Selected quad for the lemma: tradition_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
tradition_n	faith_n	reason_n	scripture_n	2,267	5	6.0519	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20770	A treatise of the true nature and definition of justifying faith together with a defence of the same, against the answere of N. Baxter. By Iohn Downe B. in Divinity, and sometime fellow of Emanuel C. in Cambridge.; Selections	Downe, John, 1570?-1631.; Baxter, Nathaniel, fl. 1606.; Bayly, Mr., fl. 1635.; Muret, Marc-Antoine, 1526-1585. Institutio puerilis. English.	1635 (1635)	STC 7153; ESTC S109816	240,136	421

Duraeus Con. Whitel● p. 140. The Fathers are not counted Fathers when they either write or teach of their owne and what they haue not receiued from the Church p. 1. pa. 75. And Dominicus Bannes The more part of Doctors if some few bee against them make no infallible argument in matters of Faith De iurisd p. 4. Dr Marta also The common opinion of Doctors is not to bee regarded when another contrary opinion fauoureth the power of the keyes and the iurisdiction of the Church De vorb Dei l. 3. c. 10. Likewise Bellarmine The Fathers expound the Scriptures not as Iudges but as Doctors now not to this but that authority is required And De conc In expounding the Scripture the Catholike Church doth not alway and in all things follow the Fathers The writings of the Fathers are no rules and haue no authority to bind vs. In Rom. 14. Finally Tom teltroth Cornelius Mus To speake freely I would yeeld more credence to one chiefe Bishop in those things which concerne the mysteries of Faith then a thousand Augustins Hieromes or Gregories And thus as a right learned writer saith Reinol Conf. c. 2. d. 2. you vse the Fathers as Marchants are wont to vse their counters Sometime they stand with you for pence sometime for pounds as they bee next and readiest at hand to make vp your accounts So that I cannot but maruell how you dare to make that the ground of your Faith which the learnedst of your side so ordinarily reiect as an vnsure foundation to build vpon Shall I tell you M. Bayly you haue been fouly gulled and beguiled by your new Masters For notwithstanding all this faire pretence of Fathers yet in the end not Consent of Fathers but the authority of the present Church must bee your surest anchorhold So saith Gregory de Valentia a man well seene in the Romish mysteries Tom. in Thom. 3. d. 1. q. 1. p. 7. §. 3. De Sacram. l. 2. c. 25. Neither the holy Scripture nor yet tradition alone if yee separate from it the present authority in the Church is that infallible authority and mistresse of Faith So Bellarmine also The firmity of all ancient Councels and Doctrines depends vpon the authority of the present Church And this reason they render because without the authority of the present Church yee can neuer haue infallible certainty either of Scripture or Councels or Traditions which they bee or what is the true meaning of them So that now you must of force remoue your Faith from the ancient Fathers and rest it vpon the present Church But what are you now more safe then you were before Neuer a whit vnlesse you may further bee resolued what is the present Church For it is taken three seuerall wayes by you and is either the Church essentiall consisting of all Catholicks whatsoeuer Prier in Luth. tom 1. fund ● or Representatiue of Bishops in a Coūcell or Virtuall the Pope who is head of the Church Now which of these three must you pitch vpon The first So say some But the most part of this Church is the Vulgar who are not comprehensiue of those matters which are controuerted neither is it possible for you to gather the voices of such a diuided and dispersed body Others therefore direct you to the second But what to a Councell with the Pope or without the Pope For here is such confusion of tongues and part taking of each side that I feare you will hardly find any rest for the sole of your foote this way Howbeit if the most voices of the new cut now adayes may sway it not a Councell without the Pope but the Pope whether with a Councell or without it it mattereth not much Tom. 3. p. 24. must bee the iudge and ground of Faith In this question saith Gregory de Valentia by the Church wee meant the Roman Bishops in whom resides the full authority of the Church when hee pleases to determine matters of Faith whether hee doe it with a Councell or without And Greiser Def. Bellarm. 10. 1. p. 1450. b. when wee affirme the Church to bee iudge of all controuersies of Faith by the Church wee vnderstand the B. of Rome who for the time being gouernes the ship of the militant Church And Albertin I say that besides the first verity there is an infallible rule liuing and endued with reason such as is the Church and this rule liuing and endued with reason is the chiefe B. of Rome So that Tom. 1. dis 44. Sect. 1. the Popes determination is the truth saith Suares and were it contrary to the sayings of all the Saints yet were it to bee preferred afore them nay if an Angell from Heauen were opposed against him the Popes determination were to bee preferred By all which you see that as you haue once already remoued your Faith from the ancient Fathers to your Mother the present Church so must you bee faine now againe to remoue it from your mother the present Church vnto your holy Father the present Pope But besides that it is altogether vnprobable that the Spirit of Truth should bee chained vnto the chaire of those men who many of them haue beene monsters rather then men and not only Heretiks but very Atheists and Infidels I would willingly learne why the Pope is so seldome in the humour to decide controuersies Why haue wee not from him an exact Commentary on the Bible that wee need no longer stand in doubt of the meaning thereof And why doth hee not stint the deadly fo-hood that now is on foot betweene the Iesuites and Dominicans But suppose hee bee both able and ready to resolue what must I trauell from England so farre as Rome for resolution and when I am arriued before him hath hee clouen tongues sitting vpon him to speake vnto mee in the language I vnderstand Or if I vnderstand him how am I assured that speaking to mee hee intendeth to teach the whole Church for otherwise hee may erre as Bellarmine shewes Innocent the eighth did De Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. 14. permitting the Norwegians to celebrate the sacrifice of the Masse without wine Shall I tell you a mystery Whatsoeuer your Priests and Iesuits prate either of Fathers or Church or Pope yet to an ordinary man who cannot of himselfe be resolued by them the authority of his Diocesan is sufficient yea and hee merits by belieuing it although what hee teach bee false This perhaps may seeme strange to you L. 3. d. 25. q. v. art 1. yet thus saith Gabriel Biel If a simple and vnlearned man heare his Prelate preach any thing contrary to the Faith thinking that what his Prelate hath so preached is belieued by the Church Instr Sacer. l. 4. c. 3. such a one not only not sinneth but by belieuing that which is false meriteth And Tolet Againe if a Countrey-man belieue his Bishop propounding some hereticall Doctrine about the

Iewes more then the Epistle to the Hebrewes neither were they all written to all Catholicks for the second and third of Iohn were sent vnto priuate persons onely and all the rest as vniuersally concerne all Catholicks as these few tearmed Catholicke doe I conclude therefore the word Catholicke being latter then the Apostles so must the Creed bee also which vses it Thirdly the different relation of the story bewrayes the vncertainty of it for they giue not all the same article vnto the same Apostle Some marshall them iust as S. Luke doth in the first of the Acts others thus Peter Andrew Iohn Iames the elder Thomas Iames the younger Bartlemew Mathew Simon Iude Mathias Againe some of them attribute vnto Peter part onely of the first article I belieue in God the Father almighty and vnto Iohn the other part Maker of Heauen and Earth But others attribute the whole article vnto Peter and giue another vnto Iohn The like may bee obserued in other articles If then they bee certaine of the tradition why doe they differ thus in their reports If they differ thus one from another who can bee certaine of the tradition Fourthly if the Creed both for matter forme were from the Apostles and they deliuered it precisely in those words in which we now haue it why is it not placed in the Canon of Scripture Certainly in the Church although it euer haue been much esteemed yet was it neuer counted Canonicall Neither hath it been preserued so safe from addition detraction mutation as the rest of the Scriptures always haue been For euen in the ancientest times we find great variety in it Ruffin writing a iust comment on it omits that clause Maker of Heauen and Earth And who knowes not how many there are who relating this Creed leaue out the article of Christ descending into hell De Christi anima c. 6 Euen Bellarmin himselfe confesseth that it was not found anciently in all Creeds and hee voucheth for it Irenaeus Origen Tertullian and Augustin though fiue times he expoūd it and finally the Creed of the Roman Church also as Ruffin witnesseth vnto whom if hee had been so pleased he might haue added a whole armie of others whom for breuities sake I omit Finally the ancient Doctors were so farre from equalling it with Scripture that they appealed from it thereunto as to an higher authority Catech. 4. Cyril plainely affirmeth that wee may not beleeue the Creed without Scripture Biblioth sanc Patr. tom 9. And Paschasius against Macedonius shrowding himselfe vnder some words of the Creed appealeth vnto the Canonicall Scripture for that of it saith hee the text of the Creed dependeth Which had they thought it had been from the Apostles in such forme and as now we haue it without question they neuer would haue done Fiftly the reason which they assigne why they composed this Creed discouers the vanity thereof What was that That it might be forsooth vnto the Apostles a canon rule according to which they should square and conforme their preaching What vnto the Apostles to whom Christ promised his blessed Spirit that should lead them into all truth And that himselfe would put into their mouths a ready answer vpon all occasions so that they should not need to bethinke themselues what to say Could they possibly doubt lest any difference or discord should grow among them in matter of Faith who were so guided by the Spirit of truth and vnity that they could not in any point either erre themselues or lead any other into error Surely so to thinke derogateth much from the truth of Christ and imputeth much weaknesse vnto the Spirit of God and detracteth from the certainty of our Faith which dependeth on their preaching So that for this cause it is vnlikely they made this Creed at leastwise to this end De Symb. ad Cat. l. 1. c. 1. Lastly Saint Augustin saith thus not that false Augustin vpon whom those Sermons de tempore are fathered and whose authority is vsually alledged to warrant this legend but the true S. Augustin saith Illa verba Symboli qua audiuistis per Scripturas sparsa sunt inde collecta ad vnum redacta those words of the Creed which you haue heard are dispersed through the Scriptures and being gathered from thence are reduced into one With him agreeth Paschasius De Spirit Sanct. c. 1. De sacris omninò voluminibus quae sunt credenda sumamus de quorum fonte symboli ipsius series deriuata consistit Let vs take out of the sacred volumes what things wee are to belieue out of which fountaine the order of the Creed is deriued Centur. 1. l. 2. c. 4. And Marcellus a Bishop in a letter to Iulius Bishop of Rome professeth hauing rehearsed the words of the Creed Se hanc fidem ex Scripturis accepisse a maioribus secundum Deum accepisse candem in Ecclesiâ Dei praedicare that he receiued this Faith out of the Scriptures and next after God from his ancestors and that hee preached it in the Church of God If then as these Fathers affirme the Creed bee gathered out of the Scriptures how can the Apostles bee authors thereof For out of the old Testament they could not gather that Christ was borne of the Virgin Mary or that hee suffered vnder Pontius Pilate And as for the new many of the Apostles were dead before all was written and Iames before any was written besides that no part of it was written when the Creed was compiled if it bee true which the legend saith And these are the reasons for which it seemeth vnto me more then probable that the Apostles were neuer Authors of this Creed If it be so will some say why doth it then beare the Apostles name I answere because as out of S. Augustin and others we haue shewed the matter therein contayned is perfectly agreeable with the Apostles writings and was collected out of them Moreouer Apostolicall is a terme extended by writers vnto the first three hundred years after Christ Haet sola fides saith Damasus Ep. 5. quae Nicaeae Apostolorum authoritate fundata est perpetua est firmitate seruanda this only Faith which was established at Nice by the authority of the Apostles is firmely and perpetually to be held So Scythianus and Terebinthus are said to haue liued temporibus Apostolorum in the time of the Apostles Epiph. Haer. 66. who yet liued in Aurelians time towards three hundred years after Christ And Isidor distinguishing betweene Apostles and the First Apostles saith that Apostles continued downe vntill Pope Syluester and that the times before the great Councell of Nice were Apostolicall Although therefore the first Apostles were not the founders of this Creed yet those succeeding Apostles were of whom it may be called the Apostles Creed These things being so let it bee obserued thereupon first how friuolously Papists cauill and quarell with vs affirming that wee hold

not the Faith of the Creed because we question it whether the Apostles were authors of it or no. As if to doubt of the author were to doubt of the truth of the matter or as if all those Ancients reiected the epistle to the Hebrewes for Apocryphall which were not resolued who wrote it whether Paul or Barnabas or Luke or Clemens Secondly how weaklie Popish traditions are supported by the tradition of this Creed For not being the Apostles how can it be a tradition of the Apostles or if it be a tradition of theirs yet is it such a tradition as is written contayned in Scripture and such wee willingly receiue Let them proue the rest of their pretended traditions to be such and we will readily embrace them also But returne wee to our purpose This Creed by whomsoeuer it was made is intituled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Symbol the reason whereof we are now to inquire To let passe those barbarous and iocular notations which ignorant Monks haue giuen of it lest relating them I should both spend time defile my paper some deriue it from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifying as they say a shote or reckoning Ruff. Symb. Aug. ser de tem 115. for that the Apostles meeting together to compile it did each conferre his article as it were his symbole for defraying of this heauenly banket But first the Apostles as we haue declared neuer compiled this Creed Secondly if they compiled it yet as Antonius Nebrisensis saith Quinquag c. 40. it is neither credible nor likely that each of them conferred his particle seeing in those things that are constituted and decreed by many it is not the manner for euery one seuerally to put his word or saying into it but for all iointly to agree vpon the whole Adde hereunto that if it were so men would neuer haue diuided the Creed as they haue done some into seuen articles because of the seuen gifts of the holy ghost very many others into fourteen but onely into twelue according to the number of the Apostles who dictated each of them his article Lastly not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth a shote as the learned know neither can it bee shewed to bee otherwise in any Greeke writer Indeed in Latine writers yee shall sometimes find Symbolum so vsed yet that it is found so in any skilfull Criticks impute it to the ignorance of Notaries and by the warrant of the best Manuscripts restore the Feminine Symbola into the roome thereof Others fetch it from Symbolum signifying a Pledge or token and first such a pledge whereby persons espoused bind themselues to bee faithfull and true one vnto another because likewise in our spirituall espousals with Christ as he giues vnto vs his blessed spirit as an earnest of his constant loue to vs so wee returne backe againe the profession of our faith as a firme pledge of our loyalty and subiection to him This reason caries good likelyhood and proportion with it So doth also the next when it signifieth tesseram hospitalem such a token as Cities were wont to giue vnto their friends that shewing it they might find friendly entertainment in confederate townes or such as one friend was wont to giue vnto an other to the like end Which how it fits the amitie and frienship betweene Christ vs who sees not Neuerthelesse I rather thinke it is so called from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it signifieth a watchword For the Primitiue Church seemeth much to haue beene delighted with militare terms I suppose because in Scripture Christians are so often compared vnto souldiers And hence it is that the Church is distinguished into Militant and Triumphant that Heathen are called Pagans in opposition vnto souldiers that the two mysteries of the Church are termed Sacraments a word importing that oath of obedience which souldiers take vnto their Generals In like manner may the Creed be called a Symbole because it is as a watchword by which true Orthodoxe Christians many discerne one from the other Painims Iewes Turks and Hereticks Heerwith agreeth Maximus Taurinensis Symbolum tessera est signaculum quo inter fideles perfidosque secernitur Hom. de trad Symb. the Symbole is a watchword or marke by which Faithfull and Faithles men are discerned And Ambrose De voland Virg. l. 3. Symbolum cordis signaculum est nostrae militiae sacramentum the Symbole is the seale of the heart and the sacrament of our warfare In Symb. And Ruffin Nequa doli surreptio fiat symbola discreta unusquisque dux suis militibus tradit quae Latine vel signa vel indicia nominantur ut si forte occurrerit quis de quo dubitetur interrogatus symbolum prodat si sit hostis an socius lest there should be any surreption or deceit euery captaine deliuereth vnto his Souldiers a distinct watchword that if they meet with any of whom they doubt by demanding the watchward they may discouer whether hee bee a friend or an enimy And this hee accommodateth vnto the present purpose Now seing the Gentiles were wont to giue for their watchword the names of some of their Gods Xenoph paed l. 3. 7. Pausan l. 10. Suet. Calig c. 18. as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Minerua Iupiter and the like what fitter Symbole could Christians haue then their Faith in the holy indiuiduall Trinity And thus much of the title of the Creed proceed wee yet further Besides this Creed there are diuers others verie ancient both Generall of the whole Church such as are those foure famous ones of Nice of Ephesus of Constantinople of Chalcedon and Particular either of seuerall Churches or of priuate men among which that of Athanasius is most renowned All which though in forme of words they vary yet for substance are all one there being Eph. 4.5 as S. Paul saith but vna fides one faith Neither yet was this number of Creeds needles or endles For when heresies began to encrease and preuaile the Church thought it necessary to set forth some short Confessions by which the people as by a touchstone might discerne the gold of Orthodoxe truth from the copper of errors and heresies Saith S. Hilarie Nihil mirum videri debet fratres charissimi quod tam frequenter exponi fides caeptae sint necessitatem hanc furor haereticus imponit you ought not to maruell much beloued brethren that nowadayes Creeds are so frequently set forth the fury of hereticks hath layd this necessity vpon vs. Thus against Arius denying the diuinity of Christ was the Nicene Creed framed against Macedonius and Eudoxius denying the Deity of the holy Ghost and his proceeding from the Father and the Sonne the Constantinopolitane against Nestorius denying the vnion of both natures of Christ in one person the Ephesine against Eutyches confounding both natures and swallowing vp the humane in the diuine that of Chalcedon Thus of late the reformed Churches to quit