Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	know_v	see_v	soul_n	6,285	5	4.9453	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A65422	Popery anatomized, or, A learned, pious, and elaborat treatise wherein many of the greatest and weightiest points of controversie, between us and papists, are handled, and the truth of our doctrine clearly proved : and the falshood of their religion and doctrine anatomized, and laid open, and most evidently convicted and confuted by Scripture, fathers, and also by some of their own popes, doctors, cardinals, and of their own writers : in answer to M. Gilbert Brown, priest / by that learned, singularly pious, and eminently faithful servant of Jesus Christ M. John Welsch ...; Reply against Mr. Gilbert Browne, priest	Welch, John, 1568?-1622.; Craford, Matthew. Brief discovery of the bloody, rebellious and treasonable principles and practises of papists.	1672 (1672)	Wing W1312; ESTC R38526	397,536	586

Acts 2. and Thomas of Aquin 3. part quaest 52. art 1. 3. two great Papists and yet Bonaventure in 3. distinct 22. quaest 4. and Bellarmin lib. 4. de Christo cap. 16. affirms the contrary That his soul was in the place of pain and yet suffered no pain Next Thomas of Aquin affirms 3. part qu. 52. That Christ descended only into that place of hell called Limbus Patrum but Bellarmin saith It is more probable that he went to all the parts of hell And this is the consent which you Papists have among your selves not only in this point but almost in all the points of your doctrine Now as to the places of Scripture which ye quote they serve nothing to this purpose For the 2. of the Acts it speaks of that bondage of the grave which kept him under until he rose again and therefore the Greek word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth death and not hell as ye translate it here and Peter saith whom God raised up The Apostle speaks then of that part of Christ which had fallen and was raised up but it was the body only and not the soul which fell down and was raised up therefore he speaks of the sorrows of death whereby his body was kept in bondage and not of any local descension of Christs soul As for the places of the Psalms which ye quote here Peter brings them not in to prove this local descension as ye say whereof he makes no mention but to prove his resurrection as he saith in the 31. verse most plainly He knowing this before speaking of David spake of the resurrection of Christ that his soul should not remain in grave neither his flesh should see corruption So if ye will believe the Spirit of God in the Apostle interpreting these places they speak of the resurrection of Christ and not of the delivering of the soul out of hell for he was in Paradise as he saith himself and it is the body that was raised and not the soul And the Hebrew word is NEPHESCH which not only signifieth the soul but also the life as Gen. 37.21 Let us smite his soul that is take away his life And it signifieth also the body of the dead wherein there was life as Levit. 21.1.11 And this word Hell is SCHEOL in Hebrew which most usually is taken in the Scripture for the grave So then the meaning is this The Lord will not leave his Nephesch that is the body wherein his life was in Scheol that is in the grave which speech is usual in the Scripture Now as to the other Psalm 29.3 it is spoken properly of David where he thanketh God who had saved his life from the hands of his enemies which by a borrowed speech frequented in the Scripture is called the delivery of his soul from the grave As for the 4. of the Ephesians these lower parts of the earth is not Hell as ye expone it but the earth it self which in respect of the world is the lowest part and so it is taken in the Psalm 139 15. where David saith Thou hast fashioned me beneath in the lower parts of the earth where here it is not taken for Hell as you take it in that place of the Ephesians otherwise ye must say that David was born in Hell which I suppose ye will not say So hereby is meant then the lowest and basest degree of his humiliation So now to conclud this neither in these points M. Gilbert nor in any point of doctrine wherein ye differ from us is your doctrine agreeable to Christs doctrine and his Apostles as hath been I hope proved sufficiently You must therefore provide you for better weapons and armor and stronger defences for the overthrow of our doctrine and uphold of yours then ye have done otherwise your shots will be but as shots of paper and your bulwarks but of intempered morter which suddenly will rush down at the light of the truth of God The Lord open your eyes to see the truth and suffer you not to continue any longer to cause the blind go out of the way as you have done Amen SECTION XX. Concerning the difference betwixt Popery and the Reformed Religion Master John Welsch ANd our Religion which we profess and all the particular heads of it was instituted by Jesus Christ and his Apostles which I offer me also to prove either by word or writ against whosoever will plead the contrary The which if I fail in I will be content to lose my life therefore by his grace Master Gilbert Brown There is much promised here but nothing done and it is a thing impossible to him to do For why the difference chiefly that the Protestants differ from us is in denying abhorring or detesting as may be seen in their Confession of Faith which they compel all men to swear and subscribe As we detest and refuse the usurped authority of that Roman Antichrist upon the Scriptures of God upon the Church the civil Magistrat c. except such things were expresly contained in the Word of God M. John Welsch his Reply As for my promise and performance I answere● 〈◊〉 that before and whither that be a thing unpossible 〈◊〉 or not let this my answer be a tryal thereof You are bold enough indeed in affirming it to be impossible but what have ye for you You say because the difference chiefly that we differ from you is in denying and abhorring What a raison is this Can we not prove our Religion out of the Scripture because we deny yours which is contrary to the same Is it impossible to prove the truth because falshood is denyed and abhorred What new Logick or Divinity is this I would never have believed that ye had been such an unskilful reasoner if your self had not bewrayed the same And certainly your Church is not beholden to you For if your reason hold forth it will follow that it is impossible to you or any man else to prove the heads of your Religion by the Scripture For in your Confession of Faith and form of abjuration set down by the Monks of Burdeaux anno 1585. there they deny and abhor the Protestants and their doctrine and compel all men who desire the fellowship of the Roman Church and their absolution to abjure renounce and subscribe the same But I suppose your Church will not allow this manner of reasoning of yours And whereas you say that the chief difference wherein we differ from you is in denying and abhorring c. of your Religion I ask you Doth not our Religion differ as far from yours as yours doth from us This you cannot deny For are not two contraries equally different one from another Doth not light differ as far from darkness white from black Christ from Antichrist as darkness from light black from white and Antichrist from Christ And are not yours and our Religions contrary one to another But your self will not deny and Bellarmin confesseth in

thereof lest the people should be discouraged and faint went himself with the Canonier up the walls and desired he should charge such a piece of Canon and shoot for GOD should direct that shot and cause it to prosper which accordingly did to the astonishment of on-lookers dismount that battery and the Lord so ordered things after that the King did parley on favorable terms with the City and did only himself with his Court come in without doing any violence Upon the LORDS day thereafter some of the godly in that place fearing M. Welsch his hazard did seriously deal with him that he would forbear to go forth and preach the Court being there But he would by no means be hindered showing them he would adventure to preach the Word to his people and trust the Lord with what concerned himself Therefore he went forth and preached having a very great Auditory both of friends and others who came upon the fame of such a man But in time of Sermon a great man of the Court with some of the Kings own guard was sent to bring him forthwith before the King and whilst he was entering the Church which had some difficulty by reason of the multitude M. Welsch did turn himself toward that entry and desired the people to give way to one of the great Peers of France that was coming in But after whilst he was coming near the Pulpit to execute his Commission he did with great authority speak to him before all the people and in the Name of his Master JESUS CHRIST charged him that he would not disturb the worship of GOD. Wherewith he was so affrighted that he fell a shaking yea was forced to crutch down and make no further trouble Sermon being ended M. Welsch with much submission went to the King who was then greatly incensed and with a threatning countenance asked What he was And how he durst preach Heresie so near his person and with such contumacy carry himself To which with due reverence bowing himself he did answer I am Sir the servant and Minister of JESUS CHRIST whose truth I preached this day which if your Majesty rightly knew ye would have judged it your duty to have come your self and heard And for my doctrine I did this day preach these three truths to your people First that man is fallen and by nature in a lost condition yea by his own power and abilities is not able to help himself from that estat Secondly that there is no salvation or deliverance from wrath by our own merits but by JESUS CHRIST and his merit alone Thirdly I did also preach this day the just liberties of the Kingdom of France that your Majesty oweth obedience to Christ only who is the Head of the Church and that the Pope as he is an enemy to Christ and his truth so also to the Kings of the earth whom he keepeth under slavery to his usurped power Whereat the King for a time keeping silence with great astonishment turned to some about him and said Surely this is a man of GOD. Yea after did commune with him and with great respect dismissed him The next year the differences betwixt the King and Protestants growing greater the City was again besieged M. Welsch intreated the Citizens to make peace with the King for God had a controversie with them for their unthankfulness and not walking answerably to the Gospel therefore he was not with them as formerly but had given them up to their enemies and if they stood out their City should be taken But the City not hearkening to him was taken and in part sacked At which time the King passed a solemn order that none should in the least wrong M. Welsch nor any thing that belonged to him under highest pains and said to him as Nebuzaradan to Jeremiah All the land is before thee whither it seemeth good and convenient for thee to go thither go But M. Welsch being grown exceedingly infirm in his body and the Physicians advising that only his native air could help him choised to go over to England whereupon the King granted him a safe-conduct So he came over to London where he remained a certain space but not being permitted to return to Scotland his sickness encreased and he died During the time of his sickness he was so filled and overcome with the sensible enjoyment of GOD that he was sometimes over-heard in prayer to have these words LORD hold thy hand it is enough thy servant it a clay vessel and can hold no more He was a man for piety converse and communion with GOD most singular and rare M. Rutherfurd in his Epistle prefixed to his Survey of Antinomianism showeth that from the witnesses of his life he had this account that of every twenty-four hours he gave usually eight to prayer if other necessary and urgent duties did not hinder Yea he spent many dayes and nights which he set apart in fasting and prayer for the condition of the Church and the sufferings of the Reformed Churches abroad He used even in the coldest winter nights to rise for prayer as the Author of the fulfilling of the Scripture testifieth and oft times his wife hath risen to seek after him where he hath been found lying on the ground weeping and wrestling with the LORD yea some times would have been much of the night alone in the Church of Air on that account One time especially his wife finding him overcharged with grief he told her he had that to press him which she had not the souls of three thousand people to answer for whilst he knew not how it was with many of them And at another time whilst she found him alone his spirit almost overcharged with anguish and grief upon her serious enquiry said That the times which were to come on Scotland were heavy and sad though she should not see them and this for the contempt of the Gospel While he was in France a Frier travelling through the Countrey came to his house and M. Welsch being very hospital permitted him to stay all night The Friers bed being not far from M. Welsch his chamber heard a noyse with many deep sighs and groans all night which he supposed to have been an evil spirit and therefore arose early in the morning and would needs be gone a Scots Gentle-man being in the house and seeing the Frier troubled enquired what the matter meant that he would be gone so soon He answered he would not stay in a Huguenots house any longer for they had converse with evil spirits The Gentle-man understanding the matter told him that it was M. Welsch whose ordinary it was to pray all night and desired him to stay the next night and he should see the truth thereof which accordingly he did and was so much astonished at M. Welsch his piety that he forsook Popery and embraced the Reformed Religion As he conversed with GOD and dwelt in the Mount by prayer and wrestling with GOD night and

day for he used to say He wondered how a Christian could ly in bed all night without rising to spend some of the night in prayer and praise so he was admitted to very intimat nearness with him and to speak with reverence put upon his secrets so that he had very many things revealed to him both concerning the Church and Kingdom of Scotland and concerning particular places and persons several instances thereof are recorded I. In his letter to my Lady Fleeming he fore-telleth the judgement coming on Scotland for he thus speaketh Alace for the Kingdom of Scotland my testimony doth not differ from that of many before this time who said that the judgement of Scotland should be blood This Kingdom shal be drowned in blood A forbished and glistering sword is dight and already drawn out of the sheath which shal not return until it be made drunk with the blood of the men within this Land First the heavy intestin sword and then the fury of a stranger O doleful Scotland well were he that were removed far from thee that his eyes might not see ●●r his ears hear all the evils that are to come upon thee Neither the strong man by his strength nor the rich man by his riches nor the Noble by his blood shal be delivered from the judgement There is a great sacrifice to be made in Bozra in thee O Scotland of the blood of all sorts in the Land Ephraim shal consume Manasse and Manasse Ephraim Brother against brother and every man in the judgement of the LORD shal be armed to thrust his sword in the side of his neighbor and all for the contempt of the most glorious Gospel and that blood which was offered to thee O Scotland in so plentiful a manner that the like thereof hath not been offered to any Nation therefore thy judgement shal be the greater The fulfilling whereof at least in part hath since been very sensible and is known by many alive who had that letter long before the late troubles did begin II. On a certain night being under an extraordinary pressure of spirit to go and powr forth his heart to GOD he left his wife in bed and going out to a garden spent most of the night in that exercise but his wife weary at last went to seek for him but missing him in his ordinary place went into other gardens by such passages as she knew at last she heard a voyce and drawing near to it could but hear him speak a few words but with great force and fervency mixed and accompanied with floods of tears which were these O GOD wilt thou not give me Scotland O GOD wilt thou not give me Scotland She being weary and afraid to interrupt him went home and heard not the close At last he came home and reentering to his bed his wife began to reprove his unmercifulness to his own body then asked him what was he saying for she told she heard him Well said he ye had better have been in your bed but since ye heard I tell you I have endured a great fight for Scotland this night and hardly could I get a remnant reserved yet he will be gracious III. After this he arose another night but went not out of doors but in a chamber he travelled and groaned so as his wife impatient did rise several times calling him to bed but he waited his time And when he came she began a modest expostulation with him for tarrying Hold thy peace said he it will be well with us but I shal never preach another preaching in Air. And having fallen asleep before he awaked the messenger was come who by command carryed him prisoner to the Castle of Edinburgh IV. When he was prisoner in the Castle of Edinburgh for holding the Assembly of Aberdene The Lord Ochiltrie being at that time Captain of the Castle caused M. Welsch to sup with him one night in the Castle being related to him for M. Welsch mother in law M. Knoxs wife was his sister where were also several other Gentle-men and among them a Popish youth sate toward the lower end of the table M. Welsch being by the Captain set at the upper end entertained the company with grave and edifying discourse which all delighted to hear save the young Papist who with laughter and derision labored to silence him which was little regarded by M. Welsch But after supper while the guests sate a little this youth stood up at the lower end of the table and while M. Welsch proceeded from grave to gracious entertainment of them at table the youth came to that hight of insolency as with the finger to point at him and with the face to make flouting grimaces whereby he grieved the holy man so as on a sudden he was forced to a silence The whole company who heard him with delight were silent with him Within a little M. Welsch as moved by the Spirit of GOD broke forth into these words Gentle-men the Spirit of GOD is provoked against us and I shal intreat you not to be afraid to see what GOD shal do among you before you rise from the table for he will smite some one of you with death before you go home All were silently astonished waiting to see the issue with fear and while every man feared himself except the insolent youth he fell down dead suddenly at the foot of the table to show the power of GODS jealousie against the mockers of his Spirit and the offers of his grace V. One day while M. Welsch looked out at his chamber window in the Castle he hapned to see the Captain and called unto him saying God save you my Lord. The Captain acknowledging his neglect and asking for M. Welsch welfare desired to know how he might serve him In nothing said M. Welsch if you be well except you would carry my petition to his Majesty intreating for liberty to preach the Gospel I willingly will said the Captain therefore send it to me Nay said M. Welsch I am your kinsman I love you so well as to warn you not to take it in charge except you resolve to deal truly in delivering it and getting me an answer I shal bear the blame said the Captain if I do it not I beseech you my Lord said the other under-take it not except you mind to do it for the hazard is great Well Ochiltry takes it but not coming in an opportune season for he came when the King was passionatly moved on another occasion he thought not fit then to give it and as at that time he deferred so thereafter he neglected and at last quite forgot to deliver it at all For which his heart smiting him he durst hardly be seen of M. Welsch for three moneths Yet conscience forgetting as well as he he came to the same place where M. Welsch at first called him and now M. Welsch asked how he did and what was become of his petition The Captain surprised answered

dwelleth wherein I shal rest for evermore I look to get entry at the new Jerusalem at one of these twelve gates whereupon are written the names of the twelve Tribes of the children of Israel I know CHRIST JESUS hath prepared rowm for me why may I not then with boldness in his blood step in unto that glory where my Head and LORD hath gone before me JESUS CHRIST is the door and the Porter who then shal hold me out VVill he let them perish for whom he hath died VVill he let that poor sheep be plucked out of his hand for whom he hath laid down his life VVho shal condemn the man whom GOD hath justified VVho shal lay any thing to the charge of the man for whom CHRIST hath died or rather risen again I know I have grievously transgressed but where sin aboundeth grace superaboundeth I know my sins are red as scarlet and crimson yet the red blood of CHRIST my LORD can make me as white as snow as wool VVhom have I in heaven but him Or whom desire I in earth beside him O thou the fairest among the children of men the light of the Gentils the glory of the Jews the life of the dead the joy of Angels and Saints My soul panteth to be with thee I will put my spirit into thy hands and thou wilt n●● put it out of thy presence I will come unto thee for thou casts none away that comes unto thee O thou the only delight of mankind Thou camest to seek and save that which is lost Thou seeking me hast found me and now being found by thee I hope O LORD thou wilt not let me perish I desire to be with thee and do long for the fruition of thy blessed presence and joy of thy countenance Thou the only good Shepherd art full of grace and truth therefore I trust thou wilt not thrust me out of the door of thy presence and grace The Law was given by Moses but grace and truth by thee VVho shal separat me from thy love Shal tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword Nay in all these things I am more then a conqueror through thy Majesty that hath loved me For I am perswaded that neither death nor life Principalities nor Powers nor hight nor depth nor things present nor things to come nor any other creature is able to separat me from the love of thy Majesty w ich is in CHRIST JESUS my LORD I refuse not to die with thee that I may live with thee I refuse not to suffer with thee that I may rejoyce with thee Shal not all things be pleasant to me which may be my last step by which or upon which I may come unto thee When shal I be satiat with thy face When shal I be drunk with thy pleasures Come LORD JESUS and tarry not The Spirit saith Come the Bride saith Come Even so LORD JESUS come quickly and tarry not Why should the multitude of mine iniquities or the greatness of them affright me Why should I faint in this mine adversity to be with thee The greater sinner I have been the greater glory will thy grace be to me unto all eternity Oh! unspeakable joy endless infinit and bottomless compassion O Ocean of never-fading pleasure O love of loves O the hight and depth and breadth and length of that love of thine that passeth knowledge O uncreated Love Beginning without beginning and ending without end Thou art my glory my joy and my gain and my crown Thou hast set me under thy shadow with great delight and thy fruit is sweet unto my taste Thou hast brought me into thy banqueting-house and placed me in thine orchard Stay me with thy flagons and comfort me with thine apples for I am sick and my soul is wounded with thy love Behold thou art fair my Love Behold thou art fair thou hast doves eyes Behold thou art fair my Love yea pleasant also our bed is green The beams of our house are Cedars and our rasters are of firr How fair and how pleasant art thou O Love for delights my heart is ravished with thee O when shal I see thy face How long will thou delay to be to me as a Roe or a young Hart leaping upon the mountains and skipping upon the hills As a bundle of myrrh be thou to me and ly all night between my breasts Because of the savor of thy good oyntments thy name is as oyntment powred out therefore desire I to go out of the desert and through to the place where thou sittest at thy repose and where thou makes thy flocks to rest at noon When shal I be filled with thy love Certainly if a man knew how precious it were he would count all things dross and dung to gain it I would long for that scaffold or that ax or that cord that might be to me that last step of this my wearisom journey to go to thee my LORD Thou who knowst the meaning of the spirit give answer to the speaking sighing and groaning of the spirit Thou who hast inflamed my heart to speak to thee in this silent yet love-language of ardent and fervent desires speak again unto my heart and answer my desirs which thou hast made me speak to thee O Death where is thy sting O grave where is thy victory The sting of Death is sin and the strength of sin is the Law but thanks be to GOD that giveth me the victory through JESUS CHRIST What can be troublesome to me since my LORD looks upon me with so amiable a countenance And how greatly do I long for these embracements of my LORD O that he would kiss me with the kisses of his mouth for his love is better then wine O that my soul were the throne wherein he might dwel eternally O that my heart were the Temple wherein he might be magnified and dwel for ever c. If there were no more but these heavenly breathings of soul they do speak forth what earnest desires and groanings this holy Man had for the full enjoyments of GOD and what full assurance of faith he enjoyed As he was extraordinary in prayer so he was marvellously diligent in the rest of his Masters Work For as I was assured by an old reverend and godly Minister who knew the truth thereof he preached twise every week day from nine to ten in the morning and from four to five at night beside his work on the LORDS Day and catechising and visiting of families and of the sick In his preaching he had a deep impression of the great and dreadful Majesty of GOD upon his spirit that made him speak with great boldness and authority The learned and godly M. Boyd of Trochrig relateth in his Commentary upon the Ephesians chap 6. vers 19.20 praelect 91. pag. 1101. how that M. Welsch being called to preach before the University of Saumur one of the most learned Auditories in France although he

as far in word as ye do in deed the consciences of the poor people would at the last withdraw themselves from under your tyranny and would go out of your fellowship for the safety of their souls so under the cloke and pretence of the Scripture ye keep them in your communion And surelie were not for this cause only you would regard no more of the testimony of the Scripture then of the testimony of the fables of Esop For the chief authority and all the surety and certainty of all Religion with you as Bellarmin de sacr lib. 2. cap. 25. and Stapleton lib. 1. cont Whitaker cap. 10. confesses is not the testimony of the Scripture but the authority of your own Church So I assure thee Reader it is but for a show that they bring forth the Scripture to prove the heads of their Religion Let the matter therefore be tryed betwixt us by these examples which ye set down here M. Gilbert Brown 1. We say with Saint Augustin Epist 28. ad Hier. that the Sacrament of Baptism is so necessary to infants that they cannot come to heaven without the same which is contrary to their negative saith where they call it the Popes cruel judgement against infants departing without the Sacrament First I say that Christ taught the same doctrine in these words Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter in the Kingdom of God John 3.5 We say this is spoken properly of the Sacrament of Baptism because there is no regeneration of water and the Spirit of God but in Baptism The same is the doctrine of the Apostles also When they exspected the patience of God saith S. Peter in the days of Noe when the Ark was building in the which few that is eight souls were saved by water whereunto Baptism being of the like form now saves you also 1. Pet. 3.20.21 And S. Paul saith For as many of you as are baptized in Christ have put on Christ Galat 3.27 And Ananias said to S. Paul And now what tarriest thou rise up and be baptized and wash away thy sins invocating his name Acts 22.17 and 2.38 And S. Paul himself in another place Christ hath saved us by the washing of regeneration and renovation of the holy Ghost Tit. 3.5 Rom. 6.3.4 1. Cor. 6.11 Mark 16.16 I think there is no Christian reader that sees these places but he must say that Baptism is most necessary to infants except he will believe rather the exposition of the Ministers then the Word of God Maister John Welsch his Reply First ye begin at the necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism whereof ye affirm that it is so necessary that infants cannot come to heaven without the same As for Baptism we grant that it is a most effectual seal and pledge of our ingrafting in Christ Jesus and of the remission of our sins through his blood and regeneration through his Spirit so that either the neglect or the contempt of it because it is the neglect and contempt of the covenant it self and of Christ Jesus the foundation of the covenant is damnable But that it is so absolutly necessary to infants that without it they cannot come to heaven to wit these whom he hath predestinat it being neither neglected nor contemned but death preventing the receiving of it that we allutterly deny as impious ungodly and cruel For first I say there is none that is in the covenant of grace and who hath God to be their God and are holy that can perish This you cannot deny But the children of the faithful who are of his secret election are such before they be baptized And this I prove The Lord promised to Abraham I will be thy God and the God of thy seed Gen. 17.17 And this Peter also testifies The promise saith he is made to you and to your children Acts 2.39 And the Apostle saith That the children of the faithful are holy 1. Cor. 7.14 Therefore the children of the faithful who are of Gods secret election suppose they die without Baptism do not perish Secondlie if Baptism were absolutly necessary to salvation then the grace of God were bound to the Sacrament This cannot be denyed But your Master of Sentences saith that the grace of God is not bound to the Sacraments and it is impious so to think that Gods free grace and salvation is bound to the instrument Thirdlie if Circumcision was not absolutly necessary to salvation in the Old Testament then Baptism is not absolutly necessary now because Circumcision was as straitly enjoyned to them as Baptism is enjoyned to us and Baptism is suceeded in the room of the same but Circumcision is not absolutly necessarie For Lombardus is rebuked by the Doctors of Paris because he so thought And David doubts not to say of his child who died the seventh day and so before he was circumcised I shal go to him c. and so he pronounced that he was saved and all the time that they were in the wilderness almost 40 years Circumcision was neglected which plainly shows that it was not so absolutly necessary that salvation could not be obtained without it Therefore Baptism is not so absolutly necessary to salvation as ye suppose for the grace of God is of no less force in the New Testament then it was in the Old Fourthlie we read of sundry that received the holy Ghost before they were baptized and seeing the holy Ghost where he is regenerats to eternal life Therefore life eternal is not bound absolutly to Baptism Fifthlie what a cross and disturbance is this that your doctrine brings to the consciences of all these parents whose children have been prevented by death before they could be offered to be baptized If they believe your doctrine how often will this come in their mind that their children are damned And seeing the infants themselves are not in the cause that they are not baptized but their death preventing by Gods providence or the Parents neglecting or contemning the same or persecution or one impediment or other hindering wherefore are ye so cruel to judge them to be damned for that whereof themselves are causeless And last of all if ye be acquainted in the Histories of the Church of God in the first age ye will find many that delayed to be baptized until their latter age which they would never have done if they had thought it simpliciter necessary to salvation as ye do And Ambrosius doubts not to say That Valentinian wanted not the grace of Baptism suppose he wanted Baptism it self the which he would never have said if he had thought it absolutly necessary to salvation And Bernard saith I cannot altogether despair of the salvation of them who wants Baptism not through contempt but only through impossibility to get it And in that same place he saith So also if our Savior Christ for this cause when he had said he that believeth and is baptized shal be saved did

let us read why do we strive Ireneus saith lib. 4. contra haeres cap. 63. That the lawful exposition of the Scripture which hath no peril with it is according to the Scripture themselves What can be more plain M. Gilbert And I ask you further Would you have vs to ascribe more to the interpretation of the Fathers then the learned of your Church do As Cajetan a Cardinal in Praefat. in Comment in lib. Mosis and Doctor Andradius the first saith That God hath not tyed the exposition of the Scripture unto the exposition or sense of the Fathers If God hath not bound it as he saith why then should we bind it Wherefore there he desires the Reader Not to mislike it if sometimes in the expounding of them he fall into a sense agreeable to the text though it go against the stream of the Fathers If he speak truth then that sense that is agreeable to the text suppose it be against the stream of their expositions is to be received and preferred before them And Andradius that learned man saith That the Fathers spake not Oracles when they exponed the Scriptures but might therein be deceived Defens fid Trident lib. 2. And he saith more That the oversights of the translation which they followed must needs cause them sometimes to miss the meaning of the holy Ghost And yet you would have the sense of the Scriptures to be decided by them who sometimes have missed the meaning of the holy Ghost And he concluds in the end That the holy Ghost is the only and faithful interpreter of the Scriptures Thus the fairest flowers of your garden and chiefest pillers of your Faith have written So that if they speak true whom I know not if ye will presume to contradict the exposition of the Scripture is not tyed unto the exposition of the Fathers and it is lawful to go with the text against the stream of their expositions And whereas you say if I will be as good as my word the matter will soon be ended I am glad of it if you think as you speak My word was M. Gilbert as your self hath written it that there be very few points of controversie between us wherein I will not get some testimonies of sundry Fathers of the first six hundred years proving with us against them meaning your Church And I desired any man to set me down any weighty point of controversie one or mo and he should have the proof of it These were my words Now ye say if I will be as good as my word the matter will soon be ended Whither I have been as good as my word in this or not let the Reader judge And I appeal your conscience M. Gilbert before the Lord in the great day whither it be true or not For not only in that example of Justification which ye cast in but almost in all the heads which are debated among us I have brought in sundry testimonies of sundry Fathers with us against you Yea I have been better then my word in that For I have brought in testimonies of sundry that lived after the six hundred years and not of these only but also testimonies of sundry of your own Doctors Jesuits Cardinals Bishops Canons Councils and Popes proving with us in some points against your selves I look therefore M. Gilbert that ye shal be as good as your word and that the matter shal end here between you and me For both you have said that the matter would soon end if I were as good as my word and also ye have promised and subscribed with your hand to reform your Religion in all things wherein it is not conform to their testimonies The which if you do then must you renounce the supremacy of your Pope the sacrifice of your Mass your Transubstantiation your Justification by works your Merits of works your perfect fulfilling of the Law of God your erroneous opinions that the Church cannot err that the Scripture should not be Judge with sundry others For in all these I have brought the testimonies of sundry Fathers and in some of them the testimonies of your own Doctors Councils Canons and Popes with us against you Either therefore take shame and falshood for ever more upon you or else keep your word and your writ which ye have subscribed here and reform these points of your Religion As for that calumny wherewith ye charge us to have taken away a great part from the Scripture I know you mean the Apocrypha which bears not the mark and stamp of Gods Spirit as being neither written by Prophets nor yet the most part of them in the prophetical language the Hebrew tongue wherein all the Old Testament was written except some things of Daniel and Ezra which were written in the Chaldaick language which was known then to the Jews nor yet received as Canonical by the Church of the Jews which your (a) Bellar. lib. 1. cap. 10. Church will not deny Nor yet acknowledged Canonical by the testimonies of sundry (b) Melito lib. 4. cap. 26. Euseb Origen lib. 6. cap. 25. Euseb Athan. in synop Hilar. in prolog explan Psalm Cyrill in 4. catechis Ruffinus in expos symboli Hieron in prologo galeato Fathers (c) Synod Laodicen Canon 59. confirmed by the Council Trullan Councils and of your (d) Greg. Mag. in comment in Jobum lib. 19. cap. 16. Hugo Cardinalis in prolog Josuae Cajetan Cardinal in fine comment Hester Arias Montanus who was present at the Council of Trent in aeditione quadam Hebraicorum Bibliorum interlinearium interpretationum selves also Papists of great name some rejecting all some more some fewer containing also many things repugnant to the truth of God set down in the Canonical Scripture Last of all wanting that majesty of Gods Spirit which so evidently shines in the Canonical Scripture And therefore most justly say we that ye underly the curse of God pronounced in his Scripture Rev. 22.18 for the adding unto the holy truth of God And look to it M. Gilbert what you will say to your Cardinal Cajetan who hath denyed sundry Books and parts of the Canonical Scripture in the New Testament Master John Welsch Now if the first thing I offer me to prove be sound of verity that is that our Religion is that self-same and no other then that that Jesus Christ preached and his Apostles and theirs is not so but devised by the man of sin and that Antichrist that whore of Babylon then the plea is won But if I prove the second also then I hope they will never open their mouth to speak evil of the truth of God as though it were but a new Religion M. Gilbert Brown When M. John proves the thing that he is not able to prove we shal do the thing that we are not able to perform but it is a wonder of him to put in so many ifs and doth nothing to the matter For it is a true

it and the infants and Adam would have died suppose they had not sinned 36. Also they affirmed that after the fall there was left in man a freedom to will good and so doth the Papists suppose they differ in this that the Papists joyn grace to be a preveener and worker with free-will 37. The Pelagians affirmed that the Gentils might by Philosophie have known God and been saved So Andradius a Papist lib. 3. orthod explic So Catharinus a Papist who was present at the Council of Trent affirms in his Commentary upon 1. Tim. 4. That some unfaithful men may be saved Which is as much to say as some may be saved who know not God nor Christ Which is horrible and more then Pelagian 38. Also they affirmed that a man may fulfil the Law and be perfectly righteous So do all the Papists 39. They affirm that infants want original sin So doth Pighius a Papist in his Book of Controversies in the controversie of original sin That in them that are baptized original sin is taken away And he writes also That Mary was born without original sin And Thomas of Aquin writes That Mary had the fulness of all grace In 3. parte summae quaest 27. art 7. Which is to equal her with God For only in him the fulness of all dwelleth And many other heresies of the Pelagians have the Papists renewed 40. A kind of hereticks called Anomi taught that the obedience to the Law was not needful So do the Papists First in affirming That concupiscence without consent is not sin and is not forbidden in the Law Secondly some of them say as Sylvester Prierias It is honesty saith he but not of necessity that God should be loved above all things And so Molanus another Papist affirmeth de theolog pract tract 3. cap. 16. concl 1. num 11. The same Molanus also saith That it is not commanded of God that we should pray for our enemies in special cap. 8. concl 3. num 19. And yet the Scripture saith most plainly Pray for them which persecute you And in another place he affirms That it is not commanded that we should salute our enemies with a friendly and loving heart cap. 16. concl 3. And also he saith That he who doth not tell to him who is ignorant his manifest defect is not unrighteous Tract 2. cap. 20. conclus 2. And again he saith He who gives counsel to do a less evil to eschew a greater sins not Cap. 23. conclus 5. Such like contrare the second Command they universally teach That the worship of Images is no break of it And they call the Cross Their only hope What horrible blasphemie is this And Torrensis a Papist objected to Catharinus another Papist in his book de residentia cont Cathar That he denyed the Law of Moses to be Gods Law and the precepts of Paul to be Christs precepts Mo also I might bring but these will suffice Now of these things I may most justly conclud That your Religion hath renewed many of the old condemned heresies And as you made one argument so I will make another What ever was heresie in old times is heresie yet and the defenders thereof hereticks this you cannot deny because it is your own proposition but these former heads which I have set down wherein I have used no calumnie as ye have done was heresies in old times and the defenders thereof hereticks as witness the ancient Fathers therefore they are heresies yet and the defenders thereof hereticks And so by your own argument many points of your Religion are old condemned heresies and your selves hereticks who do defend them SECTION XXVII Concerning Antichrist Master Johns Conclusion ONe thing which I hope will cut off all controversie I offer to prove the Pope to be the Antichrist And if this be true then all men that profess him secretly or openly as it is said in the Rev. 14.10 shal drink of the wine of the wrath of God Master John Welsch Preacher of Christs Gospel at Kirkubright Master Gilbert Brown If this controversie of ours shal not be cut away while M. John prove the Pope to be the Antichrist certainly it will indure ten hundred thousand years after the Laird of Merchistons doomsday Then it must follow seeing that is a thing impossible to be done that all these that will not openly and privatly obey the Pope and reverence him as the Vicare of Christ because he is chosen by God to rule his Church here on earth that they must drink of the wine of the wrath of God Our merciful Lord illuminat M. John with his holy Spirit and grace that he may understand the truth and receive the same and so become a member of his true Church whereby he may be partaker of the merits of Christ that his soul may be safe Amen Master Gilbert Brown Priest and defender of the Catholick Faith Master John Welsch his Reply It is not impossible to prove your Popes to be the Antichrist It hath been proved already by the learned on our side to the which you and all your Clergy of Rome is not able to answer It hath been taught and sealed with the blood of infinit number of Christians And I have not taken so long a term as you have set down here and yet I hope I have proved it sufficiently Put all your might to disprove it if you can And as to that threatning of yours M. Gilbert wherein ye say that all those who will not openly and privatly obey the Pope c. must drink of the wine of the wrath of God If it may be believed then how doth this stand first with your Popes pardons whereby he gives men pardon or licence to profess subscribe and swear to our Religion as it is reported that some of your own Religion have confessed it Next how stands it with the dissimulation of your Jesuites and seminary Priests when they come to any place where our Religion is openly professed Thirdly what comfort is this which ye have pronounced to your own poor Countreymen who do not openly avow Papistrie but have subscribed and communicat with us Is this an open profession or not And if it be not if ye be a true Prophet then must they drink of the wine of the wrath of God then must they be condemned in Hell by your judgement because they profess him not openly And last of all if this threatning of yours be true then beside the many infinit thousands who profess him to be the Antichrist you condemn to Hell all the Greek and Eastern Churches who in number far exceed them who obey you and all the Churches that have been six hundred years and more after Christ For they obeyed not the Pope openly nor privatly as Christs Vicare over them as I have proved before And also you condemn a number of your Anti-Popes to Hell with their Cardinals Bishops and Churches who followed them For they gave out themselves to be Popes and

disdain to submit their heads to me and to swear to me their oath of alleageance and fidelity Pope Clement 5. de jurejurando The Pope may depose Kings from their Kingdoms and absolve their subjects from their oath of alleageance and interdict their Kingdoms and set up others in their room Sext. Decretal de sentent re judicata cap. ad Apost item Glossa Childerick King of France was deposed and Pepin set in his room Pope Zachary causa 15. quaest 6. cap. Alius Henry the fourth Henry the fifth Frederick the first Otho the fourth Frederick the second Conradus his son all Emperors were excōmunicat and deposed by the Popes Justinianus Otho the first Frederick the first Henry the fifth Sigismundus Carolus the fifth all Emperors and Monarchs admitted by the Popes of Rome to kiss their feet And if this had been their practise only and not their doctrine this pride and arrogancy might have been imputed to the persons and not to the seat But his doctrine is so Author ceremoniarum lib. 1. 3. The Pope of Rome doth reverence to no mortal man All men of whatsoever dignity or preeminence they are of so soon as they come in the presence of the Pope ought to kneel thrise down and to kiss his feet The Emperor as soon as he sees the Pope with his bare head kneeling to the ground he worships him and kisses his feet The Emperor holds the stirrop while the Pope leaps on So did Constantin the Great saith their Canon Law Dist 96. cap. Constant The Emperor at the banket holds the water to the Pope to wash his hands and brings the first dish to the Popes table And if the Pope be to be carried in a chair he or the King if they be present ought to carry the Pope in the chair on their shoulders So this is clear both by their doctrine and practise how far they have lifted up themselves above the Kings and Monarchs of the world so that Pope Gelasius saith That Emperors are more inferior to Popes then lead is to gold Dist 96. cap. 2. Their superiority over the spiritual power of the Church of Christ hath been shown in part before But for the further proof of it they say That the Pope is above all General Councils and that they take their force and confirmation only by him Pope Marcel dist 17. cap. Synodum And that he is supreme Judge in all controversies of Religion whose judgement is also infallible Bellarm. de Primat Pap. And where God hath ordained all causes among men to be judged by men he hath only reserved the Pope to be judged by himself and that he cannot be judged by any neither of Kings nor of the Emperor nor of the whole Clergy nor of the people Symmachus Pope 99.3 Aliorum Pope Innocentius 9. quaest 3. cap. Nemo And that he is Judge over all the Churches and that without a Council both to absolve and condemn and none to judge of his judgement and all to appeal to him and none from him whose judgement must stand as given out of heaven by the mouth of Peter himself which no man must break or retrait no man must disput or doubt of Anastas quaest 3. cap. Antiquis Item 11. quaest 3. cap. Quamvis cap. Quatuor dist 19. cap. Sic omnes 9. quaest 3 cap. Pater Pope Innocentius 2. art 17. quaest 4. cap. Si quis dist 19. cap. In memoriam Sext. decret tit 7. de renunciatione cap. Quoniam And that in omni re dubiâ that is in all controversies of Religion he must obediently of all the faithful be heard whether he can err or not Bellarm. de Pont. lib. 4. cap. 2. And that he may make lawes to bind the consciences of men cap. 15. and that he may creat new Religions Anton. sum 3. part tit 22. cap. 5. His power over them that are in Purgatory and Hell According to his absolut jurisdiction he hath power to spoil all Purgatory by the communication of his Indulgences and Pardons except only them who have only the Baptism of the Spirit and infants who are in Limbo Patrum Ibidem and these who have not friends to do for them The Pope may absolve from an infinit pain to wit from the pain of Hell as Gregory did who by his prayer absolved the soul of Trajan from the infinit pains of Hell Anton. tit 22. cap. 5. The Pope hath as great power in Purgatory and Hell as that he may deliver as many souls as are tormented there by his Pardons and with all speed place them in heaven and seats of the blessed as he pleaseth Clem 6. in bulla Anton. ibidem cap. 6. His power over heaven and all the powers therein All power in heaven and earth is given to me saith Boniface the 8. The Pope hath so great power in heaven that he may canonize any dead man and place him among the Gods and that against the judgement of his Bishops and all his Cardinals Clemen 6. Bulla Troilus in tract de canonizatione sanct He commands the Angels to take souls out of Purgatory and to carry them to heaven Clem. 6. in Bulla His power is greater then the power of all the Saints Baldus God hath subjected the Angels in heaven to the Pope and he is greater then they in four respects and no less honor is due unto the Pope then to the Angels and then greater saith he for the Pope receives from the faithful adoration and kissing of his feet which the Angel would not permit to be done to him by John Anton. ibidem tit 22. cap. 5. What needs more now for the proof of this mark Doth not he lift up himself above all that is called God who claimes power over heaven and earth and hell This they cannot deny But I assume their own Clarks Doctors Popes and Bulls testifie this which they cannot choose but confess also Therefore of necessity the Popes of Rome have exalted themselves above all that is called God and therefore they are that undoubted Antichrist which was to come and now is come And as they have exalted themselves above all heavenly powers so have they matched themselves with Jesus Christ for these things are only proper to Jesus Christ To have all power given him to have all things subject to him under heaven to be greater then all the Angels to receive that worship which the Angels refuse to command the Angels to make laws to bind the consciences of men to creat and institut new Religions And yet the Pope hath arrogated all these things to himself as hath been proved Therefore he is that undoubted Antichrist For he that makes himself equal to the Son of God lifts up himself above all that is called God this cannot be denyed But the Popes of Rome have done so in challenging to themselves these things which are only proper to the Son of God therefore they must be the Antichrist Further these things are