sure these men have the imperfection of irrationality if they cannot understand this difference We accused John Whitehead for arguing against the Redemption of the body to be expected after death and for saying the Apostles had it before death W. and F. Here they fault us for not expecting the Redemption of the body and our discharge from sin till after death because we said also p. 10. that the nature of man in the Resurrection is discharged of sin which we spake of Christ made under sin and Law and death for us and in the Resurrection namely his resurrection discharged thereof sayes that any thing of our not being discharged of sin as to forgivenesse of it till the resurrection What grosse abuses be these But they plead for John Whiteheads corrupt sayings reproaching our W. and F. expecting the redemption of the body after death as contrary to the Saints expectations for they waited and groaned they say for the redemption of the body from under corruption when they were upon earth and the creature it self was to be brought into the Glorious Liberty of the Sons of God which state was witnessed by as many as were led by the Spirit of God who were sanctified throughout in body in Soul and in Spirit and put not redemption afar off till after death as they say we do Reply Oh monstrous blind corrupted stuffe one would think that all men that read these things should abhor to listen to these Preachers for first they bely the Saints in saying the expecting the redemption of the body after Death is contrary to the Saints expectation did not the Saints expect that after death their bodies should be raised incorruptible Did they look to have their bodies immortal incorruptible powerful and glorious before their death read 1 Cor. 15. and see if these men be not lyars in grain and wofully corrupt like Hymeneus and Phyletus that said the resurrection was past Phil. 3. 20. 21. 2 Tim. 2 17. 18. 2. They aequivocate in saying they waited and groaned for the redemption of the body from under corruption when they were upon earth in one sense it is true and in another false It is true while they were upon earth they exercised their patient waiting and expectation but false that they expected that the redemption of their body should be proved by them before death the redemption of it I say either from all the being of sin therein or to the being of sin in it till death we spake before and proved it from Ps 143. 2. for they say it s sown in corruption and raised in incorruption if it be sown in corruption when it dies then it is not redeemed from corruption before it die 3. That the Creature it self is to be brought into the liberty of the Sons of God is true but that that state was witnessed that is proved by as many as were led by the Spirit of God is false for the Apostle was led by the Spirit of God and so are the Sons of God but if they witnessed the Creatures being brought into the liberty of the Sons of God and the Redemption of their bodies from corruption how sayes he then that the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the Sons of God seeing what they waited for they did not see and prove and so could not witnesse it for if they see it why did they yet wait for it Rom. 8. 14. 19 20. 23 24 25. Why say they the creature it self shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption and not rather is delivered from it yea and why say they expresly we that have the first fruits of the spirit even we our selves groaning within our selves wait for the Adoption the Redemption of the body for we are saved by hope c. Were not the Apostles led by the Spirit that had the first fruits of it And Paul sayes The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the Law of Sin and Death Rom. 8. 2. And were not they sanctified throughout in Body Soul and Spirit at least in good measure And yet we see they did but wait for the Redemption of the Body they did not witnesse it as a thing which they had nor do we ever find them say they had it but they confound the Redemption of the body with the freeing it from sin in it as G. W. in his late dispute with J. H. declared himself alleadging Rom. 8. 2. his being set free from the Law of sin and death for proof that Paul witnessed the Redemption of the body when as Paul had that before he said he waited for this nor doth it prove any absolute freedom from the being of sin in his body Rom. 7. 26. shews So see all men how corrupt the Quakers be and how miserable out of the Apostles Doctrine and Faith And yet fourthly We say not that either we or the Apostles put Redemption far off till after death It is God that hath Ordered the Redemption there spoken of to be after Death that we might first bear the image of the Earthly in a vile Mortal body before we bear the Image of the Heavenly in a Glorious body it was their part and so is ours to groan after it and waite for it till the time of Christs descending from Heaven to change our vile body that it may be fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious body was ever any mans body redeemed from Corruption and Death and Rottennesse before it died They may as well contradict the Apostle and say that which thou sowest is quickened before it die All men may see these be deniers of the Resurrection preached by the Apostles and therefore Teachers that are to be accounted accursed Gal. 1. 8. Note by the way Reader that these men never attempt to answer our Question propounded to them at both our former disputes whether that that shall rise a Spiritual body was ever dead surely they by their shunning it do declare that they do not believe it and therefore by consequence deny the Resurrection of the dead To our charge of them with Antichristianisme in intimately not confessing Christ come in the flesh while they make not the knowledge of him as so come the knowledge to Eternal Salvation but the knowledge of him after the Spirit as he was before the World was in Ed. Burroughs declaration of their faith which charge we managed against them and they could not make good their faith or prove it by Scriptures though they assayed it from 2 Cor. 5. 16. 1 John 1. 1 2 3. And therefore stood concluded Antichristians To this upon further thoughts they give now this answer That W. and F. To know Christ as he is the Power of God is to know him in the Spirit as he was before the World was and that we trust in the living God who is the Saviour of all men especially of them that believe but as he is
to prove that Adam might have died the natural death though he had not sinned they argue as thus Because Christ who had no sin not considering that Christ had our sins laid upon him and for them he died but Adam should have had no sin laid upon him or imputed to him had he not sinned himself But such like reasonings are too many to number up in them 4. They carry on their false designs and doctrines with lies and falshood most frequently as in saying often that we accuse the Saints and plead for sin p. 2 3 4 5. And in belying J. H. in saying that he turned G. Ws. words about his false Syllogisme above mentioned when as all that were at the dispute and heard and remembred his words may remember they were word for word as John Horn relates them Yea and in belying his own words in saying they were such as they indeed were not Again in saying we might as well have accused the true Prophets and Apostles with being Preachers of lies and deceivers as the Quakers and that the same Spirit in us that hath accused the Quakers with being deceivers that is the Spirit of Truth would have accused the true Prophets Christ and his Apostles for being deceivers page 5. That we contradict our selves in many things where we have made it we have made it evident there is no contradiction That we look for a Christ like our selves but that he hath no Blood in his Body as we imagine p. 10. That our expecting the Redemption of the Body to be waited for aster Death is contrary to the Saints expectations p. 11. and 12. In which words is both equivocation and falshood that what the Scriptures say of Christ and his Body they own in which they also either equivocate or say falsly or both they equivocate if by owning they mean as probably they do they own it as true of themselves the Quakers as if the things spoken of Christ and his Church are verified in and of them and may be affirmed of them Or if by owning they mean they believe and hold them true concerning Jesus of Nazareth and them that believe on him to be saved through the virtue of his sufferings Sacrifice and Mediation then they say falsly Yea whether this or the former be their meaning they are false therein as our reply makes manifest to the impartial Reader But who can number up their lies and falshoods in falsifying our sayings and otherwise which the following Reply will further evidence He that will procure and search and compare what Christopher Wade of Water-beach hath written against them with their writings against him may see a whole dozen of notorious lies of George Foxes clearly proved against him to which G. W. in his answer gives the go by most egregiously and in none of them disproves him 5. They misrelate and give the go-by to many of our charges and sayings as for instance We quoted Jam. 3. 2. to prove all believers here to have sin or sometime to offend to this they say nothing onely quote the place and give it the go-by telling us onely that James exhorted men to let patience have its perfect work c. Which is nothing to the purpose p. 3. So what we said of the Nature of man as it is in Christ discharged of sin Law and Death in his Resurrection p. 10. Of our former Book that they represent it as if we had said it of the Nature and being of man as in us to be discharged in our Resurrection p. 11. And whereas we charged them with denying the Humanity of Christ as to its being now in him they give it the go-by answering onely that they never denied the Man Christ for his flesh is their food p. 14. Whereas they had before denied him to have any other Body then his Church p. 8. And to our saying that Christ is not really and personally in the believer as in Heaven but by Faith they let go the words personally and as in Heaven in their answer and traduce us as denying any real being of him by Faith in the believer p. 14. More such like dealings thou mayst find in p. 15. and 18. and divers others 6. They carry their designes by reproaches Nick-names and abusive expressions in which also much hatred malice and spite against us is made evident to be in them and so that they are far from sinlessenesse to this purpose it is that in their Title page and Post-script they Nick-name us Calling us 1. Teachers of the People called Moorians or Manifestarians and called by some Free-willers and Independants which what can it proceed from but their hatred of us and indignation against us Seeing 1. The Names we own not nor are the People we Teach so called as Moorians that we know of T. M sen it seems for affirming not of himself as his own but from the Testimony of Christ and his Spirit recorded in the Scriptures that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the World and gave himself a ransom for all men and is by virtue thereof the Mediator of God and men the propitiation for the sins of the whole World and extends to men meanes leading them to Repentance and is ready to receive such as in the means are prevailed with to believe and this a good ground and motive to Repentance Faith Love c. Was by some that opposed those truths standered and called Papists or Arminian and some of the same mind with him in those truths were by means of a certain Manciple in one of the Colledges that turned Almanack-maker and reproachfully devising that Name called Moorians by some drunkards profane and cavilling persons but never owned by him nor by any of his friends much less by us or the people we teach nor do we know of any civil people or others these revilers excepted that say or write of us or of any people that they are the people called Moorians as these men call themselves in divers of their writings the Quakers the people called Quakers which makes it lawful for us also without reproach to give them that name by way of distinction in our speaking or writing of them as the names Herodians Sadduces and Pharisees are given in the Scripture to and were owned by those people 's so called without reproach to them And the rather because the Name Quakers fathers their Doctrine upon no man as the name Moorian doth nor charges it with any particular evil Opinion as the other name Manifestarian and Free-Willers import though had they been thereby wronged and reproached yet the Spirit of Truth would have led them not to return reviling for reviling reproach for reproach and to joyn hands with drunkards and others so that herein they are convicted to be sinners being guilty of reviling As also in that 2. They add or Manifestarians as if Moorian and Manifestarian were the same with them this is another of their spiteful reproaches against
lay any thing to their charge nor did God because he forgave justified and owned them through Christs death and intercession for them which he needed not to have made for them or been the propitiation for their sins had they had no sins then yea it was their abiding in the faith of Christ and living upon him as the propitiation for their sins in which they sinned not and the ceasing to live upon that as of no need for a man as having no sins for Christ to be the propitiation for is one way of going out from Christ into a mans self and so of not abiding in him not say we their sins were not destroyed as to the dominion of them over them much less that they were not freed from them through Christs mediation as to the imputation of them they were covered though they were there to cover they adde W. F. John did not say if we are not all sinners we deceive our selves but if we say we have no sin and have not sinned which if the little children that John wrote to that they might not sin had sin then John might say we have sin for he numbred himself with them as friends or those whose sins were forgiven and yet the yong men and Fathers he wrote to had overcome the wicked one and had the word of God abiding in them 1 Joh. 2. Rep. What confused deceitfull stuffe is this for 1. What doth that word which belong to and agree with And how come in those words or those whose sins were forgiven or how hang they with what went before them 2. Are they not all sinners that have sin and that have sinned What call they them then And if they had sin then how were they sinless as they plead 3. And what if John say not so yet Paul said of whom viz sinners I am the chief and said so When he wrote to Timothy and was an Apostle and James says in many things not onely we have sinned but in the presenttense we offend all are not offenders sinners 4. If the little children wrote to that they might not sin had sin what becomes then of their former argument from exhortations to be perfect or not to sin c. 5. And if John might thence say we have sin as numbring himself with them as friends what hypocrites be they then to fall so foul upon us because numbering our selves with the Nation we said we have neglected and long abused the truth But yet 6. How prove they that it was onely the little children that might have sin seeing James sayes in many things we offend all if we all then not the little children only for they were not all the body of them 't is but a presumption without proof that he onely numbred himself with the little children without any ground for it in themselves Nay it is contrary to what James saith 7. They say or those whose sins were forgiven why then be they not blind guides to say they whom the blood of Christ cleanseth from all sin have no sin in them if those that had their sins forgiven might have sin in them they that had their sins forgiven had they not all forgiven and is not forgiveness of sin cleansing from sin and that cleansing too most properly from it which is by the blood of Christ Rom. 5. 9. And if persons that have all their sins forgiven may have sin who then may not that are here They imply the young men and fathers who had overcome the wicked one and had the word of God a biding in them but then 8. Had not the little children that had their sins forgiven them overcome the wicked one and had they not the word of God abiding in them They had the same thing in substance with the Fathers for the Fathers knew him that was from the beginning and the little children knew the Father is not the Father he that was from the beginning Were they children without the word of God abiding in them or without overcoming the wicked one David says he had hid the word of God in his heart that he might not sin against him and yet how often complains he of sin and praies to have removed from him the way of lying and implies that his eyes wandred after vanity and that his waies were not yet so directed as to keep his statutes and have respect to all Gods commandements What else means Oh that my waies were directed that I might keep thy statutes and then shall I not be ashamed when I shall have respect to all thy commandements Psal 119. 5 6. 11. 29. 36. And had not Paul overcome the wicked one when he sayes sin dwelt in him Nor James when he said in many things we offend all surely they had so that their reasonings are very aiery and without any proof from Scripture or any thing but their own authority to warrant them W. and F. To Prov. 20. 9. Who can say I have made my heart clean they say this is not against them for they themselves do not say that they have made their hearts clean it being Chrsts work to cleanse and ever to have perfected them that are sanctified and Solomon saith the just man walketh in his integrity and the righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way Rep. They are shrewdly driven to their shifts for they durst not repeate the whole Scripture we all edged because they know not how to stare in the face of it and find out an handsome glosse to elude it what could they not think of one shift to evade that clause I am pure from my sin Yea their shift for the other is like Adams fig leaves for what though it be Christs work to cleanse yet the Apostles exhort believers to cleanse themselves from all filthiness of flesh and Spirit may not a man as well collect from thence that a man may cleanse himself from all filthiness of flesh and Spirit and so make his heart clean as from other exhortations to be perfect to infer that a man may be free from all inherency of sin here Again Peter saies seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit and in such a sense who can say I have made my heart clean so as that I am pure from my sin And surely though Solomon saies the just man walketh in his integrity yet he speaks not of a just man that hath no sin or sinneth not for he saies there is none such upon earth Eccles 7. 20. Which Scripture next you shamefully elude for because it s said there is not a just man upon earth that doth good and sinneth not they sâ—y W and F. Mark for there among those that were in their changeable State nor among them that are born of God for they cannot sin Rep. Ah fie for shame where speaks he of such a the◠〈…〉 in their changeablâ— State Doth not George Whitehead en 〈…〉 and doth the word
the living God he was before the World was Reply But this too is false and fallacious for Christ is the Power of God as he was Crucified 1 Cor. 1. 22 23 24. and to know him so is not to know him as he was before the World was he was the Power of God before the World was but to know him as he was the Power of God before the World was is not the knowledge of him to Salvation To assert it is not to confesse but vertually to deny him as come in the Flesh The like we may say of the other phrase he is not the living God the Saviour of all men as he was before the World was for he is the living God now in the Manhood or as Immanuel God with us as made flesh and dead and raised but so he was not before the World was and as not the living God in mans Nature or Incarnate or promised so to be as such considered or as therethrough made manifest he is not since the fall the object of our knowledge to Salvation and though they say they do not deny his knowledge as in his flesh that is an Equivocal deceitful speech its evident what they say puts no necessity or grants not the sufficiency of the knowledge of him as come in the Flesh and so doth not confesse or magnifie it but exalts as sufficient that that was before and without it W. and F. They say When we can prove nothing against them and yet we have made good all our charge against them hitherto we have invented these lies against them that they may and can in their canting Language say he is manifest in England and is persecuted and dies and rises as well as in Judea and Jerusalem and that however they make no thing of his being born suffering and dying in the flesh and there they say they utterly deny us and charge us as forgers of lies for they never use they say such canting Language against Christ but own his sufferings in Judea and Jerusalem as he was a true offering and propitiation for the sins of the whole World whose sufferings were effectual both for the pacifying the Fathers wrath and for the reconciling the whole World as is witnessed by them who receive the power of his life which was manifested through Death to them that truly believed through Christs sufferings Reply To which we say that they use such canting Language we call for witness John Toldervy in his Foot out of the Snare where he tells of the Quakers turning all the Scriptures into Allegories as about Adam Moses Christ Jerusalem c. Which neither James Naylor in his Book against him contradicts or faults him for nor doth himself retract in what he write by way of submission to James Naylor in his Book called the Naked Truth yea and in a Letter to us George Whitehead saith that the Blood of Christ suffereth mark suffereth with Christ where he suffers marke its in the Present Tense for the prisoner which by the Blood of the Covenant is to be brought out of the Pit which can hold no water Now if Judea and Jerusalem be in men and Christ suffereth yet for the prisoner to be brought out by the Blood of the Covenant cannot they say Judea and Jerusalem are in England as well as any where Yea said they not above that that our faith is to be rooted out that is not grounded in Christs appearing in us Now if their faith be grounded in Christs appearing in them must it not be in Christs dying and crucifying in them if at all in his dying But indeed it is not grounded in his dying at all if it be in the knowledge of him as he was before the World was and so to what purpose say they or what do they but cant when they say that they own his sufferings in Judea and Jerusalem as he was a true offering and propitiation for the sins of the whole World and that his sufferings were effectual both for the pacifying the Fathers wrath and reconciling the whole World Let them tell us when they write again where that Judea and Jerusalem is whether it be not in them yea or nay by his sufferings at which they are reconciled to God how do they own any sufferings in Judea else Not as any thing their faith is grounded in unless they were sufferings in them and he appeared in them in those sufferings and so the Judea and Jerusalem where he appeared and suffered be in them seeing they root up the Faith otherwise grounded and how was his suffering in Judea without or any sufferings past effectual for the reconciling the whole World or pacifying the Fathers wrath and yet Christ suffereth for the Prisoner to be brought forth by the blood of the Covenant which prisoner we shall finde by their sayings afterward to be Christ too and what need of the owning him as so suffering if it be not the knowledge of him to Salvation but as he was before the World was when he suffered not They that consult with their Books may see but canting in all this for if we may believe what is printed as their Answer to the Cambridge Queries they justified Richard Hubberthorns saying that Christs coming in the flesh was but a figure which since I writ the former expressions I see not disowned but justified by G. W. in his answer to them with one or two filly frivolous pleas as how could Christ else be said to have been transfigured And did not he namely the Scholer he answers never read that Christ is the figure his Fathers substance c Which may serve to cheat silly men and women but if Christs coming was but a figure then not the true Pacifier of Gods wrath nor reconciliation of the World they also falsifie our saying in the last clause recited for it was not as they repeat it but thus however in the foresaid expression they make nothing of his being born suffering c. Those words in the foresaid expression are subtilly left out the better to hide their deceit in faulting us from those that have not their Books to compare their sayings with and we appeal to all whether if the knowing him after the Spirit as he was before the World was be the knowledge of him to Eternal Salvation they therein make anything to purpose of all his dying and suffering in the flesh Seeing those things were not done or suffered by him in the Spirit as he was before the World was W. and F. p. 13. They charge us with belying Geo. Whitehead in saying he alleadged 2 Cor. 5. 16. To prove that the Apostles did not know Christ as one that suffered in the flesh or to be in the flesh but it was brought they say against our knowledge which is Carnal and stands in Immagination and neither truly know Christ as he was in the flesh nor after the Spirit but contend against the knowing him as he was before
the World was Reply That we did not bely G. W. but they us the repeating those things that passed will evidence we urged that Ed. Burroughs foresaid passage confest not Christ come in the flesh and G. W. to justifie his saying alleadged that the Apostles thenceforth knew Christ no more after the flesh which to what purpose could it be if not to insinuate that to know him after the Spirit is to know him as he was before the World was and to know him otherwise viz. as one that since the World came and suffered in the flesh for men is to know him after the flesh Why else was he beaten from it and waved it upon our clearing it that it was the Apostles knowing him as one that dyed for all that led him to let go that knowledge of him after the flesh there denyed by him and therefore that knowing him as one that died was not the knowledge after the flesh Nor were we declaring or speaking about our knowing Christ one way or other when he brought it but against the knowledge they plead for as the knowledge to Salvation false it is therefore that he brought it against our knowledge of him which we matter not his reproaching of who is grievously and notoriously erroneous as hath been seen yea doth not his distinction here in his reproaching our knowing Christ as he was in the flesh or after the Spirit plainly imply that the knowing Christ as he was in the flesh is not with them the knowing him after the Spirit so that the knowing him after the Spirit is not the knowing him as come in the flesh contrary to 1 John 4. 2. by which they are discovered to be Antichristians if they judge them the same why do they distinguish and divide them It plainly implyes that the Spirit after which they know him doth not teach them to know him as he was in the flesh yea its plain too that by that phrase of knowing him after the Spirit in E. â—s Book is meant a distinct knowledge from the knowing him as come in the flesh and so makes that empty and lifeless seeing here they distinguish them as different so that their own words condemn them to them that are intelligent And whereas they say we contend against knowing him as he was before the World was and neglect Christ and so against the knowledge of the Glory of God as a knowledge to Salvation Herein also are they false for it is not against the knowledge of Christ as before the world was that we contend but against their making that knowledge the knowledge of him to Salvation nor said we we do neglect Christ though who can so worthily prize and serve him as in nothing to be guilty of the neglect of him We shall God inabling be more industrious to mind him manage his truth against these mens errors then we have formerly been much lesse is there either truth or knowledge but Ignorance and Confusion in their making the knowledge of Christ as before the World was the knowledge of the Glory of God for the Glory of God is his great goodnesse manifested and brightly shining forth in Christ sent forth and crucified for us Exod. 33. 18. 2 Cor. 4. 4. 6. It is the light of the knowledge of the Glory of God that is in the Face of Jesus Christ as represented in the Gospel which preaches him crucified And so that Glory could not be known as he was before the World was for God was manifested in the flesh and not as before and without the flesh or respect to it so as to our Salvation Besides there is fallacy in saying the Spirit and Power in which the Apostles knew Christ and one another was before the World was for its one thing to say the Spirit and Power was before the World was and the object now manifested as now manifested by that Spirit and Power the knowledge whereof is to Salvation is Christ as he was before the world was and not as he was made flesh since the world Having made good these our charges of them we shall be briefer in the rest P. 13. Our distinction of the condition of the Nature of man as it is in the believer from what it is in Christ they charge with making it in the believers to be seperate from Christ To which we say we believe and say with the Apostle that the believer while in the body is absent from Christ but not seperate Yet we say his nature as in him is distinct from it as in Christ because in the believer its subject to infirmity and bodily Death in Christ it is not they deny the sinfulnesse of Nature commonly called Original sin contrary to Psal 51. 5. Job 14. 4. Rom. 5. 12. 18 19. And say that to make the believer to have two Heritages a Natural and a Spiritual is an old delusion of the Priests it seems then believers have no such Heritage as bodily weaknesse or Death or if they have it it s a Spiritual and not a Natural Heritage to them is it But we believe and so do all that know anything that the believer by Nature and after the Flesh as a man inherits one thing and after the Spirit as a believer another After the flesh and by Nature the Image of the Earthly and after the Spirit the Image of the Heavenly was not Paul one of the Priests that here they reproach for he taught such a distinction in 1 Cor. 15. 44. 46. 49. There is a Natural Body and there is a Spiritual Body is the believer heir to both by Nature or to neither of them Naturally Let them answer directly if they reproach that distinction which holds also in sin and Righteousnesse if the Priest Paul may be believed Rom. 7. 24. 25. For in his flesh he found the law of sin and had sin dwelling we suppose that was no Spiritual heritage and in his mind the Law of God we suppose that was not Natural and do not these men imply the same they condemn in saying the Believers witnesse a better Heritage then sin in their Nature Do they not imply that they witnesse that too though a better besides However may not believers witnesse that and yet witnesse also a better then that as Paul did Paul said in him in his flesh dwelt no good thing whence had he that Heritage and yet in his minde was the Law of God was not that a better Heritage W. and F. p. 14. To our charging them with denying the humanity of Christ they say changing our phrase They never denyed the Man Christ Reply If they deny him now to be a man and to have a humane Body then they deny his humanity which was it we charged them with and that they deny his having an humane body or any other then his Church is evident by what they said page 8. besides the Body his Church they grant him to have nothing more of man then he
forth his advice and thoughts which he sayes the Lord commanded not but he and speaks therein as one that thought he had the Spirit of God to guide him therein 1 Cor. 7 12 13 14 15 16 25 26 40. and when he wills Believers not to despise prophecyings he bids try all things and hold fast that that is good as implying that even in those that prophecy according to Truth as to the main fundamentals of it for others prophecyings are to be despised and rejected and counted accursed Gal. 1. 8 9. yet there may be possibly some things of mans thoughts and mistakes creep in and therefore from such we ought not to swallow down for Truth all that they say or conceive because they say it but to try what is said and accordingly as we see Truth in it receive it but their tryal of what T. M. said doth not discover it to be unsound onely they discover themselves void of judgement for may it be as well said Adam had no life in Paradise as no blood Is there no more said of his having life then of his having blood Is it not said he breathed into him the breath of life and he became a living Soul Is it not said God gave him commandment what to eat and what to forbear And he called the beasts by their names and slept and waked c. Are not these certain demonstrations that he had life But is there any such saying that demonstrates he had blood he said not of his wife this is flesh of my flesh and blood of my blood had it been so said T. M. would have been as far from supposing him to have had no blood then as now he is from supposing him to have had no life But how prove they that Adam had Blood Why Blood is the Life T. M. may answer it is so in the fallen state follows it it was so there Is there no difference between is now and was then They add he made of one blood all Nations but neither doth that cross T. Ms. apprehensions for there was no Nation nor man made of Adam before his fall he fell before he propagated and so by T. Ms. conception too had Blood for them to be made of before they were made of him and as to that question Whether we believe there was no blood left in Christs Body when crucified How should we certainly believe what is not revealed some judge it probable there was not because it is said after his side was pierced forthwith came there out Blood and water water is mentioned last as if the Blood might be all drained out till water followed it but we do not make that an Article of our Creed that it was so we find some good men that had the oversight of the Churches here in Queen Elizabeth and the following dayes did not dis-believe or deny such a conception for it is Printed amongst those Songs and Hymns set before or after the Psalms in the Complaint of a Sinner thus The Scripture doth declare no drop of blood in thee For that thou didst not spare to shed each drop for me T is probable had they thought it an error they would scarce have let it be printed there But this is of those things of which it use to be said quisquis suo sensu abundet let every man judge as he is perswaded in his own minde What they say of T. Ms. denying Christs Body to be a carnal Body and opposing hereto his own words and the Priests mentioning Priest Higginson and others affirming that Christ is in Heaven with a Carnal Body is erroneous too For though T. M. denyed his Body to be carnal as he did well to do yet that did not contradict his saying it is a Body that hath Flesh and Bones in it glorified for fleshly and carnal are not alwayes one and the same carneum and carnale differ as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Greek sure an heart of flesh that the Lord promises is not a carnal heart Ezek. 36. 26. What Priest Higginson and others affirmed we know not its probable they bely him and them as they stick not to do us That the Body of Christ is seen and known onely with that by which God is seen and known hath this unsavoury conception intimated in it that Christs Body is as spiritual and invisible to a bodily eye as God who is a Spirit and not a Body is But how then did Paul see him raised and could witnesse it if he be as invisible to the humane eye as God is Or if he see nothing that ever was dead and that he was seen of Paul as a person raised from the dead is plain in 1 Cor. 15. 4 5. 8. and 9. 1. sure Paul was not the last to whom Christ was seen by Faith and as spiritually demonstrated to the Soul no nor the last of those to whom Christ was so seen in those times Therefore when he sayes he was seen of him last he must needs mean it of his Body seen and seen by Bodily sight as the other Apostles see him by Bodily sight or else he must speak very inconsistently with himself which we may not grant In our pag. 12. I mistook in my hast and writ Job for Elihu which with my Pen I corrected too in divers Books before I gave them out after I minded it yet they declaim against this as if it was some hainous fault They say It was Elihu who was one that spake against Job for Job knew God when they that came against him did not And so they mention with an addition of a lye of their own that I pleaded for sin in it a Lettter to Elizabeth Vnderwood where I brought Eliphaz his words that say His Angels he charged with folly for which G. W. charges me J. H. because Eliphaz was one against whom Gods wrath was kindled and who spake not the thing of God that was right To which charges I say to the first of them First I confesse my self a man and subject to forgetfulness and oversights especially when in hast with businesse and so I did in my forgetfulnesse write the word Job for Elihu because the Book doth wholly bear the Title of Job But Secondly what great error was in that seeing Elihu was an holy man as well as Job and came not against Job otherwise then God himself after did to reprove him for some rash expressions which Job also afterward acknowledged his evil in and Job as much implyed his not knowing God in the sense Elihu speaks of in Job 42. 3. I have uttered sayes he that I understood not and things too wonderful for me and Elihu speaks as much of his knowing God as Job Job 32. 18. I am full of matter the spirit within me constraineth me c. and 33. 3. 6. my words shall be of the uprightness of my heart my lips shall utter knowledge clearly which he could
c. They may if they see it convenient according to the instructions and liberty given them by him take such things as God by his providence orders to them and sets before them Be it the Tenth or what part it will that is appointed them by the Fathers of the Countrey of that which is at their dispose or that is otherwise produced to them by the Gospel But all that take Tythes we own not no more then we do all that refuse them we make not their taking or leaving them our rule for knowing or owning Preachers but leave that gross way of judgeing to such as being Reprobate concerning the Faith have no better rule to walk by To the other two parts of this Question we say 1. We distinguish between taking Hire Gifts or Rewards and Preaching for them and so being hirelings 2. Such as Preach for Hire or for Gifts and rewards and so for filthy Lucre in their so doing we own not but are instructed to flee that vile lust and to warn others of it 1 Pet. 5. 2. Yet it is not our parts to judge the hearts of men yea though therebe some failings but rejoyce if Christ be Preached and not to account any to be hirelings until it appear by their fleeing when the Wolfe comes to devour the sheep of their faith and hope of the Gospel and so of their fallowship in the Word and Ordinances thereof he that then neglecteth and fleeth from the sheep as not caring for them but leaving them to the Thief and Wolfe he flyeth because he is an hireling and by his flight may be judged so to be John 10. 10 11 13. 3. Yet some that do or may receive hire and gifts we own as being no hirelings but moved and carried forth by the love of Christ constraining them to Preach the Gospel and perswade men to be reconciled to God as the Apostle 2 Cor. 5. 14 15. 18 19. and 6. 1. â—â— who yet receive hire or took wages 2 Cor. 11. 8. and gifts Phil. 4. 14 15 16 17 18. as Elisha did 2 Kings 4 42. and Jeremiah Chap. â—0 5. But 4. Such as bring another Doctrine then that which the Apostles have Preached and delivered we own not no though they Preach it freely as it may seem the false Apostles boasted they did 2 Cor. 11 12 13. Yea the Wolf comes without hireing desiring or sending for to the sheep and barks against hirelings too seeking to scare them away yet is no better friend to the sheep but a far more dangerous and hurtful Enemy for he cometh not but to scatter catch rob and destroy John 10. Yea further if such persons coming to such a contrary end and with another message should not onely scorn 〈◊〉 but also give rewards to hire others to come in to them However Ignorant and Worldly minded men may admire such yet in the account of God and those taught of him it agravates their sin and shame Ezek. 16. 31. 33 34. 5. It s given us as a Character of false Apostles and deceitful workers transforming themselves into the Apostles of Christ to boast of and commend themselves to others by their Preaching freely and great labours and sufferings and to seek occasions where they can right or wrong for report say they and we will report it Jer. 20. 10. against the true Ministers of Christ to reproach and vilifie them by their taking wages or gifts see 2 Cor. 11. 8. 13. c. 24. Query What is the Soul of man which the Word of God is to save and what is the difference between the Soul and the Spirit seeing the Word of God divides them asunder Answ This hath two Questions distinct the first is what is the Soul of man which the Word of God is to save To which we say It s the Soul of man that God hath made Isa 57. 16. And that by sin was defiled corrupted and lost for the Son of man came to save that which was lost But happily they think to intimate something in this to strengthen their denial of the Resurrection and Redemption of the dead body as to say that because the Soul onely is mentioned as to be saved by the Word of God Jam. 1. 21. and 5. 20. 1 Pet. 1. 9. Therefore the dead body is not to be saved or Redeemed from death after the natural and bodily death We therefore further say 1. That the Soul of man is understood in Scripture in a twofold sence 1 Sometimes for the Spirit Soul or inward man distinct from the body or outward man which at death departs out of the body and returns to God that gave it to be appointed to its proper place and still retains a sensible being either in prison or at liberty even till the Resurrection of the body when they shall be for ever reunited Gen. 35. 18. Luke 12. 20. Eccles 12. 7. 3. John 2. And this is that in which the saving work of Christ begins and especially hath its efficacy now while yet the body is mortal and decaying though it also works in and through the mortal body to the devoting it to Christ and strengthening it to service and suffering and preserving blamelesse 2. By the Soul or Souls of men is frequently meant the whole person Soul and body Gen. 12. 5. and 14. 21. and 46. 18. 22. 26 27. Deut. 10. 22. Acts 7. 14. 1 Pet 3 20. Revel 18. 13. with Ezek. 27. 13. And so in the Creation of man it is said the Lord God formed man of the dust of the Earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of Life and man became a living Soul And these are the Souls even the whole persons of men for every of whom Jesus Christ by the Grace of God tasted death and gave himself a ransome that through him they might be saved yea when the Soul and Body are spoken of distinctly they are both mentioned as bought with one price that God might be Glorified in both 1 Cor. 6. 20. And so that both even the whole man might be Sanctified and preserved in Christ and so blamlesse even to the coming of the Lord 1 Thes 5. 23. And as in Adam all die so in Christ shall all be made alive and appear before the Judgement seat of Christ to receive the things done in the body as before is shewed at large 2. By the Word whose Name is also called the Word of God is sometimes meant that Word that was in the beginning with God which Word is God one God with the Father Eternal Spirit though distinct in respect of manner of being in the Godhead the same that in the fulnesse of time was made flesh and in that body of his flesh is now raised from the dead and Glorified with the Fathers own self and made both Lord and Christ John 1. 1. 2. 14. 1 John 1. 1. 2. and 5. 7. And sometimes by the Word of God which also was called the Word of Christ of
the Kingdom of Grace of Salvation of Life is meant that Declaration or Revelation of his Name and Grace in Christ as witnessed and spoken forth by the one mouth of his Holy Apostles and Prophets since the World began who have spoken to us in the Name of the Lord Psal 147. 19. Mark 7 13. Acts 3. 21. and 10. 36. Tit. 1. 3. Col. 3. 16. John 5. 24 38. and 8. 31. Mat. 13. 19. Acts 20. 32. Phil. 2. 16. 2 Cor. 3. And it is the Word in this sence the Gospel of Christ or Preaching of his Crosse that is the Arm or Power of God to save even to open the eyes of the blind and turn them from darknesse to light and from the Power of Satan to God and to the further saving the believers here in this Life 1 Cor. 1. 18. Rom. 1. 16 17. This is made able through him that is declared in it and Spiritually present with it to save the Soul to build up and give the inheritance in the first fruits of the Spirit to the making the Spirit alive for the Righteousnesse sake while yet the body is dead because of sin and to preserve the whole man blamelesse to the coming of Christ For this is that which he the Son of man sowes in the heart and ingrafts there for the saving the Soul Jam. 3. 21. Mat. 13 19. Acts. 20 32. And so his faithful Servants that have it in their hearts Ministering in this Word are said instrumentally to convert and save the Soul Jam. 5. 20. Acts 26. 18. with 1 Cor. 3. 5. 11. and 4. 15. 2 Cor. 3. 3 And so our further answer is 1. The saving or Salvation of the Soul includes the Salvation of the whole man 1 Pet. 1. 9. Jam. 5. 20. with Psal 33. 19 20. and 34. 22. and 72. 13 14. For that which is not received now in some first fruits of enjoyment yet is assured in and with Christ and received by Faith and in the hope that is by him as Rom. 8. 10 11. 23. Col. 1. 27. with Heb. 6 19 20. Besides some of the forementioned Scriptures speak of the Redemption and Salvation to be revealed in the last time in which the body shall by him be redeemed from death and all deceit and violence and their former sufferings be remembred as Rom. 8 18. 23. And do evidently include that under the redeeming of their Soul as Psal 72. 13 14. 2. Though no Scripture saith the Soul onely as distinguished from the body is to be saved by Christ But contrariwise that through him both may be saved Yet in this saving work effected by his word or through the Preaching of his Crosse the Soul is onely mentioned in divers Scriptures as the subject of it for these Reasons 1. It is the Spirit or Soul distinct that is made alive and so chiefly the subject of the Saving or Redeeming here effected in this day while yet the body distinct though devoted and yeilded up to his dispose and so in some 〈…〉 yet remaineth mortal and so dead by reason of sin and so even those that have the first fruits of the Spirit yet wait for the Adoption that is the Redemption of the body and though the inward man be renewed day by day yet the outward man decayes and perisheth Rom 8. 10. 23. 2 Cor. 4 16. 2. The saving which is now effected in them is wrought mediately through that word Preached in and by outward means wayes and instruments whereas that compleat saving in which the dead body shall be raised redeemed and fashioned in to the likenesse of his glorious body though it shall be by Christ and by his mighty Voice which now breathes and is put forth in and with the Gospel yet by an immediate and wonderful putting forth of it without the use of outward means and instruments according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself Phil. 3. 21. Rom. 8. 11. The next part of their Query is what is the difference between the Soul and the Spirit seeing the Word of God divides them asunder To that we answer 1. The text saith not that the Word of God makes a difference between or devides them asunder one from another But that it pierceth even to the dividing asunder both Soul and Spirit and so of the Joints and Marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart That is it pierceth through all and so as much through Spirit as Soul to a discerning and manifesting too at his pleasure the counsels of the heart even after the similitude of a Sword that pierceth through a man which devides not one part from another but makes way for it self Yet 2. There is distinction between Soul and Spirit in the Scriptures though sometimes both are comprehended under either of the termes and as distinguished the Spirit of a man his mind or understanding with the inclination or bent of his Soul is the Candle of the Lord which when lighted by him by his inspiration giving understanding and fixing it searcheth or the Lord by it searcheth all the inward parts of the belly And the Soul is that belly or inward parts in Solomons sence searched by it Prov. 20. 27. Even all the faculties of the Soul and its exercises with the thoughts and intents of the heart c. as Heb. 4. 12 13. Answerable to which distinct sence of Soul and Spirit is that profession Luke 1. 46 47. and calling upon both Psal 103. 1. And the Apostles prayer that their whole Spirit and Soul and Body might be preserved blamelesse c. 1 Thes 5 23. Both which Soul and Spirit are oft included in one of the tearms as 1 Cor. 6. 20. and 3 John 2. And so the whole Soul or Spirit and Soul may here be renewed delivered and preserved through the Grace of God in Christ bringing Salvation from under the guilt and bondage of sin while yet the body is dead and by putting on that new man the body also may be delivered and preserved from under the dominion of sin that henceforth it should not serve or fulfill it though sin be still in the members warring against that new Law of the mind Rom. 6. 12 13 14. 19. and 7. 15. to the end and 8. 1. 13. and 12. 1. 2. Gal 5. 16 17 18. Ephes 4. 20. 24. c. Col. 3. 1. 5. 10. 25. Question Whether men must be justified by the same Righteousnesse of Christ in them which Sanctifies them yea or nay Answ The true Prophets and Apostles never use the phrase of Christs Righteousnesse in men when speaking of that by which men are Sanctified or Justified for though the sanctifying and justifying effecacies of it be in them as also in Heaven with the Father for them yet that which hath those effecacies and so by which they are sanctified and justified is the Righteousnesse wrought and perfect in himself for them in whom they are compleat For he
of Christ after the spirit as he was before the world was when as he was not come in the flesh or promised as one to come is the knowledge of him to Eternal Salvation Book p. 6 7 8. Answ p. 48 49 50. XV. That the Scriptures are not a medium of faith Book p. 18 Answ p. 58. 59. XVI That the light wherewith Christ lighteth men is not both natural and spiritual light or good Book p. 20. It seems he is not by their Doctrine the Authour and procurer of all good to men both natural and spiritual and so we are to thank him and God by him for both see our answer p. 61. XVII That they that speak not according to the Law and Testimony and whom we should not seek to for direction though they have no morning light in them yet have Christs evening or candle-light and so that by the Prophet Isaiahs counsel men should not listen to them that have but Christs evening or candle-light Isaiah 8 20. and yet the Apostle Peter by these mens Doctrine commended the Believers for taking heed to the evening or candle-light of Christ that was not the morning light 2 Pet. 1. 19 20. and as if Christs candle-light would lead men to speak otherwise than according to his Law and Testimony and yet is to be heeded to by men Answ p. 62. XVIII They deny the continuance and usefulnesse of the outward Ordinances of Baptisme and Lords Supper or eating Bread and Wine in remembrance of him till the end of the World in the Church of Christ in a manner deriding them Quest 19 20 21 22. XIX They intimately deny justification by a righteousnesse imputed to us contrary to Rom. 4. 5. 11. and maintain a justification by righteousnesse within which indeed in them is a meer unrighteousnesse as denying and evacuating the virtues of Christs sufferings in his own personal body and his sacrifice for us Quest 25. XX. That to endeavour to detect make manifest their delusions or the delusions of any others and to preserve people from them is a being impatient under raging against Gods judgements or else that it is no judgement of God to have delusions and Deluders sent amongst us to exercise and trouble us or that we ought not to contend against them Book p. 23. Answ 68 69. XXI That these Teachers whose hearers do sleight and neglect the truth preached by them and remain not withstanding it slothful formal covetous c. are false prophets by which conclusion they involve him who said he had laboured in vain and spent his strength for nought that would have gathered Jerusalems children often but yet they were not gathered even Christ himself Isa 49. 4 5. Mat. 23. 37. Yea and all the Prophets and Apostles of Christ who had many such hearers as if they also were false prophets Book p. 28 29. Answ p 7â— 74. XXII That Christ is a seed of God in men which in some wants Redemption and is burthened by corruption and desires to be free from the burthen of sin and alwayes to do his Fathers will and so hath not ceased from sin in them nor can do in all things his Fathers will but needs a power to reach to him where it is begotten to set him free redeem or raise him up in which power he arises in them that believe in the light for their Redemption Book p. 21. Answ 63 64 65. XXIII That Christ is first known as one without form or comâ—linesse and is in some a seed that yet suffers and in others reigns and is known to be Prince of peace so that he both suffers and reigns at once in divers persons Book p. 21 22. Answ p. 63 64 65. Such be the Doctrines discovered in their writings to us concerning the last two because therein is a discovery of that Imagination of theirs which they call Christ and which they preach as the true Christ or as James Naylor in his Book called Love to the Lost sayes is the seed of Abraham which Christ takes after the flesh We shall note some things here more particularly as 1. That by Flesh and Seed of Abraham after the flesh they mean not any natural Seed or Body of man but a certain seed or principle in every mans mind whether he know it or no which in some men is not fully able but desirous to follow after God and be free from sin they say not to free him in whom it is from sin but to be free it self from sin and yet this seed with them is the Christ the Word that was made flesh the true light that is in every man that comes into the World and that is manifested in men to take away their sins yet it cannot be said it seems of it that in it is no sin but for it desires to be free from sin and follow God but it seems doth not nor can yet in some men till raised by the power and when so manifested in men they are perfectly sinlesse 2. When they say this Seed or Christ is known in some men as suffering and burthened with corruption and desiring to be free from sin c. is not that the death of their Christ or do they not blaspheme the true Christ who is raised and made a quickening spirit while they represent him as one not able to do his Fathers will in some men and as one that needs Redemption and to be set free himself 3. When they say this seed the power reaches to where it is begotten and in the power it arises c. is not that the Resurrection of Christ with them for mans Redemption and Justification and so the believer in the light for redemption believes first in a dying Christ dying yet in him unlesse the light he believes in be another Christ or some thing besides Christ or rather their candle-light which is put out in the wicked is all one with their Christ suffering and making his grave with the wicked and their Christ Redeemed and rising in men is the light reviving as the morning light in them and then the man is redeemed and raised sinlesse too and so there is their and their Christs Resurrection together 4. And yet again mind their strange expressing of this Redemption and Resurrection of their Christ This Seed say they the Power reaches to where it is begotten and in the Power it ariseth What is this power that they say reaches to that Seed is it Christ or not Christ If it be not Christ then it seems their Christ crucified or burthened with corruption is not the power of God but needs another power to Redeem him that is not he no alas their Christ lies strugling under corruption as weak it seems as the poor believer himself that cryes out wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this Death So that what Paul said of himself as carnal and sold under sin is true of their Christ in some he
would rise and cannot he wants power he would do the will of the Father but cannot it seems till the power reach to him and so he may say too as Paul said To will is present with me but how to perform what I would I find not If the power be the Christ then how was Christ there where he lies burthened with corruption in man and making his grave with the wicked before he was begotten for the power is not begotten in all that Christ is in as a suffering seed and so he suffers before he be begotten and he by whom all things were made is in some men and yet his power not begotten which when it reaches to the seed it rises in it by degrees surely as men in whom he is give way to him 5. Yea here we may see the reigning of their Christ too and of his Saints with him in that they say in some he suffers and in others he reigns and is known to be Prince of Peace Is Christ divided then or doth some part of him in some suffer and other part reign in others it seems he hath neither done dying nor been at any time without his Reigning and his to Reign with him so that here we have the Mystery of their Religion 6. Nay what is this seeds rising but the Redemption of the body with them for as for the Redemption of any Natural body of man from the Natural death on them or judgement on them after that death they plainly deny it onely they talk of a seed shall rise and what is that but this seed that they say Christ takes after the flesh 7. Note here also how this their imagined Christ differs from our Christ the true Christ witnessed to and Preached in the Scriptures for their Rock is not as our Rock their Christ as our Christ themselves being Judges Deut. 32. 31. with their Book pag 10 our Rock is God in Christ and so our Lord Jesus Christ between whom and their Christ consider these differences 1. Our Christ is that Holy and Innocent man that was born of the Virgin Mary and lived in his personal body upon the Earth in the dayes of Augustus and Tiberius Cesars amongst the Jews And who in that body of his was crucified or nayled on a Tree died and was buried and rose again the third day and appeared in the same body to his Disciples after which he in that his body left the World ascending up from the Earth into the highest Heavens where he is Glorified with Gods own Self the fulnesse of the Godhead dwelling in him bodily He being God over all blessed for ever This is he whom these perverters deny and jears at as having the form and body of a Man and set up another thing in his stead that hath neither personal head hands nor feet flesh or bones proper to himself but an imaginary seed within every man desiring to follow after God and be free from sin which they call the Light the Christ the Power of God c. 2. Our Christ in a personal body of his own distinst from and out of our bodies bare our sins to and on the Tree or Crosse and so in that body died for our sins and in the same body rose for our justification that we believing in him might be justified by his Blood and accepted in his Righteousnesse and from thence have sin die in us and we dying to sin might live to Righteousnesse These plead for a Christ without any body of man distinct from others or out of them but a certain seed with an imaginary flesh and blood dying and beating sin in every man and rising where the Power reaches to it in men having no other body but what is in some men dying yea in every man in its time and in some men rising but not in all 3. Our Christ in his said body did once and but once in the last Ages of the World little more then one thousand six hundred years since suffer and die and rise again and can now therein die no more death hath no more dominion over him but he is alive for evermore in that body Glorified in the Heavens which these perverters deny But their Christ is alwayes suffering and so dying in some men and rising in others and reigning in some and so hath been alwayes dying and rising in mâ—n from the beginning of the World and so will be to the end their words plainly enough import as much 4. Our Christ by that his death once suffered and in his Resurrection in that his body that body once in sacrifice offered up to God hath overcome Death and the Devil slain the enmity and taken out of the way all that was contrary to us redeemed us from the curse of the Law obtained eternal Redemption for us and received the immeasurable fulness of the Spirit in the man and for men and is become Wisdom Righteousnesse Sanctification and Redemption being by virtue of all his foresaid sufferings and sacrifice the propitiation for the sins of the whole World of man kind the Mediator of God and men that all that believe in him may by Faith be reckoned after him and receive of the virtues hereof a first fruits of the Spirit making their Spirits liâ—e for Righteousnesse sake and giving them the hope of the fulness in Soul and Body at his coming again to be enjoyed by them for which they wait of all which these Perverters make nothing as James Naylor writ to a certain Gentleman by way of reproach Thou lookest to be saved by a man that dyed 1600. years ago this is that they scoff at giving out in their words that the death they mean of is not the death of a man in a Mortal body which was Natural and must have dyed they say though sin had never been But the death they mean is the death of the Seed or Christ that is alwayes dying and rising sometime in one and sometime in another which death and resurrection they extol and account the other but a shadow and figure of 5. Our Christ being in his glorified Bodie in the Heavens the fulnesse of the Godhead dwelling in him bodily by his spirit draws in many to believe in him of whom he in his Personal body is the Head and they the Members are one spiritual body or Corporation But these Perverters denying that their Christ hath any Personal body made but one Body in and of all and that the Seed sure for the Natural Bodies of themselves and others they say must die and never rise again and therefore sure they are in their account no part of Christs Body that must live ever and sure that Seed is no Personal Body but a conceited spirit that is within them with a conceited flesh and blood in them to This is the fulnesse of God they say whereof they are every one of them in this Seed the Members such an Idol was scarce ever in any Generation
of men set up before 6. Our Christ is by his Word and spirit and the riches of his Grace in the hearts of his people by faith quickening and inlivening them which these perverters deny and jeer at and say Their Christ in all the reality of his Body with his Flesh and Blood is wholly within them for so some of them have said even sensibly bearing their sins in them though not willingly as Christ bare ours on the Tree but desiring to be free and so is rising in them and reigning in Glory So as the Redemption and Resurrection of the Body others wait for these say they have in this body within a pleasing fancy 7. Our Christ will come again personally in his own Glorious Body and every eye shall see him in which coming he will not by degrees or one after another but at once together in one moment in the twinkling of an eye change the surviving and raise the dead bodies of all that sleep in Jesus so as they shall be all mortal and meet him in the air and appear in Glory with him freed from all Hunger Persecution Sorrow and death for ever and blessed in the enjoyment of him with whom they shall reign for evermore and when he is set on his Throne he will gather all Nations before him raising all men not leaving out these Deceivers but all shall appear before his Judgement Seat even those that rebel against him and in this day deny him then shall they acknowledge him Lord and his People that have now confest him the beloved of the Lord when themselves shall be judged by him and sent into the Lake of Fire c. all which coming of his and the Resurrection of the dead and judgement after death the bodily death is by those Perverters also altogether denyed they owning no other coming of Christ then some of them enjoy now nor other Resurrection then is now sometime of one and sometime of another and yet they of them that enjoy the Resurrection of the body they talk of sometime bunger and feel pain and cry out of Persecution and must die the bodily yea and rise again to the second death too 8. Our Christ hath by his spirit so fully discovered himself in the Testimony of the Gospel that is the written verity that in and according to the plain import of the saying thereof he is to be known so far as we may know him till his coming again and by and wit that the Holy Spirit doth witnesse of him to and teach the hearts of the believers and they from the same spirit and according to the same Gospel do conside in him confesse him and hold him sorth to others and for that are opposed by these perverters Of whose Christ and their Doctrine of him though whatever is said of the true Christ or of his Church in the Scripture they apply to their false Christ and to themselves as if they meant no other Christ nor faith then the Scriptures speak of perverting them to that end Yet the scripture writing indeed speaketh not but to the condemnation overthrow and confusion thereof warning all believers not to hear or follow them nor receive them to house nor bid them God-speed But hold them accursed beware them and avoid them as Wolves false Apostles and Reprobate concerning the Faith Such the Doctrine and Principles which these men call the truth which indeed is errour and darknesse let the Scriptures be compared 2. For the manner of their managing and maintaining their doctrine let these particulars amongst divers others be noted 1. They come in their own name or authority boasting of themselves and witnessing to and of themselves and so obtruding things upon men not by and in the light and evidence of the spirit in and according to the Scriptures as the true Apostles use to do but upon their own authority and the authority of their sayings and witnessings which therefore they say also are of equal authority with c. Better than the saying of the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures as appeares by George Whiteheads answers to the Cambridge Queries To this purpose is their saying in their Title Page that what they have written and made manifest in their Book is they say by the Truth they say not which is in Christ or in the Gospel of Christ but which is in George Whitehead John Whitehead George Fox the younger to which three witnesses in their own names We oppose the three in Heaven the Father the Son or Word and the Holy Ghost and the truth that is in and is witnessed by them much of this their way of self-witnessing and obtruding things in their own name word or authority the Reader may see in their Book p. 8. 13. 18. 20 21 22 23. 26. In which they are such as the false Christs and the false Prophets of whom our Lord said to the Jews if another come in his own name him ye will receive John 5. 43. And like the Idol worshippers and preachers of whom the Lord says by the Prophet Isaiah that they were their own witnesses Isa 44. 9. And though they say the Lord saith yet they do therein as the false prophets affirming the Name of the Lord to their own words dreames fancies or deceits as in Jer. 23. 16. 25 26 27. Ezek. 13. 7. As we might also instance in some they have said of that they were Priests and Hirelings and took Tythes that were never exercised in such away as a certain woman said of Thomas Moor junior at Glentworth in Lincoln-shire and George Fox said in Bury Goal of one Disbrough brother in law to Joseph Hagger being a trads-man in London yet they pretended that they speak by the Revelation of the spirit of them in which their imposture and deceit was made manifest 2. When they do quote Scripture they usually pervert and corrupt it altering leaving out something or adding thereto corrupt and false glosses we may instance some few particulars in their book against us As 1. Alleadged 1 John 5 10. He that believeth hath the witnesse in himself bâ—ing out on the Son of God without which it is not true for the Devils believe yet have not the witnesse spoken of in 1 John 5. in themselves Jam. 2. 19. 2. They alleadge 1 John 4. 17. as he is so are we in this World to prove that they are without sin here as well or much as Christ is though its evident that contradicts the Apostle himself who says 1 John 1. 8. If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves touching which quotation because they make some specious use of it to deceive the simple We shall note some things here further about it for the help of the weak let the Reader mind then that 1. He saith not as he was besore the World was so are we in this World for so he was glorified with the Fathers own self equal to God and in his forme the same with
know that none such are allowed by the profest Church in England called Protestants for many years Or 3. A Heathen Priest appointed to offer bodily and bloody sacrifices to some Idol or false God if they use it in such a sence they then not onely reproach and lie against John Horn and the other but also intimately blaspheme against God and Jesus Christ the Lord as if he was but an Heathen Idol or false God for to none other doth John Horn perform any Act of Divine Worship It s probable they mean it in this sence for so one of their society at Whithesee called one that reads the Scripture in the Congregation Priest and when intreated to forbear be-because the Scriptures read are the Words of God and discover Christ the Lord and prayers were directed to God in his Name and the Gospel by one also was then Preached and Christ is the true Lord and not Baal he grew more fierce at that and called Mattan Mattan Mattan meaning Mattan the Priest of Baal 2 Kings 11. 18. By which thou mayest see Reader what reproachers they be of Christ and the Christian Religion in any of these bad sences if they use this tearm Priest of J. H. they are not onely revilers but notorions lyars Or 4. If they use it as prophane men in contempt of the Ministers that know not else what sence the word Priest hath save onely they judge it reproachful then have they at best joyned therein with the false prophane scoffers Ishmaelites and evil men And so it appeares however that they were not led by the Spirit of Truth which leads none to be revilers so that had they called their writing their own witnesse and not the witnesser of the truth in them which indeed is not to them 1 John 1. 8. 10. they had done yet lesse evilly then they have in putting their falshoods and reproaches upon the Truth 3. But besides these their Book is full of reproaches elsewhere as that we accuse the Saints and brethren pag. 3. Are in confusion and are wise men of Babylon pag. 5. and 7. Rail against the Innocent pag. 5. plead for sin pag 6. Say that we like fools whom the Apostles reproved would not be satisfied with their Answer pag 10. That the Body of Christ which is Spiritual is not discerned by us whose minds are out of his spirit pag. 8. that we establish a blinde and dead Faith pag. 15. Are blind guides pag. 16. 18. that we know not naturally pag. 13. That they might have received as good an answer from School Boys pag. 16. Call us dreamers and this say they is a dreame and one of John Horns divinations pag. 17. Call us Hypocrites and power out a great deal of abusive and reproachful Language against us for owning our selves as part of the Nation that have neglected Christ and long abused the Truth pag. 22 23. c. Yea their latter part is full of abusive reproaches and revilings as well as their inward parts full of deceit and naughtinesse not like the good Apostles that brought not railing accusations though against the Deail but like the Apostles and false Teachers whose mouths are full of cursing and bitternesse 7. To name no more They carry on their own work by proud boastings and speaking high swelling words of vanity vaunting of themselves and in that also walk in the steps of the false Apostles and false Teachers who were proud boasters Fierce Heady High-minded dispisers of them that are good c. And like the Old Pharisees that justified and lifted up themselves as Righteous and dispised others Luke 18. 10 11 12. 2 Cor. 5. 12. and 11 12 13 14. 18. 2 Tim. 3. 2 3. 2 Pet. 2. 1. 10 11 12. 18 19. Judges 13. What boasters of themselves they be may appear by those passages and the like As for the Quakers dying because of which they would accuse them with being sinners here their darknesse speaking of us appeares as if the Quakers might not be thought to be sinners Again we say they of themselves shall be a heavier judgement unto you for we are a burthensomâ— stone to all the ungodly and the more ye strive against us the greater will be your torment Cease striving against the Truth of God and us his People for the more ye strive against us and the Truth we live in and are witnesses of which Truth is Christ who is also in us c. And a little after the Mighty Powerful presence of the Lord doth accompany us whereby we reach the faithfull witnesse of God in the People which answereth to the Truth of God declared by us pag. 23. The contrary to which notwithstanding these great swelling words appeared in George Whitehead in his discourse with J. H. at Lin since the foresaid vapour he being mightily baffleled as the Audience then present can witnesse So they boast themselves of their Teaching freely and not being greedy of filthy Lucre but doing what they do out of a willing mind c. This say they is owned and practised by us the servants of the Lord called Quakers c. Pag. 28. And so did the false Apostles it seems by what the Apostle writes of them 2 Cor. 11. 12. They use to boast of their free Preaching of their corrupt Doctrine too though it cost them that receive it too dear how cheap and free so ever it appeared Yea the whole latter part of their Book is little but reproaches of us and boasting of themselves Such their Doctrines and such the way of their managing them judge Reader of them both impartially and of the further discovery of them in the ensuing reply From which we shall no longer detain thee Read seriously and pray heartily to God for manifesting his Truth to thee and guiding thee into it and keeping thee from errours to him committing thee we rest March the 27th 1660. Thy helpers in the Faith and Truth of Christ JOHN HORN Sen. Juni THOMAS MOORE A FULLER DISCOVERY Of the Dangerous Principles and Lying spirit of the PEOPLE Called Quakers Made manifest in George Whitehead John Whitehead and George Fox the Younger in their Book against John Horne and Tho. Moore of Lin. HOw grossely Ignorant miserably Erroneous and Impudently wicked the Quakers be all may perceive that are of ability to judge and discern indifferently between us and them in what hath bin published by either of us yet for the sakes of those that are not able to discern by a bare reading of what they have writ or will not be at the paines to compare us impartially We have herein further noted their Ignorance Errour Confusion Hypocrisie and Deceit to their hands in which they that will but compare us may see our integrity in our dealing with them However we shall desire to Approve our selves to God therein and make manifest their deceits and falshood so as all that will may discern them 1. They lay down ten Principles in their
Epistle to the Reader as ours in which they shew their ignorance and deceit they be thus T. Moor say they affirmed That sin is a natural heritage in the beleevers while they be here To which T. Moor saith Ans This is falsly expressed his sayings were That sin is in the beleever as a natural heritage from Adam while he is in this mortal body And in noting this as erroneous they intimately deny the natural uncleanness of man by sin entring into the world by one mans sin and so that all have sinned in him and are fallen short of the glory of God in and unto which they were created Or else with the Papists imagine that its taken away by Baptism or Regeneration so as no more to be in men here But note that T. M. says its in them as a natural heritage from the first natural root fallen Adam in which is implied a distinction between what is the beleevers by nature as a son of the first Adam a man and what is his by grace as in Christ the second Adam and the Apostle tells us That by one man sin entred into the world and death by sin and that it abides in the beleever after beleeving is plain in that Paul says sin dwelt in him even then when he says it was not he that did sin but sin in him Rom. 7. 17 20. For I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing there his natural heritage In which also he implies that in his Spirit was that that is good dwelling as also he after says vers 22. and that sin abides not in the beleever till death we find no Scripture saith but the contrary That no man living shall be justified in the sight of God if he enter into judgement with him Psal 143. 2. If no man living but by Gods not entring into judgment with him then no man living here is without sin for if there were though God did enter into judgement with him he should be justified for God certainly cannot in judgment or will not condemn him in whom is no sin so that their ignorance and error herein appears in accusing T. M. of Error herein 2. T. M. say they affirmed that their nature is restored in Christ speaking of their own nature and that their nature is a filthy nature and Christ took upon him their nature Ans This also is falsly expressed and perverted for his sayings were to this effect That the nature or kind of man is perfectly redeemed and restored in one for all even in Christ the second Adam while yet sin is in and death upon the Individuals or particular persons of men for whom such Redemption is obtained in and by Jesus Christ Yea even the beleevers body is yet vile while not changed by death and they all waiting for the redemption of the body but here they confound things together and deal deceitfully they might as well have taxed the Apostle of confusion for saying men by nature do the things contained in the Law Rom. 2. 14. and yet by nature are children of wrath Eph. 2. 3. The word Nature signifies diversly when we say our nature is restored in Christ we speak of the nature or kind of man as it is distinguished from the nature or kind of Angels and other creatures which whole nature by reason of sin committed by it in Adam was fallen under wrath and curse but being assumed by Christ who was made flesh and man and not in the nature or kind of Angels he hath redeemed it even mans nature or being which is ours too inasmuch as we are men and restored it to favour and fellowship with God in himself and yet we say our nature kind or being as in us not in Christ for the same common nature kind or being of man is in every man though in divers persons diversly is corrupt and filthy in it self by reason of sin in it Isai 64. 6. and death upon us further then purified and purged by him yet Christ took upon him our nature as before not as it is filthy in us by sin in it but as it was under bondage to death and ourse without filth in him he being sanctified in his conception so as to be the Holy One even in his Birth Luke 1. 35. whereas others are conceived in sin and shapen in iniquity Psal 51. 5. so that there is neither error nor confusion in what is said by T. M. hereabout but they have mis-related his sayings and therefore tax them because they agree not with their Errors concerning mans natural sinfulness called Original sin and the humanity of Christ denied by them 3. John Horn they say holds that they that had no guile in them had sin in them that every sin is not guile Answ T is well they dared not to put in David with him as holding the same error for he says that man is blessed whose sins are covered and to whom the Lord will not impute sin and in whose spirit there is no guile so then it seems some men in whose spirit is no guile have sins in them though covered and not imputed to them there needs no cover for what is not yet John Horn did not say that every one that had no guile in him had sin in him for he excepts Jesus Christ who neither did sin nor had guile in him not that Principle then but the contradiction of it is the Error 4. T. M. say they affirmed That the blood of Christ shed is not in his person in heaven but the vertue of it To which T. M. saith Ans That herein also they have altered and falsified his sayings which in Answer to their Question where the blood of Christ is was to this effect That the material blood was shed and the vertue or preciousness thereof or of his bloodshedding is now with the Father in the person of Christ in Heaven forasmuch as by means and for the worth thereof he is raised from the dead and entred into heaven it self there to appear in the presence of God for us having by it obtained life from the dead even eternal life and redemption for us Mind also Reader that they say p. 15. that they blame us not nor did blame us for not asserting that the bloodshed is in the body of Christ Why then note they this as a dangerous principle had T. M. so said 5. T. M. say they affirmed That the blood of Christ shed is the foundation of their faith but where it is they answered not nor could they tell Ans The forementioned Answer to their Question was first often given and urged else what meant their reply to it to this effect That the vertue of a thing cannot be separated from the thing it self that it may be where the thing it self is not in a present reall sensible existence or being the contrary to which was then proved as is shewed in the Book they pretend to answer And further T.
that believing is which closing with that Object of faith is therefore called faith and not else 1. The Object of faith is the same that was preached by the Apostles for the obedience of faith or to the faith Gal. 1. 23. Rom. 1 3 4 5. and 16. 25 26. The most holy faith in believing to be built up in Jude 20 The precious faith of Gods elect Tit. 1 1 2 Pet. 1 2. Which object though one yet is three ways considerable 1. In respect of the most inmost and absolute Object the further and full stay of the soul and that is God Almighty the divine essence of God in Christ as evidenced by the holy Ghost in his infinite power love mercy truth c. And so God is called the trust of his people Psal 40. 4 and 17 3 5. 2. The most inmost and absolute medium which the believer discerns comes to and fastens on God and that is Jesus Christ the son of God become man the Saviour of the world c. Rom. 1 2 3 4 5. John 4. 42. 1 John 4. 14. And this as he is set forth in Scripture John 7. 37 38. Rom. 16. 26. Both in respect of what he hath done in his incarnation death resurrection sacrifice by which he made peace obtained redemption compleated righteousness and received spirit in the man and for men and what by vertue of all this he is doing in his mediation between God man and appearing in the heavens before God interceeding for transgressors and advocating and mediateing in speciall manner for believers affording and continuing means and sending forth spirit to the rebellious that the Lord God might dwell amongst them and to believers to lead them into all truth and what by reason and vertue of all said he is even the propitiation for sins wisdom righteousness holiness and redemption the Saviour of sinners the head of believers the fountain of life the Lord and Judge of all And what he hath assured in his 〈…〉 confirmed by his blood that he will do in his visible and glorious 〈…〉 the dead and causing all his peculiar to appear in glory with him and bring 〈…〉 before his judgements seate to acknowledge him and receive 〈…〉 1 Tim. 2 4 5 6. Tit. 1. 1. 2 3. and 2. 11. -14 and 3 -4. 7. And thus is Jesus Christ both the Object of faith and living and enlivening medium by which any comes to God and believe in God Heb. 7. 25. 1 Pet. 1. 21. 3 The instrumentall and outward Object or medium through which God in Christ and his well pleasedness in him and the things above mentioned are declared and according to which he is to be beheld believed and trusted in which is the faith the Apostles preached and wrote to be obeyed in believing and this is the word and Gospel of God and Christ as testified and recorded by the spiration and inspiration of the Holy Ghost in the holy Scriptures John 5. 39. and because so reported it is called his name Psal 138. 2. and believing him is in believing his Gospel Mark 1. 15. Joh. 2. 22. and 5. 47. and begins in glorifying his word Acts 13. 38. and so right believing on him is believing on him as the Scripture hath said John 7. 37. and according to his word and so trusting him in his word Pal. 56. 3 4. 10 11. and so to us-ward this is the first and outward Object and medium nigh to us discovering God and Christ that we may trust rightly in him the next which through this is come to the inmost living mediate Object discovered in that word and through that word believed in is Jesus Christ as aforesaid and so through Christ the last and most inmost and absolute Object is God in Christ 1 Tim. 4 10. Rom. 4. 24. and so the Object of faith is one that is God in Christ as discovered by his Spirit in the Gospel and this is the faith of which these opposers discover themselves by their own words to be void and of no judgement as after also may more appear 2. As for that believing which closeth with this Object of faith and is therefore called faith it is in holy Scripture shewen to have these three things in it together in one 1. A right discerning judgement and perswasion of God in Christ according to the discovery of himself in this word and testimony and begotten by this word and testimony Joh. 5. 39. 44. 47. and 7. 37. 2 Thes 1. 10. Rev. 19. 10 Heb. 11. 13. 2. From and with this an hearty imbracement of this discerned and from thence an unfeined believing and trusting in God for all the grace and glory in Christ promised Heb. 11. 13. Rom. 4. 18 -25 and 5. 8 9 10. 2 Tim. 4. 18. 3. Thirdly a yielding up the heart and powers to be saved and framed in affections choise and endeavours of service by the teachings allurements and operation of this grace believed Isa 45. 22. 2 Cor. 5. 20. Cant. 1. 3 4. and 2. 4 5 6. Phil. 3. 3 7 8 9. 1 Pet. 1. 5 6. 8. Rom. 6. 17. Tit. 2. 11 -14 Heb. 11. 13. And in these three meeting in one is that believing that closing with and receiving this Object of faith that is rightly called faith which had these opposers known they would not have avouched it an errour to say that Jesus Christ the Lord from Heaven the quickning Spirit dwelleth in believers by faith for by faith the Object discovered and believing or faith in the heart begot there they receive his word or testimony into their hearts Jam. 1. 18. 2 Cor. 3. 3. and where this word abideth in the heart there and so is Christ John 15. 4. 7. 1 John 2 24. and 5. 10. and 2. 9. And here through the Holy Ghost discovering Christ and the things of Christ the vertues of his death resurrection fulness sacrifice and by his divine light breathing and power glorifying him to their hearts John 15. 26 27. and 16. 13 14 15. 1 Pet. 1. 20. Rom. 4. 25. draweth them more on Christ 1 Pet. 2. 5. From whom they receive and believing have in them remission of sins Acts 10. 43. Col. 2. 13. Justification and peace with God in Christ access to God in that grace and hope of glory Rom. 5 1 2. 8 9 10 11. 1 Cor. 6. 11. And as these are by the word and spirit witnessed in them and received by them so and thereby is Christ in them 1 John 5. 10. 20. Col. 1. 27. And by the word and Spirit in it with these riches received is effected in them an inner man a new heart new Spirit the mind and disposition of Christ Ephes 4. 20 -24 Col. 3. 10 11. Rom. 8. 14 15. 1 Cor. 2. 16. 2 Cor. 3. 3. 17 18. And as this Spirit and mind and faith and love is in them so and therein is Christ and God in Christ in them ◠John 3. 24. and 4. 13. 16. And from this
that he should even so come again in like manner as they had seen him go up into Heaven for that was in a body with flesh and bones in it and was visible to the eye till a cloud received him out from their sight and that this you deny appears in what you have said before of the Church being his body onely and by what follows viz. That as he who is the Word became flesh so when the days of his flesh were finished he was translated into his own glory which he had with his Father from eternity and so the second Adam is a quickning Spirit for in those words you imply that his flesh or the substance of his body in which he bare our sins is ceased and so that his humanity or what he took of the Virgin and of the seed of David after the flesh is gone so as he is onely a Spirit without any human body but how then did the Apostle oppose Christ in his ascending into Heaven unto David Acts 2. 34 45. For by that David ascended as much as Christ for his Spirit went to God when his body went to the dust Eccles 12. 7. And it seems by your sayings Christs body is not ascended but by the Apostles saying Christ is opposed to David in ascending in what he David ascended not whose body he says is the sepulchre therefore it follows that the body of Christ is ascended and is taken up into glory and is called the glorious body of Christ to which the believers body is to be conformed and changed into its likeness not into the Churches likeness sure which as yet is much of it in a suffering state and not a glorious body yea the Apostle tells us that of the fruit of Davids loines according to the flesh Christ is raised up to sit upon his throne Acts 2. 30. Is he the man Jesus the Mediator of God and us the propitiation for our sins as a Spirit merely Or is he the man Christ as he is God in us or a Spirit in Union with his Church And is so as he the propitiation for our sins then he bare his own sins in his body and is the propitiation for himself seeing the Church is he or part of him his body that was offered up for us It 's true the second Adam was made a quickning Spirit yet abides a man and hath a glorious body dictinct from his Church to which our body is to be conformed even as Adam was a living soul yet had a natural body W. and F. To your question you aske us viz. Whether we believe that body the saints upon earth do discern and which the world cannot discern is a body of flesh and bones yea or nay We answer it 's the body that was broken for us and is to be fed upon by us as is plain in 1 Cor. 11. 24. 29. not discerning the Lords body it 's that that is remembred and communicated with in the supper of the Lord which ordinance you have denied in your queries to us and that body was the same that Christ shewed to have flesh and bones in it and in which he went up into Heaven as before think you the Church was given and broken for us and is the breaking of the Church that which we are to have communion with and remember as the matter of our seeding in that Ordinance Though the body mysticall of Christ his Church is also to be discerned by the believers and is not by the world but if the Church be the body discerned which in the supper we have the communion of and which was broken for us then the flesh of Christ which we eat is something of the Church the flesh and substance of the Church and so the Church is to eate itself what confused stuff is this that is insinuated by you to us But by the reason you give off your propounding that question viz. seeing we own the believers or Church to be the body of Christ and plead for another body of Christ distinct from them it 's plain without contradiction that you deny the personall body of Christ to be and abide in the Heavens and to deny the man Jesus to be the Object of the believers faith and why shamed you to speak out this so broadly at the dispute Was you then more bashfull and are since grown more audacious and impudent W. and F. They say It 's grosse confusion to say that believers are Members of Christs flesh and bones and then to say they are not flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone as if Christ had two bodies of flesh and bone one of which the saints are not Members when the Apostle says as much as they were flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone in saying no man ever hated his own flesh but nourisheth it and cherisheth it even as the Lord the Church for we are Members of his body of his flesh and of his bones Ephes 3 30. Rep. Surely the grosse confusion is clearly in themselves here as is easie to demonstrate 1. They bely us in saying of us that we said what we said not viz. That believers are Members of Christs flesh and bones we said the Apostles preached that the believers are Members of his body of his flesh and of his bones neither the Greek nor the Latine as G. W. At least as to the Latine may know will bear that construction Members of his flesh and bones but Members of his body of that is out of his flesh and of or out of his bones ex carne ejus ex ossibus ejus 2. Is his Church flesh and bones said they not above that a body of flesh and bones cannot be said to be in the Heavens but if believers be a body of flesh and bones as they are if they be flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones must they not needs be then a body of flesh and bones in Heaven seeing they grant his body to be in the heavens yea to be the fulness of God that filleth all in all both in Heaven and earth is flesh and bones the fulness of God filling all in all both in Heaven and earth 'T is true that the Church consists of Members that each of them have personall heads and bodies of flesh and bones as men but are they flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone Is our flesh of Christs flesh and our bone of Christs bone How then hath not Christ flesh and bone of his own distinct from the body his Church if our flesh be flesh of his flesh and our bone be bone of his bone Doth not that phrase speak plainly of flesh and bones of his distinct from the Church which they say too is flesh and bone is not the confusion then in these men that deny Christ to have a body of flesh and bones distinct from his Church and then to say his Church is flesh of his flesh and bone of
partaker for a time that he might die for us That through Death he might destroy him that had the power of Death c. 3. To their parenchesis or a humane body we further say Doth the Light in them tell them that carnal and a body of Flesh and Bones and a humane body is alwayes one and the same Let us see if it be not darknesse Humane is alwayes used for the Nature or kind of man as Gods Creature as distinguished from other kinds of Creatures And so a humane body is the body of a man one that is verily a man whether sinful and mortal or not so either the one or the other And so the Body of Adam in his Innocency was humane the body of a man he was verily man yet sinless and so not subject to or in a state of Death though capable of becoming Immortal or mortal but when by sinning he fell from God then he became sinfult and mortal And such are all that by natural propagation come from him as of and from him while in this body not changed by Death yet still humane the nature or kinde remains though degenerated and corrupt God made man upright and t is man still that hath sought out inventions and is become carnal sold under sin Ecles 7. 21. with Gen. 5. 1. 2. and Chap. 8. 21. But the second Adam our Lord Jesus Christ is not a carnal but Spiritual man even from the first of his being made man for though his Body prepared for and taken by him when the word was made flesh was humane of mankinde and so he was a very man Yet he came not by propagation from Adam but though made of a woman of the seed of Abraham and so of Adam of whom Abraham was yet it was in a supernatural way a work of new Creation by the operation of the holy Ghost in the womb of a Virgin that had not known man and was holy being anointed of God with the Holy Ghost and power even in and from his conception and Birth And so that holy thing even before born of her and when born and alwayes without sin yet not Immortal but for a time partakers of Flesh and Blood as the Natural Children of Adam and because therein he was made subject to our infirmities that came on us naturally or as a natural heritage from Adam by reason of sin yet without sin he was said to be made in the likeness of sinful Flesh and his body might be said in some sence to be made a natural body as being partakers with us of Flesh and Blood and so mortal though not in every sence or in a full sence as the naturall Children of Adam are Yet to esteem him sinful Flesh or his body a carnal Body even then when he was on Earth partakers of Flesh and Blood and suffered in the Flesh we account blasphemie much more to esteem his raised and Glorified body in Heaven a carnal body For in his Resurrection form the dead all that weakness and mortality of the Flesh that came on the Nature of man by the first Adams sin and fall which he for a time was subject to in being partakers with us of Flesh Blood it was put off from him that he should no more return to it And so his body is become in a full and Glorious sence Spiritual Gloriously filled with the Spirit of Life and Power yea Immortal a Glorious body he being therein glorified with the Fathers own self and all by vertue of that his once suffering for our sins in the Fâ—esh in which he shed his blood and therein powered out his Soul unto Death laying down his Natural Mortal and Adam-like Life in the Flesh that he might take it again in the Spirit and Glory of the Father by which he was quickened raised from the dead now no more to return to corruption Yet still this raised and Glorious body is humane the body of a man even the man Christ Jesus having Flesh and bones hands and feet which by way of distinction from others and eminency above them is called his flâ—sh and his bones And had these men believed either the great Mystery as now revealed that God was manifested in the flesh in the words being made flesh and dwelling amongst men or the Resurrection of the body of Christ that dyed they would neither have cavelled at the denying his body to be carnal as if it could not stand with the acknowledgement of this man continuing for ever nor have spoken so contemptuously of the Glorious body of Christ And so neither would they have added this following query Is not a fleshly body Carnal To which we further Answer 1. Fleshly and carnal do not alwayes signify the same thing in Scripture for we read of a heart of flesh and fleshly Tables of the Heart Ezek. 36. 26. 2 Cor. 3. 3. whereby fleshly cannot be meant carnal but tender and fit to receive his impression or writing as opposed to a stony hard or carnal heart And though sometimes such expressions as to be flesh or fleshly named after it may be used to signify the weakness and brittleness of the outward man or a helpless withering worthlesse and decaying state which may stand with carnality in Scripture sence though distinct from it because all flesh in its present state is as Grass and the goodlinesse thereof as the flower of the Field fading and withering but the word of the Lord that was made flesh who is the spiritual and heavenly man and he abides for ever Yea though also sometimes a fleshly Mind and fleshly Lusts are equivalent with carnal mindedness and lusts as Rom. 8. 5. to 8. Col. 2. 18. 1 Pet. 2. 11 Yet 2. To have flesh and to be fleshly or named after it is two things whether we take flesh as signifying the outward man or body of man that hath flesh and bones and that whether as natural from Adam or as raised from the dead for there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body and both have flesh though not of or in the same quality or if we take flesh as Signifying the natural Sinfulness or carnal mind as the word is used for both yet to have flesh in either sence and to be fleshly or named after the flesh are not the same nor alwayes meeting in the same person The Apostles did live and walk in the flesh or natural body yet did not war after the flesh nor was fleshly or carnal in their knowings speakings or actings 2 Cor. 10. 3 4. with chap. 1 12 13 and 5. 16. Gal 2 20. with Phil. 1 2â— 24. and yet also they had flesh in the last sence even natural sinfulnesse and carnality still dwelling in them in their flesh members or outward man as from Adam though they were not reckoned after it nor did walk in or after it but did mind and walk in and after the spirit and so were not carnal but Spiritual
crucified nailed to the Cross and pierced with a Spear as himself then did expresly demonstrate to Thomas see vers 27. This revealed we believe to be true because spoken by the Truth of God that cannot lie But where or how he came in further then revealed in his Testimony already given we desire not to be wise in knowing or carnal in seeking sensually to immagine for secret things belong to the Lord our God but things revealed unto us c. Deut. 29. 29. To the last we say None of us have said as is related nor matters it what hath been said concerning some of our way that 's not the onely falshood that hath been forged concerning us by some of their way They might have heard such imaginations and inquisitions reproved by us as too sensual in seeking to bring down the great things in the Revelation of the Mysterie of God manifested in the flesh to the sensual mind or comprehension and favouring of pride and vanity of mind in desiring to be wise above what is written and so we still look upon them and therefore own no such thing But believing the Scriptures and the great power of God and that the Body of the Lord Jesus risen from the dead is Glorified with the Fathers own self we know he could come in where how he pleased whether there was any such way for him or no and needed no passage to be opened or made or for him Yea further also we are assured that even the Children of the first Resurrection when they shall attain to that Resurrection of the dead and have their bodies that now are vile fashioned into the likeness of his Glorious Body they in those very bodies bâ—ing Spiritual Immortal Powerful Incorruptible shall be equal to the Angels who cannot be hindred from passage by any corruptible things as Doors Walls or the like but can make their own passage through any such obstacles more easily then mortal bodies through the air And why should it be thought a thing incredible that the Creator of all things should make mans nature partaker of such Glory It is so onely to the sensual and carnally minded who do therefore err not knowing or believing the Scripture and the great Power of God And that these are such appears by this manner of questioning Do they not secretly imply in this question that such a thing could not be done according to the proper and natural sence and import of the words unless some mortal man can tell where or how And do they not therein signifie that they count the plain sence and cleare import of the Evangelists words to be a lye And that either Christ had not a Body having flesh and bones after his Resurrection as himself said or if he had he could not come into the house and be in the midst of them the doors being shut and so by rendering the expressions of the Holy Ghost such as can have no truth in them in their litteral sence and plain import but are rather a cunningly devised fable they would insinuate a necessity of seeking the truth in some fancied moral or Allegorical interpretations of theirs Besides they intimate pride and high thoughts of themselves for sure they would have us think they are so wise above what is written that they can answer their own Querie what lesse can be thought in their thus propounding it to us But till they have answered the Questions put to Job chap. 38. we will not believe them for we know neither they nor any other mortal man can by searching find out the Almighty to perfection Job 11. 7 8. nor yet find out the Work of God from the beginning to the end Eccles 3. 11. no not the Works of God done under the Sun Ecles 8. 17. He is no true believer on God that will believe no more of his Works then he can tell how where and in what manner they were done and he is foolish and proud that conceives himself able to demonstrate to reason every such thing in every Work of God Quest 11. Whether the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered persecution whose body was subject to hunger and affliction be not made a quickening spirit 1 Cor. 15. 49. and yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his flesh is his meat indeed and his blood is his drink indeed c Answ This Question also may be divided into two parts 1. Whether the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered c. be not made a quickening spirit 2. The following part is in the form of a proposal yet is signified to be part of their question by the interrogatory point it is thus And yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his flesh is his meat indeed c To the first part VVhether the same Christ c. be not made a quickening Spirit We answer Yea he is or rather to use the expression of the Scripture he was so made for he is not now making or to be made so And further we say We truly believe and propofess without hidden things of dishonesty That it is the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered c. Now that was the word made flesh and so Christ of the fruit of Davids Loyns after the flesh who had both Spirit and Body and if he were without either now he could not be the Christ much lesse the same Christ yea the Scripture quoted by them 1 Cor. 15. 45. saith That as it was the first man Adam that was made a living Soul so it is the second Adam that was made a quickening Spirit And therefore as the first Adams being made a living Soul hindred not his having a natural body yea it was the man that was made so so neither doth the second Adams being made a quickening Spirit hinder his having a Spiritual and Glorious Body that yet hath flesh and bones yea it s the man Christ Jesus the second Adam Christ of the fruit of Davids loyns after the flesh that was made both Lord and Christ and so a quickening Spirit It is the same Jesus that suffered so in the same body in which he once not onely suffered but suffered for our sins and bore them on the Tree the just for the unjust c. which also is more then they include in their acknowledgement of his Sufferings it is this Jesus who was both dead and buried whom God hath raised up and made both Lord and Christ They would seem to grant that the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered c. is made a quickening spirit yet privily deny it while they confesse not Jesus to be the same and very Christ that was so made which they do not while they acknowledge him not to be so made in the same body of his flesh in which he once so suffered For the Name Jesus alwayes
signifies Christ as come in the flesh and so takes in that body of his flesh upon the taking whereof that Name was given him as is before noted yea he whom God hath raised from the dead and made both Lord and Christ and so a quickening spirit is said to be Christ of the Seed of David after the flesh Rom. 1. 3 4 with Acts 2. 30. 36. the same that dyed and was buried 1 Cor. 15 3. 4 45. The last Adam as also before is hinted in not confessing which they privily deny what they pretend to grant and their seeming grant is like John VVhiteheads concerning the Resurrection of Christ who at our meeting with him at Gedney pretended to believe that the same Christ that took flesh in a body prepared for him of the Seed of Abraham and David and in that body served and suffered for at a time that the same Christ was raised and glorified with the Fathers own self And yet then would by no means acknowledge though oft intreated and urged to speak plainly to the Question that he was raised and did live again and continue for ever in the same body in which he so served and suffered or that the same body that then once in the last ages suffered and was hung on the Tree was raised again from the dead and is now alive for evermore yea at last he deneyed that the same dead bodies of men that dye in Adam shall be raised and made alive again from the dead that even the same that sleep in the dust of the earth shall come forth of their Graves by Christ and so consequently that Christ is raised for if the dead rise not then is not Christ raised for Jesus Christ was dead and buried as before we have shewed So then their immagination or meaning in this equivocal grant appears to be this That the same Christ that had a body distinct from all other in which in the dayes of his flesh he suffered is now raised ascended and gone out of that body of his flesh into some imaginary spiritual being which in that body of his flesh he could not be made yet that in that his spiritual being he is in the bodies or bodies and souls of divers persons working doing or suffering the same things in them which were typically or as a Pattern suffered and done in that body of his flesh and so they neither confess him already come in the flesh or as having finished that his coming in the flesh or first appearing to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself and so the works the Father gave him to do on the earth in that his once suffering for sin nor do they confesse yea they deny Jesus to be the very Christ who is made a quickening spirit and therefore we have laid down our answer plainly and distinctly that it s not onely the same that had a body and therein once suffered but also that it s he in the same body of his flesh in which he once suffered for sins even the same Jesus whom they crucified slew and hung on a Tree that God hath made the Lord and Christ and so a quickening spirit and have explained and confirmed our answer in the expressions of the Scripture quoted by them that its the last Adam c. of which they take no notice for that fully shews the fulnesse and ungodlinesse of their immagination which therefore we again desire the Reader to mind viz. that that Scripture 1 Cor. 15. 45. speaks of two Adams the first Adam the last Adam so then they were both men and had each the personal body of a man when those things there spoken of were verified in them yea so expresly called vers 47. the first man the second man It was the first man Adam that was made a living Soul and so it is the last Adam the second man that was made a quickening spirit The Lord formed the body of the first Adam of the dust of the earth and then breathed into his nostrils the breath of life Gen. 2. 7. and man became a living Soul the breath of Life did not annihilate the body formed of the dust but enlive and quicken it by possessing it and defusing it self in and through all the parts and members of it so that that breath of Life and the body of the man united the man became a Living Soul it is not said it or the breath of life became so but the man upon Gods breathing in that breath of life he even the first man Adam became a living Soul And had he abode in that uprightnesse and innocency in which he was made he might have lived for ever but as there was then none dead for him to quicken so neither was he fitted for such a work so that when he this first man Adam not keeping his first estate but seeking out inventions sinned and fell from God under the Sentence of and into a state of death and Separation from God and so death passed upon all men and they are all partakers of flesh and blood forasmuch as all have sinned in that offence of one they must all have been shut out and perished for ever in that losse and misery if God had not found out and prepared a second man Adam and made him a quickening Spirit for as by man came death so by man also the abolishing of and resurrection from the dead such was mans condition by reason of sin entered and overspreading the nature and death already passed on him in the Sentence of God that without another man a second Adam in whom Gods Truth might be fulfilled and his Justice satisfied in the punishment of sin death of the sinner and through whose Sufferings by his overcoming death the Righteousnesse of God might appear and shine forth therein we could not have been quickened or made alive Therefore for the recovery of fallen man that he might not be utterly expelled or shut out in the first death and banishment but such Redemption wrought and obtained for him that through the Redeemer he might be saved and that they might be all in due time made alive or raised from the first death to appear before the judgement Seat of their Redeemer therefore God found out and prepared a second Adam and made him a quickening spirit Now this second Adam was even his onely begotten Son the Word that was in the beginning with God and so before the first Adam and he by whom and for whom the first Adam and all things were made that were made the proper Lord and Heir of all things for he onely was able and meet to undertake such a work and to have help laid upon him for us but he was made flesh of a woman and so made man the second Adam in the fulnesse of time once in the end of the World and that by a wonderful work of new Creation by the Grace Gift and Appointment of the Father and by the Operation
of the Holy Ghost as is foreshewed and so was the Lord from Heaven Heavenly even when he was made flesh in that body so prepared for him yet very Man made of the Seed of David after the flesh and therein partaker with us of flesh and blood and so like to natural fallen sinful men from birth to death in all things except sin This second man the last Adam because he so humbled himself in that body prepared for him to that purpose God hath raised from the dead and exalted with his Right hand and Glorified him with his own self in that body in which he bore our sins with the Glory he had with him as his onely begotten Son before the World was and therein actually made him in a full and Glorious sence a quickning Spirit to quicken and raise others as is fore-shew'n So that his being made a quickning Spirit no more Annihilates his risen and Glorified body having flesh and bones from being truly a living Spiritual and personal body then the Breath of Life did Annihilate the first Adams body yea without that body he is not the man Jesus Christ us he is affirmed to be that was so made whereas if he were onely a Spirit without the body of a man the assertion must have been contrariwise thus He that was the last Adam is now the quickening Spirit and not Adam But the Text serves not these mens turn for it saith The first man Adam was made a living Soul the last Adam who is also called the second man ver 47. was made a quickening Spirit Nor was or is there any other man made a quickening Spirit but He in that his own personal body onely the second and last Adam or publick man who being made perfect through sufferings offered up himself once for all through the offering up of which body of Christ we are sanctified Heb. 10. 5. 10. For it pleased the Father that in all things he might have the preheminence that in him all fulnesse should dwell even the fulnesse of the God-head bodily Col. â— 1â— 19. and 2. 9. T is of his fulnesse that his members receive and that of this measure which they here receive from him they have it in earthen vessels and though by what they receive from him and are made in him their spirit is made alive for Righteousnesse sake yet the body is still dead because of sin and so vile while in this Mortal state that is while not changed in the natural bodily Death that in the Resurrection it may be fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious body John 1. 14. 16. 18. 2 Cor. 4. 7. Rom. 8. 10. 2 Col. 3. 3 4. Phil. 3. 2. The second part further shews their Ignorance and being void of judgement in the things about which they query as also their sensualnesse not having the Spirit 1. Their Ignorance and being void of Judgement appeares in their saying and yet c. Or notwithstanding that he is made a quickening Spirit yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his flesh is his meat indeed c. In this saying and yet they imply that his being made a quickening Spirit renders it more difficult to understand that his flesh should be meat indeed and his blood drink indeed whereas our Saviour when he had affirmed his flesh to be meat indeed and his blood to be drink indeed and some thought it a hard or difficult saying John 6. 55. 60 c That he might demonstrate and make it more easie to their understandings he saith what and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up where he was before It is the Spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are Life in all which he signifies as is more fully opened by the Apostles after his having finished the works the Father gave him to do on the Earth that even the flesh of Christ as in its mortal state and so all his abasement and sufferings for us in the flesh could not have profited us and so not have been bread of life for us if he in the same body of his flesh the Son of Man had not risen from the dead ascended and offered up himself to his Father in and by the Power of the Eternal Spirit according to that 1 Cor. 15. If Christ had not risen from the dead even Jesus Christ of the seed of David after the flesh that was dead and buried we had been yet in our sins and the Preaching of him and Faith in him had been vain But he being in due time by means of his once suffering in the flesh for sins quickened raised from the dead and Glorified by the Power of the Eternall Spirit and so made a quickening Spirit He therefore in that body of his flesh which saw no corruption and so his once suffering in the flesh for sin by means of which he was so Glorified is spiritual meat indeed the Bread of Life and was vertually so before but is now fully made so for us and also manifested so to us by that Spirit that raised him from the dead breathing in and present with the Preaching of his Crosse in which Preaching the preciousnesse of his Crosse is commended in this that he that suffered is raised and Glorified in the same body and now appearing in the presence of God for us by vertue of which it is made in the Preaching of it Bread of Life indeed and so his words declaring him that once suffered in the flesh to be so raised and glorified as aforesaid are Spirit and life as also Rom. 10. 9. These men therefore are of no Judgement concerning the Faith forasmuch as that which our Saviour gives as the Reason why his flesh is meat indeed and his Blood drink indeed namely that God would give him Glory as the fruit of it they imply at least as a thing rendering it more hard to be understood yea secretly they imply it as a reason against the understanding Christs flesh and Christs blood that is meat indeed and drink indeed according to the plain import of his words And so in this implication they signifie not onely as we have noted of them upon the first part of this question that in his being made a quickning Spirit they fancy a nullifying of the real being of that Body of his flesh in which they grant he once suffered but also that by his flesh and his blood which is meat and drink indeed they mean not that flesh once given for the life of the World nor that blood once shed for the Remission of sins or his once suffering in the flesh to the sheding of his blood as also more plainly appears in their next question 2. Their sensuality not having the Spirit appeares at least if we consider their sence of its being nigh in their saying that the flesh and blood of Christ is so nigh to
and grew in body and waxed strong in Spirit fil'd with Wisdom and the Grace of God was upon him Mat. 2. 13. to the end Luke 2. 39 40 c. And when in that body of his he was twelve years old going up with his parents to Jerusalem when they returned he tarried behind them Which he could not have done if personally or essentially in them as in that his own body and after seeking him three dayes with sorrow at last they found him not in themselves or in other persons but in the Temple sitting in the midst of the Doctors and he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was subject to them which was part of his abasement and service and his mother hid or kept not his body within her womb any more after born of her but his sayings in her heart And after John the son of Zachary and Elizabeth his messenger had been preparing his way Baptizing and Preaching the Baptisme of Repentance he himself came the Text saith not into but unto John to be baptized of him And when he was Baptized the Heavens were opened unto him and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a Dove and lighting upon him and lo a voice from Heaven saying not of John but of Jesus This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased a like voice after in his transiguration before three of his Disciples they heard from Heaven not speaking of them but of him whence they said that he not they received from God the Father Honour and Glory when there came such a voice to him from the Excellent Glory 2 Pet. 1. 17 18. with Mat. 17. 1. 5. And so John his fore-runner having both seen and heard professed not himself but this Jesus to be the Christ and pointed to him not as in himself or as in other men but as a distinct person standing not in every of them but among them the beholders though they knew him not and proclaimed him to be and called men to behold him as such the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the World John 1. 19. 36. and 3. 26. 36. After this the same Jesus of Nazareth manifested himself and walked up and down more openly and generally among the Jewes Preaching the Gospel and doing good calling and choosing Disciples and was approved of God amongst Friends and Enemies by miracles and signes which God wrought by him in the midst of them such as none before him ever did nor after any like works but in his Name but he was hated of the Sadduces that denied the Resurrection of the dead of the Pharisees that trusted in themselves that they were Righteous and by their means of the chief of the People and of many of the inferiour also At last they arreigned and falsly condemned him and delivered him to Pilate and so to the Gentiles to be Crucified and he was by them hung upon the Tree and Crucified and when dead was buried by two Honourable persons not in themselves but in a new Sepulchre which was sealed and watched by Souldiers that he might not be stolen away unto all which the Father delivered him and he gave himself for our sins But he in the same body that was dead and buried even Jesus of Nazareth rose again the third day and was witnessed by Angels to be risen and not to be there in the grave the emptinesse of which place the orderly lying of the cloathes witnessing the same And then he appearing to his Disciples shewed himself alive in that very Body having the very same flesh and bones hands and feet though now in another quality viz. Spiritual Immortal in which they had foreseen him Mortal then he acquainted them with the ends necessity of his Death and Resurrection and shewed opened to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself opening their understandings that they might understand the Scriptures gave them the Gospel which he had received from his Father Commission with commandment to Preach it make it known out of the Scriptures of the Prophets to all Nations for the obedience of Faith and having prayed for their Sanctification fitnesse to that service and for blessing on all that after should believe through their word he also promised his Spiritual presence with them in that Ministration to the end of the World After which while he blessed them and while they beheld he was parted from them in that body of his and ascended and was received up into Heaven and according to his promise did soon after send down and powre out upon them the Holy Ghost to furnish and enable them to their Ministry And so he hath already come in the flesh and perfected all that he was to do in his own body in his first coming as all that read and believe the record God hath given of his Son and caused to be written for our instruction may plainly and more fully discern Nor was this coming of his ever so seen nor but by Faith of any before those times no though it hath been desired by many of them Mat. 13. 16 17. Luk. 10. 23 24. But by Faith they saw it and rejoyced John 8. 56. with Heb. 11. 1. 12. Nor yet hath it ever been so seen of any since the Apostles so saw it and him 1 Cor. 15. 5. 8. and Chap. 9. 1. with Chap 4. 9. 1 Pet. 1. 8. Nor will he ever come in that manner to suffer and do over those things again so to be seen John 16. 10. Rom. 6. 9 10. Acts 13. 34. But these things are written concerning him even this Jesus that we may believe that he is the Son of God the Lords Christ and that believing we may have life through his Name John 20. 31. And so our sight is onely in believing by Faith as Heb. 11. 1. 3 Yea they are pronounced blessed that having not seen him so as the Apostles did yet have believed John 20. 29. In which believing to understand and know him to have come in the flesh and to have done and to be that for us as the Testimony recorded declareth is to know him not after the flesh or carnal and sensual mind but after the Spirit according to the Testimony he hath already given of him and in his Light and Power shining and working in and with that Testimony by which onely these things now not so seen as before are made evident plain and powerfully nigh that they might be believed with the heart and confessed with the mouth and still made further precious to and effectual on them that believe 2 Cor. 5. 14 15 16 17. c. Rom. 1. 16 17. and 10. 6. 9 10. And whosoever now boast of having otherwise seen his first coming his appearance and Manifestation in the flesh is a lyar Yea neither is this Jesus who is the very Christ now in that his own personal body in the World we have him not
have every one his own body in the Resurrection and whether are they Natural or Spiritual Answ Having fought against the being of the Glorious body of Christ and the Excellency of his works done or doing in that body which they privily deny to be so also against the truth of his coming again as before They now proceed to fight against the Faith and hope of the Resurrection of the dead which the Apostle affirmeth and largely proveth shall be by Jesus Christ 1 Cor. 15. Calling it all along the Resurrection of the dead yea when he speaks of it as denyed by some among them he saith not simply how say some among you there is no Resurrection but how do they say there is no Resurrection of the dead It seemes they did or might acknowledge a Resurrection so called by them such as might be made and passe upon them in this day but the Resurrection of the dead they denied vers 12. 16. 20 21. 32. 35. 42. And it s not the Spirit or Soul of the man distinct that dies in the death spoken of or ceases to be in a sencible being much less the new man or mind and Spirit of Christ received by and in the believer but it s the natural body that dies and being dead is sown in the Earth which is that of which these would insinuate by these queries that there is no Resurrection after the natural or bodily death And to that purpose here signifie this as their notion that the seeds that must have in the Resurrection every one his own body are not natural but Spiritual For further answer therefore to their Query and for evincing the Doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead and manifesting the folly of their subtilty in this question and the following we say 1. This question is foolish and unlearned for no Scripture speaks of seeds that must have every one their own body in the Resurrection But the Apostle tells us of seeds that men sow expresly of Wheat or other Grain to which God gives a body as pleases him and to every seed it s own body and they are natural seeds Again they wrest the Metaphor and Comparison confounding it with the thing to be set forth by it not regarding or being willingly Ignorant that Metaphors and Comparisons hold not in every thing but in such things onely as serve to set forth in some resemblance the thing for which they are used and it s no wrong to answer them in this query according to their folly as 1 Cor. 15. 36. c. Thou fool that which thou sowest mark thou sowest as differing it from bodies sown by God in his changing them by Death is not quickened except it die nor saith he that the same it or seed is not quickened after it dies but it is not quickened before or except it die And that which thou sowest thou he saith not God but still proceeding in the Metaphor Thou sowest not that body that shall be but bare grain it may chance of wheat or of some other grain these and such are the seeds spoken of of which he saith but God he saith not thou giveth it a body as it pleaseth him and to every seed his own body so then t is the same it which men sowe a bare grain to which God giveth a body for Glory Beauty and Fruitfulnesse as it pleaseth him And had they understood the similitude and the end and use of it here it might have preserved them from denying the Resurrection and living again after the natural and bodily death of the same body that died or dies either of the person of Christ or of the persons of men that shall by him be raised from the dead for it is used as a resemblance of both as appeares by comparing it with vers 20. 23. Where Christ is risen from the dead in the vertue and for the worth of his own righteousnesse in laying down his Life for us that he might take it again is mentioned as the first fruits of them that slept the first born from the dead as also Col. 1. 18. Acts 26. 23. And then the rest that die in Adam are mentioned as afterward to be raised by him in their own order at his coming and Kingdom Now this similitude follows as a resemblance of the resurrection both of him and them and in answer to a sensual question or cavil like this of theirs which he supposes some ignorant and foolish men might make how are the dead raised up and with what body do they come And therefore he propounds the question gives the answer in terms of the present time rather then of the time past or to come because he includes both the resurrection of Christ who was already raised and the resurrection of all men that now die in Adam which is yet to come both being well included and expressed under such termes how are the dead raised with what body do they come That is how is it both in that which is perfected in him and shall be afterward perfected by him as ver 23. and therefore also he still speaks in such phrase or manner of speaking in the present tense in the similitude and further answer following And so we shall finde our Saviour sometimes using the same Metaphor in a like similitude to resemble the necessity vertue and preciousnesse of his own death for us and the power and fruitfulnesse of his Resurrection by means thereof as in John 12. 24. Where after he hath told them ver 23. that the hour is come that the Son of man should be Glorified namely as appeares in what follows in suffering the judgement of this World and on the finishing of that in being raised and Glorified in that body with the Fathers own self compare ver 23. with ver 24. 27. 31 32. and Chap. 13. 31 32. and Heb. 2. 9 10. He then adds verily verily I say unto you except a corn of Wheat fall into the ground and die it abideth alone but if it die it bringeth forth much Fruit its evident by what is before noted that our Saviour there in the comparison points at himself and his own death and resurrection He onely is that man that without his abasement and death might have abode alone without us in his own Excellence and Glory but then he could not have redeemed mankind nor have brought many Sons to Glory now as the corn of Wheat that dieth riseth up after in its stalk to many corns so he dying one for all is so likewise quickened or raised from the dead for or in the behalf of them all that he is the resurrection and the Life for them and they shall all be made alive from the first death by him some to Eternal Life others to eternal Damnation The Wheat they that have done good shall be gathered into his Garner the chaffe they that have done evil shall be burnt with unquenchable fire and all by him and
generation or sort of men have finished their course as well as they But after this the Judgement even after this appointment of the whole kind once to die is fulfilled on all generations then will be the general final and Eternal judgement And though those that now sleep in Jesus and have suffered with him shall have their judgement come upon them their Kingdom glory given them to possess first before the rest of the dead yet that will not be till the time and state of the Resurrection of the just that have suffered with him for they shall first rise from the dead neither will that be till the beginning of that great day of Christ when the dayes of sufferings and trouble to that generation will be ended So that the judgement that properly so called as distinguished from other Judgements in this life that are temporal and reversible even the Eternal judgement that is after death it is in the time and state of the Resurrection for there shall be a General Resurrection of both the just and unjust in which they shall come forth to their judgement and that shall be to both at the hour or day of Christ even at his appearing and his Kingdom Acts 24. 15. John 5. 28 29. 2 Tim. 4. 1. and so much also appears in that which follows Heb. 9. 28. where after he hath said as it is appointed to men once to die but after this the judgement he adds as a remedy against the evil that otherwise might be unto men in that death or that judgement following so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin to salvation now as his first appearing to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself answers to the first death and misery and was effectual that by Christ we should be saved from perishing in it and that through him we might be saved so his second appearing without sin to Salvation answers to the judgement after death and is such as by it all those that now through his grace bringing salvation to all men in due time do look for him shall be saved from wrath through him even from the wrath to come when it shall come forth in that judgement so as they shall stand in the judgement even before the Son of man when he appears and the second death shall have no power on them yea they shall then be saved to the utmost by that his appearing yea he shall then appear to their salvation in that judgement which implies his appearing the second time to be first and the judgement after death following upon it at that his appearing and his Kingdome to come upon men in the time and state of the resurrection as before is shewed compare with the forementioned Scriptures Heb. 6. 2. Rev. 20. 12 13. Again their folly is manifest in taking up a sence of the Word Hell from some common contradions without examination as if in every place it signified that place and state of torment in which the wicked are to be punished for ever after the passing of the Eternal judgement upon them whereas they might have known the word Hell is used in Scripture generally for that which is deep and low obscure and dark And so 1. Sometime for the Grave or disappearing state of death whence t is often translated grave from which and from the power of it there is a redemption and deliverance though no man can redeem himself c. Psal 49. 8 9. 15. and 89. 48. Job 17. 13. 16. with Hos 13. 14. 2. Sometime for any such distress or misery as threatens death and as in which a man is in darknesse that he can see no way out or how deliverance should come out of which yet there may be deliverance though he see not how as Jonahs being in the Whales belly Jonah 2. 2 3. c. see also Psalm 86. 13. 88. 6. and 116. 3 4 c. 3. Sometime for that place and state of darkness and separation from God into which the Spirits of ungodly sinners that dy in their sins are cast and shut up from the time of their departing out of the body unto the judgement of the great day for when the body returns to its dust then the spirit returns to God who gave it Ecles 3. 21. and 12. 7. by him to be appointed to its proper place by whom the Spirits of Believers such as die in the Lord are received into Paradise a place and state of pleasure and rest in heaven under the altar on which the perfect Sacrifice was offered sometimes called Abrahams bosom t is such as in which they are from the time of their departure out of the flesh or body with the Lord made perfect so much as the Spirit without the body is capable yet still waiting for the redemption of the Body and Glorious Kingdom promised And so likewise by him the Spirits of the disobedient that persisted in the refusal of him till their sin was finished are when they depart out of the body at the death of the body driven away shut cut from his presence shut up as prisoners in some place and state of darknesse where they are reserved to the judgement of the great day Prov. 14. 32. Isa 24. 22. 1 Pet. 3. 19 20. And this is called hell Psal 9. 17. Luke 16. 23. Rev. 20. 13. that hell that follows or goes along with the first death Rev. 6. 8. That might have been an everlasting Prison to the Souls or Spirits of all mankind had not Christ abolished death by his appearing and obtained a release of all Mankind unto him and the Keys of Hell and Death into his hand But now by him that Hell going with or pertaining to the first death as in this last sence is onely appointed for a prison for all the ungodly in which they shall be reserved as in chains of darknesse to the judgement of the great day where also they are fil'd with unspeakable horror and torment in their spirit in the remembrance and sence of what they have lost and for what lying vanities and what they must shortly and for ever suffer in soul and body together reunited And out of this Hell there shall be such a deliverance as may be resembled by the deliverance of Prisoners to judgement so Rev. 20. 13. John 8. 28 29. in which yet they are not delivered out of darknesse but still in a state of separation from God and the Light of his countenance brought forth to receive their bodies that slept in dust and in them to receive their final conviction and judgement Again 4. Sometime and but seldome the word Hell singly but Hell fire is used for that wrath to come the lake of fire prepared for the Devil and his angels which is to man the second death into which they are not cast while the body is held in the grave and
who knew not sin was made to be sin for us that he might be made the Righteousnesse of God in him for all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God being justified freely by his Grace through the Redemption he saith not that in us but that is in Jesus Christ whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation c. Yea with his stripes it is that men are healed either in such a sence as in which it may be affirmed in all men or in such a sence as in which its onely true of believers in whom the healing effecacie is Yet that by and with which they are healed is his stripes his Righteousnesse perfected in him through sufferings 1 Cor. 5. 25. Rom. 3. 23 24. c. Isa 53. 5. 1 Pet. 2. 24. And so they are made accepted in him Ephes 1. 6. Whence the Apostle desired to be found in him not having on his own Righteousnesse but that which is through the Faith of Christ the Righteousnesse but that which is through the Faith of Christ the Righteousnesse which is of God by Faith Phil. 3. 9. For of God believers are in Christ Jesus who of God is made unto us Wisdom Righteousnesse Sanctification and Redemption that he that rejoyceth might rejoyce in the Lord 1 Cor. 1. 30 31. with Phil 3. 3. c. But these men being so corrupt and reprobate concerning the Faith of his Person and personal sufferings must needs reject and deride imputed Righteousnesse viz. mens being the Righteousnesse of God in him in an answerable sence as he was made sin for us Their Question therefore as an unlearned Question the phrase of which the Scripture owns not we reject and yet for the help of others further add 1. That the Righteousnesse of Christ by and with which he justifies and sanctifies is one and the same And it is that Righteousnesse which he hath wrought for us in his own body in his whole abasement and laying down his Life that he might take it again for us and so that Righteousnesse of Christ and he himself as the Lord our Righteousnesse and Captain of our Salvation was made perfect through sufferings and in his Resurrection and offering up himself in that body through the offering of which body of Jesus Christ once for all we are sanctified for by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified Rom. 5. and 6. 1 Pet. 2. 24. Rom. 3. 23 24. 27. Heb. 2. 10 11. 14. 15. and 5. 9. 9 12. 14. and 10. 5. 14. with Psal 40. 6. 9. and 71. 15 16. 2. This Righteousnesse of his in what he hath already done and by means thereof is become for us is brought nigh and made known to us in the evidence and demonstration of his Spirit by his Righteousnesse and Faithfulnesse in what he is now doing in the Name of the Father for us in his executing the Office of an Apostle or Messenger of the peace he hath made and is become for us and the Office of an High Priest making intercession and appearing in the presence of God for us that Spirit may be sent forth in his Name to us making known his Words and by or through the knowledge of his Name Justifying and Sanctifying and so making free from the dominion of sin that henceforth they should not serve it 1 Tim. 2. 5 6. Heb. 3. 1. Isa 53. 11. with 1 Cor. 6. 11. and Acts 10. 43. John 8. 31 32. T it 3. 4 5 6. 3. The way of receiving this Righteousnesse and so for experimenting the Justifying and Sanctifying effecacies of it is by Faith in Christ even in his Blood or Death in belief of the Testimony God hath given of him and so in believing in him as the Scriptures hath said John 7. 38 39. Rom. 3. 21 2â— 27. and 4 5. 22. 25. and 5. 1 2. Acts 26. 18. Now Faith is the evidence of things not seen or sensibly possessed as before is shewed see these things more fully in the answers to their Eleventh and Twelfth Queries And as for those renewing sanctifying justifying effecacies of this Grace in Christ which it hath in the believer and so in some sence he sensibly enjoyes as they are not the Righteousnesse of Christ by which he is justified and sanctified But the fruits and effecacies of that so neither are they the object or ground and foundation of his Faith from whence it is begotten living and working but the fruit and end of his Faith Jesus Christ himself as declared in the Gospel is the Object and also the Ground and Foundation of that Faith that is so fruitful he dwelling in the heart by Faith and not otherwise works effectually to the fulfilling all the good pleasure of his goodnesse and the work of Faith with Power Ephes 3. 17. c. 2 Thes 1. 11. All other sanctifications are no better then those Isa 65. 3 4 5. and 66. 17. 26. Question What is that Light with which Christ lighteth every man that cometh into the World which Thomas Moor said is both natural and Spiritual Answ They vary Thomas Moors saying as divers times they did their own Question about the light at that meeting his saying was in answer to their Question as thus stated after other formes of stating it before which when plainly and undeniably answered they see would not serve their turn they then turned it thus What is the Light which Christ giveth or with which he lightneth every man that cometh into the World Is it Natural or Spiritual His answer to this was that he is the Author and giver of both Naturall and Spiritual light even of all that is truly called light and good to men Light being opposed in Scripture as well to sorrow affliction bondage and misery of the outward man as to ignorance and darknesse of the mind and so any help or refreshing in or deliverance out of trouble yea the mercies of the Natural life tending to the comfortable being of it these are called light Hest 8. 11. 16 17. Isa 45. 7. and 50. 10 11. And the contrary evils called darknesse as in the two last cited Scriptures so in Isa 8. 22. And in every mercy of that nature mens condition is bettered from what it must have been if Jesus Christ had not come into the World the Life in him doth and alwayes did produce the light of men even that life that was in him by vertue and by means of his coming into the World and being delivered to death for our offences and raised again for our Justification which was of virtue force and efficacie with the Father before the actual accomplishment of it even from the beginning of mans need when it was undertaken and he fore-ordained and the purpose and Grace given us in the witnesses and oracles of it and so by him and by means of his coming into the World his appearing once in the end of the World to put away sin by the
Children in their infancy no such thing is required expresly because they have not known c. Deut. 1. â— 2. c. Nor are any blamed for not knowing to do good till they are wise to do evil And there is a time when they know not to chuse the good and refuse the evil and no such knowledge being given them nothing of that nature is required of them though the declarations of Gods Grace in Christ are affirmed true concerning them and his free promises in Christ to them and so to be witnessed by his servants But so soon as God requires any hearing knowing or acknowledgement of his Grace of any he prevents them with his Grace bringing Salvation to them even by his Spirit to their spirits as before sowing his Words in their hearts as Mat. 13. 19. And further we say that when the light of the knowledge of God comes to them it shines in darknesse it finds them in darknesse yea dead in sins and trespasses John 1. 5. and 5. 25. Ephes 2. 1. 4. Else no need of shining light into them from without them at least not of such light as in which is both discovery of the objects or things to be known as also giving of understanding or opening the eyes of the minde to perceive what is discovered as Psal 119. 130. with Psal 19. 7. Acts 26. 18. Again we say that if when light comes men love darknesse and like not to retain God in their knowledge they are still darknesse and have not the knowledge of God So the Ephesians were sometimes darknesse but now saith the Apostle ye are light yet he saith not in themselves but in the Lord who is the Fountain and Original of their light Ephes 5. 8. 1 Cor. 15. 34. But if any persist in their chusing darknesse when light comes or on hearing reject or after receiving the knowledge of the Truth put it away from them till his holy Spirit have done shining with them and he take it away from them Then they are left to hardnesse and blindnesse and have no true or morning light in them but a mind void of Judgement Rom. 1. 28. with Psal 8. 12. 2 Thes 2. 11. with 1 Tim. 4. 1 2. Jude 12. And so we read of many that under one or other of these considerations that is either not having heartily received or not retaining or having rejected to the utmost are truly said to have no morning light or knowledge of Christ the morning Star in them as Isa 8. 20. no truth in them Yea that is expresly affirmed of such as say they have no sin as 1 John 1. 8. 10. But if so say they what saith he then to this the Gospel is Preached in every Creature under Heaven Answ To that he saith 1. Where read they those words that the Gospel is Preached in every Creature under Heaven The Apostles were commissioned and instructed to Preach the Gospel to every Creature namely of all the Nations or Generations of mankind as appeares by comparing the three Evangelists Relation of the Commission Mat 28. 19. Mark 16. 15. Luke 24. 47 48. And accordingly the Apostle Paul saith having obtained help of God he did continue witnessing both to small and great not of any thing in every of them but saying none other things then what Moses and the Prophets did say should come to passe and so witnessed them as things not actually accomplished in their day as 1 Pet. â—â— 12. And then not in any person to whom they Preached how that Christ should suffer and should be the first that should rise from the dead and should shew light to the People and to the Gentiles these things the Apostles Preached as now manifested by the appearing of Christ who had now suffered and risen and ascended and received the promise of the Holy Ghost in that body prepared for him once in the end of the World and therein abolished Death and thereby brought Life and Immortality to light through the Gospel 2 Tim. 1. 10. with Acts 2. 22. 36. And so in that Col. 1. 23. The words are as in our reading the Gospel which they the Collosians had heard and of which he was made a Minister was or had been Preached to every Creature and that reading agrees with vers 6. where he saith it was now come unto them as in all the World and did bring forth fruit it was now come unto them in the Preaching of it it appeares it was not in them before for then it could not have been said to have come unto them the Grace of God brings Salvation unto men it finds it not in them before And though in its being brought to them by the Preachings and witnesses of it in the Light and Power of his Spirit accompanying them it came into many of them such as were capable of hearing and so was manifested in them as Rom. 19. Yet still the thing manifested was not any thing essentially in them but that which may be known in God and of his Grace and Truth in and through Christs Repentance and Remission of sins in the Name of that Jesus of Nazareth and not in any other Name Luke 24. 47. with Acts 4. 10 11 12. That Christ had now once in the end of the World suffered in the flesh for our sins and that he was risen from the dead in that body in which he bore our sins on the Tree and is now become therein Gods light to the Gentiles and his Salvation to the ends of the Earth Acts 26. 22 23. with Chap. 2. 22. 36. and 13. 23. 38. 4â— and 17. 3. This was the thing brought to them in the witnesses of it which was also evidenced by the Spirit to their spirits and so manifested in them Yea further he onely that believeth on the Son of God is said to have this witnesse in himself and neither is he said to have the thing witnessed in himself otherwise then by Faith receiving the Testimony God hath given of Christ which witnesse he hath in him But such as like not to retain God in their knowledge but on hearing reject are not yet said to have it though it be still manifested by his Spirit to their spirits and so in them working and striving for reception and entertainment as is foreshewed Yea neither was it so manifested in or to the minds or spirits of all to whom they witnessed it to an opening of their eyes and moving to Repentance for they witnessed to small and great to every Creature of mankind and so unto such as yet were not capable of hearing or attending to the things spoken by them and so of whom therefore no such thing was required yet they witnessed it unto such in as much as they so Preached it as all their hearers might understand the latitude of the Grace of it that it reached to and included their Children as well as themselves and was tidings of great joy to all People Acts 2. 39.
and 16. 31 32 33. Ephes 3. 6. 9. The truth of which they was also before instructed to witnesse as in this their following Ministrations even in receiving the little Children or Infants that were brought to them in his Name as the price of his Blood and subjects of the gracious Kingdom of God brought to us by him Mark 9. 37. and 10. 13 14. with Luke 18. 15 16. Yet had not they the Light of the knowledge of God in their hearts or capacity to understand or perceive the shinings forth of it in the Face of Christ so that Light and capacity to such understanding in every of them to whom their Preaching came or witnesse reached nor in the real being of the thing witnessed otherwise then by Faith in any But further he faith 2. That as by the Gospels being Preached in Creatures may be meant its being witnessed in by and through them to others so as by Gods making use of them to man-ward as witnesses for him and of him and his things to men in such a sence he grants and asserts that the Gospel is Preached by God through Christ in every Creature under Heaven without exception even in all his works of Creation and Providence as Rom. 1. 20. For so the Gospel of the Grace of God which is his Glory to man-ward is declared and shewed forth to men that it may be seen and understood by them in and by the things that are made and preserved for them and to them by and through Christ as the Heavens the Firmament the Sun Moon and Stars Psal 19. 1. 6. and Psal 8. Yea all his works in and over all which his Mercy and Truth to man-ward is witnessed Psal 145. 9 10. 15. and Psal 136. and 148. His preserving man and other Creatures for his use and so his giving Rain from Heaven and fruitful seasons c His patience and bounty to sinners yea his forbearance and long suffering to rebellious sinners Psal 36. 5 6. and 68. 18 19 20. Acts 14. 16 17. Mat. 5. 45. with Luke 6. 35. Rom. 2. 4. 2 Pet. 3. 9. 15. Though of men his Saints do onely truly blesse him with the Mouth or Tongue and from the Heart where the understanding and knowledge of his Goodnesse is received and precious Yet also all his works do and more Gloriously shall praise him he never left himself without witnesse in them to make known to the Sons of men his mighty Acts and the Glorious Majesty of his Kingdom Yea so wonderful is he in working he knows how to make the wrath of man which of it self works not the Righteousnesse of God yet turn to his Praise But what is this to their purpose What makes this for proving such Spiritual Light as aforesaid in every man more then in every beast or plant Do these men suppose that every thing that may be a witnesse for God unto men hath the understanding of the witnesse they bear or of the thing witnessed or Light and capacity to such understanding in them Surely when God opened the mouth of an Asse she spake more truly and to purpose then these men Yet who will say she had in her the understanding of the warning and reproof God gave to Balaam therein or light and capacity thereto Numb 22. 28. 30. Or that the Pillar of the Stones Gen. 31. 45. 48. 52. had in them the understanding or light of the Covenant of which they were a witnesse or that all the things that are made as the Sun shinning the Rain falling c. have the light or understanding in them of the things witnessed in them to man-ward and that may be clearly seen and understood by them Doubtlesse they are brutish that would so infer But it is no strange thing for men that have no Faith in Christ but are void of Judgement concerning that to be also unreasonable or absurd 2 Thes 3. 2. Nor for such as are seeking after and professing to be wise in themselves to become most foolish Rom. 1. 22 23. 1 Cor. 1. 22 23. Thus have we answered in simplicity and plainnesse and not with hidden things of dishonesty but by a plain manifestation of the Truth in the words of Truth have declared our mind and meaning in our words That others when they read may understand our knowledge in the mysteries of Christ According to our measure as 2 Cor. 1. 2 13. 2. 17. 4. 1 2. Ephs 3. 4. And have been the larger for the helpfulnesse of such as will read and consider our Answers Desiring them to search the Scriptures whether these things be so And so far as any in reading and by searching and comparing the Scriptures may be helped to understand the things that we have written to be contained in and confirmed by the words of Truth let them so receive them as the Word of God and not of man And if in any thing they find we speak not according to that word let them refuse it and shew us in love by evidence of Scripture our mistake and we shall thankfully accept it for we dare not make our selves of the number or compare our selves with some that commend themselves c. See 2 Cor. 10. 12 13. for not he that commendeth himself but whom the Lord commendeth is approved verse 18. But let none be either over-hasty to believe every word before he find it contained and confirmed in the words of our Lord Jesus and in the Doctrine which is according to godlinesse nor yet to speak evil of the things he knows not That is if he cannot yet see it to be according to that word already delivered in the Law and Testimony and yet neither can be thereby satisfied that it is not according to it or that the lip of knowledge is not in it let him suspend his judgement and still wait in the believing mindfulnesse of the great things in the Doctrine of Christ for further understanding for so its meet to be said unto God what I see not teach thou me Nor have we in our answers to these queries or in any of our dealings with these men walked according to any other Rule or done by them otherwise then we would that men should do by us That is we have not declared and protested against any of their corrupt principles as evil and Antichristian further then we have been fully assured by the word of God that they are such as may be seen by our shewing them thereby to be such for so such instructions as have not the lip of knowledge in them but do cause to erre from the words of knowledge they may be by the light of the Lord known and discerned to be such and as such to be avoyded though the depths of Satan in them what their lip is and whitherto it tends their wayes being moveable and their Depths in the bottomlesse pit we cannot know them Pro. 5. 6. And therefore it is not our work to search or enquire into them Rev. 2. 24. 25. But in the holding fast that which we have heard from the beginning of the word of the beginning of Christ So soon as ever we perceive and know by the light thereof that the lip of knowledge is not in any Doctrine or spirit that comes to us That it lifts not up the Son of man by taking of his things and shewing them but tends to render him undesirable in what he hath done is doing and will do and to withdraw from the words of knowledge we are then presently to depart from such to cease to hear them and let them be to us as an accursed thing not further to be considered or pondered by us and so to warn others of them for with good words and fair speeches even such may easily deceive the hearts of the simple that in confidence of their own strength and out of an unstable mind and itching ear will be often tempting God and trying and pondering their moveable paths after they have perceived that the lip of knowledge is not in them but the Preaching of the personal sufferings of Christ foolishnesse to them We have therefore left this for an instruction and warning to others that the Truth of the Gospel may remain with believers and that such as are Ignorant and out of the way may be recovered And further we desire of the Reader if ever he see any reply to this of ours he would distinctly observe if they pervert not or alter our sayings by taking them in pieces and changing expressions to marr the sence if also they give not a go-by to the matters of the greatest weight and importance and onely lie at the catch to get some by-matters or words to strive snarle about which can tend to no profit but to the subverting the Reader from the things chiefly to be minded And in observance of this caution we doubt not but the Reader will be satisfied even from themselves concerning their Antichristian spirit without our adding any more by way of return to theirs Which though we will not bind our selves from yet we do not resolve to do though they should give us occasion by such sorry shifts and pretended answers as hitherto they have returned As for their slanders and revilings that follow we weigh them not but commit our selves to him that judgeth Righteously who will at that his second coming which they scoff at when He the Son of man shall appear in his Glory make their folly manifest to all men and bring to light the hidden things of darknesse Then it shall fully appear who have walked in craftinesse Pride Hypocrisie and hidden things of dishonesty in the mean time we are during his good pleasure in his Name and strength his witnesses against it all JOHN HORN THOMAS MOOR Senior THOMAS MOOR Junior FINIS