Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	mouth_n	speak_v	word_n	6,196	5	4.5092	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A90976	The sun out-shining the moon, or, Righteousness excelling rottennness in answer to a lying scandalous paper, published by John Moone, entituled, The true light hath made manifest darknesse, &c. : but it is darkness put forth for light, as it will appear by that which followeth / and is published by John Price.	Price, John, Welsh clergyman.; Bownd, William. Brief discovery of the the erroneous tenets of those who are distinguished from other men by the name of Quakers.	1658 (1658)	Wing P3353; ESTC R43721	30,935	58

mouth carping at they know not what like Dogs barking at the Moon Whereupon the said Alexander fathered that uproar upon me whereas there had not proceeded out of my mouth at that time any words but these above written and then I stated the question again as followeth Question Whether thou dost own a humane soul in man which is to be redeemed besides that pure principle of God He Answered The Soul is pure I replied that Jesus Christ came not to redeeme a pure principle of God but an impure soul Then said he Can the soul be defiled Can the soul be desiled I said The Soul can be defiled and the Soul is defiled through the fall in the first Adam He said The soul is under sin and slavery but it is not defiled with sin Then there was one that stood there for their side stirred up with a very wrathful distempered Spirit and said unto the said Alexander Brother I charge thee before God and these men that thou shalt not speak with this man And when he had thus spoken three times then the said Alexander said That he would not speak with me and so withdrew from me Whereupon I spake unto the people what he had said concerning mens souls that they could not be defiled with sin to the end that all those that see and are not stark blind might have a sight of his erronious Judgement Then the said Alexander drew near me again lest his Errors should be uncloaked and his Doctrine laid naked before the people saying Do not wrest my words I say The soul is pure I denied that the soul is pure to which end Christ came in the Flesh for to purifie impure souls I did bid him prove his affirmative Whereupon one John Moone it seems of the same judgement and Alexander did bid me prove that the soul is not pure I said I was not to prove a negative and so I did demand of them to prove that the soul is pure Then the said Alexander urged that Scripture in Gen. 2.7 God breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living Soul I said that doth not prove what the Soul is but what the soul was Here it appeareth that lest he should receive a total rout or a deadly wound with his own staffe and his false Tenet be stript bare he said that he spake of his own Soul Now a word unto the said Alexander Parker and John Moone who say You speak from the mouth of the Lord and by that infallible Spirit as the holy men of God did and are fully perfect How is it that the said Alexander hath said and the said John Moone seeming to maintain what he had said and if he spake of his own Soul to be under sin and slavery how is it that he is also perfect Or is it not rather clear according to his general Doctrine that day and the question propounded that he spake of every mans Soul but lest he should be trapped in his own snare he said He spake of his own Soul Here I charge thee with a lie either of you shew me if you can which way you can escape it let me see which way you can dawb up this tottering Wall with your untempered Morter or else be ashamed of your ignorance and confesse your Error and repent Now to all you that are impartial and unbiassed that can weigh the truth in the Balance of Justice do I appeal First Whether that Proposition I propounded was a thing needful or material that day Secondly Whether the propounding of that question onely was a cause of an uproar Thirdly Whether it was a difficult thing for me to prove from Scripture that the Soul was defiled with sin Fourthly Whether that Scripture Gen. 2.7 doth prove his Soul or any other man's Soul to be pure since our fall in the first Adam Fifthly Whether this lying and equivocating aforesaid be from the mouth of the Lord and by the infallible Spirit Or whether is it by the Spirit of Error and from the mouth of Antichrist who is the Lord of lyes By one that is embouldened to stand up in the truths behalf to the face of truths Opposers WILLIAM BOWND A Copy of this forementioned Discourse was sent unto John Moone and Alexander Parker After many dayes I received this reply which followeth A Paper I received subscribed by one William Bownd wherein I find several lies and false accusations and lying aspersions cast upon the Messengers of the Lord judging of truth with his dark mind as that Generation of Professors ever did who had a form of Godlinesse but denied the light and Power as William Bownd hath gotten the good words painted himself with a covering but not with the Spirit of the Lord woe is his Portion for and to all who make a shew of Goodnesse but their lives and conversations contrary a blind Zeal but not according to truth and out of that blind zeal doth judge of the things of God judges truth to be Error and puts light for darknesse and darknesse for light as thou William Bownd and all blind Professors ever did persecute and hate them who were Professors and did walk in the life and Power of truth and to thee William Bownd and all people that were present that day at David William's house was the word of the Lord declared a mongst you and that of God in all your consciences shall for ever bear Testimony for the Lord and his word and it shall stand for ever and shall not go out in vain and shall be thy condemnation for ever and all that slight it and his Messengers and we shall be a good Savour unto God both in them that believe and in them that perish and what was spoken there of the mystery of Godlinesse which is hid from all vulterous eyes and venemous Beasts shall stand for ever and concerning redemption and the groanes and cryes of the Innocent that groaneth for deliverance as Israel groaned under Pharaoh this shalt thou Bownd and all people one day confesse to be truth and I appeal to all of that in thy conscience and all peoples consciences when any evil of sin is committed upon the sense and feeling of it many times sighes and groanes will be heard and the groans and cryes are entered into the eares of the Lord of Sabbath and he is now risen in his Majesty and dreadful Power for the redemption of his own people and will burn up the chaffe the wicked and carnal Professors and give them their Portion in the lake of endlesse misery and this shalt thou witnesse when the Book of conscience is opened and the liar hath his Portion And whereas thou Bownd saith That after Alexander Parker had done speaking thou spake unto him Whether he did own any part in man which is to be redeemed besides that pure principle which he had been speaking of and thou sayest he did not answer to the question which thou propoundedst which thing

is not my intention but to make a short reply to that wherein he doth particularly and falsly accuse not onely me but Hugh Ev●ns also In his 3. Pag. he saith That Hugh Evans said that Christ his Spirit is distinct but he diminished from his words for Hugh Evans said that Christ his Spirit is distinct in their offices operations Now I would desire every honest mind to consider the basenesse of this man that would cunningly and purposely leave out half the mans words and put the other half out in Print for these were the words that Hugh E. vans said That Christ and his Spirit are distinct in their Offices and operations Then John Moone accused him of blasphemy in saying that Christ and his Spirit is distinct Then Hugh said Why dost thou divide my words said John Moone I will publish thy blasphemy Then Hugh Evans said I charge thee to publish my whole saying Now I would have every sincere heart to judge whether this man is not left here without a cover to hide his nakednesse and shame Was it not a shameful thing for him to accuse the man of blasphemy and yet he himself afraid to publish the whole pretended blasphemy or doth it not argue that his malitious mind would cast a false aspersion upon Hugh Evans and upon that which he professed which I believe he aimed amost at Again consider whether this man hath not made shipwrack of a good conscience if ever he had any that would knowingly and purposedly misrepresent a man to all people under the title of a Blasphemer yet would not publish his whole saying which he did over over repeat I do not speak this because that the saying is so grosse in the terms as John Moone hath put it out but to shew the dishonesty of this perfect man This I say to thee John Moone that either thou dost not understand the sense of the word distinct or else thou art very willing to make uprears and quarrels where there is no cause but I do believe both of thee therefore I shal shew thee how Christ his Spirit is not distinct Secondly How he is distinct or distinguished The word distinct doth not alwayes mean two material things standing at a distance the one from the other as it is like thou dost ignorantly suppose there is distance in places in times and in persons but neither of these distinctions is to be made between Christ his Spirit there is also distinctions in natures qualities and properties yet I do not say that Christ and his Spirit is so to be distinguished The Father Son and Spirit is distinguished yet not divided though it is like that thou dost think that whatsoever is distinguished is divided There are three that bear witnesse in Heaven the Father Son and the Spirit and these three are one yet distinguished three and so it may be said of Christ and his Spirit Very much may be said of Christ being distinct in his Office yet not separated nor divided from his Spirit Christ said as he was the Son of man I have finished the work which thou hast given me to do but it cannot be said that the Spirit of Christ hath finished his work until all be converted that ever shall be converted and all the Saints glorified but the work of Christ in suffering for sin in the flesh is finished yet Christ and his Spirit is not divided but distinguished It is like that John Moon thought by leaving out part of the words which Hugh Evans had said that it would appear more like to be blasphemy It appeares also that John Moone did know that it was no blasphemy as Hugh Evans had spoken it or at least that he would not be believed by others if he did write the whole saying Take the wisest mans speech that ever was and let me leave out what part I will of it I know that I shall either make it blasphemy or non-sense as for instance Psalm 14.1 which saith The Fool saith in his heart There is no God leave out The Fool saith in his heart and then you may say that the Scripture saith There is no God John Moones affirmative is true but his negative is false it is true that Christ and his Spirit is one but to say there is no distinction in their Offices operations and workings is false as may be further proved by many instances but that the thing is so plain that I desire not to trouble the Reader any further But know this that Christ and his Spirit is one in reference to time place and person and an harmony of an agreement between them in their Offices operations and workings all in and fulfilling of the will of the one onely wise God I say further that the onely wise pure Father Son Spirit and Saints are one and yet a thousand distinctions I believe may be observed touching the Father Son Spirit and Saints and without distinctions he nor no man else can speak much of them not blaspheme I say saith John Moone that they are one and not distinct Then I say if there be no distinctions why doth he call Christ and his Spirit they which doth signifie pluralities he nor no man else can speak of the Father Son and Spirit and not make distinctions for in the words themselves lieth distinctions saith the Apostle Joh. 17.21 22. where he speaketh of the Father Son and Spirit and these three are one these and thine and mine them and us all these words doth signifie distinctions yet not divisions he goeth on to prove that Christ and his Spirit are one and so fights with his own shadow for nothing else hath he to fight with for all will say that Christ and his Spirit is one but if any would deny it he goeth very weakly to prove it for he goeth about to prove that which all England doth acknowledge in words and not make good any thing against what is affirmed that Christ and his Spirit is distinguished And this is the effect of his reasoning because John and Paul doth witnesse union between Christ and his Spirit therefore no distinction as he saith after he cited Rom 8.20 and Joh. 17.21 Now see where is the distinction saith he then he writes down John 17.21 22. Then said he Them that have an eye to see withal let them see the confusion which the Baptists declare whereas it is his own confusion foaming out his own shame and falsly accusing those whom he calls the Baptists in saying that they say That Christ and his Spirit is distinct the one from the other but thou hast grafted on this lie since thou thy self didst repeat that part of the words which Hugh Evans had said for neither did Hugh Evans say nor thy self till now that they were one from the other Is this thy honesty first to diminish from the mans words and instead of them adde thine own Hugh Evans said That Christ and his

Spirit is distinct in offices operations and workings and in stead of the words operations offices and workings thou addest one from the other see how thou hast handled altered and perverted the man's words so with a parcel of the old Lesson in which we are judged and condemned he goeth on speaking of the true Worshippers and of the false applying the true to themselves and the false to the Baptists so leaving He begins with another lie In the latter end of his fourth Page he accuseth me of saying That there is another way besides light and darkness the which words never proceeded out of my mouth as many can witnesse who were there present But this is the root of the matter John Moone and his Brethren did use to hold forth that there is but two things viz. light and darkness God and the Devil the seed of the Woman and the seed of the Serpent Then I did inquire what that is that is called to repent and believe for the seed of the Woman cannot Eternally be damned and the seed of the Serpent cannot be saved Therefore there is something else that is in danger of being damned which by grace may be Eternally saved But at that time which he saith that I did contradict him in his Teaching it is not so but I accused him of being a false Prophet upon that which had passed between us at other times more then any thing that he had spoken then for when I came into the meeting-place one of the Quakers whose name is Hugh Lloyd and others whom he calls the Baptists were disputing so that I began to speak to Hugh Lloyd Whereupon John Moone replied and said unto me That I was a Blasphemer and the like termes which his mouth is full of so that the discourse began about the threenesse When he did put me to prove him to be a false Prophet the first thing that I did instance then was this Thou sayest that there is but two things that is God and the Devil Then he puts me to prove the third I said That it was man then he said something to this effect That man was one with God and became one with the Devil I replied that they were three distinct things in nature or essence but that I should say That they are one from the other is as true as that Hugh Evans should say That Christ and his Spirit were one from the other I would have the Reader know that we could not then have any orderly reasoning with these men therefore there cannot be as good account given of it as it might if they would observe order and yet they will cry out against confusion as much as any people And as he diminished from Hugh Evans his words so he addeth to my words for I said not One from another neither did I say three wayes but things So he pressed upon me to prove by Scriptures them to be three distinct things Then I produced the Scriptures which saith In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth Then In the beginning was God before there was man therein they were distinct or distinguished the one before the other the one being Eternal before all times the other having a beginning in time Thirdly I produced the third Chapter of Genesis in the beginning of the Chapter which sheweth the Devils coming to tempt man Then I asked Which of the three will you deny Then one of their Teachers named Hugh Lloyd said We deny man I would have the Reader to understand that there was so much disorder and confusion that it was in vain for me to proceed orderly to distinguish their natures properties and qualities for they were more like Oyster-women scoulding then moderate men reasoning or discoursing for many were speaking at once as their manner is and seldome had I any better termes then Serpent or Dog thou wouldest bite if thou couldest the Judgement and wrath of God is thy Portion with many more words of the like nature as these are I do not say That I do repeat all that hath passed between us that day neither can I but this I can say that I do not leave any thing unrepeated which doth destroy the sense of that which is repeated that I know of The pure holy wise Creator created all things and formed man in his own image but it is no less then blasphemy to say That God is formed or made therefore they are distinct or we must distinguish between the Creator and the Creature Again if there was no distinction to be made between God and man What need was there of Laws and Precepts to bind man upon penalty of death if broken and though the Text saith God created man in his own image it doth not follow that therefore no distinction is to be observed between the Creator and the Creature and further they are distinguished by their names for if there were no distinctions wherefore have they two names Also they differ in nature The nature of God was not nor is not subject to change nor alter But the nature of man was and is subject to alter Thus they were distinguished to be before man fell Now after the fall of man and after he had hearkened to the Devil and became partaker of his nature yet he became not presently a Devil for as man bore the image of God before the fall yet man was not very God before the fall neither is he very Devil after the fall Therefore it admitteth of many distinctions between God and man before the fall and also many distinctions between man and the Devil after the fall for if there be no distinctions between God and man before the fall then there was nothing to fall unlesse some part of God should fall which is no lesse then blasphemy to say that God nor any part of him should fall For he is the holy wise individual and unchangeable God Again if man after the fall was become a very Devil then there is nothing to be restored to the image of God but that which is or was a very Devil but there is something which shall be restored which is not nor was not wholly a Devil for it is written He took not upon him the nature of Angels but the seed of Abraham I had many times told this unconscionable lying man these or the like words That there was but two wayes or light and darknesse And man was the third thing which doth walk in one of the two wayes But this I alwayes did and do deny still that there is no union between men and the Devil but that which is by participating of his nature and not that they are essentially one And now in his fifth Page where he comes to give his judgment concerning it I find no difference between that which I said and that which he now saith in his Paper but onely this I said that man walked in one of these two ways and he saith And

THE SUN OUT-SHINING THE MOON OR Righteousnesse excelling Rottenness In answer to a lying scandalous Paper PUBLISHED BY JOHN MOONE ENTITVLED THE TRUE LIGHT Hath made manifest darknesse c. But it is darkness put forth for light as it will appear by that which followeth And is Published by JOHN PRICE Prov. 30.12 There is a Generation that are pure in their own eyes and yet are not washed from their filthinesse Prov. 12.22 Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord but they that deal truely are his delight Prov. 12.19 The lips of truth shall be established for ever but a lying tougue is but for a moment Prov. 14.25 A true witnesse delivereth souls but a deceitful witnesse speaketh lyes LONDON Printed for the Author 1658. READER I Had no desire to appear so publickely neither had I so appeared now if the wrong and abuse had reflected onely upon my self but lest that the truth professed by me should be abused through my being silent seeing that the good will of our God was to deprive me and many more of my Brother Hugh Evans who was buried before the appearance of John Moones printed Paper For if he had lived I should not have so publickely appeared in this Work he being chiefly accused and abused by the aforesaid John Moone And seeing that I am also grossely abused and my words perverted I judge it my duty and know it my liberty to clear my self and others from the aspersions falsly cast upon us and vindicate the truth professed by us I would have the Reader to know that I have no prejudicial thoughts towards John Moone though I have worse thoughts of him then I have of many of his Brethren I would not the least wrong done to his nor their Persons and I would as willingly give them the liberty of their consciences as I would have the liberty of my own Drunkards and Swearers can go without being persecuted neither dragged or haled to Prison when civil sober harmlesse men under the name of Hereticks are abused and imprisoned and be judged by vile carnal unjust Judges who have no Religion nor God but their bellies but if any should say now he taketh the part of those whom he himself opposeth It is true I do so but I do not oppose them peradventure as thou dost It may be thou wouldest have men to be of thy Religion be it right or wrong whether they can believe it or not or else thou wilt have them persecuted and imprisoned and so force them to make Shipwracke of their conscience or to suffer persecution And I would use all Lawful meanes in love meeknesse and tendernesse to convince them of their errors and if I could be a meanes to win them I would rejoyce in the Lord with them if not I will pity them and mourn for them and not seek to destroy them as the manner of most of all Nations is not considering that the ninth hour may be behind or that they may be called at the eleventh hour But thou wouldest have them to observe thy time and not suffer them to stay for God's time or if they will not observe thy time thou wouldest have them destroyed and not suffer them to live until the last hour to see if peradventure they may enter into the Vineyard and will of God and be saved But I shall desire thee and all men to learn of the Spirit of grace and meeknesse rather to pity then to persecute thy poor miserable Brother who was created and estated with thee in Paradise who also have fallen from thence with thee and became Children of wrath and though by grace thou art recovered to a lively hope of that glory that shall be revealed O I say rather learn to pity and to long for the recovery of him out of the snares of the Devil then to hate and persecute him So I leave thee and desire to find thee led by the Spirit of moderation and wisedom and remain a Lover and well-wisher of thy soul and body J. P. Also I desire thee to read and not to judge partially of either side And likewise thou art desired to observe the difference between their words and Papers and ours for I have published several Papers which they had sent to us and also those which we had sent to them Dated the ninth day of July in the year 1657. EPISTLE TO all them in whom a sparkle of true grace and sincere zeal hath once been kindled and have felt the weight and seen the odiousnesse and filth of their sins And by the light and love of the Father being kindled in the heart have seen and judged it but just to deliver up unto death that Murtherer who hath killed the just and so have put on a Righteous Resolution and continueth in the Battle and fighteth under the Banner of God's love and though peradventure you have been benighted in the pursuit of your Enemy and were at a stand in a desolate Wildernesse yet your hatred against the Enemy remaining that is to say your own sins fleshly wills and desires and a longing desire after that peaceable Habitation and life which is to be attained unto through death I wish that Christ's exhortation may prevail with you in this confused age in which there is so many Loe here and loe there Be ye as wise as Serpents and harmlesse as Doves wisedom and Innocency are excellent vertues at all times but especially in these dayes wherein there are so many Forms and Professions of Godlinesse and Antichrist most subtilly hath laid its snare in every one of them and no sooner he is found out in one shape but speedily he shifts himself into another shape or Form and decketh trimmeth sitteth and sheweth himself as though he is God So I desire that you would carefully observe his motions and refuse his society and that you may die dayly to every thing that dieth and so be weaned from the Vanities of this present evil World Chiefly for your sakes have I published somewhat of that which hath passed between the Baptized Believers in these Countries and the people known by the name of Quakers As for the people in general I shall not say much of but chiefly those which I and others in these Countries have had experience of their Doctrine Lives and Conversations they have not been in this Countrey but about eighteen Moneths and to speak the truth they brought many shifts with them but before thirteen Moneths was come about they were worn thred-bare in so much that their nakednesse and shame was seen So I commend you with all Saints to the meek love of God I rest and remain Your Friend and Lover of all them that in sincerity seeketh and longeth after the fulnesse of God and goodnesse JOHN PRICE THE SUN OUT-SHINING THE MOON OR Righteousnesse excelling Rottennesse In answer to a lying scandalous Paper Published by JOHN MOONE Entituled The TRUE LIGHT Hath made manifest darknesse c. THere was a