a Kingdom of Israell nor a Church of Israel though too many of you have preached the Old Testament more then the New for what advantage let the Magistrate judge To the Seventeenth That he may in time say as much of justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as of Truth and so to be a Mystery of Iniquity These are but insinuations to the Magistrate and ghosts of Jealousie which you raise And to put an end to such feares when I make Church and State Magistrate and Ministery Gospell-laws and Civill to be both one then challenge me for that opinion But I have learned that Christs Kingdom and the worlds have a severall Policy and that may be a Law in the one which is not to the other And now is it your Inference or my Principle wrongs the Magistrate An Answer in few words to Master Edwards his second Part of the GANGRENA And to the namelesse Author of a Book called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh MAster Edwards the difference betwixt ye both is this You set your name to more then you know as hath been well witnessed and this man dare set his name to nothing You sin without shame and your Partner is ashamed of what he doth Sin is too powerfull in you against Truth because you shew your selfe and Truth is too powerfull for him because he hides himselfe Master Edwards I shall answer you in these few words but first The Lord rebuke thee even the Lord. 1. If the Image of Christ be in any of those you so persecute how can you answer it to Jesus Christ to cast any dirt on the glory of him 2. If God be in any of those you are so much an enemy to how will you answer it to fight against God any thing of God 3. If any of those be the children of the heavenly Father or the little ones of the Gospell It were better that a milstone were hanged about your neck and you cast into the Sea So Christ tels you 4. What is it to sin against the holy Ghost but to hate the Light once known or to blaspheme the works of the Spirit And you once professed to me you had almost been one of those whom you call Hereticks Oh take heed of that sinâ— there is no more Sacrifice for that And how if the works of those you so judge be wrought in the Spirit shall you ever be forgiven in this world or in that to come Read the words and tremble 5. Doth not the Word bid you restore those that are fallen in meeknesse and tell your brother his fault first betwixt you and him And you never yet came to any of them that I could heare of but print proclaime tell stories to the world of all you heare see know Is Christ in this Spirit Is the Gospell in this straine Will this be peace to your soule hereafter 6. Solomon tels us that a man may seem faire in his own tale till his neighbour search out the matter And how dare you then take all things at one hand and not at anothers How dare you have one eare open for complaints and faults and crimes and the other shut against all defence Did ever Justice do this Did you ever call for their accusers face to face Did you ever traverse Testimonies on both sides And dare you judge thus and condemne thus Shall not the Judge of Heaven and Earth make you tremble for this Injustice Shall he not make Inquisition upon your soule for this bloud 7. Is it any other ground or bottome you stand on in this your way of accusing the Brethren but Paul you say named some and the Fathers named some so and Calvin as you told me the other day when I met you And was there ever crime without some Scripture or shadow of the Word Did not Canterbury on the Scaffold preach a Sermon of as much Scripture and Story for what he did as you can for yours if you should ever preach there He thought ye all Hereticks as you do us he thought he might persecute you as you do us and he had a Word from John Baptist for his manner of death and a Word from the Red sea and Israelites for his death and enemies and a Word from Paul for his Changing Laws and Customes and for his crime of Popery he had a Word fâ—â—m them that feared the Romanes would come and take away their Government Thus Satan and Selfe can paint the worst kind of sin Poore soule Is your conscience no better seated then in such aâ—ery apparitious of Scripture and failings of Fathers Do not you heare the Prayers of those soules you wound pleading with God against your sin Are you not in the gall of bitternesse and bond of iniquityâ— Is not your spirit yet flying when none pursues you Are not your dreames of the everlasting burning and of the worme that never dies Have you no gnawings no flashings no lightnings I am afraid of you Your face and complexion shewes a most sadly parched burnt and withered spirit Methought when I called to you the other day in the street and challenged you for your unanswerable Crime against me in the third page of the last Gangrena in setting my name against all the Heresies you reckon which your own soule and the world can witnesse to be none of mine and your own confession to me when I challenged you How were you troubled in spirit and language Your sin was as I thought upon you scourging you checking you as I spoke I told you at parting I hoped we should overcome you by prayer I beleeve we shall pray you either into Repentance or Shame or Judgement â—re we have done with you But Oh might it be Repentance rather till Master Edwards smite upon his thigh and say what have I done For your Anagram upon my name you do but fulfill the Prophesie They shall cast out your name as evill for the Son of mans sake And for your Book of Jeeres and Stories of your Brethren Poore man It will not be long musick in your eares at this rate of sinning For the namelesse Author and his After-reckoning let all such men be doing for me Let them raile revile blaspheme call Hereticks It is enough to me that they write such vanity they dare not own And now let me tell ye both and all such Pensioners to the great accuser of the Brethren Fill up the measure of your iniquity if ye will needs perish whether we will or no. I hope I rest in the bosome of Christ with others of my Brethren raile persecute do your worst I challenge all the powers of hell that set ye on work while Christ is made unto me righteousnesse wisedome sanctification and redemption And I must tell ye further that since any of the light and glory of Christ dawned upon me since first I saw that Morning-Star of righteousnesse any of the brightnesse of the glory in my heart that heart of mine which
Because the Discipline is an hedge or wall about the Doctrine a goad to the Means of Grace a curb to licentious courses though with many it go but to the outward man that is not to be imputed to the Discipline but their corruptions c. 4. Because where the Discipline hath been rightly chosen and setled God hath blessed it with better fruits as in Scotland where there is no Heresie nor Schism c. 5. For that of Elihu in Job Why do not daies speak c. it makes not for his purpose but that Wisdom is with the ancient and gray-headed to be heard before young or green-headed Counsellors c. Reply To your first That the fault was in the choyce of a wrong Government c. I answer That is the feare now least there should be a choyce of a wrong Government and so the same fault should be committed again And this very Government hath no Image of Divine Right upon it nor hath it warrant in all things from the Word as your self acknowledge To your second That Doctrine and Discipline go together c. Yea pure Doctrine and pure Discipline go rightly together and if either be impure or unsound there is so much the more danger So as this is an Argument rather against you because where Doctrine opens the conscience and lets in any thing of Discipline but that of the pure Word there is one evill only mended with another And for your instance of a Schoolmaster who both teaches and corrects You know we are not to prove but to illustrate by similitudes And that of a Schoolmaster is a fitter illustration for the Pedagogie of the Law and that Discipline then the Gospels You know the Apostle uses it only to that The Law was our Schoolmaster c. Gal. 3. To that of your description of the Government that it is a curb a goad c. I answer There is nothing you say of Government in these words but may be said of any civill Government nay of Prelacy when it was in its primitive form But that only which you ought to say and that which only differences it from all devised forms of men as your Covenant binds you and ought to be your only reason for erecting and setting it up is this Is it the Scriptures form or model Is the people so in the exercise and capacity of it as in the Gospell times If so then you prove something And further All this you say is true in a kind too of Christs Government but yet in some sort communicable with devised Governments The only distinguishing and essentiall marks are not to be a curb and goad but the Scriptures only mark and image and some spirituall operations c. which no other devised form of man hath To your other of the blessings and blessed fruits in Scotland that there is no Heresie nor Schism there Let Master Coleman our learned and pious Brother speak for us both from his experiences And for that Kingdom time will shew whether it will prove to be a blessing or no to want that which you call Heresie or Schism Surely to be free from Heresie and Schism in a Scripture sense it is such a blessing as the whole Gospell cannot patern What No Heresie in a whole Kingdom No Schism in a whole Kingdom Never such a pure Church heard on Corinth Ephesus Colosse Jerusalem Antioch all not comparable The worst I wish our Brethren there is that all were so pure as we heare on Indeed Scotland had the honour to awaken us first in the work of Reformation and Liberty but lest Scotland should be puffed up England shall have the glory I hope to improve that liberty to a fuller light which some would close up too soon in the narrownesse of a Presbytery Methinks there is something of this nature considerable in the Lutherans who though they follow the first Light in Germany yet the Lord hath suffered them to stick there without a fuller Reformation that the first may be last and the last be first For if a State be covenanted so close to the Word they had need be favourable and free to all that are accordingly covenanted for each mans conscience is the Interpreter in himself of what makes for or against the Covenant he takes and by this very Covenant you are all to be tender to consciences because the Spirit of God not power of men can intterpret the Will of God but in their civill and prudentiall things only they may interpret themselves To that of Job That with the ancient is wisdom and with the gray-headed which you apply in way of reproach to the younger whom you call as it were green-heads I answer That the elder I esteem as fathers and the younger we know are such in whom the Lord speaks more gloriously as he himselfe saith Your young men shall see visions and upon your sons and daughters I will powre out my Spirit your old men shall dream dreams Now whether is it more excellent to dream dreams or to see visions The Lord delivered Israel by the young men of the Provinces Surely we may more safely hearken to the younger that see visions of Reformation then to the elder that dream dreams of it only Master Ley's Resolution pag. 15 16. There is great disproportion of times Men were then converted from Paganism and while they were so they were uncapable Our Congregations in England are professed Christians and though there be many not so wrought on by the Word c. That is rather a reason for the establishment of it Ezek. 22. 26 1 Cor. 4. 21. Prov. 23. 13 14. Nor can Sabbath nor Sacraments be administred without it Reply To that of the disproportion you speak on of times and conversion c. I answer The Apostle's and Primitive times are the times we are to looke at for a patern and modell 'T is true there is great disproportion for they were Apostles who gave the government then yet are but private Divines as you say by me if you be compared with them For that of the conversion from Paganism to Christianity There is no such disproportion there neither but that very proportion which our Saviour hath himself foretold and set forth For how doth a Iewish and Antichristian State differ Nay how doth a Heathenish or Paganish State differ from an Antichristian or Parochiall State as Parochiall or Parish is in that notion Christ hath put them that are out of the Church under that very notion Matth. 19. 17. and the spirit in the Revelation makes the Antichristian State to be as unlawfull as a Paganish and cals out equally from that as from the other as by comparing 2 Cor. 6. 17. Rev. 18. 4. together will appeare So as speaking of things and notions I cannot but speake in a Scripture way nor am I uncharitable in this neither though I thus speak I looke on thousands in this State as godly beleevers It is not the
that the cords bruised his shoulders and made them swell as bigg as a penny â—oase and the Warden made him be gagged as if he would teare his jawes Answer THat the graduall subordination is made good by Mr Rutherford c. Is this reasoning or reference And this you have done all along referred us either to your selfe or some other to answer for you That your Presbyteries are not so singular more free convenient more peaceable more Apostolicall more Authorized then other Churches These are good commendations but had halfe so much been proved by the Word your Government had passed before this For that of Sacriledge and usurpation upon God in alienating Tythes never did Prelate no nor Bishop Mountague plead an higher title for tythes What sacriledge and usurpation to deny Tythes Where are you in the Covenant or no is it not a Parliament Ordinance you take them by and will you set up a Divine Right over that now surely they may justly now withdraw their Ordinance for Tythes and leave you to your Divine Right and see what the people will pay you To that of your commending old men and age I reverence age and old men but not the old man in them And for dreames being more excellent then visions It is a curious speculation and enough may be said for both yet if you take Visions more spiritually they are a more glorious way of Revelation then that of dreames but what are these dreames to yours Surely Reformation in bloud or by persecution is but a dream of such as have slept long in Prelacie Why are you so much in the defence of jeasting and so serious in your Scripture proofes for it take heed of strengthening corrupt nature by Scripture God and Eliah saw errors more cleerely then you or I who may assoon laugh at the Scripture it selfe as something beside it And for other Church-Governments not comming under the tryall of Parliament nor comming out by their authority I know not any that would not humbly lay downe their Scripture-order to that honourable Senate and rejoyce that they would take it up to discusse and for not comming out under their authority I know none of the rest so ambitious or troublesome to the Magistrate as to solicite them to compell their order upon all their Brethren and all must be Hereticks and Schismaticks that will not though they cannot beleeve so For Gospell-patterns being as much in the letter as the Legall because written are you such a stranger to the Spirits notion of Letter and Spirit in the New Testament Know you not that the Temple or Legall Worship before was said to be in the Oldnesse of the Letter Know you not that Gospell-patternes are more seen by the Spirit now then before and though both be written and in Letter yet not both equally litterall but the one more glorious in the ministration the other lesse For that of the suffererâ— Mr Prynn Mr Burton Mr Lilburne and Mr Bestwick And Mr Lilbourne written in such capitall Letters of blâ—â—â—d as you justly say and can you name these and call for the power in your hands as you do Can you thus remember Prelates and yet petition to be such Presbyters Can you see these yet bleeding and desire to persecute by such a President of Bloud FOr Salmasius his testimony with the Baptisme in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ and his testimony that the Presbyterâ— is but of humane and positive right not of Divine He is mine and not yours and all youâ— paines and quarrelling and after quotations cannot make him more yours or lesse mine and it is no little disadvantage to you that one so great a Schollar as your whole Assembly affords any hath thus witnessed with the truth which so many Schollars oppose C. D. his Treatise printed with Master Ley's Book in Master Ley's Commendation whether made by himselfe or some other he best knows HIs Title is One of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster And there you might have known of what account he was among his Reverend Brethren He was chosen Chaire man of the Committée of examination of Ministers and of the Committée of Printing and one of the Tryers and one of the Ordainers of Ministers next after the two Doctors Chaire-man I remember not any of the Apostles in such Offices and Titles You might have known him by his Pattern of Piety his Book on the Sabbath by divers Sermons of his â—â— Print his Annotations on the Pentateuch and he hath much more prepared for the Presse then is already printed All which are approved by those most able to judge of iudicious and learned Laboure Give them leave to speak themselves in this point The Greek Anagram made on his name when President of Sion Colledge THE SUN IN SION with Verses If the Sun be there why no more Light there then For his Name you would think it too venerable c. John in the Hebrew signifies Grace and Ley in Spanish the Law With some Letters in his Commendation in pag. 19 20. c. THus I have gathered up all in your Book that concernes you materially and your friend printed on the backside of yours And for other particulars more substantiall your Books and mine are both abroad let them speak for themselves the Readers must now judge in the Spirit what we both write in the Letter for I intend not to puzzle the world with any more of this Controversie Some Truth may be seen and what is more is but you and I. SIR I was unwilling to set your failings before you and the world but since you printed them once over in mistake I thought I might print them over in a cleerer letter that you may see things for Errours which before you took for Truths Conclusion THus I have replyed to your Positions not to your passions nor reproaches in which you are something larger then I had thought becomes an Orthodex Divine And for the dirt you cast in my face I have only wiped it off without casting it back on yours I had rather let it fall in the Channell which best becomes it For your Revilings sleightings and railings if they trouble not your selfe to write the Presse to print and the Reader to read I promise you they trouble not me And though I am much below many yet I am in this above you that I can forgive you by how much he that can pardon is greater then he that offends I thanke you for your ill usage you cannot do that against me which works not for my good for I am learning to blesse them that curse me to pray for them that despightfully use me And truly this advantage I shall make of your taxing me for faults which I have not To taxe my selfe of the many other faults which I have indeed which you and the world see not FINIS REASONS FOR Vnitie Peace and Love WITH AN ANSWER Called Shadows
will not heare me speak But you would have the best assurance from tryall but so far I say not as you say is that the best Spirituall assurance that is from our own Spirits in part or from Gods alone from our own reasoning or his speaking Can a Spouse argue better the love of her friend from his Tokens and Bracelets or from his owne word and Letter and Seale One of the three that beare witnesse on Earth is the Spirit and in whom after ye believe ye were sealed with that Spirit of promise Can any Inference or Consequence drawn from Faith or Love or Repentance or Obedience in us so assure us as the breathing of Christ himself sealing assuring perswading convincing satisfying I will hear what God the Lord will say for he will speak peace to his Servants A Saint had rather hear that voice then all its own Inferences and Arguments which though they bring something to perswade yet they perswade not so answerably till the voyce speake from that excellent glory To your eighth That I clog men with conditions of receiving as well as you of repenting c. I answer I preach not Receiving as a condition as you do Repenting I Preach Christ the Power and Life and Spirit that both stands and knocks and yet opens the doore to himselfe I Preach not Receiving as a gift or condition given or begun for Christ but Christ working all in the Soul and the Soul working up to Christ by a power from himselfe And if you would Preach Repentance and Obedience as no other preceding or previous dispositions we should agree better in the Pulpit then we do in the Presse To your ninth That the sum of my Divinity is That men may be saved whither they Repent or no or beleeve or no. I answer Should I say to you The sum of your Divinity is this That Faith and Repentance and Obedience are helps with Christ and conditions with Christ to mans Salvation and that Salvation in not free but conditionall the Covenant of Grace is as it were a Covenant of Workes Should I do well in this to upbraib you and those of your way Say not then that I thinke men may be saved that never repent nor believe Why do you thus set up and counterfeit opinions and then engrave our Names upon them Could not I piece up your Book so if I would be unfaithfull as make ye appeare as great an Hereticke as any whom you thus fancy because I preach not Repentance or Faith as you do because I make all these as gifts from Gods love in Christ not as gifts to procure us God or his love or Christ because I make all these the fruits of the Spirit given to such whom Christ hath suffered for to such whom God hath chosen in him because I Preach Faith and Repentance and Obedience in that full Revelation in which they are left as in the New Testament and not in that scaâ—tling of Doctrine as they are meerly and barely revealed in the History of the Gospel or Acts of the Apostles onely where the Doctrine is not so much revealed as the Practise and the Story in Summaries because we Preach thus therefore we are all Antinomians Hereticks men not worthy to live Brethren must ye forbid us to Preach because we follow not with you because we Preach not the Law as ye do nor Faith as ye do nor Repentance as ye do therefore do we not Preach them at all We Preach them all as we are perswaded the New Testament and Spirit will warrant us and as we may make Christ to be the power of all and fulnesse of all as we may exalt him whom God hath exalted at his own right hand And we wish that ye and all that heare us were both almost and altogether as we are except in reproaches CONCLVSION FRom the 29 Page to the last all your Replyes amount not to any thing of substance but of quarrelsome and humorous exceptions and I shall I hope redeem my time better then in making a businesse of things that will neither edify the Writer nor the Reader There are some things you might had you pleased raised up into some Spirituall discourse as that of Works and Signs for assurance c. But you say of your self how becoming such a one as you I leave that you were like an Old Steed which neighs and prances but is past service so as I must take this of your age and infirmity as a fuller Answer or Supplement to what you faile in against me There are two or three things more observable then the rest 1. That you tax me for saying That the markes in Johns Epistles and James are delivered rather as marks for others then our selves to know us by and I affirme it againe not as you say excluding that other of our selves but as I said rather markes for others though for both in their degrees and kindes of manifestation So in James 2. 24. where he saith By Workes a man is Justified not by Faith So in Vers 18. 21. All which set forth Works a signe to others rather then our selves So in 1 John 3. 14. Hereby know we we are passed from death to life because we love the Brethren compared with Ver. 17. 18. shewes That it is a love working abroad in manifestation to the Brethren and yet I exclude not any evidence which the fruits of the Spirit carry in them as in my Book which yet you alleadge to that purpose after you have been quarrelling so long with it pulling my Treatise in pieces to make your selfe worke and then binde it up againe after your owne fashion For your Story of your Lady and your fallacy That she might as well conclude her selfe damned because she was a sinner as one that Christ would save because she was a sinner And durst you thus sport with a poor wounded spirit that perhaps could see little but sin in her selfe to conclude upen Know you not that Christ came to call sinners to save sinners And durst you make use of your Logick to cast such a mist upon the promises to sinners Suppose one should aske you how you gather up your assurance now you are an old man how would you account to us Would you say such a mâ—asure of Faith so much obedience so much love to the Brethren so much Zeale Prayer Repentance and all of unquestionable evidence But if we should go further and question you concerning your failings when you writ in the behalfe of Cards and Dice of the Common-Prayer-Book if we should aske ye of your luxuriarcy in quotations in your Books and Sermons whether all be out of pure zeale no selfishnesse no vain-glory Whether all your Love was without bitternesse to your Brethren of a diverse judgement whom you call Antinomian c. Whether you preached and obeyed all out of love to Iesus Christ and not seeking your own things not making a gaine of
Some Drops of the Viall powred OUT IN A SEASON WHEN IT IS Neither Night nor Day OR Some Discoveries of Iesus Christ His Glory in severall BOOKS viz. 1. The New Quaere 2. The Opening of the Vindication 3. The Smoake in the Temple 4. The Groanes for liberty 5. The Divine Right of Presbytery discussed 6. An End of One Controversie 7. Reasons for Vnity Peace and Love And Shadowes flying away All which Books are here reprinted in one Booke entirely after the severall Impressions of them and presented to the Reader 1 King 19. 11 12. But the Lord was not in the Winde and after the Winde an Earthquake but the Lord was not in the Earthquake and after the Earthquake a fire but the Lord was not in the fire and after the fire a still small voice and the Lord was in that By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. TO HIS EXCELLENCY Sir THOMAS FAIRFAX Generall of all the Forccs raised for the PARLIAMENT Right Honourable THe severall pieces thus rallied were never writ in my own power or appointment but I had commonly some juncture of Providence and something of a Spirit not my own upon me for I observed I could not write when I would my Springes were not in me nor could I end when I would till I had finished this Testimony and for something of God here I am sure there is enough of man of my selfe Thus is Gods appearing while we are in the Body he was in Christs which had no sin but he is not so in ours which are full of sin I have some few things to say and they ars things of duty from me and of truth to you that God hath filled the story of your life with himselfe with his Power Wisdome and Love and all that he may be your fulnesse and that you would glory in the Lord Let me remind you how you have seen him from Leedes to Bradfoorth to Wetherby to York to Hull even from Yorkeshire to Lincolneshire from thence to Naseby and so through the Conquest of Cities Towns Castles through so much almost as a Kingdom comes to And now after all this enter into your rest even the love of God the Son of God and there refresh your selfe in his light in his glory in the bosome of his love there are pleasures for evermore this is a piece of your coursest worke to beare the Sword for him who is the Power of God upon Earth for the punishment of evill doers in the world the more glorious worke is your Spirituall where Principalities and Rulers and Spirituall wickednesse in high places flesh and bloud are all against you and yet you above them all in him through whom you are more than Conquerour even him that loved you Sir Let it be not your busines only to Conquer as a man but as a Saint not as a Souldier but as a Christian not in the spirit of man but of God Let not a sin a lust a temptation stand more before you in the body then an enemy in the field gird on your spirituall Armour your Shield of faith your brestplate of righteousnesse your Sword of the Spirit your Helmet of Salvation and put on your white lining which is the righteousnesse of the Saints and follow him who rides on the white Horse in a vesture dipt in the bloud of his sufferings whose name is the Word of God and tell me if ever there was Glory like unto this Glory I cannot reckon the mighty men of valour in the world any thing but a worldly glory which if it dyed not with them or some ages after them yet can live no longer than the life of the world all these things are perishing but to be a man of the holy Spirit a man borne of God a man that wars not after the flesh a man of the Kingdom of God as well as of England Thus you shall live beyond time and age and men and the world gathered up into the life which is Eternall and was with the Father Sir Your dwelling now is much in the shadow of death and amongst the Graves and therefore so live in Christ your life that you may have one life more then men can kill men can only kill the man not the Christian. Sir I will not praise you but blesse God for you and his Image in you this will make great men love God and not themselves to speake of them as his not as their own Now Sir so warre that you may be still a man of peace in the midst of battell and of compassions in the midst of sufferings never wearing your Laurell without some Olive that all may know when you act as a Magistrate and as your selfe when you act from power or when from love from Justice or when from mercy So love as you may love God and Christ in men more then men and the Spirit in any more then the Forme either of Presbytery or Independency Thus Brethren who can now scarcely love one another because of that shall love you and shall learne to love one another from you Noble Sir Your humble servant IOHN SALTMARSH A New Quaere At this time seasonably to be considered as we tender the advancement of TRVTH PEACE Viz. Whether it be fit according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdome hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers By IOHN SALTMARSH Preacher of the Word at Brasteed in Kent 2 Cor. 10. 8. Our authority which the Lord hath given for Instruction and not for destruction LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Signe of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1646. A Quaere Whether it be â—it according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdom hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers _1 THe Rules laid down in the Word for practicall Obedience are these in part Let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind Rom. 14. 5. ver 23. and whatsoever is not of faith is sin Now the setling of any Government upon a people who are yet generally untaught in the nature and grounds of it is to put upon the people the practice of that wherein it is impossible they can be fully perswaded in their minds and so either on a necessity of sin or misery 2 There is great danger of bringing people under a Popish implicite Obedience by forcing on a practice of that which they scarce know or know but in part And this is against the Nationall Covenant to side with any Principles of Popery And we know it by experience that the people have been ever devoted to any thing the State sets up all the disputes or conscience of the common people usually ending in this Whether it
be established by Law or no and going usually no higher nor further then a Statute or Act of State for their Religion 3. Christ Iesus himselfe could as easily have setled his Gospell-Government by miracle as any can now by a Civill power if there had been such a primary or moral necessity of establishing it so soon upon a people scarce enlightned for any part of it But we see the contrary first in himselfe he taught long and Iohn before him and so the Disciples and the gâ—â—â—s for Government were not given till he ascended and the Modell for Government not brought forth but by degrees and as people fell in and were capable of the Yoake and would â—ould more easily to the Commandements of Christs and whether then or no is yet a Question which some who have sit out the debates too though not with me who am fully assured of a power of order which the Apostle rejoyced to behold though a power with as little dominion in Government as tradition in Worship 4. We never read in the new Testament of a Gospell-government setled upon any that were not brought first under Gospell-obedience by the power of the Word and Spirit which thousands of Congregations in this Kingdom are not For as in materiall Buildings Stone and Timber are not to be clâ—pt together without howing and squaring so nor in the spirituall And whereas in the Temple there should neither be Axe nor Hammer heard because things were fitted before hand and so laid together I question how this could be in our Congregations now I beleeve there would be now more of the Axe and the Hammer heard then of the building seen 5. We have found by experience that the speedy setling of Government upon the Nation hath made Reformation take little root save in the outward man or formall Obedience and the reason was Because they received not Reformation first in the power of the Word but of the State which went not so deep into their Consciences but they could part with it at any time upon a Law Oh then Why do not daies speake and multitude of yeares teach knowledge 6. It is against the nature of Christs description of himselfe and against that sutablenesse which he presses for amongst all such as should submit to his Commandements He shall not strive nor cry neither shall any man heare his voyce in the streets Matth. 11. 19. My yoke is easie and my burden light Matth. 11. 29. His Commandements are not grievous 1 Joh. 5. 3. Neither do men put new wine into old bottles All which cannot be fulfilled in the Parochiall Congregations 7. The more time for trying the spirits and proving all things there is lesse danger to that State of errings in things received and authorized and of involving it selfe into the designes of Ecclesiasticall power then which nothing hath sooner broken the Civill power as may be seen in Popish Kingdoms and our late Prelaticall There can be no great danger in the not sudden incorporating the two powers Since Moses is not alive to bring down the just Paterne of the Tabernacle there may a new Star arise which was not seen at first which if we shut up our selves too soone while the smoake is in the Temple cannot appeare 8. We have not yet any experiment of our new Clergie who are many of them branches of the old stock and so may weild the Government too much of the Episcopall Faction as the Samaritans did with the Iewish Government because they were not naturall Iews It is not safe trusting a power too far into those hands Our Brethren of Scotland have been more used to the way of Presbytery and may better trust one another upon mutuall experience then we can yet 9. We experience in part some remainders of Prelacy working in many which shewes a constitution not so cleare nor pure as the Disciples of Christ should have then whether it be safe committing the power too suddenly For though I question not but some may be like the ten yet there are others like the two Brethren who strove which should be greatest till the Lord ended the difference It shall not be so amongst you We find the hottest Controversie is now moved about Church-government and there hath been most written and spoken this way and in most violence Now when the contention for power is so much and the Controversie streames most in Government we may soon discerne dispositions Well is it good parting with the stakes yet while there is such quarrelling for them when one party cannot but take it for an injury if wholly given to the other It is to be feared there is too much of man because the bias runs most in these times towards this one truth of government many other are wholly set by which might well be lookt upon with it which if there were not a Principle in man more fitted for a truth of this kind then any other would not be But every truth hath its age and season This only for caution 10. There is no Religion established by State but there is some proportion in the two Powers and some compliancy betwixt the Civill and Ecclesiasticall so as the establishing the one will draw with it some motions in the other And we all see how hazardous it is to disinteresse any in the Civill part even in Kingdomes that are more firme as France where the Protestants are partly allowed their Religion in pay for their Civill engagements and so in other States And sure I am that State is most free where the conscience is least straitned where the Tares and the Wheat grow together till the harvest 11. Our parties or dissenting Brethren being now together and clasped by interest against the common enemy this foundation of common unity is such as may draw in both affections and judgements if not too suddenly determined into Hereticks and Schismaticks It is possible while a Controversie is long suspended and time given for conclusion of things Opinions may be sooner at peace A fire let alone may dye out under that wood which stirred in would kindle it The Contentions of Brethren are like the strong bars of a Castle and a Brother that is offended is harder to be won then a strong City Prov. 18. 19. OBIECTIONS I. BUt the Temple was builded with all speed in Nehemiahs time and therefore c. And Haggai cals to the building Is it time Hag. 1. 4. Answ Yea but the matteriall Patterne was more clearly left and known then the Gospell-patternes The other were more in the letter and these more in the Spirit Now there must be a proving all things else there may be more hast then good speed and the Temple may be built by a false Paterne as well as a true and then better no Building then no right Cedar to build with And there were Prophets then who knew the periods of times and could Prophesie as Haggai and Zechariah but none
Administrations as laid down in the whole New Testament and not by parcels though so much as they did professe in the first time of gathering were rule enough then to them when no more was revealed yet not to us now who have a full Gospell for our learning And this mistake or want of just consideration of times and Scriptures is the ground of all the mistakes Vindication Fol. 41. Why should not the Sacrament doe the like since Gods Spirit equally breathes and works in all his Ordinances and may and doth regenerate and beget grace in mens souls Inference Whence we may infer That it is lawfull according to this Principle to beleeve That if one Ordinance convert any other may whether God hath instituted so or no. We know the Lord hath appointed and ordered every Ordinance to its nature kind and use and Gods institution is to be the rule of our beleeving and reasoning and practising not because such a thing works so therefore any thing works so as that thing works The Author himselfe reasons against this in another place and that there is no right inference but in things of the like kind and under the like precept as thus The Word is able to convert therefore all Preaching and Prophesying is able to convert but not therefore the Sacraments can convert Vindication Fol. 41. The Sacraments are by all Divines whatsoever and the very Directory pag. 52. ever enumerated among the means of Grace and Salvation Why then should they not be the means of converting Inference Whence we may inferre That it is warrantable to expound Divines and the Directory contrary to their intent and meaning and to inferre conclusions from them to prove things which are not only very disputable but unwarrantable as far as any Scripture makes appeare either in any plaine precept or president and especially to turne the Directory being a Publike forme made by the Assembly so much against their sense and meaning as appeares by divers of their judgements of late is an attempt much like that of expounding a Law or Ordinance of Parliament in a private sense not in their own and this quotation of a Directory in this kinde is enough to make it all questionable and to draw on a necessity of a publike interpretation upon it Vindication Fol 41 42. That receiving Sacraments is usually accompanied with effectuall means as serious examinations solemne searching out of all open and secret sinnes with confession contrition humiliation prayers of pardon secret purposes and vowes sundry pious and soul-ravishing meditations of Gods mercy exhortations admonitions by the Ministers And why is not the Sacrament a more fit and apt Ordinance to regenerate convert ungodly and scandalous sinners then the bare Word preached Inference Whence we may infer That there are certaine preparations and qualifications in men meerly unregenerate which are here lifted up into something more then naturall or carnall workings or filthinesse of the flesh as prayers for pardon of sin pious and soul-ravishing meditations with humiliation contrition confession c. Now I would faine know what there is in man before the glorious light of Jesus Christ hath opened his eyes and brought him out of prison out of darknesse into light What kind of prayers can such make What pious meditations can such have of Gods mercy in Christ What contrition is there in such What humiliation Without faith it is impossible to please God and the carnall minde is enmity against God nor is it subject to the Law of God nor indeed can be and they that are in the flesh cannot please God What is all this then of prayers When as the prayers of the wicked are abominable What are all those flourishes and noise of vowes and purposes and contrition and meditations of an unregenerate man when they all are but glorious sins Doe men gather Grapes of Thornes or Figges of Thistles Why should nature be made proud with these expressions And any ground laid for boasting And whereas it is said that the Sacrament is a more apt means to convert then the bare Word preached we may infer some derogating and diminution or lessening implyed here of the Ordinance of the Word or Ministery because it is said Then the bare Word as if so be that the Word were a bare Word when it comes in the power of salvation to regenerate when the Spirit quickens it and makes it a Word of truth of grace the power of God unto salvation and we see the Word or Ministery it selfe is called The Preaching of faith The Ministery of Reconciliation The Sacrament is not called so any where though no lesse glorious neither And Christ and his Apostles and Disciples went every where preaching the Word but not administring the Sacrament but only there where the ministery of the Word had first brought them under the power of the Gospell-Order and Rule for Ordinances of a more spirituall institution Vindication Fol. 4â— That because we behold Christs death and passion more visibly represented to our eyes and hearts in the Sacrament and remission of sinnes more sensibly applied to us then in any other Ordinances therefore it is certainly the most powerfull Ordinance of all others to regenerate and covert with many Scriptures to prove conversion by representation Inference We may infer That because the Lord hath instituted his signe of Bread and Wine in the Supper to his owne end therefore it will serve to any end That we can prove of our owne imagining upon certaine rationall conclusions from Scripture or reason without particular Scriptures authorizing or appointing it to such an end and therefore all these grounds consequences and notions which are formed upon a likelihood and probability are nothing to prove any direct use of the Sacrament to such an end without as I have said a speciall Word Precept or Practise or just Consequence from Scriptures directed to such a proof for else there is scarse any thing but we may reason into a notion of likelihood but faith must have better grounds and not of private interpretation and the Scriptures that are alleadged must not be to prove that things of lively representation may most affect the soul and have done so but that these Scriptures are plainly or powerfully directed by the Spirit of God to prove the very Institution of the Supper to that end which none of those Scriptures prove that are alleadged in Fol. 42. Vindication Fol. 43. That God doth as effectually teach convert and work grace by the eye as eare and therefore were the Sacraments Sacrifices Types Miracles c. Why should not then the visible expressions of Christ in the Sacrament now have the like effectuall converting power Inference We may infer as we have done before That all these are but Why should nots no words of Institution or Authority in the Scripture for it But further the Legall Sacraments c. were carnall and more to the sense and more of representation but these are more
in the spirit under the Gospell we worship now in spirit and in truth not by representations as under the Law And therefore it is that the Gospell-Ordinances are so few so plaine and poore to the eye that the soule may not be taken up with the signe but with things spirituall And we may observe that as little as can be of outward elements are made use on as in Baptisme meere water and in the Supper Wine and Bread and the first Ordinance is called the Baptisme of the Spirit not of water and the Bread and Wine The Communion of the Body and of the Bloud of Christ not Bread and Wine And faith the Apostle If we have known Christ after the flesh henceforth know we have no more And further What is it that is said of grace comming in by the eye This is the way the Papists let in Christ having made the eye rather the Organ for conversion then the eare Now Faith commeth by hearing and therefore all their Idolatrous Pictures their Imagery and theabicall representations are all for the eye and bringing in Christ by Obtick or sense and making conversion to be by perspective and working only an historicall faith And further What is it that is said of working grace by the eye As if the carnall part could advantage conversion by any power there but such a power as is meerly carnall and naturall What can all these signes of the Lord Iesus doe upon a blinde soul as all unregenerate men are What are the glorious colours to him that hath no eyes to see The signes of bread and wine are given for working symbolically or by signe upon a soule or understanding spiritually enlightened before and having a discerning and therefore it is that the Apostle saith He that eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks damnation to himself not discerning the Lords Body which if the Supper had been a converting Ordinance the Apostle would not have charged the unworthy from receiving but rather have encouraged them in their receiving that of unworthy they might have been made worthy But you see he cals for a right discerning of the Lords Body first which cannot be a calling of the unregenerate or unconverted to a partaking because they have no right discerning of the Body of Christ but by the sense first converted Vindication Fol. 44. 1. That the most humbling melting soul-changing sin-purging mollifying meditations of all others are from Christs death and passion c. and therefore c. 2. Afflictions and corporall punishments are converting Ordinances therefore c. 3. That unworthy participating is a meanes of spirituall hardening and so by the rule of contraries a worthy receiving an instrument of conversion 4. All the ends of it are as appeares so spirituall see his Scriptures that how is it possible it should not be Gods intention and Christs Ordination to be a converting Ordination 5. Conversion is a turning of the whole man unto love obedience of God in Christ from the love of the world c. and what engine more powerfull for the forecited respects or spirituall ends 6. Experience in every Christians conscience whose preparations and approaches to this Sacrament were the first effectuall means of their conversion yea they had not been converted if debarred from it Inference We may inferre upon the first That there are soul-melting meditations in a soul unconverted or unmelted and that there are soul-changing meditations in a soul unchanged which the Scriptures never speak on such waies of conversion are no waies in the Word that we read on but hidden paths for the spirit of mans devising Secondly that because afflictions are therefore Sacraments are that is because one thing is therefore another thing is This is but the Old Argument But God may sanctifie any thing at his own pleasure to make way for Conversion and yet that no instituted Ordinance for conversion neither Because some have been converted when afflicted when sick when poor therefore will you first go afflict them and make them sick and poore taking all they have from them that you may convert them and so make them standing Ordinances Thirdly Is a rule of contraries a rule in the Scriptures or in Logick But it is said Worthy receiving is an instrument of Conversion that is Conversion is a meanes of Conversion who can receive worthily till in Christ till converted 4. But all the ends of it are spirituall and how is it possible but then it should convert This How is it possible is like that of Why should it not both of one strength to prove it for though the ends be never so spirituall yet if there be no warrant for any such institution as conversion all the reasons extrinsecall or strange consequences as all such are cannot institute an Ordinance none but God and Christ and therefore the Popish Arguments built upon such forreigne and externall though rationall consequences are not immediate nor intrinsecall enough to warrant any thing of their will-worship 5. But â—â— is a powerfull engine Yea but only for what it is instituted and oâ—dained nor is it lesse excellent because it converts not because every thing is beautifull in its order and place and law of creation 6 But the experiences of Chrictians witnesse who had never been converted if not at the Sacrament But what Christians are these What kind of experiences are these I question the truth of all such conversion who have only such experience as this because that such experience crosses the Word and way of the Spirit and those are no right experiences which are not Scripture-experiences But some had not been converted if debarred from it This is a strange assertion against that of the Word The spirit bloweth where and when it listeâ—â— and some are called at one houre of the day some at another and how is it cleare that the Sacrament converted such or not some other act of the Word at that time or about it Shew me that Christian among so many that can evidence his act of conversion meerely barely singly immediately from the act of communicating and then there is something proved to justifie an experience of Conversion at such a time but still not to justifie the Sacrament an Ordinance-Conversion and so to be used Vindication Fol. 46. Is any Master or Parent so unnaturall and sottish to deny his children or servant wholesome meat to feed their bodies And shall any Minister be so irrationall or inconsiderate in denying the spirituall food Inference Whence we may inferre That the Vindication takes all unconverted persons by this comparison to be alive and spiritually quickned or else it were as he sayes unnaturall sottish irrationall to give them food And if they be unconverted as he pleads for then who is so unnaturall sottish irrational or inconsiderate as to give them any Men onely hold forth food to the living and not to the dead Vindication Fol. 46. Physitians had an errour to deny drink
c. And those Families the children of the Bond-woman and of the free never bearing but persecuting each other So as all of pure spirituall constitution cannot but experimentally finde a spirituall nature in themselves working them into a more glorious fellowship then that of the world The sum of the Argument If then there be two contrary natures of Spirit and Flesh if these cannot nor never could in experience of all Ageâ— and according to the truth in Scriptures and example of all there beare each other into the same spirituall society or fellowship if nature it selfe in the creatures run out into antipathies and sympathies that is into particular gatherings and separations mutuall opposings and resistings of each other when together Then spirituall and unmixt Communion and Fellowship from the world and men of the world is warrantable But all this is undeniably true to the experience of all Therefore spirituall unmixt Communion and Fellowship from the world and men of the world is warrantable II. Argument from the Power of Spirituall Ordinances and Dispensations THe Gospel-Ordinances brought into the World a power and spiritual Law in them though in degrees and measures and severall givings out as in Johns time and his Disciples in Christs owne time and his Disciples and in the Spirits time and according to these times of manifestation believers were wrought upon in Johns time they came out to the Baptism of Water in Christs and his Disciples to the preaching of the Word in the Spirits time to the Bâ—pâ—â—sme of the Spirit to a more mighty and glorious working and all these times of Gospel-manifestation had a prevailing losse and more upon the believers of these severall times in drawing them out from the World in part though weakly in Johns time it is said Then came out unto him all Judea yet though they were Baptised of him they gathered not off into such particular societies as after The Kingdome of God then was but at hand in Christs time though his preaching was powerfull yet he let out the glory of his spirit but sometimes with the Word reserving his more glorious manifestations for other times and even here though Christs preaching gathered in his Apostles and Disciples into some particular and neerer way to himselfe yet not many more nay he rather left many partly in that mixed condition of society he found them and so the Disciples Commission which was given was to preach but little yet of Church gathering but by way of Prophecy as in Matt. 16. and 18. The Kingdome of God was but yet at hand not come In the Spirits time then the Kingdome of God was come and then a mighty operation and measure of the Spirit was powred out and then the believers through the powerfull working were brought more off from the World and began to gather in closer to Christ and one another And now all power was given to Christ which was not before his Resurrection and now he sets up a Kingdome All power is given into my hands and now the Kingdom begins to be set up in the hearts and practice of believers and the Spirit to mold and cast the believers into Brotherhoods and societies and the forme of a Kingdome and now the Laws and spirituall policy are given out for ordering this Kingdome And we see how the people of God in Rome Corinth Ephesus Galatia drew off from the world in the things of the Lord. We see then how the Word did begin to worke Believers into a fellowship from the world and the more the spirit was given the more and more off from the world in all these severall times And it is a rationall truth and a clear conclusion even to meer reason that the more Christ and his Spirit is in any the more neer and close they will gather up to heaven and walkings with God and the more Christward any one is the more off still from the multitude of the world And thus the Ordinances of Jesus Christ in which the Spirit breathes so powerfully worke men off from the mixed world into fellowship with the Lord and that spirituall fellowship makes them rejoyce more in one another then in any other that are more carnall The more men live to Christ the more they dye to the world and are formed into the fellowship of his death and Resurrection The sum of the Argument If then the Ordinances and Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ had ever a power in some degree of prevailing upon the soules of Believers according to the manifestation of the Spirit and if this Spirit flowing from God and Christ carry up the soule to God and Christ according to the measure given to those Beleevers and if the more they are carried towards Christ the more they must come off from the world Then Congregationall or Church-order wherein Beleevers are gathered into fellowship with God in Christ and one another from the world in the things of the Gospell and unmixt communion is warrantable But all this is undeniably true from the Word Therefore Church-fellowship and unmixt Communion is warrantable Argument III. IF mixed communion and society came in upon the Apostacy and falling away and Parochiall Congregations were formed up afterwards from such mixt Communion If as Antichrist prevailed so darknesse and corruption prevailed upon Beleevers If Churches were called Golden Candlesticks before and a Fellowship of Saints and the Body of Christ and Kingdom of God till they grew mixed If the mixt Congregations by Parishes came in first by Dyonisius Bishop of Rome in the yeare 267. and in England by Honorius Bishop of Canterbury and people were only made Congregations by conveniency of situation and the Law of Civill Policy If Parishes were first the seats of Popery and after the seats of Prelacy and now fall under the Presbytery in the same kind and Notion of a mixed multitude Then mixt and Parochiall Congregations are not that way and order of Christ for Ordinances which was the Primitive way revealed and practised in the Gospell But all this is undeniably true from the best Historians Therefore not mixt Communion and fellowship but pure and unmixt is the only Ordinance of Christ Now I shall leave you for the present and commend particulars unto you and the Kingdom the one A Rule of Evidences for Spirituall Communion drawn from the Scriptures the other A remarkeable passage in the Book of Vindication The Rule of Evidences for Spirituall-Communion MAtth. 15. 26. Chap. 18. 19 20. Joh. 10. 16. Acts 2. 44 46. Chap. 19. 9. Rom. 1. 7. Chap. 16. 17 18. 1 Cor. 1. 1 10. Chap. 5. 4 5 11 13. and 12. 12 13 14 20 25 27 2 Cor. 5. 6 7. Chap. 6. 14 15 16 17. Gal. 5. 9 10 12 13. Chap. 6. 16. Ephes 4. 3 4 25 Chap. 5. 1 2 11 12 21 30. Pâ—il 3. 15 16 17. 1 Thes 3. 6. 2 Thes 3. 14. 1 Tim. 6. 3 4 5. 2 Tim. 3. 5. Tit. 3.
10. Heb. 10 â—â— 1 Pet. 2. 9. 1 Joh. 1. 7. 2 Joh. v. 10 11. Revel 2. 14 15 20. Chap 18. 4. and 19. 20. A remarkable Passage in the Vindication-Booke ANd if our Assembly and Ministers will but diligently preach against that Catalogue of scandalous sins and sinners they have presented to the Parliament and the Parliament prescribe severe Temporall Lawes and Punishments against them and appoint good Civill Magistrates to see them duly executed inflicted I am confident that this would work a greater Reformation in our Church and State in one halfe yeare then all the Church-Discipline and Censures now so eagerly contested for will do in an Age and will be the only true way and speediest course to reforme both Church and State at once which I hope the Parliament will consider of and take care that our Ministers like the Bishops formerly may not now be taken up with Ruling and Governing but Preaching and Instructing which is worke enough wholly to engrosse their time and thoughts FINIS LEt this Way of Peace and Reconciler among Brethren intituled The Smoke in the Temple more then ordinarily usefull in these times be printed Imprimatur IOHN BACHILER The Smoke in the Temple WHEREIN IS A DESIGNE FOR PEACE RECONCILIATION of Beleevers of the severall OPINIONS of these Times about ORDINANCES to a Forbearance of each other in Love and Meeknesse and Humility With the opening of each Opinion and upon what SCRIPTURES each is grounded With the severall EXCEPTIONS which may be made against each Opinion from the SCRIPTURES With one Argument for Liberty of Conscience from the NATIONALL CONVENANT With another Argument to prove the Gospell or New Testament of Iesus Christ the very Word of God Tendred to all the Beleeuers to shew them how little we have attained and there is a more glorious Fulnesse to be revealed With a Discovery of the Antichristian way of Peace c. for Opinions With a full Answer to Master LEY One of the Assembly of Divines against my late New Quaere With some spirituall Principles drawn forth of the Controversie Rev. 15. 8. And the Temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power and and no man was able to enter into the Temple till the seven plagues of the seven Angels were fulfilled By Iohn Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell at Brasteed in KENT THE THIRD EDITION Printed for Giles Calvert at the Signe of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1646. To the Right Honourable the Lord Vicount SAY and SEALE and Lieutenant Generall CROMWEL Noble Patriots IF I mistake not you may here single out somthing of the Lords from what is mine and discerne some beames of God amongst many things of man I know the candle of the Lord cannot shine any where with more snuff then in me however since the Lord hath lighted it I dare not but let it shine or rather glimmer before men I have writ your Names to my Book that I may be one of your Remembrancers amongst the rest to the advancement of Truth not but they who know ye know ye to be acted by a Spirit of Truth in your selves The Lord remember ye according to all the good ye have done in your severall Ministrations to this people and do that for ye which gives you most and yet takes most from ye even filling ye with himself till he hath emptied ye of all but his own glory and gathered ye up into the fulnesse and righteousnesse of himselfe in Christ where we are only nothing in our selves and every thing in him and surely the most and best and greatest thing he can do for the sons of men is thus to make them nothing in their own account that he that glorieth may glory in the Lord. I may seeme strange to wish ye thus but I know it is not strange to ye who know the Mystery of the Spirit and of Christ My Lord and Sir Go on still yet still laying your designes in a glory above that of States and Kingdomes and involving all your Counsels there where there is most of Heaven and least of the world So praies Your Servant in the Lord IOHN SALTMARSH To the Beleevers of severall Opinions for outward Ordinances or dispensations scandalously called Independents Presbyterians Anabaptists Seekers Brethren I Have fairly set down how far each of you have attained in the Mystery of Truth and surely we are all short of the glory which shall be revealed in the Temple or Church of God and there are such clouds rolling about each opinion that may darken it or something of it So as things are not so cleare as they are commonly taken by each of us If any man think he knoweth anything he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know So as the common ignorance and infirmity amongst us may be a rise for a common Vnity amongst us and seeing we all come out of Babylon though in several waies to the glorious Temple or Tabernacle which God hath sent down to be with men and walk thus diversly thither yet our severall and distinct goings are but like so many Travellers to the City of London some travell from the North some from the South and from the West some from the East yet all thither though too there may be some mistaking of the way in each because of the little light that is abroad The gathering of the Saints into the Heaven or Kingdom below in this day of Revelation is like the gathering at the last day which shall be all into one glorious Body though the gathering shall be from the four winds or ends of the Earth by the severall Trumpets or Angels One thing I have more Let us seek for the Spirit of wisdom and revelation to open to us the Mystery of the Scriptures called The Revelation for in that Book is the Prophecie of the Churches laid up and the seasons and times for Truth revealed Let us search and seek out by the Spirit of Iesus even that Iesus which was in the Vision and gave it out to Iohn for there is none found worthy to open the Book with Seals but the Lambe Surely in the Mystery of Angels Vials Sea of glasse with fire Temple with Smoke the Angell with the everlasting Gospell the Angell enlightning the Earth the Whore in skarlet and pretious pearles the Cup of abomination the Beast like a Lamb the Image of the Beast the Horus and Kings of the Earth the marke in the forehead and in the right hand the buying and selling the Tabernacle of God with men the first and second Resurrection the Ihronâ— of God the pure Chrystall River of water the Holy Ierusalem descending from God c. In these is much of the glory wrapped up and from these shall the Truth we contend for appeare to our further enlightning Yet one thing more We that are thus contenders for Ordinances for the Temple and the Vessels in it let us
gifts which it alwaies had and they are joyned both in the Word and practice as in Heb. 6. 1. Doctrine of Baptisms and Laying on of hands and in their practice they were joyned as in act Act. 8. 14. 15 16. And it will appeare in the Word that the Apostles did not so reckon of them single but together as in Act. 8. 14 15 16. where it is said they were only Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus but they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost So as Baptism by water and by the Holy Ghost being joyned together both in Institution Doctrine and Practice are not to be separated nor given in such a time wherein that of the Holy Ghost is not given For what God hath joyned together let no man put asunder 11. That it is as unreasonable to take any such Ordinance of Jesus Christ from any that is not distinctly specially spiritually powerfully enabled as the first dispensers as it is to take the word of any common man charging us in the name of the Parliament and cannot visibly make out a visible Excellency and Supremacy of power by Ordinance or Commission 12. That these Churches who enjoy Christs mind as they think most fully in the practice oâ— Ordinances yet have no greater gifts in their Churches then there are in those called Independent or Separatist Prayer Teaching Prophesying being as fully and powerfully performed in the one as the other And being so Whether must not the Churches of Christ be distinguished by some more visible glorious power and gifts as at first by which they may be discerned to excell all other Societies 13. That the fulnesse of time is not yet come for Ordinances For as there were severall seasons for the givings out of Truth before so now Seeking or Seekers So called What their Way is and what they hold THat there is no Church nor Ordinances yet That if they did not end with the Primitive or Apostles times yet they are to begin as in the Primitive times with gifts and miracles and that there is as much reason for the like gifts to make out the Truth of any of the Gospell now to an Antichristian estate as formerly to a Jewish or Heathenish That such a Belever as can dispence Ordinances must be qualified as the Beleevers in Mark 16. and as the former Disciples were That there is a time and fulnesse for the Spirit and for the latter pure spirituall dispensations as there was formerly for the first dispensations And whether this shall be while the Angels are but powring out their Vials or not or when Babilon is fallen And whether there is not as much need for new Tongues to reveale the pure Origionall to us it being conveyed with corruptions and additionals in Translations by which Truth may be more purely discovered and the waters of Life that now run muddily may flow more cleare and Crystal-like from the Throne of God The Exceptions 1. THat Jesus Christ did promise to be ever with his Church and therefore cannot be reasonably presumed to leave them without Church and Ordinances 2. That if Scriptures were not so pure and cleere to us as the Word of Life were not sufficiently there God were lesse gracious to us now under Grace and Christ come in the flesh then before to the Jews who gave them a Book of the Law which remained with them to the coming of the Messiah 3. That such gifts and miracles were rather for bringing the Word into the world and for glorifying Christs first coming in the flesh then for after 4. That if we must have miracles to make us beleeve and not beleeve any truth till then we must have for every Truth as well as for one or two a miracle to give it evidence and so there must be a continuall and new miracle working for every new beleeving 5. If there must be miracles for beleeving Truth is not of that excellent nature that it seems for if it be not able to make it selfe evident and cast a native and spirituall f shine or brightnesse upon that soule it comes into it is but weake dark and insufficient 6. If Truth be not discernable in it self by its own glorious lightsome nature by beames from it self it is of a worse condition then many things below as the Sun and Stars and Candles c. which bring that light in their own nature and dispensation by which they are discerned 7. If every Truth be a became of Christ the truth then every beame hath light in it selfe because it streams from the fountaine of light and so is discernable 8. That it is more glorious to take evidences from the Spirit then from any thing without which can at the farthest of it self but convince the outward man 9. That all shall now in the last times be in a secret invisible inward spirituall glory no more in grosse carnall visible evidences and materiall beams as gifts miracles And this is to know Christ no more after the flesh 10. No miracles can in their own nature make one beleeve without a spirituall conviction from the Spirit of Christ going along with it so as we see when miracles were wrought some beleeved and some beleeved not So as then there is no such reason for miracles as pretended because that conviction which comes from the Spirit through the work of a miracle may come by any other instrumentall or originall way Or it is a more glorious operation by how much more single or by way of immediate revelation it works 11. To beleeve meerly by the Spirit is far more glorious then by any other outward means though never so outwardly glorious by how much the Spirit is more excellent then any thing else by so much more divine and spirituall are the impressions of it 12. That when miracles are wrought yet a pretender may work a miracle for the contrary like the Sorcerers of Egypt against Moses and Antichrist is spoken on rather to come with signes and wonders of the two then Christ So as here shall be a losse to any that think to beleeve meerly by miracle So as the Spirit is that which must make us beleeve beyond all the power of miracle which can give out its power but upon the sense at farthest being meerly outward and visible 13. That there is no such power for Ordinances as is pretended but Beleevers as Disciples may administer and so did the Apostles and Beleevers formerly as they were Disciples 14. That the Scriptures of the Gospell or New Testament are of such a divine and even Spirituall glory in the Letter as no other word There is a power to discover the reason and secrets of the heart which the reason and heart of man witnesses unto There is a power to convince and accase and terrifie and comfort clearly and undeniably and
We are not of those that speake evill of dâ—gâ—iâ—ies or despâ—se government unlesse you count your Presbyterie to be that government and dignitie spoken on by the Spirit and that remaines to be proved That which cannot be proved to be a Scripture-government cannot challenge a Scripture-law to defend or secure it You say If the Byas run most towards government it is but as it should be Yea if towards a Scripture-government else it is as it should not be and not as it should be You say The Bishops government 's put down some must be set up and that is Presbytery But there is one set up already a civill Parliament arie government and will you set up another above that or cordinate with that Will you set up one government to rule another or tutour another And must you needs set up as large a Dominion as the eivâ—ll Power hath Must our Presbytery be full as ample as high and supream as our Parliament Will no lesse territory or Kingdom serve it but all England Whole Nations Must Christs government be just as broad and long as the worlds You find not the golden Read for the Temple of that length Now Reader judg which government affects Dominion Which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it Poore Scripture-government can be content to sit down in a Village To the Church in thy house saith the Spirit In a City as Corinth and over but a few there the Saints only in fellowship to the Church in Corinth In a Countrey not over a Countrey so the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church taking in halfe part of the world Sure if Christ would have had such a Nationall compreliensive Church he could have converted King and Princes first and they should have given up their Scepterâ— and Kingdoms to Jesus Christ in the way of a Presbyterian Nay it ought to have been so Jesus Christ was bound in the way of righteousnesse to have be un the practice and modellâ— to us over whole Kingdoms having not left it in precept in the whole Gospell and we ought either to have had practice or precept to order and command us in what we obey You say If other Truths be set by it is by those that so oppose Government and not by the Presbyteriall I see the Presbytery must be in no fault Happy men that have nothing but Truth on their side You wish I had more caution in my mind and paper and â— shorter Refutation had served Cautions are not amisse both for you and me and I think you had need of more caution of the two by how much more vast and nationall the Government is you manage You that put yokes upon whole Nations in a day had need to have the cautions of a yeers provision laid in before hand And for your Refutation of my paper do not beare witnesse of yourâ—selfe let Truth judge bet wixt us and let the Reader pray for a spirit of discerning to judge both what is Truth and which is Truth that which you or I affirme Nor will I say I have made here a Refutation of yours If I have done well What have I that I have not received And if I have not the Lord enlighten and enable me to refute my selfe Master Ley's Resolution pag. 36 37 38. To that of his that the matteriall Temple was more clearly left and known then the Gospell paterne c. Answer 1. He would not be thought to side with Sanballat and Tobijah and so endeavours to shew some considerable difference 2. If it beâ—toâ— soon now for the Government will he set a time for it when it will be seasonable or will he have it stay till it be a matter all building or till we have inspired Prophets 3. It cannot be of too quick dispatch if we set it up by the dictates of the Holy Ghost in the New Testament nor the determination sudden if after consideration with Scriptures with the best Divines and collation of the exactest paterns after long debates in the Assembly of Divines where the dissenting and liberty to object and lastly received by Parliament 4. By the builders speciall regard hath been had to Jesus Christ for Foundation c. And now by Master Saltmarsh his consent the work may go on c. Reply You say I would not seem to side with Sanballat and Tobljah You say true I would not But every building is not Temple-work And though I would not with knowledge hinder the Temple of the living God yet if another kind of frame were in building I would do my best to hinder and be no Sanballat neither But they are Sanballats not whom man but whom the Lord counts so But surely they hinder more that set up another kind of Temple then Christs then he that advises to look well that all be right and Temple-worke that is set up To the difference I made of the materiall and Gospell-paterns you say nothing and that is the only considerable It may be as you said by me you are best able to deale with the other You say I should set a time then for the setting it up Yea I shall set you a time yet not in mine own authority but Christ's When your Patern is all Gospell and your people all qualified in that Gospellpatern then is my time for setting up and then is Christ's time too Nor would I stay you for a materiall building as you say You know I call you on to the Gospell I am very far from turning you back to the Law I call you on to Christ I would not turn you back to Solomon And for the inspired Prophets you tell me I stay for and would have you stay too Is not that a very Gospell-way to stay for the Spirit 's coming into the servants of the Lord Take heed of denying inspired Disciples You know it is part of the fâ—lâ—illing of the great Prophecie Acts 2. Indeed some of the Prelates many of them being uninspired themselves and having little of the Spirit or none would needs say therefore All inspirations and Spirituall enlightnings c. were ended in the Church because ended in them and because they were so carnall themselves they thought none was Spirituall And you remember how they made Laws even against the Spirit in Prayer I speake thus only to remember you who spoke most against inspiration and the Spirit lest you may let fall some words which may be taken up by some of that way to countenance them in their Invectives Not but that I esteem of you as one inspired your selfe in a measure and having the Spirit of God in you therefore I know the Spirit will be very tender in opposing the Spirit You say you ought to dispatch the Government because you have followed the dictates of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament Then let me put one Question Why is it not called Christs Government Why
hath it not a Jus divinum a Divine Right put upon it if all be of the Holy Ghost in it But I would not mistake you you say only that all is by the dictate of the Holy Ghost of the Assembly and Parliament So it is but part then by your own confession of the Holy Ghost the rest is of the Assembly and Parliament You say The builders have had speciall regard to Jesus Christ the Foundation I will not suspect the Counsels and Debates of any of the builders I know the Disciples of Christ were true Disciples though they had not all of the Spirit at one time which they had at another I hope and I pray that the Lord will make up to the builders what of the Spirit he hath not given them that they may both see to build right and see where they have builded wrong and so pull down againe as well as set up And whereas you say The building may go on by Master Saltmarsh his own consent I say your building will go on it seems whether Master Saltmarsh consent or no. Master Ley in his capacity is better able to put it on at this time then Master Saltmarsh is to put it off to another time unlesse the Lord who is above all and hath the mighty even the Princes of the earth to command work for his own glory above all that we can or think Master Ley's Resolution pag. 38 39 40. To the second Objection and Answer of Heresies and Schisms and so they might have done from Iohn's first Sermon he saith 1. Why doth he begin with Iohns first Sermon Were not the Esseans c. Hereticks and Schisma icks See Epiphanius c. 2. He makes Pauls Epistles the terminus ad quem which from John's first Sermon to the last make up Twenty nine yeers After the Epistles he brings in the sending the Spirit c. which was but five yeares after the first Sermon of John Baptist 3. Before the end of the Epistles that Government was not which we find in Scripture and if so the Church-Government was not long suspended 4. Nor would it prejudice our expedition People of that Age could not be so easily gathered as with us they may be 5. What was long in establishing in Primitive times cannot be said to be hastily done now after so many discussions and deliberate resolutions Reply You say first Why begin I for Hereticks and Schismaticks from John's first Sermon I begin there because there began the mystery of the Gospell And yet I shew you that no Government began with that Gospell manifestation by which I made appeare that if Government had been of such morall necessity why was it not given out with the Gospels first giving out Now you prove in a chronologicall discourse the space of time from Johns Sermon to Pauls Epistle to make the time appeare for Government And after you have summed up all the time and periods and find it no two or three yeers work you conclude People of that age could not be so easily gathered as now Nor the long establishing then to be an hasty establishing now And now after all this discourse and ravellings out of time from Johns Sermon c. What have you gained Not that the Government was soon setled Then you have proved much to my advantage and in a clearer and fuller computation then I did the contrary So as you have only been taking some learned paines if you well observe and the Reader well observe you to prove that the Government at first was not suddenly cast into modell nor brought forth in practise which is the very thing I aimed at and truly your pains in it have been more exact then mine and I thank you for it But you say It ought not to be so now nor can it be said to be hastily done now that was done so long ago You say true in that But you know the same Spirit must reveale it that formed it and it formed it at first by degrees and the way of Revelation hath been more year's then the first farming reckon but your Antichristian years as exactly as you have done your first Christian and Primitive yeares and you may be more satisfied So as all both the first Revelation of it from Prophesies and the latter from Antichristianism makes all for the not hastening which I aimed at Indeed if you can as infallibly assure us this forme and modell is the very forme then given out it were very true that you say That it cannot be said to be hastily done now what was done so long agoe viz. If it be that very one which was done so long ago For your exception against me concerning my placing the giving of the Spirit so late if you interpret sense by the strict order of words you will lose many a Scripture truth in the words as you well know Master Ley's Resolution Page 40 41. To that of Heresies c. he saith What if they do not ster up their Patrons against the State c. but they busily poyson the soules of the people and shall they if as Paul Best be suffered to blaspheme and reproach and perturb the publike Peace An Indulgence much like old Elies c. If Truth be not more precious then Peace why doth our Saviour say He came not to send peâ—ce And why do the Fathers contend so against the Arrians about a letter And why we so with the Romish Religion rather then be at peace with them For that of morall transgressions he would have the Magistrates set on Set on By whom We have not such meane thoughts of the Magistrate as to make mention of him in such terms of disparagement And for all his Disciplines regulating men for religious walking there will be worke enough for the Magistrate to bring them under civill tryall for câ—ntumaâ—ie c. Reply You say What If hereâ—ies stir not up they poyson souls If they poyson let the Gospel-antidote be applied then and no other way which the Gospell will not beare noâ— allow there is the sword of the Spirit and weapons not carnall but mighty and spirituall For that of old Elies indulgences which you speak on you are still looking upon Moses though you tell us of Christ Make the Kingdome of Israel and of England the same a Iewish and Christian State the same and then we shall allow you both Elies sin and his sons maintenance by tythes offerings You say Truth is more precious then peace yet there is a peace precious as well as Truth even the Peace of Christ as well as the Truth of Christ But to the businesse You would prove Truth to be precious to the disadvantage of Peace and therefore you bring in the Fathers against the Arrians and us against the Papists and Christ against Peace But what would you prove Would you prove that truth ought to be established against peace and peace to be no way to truth Surely truth and
will have a body sutable pure Not only is the visible body of Christ thus pure but every truth of Christ bears the Image of Christ every truth of his hath something of himself in it who is Truth it self I am the Truth saith Christ every beam of light is light every truth is a sparkle of truth it self Thus we may judge of truth by what of Christ we see in it They who break a Chrystall may see their face in every peâ—â—e and parcell so in every thing of Christ there is an Image of Christ either of his purity or holinesse or love or humility or meeknesse c. The Presbyteriall Government and the Worlds of the same equall Dominion VVHat kind of Church-government is that which will set up it selfe with the Civill and State-government even co-ordinate with it if not to the ruling and tutoring of it which hath as large a Dominion as the other which is as full as ample as high and as supream which no lesse territorie then a Kingdome will serve then a whole Nation Muâ—â— Christs Government be just as large as the worlds which Government affects Dominion which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it This or that little one in the Scripture which sits downe sometimes in a house to the Church in thy house sometimes in a City as Corinth and over a few there to the Church in Corinth in a Countrey not over a Countrey to the seven Churches in Asia not to the Church of Asia or the Church Asia a Church a fourth part of the world Sure if this Nationall and comprehensive Church were the patern we should walk by Why did not Christ begin first at Kings and Princes and so bring Nations and Kingdomes and make Churches of them But we see no such thing he begins lower at the base and weake and foolish and few and raises up his Kingdome from the bottome of the world and not from the top or pinacle of Princes Kingdomes and Nations The Nationall and Congregationall Church-covenant both lawfull or both unlawfull HOw can a Church-covenant be unlawfull if the Nationall-covenant be warrantable and why doe any plead against that who are for this A Covenant is condemned in the Congregationall Church and yet commended in the Nationall Now How can a Church-covenant be both true and false Is a great Church-covenant lawfull and a little one unlawfull a Nationall Church-covenant warrantable and a Congregationall unwarrantable But Covenantâ— in their nature were a dispensation more of the Olâ— Testamenâ— strain a Nationall Church had a Covenant to gather them up into their Nationall way of worship and were under the Laws of an externall Pedagogâ—â— and now the spirituall dispensation being come even the Gospell of Iesus Christ there is a fulnesse of spirit let out upon the Saints and people of God which gather them up more closely spiritually and cordally then the power of any former dispeâ—sation could the very Covenant of God himself of which the former were typicall and Propheticall comes in nakedly upon the spirits of his and drawes them in and is a law upon their inward parts sweetly compelling in the consciences with power and yet not with force with compulsion and yet with consent and surely where this Covenant of God hath its kindly and spirituall operation there would need no such externall supplement as before but because of the hardnesse of our hearts it is thus from the beginning it was not so the spirit tyed up thousands together then Let States then have any prudentiall security any designe of sound wisdome to consoraâ—e people together but let the Church only be gathered up by a Law of a more glorious and transcendent nature by the pure Covenant of God himselâ— with the souls of his We receive and give out Truth by parts MEn are to be judged and followed according to the degrees of light they receive and if any have some light that light is not to be used as an advantage to all their other darknesse as if all their darknesse might passe under that one beame of light The light rises upon the Prophets as the Sun upon the Earth it is dawning and morning and noon with them Thus came the Gospell Iohn preached Repentance Iesus Christ Faith and Repentance Iohn came with Water Christ with the Spirit and first in Parables and after in power the Apostles they knew first Christ for Messiah then that he should suffer and die and rise againe and then the Kingdome of God Luther knew first that Indulgences were unwarrantable and after that Popery was Antichristianism and Rome was Babylon and works could not justifie and after conscience was not to be compelled in spirituals Thus we grow from Faith to Faith to the fulnesse of stature in Christ to a perfect man in him growing with the increasings of God The Kingdome of God is like a little leven like a grain of mustard seed So as while we see but things in degrees we are neither to be too sudenly admired by others nor our selves All Covenanters are bound to contribute to Religion as well as State VVHosoever hath Covenanted is bound to assist the Publike to his utmost in every Condition and Calling and Place and Way accordingly from naturall abilities to his relations from one relation to another even to all to that of Christian and Spirituall his Prayers Counsell Notions with Countributions of all sorts Civill Naturall Temporall Spirituall He is bound by Covenant to discover malignity in State in Church enemies to God as well as man endeavours to any thing of Popery and Prelacy under what visage habit form of Words of Doctrine Discipline be it Presbytery or whatever if repugnant to the Word of God as we are perswaded in conscience who have personally Covenanted The breathings and speakings of the Spirit are not to be quenched Every season is for the Lords service in season and out of season Watchman watchman what of the night The Spirit is powred upon sons and daughters Synods of men are not infallible Not because more men more of the Spirit The liberty of the subject is that of soule as well as body and that of soul more deare precious glorious The liberty wherein Christ hath made us free Be not ye then the servants of men in the things of God We are to try Truth and so receive it in its Degrees ENquiries for Truth ought to be according to Scripture-rule and that rule lights us on to the triall of all things and proving spirits and judging between the precious and the vile The water that is mingled with the wien the Tares with the Wheat will require sound tryall lest we make but an exchange of one Error for another The Apostles waited for the Spirit the Bereans searched the Word we are bidden to trie and prove The Prophecies of seducers false Christs Antichrist with lying wonders are as reall cautions given out by the Spirit The examples of former Ages Luther
SIR FOr the Controversie in substance betwixt us I cannot think the Truth I defended so weak as to need a new Treatise to beare it up I see it is otherwise with you who dare not let your former Books stand by themselves without another to support them It is indeed the way of the Popish Schooles to fill the world with Volumes and Tomes and rather to astonish then convince and this is one thing which hath made the world wonder after the Beast There is no end in making many Books How hath Truth been carried out of sight from the Reader in the Labyrinth of Replies and Rejoynders Your selfe gives us an Experement in this Book for how are you puzled to let the Reader know what was yours and what was mine at first and what is yours again and what was mine afterwards and what is yours again in answer to mine and what Truth is after all this I find it to be the wisdom of the Spirit of God to leave the world a sufficiency of Scripture and Truth but not to write all list the world should not contain it And Pilate was not amisse in that What I have written sates he I have written when they desired him to write more So as things being thus I hope I shall write you as much if not more in One Sheet and an halfe as you have writ me in Seveâ—teen for he that writes anything of Truth more properly writes much then he that writes against it though in more Paper The Summe of your Book is this 1. YOur Epistles which are a competent Treatise of themselves and the very Cisterne of your reasoning from whence you fill all the other Pages of your Book 2. The parrs of my Treatise with your Answer or rather much of your former reply which in things of most weight is no refutation but a reference to other Divines who have writ of the like subject c. it seems you have a common stock of learning amongst you or a Argumentative Treasurie to which you referre us with much ease but I cannot take this for good paiment to be put over to another man when you are bound to pay me your selfe I could turne you over thus to as able Divines as you do me to Mr Tho. Goodwyn Mr Burton Mr Iohn Goodwyn Mr Nye Mr Tombes Mr Prâ—â—â— Mr Burrough Mr White Mr Eator Mr Den Mr Knolls c. 3. The Appendix to your Book writ by a Master of Arts whether your friend or your selfe for I know not whom you make the two letters C. D. to stand for who brings in testimonials of your abilities learning piety good carriage worth c. who methinks speaking so much to your praise as he doth stands a little too neere you we should not seek glory one of another our praise should be of God not of men Thus I have contracted you to save you some evill in the multitude of your words now to your matter 1 THat they should counsell me not to cry down the Government 2 That no Presbytery Parochiall c. assumes such power as the Prelaticall 3 That if the question were rightly stated men would be convinced Magistracy and Christian Liberty would be preserved 4 That I should restore such Tythes if unlawfull as I formerly received because the sin till then is not remitted 5 That I would have men beleeve as they list 6 That he was wished rather to a neglect of me then alloud conquest over me 7 That he had rather consute Bellarmine then my new-sprung Notions 8 Because I am against Logick and Formes of Art I am no right Disputant 9 That I am an Ubiquitary in my Beleefe because of the Opinions set down in The Smoake c. 10 That I am an Antinomian and deales with some late Divines as some with Luther 11 That I am unstable 12 That I glory in the quick dispatch of my worke To which Tertullian and some old Poetry and other Authors with a Story of a Noble-man and a Brewer is brought 13 That my Interposition is like to be no delay to the Government 14 That he may be better imployed then in writing and others shall undertake me To the first 1. ARe you in such feares of your Government that you make friends to me to be silent Is it so weak that it may be cryed down To the 2. Is Presbytery because Parochiall Classicall Provinciall lesse Tyrannicall then Episcopall because many rule in that and in this but one or rather not more Tyrannicall because one Tyrant is not so much as many together Evill in a Community is stronger more diffusive then in Vnity To the 3. Is not the Question of the Presbytery yet stated Yea surely What else hath your Assembly and others been doing Is it not a power in your Eldership and Presbytery how little or large soever over the Churches and Congregations Independent upon the Magistrate coercive to all that beleeve not as they beleeve as to Hereticks and Schismaticks And yet men are not convinced nor is Magistracy or Christian liberty so preserved as you say let both the Magistrates and Christians judge who in the mean time you would be Iudges over To the 4. For my restoring of Tythes now unlawfull to me I have done it I have returned to the State my property of a full yeers Arrearage nor did I take Tythes since I was in Kent but the peoples free composition from the first and being even convinced against that too a yeere since I forbore it But take heed how you put forgivenesse of sin upon restitution for that is not only Popery but like the Pope you would sell Pardons only to the rich and none to the poore and you would put more upon Sacrifice then upon Mercy To the 5. Nor would I have men beleeve as they list as you say of me I would only not have men forced to beleeve as others list as you or your Brethren list I would have Faith wrought by the Spirit of God not by the spirits of men who have no Dominion over Faith To the 6. And why do you speak so of a loud Conquest over me Truth is not conquer'd when the man is trampled on It is not your being great can make you a Conqueror no more then your calling by the Bishops a true Presbyter To the 7. And for your desire rather to deale with Bellarmine then me I did not think I had been so formidable an enemie but I will not presume Indeed Bellarmine is a more easie adversary because he opposes the Truth and I though a weake one may be more considerable because Truth defends me rather then I the Truth for I will rather make it my Champion then my selfe a Champion for it And for my new-sprung Notions as you say call Truth Notion or new or what you will you can never call it out of its own nature or essence And Truth is Gods own Notion neither mine nor yours and new
those that eat flesh and those that eat herbs for those that regarded a day and those that regarded it not for those that used milke and those that eat stronger meat for those that were zealous of the Law and those that were more in the Gospell to be one or together or to please one another to edefication Did Paul bid the eaters of flesh call the eaters of herbs hereticks or them that regarded a day the others that regarded it not hereticks or them that were zealous of the Law them that were of the Gospell Heretickes or thus Flesh-eaters and Day-regarders and Legalists as we doe Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists That there is so much in every one of these wherein they appeare to stand in need of one another that the Presbyterian cannot say I have no need of the Independent nor the Independent I have no need of the Presbyterian nor either of them say we have no need of you Anabaptist For the Presbyterian may need the Independent because he is for a purer Communion of Saints then he They both the Anabaptist because he baptizeth Beleevers as the Apostles alwayes did They both the Seekers because none of them have these Ordinances by the first patterne in the Word as by Apostleship and Baptisme of Spirit Nor these the Presbyterians because there may be some gift some power of the Spirit some principle of Administration in them which may help the Body and the Common-wealth or Parliament All these because they are all members of the same State That Love is the more excellent way revealed then either the way of Gifts or Ordinances and therefore no gift or ordinance is to be preferred before love Love neither envies nor vaunts nor behaves it self unseemly but beareth all things and hopeth all things and this is that love which is of God and extends it self as God and comprehends and embraces men not as this man or that man meerely not as a man of this or that opinion but because it is love from the fountaine of infinite love it flowes upon all and hath a kind of peace with all and loves all God is love and therefore just and unjust good and bad are taken into something of him seeing he giveth to all things life and breath and all things and the more this love is amongst men the more they love as God and the more large in love and universall in love That love which is only to one kind is but low narrow and naturall the meer love of creatures as creatures but that love which can love those of other kinds as Presbyterian Anabaptist Independent is not that love of a creature only so as the more we love any that are not as we are the lesse we love as men and the more as God That the first and most glorious and spirituall unity is that of spirit and therefore things that are outward formall and perish with using nor any Ordinance were ever made an hinderance to that unity let not Christians think they cannot be One nor in any communion of spirit till they be like one another in the body first and in the Ordinance first which it may be they never shall be for we see God hath hid outward Ordinances deepest from discovery so as they that find most find but pieces and parcels and one one part and another another part and another another part all finde not all because all should not want one another and we find these things last because there was lesse need how many hundred yeares from Christ and nothing of these yet Christ was knowne and some of the more spirituall glory of Christ and if Christians should not be one till they be like one another how little would the peace be even as little as that unity they contend for and what peace would it be but that of flesh and forme the peace of Ordinances not of Spirit I desire this may be considered that according to the first patterne the Baptisme of the Spirit or Gifts and Ordinances were together never asunder from the Apostles times to the falling away and let there be a Word held out for Ordinances by themselves without the like Gifts or else let us be in more unity of Spirit then we are Christians are truly so alike and so one and the same as they are one in Christ in union and spirit one in God as they partake of the Divine nature of the Image of Christ as they are branches in the same Vine members in the same body so God loves all his as they are of him born of the incorruptible seed being the glory of the second Adam quickned by that life that eternall life God looks not nor loves not as men are Presbyterians or Independents or Anabaptists we commonly love so who begin to love at the outward man before the inward God loves us first as in Christ and loves us because in Christ God loves according to the figure of himself in us and so we should love one another if we will love according to God let Papists love Papists only and Prelates love Prelates only because they are so let us love according to that of spirit we discerne by the same spirit in each according to that of love faith meeknesse patience purity faithfulnesse glory which are the fruits of the Spirit let us love as we judge and that is in spirit as spiritually discerning according to fruits of righteousnesse and holinesse not according to this and that forme which is carnall for as he is not a Jew which is one outwardly no more is he a Christian which is one outwardly circumcision and Christianity is not of the letter but of the spirit so as loving thus we should not thinke nor speake against these and these because they are not Presbyterians as we are because they beleeve not as we beleeve and think not as we think Were it not madnesse to fight because we are not like one another in the face in feature in complection in disposition in a word because we are not alike in body and what were it lesse to sight with one another because we are not alike in the Spirit in soule in judgement in conscience in opinion If the whole body were the eye where were the hearing If the whole were hearing where were the smelling The lesse we endeavour this bond of peace the more we shall take in new fuell to our old fire the more advantage and opportunity will be opened to let in the old remainders of the war amongst us which shall be as a train of powder to kindle us into new contentions and thus new divisions will spring out from the ashes of the old and those whom we conquer one day will be conquerors amongst us another day and we shall not know them from some of our selves and all our victories and conquests will be but the enemies design of recruiting our misery they whom we subdue finding the veine of enmity running
repent or be sorry for sinne c. be humble c. if they preach them as Christ and the Apostles did as graces flowing from him and out of his fulnesse and not as springings of their owne and waters from their fountaines as if the teachers like Moses would make men beleeve they could with such Rods and exhortations smite upon mens hearts as upon rocks and bring waters out of them be they never so hard and stony We agree with you that repentance and sorrow for sinne and humiliation and self-deniall are all to be preached and shall contend with you who preaches them most and clearest but then because Iohn said Repent and Christ said Repent and Peter said Repent are we to examine the Mystery no farther Know we not that the whole Scripture in its fulnesse and integrality reveales the whole truth and must we not looke out and compare Scripture with Scripture spirituall things with spirituall and so finding out truth from the degrees to the glory and fulnesse of it preach it in the same glory and fulnesse as we find it We heare Christ preaching before the Spirit was given Repent and we find when the Spirit was given Christ is said to give Repentance to Israel and forgivenesse of sinnes and shall we not now preach Jesus Christ and Repentance in Jesus Christ the fountaine of repentance the author of repentance and yet preach repentance and repentance thus and repentance in the glory of it more The Apostle in one place saith Beleeve in the Lord Iesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and in another place He is the author and finisher of our Faith Shall we not now preach Iesus Christ first and Iesus Christ the fountaine and Iesus Christ the author of faith and beleeivng and yet preach faith yea and thus preach faith faith in the glory faith in the revelation of it faith from Christ and faith in Christ One Scripture tels us godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation c. And another tels us They shall look on him whom they have peirced and they shall mourne for him c. Shall we not now preach sorrow for sin took from Christ Christ piercing and wounding and melting the heart Christ discovering sin and powring water upon drie ground this is sorrow for sin in the glory of the Gospell One Scripture bids He that will follow me let him deny himselfe and take up his crosse Another saith It is he that worketh in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure and I am able to do all things through Christ that strenghneth me Shall we not now preach Christ our strength and Christ our selfe-deniall and is not this selfe-denyall in the glory of the Gospell So as the difference betwixt us is this Ye preach Christ and the Gospell and the graces of the Spirit in the parts as ye find it we dare not speak the mystery so in peices so in halfe and quarter revealings we see such preaching answers not the fulnesse of the Mystery the riches of the Gospell the glory of the New Testament We find that in the fulnesse of the New Testament Christ is set up as a Prince as a King as a Lord as a crown and glory to every grace and gift nay he is made not only righteousnesse but sanctification too and so we preach him Whereas to preach his riches without him his graces by themselves single and private as repent and beleevs and be humbled and deny your selves ye make the gifts lose much of their glory Christ of his praise and the Gospell of its fulnesse To the Second of your alleadging my Book in such and such pages as another Gospell from Christs I shall print them as you quote them and with them I desire these things to be considered together with the other parts of my Booke and the scope of it which you have detained in unrighteousnesse All these I freely open to the judgment of all who are Spirituall Master Gataker 1 That John Christs and his Apostles Method were all one for matter and manner for they all preached Faith and Repentance and yet we are taxed for these things as Legalists by this Author 2 John and the rest preached life and salvation upon condition of Faith and Repentance and Obedience 3 Where we find Faith only preached it is because we have but the Summaries or heads of their Sermons Answer To the first that I taxe you for preaching Faith and Repentance as the Apostles did and John did as Legalists Nay I tax ye only because ye preach it not as they did according to the full revelation of it in the New Testament but you preach it only as you find it in their Summaries and in the briefe narration of their Doctrine and this you ought not to do if you will preach according to that glorious Analogie of the Gospell and to this I shall only bring in your own words to convince you and so from your own mouth condemn you You say of the Apostles We have but Summaries of them as in Acts 2. 40 and 16. 32. and you knowing this preach only by their first Methods and Summaries not looking to the revelation of the mystery which the Apostle saies is now made manifest And for Iohns manner of preaching his Preaching is to be no more an example to you then his Baptism You know the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater then he To the second That Faith Repentance and Obedience were conditions of life and salvation Why keep you not to the Forme of wholesome words in Scripture Where doth the Scripture call these conditions of salvation They that are Christs do beleeve and repent and obey but do they beleeve repent and obey that they may be Christs Hath not God chosen us in him predestinated us unto the adoption of children in Jesus Christ But I know you wil say That when the Apostles did beleeve repent and obey it is by consequence as much as a condition and the same with a condition But answer The interpreting the Spirit thus in the letter and in consequence hath much darkned the glory of the Gospell When some of Christs Disciples took his words as you do under a condition Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man c. the words saith he that I speake are Spirit Consider but what stâ—â—â—ts you bring the Gospell into first you make life appearing to be had in the Covenant of Grace as at first in the Covenant of Works Do this and live so beleeve repent obey and live thus runs your Doctrine nor can you with all your distinctions make Faith in this consideration lesse then a worke and so put Salvation upon a condition of works againe Is this Free-Grace But you say Faith is a gift freely given of God and here is Free-grace still But I pray Is this any more Free-Frace respectively to what we do for life then the Covenant of works
are not so to him who hath chosen them nor to him in whom they are chosen And this is the mystery why Christ is offered to Sinners or Rogues or whatsoever you call them they are as touching the Election beloved for the Fathers sake I speak of such to whom Christ gives power to receive him and beleeve on him and become the Sons of God and Christ findes them out in their sins and visits them who sit in the region and shadow of death and them that are darknesse he makes light in the Lord. To your fourth That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children I pray Can God be as the Son of man Is there any variablenesse or shadow of change in him Can he love and not love Doth he hate persons or sins Is he said to chastise as Fathers otherwise then in expressions after the manner of men because of the infirmities of our flesh must we conceive so of God as of one another Can he be provoked for sins done away and abolished Hath Christ taken away all the sin of his Hath he borne all upon his body or no Speakes he of anger otherwise then by way of Allusion and Allegory as a Father c. And is that He is a Father after the fashion of men Or speaks he not in the Old Testament according to the Revelation of himselfe then and in the New Testament of himselfe now only because our infirmity and his own manner of appearing which is not yet so but we may beare him in such expressions and yet not so in such expressions but we may see more of him and his love and the glory of Salvation in other expressions and not make up such a love as you commonly do of benevolence and complacence Did David and Peter as you say make up their peace with God by Repentance Is there any that makes peace but one Jesus Christ who makes peace through the bloud of his Crosse Can Repentance make peace Or Obedience make peace Is there any sacrifice for sin but that which was once offered even he that appeared in the end of the world to put away sin by the sacrifice of himselfe And was not this called by the Apostle One sacrifice for sins for ever Repentance Obedience c. may make way for the peace made already for sin that is in such workings of the Spirit the love of God in the face of Iesus Christ may shine upon the Soule more freely and fully and the more the Spirit abounds in the fruits of it the more joy and peace flows into the Soule and the more the Soule looks Christ in the face so as peace with God is not made but more revealed by the Spirit in obedience and love c. To your fifth That God loves us for his own graces in us I thought he had loved us too in himselfe and from that love given Christ for us and yet loved us in Christ â—op Can any thing without God be a cause of Gods love Doth God love as we love one another from complexions or features without or loves he not rather thus God is love and therefore we are made and Redeemed and Sanctified not because we are Sanctified therefore he loves us We love him because he first loved us he loved us because he loved us and not because we love him not because of any Spirituall complexion or feature in us because of his Image upon us that is but an earnest of his love to us that is only given us because he loved us he loves us from his will not from without for though we are like him yet we are not himselfe and he loves us as in Christ and himselfe Whereas you say God is as man and as a Father I hope you meane not as in himselfe but as in his wayes of speaking and appearing to us and if so we are agreed But your taking things more in the Letter then the Spirit makes your Divinity lesse Divine and your conceptions more like things of men then of God This makes the Gospell so legall and carnall when we rise little higher then the bare Letter or Scripture not the inspiration by which it came all Scripture being given by inspiration To your sixth That Faith is not a persâ—â—sion more or lesse of Gods love and that all may have that I pray mistake not Can all beleeve from the Spirit Can all be more or lesse spiritually perswaded Do I speake of any perswasion of Christs love which is not Spirituall Deceive not your selfe nor your Reader nor wrong not your Author or do I speak of Faith abstracted from all Repentance Obedience c why deale ye thus When you say men may beleeve too suddenly because I presse men to beleeve and you instance in Simon Magus Was he blamed for beleeving too suddenly or for mis-beleeving because he beleeved the gifts of the Holy Ghost were to be bought with money Can any beleeve too soon if some mis-beleeve or beleeve falsly what is that to them that truly beleeve Shall the unbeliefe of some make the Faith of God without effect God forbid Can Christ be too soon a Saviour to us Can the Fountaine be too soon opened for sin Can the riches of Christ be too soon brought home Paul counts it an honour to be first in Christ Salute Andronicus and Iunia who were in Christ before me and the Church in Prâ—scilla's house and Epenetus who were the first fruits of Achaiâ— unto Christ To your seventh That Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first repent Yea but will you take the Doctrine of the Gospell from a part or summary of it as you say and not from the Gospell in its fulnesse and glory and Revelation Will ye gather Doctrines of Truth as Ruth for a while did gleanings here one eare of Corne and there another and not rather go to the full sheafe to Truth in the Harvest and Vintage Will you pluck up Truth by pieces and parcels in Repentance and Obedience and Selfe-dentall and not reveale these as Christ may be most glorified and the Saints most Sanctified and these gifts most Spiritualized and improved Will ye Preach Doctrines as they lie in the Letter or in their Analogie and inference of Truth The Papists Preach Christs very flesh and bloud to be in the Wine And why but because they looke but halfe way to the demonstration of Truth in the Spirit they shut up Christ in one Notion and not in another and so loses the Truth by revealing it in that Forme of words which is too narrow for it and too short of the height and depth and length of it You say We are to try our Faith So say I too if you would not pick and choose in my Book to make me some other thing then you find me But you mean we must try our Faith for assurance as your other words imply and so far I say too but you