Selected quad for the lemma: tradition_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
tradition_n	bring_v	church_n	scripture_n	2,009	5	5.9771	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A90276	Of schisme the true nature of it discovered and considered, with reference to the present differences in religion. / By John Owen D.D.	Owen, John, 1616-1683.	1657 (1657)	Wing O780; Thomason E1664_2; ESTC R203088	121,002	281

state of things unsuited to those of old Apostacy from the Vnity of the Church Catholick charged on the Romanists Their claime to be that Church sanguinary false Their plea to this purpose considered The blasphemous mannagement of their plea by some of late The whole dissolved Their inferences on their plea practically prodigious Their Apostacy proved by instances Their grand Argument in this cause proposed Answered Consequences of denying the Roman Church to be a Church of Christ weighed LEt us see now what as to conscience can be charged on us Protestants I meane who are all concerned herein as to the breach of this union The Papists are the persons that undertake to mannage this Charge against us To lay aside the old Plea subesse Romano Pontifici and all those ●eats wherewith they jugled when the whole world sa●e in darknesse which they doe not now use at the entrance of their charge The summe of what they insist upon firstly is The Catholick Church is intrusted with the interpretation of the Scriptures and declaration of the Truths therein contained which being by it so declared the not receiving of them implicitely or explicitely that is the disbelieving of them as so proposed and declared cuts off any man from being a member of the Church Christ himselfe having said that he that heares not the Church is to be as an Heathen man or Publican which Church they are that is certaine It is all one then what we believe or doe not believe seeing that we believe not all that the Catholick Church proposeth to be believed and what we doe believe we believe not on ha● account Ans Their insisting on this plea so much as they doe is sufficient to evince their despair of making good by instance our faylure in respect of the way and principles by which the unity of the visible Church may be lost or broken Faile they in this they are gone and if they carrie this plea we are all at their disposall The summe of it is the Catholick Church is intrusted with sole power of delivering what is truth and what is necessary to be believed This Catholick Church is the Church of Rome that is the Pope or what else may in any juncture of time serve their interest But as it is known 1. We deny their Church as it is stiled to be the Catholick Church or as such any part of it as particular Churches are called or esteemed So that of all men in the World they are least concerned in this Assertion Nay I shall goe farther Suppose all the members of the Roman Church to be found in the Faith as to all necessary Truths and no way to prejudice the Advantages and priviledges which acc●●e to them by the profession thereof whereby the severall individualls of it would be true members of the Catholick Church yet I should not only deny it to be the Catholick Church but also abideing in its present Order and Constitution being that which by themselves it is supposed to be to be any particular Church of Christ at all as wanting many things necessary to constitute them so and having many things destructive utterly to the very Essence and being of that Order that Christ hath appointed in his Churches The best plea that I know for their Church state is that Antichrist sits in the Temple of God Now although we might justly omit the Examination of this pretence untill those who are concerned in it will professedly owne it as their plea yet as it lyes in our way in the thoughts of some I say to it that I am not so certaine that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to sit in the Temple of God seeing a Learned man long agoe thought it rather to be a setting up against the Temple of God Aug. de Civitate Dei lib. 10. cap. 59. But grant the sence of the expression to be as it 's usually received it imports no more but that the man of sinne shall set up his power against God in the midst of them who by their outward visible profession have right to be called his Temple which intitles him and his Copartners in Apostacy to the name of the Church as much as changing of mony and selling of Cattle were Ordinances of God under the old Temple when by some mens practising of them in it it was made a den of Theeves 2. Though as to the plea of them and their interest with whom we have to do we have nothing requiring our Judgements in the case yet ex abundanti we adde that we deny that by the will and appointment of Jesus Christ the Catholick Church visible is in any sence intrusted with such an interpretation of Scripture as that her declaration of Truth should be the measure of what should be believed or that as such it is intrusted with any power of that nature at all or is inabled to propose a Rule of Faith to be received as so proposed to the most contemptible individuall in the world or that it is possible that any voice of it should be heard or understood but only this I believe the necessary saving Truths contained in the Scripture or that it can be consulted with all or is as such intrusted with any Power Authority or Jurisdiction nor shall we ever consent that the Office and Authority of the Scriptures be actually taken from it on any pretence As to that of our Saviour of telling the Church it is so evidently spoken of a particular Church that may immediately be consulted in case of difference between Brethren and does so no way relate to the businesse in hand that I shall not trouble the Reader with a debate of it But doe we not receive the Scripture it selfe upon the Authority of the Church I say if we did so yet this concernes not Rome which we account no Church at all That we have received the Scripture from the Church of Rome at first that is so much as the Book its selfe is an intollerable figment But it is worse to say that we receive and own their Authority from the Authority of any Church or all the Churches in the World It is the expression of our Learned Whitaker Qui Scriptur●●● non credit esse divinam nisi propter Ecclesiae vocem Christianus non est To deny that the Scripture hath immediate force and efficacy to evince its own Authority is plainly to deny them on that account being brought unto us by the providence of God wherein I comprize all subservient helps of humane Testimony we receive them and on no other But is not the Scripture to be interpreted according to the Tradition of the Catholick Church and are not those interpretations so made to be received I say among all the figments that these latter Ages have invented I shall adde amongst the true stories of Lucian there is not one more remote from Truth then this Assertion That all that any one Text of

Scripture may be interpreted according to the universall Tradition of the Catholick Church and be made appeare so to be any farther then that in Generall the Catholick Church hath not believed any such sence to be in any portion of Scripture which to receive were destructive of Salvation And therefore the Romanists tell us that the present Church that is theirs is the keeper and interpreter of these Traditions or rather that its Power Authority and Infability being the same that it hath been in former Ages what it determines is to be received to be the Tradition of the Catholick Church for the triall whereof whether it be so or no there is no rule but its own determination which if they can perswade us to acquiesce in I shall grant that they have acquired such an absolute dominion over Vs and our Faith that it is fit that we should be Soul and Body at their disposall It being then the work of the Scripture to propose the saving Truths of Christ the beliefe and profession whereof are necessary to make a man a member of the Church so as to make them of indispensable necessity to be received if they can from them convince us that we doe not believe and professe all every one of the Truths or Articles of Faith so necessary as expressed we shall fall down under the Authority of such conviction If not we professe our Consciences to be no more concerned in the Authority of their Church then we judge their Church to be in the priviledges of the Church Catholick But 2. It may be we are chargeable with manifesting some principles of Prophanenesse wherewith the beliefe of the Truth we professe hath an absolute inconsistency For those who are liable and obnoxious to this charge I say let them plead for themselves For let them professe what they will and cry out 10000 times that they are Christians I shall never acknowledge them for others then visible enemies of the Crosse Kingdome and Church of Christ Traytors and Rebells are not de facto Subjects of that King or Ruler in reference to whom they are so Of some who said they were Jewes Christ said they lyed and were not but the Synagogue of Satan Rev. 2 9. Though such as these say they are Christians I will be bold to say they lye they are not but slaves of Sathan Though they live within the Pale as they call it of the Church the Catholick Church being an inclosure as to profession not place yet they are not within it nor of it any more then a Jew or Mahumetan within the same precinct suppose they have been Baptized yet if their belly be their God and their lives dedicated to Satan all the Advantage they have thereby is that they are Apostates and Renegadoes That we have added any thing of our owne making profession of any thing in Religion absolutely destructive to the fundamentalls we professe I know not that we are accused seeing our crime is asserted to consist in detracting not adding Now unlesse we are convinced of failing on one of these three accounts we shall not at all question but that we abide in the unity of the visible Catholick Church It is the common cry of the Romanists that we are Schismaticks Why so because we have separated our selves from the communion of the Catholick Church what this Catholick is and how little they are concerned in it hath been declared How much they have prevailed themselves with ignorant soules by this plea we know Nor was any other successe to be expected in respect of many whom they have wonne over to themselves who being persons ignorant of the righteousnesse of God and the power of the Faith they have professed not having had experience of communion with the Lord Jesus under the conduct of them have been upon every provocation and temptation a ready prey to deceivers Take a little view of their late Proselyts and it will quickly appeare what little cause they have to boast in them With some by the craft and folly of some Relations they are admitted to treat when they are drawing to their dissolution These for the most part having been persons of dissolute and profligate lives never having tasted the power of any Religion whatever they have professed in their weakenesse and disturbed dying thoughts may be apt to receive any impression that with confidence and violence is imposed upon them Besides it is a farre easier proposall to be reconciled to the Church of Rome and so by Purgatorie to get to Heaven then to be told of Regeneration Repentance Faith and the Covenant of Grace things of difficulty to such poor Creatures Others that have been cast down from their hopes and Expectations or out from their enjoyments by the late revolution in these Nations have by their discontent or necessity made themselves an easie prey to their zeale What hath been the residue of thir Proselytes What one who hath ever manifested himselfe to share in the power of our Religion or was not prepared by principles of superstition almost as deep as their own have they prevailed on But I shall not farther insist on these things To returne Our communion with the visible Catholick Church is in the unity of the faith only The breach of this union and therein a relinquishment of the communion of the Church lyes in a relinquishment of or some opposition to some or all of the saving necessary truths of the Gospell Now this is not Schisme but Heresie or Apostacy or it is done by an open profligatenesse of life so that indeed this charge is nothing at all to the purpose in hand though through Grace in a confidence of our own innocency we are willing to debate the guilt of the crime under any name or title whatever Unto what hath been spoken I shall only adde the removeall of some common objections with a recharge on them with whom principally we have as yet had to do come to the last thing proposed The case of some of old who were charged with Schisme for separating from the Catholick Church on an account wholy and cleerly distinct from that of a departure from the faith is an instance of the judgement of antiquity lying in an opposition to the notion of departure from the Church now delivered Doth not Augustine Doe not the rest of his Orthodox contemporaries charge the Donatists with Schisme because they departed from the Catholick Church And doth not the charge rise up with equall efficacy against you as them At least doth it not give you the nature of Schisme in another sence then is by you granted The Reader knows sufficiently if he hath at al taken notice of these things whereto find this cloud scattered without the least annoyance or detriment to the Protestant cause or of any concerned in that name however by lesser differences diversified among themselves I shall not repeate what by others hath been