Selected quad for the lemma: tradition_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
tradition_n	authority_n	doctrine_n	scripture_n	2,840	5	5.9217	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A45831	Rome is no rule, or, An answer to an epistle published by a Roman Catholic who stiles himself Cap. Robert Everard and may serve for an answer to two Popish treatises, the one entituled The question of questions, and the other Fiat lux, out of which books the arguments urged in the said epistle against the authority of the Scriptures and the infallibility of the Roman Church are collected : in which answer, the authority of the Scriptures is vindicated and the arguments for the Roman infallibility refuted / by J.I.	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1664 (1664)	Wing I1103B; ESTC R41015	38,546	134

your negative positions viz. That the private spirit Reason and Scripture is not the sole Judge you come to infer from the whole That the Catholick Church is this judge and that God had alwayes such a Church This you endeavour to make good by saying God had such a Church Two Thousand Years before any Scripture was written And to demonstrate this you say Circumcision was brought in by Abraham and practised by the Church without Scripture to try it by c. I Answer first If the Pope will bring in any new Law or Canon with that Authority as Abraham brought in Circumcision we will believe him without a Council or desiring him to prove it by Scripture But Secondly It seems here is some other Rule and Guide beside Reason Scripture the private Spirit and the Church for here is no Council to decree Circumcision nor private spirit to suggest it nor reason to contrive it But here is God appearing to Abraham and commanding it by an immediate voice from Heaven So that this was Gods way of guiding his People then and not by General Councils and of this opinion is Chrysostome Hom. 1. in Mat. who conceives God might use other means and this agrees with that saying Heb. 1.1 God in sundry times and in diverse manners spake to our Fathers by the Prophets Lastly If the Scriptures are lyable to many exceptions as you say by which they are rendred uncapable of being our infallible Guide then I demand how you know what was transacted in the World the first 2000 Years and whether there was any Church at all in those times If you say you are by the Hystory of the Scriptures guided to believe what was done 2000 Years before the first Pen-man was born I demand how you can believe this since they are so fallibly and subject to so many exceptions as you say But further may I not with more certitude believe what Moses and all the Pen-men of Holy Scriptures writ of things they were eye-witnesses of then you can be of what Moses writ the first 2000 Years that were expired before he was born You come in pag. 27 to a second Argument Namely That the Church of the Jews were so the Jews I suppose you mean an infallible guide after the Scriptures were written and for this purpose you cite Deut. 17.8 The man that will do presumptiously and will not hearken to the voice of the Priest or unto the Judge that man shall dye I answer The Scripture saith Pro. 16.10 A divine sentence is in the lips of the King his mouth transgresseth not in judgement Doth it follow from hence that all Kings are infallible in their judgments But how and by what Rule were these priests to judge whom the People were to obey upon pain of death Ezekiel tells us Chap. 44.24 And in Controversie they shall stand in judgement and they shall judge it according to my Judgement they shall keep my Lawes and Statutes in all their Assemblies and hollow my Sabbaths But did these Priests and Judges always judge according to Gods Law were they always infallible in their Sentences How comes it to pass then that Aaron sinned in hearkening to the voice of the People when they required him to make them a Calf Exod. 32.2 and v. 7. It is said They had corrupted themselves Where was this Churches infallibility at this time and v. 8. They turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them And again where was the infallibility of the Priest when he appointed them v. 3. To break off their earing which were in their eares to make a Calf Surely in this they were an excellent type of the Romane Church who were quickly corrupted from their Primitive Purity Again Ezek. 22.26 It is said The Priests have violated my Law they have prophaned my Holy things they have put no difference between the Holy and Prophane neither have they shewed difference between the Clean and the unclean and have hid their eyes from my Sabbath and I am prophaned among them Neither was this the fault or a few but the Text tells us v. 30. That God sought for a Man among them that should make up the hedge and stand in the gap before him for the land but he found none Where was the Priest and the infallible church all this while whom the People were to hear upon paine of death So that the Text by you cited Deut. 17. is abused for they had plain Laws written which were to be a guide to Priest and People which if the Priest did not judge accordingly as many times they did not the People were not to hear them Your other Text is Mat. 23.2 3. the Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses Chair all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe that observe and do I Answer If by sitting in Moses's chair you understand their teaching the People according to Moses Law we are of your mind for so it appears in the forecited Text in Ezekiel and in all such things the People were to hearken to them But if by sitting in Moses Chair you understand their Publick Authority and that whatsoever they so taught was infallible This I deny for they did sometimes like the Pope Mark 7.7 Teach for Doctrines the Commandments of men and v. 8. Laid aside the Commandments of God as you do the Scriptures that they might hold the traditions of men and v. 13. Made the Word of God of none effect by their traditions But if the Church of the Jews which was represented in the great Synedrion could not erre then it followeth that all Christian Religion must be discarded For if she was infallible in that judgment she made of Christ and his Doctrine then there remains nothing but that we renounce both him and it and turn either Jews or Pagans But lastly It appears that Christ himself had not this opinion of the infallibility of the Jewish Church which you have because then he should have referred all he taught to be decided by them whether it were true or no. But instead thereof he appeals to the Scriptures and offers Himself and his Doctrine as we do at this day to stand or fall by their verdict and to their Authority of the Church he opposeth that of the Scripture to which he knew the other ought to give place John 5.39.46 Mat. 22.42 43 44. Luke 24.27 You come in the third place in p. 27.28 to prove that there shall be an infallible Church under the New Testament your Texts are Esay 2.23 3. Esay 35.8.54.3.13 17. Esay 59.21 Esay 60.10 12. To which I answer First Why are these Texts brought to prove an infallible Church when the Texts themselves you say are no infallible guide how then can they guide us to your infallible Church But 2. How doth it appear that these Texts are to be applied to the Church of the New Testament Much less doth it appear that they are to be applyed to your Roman Church 3

Rome is no Rule OR AN ANSWER To an Epistle published by a Roman Catholick who stiles himself Cap. ROBERT EVERARD And may serve for an Answer to two Popish Treatises the one Entituled The Question of Questions and the other Fiat Lux out of which Books the Arguments urged in the said Epistle against the Authority of the Scriptures and the pretended Infallibility of the Roman Church are Collected In which Answer the authority of the Scriptures is vindicated and the Arguments for the Romish Infallibility Refuted By J. I. Prov. 8.17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him Job 6.25 How forcible are right words but what do your arguings reprove LONDON Printed by T. M. for Livewel Chapman at his Shop in Exchange Alley in Cornbil 1664. TO THE READER Reader SInce the Word of God which he hath exalted above all his Name to be as a light shining in a dark place and as a Rule try Doctrines whether they are of Heaven or of Men is by Roman Catholicks cried down as altogether insufficient for that purpose by reason whereof they have and do daily beguile unstable Souls I shall therefore as a preface to this ensuing Discourse lay before you the Judgement of Christ and his Apostles and diverse of the Antient Fathers who trode in their paths touching the Authority and Vsesulness of the Holy Scriptures and compare them with the Judgements of the Romane Catholicks that so trying all things thou mayest hold first that which is best In the first place it was the Judgement of Christ whose Judgement is believed by all Christians to be Infallible That Men ought to search the Scriptures Joh. 5.39 And that the reason why the Jews did erre in the Doctrine of the Resurrection was because they did not know the scripture Mark 12.24 He judged that the reason why the Jews did not believe him was because they did not believe the Scriptures Jo. 5.46 He judged the Scriptures to be Armour of proof against the Devil Mat. 4.6 7. He confutes his Adversaries by them Joh. 8.17 Mat. 12.4 5. This was also the judgement and practise of the Apostles therefore they commend the Bareans for searching the Scriptures Acts 17.11 Hence it was that they mightily convinced the Jews shewing by the Scriptures That Jesus was the Christ Acts 18.28 The Apostle informs Timothy That they were able to make wise to salvation and that they were profitable for Doctrine for Reproof for Correction and for Instruction in Righteousnesse 2 Tim. 3.15 16. And that if we fulfil the Royal law according to the scriptures we shall do well Jam. 2.8 That they were written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world are come 1 Cor. 10 11. And that they were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have Hope Rom. 15.4 This was also the judgment of the Fathers who followed the footsteps of Christ and his Apostles St. Augustine saith upon the 8. Psalm That God hath bowed down the scriptures to the capacity of Babes and Sucklings that when proud men will not speak to their capacity himself might And again the same Authour saith That our Faith would reel and totter if the Authority of the scriptures did not stand fast de Doct. Christ Lib. 1. Cap. 37. St. Chrysost saith The scriptures are easie to be understood and are exposed to the capacity of every Servant and Plow-Man and Widow and Boy and therefore God Penned the scriptures by the hand of Publicans Fisher-men Tent-makers Neat-heards and Unlearned men that none of the simple people might have any excuse to keep them from reading Hom. 1. in Mat. Again be saith That whatsoever is required to salvation is all set down in scriptures neither is there any thing wanting there that is needfull for mans salvation Hom. 41. in Mat. Justin Martyr saith That we should hear the words of the scriptures which are so plain and easie that they need no Exposition but to be rehearsed Dialogue cum Triphon 213. St. Hierome saith Whatsoever things men find and feign without the Authority and Testimony of the scriptures as if they were from Apostolical Tradition are smitten by the sword of God see Comment in Hagg. Cap. 2. On the other hand the Roman Catholicks say The scriptures are no certain Rule no Infallible guide and that all things necessary to salvation are not contained in them See the Books Entituled the Question of Questions and Fiat Lux and the Epistle Published by Everard to which this Answer is Directed They forbid the People to use and search them See Everards Epistle pa. 14. He saith Those words in the 5. of John are so far from being a Command to search the scriptures that they rather seem a reprehension to all that have such a conceit of them Again they say The scriptures are fitted to the time and are variably understood the sense whereof being one while this and again another while that according as it pleaseth the Church to change her judgement See Cusan Ep. 2.37 Again The Bishop of Toledo's putting forth the Bible in divers Languages puts the Latine Translation in the midst between the Hebrew and Greek and then saith the Greek and Hebrew he placed of either side as two Thieves and the Latine between them as Jesus Christ Others of them call the Scriptures a nose of wax that may be writhed any way and a dumb Judge c. Now whoever shall but impartially lay the judgment of these men concerning the Scriptures in the ballance of the Sanctuary and compare them with what Christ his Apostles and their followers judged of them may easily see that there is more excellency in the gleanings of the Scriptures then in the full Vintage of the Pope and all his Cardinals whose Vines are like those of Sodom by reason whereof the Nations have been intoxicated and made drunk with the wine of her fornication For if they were not drunk they would never quit both Scripture and Reason and the Spirit of God all that by which they become both Men and Christians to hearken to the voice of the Romish Charmers who rather then they will want water to carry Proselytes to the Romish Sea care not though they open the flood-gates of Atheism and Antiscripturism upon the Christian World For who seeth not but he that is willing to be blind that the arguments levied by them for wounding the reputation of Scriptures are as a sharp sword ready to pass through the reins of Christianity it self For the prevention whereof I have published this ensuing Answer which I do desire may be impartially considered and the Lord give you understanding in all things and open your understanding that you may understand the Scriptures that so taking to your selves the swords of the Spirit which is the word of God you may be able to resist all the adversaries of your pretious souls who daily seek to make

mouth of the Pope or Chief Pastour then I querie whether it may not be possible for him to erre since many Popes have been Hereticks and have taught contrary to the Law of God as that Pope did that told King Henry the 8th he might marry his Brothers Wife Sixthly But suppose the Pope did not erre in giving me the true sense of Councils and their Decrees then I querie How every private person shall have his judgment informed in the Truth without going to Rome Seventhly If you say he may be resolved at home by the Pastours in several places then I querie whether those Pastours may not erre since it is manifest that the several Pastours and Churches of Asia did erre and then how can the members of this Church be sure they are under an Infallible conduct to Eternal Life and that these Pastours teach according to the Doctrine of the Infallible Church VIII Since you say that General Councils Lawfully Called by the Pope their chief astour cannot erre I querie How I shall be infallibly assured when Councils are so called Since sometimes the Pope may come in by Simony and Usurpation as Boniface the 3 did and sometimes be a Heritick as Lyberius was who subscribed the Excommunication of Athanasius in which cases they ceasing to be lawfull Popes I would then know how I can be sure of a lawful Council IX Since there must be alway a lawfull succession of Popes to make a lawfull succession of True Ministers How shall I know infallibly that the Minister that I heat did lawfully so succeed and this I would know because if he be not a lawfull Minister I may not lawfully hear him And since that sometimes Hereticks have been Popes and sometimes the Chair hath been Usurped and once a Woman was Pope and sometimes there hath been two at once How shall I that am to hear a private Pastour know whether his Ordination did succeed from a lawfull Pope and not from some of these X. How shall I know what Council I may infallibly adhere unto since one Council hath opposed another and some cleave to one Council and some to another the Roman Church they test in the Niceen Council the Greek Church they rest in the Council of Arminum both which are contrary to the other how shall any one be assured of the truth of all those things with a divine certitude And yet you make the world believe that all your wayes are so plain that a fool cannot erre in them and that the Scriptures are doubtfull guides when no Religion in the World is perplexed with more doubts then yours XI If your Roman Church be this Infallible Church and all her Doctrines Infallible then I querie if it be not sinfull to doubt of the Truth of what she teacheth XII If it be not a sin to doubt of what your Church teacheth then why do you blame us for questioning your Infallibility XIII But if it be a sin to question the Churches Doctrine then how came the Baraeans to be commended for searching the Scriptures to see if what Paul preached was so or not and whether might not their searching the Scriptures have run them upon all those inconveniencies of mistaking by false Pointings corrupted Copies false Interpretations to the multiplying of Sects and Hereticks if it might why are they commended for searching XIV How can the reason of the Jews erring be because they did not know the Scriptures if the knowledge of them would not have been a sufficient guide to the Truth XV. But if you shall say we cannot know the Scriptures but by the true Church then I querie how shall I know the true Church since there are as many different opinions about which is the true Church as there is about which is the true sense of Scriptures XVI If you say the Scriptures decide the question and guide us to the true Church then whether this be not to speak Daggers to prove the knowledge of the Scriptures by the Church and the knowledge of the Church by the Scriptures XVII But if you say we know the Church by universal Tradition then I querie whether your Church can be so known since a great part of the Christian World hath and doth disown her witness the Greek Church together with most of the Churches in Europe XVIII Whether then you can shew such an universal Tradition for your Pope and Church as we can do for the Scriptures to which we do well to take heed as to a light that shineth in a dark place till the day dawn and the Day-star arise in our hearts XIX Where was the Infallibility of the Roman Church in the time of Athanasius when he complained totus mundus Arianizat that the whole world Ariantized XX. I demand Where will be the Visibility and Infallibility of your Roman Church in the time of the great Antichrist which your Rhemish Annotators say shall come towards the end of the World and abolish the publick Exercise of all Religion wherein consisteth the worship of the true God and shall pull down all kind of Religious worship save that which shall be done to himself alone See Rhem. Annot on 2 Thess 2.4 How will your Church appear conspicuously and universally to be a guide to Fools infallibly in those days FINIS