Selected quad for the lemma: tradition_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
tradition_n	church_n	judgement_n	scripture_n	1,546	5	5.9918	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19649	An aunswer to sixe reasons, that Thomas Pownde, Gentleman, and prisoner in the Marshalsey. at the commaundement of her Maiesties Commissioners, for causes Ecclesisasticall: required to be aunswered Because these reasons doo moue him to think, that controuersies and doubts in religion, may not be iudged by the Scriptures, but that the Scriptures must be iudged by the Catholique Church. ... Written by Robert Crovvley.	Crowley, Robert, 1518?-1588.; Pounde, Thomas, 1539-1616.; Tripp, Henry, d. 1612.	1581 (1581)	STC 6075; ESTC S109107	34,598	58

that doo vnfainedly professe that Religion that you hate doo vnfainedly looue you and pray for the opening of the eyes of your vnderstanding that you may see and feele and embrace your saluation in Christe and that being Englishmen or inhabiting within the English dominions you may know and acknowledge her Maiestie for your supreme Gouernor in all causes next and immediatly vnder Christe our onely vniuersall head Fare you well From my house at S. Gyles without Creplegate of London the. 6. of Ianuarie 1580. After the accoumpt of the Church of Englande and in the. 23. yeere of her Maiesties Reigne ⸪ Yours when you shall shew your selues to be true Christians and English men Robert Crovvley Clerk 7. September 1580. ¶ Sixe Reasons set downe to shew that it is no orderly way in cōtrouersies of faith to appeale to be tryed only by Scriptures as the absurde opinion of all the Sectaries is but the sentence definition of the Catholike Church by whome as by the Spowse of Christ alwayes inspired with the holy ghost the holy Scripture is to be iudged FIrst consider well these words of our Sauiour in sending vs to the Scriptures saying Searche the Scriptures for you thinke to haue eternall life in them And these are they that beare witnesse of me Marke well these wordes I say that the Scripture is but witnesse bearer to the trueth and not the Iudge to discerne of trueth for iudgement giuing belongeth not to the witnesse bearer although he be as a rule to leade and direct the Iudge in true iudgement But what if this witnesse should be currupted as no man will deny but it may yet this Iudge to whome the holy Ghost is promised will finde it and reforme it Vnderstād therfore my Reasons why of necessitie the Church must be Iudge of the Scriptures and take your Pen and confute them I pray you if you can 1. The first is because the written Text is mute and dumbe vttering nothing to vs from the Booke but only the wordes and not the sense wherein the lyfe as it were of the Scripture consisteth And what definitiue sentence can such a Iudge giue to ouer rule the conceyted minde of an opinatiue man which hath no euident meanes to pronounce any iudgement against him but onely to shewe him a dumbe signe in writing which a wrangler may conster styll to his owne vnderstanding against all the worlde 2 The second Reason is because the holy Scripture as S. Augustine sayth is very full of harde and déepe anysteries in so much that when Honoratus sayd to him as many vnlearned men say now a dayes that he vnderstood it well enough without helpe of any instructor Say you so sayth he you would not take vpon you to vnderstand such a Poet as Terence is well without a Maister and dare you rushe into the holy Scriptures which are so full of Diuine mysteries without a Maister and dare you rushe into the holy Scriptures which are so full of Diuine mysteries without a guide All Heresies sayth he come of nothing else Nisi dum scripturae bonae intelliguntur non bene But whyle the good Scriptures are not well vnderstoode Héerto also S. Peter in his second Epistle Cap. 3. beareth witnesse saying That many misunder stood S. Paule in many harde places peruersly to their owne perdition But then you will say the harde places may easely he vnderstoode by conference of other Scriptures Well admit a chyldish reason for a worde or two That because they might so be among the humble minded therfore they must néeds be so though men be neuer so peruerse Yet giue mée leaue to pose you then one Question farther to y e quick Howe is it possible to knowe by any conference of the Scriptures which is Canonicall Scripture and which is not certainely if any Infidell would deny the olde Testament as some Heretikes in time past haue done and I praye God there be not many Atheistes at this day in England which be farther gone yet then they Yea if such a one should deny all the newe Testament also we haue no sure Anckor holde against him but the Reuelation of God by tradition to his Church which is the pyllor and sure stay of trueth which S. Augustine well séeing thought he might be bolde to say with due reuerence to God and holie Scripture bothe I should not beleue the Gospell except the authoritie of y e Church did moue me thereunto meanyng that the tradition of the vniuersall Churche and the testimonie of all the people of God in whom the holie Ghoste dwelleth must iustly moue vs to credite that whiche their authoritie doth commaunde vs to giue credite vnto Therefore let any man beware of fliyng from the Churches Iudgement to the Scripture onely least the Scripture it self should vtterly bee denied as by some Atheistes in Englande as I heare saie is alreadie And then might suche Infidels laugh all Heretickes to scorne for robbyng them selues of their owne defence But now to returne to my purpose if conference of one Scripture with an other might giue light enough to all men How happeneth it that all Sects vsing that conference yet thei can neuer agrre in their opinions but diuers men and all vsing suche conference doe yet construe it diuersly The vttermoste shifte thei haue is this suche a weake one as it is that the Reader must giue hymself to prayer for the truthe to be reuealed vnto hym Wherein marke I praie you the iutollerable pride of arrogant Hypocrites that thei will first mistrust Gods reuelation of the truthe to his Vniaersall Churche for the whiche Christe himself hath prayed and promised to teache them all tr 〈…〉 moste presumptuously to come and 〈…〉 pt God to haue that truthe reuealed onely to them selues whiche beyng reuealed many hundreth yeares agone and defined in generall Counsell by all the holie Fathers where the holie Ghoste is alwaies present or at leaste by the holie Doctors in their writynges set doune yet thei will not beleeue it nor harken vnto it yet this is their course and so as thei saie forsoothe thei praie very hartely though fewe of them can wring out any teares in their praiers but yet with suche a faithe in the Lorde as their owne terme is that they dooe all verely beleeue the truthe is reuealed vnto them And yet perdie thei must needes be all deceiued as long as thei dwell in dissention and are not in errors onely but one contrarie to an other who now must be the Iudge to trie the spirites whether they be of God or no but onely the Churche Or els shall thei not bee tried at all but continuall permission for infinite Legions of liyng spirites to be still vndetected that thei maie seduce more and more 3 The third Reason is because S. Peter saieth plainly that no Scripture is to bee taken after any miuate interpretatiō for it was not vttered after the will and fantasie of

man but as holie men of God spake it inspired by the holy Ghost yet most contrary to this expresse rule euery priuate mā shall haue libertie to interprete it to his owne peruers will after a priuate interpretation otherwise then at first it was inspired to the holy men If euer man maie appeale from the Ecclesiasticall sence of the vniuersall Churche to the Text it self as he vnderstandeth it 4 The fourth Reason is becausé by appealyng onely to the Scripture you séeme to giue men libertie to denie all vnwritten verities which wee haue receiued of the Churche either by expresse definition in generall Counsaile or but by tradition And I beleeue at my firste na 〈…〉 of unwritten verities Maister Crowley and his 〈…〉 straight waie as though all suche were 〈…〉 to temper their follie I will not saie their pride a 〈…〉 that point I aske them all this question How thei proue the Trinitie of persones in the Vnitie of the substaunce in Godheade by the expresse Scriptures Or the two distinct natures in Christe and but one person Or God the Father to be Ingenitus Or the proceedyng of the holy Ghoste both from the Father and from the Sonne as from one Fountaine or the descendyng of Christ into Hell by plaine wordes of Scripture beyng therefore of many now a daies flatly deuyed Or the custome of Baptising of Infants seeyng the Scripture soundeth rather as though thei should bee taught first their faith before their were Baptized saiyng Goe and teathe all Nations Baptizyng them c. Or why we should kéepe the Sondaie now at all and not the Saterdaie rather whiche was the Iewes Sabothe daie that the Scripture speaketh of to be sanctified Although your Puritanes which goe to plough vpon all the Churches Holydaies seeme not yet to know the Sondaie for any of their makyng or why we should not abstaine now still like Iewes from strangled meates as the Apostels once decreed in the Acts and by no expresse Scripture againe abrogated Yea then why maie not any Hereticke denie al our thrée Créedes both the Apostles Créede the Nicen Creede as it is called the Creede of Athanasius seing neuer a one of these is written in Scripture expresly but all lefte vs by tradition onely vpon credite of the Churche Marke you not how these Bedlem Scripture men would shake all the foundations of our Christian faith by binding vs to beleue nothing but Scripture Do not these blinde guides thinke you leade us a trim daunce towarde infidelitie Thus muche of the fourth Reason 5 The fift is because that without a certaine Iudge for interpretatiō of Scripture absolutely this absurditie would followe y t God which is the Author of al perfectiō and disposeth euery thing in swete decent order had left his vniuersall Church in yearth in this confusion y t when soeuer any doubtfull question should arise vpō construction of his holy will there were no prouision at all ordained by God for deciding of such strifes and preseruation of concord among his people and then certainly the kingdome of Gods Churche were not so well prouided for in their gouernment as euery ciuill kindome is by pollicie of carnall men amōgst whom none almost are so barbarous but that thei haue Counsellers for gouernment of their state Iudges for expounding executing of their lawes aswell as lawes written or els it were ridiculus would not he be counted a very wise man thinke you in one of our Parliamentes whiche should steppe vp like a graue Burgesse and perswade all his fellowes that for asmuche as thei had a noble and an auncient Lawe written vnto them the Realme should haue no longer neede henceforthe of any Prince nor any Rulers nor Peeres nor Iudges nor Iustices nor ciuill Magistrates but euery man vppon his worde for the warrant would bee content to gouerne hym self orderly by the lawe written whiche as his wisedome thinkes is plaine enough And truely no wiser be thei but muche more to bee laughed to scorne whiche will haue the Scripture to bee the onely Iudge for euery man to appeale vnto and refuse all authoritie of the Churche in expoundyng thereof for who knoweth not that the Arrian Heretickes brought fortie places of Scripture for their horrible Heresie more then the Catholikes had against theim but all falsely vnderstoode whiche when it is so misunderstoode and misapplied then S. Augustine calleth it the Heretickes howe wherewith they shoote out their owne venemous arrowes And Vincent Lir. saieth it is then the Sheepes cloathyng whiche the Wolfe doeth shroude hym self in because that when a simple bodie feeleth the softnesse as it were of his fliece he should not mistrust the Tyrannie of his teethe That is to saie of his false construction of Scripture wherwith he would deuour his saule So did the Deuill hymself alleadge Scripture vnto Christ and as oft as any Heretikes aleadge Scripture to vs against the Catholike faith So oft saieth Vincentius we maie be out of doubt the Deuill doeth speake vnto vs by their mouthes and saieth vnto vs euen as he saied vnto Christ Si filius deies mitte te deorsum as much to saie If thou wile bee the sonne of God and professor of his holy Gospell cast thy self doune from the high authoritie and tradition of this Catholike Churche whom if wee aske againe why we should so doe then saieth Vincentius he commeth out with Scriptum est enim because it is written saieth he in the holie booke from thence thou must learne a newe lesson of me how to be a right Christian man To whom we must saie then Vade Satan non tentabis c. Auaunt Sathan c. and that with greate feruencie of faith for more perillous is the temption of such a flatteryng Serpent saieth S. Augustine then the roaryng of an angrie Lyon because the one wee flee from with feare but the other with entising maie come the nerer to sting vs. 6 The sixt reason most waightie of all is this because if you will refuse the authoritie of the Churches absolute iudgement vppon the Scriptures true cense you shall seeme plainly to denie the holy Ghoste to be the Spirite of truthe whiche vppon the Apostles and all the faithfull was sent doune with visible signes and with his Church is promised to remaine vnto the worldes ende by these wordes of our Sauiour I will aske my Father and he shall send you an other comforter to tarie with you for euer the spirite of truth And a little after thus The holy Ghoste the comforter whom my Father will sende in my name shall teache you all truthe Loe the Church is the surest Iudge and none shure but the Churche for all men in doubtes of Scripture because it hath a promise that it shall neuer erre in iudgement whiche is notably confirmed by the Prophet Esay saiyng This is my couenaunt with them saieth our Lorde my spirite whiche is in thee and my worde which I

expectantes satagite immaculati inuiolati ei inueniri in pace domini nostri longanimitatem salutem arbitremini sicut charissimus frater noster Paulus secundum datam sibi sapientiam scripsit vobis sicut in omnibus epistolis loquens in eis de hijs in quibus sunt quaedam difficilia intellectu quae indocti instabiles deprauant sicut caeteras scripturas ad suam ipsorum perditionem And I thinke that you your selfe would translate them into Englishe thus Wherefore dearely beloued waityng for these thinges giue your endeuour to be founde vnto hym in peace beeyng without spot and vndefiled and thinke that the long sufferyng of our Lorde is saluation euen as our moste deare brother Paule according to the wisedom that is giuen vnto him hath written to you euen as in euery Epistle speakyng in them of those thinges amongst whiche are some thinges that are harde to be vnderstanded whiche vnlearned and vnstable menne doe depraue euen as thei doe other Scriptures to their owne destruction I trust you doe see now that we neede not that reason whiche you doe call childishe and is not indeepe so childishe but that it hath in all ages been and is still allowed amongst the learned for the beste rule in vnderstandyng of places of the Scripture wherein is any difficultie But now you doe begge or rather take leaue to pose vs one question furder to the quicke And thus you saie How is it possible to knowe by any conference of the Scriptures which is Canonicall Scripture and which is not c. You seeme to bee perswaded that this question toucheth to the quicke in deede For you affirme plainly that if any Infidell Hereticke or Arbeist shall denie any parte of the olde or newe Testament or the whole olde and new Testament as in tymes past some haue doen. c. We haue no Ankor holde against such but onely the Reuelation of God to the Churche by Tradition which Churche is the piller and sure staie of truth c. I confesse that the Church is the Piller and sure staie of truthe as Sainct Paule writeth But that this truth is reuealed to the Churche by Tradition as you write that I denie For God hath taught and doth still teach the truthe to his Churche by the worde of truth and not by Reuelation or Tradition And that worde of truthe is sufficient and needeth not that any thyng should bee added to it either by Reuelation or by Tradition Yea there is an horrible cursse pronounced against all such as shall adde any thyng to in The true Catholique Churche is in deede the Piller and sure staie whereon that truthe that is taught by the worde of truthe doeth staie For that worde of truthe is the voyce of her Sheepeheard and she delighteth in hearyng that voyce but the voyce of a straunger she can not abyde to heare The truthe taught by the voyce of her Sheepehearde she laieth vp in her harte and all her delight is to lette men see it in her life and conuersation that séeing her good lyfe they may be occasioned therby to glorifie her spouse Christe and his and her heauenly Father This is that authoritie that S. Austine sayth moued him to beléeue the Gospell And this authoritie caused him to write thus against that Epistle of Manichaeus which the Maniches called theyr foundation Ego veró Euangelio non crederem nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commoueret authoritas Surely I would not beléeue the Gospell except the authoritie of the Church dyd mooue me thereto Not many lines before those words S. Austine sayth thus to the Maniches Apud vos vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat c. That is Amongst you where no part of that thing is which might allure and holde me there soūdeth only a promising of the trueth which vndoubtedly if it be shewed foorth so manifestly that it may not be doubted of it is to be preferred before all those thinges that doo holde me in the Church I pray you Maister Pownde ponder well these wordes of Austine and be not afrayde with Austine to yéelde to the manifest trueth when it shall be manifested to you onely because it lacketh the consent of Peoples and Nations the authoritie of Myracles the nourishment of hope the increase of looue the establishment of Antiquitie the holde from Peters seate the succession of Priests and the name of Catholique For S. Augustine sayth That the manifest trueth must be preferred before all these But if you wyll marke it well you shall finde that the trueth which we holde and teach and would wishe you and all your sort to embrace dooth not lacke the chéefest of those thinges that mooued S. Austine first to embrace it For it is the same that first gotte credite by those Myracles that were wrought by Christe and his Apostles It was and is styll nourished by hope It was and is styll increased by looue it is also confirmed by that seate which you call Peters and hath the succession of Priests although not in such sort as you allowe of And last of all it hath the right name of Catholique Thus I hope you doo now sée that you haue not rightly applied eyther the words of Paule or of Austine mynding thereby to prooue that the Church of Roome being such a Church as nowe it sheweth it selfe to be is the Piller of trueth and that Catholique Church whereunto all Christians should and must of necessitie cleaue if they wyll be saued by Christe Your conclusion wherein you aduise all men to beware of fléeing from the Church to the iudgement of the Scriptures onely c. Was not so aduisedly made as were séemely to be made by one that were so well séen in the writings of y e Fathers as you would séeme to be For as I thinke yea I am perswaded that I may safely affirme there is not one of the auncient Fathers of your minde in that poynt Saint Austine in his Epistle fortie and eight written to Vincentius sayth thus Noli ergò frater contra diuina tam multa tam clara tam indubitata testimonia c. Doo not therefore Brother shewe thy selfe wylling to gather out of the wrytinges of Bishoppes reproches against so heauenly so many so cleare and so vndoubted testimonies whether the same Bishops be on our side as Hillarius or of the vnitie it selfe before the faction of Donatus was separated from it as Cyprian and Agripinus First for that that kinde of writing must be distinguished from the authoritie of the Canon for they are not so read that testimonie should be taken out of them that it might not be lawfull for any man to be of a minde contrarie thereto if perhappes they shall in any place be of other minde then the trueth requireth For we are of that number that may not disdayne to take euen vnto our selfe this saying of the Apostle And if ye be of an

It was the pleasure of God to set in the scriptures a sure Bulwarke against deceytfull errours against which Scriptures no man that is any way wylling to séeme to be a Christian dare be bolde to speake As golde by the toutch stone so are the spirites tryed by the Scripture And euerie one that is skilfull in the scriptures that is that can by conferring of one scripture with an other finde out the meaning of the holy ghost in the scriptures may be as bolde to vse the scripture in the tryall of spirites as the Goldsmith may be to vse the toutch stone in the tryall of mettalles And if ye thinke that the conference of one Scripture with an other be not the surest way to attaine to the true meaning of the Scriptures looke Saint Austine De Doctrina Christiana Lib. 3. Cap. 26. And thus much for aunswer to your second Reason which I haue called False The third Reason THe thirde Reason that mooueth you to thinke that the Scriptures are to be iudged by the Church is for that S. Peter hath written That no Scripture is to be taken after any priuate interpretation c. This Reason I haue called Foolishe for that foolishly you doo rushe into the Epistle of Saint Peter and report his wordes otherwise then he wrote them and then you your selfe doo make a priuate interpretation of them contrarie to the decrée made in the Councell of Trent whereof you would séeme to make greatest accoumpt The words of Saint Peter as they doo stande in that translation that the Coūcell of Trent hath allowed are these Hoc primùm intelligentes quód omnis prophaetia scripturae propria interpretatione non fit Vnderstanding this thing first that no prophesie of the scripture is made by priuate interpretation I meruayle howe you being such a Catholique as you professe to be durst set downe Peters wordes otherwise then you finde them in that translation For I am sure you are not ignoraunt of the penaltie that the Councell hath appointed for such doinges But this is not all your misdemeanour in this behalfe For you make a priuate Interpretation contrarie bothe to the decrée and also to this thyrde Reason of yours For to make a priuate interpretation is to make such a one as differeth from the auncient wryters and is not allowed of the Church But where can you shewe me any auncient writer that hath interpreted those wordes of Peter as you doo Saint Austine medleth not with them No more dooth S. Ierome S. Ambrose S. Gregorie nor Chrysostome nor any other of that tyme that I haue séene or can heare of Nicholaus Lyranus writing vpon these wordes of S. Peter sayth that the meaning of S. Peter was to teach that no propheticall Scripture hath begynning in or dooth spring out of humane sense or mannes meaning For thus he wryteth Propria interpretatione non fit id est non fit sensu humano ideo subditur Non enim voluntate humana allata est aliquando prophetia sed spiritu sancto inspirati c. It is not made sayth he by any mans owne interpretatiō that is to say it is not made by humane sense and therefore this saying is set immediatly after Prophecie hath not at any tyme been brought in by mans wyll but men inspired with the holy Ghost c. I thinke your Fathers of the Councell of Trent will allowe Lyranus for a Catholique wryter wherefore I thinke also that they wyll not dispense with you for dissenting from him in the interpreting of S. Peters wordes But nowe if ye wyll giue me leaue I wyll tell you what I thinke to be the meaning of S. Peter in these words First I thinke that you doo know that S. Peter wrote in Greeke And then you must knowe that the wordes which in the allowed translation are Priuata interpretatione are in the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And they that haue any skyll in the Greeke tongue will tell you that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dooth signifie Impulsus as well as Interpretatio And may we not translate the wordes of S. Peter thus Omnis prophetica scriptura non fit proprij impulsus Euerie propheticall Scripture is not made of or by priuate or proper impulsion Or to translate it more English lyke No propheticall Scripture is made of or by priuate or proper impulsion It séemeth to me that bothe the wordes that goe before and also the wordes that followe doo enforce this to be the meaning of Saint Peter For he sayth thus We haue a firme and sure propheticall spéeche and you doo well in that you doo giue good héede thereto as vnto a Candle that appeareth in a darke place vntyl the day may waxe cleare and the day starre may aryse in your heartes But yet so that you doo first knowe that no propheticall Scripture is made by priuate or proper impulsion For prophesie hath not at any tyme bene brought vnto vs by the wyll of men but the holy men of God haue spoken as by the spirite of God they haue bene driuen or vehementlie mooued to speake Let your fréendes consider of this and tell you whether this may be allowed for Catholique or not I do● not write this as one that doo not thinke that saying of yours No Scripture is to be taken after any priuate interpretation to be true or as one that dooth allowe the rashnesse of such as wyll rushe into the Scriptures without such reuerance as is séemely and take vppon them to make interpretations after their owne fantasies I know that all that we can doo and all the helpes that we can haue are lyttle enough and therefore I thinke it méete for all men to follow the rules that S. Austine prescribeth writing De Doctrina Christiana And thus much may suffise to be sayde to your thirde Reason which by good Reason and for iust cause as I thinke I haue called Foolishe The fowrth Reason YOur fowrth Reason is for that by appealing to the Scripture we seeme as you say to giue men lybertie to denie all vnwritten verities which we haue receyued of the Church eyther by expresse definition in generall Councell or but by tradition c. And first you delyght your selfe with a frumpe at Crowley and his fellowes that wil laugh as you say so soone as they heare of vnwritten verities And it séemeth that you perswade your selfe that you haue done it verie finely And therfore I haue named this Reason of yours Fātasticall But yet a little to temper our follie you will not say our pride you will aske vs how we prooue the Trinity of persons and the vnitie of substaunce in the Godhead by expresse Scriptures c. Nine verities we must prooue by Scriptures which are not as you say written in the Canonicall Scriptures Well to staie your wisdome I wyll by Gods mercifull assistance doo what may be done in this matter And I hope to prooue as many of them as be