Selected quad for the lemma: tradition_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
tradition_n	holy_a	know_v	scripture_n	1,758	5	5.8907	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33945	The pulpit-guard routed, in its twenty strong-holds, or, A brief answer to a large and lawless discourse, written by one Tho. Hall ... intituled, The pulpit-guarded, with twenty arguments, pretending to prove the unlawfulness and sinfulness of private mens preaching ... his six arguments to prove their ministry free from anti-Christianism, rased, and six more asserted, proving them to be anti-Christian / written by Tho. Collier.	Collier, Thomas, fl. 1691.	1651 (1651)	Wing C5295; ESTC R9709	89,279	114

Who told you they were three persons have you it in Scripture or by tradition from Rome if in Scripture produce it when you come forth in publick next for mine own part I know no such Scripture And this I shall with confidence affirm that neither Father Son or Spirit are at all called Person or Persons as God but it s a Title proper only to man in Scripture given to none else and therefore come from Rome Be instructed now therefore ye wise men of the Earth and do not judge so harshly of honest men because they cannot believe that which is not written in Scripture and be content to be fools that you may be wise and let these Traditions return to their first center 23. That Christ hath removed the Law and now the pure Gospel is the only Rule What yet more ignorance and malice Is this one of the wrinkles and deformities one of the delusions of that deluded Sect I wonder you have left out one this comes very near it that they expect salvation by the Free grace of God in Jesus Christ Is this such a strange wrinkle and delusion with you that Christ hath removed the Law I pray what was the end of his coming if not to remove the Law as a dispensation held forth in the hands of Moses The Law came by Moses but Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ Joh 1. 17. First he came to fulfil the Law every jot and title of it Mat. 5. 17 18. He fulfilled all the righteousness of it for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness Mat 3. 15. and so is the end of the Law for righteousness to all those who believe Rom. 10. 4. Secondly He hath removed the Curse and condemnation of it Gal. 3. 13. Rom. 8. 1. Thirdly He hath removed the Rule of it as in the hands of Moses for there it was the Rule that produced the Curse it was a ministration of death and now the pure Gospel is the only Rule of Saints And is this such a mystery and deformity to you a Minister of the Gospel and ignorant of this Truth Sir I must tell you that if you were a Christian in good earnest you should not you could not be ignorant that the Gospel the Law of Christ is the Rule of the Saints Mat. 28. 20. Act. 3. 22. They are marryed to him and subject to him Rom. 74. Christ takes all that old dispensation both Moral and Ceremonial into his own hands and is the substance of the Ceremonies and righteousnes of the Moral Law and now gives forth the substance of the Moral again to them in them not as a Rule of righteousness but as a law of love a law of Grace and pure Gospel if you will have it though you think the word pure Gospel is reproach enough although you cannot be litterally ignorant that the Gospel signifieth glad tydings and is not this glad tydings think you and pure Gospel when a soul comes to see all the wrath and enmity that was against him contained in Ordinances taken away Ephes 2. 13 14. and fulfilled and now there is no ministration of death against him the Law of God is in his heart within him without him a law of love and grace no death no wrath nothing but love and grace and the love of Christ constrains such souls to yield obedience to him and to follow him where ever he goes But to conclude the Thirtieth Tenent They give a Supream and Independent power in all Ecclesiasticall causes and censures to their single Congregations And can you produce any other rule in the Gospel then this must you needs have one Church to rule over another or rather your selves to rule over the whole will nothing content you unless you may be Lords over Gods heritage Sir we allow no Synodian nor Classical power but advice and counsell we own c. it s not an Independent power neither only independent as to man and creatures but depending upon Jesus Christ and if you can produce any other rule in the Gospel let us know it that we may be informed If you mention Acts 15. I say first they sent to Jerusalem for advice and counsell and secondly those to whom they sent were able infallibly to determine the case ver 28. They could say It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay upon you no greater burthens then these necessary things c. And truly were there such Apostles and Elders amongst us we should gladly acknowledge them and receive from them but as for your Classicall power we own it not we submit not to it c. Thus have I briefly run through your Looking-glass and truly it may be a Looking glass for your self if the Lord open your eyes to see into it wherein you may first see your ignorance and blindness in calling so many precious truths of Christ wrinkles and deformities and delusions of the deluded Sect. And secondly you may see your malice and envy in charging so many falshoods upon them when it s your selves that are guilty of those crimes you endeavour to fasten upon them Thus you say You have given a taste out of a full sea whereby it appears that the Anabaptists are no such harmless creatures as some imagine A full sea it is indeed of lyes and scandals on the one part and truth ignorantly or wilfully abused by you on the other part No such harmless creatures c. if you could by your lyes and scandals perswade people to it thus dealt the Scribes Pharisees and the hypocrites your brethren in iniquity with Christ and the Saints of old Mat. 12 24. Joh. 8. 48. 10. 36. Act. 14. 2. You commend those who desire to see more of their Errors to Mr. Edwards Gangraena and the rest of your brethren in the same iniquity with you but you do well to commend them to the Gangraena the vilest viper that ever appeared in the world against Christ and his truth and Saints herein justifying your brethren in their iniquity and so drawing upon your self all the righteous blood shed from Abel until now you build the Tombs of the Prophets Christ and his Apostles pretend high estimation of them Pharisee like Mat. 23. from the 29. to the end Well you draw your conclusion How needfull is it both for Church and Common-wealth to joyn the labour of the Vniversities for confutation of the Anabaptists Indeed Sir you had need joyn all your forces Church Common-wealth that is the Magistrate Universities and all for the suppression of truth I wonder you had not conjured the Prince of darkness to your assistance in this great work and undertaking it seems their errors are so great so dangerous in your eye as that you fear miserably some great disaster or change you cry out lamentably upon their doctrine as that it will bring destruction to Church State Souls all But what are their principles that are so full of danger Answ

most part enemies to the Power c. 2. Argument If Baptism of Ministers in times of Popery was true Baptism though corrupted c. the Ministers though corrupted were true Ministers therefore you must be true Ministers though corrupted I suppose this to be the intention of your Argument Answ You have now hit the nail upon the head and fastned it like a Master builder 1. Then I deny either their or your Baptism to be any Baptism at all for believe it theirs is as good as yours never a best but aninvented Antichristian Custome and Form for which there is no warrant either in Law or Gospel or President of any true Church of Christ 2. You do well to rank your selves with the Ministry of Rome for they are by Office your brethren from thence you come and thither you must return c. a grounded Argument to prove your Call If the Ministry of Rome be true then you are true but they are Ergo. this is the summ of your Argument 3. Argument If the Papists disclaim us as having no Call from them then our Calling cannot be Antichristian but they disclaim us c. Answ 1. Your jangling and differing each with other and reproaching one another argues not the truth of what you say for it s known and your selves know that by Succession your Ordination came from thence c. 2. They do not say That your Ordination in its rise came not from them but in the present its not approved of or executed by them by reason of some smal differences between you 3. Grant by way of concession that if what you say were truth is there but one Antichrist in the world you say it cannot be Antichristian Doth not the Apostle say there are many Antichrists in the world 4. Argument If your Ordination be Antichristian then cannot you with modesty accuse us But your Ordination is Antichristian Ergo. A goodly Argument Sir I for if it were truth that you say because ours is Antichristian therefore yours may be so by a Law learned Logick As to the Ordination you mention by the people I know none such in the formal way you pretend Election being the summ of all and that lieth in the people the power or gift of Ordination in the form being wanting it s but a form without a power yet I believe that the power both of Election and Ordination lieth in the Church and if Ordination be so administred as you say the Church appointing some of her Members unto it they are a lawful Presbytery to do it so far as the power accompanies it c. You conclude If this be lawful then a fortiori from the greater yours must needs be lawful learned Orthodox Divines Their learning and greatness mends the business well you think though ignorant of or enemies unto the Way Truth Churches and Ministers of Christ the case is altered now sir 5. Argument Those Ministers that are elected proved ordained c. according to the mind of Christ cannot be Antichristian but our Ministers are so Ergo. Answ Your Minor I deny you have no such Election I have told you already you have no Church of Christ but for the most part are ignorant rude deboist prophane yet professing Hypocrites yet secondly such as they are yet they never elected you before Ordination but you for love of the tythe pigs c. come and take them by violence and get their goods from them by a Law 2. You were never proved viz. of your knowledge of the Lord and his wayes but of your learning if you had the language of the Beast and the smoke of the pit it was enough and as for your Ordination I have told you already from whence it is I need say no more 6. Argument Those Ministers which are directly opposite to the Priests and Shavelings of Antichrist cannot be Antichristian but ours are so Ergo. Answ You are so in some Circumstantials not in the substance for you own their Ministry true their Ordinances true and indeed you are the Sectaries and Schismaticks in renting from them they being in your account a true Church and Ministry though corrupted This your self acknowledged in your second Argument and this Parson Tilly of Compton in Somersetshire no little one in the peoples account acknowledged in express terms that Rome is a true Church and her Ministry a true Ministry c. 2. There may be an opposition in some Circumstantials and yet a joyning in others Manasseh against Ephraim and Ephraim against Manasseh and both against Judah you are both against Christ and his Interst which is his people c. You say this will appear by the ensuing Parallel 1. They were ordained to sacrifice 2. You were ordained to do the same it s only the change of that word the second clears it 2. They teach the traditions of men 2. You do the same and your own inventions are ashamed of and enemies to the truth of the Scriptures 3. They mix the Sacraments and Altar 3. You destroy and annihilate them by your impure administration 4. They are for the Mass 4. You kept the body and substance of it viz. the Liturgy untill the Parliament took it from you 5. They are the Popes sworn Vassals 5. You are as deeply ingaged to your self-interest as they are to the Pope 6. These pervert souls and draw them from Christ 6. You delude souls with your Forms Customs Ordinances so keep them from Christ But you say That you convert souls and bring them to Christ that we received our conversion from sin to God in the publike Assemblies c. Answ 1. If conversion be a proof of a Minister in office then women may be Ministers in office or any man by whom God converts for I believe your selves dare not deny but that God is free in this thing and worketh by whom and how he pleaseth 1 Cor. 7. 16. Joh. 4. 28. You instance in Paul proving his Apostleship 1 Cor. 9. 2. that is but in particular to them not that conversion of souls proves the Office but the work I deny not but there might be some men of honesty and godly men though in darkness in part by whom God might work for conversion yet this justifies not the Office 2. If God did own his hidden ones and afford his presence in times of Ignorance yet now are times of Light and he admonisheth you to repent 3. Most of the conversion you so much boast of was but a conversion from sin to Duty not from sin to God as many can and have witnessed being with Paul made partakers of another Conversion both from sin and resting upon duty to God You seem to make much of our separating from you in time of Reformation that its a greater sin then many are aware of to separate from a Church that professeth so much readiness to conform to the Rule and that never was separation from the Chuch so unwarrantable as now it is c. Answ

when you had but thoughts that your own interest would not stand who are turned Traytors to their native Country ready to joyn with Scots or Devil in the ruine of it Your selves or those you call Anabaptists who are they at present that endeavour to kindle a fire in the neighbour Nations to burn up their own your selves or the Anabaptists In a word who are they that refuse or at least murmur against promising fidelity to the Magistrate in the common good your selves or the Anabaptists Let truth be judge and acknowledge your mistake and be ashamed for ever thus grosly to belye the truth and its servants laying your own blame and shame upon other mens shoulders And put case there be any that pretend themselves to be Christians in that profession you so much contemn that dishonour truth in any of these particulars mentioned by you Yet how dare you say they are such all of them laying the scandal upon the whole as if because there was one Judas all the Disciples must be Hypocrites But Sir if we should judge of you after this manner we could say more of you then you shall ever be able to say of us I trust I could tell you of Priests Free-willers Drunkards Swearers Whore-masters what not should I therefore say you are all such men but I forbear at present only this take heed how you take the Devils work upon you next to accuse the brethren if not I must speak more at large unto you as to the rest of the particulars you mention as the Twelfth that Christ died intentionally for all I say he dyed for all although not intentionally to save all for if he had intended to save all he had not failed of his intention 17. That its unlawful to go Law Is this such a grievous errour with you I answer 1. That its chargeable to go to Law and 2. That the Apostle reproves it as a sin and fault in the Corinthians 1 Cor. 6. 2. Dare any of you having a matter against another to go to Law before the unjust and not before the Saints And yet you dare to upbrade the Saints who dare not go to Law and yet you belye them too in respect either of persons or opion 1. Of opinion they deny not going to Law absolutely but in case of necessity when no other way or means will serve and that too secondly when it tends to the prejudice of their livelihood and being 2. Of Persons It s not all but possibly some few tender souls dare not own going to Law in any case and I wish all were more tender in this respect although they become your reproach and scandal more then yet they are 18. That Wars are unuseful c. Answ First it s the judgement but of some and I believe of very few that Wars are altogether useless Secondly Their judgement is that Wars are useless in the Kingdom of Christ and that its useful only in the Kingdomes of the world amongst men for the preservation of civil Rights and upon this account are they active in the present War so publike as that I wonder how you could without shame and blushing mention this particular but that you shoot your arrows so at random ●s that you neither fear or shame before God or man for those you brand with the name of Anabaptists and Independents have been and are the Instruments by whom God hath given a being to your selves and Nation though men are blind and do not or wil not see it Thirdly Are you an Enemy to the Saints because they are men of peace and not of War and blood like your selves Fourthly You discover much ignorance or wilfulness in your accusations of them or else you could not so contradict your self in it In the seventh Tenent you say They are tumultuous and raised Tumults in Germany and filled it with the fire of Sedition to the loss of six hundred thousand men And in the eighteenth Wars are useless Was there ever such contradictions heard And truly I must tell you I credit not the Relation of the German Wars I see how bold you are in lying while we are yet alive to give you Answer that I cannot credit that Relation the people being gone and their Adversaries too relate it I rather think the Priests were the cause of it as they were in this Nation and am confident if they durst give a Relation of things to another Age They would say as much of the Anabaptists or rather of the baptized Christians of this Nation as they of old did of those in Germany 19. That all Ordinances are legal that the spirit is all Here you contradict your self again if another should have done so much you would have thought him not in his right wits In the first you say Their Tenent is that none must be baptized untill they come to perfect age and can make confession of their Faith Here they own baptism you confess your self And in the 26. you say Their Tenent is that after rebaptization they cannot sin in which you belie them as much as ever the Devil belyed Truth but I pass In the 19 you say They deny all Ordinances Is not this contradiction Truly you teach people not to believe you and then you are angry with the people for it 20. The Magistrate must compell none in matters of Religion but must tolerate all Ans Can Magistrates make men Religious Is it not the work of Christ to make men Christians and Religious and to compel them by the power of love Or is it the work of the Magistrate I thought where to have you at last within the Borders of Rome and indeed Sir are you come no farther yet What a Minister of Christ and want the help of the Magistrate to make Christians to compel them to come in unto you And Sir Why may not a Jesuite have as good a Church as you if the Magistrate must convert them compel them to come in and so you will have in all Do you believe that its the work of God to convert and that he will take one of a City and two of a Tribe and bring them to Jerusalem How durst you then to bring in all by a Magisterial Power into the Church unless you resolve to make them Hypocrites and to damn them to the purpose or unless you see it stand for your profit and advantage the cloathing and feeding of your back and belly by the vulgar sort of people who are thus deluded by you And as for toleration we desire not the Magistrate to tolerate any in their wickedness and if any under the pretence of conscientious principles live and allow themselves in loosness baseness and prophaness let the Sword of Justice be drawn for the execution of Justice upon all such without respect of person or opinion and in it shall we rejoyce 21. That the Father Son and holy Ghost are not three distinct persons one in Essence c. But Sir