Selected quad for the lemma: tradition_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
tradition_n	faith_n	scripture_n	write_v	3,423	5	6.0492	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10046	The defence of truth against a booke falsely called The triumph of truth sent over from Arras A.D. 1609. By Humfrey Leech late minister Which booke in all particulars is answered, and the adioining motiues of his revolt confuted: by Daniell Price, of Exeter Colledge in Oxford, chaplaine in ordinary to the most high and mighty, the Prince of Wales.	Price, Daniel, 1581-1631.; Leech, Humphrey, 1571-1629. Triumph of truth.	1610 (1610)	STC 20292; ESTC S115193	202,996	384

this it will bee no otherwise prooved then c Confess Petric c. 92. de Traditionibus Hosius proveth that the greatest part of the Gospell is come to vs by tradition and verie little of it committed to writing which is a most rash false conceipt of his But Andradius acknowledgeth that the Cittie of refuge for all the runnagate points in Religion is Tradition His words d Andrad Orthod explic lib. 2. pag. ●0 be Quam traditionum autoritatem si tollas nutare vacillare videbūtur Manie points would reele totter if not supported by the helpe of Traditions Saint e 1. Cor. 9.6 Paule hath warned that no man presume aboue that which is written and f Regul contract 95. fol. pag. 502. Basill admonisheth that it is necessarie and consonant to reason that everie man learne that which is needfull out of Scripture both for the fulnes of godlines and least they bee invred to humane traditions Yet I answere concerning Traditions that when this controversie is fully discussed you wil be as vnable to proue your position from anie Apostolicall tradition as the men of Doryla in g Cicero pro L. Flacco Tully who when they were to proue somewhat against Flaccus out of their publike Records and their records were called for they said they were robd of thē by the waie so your Traditions which must speak for you they are lost by the waie no one neither Bellarmine nor Coccius nor Sonnius nor anie writer can produce one Apostolicall sanction tradition or authority And for the practise of the Church the Ecclesiasticall histories shew that the ancient servāts of God which first retired themselues from the worlde did it not for anie opinion they had hereby to obtaine perfection but to escape persecution as h Sozomen lib. 1. c. 12. Sozomen writeth and to hide themselues And some of them were lay-men as k Athan. Ep. ad Dracont Dyonisius voucheth some of them married men as i Dion Ecclesiae hierar c. 6. Athanasius recordeth all of them freemen from binding themselues with vowes as l Nic. lib. 9. c. 14. Nicephorus proueth And for the practise of Popish Monkes now the patterns of this Evangelicall perfection m Philobib c. 5. Dunelmensis delivereth it Greges vellera fruges horrea porci olera potus patera lectiones sunt hodie studia Monachorum And you knowe the old verse O Monachi vestri stomachi sunt amphora Bacchi Vos estis Deus est testis teterrima pestis Mr LEECH But yet since contrary to my probable persuasion certaine private spirits whose faith is their owne fancy itching rather after prophane novelty and hereticall innovation then abiding the wholesome doctrine of sacred Antiquitie and the Churches dogmaticall tradition haue by all meanes laboured to impugne my doctrine and to defame my person I haue thought my selfe in conscience and duty both before God and man obliged a swell for the generall satisfaction of all whom this present busines may any way concerne as for my owne discharge in particular being the party herein especially interessed briefly to cōpile and publish the whole carriage and progresse of this matter in the ensuing treatise humbly recommending and ever submitting my opinion vnto the graue and infallible iudgement of the Church at whose feete and tribunall alone prostrating my selfe I must stand or fall as also referring my selfe with the moderat deportment of my cause vnto the sincere iudgement of the discreet and impartiall Reader ANSVVER You were drawne to this vnwillingly in respect of your vnabillity to maintaine the opiniō but most willingly in desire to stand out in contradiction But why should you rubbe ouer any here with the title of itching spirits Barn It is the rule of S. Bernard when in disputation or cōference there is rayling or reviling tunc non veritas quaeritur sed animositas fatigatur Truth is not sought for but strong and stubborne stomakes disgordge their poison Hee that hath giuen leaue to try the spirits hath prohibited the condemning nay iudging of a brother and therefore while you slander them with the itch of prophane novelty you bewray your selfe to bee infected with the scab of heresie They that gainesaid your doctrine were wise and honest learned and religious not a few but the consent of all of all degrees among vs. And so farre are they from defaming of your person that I doe assure my selfe that everie religious honest heart in Oxford will bee desirous to cover it with the mantle of charity to pray that it maie bee invested with the robe of Christs righteousnes wishing from our harts that no other cause then conscience and duty as you saie had obliged you to publish this your Treatise and that the discharge of your selfe and satisfaction of others had beene more truelie and charitablie performed that you had submitted your opinion to Gods word rather then the Church seeing the Church is not the infallible rule of iudgement as you hold n Relec. controu 4. de potestat ecclesiae in se q. 3. art 2. resp ad arg 5. Stapleton him selfe after lōg discussing durst not absolutelie affirme it but seemeth to make it rather probable then credible when he confesseth that it is not anie article of our faith to beleeue that the authoritie of the Church is the rule of our faith And not only a Doctor but a Pope speaketh in this case more plainlie o Decret Greg. lib. 5. de sent excom c. 28. a nobis saepe Innocentius affirming that the Churches iudgement followeth opinion which often deceiveth and is deceived And howsoever I maie saie to you as p Aug. de vnit Eccles cap. 2. S. Augustine did to some heretiques of his time De hoc inter nos quaestio versatur vtrùm apud nos an apud illos vera Ecclesia sit the question being controverted betweene you and vs whethers is the true Church neither of vs can proue the argument by the Church seeing q Chrysost in Hom. 10. in 1. Tit Chrysostome doth conclude that the Scriptures must teach who hath the true Church r De vnit Eccles cap. 16. S. Austin resolving that Scriptures be documenta fundamenta firmamenta the proofes foundations grounds of our cause and therefore vnlesse you bee contented to submit your opinion to the Scriptures it is manifest that you acknowledge that your doctrine and the Scriptures were never acquainted The Pharisies the false porters of the kingdome ſ Mat. 23.13 tooke awaie the key of knowledge and they received their reward a volley t Luk. 11.42 of wo. Take heede least doing the like you incurre the like danger More respectiue are the Schoolemen of Scripture then you are u Lom dist 23. Lōbard x Scot. 3. dist 23. q. vin Scotus y Oc. 3. q. 8. art 3. Ockam z Bi 3. dist 23. q. 2. lit g. h.

is to iudge the later ANSVVER Who ever that was a supposed member in our Ecclesiasticall state durst disclaime the iudgement censure authority of our Church But your reasonlesse reason is the later Church is not to iudge the former If by the former Church you meane the ancient Catholike Church for the first 500. yeeres we maintaine our reformed Church to bee the same but if by the former church you meane the now Roman Catholike faith as Bristow and the Rhemists deliver Bristow mot 12. in marg Rhem in Annot in Rom. 1 8. that the Romane and Catholike Church be all one then we reiect and abhorre that Synagogue of Sathan wherein Ziim and Iim the Ostrich and Vulture and Schritchowle doe remaine And by many more degrees then Papistes prefer the Pope before the Emperour wee preferre the Reformed Churches which doe mainetaine the ancient Catholike Apostolike faith reformed from errors superstitions and heresies stealing in by the degrees of time and occasion into the window of the Church Mr LEECH And what did I herein good Reader but obserue the prescription of Antiquity in this behalfe Contr. Iulian Pelag. lib. 2. and namely that of S. Augustine against the Pelagian hereticks Patres oportet vt populi Christiani vestris novitatibus anteponant eisque potius eligant adhaerere quàm vobis ANSVVER Nay what did you but as Pelagian himselfe did magnifie the nature of man so strengthen the arme of flesh as if you would incite it to rebell against heaven and what did you otherwise then as hereticks of all ages who haue stoode so much vpon authorities out of some authors falsely collected that they will not be drawn no not by Scriptures to the acknoweledgemēt of their errors Such S. Austin observed the Donatists to be Aug. contra Donatist Quis autem nesciat sanctam Scripturam Canonicam tam veteris quā novi Testamēti c. where in a large discourse hee manifesteth that the Canon of Scripture is only so sure that there ought to bee no doubt or disputation thereof but for Fathers and Ancient Bishops much might be reprehended therein The cause that S. Austin in confuting the Pelagians did appoint the reading of the fathers to the people was this because the fathers formerly had delivered by strength of scripture the contrary doctrine to that heresie And yet that holy father speaking of himselfe and al the ancients before him Neque enim debeo negare saith he ad Vincentiū sicut in ipsis maioribus Aug. ad Vincentium Victorem ita multa esse in tam multis opusculis meis quae possunt iusto iudicio culpari that in him nor in any other this is a prescription of Antiquity to rely only on fathers Mr LEECH Here D. Airay distasting my refusall to stand vnto the verdict of the reformed Churches questioned with me about the rule of my faith I answered him briefly Contr. haeres cap. 1. c. See D. Field pag. 239. that I wholly followed Vincentius Lyrinensis his direction to wit Canonicall scripture and Ecclesiasticall traditiō the first being sensed by the second ANSVVER To refuse the iudgement of the ruler and to fly to a stranger is punishable in Policy to condemne and contemne your owne mother Church and to stand to the iudgement of a strange Church nay of a Synagogue a stranger from the Church is culpable in divinity It was a seasonable question to aske the rule of your faith whē it was manifest you had forsaken the faith your answer was vnsound ioining with Canonicall Scripture Ecclesiasticall tradition these be two therefore not the rule but rules whereas Canon regula must be but one Aq. lect 1. in 1. Tim. 6. Aquinas on Timothy affirming that the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles is called Canonicall because it is the rule Traditions wee renounce as vnworthy to be ioyned with Scripture Melch. Can. lib. 3. c. because Canus in this doeth expresly teach that whatsoever the Church of Rome practiseth and hath not warrant from Scripture the same things and the practise of them shee hath received by Tradition which Popish traditions we abhorre to supply scripture with as knowing that the Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation and also affirme that the most certaine rule of interpretation is by comparing Scripture with Scripture Vincentius Lerinensis is not for you he alloweth nothing barely vpon Tradition For by all the passages of his booke he doth plainely teach that no Traditiō is to be received but that which is consonant vnto Scripture such as S. Austin delivereth Quod vniversa tenet Ecclesia Lib. 4. contra Don. cap. 23. such as the whole Church hath doth hold agreeing to the Canon of the revealed word And from famous D. Field that powerfull hammer of all Heretikes that claime tenure in the Church you cā produce nothing to helpe your cause either in that page or in his whole booke Neither is Tradition to sense or expound the Scripture as you say This is your third interpreter first you appealed to the Church then to the Fathers now to Traditions the next appeale must bee to the Pope or else you will be cashierd Mr LEECH This rule he called Popish exclaiming against it as the very ground of Popery and superstition Wherevpon I desired him for my better instruction to giue a rule of faith more certaine infallible then this which be brāded with such disgracefull imputation ANSVVER Popish it is without all gainsaying For howsoever we reiect not all Traditions as first D. Field in his 4 booke of the Church the number and names of the Authors of Canonicall Scripture secondly the cheefe heades of Christian doctrine as delivered in the Creed of the Apostles Thirdly the religion purely collected out of Scripture delivered to succeeding ages fourthly the continuall practise of the Primitiue Church though not expresly commaunded but necessarily contained in Scripture and lastly Traditions of order not of faith such as are our Canons and Constitutions agreeing to the ancient and grounded on S. Paules speech Let all things be done in order I say we reiect not these though Waldensis in his time complained Waldens tom 3. tit 7. cap. 63. that the necessary Traditions of the Church were so confounded that they could hardly be discerned from the rest The points that we deny bee these first Scripture needeth not the Adiectiue help of Traditions it is a most sufficient rule and containeth all things necessary to salvation Secondly wee abhorre the comparison of these two and much more the preferring of tradition before Scripture as Hosius Baronius Symancha and others professe some affirming Hosius contr Petric c. 92. Baron an 33. nu 11. Sym. instit tit 24. n. 40. that all Scripture came to vs by Tradition therefore Tradition more worth others that Scripture needeth help from Traditions but Traditions neede no assistance from Scripture And therefore if you

Arius in the difference of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the mistaking was heresie the death of the soule The Hebrewes haue a Tradition in their Talmud that they that could not discerne the pronouncing of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should not be made Priest Meg. c. 3. p. 24 or reader in their Synagogue And surely vnfitte is hee to write of Counsells that knoweth not the difference of letters in Concilium and Consilium I hold those titivillitious altercations of some Criticks not altogether so necessary as whether Epistula or Epistola iccirco or idcireo cotidie or quotidie bee the better reading But in a matter of moment of maine differēce a letter may much alter the sense Caranza Caranza in Epit. Concil in Concil Laodicens Can. 35. in the Councell of Laodicaea the 35 Canō which was made against the worship of Angells putteth in Angulos insteed of Angelos hauing no other corner to runne into to free his Church from the assertion of Idolatry and in this there was wit ioined with knavery so that it was pretty though pestilent but it was absurd to continue in your written Coppy ever to write Concilia with the ● in steed of s as fearing to make longam literā The great difference of the things and the warning of Franciscus Sōnius should haue made you more criticall For Sonnius very plainely giueth a Caveat in this behalfe as supposing some such as your selfe should hereafter need it This is such a soloecisme in any learned iudgement that it would haue cost a lashing in any free schoole in England And howsoever you hold that commō rude speech of the Popes true Fiatur in cōtumeliam omniū Grammaticorum yet not Theologorum Mr LEECH And howsoever the truth of this doctrine hath not already nor yet haply hereafter shall escape the tongues and penns of some malitious or ignorant carping adversaries enimies of God and his Church yet can it never be suppressed but it will prevaile in the ende and florish like a greene palme tree being iustifiable and glorious both before God and man where reason swaieth and not passion rageth ANSVVER Heresie hath beene gainsaid in all ages and among the rest this where by the title of Evangelicall Counsells of perfection vaine Imaginarists haue sought to proue merits perfection supererogation and other strange and false positions To the suppressing of which the Fathers in all ages haue concurred as to the extinguishing of a generall devastation by fire Account you the opposers of your doctrine malitious and ignorant carping adversaries but God whose cause they haue in hand seeth and iudgeth whether they that acknowledge their sinnes or they that obiect their merit whether they that confesse thēselues vnprofitable servants or they that professe Angelicall perfection Psal 19.7 they that with reverence doe beleeue the law of the Lord to be perfit and an vndefiled law or they that accuse it for want imperfection they that professe it is impossible to fulfill the law or they that vaunt of performing more then is required by the law and as he seeth and iudgeth so he rewardeth every man according to his worke and hath pronounced that the wicked shall bee as the chaffe that the wind scattereth to and fro Psal 1.4 Mr LEECH Farther I can for more full complement if neede bee produce all charters roles evidences iudgements cēsures sentences arrests of all Christian parliamens the vmpiring determinations of the highest Ecclesiasticall tribunalls and generall Councells notwitstanding all pretenses pleas intrusions surreptions shifts contentions of all Hereticall Iovinianists ANSVVER This Paragraph hath put you out of breath put truth out of you It is like that congerious and multiplicious numeration of Criticks Phrases in Merula where he reckoneth vp Commentarios Adversaria Merula pag. 218. Annotationes Scholia observationes Animadversa Castigationes Disquisitiones Miscellanea Centurias Syntagmata Collectanea Catalecta Spicilegia c. Such is your disfigured figure in conglomerating your charters roles evidences sentences arrests c. But what haue these to doe with Evangelicall Counsells Quid ad Rhombum any of sense that readeth it will afford no other allowance but this of the Poet Hor. art Poet Quid dignum tanto feret hic promissor hiatu If I should follow you in this kinde I could vrge to make vppe an army royall in encounter of yours all Scriptures Patriarkes Prophets Apostles Martyrs Saints Kings Bishops Fathers Doctours Professours Schooles Chaires Vniversities decrees of the Church Canons of Councels Constitutions of Synods Histories acts and monuments of all times and of all places Notwithstanding the Index expurgatorius of the Pope the demolishing of Antiquity by the Iesuits the Corruption of the Fathers all authorities by the Vatican impostors and all the endeavors of Rome and Hell to violate the truth Mr LEECH Ad nihilum devenient tāquam aqua decurrens which S. Austine doth fitly apply vnto heresies Such is the difference betwixt truth and falsehood that errour in time as it is but the entertainement of time will of it selfe fall away when Truth will stand impregnable how many soever impugne her so true is that of the Apostle we can do nothing against truth ANSVVER The difference betweene truth and falshoode is as much as the height of heauen and the depth of hel But you never tooke paines to distinguish truth frō falsehood never to enquire publikely or to study seriously the arguments against your opinion S. Augustine thought it fit to make knowne whereof he stoode in doubt and also wherefore your course was otherwise Aug de Genesi literam you conceived in the eare and brought foorth in the mouth you read Coccius Bellarmine beleeved them and preached them and tooke vp from thē vpon trust but not vpō truth You builded vpō the sands your building is fallen because not founded on the corner stone for other foundatiō can no mā lay then that which is laid even Iesus Christ Mr LEECH And therefore leaving thee modest and discreet Reader to iudge of the matter doctrine now in difference as reason and Religion shall induce thee and not as the instigation and humour of some factious persons will seek to mislead thee I proceede to prosecute the remainder of this businesse hoping that no man of any apprehension will suffer himselfe to be deceived by vaine vnlearned suggestions ANSVVER Reason must be submitted vnto Religion but the triall of Religion only is submitted vnto Truth the ancor of Christians in the Tempest of Controversie Accoūt it no instigatiō by humor or prosecutiō against you by favour The Poet is my warrant Hominem malignum forsan te credant alij Ego te miserum credo c. Neither Fathers in divinity nor Fathers by authority can satisfie you but you presume to proceed I feare that like a flie about the Candel you will perish

by faith Your last close concerning men assisted with power to punish you disaffected by peevish fancy is meerely false it was not peevish fancie as your Popish folly tearmeth it but it was religious piety policy that disaffected reiected your doctrine the power of Scripture of Fathers of all authority assisting them Rage not courage strengthned you and therefore Iustice and Religion did censure punish you and God wil without your repentance plague you for your vile and violēt tearms against the disciples of truth your selfe being a fellower of blindnes and a hater of goodnes In the meane time this is my 7 confirmation that our doctrine is true Religion and Catholique seeing they that seeke to disgrace it be either statizing Politiques or slaundering Heretiques able to say little in shewe lesse in sense least in truth Mr LEECH The eight Motiue The Protestantes can patiently suffer the articles of the Creede c. to be violated but they are severe in those things that repugne their vtility or sensuality whatsoever EVery truth in respect of God revealing it and the Church propoūding it is of equall necessity to be beleeved howbeit in respect of the matter it selfe one truth may be of greater consequence and dignity then an other And yet it is not the greatnes of the matter it selfe but the manner of revealing which tieth vs to a necessity of beliefe I will instance in this present busines The distinction of Evangelicall Counsailes from Legall Precepts is a truth to be accepted vpon necessity of salvation Why because it is sufficiently revealed vnto vs by God and fullie propounded by the Catholique Church so that it is either wilfull ignorance not to know it or extreame obstinacy to withstand it But yet the Articles of the Creede which are the first elements of faith commended vnto vs by Apostolicall tradition may iustly be reputed more waighty in respect of the matter which is handled therein as namely the descent of Christ into hell Which article of faith is admirably perverted by the Ministers in England un so much as 3. or 4 sondry opinions thereof are freely and vncontroulably deliuered by them vnto their simple flockes I might instance in their different opinions about the Sacraments and other high misteries of saluation wherin fanaticall spirits expatiate without any reproofe But I willingly pretermit these and come to other particular points of doctrine which I preached amōgst them without impeachment First against Caluin his hereticall Autotheisme destroying the vnity of the divine essence I taught with the Nicene Creede and all antiquity that Christ is Deus de Deo hauing the same substance that is in the Father really communicated vnto him in his eternall generation Secondly with S. Gregory Damascen the Greek Latine Church I taught that Christ assumed our nature perfit and complete in the very instant of his conception contrary to the absurd opinion of diuerse Calvinisticall Protestants who avouch that his incarnation was by tēporall degrees and not by entire perfection in an instant Thirdly that God was only the permissiue not any impulsiue cause of sinne though Calvin blaspheme to the contrary and deride the distinction Fourthly Christ crying out Deus meus Deus meus c was not in a traūce he suffred no torments of hell died not by degrees as though his senses decayed by little and little but in perfit sense paine obedience patience humility constancie he rendred vp his righteous soule a voluntary sacrifice for sin But the common opinion of Calvinists is contrary vnto this position Fiftly Filius spiritus sanctus quoniam non sunt a se diem horam iudicij nesciūt a se pater autem quoniam a se est scit a se Hilar. in Mat. Respectu ordinis non teporis Lib. epist 8. c. 42. In Marc. 13.32 Christ was not ignorant of the day of iudgement either as God or man not as God for though he knew it not primarily originally as of himselfe being not God of himselfe yet did he know it secondarily by way of communication from the Father Not as Man for though hee did not know it Ex naturâ humanitatis yet did he know it In naturâ humanitatis as S. Gregory distinguisheth And this doctrine is contrary to Calvin his blasphemous glosse to wit Christus communem habuit cum Angelis ignorantiam These and many such like doctrines directly opposite to Calvin his tenents as he is cōtrary to truth for though his disciples call him a great light of the gospel yet I rather approue the censure of D. Hunnius Calvin Iudaiz a famous Lutheran saying that Calvin is an Angell of darknesse could passe vnnoted and vncontroled by my Calvinian Iudges and all other adherents vnto that faction Why then is this distinction of Precepts Coūsailes so hatefull vnto the Calvinists Alas it toucheth their coppy hold most of them being either married men or bending that way and therefore let Sacraments Christ Church c be abused nay let many points of Catholique doctrine be preached by Orthodox divines yet they are more attentiue vnto the suppression of this truth the like which doth more directly concerne their carnall pleasure and worldly profit For they that haue sold themselues to be the exact vassals of their owne affections and other mens wils are carefull to provide against any thing right or wrong true or false which may be preiudiciall therevnto rather attending what it is which will maintaine their sensuality thē what is orthodox in sound divinity ANSVVER The dignity of truth with the necessity of every truth we preach but this distinctiō so oft idle and vnnecessarily repeated I passe over as ever holding that they be Evangelicall precepts The Article of Christ his descēt into hell is not perverted by our ministers it is beleeued taught by vs witnesse Mr Rogers in his booke The Catholique doctrine of the Church of England Mr Perkins on the Creed our Articles concluded vpon in Convocation and other bookes in this kinde Bellar. de Anima Christi l. 4. cap. 6. §. quaeritur Bellarmin de anima Christi lib. 4. cap. 6. § quaeritur 2. saith thus Omnes conveniunt quòd Christus aliquo modo ad inferos descenderit Of the maner only of this descending if there bee some doubt there was the like also among the Fathers and so Bellarmine also in the place before cited declareth that aboue threescore Creedes of the ancient Fathers Councells leaue out this Article yet Luther Brentius the Centuriasts retaine it and Calvin cited by Bellarmin lib. 2. Inst cap. 16. § 8. dicit hunc articulum in praecipuis habendum The schoolemen agree not on it Durand 3. sent dist 22. quaest 3. Durand 3. sent dist 22. quaest 3. is confuted by Bellarmin in his booke de anima Christi lib. 4. cap. 15. So that if this be a motiue to forsake vs it should also bee a motiue for you to