Selected quad for the lemma: tradition_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
tradition_n	authority_n	doctrine_n	scripture_n	2,840	5	5.9217	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19150	Epphata to F.T., or, The defence of the Right Reuerend Father in God, the Lord Bishop of Elie, Lord High-Almoner and Priuie Counsellour to the Kings Most Excellent Maiestie concerning his answer to Cardinall Bellarmines apologie, against the slaunderous cauills of a namelesse adioyner, entitling his booke in euery page of it, A discouerie of many fowle absurdities, falsities, lyes, &c. : wherein these things cheifely are discussed, (besides many other incident), 1. The popes false primacie, clayming by Peter, 2. Invocation of saints, with worship of creatures, and faith in them, 3. The supremacie of kings both in temporall and ecclesiasticall matters and causes, ouer all states and persons, &c. within their realmes and dominions / by Dr. Collins ...	Collins, Samuel, 1576-1651.; Bellarmino, Roberto Francesco Romolo, Saint, 1542-1621. Apologia.	1617 (1617)	STC 5561; ESTC S297	540,970	628

your worthy predecessor or if you will progenitor into your world of Anticks scoffs at shoomakers and beere-brewers and such kind of people that they should be thought Martyrs fit for a Calender or able to discern what faith they died for You heare what Theodoret here not onely confesses but vaunts of Of such men and women consists the Quire of Martyrs And what saies the Apostle Non multi nobiles c. Or what kind of trade is contemned in Scripture towards the advancing of Christs Gospel fishing tanning weauing tent-making and such like Ecclesia Christi de vili plebecula congregata est sayes S. Hierome lib. 3. Comm. in Epist ad Gal. And Onesimus the fugitiue Baronius writ it if I remember succeeded the Apostle S. Iohn in his Bishopricke of Ephesus But Parsons hath answered this by this time and many other matters I vrge him no farther § 24. Onely take you heede how you beleeue the Saints as here you seeme to doe to vnderstand the praiers that are made vnto them because now and then the desire is graunted Consider yee not what collusions may be among deuills And Audit ad voluntatem cùm non ad salutem euen God himselfe as S. Austen teaches which your Syluester with others obserue out of him v. Oratio He heares vs to our will when not to our weale Conceditque iratus quae negaret propitius saith the same father And grants in anger what he would deny in loue Neither is the deuill the better loued for speeding in his suite to goe into the swine you may be sure Yet the deuill begd rightly you worse then he at a wrong dore Neither is the Bishop to bee blamed for searching this question of Inuocation by reasons as S. Hierome saies of Quadratus that he wrote a booke in defence of our relligiō plenum fidei rationis since you confesse your selfe that it is persuadeable but by inducements namely what others haue obserued found and experienced and is not necessary to saluation numb 29. Why then should you shunne the tryall of reason To omit that as S. Austen and your Schoole hath it In faith are many things aboue reason but none against it § 25. The reuelation of vicissitude or per interualla that Saints may haue as Elizeus of Naaman and Gehezi and the like is not enough to auouch praying to them It must be permanentiae it must be spiritus manens non transiens Else we may pray to them when they heare vs not and when nothing is reuealed This man hath prayed to me and I was not aware or Dominus abscondidit à me as the Prophet said So shall we be sure that they doe not euer heare vs but whether they doe euer heare vs or no we shall not be sure Can there be any thing more disparageable to a poore suiter then this This to your numb 46. § 26. Whereas you say in the 47. that they know our prayers by the relation of Angels First how shall the Angels know them to relate By reuelation from God you will say But he that reueales to the Angels might reueale to the Saints eâdem operâ What needs this reuelation then Sic fieri per plura quod potuit per pauciora Secondly who makes that the Angels worke to be offerers of our prayers to the Saints in heauen Is this worthy of them Is this a fit worke to imploy Angels about Why not rather to my selfe saies the Angel And surely if this be once entertained that the Angels acquaint the Saints with our prayers which else they should not know but for them will not the Pagan opinion which S. Ambrose hissed out and you with him euen now returne that God also should be ignorant of our affaires vnlesse the Angels reuealed them For you make the Angels to offer our prayers to God too A iust reward of your peruerting so the Apocalyps c. 5. v. 8. § 27. To your 48. 49. c. Numbers That Church-custome determines diuerse things without Scripture I answer breifly they must be things of a lighter nature then the substantialls of Gods seruice as is our prayer to him or whomsoeuer you will thrust into his roome No praescription can robbe him of his honour Homines nihil vsu capere possunt à dijs immortalibus And againe among the same Laws as I rememember Aduersus hostem aeternae authoritas but maximè Dei Diuina sibi vendicantem Your owne Genebrard vpon that verse of the 119. Psal LEGEM tuam dilexi INIQVOS odio habui that is haereticos saith he or such as departing from the lawe of God either fall into heresie or are not farre from it So much it concernes vs to sticke close to the Law 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as S. Basil wills and in another place he makes a Law to himselfe to endure all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all formes of death rather then to forfeit one syllable of diuine writ beeing tempted to dispense at the small things of Gods Law as was pretended at least by the wily Courtier with no small offers The very place of Esay that sends vs ad legem ad testimonium barres vs from looking towards the departed though they be Saints It were endles to reckon vp all the fathers authorities in detestation of such traditions as accrue besides the word of God and how they reduce all controuersies of this nature to no other touch-stone then the holy Scriptures decision Out of THESE BOOKES saith Constantine let vs try the Question meaning the Bibles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let the Scripture be Vmpire saith Basil ad Eustathium S. Chrysostome Tom. 4. edit Eton per D. H. Savile 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The doctrine of holy Scriptures is the inheritance of our Fathers Euen as we say that the Common Law is euery mans inheritance because it tries titles by that we hold Dionysius therfore most properly cals it substantiam fidei the substance or liuelihood of our faith suppose that by which it is fedde as you would say and nourished and maintained Likewise Thy testimonies haue I claimed as mine HERITAGE for euer saies the Prophet Dauid in the Psalme before named So as the King you see consists by the tillage of this field and they are his for euer euen as in the nature of an inheritance as was before said Apollinaris in Eusebius l. 5. c. 1. Bishop of Hierapolis writing to a friend of his Avircius Marcellus about the heresie of the Cataphrygians alleadges this as a cause of his slow setting forward to write euen against those heretiques ne quicquam apponere viderer Euangelico verbo noui testamenti least writing so much as one line after the Canon of holy Scripture he might seem to haue a mind to adde to her most compleat sufficiencie S. Gregorie also the great lib. 1. Epist 24. ad quatuer Patriarchas saith that as the Priest in old times

manner of way viz. by sacrifice or as if in sacrifices themselues some rites were not arbitrary as he instances himselfe about feasts and holy daies in his numb 26. so the substance be vncorrupted or as if other things being precisely ordered by Gods mouth this were not a generall recapitulation of all the rest as too long to be repeated in particular that nothing in Gods worship must be done besides his word I meane for the substantialls And Quod de vno dico de omnibus intelligite as our Sauiour to his Disciples what I say to you I say to all So what of one that of all The Scripture is full of the like caueats euery where against your patchings to the word Turne neither to the right hand nor to the left hand Which Bellarmine saith is all one with the former To the Law and the Testimonie Esay 8. 20. Gods workes are perfect adde not to them nor detract not from them no more then from Lysias his Orations nay much lesse where one syllable being peruerted all the whole frame falls to ground His law is the truth yea and the whole truth Whatsoeuer is without that is but meere fables Iniqui narrauerunt mihi fabulas The vngodly told me fables but not according to thy Law Therefore fables because not according to thy Law And a hundreth such like which no doubt bind vs to a precise adherence to Gods will and sure reuealed in his word euen vs I say of the new Testament not onely them of the old see Apocal. 22. 18. yet for this the Bishop is a Iew with this gentleman a reuiuer of Moses ordinances and I know not what § 22. Though more particularly I might reply to his fond exception vnto the place aforenamed out of Deuter. 12. which he saith was only a rule for sacrifice that the same precept was giuen afore euen Deut. 4. and without any mention of sacrifices sometimes applyed to all the commandements ver 2. againe ver 5. againe ver 8. particularly against idolatry ver 15. to which this of praying to Saints is thought to be reducible Therefore Bellarmine answers that place another way lib. 4. De verbo Dei cap. 10. Not that we must doe no more then is commanded vs but in a thing commaunded no more for substance then the commaundement importeth Which is enough for vs as I haue often said that God therefore is not to be prayed vnto by the mediation of Saints vnles he had commaunded it because that is not so much an appertinence or a bare forme as a wrong seruice a substance by it selfe § 23. Absurdly in his 26. number is the multiplication of certaine festiualls in which no new worship of God was erected compared with the setting vp of tutelary Saints now a daies and praying to them that of Ieremie beeing verified of the Popish Church Numerus divorum secundum numerum civitatum yea capitum The number of their Saints is after the number of their cities yea verily their persons § 24. A new deuice in the 28. number that though it were true as the Bishop affirmeth that we may not depart one inch from Gods prescript and will yet the will of God reacheth further then his written word Let him shew that this holds concerning the substance of Gods seruice we contend not with him for minutiae for such accidents as may adesse and abesse saith Porphyrie without corruption of the maine To place a Saint in Gods throne to addresse our worship to him to poure out our heart and conscience into his lap to submit vnto him by prayer and deuotion is no such pettie thing whatsoeuer hee imagines but toucheth the foundations Where this is offered strange fire is offred vnles God authorize it § 25. To the place of Chrysostome vpon that text of the Apostle Tenete traditiones 2. Thess 2. eâdem fide digna sunt tam illa quàm ista No doubt whatsoeuer the Apostles deliuered either by word or writing and they might deliuer by word what they did not by writing as long as they were points of meaner nature especially some of them that wrote nothing at all I say whatsoeuer the Apostles deliuered no doubt but all deserued credit and credit alike ratione annuntiantium in regard of their persons which were farre from lying but not as to force vs to the like obligation of beleeuing and crediting them in the way of saluation or to eternall life And doe ye thinke we could muster no authorities of Fathers if the time would permit or we were so disposed to shew that all is contained in Scripture which we are either to practise or beleeue as by necessitie of commandement and how that entring into that Sanctuarie the Sanctuarie of Scripture and reuelation from aboue we may be instructed and certified about any points sufficiently As Rebecca to the Oracle when there was strife in her wombe so we in controuersies The Scriptures are called Oracles Rom. 3. I am wiser then my teachers saith he but how by studying thy Law 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are able to make thee wise and wise to saluation spoken of Scripture againe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the man of God may be perfect in all things Perfect without traditions 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I deliuered what I receiued S. Paul goes no farther 1. Cor. 15. And there a point recorded and written in Scripture as the doctrine of the Lords Supper is comprehended vnder 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and made a Tradition All Traditions therefore you see are not vnwritten but the tradition is to be spurned at that descendeth not from Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Athanasius one for many Oratione contra Gentes about the very beginning 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To the declaration of truth vnlesse your Traditions be not of truth the guise of some is to delight in lies a iust reward for abhorring Scripture the rule of truth 2. Thess 2. to the declaration of truth saith Athanasius the holy Scriptures are sufficient and compleat And are the Scriptures so sufficient to beat downe Ethniques whome Athanasius there writes against and who care not for Scripture as is commonly seene and yet shall they not be sufficient to compound controuersies arising in the Church betweene Christian and Christian § 26. Theophylact makes them to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 10. Iohan. The Scriptures saith he giue resolution of all points Tertullian most excellently Apologetice contra Gentes Quò pleniùs impressiùs dispositiones eius voluntates adiremus instrumentum adiecit literaturae si quid velit de Deo inquirere inquisitum inuenire inuentum credere credito deseruire Search truth faith seruice all comes of Scripture And to the ende we might conferre with God more fully and more effectually or piercingly knowe his courses know his will instrumentum adiecit literaturae he hath giuen it vs in writing in

blacke and in white as you would say he hath recommended to vs the Scriptures Adde Hilarie in Psal 118. Octon Nun. Vt qui nocte egressus lucernam antefert quò pedem inferat contuetur atque ad singulos gressus lumine praeeunte sollicitus ita vnusquisque nostrum manens in se verbum dei in omnes operum processus tanquam lucernam praetendit And againe Vt eâ in omnem progressum cuiuscunque operationis vtamur Yea not onely operationis but cum aut agimus aut cogitamus aut loquimur And lastly Ad omnem animae nostrae pedem The summe is As a man will not set foote to ground in a darke night but hee will haue a candle borne before him so Gods word must be the direction to all our deeds yea deedes words and thoughts S. Chrysostome I graunt obserues in a cértaine place that it is a signe that God is not so well pleased with vs as of old because now he writes to vs rather then speakes and confers as he was wont Mittit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tanquam alienioribus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Tom. 5. And yet Orlandine the Iesuite in his Historia societatis Iesu lib. 1. num 27. saies of Ignatius their founder that he quamvis nulla extarent sacrarum monumenta ac testimonia literarum tamen fidei dogmata tenere rectè posset tradere c. Hee could deliuer points of faith though there were no Scripture well enough Doe you see the Iesuites drift to ease vs of Scripture by all meanes they can and they care not how either by dreaming of such a perfection and entirenes with God as needs no Scripture as hee said of Ignatius which is their pride or taking away that verie remaining token of Gods loue and manner of communicating himselfe vnto vs which is by writing as S. Chrysostome had said and argues nothing but their detestable crueltie and regardlesse behauiour towards the soules of Christian people But let vs heare you farther § 27. You say That Christ gaue no commaundement of writing No more hee doth of fasting perhaps of feeding our parents of waging warre for our countrie not literally not expressely but yet insinuatiuely and intentionally euen of lifting vp our enemies beast out of the ditch Wherof none is prescribed totidem verbis in our Sauiours doctrine yet all of force issuing and flowing from the same The word Honour in the 5. Commaundement how much doth it comprehend sustenance seruices reuerence c. So Preach the Gospel Predicate euerie way vijs modis by writing too by printing and publishing though long since deuised S. Gregory saith vpon the 9. of Ezech. as I take it that our Sauiour appeared with a writers Inke-horne at his backe cum atramentario adrenes because though hee writ nothing himselfe whilest he liued yet when his backe was turned and after his ascension into heauen the Apostles did for him by his appointment no doubt Yet to S. Iohn in the Reu. the spirit saith directly Scribe write Hee is bidden to write And if no prophecy S. Peter telling vs. 2. Pet. 1. 21. came at any time by the will of man but the men of God spake as they were lead by the Holy Ghost then were not written prophecies neither meerely depending of the will of men and of the election of the writers but they did as men of God that is seruants of God homines Dei euen herein also obeying his will and as the spirit carried them that is enioyned them Whosoeuer therfore wrote the Scriptures had a commaundement for writing them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I was necessitated to write Iude the 3. ver In the 4. to the Ephes Dedit quosdam Euangelistas quosdam pastores c. Some thinke Euangelistae are scriptores sacri codicis that the Euangelists there are the pen-men of holy writ and by that differ from others there mentioned It is said dedit Christ gaue them to the Church therefore he set them on worke For no man would take this honour to himselfe Heb. 5. No wise man at least not a lesser then this and therefore this much lesse to indite Scriptures which is one of the greatest of all The place to the Ephesians Aquine and certaine others so interpret as I haue said viz. Anselme Lyra yea and Canus himselfe l. 7. Locorum which is de Sanctorum authoritate c. 3. § 28. Now to Numb 32. Of the Baptisme of infants Haue we no Scripture for that Origen you say calls it an Apostolike tradition Yea he meanes that at least though it bee of Scripture too And there are scriptae traditiones as your owne place teacheth you 2. Thessal 2. Retinete traditiones hold fast the traditions siue per sermonem siue per epistolam whether by word or by writing commended to you Therefore traditions might be both S. Austen you alleadge de Genesi ad literam lib. 10. c. 23. that the baptisme of infants were not to be beleeued vnlesse it were an Apostolike tradition That is I suppose incident to one of the two kindes aforenamed and in a word if it disagreed from the Doctrine of the Apostles We haue the figure of the Law with some aduantage on our side There the knife here the water There within eight daies here within a competent space onely And yet they are no Iewes that obserue this analogie We read of whole houses baptized by the Apostles Lydiaes Stephanaes the Taylors c. Maruaile but some infants We haue Sinite parvulos venire ad me a modell and an idea of baptisme at the least For what doth Christ in baptisme but blesse them and release them from their sinnes For hic est qui baptizat it is Christ still that baptizeth and Eph. 5. he cleanseth the Church If regnum coelorum belong to such why not baptisme which is the doore of the kingdome of heauen If they be in foedere why not in tesserâ If they be borne holy no doubt in the right that they haue to baptisme For els holines proceedeth not from the wombe corruption rather Psal 51. Eph. 2. 3. Rom. 5. In quo omnes peccauerunt c. What should I say of that Baptizantes omnes nationes Matth. 28 among whome were infants We haue diuers other grounds if this were a time to open them But these are enough to shewe that we haue more then bare president and practise for our warrant in affoarding baptisme to Infants And if S. Austen against Cresconius saith that the determination of the Church is enough to stop the mouthes of such clamorous hereticks as the Donatists were about their rebaptization though Scripture were silent because the Church abhorreth it yet prayer to Saints is of another nature neither are you the Church and much lesse the Church sine vllâ ambiguitate as he there speakes nor can you shew this descending of the practise of the church from the first times fili