in the wildernesse when it came to be placed in Ierusalem tell me if any besydes the Leuites and priests the ordinarie ministers and the prophetes whiche were unmediatly stirred vp of God were found to haue ordeined any office or title which was not commaunded or whether there was at any tyme any thing added or enioyned to those offices of priesthobe and Leuiteship which was not by the lawe prescribed Io. Whitgifte Surely here is nothing but vaine repetitions of that false principle whervpon thys tantalogie and multiplication of wordes is buylded that is y t the institution of T. C faulteth still in the petition of the principle an Archbishop is the institution of a new ministerie as though the apostle S. Paule whē he placed Timothie at Ephesus Titus at Creta did institute a new ministerie bicause he gaue thē authoritie iurisdiction ouer y e rest as it is afterward proued or the Church whē it did apoynt one amōg the Bishops to gouern the rest in Scismatis remedium to remedie schismes as Hierom sayth as it shall more at large hereafter be declared Neyther can it therfore be sayde that Christe doth shew him selfe lesse Christe is not lesse carefull for this churche than for that vnder the lawe carefull for his church than he did for that vnder the lawe
prouinciarum Metropolitani potestatem habeant in suos Episcopos sacerdotes ecclesias Alexandrinus in Aegypto Antiochenus in Syria c. This Synode also appoynted that the Metropolitanes of euery prouince shoulde haue authoritie ouer their Byshops Priestes and Churches The Byshop of Alexandria in Egypt and the Byshop of Antioche in Syria c. And in his booke that he entituleth a refutation of the innectiue of Brunus against the Centuries he doth interprete this Canon on this manner Here we see plainely that the Nicene Councell first in this Canon doth giue a primacie to the Metropolitane in euery Prouince and doth make subiecte vnto him all the Byshops and Priestes of his prouince Moreouer that it maketh all the Metropolitane Byshops as of Alexandria Rome and Antioche and of other Prouinces altogether of equall authoritie amongst them selues And last that the subiectes if that I may so say of an other may not appeale to any other Metropolitane and after this manner the sixth Councell of Carthage doth vnderstande alleage and vrge the foresaid Canon in the former Epistle M. Foxe who hath very diligently and faithfully laboured in this matter and searched out the truth of it as learnedly as I knowe any man to haue done in his firste Tom. Pag. 11. writeth thus Then followed the Councell of Nyce wherein it was decreed M. Foxe that throughout the vniuersitie of Christes Churche which was nowe farre spred ouer the world certeine Prouinces and Precinctes to the number of foure were appoynted euery one to haue his head Churche and chiefe Byshop called them Metropolitanes or Patriarkes to haue the ouersight of such Churches as did lye about him and Pag. 12. he speaketh to the same effecte as it may appeare in his wordes which I haue before recited And in the same Page he saith VVherefore as we must needes graunt the Byshop of Rome to be called a Metropolitane or an Archbyshop by the Councell of Nyce so we will not greatly sticke in this also to haue him numbred with Patriarkes or Primates c. But the very wordes of the Canon it selfe doth condemne you of a great ouersight T. C. condemned of vn truth by the words of the Canon Can. 6. For this is the Canon antiqua consuetudo seruetur per Aegyptū Libyam Pentapolim ita vt Alexandrinus Episcopus horum omnium habeat potestatem c. Let the auncient custome be kept throughout Egypt Libya and Pentapolis that the Byshop of Alexandria haue the gouernment of all these c. as is said before How say you nowe is not this for the name and for the office also of our Metropolitanes and Archbyshops had not they iurisdiction of whole Prouinces as ours haue The authoritie of tropo ane were not all other Byshops and Ministers of the Church subiect to them as they be to ours were not they Metropolitanes of Prouinces and countreys as ours be And is this no more to differ than a Minister of London and a Minister of Nuington Truely I maruaile that you can be caryed vnto so manifest vntruthes and palpable errors But for the further declaration of the authoritie of a Metropolitane Byshop though this which I haue said be sufficient it may please you to take paines to peruse in the Con. Antioc Councell of Antioche the. 9. Canon Per singulas prouincias Episcopos conuenit nosse Metropolitanum Episcopum solicitudinem totius prouinciae gerere In euerye prouince it is conuenient that Byshops should know that the Metropolitane Byshop hath the caryng for of the vvhole prouince c. as is mentioned before in the first Canon of the Councell of Ephesus It is also euident that the Metropolitane of the Prouince for so is he there called had authoritie ouer all the Bishops in the same prouince But to make short bycause I shall haue other occasion to speake of this matter M. Foxe in the treatise before recited concludeth thus VVhereby it is to be concluded that to be false that Clement and Anacletus and Anicetus be reported but falsly to put a difference betwene Primates or Patriarkes Metropolitanes or Archbyshops whereas by sufficient authoritie 〈◊〉 is to be proued that in the olde Churche both Primates first Byshops Byshops of the firste seate Patriarkes Metropolitanes Byshops of the mother Citie and Archbyshops were all one First that Primates and Metropolitanes were both one is before declared in the Canons of the Apostles and by the Councel of Antioche aforesayd The same doth Vilierius Vilierius affirme in his booke de statu primitiuae ecclesiae Fol. 26. and proueth it out of Socrates verye manifestly that is that Metropolitanes and Patriarkes were all one at the first I am not ignorant but there is some controuersie among both the Ciuilians and Canonistes whether a Metropolitane or an Archbyshop be all one or no but in the ende this is the opinion of the most so farre as I can reade or learne that they be idem re the same in déede but differ nomine in name For he is called an Archbyshop in respect of the other Byshops of whom he is the chiefe But he is called Metropolitane in respecte of the Cities that be within his Prouince But of Archbyshops and Metropolitanes more must be spoken hereafter Chap. 2. the. 20. Diuision T. C. Page 70. Sect. vlt. There are alleaged to proue the names of Archbishops Patriarkes Archdeacons the. 13. 25. 26. and. 27. Canons of the Councell of Nice For the. 25. 26. and. 27. there are no suche Canons of that Councell and although there be a thirtenth Canon there is no worde of Patriarke or Archdeacon there conteined And I maruaile with what shame you can thrust vpon vs these (*) These Canons differ onely in number and not in matter from those that are not counterfeit counterfeite Canons which come out of the Popes mint yea and which are not to e founde Theodorete saith that there are but twentie Canons of the Councell of Nyce and those twentie are in the ome of the Councels and in those there is no mention of any Patriarke Archbyshop Archdeacon Li. 1. cap. 8. Li. 1. cap. 6. Ruffine also remembreth 22. Canons very little differing from those other twentie but in length in none of those are founde any of these names of Archbishop Archdeacon or Patriarke and it is as (a) Not so for that is repugnant to the true Canon therfore coūterfeit lawfull for M. Harding to allcage the. 44. Canon of the Councell of Nyce to proue the Supremacie of the Pope of Rome as it is for M. Doctor Whitgifte to alleage the. 25. 26. 27. to proue the name of Archbyshop Archdeacon Patriarke for they are all of one stampe and haue lyke authoritie Io. Whitgifte I will not greatly sticke in the defense of those Canons the fixth the seuenth Canō do sufficiently verifie all that I haue alleaged out of the other as is declared not onely
haue much a do to proue that Antichrist had not inuaded the sce of Rome when your Clement Anaclete Anicete and Damasus wrote nay it is most certayne that then he had possessed it but what is that to the purpose although there was no one singular head appeared or lifted vp yet corruptiō of doctrine of the sacraments hurtful ceremonies dominion pompe of y e Cleargie new orders functions of y e ministerie which were the hāds that pulled him y e feete which brought him the shoulders that lifted and heaued hym vp into that seat were in the Church Neither while you do thus speake do you seeme to remember that this monster needed not nine monethes but almost nine hundred yeares to be framed and fashioned or euer he could with all his parts be brought to light And althoughe the louer of this Antichristian building were not set vp yet the foundations thereof being secretly and vnder the grounde laid in the Apostles time you might easily know that in those times that you spake of y e building was wonderfully aduaunced growen very high and being a very daungerous thing to ground any order or pollicie of the Churche vpon men at all which in deede ought to haue their standing vpon the doctrine and orders of the Apostles I wyll shew what great iniurie M. Doctor doth to send vs for our examples and patterns of gouernment to these times which he doth dicette vs vnto Io. Whitgifte These be but wordes the same mighte be also spoken of the Apostles times For Antichrist began in the Apostles tunes 2. Thess. 2. 1. Io. 2. enen then Paul speaking of Antichrist sayd Nam mysterium nuncagit iniquitatis for the mysterie of iniquitie doth already worke And S. Iohn sayd that there then began to be many Antichristes but doth this detract any thing from the truth taught in that time or shall we therfore refuse to take such examples of it as is conuenient for our time There is no man of learning and modestie which will without manifest proofe condemne any order especially touching the gouernment of the Churche that was vsed and allowed during the time of the primitiue Church which was the next 500. yéeres after Christ within the which time most of my authorities are conteined Neyther was there any functiō or office brought into the Church during al that time allowed by any generall Councel or credible writer which was not most meete for that time and allowable by the word of God I graunt that Antichrist was working all this time and grewe more and more for else could there neuer haue bene so many sectes and heresies from time to tyme spred in the Church which was the cause of so many singular and notable Councels so many profitable and necessary bookes written by such learned and godly Doctors as did with might and maine striue against them Out of the which Councels and fathers and best witnesses what was done in those times I haue fetched my proofes euen out of them I say that did with might and maine labour to kepe out Antichrist from the possession of the Church and therefore not to be suspected to consent to Antichrist I knowe that those sectes and heresies gaue strength vnto Antichriste and at the length were one speciall meanes of placing him in his throne euen as I am also perswaded Antichrist worketh in England by contentious persons that he worketh as effectually at this daye by your styrres and contentions wherby he hath and will more preuaile against this Church of England than by any other meanes whatsoeuer Therefore it behoueth you to take héede how you deuide the armie of Christ which should vnanimiter fight against that Antichrist As for vs we must follow the examples of those good fathers and labour accordingly to restore vnitie and to preserue it Chap. 2. the. 37. Diuision T. C. Pag. 73. Sect. vlt. Eusebius out of Egesippus writeth y e as long as the Apostles lyued y e Church remained a pure virgin for that if there were any that went about to corrupt the holy rule that was preached they Euseb. lib. 3. cap. 32. did it in the darke and as it were digging vnderneath the earth But after the death of the Apostles and that generation was paste whiche God vouchsaued to heare the diuine wisedome with their owne eares then the placing of wicked error began to come into the Church Io. Whitgifte It is euident in diuerse places of the Scripture namely in the first Epistle to the Corruptions in the churche in the Apostles time ▪ Corinthians and the Epistle to the Galath that there were many grosse and greate corruptions openly professed in the Churche by diuerse not onely in maners but also in doctrine euen in the Apostles tyme and Eusebius hymselfe declareth that there Euseb. lib. 2. Cap. 13. Idē Lib. 3. was one Simon mencioned Acts. 8. whom he calleth the author of all heresie Lib. 2. Cap. 13. Likewyse he sheweth Lib. 3. that Ebion Cerinthus and the Nicholaites all horrible heretikes were in the Apostles time Wherefore if this be a good reason then is it not safe for vs to follow no not the Apostles time Chap. 2. the. 38. Diuision T. C. Pag. 74. Sect. 1. Element also in a certayne place to confirme that there was corruption of doctrine immediately Li. stromat somvvhat after the be ginning after the Apostles time alleageth the prouerb that there are fewe sonnes like their fathers Io. Whitgifte I can finde no such thing in Clement but the matter is not great whether he saye so or no. The argument is starke noughte for if this followe that we may take no example paterne or testimonie of gouernment out of that time bycause it was corrupte then by the same reason muste we not take examples of any tyme no not out of the Apostles time bicause that was also corrupte as I haue saide Your argumentes be passing strong surely I maruaile with what boldnesse you write them Chap. 2. the. 39. Diuision T. C. Page 74. Sect. 2. And Socrates sayth of the Church of Rome and Alexandria which were the most famous Li. 7. 11. Churches in the Apostles tymes that aboute the yeare 430. the Romane and Alexandrian Byshops (*) Socrates fal fied leauyng the sacred function were degenerate to a secular rule or dominion wherevpon we see that it is safe for vs to goe to the Scriptures and to the Apostles tymes for to fetche our gouernment and order and that it is very daungerous to drawe from those ryuers the fountaynes wherof are troubled and corrupted especially when as the wayes whereby they runne are muddier and more fennie than is the head itselfe Io. Whitgifte You falsifie the wordes of Socrates for thus be sayth For euen till that tyme the Nouatians florished maruellously at Rome and had manye Churches and had gathered Socra lib. 7. Cap. 11. muche people But enuie tooke holde of
And Hierome saith that y e cause why among y e Bishops one was chosen to gouerne y e rest was to remedie schismes Do you not perceiue how these two fathers ioyne in one truthe directly affirme y e self same matter It is true y t time corrupteth therfore much more occasion is offered to appoint gouernment according to y e times least the corruptions preuaile get the vpper hand for this cause Hierome saith that vpon these corruptions of time the Church was constreined to appoint this order Chap. 3. the. 17. Diuision T. C. Pag. 79. Sect. 3. And here I must put M. Doctor in remēbrance how vnfitly he hath dedicated his booke vnto y e church which hath so patched it peeced it of a number of shreddes of the Doctors y t a sentence of A friuolous di from the matter the scripture either truly or fal ly alleaged is as it were a Phenix in this booke If he would haue had y e church beleue him he oughte to haue setled their iudgement grounded their faith vpon the scriptures which are y e only foūdations whervpon y e church may build Now he doth not only not giue thē ground to stand of but he leadeth them into wayes which they cannot follow nor come after him For except it be those which are learned besides haue the meanes abilitie to haue the bookes which are here cited which are y e least smalest portion of the Church how can they know that these things be true which are alleaged as I haue said if they could know yet haue they nothing to stay themselues vpon quiet their conscience in allowing y e which M. Doctor woulde so faine haue them like of Therfore he might haue much more fitly dedicated his booke vnto y e earned and riche which haue furnyshed lybraries Io. Whitgifte M. Doctor hath brought more scriptures thā you haue answered as in the sequele it wil fal out although as I said before in such matters y e scripture hath not expresly Tract 2. determined any certeintie but hath left them to the Church to be appointed according to the circumstances of time place and person as I haue proued both out of the scriptures learned writers intend to do hereafter more particularly whē I come to entreat of your Seigniorie If al other men should do as you haue done that is borrow the sayings of the Doctors out of other mens collections not read y e authors thē selues a few bokes wil serue with very smal charges they mightbe prouided The patches peeces shreds of Doctors that be in my boke are taken out of the Doctors thēselues they be whole sentences faithfully alledged But the shreds of doctors that your boke is stuffed with you haue borrowed of other you haue falsifyed thē cut them off by the half you haue fathered vpon them that which is not to be founde in them and the words of late writers you haue set downe vnder the name of ancient fathers and the scriptures you haue falsely alleaged and vntruely translated I would not gladly haue burst out into this accusation at this time being from the matter but that you haue vrged me therevnto Chap. 3. the. 18. Diuision T. C. Page 79. Sect. 4. 5. 6. Hierome saith y e at the first a Bishop an elder which you call a priest were all one but afterward through factions schismes it was decreed y t one should rule ouer y e rest Now I say against this order that y e Bishop should beare rule ouer all y e which our sauiour Christ saith vnto y e Phariseis from y e beginning it was not so therfore I require that y e first order may stand which was Contr Prax. that a Bishop elder were all one And if you place so great authoritie against the institution of God in a mortall man heare what Tertullian saith vnto you That is true whatsoeuer is first and that is false whatsoeuer is latter Hierome you confesse y t this was first that y e Bishop was all one with y e elder first also by y e Tertullians meaning falsified word of God thē I conclude y t that is true You both do likewise confesse y t it came after that one bare rule ouer the rest then I conclude y e that is false for all that is false that is latter Furthermore Hierome in the same place of Titus saith after this sort As y e elders know themselues to be subiect by a custome of the Churche vnto him that is set ouer them so the Byshops must knowe that they are greater than the elders rather by custome than by any truth of the instatution of the Lord and so they ought to gouerne the Church in common Io. Whitgifte It followeth after in my answere to the Admonition that there was superioritie among the ministers of the word e ē in the Apostles time which I 〈◊〉 by the riptures other testimonies it is also 〈◊〉 that great factions schi mes did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Church euē in the Apostles time therfore most like these that Icrome sp keth of to haue bin thē determined The which to be true his words ad 〈◊〉 touching y e church of Alexādria doth euidently declare for he saith y t this order was kept 〈◊〉 frō S. Marke But admit these were not true which you wil neuer be able to proue yet your argument is of no force the place of Tertullian is not vnderstanded for Tertullian in that boke after he hath repeated the rule of faith which is to beleeue in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ one God and in his sonne Iesus Ch ist c. he saith that this rule hath come from the beginning of the Gospell euen before all former heretikes muche more before 〈◊〉 that was but yesterdaye as well the posteritie of all heretikes as the verye noueltie of 〈◊〉 which was of late will proue VVhereby iudgement may hereof be indifferently gyuen against all heresies that that is true whatsoeuer is first that count rfeit whatsoeuer is last Wherby it is e ident that Tertullians rule is to be vnderstanded in matters of saluation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to be 〈◊〉 s ode 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gin veland of faith not in matters of ceremonies kinds of gouernment which thing he himselfe in plaine words declareth in his booke de virginibus velandis where in lyke maner after he hath recited this rule of faith he addeth this lawe of aith remaining other things of discipline conuersation admit newnesse of correction the grace of God working and going forward euen to the end So that Tertullian thinketh that matters of ceremonies and discipline may be altered y e rule of faith remaining 〈◊〉 notwithstanding his former rule If you will not haue this to be the meaning of Tertulliā then will I reason thus The reason of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
rest to supplie that place and office which now the Archbishop hath Chap. 3. the. 23. Diuision T. C. Pag. 80. Sect. 2. And if any can shew me one man in these tymes of whom we may be assured that he will pronounce The Archbishop hath 〈◊〉 to thanke you for your gentlenesse the truth of euery question which shall arise he shall make me somwhat more fauorable to the Archbishop than presently I am For although there were found one such as could not erre yet I could not consent that the matter shoulde lie only vpon his hande seeing that the Apostles which could not erre in these matters would not take that vpon them seeing that by that meanes the iudgement of the Church should be contemned and further for that the iudgement of one man in a controuersie is not so strong to pull vp errors that are rooted in mens minds as the iudgement and consent of many For that the iudgement of many is very apt either to confirme a truth or to confute falsehoode it is euident that S. Paule doth holde forth as it were a buckler agaynst the frowardnesse of certaine the authoritie of the Church Io. Whitgifte You take great paynes in fighting without an aduersarie and bicause otherwise as it should séeme you lacke matter to lengthen your booke therfore you deuise matter of your owne to striue agaynst For who hath affirmed that which you so earnestly séeke in this place to ouerthrowe It hath bene tolde twise alreadie that neyther of our Archbishops taketh vpon him to compounde controuersies in doctrine by himselfe alone neyther is it their office so to doe The Archbishops authoritie in this The authoritie of Archbishops in our Church Church is to prouide by lawfull and ordinarie meanes that vnitie be obserued in the Church that contentions and schismes be cut off that the religion and orders of the Church by the whole consent of the Church agréed vpon be mainteyned that euery Bishop in his prouince doe his duetie according to the same this is his principall charge as I take it agaynst the which you haue not as yet spoken any thing but deuise with your selfe to improue that which no man affirmeth this is but verie shifting and dallying Chap. 3. the. 24. Diuision T. C. Pag. 80. Sect. 3. Furthermore if this distinction came vp in the Apostles tyme and by them how commeth it to passe that they neuer mention it nay how commeth it to passe that euen S. Paule in that very Epistle where these voyces are founde I holde of Paule I of Apollo I of Cephas whiche are 1. Cor. 14. sayde to be the cause of the Archbishop ordeyneth a cleane contrarie to this that M. doctor commendeth (a) A place farre se ched to improue the office of the Archbishop For when two or three Prophets haue expounded the scriptures he appoynteth that all the rest that are there should iudge whether they haue done well or no. Io. Whitgifte I contend not that the name of the Archbishop was in the Apostles tyme but you haue not yet proued that the office was not then or that there was then no superioritie among the Cleargie which you notwithstanding denie Your negatiue reason proueth nothing as you haue bene oftentymes tolde The place in the. 1. Cor. 14. is farre fetched it speaketh not of gournment and T. C. faulteth with the Admonition in vnapt allegations of scripture discipline or externall pollicie of the Church but of expounding the Scriptures And what a reason cal you this S. Paule saith 1. Cor. 14. Prophet duo aut tres loquantur caete i dijudicent Let two or three Prophets speake and let the other iudge Ergo he speaketh agaynst an Archbishop Surely if the Authours of the Admonition had not bene detected of their vnskilfull allegations of Scriptures I shoulde haue had as much a doe with you in that poynt for euen of these fewe which you haue vsed there is not almost one rightly and truely applied S. Paule in that place to the Corinthians sheweth that the hearers must iudge of the doctrine of the Prophets whether it be according to the worde of God or no as those did whiche are commended in the. 17. of the Actes but what is this to an Archbishop Chap. 3. the. 25. Diuision T. C. Pag. 81. Sect. 1. And howe commeth it to passe that S. Paule being at Rome in prison and looking euery day when he shuld giue vp his last breath cōmended vnto the Church a perfect an absolute ministerie Ephe. 4. Howe oft hath this beene repeated standing of fiue partes wherein he maketh mention not one worde of an Archbishop and sayeth further that that ministerie is able to enterteyne the perfect vnitie and knitting togither of the Church Do not all these things speake or rather crie that there was not so much as a step of an Archbishop in the Apostles times Io. Whitgifte How oft haue you alledged this place to y e same purpose If I should do the like you The place Eph. 4. no per ect pater would bestow one whole side in iesting at it But I answere you as I did before In this place the Apostle as you confesse reciteth offices that be but temporall as Apostle Prophet c. he leaueth out those offices which you say are perpetuall as Deacon and Senior Therefore it is no such perfect patterne as you would haue it And if you say that these offices are conteyned vnder the names of Pastors and Doctors then I say that Bishops and Archbishops be so in like maner If you will haue the Apostle to speake of these ministeries onely which are occupied in the worde and sacraments then I say vnto you that an Archbishop is a name of Iurisdiction and gouernment Archbishop a name of iurisdiction not of a new ministerie committed to a Bishop Pastor or Minister of the worde as necessarie for the good gouernment of the Church but not as any new ministerie as you vntruly both now and also before haue surmised But to let all this passe in those offices whiche S. Paule here reciteth is the office of an Archbishop conteyned though it be not named and namely vnder the Apostles and Pastors as I haue before shewed Chap. 3. the. 26. Diuision T. C. Pag. 81. Sect. 1. And if you will say that the Apostles did ordeyne Archbishops as you haue indeed sayd and do now againe when as there is not one worde in the writings of them I pray you tell vs howe we shall hold out of the Church the vnwritten verities of the Papists For my part if it be true that you say I cannot tell what to answere vnto them For our answere is to them the Apostles haue left a perfect rule of ordering the Church written and therefore we reiect their traditions if for no other cause yet bicause they are superfluous and more than need Now this degree of Archbishop being not only
Churche to the which the whole realme hath consented Can. apost 33. The. 33. Canon of the Apostles quoted in the margent is this Episcopos singularum gentium scire conuenit quis inter eos primus babeatur quem velut existiment c. It behoueth the Bishops of euery prouince to know who is chiefe among thē whom they must esteeme as their head and do nothing without his knowledge saue such things only as pertayne to their owne parish and villages which are vnder it neyther shall he do any thing without the knowledge of all For so shall vnitie be kept and God shall be glorified through Christe in the holy Ghost What haue you gotten by this Canon you see here manifestly that in euery prouince or nation there must be one chiefe Bishop that is Archbishop to whom the rest muste submitte themselues and do nothing without his knowledge This is asmuch as I require And if this Canon was made by the Apostles wherof you seeme not to doubte then is the name and authoritie of an Archbishop of greater antiquitie than you would gladly haue it and the reason and saying of S. Ierome most true Both of this Canon and of the Canon of the councell of Antioch confirming it I haue spoken before Your Passim in the margent if it be meant of such like plac s as this I graunt it but if of any other popular or Aristocraticall state and kinde of gouernment or to the improuing of the office and authoritie of an Archbishop it will fall out to be nusquam You say that it appeareth in the decretalls themselues that this kinde of gouernment hath bene the wellspryng of most horrible schisme Shew one place why are you not ashamed to vtter manifest vntruthes Shew one sentence there tending to that ende I haue recited some Canons out of that place and I haue shewed the entent of Gratian both in them and in the rest They all signifie that an Archbyshop may not do any thing of his owne authoritie without the consent of the other Byshops which no man denieth and this is the whole scope of that question Our peace is in truth and due obedience we haue the true doctrine of the worde of God and the right administration of the Sacramentes and therefore to make contention in this Church and to disturbe the quietnes and peate cannot be but mere schismaticall I will say no worse Zuinglius in his Ecclesiastes sayth that the Anabaptistes went aboute to defende their contentions then after the same manner that you do yours nowe But I answere you as he answered them your contention is not agaynst Infidels Papists and such like but agaynst the faythfull agaynst the true professors of the Gospell and in the Church of Christe and therefore as it is of it selfe wicked so is it the cause of contempt disobedience and much other vngodlinesse And the two flintstones may be in such time and place striken togither that the sparkes of fire which commeth from them may consume and burne the whole citie and countrie too And surely he is but a mad man that will smite fire to light a candle to sée by at noone day when the sunne shineth most clearely Chap. 3. the. 30. Diuision T. C. Pag. 81. Sect. 4. If therefore superioritie and domination of one aboue the rest haue such force to keepe men frō schismes when they be in the truth it hath as great force to keepe them togither in errour and so besides that one is easier to be corrupted than many this power of one bringeth as great incōmoditie in keping them in error if they fall into it as in the truth if they are in it Io. Whitgifte This is as though you should saye that if a Monarchie be an excellent kynde of gouernment and in déede the best when the lawes rule and not man as Aristotle sayth then also is it the worste when affection ruleth and not the lawe which is true for that is the worst state of gouernment which is opposed to the beste But if you will therefore conclude that a Monarchie is not the best state your argument hath no reason in it euen so is it in the gouernment of the Churche if the chéefe gouernour thereof should follow his owne appetite and be ruled by his priuate affections but it is farre otherwise when he ruleth according to the lawes wherevnto he himselfe is subiect Chap. 3. the. 31. Diuision T. C. Pag 81. Sect. 4. Morouer if it be necessary for the keping of vnitie in the Church of England that one Archbishop should be primate ouer all why is it not as meete that for the keping of the whole vniuersall Churche there should be one Archbishop or Byshop ouer all and the like necessitie of the byshop ouer A popish reason all Christendome as of the byshop of all England vnlesse peraduenture it be more necessary that there should be one byshop ouer the vniuersall Church than ouer the Church of England for as much as it is more necessarie that peace should be kept and schismes be auoyded in the vniuersall Church than in the particular church of England Io. Whitgifte This is the reason of the Papistes for the Popes supremacie and you haue borowed The reasons serue not for the Pope that serue for the Archbishop Caluine it from them Wherefore I will answere you as M. Caluine answereth them in his Institutions Cap. 8. Sect. 95. That which is profitable in one nation cannot by any reason be extended to the whole worlde for there is great difference betwixt the whole world and one nation And a little after it is euen as though a man should affirme that the whole world may be gouerned by one King bycause one fielde or towne hath but one ruler or Mayster And agayne that which is of force among fewe may not by and by be drawne to the whole worlde to the gouernment whereof no one man is sufficient M. Nowell also answereth Dorman making the same reason that you doe in these M. Nowell lib. 3. fol. 321. woordes To your third question sayeth he speaking to Dorman the lewdest of all why the same proportion may not be kepte betweene the Pope and the reste of the Byshops of Christendome that is betweene the Archbishop and the other Bishops of the prouince I answere you might as well aske why the same proportion may not be kepte betweene one Emperour of all the worlde and all the Princes of the worlde to be vnder him that is betweene the King of one realme and his Lordes vnder him The reason that the same proportion can not be kept is first bycause there is no lyke proportion at all betweene the abilitie of mans witte and power being but weake to gouerne one prouince and his abilitie to gouerne the whole Churche and all Churches throughout the worlde which no one man can haue knowledge of much lesse can haue abilitie to rule them Secondly you can bring no
same booke quoted in like manner but let it be of ignorance you take occasion by it to vtter your cynicall 〈◊〉 but to your owne shame The place alledged maketh much for my purpose for it proueth superioritie to haue 〈◊〉 among the Apostles and therefore that it may be among ministers which you denie ▪ and I affirme which also being graunted as it cannot be denyed whatsoeuer I affirme eyther of Archbyshops or Byshops will soone be proned But let vs heare the proofe of this new deuise of yours in soluting this and such like places that one ruled the action c. Chap. 3. the. 44. Diuision T. C. Page 84. Sect. 3. And that it may appeare what superioritie it is whiche is lawfull amongst the ministers and what it is that M. Caluine speaketh of what also the fathers and councels do meane when they giue more to the Byshop of any one Church than to the elder of the same Church and that no man be deceiued by the name of gouernoure or ruler ouer the rest to fansic any such authoritie and domination or Lordship as we see vsed in our Church it is to be vnderstanded that amongst the pastors elders and beacons of euery particular Church and in the meetings and companies of the ministers or elders of diuers Churches (*) This is a deuise neuer hard or before there was one chosen by the voyces aud suffrages of them all or the most pare which did propound the matters that were to be handied whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishments and censures to be decreed vpon those which had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter soeuer occasion was gyuen to entreate of the which also gathered the voyces and reasons of those which had interest to speake in such cases which also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces whiche were gyuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonish or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receule admonishment consolation or rebuke and which in a word did moderate that whole action which was done for the time they were assembled Which thing we do not denie may be but affirme that it is fitte and necessary to be to the auoyding of confusion Io. Whitgifte All this is spoken of your owne head and a deuise withoute proofe or reason as yet and contrary to the testimonies of all histories Councels and fathers affirmed by no learned writer as it may appeare by that whiche I haue hitherto alledged out of the canons attributed to the Apostles the Councel also of Nice Antioch Arelat Carthage Calcedon likewise out of Cyprian Eusebius Epiphanius Athanasius Gregory Nazian Ambrose Ierome Socrates Sozom. Theodoret Caluin Illiricus All whiche manifestly declare that the office of an Archbyshop and iurisdiction of a Byshop is permanent and affixed to certayne places not moueable nor during one action only And vndoubtedly I maruayle what vrgeth you to such absurd and vnlearned paradoxes vnlesse it be ignorance and lacke of reading But let vs heare your reasons Chap. 3. the. 45. Diuision T. C. Pag. 84. Sect. 3. For it were an absurd hearing that many should at once attempt to speake Neyther coulde it A needlesse proofe be done without great reproch that many men beginning to speake some should be bidden to holde their peace which would come to passe if there should be no order kept nor none to appoint when euery one should speake or not to put them to silence when they attempted confusedly to speake and out of order Moreouer when many ministers meete togyther and in so great diuersitie of gifts as the Lord hath giuen to his Church there be found that excell in memorie facilitie of tongue and expedition or quicknesse to dispatch matters more than the rest and therefore it is fitte that the brethren that haue that dexteritie should especially be preferred vnto this office that the action may be the better and more speedily made an end of Io. Whitgifte Surely and your deuise of saluing it is as absurd for there would be as great contention at such elections as there is confusion in the former equalitie and the rather bycause there is none to direct them therein For who shall call them togyther before this election be made where shall they meete who shall declare vnto them the cause of their meeting or what remedie if they cannot agrée of some one that hathe thys dexteritie but are drawen into diuers parts some thinking one most meete and some another other some the third c how if there be sects and schismes among them as there is at this time an hundreth inconueniences are there in this deuise of yours and to tell you the truth it may be vsed in places where there is no gouernment no lawes no forme of a common wealth no order But in a kingdome in a Church vnd r ciuill gouernment in a place of order c. it is the very high way to subuersion and confusion Chap. 3. the. 46. Diuision T. C. Pag. 85. Sect. 1. And if any man will call this (*) And what scripture hau you for this ▪ a rule or presidentship and him that executeth this office president or moderator or a gouernour we will not striue so that it be with these cautions that he be not called simply gouernour or moderator but gouernour or moderator of that action and for that time and subiect to the orders that others be and to be censured by the company of the brethren as well as others if he be iudged any way faultie And that after that action ended and meeting dissolued he sit him downe in his old place and set himselfe in equall estate with the rest of the ministers Thirdly that this gouernment or presidentship or whatsoeuer like name you will gyue it be not so tyed vnto that minister but that at the next meeting it shall be lawfull to take another if another be thought meeter Io. Whitgifte These cautions are méete for such a deuise and apt for a tumultuous company and a congregation of proude and arrogant persons that cannot abide any superioritie or gouernment This I am well assured of and it is euident both by that which is already spoken and that which is to be said herea ter that there can neyther patterne nor Byshops gouernours simply not of one action only forme be found of it in any Church since the Apostles time recorded in any writer of credite but the cleane contrary for ecclesiasticall writers do both cal Byshops gouernours simply and manifestly also declare that their office of gouernment was not for one action only but during their life or at the least during their continuance in that seate or byshopricke ▪ and it is playne by that which I haue sayd before that the office of the Metropolitane which was to call Synods and to moderate them to ordeyne The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ixed
now to be alleaged but howe discretely by examination it will appeare The words of the Apostle to the Galat. 2. verse 6. be these And of them vvhich seemed to be great I vvas not taughte vvhat they vvere in tyme passed it maketh no matter to me God accepteth no mans person neuerthelesse they that are the chiefe dyd communicate nothing vvith me The Apostle in these wordes doth declare that he receyued not the Gospell which he preached of men no not of the Apostles but of Iesus Christ and that the Gospell preached by him oughte to be no lesse credited than the Gospell preached by them So that in those wordes he declareth that the truthe of the doctrine dothe not depende of any mans person He speaketh nothyng agaynst superioritie quoad ordinem concâ—rning order but dothe rather acknowledge it for he sayth they that are the chiefe c. But it is true that Master Caluine noteth on thys place Hic non est certamen ambitionis quia nequaquam de personis agitur The contention is not for ambition for it is not vnderstanded of the persons Nowe I praye you consider this argument Paule receyued the Gospell that he preached not of the Apostles but of Christ or the Gospell preached by Paule is equiualent with the Gospell preached by other of the Apostles therefore the names of Archbyshops Archdeacons c. are drawne out of the Popes shop together wyth their offices or this Paule sayth that they that were the chiefe did coÌ„municate nothing with him Ergo the names and offices of Archbyshops be taken out of the Popes shop T. C. Pag 100. Sect. 4. And in the. 207. page vnto the middest of the. 214. page this matter is agayne handled where firste M. Doctor woulde drawe the place of Galatians the seconde (*) This is an vntruth for it is only proued that the place is not against the Archbishop c to proue an Archbyshop and that by a (a) Here you rashely accuse the translation of the Bible printed at Geneua and others false translation for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is they that seemed or appeared he hath translated they that are the chiefe and although the place of the Galatians maye be thought of some not so pregnant nor so full against the Archbyshop yet all must needes confesse that it maketh more agaynst hym than for him For Saynt Paules purpose is to proue there that he was not inferior to any of the Apostles and bringeth one argument thereof that he had not his Gospell from them but from Christe immediately and therefore if the Apostles that were esteemed moste of and supposed by the Galatians and others to be the chiefe had no superioritie ouer S. Paule but were equall wyth him it followeth that there was none that had rule ouer the reste And if there needed no one of the Apostles to be ruler ouer the reste there seemeth to be no neede that one Byshop shoulde rule ouer the rest Io. Whitgifte I haue set downe the words of the Apostle as they be translated in the English Bible printed at Geneua not altering one title and therefore if there be any falsehood in the translation it is in that Bible not in me How truely you haue translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 translated Beza saying it signifieth they that seemed or appeared let the Reader iudge after he hath considered these wordes of M. Beza vpon the same worde ad Galat. 2. verse 2. with those that are of reputation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those which are well estemed of the contrarie whereof are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they which are without renowne or estimatioÌ„ the coÌ„mon translatioÌ„ hath which semed to be some thing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is coÌ„trarie to al our bokes vnto Ieromes interpretatioÌ„ also For thus he writeth which thing Erasmus also dothe well note I did very carefully search saith he what that should be that he said qui videbaÌ„tur they which semed but he hath takeÌ„ away al doubt in that he addeth Qui videbaÌ„tur esse colunmae they which were accouÌ„ted to be pillers Hetherto Hierom wherby he doth euidently declare that he had not read in this place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But in such sort notwithstanding that he seemeth not to haue knowne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to haue bene called of the Grecians absolutely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is those who are of great estimation with all men And this ignorance of the Greke tong as I thinke was the cause that the olde interpreter being more bolder than Hierom did adde aliquid esse And Erasmus in his annotations Erasmus vpon the same place agréeth with M. Beza herein 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 absolut dicuntur Graecis qui magnae sunt aut oritatis they which are of great authoritie are of the Grecians absolutely called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Budeus also saith that the Apostle in this place taketh thys woorde Bude s. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And both M. Beza himselfe and Erasmus translate it as it is in the Geneua Bible Wherefore here your cunning faileth you and you had not well considered the matter before you entred this accusation of falsifying The true sense and meaning of this place to the Galat. I haue set downe in my Answere and it is according to the interpretation of the best writers iustified by the words of M. Caluine there alleaged and not confuted by you Wherfore the conclusion remaineth as it did That there was superioritie among the Apostles ordinis politiae causa I haue shewed before This place to the Galatians is not brought in by me to proue the authoritie of the Archbyshop although it might well be alleaged to proue degrées of honour in the ministerie but it is quoted in the Admonition fondly and foolishely to proue that the names of Archbishops Archdeacons Lordbishops c. are drawne out of the Popes shoppe together with their offices And of this dalying with the Scriptures you speake not one worde for you care not howe they be profaned so it be for the maintenance of your owne cause Chap. 6. the. 11. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 208. Sect. vlt. The wordes in the. 5. to the Hebrues verse 4. be these And no man taketh this honor to himself but he that is called of God as AaroÌ„ vvas The Apostle here sheweth that Christe was a lawfull Priest bycause he was therevnto called by God as Aaron was What is this to Archbishops c This place teacheth that no man ought to intrude hymselfe Weake argument s. to any function except he be there vnto called by God But what maketh this against any lawfull function or authoritie or what conclusion call you this Christ did not take vnto him that office whervnto he was not called or no man muste take vpon him that whervnto he is not called
sacrifices and so had they The Gentiles in worshipping their Gods vsed externall pompe of garments of golden and siluer vessels and such like and so did they yea diuers learned men be of this iudgement that God did prescribe vnto the Israelites that solemne manner and forme of worshipping him by externall rites and ceremonies shortly after their returne out of Egypt that they being therewith not onely occupyed but also delighted should haue no desire to retourne into Egypt or to worship their Gods whome they had séene with great solemnitie of ceremonies and externall rites adored And therefore you ground your talke vpō false principles which you haue not proued but imagined Now if we may haue ceremonies common with them or like vnto them from whome we whollie differ in matter and substance of religion as we do from th Gentiles and from the Turkes muche more may we haue Ceremonies common with them or like vnto them from whome we do not wholly diff r in mat er and substance but in certaine materiall and substantiall points As for this your saying That it were better for vs to conforme our indifferent Ceremonies to the Turks which are farre off than to the Papists which are so neare I take it to be but spoken in a heate and that you will otherwise thinke when you haue better considered the matter the one being a professed enimie vnto Christ and the name of Christ the other pretending the contrary But to put you out of doubt we do not in any kinde of ceremonies conforme We conforme not our selues to the Papists in ceremonies Tit. 1. our selues to the Papists but vsing Christian libertie in externall thinges knowing that al things be cleane to those that be cleane such things as we find instituted by learned and godly men and profitable to the Church as perteyni g to e ifying or comelinesse and order though abused of the Papists we reteine in our Churches and restore to the right vse as our forefathers did the Temples of Idols turning Tract 7 cap 5 diuis 3. 4. them to Christian Churches and reuenewes consecrated to Idolls transposing them to find the ministers of the Church and such like as I haue declared in an other place Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 103. Sect. 1. Common reason also doth teach that contraries are cured by their contraries now Christianitie and Antichristianitie the Gospell poperie be contraries therfore Antichristianitie must be cured not by it selfe but by that which is as much as may be contrary vnto it Therefore a medled and mingled estate of the order of the Gospell and the ceremonies of poperie is not the best way to banish poperie and therefore as to abolish the infection of false doctrine of the Papists it is necessary to establish a diuers doctrine and to abolish the tyrannie of the popish gouernment necessary to plant the discipline of Christ so to heale the infection that hath crepte into mens minds by reason of the popish order of seruice it is meete that the other order were put in place thereof Io. Whitgifte Contraries must be cured by contraries in all things wherein they be contrary Christianitie How contraries must be cured by contraries and Antichristianitie the Gospell and poperie be not in all things cōtrary touching outward professiō and therfore no necessitie of abādoning all things frō Christianitie that was vsed in Antichristianitie So much of the papistical doctrine as is contrary to the Gospell that kind of gouernment in the Popes Church that is repugnant to the word of God all such order of seruice or kind of prayer as is vngodly and superstitious is to be remoued and cured with the contrary but as they haue some truth in doctrine so haue they some lawfull kind of gouernment and good and godly prayers all which being restored to their owne puritie are to be reteyned for no abuse can so defile any thing that is good that the same thing may not be vsed the abuse being taken away And yet if you would speake the truth you cannot say but that the order of the popish The order of popish seruice cleane altered in this church seruice is cleane altered in this Church for what similituds hath the vulgar tong with a tong vnknowne What likelihoode is there betwixt the multitude of ceremonies vsed by the Papists and the fewnes of such as are now reteyned How much doth the simplicitie vsed in our seruice differ from the pompe and gorgeousnesse vsed in theirs How contrary is our communion to their Masse What diuersitie is there in the celebration of our sacraments and theirs To be short the differēce is as much as eyther the worde of God or the state and condition of the Churche requireth the which you might sée if you were disposed but as I haue sayd before Caeca malitia non videt apertissima Blind malice seeth not those things that are most manifest Chap. 1. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 103 Sect. 1. Philosophie which is nothing else but reason teacheth that if a man will draw one from vice which is an extreame vnto vertue which is the meane that it is the best way to bring him as farre from that vice as may be and that it is safer and lesse harme for him to be led somewhat to farre than he should be suffered to remayne within the borders and confynes of that vice wherewith he i infected As if a man would bring a dronken man to sobrietie the best and neatest way is to cary him as farre from his excesse in drinke as may be and if a man coulde not keepe a meane it were better to fault in prescribing lesse than he should drinke than to faulte in giuing him more than he ought as we see to bring a sticke which is (*) A croked rule croked to be streight we do not only how it so farre vntill it come to be streight but we bend it so farre vntill we make it so croked of the other side as it was before of the first side to this end that at the last it may stand streight and as it were in the mid way betwene both the crokes which I do not therefore speake as though we ought to abolish one euill and hurtfull ceremonie for another but that I would shew how it is more daungerous for vs that haue bin plunged in the mire of Poperie to vse the ceremonies of it than of any other idolatrous and sperstitious seruice of God Io. Whitgifte The Replyer prescribeth a heathenish rule of retormation Rom. 3. Philosophie also teacheth that both the extreames be vices and therefore your rule dothe teache that a man must go from one vice to another if he will come to vertue whiche is a meane but Sainct Paule teacheth the contrary saying Non est faciendum malum vt inde veniat bonum VVe must not do euill that good may come thereof Wherefore as your rule is heathenish
and naught so do you as naughtily 〈◊〉 it Is there no way for the prodigall man to come to liberalitie but by 〈◊〉 no way for the glutton to come to temperance but by pyning himselfe no way for t e 〈◊〉 person to come to the true feare and loue of God but by des eration 〈◊〉 way to come rom poperie to the Gospell but by confusion and 〈◊〉 of all good ord r and gouernment Is this diuinitie In déede uch 〈◊〉 it is that Aristotle a prophane Philosopher doth teach in his Ethikes but not that Chris and his 〈◊〉 do teach in the Gospell The ordinarie meanes whereby a Christian man must come from vice to vert e The ordinarie meanes to draw men from 〈◊〉 from an e treme to a meane is the diligent reading and hearing o the word of God ioyned with earnest and heartie prayers The best way therefore to bring a dronken man to sobrietie is not to perswade him to a superstitious kind of abstinence or fasting but to lay before him out of the word of God the horriblenes of that sinne and the punishment due vnto the same The similitude of a croked sticke is a t to set foorth so croked a precept but not so apt to make manifest the way vnto vertue But I may not blame you for vsing and allowing those prophane rules whiche you so aptly follow and so commonly practise in all your doings Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 103. Sect. 1. 2. This wisedome of not conforming it selfe vnto the ceremonies of the Idolaters in things indifferent hath the Church followed in times passed Tertullian sayth O sayth he better is the religion of the heathen for they vse no solemnitie of the Christians ▪ neyther the Lords day neyther the Pentecost and if they knew them they woulde Lib. de Ido latria haue nothing to do with them for they would be afrayd least they shoulde seeme Christians but we are not afraid to be called heathen Io. Whitgifte Tertullian in that place speaketh against such Christians as celebrated the feasts of the Gentiles togither with them remayning in their wicked abuse as it appeareth in the words that go before which are as followeth Nobis quibus sabbata extranea Lib. de Idolatria sunt neomenia feriae aliquādo a Deo dilectae Saturnalia lanuariae Brumae Matro ales frequentantur munera commeant strenae consonant lusus conuiuia constrepunt O melior fides nationum in suam sectam c. The feasts of Saturne of Ianus of Bacchus and of Iuno are frequented of vs vnto whome the sabbats new mones and holydays sometimes beloued of God are straunge gifts and presents are very ri e sportes and banquets keepe a sturre O better is the faith of the Gentiles in their sect c. Wherefore this saying of Tertullian may aptly be alledged against those that frequent the popish solemnities togither with them come to their Churches communicate with them in worshipping their idols and yet professe the knowledge of the Gospell but it can by no meanes be drawen vnto such as withdrawing themselues from suche kind of communicating with them do in their seuerall Churches vse those good things well which the Papists haue abused as the scripture the sacraments prayers and suche like Wherefore you do not well to alledge Tertullians words omitting the circumstances which declare his meaning A man being pr sent at Idolatrous seruice must néedes giue great suspition that he is an Idolater and therfore no man ought to be present at it which in heart condemneth it But as there is no honest and godly man which can call our seruice Idolatrous or Papisticall so is ther none that can suspect vs to be Idolaters or Papists The whole world knowing that both our practise and profession is to the contrary Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 103. Sect. 3. Euseb. lib. 3. cap. 17. Constantine the Emperoure speaking of the keeping of the feast of Easter saythe that it is an vnworthy thing to haue any thing common with that most spitefull companie of the Iewes And a little a ter he saith that it is most absurd and against reason that the Iewes shou de vaunt and glory that the Christians could not keepe those things without their doc rine And in another Socrat. li. cap. 9. place it is sayd after this sort It is conuement so to order the matter that we haue nothing common with that nation Io. Whitgifte Constantine speaketh of the feast of Easter which he would not haue obserued according to the manner of the Iewes and yet you know that the Churches in Asia following the examples of Philip and Iohn the Apostles and of Polycarpus and many other godly men did celebrate that feast togyther with the Iewes as it is to be seene in the fifth booke o Eusebius eccle history Wherfore the matter was not of so great Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 23. 24. 25. 26. importance before it was for quietnesse sake determined by the Churche neyther doth Constantine in eyther of the places meane that we should haue nothing common with the Iewes but only that we should haue no suche thinges common with them as are repugnant to Christian libertie or to the truth of the Gospell or such as may cō rme them in their obstinacie and error For if his meaning had bin generally and simply then mighte he haue vtterly abrogated the feast of Easter being no commaundement sor it in the new testament As therefore Cōstantine thought that the Churche had not the feast of Easter common with the Iewes not bycause the thing it selfe was abrogated but the ay altered Euen so the Churche of Englande cannot be said to haue any thing common with the P pisticall Church though it reteine something vsed in the same bycause the manner is changed and certayne circumstances altered or whereas before it was in a straunge tongue nowe it is in a tongue knowne and whereas it was before abused and mixt with superstition now it is rightly vsed and purged from all corruption And therefore although the thing remaine yet bycause the circumstances be altered it is not the same no more than our Sabbat is the Iewes Sabbat and our Easter the Iewes Easter Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision T. C. Pag. 103. Sect. 4. 5. 6. The Councels although they did not obserue themselues always in making of decrees thys rule yet haue kept this consideration continually in making their lawes that they woulde haue the Christians differ from others in their ceremonies The Co ncell of Laodicea which was afterward confirmed by the sixt generall Councell decreed Tom. 1. con Lao. can 38 that the Christians should not take vnleauened bread of the Iewes or communicate with their 〈◊〉 Also it was decreed in another Councell that they shoulde not decke their houses with bay 2. To. Braccar can 7 leaues and greene boughes because the Paganes did vse so
collected and approued If your particular reasons be no better a small confutation will serue Chap. 1. the. 11. Diuision T. C. Pag. 104. Sect. 1. Furthermore as the wisedome of God hath thought it the best way to keepe his people from infection of idolatrie to make them most vnlike the idolaters so hath the same wisedome of God thought good that to keepe his people in the vnitie of the truth there is no better way than that they should be most like one to another and that as much as possibly may be they should haue all the same ceremonies And therefore Sainct Paule to establish this order in the Churche of Corinth 1. Cor. 16. that they shoulde make their gat erings for the poore vpon the firste day of the Sabboth which is our Sunday alleadgeth this for a reason that he had so ordeyned in other Churches so th t as children of one father and scruantes of one family he will haue all the Churches not onely haue one dyet in that they haue one word but also weare as it were one liuerie in vsing the same ceremonies Io. Whitgifte You take vpon you to tell what the wisedome of God is withoute any warrante of gods word which is presumptiō I told you before that in outward shew and orme the Israelites had many things like vnto the Gentiles which cannot be denyed Unitie of Ceremonies is to be wished in all Churches though it be not so necessary for from the beginning there hath bin therein great varietie but s eing it is a thing so greatly to be desired why are you an occasion of the contrary why do you not submit your sel e to the Church that vnitie in all things may be obserued Chap. 1. the. 12. Diuision T. C. Pag. 104. Sect. 2. This rule did the great Councell of Nice follow when it ordeyned that where certaine at the Con. Nic. can 20. feast of Pentecost did pray kneeling that they should pray standing the reason whereof is added which is that one custome ought to be kept through out a the Churches It is true that the diuersitie of ceremonies ought not to cause the Churches to dissent one with another but yet it maketh much to the auoiding of dissention that there be amongst them an vnitie not only in doctrine but also in ceremonies Io. Whitgifte This is to be wished throughout the whole Church of Christ if it were possible but as i neuer was hitherto so will it not be as long as this 〈◊〉 lasteth and least it should be in this particular Church of Englande Sathan hathe stirred vp instruments to procure the contrarie wherfore in these words as I thinke you condemne your selfe and all other dis urbers of the Church for external rites and ceremonies Chap. 1. the. 13. Diuision T. C. Pag. 104. Sect. 2. Nowe we see playnly that as the forme of our seruice and Lyturgy commeth to neare that of the 〈◊〉 so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 farr different from that of other Churches reformed and therefore in both these respects to be amended Io. Whitgifte From what reformed Church doth it so far differ ▪ or to which reformed Churche would you haue it framed or why should not other reformed Churches as well frame them selues vnto vs for we are as well assured of our doctrine and haue as good grounds and reasons for our doing as they haue except you will bring in a newe Rome appoynt vnto vs an other head Church and crea e a newe Pope by whom we must be in all things directed and according to whose vsage we must rame our selues You knowe what M. Caluine sayth in the argument vpon the Epistle to the Galatians Calu. in argu in Epi. ad Gal. speaking of those that came from Ierusalem to other Churches Many were puffed vp sayth he with vaine glory bicause they were familiar with the Apostles or at the least were instructed in their schole Therfore nothing pleased them but that which they had seene at Ierusalem all other rites that were not there vsed they did not only refuse but A 〈◊〉 mischiefe boldly condemne Such a kinde of frovvardnesse is a most pestilent mischiefe vvhen as vve vvill haue the maner of on Church to be in place of an vniuersall lavve But this ariseth of a preposterous zeale wherby we are so affected towards Prepostrou zeale one master or place that without iudgement or 〈◊〉 we would binde all men and places vnto the opinion of one ma and vnto the 〈◊〉 of one place as vnto a common 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Idē in 15. rule Albeit there is alwayes mixed ambition yea rather alwayes too muche frowardnesse is ambitious The like saying he hath vpon the. 15. of the Actes Luke dothe not expresse by what affection these va lets were moued yet is it very like that a preposterous zeale was the cause that they set themselues agaynst Paule and Barnabas for there are frowarde Frowarde wittes wittes whome nothing but their owne can please They had seene at Ierusalem circumcision and other rites of the lawe to be obserued and whether soeuer they come they can abide no newe thing or diuers As if the example of one Churche dyd bynde all other Churches as vvith a certayn 〈◊〉 But althoughe suche men are led Ambition with a preposterous zeale to more tumults yet inwardly their ambition moueth them and a certayne kinde of contumacie pricketh them forwarde In the meane time Sa han hath that which he desireth that the mindes of the godly beeing darkned with the smoke and mists that he casteth can scant discerne blacke from white Therefore this mischiefe is first to be auoyded that none prescribe vnto other a lavve of their custome least the example of one Church be preiudiciall to the cōmon rule Then an other A necessari caution caution must be added least the estimation of mens persons do eyther hinder or obscure the searche and inquirie of the matter and cause For if Sathan do transforme himselfe into an Angell of light and if he oftentimes vsurpe with wicked 〈◊〉 the holy name of God what maruel is it if through the same wickednesse he delude with the names of godly mē M. Gualter also vpon these words 1. Cor. 14. An à vobis ser o Dei profectus est writeth Gualter i 1. Cor. 14. thus VVho can thinke their insolencie to be tollerable that vsurpe authoritie ouer all Churches and wil haue them seruilely to be subiect vnto them Therfore that which Paule here presently fayth to the Corinthians the selfesame may at this day with better right be spoken to the Romish Cleargie which will haue all men subiect to their lawes and say that it is necessary vnto saluation that all soules should be subiect to the Bishop of Rome Thes things may also be applyed agaynst those whiche compell euery man to sweare vnto the opinion of their master as though it were sinne neuer so little to disagree from those things which
cap. 5. sayth That it was the office of Pastors and Doctors generally Beza to dispense the worde and to pray vnder the whiche also we comprehend the administration of sacraments and the celebration of mariage according to the cōtinuall custome of the Church although deacons in these things oftentimes supplied the office of pastors And to proue this he quoteth 1. Cor. 1. verse 14. 15. c. and Ioh. 4. verse 2. So doe other learned men in like maner who also bring for their purpose that which is written Tim. 5. Qui bene praesunt presbyteri c. So that you may vnderstande that learned men be of this iudgement that some may be admitted to administer the sacraments which are not admitted to preache I knowe it to be true that there may be some appoynted to reade in the Churche whiche be not admitted eyther to preache or to administer the Sacramentes For so it was in the primitiue Churche as it is to be séene in auncient stories and wr ters But bicause you would haue nothing vsed in the Churche especially no office appoynted withoute a commaundement in the worde of GOD I praye you tell where you haue eyther commaundemente or example for suche kinde of Readers I doe but demaunde this that the Reader maye vnderstande what libertie you chalenge vnto your selfe of allowing and disalowing what you list and when you list without that warrant of Gods worde to the whiche you so streightly hinde all other Chap. 1. the. 16. Diuision T. C. Page 104. Sect. 4. Besyd s that how can they say that it is for want of sufficient ministers when as there be put out of the ministerie men that be able to serue God in that calling and those put in their roomes which are not able when there are numbers also which are fit to serue and neuer sought for nor once required to take any ministerie vpon them If therfore it were lawfull to pleade want of able ministers for this do be ministerie which is altogither vnlawfull yet would this plea neuer be good vntyll suche tyme as bothe those were restored whiche are put out and all other soughte oorth and called vpon which are fitte for that purpose Io. Whitgifte You know what was before alleaged out of the confession of the Churches of Helvetia that the harmlesse simplicitie of some shepheards in the olde Church did sometimes Confes. Heli more profite the Church than the great exquisite or fine or delicate but a little too proude learning of some others A great sorte thinke too well of themselues be of nature vnquiet Unquiet natures must be remoued suche of necessitie if by no meanes they can be kept in order must be remoued for the Church may not for their sake be rent torne in péeces neyther muste you that so wel allow of discipline burden other men with it cast it off your selues There is none in this Churche of Englande remoued from his ministerie but vpon iust causes and ministers must be subiect to lawes and orders Those that be willing to come into the ministerie lacke no prouoking nor mouing The ministerie hindred by whome thervnto if they be knowne but it is you your company which labour by all meanes possible to dehorte men from the ministerie persuading them that the calling is not ordinary and lawfull And surely your meaning is to make this Church destitute of ministers that it may of necessitie be driuen to admit your platforme and gouernment But you shall neuer be able to bring it to passe the more you labour the more you are detected And those wise men that séeke the truthe in sinceritie of conscience will espie your purposes dayly more and more and be moued to a iuste mis iking of them The restitution of those that be put out of the ministerie I think is soone obteyned if they will submit themselues to the order of the Church which they ought of duetie to doe bothe the lawes of God and man requiring the same Chap. 1. the. 17. Diuision T. C. Pag. 104. Sect. vlt. Agayne it can not be sayd iustly that they haue taken these reading ministers vntil such tyme as better may be gotten for if the Churche could procure able ministers shoulde desire that they myght be ordeyned ouer them they can not obteyne that considering that these reading ministers haue a free holde and an estate for terme of their lyues in those Churches of the whyche they are suche ministers so that by this meanes the sheepe are not onely committed to an Idoll shepheard I might say a wolfe and speake no otherwyse than Augustine speaketh in that a not preachyng minister hath entraunce into the Church but the doore also is shut vpon hym and sparred agaynst any able minister that might happily be founde out Io. Whitgifte And would you so gladly intrude your selues into some of their roomes surely I beléeue it it is not vnknowē but that some of you haue labored to do it Wel I hau before tolde you the iudgement of the reformed Churches touching such ministers as be not able to preach béeing otherwise vertuous and godly I haue also set downe the opinion of diuers learned and godly men concerning ministers admitted to minister the sacraments whiche notwithstanding can not preache If any man vse him sel e in his ministerie leau ly or otherwise than beseemeth him hys estate for terme of lyfe is not so sure but that he maye be dispossessed of the same Otherwyse if he vse him selfe honestly and as it becommeth him thoughe he haue not the gifte of preaching whiche notwithstanding is to be wyshed God forbid that eyther you or any man else shoulde seeke to displace him that you might enioy the roome your selues And surely if the minister were but tenant at will or of Courtesie as you would séeme to haue him his state shoulde be moste slauishe and mis rable and he and his family ready to goe a begging when soeuer he displeaseth his parishe If you had tolde me where Augustine speaketh that I shoulde haue quickely let you vnderstand his meaning but his bookes be many large the sentēce you alleage shorte and therefore it were to muche for me to search it out Moreouer it improueth nothing nowe in question But with what face can you loute and iest at me for once or twice not quoting the chapter or leafe your selfe so often offending in quoting neyther chapter leafe booke nor tome Chap. 1. the. 18. Diuision T. C. Page 105. Sect. 1. There is a third fault which likewise appeareth almost in y e whole body of this seruice Lyturgie of Englād that is that the pro ite which might haue come by it vnto the people is not reaped whereof the cause is for that he whiche readeth is not in some place hearde and in the moste places not vnderstanded of the people throughe the distance of place betweene the people and the minister so
learnedly and truly written agaynst the common aduersaries of this Booke among whome there is one that wrote a Booke Entituled A sparing restraynt of many lauishe vntruthes which M. Doctor Harding doth chalenge in the first Article of my Lorde of Sarisburies Replye The A sparing re trayne Author of that booke writeth thus O M. Harding turne agayne your writinges examino your authorities consider your Councels applie your examples looke if any line be blameable in our seruice and take holde of your aduantage I thinke M. Iewell will accept it for an Article And a little after Our seruice is good and godly euery title grounded on holy Scriptures and with what face do you call it darkenesse This was his opinion then of our seruice And it both was then and is now my full perswasion and I will God willing performe that against you which he offred in M. Jewell his name agaynst Harding Your othnesse to enter into this fielde is but dissembled your continuall barking The Repliet his wordes contrary to his deedes agaynst the state and forme of this Church of England doth conuince you of the contrarie Neyther haue you any respect or regarde for giuing occasion o euill speach to the Papistes much lesse of prouoking your adherentes to vnduetifull speaches as you pretend your booke tending wholly to the contrary Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 106. Sect. 3. Notwithstanding my dutie of defending the truth loue which I haue first towardes God and then towards my countrie constrayneth me being thus prouoked to speake a few wordes more particularly of the forme of prayer that when the blemishes thereof do appeare it may please the Queenes inaiestie hir honorable councell with those of the Parliament whom the Lorde hath vs o as singular instrumentes to d liuer this realme from the hote fornace and yron yoke of the popish Egipte to procure also that the corruptions which we haue brought from them as those with which we being so deepely died and stayned haue not so easily shaken of may be remoued from amongst vs to the ende that we beyng necrclicr both ioyned vnto the sinceritie of the gospell and the ollicie of other reformed Churches may thereby be ioyned nearer with the Lord and may be se te so farre from Rome that both we may comfort our selues in the hope that we shall neuer returne thither againe and our aduersaries which desire it and by this to much agreement with them and to little with the reformed Churches hope for it may not onely be deceyued of their expectation but also being out of all hope of that which they desire may the soner yeelde themselues vnto the truth wherevnto they are now disobedient Io. Whitgifte What dutie can there be in defacing a knowne and receaued truth what loue in flaundering your countrie vniustly and renting it in pieces with sectes and Schismes and prouoking the subiectes to haue mislikyng of their Magistrates and such as be placed in authoritie ouer them these be but clokes to couer an euill and vngodly purpose If you shall be able to shewe any suche blemishes in the booke of Common prayers they shall not be couered for me but if not than are you not a man to be credited I haue tolde you M. Caluines and M. Gualters opinion touching the ambitious Sup̄ra Cap. t e 13. Diuisi morositie of such as would haue all Churches framed after the example of some one and nowe I tell you agayne that there is no cause why this Churche of Englande eyther for truth of doctrine sinceritie of publike diuine seruice and other pollicie should giue place to any church in Christendome and sure I am that we are as 〈◊〉 ioyned with the Lorde our God as the members are to the bodie and the bodie to the head Our aduersaries haue o such hope vpon any suche occasion as you pretende if The aduersaries hope is in contention their hope be any it is especially in your contentions Wherein do we agrée with the Papistes or wherein do we dissent from the reformed Churches with these we haue all poynts of doctrine and substance common from the other we dissent in the most parte both of doctrine and ceremonies From what spirite come these bolde and vntrue speaches Chap. 2. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 106. Sect. 4. And as for the Papistes triumphe in this case I shall not greatly neede to feare it ▪ ring that their discordes and contentions are greater a d that our stryfe is 〈◊〉 we 〈◊〉 b arther from them For the other that professe the Gospell I will desire in the name of God that they abuse not my labour to other ende than I bestowe it and that they eepe hemselues in theyr callinges committe the matter by prayer vnto the Lorde leauing to the ministers of the worde of God and to the magistrates that which apperteyneth vnto them Io. Whitgifte It is true of the Papistes but they deale in their controuersies more circumspectly and warely though they dissent in matters of farre greater importaunce and in the chiefe poyntes of their owne Religion To the professours of the Gospell you giue better Councell than you haue taken your selfe and you shewe an example contrary to your wordes and therefore how shall they beléeue you But now to the matter for hitherto you haue vttered nothing but woordes Chap. 2. the. 8. Diuision T. C Pag. 106. Sect. vlt. To come therfore to touche this matter I answere that there is fault in the matter and fault in the forme In the matter for that there are things there that ought not to be and things there are wanting in the order that should be Of the firste sorte is that we may euermore be defended The collect of Trinitie Sunday from all aduersitie Io. Whitgifte The first fault that you finde in the matter of prayer is a portion of the Collect of Trinitie Sunday wherein we pray That we may euermore be defended from al aduersitie And is this the matter you mislike let vs then consider your reason Chap. 2. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Pag. 107. Sect. 1. Nowe for as much as there is no promise in the scripture that we should be free from all ad ersitie and that euermore it scemeth that this prayer might haue bene better conceyued being no prayer of faith or of the which we cā assure our selues that we shal obteyne it For if it be sayd that y the worde aduersitie is meante all euill we knowe that it hath no such signification neyther in this tongue of oures neyther in other tongues which vse the same worde in common with vs but that it signifieth trouble vexation and cala tie from all the which we may not desire alwayes to be deliuared And whatsoeuer can be alleaged for the defense of it yet euery one that is not contentio s may see that it needeth some caution or exception Io. Whitgifte I thinke no man will
thinges we praye for tende to the glo ie of God who is the authour and giuer of all thinges both eternall and temporal Things that are to be prayed for are of two sortes the o e temporall the other eternall but they both perteyne to the glorie of God though not equally and in lyke manner The wyse man sayeth in the dayes of prosperitie thinke of aduersitie c. Christe Math. 24. forewarning his disciples of the external afflictions and euils which should Prayers be daunger happen as well before the destruction of Ierusalem as the ende of the worlde willeth E cle 11. them to praye before the daunger be present saying Praye that your flight bee not in wynter nor vpon the sabbath and will you not ha e vs to praye for deliueraun e from Math. 24. such perilles and daungers wherevnto we be subiect except they be present shall we not praye to be deliuered from thundering lightening stormeand tempest plague and pestilence and such like except we be in manifest perill and daunger these things beyng in Gods handes to punishe vs with euen in a moment and when we thinke it moste vnlike haue we not sundrie examples of such as haue sodenly perished with thundering and lightening and some sithence the publishing of your booke what scripture The presum tion of the Re plier haue you or authoritie of any learned man to the contrarie wyll you be credited vpyour bare worde against so many graue learned wyse and godly men that ad the penning and allowing of that booke surely that were against all order and reason and it is to great presumption for you with so light and slender reasons to go aboute the ouerthrowe of that which so many godly and learned men haue both liked and allowed except they had allowed that which the scriptures do disalowe Chap. 2. the. 12. Diuision T. C. Pag. 107. Sect. 3. There was one Mamereus bishop of Vienna which in the tyme of great earthquakes which wer Plat. cap. Leo. in Fraunce instituted certayne supplications which the Grecians and we of them call the Letany which concerned that matter there is no doubt but as other discommodities rose in other countries they lykewyse had prayers accordingly Nowe pope Gregor e either made hymselfe or gathered the su plications that were made against the calamities of euery countrey and made of them a great Letany or supplication as Platina calleth it gaue it to be vsed in all churches which thyng albeit all churches might do for the tyme in respect of the case of the calamitie which the churches suffered yet there is no cause why it should be perpetuall that was ordeyned but for a tyme and why all landes should praye to be deliuered from the incommodities that some lande hath vin troubled with Io. Whitgifte As though we were not at all times subiect to these perilles and daungers and as though we ought not by the calamitie of other nations to be moued earnestly to pray against the like which might also happen to vs. It is not to be doubted but that the prayer of the iuste is acceptable to God and that of his mercy he beyng thereby moued doth stay from plaguing vs with earthquakes thundring and lightenyng and such like calamities wherewith he would otherwise punish vs. Truly your reasons be maruelous prophane and they might as well be alleaged The reason vsed agaynst the Letanie is of the same force agaynst the psalmes agaynst any of the Psalmes which all were made at the first vpon some speciall occasion and yet are profitable for euer in all states of the Churche to be vsed Whatsoeuer good and godly prayer in the time of any common miserie and calamitie hath bene inuented the same is at other times profitable to be vsed in the Church bycause the like punishments and plagues are in Gods handes at all times to execute vpon sinners and therefore continually to be prayed agaynst Chap. 2. the. 13. Diuision T. C. Pag. 107. Sect. 4. The lyke may be sayde of the Gloria patri and the Athanasius Creede it was fyrst brought into the Churche to the inde that men thereby ▪ should make an open profession in the Churche of the diuinitie of the sonne of God agaynst the detestable opinion of Arius and his Disciples wherwith at that tyme maruelously swarmed almost the whole Christendome (*) A weake reason nowe that it hath pleased the Lorde to quench that fyre there is no such cause why these thinges shoulde be in the Church at the least why that Gloria patri should be so often repeated Io. Whitgifte Euen as conuenient now as it was then for it is as necessarie to maynteyne The manifestation and maintenance of truth as necessary as the suppressiō of errours truth and make it knowne as it is to suppresse errours and yet it is not vnknowne that euen in our dayes and in this Churche there haue bene Arians and I praye God there be none still I much suspect the matter not well vnderstanding wherevnto those glances of yours at Gloria patri ▪ and Athanasius Creede do tende Gloria patri besides that it conteyneth a briefe confession of the Trinitie and of the Diuinitie of Gloria patri Iesus Christe it is a magnifying and glorifying of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost thrée persons and one God and Athanasius creede is not onely an excellent Athanasius Creede confutation of Arius heresie but a playne declaration of the mysterie of the Trinitie such as is necessary for all Christian men to learne and know and therefore he that is offended with the ofte repetition or saying of eyther of them I cannot tell what I should iudge of him But vndoubtedly there is greate cause why I should suspect him at the leaste of singularitie and vnquietnesse Shall we not oftentymes rehearse the Articles of our beliefe in God the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghoste bycause all menne be now perswaded therein and none knowne that maketh any doubte the reason is all one and preuayleth as well agaynst the repeating of this as of the other I thinke your meaning is that we know to muche and therefore now we must learne to forget Well your authoritie is little and your reasons much lesse and therefore they are lyke to stande in Statu quo and this is moste sure that harme they do none but much good bycause a good thing cannot be to ofte sayde or hearde Chap. 2. the. 14. Diuision T. C. Pag. 107. Sect. vlt. Moreouer to make Benedictus Magnificat and Nunc dimittis ordinarie and dayly prayers seemeth to be a thing not so conuenient considering that they do no more concerne vs than all other scriptures do and than doth the Aue Maria as they called it For although they were prayers of thankes giuing in Simeon Zacharie and the blessed virgin Mary yet can they not be so in vs which haue not receiued like
(b) These examples proue not the purpose Noah which was a preacher vnto the olde worlde of the will of God was ordeyned also of God to make the Arke whiche was a Sacramente and seale of his preachyng touchyng the destruction of the worlde And (b) These examples proue not the purpose Abraham whom the Lorde would haue to be the Doctour of his churche whiche was then in his familie was also commaunded to minister the Sacrament of circumcision vnto his familie The (b) These examples proue not the purpose Priestes and Leuites whiche were appoynted to teache the people were also appoynted to sacrifice and to minister other sacramentes in the Church Lykewise the same Prophets which God stirred vp to preach he also ordeyned to confirme the same by signes Sacraments The (b) These examples proue not the purpose same may be also drawne throughout the new Testament as vnto euery of the twelue and afterwarde to the seuentie power was giuen bothe to preache the Gospell and also to confirme wyth signes and miracles whiche were seales of their Doctrine And (b) These examples proue not the purpose Sainct Paule by the commaundement that our Sauiour Christe gaue hym to preache vndertooke also to baptise although there were no expresse woordes that licenced him therevnto for hee knewe right well that it was the perpetuall ordinaunce of God that the same shoulde bee the ministers of the worde and Sacramentes Wherevpon it followeth that forasmuche as women maye not prcache the Gospell no not by the lawes of the realine that they ought not to minister Baptisme Io. Whitgifte My reason alleadged in my Answere to the Admonition why this place doth not make any necessarie conclusion agaynst the baptizyng by Women is not answered but there is a newe collection made of the same place whyche is of as great force as the other for you myght as well conclude thus Ergo Pastors maye not preache bycause Pastours bée not Apostles I speake of the Argumente not of the thyng For I woulde not haue the Scriptures abused to confirme no not a truthe least it make men the bolder to wreast them at their pleasure and for the confirming of errour M. Zuinglius in hys booke De Baptisme sayth that Christe did Zuinglius not in this place of Mathewe institute baptisme nor prescribe eyther tyme place or any other circumstance perteyning to the same I haue proued before that the administration of the Sacraments may bée committed to some to whome the publike preachyng of the worde is not committed and youre examples here alleadged doe not proue the contrarie excepte you wyll Tract 9. ca. 1. sect 15. haue vs to grounde poyntes of doctrine vppon bare examples whych if we should doe many inconueniences would followe yea euen baptizyng by women whiche you so greately mislyke A facto ad ius or à non facto ad non ius bée the vsuall reasons of the Anabaptistes but of no force The example of Noah helpeth you not except you will either allegorie or proue y t the minister of the worde may make Sacramēts bicause Noah made the Arke 〈◊〉 Arke can not be proprely termed a sacrament in y t signification y t ours be for it had no promise of eternal life annexed vnto it neither was it any seale of gods promise but a meanes to saue Noah and his family from perishing by the waters and a tipe and figure of the Church of Christ as you haue before confessed Pag. 63. Sect. 1 Your examples which follow although some of them be very vnapt for miracles be no sacraments neyther yet euery kind of signes and wonders may as examples T. C. omitting the purpose proueth that which is not denied shewe that the administration of the sacramentes was committed to suche as were preachers of the word But they cannot proue that it was onely committed vnto them and to no other It is not required of you to proue whither he that maye preach may also administer the sacraments but whither it be of necessitie that none shoulde be admitted to minister the sacraments except the same also be admitted to preach the contrary whereof I haue shewed before Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 80. Sect. 1. The second place you do alleadge is 1. Cor. 14. where Paule sayth it is a shame for Women to speake in the congregation Paule saith not it is a shame for women to speake at home in priuate houses for women may instruct their families yea and they may speake also in the Congregation in tyme of necessitie if there be none else there that can or wyll preache Chryste and hereof we haue examples T. C. Pag. 110. Lin. 13. Sect. 1. But M. Doctor riseth vp and saith that a woman in time of necessitie and where there is none other that eyther can or will preache maye preache the Gospell in the Church This is straunge doctrine and such as strengtheneth the Anabaptists hands and sauoureth stronger that ways than any one thing in all the Admonition which is so often condemned of Anabaptisme His first reason to proue it is that there are examples thereof When we alleadge the examples (a) How vayne this bragge is hath bin shewed Tract 3. of all the churches of the Apostles times to proue the election of the minister by the Churche and in other cases which are generall examples approued and executed by the Apostles contrary to no commaundement nor institution of God yea and as hath bin proued according to the commaundement of God M. Doctor gyueth vs our answer in a worde that examples proue not now that the question is to make good womens preaching in the Church examples I will not say of all churches but of no one Church only of a few singular persons not according to the 1. Cor. 14. 1. Tim. 2. commaundement of the word of God but cleane contrary to the prescript word of God I say now examples and such singular examples are good proofes and strong arguments Io. Whitgifte In what poynt doth he strengthen the Anabaptists If you coulde haue told I trust it should not haue bin kept in silence I haue charged the Authors of the Admonition with nothing but I haue shewed my author for it deale you with me in like manner and spare not otherwise your wordes do but sauoure choler Examples withoute What force is in exāples preceptes make no generall or necessary rule but they sometimes declare what was done and what may be done extraordinarily vpon like occasion and the same circumstances if they be commendable examples Women were the first that preached Christes resurrection A woman was the Math. 28. first that preached Christ in Samaria Io. 4. and yet vndoutedly none of these dyd Io. 20. contrary to the prescript word of God Women may not speake ordinarily in the Io. 4. congregation nor chalenge any suche function vnto themselues but vpon
men in the time of necessitie maye baptise whiche bothe are denyed by you without any kinde of proofe I haue also showed howe that the necessitie of baptising Infants is vehemently defended of those that be not of S. Augustines iudgement touching their damnation if they he not baptized and I haue set downe their wordes whiche conteyne their reasons Last of all I haue put you to proue that Priuate baptisme in time of necessitie is agaynst any comma dement or institution of Christs for I denie it So that notwithstanding I suspende my iudgement for baptizing by women yet I am oute o doubt for priuate baptisme ¶ Of priuate Communion wherwith the Admonition chargeth the booke of Common prayer Chap. 6. the. 1. Diuision Admonition Nowe they are bounde to the booke of Common prayer in which a great number of thinges contrary to the worde of God are conteyeed c. as (k) 1. Cor. 11. 18. priuate Communion c. Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 81. Sect. 1. 2. I knowe not what you meane by priuate Communion if you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 meane the receyuing of one alone there is none suche allowed in the booke if you meane bicause it is ministred sometime vpon occasion in priuate houses I see not howe you can call it priuate in respect of the place if the number of Communicants be sufficient You must explicate your selfe before I can tell what you meane There is nothing in the communion booke touching the Communion contrarie to the place of S. Paule by you quoted to my 1. Cor. 11. knowledge T. C. Page 105. Sect. 1. There followeth the priuate Communion whiche is founde faulte with bothe for the place wherein it is ministred and for the small number of Communicants whiche are admitted by the booke of seruice Touching the place before is spoken sufficiently it resteth to consider of the number But before I come to that I wil speake something of the causes and beginning of receyuing in houses and of the ministring of the Communion vnto sicke folkes It is not to be denyed but that this abuse is very ancient and was in Iustine Martyrs time in Tertullians and Cyprians tyme euen as also there were other abuses crepte into the Supper of the Lorde and that very grosse as the mingling of water wyth wyne and therein also a necessitie and great mysterie placed as it may appeare bothe by Iustine Martyr and Cyprian whyche I therfore by the waye doe admonishe the Reader of that the antiquitie of this abuse of priuate Communion be not preiudiciall to the truthe no more than the mingling of water with that opinion of necessitie that those fathers had of it is or ought to be preiudiciall to that that we vse in ministring the cuppe wyth pure wyne according to the institution Io. Whitgifte This is your accustomed maner but it is besides all good maners to wype away The vsuall answering of T. C. auncient and learned authoritie by obiecting vnto the authors some imperfection in their writings or errours in their times Is this a good reason water was of necessitie required in Cypryans time in the administration of the supper and that was an errour therefore the communion at that tyme and long before ministred vnto the sicke and carried to priuate persons béeing absent was vnlawfull Suche be your arguments and this is your kinde of answering which maye be plausible to the ignorant people but nothing pleasaunt to suche as be learned This one thing More sinceritie in the mi nistratiō now than in the auncient Churche I will desire the Reader to consider that séeing our sacraments nowe be more sincerely ministred than they were in Iustines Tertullians and Cyprians tyme béeing so neare the Apostles what cause there should be for you so bitterly to inu ygh agaynst this Church in that respect Chap. 6. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Pag. 115. tovvardes the ende I say therfore that this abuse was auncient and rose vpon these causes First of all in the primitiue Churche the discipline of the Churche was so seuere and so extreme that if any whiche professed the truthe and were of the body of the Churche dyd through infyrmitie denic the truthe and ioyned hymselfe vnto the Idolatrous seruice althoughe he repenting came agayne vnto the Church yet was he not receyued to the cōmunion of the Lords supper any more And yet lying in extremitie of sicknesse and ready to depart this lyfe if they dyd require the Communion in token that the Church had forgiuen the fault and was reconciled altogither vnto that person that had so fallen they graunted that he might be partaker of it as may appeare by the (*) Euscb. li. 6. cap. 4 story of Serapton Io. Whitgifte All this is true for sometime they had thrée sixe or ten yeres space of repentance before they were admitted to the sacrament and after that tyme was expired they came as other dyd to the Communion if they liued to it if not they receyued it on their death bedde This is for my purpose for it manifestly declareth that then the Communion was ministred vnto the sicke whiche is our question it can by no meanes be drawne agaynst me Chap. 6. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Page 116. Lin. 2. An other cause was that whyche was before alleaged which is the false opinion whych they had conceyued that all those were condemned that receyued not the supper of the Lorde and therfore when as those that were as they called them Cathecumeni whych is yong Nouices in religion neuer admitted to the supper or yong chyldren fell sicke daungerously they ministred the supper of the Lord vnto them least they should want their voyage victuall as they termed it which abuse notwithstanding was neyther so auncient as the other nor so generall Io. Whitgifte This was the cause that moued some so to doe howbeit neyther was it the onely cause neyther the generall and vsuall cause but the generall and vsuall cause was the institution of Christe and the fruites and effectes of that Supper the whiche whosoeuer dothe consider accordingly will neyther cease from requiring it in tyme of extremitie neyther withholde it from suche as faythfully and earnestly desire the same and it is an easie matter to shewe that this manner of communicating in priuate families is of very great antiquitie euen in Iustinus Martyrs time as appeareth in his seconde Apologie and is by you confessed Chap. 6. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 116. Lin. 8. And there wanted not good men whiche declared their misliking and dyd decree agaynst both the abuses and agaynst all manner communicating in priuate houses As in the Councell of (*) Tom. 1. n. 58. Laodicea it was ordeyned that neyther Byshop nor Elder shoulde make any oblation that was minister any Communion in houses Io. Whitgifte This Councell dothe speake agaynst the vsuall manner of celebrating the Communion in priuate houses without any respect of necessitie whiche
abuse was growen in some places in the tyme of Hierome and Damasus about whose time thys The Cōmuniō ministred to the sicke Councell was but there is neyther Councell nor learned Father that euer opened their mouthes agaynst ministring the Communion to the sicke in pryuate families or vpon any other vrgente or necessarie occasion The (*) In the Greeke it is the. 13. Canon 12. Canon of the Councell of Nice dothe determine directly that the Communion oughte to be ministred to the sicke Chap. 6. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 116. Lin. 12. Besides therefore that I haue before shewed the vnlawfulnesse generally of ministring the Sacrament in priuate places seeing that the custome of ministring thys Supper vnto the sicke rose vpon corrupte causes and rotten foundations and consydering also God be praysed in these tymes there are non dryuen by feare to renounce the truthe wherevpon any suche excommunication should ensue which in the extremitie of sicknesse should be mitigated after thys sorte for no man nowe that is in extreme sicknesse is cast downe or else assaulted with this temptation that he is cutte off from the Churche I saye these things considered it followeth that this ministring of Communion in priuate houses and to the sicke is vnlawfull as that whiche rose vpon euill grounds and if it were lawfull yet that nowe in these times of peace and when the sicke are not excōmunicated there is no vse of it And so it appeareth how little the custome of the olde Church dothe helpe M. Doctor in this poynt Io. Whitgifte This was one cause but not the only cause why the Communion was ministred to the sicke the chiefe and principall cause was as I haue sayde the frutes and effectes of that Sacrament whiche is remission of sinnes peace of conscience and effectuall applying of the death and passion of Christ vnto the Communicants and an assurance of Gods promises whereof that sacrament is an effectuall seale Chap. 6. the. 6. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 81. Sect. 3. The Communion exhibited vnto sicke persons is allowed bothe Sick persons receyue the communion of Peter Martyr and Bucer as in the other treatise I haue declared and consonant to the custome of Christes Churche euen from the Apostles time as is to be seene in the olde writers T. C. Page 116. Sect. 1. And as for that he sayth Peter Martyr and Bucer do allowé the Communion exhibited to the sicke persons when he sheweth that he shal haue answere For where he sayth he hath declared it in an other treatise eyther the Printer hath left out that treatise or M. Doctor wonderfully forgetteth him selfe or else he meaneth some odde thing that he hath written and layed vp in some corner of his studie for surely there is no suche saying in all his booke before nor yet after as farre as I can finde M. Bucer in his Censures vpon the Communion booke speaking of this parte of Bucer it sayth thus And those thinges whiche are commaunded in this behalfe doe well inoughe agree with the holye Scriptures for to receyue the Communion of the Lorde and to be partaker of hys Table dothe not a little auayle vnto the comforte of afflicted consciences if it be receyued according to the Lords institution M. Martyrs allowing of the same is added in that place M. Musculus in his Common places Titul de coena Domini saythe that Priuata Musculus extrema aegrotantium communio c. Priuate and last communion ministred to the sicke is reteyned in dyuers reformed Churches for this ende that the sicke persons thereby maye be strengthned in fayth made stronger agaynst the temptations of Sathan and the better armed to beare the paynes of death Neyther doe I sée any reason if the superstitious opinion of the Papistes be rooted out why any man in that case shoulde be depriued of these benefites Chap. 6. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Page 116. Sect. 2. Nowe remayneth to be spoken of the number of communicantes and that there is saulte in the appoynting of the Seruice booke not onely for that it admitteth in the tyme of plague that one wyth the Minister maye celebrate the Supper of the Lorde in the house but for that it ordeyneth a Communion in the Churche when of a great number whyche assemble there it admytteth thrce or foure The abuse and inconuenience whereof maye thus be considered The holy Sacrament of the Supper of the Lorde is not onely a seale and confirmation of the promises of God vnto vs but also a profession of our comunction as well with Christe our sauiour and wyth God as also as (*) 1. C 10 S. Paule teacheth a declaration and profession that we are at one wyth our brethren so that it is first a sacrament of the knytting of all the body generally and of euery member particularly wyth the head and then of the members of the bodie one wyth an other Nowe therefore seeing that euery particular Churche and body of Gods people is a representation and as it were a liuely portrayture of the whole Churche and body of Christ it followeth that whyche we can not doe wyth all the Churche scattered throughout the whole worlde for the distaunces of places whereby we are seuered we ought to doe with that Churche wherevnto God hath raunged vs as muche as possibly or conuentently maye be The departing therefore of the rest of the Churche from those three or foure is an open profession that they haue no communion felowshippe nor vnitie wyth them that doe communicate and likewyse of those three or foure that they haue none wyth the rest that ioyne not themselues therevnto when as both by the many grapes making one cup cornes making one loafe that whole Church beeing many persons are called as to the vnitie whiche they haue one with an other and altogether among them selues so to the declaration and profession of it by receyuing one wyth another and altogither amongst themselues And as if so be that we do not celebrate as we may possibly and conueniently the supper of the Lorde we thereby vtter our wante of loue towardes the Lorde whyche hathe redeemed vs so if we doe not communicate togither wyth the Churche so farre foorthe as we maye doe conueniently we betray the wante of our loue that we haue one towards an other And therefore S. (*) 1. C 11 Paule driuing heerevnto wysheth that one shoulde tary for an other reprehending that when one preuenteth and commeth before an other saying that that is to take euery man hys owne supper and not to celebrate the Lordes Supper not that so many men or women as there came so many tables were for that had not beene possible in so great assemblies but that they sorted them selues into certayne companies and that they came scattering one after an other and that in steade of making one Supper of the Lorde they dyd make dyuers Io. Whitgifte You can
as that whiche is not onely not fyttest to holde the people in the syncere worshypping of God but also as that which keepeth them in their former blyndnesse corrupt opinions which they haue conceyued of such holydayes Io. Whitgifte Things that be good and profitable and haue a necessarye vse tending to the Profitable thyngs must not be refused for the abuse edifying of the Churche and the worshyppyng of God are not to bée vtterly remoued for the abuses crepte in but the abuse muste be taken awaye and the thing still remayne If all things should bée abrogated bicause they were kepte of the Papistes there would bée a meruailous alteration bothe in the Churche and in the common weale But I haue shewed before howe farre this is from the truthe euen in some Tract 7. ca. 5. things inuented by Popes much more in suche things as were agréed vppon in the primitiue Church as many of the holydays were before the Popes tyranny though afterwardes greatly abused Holydayes as they be nowe vsed be rather meanes to withdrawe men not only The vse of our holydaies a stoppe to superstition from superstition of the dayes them selues but from all other kyndes of superstition whatsoeuer for then is God in the publike congregation truly worshipped the Sacramentes rightly ministred the scriptures and other godly Homilies read the worde of God faythfully preached all whiche be the chiefe and principall meanes to withdrawe men not onely from superstition but all kynde of errour likewyse Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Pag. 120. Lin. 2. And if they had bene neuer abused neyther by the Papistes nor by the Iewes as they haue bene and are daylye yet such makyng of holydayes is neuer without some greate daunger of brynging in some euyll and corrupt opinions into the myndes of men Io. Whitgifte Imaginations and gheasses may not go for reasons and I haue shewed before that the holydayes nowe obserued in the Churche of Englande bée meanes to roote euill and corrupte opinions out of the heartes of men so farre are they from ingendring the contrary Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 120. Lin. 5. I wyll vse an example in one and that the chiefe of holydayes and most generally of longest tyme obserued in the Churche which is the feaste of Easter whiche was kept of some more dayes of some fewer Howe many thousandes are there I wyll not saye of the ignoraunt Papistes but of those also which professe the Gospell which when they haue celebrated those dayes with diligent heede taken vnto theyr lyfe and with some earnest deuotion in praying and hearing the worde of God do not by and by thynke that they haue well celebrated the feaste of Easter and yet haue they thus notably deceyued them selues For Saint Paule teacheth the celebratyng of the feaste of the 1. Cor. 5. Christians Easter is not as the Iewes Easter was for certayne dayes but sheweth that wee must keepe this feaste all the dayes of our lyfe in the vnleauened bread of sinceritie and of truthe by which we see that the obseruing of the feaste of Easter for certayne dayes in the yeare doth pul out of our myndes or euer wee bee aware the doctrine of the Gospell and causeth vs to reste in that neare consyderation of our duties for the space of a fewe dayes whiche shoulde bee extended to all our lyfe Io. Whitgifte What do you condemne the feast of Easter also would you haue it abrogated The apostles obserued Easter bicause it hath bene abused do you not knowe that the Apostles them selues obserued it and the Churche euer sithence their tyme reade Eusebius lib. 5. cap. 23. and you shall finde it to be a tradition of the Apostles per vse the. 24. and 25. chapter of the same Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 23. 24. 29. booke you shall vnderstand by the testimony of Polycrates all the other byshops in Asia that Philip the Apostle Iohn the Euangelist Polycarpus his scholler other byshops likewyse of greatest antiquitie kept solēly the feast of Easter But why should I labour to proue that that all histories all aunciēt fathers al late wryters al learned men confesse and especially séeing that S. Augustine ad Ianu. 119. sayeth that the obseruation of Easter hath the authoritie from the scriptures and séeing also that the same feaste with others is allowed by the confession of the Churches in Heluetia The wordes of which confession be these Moreouer if Churches as they may by Christian libertie Confess Helue kepe religiouslye the remembraunce of Christe his birth circumcision passion resurrection ascention into heauen and sending his holy ghoste vnto his disciples wee well allowe it Therefore I cannot but marueyle that you so boldely without grounde for abuse sake condemne euen the feaste vsed and allowed by the Apostles and continued in the Churche without contradiction of any one worthy of credite to this daye Surely you may as well reason that the scriptures are not to be read because that heretikes haue so greatly abused them Th place of S. Paule 1. Cor. 5. is nothing to your purpose for though he borrows a Metaphor of the Iewes passeouer to moue the Corinthiās to purenesse and integritie of lyfe yet doth he not abrogate the feaste of Easter if he had ment any such thing as he did not yet must it haue bene vnderstanded of the Iewes passeouer not of celebration of the memorie of Christes resurrection whiche we commonlye call Easter Dothe hée that sayeth the whole lyfe of a Christian man ought to bee a perpetuall faste denye that there maye bée anye daye or tyme appoynted to faste in A Christian man muste euer serue God and worshyppe hym shall there not therefore be certayne dayes appoynted for the same This is a verye symple argument Saint Paule wylleth vs to purge out the olde leuen that we maye be a newe lumpe c. also to kepe the feaste not with olde leuen neither with the leuen of malitiousnesse c. therefore we maye not celebrate the feaste of Easter once in the yeare I denye this argument The obseruing of Easter doth rather put vs in mynde of the doctrine of the Gospell and drawe vs to a more nere consyderation of the benefites that wée haue receyued by the death passion and resurrection of Christe and I suppose that there are fewe godlye disposed Christians that doe not thynke it moste conuenient and profitable that such feastes especiallye shoulde bée in the Churche reteyned neyther is euerye contentious persons imagination and surmyse what maye happen to bée so greatlye regarded that it shoulde bée sufficient to condemne anye thyng that maye haue a profitable vse in the Churche by whome so euer it is inuented much lesse if it hath bene vsed of the Apostles them selues and euer sythence theyr tyme continued in the Churche as I haue shewed this feaste to haue bene Th weakenesse of man is greate therefore as hée is
from God so to doe As when there is any generall plague or iudgement of God eyther vpon the Churche or comming towards it the Lorde commaundeth in suche a case that they shoulde sanctifie a generall faste and proclayme ghnatsarah whiche signifieth 2. Ioel. a prohibition or forbydding of ordinary works is the same Hebrue worde wherwith those feast days are noted in the law wherin they should rest the reason of which comaundement of the Lorde was that as they abstayned that day as much as myght be conueniently from meate so they myght abstayne from their dayly workes to the ende they might bestowe the whole day in hearing the worde of God and humbling them selues in the congregation confessyng their faultes and desiring the Lorde to turne away from his fearce wrath In this case the Churche hauing commaundement to make a holyday maye and oughte to doe it as the Churche whiche was in Babilon dyd during the time of their captiuitie But where it is destitute of a commaundemente it may not presume by any decree to restrayne that libertie which the Lorde hath giuen Io. Whitgifte When you are conuinced by manyfest Scripture as you are in this matter then you flye to your newly deuised distinctions as you do in this place saying The Lord whiche gaue this generall lawe might make as many exceptions as he thought good but to no purpose for you can not shewe in the whole Scripture where God hath made any lawe or ordinance agaynst his owne commaundement And surely in this poynte you haue greatly ouershotte your selfe béeing content rather to graunt contrarietie to be in the Scripture than to yéelde to a manyfest and knowne truthe The Church in appoynting holydayes dothe followe the example of God him selfe and therefore Tract 2. hath sufficient ground and warrant for hir doings and of the authoritie of the Church No mans libertie restreyned in such matters I haue spoken in an other place And I haue also a little before declared what kinde of libertie the Church may not restrayne and I adde that euery priuate mans consent is in the consent of y e Church as it is in the consent of the Parliament The Replyer bringeth authoritie against hym selfe therfore no mans libertie otherwise restrained than he hath cōsented vnto That in the seconde of the Prophet Ioell maketh agaynst you directly for it sheweth that vpon iuste occasion the Churche maye inhibite men from labour euen in the sire dayes notwithstanding it be sayde Sixe dayes thou shalte labour c. And to The Iewes aponynted to them selues holy dayes ▪ the intente no man shoulde doubte of the libertie of the Churche héerem or of the practise of this libertie let the nynthe chapter of Esther be perused and therein it will appeare that in remembrance of their great deliuerie from the treason of Haman the Iewes by the commaundement of Mordecai did solemnize and kéepe holydaye the fourtenth and fyftenth daye of the moneth Ader euery yeare But if neyther the ordinances of God himselfe nor the wordes of his Prophetes nor the examples of hys Apostles nor the practise of his Churche from the beginning wil take any place with you you are no man for me to deale with ¶ Of Sainctes dayes Chap. 2. the. 1. Diuision T. C. Page 120. Sect. vlt. Nowe that I haue spoken generally of holydays I come vnto the Apostles and other saincts dayes whiche are kepte wyth vs. And thoughe it were lawfull for the Churche to ordayne holydayes to our sauiour Christe or to the blessed Trinitie yet it is not therefore lawfull to institute holydayes to the Apostles and other Samctes or to their remembrance For althoughe I confesse as muche as you saye in the. 153. page that the Churche of Englande dothe not meane by this keeping of holydayes that the Saincts shoulde be honoured or as you alleage in 175. and 176. pages that with vs the Saincts are not prayed vnto or that it dothe propounde them as meritorious yet that is not inoughe For as we reason agaynst the Popishe purgatorie that it is therefore naught for as much as neyther in the olde Testament nor in the newe there is any mention of prayer at any tyme for the dead (a) Argum. ab auth ritate nogatiue so may it be reasoned agaynst these holydayes ordeyned for the remēbrance of the Saincts that for so much as the olde people dyd neuer keepe any feast or holyday for y e remēbrance eyther of Moses or Daniel or Iob or Abraham or Dauid or any other howe holy or excellent soeuer they were nor the Apostles nor the Churches in their time neuer ▪ instituted any eyther to keepe the remembrance of Stephen or of the Uirgin Mary or of Iohn Baptist or of any other notable and rare personage that the instituting and erecting of them now and this attempte by the Churches whiche followed whiche haue not suche certayne and vndoubted interpreters of the will of God as the Prophetes and Apostles were whiche liued in those Churches is not without some note of presumption for that it vndertaketh those things whiche the Primitiue Churche in the Apostles times hauing greater giftes of the spirite of God than they that followed them had durst not venter vpon Io. Whitgifte Purgatorie is made a matter of saluation or damnation as all other doctrines of the Popes be and therfore a negatiue reason suche as you vse is sufficient inoughe to improue it But holydayes in our Churche haue no suche necessitie ascribed vnto them onely they are thought very profitable to the edifying of Gods people and therefore suche negatiue reasons preuayle not agaynst them no more than they doe agaynst other constitutions of the Church perteyning to edifying order or comelynesse wherof there is no mention made in the worde of God And therefore nothing that is héere spoken by you can take any holde Chap. 2. the. 2. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 175. Sect. 1. Neyther are they called by the name of any Sainct in any other Why y e name of Sainctes are giuen to our holidays respecte than that the Scriptures whiche that daye are read in the Churche be concerning that Sainct and conteyne eyther hys calling preaching persecution martyrdome or suche like T. C. Pag. 121. Sect. 1. Moreouer I haue shewed before what force the name of euery thyng hathe to cause men to thinke so of euery thing as it is named and therefore althoughe you saye in the. 175. page that in calling these holydayes the dayes of suche or suche a Saincte there is nothyng else inent but that the Scriptures whiche are that daye read concerne that Saincte and conteyne eyther his calling preaching persecution Martyrdome c. yet euery one dothe not vnderstande so muche For besides that the corrupte custome of Popery hathe carryed their myndes to an other interpretation the very name and appellation of the daye teacheth otherwyse For seeing that by the dayes dedicated
Sunday whiche you haue denied to be his opinion in the former two places I haue tolde you what he meaneth by discipline and order or pollicie whereby he giueth to vnderstande nothing lesse than that whiche you woulde conclude beyng but your owne deuise to serue for a poore shifte at a néede And although the matter is not greate whether they labour or no yet the lawe of the Prince and the order of the Churche is to be obserued And so it appeareth that there is no reasonable cause as yet proued why you ought not to subscribe to the seruice Booke Chap. 2. the. 8. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 82. Sect. 1. 2. In the ende you adde patched if not altogither yet the greatest peece out of the Popes Portuis To this I answere briefely it maketh no matter of whome it was inuented in what Booke it is conteyned so that it be good and profitable and consonant to Gods worde Well sayeth Ambrose Omne verum à quocunque dicitur à spiritu Sancto est All truth of vvhome soeuer it is spoken is of the holy ghost T. C. Pag. 123. Lin. 6. Nowe whereas M. Doctor sayeth it maketh no matter wither these thinges be taken out of the Portuis so they be good c. I haue proued first they are not good then if they were yet beyng not necessarie and abused horribly by the Papists other beyng as good and better than they ought not to remayne in the churche Io. Whitgifte Your reasons be not sufficient to proue them not to be good the abuse hath not bene suche but that it beyng remoued the thing may still remayne as profitable and The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iudgement conuenient the iudgement of the Churche in determining what is best and moste fittest in matters of order pollicie and gouernment not beyng agaynst the worde of God is to be preferred before any priuate mans opinion and imagination Chap. 2. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Pag. 123. Lin. 10. And as for Ambrose saying all truth of whome soeuer it be sayde is of the holy ghoste if I were disposed to moue questions I coulde demaunde of him which careth not of whome he haue Mark 1. the truth so he haue it what our Sauiour Christe ment to refuse the testimonie of Deuils when they gaue a cleare testimonie ▪ that he was the Sonne of God and the holy one And what S. Paule ment to be angrie and to take it so grieuously that the Pithonisse sayde he and his companion Act. 16. were the seruantes of the highe God which preached vnto them the way of saluation Here ▪ was truth and yet reiected and I would knowe whether M. Doctor would saye that these spake by the spirite of God Thus whilest without all iudgement he snatcheth here a sentence and there another out of the Doctoures and that of the worste as if a man should of purpose choose out the brosse and leaue the siluer within a while he will make no great difference not onely betwene the Prophetes and Apostles and prophane wryters as Aristotle and Plato but not betwene them and those which speake not by the conduyte and leading of the holy ghoste but by the violent thrusting of the wicked spirite Io. Whitgifte Christe liked not the truth beyng vttered of the Diuell bycause he spake it of an euill meaning but he liked very well the same testimonie of truth afterwardes vttered by Peter sincerely Math. 16. Mar. 8. Neyther did he mislike the woordes bycause they were abused by the Diuell before But I will leaue Diuels and speake of men of whome I thinke Ambrose mente although the truth is truthe of whome soeuer it is vttered but to Answere for Ambrose he hath sayde nothing in that sentence which may not be iustified M. Caluine vpon these woordes 1. Corinth 12. And no man can saye that Iesus is the Caluine Lorde but by the holy Ghost sayeth thus It may be demaunded whether the wicked haue the Spirite of God seyng they sometime testifie playnely and well of Christe I answere that there is no doubte but that they haue so much as concerneth that effect but it is an other thing to haue the gifte of regeneration than to haue the gifte of bare vnderstanding wherewith Iudas was indued when he preached the Gospell M. Martyr also vpon the same woordes after he hath recited the opinions of other P. Martyr maketh this resolution But when I weygh this matter with my selfe I perceyue that the Apostle here dothe speake not of the Spirite whiche doth regenerate or of that grace which iustifieth but of the giftes which are freely giuen whiche may happen as well to the good as to the euill Therefore I thinke that Paule spake simply that he might declare that by what meanes soeuer we speake well of Christe it is of the holy Ghost of whome Omne verum à spiritu sancto est commeth all truthe as all vntruth proceedeth of the Deuill who is the father of lyes You sée therefore that Ambrose is not of this iudgement alone and that his saying is verie true The Doctoures that I haue vsed in this cause be Ierome and Augustine whiche be not the worst but comparable with the best I haue rehearsed out of them whole sentences and perfite the which you are not able to answere the rest of your opprobrious woordes wherewith you conclude this question of holy dayes I leaue for other to consider of as notes of your spirite And to the intent that the Reader may vnderstande that it was not for naught that you set not downe my Booke togither with your Replie I will here set downe such portions of my booke touching this matter as you haue not answered vnto but closely passed ouer not thinking that any man should haue espied your lacke of abilitie to answere them Chap. 2. the. 10. Diuision Admonition They should first proue that holy dayes ascribed to Sayncts prescript seruices for them c. are agreeable to the written worde of the Almightie Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 153. Sect. 4. Pag. 154. Sect. 1. Holy dayes ascribed to Sainctes wherein not the Sainctes but God is honoured and the people edified by reading and hearing suche stories and places of Scripture as perteyne to the martyrdome calling ▪ and function of such Sainctes or any other thing mentioned of them in Scripture must needes be according to Gods worde For to honor God to worship him to be edified by the stories and examples of Sainctes out of the Scripture cannot be but consonant to the Scripture The prescript secuice for them is all taken out of Gods worde and not one peece thereof but it is moste consonant vnto the same If ther be any that is repugnant set it down that we may vnderstande it I tolde you before that touching the dayes and times and other Ceremonies the churche hath authoritie to determine what is most cōuenient
Churche by publike authoritie established wherfore vntil you shew some particulars this shal be my answere that Spiritus Dei neque est mendax neque mordax The spirite of God is neyther a lyer nor a slaunderer It is but your pleasure thus generally to say That then pastors soughte their flocks now they seeke theirs for it is well knowne that there bee Pastours which seeke their flockes and not theirs Hitherto thanks be vnto God in al this discourse ther is not one peece of false doctrine of any substance ascribed to this Churche of England by these libellers therfore it hath as God will the fyrst note of the true church of Christ that is puritie of doctrine T. C. Pag. 124. Lin. 12. To the next section being the rest of the. 84. page I minde to say nothing hauing before spoken of the faults of the ceremonies and rites which are vsed with vs. Io. Whitgifte The Admonition saith that then nothing was taught but Gods word now Princes pleasures mens deuises popishe ceremonies and Antichristian rites in publike pulpits defended and will neyther you nor they tell vs what those Princes pleasures c. be well it is true y t followeth in that part of my Answer for there is nothing said to the cōtrary Admonition These and a greate many other abuses are in the ministerie remayning which vnlesse they be remoued and the truth broughte in not onely Gods iustice shall be poured foorthe but also Gods Church in this realme shal neuer be builded For if they which seeme to be workinē are no workmen indeede but in name or elfe worke not so diligently and in such order as the workmaster commaundeth it is not only vnlikely that the building shall go forward but altogither impossible that euer it shall be perfited The way therefore to auoid these inconueniences and to reforme these deformities is this Your wisedomes haue to remoue Aduousons Patronages Impropriatiōs and Byshops authoritie clayming to themselues thereby right to ordeyne ministers and to bring in that old and true election which was accustomed to be (q) Act. 1. 26. 6. 2. 3. 14. 13. made by the cōgregation You must displace those ignorant and vnable ministers already placed and in their roomes appoynte suche as both can and wil by Gods assistance (r) 1 ▪ Pet. 5. feede the flocke You must plucke downe and vtterly ouerthrow without hope of restitution the Court of Faculties from whence not only licences to enioy many benefices are obteyned as pluralities Trialities Totquots c. but all thinges for the most part as in the Court of Rome are set on sale licences to marrie to eate flesh in times prohibited 1. Pet. 5. 2. to lie from benefices and charges and a great number beside of such like abhominations Appoint to euery congregation a learned and diligēt preacher ▪ Remoue Homilies Articles iniunctions a prescript order of Seruice made out of the Masse booke Take away the lordship the l ytering the pompe the idlenesse liuings of byshops but yet employ them to such endes as they were in the old Church appoynted for Let a lawfull and a godly scigniorie looke that they preache not quarterly or monethly but continuallie not for filthy lucre sake but of a ready mind So God shall be glorifyed your consciences discharged and the flocke of Christe purchased (s) Acts. 20. 28 with his owne bloud edifyed Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 86. 87. Sect. 1. 2. What these great abuses by you hitherto alleadged be I trust you Discipline necessary do now fully vnderstand surely except such factious libellers suche stirrers vp of schismes such disturbers of the peace of the church such contemners of those that be in authoritie be not onely remoued but repressed God will not only of his iustice punish the magistrates of this Realme for their carelesnesse in this behalfe but also Gods gospell will therein be as much defaced with factions schismes and heresies as euer it was in the Popes time with superstition and idolatrie For surely these men that would be compted such perfect builders Libellers be vnderminers ▪ not builders be but vnderminers and destroyers and instruments of some greedy guttes and lusty toysters who to maynteyne their pride and ioylitie seeke for the spoyle of the Churche and indeede the vtter ouerthrow both of learning and religion For take from Byshops their lands and their authoritie let euery Confusion parish elect their owne minister remoue Homilies Articles Iniunctions appoynt no prescript order of seruice that is to say let there be no order prescribed to any man no law to direct him or controll him but let euery minister do what he list speake what he list alter what he list and so oft as him list to be short let euery minister be King and Pope in his owne parish and exempted from all controlemente of Byshop Magistrate and Prince and you shall haue as many kinds of Religion as there is Parishes as many sects as ministers and a Church miserably torne in peeces with mutabilitie and diuersitie of opinions Do you not see what they shoote at would they not be free from al Anabaptisme feared Ambition in the Admonitors magistracie do they not most ambitiously desire that themselues whiche they condemne in other that is Lordship and superioritie For who thinke you shoulde be chiefe in euery parish and direct the rest Surely euen the minister The Pope neuer required greater authoritie ouer al Christendom than they seke to haue ouer their parish The Pope and his Clergie did neuer more earnestly seeke and desire to be exempted from the iurisdiction of ciuil magistrates than these men do both from ellesiasticall and ciuill Princes nobles and magistrates were neuer brought into greater seruitude bondage than these men seeke to lay vpon them T. C. Pag. 124. Sect. 1. After a number of words without matter sayings without proofes accusations without any grounds or likelihoode of grounds as that they be instruments of greedy gutts nd lusty roysters to maynteyn them in theyr ioylitie whych notwithstanding speake ageynst Patron ges and would haue the liuings of the Church which are idlely and vnprofitably spent for the most p rt applyed to the right vses of the poore and of ministers and schollers and that they would be discharged from ciuill and ecclesiasticall subiection whiche humbly submitting themselues to the Queenes maiestie and all those that are sente of hir would deliuer the Churches and themselues for the Churches sake from the vnla ull dominion of one to the end that they might yeld themselues with their Chruches subiect to the lawfull ecclesiasticall gouernment of those which ▪ God hath appoynted in his word After I ▪ s y a number of such and like accusations mixt with most itter and reprochfull words vnto all which it is sufficient answer that ▪ Quod verbo dictu mest verbo sit negatum ▪ As easily denyed as sayd Io. Whitgifte
encreased But these thyngs are not de substantia Sacramenti and therfore not sufficient to proue that the Supper is not sincerely ministred M. Bucer likewyse in his censure vpon the booke of Cōmon prayers is of the same iudgement his wordes be these The thirde chapter M. Bucers opinion is of the substance forme and breaking of bread vvhiche all doe vvell inough agree vvith the institution of Christe vvhome it is manifest to haue vsed vnleuened breade and easy to be broken for hee brake it and gaue to his disciples peeces of the breade broken Touching the forme and figure vvhether it were rounde or square there is nothyng declared of the Euangelistes And bicause this breade is vsed onely for a signe and not for corporall nourishemente I see not vvhat can be reprehended in this description of the breade vvhiche is in this booke excepte some vvoulde peraduenture haue it thicker that it maye the more fully represente the forme of true breade T. C. Pag. 130. Sect. vlt. I haue spoken of this bread before in generall and if M. Doctor did not disagree with himselfe we are here well agreed For first he fay the it skilleth not what bread we haue 〈◊〉 by and by he sayth that he wisheth it were common bread and assigneth a great cause which the booke of seruice likewise assigneth which is to auoyd superstition and it is certaynly knowen by experience that in diuers places the ignorant people that haue bin misseled in poperie haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 kneeled vnto it and held vp their hands whilest the minister hathe giuen it not those only whiche haue receiued it but those whiche haue bin in the Churche and looked on I speake of that whiche I know and haue seene with my eyes Another reason is alleadged by M. Bucer whiche is that there being some thicker substance of bread and such as should moue and stirre vp the tast better the consideration of the mind which is conneyed by the senses might be also the more effectuall and so the frute of receyuing greater By the way note that eyther (*) Or else you speake of a matter you know not Bucers censures vppon the booke of seruice be falsely ascribed vnto him or be corrupted or else were not euen in his owne time here thought good substantiall and sufficient when there is some cause by act of Parliament afterward found I meane in the second booke of King Edward to mislike water cakes and to change them into common bread Howsoeuer it be that circumstance would be well marked that it was one thing to talke of a water cake in the vse of y e supper in King Edwards dais before they were iustly abolished and another thing now being reuoked after they were renioued Io. Whitgifte I am constant and agrée with my selfe in the truth I thanke God for it I knowe the kind of bread to be indifferents my priuate iudgemēt I haue in my Answer vttered But in such matters I submit my selfe to the determination of the Church to whome God doth giue his spirit most aboundantly so long as it followeth and embraceth the truth The daunger that you speake of is in the forme and figure of the bread not in the other qualities nor in the substance and therfore not perteyning to any thing that I haue spoken For the question is of leauened or vnleauened breade not of roundnesse or squarenesse c. Although the forme and figure also is indifferente and in the power of the Churche to appoynt wherfore there may no schisme or diuision in the Churche be made for it M. Bucers censures were vpon the firste booke in King Edwards time not vppon Bucers censure vpon the first booke 〈◊〉 King Edwards days the second therefore you are deceiued The Church hath authoritie in things indifferent to abolish or reuoke as occasion serueth and therefore that circumstance is not worthe the noting Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 131. Sect. 1. Besides that we be called by the example of our sa ionce Christ to vse the supper vsual and common bread for what time our Sauioure Christ celebrated his supper there was no other bread to be gotten but vnleauened bread there being astraight charge giuen by the law that there should be then no leauened bread and it is not to be doubted but that if there had in then when he celebrated his supper as at other times nothing but leauened bread he would not haue caused vnleauened bread to haue bin made for that purpose of celebrating his supper Io. Whitgifte It was not vsuall bread but properly appoynted for the celebrating of the passouer Christ vsed vnleuened bread and then to be vsed and not otherwise vsually and commonly for their vsuall and common bread was leauened wherefore this maketh against you and if you will haue the commaundements that appertethe to the eating of the passouer perpetuall Pa. 130. Sect. 2 and to be referred to the celebrating of the Lords supper as by that precept 2. Chro. 35. before alleadged it seemeth you would then must we make it a matter of necessitie to haue vnleauened bread but as that is 〈◊〉 so is this also for the kind of bread is indifferent although as M. Bucer sayth it commeth nearer to the institution The kind of bread of itself indifferent of Christe to vse vnle uened bread b cause he did celebrate his supper with it if there wer not other circumstances and reasons to moue the Church sometimes to vse the contrary Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision T. C. Pag. 131. Sect. But this is a grosse ouersight of M. Doctor both 〈◊〉 this section and that whiche goeth 〈◊〉 fore that he hath not learned to make a difference betwene that which is not ncerely done that which is not at al done For in the former 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vpon the Admonition bicause they conclude that for as much as there is no examination therefore it is not 〈◊〉 and sincerely ministred For saythe he the examination of the communicantes is not of the Iubstaunce of the sacrament and in this section he saith that for as much as it is not of the substance of the sacramēt whether there be leauened or vnleauened bread therefore it is not sufficiently proued that the sacrament is not sincerely ministred but he ought to haue vnderstanded that if eyther the matter of the sacrament as bread and wine or the forme of it which is the institution which things are only substantiall parts were wanting that then there should haue bin no sacrament ministred at all but they being reteyned and yet other things vsed which are not conuenient the sacrament is ministred but not sincerely For example in the popish baptisme there was the substance of baptisme but there being vsed spittle and creame and candels and such beggerly trumperie it was not sincerely ministred therefore it is one thing to minister sincerely and another thing to minister so that that which is of
of S. Paul to the Corinthians and not bicause I would haue the Churche to suffer any suche notorious offendours to receyue the Communion Chap. 2. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Pag. 132. Sect. vlt. And therefore Papists beeing suche as whiche are notoriously knowne to holde hereticall opinions ought not to be admitted muche lesse compelled to the supper For seeing that our sauiour Christ did institute his supper amongst his Disciples and those onely which were as S. Paule speaketh within it is euident that the Papists beeing without and foreners and straungers from the Church of God ought no to be receyued if they would offer themselues and that minister that shall giue the supper of the Lorde to him which is knowne to be a Papist and whiche hath neuer made any cleare renouncing of poperie with whiche he hath beene defiled dothe prophane the table of the Lorde and dothe giue the meate that is prepared for the children to dogges and he bringeth into the pasture whiche is prouided for the sheepe swyne and vncleane beastes contrarie to the fayth and trust that ought to be in a stewarde of the Lordes house as he is For albeit that I doubt not but many of those whiche are nowe papistes perteyne to the election of God whiche God also in hys good time wyll call to the knowledge of his truthe yet notwithstanding they ought to be vnto the minister and vnto the Churche touching the ministring of the sacraments as straungers and as vncleane beastes And as for the Papistes howsoeuer they receyue it whether as their popishe breaden God as some doe or as common and ordinary bread as other some doe or as a thing they knowe not what as some other they doe nothing else but eate drink their own condemnation the weight wherof they shall one day assuredly feele vnlesse they do repent them of suche horrible prophaning of the Lordes most holy mysteries Io. Whitgifte When our sauiour Christ dyd institute his supper Iudas was present and partaker thereof with the rest as it is euident in the Euangelistes and yet was not Iudas of the Churche but without the Churche and a reprobate You alleage S. Paule but there is neyther Epistle nor chapter nor any other place quoted which argues a guyltie conscience and willing to vse vntrue allegations or at the least vnapte I doe not allowe that Papists béeing notoriously knowne and continuing in their poperie should be admitted to receyue the Communion neyther are they admitted therevnto in this Churche And béeing suche as you speake of I thinke they woulde not come although they were compelled Chap. 2. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Page 133. Lin. 16. And if this be to gratisie the Papists to shewe that they ought not to be compelled to receyue the supper of the Lorde as long as they continue in their Popery I am well contente to shewe them thys pleasure so that bothe they and you forget not what I haue before sayde (*) You sayd before that if they be not meete to receyue the cō munion neyther are they meete to heare the worde Pag 118. Sect. 1. that the Magistrate ought to compell them to heare the worde of God and if they profite not nor wyth suffycient teaching correct not them selues that then they shoulde be punyshed And if you doe aske why they should be more cōpelled vnto y e sermons than vnto the supper of the Lord or why they are not as wel to be admitted vnto the one as vnto the other you see y e like done in the sacrament of baptisme whiche may not be ministred vnto all to whome the worde may be preached The reason also is at hande for the preaching of the worde of God to the Papistes is an offer of the grace of God whiche maye be made to those whiche are straungers from God but the ministring of the holy sacraments vnto them is a declaration and seale of Gods fauour and reconciliation with them and a playne preaching partly that they be washed already from theyr sinnes partly that they are of the housholde of God and suche as the Lorde wyll feede to eternall lyfe whiche is not lawfull to be done to those whiche are not of the housholde of fayth And therefore I conclude that the compelling of Papistes vnto the Communion and the dismissing and letting of them goe when as they be to be punished for their stubbornesse in Poperie wyth this condition if they wyll receyue the Communion is very vnlawfull when as althoughe they would receyue it yet they ought to be kepte backe vntyll suche tyme as by their religious and gospellike behauiour they haue purged them selues of that suspition of Poperie whiche their former life and conuersation hath caused to be conceyued Io. Whitgifte This is directly contrarie to that which you before affirmed page 118. For there Pag. 118. sect 1 you saye that those whiche are not meete to receyue the holy sacrament of the Supper are not meete to heare the worde of God if they be meete for the one they be meete for the other and that with what lawfulnesse they may offer them selues to the prayers and to the hearing of the worde of God they may also offer them selues to the Lordes supper and to whome so euer of them the Lorde will cōmunicate him selfe by preaching the worde vnto the same he will not refuse to cōmunicate him selfe by receyuing of the Sacraments These be your wordes there and nowe you sing another song going about to proue that the Magistrate may and oughte to compell those to the hearing of the worde who are not meete to be receyued to the Lordes supper Surely this is great inconstancie but I agree with you in this place and I Men persisting in wickeanesse and errours are not to be compelled haue before declared the vntruthe of your assertion in the other place This onely I muste let you vnderstande that when I speake of compelling eyther Papistes or other to the communion I doe not meane that they persisting in their wyckednesse and errours should be constrayned to come to the Lordes supper but that all ordinarie meanes of perswasion béeing vsed if they styll continue in their stubbornesse and refuse to communicate with vs suche discipline shoulde be vsed towardes them as is conuenient for their wilfulnesse and contempt of the truthe Your selfe before pag. 117. sayde that suche as wythdrawe them selues from the Communion The Replye agreeth not with the monition shoulde bothe by ecclesiasticall discipline and ciuil punishment be brought to communicate wyth their brethren the same doe I affirme also But the Authors of the Admonition saye that this is to dryue men in their synnes to the Lordes supper and therefore page 1 9 they woulde neyther haue Papistes nor other constrayned to communicate in the mysteries of The 〈◊〉 would haue no e cōpe led to communicate saluation meaning as I thinke that they would haue no correction nor discipline for
Lorde These therefore be they whome we call excommunicated and who for two respectes are not members of the Churche one according to men bycause they are excluded from the holy felowship of the faythfull the other according to God bycause that saying of Christe is sure that that is bounde in heauen whiche is ryghtlye bounde of the Churche in the earth But it is an other thyng truelye to bee bounde in heauen than to bee cast out of that true kyngdome of heauen whiche neuer happeneth to anye of the electe For that saying of Christe standeth that those shall neuer bee caste out whome the Father hath giuen the Sonne and that of Lohn if they had bene of vs they woulde haue taried with vs and that of the Apostle the foundation of God standeth sure hauing this seale the Lorde knoweth who be is Therefore as touching Christe these are sayd not to be his nor members of the Churche not as the firste whiche are reprobate and damned but bycause for a tyme as concernyng the force and efficacie of the spirite they are without hym as beyng so engraffed in hym that they receyue not that lyuelye nouryshement of the spirite of Christe for a tyme that is tyll grace of repentaunce be gyuen them To conclude the difference betwixt these and the firste is such as is betweene a legge of woode ioyned cunninglye to a true bodye whiche notwithstanding is not a legge in deede neyther is truely called a parte of that man and betwyxt a true legge that yet for a tyme receyueth not nouryshement in suche sorte that vnles it be refreshed by the strengthe of some sharpe medicine it wyll necessaryly putrific and cleane peryshe VVherefore seeing these thinges be thus and charitie byddeth vs to hope well of all yea and also to take care for them whiche are helde as captiues in the snare of the Deuyll God forbydde that the Parentes beyng excommunicated wee should conclude that theyr posteritie belongeth not to the kyngdome of God Furthermore there is great difference betweene those whiche although they bee notorious offendours neuerthelesse departe not from the Churche and betweene those that are manifeste rennegates ioyning them selues with the enimies to oppresse the truthe of the Gospell Further it were vnreasonable to esteeme of Papistes muche lesse Christians excommunicated no otherwise than of Turkes for although it bee vnpossible to serue the Pope and Christ togyther yet it is certayne that Poperie is an erring of the Christian Churche VVherefore the Lorde hath in the middest of that goulfe of Papistrie preserued Baptisme that is the first entering into the Churche whereby it appeareth as also the thing it selfe proueth in vs that although Papisme be not the Churche yet the Churche hathe bene and is as it were drowned or couered in it whiche can not by anie meanes bee sayde of the Turkes whiche neuer gaue theyr names to Chryst. Lastly for so muche as the goodnesse of God is extended to a thousande generations that is as it were without ende it were harde if wee shoulde iudge of the children whether they belong to the couenant of God or no by the profession of their last Parentes Therefore of all these argumentes ioyned togither we conclude that the children of persons excommunicate abyding yet in the Churche of God can by no right bee debarred from Baptisme if in case a meete suretie bee had whiche will make promyse to the Church that they shall be vertuously brought vp which I thinke ought to be done of the Ministers them selues and other Godly men rather than theyr Baptisme shoulde anie longer be deferred Yet it shall not be amisse if the Minister before he baptise the infant taking hereof occasion earnestly exhort the father that is excommunicated being present to epentance before the assemblie whiche is oftentymes practised in oure Churches Hitherto Beza Chap. 4. the 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 137. Sect. 2. And in the. 193. page he asketh what if the Parentes of the childe be vnknowen if it be yet if godly men will present it to baptisme with promyse of seing it brought vp in the feare of the Lorde for so much as it is founde in a place where the churche is and therefore by likelyhoode to apperteyne to some that was of the churche I thynke it may be baptised if the churche thynke it good in this last case Io. Whitgifte And why should you but thinke so what reason is there why it should not be baptised But yet this answere of yours dothe nothing iustifie the Aomonition Whiche would The parentes to presente their chyldren if conuentently makyng an open confession of that faythe wherein he would haue his chylde baptised For this can not be done where the Parentes be vnknowen neither is in such case any other man able to testifie of what faythe or behauiour the parentes were Chap. 4. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 137. Sect. vlt. Then he goeth forth in the. III. Page to proue that the children of those which he hath reckened may be baptised and demaundeth whither a wicked father may haue a good childe a Papist or Heretike father a beleeuing chylde yes verily may they So may haue and hath the Turke and the Iewe and yet their children are not to be receyued vnlesse their fayth doth fitste appeare by confession But you say the Papiste an Heretike be Baptised and so are not the Iewes and Turkes Their baptisme beyng cut of from the Churche maketh them as much straungers vnto it as was Ismaell and Esau whiche albeit they were circumcised yet beyng caste out of the Churche they were no more to be accompted to be of the body of Gods people then those whiche neuer were in the Churche Now you see (*) It is poyson in deede and the same whi he I suspected the poyson as you terme it which lieth hidde vnder these wordes and if it be as you say poyson let vs haue some of your triacle In all the reste of that section there is nothing but that which he spake of before onely the Eldership is amed which commeth to be intreated of in the next section Io. Whitgifte If their baptisme be so cut of that it also taketh away the priuiledge from their children howe can they be admitted agayne into the Churche without rebaptisation S. Augustine in the place before recited sayeth that Heretikes though they be cut of from the Churche yet they do retayne their Baptisme whiche beyng true there is no reason to seclude their children frō it I cannot learne but that the Sonnes of Ismaell were circumcised for it is written of the Egyptians as P. Martyr doth note P. Martyr in 4. Rom. that they circumcided at 14. yeares of age bycause Ismael was then circumcised Which tyme of circumcision the Arabians obserued in lyke manner And therefore it is not vnlike but that the Posteritie of Ismael was circumcised And as for the Sonnes of Esau it is not like that they were debarred from circumcision
seyng Esau himselfe receyued the signe of the couenant notwithstanding he was before reiected Rom. 9. And that his posteritie were not so farre estraunged from the people of God as those that neuer were in the Churche it may appeare by that which is written in Deutronomie where the Israelites are willed to acknowledge them for their Deut. 23. vers 7. 8. The papistes ly e o the 〈◊〉 v der Ieroboani c. Brethren and to admitte their children in the thirde Generation into the congregation of the Lorde And yet are not the Papistes like vnto Ismael and Esau but rather the same with the Israelites vnder Ieroboam c. for as they professed the lawe of Moses had circumcision and were not in all poyntes straunge from the fayth of the Iewes but yet ioyned therevnto Idolatrie and the false worshipping of God euen so the Papistes pretende the lawe of God vse the Sacramentes professe Christianitie and are not in all poyntes straunge from Christian fayth but yet haue corrupted the same with idolatrous worshipping and diuerse other kindes of superstition and errours Therefore sayeth M. Beza very well in the wordes before recited Beza Epist. 10. Papismus est Ecclesiae Christianae aberratio Papisme is the erring of the Christian Churche And Ecclesia est velut immersa in Papatu quod de Turcis dici nullo modo potest qui nunquà m Cbristo nomen dederunt the Churche is as it were couered or drowned in Papisme whiche can by no meanes be sayde of Turkes whiche neuer gaue their names to Christe or professed Christianitie Wherefore if you had made a right comparison you should not haue compared them to Ismaell and Esau but to the reuolting Israelites as M. Martyr dothe saying thus expresly Quales olim Israelitae c. Such are the Martyr in 3. cap. 1. Reg. Papistes at this day if they be compared with the professours of the Gospell as were the Israelites in respect of the Iewes But full well you knewe that in so doing your errour would soone haue bene espied for though the Israelites were separated from the true Churche yet were not their children cut of from the couenaunt or debarred from the signe thereof The poyson which you say we nowe see and that lieth hid vnder these woordes is The poyson that is hidde in the Repliers doctrine the debarring of children from Baptisme for their parentes offences beyng baptised and rebaptisation Both which you do in more playne manner affirme than the Admonition doth and therefore for triacle to cure these venemous diseases I sende you to the learned workes of S. August Contra epist. Parmeniani de Baptis contra Donatistas of M. Bullinger Zuinglius Caluine and others which haue written against these poysoned poynts of the Anabaptistes and Donatistes ¶ Of the Seigniorie or gouernment by Seniors Tract 17. VVhether there vvere such as the Admonition calleth Seniors in euery Congregation Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision T. C. Pag. 138. Sect. 1. As though M. Doctor were at vtter defiaunce with all good order and methode of writing Of Seniors that which was giuen him orderly by the Admonition he hath turned vpsidedowne For where the Admonition speaketh first of the Elders then of that which is annexed vnto them which is the discipline whereof excommunication is a part considering that the subiect is in nature before that which is annexed vnto it M. Doctor hath turned it cleane cōtrary and first speaketh of excommunication and then of the Elders I will therfore that the reader may the easelier vnderstand that which is sayd folow the order of the Admonition and first of all speake of the Elders or Seniors which ought to be in the Churche and in speaking of them I muste call to remembrance that diuision which I made mention on before that is of those which haue care and gouerne the whole congregation some there be which do bothe teach the worde and gouerne also some which do not teache but onely gouerne and be ayders in the gouernment vnto those which do teache This diuision is moste manifestly set forth in the Epistle vnto Timothe where he sayeth the Elders 1. Tim. 5. which rule well are worthy of double honour and especially those whiche labour in the worde and doctrine where he maketh by playne and expresse wordes two sortes of Elders the one whiche doth both gouerne and teache the other which gouerneth onely These therefore are the Seniors which are meant whose office is in helping the Pastor or Bishop in the gouernment of that particular Churche where they be placed Pastors and Elders Io. Whitgifte It is no rare matter in handling any thing first to entreate of that which is natura posterius and we sée it commonly so vsed by Logicians who firste treate of that parte which is called Iudicium then of the other which is called Inuentio notwithstanding Inuentio in nature is before Iudicium But I will not spende incke and paper in answering so vayne a cauillation The truth is that I in mine Answere follow the order of the Admonition For I proue that it was not the office of those Seniors to gouerne the Church c. bycause they had nothing to do with excōmunication being the chiefest discipline in the Church seing the execution therof was committed to the Minister of the worde onely So that I first take away authoritie frō their Seniors then answere the places which they abuse for the establishing of their authoritie My woordes be these What Scripture haue you to proue that such Seniors as you meane and Deacons had any thing to do in Ecclesiasticall discipline but all this is from the purpose Your diuision of Seniors though I know that it hath learned Patrones yet do I not vnderstande howe it agreeth with the woorde of God for if we consider the writinges of the Apostles it will euidently appeare that Presbyter is vsually taken for Episcopus or Minister or Pastor Presbyter vsually taken for a minister 1. Pet. 5. Act. 20. Tit. 1. as 1. Pet. 5. Presbyteros qui inter vos sunt bortor qui sum ipse Presbyter c. pascite c. The Elders which are among you I besech which am my selfe also an Elder c Feede the the flocke c. And in the Act. S. Paule calleth the same men Seniors and Bishops and by Seniors meaneth none other than Bishops and Pastors as it is euident in that place Likewise ad Titum 1. he sayeth that Titus was lefte at Creta vt constituat opidatim presbyteros That he should appoynt Elders in euery citie And declaring what qualities they ought to haue he addeth Oportet Episcopum immunem esse à crimine c. A Bishop must be vnreproueable c. Whereby it is manifest that he taketh them bothe for one The onely place that hath any shewe for the proofe of your distinction is that Two kindes of Presbyteri 1. Tim. 5. 1. Tim. 5. Presbyteri
if I do not who hath taught you to speake vntruly my woordes I haue expressed lette the Reader consider of them and here also take a note of your truth and honestie Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 139. Sect. 1. Afterwardes he sayeth that for so much as this place hath bene vsed to proue a Pastor or Bi hop in euery churche therefore it cannot be vsed to proue these Elders so that sayeth he there must needes be eyther a contradiction or else a falsification The place is rightly alleaged for both he one and the other and yet neyther contradiction to themselues nor falsification of the place but onely a miste before M. Doctors eyes which will not let him see a playne and euident truth which is the worde Elder is generall and comprehendeth both those Elders which teach and gouerne and those which gouerne onely as hath bene shewed out of S. Paule Io. Whitgifte If it had these two significations as I haue proued that it hath not yet that it is so taken in the. 14. of the Actes I cannot reade in any writer and I haue shewed M. Caluines and M. Brentius iudgements to the contrary whiche in any wise mans opinion are able to counteruayle your credite and bare deniall And surely in that place it cannot be taken but in one and the selfe same signification except you will say that the spirit of God speaketh ambiguously and vseth aequiuocations Which were to derogate much from the simplicitie and plainenesse of the Scriptures Wherefore the Authors of the Admonition in alleaging that text in some place to proue the election of Pastors and in some other place to proue the office of Seniors speake they know not what and dally with the Scriptures euen as you do in like manner when you take vpon you the defense of so manifest a contradiction Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 114. Sect. 1. In the. 1. Corin. 12. S. Paule sayeth that God hath ordeyned in the Go rnours in the church Church first Apostles then Prophetes thirdly teachers then them that do miracles after that the giftes of healing helpers gouernours diuersities of tongues here is not one worde of the office of Seniors neyther yet of their names for this worde gouernours teacheth vs that Christ hath ordeyned in his church some to beare rule gouerne but whether one in euery congregation or moe whether ministers of the worde or other whether Magistrates or Seniors it is not here expressed howsoeuer it is it maketh nothing for your purpose T. C. Pag. 139. Sect. 1. And whereas M. Doctor sayth that the place of the Corinths may be vnderstanded of ciuill 1. Co. 12. Magistrates of preaching ministers of gouernours of the (*) A manif st vntruthe for there is no such thing affir ed. whole Churche and not of euery particular Churche and finally any thing rather than that whereof it is in dee e vnderstanded I say first that he still stumbleth at one stone whiche is that he can not put a difference betweene the Churche and common wealth and so betweene the Churche offycers whiche he there speaketh of and the offycers of the common wealth those whiche are cclesiasticall and those whiche are ciuill Then that he meaneth not the minister whiche preacheth it may appeare for that he had noted them before in the worde teachers and last of all he can not meane gouernour of the whole Church onlesse he shoulde meane Pope if he will say he meaneth an Archbishop which gouerneth a whole Prouince besides that it is a bolde speeche without all warrant I haue shewed before that the worde of God alloweth of no suche office and therefore it remayneth that it muste be vnderstanded of this office of Elders Io. Whitgifte Héere haue you manyfestly fals yed my booke and greatly abused me For I haue not these wordes of gouernours of the whole Church and not of euery particular Churche neyther any thing sounding that way the Reader hath my wordes before his eyes let him consider whether you haue reported them truely or no. Surely if there were nothing else your ofte leasings might sufficiently conuince your doctrine of méere vanitie and forgerie But to returne to your Replie First I can not put any suche difference betwixte the Churche and a Christian common wealth the Church officers and christian Magistrates that they may not be comprehended vnder this worde vsed in this place by the Apostle For I vtterly renounce that distinction inuented by Papistes and maynteyned by you whiche is that Christian The Papists opinion of christian Magistrates Magistrates doe gouerne not in the respect they be Christians but in the respecte they be men and that they gouerne Christians not in that they be Christians but in that they be men Whiche is to giue no more authoritie to a Christian Magistrate in the Church of Christ than to the great Turke I am fully persuaded therefore that there is no suche distinction betwixte the Churche of Christ and a Christian common wealthe as you and the Papistes dreame of And therefore there is no cause why th Apostl maye not in this place vnder this worde Gouernours comprehende as well ciuill Magistrates as ecclesiasticall The whiche notwithstanding I doe not determinately affirme as likewise I haue not done in myne Answere for I would be glad to learne and to heare some reason to the contrarie Master Gualter seemeth to auour this opinion for expounding this place he sayth He comprehendeth seuenthly Gualter in Cor. 12. in this order gouernours vnder whome are conteyned ciuill persons whiche in worldly matters dyd ayde all men and had the hearing of causes if any fell out amongst the Christians And a little after There is no neede of suche publikely nowe a dayes seeing there are christian Magistrats by whose authoritie all these thinges may be better prouided for Moreouer the Apostle may meane in that place Bishops or Pastors of whome he made no mention before For you will not haue the office of a Pastor of a Doctor confounded wherefore you forget your selfe in saying that in this worde teachers he meaneth the minister that teacheth that is the Pastor for of him I am sure you meane Last of all I haue no where sayde that he meaneth one gouernour of the whole Church neyther haue I written one worde tending to that ende but this I say agayne whether the Apostle meaneth one ruler in euery congregation or mo is not héere determined and I sée no cause as I haue sayde whye in this place of th Apostle thys word Gouernours may not eyther signifie the Christian Magistrates o Ecclesiasticall as Archbishops Bishops or whatsoeuer other by lawfull authoritie are appoynted in the Churche neyther is there any reason to be shewed why he shoulde rather meane your Seniors than any other Magistrates Sure I am that there be learned men whiche thinke that the Apostle in this worde dothe comprehende Ecclesiae
gubernatores tum ciuiles tum ecclesiastic s The gouernours of the Church as well ciuill as ecclesiasticall Howsoeuer it is the place béeing doubtful it can not esta blishe the office of your Seniors as perpetuall Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision Admonition In steade of these Seniors in r Rom. 1 8 euery Churche the Pope hath brought in and yet we maynteyne the Lordship of one man ouer sundry churches yea ouer many shyres Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 115. Sect. vlt. You alleage in the margent these words in the. 12. to the Rom. He that exhorteth let hym vvayte on exhortation he that distribute h let him do it vvith simplicitie he that ruleth vvith diligence he that shevveth mercy vvith cherefulnesse To proue that in steade of these Seniors in euery Churche the Pope hath brought in and we yet maynteyne the Lordship of one man ouer many Churches c. I know not how this geare hangeth togither or to what purpose you should alleage that place it neyther proueth that in euery Churche there was Elders neyther that in place of them the Pope hathe brought in the the Lordship of one man ouer many Churches T. C. Pag. 139. Sect. 1. The same answere may be made vnto that which he sayth of the place to the Romanes where Cap. 12. speaking of the offices of the Church after that he had set foorth the office of the pastor and of the Doctor he addeth those other two offices of the Church wherof one was occupied in the gouernment onely the other in prouiding for the poore and helping the sicke And if besides the manyfest words of the Apostle in both these places I should adde the sentences of the writers vpon those places as M. Caluine M. Beza M. Martyr M. Bucer c. It should easily appeare what iust cause M. Doctor hath to say that it is to dally with the scriptures to make them a nose of waxe in alleaging of these to proue the Elders that al men might vnderstande what terrible outc ies he maketh as in this place so almost in al other when there is cause that he should lay his hande vpon his mouth Io. Whitgifte The like answere do I make to that place also that I made to y e former M. Caluine Caluine sayth that these words of the Apostle Qui pr est in diligentia he that ruleth with diligence may generally be extended ad praefecturas omne genus to all kind of rule or gouernment And M. Martyr vpon the same words sayth that he doubteth not multas fuisse in Martyr Beza ecclesia praefecturas that there were many gouernments in the Church M. Beza likewyse although he sayth that the Apostle in this worde vnderstandeth presbyteros yet he addeth qui ipsi interdū doctrinae verbo praeerant which also sometime dyd preach the word M. Bucer sayth playnely Est praeterea qui praeest qui pascendi regendi ecclesiā mun accepit Bucer Furthermore he doth rule whiche hathe receyued the office of feeding and gouerning the Church Wherby he must néedes vnderstand the Pastor not any vnpreaching Senior But what kinde of argument call you this he that ruleth must do it with diligence Ergo there must be Seniors in euery parish You should rather conclude thus therefore those to whome God hath committed any office of gouernment muste doe the same diligently and carefully So that although these learned mē do vnderstād this place of Seniors yet do they The place Rom. 12. is generall think y t it may also be vnderstāded of other magistrates gouernours therfore vpō their interpretatiōs you can not conclude any certentie of your Seniors And M. Beza séemeth by y e name of Seniors to vnderstād the ministers of the word that is Bishops pastors and there is no doubt but that y e Apostle in this place doth admonish al to be diligēt in their office that haue any kind of gouernmēt cōmitted vnto thē Wherfore you may not restraine this to any one particular kind of gouernmēt which y ◠Apostle hath generally spoken of al for that were in déede to dally with the scriptures to abuse them as the Papists do yea to make thē a nose of waxe as I haue sayd before Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision T. C. Pag. 139. Sect. 2. This I am compelled to write not so muche to pro e that there were Seniors in euery Churche which is a thing confessed as to redeeme those places from M. Doctors false and corrupt interpretations for as for the proofe of Elders in euery congregation esides his confession I neede haue no more but his owne reason For he sayth that the office of these Elders in euery Church ▪ was in that tun wherin there were no christian Magistrates and when there was perfecution but in the Apostles times there was bothe persecution and no christiā Magistrates therfore in their time the office of these Elders was in euery congregation Io. Whitgifte If this be a good argument S. Paule ad Rom. 12. sayth he that uleth must doe it diligently Ergo euery particular congregation muste of necessitie be gouerned by Seniors Or this the Apostle 1. Cor. 12. sayth that God hath placed in his Churche gouernours Ergo euery parish must haue a Seigniorie Or this Paule and Barnabas in euery Churche ordeyned pastors therefore in euery Church there must be a company of Seniors to whome the whole gouernment of the parish is to be cōmitted If I say these be good sure argumēts then haue I corruptly interpreted those places But if these arguments be not sounde if they haue no sequele in them if they be agaynst the practise of the Church euer since it had christian Magistrates and long before especially for suche Elders as you meane if this kinde of gouernment in many reformed Churches be not thought conuenient if it spoyle the Christian Magistrate of the authoritie giuen vnto him by the worde of God and finally if it bring in confusion then haue I truely interpreted those places and according to my duetie and calling deliuered them from your corruptions But the truthe of this matter shall more euidently appeare in that whiche followeth That whiche I haue sayde of the béeing of Seniors in euery Churche I saye still neyther is that the questiō for I aske y ◠question of your Seniors not of Ministers whome I call Seniors neyther dyd I meane that in euery particular parish there was suche a Seigniorie but in euery chiefe Citie nor that it was at all tymes in persecution and where there was no Christian Magistrate but ometimes neyther that this kinde of gouernment muste be in suche times but that it may be And therefore you had done well if you had not béene so sparing of your proofes for all my graunte ¶ VVhether the gouernment by Seniors ought to be perpetuall Chap. 2. the first Diuision T. C. Pag. 139. Sect. 2. I come therefore to the seconde
not followe that it shoulde be your Seigniorie whych you would haue in euery congregation to consiste of the Pastor and some other of his parishe but rather suche as Chrysostome calleth Prelates and Presidents which are Bishops Hom. 61. in Matth. such other chiefe gouernours But be it that this place admitted y e same sense that you would haue it to do yet do I answer you as M. Musculus answered y e Papists obiecting these words in effect to the same ende that you do that is to spoyle the Christian Magistrate of his authoritie in ecclesiasticall matters Obijciunt illud Christi dic Musc. tit de Magist. in lo. om ecclesiae Et si ecclesiam non audierit sit tibi velut Ethnicus Publicanus Respondeo Ecclesiae dei tum Magistratu pio ac fideli d stituebantur c. They obiect sayth he that place of Christ Dic ecclesiae tell the Churche and if he heare not the Church let him be to thee as an heathen and publicane I answere The Churches of God were then destitut of a godly and faythful Magistrate wherfore the iudgements betweene brethren brethren were exercised by Seniors in an ecclesiastical assembly as it was also vsual in christian Churches plāted by the Apostles But there is a far diuers cōdition of those Churches which by the benefite of God haue obteyned Princes and christian Magistrates who haue the chieftie power the making of lawes and gouernment not only in profane matters but also in diuine But that is a most pestilent errour whereby diuers men thinke no otherwise of the christian Magistrate than of a profane gouernment whose authoritie is to be acknowledged onely in profane matters And surely you do not one iote in this poynt differ from the opinion of the Papists Truthe it is that the place of Matthew may be vnderstanded of Seniors but it may as well be vnderstanded of any other that by the order of the church haue authoritie in the Church And séeing that it admitteth diuers interpretations as it dothe there can no suche platforme of necessitie be grounded vpon it Moreouer when Christe sayde Dic Ecclesiae there was no christian Churche establis ed but he speaketh according to the state of the Iewes Churche that then was vnder the Heathenish Magistrates as he also doth when he saythe If thy brother Matth. 5. trespasse agaynst thee c. leaue thine offering before the alter c. And to this doth M. Caluin agrée in his Harmonie expoūding y e same place And surely as of this place you may not conclude that in the Churche of Christ there ought to be suche offerings and alters so may you not on the other place conclude that there ought alwayes to be Seniors Naye muche lesse this than the other for this is doubtfull and the other is playne Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 141. Lin. 11. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. Furthermore S. Paule hauing entreated throughout y e whole first epistle to Timothie of y e orders which ought to be in y e church of God of the gouernmēt as himselfe witnesseth in the hird 1. Tim. 6. chapter of that Epistle when he saith he wrote that Epistle to teach Timothie how he should behaue himselfe in the house of God and hauing set foorth both Byshop Elder and Deacons as ministers and officers of the Church in the shutting vp of his Epistle he for the obseruation of all the orders of that Epistle adiureth Timothie with the inuocation of the name of God straightly chargeth him to obserue those things which he had prescribed in that epistle I charge thee saith he before God which quickn th all things and before Iesus Christ which witnessed vnder Pontius Pilate a good profession that thou keepe this commaundement without spot or blemish vntil the appearing of our Lord Iesus Christ. The weight of which sentence for the obseruing of those things which are mentioned in this epistle that it may be the better vnderstanded I will note the words seuerally First therfore it is to be noted that he saith I denounceor I charge he doth not say I exhort or giue counsell leauing it to the libertie of Timothie Secondarily it is to be noted that he calleth (*) This cannot be true as shall be declared the whole Epistle a commaundemēt and therfore it is no permission so that it may be lawfull for the churches to leaue it or to keepe it Thirdly when he maketh mention of e liuing God of Christ which witnessed a good profession vnder Pontius Pilate he sheweth that the things conteyned in this Epistl are such as for the maintenance thereof we ought not to doubt to giue our liues and that they be not suche as we ought to keepe so that we haue them without strife without sweate or easely but such as for the keeping of them if we haue them and for the obteyning of them if we haue them not I will not say ur honours or our commodi ies and wealth but as I haue sayd our liues oughte not to be deare vnto vs. For therefore doth he make mention of the confession of Christ vnto death that he might shew vs an example and foorthwith speaketh of God whiche rayseth from the dead that by thys meanes he might comfort Timothie if he should be brought into any trouble for the de ense of any of these things Fourthly if we referre those words without spot or blemish vnto the commaundement as I for my part thinke they ought to be then there is a waight in these wordes not to be passed ouer whiche is that the Apostle will not only haue the rules here conteyned not troden vnder the feete or broken in peeces but he will not haue them so much as in any one smal point or specke neglected But I see how M. Doctor will wipe away all this and say that these thinges or some of them were to be obserued thus necessaryly and precisely vntill there were christian princes and peace in the church but the print is deeper than that it wil be so washed away and therfore it is to be obserued what he sayth in the latter end of the sentence where he chargeth Timothie and in him al that he should keepe all these things not vntill the time of peace or to the times of christian princes but euen vntil the comming or appearing of our sauioure Christ which is as long as the world lasteth And therefore I conclude that the Seigniors or Elders of the Church being a part of that order and gouernment of the Churche which S. Paule appointeth in this Epistle are necessary perpetuall and by no meanes to be chaunged Io. Whitgifte Al this is but to blind y e eies of the Reader being indéede without all pith gr ūd The office of Seniors not mentioned in the. 1. Tim. much lesse commanded For first wher hath the Apostle in al that Epistle spokē one
with you in like maner say where doth any man charge them with so saying yet doth the same necessarily follow vpō their reason They say not the gouernment of a fewe of the best but of a companie which signifieth many and why should not this argument be good if the gouernment of a fewe godly men be better than the gouernment of one bicause one is easier ouerthrowne by bribing than moe then is also the gouernment of many godly men better than the gouernment of a few bicause a few may sooner be corrupted than many and consequently by the same reason the moe that gouerne the better This reason you haue glaunced by and not touched and yet it enforceth a manyfest absurditie agaynst the Authors of the Admonition For it is too absurde to saye that a Popular estate is the best state neyther will any affirme it but those which woulde be Popular You are neuer able to shew eyther by Diuinitie or Philosophie that there are moe There are no more lawfull kinds of gouernmēt than three lawfull kindes of gouernment than thrée that is Democraticall Aristocratical and Monarchicall and of these bothe the Scripture and Philosophie alloweth of the Monarchie as simply the best The gouernment of this kingdome is a right and true Monarchie Neither do you The gouernment of thys realme a true Monarchie know what a Monarchie is when you call it a mixt estate for that is called a Monarchie where the chiefe care and gouernment of the common wealth is committed to one as it is in this kingdome in euery respect Chap. 2. the. 21. Diuision T. C. Pag. 145. Sect. 1. It is sufficient nowe to admonish you that although it be graunted that the gouernment of 〈◊〉 be the best in the common wealth yet it can not be in the Church for the Prince may wel be Monarche immediatly betweene God and the common wealth but no man can be Monarch betweene God and his Church but Christ which is the onely head thereof Therfore the Monarchie ouer the whole Church and ouer euery particular Churche and ouer euery singular member in the Church is in Christ alone Io. Whitgifte If you meane of the vniversall Churche onely Christ is the head neyther hath he Christ the only head of hys vniuersall church any Uicegerent to supply that vniuersall care ouer the whole Churche But if you speake of particular Churches as the Churche of Englande the Churche of Denmarke c. then as the Prince is chiefe gouernour and head of the common wealthe The Prince head of a particular church vnder God so is he of the Churche likewise For it is certayne that the christian Magistrate vnder Christ hath as great authoritie as the Magistrate had vnder y e law But then the ciuill Magistrates had chiefe authoritie bothe in matters of the common wealth and of the Churche also as héereafter it shall more playnely appeare therefore the Magistrate ought to haue the same nowe in like maner T. C. doth but T. C. glaunceth at the magistrate glaunce at the Magistrate bicause he dare not speake playnly but suche licentious spéeches thoughe voyde of all reason and grounde may peraduenture sinke déeper into the heart of the subiects especially of the Papist who hathe already conceyued the same opinion of the ciuill Magistrate than will be rooted out in shorte time so carefull are these men in procuring to the Prince due obedience and so faythfull are they in maynteyning hir authoritie according to their othe and duetie Chap. 2. the. 22. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 114. Sect. 2. Pag. 132. Sect. 3. Both the names offices of Seniors were extinguished before Ambrose tyme as he himselfe dothe testifie writing vpon the fifth of the fyrst to Timothie In deede as Ambrose sayth writing vpon the fyfth of the fyrst to Timothie The Synagogue and after the Church had Seniors vvithout vvhose counsell nothing vvas done in the Churche but that was before hys time and before there was any christian Magistrates or any Churche established T. C. Pag. 145. Sect. 2. Last of al (*) Vntrue for it is not alleaged for that 〈◊〉 to proue that there ought to be no Seniors in the church vnder a christian Prince he citeth Ambrose authoritie both in the. 114. and. 132. pages which sayth that the Synagogue or Church of the Iewes and after that the Church of the Christians had Seniors without whose counsel nothing was done in the Church whervpon he concludeth that for as much as they were not in Ambrose time therefore they were not vnder a christian Prince Io. Whitgifte This is most vntrue I alleage not Ambrose in eyther of those places to proue that Seniors ought not to be vnder a christian Prince as the Reader may vnderstande euidently by my words Only I confesse that there was Seniors and I alleage Ambrose partly for that purpose partly to shewe that both their names and offices were extinguished before his time no man liuing can gather any other sense out of my words Wherfore that conclusion vpon Ambrose wordes is yours it is not myne and I am sory that malice hath throwne you so déepe into y e pit of vntruth that you can not be gotten out of it No cloake or shadow can couer this deformitie of yours Chap. 2. the. 23. Diuision T. C. Pag. 145. Sect. 2. And heere M. Doctor hathe in one sentence proclaymed bothe his great ignorance in the whole storie of the Church and withall cyther a maruelous abusion and 〈◊〉 him selfe to be mislead by some vnaduised prompter or subtile foxe that thought to deceyue him or else a notable cuill conscience whych wrastleth agaynst the truthe His ignorance dothe appeare partly in that he sayththat bicause there were no Seniors in Ambrose Church and in those Churches about him therefore there was none at all but most manifestly in that he sayth for so muche as there were no Seniors in Ambrose time therfore there was none vnder a christian Prince as though there were not many yeres before Ambrose time christian Emperours when as betweene the time of S. Ambrose beeing Bishop the time of Philip the sonne of Gordias the first christian Emperour there is more than 150. yeres and betwene the time of Constantine the Emperour and the time of Ambrose beeing Bishop there be aboue 80. yeres And if M. Doctor had euer read the Ecclesiasticall stories he mought haue (*) An vntruthe else name your stories found easily the Eldership moste florishing in Constantines time and other times when as the peace of the Christians was greatest Io. Whitgifte Except it were to set fóorth your owne knowledge to leaue a publike testimonie of your great humilitie and modestie you would not so immodestly accuse M. Doctor of ignorance though you had cōuinced him of it as you neyther haue done nor are able to do in that that he professeth Likewise except your selfe vsed prompters patched your
watring the grounde with the droppes of his teares he asked forgiuenesse But this proueth not that the people had anie authoritie in excommunicating of him In this Church of Englande though the Bishop alone doe excommunicate Excommunicate persons not receyued before publike confession and repentance yet he that is excommunicated for any notorious cryme is not receyued into the Churche againe before he haue made a publike confession in the open Congregation and asked pardon and forgiuenesse of his offence Wherefore there is nothing yet alledged of any such force to proue that Ambrose alone did not excommunicate Theodosius Chap. 1. the. 15. Diuision Admonition Act. 11. 30. Act. 15. 2. 4 ▪ 6. c. The sixtenth In that the Lord Bishops their Suffraganes Archdeacons Chauncelors Ro. 12. 7. 8 Phil. 1. 1. Officials Proctors Doctors Sumners and such rauening rablers take vppon them whiche is most horrible the rule of Gods Churche spoyling the Pastor (t) Mat. 18. 17. 18. of his lawfull iurisdiction ouer 1. Co. 12. 28 1. Thes. 5. 12 13. his owne flocke giuen by the worde thrusting away most sacrilegiously that order whiche Christ hath left to his Church and which the primitiue Church hath vsed 1. Tim. 4. 14 ▪ 1. Tim. 5. 17 Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 220. Sect. 1. And first you shewe yourselfe greatly offended that the Pastor is spoyled of his lawfull iurisdiction ouer his flocke therfore you brust out into these wordes of heat rauening rablers horrible sacrllegiously and such like It had bene well if you had tolde vs what that lawfull iurisdiction of the Pastor ouer his flocke giuen by the worde had beene For the places of Scripture which you quote for that purpose do not plainly enough set out that matter In the. 18. of Mathew vers 17. after certaine admonitions in priuate offences Christ sayth Dir Ecclesiae tell the Church In whiche place as I tolde you before the Church doth signifie such as haue authority in the Church or else publike reprehension in the open congregation by such as be called thereunto It giueth not any peculiar iurisdiction to the Pastor for any thing that I can learne And in the same Chapter 18. verse where Christ sayth vvhat soeuer ye binde on earth shall be bounde in heauen c. according to your iudgement vttered before it is ment of the whole Church and not of the Pastor onely You haue before denied that one man can excommunicate and therefore this place maketh nothing for your assertion T. C. Pag. 149. Lin. 21. In the. 220. and. 221. pages he speaketh of this thing afresh but hath no newe matter but maketh a bare rehearsall of the places of the Admonition asking after his accustomed maner of confuting what maketh this or what proueth that onely whereas he sayde before and proued as he thought that the Minister had onely to doe with excommunication beeing pressed there by the Admonition eyther to defende or renounce his Chauncelors c. He had rather denie both the truth and himselfe than he woulde haue any of that horrible confusion and prophanation of the holy discipline of God brought in by Poperie threatning the ouerthrowe of the whole Churche and seruing for nothing but for the nourishing of the ambition and ydlenesse of a fewe to be driuen out of the Church Of the which I will vpon occasion speake a worde if first I shewe that the vse of the auncient Church hath beene not to permit the excommunication to one but that the sentence thereof shoulde come from the gouernours and elders of the Church vnto whome that did especially apperteyne Although I cannot posse by that which maister Doctor sayeth that for so much as the Authours of the Admonition had alledged the wordes tell the Churche to proue the interest of the Churche in excommunication that therefore they coulde not vse the same to proue the interest of the Pastor as who shoulde say that the Pastor is not one of the Churche But of the absurditie of this I haue spoken sufficiently before and howe all men doe see the vanitie of this reason that bycause the people haue an interest by this place therefore the Pastor hath none Io. Whitgifte I do indéed speake of this matter there againe after a sort for I am driuen vnto it by the order of the Admonition But in all those words there by me vttered touching excōmunicatiō I do not once aske what maketh this or what maketh that as you charge me although I might iustly vse these kinde of questions as sufficient answeres to such vnskilfull quotations as they paint theyr margent with and somtimes indéed I make such demaundes but it is to shewe the fondnesse of their allegations I defende no Chauncelors c. that vsurpe any office wherevnto they be not lawfully called but I woulde not haue the Scriptures abused to confute them least thereby séeing the weaknesse of our reasons they be animated rather to procéede than perswaded to leaue of I doe not thinke that Chauncellours ought to excommunicate with this kinde of excommunication that wée talke of except they bée Ministers and so muche haue I vttered in my Answere but I will not disquiet the Church for it by séeking reformation extraordinarily neyther will I bée wilfull if I can heare any sounde reasons to remoue me from this perswasion wherfore you doe in this cause and in this place vniustly charge me The place in the eightéenth of Sainct Mathew is vnderstāded of those to whom the discipline of the Churche is by the authoritie of the Churche committed that is in this churche of Englande the Bishop And therfore that place can not proue that there is any iniurie done to the Pastor or that hée is spoyled of his lawful iurisdiction and this is the effect of my answere whereat you only cauill as your nature is I saye in déede that this place was before alleaged in the Admonition to proue that the whole Churche shoulde excommunicate and not one man onely and therefore I sée not howe the same place maye aptly bée alleadged to proue anye iurisdiction of the Pastor ouer his flocke séeyng it gyueth to the flocke equall iurisdiction with the Pastor and not to the Pastor any superioritie ouer them if the interpretation vsed in the Admonition be true Let the Reader consider the wordes of my Answere to the Admonition and trie whether there be any suche absurdities in them or no. Surely it is a fault both in you and the Admonitors to make the Scripture so pliable to your fansies and the same place to serue as many turnes as you lyst Chap. 1. the. 16. Diuision T. C. Pag. 149. past the middst But I come to shewe the vse of the primitiue Churche in this matter wherof we haue a manifeste This place of Tertullian is verie corruptly alleaged as will appeare ▪ testimonie in Tertullian If sayeth he there be any whiche haue committed suche a Tertull. in Apol.
vnto the poore and these are the Deacons And as in the former part I shewed there were two kindes so in this latter part the same is to be noted that of those whose charge was ouer the poore some had charge ouer all the poore of the Church as those which are called Deacons some had charge ouer the poore straungers and those poore which were sicke onely and those S. Paule calleth in one place Diaconisses and in an other place widowes 16. Rom. For the Deacons did distribute vnto the necessities as wel of the poore strangers the sick poore 1. Tim. 5. as vnto the other poore of the Church And the widowes did imploy their labors to she washing of the feete of y e strangers attending vpon the poore which were sick had no friends to keepe thē Io. Whitgifte There is no great matter in all this sauing only that I would gladly learne where the office of widowes Diaconesses is restreyned to poore straungers onely and such as be sicke féeing that the other poore that be neyther straungers nor sicke may néede their helpe in sundrie things as well as they and séeing also that neyther in the. 16. to the Rom. nor in the. 1. Tim. 5. which you quoted in the margent there is any such restraynt made or to be gathered but the contrarie almost in expresse wordes Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision Admonition Touching Deacons though their names be remayning yet is the office fouly peruerted and turned vpside downe for their dutie in the primitiue Church was to (s) Rom. 12. 8. gather the almes diligently and to distribute it faythfully also for the sicke and impotent persons to prouide painfully hauing euer a diligent care that the charitie of godly men were not wasted vpon loyterers (t) 2. Thes. 3. 10 and idle vagabonds Now it is the first step to the ministerie nay rather a mere order of Priesthoode Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 118. Sect. 2. In the whole 12. Chapter of the Epistle to the Romaines there is More perteyneth to the office of Deacons than prouision for the poore not one worde to proue the office of a Deacon to consist in gathering almes and distributing the same neyther yet doth he speake there of the office of a Deacon no more doth he in the thirde Chapter of the seconde Epistle to the Thessalo Lorde God what meane you thus to play with the Scriptures T. C. Pag. 152. Sect. 2. First I will speake of the Deacons and whereas M. Doctor crieth out of daliying with the scriptures for alledging the. 8. verse of the twelfe vnto the Romaines to proue Deacons affirming that there is no worde of them Truly I can find no wordes to set forth this so grosse ignorance And had it not beene enough for master Doctor to haue vttered this ignorance but he must also with an outcrie proclaime it and as it were spread the banner of it What doe these wordes note he that distributeth in simplicitie but the office of the Deaconship for in that place S. Paule reekeneth vy all the ordinarie and perpetuall offices of the Church as the office of the Doctor of the Pastor of the Deacon of the elder and leaueth not out so much as the widow which he noteth in these wordes shewing mercie If the Authours of the Admonition do dally with the scriptures in this place surely Master Caluine Master Beza Master Bucer Peter Martyr c. doe dally with them And shall all these be esteemed to play with the Scriptures And Master Doctor onely to handle them seriously Io. Whitgifte I thinke rather this clause he that distributeth let him do it with simplicitie is Rom. 12. 8. spoken to such as be able to helpe the poore that they should do it willingly and simplie for Christes sake not for vaine glorie or any other like respect For the whole scope of that Chapter is to moue such as beléeue in Christ to good lyfe and conuersation neyther doth the Apostle speake of the Ministers of the Church onely but of all Christians of what vocation or calling so euer they be And therefore this sentence being generall and spoken to all of abilitie it may also include Deacons but I sée not how it can be particularly restreyned to them Origen vpon this place saith The Origen in 12. Rom. Apostle sayth that he which giueth and bestoweth any thing vpon the poore must do it in simplicitie of heart that is that he seeme not to benefite the poore and in heart seeke the prayse of men VVherefore it is not simplicitie if one thing seeme to be done outwardly and in heart another be sought for Chrysostome likewise expounding these wordes Chrysost. in 12. Rom. sayth It sufficeth not to giue but it must also be done bountifully c. So doth the Gréeke Scholiast Theodorete Theophilact Ambrose Hierome all these do vnderstand this place not of the Deacons who distribute other mens almes but of such as giue almes themselues and relieue the poore with theyr owne substance Master Bullinger also doth admit and well allowe this interpretation Wherfore you sée that I haue good grounde of my saying when I sayde that he did not speake there of the office of a Deacon You say that Paule reckeneth vp here all ordinarie and perpetuall offices of the Churche but you speake it onely you proue it not he speaketh here of prophecying and you denie the office of a Prophete to be perpetuall You say he speaketh here of Wydowes and I denie their office to be perpetuall Moreouer it is certaine that hee speaketh in this place of gyftes profitable to the Churche and some of them common as well to Ciuill as to Ecclesiasticall persons as all learned Fathers in theyr Commentaryes vppon this place doe confesse and so doeth Maister Bullinger in lyke manner and so I thinke muste all other doe that well consyder the drift of S. Paule in that Chapter and the profitable lessons the Apostle th re giueth to all and euerie sort of men Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 152. Sect. 2. And as Master Doctors ignorance appeareth in this place so his minde not 〈◊〉 of the truth but seeking to cauill doth as manifestly shew it selfe For all men see that the Admonition alledgeth not the place to the Thessalonians to proue the office of Deacons but to shewe that ydle vagabonds might not haue any of that reliefe which belongeth vnto those which be poore in deede which thing appeareth both by the placing of the quotation ouer agaynst that allegation and by the letter which directeth therevnto Io. Whitgifte Bilike that place was onely quoted for the phrase else I sée not to what ende i serueth except it be to proue the office of a Deacon For to what purpose should they note it to proue that ydle vagabondes shoulde haue none of that reliefe séeing that is not denyed nor yet in question Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision T. C.
149. Sect. 1. And what reason can you giue why you should not aswell all owe Scilicet the Communion booke of it by subscription as you say that you haue hitherto done by vsing of it in your ministerie Will you speake one thing and doe an other Will you not subscribe to that whiche you publikely vse and giue your consent vnto T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 1. The Admonition hath no such thing as M. Doctor chargeth the authors therof with that they dyd euer allow of the booke of seruice It sayth they bare with it and vsed it so farre as they might and therfore nowe when it came to the approuing of it by subscription they refused and there is no man which can not vnderstande that it is one thing to beate with a thing and an other to approue it and therfore to beare and to vse it so farre as might be may well agree with their refusall of subscription so that M. Doctors note is not worth the noting The Apostles did beare with the infirmitie of the Iewes addicted to the obseruation of the ceremoniall lawe yet they neuer allowed that infirmitie and they were so farre from approuing it by subscribing that they wrote agaynst it Io. Whitgifte They say they haue not only borne with it but vsed it also in their ministerie c. he that vseth a thing doth as much allowe of it by vsing as he could doe by subscribing But I will not contende with you about a matter of so small weight for neyther is their learning discretion or iudgement suche that the booke is better or worse for their allowing or disallowing of it They shew their natures bent to contention and vnreuerent estimation of the scriptures by abusing of them and that is all that can be gathered out of their booke The Apostles refused not to subscribe vnto such things as they permitted vnto the Iewes for a time neyther did they beare with any thing for their infirmitie agaynst the which they wrote If they haue done any such thing note the place Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 149. Sect. 1. If those persons by whome this booke was first authorised were studious of peace and of buylding vp of Christes Church as you say they were then you that seeke to deface it are disturbers of peace and destroyers of the Churche of Christ. They were singular learned men zelous in Gods religion blamelesse in life and Martyrs at their end for eyther al or the most part of them haue sealed this booke with their bloud But by the A note by the waye way this is to be noted that you confesse your selues to haue allowed that by vsing of it which you say is agaynst the worde of God T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 1. Those sayth M. Doctor which authorised this booke were studious of peace and of buylding of Christes Church therfore they that speake agaynst it which he calleth defacing are disturbers of the peace and destroyers of the Church So I will reason (*) Vnequal com parisons For in these poyntes they were not buylders vp of Christes church Gedeon was studious of peace and of building of the Church therefore they whyche spake agaynst the Ephod whyche he made were disturbers of the peace and destroyers of the church We speake agaynst Images in churches and consubstantiation in the sacraments such lyke which Luther beeing studious of peace and of the building of the church did holde and yet we are not therfore disturbers of peace or destroyers of the church Although they were excellent personages yet their knowledge was in part and although they brought many things to our light yet they beeing sent out in y e morning or euer the sunne of the Gospell was risen so hygh might ouersee many things which those that are not so sharpe of sight as they were may see for bicause that which they want in the sharpnesse of sight they haue by the benefite and clearnesse of the sunne and of the light They sealed not the booke of seruice with their bloud as M. Doctor sayth for some that suffered for the truth declared openly their misliking of certayne things in it and as for the other they could neuer dye for that booke more than for the Lyturgie vsed in the French church or at Geneua For they receyued not the sentence of condemnation bicause they approued that booke but bicause they improued the articles drawne out of the Masse booke And if they had dyed for that booke as in deede they dyed for the booke of God yet the authoritie of their martyrdome coulde not take away from vs this libertie that we haue to enquire of the cause of their death Iustine and Cyprian were godly Martyrs and yet a man may not say that they sealed their errours whiche they wrote wyth their bloud or wyth this glory of their martyrdome preiudice those which speake or write agaynst their errours for this is to oppose the bloud of men to the bloud of the sonne of God Io. Whitgifte These be the words of the Admonition they saye that the Authors of that booke were studious of peace and of the building vp of Christes Churche and therefore vpon their owne words and confession I grounde mine argument This peace that they were studious of and sought to maynteyne by collecting and authorising this booke was a godly peace sought to be maynteyned by godly meanes and therefore suche as shall deface that godly meanes wherby they procured peace can not de iudged otherwyse than disturbers of the same peace Gedeon by making the Ephod did not séeke peace but rather glory for he erected Gedeons Ephod it to be a monument of his victorie Gedeon erected the Ephod for an other ende and purpose than God did appoynt it the Ephod that Gedeon made was the cause of idolatrie Likewise Images are expresly forbidden in the word of God there is a direct cōmaundement agaynst them so is consubstātiation also But the booke of common prayer is framed according to the scriptures appoynted to the true worshipping of God most repugnant to all Idolatrie Idolatrous worshipping and therfore these similitudes exāples that you vse be nothing like it is neither like to Gedeons Ephod ▪ nor maynteineth Luthers Images or consubstantiation but ouerthroweth them all Their knowledge was in parte in that sense that the Apostle speaketh Ex parte The prayse of the makers of the booke enim cognoscimus ex parte prophetamus VVe knowe in part and we prophecie in part c. But if they be compared vnto men I thinke for learning zeale godlynesse sounde 1. Cor. 1 iudgemēt most of thē haue not bin ouermatched by any that hath folowed And surely their learning iudgement was singular But no maruell it is though you make so small account of me poore wretch when you so basely speake of them Undoubtedly in cōparison of your selues I thinke you contēne
as you are not able to proue that it is yet muste it receiue the same answer with the former argumente being of the same nature vnlesse you will say that we must not come néere vnto our riendes graue or place where he is buried we must not weare any of his apparell come in or neare the place where he dyed beholde any thing that may put vs in mynde of hym with an infinite suche like thinges bycause all these moue affections in a kynde harte and prouoke it to wéeping But i is the affection of the mynde that is to be moderated and brideled and not the lawfull vse of decent and ciuill orders to be condemnad ▪ For if we admit such causes and excuses I sée not how any orders eyther ecclesiasticall or cy ill especially in indifferent things can be mainteined If any man weare such apparell There is both a lawfull and an vnl w full vse of mour ing apparell of purpose to prouoke sorrow he is not to be excused if for order and ciuilitie he is to be commended And surely I sée not why the wearing of mourning apparell should not be profitable to put a man in minde of his owne mortalitie seeing it carieth a remembrance of death with it and I thinke it rather woorketh this effecte in the wearer than the other that you speake of The antiquitie of this apparell appeareth in this that by your owne confession it was in Cyprians time as it appeareth in that 4. ser. demortalitate where he dothe not so much speake against the mourning apparell as he dothe againste mourning immoderatly and surely if the thing had bin so greatly to be misliked it shoulde not still haue had continuance in the Church as it had for Augustine likewise speaketh of it serm 2. de consolat mort to the same effect that Cyprian doth But there is no suche immoderate mourning for the dead in these dayes the contrary rather appeareth Chap. 6. the. 5. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 200. Sect. 1. 2. But wherein haue funerall sermons offended you or with what Funerall sermons face of brasse dare you liken them to trentalls what similitude is there betwixt a godly sermon and the wicked Masse In what one Sermons most nece sary at 〈◊〉 poynt are they like or how dare you condemne such sermons being then most necessary and most profitable what is there a more fitte time to entreate of the mortalitie of man and shortnesse of his days of the vanitie of this worlde of the vncertaintie of iches of the resurrection of the iudgemente to come of eternall life and of euerlasting deathe and of infinite other most necessary poyntes than that wherin we haue a present example before our eyes when is ther a more meete time to beate downe trentalls sacrificing for the dead prayers for the dead Purga orie and suche like than that wherein they were accustomed to be most vsed Su ely there is as much difference Sermons wickedly compared to trentalls betwixt our funerall sermons and the papisticall masses and trentalls as there is betwixt cold and hote blacke and white light and darknesse truth and lies Heauen and Hell But belike there is some other priuate cause that maketh you to reiecte funerall sermons You saye that in the best refourmed churches they are remoued I Funerall sermons allowed of M. Caluine thinke you saye not truly and I am sure that M. Caluine dothe very well like and allow of them as appeareth in the forme of common prayers vsed of the English Church in Geneua by him allowed But if it be so I tell you plainly for my parte I like not that reformation excepte there be weightier reasons than eyther you vse or I can perceiue I am sure that in auncient churches of long time they haue bin vsed and the same you may see in the moste aunciente and best learned fathers T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 1. Now touching the funerall sermons M. Doctor taketh on and triumpheth maruellously as though he had already gotten y e victory but he that girdeth his harnesse should not boast as he that putteth it of Ther is more matter than peraduenture M. Doctor is aware of and that which is set downe he answereth not as that it nourisheth an opinion that y e dead are the better for it which doth appeare in that ther are none more desirous of funeral sermōs than y e Papists which although they cannot abide the doctrine whiche is preached yet they will haue suche sermons and those which will very seldome or not at all be at other sermons will not commonly misse one of these Furthermore for so much as the minister is driuē oftentimes by this meanes to preach vpō a suddeyne the worde of God thereby is negligently handled especially of those whose giftes are not so gre t as that they can prouide in so sma l time and by this negligent handling of the worde of God it is brought into contempte Io. Whitgifte Surely M. Doctor may well triumphe that so good a cause hath no stronger aduersaries Funerall sermons nourish not an opinion that the dead are the better for them Your argumentes are too too slender and in déede very friuolous The first is this that they nourishe an opinion that the dead are better for them of the which argumente bicause you are ashamed your selfe you father it vpon the Admonition wherin there is not one worde spoken of any such reason But why doth a funerall sermon nourish that opiniō forsooth bicause the Papistes be most desirous of them First it is very strange to say that sermons nourishe an opinion y t the dead are the better for them when it is well knowen that both he that preacheth thinketh otherwise the ende of preaching is to roote out of mens heartes such persuasions which kinde of sermōs be most mete at that time to be vsed when such especial occasiōs be offered Secōdly it is as strange to thinke that Papistes should for any such cause desire them who are persuaded the doctrine that is taught to be flat heresie and the preacher to be none of the church and surely it is a strange fansie that can imagine a Papiste to thinke that sermon to helpe the dead which condemneth prayer for the dead Purgatorie Masses Diriges Merites and such like Popish trashe wherein the Papistes place all their hope of helpe for the dead Wherfore if Papistes be so desirous of these sermons which I can not beleue and in many of them it is indéede vntrue it is rather to auoyde the suspition of Papistrie than to procure any helpe to the dead The seconde argument you will haue this The minister is driuen by this meanes to T. C. forgetteth him selfe preache of a suddeyne and thereby the worde of God is negligently handled c. and is this so good a reason Do you remember what you answered before for the defense of preaching twyse in a
many things out of order and that not by the iudgement of the Admonition and fauourers thereof onely but euen of all whiche are not willingly blinde I say if he do not amende these speaches the crime of false prophecie will sitte closer vnto him than he shall be euer able to shake of in the terrible day of the Lorde Io. Whitgifte There muste be as well rewardes for those that haue spent much time in getting There muste be rewardes for learning already atteyned learning and be learned as there muste be meanes to maynteyne men whiles they be in learning Grammer schooles and the Uniuersities serue for the one and Cathedrall churches with such other preferments serue for the other spoyle the one and the other can not possibly stande Your immodest and vncharitable speaches worke most discredite to your selfe That which I speake of other Churches by way of comparison I speake for the truth of the doctrine sincere administration of the Sacramentes and all other poynts of Religion by publike authoritie established in this Realme wherein I say agayne that there is no cause why it should giue place to any Churche that n we is And yet I do not defende the faultes of men or other corruptions from the which no Church is frée But for the cryme of false prophecie wherewith you charge me I truste it be farre from me I woulde pronenesse to contention and vncharitable iudging ▪ were as farre from you Howbeit we both must stand or fall to our owne Lord and therefore it is no good iudging before the time ¶ Of ciuill Officies in Ecclesiasticall persons Tract 23. A triall of the places alleaged by the Admonition agaynst such ciuill offices as are exercised by Ecclesiasticall persons in this realme Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision T. C. Pag. 165. Sect. 3. The places alleaged by the Admonition to prone that ministers of the church may not intermeddle with ciuill functions one onely excepted are well and fitly alleaged and most of them vsed to that ende of writers which if I should name (*) Lorde howe lowe would you throwe him downe all would confesse that they are such as with whom M. Doctor is not worthy to be so much as spoken of the same day Io. Whitgifte ▪ This is more than modestie would suffer and tootoo outrageous for whatsoeuer the worthinesse of these men is otherwise yet am Ia minister of the woorde as well as they I am a member of the Church of Christ as well as they I am bought with his bloud as well as they therfore to say that I am not worthie to be so much as spokē of the same day wherein they are named is but extréeme immodestie passing contempt There is not so much attributed to Iesus Christ nor the Popes flatterers did neuer so excessiuely extoll him Are they so woorthie that a man may not be spoken of the same day that they are named who be they trowe we or what is their names But belike you are afrayde to name them least by speaking of me the same day you shoulde do vnto them some great dishonour in your iudgement they are better than God himselfe for the simplest that is may be named the same day that God is In déede a pretie cloake to couer your vayne bragging for I thinke you woulde haue named them if you had knowne them But to the matter Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision Admonition Moreouer in that they haue s Luc. 9. 60. 61. Luc. 12. 14. Rom. 12. 7. 1. Tim. 6. 11 2. Tim. 2. 3. 4. Bishops pri sōs popishe Eugenius the firste bringer of them in ciuill offices ioyned to the Ecclesiasticall it is agaynst the worde of God As for an Archbishop to be a Lorde president a Lord Bishop to be a Countie Palatine a prelate of the Garter who hath much to do at S ▪ Georges feast when the Bible is caried before the Procession in the crosses place a Iustice of peace or Iustice of Quorum an high Commissioner c. And therfore they haue their prysons as Clinkes G t houses Colehouses towres and astles which is also agaynst the Scriptures This is not to haue keyes but swordes and playne tokens they are that they exercise that which they would so fayne seeme to wante I meane dominion ouer theyr brethren Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 214. Sect. 2. To proue that ciuill offices ioyned to the Ecclesiasticall is against the worde of God first you note Luke 9. verse 60. 61. where it is thus writtē And Iesus sayd vnto him let the dead burie the dead but go thou and preach the kingdome of God Then an other sayd I wil follow thee Lord but let me first go bid them farevvell vvhich are at my house How conclude you any thing of these places against ciuill offices in Ecclesiastical persons Christs meaning in this place is to teache vs I meane all Christians that when he calleth vs we ought not to be hindred from following and that forthwith by any excuse of doing dutie towards our friends or respect of worldly commoditie or for feare of any payne or trouble and this is spoken generally to all Christians and not alone to any one kinde of men T. C. Pag. 165. Sect. 4. For the first place if so be that the minister ought rather to leaue necessarie duties of burying 9. Lu his father and saluting his friendes vndone than that he shoulde not accomplishe his ministerie to the full much more he ought not to take vpon him those things which are not onely not necessarie dueties but as it shall appeare do in no case belong vnto him And although it may be applied to all Christians yet it doth most properly belong vnto the ministers Io. Whitgifte This is no answere to that which I haue sayde for I say that the meaning of Christ in this place is that when we are called to eternall life by him we ought not to protracte the time nor to séeke any delayes but leaue all and follow him this is the meaning of Christ this is the summe of my Answere and to this you say nothing but make a new collection that the minister ought rather to leaue necessarie duties of burying his father c. which though it be not the direct sense of this place yet I graunt it to be true for such ciuill offices as I allow in Ecclesiasticall persons are helpes for them to do their duties Wherefore as this place is vnaptly applied by the Admonition so is it vnanswered by you it may as well be vsed to debarre anyother Christians from ciuill functions as ministers of the woorde Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 215. Sect. 1. Secondly for the same purpose you vse Luke 12. verse 14. where Christ speaking to him that sayde vnto him Master bid my brother deuide the inheritance vvith me answereth on this sorte Man vvho made me a iudge or a deuider ouer you Christ came in
buyers and sellers out of the temple what office did Paule committe to Timothy when he sayde aduersùs Presbyterum c I woulde not haue a mynister to be a warriour or a farmer or a marchant or haue any such like osfice which consisteth in gayne or bodily labour only But why he may not haue suche an office as is profitable to encrease godlinesse and punish vngodlinesse I heare as yet no reason As for the office of an high commissioner it is Ecclesiasticall for they haue to do only in causes Ecclesiasticall T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. 1. And for Elye and Samuell they are extraordinarie examples whiche may thereby appeare for that both these offices first meeting in Melchisedech and afterwarde in Moses were by the commaundement of God seuered when as the Lorde toke from Moses beyng so wise and godly a man the Priesthoode and gaue it to Aaron and to his successors And so for so much as when the Lord would polishe his churche make it famous renoun ed in the world he gaue this order it appeareth that he would haue this to be a perpetuall rule vnto his church And by so much it is the clearer for that the Lorde did not tarie vntill Moses death but tooke the priesthoode away from Moses which was a man as able to execute both as eyther Elye or Samuell Io. Whitgifte It is not certayne whether Moses were euer Priest or no for where it is sayd It is doubtfull whether Moses were priest in the. 99. Bsalme Moses Aaron in sacerdotibus eius the Hebrewe worde is doubtfull and signifieth as well a Prince as a Priest therefore vpon this place it cannot necessarily be concluded that Moses was a Priest Moreouer at that time the chiefe rulers men of greatest authoritie were called Priestes but you neuer redde that Moses offered vp any sacrifices for sinne which was the proper office of the Priest Neyther can you tell vs where he was euer consecrated Priest In déede Harding against the Apologie doth alledge this example at Moses being as he sayeth both a ciuill Magistrate and a Priest to proue that the Pope may be both King and Priest But be it as you say that these two offices were distinguished in Moyses Aaron that the Priests office which consisteth in offering oblations sacrifices was taken from him yet did he kéepe still his former authoritie in gouerning the church and in prescribing to Aaron what he should do euen in matters perteyning to the worship of God so that these two offices I meane ciuill and Ecclesiasticall are not so distinct but that they may both aptly well méete ioyne togither Further more Ciuill and ecclesiasticall offices mette in one you know that howsoeuer the priesthood ciuill Magistracie were deuided in Moses and Aaron yet mette they both togither againe not onely in Elye Samuell but in Es ras Nehemias Mattathias and some other which examples proue that vpon occasion these offices may meete togither in one Person they quite ouerthrow your allegation of Moses Chap. 3. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Pag. 170. Sect. 1. And this may be also easily seene for that in a manner alwayes where there was any good stayde estate of the church these offices were ministred by seueral persons and then mette and were mingled when the estates were very ruinous and miserable A d if this be a good reason to proue that ministers may exercise ciuill offices it is as good a reason to proue that princes may preach and minister the Sacraments For if the ministers may exercise ciuill offices bicause Elye Samuell beyng ministers did so the Princes and iudges may preach the worde and mynister the Sacraments bicause Elye and Samuell being Princes and iudges did so And so we see how M. Doctor going about to desend one confusion bringeth in an other Io. Whitgifte Here you confesse that which hetherto in your whole booke you haue denied and T. C. confesseth the groūd of all these cōtrouersies that which is in deede the whole grounde of the chiefe matters in controuersie that is that the gouernment of the Churche may be diuerse according to the diuersitie of the time and state of the same as in the time of persecution it may be otherwise gouerned than in time of peace otherwise when the state is established than when it is ruynous and in decaye for say you In a manner alwayes where there was any good and stayed estate of the church these offices were ministred by seuerall persons and then mette and were mingled when the estates were very ruynous Thus haue you graunted of your owne accorde that which hitherto you haue so stifly and stoutly denied such is the might force of the truth And yet the church was in good state all Sainuels time and the moste parte of Elyes also for any thing that I can reade to the contrarie I brought in those examples to proue that these offices haue mette togither and The state of y e controuerūe altered by the Replier therefore be not so diuers as you would make them I do not vse them to this ende that I would haue a Priest to be a King you know the state of our question is onely whether Bishops may exercise those ciuill functions of Iusticeship of Peace and such like which the Prince committeth vnto them or no and not whether they may sitte in the Princes throne and take hir Scepter out of hir hande whether she will or no as the Pope doth And therfore whereas you saythat by these exāples of Elye and Samuell I may as well conclude that Princes may preach the worde and minister the sacraments as Priests and ministers execute cruill offices I thinke you do not consider that these ciuill offices be but accidents to the priesthode therefore may well be remoued as they were from Samuell when Saule was chosen King for Samuell kepte his Priesthoode though he lost his ciuill authoritie but the Priesthoode is not so to the cyuill magistrate except he will be ordinarily and lawfully admitted therevnto I thuike that there is no degree of dignitie that maketh a man vnmeete for the ministerie if he be therevnto lawfully called and haue other giftes méete for the same wherefore as it followeth not that a minister in the respect that he is a minister ought to haue a ciuill office but that he may haue one if he be by the ciuill Magistrate therevnto appoynted so it doth not follow that a ciuill Magistrate ought to be a minister of the woorde but that he may be if he be méete and therevnto ordinarily and lawfully called and admitted The Prieste may not take vpon him the office of the ciuill Magistrate vnlesse he be called lawfully vnto it nor the ciuill Magistrate may not take vpon him the office of a Priest vnlesse he be ordinarily therevnto admitted And this is no confusion at all Chap. 3. the. 10. Diuision
where greate complaynte is made of this greeuous persecution when as you and your disciples cease not as I sayde moste falsely and slaunderously to reporte of suche as executing good lawes discharge theyr conscience to God and their duetie towardes the Prince We therefore exhorte you if there be any feare of God before your eyes any reuerence towards the Prince any desire of promoting the Gospell any louing affection towardes the Church of Christe to submit your selues according to your dueties to godly orders to leaue off contentiousnesse to ioyne with vs in preaching of the word of God and beating downe the kingdome of Antichriste that thys your diuision procure not Gods wrath to be poured vpon vs. T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 2. Here M. Doctor contrary to the pretestation of the authours of the Admonition whiche declare that for the abuses and corruptions they dare not simply subscribe saithe that therefore they will not subscribe bycause they are required by lawfull authoritie which how both presumptuous and vncharitable a iudgement it is let all men iudge especially vpon this matter whiche hath bin declared And where M. Doctor would vpon y ◠marginal note pr y t we haue good discipline bycause we haue good doctrine ther vpon doth wonderfully triumph he playeth as he of whome it is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is hauing gotten nothing holdeth it fast For can M. Doctor be so ignorant that this manner of speach doctrine and discipline cannot be s uered is vsed of that that they ought not to be seuered ▪ when as we say following S. Paule that we can do nothing against the truth do we not meane that we ought to do nothing or can do nothing lawfully against it And do not all men know when we say that a man cannot be separated from his wife but for the cause of A ultery that we meane he ought not or he cannot lawfully Therefore this is as all men may see a meere cauill and triumph ouer his owne shadow There is no bragge of suffering made by the authours of the Admonition The modestie wherwith he hath defended this cause cannot be hidden That he would haue other men punished for well doing when he is not content that the open wrongs which he doth should be once spoken of I haue shewed how vnreasonable it is Io. Whitgifte I speake of their denying to subscribe to the Articles concerning the substance of doctrine which they confesse to be sound vsing a godly interpretation in a poynt or two c. what other abuses so euer there be in the booke of common prayer or in the Church yet that is no sufficient cause why they shoulde refuse to subscribe to the truth of doctrine professed in this Church and conteyned in those Articles Wherefore séeing they confesse them to be sound and yet denie to subscribe who can otherwise iudge of them than I haue signifyed in my Answer I acknowledge my selfe to be ignorante that in this and suche like phrases thys Can is not taken for ought if it be spoken simply word Can is taken for ought When Saint Paule saithe that we can do nothing againste the truth he meaneth simply as he speaketh and doth not there vse Can for ought For indeede we can do nothing against the truth though we do the worst we can It is no vsuall phrase but an vnproper kind of speach to say that a man cannot do a thing when he should say that he ought not to do it except he adde some thing as he cannot do it lawfully or well or orderly and such like Wherefore my dulnesse is such that I cannot vnderstande suche darke speaches vntill they be interpreted and yet whether they woulde so interprete themselues or no it maye be doubted If they bragge not of persecution wherevnto tende these wordes of theirs this is that we striue for about which we haue suffered not as euill doers c. and quote in the margent to proue it 1. Pet. 3. as though they were persecuted by infidels How immodest soeuer I am in defending this cause yet if it be compared eyther to Schismatiks deserue to be sharply reproued their passing bitternesse or to your spitefull speaches and vnséemely tauntes and iestes I shall appeare tootoo simple and although I must néedes say thus much that disturbers of the common peace of the Churche and Schismatikes deserue to be with sharpe wordes reproued yet haue not I vsed that sharpenesse and bitternesse whyche diuerse learned menne bothe olde and newe haue vsed in the lyke case If I haue done any man wrong let him come foorth and proue it and I will render vnto him quadruple T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 3. Finally as you exhort vs to submitte ourselues to good order whiche haue bin alwayes and yet are ready to do to leaue to be contentious which neuer yet began to ioyne with you in preaching the word of God which haue stopped our mouthes and will not suffer vs to preache so we exhort you in Gods behalfe and as you will once answer it before the iust iudge that you will not willingly shut your eyes against the truth that if the Lord vouchsafe to open it vnto you you kicke not against it Wherefore we pray you to take heede that neither the desire of keeping your wealth and honoure which you are in nor the hope which you may haue of any further promotion nor yet the care of keeping your estimation by mainteining that whiche you haue once set downe nor the sleighey suggestion of craftie and wyly Papists do driue you to stumble against this truth of God which toucheth the gouernment of his Church and the purging of those corruptions whiche are amongst vs knowing that you cannot stumble vpon the word of God but foorthwith you runne yourselfe against Christ which is the rocke And you know that he will not giue back but breaketh all to fitters whatsoeuer that rusheth against him Io. Whitgifte You do not submit your selues to the order of the Church which is a good and decent order you haue filled the Churche with maruellous contentions and haue strangely deuided euen such as professe the Gospell your mouthes are not stopped but through your owne procuring I do not withstand that which you vntruly call the truth for any such cause as you surmise God who seeth my hart knoweth but bycause I sée these your deuises to be set downe by you without any sufficient warrant in the word of God agaynste the practise and order of the primitiue Churche tending also to daungerous errours and meere confusion both of the Church and of the common wealth T. C. Page 172. Sect. vlt. And if the matter herein alleadged do not satisfye you then I desire euen before the same GOD that you confute it not by passing ouer thynges whyche you can not answer or by stauing both the words and the meaning of the booke and taking your owne fansie to confuce or by wrougling
tayle for the tayle of the beast as learned Tayle of Antichrist what it is mē say be false Prophets Hypocrites such as stirre vp Schismes factions among true Christians and by pretence of zeale by cloaked and coloured meanes seeke to draw into the church Antichrist backward as Cacus did the oxen into his denne Io. Whitgifte To these things y e Replier hath giuen his consent as it should séeme by his silence ¶ Articles collected out of the former Admonition and vntruly sayd of the fautors of that Admonition to be falsified To the end of the second Admonition there is ioyned A reprofe of certaine Articles collected as it is thought by the Bishops for so they say out of a litle booke entituled An Admonition to the Parliament c. But as I thinke it may rather be termed a recantation or if you will a reformatiō or mitigatiō of certen articles in that first admonition rashly setdowne without learning or discretion printed 1. Fol. 3. lib. 1. pag. 2. First they hold affirme that we in England are not yet Scarce the face of a Church come to the outward face of a church agreable to Gods worde Here you finde fault that this worde scarce is left out Indeede this word scarce was written in the margent of diuers copies of the first Admonition whether it were so in all or no I know not no more do I whether any such collectiō as you pretend was made But what neede you so muche sticke in wordes when the thing is manifest for in effect they denie as much as that proposition importeth they wholy condēne the mynisterie the ceremonies the gouernment of this church They say the sacraments be full of corruptions in theyr second Admonition Fol 42. they say that the sacraments are wickedly māgled prophaned they vtterly condēne our order māner of common prayer yea in effect our doctrine also for in their secōd Admonitiō Fol. 7 they say that although some truth be taught by some preachers yet no preacher may without daūger of the lawes vtter all truth comprised in the booke of God What can be spoken more slenderly of the doctrine preached in this church A mā may truly speake as much of the Romishe churche for some truthe is taught by some Papists yea some truth is taught by some Iewe Turke When therfore you say that in this church neither the worde is truly preached nor the sacramēts sincerely ministred nor yet Ecclesiasticall discipline which thre in the first Admonition Fol. 3. is sayde to be the outwarde markes whereby a true Christian church is knowne and also condemne our mynisterie as Popish and vnlawfull with the whole gouernment of Vix ▪ signifieth somtime non our Church as you do in playne termes may it not be truely sayde that you affirme vs in England as yet not to be come to the outward face of a church agreable to Gods worde Furthermore what doth this word scarce helpe the matter doth it not importe as much it is a rule in Philosophie Quod vix fit non fit that vvhich is scarce done is not done T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 3. 4. 5. As for Answere to the Articles collected out of the Admonition it is made in the Replie vnto M. Doctors booke where I haue shewed how the Admonition is misconstrued and taken otherwise than eytherit meameth or speaketh wherevnto I will referre the Reader And albeit I haue shewed how vntrue it is that the Admonition affirmeth that there is no church in England yet I can not passe by the secrete Philosophie whereby M. Doctor woulde proue that the Authors of the Admonition affirme it For sayth he by y e rule of Philosophie Quod vix fit non fit that which is scarse done is not done I say this is secrete for it was neuer taught neyther in Academia nor in stoa nor Lyceo I haue redde Quod fere fit non fit that which is almost done is not done But I neuer remember any such rule as M. Doctor speaketh of And besides that in our tongue those things which are sayd to be scarce are notwithstanding oftentimes supposed to be As when a man sayth that there is scarce a man aliue c. the scripture also vseth that phrase of speach of things which are as when it sayth the iust man shall scarce be saued it doth not meane that iust men shall not be saued The rest of that I haue answered Io. Whitgifte I proue by their owne manifest woordes that they in déede affirme that we in England are not yet come to the outwarde face of a Church agreable to Gods worde all whiche proofes you omit and let passe cauilling onely at this woorde scarce which is a manifest What y ◠word vix importeth argument of a wrangler And yet is not this manner of speaking Quod vix sit non sit so straunge Philosophie as you would gladly haue it for this woorde vix eyther signifieth with violence great difficultie to do a thing or else it is referred to the time or else it signifieth non as in Ouide vix Priamus tanti that is non tanti Priamus as Donatus doth expoūd it I thinke you will not haue it to be taken in the first significatiō by the Authors of y e Admonitiō for then there is no sense in their wordes if it be taken in either of the latter significations as it must of necessitie be then the Philosophie is not secrete ▪ but open and knowne to euery yong Grammarian In our English phrase it is commonly taken for non as when we say a thing is Vix in english commonly taken for non scarce done we signifie that is not yet done Likewise when a man sayth that he is scarce well he meaneth that he is not well He hath scarce made an end of his sermon ▪ y t is he hath not made an end of his sermon It is scarce ix of y e clocke that is it is not yet ix of the clocke Euen so we are scarce come to the outward forme of a church rightly reformed c. that is we are not yet come c. Euery child y t cā speake knoweth this to be so When the scripture saith that a iust man shall scarce be saued this woorde vix is taken in y e first significatiō that is with great difficultie in this signification it is oftētimes taken in the scripture but so can it not be in their manner of speach Ansvvere to certayne Articles c. 2. They will haue the mynisters to be called allowed and placed by the people You say that this Article is falsified yet their wordes in that place of their Admonition be these Then election was made by the cōmon consent of the whole Churche And a litle after Then no mynister was placed in any congregation without the consent of the people Wherfore the collection is very true and they belike ashamed of their
is nor the Iuniper cotesare not comparable with it Io. Whitgifte Nay they can not meane it of me nor of suche as I am for I haue not to doe with the politike affayres of this lande neyther am I eyther of Court or Parliament But I thinke their words following doe clearely seclude me and all other of my degrée for thus they adde immediatly But shutte God out of your assemblies and 〈◊〉 as hitherto in this last Parliament you haue done nothing therin as you ought no though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beene solicited but haue suffered them that were your solicitours to be molested You shall 〈◊〉 both that you ought to haue sought the kingdome of God first and also you shall finde if 〈◊〉 consider not your owne wayes in your hearts howe you thinke it a tyme to buylde seeled houses to deuise lawes for the preseruation and prosperitie of your common wealth and neglect Gods Churche leaue that wast c. These wordes of theirs shutteth me out from the number of their Macheuils Well it is a poynte that woulde be considered That whiche I speake in the. 88. page I am ready to giue accounte of when I am thervnto by due authoritie called Neyther am I afrayde in time and place to speake that whiche I thinke In the rest of this Replie you doe but vtter your impatiencie and vntemperatenesse of your spéeche and therfore I will dismisse you as Dauid dyd Shemei A vievve of the seconde Admonition The seconde parte consisteth onely of rayling wordes and slaunderous Slaunder 〈◊〉 the Churche of Englande accusations first agaynst this whole Churche of Englande for they say that we are scarse come to the outwarde face of a Churche rightly reformed and that although some truthe be taught by some preachers yet no Preacher maye without great daunger of the lawes vtter all truthe comprised in the worde of God c. And a little after they adde and saye that the truthe in a maner doth but peepe out behinde the screene which speeches as they be very vntrue for who knoweth not that the Gospell is wholly publikely and freely preached in this Church of Englande so they be slaunderous neyther can the Papists speake any worse In this parte also to proue that this is no true saying in matters of policie and gouernment it is not repugnant to the word of God and therfore it may be vsed is alleaged this saying of Christ. Mat. 12. He that is not vvith me is agaynst me But they haue forgotten the wordes of Christ Mat. 9. Qui non est aduersus nos pro nobis est He that is not agaynst vs is vvith vs. Wherevpon we maye muche better conclude that that which is not repugnant to the Scripture is consonant to the Scripture than they can doe the contrarie of the former place Notwithstanding in both these places as I think Christ speaketh rather of men and persons than of things them selues In the same parte their speeche of the Queenes supremacie is very Supremacie of the Quene secretly denied suspicious and it would be demaunded of them what they thinke in deede of hir Maiesties anthoritie in ecclesiasticall matters for in this poyut they haue hitherto dealt very subtilly and closely notwithstanding their meaning may easily be perceyued of suche as diligently consider their bookes Likewyse in this parte they note certayne contrarietics in thys Churche as betwixte the Communion booke and Iniunctions touching wafers the Communion booke and aduertisementes concerning Churche vestures the Canons and the Pontificall in not ordering of ministers sine titulo and suche like matters of no importance whiche iustifie rather this Churche than otherwyse for surely if they had had weightier matters they woulde no doubte haue alleaged them But in these same matters they are muche deceyued for as I suppose in matters of ornaments of the Churche and of the ministers thereof the Queenes Maiestie togither with the Archbishop or the Commissioners in causes ecclesiasticall haue authoritie by Acte of Parliament to alter and appoynt suche rites and ceremonies as shall from tyme to tyme be thoughte to them moste conuenient To be shorte in that poynt they saye that in thinges of order one Church may many times differ from another without offence following the generall rules of Scripture for order as in appoynting time and place for prayers c. Which is a very true saying and flat contrarie to all that is sayde eyther Contrarietie in these men in the first Admonition or in this seconde for if suche things may be appoynted in the Churche not beeing expressed in the word of God but depending vpon this generall rule Let all things be done decently and in order 1 Corinth 14. then surely the Magistrate hathe authoritie in suche matters to appoynt what shall be thought vnto them most conuenient so that it be not repugnant to the worde of God except you will make this the question whether in such matters we ought to be directed by the Magistrates and gouernours of the Church or by euery priuate Pastor in his seuerall charge Io. Whitgifte All this is let slippe without answere The vievve of the seconde Admonition The thirde parte of this booke condemneth the degrees of Doctors Degrees in the Uniuersities cōdemned Bachelers of Diuinitie and Masters of Arte in the Uniuersities and slaunderously vntruely and opprobriously speaketh of the Uniuersities and suche as be in them presumptudusty prescribing a maner of reformation for the same when as I thinke verily they knowe not what Uniuersities meane But heere we maye note that they seeke to ouerthrowe all learning and degrees of learning The same parte also very slaunderonsly and vnchristianly rayleth on some Bishops by name and the rest of the Cleargie charging them most vntruely with sundrie things but bicause it is done by way of Libelling a Diuelishe kinde of reuenge therfore I trust godly and wyse men will esteeme of it accordingly Besides slaunderous reportes and opprobrious words there is nothing in thys parte worthy the answering T. C. Pag. 176. Sect. 2. After he accuseth the Admonition as if it condemned scholes and Uniuersities with all maner degrees when it dothe but inueigh agaynst degrees giuen of custome rather than of right rather by money than by merite of learning and when titles of Doctorship be giuen to those which haue not the office of a Doctor and oftentimes to those which can not doe the office if they had it and when men doe seeke vayneglory in them and suche lyke Io. Whitgifte Reade and marke their wordes page 16. and. 17. and the conclusion they vse after they haue in moste bitter maner inueighed agaynst suche degrées whiche is this These vayne names become suche vayne men but the Churche of God they become not and are forbidden by our Sauiour c. Their owne wordes be a sufficient declaration of their meaning and so is yours vttered before a playne proofe of your consenting vnto Pag. 173. sec. 1. them and
phansies they haue in this booke which they can not grounde vpon any scriptures but by wringing and wresting of them and in deede their seeking is to haue all things framed according to their fansies that they may be accompted planters and platformers of churches I omitte this that the author boasteth that he and many others will set thē selues against vs as the professed enimies of the churche of Christ For the matter is not great neither shall they in that point dea e an otherwyse with vs than the Anabaptistes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ther H e likes haue dealte with other Churches This shal be sufficiēt for an answere to y ◠booke bicause all other matters of substance are by me answered before in the former cōfutatiō Io. Whitgifte Nothing answered neither is this proclamation of defense solued A briefe ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets spread abroad of late I haue of late receiued three litle Pamphlets the first as it were a preface to the other two the second entituled An exhortation to the Bishops to deale brotherly with their brethren The thirde An exhortation to the Bishops and their clergie to answere a litle booke that came foorth the last Parliament and to other brethren to iudge of it by Gods worde vntil they see it answered and not be carried away with any respect of men The preface cōsisteth of these pointes especially first by diuers exāples it is there declared that the wicked and vngodly of this world could neuer away with suche as would reproue them for their manifest sinnes and vngodlines Secondly that this is the cause why these twoo treatises whiche were lately written and imprinted in the laste Parliament time c. wer of so many misliked and the authors therof so cruelly entreated and streightly imprisoned c. Thirdly it raileth on the bishops and such as be in authoritie comparing them to false prophets and to Phariseis c. Last of all it cōcindeth with threatening that if they go forwarde in their synnes their doings shal be with more bitternes of wordes and plainenesse of speache throwen into their faces The first is nedelesse for who knoweth not that from time to time it hath bin the manner of such as were desperatly wicked not to suffer their sinnes openly to be reproued The second is false vncharitable slaunderous for the cause why the bookes be not estemed especially of the wise learned is the vntrue doctrine conteined in them mainteined with vntrue and v apt allegations of the scriptures and enterlaced with opprobrious termes and railing speaches tending to the disquietnes of the church and ouerthrow of true religiō The authors therof to be imprisoned not for telling any mā of his sinnes but for writing libels against this whole church of England against the booke of common praer against the ministery against y e sacraments finally against the whole forme and gouernmēt of the church by the whole consent of this Realme established and according to the rule of Gods word And with what face can you say that they be imprisoned for telling men of their sinnes where euer reade you or heard you that any of the Prophets or Apostles tolde men of their sinnes by libels Surely Libelling is no true way of reforming that kinde of dealing is not for the Apostles of Christe but for the ministers of Sathan T C. Pag. 177. Sect. 1. here he saith the authors of the Admomtion are not punished or their booke misliked for that it telleth of the faults in the church or of the sinnes of men but for y t it mainteineth false doctrine for that they preferred a libel for the doctrine it appeareth by that which is said what it is And if he would define what a libel were ▪ it were easy to answere vnto the other point If he meane bicause it was preferred without any name vnto it how will he answere (*) Forsoo h 〈◊〉 you make wicked comparison to the example of S. Iohn in y e Apocalips who reprehend ng the ministers o diuers churches ▪ did not (a) A manifest vntruth put to his name vnto his book And to the writer of the Epistle vnto the Hebrewes ▪ which was a singular instrument and did not subscribe his epistle wherin notwithstāding he sharply rebuketh diuers faults amongst thē And yet S. Iohn nor the writer to the Hebrues were not the ministers of Satan And if he call it a libell bycause it vseth some sharper speaches surely all men see that his booke deserueth then to be called a Satyr hauing for tart words bitter and for one twenty But in what respect soeuer he calleth it a libell he accuseth not so much the authours of the Admonition for preferring of it as diuers of the honorable house of Parliament which did allow it Io. Whitgifte The comparison is very vnequall and odious that you make betwixte the holy bookes of the Scripture indited by the spirit of God and reputed and taken as portions of the canonicall scriptures wherein only we haue to séeke the doctrine of saluation and these rayling rude vncharitable and vnlearned Admonitions And yet in the one of them that is in the Reuelation you are fouly ouershot for the name of Iohn setteth his name to the Apocalips both in the beginning end the author of that booke is expressed thrée times in the firste chapter and that with such circumstances that it cannot well be doubted who the author was though you would cauill about the multiplicitie of the name Likewise his name is expressed in the latter chapter of the booke wherefore you were not well aduised when you set it downe that S. Iohn in the Apocalips did not put his name to his booke He saithe in the. 1. cap. in the first verse Seruo suo Iohanni and in the. 4. verse Ioannes 7. ecclesijs quae sunt in Asia and a little after Ego Ioannes frater vester c. and in the last chap. Ego Ioannes qui audiui vidi haec The epistle to the Hebrues hath no opprobrious and slanderous words in it neither doth the author thereof séeke to defame or deface any body as the authors of the Admonition do If my booke be comparable to eyther of the Admonitions in sharpe and vncharitable speaches proue it vnto me by comparing them togither and surely I will like the worse both of my boke and of my self and confesse that I haue offended Although I might excuse my selfe in saying that I haue done it in the defense of the truth and vendicating this Church of England from such vntollerable slanders as they burthen it with If any of the honorable house of Parliament did consent to the publishing of it in that manner and forme that it was published which I am sure they did not as you vndutifully and vntruly charge them I will not excuse them and yet they cannot be said to be either the authors or the publishers of it neither can their allowing of
it excuse it from being a libell being not orderly in Parliament propounded but disorderedly I might say seditiously spread abroade in corners to the defamation of thys whole state and Church of England not to any reformation But to satisfye your desire that would so gladly know what a libell is I will tell A libell what it is you in few words An infamous libell is that that is written in verse or in prose to y t infamy slander of any man to y ◠which the author dare not set his name This is an infamous libel it most aptly agréeth to y ◠booke called an Admonition to y e Parliamēt So that by this definition your obiectiō also of y e booke of y e Apocalips of the epistle to the Hebrues is soone answered for al those bookes are not libells which are published without the authours name but those whiche are published to the infamy or slander of others to the which the authors dare not set their names An ansvvere to certaine Pamphlets The third commeth of the same spirit that the secōd doth that is The libellers fitly compared to the Pharisies of the spirit of arrogancie and malice for it compareth godly wise zelous learned bishops to idolatrous Priestes to Pharisies but indeede the conditions qualities of the Phariseis do most aptly agree with y e authors of these Libels their adherēts for the Pharisies did al that they did to be seene of men sought the commēdation Description of a Pharisie of the common people as appeareth Math. 6. 23. so do they The Pharisies when they fasted disfigured their faces these walking in the streates hang downe their heads looke austerely and in company sigh muche and seldome or neuer laugh the Pharisies strayned out a gnat and swallowed downe a camell And these men think it an heynous offence to weare a cap or a surplisse but in slaundering and backbyting their brethren in rayling on them by libels in contemning of superiors and discrediting such as be in authoritie to be short in disquieting the Churche and state they haue no conscience The Phariseis separated themselues from the common sort of men as more holy and contemned the poore Publicanes as sinners And therefore some learned interpreters thinke that they be called Pharisaei quasi segregati quòd vitae sanctimonia à vulgi moribus vita separati essent non aliter Fost rus in dictionar hebraico atque monachi quos Chartusianos vocant They be called Phariseis as separated and deuided from the commō sort in holynes of life much like vnto the Monkes which be called Carthusians And Iosephus saith that they were called Phariseis bycause they seemed to be more holy than other and more Lib. 1 cap. 2. de bello iudaico Lib. antiquit Tom. 2. lib. 18. cap. 2. Tom. 2. lib. 17. cap. 3. cunningly to expound the law Also he saythe thys to be one propertie of theirs that whatsoeuer their owne reason perswadeth them Id sequuntur pertinaciter that they stubbornly follow Agayne he sayth that they be astutum hominum genus arrogans interdum Regibus quoque infestum c. A subtile kynde of men arrogant and sometimes enimies to kings and rulers These men separate themselues also from the congregation and will communicate with vs neither in prayers hearing the word nor sacraments they contemne and despise all those that be not of their sect as polluted and not worthy to be saluted or kept company with and therefore some of them meeting their old acquaintance being godly preachers haue not only refused to salute them but spit in their faces wishing the plague of God to light vpon them and saying that they were damned and that God had taken his spirit from them and all this bycause they did weare a cappe wherefore when they talke of Phariseis they plucke themselues by the noses But Lord what a straunge time is this when such as they be dare thus boldly publish libells against their superiours for mainteining and executing good and godly lawes The conclusion of this preface is a stoute presumptuous and malapert threatning in my opinion not to be suffered But howsoeuer your pen and tongue walketh yet I pray you holde your handes or else c. T. C. Pag. 177. Sect. 1. 2. Whereas M. Doctor compareth vs with the Phariseys and saythe we do all to be seene of men and that we hold downe our heads in the streates and straine at a gn t swallowing downe a Camell bycause they are in all mens knowledge I will leaue it to them to iudge of the truthe of those things Where he saith we seldome or neuer laugh it is not therefore that we thinke that it is not lawfull to laugh but that the considerations of the calamities of other churches and of the ruines of ours with the heauie iudgements of the Lord which hang ouer vs ought to turne our laughing into weeping besides that a man may laugh although he shew not his teeth And so Ierome Ierome ad Marcell ▪ in effect answereth in an epistle which he wrote where vpon occasion that certaine vsed the same accusation that M. Doctor doth he saith bycause we do not laugh with open mouth therefore we are counted sadde And where he saith we separate our selues from all congregations and are ennimies to prince and that we would seeme to be holyer thā other these and such like slaunders are answered before And if there be any that refuse to salute godly preachers or spit in any mans face or wish the plague of God to light vpon them or say that they be damned we defend not nor allow of any such behauioure And it is vnreasonable that the fault of one should be imputed to so many and to those which do as much mislike of it as M. Doctor himselfe And what needed M. Doctor to bid the authors of these exhortations to hold their hands where do they in a worde offer to strike Belike hys tongue is his owne and therefore he speaketh whatsoeuer he listeth Io. Whitgifte I shewe how much more aptely the qualities and conditions of the Phariseys agrée to you and to your sect than they can doe to suche as the authors of those pamplets call phariseys I know you can both laugh iest and give when you are among your selues and so coulde the Phariseys doo but I speake of youre behauior in open places and before suche as do not so well know you It is vnlyke that you mourne for the ruines or calamities of any Churches séeing that you séeke with might and mayne the confusion of this by stirring vp schismes and contentions in it That which I speake of separating your selues from the congregation c. is well knowne to be true in a number of you and the contemptuous behauiour of some of you pretending moste zeale towardes some of vs argueth what spirite you are of and what your
any learned man but onely of certaine heretikes and especially Anabaptists To be short I haue not answered the booke by peeces but wholy Howbeit I must desyre them to pardon me for not making more speede with my answere their friuolous quotations so troubled me and my other businesse that I could no sooner make an ende of it In all the rest of that deryding Pamphlet there is nothing of any moment Augustine recor ed vpon the abu tsary worth the answering Therefore as they alledge this portion of a sentence taken out of S. Augustine in his Epistle ad Vinc n. Si terrerentur non docerentur improba quasi dominatio videretur If they shoulde be feared and not taught it might seme a vvicked gouernance so I con lude with the other part of the same sentence Si docerentur non terrerentur vetustate consuetudinis bdurarentur ad capescendam viam salutis pigrius mouerentur If they should be taught and not feared in time they vvoulde vvaxestubburne and bethe hardlier moued to imbracethe vvay of saluation T. C. Pag. 177. Sect. vlt. I know not whether they haue bene conferred with or no but I thinke the first reason which they had to perswade them was that they should go to Newgate ▪ which is that which the Exhortation cō layneth of after that they are first punished before they be taught And in this beh lfe M. Doctor hath no cause to complaine as he doth For if he list he may learne or euer he go to prison Io. Whitgifte If they were so sent to that place it was a méete reward for such disorderly dealing for ignorance may not excuse Libellers if they libell but against a priuate man much lesse shoulde it excuse them slaundering in that maner this whole Church and realme I doubt not but that I shall learne to know my selfe to do mydutie whilest I am out of prison so that I shall not iustly for lacke of dutie and honestie deserue it T. C. Pag. 178. Lin. 2. And as for the truth of the cause and wresting and mangling of the Scriptures in most places where they are sayde to mangle and wrest and how he hath answered the r quest of the Exhortation which is to confute the Admonition by the Scriptures and how truly ptly and learnedly M. Doctor hath behaued himself in citing of the old Councels and fathers I leaue it to be esteemed partly of that which I haue sayde and partly by the deeper consideration of those which bycause they can better iudge may see further into M. Doctors faults-and rapfodyes than I can Although the truth is that I haue bicause I would not make a long booke by heaping of one reprehension vpon an other contented my selfe rather to trip as it were and to passe ouer with a light foote the heades and summes of things than to number the faults which are almost as many as there are sentences in this booke more I am sure than there are pages Io. Whitgifte I haue confuted both them and you according to the giftes and grace that God hath gyuen mée with suche authorityes both of Scriptures and other learned Auth ours as is fitte to be vsed in the decyding of suche controuersies And I am well assured that you haue not omitted the least blot in my booke and for the most part you haue feyned agaynst your owne knowledge those to be whiche are not I refuse no mans iudgement of my dealing with the olde Councels and fathers that is learned and will speake without affection what he thinketh Your hyperbolicall conclusion or figure of lying where with you close vp your booke I am well vsed vnto and therefore it doth nothing trouble me but remayneth as a certaine note of the spirite that possesseth you which is the spirite of vntruth THus haue I according to that talent that God hath committed vnto me endeuoured my selfe to defende the state of this Church of England and the orders and rites therein by publyke authoritie established agaynst the slaunderous libelles of certaine vnquiet persons and this vncharitable replie of T. C. If eyther I haue omitted any thing that might haue béene vttered as I haue omitted many things or not so fully answered euery poynt that all men thereby may be satisfied namely such as will be satisfied with reason I doubt not but that there be a great number of singular learning and knowledge which will fulfill my want The which I do desire them most heartily to do euen for the loue that they haue to the peace of the Church not to suffer so common and weightie a cause to rest onely vpon one mans shoulder so farre inferiour to so many of them in all respects The contrarie part ceasse not to lay theyr heades togither and to make it all theyr cases which would more euidently appeare if their might were according to their will Therefore séeing that we like and allowe of the state let vs not suffer it to be defaced vniustly and without either learning or truth And if it shall please the contrarie part to answere this my defense then do I require no other thing of them than the selfe same which the Author of the Replie hath required of me and the which I haue accordingly performed that is that they set downe my wordes and answere me wholy which vnlesse they do they shal not onely with all wise men greatly dis redite themselues and shewe the lacke of truth to be on their side but also ease me of some paynes for I purpose not to answere Pamphlets nor to spend the time in confuting friuolous Libels The Lorde graunt that my labours may worke that effect that I desire that is peace in the Church and true obedience in the heartes of the Subiects Amen ¶ An examination of the places cited in the end of the Replie touching matters in controuersie T. C. ACcording to my promise made in my boke I haue here set down the iudgemēt of the later writers concerning these matters in controuersie betwene vs. VVherin bicause I loue not to translate out of other mens workes whereby I might make mine to grow I haue kept this moderation that I neither set downe all the writers nor all their places that I coulde nor yet of euery singular matter But the chiefest writers and either of the chiefest points or else of those wherein they are alledged against vs by M. Doctor and one only place of eache as farre as I coulde iudge and chose out most directe to that wherefore I haue alledged it For otherwise if I would haue spoken of all the pointes and of the iudgement of all the writers and gathered all the places that I coulde they would haue ben sufficient matter of an other boke as bigge or rather bigger than this I must also admonishe the Reader that I haue forborne in certeine of these titles to sette downe the iudgements of M Beza M. Bullinger and M. Gualter bycause they