Selected quad for the lemma: tradition_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
tradition_n	church_n	find_v	scripture_n	3,607	5	6.0436	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20303	A sparing restraint, of many lauishe vntruthes, which M. Doctor Harding do the chalenge, in the first article of my Lorde of Sarisburies replie. By Edward Dering student in Diuinitie. With an answere vnto that long, and vncourteous epistle, entituled to M. Juel, and set before M. Hardings Reioinder	Dering, Edward, 1540?-1576.	1568 (1568)	STC 6725; ESTC S108150	240,683	364

cause why he was conuerted or rather peruerted And in that he is not constant as he was before in his Religion the grace of God saith he and the study of more matures yeares did instruct me otherwise This cause doth sufficiently confute it selfe For Maister Harding chaunged his Religion in seuen dayes in which he had not many yeares to study ▪ nor yet quiet time to deliberate Héere followeth a little iesting at the name of Ministers and vngodly Metaphores to the defacing of their preaching all not woorth the aunswere And in déede who so would scoure away all that froth from his writinges should leaue him in most places nothing but white paper Harding ¶ What I should haue done and how farre I should haue gone in case Gods prouidence had not changed that state he sawe to whom nothing is vnsene And perhaps in continuance of time I should haue ioined further with you except his speciall grace had called me backe and seuered me from you What soeuer in those dayes I thought or said amisse our Lorde forget and forgeue Verye like it is had not the condition of that time bene altered that I shoulde haue thought and said worse then I did and haue bene carried away further But nowe I see what great cause I haue to reioyce and thank God who vsed the change of the time as an occasion and meane whereby to chaunge me vnto the better For whiles I feared to suffer that I would not by new condition of the time I was compelled to seeke the truth which before I knew not and willingly to holde that which before I refused Dering In this paragraphe before Maister Harding saith that the grace of God more mature yeares did better instruct him But he had little hope to finde many yeares in seuen dayes therfore now he saith that Gods especial grace the change of the Prince did change him also So y t whether of both did helpe many yeares in a weeke or the change of a Prince he hath called God to witnes to a lye But let it be the change of the time did change Maister Harding yet let him not ascribe it vnto God which is his owne euill doing Surely for the Minister to turne sodenly with the worlde it is an vnwéented kinde of calling and such as the holy Ghost hathe left none in example But you defend your selfe with S. Aug. saying True it is a man may be brought vnto Christ through feare of punishment else why serueth authority Yet as this liked you in S. Aug. to know it might be done so may it please you also in y e same Epistle to know how it is done S August saith ac sic ista cogitatione docibiles facti non in calumnijs et fabulis humanis sed in diuinis libris promissam per omnes gentes inuenirent eccleziam that by this due consideration of earthlye punishment we being made apt for instruction not in mens wranglinges and deuyses but in the heauenly bookes we shoulde finde the church promysed through all the world This péece Maister Harding hath concealed For in his turn he did not séeke for the church in Gods Scriptures but in mens tradicions Therfore he is little helped by S. Augustine Nay he doth rather shew y e cause why Maister Harding is now so obdurate quam multos saith he obduratae consuetudinis graue vinculū colligabat how many hath the heauy yoake of olde custome tyed togither that it might be fulfilled in them the froward seruant shall not be amended with the woorde of God so that he not clayming his turne by the aduertisement of the scriptures but cleauyng fast vnto olde custome hath deliuered him selfe from thys helpe of S. Augustine Héere he maketh a long discourse of his priuate doings impertinent to his priuate Masse which I can not meddle with bicause I know them not Harding ¶ If I may be beleued telling that of my selfe which I my self God know best this is the truth My errour was of ignoraunce not of malice My vnderstanding was obscured my will was not of selfe purpose peruerted Wherin I offended it was not so much through malice of will as through want of skill I did not with animositie as S. Augustine calleth it mainteine what lyked my priuate choise but ignorauntly I receiued what guilefully the condition of the time obtruded Dering Here M. Harding vpon better aduise assigneth yet agayne the third cause of hys turning He hath nowe forsaken better instruction by mature yeares he taketh holde no more of the chaunge of the Prince but for his more commendation saith he was turned by prayer I trow by saying our Ladies Mattines this cause bicause it is the best cause he setteth it out with his best maner of writing and with the dissolute figure sometyme speaking ryme sometyme hauing no reason he concludeth this third cause that is héere alleadged But what néedeth this any long aunswer If his errour wer ignorance how got he so spéedy knowledge If his vnderstāding wer obscured how was it so quickly lightned What bookes red he who was his teacher Hath he found so many miracles for his priuate Masse that he woulde haue vs wéene he was turned by a Miracle Yet he saith it soothly that his offence was not so muche through malice of wyll as through want of skyll Now verily M. Harding this like falling figure falleth in this place quite out of order This other repetition about the sayings of our sauiour Christ séeke and you shall finde c. hath preatie turning in wordes but M. Harding in hys lyfe hath turned himselfe quite from them Hardyng ¶ That I proceded no farther in errour it was the goodnes of God who with his mercifull hand stayde me backe from running to the extremitie that you be run vnto Dering Nowe M. Harding can shewe no good cause of his falling awaye in to the power of darknesse it liketh him to gesse what brought him so farre into the kingdome of light For séeing by his hobs and rouers his hart was not vpright toward God he can not iudge why he was estemed such a preacher of his Gospell But this gessing at his going forwarde is as vayne as the causes of his returne haue bene found vnconstant Satan can turne him selfe in to an Angell of light to make his Ministers thinke they doe God good seruice The idolatrous Israelites would séeme to séeke God daylye euen as a nation that did righteously and had not forsaken the statutes of their God So M. Harding would faine haue his turning for his more humilitie and hys suddaine reuolting for his further well doing But what néedeth so busie searche in so playne a matter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his own hobbing and double dealing made God giue him ouer to his old idolatries out of which before of his frée mercie he had drawen him So let M. Harding séeke no farther cause His iniquities haue seperated betwene him and his

is méere to vnderstand but that we vnderstand according to sobrietie as God hath delt to euerye one the measure of fayth and we prophesie according to the proportion thereof sith the Scripture may not be interpreted by other spirit then it hath bene deliuered For as no man knoweth the things of a man saue the spirit of man which is within him euen so the things of God no man knoweth saue onely the spirit of God As for the exposition of the holy Fathers and Doctours the same holy Fathers and Doctours them selues haue taught vs soberly and with reuerence to leaue them if in any wise they thinke other then the truth reporteth Neither yet of counsails haue we any fore iudged sentēce to be led by the counsel of Nice or Areminum but confer matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason according to the scriptures And vppon this ground we more esteme one laye man bringing scripture for his defence than a whole assemblie without the like assuraunce For were it not extreme madnesse vpon the credit of men to goe carelesse in the mire we knowe not whether sith the thinges are written whereby we may liue Euen as our sauiour Christ gaue aunswere to him that sought life referring him to the scriptures and asking what he read so we vpon those scriptures haue buylded vp our church wherin we haue rather chosen to be dore kéepers than to dwell in the prowd palaces of vngodlie buildings But here M. Harding crieth out for the Apostles constitutions and with rumours and heresies deceitful traditions bringeth battred weapons against our Church walles But alas infelix puer atque impar congressus Achilli O vnhappie child and vnméete match for Achilles This ordinaunce is but quilles these pellets are but paper this powder is but winde and all these engines are but rotten wood Thanks be to God that hath made vs our dwelling places and indewed vs with hope that shall not be confounded We haue left to walke in their slipperie wayes we haue left of to go after them in their vnfruitfull iourneis we haue left of our gaping so long after flyes would God Maister Harding you would so tourne from your follie but you are drounken though not with wine and you stagger though not with strong drinke for the Lord hath couered you with a spirit of slumber and hath shut vp your eyes Concerning traditions I saye breifly such turning of deuises shalbe estemed as the potters claie yet meane I not this of all but of popish traditions of forbidding mariage commaunding to abstaine from meates which S. Paule sayth is the doctrine of Deuills of lying Legendes which are the tokens of Antichrist of massing garments which for all new gloses muste néedes signifie the loking for of a new Messias To be short of all such traditions rites worshippings as at this time set forth the superstition of this romish seruice concluding this place with S. Paul Phil. 4. what so euer things are true what so euer things are honest what so euer things are iust what so euer things are pure what so euer things pertaine to loue ▪ what so euer things are of good report if there be any vertue or if there be any prayse thinke on those things which you both learned receiued and heard sene in me those things doe and the God of peace shalbe with you Nowe he that can bring most aūtient profe what these traditions were it is best reason he should be beleued Speake now for your churche Maister Harding and if you winne for my part I will yeld Speake out therefore alowd and tel vs your witnesse names Ignatius Martialis Abdias Hippolitus Amphilochius Leontius Dyonitius Olde witnesses sure euen moulded with their manie yeares yet such is your fortune euen these are to yong Call for your Clemens the Appostles felow yet he will not serue Ther is one commeth aganist them longer of continuance more trauailed in the world yet not worne with his yeares nor w●ried with his labour he is as good as Moyses his eyes are not dimmed nor his naturall force abated he is like vnto Caleb as strong now as when his Moyses first sent him as strong as he was then euen so strong is he now for warre or gouernment a companion of S. Paules iourneis whose prayse is in the Gospell thoroughout all Churches who saluted the Collossians who onelye was with Paule at Rome the .xiii. yeare of the raygne of Nero though you say Peter was then Bishop an excellent Phisition and one that can cure the very hardnes of your hart If you care not for hys commendacions yet regarde his name I doe meane S. Luke the holy Euangelist Let vs stande to his iudgement what were these traditions These traditions sayth he are the Gospell and the Actes which I wrote to Theophilus For these are his very woordes It séemed good also to me most noble Theophilus as soone as I had searched out perfitlye all things from the beginning to wryte vnto you thereof from point to point All these things thus exactly written he receiued onely of his Maister Paule And therfore as it is thought the same Apostle speaking of S. Lukes writing calleth it his owne Gospell So that what so euer Luke reporteth not written by S. Paule it is Paules preaching and that is his tradition yea euen from poynt to poynt O maister Harding you thinke not reuerently of the spirite of God if you can imagine that S. Luke after such a promise vnto Theophilus pretermitted anye thing that séemed necessarie there is nothing sufficient if this be not sufficient And yet there is an other witnesse more auncient then Luke and yet more fresh then all your withered Doctours and that is S. Paule him selfe who in the .xv. to the Romaines as maye well be gathered saith that he wrote vnto them that same that he preached Now sith we haue so sufficient warrants call vs not into law for reiecting your dreamings but acknowledge we say truly in deniyng that Churche whose faith you professe to be the catholike Churche For a briefe aunswere to your order of Bishops I say it is a token that maye faile in the Churche or else was there no Church from the death of Christ till S. Peter was a bishop and so like in all vacations of Popes be they long or short The church must be tried by the woord of God Let Augustine be the Iudge Epist. 166. and Chrisostome vpon Mathew hom 49. Now for the better discharge of Luther and Zuinglius which in Gods cause haue bene Symeon and Leui to reuēge the adulteries of Sichem I wyll laye foorth your argument and make it no woorse then it is S. Augustine saith if the order of Bishops may prooue the Church there was neuer yet Bishop of Rome a Donatist ergo saith maister Harding ther must néedes be an open succession of Bishops Let who wyll be

and hys brother yet he would néedes be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So M. Harding wyll say néedes he is modest but his woord is no warrant Concerning M. Iuell whether his greatest grace be in scoffing I maruaile that he now doth aske the question Doth not M. Rastall his owne dearlyng confesse he hath a rare gift in writing Though his aucthoritie be otherwise very light yet against M. Harding it is very weightie And why will not M. Harding confesse as much Is he not as well learned as M. Rastall Yes sure but malitia mutauit intellectum malice hath chaunged his vnderstanding Hardyng ¶ If ye seeke to be reuenged on me for that I haue bene so bold as to aunswere your vaine Chalenge and by this Reioynder to confute part of your colourable Reply either hold your peace or speake so as you be not foūd a lyer if you can For truely by your euill speaking of me you shal but encrease the heape of my felicitie c. Dering Maister Harding would haue the world to thinke we are offended with his writing And in déede we are so and take it as a scourge of God to kéepe vs in humilitie and a manacing against our sinful liues that as oft as we se their bookes we should repent vs of the idolatries wherein we haue beene drowned But he in his impiety runneth desperatly forward and appealeth vnto Gods iudgement with such securitye as appeareth as Flauinius at Thrasimenus or Varro at Cannae went to méete with Hannibal Well may I vse this similitude sith all his doings are nothing else but gentillitie Maister Harding doth accuse vs of euill speaking before we offēd him Where he saith he is sure he standeth vpon a sure groūd let him take héede he be not wise in his own conceit Not euery one that saith Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdome of heauen but he that doth the will of God They are not all true worshippers that go vp to Ierusalem but suche onely as woorship in spirite and veritie The Iewes with as great a confidence sayde they had one Father which was God but Christ aunswered they were of their father the Deuil Saint Paule speaketh of the wicked that gloried so of God but hée sayth by such meanes the true God is dishonored The Scribes and the Pharises bragged muche of Moyses but Christ sayd the same Moyses should be their accuser All Israel dyd euer boast they were the children but yet onely in Isaac shal the séede be called Euen so these braggings of Christ séeing he followeth not his Testament shall be his owne confusion But by like he feared this that here I do aunswere and therfore with a vaine occupacion he thought best to preuent it and make a false clayme him selfe to that sayinge of Christ. And to proue it doth alleadge that weary argument of their Romish church which bicause it is so oft alleadged it shall not be amisse to speake somwhat of it to way a litle the difference of the two Churches The Churche of Christ is not bounde to any mans traditions it is not tyed to any certaine place the som● hath made vs frée and therfore we are frée in déede Neither in Ierusalem nor in this hill the true worshippers doo worship but in spirite and veritye But the Church of Rome doeth hang vpon olde rotten postes they obserue monethes and dayes that they maye be made frée they runne into cloisters and monckery for to worship and serue God The Church of Christ is not inclosed in any certain cuntry the Apostels are gone into al the world to preach the Gospell who soeuer doth beleue and is baptised shalbe saued But the church of Rome doth condemne them that goe one foote from hir she pronounceth them accursed that wil not drinke of hir adulteries and without hir she saith ther is no helth The Church of Christ wil not heare a strangers voice she will not beleue an angell from heauen that shall preach any other doctrine then Christ hath deliuered the scripture is the rule of hir whole religiō The church of Rome doth harken after vnwritten verities she giueth credit vnto dreames and visions she saith the Scriptures maye be drawen into diuers senses and will not allowe them but after hir fansied interpretations The church of Christ is buylt vpon the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Christ him selfe being the heade corner stone she doth receiue with méekenesse the woorde that is ingraffed in hir and doth confesse that it can saue our soules The church of Rome is buylt vppon mens deuises and for insufficiencye of the word adioyneth pilgrimages and pardons sacrifices for quick and dead Masses and purgatoryes Inuocation of Saints worshipping of Images and a thousand such trumperies and will not confesse that all is written which is necessary to saluation The Church of Christ doth acknowledge that by Christ alone she is saued by Christ alone she is deliuered from hir vaine conuersation and from the bondage of sin not by the woorks of righteousnes which she had done but according to his mercy which hath saued hir But the church of Rome maketh merits of hir own hath inuented wor●es of supererogation hath great confidence in Bulles Reliques Indulgences and salutations of the Pope The church of Christ is the communion of Saints the society and the felowship of these that walke in righteousnes But the church of Rome is a den of théeues her hye Priestes are sorcerers coniurers necromancers murderers vnchast adulterers Sodomits church robbers and such like infamous creatures as is euident by Platina Be●no and all other that haue written their liues The church of Christ doth vse the keies aright as she hath receiued them she pardoneth the penitent bindeth vp the sinnes of the disobedient and as she frely hath receiued so frelye she bestoweth them The church of Rome doth binde and lose at aduentures sendeth pardons to persons that she neuer sawe and bicause she hath not receiued fréely she selleth vnreasonable deare and hath made men paye for their sinnes an hundred thousand ounces of golde To conclude the church of Christ is the members of Christ the bodye of one head of which heade she hath receiued hir saluatiō bicause he hath purchased hir with his blood The church of Rome is the body of Antichrist the members of an Idolatrous harlot that hath gone a whorehunting after diuers louers Therfore the church of Rome is not the church of Christ. And as this church of Rome is in déede the synagogue of the Deuill so she hath not so much as the marks of Christes congregation The right vse of the sacraments which is the badge of Christs church and the reading of scriptures wherby hir steppes are lightened are as farre out of Peters church in Rome now as in the tyme of paganisme ther were out of the capitol as it shall appeare vpon further discussion First if they haue the

doth not direct your goyngs and therefore you make suche often reaches at hatred What preiudice should Maister Iuell bring vnto your cause which of it selfe is weake and of all Godly men forsaken What harme vnto your person whose returne should be his exceding ioye and whose obstinacy is the encrease of his commendations Bicause say you in the person of an other he putteth you in remembrance from whence you be fallen Why M. Harding are you offended to heare of your euyll doyng Uerilye the wise man sayth He that refuseth instruction despyseth his own soule But what speaketh this person whom you meane vnto M. Harding not long since c. O custome of euill speaking what a pleasure doost thou bring vnto the euill disposed person We haue hearde often of Maister Iuells rai●inges and scoffings euery leafe of his vncourteous dealing a long common place of his bitter kinde of writing After so much a doo seing there will be required some proofe he séeketh busylye and when he can finde none he maketh the greatest leape though there be many very wyde that is in the reioinder euen out of this preface quite ouer the Replie in to the conclusion and there he hath found a poore man which asketh a question which hath set him in these fiery passions what is there in such manner dealing but either singular impudēce or extreme foly Beare yet with him good Reader Barre him of these leapings and all his pastime is done But let vs heare what Maister Harding can aunswere to this poore man Thus Maister Iuell maketh him speake vnto Maister Harding Not long since you taught them of our side the Gospell euen in like sorte and fourme as it is tought now Here Maister Harding bicause he can make no good aunswere thinketh it not amisse to stop this pore mans mouth with a litle sophestrie You taught vs sayth this poore man the Gospell By this saith Maister Harding you doo vs to wéete what your gospell is and wherin it consisteth Blame not this poore man though he can say no more I haue béen a scholar almost this twentye yeares and yet I can not sée what this aunswere meaneth They must be L●nces eyes and such as can looke through milstones that can sée this conclusion very déepe cogitations must go so far into sentences and a man had néede of a warme nightcap that should folow them But seyng we can get no better aunswer the poore mans saying shall stande still for true and Maister Hardings obscure gatherings shall verifie the cōmon saying that it is better to saye nothing then to holde ones peace In the ende Maister Harding denieth that he euer spake these woordes wherby he doth empayre his credit in all other matters Let the Christian reader for his contentation when time and occasion may serue enquire of any that then liued in Ox●orde This simple way may not countervaile so many witnesses Hardyng ¶ To answere to the matter simply and truly as before God I will not here for my better excuse accuse the will of the Prince in whose dayes I was brought vp in learning the ernest endeuour of the Gouernours then being to satisfie his desires the crueltye of the lawes the yeelding of all in generall except a very fewe the great silence of preachers that then durst not teach necessaries the common ignorance of men Omitting● all these which I might bring for some part of excuse I am content for truthes sake freely to accuse my selfe In certaine points I was deceiued I confesse by Caluin Melancthon and a few others as you by them and sundrye others are nowe deceiued in many Dering Now he commeth to the simple and true aunswere for hys turning but he turneth so many members in one sentence that he turneth all sense quite out of the periode Perhappes he thinketh he speakes to the poore man againe therefore he speaketh in riddles Or if it bee not so the truth I trowe breaketh out And againe he accuseth the iniquitie of those dayes but his darke hart cannot abide the light straight he starteth backe againe and is content to take the fault vnto him selfe bicause all other excuses are vayne and vngodlye And as well as he can in so great a storme he runneth vnder the couering of S. Augustines auctoritie but it may not helpe him sithe their turnings are not like Saint Augustine turned from traditions vnto scripture but he turneth from the scripture vnto traditions Againe S. Augustine turned from the vayne trust that he had in man vnto the sure confidence that is fixed in Christ. But he is slidden away euen from Christ to sée how farre men haue established hys aucthoritie This is true as his own conscience doth iudge and hys writings doe testifie when vnder the name of the Churche he g●eth from the woord of God Therefore is his turning neyther modestie nor repentance but a shamelesse falling away and an obstinate forsaking of God God giue him grace herein to iudge him selfe that in the day of wrath he be not iudged of the Lord. Harding ¶ Now as to confesse this much truth requireth so to acknowledge your false reportes wisdome forbiddeth Them would I haue also not let to cōfesse if I wist God were delited with our lies Wher then you say I taught your Gospell euen in like sorte and forme in al respects as it is taught now that I deny vtterly In dede I hobde and roued sometimes but your pricks I euer tooke to be to farre for me to shoote at Neither trulye coulde I see the marke that you M. Iuell and suche as you are shot at it was so farre of and therefore I stoode out and shot smaller game Dering Now after this confession made you go as you say from the truth to your wisdome and tel vs in what sorte you preached the Gospell You say you hobde and roued but you neuer shot at any certaine marke Why were you one of Baals prophets that haulted on both sides that woulde serue both God and Mammon too That eate meate with the Gentiles and yet dissemble it before the Iewes The waueryng is vnconstant in all his wayes and bicause thou art neyther hoate nor colde I will spue thée out of my mouth sayth the Lord This hobbing was the cause that you fell agayne to your vomit And this rouing euer since made your shooting vncertaine You could not sée the marke that M. Iuell shootes at the vale of colde deuotion was before your eyes You looked euen now like an Eagle in the poore mans question But nowe you haue oyled your blere eyes that you can not sée Christ. God lighten your eyes that you sléepe not styll in death You stoode without you say and shot smaller game in déede you shot such game as was not worth your labour At the imaginations of mans brayne you roued so muche vncertainly that you shoote yet now beating the ayre Therfore haue you eyes and sée not c. There be