it partly in a repetition in other words of what you had before insisted on The former I shall no further endeavour to disturb your contentment in It is a common error Neque est quisquam Quem non in aliquare videre Suffenum Possis I am not your Rivall in the admiration of it and shall therefore leave you quietly in the embracements of your Darling And for the latter we have had enough of it already and so by this time I hope you think also The close only of your Discourse is considerable and therefore I shall transcribe it for your second thoughts And it is this But Sir what you say here and so often up and down your book of Papists contempt of the Scripture I beseech you will please to abstain from it for the time to come I have conversed with the Roman Catholicks of France â—â—anders and Germany I have read more of your Books both Histories Contemptative and Scholastical Divines thâ—n I believe you have ever seen or heard of I have seen the Colledges of Sacred Priests and Religious houses I have communed with all sort of people and perused their Counsells And after all this I tell you and out of my love I tell you that their respect to Scripture is real absolute and cordial even to admiration Others may talk of it but they act it and would be ready to stone that man that should diminish Holy Writ Let us not wrong the innocent The Scripture is theirs and Jesus Christ is theirs who also will plead their Cause when he sees time What you mention of your own diligence and atchievements what you have done where you have been what you have seen and discoursed I shall not trouble you about It may be as to your souls health Tutior poter as esse domi But yet for all the report that you are pleased to make of your self it is not hard to discern that you and I Nec pondera rerum Nec momenta sumus And notwithstanding your Writings it would have been very difficult for any man to have guessed at your great reading had you not satisfied us by this your own information of it It may be if you had spared some of the time which you have spent in the reading of your Catholick Books unto the study of the Scripture it had not been unto your disadvantage In the mean time there is an Hyperbole in your confidence a little too evident For it is possable that I may and true that I have seen more of your Authors in half an hour then you can read I think in an hundred years unless you intend alwayes to give no other account of your reading then you have done in your Fiat and Epistola But we are weary of this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Quin tu alium quaer as quoi centones farcias But to pass by this boasting there are two parts of your Discourse the one concerning the faith the other expressing the Charity of Roman Catholicks The first contains what respect you would be thought to have for the Scripture the latter what you really have for all other Christians besides your selves As to the former you tell me that I speak of the Papists contempt of the Scripture and desire me to abstain from it for the time to come Whither I have used that expression anywhere of contempt of the Scripture well I know not But whereas I look upon you as my friend at least for the good advice I have frequently given you I have deserved that you should be so and therefore shall not deny you any thing that I can reasonably grant and whereas I cannot readily comply with you in your present request as to the alteration of my mind in reference unto the respect that Papists bear unto the Scriptures I esteem my self obliged to give you some account of the reasons why I persist in my former thoughts which I hope as is usual in such cases you will be pleased to take in friendly part For besides Sir that you back your request with nothing but some overconfident asseverations subscribed with teste meipso I have many reasons taken from the practice and Doctrine of your Church that strongly induce me to abide in my former perswasion As 1. You know that in these and the neighbouring Nations Papists have publickly burned the Scriptures and destroyed more Copies of them then ever Antiochus Epiphanes did of the Jewish Law And if you should go about to prove unto me that Protestants have no great regard to Sacred Images that have been worshipped because in these and the neighbouring Nations they brakes and burned a great number of them I should not readily know what to answer you Nor can I entertain any such confidence of your abilities as to expect from you a satisfactory answer unto my instance of the very same nature manifesting what respect Papists bear unto the Scriptures 2. You know that they have imprisoned and burned sundry persons for keeping the Scripture in their houses or some parts of them and reading them for their instruction and comfort Nor is this any great sign of respect unto them no more then it is of mens respect to treason or murder because they hang them up who are guilty of them And 3. Your Church prohibiteth the reading of them unto Lay-men unless in some special cases some few of them be licenced by you so to do and you study sweat for arguments to prove the reading of them needless and dangerous putting them as translated into the Catalogue of Books prohibited Now this is the very mark and stamp that your Church sets upon these books which she disapproves and discountenanceth as pernicious to the faithful 4. Your Councel of Trent hath decreed that your unwritten Traditions are to be received with the same faith and veneration as the Scripture constituting them to be one part of the Word of God and the Scriptures another then which nothing could be spoken more in contempt of it or in reproach unto it For I must assure you Protestants think you cannot possibly contract a greater guilt by any contempt of the Scripture then you do by reducing it into order with your unwritten Traditions 5. You have added Books not only written with an humane and fallible Spirit but farced with actual mistakes and falshoods unto the Canon of the Scripture giving just occasion unto them who receive it from you only to question the Authority of the whole And 6. You teach the Authority of the Scripture at least in respect of us which is all it hath for Authority is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and must regard some in relation unto whom it doth consist depends on the Authority of your Church the readiest way in the world to bring it into Contempt with them that know what your Church is and what it hath been And 7. You plead that it is very obscure and unintelligible of its self and that in things of the
walk in the steps of their faith herein It believed that all Image-worship was forbidden Exod. 20. And whether you abide in the same perswasion we shall afterwards examine And many more instances of the like kind you may at any time be minded of You hast to that you would fain be at which will be found as little to your purpose as those whose consideration you so carefully avoid You say Did she fall by Heresie in adhering to any errour in Faith contrary to the approved doctrine of the Church Here you smile seriously and tell me that since I take the Roman and Catholick Church to be one she could not indeed adhere to any thing but what she did adhere unto S r I take them indeed to be one but here I speak ad hominem to one that doth not take them so And then if indeed the Roman Church had ever swerved in faith as you say she has and be her self as another ordinary particular Church as you say she is them might you find some one or other more generall Church if any there were to judge her some Oecumenicall Councell to condemn her some Fathers either Greek and Latin expresly to writs against her as Protestants now do some or other grave Authority to censure her or at least some company of Believers out of whose body she went and from whose faith she fell None of which since you are not able to a assign wherein you have spoken more rightly than you were aware of for not to be able to assign none of them infers at least an ability to assign some if not all of them my Query remains unanswered and the Roman still as flourishing a Church as ever she was Answ. 1. You represent my Answer lamely I desire the Reader to consult it in the Animadversions pag. 66 67 68. What you have taken notice of discovers only your fineness in making Heresie an adherence to an errour in faith contrary to the doctrine of the Church and your selves the Church whereby you must needs be secured from Heresie though you should adhere to the most hereticall Principles that ever were broached in the world But nothing of all this as I have shewed will be allowed you 2. As we have seen some of the Reasons why you were so unwilling to try the Cause of your Church on the heads of Idolatry and Apostasie so here you discover a sufficient Reason why you have passed over your other head of Schism in silence You avow your self one of the most schismaticall Principles that were ever adhered unto by any professing the name of Christ. The Roman Church and the Catholick are with you one and the same Is not this Petilianus his in parte Donati nay Basilides his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Epiphan Heres 4. We only are men all others are Dogs and Swine Macte virtute If this be not to shew modcration and to persue reconciliation at once to shut out all men but your selves from the Church here and consequently Heaven hereafter what can be thought so to be In earnest S r you may talk what you please of moderation but whilest you avow this one wretched schismaticall Principle you do your endeavour to exclude all true Christian moderation out of the world 3. Why do you conclude that your Query is not answered Suppose one Question could not be answered doth it necessarily follow that another cannot I suppose you take notice that this is another Question and not that at first proposed as I told you before Your first enquiry was about your Churches crime this is about her conviction and condemnation and your Conclusion hath no strength in it but what is built on this unquestionable Maxim that None ever offended who was not publickly judged as though there were no Harlot in the world but those that have been carted It is enough S r that her condition is sub judice as it will be whether you or I will or no and that there is not evidence wanting for her conviction nor ever was since her fall though it may be it hath not at all times been so publickly managed And yet so vain is your triumphant Conclusion that we rest not here but prove also that she hath been of old judged and condemned as you will hear anon And thus I have once more given you an Answer to your enquiry how your Church fell namely that she hath done so by all the wayes and means by which it is possible for a Church to fall She failed under the just hand of God when the persons of that Vrbick Church were extirpated partly by others but totally by Totilas as the Brittish Church in England fell by the sword of the Saxons She hath fallen by Idolatry and corruption of life as did the Church of the Jews before the Captivity She hath fallen by her relinquishment of the written Word as the only rule of faith and worship and by adhering to the uncertain traditions of men as did the Church of the Jews after their return from captivity She hath fallen by Apostasie in forsaking the profession of many important truths of the Gospel as the Church of the Galatians did for a season in their relinquishment of the doctrine of Justification by grace alone She hath fallen by Heresie in coyning new Articles of faith and imposing them on the consciences of the Disciples of Christ as the Montanists did with their new Paraclete and rigid observances She hath fallen by Schisme in her self as the Judaical Church did when divided into Essenes Sadduces and Pharisees setting up Pope against Pope and Councell against Councell continuing in her intestine broils for some ages together and from all others by the wretched Principle but-now avowed by you as the Donatists did of old She hath fallen by Ambition in the Hildebrandine Principle asserting a Soveraignty in the Pope over the Kings and Potentates of the earth whereof I can give you no precedent instance unless it be of him who claimed the Kingdomes of the world to be his own and boasted that he disposed of them at his pleasure Mat. 4. And now I hope you will not take it in ill part that I have given you a plain Answer unto your Question which as I suppose was proposed unto us for that end and purpose But although these things are evident and sufficiently proved yet I see nothing will satisfie you unless we produce testimonies of former times to manifest that your Church hath been arraigned judged condemned written against by Fathers Councils or other Churches Now though this be somewhat an unreasonable expectation in you and that which I am no way bound unto by the Law of our Discourse to satisfie you in yet to prevent for the future such Ivasions as you have made use of on all occasions in your Epistle I shall in a few pregnant and unquestionable Instances give you an account both when how and by whom the falls of your Church have been
observed reproved condemned and written against Only unto what shall be discoursed unto this pnrpose I desire liberty to premise these three things which I suppose will be granted Dabitur ignis tamen et si ab inimicis petam The first is that What is by any previously condemned before the embracing and practice of it is no less condemned by them than if the practice had preceded their condemnation Though you should say that your avowing of a condemned errour would make it no errour yet you cannot say that it will render it not condemned for that which is done cannot be undone say you what you will Secondly that Where any opinion or practice in Religion which is embraced and used by your Church is condemned and written against that then your Church which so embraceth and useth it is condemned and written against For neither do Protestants write against your Church or condemn it on any other account but of your opinions and practices and you require but such a writing and condemnation as you complain of amongst them Thirdly I desire you to take notice that I do not this as though it were necessary to the security and defence of the Cause which we maintain against you It is abundantly sufficient and satisfactory unto our consciences in your casting us out from your communion that all the wayes whereby we say your Church is fallen from her pristine purity are judged and condemned in the Scripture the Word of truth whither we appeal for the last determination of the differences between us These things being premised to prevent such evasions as you have accustomed your self unto I shall as briefly as I can give you somewhat of that which you have now twice called for 1. Your Principle and Practise in imposing upon all Persons and Churches a necessity of the observation of your Rites and Ceremonies Customes and Traditions casting them out of Communion who refuse to submit unto this your great Principle of all the Schisms in Europe was contradicted written against condemned by Councels and Fathers in the very first instance that ever you gave of it Be pleased to consider that this concerns the very Life and Being of your Church For if you may not impose your Constitutions observances and customes upon all others actum est there is an end of your present Church State Let us see then how this was thought of in the dayes of old Victor the Bishop of Rome An Dom. 96. condemns and excommunicates the Churches of Asia because they would not joyn with him in the Celebration of Easter precisely on the Lords day Did this practise escape uncontrolled He was written against by the great Irenaeus and reproved that he had cast out of Communion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whole Churches of God for a triviall cause His fact also was condemned in the justification of those Churches by a Councell in Palestine where Theophilus presided and another in Asia called together for the same purpose by Polycrates Euseb. Eccles. Hist. lib. 5. cap. 22 23 24 25. This is an early instance of a considerable Fall in your Church and an open opposition by Councels and Fathers made unto it And do not you S r deceive your self as though the fact of Victor were alone concerned in this censure of Irenaeus and others The Principle before mentioned which is the very life and soul of your Church is condemned in it It was done also in a repetition of the same Instance attempted here in England by you when Austine that came from Rome would have imposed on the Brittish Churches the observation of Easter according to the custome of the Roman Church the Bishops and Monks of these Churches not only rejected your Custome but the Principle also from whence the attempt to impose it on them did proceed protesting that they owned no subjection to the Bishop of Rome nor other regard than what they did to every good Christian. Concil Anglican p. 188. 2. Your Doctrine and Practise of forcing men by carnall weapons corporall penalties tortures and terrors of death unto the embracement of your profession and actually destroying and taking away the lives of them that persist in their dissent from you is condemned by Fathers and Councels as well as by the Scriptures and the light of Nature its self It is condemned by Tertullian Apol. cap. 23. Videte saith he ne hoc ad irreligiositatis elogium concurrat adimere libertatem Religionis interdicere optionem Divinitat is ut non liceat mihi colere quod velim sed cogar colere quod nolim with the like expressions in twenty other places All this externall compulsion he ascribes unto profaneness So doth Clemens Alexand. Stromat 8. So also did Lactantius all consenting in that Maxim of Tertullian Lex nova non se vindicat ultore gladio The Law of Christ revengeth not its self with a punishing sword The Councell of Sardis Epist. ad Alexand. expresly affirms that they disswaded the Emperour from interpesing his Secular power to compell them that dissented And you are fully condemned in a Canon of a Councell at Toledo Cap. de Judae distinc 45. Praecipit sancta Synodns nemini deinceps ad credendum vim inferre cui enim vult Deus miseretur quem vult indurat The holy Synod commandeth that none hereafter shall by force be compelled to the faith for God hath mercy on whom he will have mercy and whom he will he hardeneth Athanasius in his Epistle ad Solitar falls heavily on the Arians that they began first to compell men to their heresie by force prisons and punishments whence he concludes of their Sect atque ita seipsam quam non sit pia nec Dei cultrix manifestat it evidestly declares it self hereby to be neither pious nor to have any reverence of God In a Book that is of some credit with you namely Clemens his Constitutions you have this amongst other things for your comfort 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ left men the power of their wills free in this matter not punishing them with death temporall but calling them to give an account in another world And Chrysostome speaks to the same purpose on Joh 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He asked them saying Will you also go away which is the Question of one rejecting all force and necessity Epiphanius gives it as the character of thesemi-Arâ—ians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They persecute them that teach the Truth not confuting them with words but delivering them that believe aright to hatreds wars and swords having now brought destruction not to one City or Countrey alone but to many Neither can you relieve your selves by answering that they were true believers whom they persecuted you punish Hereticks and Schismaticks only for they thought and said the same of themselves which you assert in your own behalf So Salvian informs us Haeretici sunt sed non scientes denique apud nos sunt Haeretici apud se non
to your Question What it is that can settle any man in the Truth of Religion and unite all men therein And then because you object this unto us as if we were at some loss and incertainty therein and your selves very secure I shall consider what are the grounds and principles that you proceed upon for the same ends and purposes namely to settle any man in the Truth of Religion and to bring all men to an harmony and consent therein Now I shall herein manifest unto you these two things I. That the Principles which the Protestants proceed upon in the improvement whereof they obtain themselves assured and infallible settlement in the Truth and labour to reduce others unto the Unity of Faith are such as are both suited unto and sufficient for the end and work which they design to effect by them and also in themselves of such unquestionable Truth Certainty and Evidence that either they are all granted by your selves or cannot be denied without shaking the very Foundations of Christianity 2. That those which you proceed upon are some of them untrue and most of them dubious and questionable none of them able to bear the weight that you lay upon them and some of them such as the admission of would give just cause to question the whole Truth of Christian Religion And both these S r I crave leave to manifest unto you whereby you may the better judg whether the Scripture or your Church be the best way to bring men unto settlement in Religion which is the thing enquired after 1. Protestants lay down this as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the very beginning and first Principle of their confidence and Confession that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God as the Holy Ghost teacheth them 2 Tim. 3. 16. That is that the Books of the Old and New Testament were all of them written by the immediate guidance direction and inspiration of God the hand of the Lord as David speaks 1 Chron. 28. 19. being upon the Penmen thereof in writing and his Spirit as Peter informs us speaking in them 1 Pâ—t 1. 11. So that whatever is contained and delivered in them is given out from God and is received on his Authority This Principle I suppose you grant to be true do you not if you will deny it say so and we will proceed no farther untill we have proved it I know you have various wayes laboured to undermine the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Holy Scriptures many Queries you put unto men How they can know it to be from God to be true from Heaven and not of men many scruples you indeavour to possess them with against its Authority it is not my present business to remove them It is sufficient unto mee 1. That you your selves who differ from us in other things and with whom our contest about the best way of coming to settlement in the Truth alone is do acknowledg this Principle were proceed upon to be true And 2. That yee cannot oppose it without setting your selves to digge up the very foundations of Christian Religion and to open a way to let in an inundation of Atheism on the world So our first step is fixed on the grand fundamentall Principle of all the Religion and acceptable worship of God that is in the world 2. They affirm that this Scripture evidenceth it self by many infallible 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be so given by Inspiration from God and besides is witnessed so to be by the Testimony of the Church of God from the dayes of Moses wherein it began to be written to the dayes wherein we live our Lord Christ and his Apostles asserting and confirming the same Testimony which Testimony is conveyed unto us by uninterrupted Catholick Tradition The first part of this Position I confess some of you deny and the latter part of it you generally all of you pervert confining the Testimony mentioned unto that of your present Church which is a very inconsiderable part of it if any part at all But how groundlesly how prejudicially to the verity and honour of Christian Religion in generall you do these things I shall briefly shew you Some of you I say deny the first part of this Assertion so doth Andradius Defens Concil Trident. Lib. 3. Neque enim saith he in ipsis Libris quibus Sacra Mysteria conscripta sunt quicquam inest Divinitatis quod nos ad Credendum qua illis continentur religione aliqua constring at Neither is there in the Books themselves wherein the holy Mysteries are written any thing of Divinity that should constrain us by vertue of any religious respect thereunto to believe the things that are contained in them Hence Cocleus Lib. 2. de Authoritate Eccles. Script gathers up a many instances out of the Book of the Scripture which he declares to be altogether incredible were it not for the Authority of the Church I need not mention any more of your Leaders concurring with them you know who is of the same mind with them if the Author of Fiat Lux be not unknown to you Your resolving Vniversal Tradition into the Authority of your present Church to which end there is a Book written not long since by a Jesuit under the name of Vincentius Severinus is no less notorious Some of you I confess are more modest and otherwise minded as to both parts of our Assertion See Malderus Episcop Antwerp de Object Fidei qu. 1. Vaselius Groningen de Potestat Eccles. Epist. ad Jacob. Hock Alliacens in Lib. 1. Sentent Artic. 3. Gerson Exam. dos part 2. Consid. 1. Tom. 1. sol 105. and in twenty other places But when you come to deal with Protestants and consider well the Tendency of this Assertion you use I consess an hundred rergiversations and are most unwilling to come to the acknowledgment of it and rather then suffer from it deny it downwright and that with Scurrilous reflections and Comparisons likening it as to any characters of Gods truth and Holiness upon it unto Livy's Story yea Aesops Fables or a Piece of Poetry And when you have done so you apply your selves to the canvasing of Stories in the Old Testament and to find out appearing Contradictions and tell us of the uncertainty of the Authors of some particular Books that the whole is of its self a dead letter which can prove nothing at all enquiring Who told us that the Penmen of it were divinely inspired seeing they testify no such things of themselves and if they should yet others may do and have done so who notwithstanding were not so inspired and ask us Why we receive the Gospel of Luke who was not an Apostle and reject that of Thomas who one with many the like Cavilling Exceptions But 1. That must needs be a bad Cause which stands in need of such a Defence Is this the voice of Jacob or Esau Are these the expressions of Christians or Pagans from whose
they might conjecture Rome to be intended by that Appellation So that according unto this Supposition S t Peter intending to acquaint them unto whom he wrote where he was when he wrote unto them and to present them with the respects of the Church in that place had by an aenigmatical expression rather amuzed than informed them Besides he had before this agreed with and solemnly engaged himself unto Paul to take care of the Circumcision unto whom after he had preached a while in Palestine it is more than probable that he betook himself unto Babylon in Assyria the principal seat of their residence in their first and most populous dispersion from whence he wrote unto all their Colonies scattered abroad in the neighbouring Nations So that although I will not because of the consent of many of the Ancients deny that Peter went to Rome and preached there yet I am fully satisfied that this foundation of the Story told by them is a perfect mistake consisting in an unwarrantable causless wresting of a plain expression unto a mystical sense and meaning 3. Your Witnesses agree not at all in their Story neither as to the time of his going to Rome nor as to the occasion of it nor as to the season of his abode there Many of them assign unto him 25 years for his residence there which is evidently false and easily disproved This computation is ascribed to Eusebius in Chron. Lib. 1. but it is evidently an addition of Hieroms in whose dayes the Tradition was encreased for there is no such thing in the Original Greek Copy of Eusebius nor doth it agree with what he had elsewhere written concerning him And it is very well worth while to consider how Onâ—phrius Panvinus a very learned Antiquary of your own party makes up these 25 years of Peter's Episcopacy at Rome Annotat. in Plat. in Vit. B. Petr. Ex novem primis annis saith he post Christi mortem usque ad initium secundi and Imperii Claudii Petrum Judaea nunquam excessisse ex Actis Apostelorum Pauli Epistola ad Galatas apertissimè constat Si igitur ut inter omnes Authores convenit co tempore Romam venit illud certe necessarium videâ—ur eum ante ad urbem adventum Antiochiae septem annis non sedisse sed hanc ejus Antiochenam cathedram alio tempore fuisse Quam rem ex vetustissimorum authorum testimonio sic constitui Secundo Imperii Claudii anno Romam venit à quo tempore usque ad illius obitum anni plus minus viginti quinque intersunt quibus etsi eum Romae sedisse Veteres scribunt non tamen praeterea sequitur ipsum semper in urbe commoratum esse Nam quarto anno ejus ad urbem adventus Hierusolymam reversus est ibi Concilio Apostolorum interfuit inde Antiochiam profectus septem ibidem annis usque ad Neronis Imperium permansit cujus initio Romam reversus Romanam dilabentem reparavit Ecclesiam Peregrinatione inde per universam fere Europam suscepta Romam rediens novissimo Neronis Imperii anno martyrium Crucis passus est For the first nine years after the death of Christ unto the beginning of the second year of Claudius it is most evident from the Acts and Epistle to the Galatians that Peter went not out of Palestine If therefore as all agree he came at that time to Rome it is certain that he bad not abode at Antioch seven years before his coming thither which yet all the Witnesses agree in but this his Antiochian Chair fell out at some other time Wherefore I thus order the whole matter from the Testimony of most Ancient Authors not that any one before him ever wrote any such thing but this he supposeth may be said to reconcile their Contradictions In the second year of Claudius He came to Rome From thence unto his death were 25 years more or less which space of time although the Ancients write that he sate at Rome yet it doth not follow thence that he alwayes abode in the City for in the 4 th year after his coming he returned unto Jerusalem to be present at the Council of the Apostles thence going unto Antioch he continued there seven years unto the raign of Nero. In the beginning of his raign he returned unto Rome to repair the decaying Church there from thence passing almost through all Europe he returned again to Rome in the last year of Nero and under went Martyrdome by the Cross. You may easily discern the uncertainty at least of that Story which this learned man can give no countenance unto but by multiplying improbable imaginations to shelter one another For 1. Who ever said that Peter came from Rome to come up to the Councel at Hierusalem when it is most manifest from the Story of the Acts that he had never before departed out of Judea and this Councel being granted to have been in the 6 th year of Claudius as here it is by Onuphrius quite overthrows the Tradition of his going to Rome in his second 2. The abode of 25 years at Rome as thus disposed is no abode indeed for he continued almost twice as long at Antioch as he did at Rome 3. Here is no time at all allowed unto him for preaching the Gospel in Galatia Cappadocia Asia and Bythinia which certainly are not Provinces of Europe in which places Eusebius Hist. Lib. 3. cap. 1. Origen and all the Ancients agree that he did attend unto his Apostleship towards the Jews and his Epistles make it evident 4. Nor is there any time left for him to be at Babylon where yet we know he was so that this fancy can have no countenance given it without a full rejection of all that we know to be true in the Story 4. The Scripture is utterly silent of any such thing as Peters going to Rome Other journeyings of his it records as to Samaria Lydda Joppa Caesaria Antioch Now it was no way materiall that his coming unto any of these places should be known but only in reference unto the things done there by him and yet they are recorded But this his going to Rome which is supposed to be of such huge importance in Christian Religion and that according to Onuphrius falling out in the middest of his other journeyings as it must do if ever it fell out is utterly passed by in silence If it had been to have such an influence into the very being of Christianity as now is pretended some men will be apt to think that the mention of it would not have been omitted 5. Paul in his Epistle to the Romanâ— written a good while after this imaginary going of Peter to Rome makes no mention of him when yet he saluted by name those of chief note and dignity in the Church there So that undoubtedly he was not then come thither 6. The same Apostle being at Rome in the reign of Nero in the amidst of the time allotted unto the
in sacrificing according to the Order of that then in preaching of the Mysterie and Doctrine of this Did never any man inform you that one end of preaching the word was to regenerate the whole souls of men and to beget them anew unto God that it was also to open their eyes and to illuminate them with the saving knowledge of God in Christ that it was to beget and encrease faith in them that it was to be a means of their growth in Grace and in the knowledge of God that the Word preached is profitable for reproof Correction Dotrine and instruction in righteousness that it is appointed as the great means of working the souls of men into a likeness and conformity unto the Lord Jesus or the changing of them into his Image that it is appointed for the refreshment of the weary and consolation of the sorrowful and making wise of the simple Did you never hear that the word preached hath its effect upon the understanding and will as well as upon the Affections and upon these consequentially only unto its efficacy on them if they are not deluded Is growth in knowledge faith grace holiness conformity unto Christ Communion with God for which end the word is commanded to be preached nothing at all with you is being made wise in the mysterie of the Love of God in Christ to have an insight into and some understanding of the unsearchable treasures of his Grace and by all this the building up of souls in their most holy faith of no value with you Are you a stranger unto these things and yet think your self a meet person to perswade your Countreymen to forsake the Religion they have long professed and to follow you they know not whither Or do you know them and yet dare to thrust in your scurrility to their exclusion Plainly Sir the most charitable judgement that I can make of this Discourse of yours is that it proceeds from ignorance of the most important truths and most necessary works of the Gospel You next proceed to your plea from the Cherubims set up by Moses in the Holy place over the Ark and thence you will needs wrest an argument for your Images and the worship of them Although your Vasquez is ashamed of it and hath cashiered it long ago and that worthily as not at all belonging unto thus matter For 1. The Cherubims were not Images to which you say since the real Cherubims are not made of beaten Gold those set up by Moses must be only figures but it is of Images that we are speaking precisely and not in general of figures figures may include Types and Hieroglyphicks and any representation of things Images represent Persons and such alone are those about which we treat And if a Person be not presented by an Image it is not his Image Now I pray tell me what personal subsistences these Cherubims with their various wings and faces did represent Do you believe that they give you the shape and likeness of Angels It is true John the Bishop of Thessalonica in your Synod of Nice with the approbation of the rest of his company affirms that it was the opinion of the Catholick Church that Angels and Archangels were not altogether incorporeal and invisible but to have a slender body of ayre or fire Act. 5. But are you of the same mind or do you not rather think that the Catholick Church was belyed and abused by the Synod And if they are absolutely incorporeal and invisible how can an Image be made of them Should a man look on the Cherubims as Images of Angels would not the first thing they would teach him be a ley namely that Angels are like unto them which is the first language of any Image whatever The truth is the Mosaical Cherubims were meer Hieroglyphicks to represent the constant tender love and watchfulness of God over the Ark of his Covenant and the people that kept it and had nothing of the nature of Images in them 2. I say suppose of them what you please yet they were not set up to be adored as your Images are To which you reply It is not to my purpose or yours that they were not set up to be adored for Images in Catholick Churches are not set up for any such purpose nor do I anywhere say so No man alive hath any such thought no Trâ—â—â—tion no Council hath delivered it no practice infers it And do you think meet to talk at this rate have you no Tradition amongst you that you plead for the Adoration of Images hath no Council amongst you determined it doth not your practice speak it were you awake when you wrote these things did you never read your Tridentine Decree or the Nicene Canons commended by them is not the adoration of Images asserted an hundred times expresly in it hath no man alive such thoughts are not only Thomas and Bonaventure but Bellarmine Gregory de Valentia Baronius Suarez Vasquez Azorius with all the rest of your great Champions now utterly defeated and have not one man left to be of their judgement I would be glad to hear more of this matter Speak plainly do you renounce all adoration and worship of Images is that the Doctrine of your Church prove it so and I shall publickly acknowledge my self to have been a long time in a very great mistake But it was for this cause that I gave you a little Image of the Doctrine and practice of your Church in this matter at the entrance of our discourse foreseeing how you would prevaricaâ—e in our progress Come Sir if Image Worship be such a shameful thing that you dare not avow it deal ingenuously and acknowledge the failings of your Church in this matter and labour to bring her to amendment If you think otherwise and in truth yet like it well enough dâ—al like a man and dare to deteâ—d it at least as well as you can and more no 〈◊〉 can look for at your hands You mention somewhat of the different opinions of your Schoolmen in this matter which you sleight But Sir I tell you again that you and all your Masters are agreed that Images are to be adored and venerated that is worshipped and their disputes about that honour that rests absolutely on the Image and that which passeth on to the Prototype with the kind of the one and the other are such as neither themselves nor any other do understand You tell us indeed All Catholick Councils and practice declare such sacred figures to be expedient assistants to our thoughts in our divine meditations and prayers and that is all you know of it But if you intend Councils and practice truly Catholick or Primitive you can give no instance of allowing so much to Images as here you ascribe unto them no not one Council can you produce to that purpose for some hundreds of years but a constant current of Testimonies for the rejection of such pretend expediencies and assistances