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tradition_n according_a church_n cit_v 23 3 15.3508 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A10345 The summe of the conference betwene Iohn Rainoldes and Iohn Hart touching the head and the faith of the Church. Wherein by the way are handled sundrie points, of the sufficiencie and right expounding of the Scriptures, the ministerie of the Church, the function of priesthood, the sacrifice of the masse, with other controuerises of religion: but chiefly and purposely the point of Church-gouernment ... Penned by Iohn Rainoldes, according to the notes set downe in writing by them both: perused by Iohn Hart, and (after things supplied, & altered, as he thought good) allowed for the faithfull report of that which past in conference betwene them. Whereunto is annexed a treatise intitled, Six conclusions touching the Holie Scripture and the Church, writen by Iohn Rainoldes. With a defence of such thinges as Thomas Stapleton and Gregorie Martin haue carped at therein. Rainolds, John, 1549-1607.; Hart, John, d. 1586. aut; Rainolds, John, 1549-1607. Sex theses de Sacra Scriptura, et Ecclesia. English. aut 1584 (1584) STC 20626; ESTC S115546 763,703 768

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god_n by_o inspiration_n and_o be_v ●8_o the_o word_n of_o god_n wherefore_o if_o you_o will_v take_v the_o gold_n of_o vincentius_n you_o must_v grant_v that_o scripture_n alone_o be_v sufficient_a to_o try_v the_o truth_n from_o error_n and_o to_o maintain_v the_o catholic_a faith_n against_o heresy_n hart._n you_o do_v not_o deal_v well_o in_o misreport_v so_o the_o word_n of_o vincentius_n for_o 1._o he_o set_v down_o two_o mean_n by_o the_o which_o we_o must_v fence_v our_o faith_n against_o the_o guile_n of_o heretic_n &_o eschew_v their_o snare_n autoritate_fw-la first_o by_o the_o authority_n say_v he_o of_o the_o scripture_n traditione_n then_o by_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n you_o leave_v out_o altogether_o that_o which_o he_o say_v of_o tradition_n and_o handle_v he_o in_o such_o sort_n as_o though_o he_o have_v speak_v for_o the_o scripture_n only_o rainoldes_n it_o be_v not_o your_o purpose_n i_o hope_v to_o beguile_v i_o by_o the_o colour_n of_o 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the_o word_n which_o your_o exposition_n force_v to_o point_n of_o faith_n christ_n himself_o appli_v it_o to_o precept_n of_o manner_n 19.17_o keep_v the_o commandment_n so_o pithy_a be_v the_o timber_n of_o which_o you_o frame_v your_o fancy_n though_o if_o we_o shall_v take_v it_o all_o as_o very_a sound_n and_o grant_v that_o christ_n mean_v observe_v and_o do_v of_o belief_n and_o life_n your_o purpose_n be_v not_o prove_v thereby_o for_o whether_o point_n of_o faith_n or_o precept_n of_o manner_n he_o will_v scribe_n and_o pharise_n to_o be_v obey_v no_o far_o then_o in_o what_o they_o teach_v out_o of_o the_o chair_n of_o moses_n hart._n the_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n be_v a_o great_a deal_n large_a you_o straiten_v they_o i_o know_v not_o how_o all_o thing_n whatsoever_o they_o shall_v say_v unto_o you_o observe_v you_o and_o do_v you_o mark_v he_o say_v all_o thing_n and_o he_o that_o say_v all_o thing_n do_v except_o nothing_o you_o except_v many_o rainoldes_n the_o lord_n do_v command_v the_o people_n of_o israel_n to_o repair_v in_o cause_n of_o difficulty_n and_o doubt_n to_o the_o priest_n and_o to_o the_o judge_n and_o ask_v and_o they_o shall_v show_v thou_o the_o sentence_n of_o judgement_n and_o 17.10_o thou_o shall_v observe_v to_o do_v according_a unto_o all_o that_o they_o shall_v teach_v thou_o these_o word_n thou_o shall_v observe_v to_o do_v according_a unto_o all_o that_o they_o shall_v teach_v thou_o the_o jew_n be_v accustom_v to_o allege_v common_o when_o they_o defend_v their_o fond_a tradition_n receive_v of_o their_o father_n and_o 17._o selomoh_n a_o rabbin_z who_o they_o make_v great_a account_n off_o do_v gloze_v they_o with_o this_o note_n thou_o must_v not_o decline_v from_o that_o which_o they_o shall_v tell_v thou_o 〈◊〉_d no_o not_o though_o they_o say_v that_o the_o right_a hand_n be_v the_o left_a and_o the_o left_a hand_n be_v the_o right_n a_o mighty_a spirit_n of_o error_n that_o have_v bewitch_v these_o man_n but_o you_o and_o your_o church_n do_v run_v apace_o after_o they_o perhaps_o you_o think_v you_o may_v be_v as_o bold_a for_o your_o pope_n as_o rabbi_n selomoh_n for_o their_o priest_n hart._n no_o sir._n for_o i_o grant_v that_o rabbi_n selomoh_n speak_v foolish_o which_o be_v plain_a by_o the_o place_n itself_o whereon_o he_o glose_v for_o the_o scripture_n say_v there_o thou_o shall_v do_v all_o that_o they_o shall_v teach_v thou_o according_a to_o the_o law_n or_o to_o edit_fw-la his_o law_n as_o we_o read_v it_o wherefore_o to_o do_v all_o that_o the_o priest_n teach_v be_v not_o mean_v of_o thing_n ungodlie_a or_o false_a but_o only_o true_a and_o consonant_a to_o the_o law_n of_o god_n rainoldes_n even_o so_o the_o scripture_n sarth_n here_o the_o scribe_n and_o the_o pharise_n do_v sit_v in_o the_o chair_n of_o moses_n all_o thing_n therefore_o whatsoever_o they_o say_v you_o must_v observe_v observe_v you_o and_o do_v you_o wherein_o the_o word_n therefore_o restrain_v all_o thing_n 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deny_v that_o they_o teach_v any_o thing_n against_o it_o yea_o or_o can_v teach_v rainoldes_n and_o why_o do_v you_o deny_v it_o hart._n because_o christ_n say_v of_o they_o they_o sit_v upon_o the_o chair_n of_o moses_n whereby_o to_o take_v your_o own_o exposition_n he_o mean_v they_o teach_v as_o moses_n do_v now_o if_o they_o teach_v as_o moses_n then_o teach_v they_o not_o against_o the_o law_n neither_o can_v they_o for_o if_o they_o can_v teach_v against_o the_o law_n of_o god_n then_o may_v that_o be_v false_a which_o be_v mean_v by_o christ_n that_o they_o teach_v as_o moses_n rainoldes_n that_o reason_n hold_v not_o for_o many_o speak_v the_o truth_n who_o can_v lie_v if_o need_v be_v and_o many_o speak_v the_o truth_n in_o some_o thing_n who_o in_o all_o thing_n do_v not_o christ_n respect_v that_o which_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharise_n do_v ordinary_o they_o read_v the_o law_n in_o the_o synagogue_n they_o will_v the_o people_n to_o observe_v it_o yea_o in_o outward_a thing_n as_o ceremony_n tithe_n purifying_n and_o sabbat_n they_o do_v exact_v it_o most_o strait_o but_o as_o paul_n say_v unto_o the_o high_a priest_n 23.3_o thou_o sit_v to_o judge_v i_o according_a to_o the_o law_n and_o do_v thou_o command_v i_o to_o be_v smite_v against_o the_o law_n so_o do_v they_o some_o time_n teach_v against_o the_o law_n when_o they_o shall_v teach_v according_a to_o it_o and_o hereof_o be_v proof_n make_v by_o christ_n himself_o who_o therefore_o will_v his_o disciple_n to_o beware_v of_o 6._o the_o leaven_n that_o be_v 12._o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o pharise_n hart._n then_o belike_o they_o sit_v not_o upon_o the_o chair_n of_o moses_n at_o some_o time_n when_o they_o teach_v rainoldes_n true_a but_o clean_o beside_o it_o upon_o a_o stool_n of_o their_o own_o for_o moses_n 5.46_o write_v of_o christ_n and_o 10.4_o christ_n be_v the_o end_n of_o his_o law_n but_o 12.42_o they_o refuse_v christ_n and_o teach_v the_o people_n so_o to_o do_v 6.7_o they_o 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they_o err_v in_o christ_n person_n not_o in_o expound_v the_o law_n it_o be_v a_o mere_a cavil_n for_o we_o speak_v in_o general_a of_o the_o chair_n of_o moses_n that_o be_v of_o his_o doctrine_n they_o err_v in_o expound_v the_o doctrine_n of_o moses_n when_o they_o deny_v to_o christ_n the_o thing_n which_o moses_n write_v of_o he_o howbeit_o that_o it_o be_v false_a too_o that_o they_o err_v not_o in_o expound_v the_o law_n for_o whereas_o 12._o the_o law_n be_v holy_a and_o 14._o spiritual_a require_v perfect_a righteousness_n ●8_o not_o only_o in_o the_o outward_a action_n of_o the_o body_n but_o also_o in_o the_o in_o ward_n affection_n of_o the_o mind_n the_o scribe_n and_o the_o
not_o in_o whole_a which_o be_v baldwin_n meaning_n as_o it_o appear_v by_o the_o place_n not_o of_o optatus_n but_o of_o austin_n whereto_o he_o apply_v it_o rainoldes_n but_o if_o baldwin_n mean_v so_o baldwin_n shall_v have_v remember_v that_o a_o testament_n so_o make_v be_v not_o testamentum_fw-la nuncupatiwm_fw-la for_o dete●tamentis_fw-la that_o be_v unwriten_a as_o the_o very_a quidem_fw-la rudiment_n of_o the_o law_n may_v teach_v he_o but_o imperfectum_fw-la rather_o though_o write_v yet_o unperfit_a and_o i_o trust_v you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o the_o testament_n of_o christ_n be_v unperfit_a sure_a optatus_n will_v not_o hart._n nor_o i_o sir_n though_o you_o will_v fain_o imply_v as_o though_o i_o say_v so_o for_o if_o christ_n will_v have_v his_o will_n in_o part_n write_v in_o part_n deliver_v by_o word_n of_o mouth_n join_v they_o both_o together_o they_o make_v a_o perfect_a testament_n rainoldes_n then_o the_o write_v testament_n of_o christ_n be_v unperfit_a it_o 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of_o optatus_n that_o your_o own_o 5._o baldwin_n in_o his_o annotation_n be_v fain_o to_o say_v of_o he_o he_o use_v that_o comparison_n of_o a_o testament_n not_o so_o wary_o hart._n not_o so_o wary_o as_o austin_n do_v for_o austin_n use_v it_o when_o he_o will_v prove_v out_o of_o the_o scripture_n that_o the_o church_n be_v catholic_a which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o point_n of_o their_o controversy_n with_o the_o donatist_n rainoldes_n but_o in_o handle_v that_o point_n he_o make_v it_o a_o general_a rule_n that_o whether_o it_o be_v of_o christ_n or_o of_o his_o church_n or_o of_o any_o thing_n else_o whatsoever_o pertain_v to_o our_o faith_n and_o life_n nothing_o must_v be_v preach_v beside_o the_o scripture_n that_o be_v the_o testament_n hart._n but_o in_o a_o other_o point_n of_o their_o controversy_n touch_v baptism_n s._n 6._o austin_n do_v allege_v not_o so_o much_o the_o scripture_n as_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n rainoldes_n not_o so_o much_o the_o scripture_n 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which_o bring_v in_o s._n cyprian_n too_o quod_fw-la autem_fw-la nos_fw-la admonet_fw-la cyprianus_n ut_fw-la ad_fw-la fontem_fw-la rec●rramus_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la apostolicam_fw-la traditionem_fw-la &_o inde_fw-la canalem_fw-la in_o nostra_fw-la tempora_fw-la dirigamus_fw-la optimum_fw-la est_fw-la &_o sine_fw-la dubitatione_n faciendum_fw-la that_o be_v to_o say_v whereas_o cyprian_n warn_v we_o that_o we_o shall_v go_v to_o the_o coondit_fw-fr head_n which_o be_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o thence_o direct_v the_o pipe_n to_o our_o own_o time_n that_o be_v best_a and_o to_o be_v do_v out_o of_o all_o doubt_n these_o be_v s._n augustine_n own_o word_n rainoldes_n s._n augustine_n own_o word_n in_o deed_n but_o what_o do_v follow_v in_o s._n austin_n traditum_fw-la est_fw-la ergo_fw-la nobis_fw-la sicut_fw-la ipse_fw-la commemorate_fw-la ab_fw-la apostolis_n quòd_fw-la sit_fw-la unus_fw-la deus_fw-la &_o christus_fw-la unus_fw-la &_o una_fw-la spes_fw-la &_o fides_fw-la una_fw-la &_o una_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la &_o baptisma_fw-la unum_fw-la that_o be_v to_o say_v it_o be_v deliver_v therefore_o to_o we_o by_o the_o apostle_n as_o cyprian_n himself_o rehearse_v that_o there_o be_v one_o god_n and_o one_o christ_n and_o one_o hope_n and_o one_o faith_n and_o one_o church_n and_o one_o baptism_n these_o be_v s._n augustine_n own_o word_n and_o ground_v on_o s._n ●ompeium_fw-la cyprian_n too_o so_o that_o he_o and_o cyprian_a mean_v by_o tradition_n that_o which_o be_v deliver_v and_o that_o to_o be_v deliver_v which_o be_v write_v in_o the_o scripture_n for_o this_o self_n same_o thing_n whereof_o they_o speak_v be_v write_v in_o the_o epistle_n of_o 4.4_o paul_n to_o the_o ephesian_n wherefore_o their_o tradition_n be_v tradition_n write_v that_o be_v to_o say_v scripture_n and_o not_o unwriten_a stuff_n as_o your_o jesuit_n will_v have_v it_o yea_o cyprian_n be_v so_o plain_a for_o controversy_n to_o be_v decide_v by_o this_o tradition_n only_o that_o in_o the_o same_o epistle_n whence_o austin_n cit_v this_o to_o the_o word_n of_o stephanus_n traditum_fw-la est_fw-la it_o be_v deliver_v unde_fw-la est_fw-la ista_fw-la traditio_fw-la faith_n he_o whence_o be_v this_o tradition_n do_v it_o come_v from_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o the_o gospel_n or_o from_o the_o commandment_n and_o epistle_n of_o the_o apostle_n for_o that_o we_o must_v do_v those_o thing_n which_o be_v write_v god_n do_v witness_n say_v to_o joshua_n 1.8_o let_v not_o this_o book_n of_o the_o law_n depart_v out_o of_o thy_o mouth_n but_o meditate_v in_o it_o day_n and_o night_n that_o thou_o may_v observe_v to_o perform_v all_o thing_n which_o be_v write_v therein_o and_o likewise_o the_o lord_n send_v his_o apostle_n will_v they_o that_o 28.20_o the_o nation_n shall_v be_v baptize_v and_o teach_v to_o observe_v all_o thing_n which_o he_o have_v command_v wherefore_o if_o this_o thing_n of_o the_o which_o stephanus_n say_v it_o be_v deliver_v be_v command_v in_o the_o gospel_n or_o contain_v in_o the_o epistle_n or_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n let_v this_o divine_a and_o holy_a tradition_n be_v observe_v see_v you_o not_o how_o cyprian_n think_v that_o all_o which_o christ_n command_v to_o be_v teach_v be_v write_v how_o he_o mean_v this_o write_v doctrine_n by_o tradition_n how_o his_o word_n of_o this_o tradition_n be_v approve_v by_o austin_n what_o conscience_n have_v your_o jesuit_n to_o allege_v that_o for_o tradition_n beside_o scripture_n which_o they_o so_o plain_o mean_v of_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o hart._n i_o do_v not_o see_v this_o neither_o in_o s._n austin_n nor_o in_o s._n cyprian_n rainoldes_n i_o be_o the_o soryer_n that_o your_o sight_n serve_v you_o no_o better_o for_o the_o thing_n be_v so_o clear_a that_o your_o own_o pompeium_n pamelius_n declare_v that_o cyprian_a mean_v the_o holy_a scripture_n there_o by_o tradition_n hart._n yet_o pamelius_n add_v that_o if_o