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own_o author_n and_o why_o may_v not_o he_o do_v the_o like_a to_o we_o for_o the_o reason_n be_v clean_o different_a they_o have_v no_o public_a authority_n which_o can_v define_v what_o be_v faith_n and_o what_o not_o but_o that_o be_v leave_v not_o only_o to_o every_o private_a doctor_n or_o minister_n but_o to_o every_o private_a lay_v man_n and_o woman_n and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o convince_a proof_n to_o urge_v one_o particular_a protestant_a doctor_n be_v authority_n against_o another_o there_o be_v not_o two_o among_o they_o of_o one_o opinion_n whole_o much_o less_o one_o bind_v to_o answer_n for_o the_o other_o yet_o we_o be_v fain_o and_o may_v with_o good_a reason_n use_v it_o because_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a rule_n of_o faith_n wherewith_o we_o may_v urge_v they_o authority_n of_o church_n they_o have_v none_o scripture_n they_o have_v indeed_o but_o so_o mangle_v corrupt_a pervert_v by_o translation_n and_o misinterpret_v according_a to_o 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all_o this_o which_o here_o i_o say_v be_v to_o be_v understand_v suppose_v that_o indeed_o he_o cite_v catholic_a author_n and_o cite_v they_o true_o as_o here_o he_o promise_v which_o promise_v for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v true_a cite_n how_o he_o perform_v i_o shall_v afterward_o make_v manifest_a here_o only_o i_o shall_v add_v a_o word_n concern_v his_o author_n who_o he_o promise_v we_o shall_v be_v catholic_n whereas_o indeed_o for_o the_o most_o part_n they_o be_v either_o know_v haeretique_n or_o some_o such_o man_n as_o though_o with_o much_o ado_n they_o may_v pass_v for_o catholic_n as_o erasmus_n cornelius_n agrippa_n cassander_n and_o the_o like_a yet_o they_o give_v themselves_o so_o much_o liberty_n in_o they_o writing_n as_o they_o come_v to_o be_v note_v for_o it_o and_o their_o work_n forbid_v of_o which_o i_o will_v not_o therefore_o make_v any_o account_n as_o no_o other_o catholic_n do_v but_o when_o i_o come_v to_o such_o authoritye_n as_o there_o be_v many_o 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and_o therefore_o all_o your_o labour_n be_v lose_v when_o by_o similitude_n you_o labour_v to_o prove_v that_o we_o be_v not_o to_o put_v you_o to_o the_o proof_n of_o our_o error_n by_o name_v the_o author_n time_n and_o place_n for_o upon_o these_o circumstance_n depend_v the_o knowledge_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o disease_n or_o no_o which_o be_v our_o question_n neither_o be_v that_o authority_n of_o s._n aug._n to_o your_o purpose_n for_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o man_n fall_v into_o a_o pit_n of_o who_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o he_o be_v fall_v into_o it_o and_o though_o you_o will_v have_v it_o so_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v fall_v into_o a_o error_n as_o it_o be_v into_o a_o pit_n we_o say_v otherwise_o and_o of_o this_o be_v the_o question_n and_o this_o we_o will_v have_v you_o prove_v by_o assingn_v the_o author_n time_n &_o place_n of_o this_o change_n for_o till_o you_o can_v show_v that_o we_o say_v according_a to_o s._n aug._n rule_n that_o whatsoever_o the_o 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own_o bare_a word_n will_v not_o every_o man_n laugh_v at_o you_o how_o much_o more_o in_o this_o case_n and_o yet_o you_o think_v you_o have_v speak_v wonderful_a wise_o and_o learned_o all_o this_o while_n 4._o which_o may_v yet_o appear_v more_o by_o that_o which_o follow_v of_o your_o comparison_n betwixt_o heresy_n and_o apostasy_n in_o which_o you_o attribute_v this_o late_a unto_o we_o but_o it_o seem_v hereby_o you_o little_o know_v what_o apostasy_n be_v wherefore_o to_o help_v you_o out_o apostasy_n be_v a_o defection_n or_o forsake_v of_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n and_o profession_n of_o christianity_n as_o all_o man_n understand_v it_o whereof_o sure_o you_o can_v tax_v we_o so_o long_o as_o we_o believe_v the_o apostle_n creed_n which_o you_o call_v the_o common_a cognizance_n of_o christianity_n and_o which_o you_o confess_v we_o to_o believe_v how_o then_o can_v we_o be_v apostata'e_n in_o no_o wise_a certain_o but_o if_o we_o err_v we_o err_v as_o heretic_n &_o if_o 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be_v so_o secret_a as_o not_o to_o disturb_v the_o church_n for_o if_o they_o be_v secret_a how_o come_v you_o to_o know_v they_o and_o to_o know_v they_o be_v heresy_n see_v they_o come_v to_o have_v the_o name_n of_o heresy_n only_o by_o condemnation_n of_o the_o church_n as_o for_o your_o last_o point_n of_o the_o father_n give_v warning_n by_o letter_n it_o be_v true_a indeed_o and_o thereto_o you_o may_v also_o have_v add_v if_o you_o have_v so_o please_v that_o the_o father_n do_v forbear_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v thing_n for_o heresy_n or_o to_o censure_v the_o author_n for_o haeretique_n binii_n v._o ep._n cyrill_n alex._n ad_fw-la caelest_n p_o p._n in_o conc._n ephes._n p._n 1._o cap._n 14._o to_o 1._o council_n ed._n post_n binii_n and_o consequent_o to_o send_v such_o letter_n till_o they_o have_v acquaint_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o have_v his_o judgement_n as_o be_v clear_a by_o s._n cyrill_n of_o alexandria_n in_o the_o case_n of_o nestorius_n 5._o but_o we_o 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interpreter_n expound_v it_o of_o haeresy_n none_o that_o ever_o i_o hear_v of_o apostasy_n which_o therefore_o must_v be_v verify_v of_o all_o those_o which_o you_o acknowledge_v for_o open_a haeresye_n 28._o 6._o and_o therefore_o you_o be_v much_o out_o of_o the_o way_n when_o you_o think_v by_o that_o that_o you_o be_v not_o to_o be_v force_v to_o name_v the_o person_n place_n and_o time_n when_o where_o and_o by_o who_o our_o doctrine_n begin_v because_o as_o you_o say_v the_o seed_n be_v sow_v in_o the_o night_n and_o the_o person_n not_o know_v for_o in_o that_o parable_n you_o be_v to_o know_v that_o as_o christ_n be_v the_o goodman_n of_o the_o house_n who_o sow_v the_o good_a seed_n so_o the_o enemy_n that_o sow_v his_o cockle_n in_o the_o night_n be_v the_o devil_n who_o indeed_o work_v in_o the_o night_n and_o invisible_o and_o he_o be_v the_o one_o singular_a and_o principal_a enemy_n of_o christ_n and_o all_o mankind_n and_o he_o it_o be_v that_o sow_v all_o the_o several_a seed_n of_o diverse_a haeresye_n the_o field_n wherein_o he_o sow_v it_o be_v the_o world_n then_o it_o grow_v up_o and_o appear_v when_o that_o seed_n of_o erroneous_a doctrine_n be_v sow_v in_o the_o heart_n of_o wicked_a man_n and_o there_o take_v deep_a root_n break_v forth_o at_o last_o by_o their_o preach_n and_o teach_v thereof_o or_o this_o cokle_n be_v silij_fw-la mali_fw-la as_o the_o scripture_n itself_o say_v evil_a child_n than_o the_o servant_n of_o the_o goodman_n who_o be_v the_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n of_o his_o church_n present_o begin_v to_o complain_v thereof_o and_o wonder_v how_o it_o shall_v come_v etc._n etc._n 4._o so_o s._n aug._n lib._n q._n euang_n in_o math._n cap._n 11._o to_o 4._o this_o
be_v the_o true_a explication_n of_o this_o parable_n not_o according_a to_o my_o private_a sense_n but_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n and_o our_o bless_a saviour_n himself_o who_o voutsafe_v to_o explicate_v this_o parable_n unto_o we_o wherein_o as_o you_o see_v the_o goodman_n seruamt_n mark_v the_o grow_a of_o the_o cockle_n so_o must_v you_o tell_v we_o what_o pastor_n or_o doctor_n do_v ever_o note_v any_o such_o thing_n in_o any_o point_n of_o our_o doctrine_n but_o here_o sir_n humphrey_n what_o be_v to_o be_v think_v of_o you_o that_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o interpret_v scripture_n at_o your_o own_o pleasure_n and_o for_o your_o own_o end_n even_o then_o where_o our_o b._n saviour_n himself_o do_v explicate_v his_o own_o parable_n and_o mean_v thereof_o what_o i_o say_v may_v man_n think_v by_o this_o that_o you_o will_v do_v else_o where_o &_o so_o your_o chief_a gap_n or_o evasion_n for_o not_o assign_v the_o person_n time_n &_o place_n when_o 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condemn_v to_o wit_n the_o superstition_n and_o heathenish_a worship_n of_o dead_a and_o perhaps_o wicked_a man_n tomb_n and_o picture_n use_v by_o some_o bad_a christian_n be_v not_o approve_v by_o the_o nicene_n and_o trent_n counsel_n but_o the_o religious_a worship_n of_o saint_n image_n &_o relic_n which_o s._n aug._n himself_o practise_v 4._o bell._n the_o reliq_n lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o as_o you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n with_o who_o alsoe_o you_o may_v find_v other_o good_a solution_n of_o this_o place_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o can_v but_o have_v see_v and_o consequent_o you_o can_v but_o know_v that_o your_o undeniable_a truth_n be_v flat_o deny_v by_o he_o and_o all_o catholic_n 8._o diverse_a other_o thing_n as_o the_o primacy_n of_o s._n peter_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a justification_n mass_n monastery_n caeremony_n feast_n image_n you_o say_v be_v otherwise_o now_o use_v then_o at_o first_o institute_v which_o for_o these_o five_o last_o to_o wit_n mass_n monastery_n etc._n etc._n you_o prove_v out_o of_o one_o joannes_n ferus_fw-la a_o friar_n a_o man_n much_o in_o your_o book_n and_o the_o book_n of_o all_o your_o minister_n but_o not_o in_o any_o of_o we_o but_o only_o the_o roman_a index_n of_o forbid_v book_n and_o therefore_o of_o no_o authority_n or_o account_n with_o us._n for_o the_o rest_n of_o these_o point_n we_o have_v nothing_o but_o your_o bare_a word_n &_o surmise_n which_o be_v but_o a_o bare_a proof_n &_o not_o worth_a the_o answer_n 9_o after_o this_o the_o knight_n think_v to_o come_v upon_o we_o another_o way_n say_v that_o our_o own_o author_n who_o have_v seek_v the_o time_n and_o beginner_n of_o our_o error_n as_o he_o be_v please_v to_o call_v they_o confess_v a_o alteration_n though_o they_o do_v not_o find_v when_o it_o begin_v for_o restraint_n of_o priest_n marriage_n he_o say_v that_o marius_n can_v find_v when_o it_o come_v in_o yet_o after_o he_o bring_v polidore_n virgil_n say_v that_o priest_n 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polydore_n virgil_n it_o be_v true_a he_o say_v as_o the_o knight_n tell_v we_o and_o eveâ—_o as_o much_o more_o beside_o as_o any_o haeretique_n can_v say_v of_o that_o matter_n but_o it_o boot_v not_o that_o work_n of_o his_o de_fw-la rerum_fw-la inurn_v â—oâ—â—â—â—_n be_v a_o forbid_a book_n 19_o conc._n nic._n can_v 3._o carthag_a 2._o can_n 2._o v._o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr cler_n cap._n 19_o and_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o say_v most_o evident_o false_a as_o appear_v by_o infinite_a testimony_n but_o particular_o by_o a_o canon_n of_o that_o great_a nicene_n council_n 800._o year_n before_o gregory_n the_o 7._o his_o tyme._n and_o the_o 2._o council_n of_o carthage_n which_o testify_v it_o as_o a_o thing_n teach_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o observe_v by_o antiquity_n the_o knight_n may_v find_v more_o in_o bellarmine_n for_o proof_n of_o this_o point_n here_o i_o only_o ask_v how_o he_o make_v his_o author_n hang_v together_o marius_n can_v find_v the_o beginning_n 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of_o some_o particular_a church_n beside_o for_o a_o final_a answer_n i_o say_v it_o be_v no_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n but_o practice_n the_o doctrine_n have_v ever_o be_v and_o be_v still_o the_o same_o of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n as_o the_o church_n shall_v ordain_v though_o upon_o good_a reason_n the_o practice_n have_v change_v according_a to_o the_o diversity_n and_o necessity_n of_o tyme._n with_o all_o therefore_o that_o ever_o he_o can_v do_v he_o can_v not_o refute_v that_o argument_n which_o we_o make_v against_o he_o and_o he_o that_o our_o doctrine_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tax_v of_o error_n so_o long_o as_o they_o can_v show_v when_o where_o and_o by_o who_o it_o begin_v as_o we_o can_v and_o do_v every_o day_n of_o
gospel_n be_v rather_o to_o be_v have_v by_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_v of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n and_o prove_v it_o by_o this_o that_o if_o we_o lie_v aside_o the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o use_n of_o the_o church_n no_o man_n can_v be_v able_a to_o prove_v that_o any_o priest_n now_o in_o these_o time_n do_v consecrate_v the_o true_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o same_o that_o he_o say_v after_o in_o other_o word_n in_o nostra_fw-la missa_fw-la in_o our_o mass_n that_o be_v mass_n in_o these_o time_n not_o say_v he_o that_o this_o matter_n be_v now_o doubtful_a but_o that_o the_o certainty_n thereof_o be_v have_v not_o so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_n of_o so_o long_a time_n which_o they_o have_v leave_v to_o posterity_n for_o say_v he_o again_o though_o christ_n of_o bread_n make_v his_o body_n and_o of_o wine_n his_o blood_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v by_o force_n of_o any_o word_n there_o set_v down_o that_o we_o as_o often_o as_o we_o shall_v attempt_v any_o such_o thing_n shall_v do_v it_o which_o unless_o it_o be_v so_o say_v we_o can_v he_o certain_v thereof_o these_o be_v his_o very_a word_n where_o you_o see_v how_o together_o he_o deliver_v two_o point_n of_o catholic_a doctrine_n the_o one_o of_o the_o real_a presence_n the_o other_o of_o tradition_n for_o understanding_n of_o the_o scripture_n neither_o do_v he_o say_v that_o the_o real_a presence_n in_o our_o mass_n now_o a_o day_n be_v not_o prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n but_o not_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o without_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n which_o we_o acknowledge_v general_o necessary_a in_o the_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n neither_o do_v you_o therefore_o right_o argue_v the_o real_a presence_n be_v not_o prove_v so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n as_o out_o of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la not_o out_o of_o scripture_n this_o i_o say_v be_v a_o idle_a argument_n for_o the_o father_n interpretation_n &_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n do_v but_o deliver_v we_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n 17._o what_o then_o have_v you_o here_o out_o of_o bishop_n fisher_n to_o prove_v any_o of_o your_o 4._o point_n not_o one_o word_n for_o if_o his_o word_n do_v prove_v any_o thing_n they_o shall_v prove_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n not_o against_o transubstantiation_n which_o be_v your_o controversy_n and_o for_o those_o other_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o this_o same_o holy_a bishop_n and_o martyr_n for_o a_o conclusion_n thus_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la igitur_fw-la per_fw-la ullam_fw-la scripturam_fw-la probari_fw-la it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n they_o discover_v your_o dishonesty_n most_o of_o all_o for_o by_o break_v of_o the_o sentence_n there_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n believe_v they_o have_v relation_n to_o the_o word_n next_o before_o by_o you_o cite_v as_o if_o the_o bishop_n do_v say_v that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a in_o our_o mass_n whereas_o there_o be_v a_o whole_a leaf_n between_o these_o two_o place_n but_o the_o only_a bare_a recital_n of_o the_o bishop_n word_n shall_v serve_v for_o a_o confutation_n which_o be_v these_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la igitur_fw-la per_fw-la ullam_fw-la scripturan_n probari_fw-la quod_fw-la aut_fw-la laicus_fw-la aut_fw-la sacerdos_n quoties_fw-la id_fw-la negotij_fw-la tentaverit_fw-la pari_fw-la modo_fw-la conficiet_fw-la ex_fw-la pane_fw-la vinoque_fw-la christi_fw-la corpus_fw-la &_o sanguinem_fw-la atque_fw-la christus_fw-la ipse_fw-la confecit_fw-la quum_fw-la necâ—stud_fw-la in_o scripture_n contineatur_fw-la it_o can_v therefore_o be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n that_o either_o lay_v man_n or_o priest_n as_o often_o as_o he_o shall_v go_v about_o that_o business_n shall_v in_o like_a manner_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n make_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n as_o christ_n himself_o do_v see_v that_o neither_o that_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o his_o drift_n be_v only_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a word_n in_o scripture_n whereby_o it_o be_v promise_v that_o either_o priest_n or_o lay_v man_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o consecrate_v &_o that_o though_o christ_n do_v himself_o consecrate_v &_o command_v his_o apostle_n so_o to_o do_v in_o remembrance_n of_o he_o that_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o add_v any_o express_a promise_n that_o the_o same_o effect_n shall_v always_o follow_v whensoever_o any_o man_n shall_v offer_v to_o consecrate_v which_o be_v not_o against_o us._n for_o we_o gather_v that_o power_n to_o pertain_v to_o the_o apostle_n successor_n in_o priesthood_n out_o of_o the_o word_n 1._o council_n trid._n sess_n 22._o q._n 1._o hoc_fw-la facite_fw-la in_o meam_fw-la commemorationem_fw-la not_o bare_o but_o as_o they_o have_v be_v ever_o understand_v by_o the_o church_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v against_o we_o that_o we_o may_v rather_o urge_v it_o against_o you_o upon_o the_o same_o occasion_n that_o bishop_n fisher_n do_v to_o wit_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o necessity_n of_o tradition_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o understanding_n of_o scripture_n and_o so_o by_o this_o it_o be_v manifest_v how_o much_o you_o have_v abuse_v this_o holy_a bishop_n meaning_n as_o you_o do_v other_o two_o bishop_n that_o follow_v 18._o the_o one_o be_v gul._n durandus_fw-la bishop_n of_o mand_v out_o of_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o will_v prove_v the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n not_o to_o be_v of_o the_o essence_n of_o this_o sacrament_n for_o what_o else_o you_o will_v have_v with_o he_o i_o see_v not_o but_o special_o because_o have_v cite_v he_o thus_o in_o english_a christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n by_o his_o heavenly_a benediction_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o word_n the_o bread_n be_v turn_v unto_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n then_o you_o put_v these_o word_n in_o latin_a tunc_fw-la confecit_fw-la cum_fw-la benedixit_fw-la they_o he_o make_v it_o when_o he_o bless_v it_o whereby_o you_o seem_v to_o put_v the_o force_n of_o this_o testimony_n in_o those_o word_n as_o if_o by_o they_o you_o will_v prove_v out_o of_o durandus_fw-la that_o christ_n do_v not_o consecrate_v by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o that_o blessing_n but_o durand_n himself_o shall_v disprove_v you_o sir_n knight_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v benedixit_fw-la benedictione_n caelesti_fw-la &_o virtute_fw-la verbi_fw-la qua_fw-la convertitur_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la to_o wit_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_n meum_fw-la he_o bless_v it_o by_o the_o heavenly_a blessing_n and_o power_n of_o the_o word_n by_o which_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n 14._o durand_n rat_n cap._n 41._o n._n 14._o to_o wit_n this_o be_v my_o body_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la which_o last_o word_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v sir_n humphrey_n why_o you_o cut_v of_o but_o i_o need_v not_o ask_v for_o any_o man_n may_v see_v it_o be_v because_o you_o will_v not_o have_v that_o powerful_a benediction_n whereof_o this_o author_n speak_v to_o consist_v in_o those_o sacred_a word_n but_o durand_n both_o in_o this_o very_a sentence_n and_o often_o in_o the_o same_o place_n attribute_v most_o plain_o that_o power_n to_o those_o very_a word_n not_o to_o any_o other_o blessing_n as_o may_v appear_v in_o that_o he_o say_v that_o we_o do_v bless_v ex_fw-la illa_fw-la virtute_fw-la quam_fw-la christus_fw-la indidit_fw-la verbis_fw-la by_o that_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o the_o word_n 19_o odo_n caemeracensis_n be_v the_o other_o bishop_n that_o follow_v who_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n you_o cite_v and_o as_o much_o to_o the_o purpose_n his_o word_n be_v these_o as_o you_o bring_v they_o christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n and_o then_o make_v that_o his_o body_n which_o be_v first_o bread_n and_o so_o by_o blessing_n it_o become_v flesh_n for_o otherwise_o he_o will_v not_o have_v say_v after_o he_o have_v bless_v it_o this_o be_v my_o body_n unless_o by_o blessing_n it_o he_o have_v make_v it_o his_o body_n which_o word_n you_o put_v in_o the_o margin_n in_o latin_a imperfect_o and_o translate_v even_o they_o corrupt_o benedixit_fw-la suum_fw-la corpus_fw-la you_o translate_v christ_n bless_v bread_n qui_fw-la priùs_fw-la erat_fw-la panis_fw-la benedictione_n factus_fw-la est_fw-la caro_fw-la which_o in_o true_a english_a be_v thus_o that_o which_o be_v bread_n before_o by_o blessing_n be_v make_v flesh_n you_o translate_v otherwise_o as_o may_v appear_v by_o your_o word_n though_o i_o see_v not_o to_o what_o end_n you_o shall_v so_o
wind_n indulgence_n §._o 8._o 1._o we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o §_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o be_v indulgence_n which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v after_o your_o wont_a manner_n with_o the_o ten_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n teach_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v that_o power_n of_o grant_v indulgence_n in_o his_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v use_v the_o same_o from_o most_o ancient_a time_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v retain_v in_o the_o church_n condemn_v also_o whosoever_o shall_v term_v they_o unprofitable_a or_o deny_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n to_o grant_v they_o which_o doctrine_n you_o allow_v not_o of_o as_o not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n institution_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n you_o confess_v indeed_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o power_n in_o the_o bishop_n to_o remit_v or_o mitigate_v the_o severity_n of_o the_o punishment_n which_o by_o the_o canon_n man_n be_v to_o undergo_v for_o certain_a great_a crime_n which_o mitigation_n you_o allow_v to_o have_v be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o indulgence_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n you_o take_v that_o relaxation_n of_o the_o incestuous_a corithian_a by_o s_n paul_n thus_o far_o you_o go_v well_o with_o we_o but_o now_o you_o say_v the_o indulgence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n &_o his_o saint_n term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n which_o treasure_n you_o say_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o every_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o this_o not_o only_o for_o some_o few_o year_n in_o this_o life_n but_o for_o many_o thousand_o in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n 2._o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o yet_o be_v it_o nothing_o so_o for_o first_o it_o neither_o prove_v any_o thing_n nor_o overthrow_v our_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n though_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n of_o these_o time_n and_o those_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o use_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o our_o only_a ground_n for_o this_o point_n of_o doctrine_n but_o we_o have_v other_o both_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n &_o undoubted_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n at_o least_o and_o this_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n in_o relaxation_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o penitential_a canon_n be_v not_o urge_v by_o we_o at_o lest_o by_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n as_o a_o evident_a convince_a proof_n but_o only_o as_o coniectural_a and_o probable_a q._n suar._n to_o 3._o in_o 3._o pars_fw-la disp_n 49_o sect_n 2._o n._n 4.5_o &_o sâ—_n q._n it_o be_v not_o then_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o you_o to_o stand_v so_o much_o urge_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o indulgence_n of_o our_o time_n and_o those_o of_o other_o former_a time_n as_o if_o by_o do_v that_o you_o have_v do_v all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v 3._o but_o beside_o to_o answer_n second_o you_o have_v not_o do_v even_o that_o for_o you_o do_v but_o only_o make_v show_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v man_n think_v they_o be_v different_a without_o show_v wherein_o the_o difference_n consist_v nay_o even_o out_o of_o that_o which_o you_o grant_v of_o those_o ancient_a indulgence_n you_o may_v be_v disprove_v in_o what_o you_o deny_v of_o we_o for_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a word_n indulgence_n you_o grant_v it_o to_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v we_o be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o though_o allege_v as_o a_o difference_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o see_v wherein_o the_o difference_n be_v for_o they_o be_v a_o absolution_n because_o it_o be_v a_o unloose_n or_o untie_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o canon_n for_o certain_a great_a crime_n man_n be_v bind_v or_o tie_v to_o undergo_v such_o penance_n for_o example_n to_o fast_o with_o bread_n and_o water_n so_o many_o day_n in_o a_o week_n for_o so_o many_o month_n or_o year_n not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o the_o like_a by_o this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v untie_v or_o loose_v from_o so_o much_o or_o so_o little_a as_o by_o that_o pardon_n they_o be_v free_v from_o and_o so_o be_v it_o in_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o the_o absolution_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o lose_v or_o untie_n it_o can_v not_o be_v also_o in_o the_o guilt_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v remit_v in_o your_o indulgence_n as_o well_o as_o in_o we_o for_o a_o man_n be_v not_o free_a so_o long_o as_o he_o be_v guilty_a if_o then_o they_o be_v free_v by_o that_o pardon_n the_o guilt_n be_v take_v away_o thereby_o it_o be_v not_o likewise_o in_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o be_v alike_o remit_v in_o the_o one_o and_o other_o for_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n or_o penance_n which_o man_n be_v free_v from_o in_o those_o time_n by_o indulgence_n and_o so_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n which_o we_o be_v now_o adays_o free_v from_o by_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v sir_n humphrey_n when_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n in_o this_o say_v that_o indulgence_n which_o be_v first_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v 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by_o the_o bishop_n and_o so_o it_o be_v also_o now_o for_o every_o bishop_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v this_o power_n but_o you_o will_v say_v humphrey_n not_o so_o much_o now_o as_o then_o be_v it_o so_o that_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o that_o be_v your_o complaint_n that_o it_o be_v more_o use_v now_o then_o in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v again_o the_o pope_n have_v more_o now_o than_o he_o have_v then_o and_o that_o all_o be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o late_a part_n be_v false_a all_o be_v not_o so_o whole_o transfer_v but_o that_o every_o bishop_n have_v his_o part_n of_o this_o power_n over_o his_o own_o subject_n though_o with_o some_o limitation_n and_o though_o the_o pope_n shall_v take_v it_o whole_o to_o himself_o and_o from_o other_o bishop_n what_o be_v this_o against_o indulgence_n do_v it_o alter_v the_o nature_n of_o they_o because_o the_o pope_n give_v they_o either_o more_o by_o himself_o or_o more_o 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riff_o raff_o stuff_n as_o your_o minister_n be_v wont_a to_o eke_o out_o their_o book_n and_o sermon_n without_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o bull_n of_o pope_n or_o testimony_n of_o good_a author_n of_o any_o indulgence_n so_o grant_v which_o though_o you_o or_o they_o can_v yet_o be_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o than_o your_o profane_a jest_n out_o of_o guiciardin_n of_o play_v a_o game_n at_o table_n for_o a_o indulgence_n for_o what_o suppose_v that_o be_v true_a may_v not_o a_o man_n think_v you_o tell_v as_o good_a a_o tale_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o in_o their_o pot_n have_v make_v so_o bold_a with_o almighty_a god_n himself_o as_o to_o drink_v a_o health_n unto_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n beside_o guiciardin_n history_n translate_v by_o coelius_n secundus_fw-la curio_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o to_o cite_v for_o it_o be_v most_o like_o you_o be_v no_o italian_a be_v forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n that_o curio_n be_v a_o haeretique_n of_o the_o first_o class_n but_o pass_v from_o your_o merriment_n you_o tell_v we_o serious_o that_o you_o will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v a_o strange_a presumption_n for_o a_o council_n to_o determine_v a_o uncertain_a doctrine_n upon_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n and_o opinion_n of_o schoolman_n but_o you_o venture_v to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o senseless_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_v to_o it_o without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n your_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o fine_a rhetorical_a figure_n to_o say_v it_o be_v presumption_n by_o say_v you_o will_v not_o say_v so_o but_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o will_v go_v the_o plain_a way_n to_o work_v with_o you_o and_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v intolerable_a presumption_n for_o you_o suppose_v you_o be_v a_o man_n of_o learning_n to_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o censure_v of_o presumption_n so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n wherein_o the_o whole_a flower_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o learning_n and_o sanctity_n be_v gather_v together_o the_o splendour_n whereof_o be_v so_o great_a that_o your_o night_n owl_n haeretique_n dare_v not_o once_o appear_v though_o they_o be_v invite_v and_o promise_v to_o go_v and_o come_v free_o with_o all_o the_o security_n they_o can_v wish_v and_o for_o such_o a_o fellow_n as_o you_o to_o make_v yourself_o judge_v thereof_o what_o intolerable_a presumption_n be_v it_o it_o be_v presumption_n with_o you_o forsooth_o for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n upon_o the_o perpetual_a and_o constant_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n &_o upon_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o doctor_n be_v both_o of_o they_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n of_o themselves_o there_o be_v withal_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n in_o the_o sense_n which_o it_o have_v ever_o be_v understand_v by_o catholic_a interpreter_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o presumption_n for_o you_o without_o doctor_n without_o father_n without_o council_n without_o scripture_n without_o any_o manner_n of_o authority_n to_o go_v against_o all_o this_o authority_n 13._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o senseless_a and_o weak_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_n to_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v which_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n i_o answer_v you_o do_v not_o know_v what_o you_o say_v it_o show_v plain_o you_o have_v not_o read_v one_o of_o those_o father_n of_o who_o you_o so_o much_o brag_v who_o all_o agree_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n who_o authority_n you_o may_v see_v in_o great_a number_n in_o bellarmine_n 7._o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o but_o for_o consent_v of_o father_n it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v requisite_a because_o we_o have_v not_o the_o tradition_n but_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n but_o this_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o be_v by_o their_o express_a testimony_n in_o writing_n then_o in_o the_o scripture_n itself_o for_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v know_v believe_v or_o practice_v no_o more_o but_o what_o they_o do_v write_v or_o that_o any_o one_o do_v write_v in_o particular_a all_o the_o whole_a belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o father_n do_v in_o their_o writing_n as_o the_o apostle_n do_v in_o they_o that_o be_v write_v of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a matter_n as_o the_o particular_a occasion_n of_o answer_v some_o haeretique_n or_o instruct_v some_o catholic_a do_v require_v and_o therefore_o mention_v no_o more_o than_o be_v needful_a for_o that_o end_n but_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v most_o of_o all_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o the_o present_a time_n see_v that_o practice_n be_v without_o beginning_n can_v otherwise_o have_v be_v but_o from_o those_o that_o have_v go_v before_o from_o time_n to_o time_n and_o though_o you_o make_v a_o difference_n yet_o certain_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o consent_n of_o catholic_a doctor_n in_o the_o present_a time_n as_o it_o be_v of_o holy_a father_n in_o former_a time_n who_o be_v the_o doctor_n of_o those_o time_n and_o as_o they_o be_v father_n not_o so_o proper_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o time_n wherein_o they_o live_v as_o of_o succeed_a age_n so_o the_o doctor_n of_o these_o time_n be_v father_n in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o shall_v come_v after_o they_o neither_o can_v the_o consent_n of_o doctor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n more_o err_v in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v always_o the_o same_o no_o less_o in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o 28._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 28._o and_o tertullian_n rule_n have_v still_o place_n as_o well_o in_o one_o age_n as_o another_o to_o wit_n quod_fw-la apud_fw-la multos_fw-la unum_fw-la invenitur_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la erratum_fw-la sed_fw-la traditum_fw-la that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o among_o many_o be_v no_o error_n but_o a_o tradition_n the_o common_a consent_n therefore_o of_o doctor_n and_o particular_a church_n be_v always_o a_o sufficient_a argument_n of_o tradition_n and_o antiquity_n and_o consequent_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n against_o whatsoever_o novel_a fancy_n of_o any_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o control_v the_o same_o this_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o we_o want_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o antiquity_n for_o any_o point_n but_o to_o show_v that_o we_o need_v it_o not_o so_o express_v in_o ancient_a author_n but_o that_o the_o very_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o stop_n the_o mouth_n of_o any_o contentious_a haeretique_n no_o less_o then_o in_o ancient_a time_n when_o that_o proof_n of_o forego_v writer_n can_v have_v no_o place_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n think_v he_o answer_v sufficient_o for_o defence_n of_o himself_o and_o offence_n of_o his_o contentious_a enemy_n 11._o 1._o cor._n 11._o when_o he_o say_v si_fw-la quis_fw-la videtur_fw-la contentiosus_fw-la esse_fw-la nos_fw-la talem_fw-la consuetudinem_fw-la non_fw-la habemus_fw-la neque_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la dei_fw-la if_o any_o man_n seem_v to_o be_v contentious_a we_o have_v no_o such_o custom_n nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o so_o much_o more_o may_v we_o now_o say_v of_o our_o long_a continue_a custom_n of_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n wherefore_o your_o exception_n sir_n humphrey_n against_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o define_v this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n without_o such_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n &_o antiquity_n as_o you_o require_v be_v vain_a as_o that_o be_v also_o false_a which_o you_o here_o again_o repeat_v that_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n can_v be_v warrantable_a without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n for_o faith_n be_v more_o ancient_a than_o scripture_n for_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o time_n before_o christ_n faith_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o without_o writing_n as_o also_o by_o his_o apostle_n after_o he_o for_o many_o year_n without_o any_o word_n write_v and_o so_o it_o have_v be_v ever_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n that_o as_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o apostolical_a preach_n then_o write_v so_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v still_o to_o be_v give_v to_o their_o word_n deliver_v we_o by_o tradition_n then_o by_o their_o writing_n the_o credit_n and_o sense_n even_o of_o their_o writing_n depend_v upon_o the_o same_o tradition_n among_o who_o the_o clean_a contrary_a principle_n be_v as_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a as_o this_o of_o you_o be_v with_o you_o
you_o see_v his_o meaning_n to_o be_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v idol-worship_n and_o approve_v image-worship_n neither_o do_v your_o note_n of_o the_o greek_a word_n in_o the_o margin_n in_o proof_n that_o s._n peter_n speak_v of_o idol-worship_n avail_v you_o for_o val._n speak_v only_o of_o the_o latin_a word_n which_o be_v more_o indifferent_a and_o in_o some_o author_n signify_v the_o same_o that_o imago_fw-la and_o even_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o it_o be_v now_o by_o the_o use_n of_o father_n counsel_n and_o doctor_n determine_v to_o signify_v a_o empty_a or_o vain_a image_n of_o a_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n idolum_fw-la nihil_fw-la est_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la a_o idol_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n 7.4_o cor._n 7.4_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n respect_v the_o primitive_a signification_n or_o etymology_n it_o may_v perhaps_o be_v take_v more_o indifferent_o for_o it_o come_v from_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v species_n or_o forma_fw-la the_o seem_a shape_n or_o beauty_n of_o a_o thing_n or_o person_n but_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o signification_n of_o word_n we_o must_v follow_v the_o ecclesiastical_a rule_n neither_o do_v i_o allow_v valencia_n his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la and_o explication_n of_o s._n peter_n text_n or_o even_o his_o argument_n draw_v from_o thence_o though_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n which_o he_o defend_v be_v true_a to_o wit_n image-worship_n but_o this_o be_v to_o show_v you_o how_o he_o may_v use_v the_o word_n harmeles_o especial_o declare_v himself_o plain_o by_o other_o word_n though_o for_o you_o to_o stand_v trifle_v &_o contend_v about_o word_n when_o you_o see_v his_o meaning_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o your_o want_n of_o matter_n but_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o can_v but_o note_v how_o to_o urge_v the_o matter_n more_o against_o valentia_n you_o run_v yourself_o upon_o the_o rock_n for_o you_o observe_v that_o the_o word_n use_v by_o saint_n peter_n in_o that_o place_n signify_v idol-worship_n not_o image-worship_n wherein_o you_o seem_v plain_o to_o confess_v that_o image-worship_n and_o idol-worship_n and_o consequent_o a_o image_n and_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o whereby_o as_o you_o think_v to_o advantage_v you_o self_n in_o this_o place_n against_o the_o jesuit_n so_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v that_o herein_o you_o contradict_v your_o self_n and_o the_o whole_a currant_n of_o your_o own_o doctor_n who_o chief_a argument_n against_o image_n be_v certain_a place_n of_o scripture_n against_o idol_n which_o you_o also_o bring_v before_o for_o if_o a_o image_n &_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o then_o be_v all_o your_o argument_n nothing_o worth_a or_o if_o they_o be_v then_o be_v valentia_n argument_n good_a choose_v which_o you_o will_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o cast_v up_o your_o count_n aright_o you_o will_v find_v you_o have_v lose_v more_o than_o you_o have_v gain_v by_o this_o citation_n of_o valencia_n 15._o a_o five_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n you_o deliver_v in_o these_o word_n concern_v the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n it_o be_v most_o evident_a say_v bellarmine_n but_o concern_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a and_o out_o of_o canus_n you_o say_v the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o they_o do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o give_v grace_n or_o no_o thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o place_n of_o bellarm._n you_o be_v convince_v before_o of_o manifest_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellarm._n say_v it_o be_v certain_a fine_a cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o in_o fine_a but_o not_o so_o manifest_v you_o leave_v out_o not_o manifest_a and_o change_v certain_a into_o not_o certain_a beside_o what_o be_v that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v be_v not_o manifest_v but_o certain_a that_o these_o two_o be_v sacrament_n the_o rest_n not_o noe_o such_o matter_n sir_n knight_n it_o be_v their_o signification_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o &_o yet_o not_o their_o signification_n of_o grace_n which_o they_o cause_n but_o their_o signify_v of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o beginning_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o grace_n give_v by_o the_o sacrament_n this_o signification_n he_o say_v be_v certain_a but_o not_o so_o evident_a in_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o canus_n you_o corrupt_v he_o as_o foul_o also_o for_o first_o you_o join_v two_o several_a place_n together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v but_o one_o in_o canus_n himself_o &_o then_o make_v he_o say_v that_o the_o divine_n do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o that_o be_v matrimony_n give_v grace_n or_o no_o which_o be_v most_o flat_o false_a for_o as_o i_o show_v before_o he_o grant_v it_o with_o all_o divine_n to_o be_v proper_o a_o sacrament_n his_o two_o place_n several_o be_v thus_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o diverse_o of_o the_o matter_n &_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o it_o be_v folly_n for_o a_o man_n to_o resolve_v any_o thing_n certain_a this_o be_v one_o whereof_o i_o speak_v more_o before_o &_o show_v that_o his_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a whither_o it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o not_o or_o whither_o it_o have_v a_o matter_n and_o form_n 4._o cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o for_o that_o i_o show_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o by_o most_o express_a word_n of_o his_o own_o but_o that_o no_o man_n can_v say_v determinate_o which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n which_o as_o bellarmine_n say_v well_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a for_o we_o to_o know_v but_o that_o without_o it_o we_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o acknowledge_v a_o true_a sacrament_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o know_v what_o be_v requisite_a for_o celebrate_v a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o what_o those_o thing_n be_v without_o which_o it_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n though_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o of_o those_o thing_n be_v the_o matter_n &_o which_o the_o form_n for_o example_n if_o a_o priest_n in_o baptism_n use_v true_a water_n and_o the_o right_a word_n he_o do_v administer_v a_o true_a sacrament_n though_o he_o shall_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n nay_o though_o he_o shall_v think_v the_o word_n to_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o water_v the_o form_n though_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n the_o other_o place_n of_o canus_n be_v that_o he_o say_v that_o matrimony_n contract_v without_o a_o priest_n be_v no_o sacrament_n because_o in_o his_o opinion_n the_o word_n which_o the_o priest_n speak_v be_v the_o form_n and_o of_o that_o kind_n of_o matrimony_n he_o consequent_o deni_v it_o to_o give_v grace_n but_o of_o matrimony_n absolute_o and_o as_o it_o be_v use_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n he_o never_o make_v doubt_n see_v before_o his_o word_n 16._o the_o last_o matter_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v of_o our_o tradition_n which_o you_o say_v you_o be_v uncertain_a whereas_o the_o scripture_n be_v write_v to_o give_v we_o certainty_n for_o this_o say_n you_o allege_v no_o catholic_n true_o nor_o false_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v count_v of_o be_v so_o manifest_o false_a for_o whence_o have_v we_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o very_a scripture_n themselves_o but_o by_o tradition_n and_o much_o more_o of_o the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n beside_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o show_v this_o your_o prime_a principle_n be_v not_o only_o false_a but_o contrary_a to_o express_v scripture_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o father_n which_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o whole_a treatise_n write_v hereof_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o your_o section_n of_o certainty_n we_o find_v nothing_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n uncertain_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n nothing_o certain_a on_o your_o side_n but_o only_o that_o you_o be_v always_o and_o every_o where_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v of_o the_o 11._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 11._o chap._n 11._o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o great_a safety_n comfort_n and_o benefit_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o the_o protestant_a faith_n then_o in_o the_o romish_a chapter_n xi_o 1._o from_z certainty_n you_o come_v to_o safety_n whereof_o you_o need_v not_o have_v make_v so_o distinct_a mention_n and_o proof_n it_o follow_v necessary_o and_o manifest_o that_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v most_o certain_a in_o itself_o be_v also_o most_o safe_a for_o man_n to_o follow_v as_o also_o it_o can_v be_v safe_a without_o certainty_n wherefore_o as_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o certain_a in_o your_o former_a
that_o suppose_v he_o do_v know_v they_o to_o be_v good_a yet_o they_o have_v not_o that_o goodness_n from_o he_o or_o as_o they_o be_v his_o but_o as_o they_o be_v from_o almighty_a god_n and_o by_o his_o grace_n and_o yet_o more_o we_o teach_v that_o he_o may_v fall_v again_o and_o loose_v all_o his_o labour_n which_o do_v exceed_o diminish_v confidence_n of_o a_o man_n self_n so_o as_o we_o leave_v nothing_o for_o a_o man_n to_o trust_v to_o of_o himself_o but_o that_o he_o must_v give_v all_o to_o god_n as_o s._n paul_n do_v in_o say_v 15.10_o 1._o cor._n 15.10_o non_fw-la ego_fw-la sed_fw-la gratia_fw-la dei_fw-la mecum_fw-la not_o i_o but_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n with_o i_o &_o qui_fw-la gloriatur_fw-la in_o domino_fw-la glorietur_fw-la that_o he_o that_o do_v glory_n may_v glory_v in_o god_n and_o to_o show_v that_o we_o have_v nothing_o of_o ourselves_o we_o say_v again_o with_o the_o same_o saint_n quid_fw-la habes_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la accepisti_fw-la what_o have_v thou_o which_o thou_o have_v not_o receive_v now_o on_o the_o other_o side_n examine_v you_o your_o own_o doctrine_n a_o little_a better_o and_o see_v whither_o it_o do_v not_o teach_v the_o contrary_a vain_a confidence_n in_o most_o of_o these_o point_n as_o that_o a_o man_n must_v assure_v himself_o that_o his_o sin_n be_v forgive_v that_o he_o must_v assure_v himself_o of_o his_o salvation_n that_o he_o can_v fall_v from_o grace_n and_o the_o like_a which_o ground_n suppose_v how_o can_v he_o work_v his_o salvation_n with_o fear_n &_o tremble_v as_o s._n peter_n teach_v and_o so_o we_o have_v answer_v 3._o point_n of_o safety_n which_o you_o begin_v withal_o out_o of_o your_o own_o invention_n now_o you_o come_v to_o other_o point_n of_o safety_n which_o you_o prove_v by_o authority_n of_o other_o man_n 5._o the_o first_o of_o these_o and_z fourth_z in_o order_n be_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n which_o you_o say_v be_v better_a than_o in_o one_o kind_n alone_o you_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o cassander_n vazq_n hales_n and_o valencia_n i_o answer_v that_o for_o cassander_n you_o know_v he_o be_v no_o author_n to_o be_v allege_v against_o a_o catholic_a for_o vazq_n it_o seem_v you_o be_v not_o so_o well_o skill_v in_o he_o as_o to_o cite_v he_o out_o of_o his_o own_o work_n but_o out_o of_o the_o french_a minister_n chamier_n who_o be_v another_o great_a man_n with_o you_o but_o for_o the_o matter_n it_o be_v true_a some_o few_o catholic_n as_o vazq_n hales_n 3._o p._n 4._o q._n 11._o m._n 2._o be_v 4._o §_o 3._o for_o valencia_n i_o shall_v tell_v you_o more_o anon_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o it_o be_v of_o great_a merit_n and_o fruit_n to_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n then_o in_o one_o but_o i_o ask_v you_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v more_o safe_a to_o follow_v those_o two_o then_o 10._o 20._o 30._o or_o 40._o other_o divine_n to_o the_o contrary_n for_o my_o part_n i_o do_v not_o see_v any_o reason_n for_o it_o if_o you_o weigh_v the_o matter_n by_o reason_n or_o by_o number_n and_o authority_n of_o doctor_n second_o neither_o of_o these_o two_o do_v acknowledge_v any_o danger_n in_o our_o practice_n of_o one_o kind_n but_o allow_v it_o for_o good_a and_o lawful_a for_o so_o say_v hales_n quia_fw-la christus_fw-la integrè_fw-la sumitur_fw-la sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la bene_fw-la licet_fw-la sumere_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la sub_fw-la specie_fw-la panis_fw-la tantum_fw-la sicut_fw-la fere_n ubique_fw-la fit_v a_o laicis_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la because_o christ_n be_v receive_v entire_o under_o each_o kind_n it_o be_v very_o lawful_a to_o receive_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n under_o the_o kind_n of_o bread_n only_o as_o it_o be_v use_v almost_o every_o where_n by_o the_o laity_n in_o the_o church_n and_o vazq_n employ_v a_o whole_a disputation_n in_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o same_o truth_n out_o of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n show_v withal_o that_o the_o latin_a church_n do_v with_o very_o good_a reason_n forbid_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o solue_v all_o the_o argument_n of_o the_o haeretique_n against_o it_o so_o as_o he_o acknowledge_v not_o your_o doctrine_n to_o be_v either_o safe_a or_o the_o same_o with_o he_o but_o a_o clean_a different_a haeresy_n for_o he_o be_v a_o school_n opinion_n not_o of_o the_o safety_n but_o of_o the_o fruitfulness_n of_o communion_n in_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n you_o be_v a_o haeresy_n deny_v the_o sufficiency_n of_o one_o kind_n and_o urge_v both_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o necessity_n for_o the_o integrity_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o fulfil_v of_o christ_n precept_n and_o deny_v also_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o dispense_n therein_o and_o though_o in_o speculation_n vazq_n rather_o allow_v both_o kind_n to_o be_v more_o fruitful_a yet_o all_o circumstance_n consider_v he_o deem_v communion_n in_o one_o kind_n absolute_o better_a for_o many_o great_a reason_n pertain_v to_o the_o reverence_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o common_a good_a which_o do_v not_o only_o countervail_v but_o far_o surpass_v the_o want_n of_o that_o fruit_n which_o be_v give_v more_o by_o the_o other_o kind_n all_o necessary_a grace_n be_v give_v by_o one_o alone_a as_o he_o teach_v and_o for_o hales_n beside_o that_o he_o hold_v it_o very_o lawful_a to_o communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n only_o which_o be_v direct_o against_o you_o i_o think_v a_o man_n that_o will_v go_v about_o it_o may_v easy_o puzzle_v you_o out_o of_o he_o even_o for_o so_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o perfection_n of_o the_o spiritual_a fruit_n 1._o p._n 4._o q._n 10._o m._n 3._o be_v 1._o for_o thus_o he_o say_v to_o that_o which_o be_v say_v that_o he_o that_o receive_v under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n only_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n perfect_o and_o entire_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o sacrament_n be_v receive_v two_o way_n spiritual_o and_o sacramenta_o wherefore_o i_o say_v that_o quantum_fw-la ad_fw-la spiritualem_fw-la sumptionem_fw-la perfectè_fw-la accipit_fw-la for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o spiritual_a receive_n he_o receive_v it_o perfect_o but_o not_o so_o for_o the_o sacramental_a receive_n now_o this_o perfection_n of_o a_o sacrament_n he_o explicate_v before_o to_o consist_v in_o the_o representation_n which_o say_v he_o be_v not_o so_o perfect_a in_o one_o kind_n as_o both_o which_o we_o also_o grant_v though_o we_o say_v the_o fruit_n to_o be_v the_o same_o in_o one_o and_o both_o kind_n see_v sir_n humphrey_n how_o you_o can_v get_v out_o of_o this_o brake_n now_o for_o valencia_n your_o three_o author_n who_o you_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n say_v that_o he_o affirm_v the_o same_o to_o wit_n with_o hales_n and_o vazq_n let_v any_o man_n see_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o play_v he_o a_o lindy-tricke_n for_o these_o be_v his_o word_n in_o the_o very_a same_o chapter_n by_o you_o cite_v 6._o val_n de_fw-fr leg_n us._n euchar._n cap._n 6._o hoc_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la tam_fw-la est_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la fructuosum_fw-la &_o efficax_n in_o altera_fw-la specie_fw-la quam_fw-la in_o utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la this_o sacrament_n be_v of_o itself_o as_o fruitful_a and_o effectual_a in_o one_o kind_n as_o in_o both_o and_o so_o your_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n be_v as_o safe_a and_o comfortable_a as_o your_o citation_n of_o this_o author_n be_v true_a 6._o the_o five_o of_o your_o safe_a and_o profitable_a point_n be_v of_o your_o communion_n of_o priest_n and_o people_n together_o the_o safety_n you_o prove_v not_o by_o any_o thing_n but_o your_o own_o bare_a word_n for_o the_o profitableness_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n indeed_o you_o prove_v it_o be_v more_o when_o the_o people_n communicate_v with_o the_o priest_n out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n harding_n and_o bellarmine_n but_o sir_n that_o be_v not_o the_o controversy_n between_o you_o and_o uâ—_n but_o this_o whether_o the_o priest_n may_v not_o say_v mass_n unless_o he_o have_v some_o to_o communicate_v with_o he_o or_o even_o whether_o it_o be_v more_o profitableness_n for_o the_o priest_n that_o he_o have_v some_o to_o communicate_v with_o he_o or_o even_o whether_o the_o sacrifice_n be_v less_o perfect_a in_o itself_o in_o that_o case_n or_o not_o of_o this_o you_o say_v not_o a_o word_n as_o neither_o do_v your_o author_n which_o you_o bring_v for_o they_o speak_v only_o of_o the_o fruit_n which_o will_v redound_v to_o the_o people_n which_o we_o grant_v to_o be_v great_a when_o they_o communicate_v with_o the_o priest_n then_o when_o not_o but_o of_o the_o form_n or_o matter_n of_o controversy_n they_o all_o determine_v absolute_o against_o you_o their_o whole_a drift_n in_o those_o place_n be_v none_o other_o but_o to_o disprove_v you_o as_o may_v easy_o appear_v to_o any_o man_n that_o will_v look_v in_o they_o and_o i_o have_v partly_o show_v before_o