Gods worde or authorities of scriptures but such as is so pitifully wrested and drawen vnto them as euery man may see the holy Ghost neuer ment any such thinge as they gather of them 3 Holde on vpwarde still and Tertullian will witnesse with thee that in that floure of Christes Church with in lesse then CC. yeares of our maisters death Oblationes fiebant annua die pro defunctis That oblations and sacrifice were yearly made at the xij monthes mindes of most men he meaneth both by the sacrifice of the Church and offeringes of the freindes of the departed as there also Repete apud Deum pro cuius spiritu postules pro qua oblationes annuas reddas Call to thy remembraunce for whose soule thou prayes and in whose behalfe thou makes yearly offeringes He speaketh of a freinde of his that practised thus for his wiues departure And in an other place he well declareth the duety of maried persons one towards an other if God by death separate them in sonder Pro anima eius orat refrigerium interim postulat offert annuis diebus dormitionis eius She prayeth for her husbandes soule and obteineth in the meane space ease and offereth euery yeare at the mind day of his passing hense And he letteth not to affirme that the maried couple that practise not thus do not beleue the resurrection Therefore he concludeth thus Nunquid nihil erimus post mortem secundum aliquem Epicurum non secundum Christum quòd si credimus mortuorum resurrectionem vtique tenebimur cum quibus resurrecturi sumus rationem de altetutro reddituri VVhat say you shall we fall to nothing after our death as the Epicure thinketh and not rise againe as Christ teacheth And if we beleue the resurrection of the deade then doubtlesse we shall be bounde to make accompt one of an other as we shall together rise againe Beware here my maisters once againe I must tell you you are going towardes the deniall of the resurrection so many as condemne the vsage of the Church in praying or offeringe for the deade Tertullian sayth you be Epicures in this point and so you be in all others I say you are past priuy muttering in your heartes that there is no God for you are come to plaine Manducemus bibamus cras enim moriemur Let vs eate and be mery we can not tell how longe we lieue I say you must aunswere for parting the affection of man and wife and the one must be countable at the day of iudgement to an other that they procured not the dueties of the deade by right of Gods holy Church for their soules departed Take heede therefore you are warned 3 Nay ho there M. Allen no higher then Tertullian And when we haue examined the testimonies of Tertullian in order as you haue brought them you shall haue small aduantage out of him yea your friendes shall thinke you had bene better to haue made no mention of him For first I must tell you that these three lines which are all that he hath written sounding that way are found in three bookes which all were written by him when he was an heretike separated from the catholike Church And therefore it may well be that all that he speaketh of prayers and oblations for the deade was onely in the conuenticles of the Montanistes of which sect he was an earnest defender rather then in the catholike Church And this coniecture seemeth the more probable because Cyprian which was afterward a catholike Bishop in the same city where Tertullian sometime had liued maketh no mention of prayers for the dead but onely of sacrifice for the Martyrs which was none other but the sacrifice of thankesgiuing lib. 4. Ep. 5. But admit that the Church of God in that time vsed these superstitious prayers and oblations for the deade let vs consider vpon what ground they were vsed The firsâ— place M. Allen allegeth in this forme Oblationes fiebant annua die pro defunctis But Tertullians wordes in libro de corona militis be these Oblationes pro defunctis pro natalitijs annua die facimus We make oblations for the dead for our birthes on the yearly day By which it is euident that M. Allen did not read these wordâ—s him selfe but receiued them of some other mans collection or sound them in some booke of common places But to the matter Tertullian him selfe shall say for me that the same custome with many other which he there rehearseth hath no ground in the holy Scripture Harum aliarum eiusmodi disciplinarum si leges expostules scripturarum nullam inuenies traditio tibi praetendetur autrix consuetudo confirmatrix fides obseruatrix Of those and such like disciplines if you require the lawes of the Scriptures you shall finde none tradition shall be pretended to you to be the author Custome the confirmer and faith the obseruer It is good to take that which is so franckly giuen and more is Tertullian to be commended that confesseth the ground of his errour not to be taken out of the word of God then they that labour to wreâ—t the Scriptures to find that which Tertullian confesseth is not to be found in them I knowe the Papistes will aunswere that tradition is of as good credit as the Scripture is the word of God vnwritten as well as the Scripture is the word of God written But why then doe they not obserue all other things that Tertullian in the same place affirmeth to be tradition if tradition be the word of God why doe they not giue to them that are newly baptised a temper of milke and hony and from the day of their baptisme forbid dayly washing all the weeke after Why doe they not count it a wicked thinge to fast on the Sunday or to pray and worship God on their knees Why doe they not count it a wicked thinge to fast betwene Easter Whitsontide or to pray on their knees all that time Finally why doe not they crosse them selues in the forehead at euery steppe they set forth at comming in at going out at putting on of garmentes at putting on of shoes at washing at the tables at lighting of candles at beddes at stooles and at all thinges what so euer they doe What aunswere can they here make but that their Church may dispense as well with the word of God vnwritten which they cal tradition as she doth against the word of God conteyned in the holy Scriptures So that alwayes what so euer they prate of antiquitie customs traditions vnwritten verities or the word of God vnwritten the authority of their blasphemous church is aboue them all Now to the second testimony alleged out of Tertullian S. Ieronym shall testifie for vs that this booke as the other that followeth was written against the Church so was also his booke de corona militis when he was out of the Church whereby it may
God they are now bestowed according to their founders intent For they that serue the aultar of God must needes pull downe the aultars of idolls And if any portions that were taken from the world be gone to the worldely agayne I meane the Abbies and their landes it is the iust plague of God vpon them that vnder hypocrisie of forsaking the world liued not like men of the world but like deuills of hell And whereas you aske agayne if any man would take from his owne wife children to bestow vppon Priestes wiues and children I haue aunswered before that the chiefe collegiat Churches in England were first inhabited of married Priestes which taught sounder doctrine and liued a more chast life then the Epicureous Monkes that succeeded them I might aske of you M. Allen if they meant not to mainteyne Priestes wiues their children whether they ment rather to mainteyne Priestes whores their bastardes Byshops brothells and their minions Sodom and Gomor of Monkes Fryers it was neither Cutberd VVilliam nor VVilfryde wether they were holy or superstitious but the prouidence of God that appointed such portion as the Church now enioyeth if the same by any meanes should be taken from them yet God hath appointed that they which preach the Gospell shall liue of the Gospell We are not so carefull of worldly liuelihood as you knowing your owne disease imagine that we should be that we would come into your filthy Synagoge to winne Cardinalls hatts or Archbishops palls some of vs if they had sought worldly promotion by abusing their learning wittes to the maintenaūce of your horrible heresies needed not to haue come frō you to seke preferment among the Protestants which you know is neither so great nor so easy to come by as among the Papists 8 But let them on thinke on these matters them selues I will turne againe to my purpose although I can not goe farre from my matter so longe as I am in the beholdinge of that faith which our first preachers brought vnto vs at our first conuersion or in any steppe of the antiquitie which we well perceiue to be the fructe only of that doctrine which we haue declared and an euident testimony of so vndoubted a trueth I thinke there is no way so certaine for the contentation of a mans selfe in this time of doubting and diuersitie in doctrine as in all matters to haue an eye towards the faith which we receiued when we were first conuerted And for that point I woulde wishe that S. Bedes history were familiar vnto all men that hath vnderstanding of the Latine tongue and to all other if it were possible for there shall they plainely see the first beginning the increase the continuance the practise the workes proceding out of the catholike faith feare not that is the trueth for that was the first and that was grounded by Gods worde and openly confirmed by miracle And that point must be considered not onely for our owne countrie but for all others that be or hath bene Christianed For into the selfe same faith were they first ingraffed also as by the peculiar practising of euery good man towardes his freinde and louer I haue already declared and nowe for the generall vsage of Gods Church the reader shall at large perceiue that nothing may wante to our cause whereby any trueth or light may be had 8 The conclusion of your chapter is a recourse to the beginning you thinke it is the suerest way to looke to that faith in all poyntes which this land first receiued If men should follow your counsell as in some things they should follow your faith which you now teach so in many poynts namely in that which you coūt the chiefe the reall presence of the naturall body of Christ they should go as farre from that you teach nowe as you would haue them come neare some things that were receiued thē And wheras you wish that Bedes history for that purpose were made familiar and some of you in deede haue taken paynes to translate it into English they that list not to be deceiued but to see into what faith all nations were conuerted that were turned by the Apostles they were better to consider the word of God and the history of the actes of the Apostles which if you durst abyde the tryall thereof you would exhort men to reade it at least wise that vnderstand Latine And if you were as zealous to sette forth the glory of God as you are earnest to mainteyne your owne traditions one or other of you which haue so longe founde faulte with our translations of the scripture woulde haue taken paines to translate them truely your selues as well as to translate Bedes booke or else to write such bables as you doe M. Allen and all the packe of you but all in vayn◠to shadowe the same whose right shoulde easely discusse all clowdes of darke doctrine and the more it is impugned the more bright shall it shewe and the more it is compared with darkenesse the more glorious it shall appeare That in euery ordre or vsage of celebration of the blessed sacrament and Sacrifice through out the Christian vvorlde since Christes time there hath bene a solemne supplication for the soules departed CAP. XI 1 THerefore let vs see howe the Church our mother of her piety vseth generall supplication in all seruice and solemne administration of the blessed sacramēt euen for those whose freindes haue forgotten them whose paines and trauell worldely men remembre not whose obscure condicion of life or pouerty woulde not suffer them to procure prayers by their knowen deedes of charity or almes Those men I say that doe lacke singular patronage of their freindes those hath she remembred in the rites of celebration vsed in all countries and in euery age sithens the Apostles dayes VVhich ordres of diuine seruice as they haue bene diuers in forme of wordes so they perfectly and wholy agreed in the substance of the sacrifice in praying and offering for the deade and supplication to sainctes as thou shalt straight wayes by their vsed ordre of wordes perceiue And as we goe forwarde herein euer let vs beare this rule in minde Quòd legem credendi lex statuit supplicandi in that sense speaketh S. Augustine often against heretikes the ordre of the Churches prayer is euer a plaine prescriptiō for all the faithfull what to beleue And the motherly affection that the Church beareth towardes all her children departed the saide doctor thus expresseth Non sunt praetermittendae supplicationes pro spiritibus mortuorum quas faciēdas pro omnibus in Christiana Catholica societate defunctis etiam tacitis nominibus quorumcūque sub generali cōmemoratione suscepit ecclesia vt quibus ad ista desunt parentes aut filij aut quicunque cognati vel amici ab vna eis exhibeantur pia matro cōmuni That is to say in our tongue Prayer must not be omitted for the
whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and reaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger
church affirmeth Luther to be an heretike seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately and malitiously erre in any article of faith concerning the substance of religion we doe not beleue her and specially because she is a partiall witnesse against him whome God vsed to discouer so much of her wickednesse to her great hindrance there is no credit to be geuen vnto her when she goeth about to deface him by sclaunderous names and false accusations Thus I haue shewed these thinges that you require both by good reason and also by scripture Therefore if I may beleue you you recant The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 I demand what Church hath mightely gonne through borne downe and fully vanquished all heresies in times past aswell against the blessed Trinitie as other Articles of our religion I Aunswere the true Catholike Church hath alwayes resisted all false opinions contrary to the worde of God as her duty was and fought against them with the sworde of the spirite which is the worde of God and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie and triumphed ouer them So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church from time to time confute heresies by the scriptures and declare in their writinges that by them they are to be confuted for examples sake of a great number I will alleage a few Hylarius writing of the blessed Trinitie against heretikes Lib. 4. sayeth Cessent itaque propriae hominum opiniones neque se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem humanae iudicia extendant Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas impias de Deo institutiones ipsas illas diuinoruÌ„m dictorum authoritates vnumquodque eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place and let not mens iudgements stretche them selues further than God his constitution Therefore against these vnreligious and vngodly opinions of God let vs follow the very authority of God his sayings and handle euery one of them by the aide of him about whome the question is Thus Hylarius woulde haue heresies against the Trinitie to be confuted not by mens iudgement but by God his word Basilius magnus very often testifieth that he woulde haue all good thinges proued by the scripture and all euill thinges confuted by the same In his moralles Dist. 26. Euery worde or deede must be confirmed by the testimonie of holy Scripture for the perswasion of good men and the confusion of wicked men And in his treatise of Faith we know that we must now and alwayes auoide euery voice or opinion that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde And in his short definitions to the first interrogation whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vnto him selfe to do or say any thinge which he thinketh to be good without the testimonie of the holy Scripture he aunswereth forasmuch as our Sauiour Christ sayeth that the holy Ghost shall not speake of him selfe what madnes is it that any man shoulde presume to beleue any thing without the authoritie of God his worde By these and many other places it is manifest that Basilius woulde haue heresies and false opinions confuted by the holy Scriptures Chrysostome vpon Luke cap. 16. sayeth that the ignorance of the scriptures hath bred heresies and brought in corrupt life yea it hath turned all things vpsidown by which it appeareth by what meanes he would haue heresies kept away namely by knowledge of the scriptures It were to long to reherse all the places of S. Augustine by which his minde appeareth that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures and heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures to whose onely authoritie in many places he professeth that he him selfe will be bounde as Epist. 19. ad Hieronymum Epist. 48. Vincentio Epist. 111. Fortunatiano Epist. 112. to Paulina contra Faustum lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis remissione peccatorum contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall scripture before all writinges of Catholike Doctors of Byshops of Councells before all customes and traditions But that he would haue the true Church sought onely in the scriptures it is manifest by these places first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius Nos autem ideo certi sumus neminem se a communione omnium gentium iustè separare potuisse quia non quis quam nostrum in iustitia sua sed in scripturis Diuines quaerit Ecclesiam speaking of the Donatistes he sayeth We are suer that no man could iustly separate him selfe from the communion of all Nations because none of vs seeketh the Church in his owne righteousnesse but in the holy Scriptures So if the Papistes woulde not presume of their owne righteousnesse but seeke the Church of Christ in the scriptures they would not separate them selues from the communion of Christes Church now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popish church Also in his booke De vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2. he hath these wordes Inter nos autem Donatistas quaestio est vbi sit Ecclesa Quid ergo facturi sumus in verbis nostris â—am quaesituri an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christiâ— puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum The question is betwene vs and the Donatistes where the Church shoulde be what shall we doe then shall we seeke her in our owne wordes or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke we ought rather to seeke her in his words which is the Truth and best knoweth his owne body So the question is at this daye betwen the Papistes and vs where the church is let vs seeke in God his worde there we shall easily finde her To the same intent he speaketh in the third fiueth and sixtenth Chapters of the same treatise Furthermore that he woulde haue heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures he sheweth likewise in many places of his workes for writing against Maximinus the Arian lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited he sayeth but nowe neither must I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice nor then the Councell of Arimine for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one nor you of the other but let matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason contend by authoritie of the scriptures not proper to any but indâ—fferent witnesses to both partes If Augustine would not oppresse the Arrians by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell which was the first and the best generall Councell that euer was but only by the scriptures how much lesse woulde he
sermon in such sorte that the common people might vnderstand it and in the 45. Canon they decreed that euery Christian shoulde learne the Creede and the Lorde his prayer Et qui aliter non potuerit vel in sua lingua hoc discat that is And he that can not yet let him learne it in his owne tongue Whereby they declare that they desier to reteine the latine tongue still but rather than the people shoulde be ignorant they commande them to learne their prayers and beleefe in their mother tongue Also by the 43. Canon wherein they iudge that no preeste can saye Masse alone it appeareth that the people commonly vnderstood the latine seruice for they aske how he shoulde saye Dominus vobiscum and admonish the people to lifte vp their heartes and diuers like sayinges where there is none by him but him selfe Nowe if the people vnderstoode not these sayinges it were all one whether they were present or absent Also in the Councell of Rhenes holden in Fraunce about the same time the like decree was made cap. 15. that bishops studie to preache sermons and homelies of the holy fathers so that all men maye vnderstand according to the property of their tongue Finally in the Councell of Laterane holden vnder Pope Innocent the third Anno Dom. 1215. in which Councell transubstantiation was first established the 9. chapter it was plainely decreed that forasmuch as within one citie and diocesse people of diuers languages be mingled together hauing vnder one Faith diuers rites and maners we streightly commande that the bishops of such cities and diocesses prouide able men which according to the diuersitie of their rites and languages celebrate vnto them the diuine seruice and minister the sacramentes instructing them both by worde and example Hereby it appeareth that when the latine tongue was either almost or altogether growen out of the common peoples vnderstandings order was taken that common prayers should be sayed and sacramentes ministred in the mother tongue of euery nation But the bishops which shoulde haue seene it put in execution either negligently omitted it or willingly refused to doe it because it was more for their profit to kepe the people in blinde ignorance So thus I haue shewed that sodenly the tongue of common prayer was not altered 10 Tell me what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope by whome these thinges were wrought vpon what occasion this marueillous mutation was made WHo can tell the originall of euery blind custome and peuish tradition of euery olde error and foolish fashion it is sufficient to shew that these thinges haue no grounde in the scripture of God they were not taught by Christ and his Apostles nor receiued in the church that followed immediatly after them and then we are bolde to say with Tertullian This preiudice there is against all heresies how soeuer they came vp or when soeuer they sprange vp That is true that was first and that is false that is latter therefore from the beginning it was not vsed to praye for the deade nor to the deade from the beginning common prayer was not in an vnknowen tongue Wherefore prayer for the deade and to the deade with prayer in a strange tongue are false when soeuer they beganne or how long soeuer they continued 11 VVho preached against it what historie maketh mention of it who of all your Pastors preached against it was God his Church so voide of the spirit of Trueth and strength that euen then when it most florished it had none that durst open against â—uch corruption of religion as it entred in and when it might soone haue bene repressed BEfore you demande what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and whether it came in sodenly and as though we shoulde aunswere that it came in sodainely you demande who preached against it c. This is to fight with your owne shadowe for we say not that it came in sodainely but that it entred by small degrees at the first and therefore was lesse espied by the true Pastors especially being earnestly occupied against great heresies and open aduersaries that sought to beate downe the cheefe foundations of Christian faith as the Valentinians Marcionistes Manichees Arrians Sabellians and such like monsters So when Satan had gotten in one foote by such craftie pollitie he neuer rested vntill he had thrust in his whole bodie with the power of Antichrist 12 If it coulde not shew me then what yeare of the Lorde this mutation was made and who of all the true preachers did with stand this doctrine SO often as you demande one thinge so often must I aunswere after one sorte this mutation was not all in one yeare nor in one hundreth yeares nor in one thousand of yeares for transubstantiation no small article of your religion was not decreed vntill the yeare of God 1215. what preachers haue withstoode your doctrine at diuers times are declared before in the aunswere to the 8. Article 2. demande 13 Or note the name of him that euer first preached any article of our doctrine and if we note you not by their names euery one of your Capitaines and the seuerall errors that they tought and the time and the yeare when they arose against the former receyued trueth and the Councells in which they were orderly condemned if I saye this can be done of your side towarde vs or if we doe it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recant I Haue noted in the answere to the 6. article 3. demande the names of diuers heretikes that first preached diuers articles of your religion and further I note vnto you Pelagius and Coelestius which tought that free will without grace coulde doe somewhat towardes eternall saluation and that grace was geuen according to merite which article you teach also with culler of a distinction De congruo condigno which is a meere cauill for God is as much bounde vnto congruitie as to dignitie or worthinesse and as he can doe nothing against worthinesse no more can he doe any thing against congruitie which is a kinde of Equitie And whereas you bragge to note vnto vs euery one of our Capitaines c. except you note vnto vs the Patriarches Prophets Apostles Euangelistes and Christ himselfe you shall neuer be able to performe that you promise for we teache nothing but the eternall trueth of God wherefore we refuse not to be counted heretikes if you can proue that we holde any one article of faith contrarie to the scripture you may perchaunce note the names of them that preaching the trueth of our doctrine against your receyued errors were accounted of the world for heretikes but you must proue that their opinions are contrarie to the worde of God or els all your labour is in vaine we confesse also that some articles of our doctrine were taught by heretikes as there was neuer no heresie which had not many thinges common with true Religion but yet in
woulde haue robbed the Church of the actes of the Apostles A sect called Alogiani do refuse the Gospell of S. Iohn with the Apocalypse Martine illiricus Caluine and their companions that no man being but an heretique shoulde euer out pricke them will shoulder with the proudest and lifte out of our Bibles the bookes of Machabees with S. Iames Epistle and more when more nede requireth The which Epistle as also the Epistles of Iohn and Iudas were once doubted of not as conteining any matter wherof the trueth was vncertaine but as bookes not knowen to be of like force as canonicall scripture in the impugning of heresies or confirming articles of belefe as all workes be till Gods Church haue published their authority and declared all thinges in them conteined to be of the same credit that the spirite of God is and of Gospell like trueth And by that authority of the Church what booke so euer be allowed though it was not so taken before yet now we must needes accept it sicut vere est verbum Dei as the very word of god And so be these canonicall Epistles and bookes of Machabees as before is declared Here nowe euery man may learne that it is a very daungerous matter to geue lesse credit to any of these bookes or wauer in any point of faith written in them for such fellowes iudgements that nowe amongest them haue lefte vs neither olde nor newe Testament Such stubborne boldenesse had these willfull men in mainteinaunce of mischeuous doctrine VVhose open impudencie was counted handsome conueiaunce of their scholers and adherents which were very many notwithstanding the Catholike Christian men in all ages both meruailed and lamented their blindnesse And yet doubtlesse it is not much to be wondered at to see that man flatly forsake the scripture of God who is not abashed to refuse and condemne that sense and vnderstanding of the Scripture which the whole Church with all her learned men haue euer allowed and counted most holy VVell by the strength of this piller we haue chalenged and saued hitherto for all the barking of bandogges the Scripture of God with the knowne meaning thereof And so I trust we shall doe still from the new aduersaries by the assured promise of thassistance of Gods holy spirite which shall leade vs not onely to the true canonicall Scriptures with the sense of the same but also guide vs in all truth necessary for our saluation Let euery man therefore here take heede how he doubteth of the knowne and certayne sense that the Church of Christ by decree of councell or consent of doctors applyeth to any Scripture least by mistrusting the sayd sense he goe forward vnaduisedly from open deniall of the common to found a priuate meaning of his owne in the stubborne defense whereof when he shall against the truth malipertly stand he goeth vnluckely forward at the end blasphemously reiecteth the blessed word sacred Scripture of God as we haue proued the auncient enemies of truth to haue done and as in these new sect maisters we may to our great dolour see Yet loe euen these are they that in all ages as Vincentius sayth flye in their talke and teaching ouer the law the prophets the Psalmes the Gospell That cry out of pottes pulpits nothing but Gods word the booke of the Lorde the testament of Iesus Christ Paule scripture as it may be supposed and as in th ende it is proued to driue out of doores Paule Scripture Testament and Christ too and not to bring into the peoples heades or heartes the feare and loue of God the holsom precepts of Paules heauenly preaching nor the true meaning of any Scripture VVho being vrged will rather credit a minstrells ballat then the Machabeis or best booke in the Bible But now you may see that whiles these men thought to saue their credits by miscrediting the Scripture they haue wrought so wisely that they haue lost their owne credits both in this poynt and in all other for euer And as they hoped by deniall of Scripture to cloke their errour they haue wonne to them selues the property of an heretike by open shew of their owne folly 3 And euen as vaine friuolous is this discourse that followeth to shew what bookes of scripture were in olde time refused by what heretikes But you thinke to match vs with them for denying the Machabees where vnto you adde the Epistle of S. Iames. If Martine and Illyricus haue some times doubted of that Epistle they are not the first that doubted of it Eusebius sayth plainely it is a counterfect Epistle lib. 2. cap. 23. And yet he was not accompted an heretike I saye not this to excuse them that doubt of it for I am perswaded they are more curious then wise in so doing but whereas you ioine Caluine with them it is because you can not leaue to lye with out shame while you are an instrument to defend diuelish errors with out shewe of trueth For Caluine receiueth it defendeth it expoundeth it and in all his writings allegeth it as canonical scripture Therefore if he were as ill as you compt him yet it were shame to lye on the deuill But we shall not nede to â—ake among the olde heresies to finde what bookes of holy Scripture you Papistes refuse when it is an easy matter to take your owne confessions and bolde assertions by which it is manifest that you doe not as those heretikes which you name reiect some one or two bookes but the whole authority of all the canonicall scriptures For when you affiâ—me that no booke of holy Scripture is canonicall but so farre forth as your Church will allow it who seeth not that you doe abrogate all maiestie and authoritie from the word of God submitting it to the iudgements of men Moreouer when you will not admit any sence of the scripture but such as your Church wil allow although the same be contrary to the plaine wordes thereof what authority doe you leaue to the worde of God which you make to be but a dead lettre vntil you geue it such a sence as it pleaseth you Finally where you make decrees of men either priuate or common customes traditions vnwritten verities in which is no certainety at all not onely equiualent but also oftentimes superior to the auctority of holy scriptures what certainety credit or estimation doe you leaue to the scriptures of God aboue other writinges nay all other writinges are in better case then the scriptures are with you For other writings may be compted the workes of their authors with out your censure the holy Scripture may not be compted the worde of God except you list so to allow it which may as well refuse that which is Gods worde in deede as you receiue and obtrude that which is not the worde of God at all Other writings haue such sence as the authors haue expressed them selues in their workes and maye be gathered by their wordes The
full of posing M. Protestant as though you were Iohannes ad oppositum I wil pose you M. Allen an other while or any M. Papiste of you all that hath a forheade to mainteine this trumperie for Clemenâ— the auncient Bishoppes writing Alas Syr what if this be proued counterfect that you saye is so olde and you with out peraduenture lye that of late haue founde it so auncient what grounde haue your schollers then Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already how will you proue it then to be a tradition of the Apostles your aunswere wil be still Clenens sayth it But alacke Sir whether is it more licke that Eusebius and Hieronym that lyued neerer to the time of S. Clement by twelue hundreth yeares then you shoulde know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better then you But Eusebius and Hieronym neuer hearde of such writinges as were neuer seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundreth yeares after Clemens his death Where shoulde you haue them then but of some counterfecting knawe that coulde not otherwise maintaine his heresie to be old but by falsyfying and counterfecting a newe that which neuer was in the olde writers heades But to shew that your shamelesse Clement daunceth bare and breechelesse with out all honesty I will yet pose you further and bidde you call your wittes together to aunswere me Whether had you rather graunt that so holy a Pope as Clemens was did erre or â—hat he was a false knaw that woulde father an error vppon so holy a mans name and credit your Syr Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be obserued for the departed according to the olde forme because the people did so obserue the bewayling of Moses But if the scripture affirme that the people bewayled Moses but 30. dayes Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of Gods worde and his foolish decree builded vppon his false grounde How saye you now M. Allen is this Apostolike or apostotaticall is this plaine dealing or Popish counterfecting was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture or was he an ignorant hypocrite that fayned this vnder the name of Clemens Trueth seaketh not to be mainteined which lyes fayth looketh not to be defended by falsehoode The Church of Christ craueth no counterfected authoritie to establish her doctrine Therefore it is neither trueth nor fayth nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ that you mainteine defend and establish by lying falsyfying and counterfecting but error infidelity and heresie he therefore that will forsake the certainetie of Gods worde to builde vpon the traditions of men for leuing the only pathe of trueth hath a iust rewarde to fall into the pitte of error 5 VVell I will close vp this parte of our talke for Tobies almes borde in the obittes of Christian men with S. Augustines graue iudgement who as he is plaine for the benefite of oblations in the memorialls of mens departures in all placies so here in a maner he ordereth the action thereof for abusies that might thereon arise in his epistle to Aurelius The offeringes sayth he obserued for the soules departed whereof there is no question but profet ariseth to them let them not be ouer sumptuous vpon the mindes of the deceased nor soulde away but geuen with out grudge or disdaine to such as be present and woulde be partaker thereof but if mony be offered it may be distributed out of hande to the poore and then shall not those dayes of their freindes memorialles be to their great griefe forsaken or destitute of companie And the ordre with honeste comelinesse shall be kept continually in the Church So S. Clement him selfe teacheth all them that be called to such dayes of prayers for the departed and to be partakers of those oblations or charitable relieues which were by some honest sober refreshing euen in the Church in those dayes obserued whether they be of the laity or of the priestes he geueth them this lesson Qui ad memorias eorum vocamini cum modestia cum dei timore comedite veluti valentes legatione fungi pro mortuis cum sitis presbyteri diaconi Christi sobrij esse debetis priuatim cum alijs vt possitis intemperantes coercere All you that are called to the funeralles of the departed refresh your selues in measure and feare of God that you may be worthy to be as it were in commission of intreatie for the deade and being priestes or deacons of Christ you are bounde to be sobre euen at home but abrode for others example and discipline 5 You had bene as good to haue left out the comparing of Augustines oblations with Tobies almes borde for that custome which most resembled your fantasie of Tobies almes borde Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profit some what Sed quoniaÌ„ istae in caemiterijs ebrietates luxuriosa conuiuia non solùm honores martyrum in carnali imperita plebe credi solent sed etiam solatia mortuorum mihi videtur facilius illic dissuadeâ—i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem si de scripturis prohibeatur oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas verè aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae c. But because this dronkennesses and riotous festes vsed in the Church yeardes of the carnall and vnskillfull people are wonte to be beleued not onely to be the honour of the martyrs but also the comforte of the deade my thinke it were more easy that this filthynesse and beastlynesse may be there diswaded if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures and that the oblations for the spirites of the deade which truely we must beleue doth helpe somewhat vpon the memories them selues be not sumptuous c. But if Augustine had knowen the horrible abuses which grew afterwarde by permission of these oblations he woulde as well haue prohibited them out of the scripture as that hethenish banquettinge in the Church yeardes in honor of the martyrs as for comforte of deade mens soules As for Clement that teacheth the preistes and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating where they were bidden to buriall feastes euen here also he sheweth him selfe in his owne colours As though in the dayes of Clemens when the Church was in great persecution they had nothing els to doe but to keepe sumptuous feastes at their burialls where at the priestes and deacons were in daunger of glouttony dronkennesse as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride seldome temperate or sober and lest of all at burialls and monthes mindes c. That the benefite of prayer and almes appertaineth not to such as dye in mortall sinne though in the doubtefull case of mans beeing the Church vseth to praye for all departed in Christes fayth CAP. VII 1 THus farre we now are broght I trust with proofe and euidence enough with
sacrifice for the deade was instituted by Christ at his last Supper which the holy Ghost afterwarde did secretly suggest vnto the Apostles and they as secretly deliuered to the nations For no worde nor halfe worde therof is conteined in their writings which are to vs the only true testimony of their tradition Thus haue these heretikes no grounde of their heresie but shifte from the worde of scripture to secret tradition from tradition to the meaning of scripture from the plaine meaning of scripture to the vnconstant opinions of men from the variable and contrary opinions of men in times past to their owne obstinacy and continuaunce in error in time present yet he woundreth that we are so blinde that we can not see the cleere light of the trueth If Satan transforming him selfe into an angell of light hath so dasled their eyes that they can not see the true light they are iustly plagued because they haue refused the faithfull testimony of Gods worde which only geueth true light vnto the eyes as the Prophet saith and geuen heede to spirites of errors and doctrines of deuils by whom they are blinded in vtter darkenesse though it be with false imagination and dreaminge of light Yet see the confidence of the man he is suer that if we were examined of our conscience what triall of this doubt we woulde wishe there is none we coulde name but his cause might well abide it Why M. Allen we haue testified of our conscience longe agoe that the onely authority of Gods worde written shall satisfie vs as well in this as in all other matters if you were as desirous to satisfie vs as you pretend and as able to performe as you are to promise we should haue hearde before this time some sentence of scripture to maintaine prayer and sacrifice for the deade not standing vppon voluntary collection but either in plaine wordes or necessary conclusion For there is nothing that we are bounde to knowe nothing that we are bounde to doe but either in expresse wordes or in necessary collection which is as good as expresse wordes it is set forth in the holy Scriptures Beside this you shoulde bring a great preiudice against vs if you coulde bringe the consent and practise of the primitiue pure Church for the space of an hundreth yeares after christ But neither of these doe we looke to see we before see with our eyes the certainety of those thinges whereof now we contend in words and writinges The heretikes of our time and country be yet further vrged vvith the practise of prayers for the deceased their contrary communion is compared vvith the olde vsage of Celebration They are ashamed of the first original of their Christian faith they are vveary of their ovvne seruice they are kepte in ordre by the vvisedome of the Ciuile magistrates and are forced flatly to refuse all the doctors CAP. XII 1 THe chiefe argument that the Church of God vsed in olde time against Pelagius the enemy of Gods grace was this that at the holy altar the Priest prayed to God for to conuert heretikes and infidells to the faith and euill liuers wicked conuersation to vertue and honesty the which prayers had bene to no purpose if the grace of God had not borne the principall stroke in the chaunging of mans hearte But being assured of this as a grounde that the prayer of the Priest in the whole Churches name at the altar can not but beare singular strength and trueth it is necessarily concluded that seeing the publike minister so prayeth that we must needes beleue that God hath mans hearte in his hande and may turne it to the belefe of his worde or loue of his will as he liketh and listeth notwithstanding the perfect freedome of mans will which by Gods grace is neuer perished but alwayes perfected And in this assured foundation of the publike prayers S. Augustine who then was the souldier of grace so triumphed against one Vitalis a Pelagian that he ringeth him this peale Exerce contra orationes ecclesiae disputationes tuas quaÌ„do audis sacerdotem dei ad altare exhortantem populum dei orare pro incredulis subsanna pias voces ecclesiae dic te non facere quod hortatur homo in Carthagiensi eruditus ecclesia etiam beatissimi Cypriani librum de oratione dominica condemna Holde on fellow exercise thy contentious talke against the vsuall prayers of Gods Church and wheÌ„ thou hearest the Priest of God at his altar exhort the people to praye for the misbeleuers scoffe at the holy wordes and make him aunswere thou wilt not pray as he biddes thee And being brought vp in the Church of Carthage condemne withall S. Cyprians worke vpon our Lordes prayer wherein he teacheth the same I tary nowe the longer on this point that thou mayest learne to kepe an heretike at the bay and to fasten thy stroke so surely vpon him that which waye so euer he shifte he shall beare thy blowe vpon his necke and shoâ—lders It is not for our cause taken in hand that I now so much trauell for that is longe sith made sure enough for all the deuills in Hell or their followers in earth But I woulde in this one example of praying for the deade geue the studious a tast of all such wayes as the trueth of all other pointes in controuersy may be both surely defended and so plainly proued and vpholden that the aduersary shall not be able to say baffe vnto any one of the least of all the groundes wherevpon Gods trueth standeth Handeling then our good men as S. Augustine did the like say to them boldely that the same Church which exhorteth the people to pray for the misbeleuers doth geue vs example to pray for the soules departed Vitalis and Pelagius were heretikes for withstanding the one they must needes be as very heretikes for refusing the other It was the greatest extremitie that Pelagius coulde be driuen to by force of Augustines argument to mocke at the priests prayer made at Gods altar and that which then was so foule an absurditie for those false teachers can it be borne out of ours with honestie Vitalis the Pelagian had a foule foyle by S. Augustine â—hen he charged him with the contempt of S. Cyprians authoritie Byshop of Carthage being him selfe a â—hield of the same Church And shall they goe away so smouthly nowe a dayes not only with contempe of their owne English patrons and Apostles but with impudent deniall of all the doctors at once that euer were gydes of Gods Church sith Christes faith was taught It was of Augustine counted a singular arrogancy not to praye in that forme as Gods Church and ministers at the altar both praye them selues and exhorte other to pray and shall it be such prayse for our preachers to erect a new seruice to be checke mate with the olde to controele the rites and vsages of solemne supplication in all countries Christianed and with the
true worship to banish together our fathers faith CAP. XII 1 IN this chapter where he vomiteth out nothing but rayling and lying he doth rather bewraye his owne infirmitie then touch the strength of our cause For being trobled with a sore laxe of the tongue which I take to be a like disease in the mouth that it is in the wombe he gusheth out nothing but bragging and faceing scolding and sclaundering tauntinge and trifling And therefore I will but breefely confute his vanity and turne him to his matches to contend in that kind of quarreling The chiefe argument he sayeth that the Church in times past and Augustine the Churches champion vsed against the Pelagians was to shewe that their heresie was contrary to the publicke prayers of the Church what shoulde I vse many wordes I appeale to the iudgement of all Papistes that haue not loste all vse of naturall reason and indifferent iudgement which either haue reade or will take paines to reade so many workes as Augustine did write against the Pelagians whether of an hundreth arguments that he vseth this insultation be not one of the feeblest which tooke no holde of the Pelagians by force of trueth that is in it but by their owne concession and graunt of that prayer to be godly and them to be of the Church that so prayed But now the controuersie is not onely of the substance of doctrine but of the Church it selfe also And therefore when Augustine had to doe with the Donatistes that challenged the Church vnto them selues he setteth all other tryalles aside and prouoketh onely to the scriptures Therefore M. Allen if you wil teach your schollers to kepe vs at the baye as heretikes you must not teach them to barke and baule nothing but the Church the Church like tinckers curres but you must instructe them to open conningly out of the scriptures how our doctrine is cōtrary to the trueth and yours agreable to the same I do not blame you if you would faine haue that argument of the Church without tryall which is the Church to take place for it woulde ease you and your fellowes of much paine it woulde serue you both for a sworde and a buckler all other bookes arguments and reasons might be layed a side and keepe silence The Church sayth it and we are the Church therefore it is true The scriptures them selues are altogether needelesse where this argument may stand for payment This is so plaine a proofe that the aduersaries shall not be able to saye baffe vnto it In deede they were but sory whelpes that could not say baffe to the bleating of such a calfe as you are which thinke that such a foolish cauill can carry credit with them that haue any cromme of brayne in their heads The Church prayeth so therefore it is true Nay Syr you pray and practise to controle the word of God therefore you are not the Church of god Proue that you doe not so or else prate as long as you wil. And thinke not to dorre vs with Cyprians name where as if you had his iudgement we might be bold to say as the same Augustine hath giuen vs example Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam cum eius quaslibet literas à canonica diuinarum scripturarum auctoritate distinguimus Neque enim sine causa tam salubri vigilantia canon Ecclesiasticus constitutus est ad quem certi Prophetarum Apostolorum libri pertinent quos omninò iudicare non audeamus secundum quos de caeteris literis vel fidelium vel infidelium liberè vindicemus Contra Cresconium Gram. lib. 2. cap. 31. We doe Cyprian none iniurie at all when we put difference betwene any of his writinges from the canonicall authoritie of the holy Scriptures For not without a cause with so holesome diligence is the ecclesiasticall canon appoynted vnto which certeyne bookes of the Prophets and Apostles doe perteyne which we dare not iudge at all according to which we may freely iudge of all other writings either of faithfull men or infidells And againe in the 32. chapter Ego huius epistolae auctoritate non teneor quia literas Cypriani non vt Canonicas habeo sed eas ex canonicis considero quod in eis diuinarum scripturarum auctoritati congruit cum laude eius accipio quod autem non congruit cum pace eius respuo I am not bound to the authoritie of this epistle because I count the letters of Cyprian not as canonicall scriptures but I consider them by the canonicall scriptures and what so euer I finde in them agreeable to the authoritie of holy Scriptures I take it with his prayse that which agreeeth not I reiect it with his leaue Iudge here gentle reader whether Augustine would or should with any indifferency bind either men to the absolute admitting of Cyprians authoritie wherwith he would not be holden him self and know Allen for a Iangler on Augustines wordes against the meaning of Augustine or any reasonable man. 2 I would learne by what Churches example they haue lefte out of their newe fangled phantasticall seruice the offering and praying for the departed One of them was so impudent to say in an open booke that the Lyturgies of the fathers made all against the Catholikes for the proofe of their false assertions VVherein sir I pray you tell me I woulde call you by your name if I knew who you were there you were ashamed of your owne name therefore ye shall lacke the glory of your assertion But who so euer you be I pray you what affinitie betwixt their office of celebration and yours doe you finde they offer the holy hoste they worship it they shewe it they pray vnto it which of all these doe you they blesse it with the signe of the holy crosse they practise the action vpon an altar how well follow you these they pray for the deade they make inuocation solemnely to sainctes they ioyne with all catholike Churches in the worlde where is your cause here amended or ours not plainely proued If their seruice like you so wel or at least better thē S. Gregories Masse you might with more honestie haue chosed for any one of them then haue forged a newe one of your owne which in deede is directly repugnant to all other rites in the Christian world VVhich you may well terme the seruice of contradiction and damnation as one that neither communicateth with the sainctes in heauen with the soules in purgatory nor with the faithfull a liue And being ashamed of the Latine Church you chalenge an other origine of faith out of the Easte parte as though your matter were well amended if you might shake of that faith and worship which our countrie in her conuersion first receiued and in which till this daye she hath happely lyued and make the heade of our holy tradition vncertaine by referring vs vnto an vnknowen origine 2 He would know by what churches example we haue
Scriptures nor in the most auncient writers that lyued with in an hundreth yeares and more after the time of christ And to the particuler practise of the later times we aunswere that it is not sufficient to controll the auncient doctrine and primer practise If we be required to shew some place of any auncient writer which denyeth purgatory or prayers for the deade we haue already shewed that Augustine some time doth doubt whether there be purgatory some time affirmeth there is no meane or thirde place but heauen for the elect and hell for the reprobate likewise for praying or satisfying for the deade we haue alleaged Cyprian and others your owne common law out of Hieronym sayth that the prayers of the liuing profit not the deade 13. quaest 2. In praesenti saeculo c. In this present worlde we knowe that one of vs may be helped of an other either by prayers or by counsells but when we shoulde come before the iudgement seate of Christ neither Iob nor Daniel nor Noe can intreate for any man but euery man must beare his owne burthen Yea Gelasius the Pope sayth that no man can be absolued of the Pope after his death 24. q. 2. C. legatur Wherefore serue the Popes pardons then To that which is required of the expresse word of God forbidding prayers for the deade we aunswere that all places of scripture that forbidde prayers without fayth forbidde prayer for the deade for faith is not euery mans vaine perswasion but an assurance out of the worde of God which because we can not haue in praying for the dead therefore we are forbidden to praye for them If it be against the hope of Christians to morne for the deade much more it is against the fayth and hope of Christians to praye for them For by our prayer we suppose them to be in misery whome the worde of God doth testifie to be in happines to be at rest to be with Christ Iohn 17. Apoc. 14. And as for a place so expounded by an auncient writer I will seeke no farther then the place of Hieronym euen now alleaged out of your owne canon lawe vppon 2. Cor. 5. referring the reader to many other places alleaged in this aunswere as out of Cyprian Origene and others by which the intollerable lying bragging and rayling of this miscreant shal be better confuted then by any contradiction of wordes And where as he sayeth we chalenge the olde doctors before the simple for our partakers whether they be simple or wise before whom we speake as we speake not alwayes before the simple onely but often times and commonly before as wise and well learned men as M. Allen we neuer make any such challenge of them as the Papistes doe which offer to stand to their iudgement in all thinges and yet in most thinges yea in the cheefest pointes of religion that be so in deede or be so compted of them they are contrary to the doctors and olde councells for which cause and not for confirmation of trueth we alleage the authoritie of men for we haue learned as Augustine sayth to geue this honor only to the canonicall scriptures that we must beleue them with out controuersie and all other writings we receiue so farre as they agree with the scriptures and not other wise wherefore we doe not onely saye that the doctors haue erred like men but we haue proued it so that the Papistes them selues can not saye naye for shame But to that he sayth we doe boldely condemne the holy Scriptures that it out of all measure impudent and sclaunderous And that which he citeth out of Irenaeus belike as he had it of some foolish priest that fedde him with notes of doctors or as he is impudent enough to peruerte the fathers meaning him selfe so if he had alleged the whole sentence he might well haue taken him selfe and the rest of his fellowes by the noses for heretikes by the iudgemeÌ„t of Irenaeus whose wordes be these Cum enim ex scripturis arguantur in accusationem conuertuntur ipsarum scripturarum quasi non rectè habâ—ant neque sit ex authoritate quia variè sunt dictae quia non possit inueniri veritas ab his qui nesciant traditionem non enim per literas traditam illam sed per viuam vocem When they be confuted by the scriptures they are turned into the accusation of the scriptures them selues as though they were not well nor of sufficient authority both because the trueth can not be founde of them which knowe not the tradition for that was not deliuered by writing but by worde of mouth How saye you M Allen who is an heretike by Irenaeus iudgement who accuseth the scriptures as though they were not of sufficient authority who sayth the scriptures are like a nose of waxe who saye the trueth can not be founde in scriptures without tradition of vnwritten verities In good sooth M. Allen you haue the worst grace of any that euer I knew in alleaging the sentences of the doctors for you alleage fewe or none but either in whole or in parte they make against you 9 But if you thinke that I feane of them you shall see what shamefull shiftes the maisters and captaines of the contrary assertion haue deuised for the defense of them selues I dare say if the studious be but any whit indiffereÌ„t he will leaue their sâ—hoole for euer The chiefe Captaine of all these contentious heades like an vnshamefast childe affiâ—meth that the doctors praysed and followed the common errors of the ignorant people in almes and prayers for the departed Brentius aunswereth that Tertullian making mention of yearly oblations for the deceased tooke his error of the hethen vsage of the gentility And Augustine he saith affirmed purgatory prayers and almes for them for the affiance that he had in mens merites towardes the remission of sinnes Melancthon as though he were no man that might orre him selfe sayth the doctors were men and discented amongest them selues As for the vsage of any celebration in the worlde what roume can it haue with these champians when Câ—luin confesseth in plaine termes that the celebration of the Sacrament hath bene contaminated euen in a maner sith the Apostles time and first planting of our religion and to reduce it to the puritie againe the man frames a newe one of his owne so farre from superstition that it hath no steppe of religion or true worship of god But well the worde of God is yet safe with them there a man may holde them No surely they are as â—alsie with the very scripture it selfe when so euer it maketh against them Brentius before named is not ashamed to saye that he pardoneth the author of the Machabeis of his error and ignorance And that thou may see the perfect image of a prowde heretike Caluin sayth thus as for the booke of the Machabeis I will not vouâ—hsalfe to make aunswere to it Mercifull God what faithfull
whose workes the aduersaries woulde be glad of one likely sentence And whose life and doctrine are so glorious in Gods Church that their owne aduersaries raling at vs aliue yet dare not but with great feare once blemish their names departed Though sometimes it brastithe out in some one of them to their owne miscredit So beutifull is the light of trueth And on the other side howe miserable is their carefull case that followe and defende that doctrine the authors whereof they dare neither acknowledge nor name whome all good men with open mouth boldely doe reprehend and their owne scholars dare not defende Such a glorious maiesty this doctrine of theires beareth that pricketh vp with pryde those that be alyue and blotteth out of honest memorie her doctors that be deade 10 Nay M. Allen though those doctors build some hay or stuble vpon the onely foundation Christ their case is ten thousand times better then yours which build nothing but dirt and donge tempered with hay and stuble vpon no foundation at all except it be the sande and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our fayth Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name and woe may be to such Catholikes as can finde nothing but hay and stuble where such store of precious matter is and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency And happy be those which not regarding the streames of waters that runne through the vaynes of earth but seeking to the onely fountayne of heauenly truth conteyned in the holy scriptures haue certeyne comfort of saluation while they are aliue and sure possession of felicitie with Christ as soone as they are dead yea which dye not at all because they beleue in Christ which is life nor enter into iudgement but passe from death of this body which is temporall vnto life of body and soule which is eternall The first Author of that secte vvhich denieth prayers for the departed is noted his good condicions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kinde of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that secte And that this heresy is euer ioyned as a fit companion to other horrible sectes CAP. XIIII 1 BVt yet because they haue diffamed our practise in praying and offering for the deade by referring it to a later origine then the Apostolike authority and tradition seeing we haue fathered our vsage vpon such as the aduersaries dare not blame we will helpe them to seeke out the fathers of their faithles perswasion lest by the feare and bashfullnesse of their owne scholars they be vnkindly forgotten Mary to finde out these obscure loyterers it will be somewhat painefull because as theeues doe they kepe by wayes and lightly treade not in honest mens pathes For the finding out of recordes for the testimony of our trueth we kepte the day light the high waye of Gods Church All the knowen notable personages in the holy Citye of God offered them selues both to witnesse and proue with vs VVe droue this trueth from our dayes through the middest of that holy communitie which S. Augustine calleth the Citye of God and our aduersaries will not saye otherwise but they were the liuely membres of that happy and heauenly fellowship VVe brought the practise of it to the holy Apostles by plaine accompte we went with the trueth of our cause to the lawe of Moyses from thense by like light to the lawe of nature But nowe for the other sorte we must leaue the cytie of God and the fellowship of these noble personages of doctors Apostles Prophets and Patriarches and seeke on the lifte hande in the other citye which is of Augustine named the citye or common welth as a man might call it of the deuill in which body all practise of mischiefe and origin of error ishuing from that vnhappy heade to the corrupt and deadly limmes thereof is to be founde VVe shall heare of the aduersary perswasion then in the company of Anabaptistes of Arrians of Saduceis of Epicures where so euer the weedes of the common enemies corrupte seede groweth there shall we find amongest breares and brembles this choking weede with all For as the true preachers the Apostles of Christ Iesu did sowe in the beginning of the Christian church which was the springe of the worde of lyfe and trueth amongest other heauenly seedes of true doctrine that profitable practise for the reliefe of such as were hense departed in the sleepe of peace with the decent ordre which euer fithens the Catholicke Church hath obediently followed euen so Inimicus homo superseminauit zizania the common enemy came afterwarde and ouersewe darnell and cockle either for the vtter choking or else for the especiall let of that good seede which the Maister of this fielde by his houshold seruauntes had plentifully sowen before This common aduersarie as our maister him selfe expoundeth it is the Deuill who as he in all other thinges beneficiall to mankinde is a great staye so Christian mens commoditie in this point he notably hindereth by his wicked suggestions and deuilish deuise whereby he prouoketh many vnder the shewe of Gods word or bare name therof for that is the lambes cote which this wyely wolfe boroweth to maske in to be vnkind vnnaturall and with out all godly affection towards their departed frendes The which contrary corrupt seede of false doctrine we right well know came of the sayd aduersary because it was long after ouersowen learning further of Tertullian Id verum esse quodcunque primum id adulterinum quod posterius That to be true that was first taught and that to be false and forged which came latter CAP. XIIII 1 WHen the Apostolike writing can not be shewed it is but the poynt of an heretike to boast of Apostolike tradition So did the Valentinians although their heresie were newe when they were confuted by the Scriptures shrowed them selues vnder the name of traditions as we haue shewed before out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 2. And therfore it is but vayne bragging that you promise to seeke out any other fathers of our perswasion then the Apostles of Christ by whose holy writings we neuer refuse to be iudged what if any heretike haue affirmed some thing that is true is truth worse in an heretikes mouth The deuills them selues confessed christ Their confession was true their testimony was refused So if any heretike haue confessed the truth we may receiue the truth and yet reiect his testimony For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denyed by the deuill it is all one The high way that you prate of is a bye way for the Scripture is the onely high way to the truth with the guidance of Gods spirite And yet that way which you haue taken hath so many hills and holes woods and thickets that you haue rather flyen ouer it in a dreame and imagination
principle as certaine as the first That the spirite of God hath a meaning in the scriptures which is not to be sought out of the scriptures in the opinions of deceiuable men but onely in the scriptures where is nothing but the spirite of trueth These 2. commaundements serch the scriptures and trie the spirites teach how to attaine to certainety of trueth For the scriptures are not vnderstood but by the spirite and the spirites are not tryed but by the scriptures Therefore that the spirite maye declare his owne meaning one place of scripture must be expounded by an other All other ordinary meanes and healpes of wit learning knowledge of tongues diligeÌ„ce in hearing reading and praying are subordinate and seruing to this search and tryall And who so obserueth this serch and tryall most precisely shall come to the knowledge of the trueth most certainely And who so euer is negligent in this search and tryall though he haue otherwise neuer so many and excellent graces and giftes may easely be deceiued yea euen when he thinketh he followeth the authority of the scriptures I coulde alleage for confirmation of this truth the testimony of diuers of the auncient fathers which if they had alwayes followed that which some times they so highly commended they should not so lightly haue passed ouer some thinges and other thinges so slenderly haue mainteined But my thinkes the testimony of the Pope shoulde be a per se with all Papistes The Pope him selfe in his canon lawe for Cayphas some times doth prophecy hath allowed this to be the onely waye to expound the scriptures Affirming that no where else but euen out of the scriptures themselues the true sense of the scriptures is to be taken Ascribed to Clemens dist 37. cap. Relatum Lex Dei cum legitur non secundum propriam ingenij virtutem vel intelligentiam legatur vel doceatur Sunt enim multa verba in scripturis diuinis quae possunt trahi ad eum sensum quem sibi vnus quisque sparte praesumpserit sed non oportet non enim sensum extrinsecus alienuÌ„ extraneum debetis quaerere vt quoquo modo ipsum ex sâ—ripturarum authoritate confirmetis sed ex ipsis scripturis sensum capere veritatis oportet When the lawe of God is reade let it not be reade or tought after the force or vnderstanding of a mans owne witte For their be many wordes in the holy scriptures which maye be drawen to such sence as euery man of his owne heade shal presume to make but you may not doe so For you ought not to seeke forth without any forayne or strange sence that you may confirme it by any meanes by authority of the scriptures but you must take the sence of trueth out of the scriptures them selues And thus much for the true vnderstanding of the scriptures and now to your false superstition First I deny that any of the auncient fathers in Christ his time or scholers to his Apostles or within one or two hundreth yeares after Christ except one that had it of Montanus the heretike as he had more thinges beside in any one worde mainteined your cause for purgatory or prayers for the deade Secondly of them that mainteined prayers for the deade the most confessed they had it not out of the scriptures but of tradition of the Apostles and custome of the Church therefore they are not to be compared vnto vs in better vnderstaÌ„ding of the scriptures for that point which they denyed to be receiued of the scriptures Thirdly those of the auncient fathers that agreed with you in any parte of your assertion for none within foure hundreth yeares was wholy of your error notwithstanding many excellent giftes that they had yet mainteined other errors beside that and about that discented one from an other and sometime the same man from him selfe and that is worst of all from manifest trueth of the holy Scriptures Therefore neither is their erroneous interpretation in this matter to be receiued nor M. Allens wise iudgement of vs to be regarded An aunsvvere to such arguments as the heretikes doe frame of the holy scriptures not vvell vnderstanded against the practise of Gods Church in praying for the deade or the doctrine of Purgatory CAP. XVI 1 THerefore to stoppe their waye at euery turne and because they talke so fast of scripture full fayne woulde I heare what scriptures they haue that make either expressely agaynst purgatory and prayers for the deade or else by any one learned man in all the worlde was euer expounded for any such sense And loe now good reader what scriptures they alleage that can abâ—de nothing but scripture First out of Ecclesiastes The tree whether it fall to the south or the north it lyeth euer where it lighteth Then they alleage out of S. Matthews Gospell that there be two wayes one to bring to heauen and the other leading straight to hell And then out of the second to the Corinthians they bring in howe we must all stande before the iudgement seat of Christ there to receiue eche of vs according to our workes and life and that by other mens labour our state can not be ameÌ„ded Againe they allege this sentence of the Apocalypse Beati mortui c. blessed be the deade that dye in our Lorde for after that the spirite sayeth that they shall reste from trauells All which textes and the like of that sorte make no more against purgatory then they doe against hell or heauen excepte that as Anaxagoras the philosopher saide all thinges were in euery thinge so these diuines can finde euery texte of scripture to make for what purpose they liste and yet if the Catholikes alleage a numbre of scriptures and them with the minde and iudgement of the whole worlde that doubteth not but they proue that for which they be recited yet they set light by them and impudently with clamors beare men in hande that they haue no scriptures at all VVhich thinges as they smell of much arrogancie in all men so in these folke that so malâ—pertly controwle others where them selues haue no scripture at all it is vntolerable CAP. XVI 1 THis chapter is but pro forma tantum to make a shew of a confutation where neither the tenth parte of our arguments are rehearsed nor those that are named with any couller of reason and lest of all with authority of scriptures are confuted First he will allow vs but 4. textes of scripture because he will not take paines to wrest any more And those make nothing for vs except all thinges be in euery thinge as Anaxagoras said It should seeme M. Allen that you your selfe dreamed so with Anaxagoras else would you not finde purgatory in euery one of them which we saye is in none of them but rather excluded by them all But who can prescribe the deuill a measure in lying when he is disposed to lye we haue no scriptures at all the Catholikes