I take it for those sinfull actions Physiologus But seeing sinne it selfe is onely a voluntarie transgression of the law of God how holdes it with equitie that the soule should be answerable for those selfesame organicall actions which she did neuer voluntarily assent vnto accomplish affect or approoue Lycanthropus Because the animall operations of the soule they being appointed by God to direct and to moderate the organicall operations of the bodie did faile in doing that dutie Physiologus How should shee possiblie accomplish that her appointed dutie concerning the direction and moderation of those organicall operations shee being before verie violently and absolutely dispossessed of the bodie it selfe by whom those organicall actions should haue beene wrought according to her proper and onely directions Besides that the peculiar actions of the vnderstanding affection and will are meere animall respecting either the minde it selfe or the minde and bodie togither Touching the minde it selfe her animall operations are onely to vnderstand to affect and to will These animall operations they are such as the minde her-selfe both may and doth effectually accomplish without the bodie and being quite seperate from it And also she hath her animall motions whereby she is locally mooued without the bodie and being quite seperate from it For so the soule of Lazarus his bodie being dead fower daies in the graue did locally mooue and returne yea by such a non organicall or animall motion the verie soules of the saued damned are at this present continually moued The animal operations respecting the minde and bodie togither they are the dutifull applying of the vnderstanding affection and will to an orderly direction and circumspect moderation of al the organical actions To the timely discharge of which duty the minde especially is bound so long as she is naturally inherent or peculiarly predominant ouer the bodie Else she is freely exempt from all charge of the bodie and hath then her animall operations wherein her office doth wholie and onely consist And euen as in the minde so also in the body there be some such meere corporall actions and motions as the bodie it selfe both may and doth also accomplish without any direction or moderation of the minde As for example The dead carkasse of a man being quite seperate from the soule it hath notwithstanding her corporall dimensions figure situation and habite yea and is locally mooued either downewards by a natural motion or else vpwards or ouerthwart by a violent motion Yea and all these corporall operations and motions the bodie hath and may also accomplish by herselfe alone without any her soules direction moderation or guidance they being especially such actions and motions as appertaine not to the minde at all Now then as the soule hath some such animall operations peculiarlie appropriate to it as it may well and doth effectually accomplish without the bodie being freely seperate from it and therefore no reason the bodie it selfe should any waies be answerable for those peculiar actions of the minde whereunto she was no waies assistant so surely the bodie it hath and may haue some such corporall actions and motions peculiarly appropriated or violently enforced vpon it as it may and doth also effect without any the direction moderation or consent of the soule it being quite seperate from it or from any the directions thereof at the least and therefore it is absurd to imagine that the soule should be brought to account for any those peculiar actions or motions of the bodie which it neuer directed the bodie vnto nor neuer gaue consent to the same in any respect Lycanthropus I know not which waies to answere your speech howbeit very certaine I am the diuell hath really in man a corporall possession at least Physiologus How do you know it for certein sith the diuel is onelie a spirit of a spiritual substance simplie and absolutelie without all mixture of corporall matter and therefore he needeth no such real possession in anie mans bodie Lycanthropus He needeth no such real possession in any mans bodie I confesse in regard of his owne essential beeing Howbeit respecting more especiallie the timely execution of his tyrannicall tormenting of bodies there is necessarilie required in the parties possessed an essential possession at least Physiologus Why man as the Lord God in the verie first creation did constitute spirites and diuels essentiallie absolute in their owne proper beings without anie apparant necessitie of such an essential mixture with humane bodies so surelie you are neuer able to proue from the word that the infinite wise God did euer propound to himselfe in the creation of bodies anie one purpose at al concerning such essentiall possession of spirites and diuels Neither are you able to show by the scriptures that the diuel did euer receiue so large a commission from God concerning mens bodies For very certeine it is that the diuel did earnestlie entreate and the Lord for many respects did purposelie permit as much scope to the diuel concerning Iobs bodie as anie mans bodie besides either before him or after him and yet did the diuel neuer begge nor the Lord neuer graunt anie further power at al concerning the bodie of Iob then onelie an actual afflicting but not anie essentiall possessing at al. Besides that the whole man bodie and soule was preordained by the secret purpose of God to be for euer the liuelie image of his absolute maiestie respecting especially the perfection and holines thereof yea and which more is to be also a perpetuall habitacle and glorious temple for his sacred spirit and therefore it is incredible that the foreseeing wisedome of God would euer permit any such essentiall possession to spirites and diuels as should not onelie most beastlie pollute and deface his owne image but which more is euen reallie as it were transforme the habitation of his holie spirit into a filthie cage of vncleane spirites a most stinking stie for satan him selfe and a most horrible dungeon for damned diuels Lycanthropus Why sir this metamorphosis or change was primarilie effected in the persons of Adam and Euah who being both created according to the image of God concerning body and soule did not onelie quite loose the said image of God but which more is did presentlie put vpon them the verie image of the diuel who is called the strong armed man and they are now become that dwelling house of his which he possesseth and keepeth in peace Physiologus The image of God it was not lost in Adam and Euah as touching the essence but concerning onelie the perfection the sanctitie and holines thereof Neither did they essentiallie but onlie actuallie put vpon themselues the image of satan Neither did that strong armed man the diuel at any time essentially but onely effectively possesse or keepe them in peaceable possession as an house for himselfe And therefore either you must necessarily acknowledge the diuel to haue an essentiall possession not onelie in
which is too too absurd as was told you before Lycanthropus I wonder you are so peremptory in denying this point I hauing not onely the Philosophers as you heard euen now but ecclesiastical fathers both old and new on my side Orthodoxus Your philosophers they shoote faire and farre off as you also haue heard euen now You say you haue fathers both old and new on your side let vs see first whether your old fathers doe come any neerer the marke Lycanthropus First Origen he flatly affirmeth that spirits and diuels are endued with their proper bodies Orthodoxus Origen if that booke be his owne is not to be regarded concerning this question because therein he doth nothing but play the Platonist iumpingfull patte with Psellus in euerie point And therefore he deserueth none other answere then that which was giuen to those other before Let vs heare more authentical fathers or end the discourse Lycanthropus Hilarie he saith there is nothing which in it owne substance and in respect of creation is not corporall And therefore spirits and diuels they hauing their substance and being created are also corporall Orthodoxus Hilarie he saith so indeed but giues no one reason of saying so It is not enough for your selfe to crie out and say Hilarie he speakes it vnlesse Hilarie also doth prooue what he speake which he doth not in the place you alleage He onely propoundeth the matter without any proofe and may easily be answered thus The soule of man it hath her substance and was also created and yet incorporall For or euer it was infused into the bodie and after the dissolution thereof it doth substantially exist and is also immortall accomplishing continually her animall operations Neither needes shee an humane bodie in any respect of her proper essentiall being but onely in regard of her organicall operations as was shewed before And therefore Hilarie he helpes you nothing at all Lycanthropus Tertullian verie plainely affirmeth Angels and spirites to haue their peculiar bodies Orthodoxus Whatsoeuer Tertullian saith there concerning this question the Schoolemen they doe excuse and qualifie his speech on this sort They say that Tertullian by the name of bodie vnderstandeth onely the spirituall substance of Angels and nothing else And this he doth saie they in an onely regard of the simplicitie of that people with whom he delt who helde that nothing coulde possibly exist in nature without a bodie Tertullian therefore in that onely regard did purposely call the substances of spirites and diuels by the name of a bodie Lycanthropus Yea but Tertullian auoucheth further that God himselfe is also a bodie and therefore much more that spirits and diuels they haue their bodies His wordes be these Who will deny God himselfe to be a bodie although God indeed be a spirit Orthodoxus This is so farre from confuting as it rather confirmes that qualification which the Schoolemen doe make Namely that by the worde bodie Tertullian vnderstandeth nothing but the spirituall and simple substance of spirits and diuels Besides that it is one thing to be a bodie and another to haue a bodie Tertullian saith onely that God is a bodie he saith not there that God hath a bodie Lycanthropus Notwithstanding all this he saith elsewhere that spirits and diuels are corporall his reason is because the soules of men are also corporall Orthodoxus Herein his pouerty bewraieth it selfe being constrained as you see to beg his cause wherin also he would proue the same by the same namely corporall spirits by corporal soules Howbeit we haue proued before do here affirm it a fresh that the soules of men they are incorporal and therefore by consequence spirits and diuels they are not corporal but spiritual substances Besides all this Augustine verie flatly affirmeth that the incorporall doe differ fully from corporall substances and denieth withall that whatsoeuer is created the same is a bodie yea he sharpely reprehendeth and derideth Tertullian for auouching the soules of men to be corporall And in the end he thinks it too too absurd to hold that a reasonable soule should be a bodie in any respect because the same is onely and altogether incorporall And thus you may plainely perceiue by Augustine how vnfitly Tertullian doth fit your turne Exorcistes But Augustine himselfe elsewhere verie flatly affirmeth that all reasonable creatures are corporall substances yea and that euen the intellectuall creatures namely Angels spirits and diuels are euerie of them also corporall powers howsoeuer they subsist not of flesh and bloud Orthodoxus How Augustine agreeth with Augustine your selfe may plainely perceiue and therein also may wisely consider what credit consists in such varietie But that your Augustine may also receiue his answere let vs heare his argument whereby he would prooue spirits and diuels to be corporall substances Lycanthropus He reasoneth thus We doe therefore affirme the intellectuall powers to be corporall substances onely because they are circumscribed with place euen as humane soules are also inclosed with bodies Orthodoxus This is his argument Whatsoeuer is circumscribed with place that same is corporall but spirits and diuels they are circumscribed with place therefore spirits and diuels they are corporall I answere the proposition is faultie and halteth downe right For the localitie of spirits and diuels doth not simply depend vpon a bodie which after it owne manner I meane circumscriptiuely and sensibly is no doubt in a place but it ariseth properly from the finitouesse and dimensiuenesse of the angelicall nature it selfe Which said angelicall nature being created of God is therefore but finite and circumscribed also with those her owne termes which are competent and proper vnto her And therefore the intellectuall powers they are in a place because they be finite substances although yet they are in a place but definitiuely or determinately So then spirites and diuels you see they are vndoubtedly in a place because they be locall but they are therefore said to be local not because they be corporall as Augustine imagineth but for that being finite they haue their muchnesse or quantity after a sort I meane no predicamental but an intelligible quantity And therefore Augustine he speaketh soundly you see against Tertullian but proueth your purpose nothing at al. Exorcistes But the author of the Ecclesiasticall opinions writeth plainely that we must beleeue nothing to be incorporall or inuisible but onely God Who alone is truely said to be incorporall because he is euery where present replenishing al things and therefore also inuisible to euery creature because he is incorporall His first argument is framed thus Whatsoeuer is incorporall that same is euery where because vbiquity is the cause of incorporality But spirits and diuels they are not euery where therefore spirits and diuels they are not incorporal Orthodoxus The proposition with his prosyllogisme halteth downe right the same being a deceaueable Elench making that the cause which is not properly the
cause in deed For neither is infinitenesse nor the vbiquity depending thereon the only proper cause that any thing is incorporal but some other thing els As for example an omnipresence or if so I may speake an incorporiety is truely in God howbeit God is incorporal not so much in regard of his vbiquity as because he is a simple spirit Angels in like sort are therefore incorporal in their proper degree because they be spirits but yet created spirits and they are therefore local because they be finite substances Thus then your said author his first argument afordeth smal force you see to your present purpose Lycanthropus But he argueth secondly thus Whatsoeuer is incorporal that also is inuisible spirites and diuels they are not inuisible therefore also not incorporal Orthodoxus First the assumption is meerely false because it maketh spirits and diuels naturally visible which al men do know to be otherwaies by common experience For who euer hath hitherto seene or could possibly perceiue a spirit or diuel as they are in their proper nature Againe in the proposition he failes as before by pretending a cause which is not the cause For the denying of a corporal or bodily beeing is not the proper cause of inuisibility but the absence the vitiousnesse the depriuation or fault of some other thing els which are necessarily required in the action of seeing Besides that by this argument a man might also deny the aiery element to be a body or corporal substance for who can possibly behold or sensibly see the purity of the ayre it selfe Thus then your old fathers you see they in deed and in truth are not interessed at al in that misbegotten ofspring which your selfe so desirously but yet fasly would father vpon them and therefore let vs now here what better hap with the new Lycanthropus With a very good will First Rhodiginus he affirmeth confidently that spirits and diuels haue their proper bodies Orthodoxus How should he so confidently affirme his opinion not hauing the conformitie and concord of truth consorting therewith Besides that Rhodiginus he proues his assertion by the bare and onely authority of Augustine the which auctority and opinion of his as you haue heard it disproued before so surely Rhodiginus himselfe he doth dangerously crosse and annihilate it by opposing many vnauoidable exceptions of scholemen against the same And therefore Rhodiginus his authority is nothing authenticall or currant concerning your question Lycanthropus But Caietanus explaining these the Apostles words according to the prince of the airie spirits or powers he is not afraide to affirme that it holdeth best with reason and sound Philosophie to beleeue that spirits and diuels are constituted naturally of airie bodies Orthodoxus Doth Caietanus say so indeed Oh the wit that abounds in a Cardinals hat But what is his reason I pray you Lycanthropus He hath a reason that knockes it dead namely this Euen as saith he the vegetatiue substance is found without the sensitiue and the sensitiue without the motiue and an intellectiue without either sensitiue or motiue according to place so is it credible that an intellectiue may be found without a sensitiue with a motiue onely according to place and such saith he are spirits and diuels Orthodoxus Doth Caietanus conclude as you say Now faire fall his good hart for his cunning conclusion surely he himselfe alone hath striken the Popingaie dead This I confesse is an admirable argument Howbeit this I must tell you that such maner of arguments howsoeuer they may seeme at a blush to giue a glimmering shewe of conueniencie they haue in them verie small force to conuince And without doubt if Caietanus his conclusion be canonized currant it might in like maner be granted that the sensitiue substance is to be found without the vegetatiue and the intellectiue with the sensitiue without the motiue according to place and so no one thing shall be wanting which may tende to the generalitie and absolutenesse of such kinde of couplings togither Which when all is done your opinion for any thing Caietanus concludes is like to lie in the dust Exorcistes Yea but Georgius he affirmeth plainely that spirits and diuels are not onely corporall and airie substances but that they haue in them also the power of generation and can shedde forth seed for that purpose Howbeit when they come to a woman saith he then they do contract gather togither or thicken their airie bodies fashioning them fitte for the purpose which they presently affect yea and that also their ofsprings are properly Gyants Orthodoxus Notwithstanding Georgius his impudent and shamelesse affirmation of a matter so shamefull I will at no hand be drawne any longer to heare it much lesse doe I giue credite vnto it and which more is I will neither defile my toong nor infect your chaste eares with the filthie contagion thereof it being so impossible in nature and so incredible in all sound Diuinitie Howbeit if any of the learned be further desirous to heare this his grosse impudencie and foolerie more fully confuted I referre them ouer to the learned Treatises of such as haue sifted that offensiue argument vnto the bran More especially to the seuerall workes of Wierus Engubinus Casmannus Aristotle Frisiuss Scaliger Cassianus and others who do euery of them so soundly beate downe this your Georgius his grosse assertion as I my selfe shall not neede to deale in it at all Lycanthropus But yet Zanchius a man of excellent learning he not onely enclineth that way but holdeth withall this my opinion of corporall spirits Orthodoxus Zanchius imbraceth the same I confesse as the more probable opinion in his conceite but what manner of bodies spirits and diuels should haue he doth not determine That they haue airy bodies he seeth not he saith how the same should be proued But he verely supposeth spirits and diuels to haue other manner of bodies then either airie or celestiall bodies and that the substance of their bodies is more like to the substance of that heauen of the blessed which is properly called the Empyrial or fiery heauen Thus this excellent learned man he doth giue among others his coniecturall opinion concerning the bodies of spirits and diuels A coniectural opinion I say very purposely consonant to that other opinion which himselfe and some others doe hold about the creation of Angels in that the forenamed heauen of the blessed Howbeit neither Zanchius nor any of the rest do certeinly determine this matter in question Lycanthropus Well yet Zanchius and the other they purposely encline to this my opinion concerning corporall spirits and diuels Orthodoxus Not so For whereas your selfe do certainly hold that spirits and diuels are endued with grosse and airie bodies Zanchius and some others suppose they do rather consist of empyriall or fierie bodies as was shewed before where also I haue purposelie put downe the speciall reason of this
their coniecturall opinion Howbeit for a further declaration heereof I do answer with Gregorie Beda Damascene the Schoolemen and others who doe all iointly affirme that euen as the knowledge of spirits and diuels in comparison of our knowledge is verie excellent and woonderfull large although yet in comparison of God the same is but shallow and shorte so surely those the supposed bodies of spirites and diuels in comparison of our earthly and palpable bodies may fitlie be saide to be spirituall whereas yet in comparison of the omnisufficient and incircumscriptible spirit of spirites they may after a sort be saide to be corporall And this our censure concerning corporall spirites being rightly vnderstood as it ought to be that is being graunted comparatiuely may very well stande with the truth For certeine it is that Angels are not spirites purely simple as God is most simple neither are they infinite and incircumscriptible spirits as God alone is but are marshalled within their proper dimensions and bounds All which being graunted it doth not thereupon necessarily folow that therefore Angels they are not created incorporall finite spirits and such as after their manner are limitted definitiuely within their proper dimensions but this rather folowes thereof namely that therefore spirits and diuels they are not most simple most infinite illocal nor omnipotent powers For the specialls do alwaies retaine the common nature of their generall and therein they fitly accord howsoeuer by reason of some repugnant formes they doe otherwaies dissent among themselues And thus your Fathers you see both old and new they are fully answered concerning their supposed mannaging of this your opinion of corporal spirits or diuels Philologus Are you able Lycanthropus to reply to his answere Lycanthropus I am vtterly vnable But sir sith you so confidently do hold that spirits and diuels are incorporall let vs heare your reasons and authorities concerning this point Orthodoxus With very good will my reasons are these First spirits and diuels haue not flesh and bones saith Christ as you see me to haue Wherein it is very apparant that there is one substance of humane bodies and another of spiritual powers Spirits they haue neither flesh nor bones therefore they cannot be comprehended with the sight of the eie nor handled by the sense of feeling both which are proper to the sensible perceiuing of humane bodies Againe the Lord saith the Apostle hath made his spirits his messengers and his ministers a flame of fier The which place albeit Dauid doth properly vnderstand of the operation of winds yet for as much as the Apostle applieth the same to the Angels it is not to be doubted at all but as the name Spirit so likewise a spirituall essence appertaineth vnto them Againe we read that a legion of diuels namely sixe thousand sixe hundred sixtie and sixe possessed the man in the Gospell whom Christ deliuered But if diuels be corporall substances and doe essentially enter into the bodie of man it is vtterly impossible that there should so many be crouded together and all contained at once within the narrow corners of an humane bodie Exorcistes Some doe hold there was in deed but one onely diuell in the possessed whose name was Legion Orthodoxus As though it were possible that one onely diuell could be really inherent in two seuerall persons at once Besides that it is verie apparant in Marke and in Luke that there was not one but many diuels yea and Mathew also exchanging the name of one into many he saith the diuels besought Christ that they might goe into the heard of swine Exorcistes Sir I onely haue shewed you what some others doe hold but proceed in your purpose Orthodoxus I proceed thus The spirits or soules of men are incorporall therefore spirits and diuels are also incorporall For if the reasonable soule or spirit of a man be not corporall in any respect I meane if it be neither solide nor palpable as are the earthie and terrestriall bodies neither yet subtile or slender as are the airie and celestiall bodies then without doubt spirits and diuels they are likewise incorporall because they also are spirits For the nature and definitions of a spirit and a bodie do altogither and in euery respect differ betweene themselues And thus besides those Philosophicall reasons which Physiologus propounded before you haue hetherto heard from the Scriptures such seuerall arguments as doe verie plainely conclude the non being of corporall spirites or diuels Pneumatomachus Beleeue me Lycanthropus before we began this our conference I doubted greatly of the essentiall being of spirits and diuels Howbeit now I am cleere in that point and by this discourse doe farther perceiue them to be admirable and woonderfull powers Lycanthropus Verie true as you saie But sir let vs heare I beseech you your authorities also concerning this point Orthodoxus With verie good will Wherein I assure you that this our opinion concerning incorporall spirits and diuels is generallie receiued in the church of God approoued by the consent of many Diuines and confirmed fully from the Laterane Councel Lycanthropus For the generall receite thereof in the Church I make little doubt but let vs heare now your seuerall authorities Orthodoxus Content First Dionysius writeth thus Wee account not saith he the celestiall and deified powers or spirits to consist of innumerable feete or to haue a manifold countenance neither yet to be like vnto liuing and corporall creatures albeit the sacred Scriptures in speaking of them doe vse these Poeticall and fained formes Chrysostome he saith the Seraphimes are called spirits that is incorporall and supernaturall powers And a little after he saith they be called fierie or flaming creatures because their substance is most pure Augustine be defineth them thus Angels and diuels are spirituall powers incorporall substances inuisible insensible reasonable intellectuall and immortall the good ones they are shining and impassible the euill ones blacke and passible Theodoret he saith that God created the vniuersall nature of incorporall substances constituting decreeing and ordeining their said nature to be intellectuall and also immortall Andreas of Ierusalem he saith that Angels and spirites are all without their bodies Gregorie also he saith in like sort that spirits and diuels they haue no flesh Isidore he saith that Angels and diuels according to their nature are called spirits Damascene he saith that Angels and spirits are intellectuall substances euermore mooueable and free by the arbiterment of their proper power incorporall the ministers of God obtaining immortalitie by grace not by nature the portraiture bounds of whose substantiall being onely the creatour of spirites he knoweth himselfe Carolus magnus he saith the essentiall substance of Angels and diuels is immortall because they be spirits by nature Vigerius Saonensis he saith that Angels are all of them spirituall substances without any bodies at all consisting of vnderstanding and will and
more shining shee is at no hand affecting any such bumbasted brauados to support or beare vp her vnanswerable edicts how base or how simple soeuer in outward appearance Ninthly we were lead in like manner to this late publike proceeding in an especiall regard of our woonderfull lothnes that so many palpable vntruths and such pestiferous opinions as in those their published Pamphlets and printed Apologies are broached but lately abroad to the dangerous bewitching and desperate enchanting of many poore ignorant vnstable soules should so passe vnderhand in the publike veiw of tagge and ragge without the timely controlement of any or runne abroad as they doe from hand to hand for good currant payment or euer they be tried with the touch-stone of truth and before they be throughly waighed with the approoued waights of the sanctuarie or not hauing vpon them some discretiue stampe or discerning censure at least Lastly our loyall obedience and conscionable duties towards the timelie vpholding of the Magistrates authenticall authoritie and credit which these men in all the rest more especiallie in that their verie last vndutifull deprauing Pamphlets like petie yoong presses vnderminingly haue publisht in print without any her Maiesties authenticall priuiledge was not we assure thee the least motiue in duty howsoeuer the last in degree to this our lately pretended purpose The premisses therefore exactly considered the reasons themselues being dulie perpended in a more dutifull regard of her Maiesties supereminent authority ouer al persons causes in Christ we doubt not at all but that notwithstanding our former resolutions concerning the respectiue suppressing of these our priuate endeuours the wiser sort will verie willingly dispence with their publishing now at this present especially wherein it may shrewdly be feared the wilde trees of the Forrest doe couertlie combine themselues of a verie set purpose to make the proud bramble-bush some mightie Magnifico in their secret assemblies These occasions considered with a right respect we doubt not at all but that this our now published Treatise will bee deemed as a worde deliuered in due season to so many especially as doe sincerely affect the glorie of God as doe with a prouident circumspection endeuour to propagate the Gospel of Christ brieflie as doe conscionablie praie for and dutifullie pursue that prosperitie of Ierusalem wherein righteousnesse and peace haue kissed each other As for the rest we waight euerie hower when their lauish toongs will be lashing abroad and their intemperate pens will be Printing in corners King Achab his peremptorie proclamation against vs exclaming in their outrage crying vnto vs Haue you found vs O our enimies haue you found vs indeed And will you in no wise prophesie any other but euill vnto vs Well whatsoeuer will be the issue of that their intemperate humour all their exceptions how virulent soeuer they must be such we are sure as concerne either our persons or our cause at the least Their exceptions against our persons they must respectiuelie concerne either our skill in learning or our cariage of life Touching any our great skill of learning we both know and do freely confesse as before that we are euen in our owne eies minimi Apostolorum the verie last and the least of ten thousand that we were borne out of due time and are vtterly vnwoorthy the neme of publike preaohers Howbeit by the grace of God we are that we are his graces we hope they were not bestowed vpon vs in vaine Besides all this the more vnskilfull we be for such publike writing the more able our aduersaries are with their exceeding great skill to answere whatsoeuer we write As for our carriage of life their exceptions that way they must haue a more speciall relation either to our precedent or to our now present practises at least Our precedent practises when they were at the woorst they were none other then those that doe ordinarily attend vpon the corrupt nature of men and therfore howsoeuer they themselues in any Pharisaicall conceit of their owne proper strength may haply imagine themselues to be able to stand let them if they be wise beware least they fall Howbeit if for any matters past either truely knowen or vncharitably suspected the vile venim of their venemous spirits would swell their cankred harts in sunder vnlesse after their accustomed manner with all men they should 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expose our persons to publike reproches we will verie willingly vndergoe whatsoeuer disgrace the Lord for this cause allotteth vnto vs. And which more is we will with patience endure that these furious dead dogs doe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Canem excoriatam excoriare stay afresh our newly flaine carkasses and adde affliction to our affliction Assuring our selues that our gratious God who giues them this leaue to curse poore Dauid afresh so soone as proud railing Shimei hath spit foorth his venemous spite to the full and vented the vttermost force of his limited furie he will then in a great mercie behold our afflictions this day and bestow some present new blessing vpon vs. Touching any our now present practises howsoeuer the common calumniatours of men may happely measure the proportion of our steps by their owne proper footings and so ouerreache vs a large inch at the least we doe here in the honour of Gods holy name with the protestation of our harts very freely acknowledge that albeit we our owne selues do know more by our selues then all the world else yet we praise our good God we do at this present know nothing by our selues that may make vs afraid to confront the very holiest of them all to their face though notwithstanding all this we are not therefore iustified in the presence of him who iudgeth the hart In the meane time we thinke it some part of brotherly duety to forewarne all those our calumnious accusers of this namely that if they still make it their speciall glory to vndergo the gung-farmers office or if they doe still take a singular pleasure to be rifling and raking in euery mans channel euen vp to their elbowes may happily in the end defile their faire fingers and procure a foule sauour to their owne proper persons And therefore we do frendly aduise them to desist from those cullion-like courses in time or if because antiquum obtinet Crito their tatling toongs must needs he tampring that way in corners at least then let them begin first as we say ab ipso lare to be holy at home let them first make a Saint of their owne proper shrine yea let them first pull foorth the beame from their owne or euer they entermeddle with the little moate in their poor◠brothers eie Otherwise they should shew them selues very like to the slouenly barber who being to to curious in cutting in washing and in trimming of others hath no care at all how deformedly he seemeth him selfe Or like to the curious
But what three persons are those that come yonder walking this way Philologus If I be not fowlie deceiued it is maister Orthodoxus maister Physiologus and the Exorcist also himselfe who cast out the Diuell they are euen the same This falleth foorth pat for our purpose we haue now verie fitte oportunitie to conferre of these points to the full Lycanthropus Blessed be God for this speciall prouidence and fauour Orthodoxus God blesse you good brethren prosper your iourney Philologus God blesse you also good maister Orthodoxus and the rest of your companie What my old friend Philologus what make you in these quarters and whether wander you so fast with these good companions Philologus Good sir we are euen now I hope at the furthest For our comming into these quarters is vpon speciall occasion to conferre with your selfe and the rest of this companie about the maruelous woonders befallen at Mahgnitton of late concerning a yoong man possessed there Orthodoxus See see the strange nature of man we were coÌ„ferring euen now about the transforming of Diuels Howbeit all the world I feare me will shortly become transformed Athenians For euery man now doth giue himselfe wholie to the hearing or telling of newes Notwithstanding you are all hartely welcome and this I tell you heere by the way that we also our selues are nowe in debating those matters Lycanthropus Good sir then pardon vs we pray you for interrupting your talke and we will walke heere apart by our selues attending your leisure Physiologus Nay not so for neither is the matter it selfe so secret nor we so earnest vpon it but that if it so please maister Orthodoxus and this other companion you may all be iointly pertakers of our mutuall conference and so much the rather because you are come as it seemes for that selfesame purpose Exorcistes I am very well willing if maister Orthodoxus thinks good Orthodoxus With all my hart And seeing it hath pleased our good God to bring vs so fitly togither let vs for more ease to our selues shroude vs heere vnder the shade along this banke where we may haue the benefit of the running streame to recreate our eies and sences and in so solitarie a place verie fitly conferre of our matters without the discouerie of neighbours or any the interruption of trauellers Physiologus Well sir first place your selfe where you please and you shall see vs quickly come clustring about you Orthodoxus Come then let vs sit closely together Howbeit before we begin our conferrence to the ende the same may be euerie way comformable to the will of God and comfortable also vnto our selues Let vs all ioine together in hartie prayers and say O Lord our God the fountaine of life the welspring of grace and the onely infuser of all spirituall knowledge Behold vs here at this present we humbly beseech thee in that acceptable beautie of thy sonne our Sauiour wherein thou so highly delightest and for whose sake thou canst not but be well pleased with euerie of vs. Graunt deare father that as thou hast ordeined him to be the true light which lightneth euerie one that comes into the world so he may gratiously enlighten our harts who do naturally sit here in darkenes and in the shadow of death Remooue from our grosse and sencelesse soules al those palpable cloudes of ignorance errour and vnbeleefe which seeke to foreclose our sauing knowledge in Iesus Christ. Pluck we pray thee from our vncircumcized eies those thicke and foggie seales of naturall corruption which doe at this present so fearfully dimme and dazel our darke vnderstandings as we are vtterly vnable to discerne aright the hole some things of thy holy law And grant we beseech thee yet further that this our entended conferrence concerning the timely discouerie of these hidden mysteries of Satan sinne and iniquitie may directly tende to the glorie of thy great name the good of thy Church the vnfolding of errour the manifestation of truth the confusion of Satan the tryumph of our conquering Christ and the euerlasting saluation of all our soules through Iesus Christ our only Lord and Sauiour Altogether So be it Lord Iesu euen so Amen Orthodoxus Well now in Gods name declare briefly and plainly what you desire to know concerning the possessed man at Mahgnitton Philologus First sir or euer you enter vpon the perticular discourse of the possessed himselfe our desire is to heare whether there be any spirits or Diuels to possesse men at all the rather because there is one in our companie who verie confidently auoucheth that there are neither Angels nor Spirits Physiologus Who is he and what is his name Pneumatomachus I am the man if it please you and my name is Pneumatomachus Physiologus Your name was geuen I suppose to expresse your nature For Pneumatomachus is as much to say as a despiter of spirits or rather it signifieth one who flatly opposeth himselfe to the essentiall spirits and powers of God Howbeit by that time Maister Orthodoxus hath fully confuted your fowle and palpable errours I doubt not but you will both be ashamed of your grosse vnderstanding and desirous to exchange your odious name Pneumatomachus By your patience good sir it argueth in you a contentious nature to stand deskanting thus vpon names which are but bare notions of things when you haue saide what you can Physiologus And good sir by your License if so be your inward nature be the thing it selfe whereof your outward name doth giue vs the notion then out of doubt your verie name how bare a notion soeuer must needes argue in you an erronious minde Pneumatomachus Erre I confesse I may but dwell in an errour I will not If once I be brought to perceiue it Orthodoxus Gods name be blessed for this so good a beginning Goe to then seeing you make it a Question whether there be spirits and Diuels or no it shall not be amisse first to demonstrate plainely vnto you that there be Spirits and Diuels and then next to declare what we haue more especially to consider of them This I take it will be a very plaine course and such also as comprehendeth fully the limits and bounds of our conferrence Physiologus No doubt it comprehendeth fully whatsoeuer may fall foorth concerning our present purpose Exorcistes The order is such as no man dislikes Philologus I thinke euen the same What say you Pâ—eumatomachus Pneumatomachus I dislike not the order But sir howe prooue you there be Spirits and Diuels Orthodoxus I prooue it first from their essential creation and then next from their effectuall operation Pneumatomatichus How first from their essentiall creation Orthodoxus Because they were essentially created of God For the Lord God creating the whole host of heauen created Angels and Spirits among the rest of celestiall creatures to be of principall account in that heauenly hoste Now then Angels and Spirits they being such excellent creatures of God we neede not to doubt of their
essentiall being The rather because euery creature else how contemptible soeuer being once created it hath an essentiall substance and if the basest of all then much more the Angels they being indeed such excellent creatures Pneumatomachus Well goe to how next from their effectuall operations Orthodoxus Thus their operations haue beene and now are apparantly euident to all the world whether we respect the Lord or his church So that for any to doubt of their essentiall being is to call in question the sun-shine at mid-day and as wel may he denie their operations whatsoeuer Pneumatomachus Good sir is this your substantiall proouing of Angels and Spirits I denie that the Lord God euer created any Angels at all and then to what purpose doe you vrge their supposed operations Orthodoxus Sith you so confidently denie both Spirits and Diuels tell me what you imagine those to be which we generally hold for Spirits and Angels Pneumatomachus Sir I take those your supposed spirits for none other matters at all but the good or euill motions and affections arising in men as also those your imagined Angels I hold them to bee nothing else but the sensible signes or tokens of Gods vnspeakeable power Orthodoxus You do then conclude it should seeme that our faith concerning those matters is grounded altogither vpon bare supposals and idle imaginations of wandring braines I like well your plainnes in laying open your minde although I alowe not your pestiferous opinions iumping so pat with the Parepateticall and Sadusaicall sort Who flatly denying either Angel or Spirite do confidently auouch that there is nothing immortall in man which is a verie dangerous gulph of hell that deuoureth and swaloweth vp all sound diuinitie and sincere knowledge of God For first by opposing your selfe against all the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord what doe you else in effect but implicatiuely reiect the essentiall being of the holy Ghost and then next you do also by consequence verie flatly deny that there is any God at all for what I pray you is God but a Spirite Pneumatomachus Nay sir howsoeuer I oppose my selfe to the catholike opinion of Spirits and Diuels I do confidently auouch and confesse that there is one true euerliuing God of an incomprehensible inuisible and spirituall essence distinguished into the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost And moreouer concerning men and my selfe I do with like confidence verie cleerely acknowledge that euerie of vs also are essentiallie endued with spirituall and immortall soules Orthodoxus You cannot faithfully finally hold these infallible truthes from your hart but you must and will presently banish those other palpable errours from out of your brest For euen as Aaron his rodde deuoured foorthwith the counterfeite rods of all the Egyptian Sorcerers so surely these your confessed truths concerning the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord being faithfully held from the hart will in the end I doubt not be another Aaronicall rodde to confute and confound those other Sadusaical sorceries wherewith the Diuel hath so dangerously bewitched your soule Lycanthropus Verie true if he be not to opinionate therein Pneumatomachus Sir howsoeuer I haue beene hitherto opinionate in this speciall point I am notwithstanding very loth that reason should be ouerruled by will or that the holy truth of God should giue place vnto errour and therefore proceed I beseech you in the timely vnfolding of this hidden mysterie Orthodoxus With very good will wherein also for your speedier conceiuing of that which is spoken we will first lay open the originall fountaine from whence this errour floteth abroad and then next hauing fully answered your arguments we wil directly prooue vnto you both Spirits and Diuels Exorcistes A very excellent order For there by first you shall cleere our iudgements and then next you shall the more fully confirme vs in the infallible truth Lycanthropus That is certainly so But what thinkes Pneumatomachos Pneumatomachus I acknowledge no lesse and do promise withall to giue an attentiue eare to whatsoeuer is spoken Orthodoxus Well then to proceede therein accordingly this I dare boldly affirme that your Parepatetical opinion or rather that this your Sadusaicall sorcerie concerning the non being of Spirits and Diuels proceedeth directly from a two-folde false ground Namely first from the naturall corruption of your proper minde and secondly from a carelesse misconstruing of some certeine places of Scripture Both which saide false grounds albeit I could and might well relate them my selfe yet because the first is rather Philosophical then Diuine I do purposely put ouer the prosecuting thereof as of al other like points to this my good brother if it please him to trauell therin reseruing the latter to entreate of my selfe Physiologus Sith it is your good pleasure to haue it so I will gladly giue my endeuour to satisfie the man so it seemeth him good Pneumatomachus With all my hart if first you will tell me who you are and what is your name Physiologus I am I assure you a friend to the truth and my name is Physiologos Pneâ—matomachus In very good time be it spoken But may I be bold by the way to aske you a question without offence Physiologus Propound at your pleasure and aske what you please Pneumatomachus Was not your name also purposely giuen to purport vnto vs your proper nature For Physiologus you say is your name which vnlesse I be fowly deceaued is as much to say as a babler or pratler of naturall Philosophie or it signifieth rather some notable discourser of naturall causes I hope you are none of those cogging companions of whom the Apostle doth wish vs beware who goe purposely about to spoile men with Philosophie and vaine deceit Orthodoxus Nothing lesse For the man I assure you is both a sound Philosopher and a sincere Diuine Neither would I haue you once to imagine that Paul doth there purposely oppose himselfe to all true Philosophie whether naturall or morall no but reprooueth rather that false and counterfeit Philosophie which hauing onely an appearance of truth and not the substance of truth it selfe is cunningly foisted in by cogging companions to spoile and deceiue mens mindes of the truth indeed For otherwaies all true Philosophie is the speciall gift of God and a principall helpe to Diuinitie so far foorth especially as she is made a submissiue Moderatour in naturall causes and not a commaunding Mistres ouer Diuinitie Then I assure you shee comes in her naturall kinde and thrice happie is he that hath a true insight into her according to that old accustomed saying Foelix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas The wight that could all causes skan Might count himselfe an happie man Now then such a Philosopher is this and therefore be bold vpon my warrant to harken freely vnto him concerning the first ground of your errour Pneumatomachus I credit your words let him therefore proceede in his purpose Physiologus
a blush that God and spirits haue visible formes and corporall substances And thereupon you doe rashlie conclude that spirites and Diuels must necessarily be euen such as your selfe by those places suppose or none at all But now because you your owne selfe with your corporall eies did yet neuer behold any such corporall Diuels as you by those Scriptures haue grossely imagined therefore you doe flatly resolue with your selfe that there are neither spirits nor Diuels at all Pneumatomachus Why what other thing else should those corporall formes attributed to spirits Diuels in the sacred scriptures import but either that Diuels and spirits are visible substances if those scriptures say true or that there are at the least neither spirits nor Diuels at all as I haue hitherto held Orthodoxus That the scriptures say true being truely vnderstoode no true harted Christians may dare to denie That there are also both spirits and Diuels though in truth and in substance they haue no such visible formes as those places of Scripture do literally import shall be prooued anone In the meane time this I must tell you for truth that those scriptures which attribute to God and spirites a corporall forme as eies eares hands feete bodies wings such like may at no hand be expounded literally but must rather be metaphorically and spiritually vnderstoode of vs. So that by any those corporall formes we may not grossely conceiue in God or in spirites such corporall members appertaining especially to their essentiall being but we must spiritually vnderstand â—hereby those their supernatural vertues operations and actions which by such corporall formes are metaphorically commended to our humane capacities And without doubt such a carnall misconstruing of scriptures was the onely maine cause which made the silly old monkes in elder times to fall fearefully into the palpable errour of the Anthropomorphites who by vnderstanding such scriptures literally did groslie attribute to God such humane actions and passions as are proper to men The holie scriptures then I perceiue they may not be interpreted hand ouer head neither are they in euery place to be opened literally Orthodoxus Nothing lesse for so should you fall into a thousand absurdities And therefore vnlesse you will purposely shew your selfe a swinish Saducee or impudently make your selfe knowne a monkish Anthropomorphite be now ashamed I beseech you of this palpable grossenes and hold confidently with the catholike church that there are essentiall spirites and Diuels Philologus Pneumatomachus howe goeth the matter Pneumatomachus That which hath beene hetherto spoken doth sufficiently set foorth a twofold ground of erronious opinions Howbeit this my opinion concerning the non being of Angels or spirits appeares not for any thing heard as yet to be erronious at all And I yet verely thinke as before that Diuels are none other thing else but those good or euill motions in men which doe maruellously comfort or afflict their minds Orthodoxus Thinke you so as you say Goe to then tell me I pray you what was the Serpent that tempted our grandmother Euah in Paradice Was that any good or euill motion in Euah If so then tel me further whether you thinke that motion was within or without her If within her how came the temptation then from the Serpent and from without her altogether But if it came from without her how should then the temptation be iustly accompted any motion of hers sith the same cannot truely be said to arise from within her Againe if you take Diuels to be but the good or euill motions in men what thinke you that tempter was who tempted Christ in the wildernes Was it thinke you any motion in Christ If yea then whether was it an euill or a good motion An euill motion you may not auouch it to be because Christ being free from all sinne could not possibly haue in him any euill motion at all As also it were verie absurd to affirme it a good motion for how could that motion be good which tempted Christ vnto euill Moreouer if you take Diuels for the good or euill motions in men what thinke you then that Legion was wherewith the two men were possessed Could the motions of men craue leaue and enter into a whole heardship of Swine And what became of those motions when they were cast foorth by our Sauiour Christ Were they drowned together with the Swine in the Sea If so what then became of the men themselues from whom as you dreame those motions arose Were they dead all the while their mindes were bereft of their motions For the minde you know is in perpetuall motion Or if those men all the while and euer after their motions were cast foorth and drownd in the Sea remained still in their liuely estate it should seeme that Spirits and Diuels are some other essentiall powers then the bare motions and affections arising in men Briefly if Diuels be nothing else but the good or euil motions in men what thinke you those tormentours to be which vexe and torment men in Hell with the Diuell and his Angels Yea and doe tell me I pray you what goeth to Hell the good or euill motions If only the euill what then must become of those other which were good in the man For sith none in this life can possibly be either so good or so euill but that they haue in them both good and euill motions it cannot otherwaies be but that either the good and euill motions in men must after this life be monstrously confounded together or else if the good motions goe roundly to Heauen and the euill vnto hell then the bodie and soule must be diuided part vnto heauen and part vnto hell like an indiuiduum vagum or some litle new nothing that hangs in the ayre To be short if man with his good and euill motions together goeth foorthwith either wholy to heauen or wholy to hell how then should his ioyes or his torments be either absolute or endlesse Because looke how fast his good motions doe minister comfort vnto him so fast at the least his euill motions will afflict and torment him Phylologus Surely Pneumatomachus this opinion I see is so absurd and so sottish as euen a sucking babe would blush to be taynted therewith Lycanthropus A sucking babe blush yea it is such a stale ridiculous iest as might make euen a mad man to hide his head in a corner Pneumatomachus Verie true and I also my selfe am now ashamed thereof Notwithstanding how soeuer it is certaine that spirits and Diuels be more then the good or euill motions in men it appeares yet for any thing heard that those your supposed Angels are nothing at all but the sensible tokens or signes of Gods power Orthodoxus What meane you by the sensible tokens or signes of Gods power Pneumatomachus I vnderstand thereby those extraordinarie iudgements of God which demonstrate vnto vs the incomprehensible maiestie and might of his power
you the same by probable reasons Orthodoxus I proue it thus 1. The Angels they are either created or vncreated but not vncreated therefore created They cannot possiblie be vncreated substances for then they should also be infinite Howbeit Angels they are finite creatures for their actions are finite yea and then also their power it is finite But if they be of a finite power then also of a circumscriptible essence Moreouer it shall plainely appeere anon in place conuenient that Angels are finite creatures and definitiuely also in some certeine place which thing can not possible accord to any vncreated essence at all And therefore Angels they are not vncreated substances 2 Secondly I prooue it thus If Angels be vncreated then are they eternall but not eternall therefore not vncreated That they are not eternall it is verie apparant For then should they be such as haue neither beginning nor end of their essence as also their essence or nature it selfe should then be such as hath nothing in it either first or last But this agreeth onely to God himselfe and not to any creature in heauen or in earth And therefore if there be Angels then were they created and if created then created no doubt within the sixe daies as was shewed before And thus much for the proofe of this point by probable reasons Pneumatomachus Well Let vs heare next the testimonie of fathers concerning this Question Orthodoxus Withall my hart Wherein also for breuities sake I will onely but rehearse their names and referre you to the consideration of their seuerall treatises The authors be these Methodius Epiphanius Athanasius Augustine Eucherius Theodoretus and Damascenus All these doe verie confidenly auouch vpon speciall occasions and against the Manicheis the Priscillianists and other such heretikes that the Angels whatsoeuer were the vndoubted workmanship of God howsoeuer their creation is not apparantly layd forth in the sacred Scriptures Yea The Councels of Laterane and Bracha both do ioyntly determine that the Angels are created of God and are not eternall in so much as if any shall hold the contrarie they conclude him accursed of God Thus then you see it apparantly euident by Scripture by reasons and the testimonies also of sundrie fathers that Angels and spirits being finite creatures of God were vndoubtedly created within the sixe daies Pneumatomachus But in what day of those sixe were they created Orthodoxus Touching the verie day it selfe there is some difference in iudgement among the Diuines some hold they were created the first day and some the second But whether of both is not certainely concluded although it may probably be gathered they were in verie deed created the secondday thus That they were created before the third day may plainely be proued by the words of the Lord vnto Iob saying Where wert thou when I layd the foundations of the earth Declare if thou hast vnderstanding Who hath layd the measures thereof if thou knowest Or who hath stretched the line ouer it Where upon are the foundations thereof set Or who laide the corner stone thereof When the starres of the morning praised me and all the sonnes of God reioyced The Lord in that place by the sonnes of God vnderstandeth the Angels and spirits affirming moreouer that euen they also did celebrate his name with praise so soone as he had layd the earthes foundation Now the earth Moses saith was made the third day and therefore if the Angels on that day sang prayses to God it followeth necessarily they were then created before for how should they sing prayses before their creation But it is vnlikely they were the first day created because nothing on that day was created saith Moses but the confused Chaos from whence the rest of the creatures were orderly formed and that primarie light which separated the night from the day If followeth therefore that they were all created the second day together with that celestiall firmament vnder whose name is also contayned that supreme heauen which is called the third heauen paradice or the heauen of the blessed And this thing also is yet more plainely expressed by the words of our Sauiour Christ who saith that the kingdome of heauen was prepared for the elect 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the worlds foundation that is after the Lord vpon the very first day had created the Chaos aforesaid then by and by from out of that Chaos was brought the firmament as Moses affirmeth which the Lord God prepared for all the elect By all this it is euident that Angels and Spirits they are essential creatures of God created also within the six daies and so by consequence your vnanswerable argument is answered you see to the full Pneumatomachus I acknowledge no lesse But sir hauing layd downe the mayne grounds of my errour and answered directly my arguments it remaineth by promise that now likewise you produce your owne reasons to prooue plainely vnto me both spirits and Diuels Orthodoxus Verie true And therefore hauing first remooued the olde rubbish which ouerturned the rule of your reason it commeth now verie fitly in place to shew further vnto you that the Angels of God whether good or euill are truely essentiall and substantiall spirits as may plainely appeere by these following reasons first from their sundry names attributed vnto them thus 1 Names they are the signes and notions of things Which names when they signifie any thing properly subsisting of it selfe then that thing also it selfe is a substance no doubt But the Angels they are set forth by sundry names which do signifie substances For first they be called Angels that is to say messengers but a messenger or a minister appointed cannot but be a subsistance Also they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is intellectuall powers but that which hath vnderstanding and knowledge is vndoubtedly a substance Briefly they be called Satan that is an aduersarie also Diuels that is accusors also strong armed men also the God of this world the princes and powers of the ayre the gouernours of this world murderers roring lions the dragon the old serpent so forth All which seueral names do vndoubtedly signifie a thing subsisting wherein is a power from whence proceedeth an action and therefore there are essentiall spirits and Diuels 2 Againe if spirits and Diuels were onely but the secret motions and affections of men then vndoubtedly so many famous actions as the Scriptures record and the same also externally to the outward senses could in no wise accord vnto them but the consequent is false for the Scriptures apparantly and without any trope doe celebrate their office and record their sundrie actions namely that they stand before God serue him execute his precepts and iudgements that they doe daily assault tempt torment circumuent and seeke to deuoure vs and so foorth But how should these or any one of these
imagined may do can conclude no certeintie of doing at all Neither do we dispute what the diuell either may or is able to doe but what in deed and in truth he doth truelie accomplish Howbeit to vse fewe words in a long matter and plaine termes in a doubtfull case this I auouch for truth that the diuell neither can contract nor possibly may diminish his substantiall being at all For as he is a spirituall creature created for vengeance so hath he for that selfesame respect an essence and forme especially proper vnto himselfe alone yea and the same so peculiarly appointed vnto him as he himselfe cannot possibly augment diminish or any waies alter the same but must needs be contented therewith as with that which the onely wise God hath in wisedome especially ordeined and assigned vnto him yea euen as peculiarly as he hath appointed to euery of vs our proper substances without any power at all to alter the same Lycanthropus Tush let mans mind be what may be whether bigger or lesse in proportion then the spirite of the diuel I passe not a pinne this I constantlie hold that the same is the verie receptacle or place of abode for the diuel during al the whole time of his real possession Physiologus Sith you wil needes haue mans mind the verie habitacle or place for the diuel his real possession go to then tel me what kind of place you hold it to be Whether do you take it to be a common or proper place Lycanthropus What meane you by a common place Physiologus That wherein manie substances are or may be at one and the selfesame time Such as is the heauen the earth a temple an house and such like al which may truelie be saied to be common places for that manie substances may ioyntlie be placed in them al at once As for example Some thing may truely be said to be conteined within the celestiall firmament because it is in the fier in the fier because it is in the ayre and in the ayre also because it is in the earth For al and euerie of these at one and the selfesame time are ioyntlie comprehended with in the firmament or cope of heauen Lycanthropus Then I doe hold mans mind for no common but the diuel his peculiar place of abode for the present Physiologus If you hold mans mind for the diuel his peculiar place then must his said mind be able absolutelie and fully to circumscribe the diuel his essential being For a place is the circumscription of an essential substance And by this you may plainelie perceiue how at vnwares you are grosely ouertakē with that palpable absurditie which Phylologus not long since enforced vpon you Namelie that the mind of man it being as you falslie suppose the peculiar place of the diuel must necessarilie if so we may speake be larger in muchnes and proportion then the spirite of the diuel For howsoeuer neither spirites nor diuels they being no corporal substances stretched out by Dimensions or by anie massie huge matter may truely be said to be in a place commensuratiuelie or dimensiuelie notwithstanding al this both spirites and diuels they being finite and circumscriptible substances may truelie be said to be in a place definitiuelie or determinatelie Spirites therefore and diuels being as your selfe doth suppose definitiuelie though not dimensiuelie in the possessed mans mind his said mind concerning the essential being thereof must determinately and definitiuely exceede in proportion and muchnes the spirit of the diuell Howbeit sith in anie case you will needes make the possessed mans mind the peculiar place of the diuel for the present do tel me I pray you Whether you accompt his said mind to be a verie corporal or onelie an imaginarie place Lycanthropus Euen a verie corporal place for the present Physiologus If you accompt the possessed mans mind a verie corporal place of the diuel the diuel then him selfe he must needes be a moueable bodie because a corporal place is that wherein a moueable bodie both moueth and ceaseth to moue Howbeit the diuel you haue heard he is onelie a spiritual essence and no moueable body and therfore it is very absurde you should affirme the possessed mans mind to be a corporal place for the diuel And that which is much more absurd the possessed mans mind it selfe it being properlie in perpetual motion should by this meanes be made also an immoueable bodie sith it is one special condition of a corporal place to be of it selfe immoueable Because a corporal place is none other thing els but the interiour superficies of a bodie contayning the thing placed therein and the superficies is onelie an accident in the predicament of quantitie Howbeit accidents we know they are not moued of them selues or by their proper motion but onlie by accident I meane by the motion of some other namely by that selfesame subiected moueable bodie whereunto it is peculiarly and properly inherent Otherwaies if a corporall place should by any locall motion be mooued of it selfe then of that selfesame mooueable place there must needs be another place because whatsoeuer is mooued of it selfe the same is mooued in a place And so by consequence there would be a progresse in endlesnes which thing euen nature it selfe doth abhorre By all the premises then you may plainely perceiue how grosse and absurd a thing it is for your selfe to auouch that the possessed mans mind should be for the present the corporall place of the diuel and therefore you are necessarily enforced to make it an imaginarie place or no place at all Lycanthropus What meane you by an imaginarie place Physiologus That selfe same receptacle wherein any thing is vnderstood to be imaginarily or spiritually and not dimensiuely or corporally As for example Angels spirits diuels soules seperate from bodies as also immateriall accidents all these we imagine to be in a place whereas yet they occupie no corporall place neither doe they supplie or fulfill any place at all Lycanthropus An imaginarie place then I perceiue by your speech is in deed and in truth no place at all Nay sir I may at no hande auouch the possessed mans minde to be but an imaginarie place of the diuell for so should I vtterly ouerthrow his reall and substantiall being in man Physiologus And yet euen such a place you must assigne him you see concerning his reall possession in man or no place at all For besides those corporall places which we handled euen now there is ordinarilie and naturally no place to be found Lycanthropus Why then do the scriptures auouch in plaine termes that the diuell entreth and dwelleth in man if he haue in man no substantiall or reall possession Physiologus The meaning of those termes woulde be easily vnderstood if you were once throughly acquainted with that ordinarie doctrine which respecteth those three maner of waies whereby any thing is saide to be in a place Lycanthropus
to answere Augustine by Augustine himselfe both in the very same booke and else where besides Wherein he flatly affirmeth that the angels do outwardly helpe vs by certaine visible apparitions or sights which they propose offer before our eies Those selfesame apparitions hauing not onely an apt resemblance of naturall bodies but which also are subiected vnder their Angelicall auctoritie and power Thus the Augustine you see is so variable in himselfe concerning this point as no certaintie can be concluded of that which he speakes Lycanthropus By this one shift you may easily shift ouer what truth soeuer the holy fathers affirme Ortâ—odoxus I neuer yet sought to shake of any truth by shifts Neither doe I preiudice Augustine or any of the fathers by viewing and reiecting their variable opinions for so Augustine in his latter Retractions oft times reiecteth himselfe And howsoeuer Augustine or your selfe doe dreame in this point very certaine I am as was shewed before that the good Angels of God in their orderly execution of any peculiar office appointed by God were neuer essentially mingled with the minds of the godly No verely but in all their ambassages they doe either manifest themselues by seeing and hearing or assist vs eftsoones by some other sensible meanes howbeit they at no hand do helpe vs by any reall commixture of their proper substances together with ours No that God of order who ordereth all things in number in waight and in measure hauing decreed no such course at all would at no hand permit such confusion of substances nor endure such shamefull disorder among anie his creatures in heauen or in earth Lycanthropus Tell me then by what meanes they do hurt men Orthodoxus Not by any essentiall possession or reall commixture of themselues with mens mindes but by that selfesame effectuall power which euen now worketh mightily in the disobedient children By the efficacie also of which working power they become lying spirites in the mouthes of false prophets they worke lying woonders in all deceiueablenes of vnrighteousnes they buffet mens mindes with fearefull tentations they endeuour to sifte and to winnowe mens soules as men winnow wheate they circumuent them with wiles they make men vncleane they possesse them by deafenes they strike them with blindenes they subdue them through dumbnes they ouercome them by lamenesse yea and euen binde them as it were with diseases a long time togither Brieflie the diuel hauing power ouer death by the efficacie of that power he doth vexe and torment men within and without compassing ouer the earth running like a ramping roaring lyon continually about to deuoure Lycanthropus Yea but how should they possiblie either hurt or deuoure hauing in men no reall possession Orthodoxus You do ouer-grosly conceiue of the matter and with as good reason might aske me howe an enimie should possiblie hurt the captaine which keepeth an hold he hauing in the saide captaine no reall possession Howbeit this me thinke you might know by experience that notwithstanding the want of reall possession the enimie may many waies hurt the said captaine as by giuing him bribes to betray the hold by assaulting by battring by undermyning by pyning by wounding yea and by slaying some of his souldiers before his face All these and many moe annoiances the enimie may offer the captaine though not essentially inherent in the captaine himselfe yea and by the dispatching of these he cannot choose but vexe and torment the captaine himselfe euen as if he had really and substantially possessed his person After the selfe-same maner dealeth Satan with such as he is said to possesse For albeit he doth not substantially enter into the possessed mans minde which is as it were a grand-captaine ouer the bodie yet for all this the diuell that sworne aduersarie of man by deuising procuring applying and by ministring many strange sicknesses diseases and deathes to the bodie he doth no lesse violently vexe and torment the minde it selfe then if he were essentially entred therein Yea and all these the forenamed annoiances he effecteth at his owne will and pleasure Partly for that he is of long experience in mischief hauing bin a practitioner therein from the beginning of the world Partly thorough a more easie maner of knowing things he being very sharpe sighted throughly acute not needing those meanes which earthlie men neede to vnderstand and to find forth the natures effects and causes of things And partlie also by reason of the excellencie of their proper nature they being most speedelie caried from place to place being of infinite power in comparison of vs and being also of such an exquisite knowledge as eftsoones they vndertake by obseruing euents and by conferring of causes to coniecture the timelie successe of manie their mischeiuous enterprises By al the premisses then it is verie apparant that the diuel he hath such an effectuall power permitted vnto him as he needes not essentiallie enter mans mind to accomplish any his diuellish enterprises Lycanthropus If diuels enter not essentiallie into the possessed mans mind how should they possiblie encline or bow his saied mind to their purpose Orthodoxus Touching the enclining of mindes if we speake herein according to truth God alone is properlie said to worke in the minds of men and to encline their wils which waies he please although yet spirites and diuels they may also be considered as helpers herein howbeit such helpers no doubt as doe rather moue by external reasons then encline at al by internal actions And euen so the lying spirite in the mouth of Ahab his prophets was after a sort an helper to God Concerning therefore the enclining of minds we must here distinguish betweene the interiour efficient who onlie is God and the exteriour agent namelie spirites and diuels Againe the meanes whereby the exteriour agent doth worke is twofold The first is the external obiect of the mind it being apprehended of the vnderstanding for good and effectuallie offered also vnto the wil. For euerie facultie of the mind is especiallie moued by his proper obiect not only offered but apprehended also effectually The other external meanes enclining the mind is seated in those affections and passions that are placed in the sensitiue appetite namely lust anger loue and such like by which also the wil after a sort is inclined to something Now then spirites and diuels they are able by external obiects to stirre vp affections and passions in the sensitiue appetite Howbeit not simplie and absolutelie as God who is said to haue the hearts of kings in his hand and who also is able alone to encline mans wil effectuallie to whatsoeuer he please but after a sort and so far forth also as they by external reasons are able like councellours to perswade the wil vnto something For they cannot possiblie compel the wil the same
by nature reiecting al maner of compulsion although yet by perswading and alluring they may after a sort be saied to encline and to moue the mind Now then this their enclining you see it consists not in anie essentiall possession but onely in an effectuall operation whereof we wil discourse to the ful when we come to entreate of actual possession In the meane time do now cease for shame to auouch any longer the mental possession of diuels Lycanthropus Wel sir howsoeuer you denie the mental possession of diuels I doubt not but they may haue a corporall possession in men Orthodoxus This point will require a large discourse And therefore let vs here giue ouer a time till after our supper and then if you please we will conferre thereof for an hower or two Physiologus Your motion is good and we willingly yeeld Orthodoxus Then let vs in Gods name arise and depart to my house to a schollers repast Philologus The Lord be blessed for that which he sends Lycanthropus We will willingly attend vpon you The end of the second Dialogue The third Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether Spirits and Diuels do essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie And whether for that purpose they haue peculiar to themselues true naturall bodies The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOM'ACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus HAuing seated our selues in order I would very willingly know what it is that Lycanthropus requireth-concerning the corporall possession of diuels Physiologus Good sir he is old enough to expresse his owne minde let him therefore speake for himselfe Lycanthropus Yea sir I am of age I hope to tell my owne tale howsoeuer I meane not to make you my Proctor Physiologus If you would I were like to speake verie sparingly in so badde a cause vnlesse you could haply corrupt my conscience with a left-handed bribe Lycanthropus Howsoeuer your selfe may haply stand in some neede of a proctorly bribe my cause it standes in no neede of bribe-pursing Proctor Orthodoxus I like not these girding quippes for howsoeuer they demonstrate some sharpenesse of witte they argue much want of a charitable patience Besides that they are nothing to the purpose we come for and therefore good Lycanthropus goe directly to worke and tell me what you desire to know concerning the corporall possession of spirits and diuels Lycanthropus My desire is to know whether spirits and diuels do essentially enter into the bodies of men Orthodoxus For answere hereunto it shall not be greatly amisse first to shew what the corporall possession of diuels is supposed to be and then next to declare mine owne opinion concerning that point Lycanthropus What I pray you is the corporall possession Orthodoxus It is that whereby the diuell is supposed of some euen really and essentially to enter into and substantially and inherently to dwell in the possessed mans bodie during the whole terme of that his tyrannicall dominion ouer the man whom he so really and personally possesseth Lycanthropus This supposed possession of diuels I suppose is vndoubtedly sound but what is your owne opinion cōcerning this point Orthodoxus My opinion is this namely that the diuels neuer had anie such reall possession in men but onely an actuall possession Lycanthropus Conclude you then that the diuels haue in men no corporall possession at all Orthodoxus If by corporall possession you doe meane that the diuels essentially enter into and inherently dwel in the possessed mans bodie I see then no reason at all but that I may boldly conclude it Neither do I perceiue how your selfe should euer be able to contradict the infallible truth thereof For verie certeine I am that no such essentiall possession is any where extant in all the Bible Lycanthropus Oh yes sir in euery place of the Bible almost especially there where those matters are handled it is said the diuels entred into them that they enter in and dwell there that Christ charged the diuell to come out of the childe and to enter no more into him and so foorth All which places doe plainly demonstrate that the diuels haue really a corporall possession in men at the least Orthodoxus I see no such matter demonstrated frō any of those places Lycanthropus No doe What I pray you can be more plaine then this come out and enter no more into him Is there not a most plaine opposition betweene entring into and going out from And are not the words in the originall and enter no more into him What can be more plaine I beseech you Orthodoxus That there is an apparant opposition betweene entring into and going out from I freely confesse the words also in the originall I plainely approoue although yet I graunt from thence no reall possession Else how vnderstand you this place in the Apocalypse where the Lord saith and I will enter in vnto him What now because the holy Ghost there vseth the verie selfesame word of entring into must we therefore thus grossely imagine that the Lord God he also essentially entreth into the harts of so many as open vnto him by faith and repentance that were too too absurde Also where it is said that after Iudas receiued the soppe then Satan entred into him Albeit the verie selfesame word of entring into be vsed here also yet may we at no hand conclude that therefore the diuell had in him an essential possession no for the holy Ghost else where doth otherwaies expound himselfe saying that the diuel had now darted or thrust into Iudas his hart to betray his maister Making the entring of the diuell into Iudas his hart to be nothing else but a suggesting or thrusting of the entended treason into him as was shewed before Whereupon it is verie apparant you see that this going out and this entring in of the diuel may not so grossely be vnderstood of any real or substantiall possession but onely of an effectual and powerful operation Lycanthropus Nay sir by your patience there is more to be vnderstoode therein then onely an effectual operation For the Euangelist saith thus and entring in they do dwel there Now then dwelling in a place you know it doth not onely presuppose an essentiall entrance into that selfesame place but concludeth withall a real possession there where the partie possessing doth really inhabite Orthododoxus Howsoeuer you insist vpon the bare words of entring and dwelling yet no real possession but onely an effectual operation must be vnderstood thereby Otherwaies what thinke you of this place where our Sauiour saith If any man loue me he wil keepe my word and my father wil loue him and we wil come vnto him and dwel with him Now then to vse your owne reason dwelling in a place you know it doth not onely presuppose an essential entrance into that selfesame place but concludeth withall a real possession there where the partie possessing doth really inhabite And so by consequence if we strictly tye our selues vnto words
then the father and the sonne both do really and essentially inhabite in the harts of so many as obserue the word which how absurd it is to auouch your selfe may consider Besides that if you so strictly doe tye your selfe to the obseruation of words how vnderstand you this scripture The good Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and an euil Spirit of the Lord came vpon him Would you haue vs to imagine fromhence that king Saul himselfe was really possest with an euill spirit or a diuel Lycanthropus Yea what other thing else Orthodoxus Then may we by the same reason conclude that Saul also before that time was really possest with the good spirit of God For when Samuel annointed him king it was said in like sort that the spirit of the Lord should come vpon him Againe that the spirit of the Lord it came vpon Saul Yea then may we likewise conclude that Dauid also himselfe he was really possest with the good spirit of God for it is said that after Dauid was annointed the spirit of the Lord came vpon him Now then tell me I pray you whether you thinke that Saul and Dauid were really possest with the good spirit of God and that the spirit did essentially enter into them Lycanthropus I vnderstand it euen so I assure you Orthodoxus Why man besides the absurditie arising thence the verie letter it selfe importeth a quite contrarie sence to that which you seeme to insert For the wordes of the text are not thus the spirit of the Lord entred into them but the spirit of the Lord came vpon them both Howbeit whether it had beene the spirit of the Lord entred into them or came vpon them it is al one in effect and may in no wise be vnderstood of anie essential possession but of an effectual operation of that spirit of God whether good or euil For in euerie of those places the word in the original is tsalac Which Ierome translates leaped vpon them Lyra he hath entred forciblie vpon them Pagnine he hath rested vpon them Tremellius he hath rushing vpon them Montanus he hath prospered vpon them None of al these howsoeuer they differ in termes they dreame not you see of anie real possession at al. Yea and the word tsalac also it selfe if we respect the natiue signification is properlie to be translated thus The spirit of the Lord preuailed had prosperous successe did happelie proceede or prospered greatlie in Saul and in Dauid al which hath relation to the efficacie and not to the essence of the spirit at all Otherwise if notwithstanding al this your selfe wil needes vnderstand in that place an essential entrance or real possession the grosse absurditie thereof may more plainlie appeare by the conference of this one with some other places of scripture where the selfesame word is also in vse As first where Eleazar saith vnto Laban hinder you me not sith the Lord bath prospered my iourney Would you expound it thus hinder me not sith the Lord hath caused my iorney verie really and essentially to enter into me Againe where it is said that whatsoeuer the godlie man doth it shall prosper Should we translate it thus the godly mens waies shal substantiallie enter into him Againe where the holie ghost saith vnto Salomon prosper thou with thy glorie Should we expound it thus let thy glorie substantiallie and reallie possesse thy person Briefly where Ieremie complaineth thus why doe the waies of the wicked prosper must we imagine that the waies of the wicked doe enter essentiallie into their bodies and soules that were to to absurd And yet in such a strict tying of our selues to the word we may by as good reason enterprete these places thus as those other of Saul and of Dauid the holie ghost vsing especially in euery of them al but one and the selfesame word Exorcistes If the scriptures be so intricate concerning these pointes what waies were we best to take for the vnderstanding of them aright Orthodoxus You must not be haled hedlong an end with an inueterate opinion receiued hand ouer head from hand to hand without further search or due trial of the trueth of the matter but must verie hartelie pray and most conscionablie depend vpon the holie spirit of God for a true vnderstanding and wisedome herein For seeing the proper nature of spirites and diuels is not in the sacred scriptures so exactly so plainely set downe as that thereby we may certeinly know them euen as they are in their proper and essential being we must therefore most humbly endeuour our selues very faithfully to imbrace and constantlie to beleeue the true sence of the scriptures concerning these points yea euen in such simple sort as the holy spirit of God who is the Lord of all spirites hath set downe the same Alwaies remembring this that spirites and diuels they are in the scriptures euermore spoken of as of spiritual substances howsoeuer for the onelie helpe of our slender capacities they be sometimes more groslie expressed by parables and metaphors and in a more sensible or corporal manner then otherwaies they are in themselues And therefore whereas it is said that the spirit of the Lord came vpon Balaam Othoniel Gedeon Iphthah Sampson Saul Dauid Azariah Ezechiel and others Moreouer where it is said that the Lord seperated the spirite of Moses and put in vpon the seuentie Elders againe that the spirit of Eliah was double vpon Elisha that Caleb had a spirit farre differing from the rest of the Israelites and that Daniel he had a more excellent spirite then al the rest yet that selfesame entrance into that resting vpon that multiplying that doubling and that excellencie of the spirit is not to be vnderstood of any real or essential possession but of an effectual and powerful operation of that selfesame spirit concerning the speciall worke for which it was sent So as although the spirites of the Lord whether good or euil are said to be giuen by proportion and nomber yet not the substance or quantitie but the condicion or qualitie of the spirit it selfe must be alwaies presupposed and ment thereby which is a point that I would haue you especially to consider throughout our whole conference concerning spirites and diuels Lycanthropus This I confesse is a verie good caution concerning the condition qualitie and operation of spirits Howbeit for any thing hetherto heard I can at no hand be perswaded but that the diuell albeit mans minde be free doth really and essentiallie enter into the possessed mans bodie Physiologus Goe to imagine that this your supposall were euerie waie sound and then do tell me withall what the diuell doth in the possessed mans bodie Lycanthropus What doth he there verie vntowardly I warrant you for euen in that selfesame bodie and by the helpe of that body he doth effectually accomplish and execute those
his preposterous actions Physiologus Preposterous actions indeed for the diuell to appropriate to himselfe the peculiar organon of the possessed mans soule Do you imagine the Lord euer propounded any such end to himselfe in the creation of bodies Or do you suppose the Lord euer granted so large a commission or that the diuell himselfe euer receiued such an absolute power concerning the bodies of men But go to what becomes of the soule or spirit all the while the diuell himselfe is really inherent in the possessed mans bodie Remaines the soule still in that bodie as in her proper habitation appointed of God till the day of her vtter dissolution by death Or is it for the whole time of the diuell his being in that bodie vtterly exiled thrust out from the same Lycanthropus Naie the soule is not euen then secluded or shut out from the bodie at al but continueth and lieth therein like a subdued prisoner fast bound hand and foote yeelding ouer to the diuel for that present his whole interest concerning the bodie and endureth perforce his inexorable and tyrannous crueltie Physiologus But tell me I pray you is not the soule or the minde of a man an incorporall substance or a spirit equally diffused and spred throughout the whole bodie and euerie part thereof according to powers and proportion not Arithmeticall but Geometricall so as all the members of the bodie it selfe doth effectually fulfill their peculiar offices accordingly They being the proper instruments of that selfesame minde or spirituall substance furdering freely the organicall operation thereof and excecuting readily whatsoeuer the minde shall giue them in charge And that therefore this selfesame bodie being thus vtterly depriued as you say for the present of the soules organicall operation is in effect but dead to the soule because wheresoeuer is an vtter priuation of the soules operations concerning the bodie there the life of that man is for the present dissolued Hold you all this for a truth Lycanthropus Yea I may not denie any part thereof Physiologus Seeing then you doe flatly conclude that the minde or spirit of man is the first substantiall forme or action in a liuing bodie and the originall or primarie cause of all effects whatsoeuer performed duly therein as being that onlie whereby we doe liue perceiue desire are moued in place and doe also vnderstand how is it possible that the soule or mind of a man being naturally in perpetuall motion should at any time lie idle in her bodie it being the proper Organon of the soule peculiarly appointed vnto it by God yea euen vnto the very dissolution thereof Or how should the said soule or minde lie bound like a prisoner in her proper bodie and not execute effectually those selfesame operations and powers which are peculiarly appropriated vnto it for the special seruice of that selfesame bodie Lycanthropus What meane you by the proper operations of the soule or minde Physiologus I vnderstand thereby all those peculiar actions which doe necessarily succeede the powers of the minde as proper effects peculiarly appertaining vnto it Otherwaies this peculiar power of the minde it being a meane betweene the substance and operations of the minde are the only efficient cause of the said mindes operations should be vtterly in vaine and to no purpose at all vnles the peculiar effects of that selfesame power did vndoubtedly and immediatly succeede the same Howbeit these selfesame effects cannot possibly succeed the saide power of the minde so long at the least as the Diuel himselfe really possessing the bodie doth wholy and absolutely take vp the said bodie with the members thereof to accomplish his mischieuous purposes As for example all the operations of the minde are either organical or animal The organical operations they are those seuerall actions which the minde can in no wise accomplish but in the bodie it selfe and by all the seuerall members thereof as by the proper instruments for that purpose peculiarly appointed vnto it Namely the nutritiue augmentatiue and generatiue operations appertaining especially to the vegetatiue life also the facultie of seeing hearing tasting smelling handling and of common sense moreouer the imaginatiue the memoratiue the concupiscible irascible and motiue faculties being all attendant vpon the sensitiue life Now then these and euerie of these are the organical operations of the minde yea and such also as the minde cannot possibly effect but in her owne bodie and by all the partes thereof as by the peculiar instruments appointed of God And therefore how should the possessed mans minde his bodie it selfe being thoroughly surprised and taken vp as you say by the Diuel at any hand accomplish either all or any one of these organical operations Lycanthropus As the minde her selfe cannot but be in perpetuall motion so surely being forcibly restrained from these her organical operations she must for the present be faine to put in execution and to practise as she may her animal operations Physiologus The animal operations they are such speciall actions as the minde of it selfe both can and may effectually accomplish without the bodie namely those three essential powers of the reasonable soule called the vnderstanding affection and will Whereof the two last are fitly termed the intellectiue appetite whereas the organical affections arising only from out of the hart the lyuer and entralles are called the sensitiue appetite But for as much as these animal operations all the while the minde it selfe is seated in her proper bodie are by the order of God appointed to be the directours and moderatours of all the organical operations I aske you by what meanes the mind may accomplish her appointed dutie concerning the direction and moderation of those her organical actions so long as the Diuel himselfe doth really and wholy take vp the said bodie with her seuerall partes to become the vnhappie instruments of his Diuellish attempts Lycanthropus I see no possible helpe but that the minde it selfe must giue place to the Diuel for a time Physiologus Giue place for a time for how long I beseech you Put case this man be really possest of the diuell for seuen yeeres togither or more and that in the meane time he should die before the diuell be dispossest of his bodie which for any thing knowne to the diuell he may very well do for his daies are determined which he cannot possiblie passe Now then the soule it selfe being surprized by death and so seperate from the bodie it selfe before she recouer her pristinate power concerning the saide bodie or any the organicall actions appertaining vnto it to whom must those the disordered actions wrought in the bodie all the whole time of the diuell his reall possession therein be imputed I pray you Whether to the possessed mans minde or to the diuell himselfe that possesseth his bodie And whether of both must yeeld an account vnto God for those seuerall actions of the sinfull bodie Lycanthropus The verie soule it selfe is answerable
diuel should essentially assume to himselfe the bodie of Samuell it being before consumde in the earth Surely this your opinion as it auoucheth a resurrection of bodies before the generall iudgement so it ascribes to the diuell an absolute power of raising dead bodies which onely is proper to God as was shewed before and the marginall note may tell you withall that the diuell hath no power ouer the dead Besides that if it were Samuels body in deed then it was so either with or against the Lords will Against the Lords will it could not be because he is omnipotent and able euen to tread downe satan vnder our feete and with his will it would neuer be for it is vnlikely the Lord should suffer the body of so blessed a Saint to be defiled at all by the diuell especially after his death Moreouer how should the death of the godly be iustly termed that long lasting sleepe wherein by the ordinance of God their bodies must rest till the generall iudgement if the diuell hath power to awaken and to raise them vp at his pleasure yea and how can the faith of the godly concerning the continuance of their bodies in the dust of the earth be a certaine faith if the diuell can essentially assume their said bodies from the earth at his pleasure Briefly how is it certaine that death doth dissolue our bodies from sâ—ne and corruption and that the blessed which die in the Lord do cease from their labours if the diuel hath power to raise vp our bodies at pleasure and can cause them to labour afresh and vse them as fit instruments in his diuellish and sinfull proceedings And therefore doe cease for shame to hold any longer that it was the diuell in Samuels body who appeared to Saul Lycanthropus If it was not the very true and essentiall body of Samuell in deed what was it I pray you that appeared to Saul Orthodoxus I will tell you what some fathers affirme concerning this matter lesus Syrach lustinus Martyr Tertullian Ambrose and Ierome they do euery of them very confidently conclude that it was not the very true body of Samuell in deed which appeared to Saul but onely a meere phantasie deceite and illusion of satan for the better effecting of his tyrannous purpose intended to Saul whom he knew the Lord had reiected Yea the very decretals also doe flatly determine that it was not Samuels body at all but some ghost or fantasie deceitfully offered to Saule by satan his diuellish deuise There be others againe who doe as considently hold that it was Samuell himselfe miraculously raised vp by the power of God of very purpose to intercept the witches entent who went about to raise vp a diuell in Samuels likenesse by such meanes to satisfie Saul his importunate and earnest desire But this her purpose say they was preuented by God who refusing to haue the truth of that accident deliuered by satan did therefore extra ordinarily and miraculously raise vp Samuel to discouer the truth of the matter to Saul Briefly there be others who doe verily thinke it was neither the diuell alone nor Samuel alone neither yet the diuell and Samuel together nor any phantasie ghost or other illusion of Satan but a meere cosinage and a cosining tricke of the witch at Endor Who pretending an absolute power to haue raised vp whomsoeuer Saul should haue named vnto her neither did nor possible could cause any visible apparition at all but onely iuggled with Saul him selfe he being without and she close in her Cel or playing some legerdemaine at the least behinde a cloth no sensible vision appearing at all to the King Thus then hauing briefely deliuered mens seuerall opinions concerning this point you may deliberately conferre them with that which is spoken before and thereupon imbrace which pleaseth you best Pneumatomachus Good sir giue vs your owne censure concerning these sundrie opinions of men Orthodoxus I neither dare nor will vndertake the censuring of anie Onely if you simplie desire to heare what my selfe in an onely regard of our question do esteeme of their iudgements then this I must tell you concerning the first opinion Namely that howsoeuer it be granted for truth it serues not your turne for it denies the apparition to be Samuell in deed but rather a meere illusion of Satan Touching the second it is that you know which I argue against and therefore by their leaues I dissent from the same till that which I haue said be considerately answered As for the last howsoeuer it be new and therefore may haply seeme strange vnto some yet if your selues without preiudice and with a single respect to the truth would but deliberately peruse that priuileged discourse to the full you might happily perceiue it a verie probable opinion how pregnant soeuer in proofe Philologus Nay that opinion I disclaime aboue all the rest for it denieth there was any apparition at all whereas the text saith plainely that Saul knew it was Samuell and bowed himselfe Is it likelie that Saul would bowe vnto nothing Orthodoxus He bowed to as much as he sawe which was nothing at all as may easely appeere if you but carefully examine the confused conference betweene him and the Witch For saith shee being labouring alone in her Cell oh thou hast surely deceiued me for thou art Saul which she might and did know verie well howsoeuer she dissembled the same for the present Well go to saith Saul be not afraid for what seest thou As if he should say I my selfe do see nothing as yet that thou needest to feare O yes saith the Witch I see Gods ascending vp out of the earth as though she had brought vp a number of dead saints I do not yet behold any saith Saul but go to what fashion is he of for I my selfe see no fashion of any appearance Yes saith the Witch an old man commeth vp lapt in a mantell As though either Samuel had beene buried before in his mantel or the diuell he had had his Weauers and Tailers at hand to haue wrought him a new one vpon the sodaine Well nowe saith the text Saul knew it was Samuel that is by this her description he thought Samuel had appeared to her although he sawe nothing himselfe and thereupon he bowed to a phantasied Samuel Lycanthropus But sir if nothing appeared in truth how then was the conference afterwards performed to Saul Orthodoxus That was cunningly deliuered by the Witch alone in her Cell she being a cunning Ventriloquist as all Pythonistes are who can very hideously speake in the bottome of their bellies with an hollow counterfeit voice and therein by practise she was verie expert Philologus Lycanthropus we verily thought this last reason would haue striken all dead but now being come to the rifling I perceiue
assuming of bodies to the transforming of bodies your store then I perceiue is not great and it seemes you are almost drawen dry Howbeit because the handling of this point will craue a large discourse Let vs therefore breake off for the present And hauing with some small pittance refreshed our selues then wil we conferre hereof to the full til dinner be readie if you like of the offer Pneumatomachus Sir we like whatsoeuer you feele best for your selfe and therefore respect your owne health and we three in the meane time will repaire to our Innes and after will meet you afresh Orthodoxus Nay surely as we haue iointly ioyned together in spirituall repast so will we not sunder our selues in our corporall sustenance all the while our controuersie continueth And therefore if you doe like the thinne diet of schollers let vs in Gods name goe all together Philologus It is much to troublesome vnto you and chargeable both but sith you wil haue it so we will all iontly attend on your person Orthodoxus Let vs then arise and depart The end of the fourth Dialogue The fifth Dialogue THE ARGVMENT Whether Spirits and Diuels can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall bodie And how those places of Scripture are to be taken which manie produce for that purpose The speakers names PHILOLOGVS LYCANTHROPVS PNEVMATOMACHVS PHYSIOLOGVS ORTHODOXVS EXORCISTES Orthodoxus SIth nature by the good blessing of God is something refreshed let vs now for a while keepe close in my parlour with ful purpose to proceede in our conference till dinner be ready and then after walke forth in the aire to recreate our spirits Physiologus With very good will and therefore linger not the time but go an end in your purpose Orthodoxus Goe to then Lycanthropus repeate your argument Lycanthropus I repeate it thus Spirits and diuels they can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall body therefore they can also essentially enter into the possessed mans body Orthodoxus Proue your antecedent Lycanthropus What sir do you flatly denie that the diuell can essentially transforme himselfe into what bodie he please I am fully resolued to hold this point whatsoeuer be said to the contrarie Orthodoxus Your vnreasonable resolution is vnto vs no reasonable conclusion neither is the question betweene vs what you wil hold but what you are able to prooue concerning this point And albeit I doubt nothing at al but that you for your owne part will hold verie much till it comes to the pinch yet we hope you will change your purpose if once you be made to perceiue that none but your selfe are of this opinion Lycanthropus Yes sir all the world I am sure iumpes pat with me in this point and verie certeine I am I shall gaine your consent to the same in the end Orthodoxus Howsoeuer you seeme confident in the common consent of the world your gaine I assure you is not like to be great by any such a supposed grant as you haplie imagine from me Lycanthropus Will you not grant that diuels may essentially transforme themselues into what bodies they please Physiologus Master Orthodoxus let me answere this point if you please Come on Lycanthropus what is the thing you would haue granted vnto you Lycanthropus Why this namely that diuels may essentially transforme themselues into a true naturall bodie Physiologus Such a grant we may yeeld you at no hand because euen Philosophie her selfe is flat opposite to it who will neuer admit any such a confused participation of essentiall formes For as essence it selfe is impartible and vndeuidable or rather a certaine incommunicable and singular matter so surely the essence and vnitie of things being preserued intier essentiall formes they cannot possiblie be cnumōicated transferred or passed ouer from that substance it selfe whereof they are formes into any other substance or matter to giue the same also an essentiall forme Because not onely the constituting forming or framing but euen also the destruction of substances doth essentially arise from the forme it selfe And looke whereunto there is giuen a forme conuenient and proportionable to one onely essence thereunto also must necessarily be giuen an vndoubted true essence Because a proper forme is the principall part of essence yea and as some learned Philosophers doe flatly affirme it is the whole essence or nature of the thing it selfe And therefore if spirits and diuels be at any time essentially transformed into men then do they foorthwith cease for that time to be spirits and diuels and may truely be said to be men Lycanthropus I doe not well conceiue your meaning Physiologus I will further explaine it thus If there be any such essentiall transforming of spirits and diuels into men as your selfe doth imagine then vndoubtedly that selfe same essentiall transformation it is either according to the body alone or according to the body and soule together If according to the body alone then that selfe same transformed body it should at one and the selfe same time become both the body of a man and the body of a diuell which were to to absurde to imagine If according to the body and soule together then either the whole man both body soule must be essentially transformed into the very essence and nature of a diuell or the diuell he must needes be essentially transformed into the very naturall body and soule of a man at the least which none but mad-men will euer affirme Againe if that essentiall transformation be effected according to the body alone then howsoeuer that selfe same body be not for the present the body of a man but is wholy transformed into the very essence and nature of a diuell yet the soule of that man must either be forced to forsake his owne body and so bring present death to the body it selfe because death is nothing else but the dissolution of soule and bodie or else the same soule it must necessarily passe from out of it owne body into the very essence of a diuell and so by consequence there must needes be a meere confusion of spirituall substances or two essentiall formes in one and the selfe same body at once which were absurde to auouch and vtterly impossible by any created power to be euer effected Lycanthropus Let Phylosophie be opposite or what she will very certaine I am the diuell can essentially transforme him selfe into any true naturall body Physiologus What man will you in deed oppose your selfe to true Phylosophie then I perceiue you respect not at all the operations and powers of nature But goe to let master Orthodoxus heare what one reason you haue in true diuinitie to mannage your said resolution Lycanthropus What one reason quoth you why man the diuell he can essentially transforme him selfe into an Angell of light therefore how much more into any true naturall body Orthodoxus You are mightily mis-led herein by mistaking the word metaschemarizetai That is to say he transmuted transfashioned
man and euery liuing thing with their proper nature substance forme constitution qualities and gifts and directeth their wils faculties and powers accordingly so hath he alotted to spirituall creatures their owne substance and properties seuerall alone to themselues and appointed them their lawes and limits beyond which they cannot possiblie passe the bredth of an haire And therefore as it is absolutely against the ordinance of God that I should flie like a bird or swim like a fish or creepe like a worme or become another creature in forme to that which by nature I am insomuch as if God would giue me leaue I could not possiblie do it for it were flat contrarie to his owne ordinance and decree yea and euen opposite to the naturall constitution of that bodie which he hath created and giuen me so is it vndoubtedly incredible that either a diuell should be essentially transformed into a man or a man substantially turned into a diuell or that either of both should reallie change themselues into any other nature substance forme constitution qualitie or gift then those verie same which they haue by creation yea or that they should possiblie applie those which they haue to any other end or vse then that which God himselfe naturally decreed and directeth them vnto Otherwise either God should be contrarie to himselfe which is farre from him or else those things must needs be supernaturall and so a true miracle in whom soeuer Neither yet is Gods omnipotencie hereby qualified but the diuell his impotencie is rather manifested and more liuely declared Who hath no further power then that which God from the beginning hath appointed vnto him and the same also consonant to his owne nature and substance The diuell I confesse may well be restrained from his naturall faculties power and will but being Gods minister beyond the same he cannot possiblie passe the bredth of a pinne neither yet any other waies or further imploie his endeuour then onely in that verie worke which the Lord from the beginning hath enabled him to do Which is that he being himselfe a spirit may vitiate and corrupt the spirit of man and therein also he is diligent enough howbeit for the doing heereof he cannot substantially alter his forme at all Philologus I haue heard many very confidently affirme that the diuell hath appeared to them in the likenes of a man a cocke a catte or a dogge Orthodoxus Yea but how are those confident affirmers certeinly sure that the man the cocke the catte or the dogge whose likenesse they sawe in appearance was indeed and in truth either spirit or diuell and not rather the Legerdemaine of some coniuring Priest or cousening companion For if a diuell can indeed essentially transforme himselfe into the likenes figure or shape of a man a dogge a catte a mouse or a toade whie can he not also transforme a man a dogge a catte a mouse or a toade into the likenes figure or shape of a diuell sith there is a like reason and possibilitie of both Howbeit we may not beleeue saith Augustine that a mans bodie can by any Arte or power of the diuell be transformed into the lineaments of a beast much lesse into the forme or substance of any infernall diuell Besides that if spirits and diuels may possiblie transforme themselues into an humane bodie then could not Christ his argument propounded to Thomas be currant good where he saith behold my hands and side and put thy finger into my hands and thrust thy hand into my side and be not faithlesse but faithfull All this how truely soeuer deliuered by Christ could neuer in truth haue satisfied Thomas concerning the resurrection of Christ if it be true in deed that diuels can truely transforme themselues into true naturall bodies For Thomas remayning vnsatisfied might boldly haue answered thus oh sir why doe you will me to handle your hands and sides that is no certeine argument to demonstrate vnto me your rising againe from the dead Because spirits and diuels you know they can truely transforme themselues into true naturall bodies and therefore notwithstanding such an experimentall or sensible knowledge you may rather be some transformed spirit or ghost to deceiue me then my Lord and my God which came for to saue me Thus then you see that if these essentiall transformations be concluded for currāt Thomas his incredulity for any thing heard might passe vncontroled Exorcistes Though the diuell cannot alter his forme substantially yet may he change the same in shape or figure I doubt not and such a distinction hath Bodin saying The essentiall forme namely reason it selfe is not changed but onely the outward shape or figure Orthodoxus Bodin he strikes it dead no doubt For here he maketh the diuell a cunning iugler who by casting a miste before mens eies can giue to spirituall substances what outward figure and forme he please Howbeit till Bodin be able to demonstrate truely vnto vs that the diuell may haue power to alter essentially a spirituall substance we will neuer acknowledge any possibilitie of transforming their shape or formes at all Exorcistes Well yet Augustine subscribes to such transformations Orthodoxus He doth I confesse Yea those and other like matters are so common in many of his workes as I am driuen to suspect they were rather cunningly foisted in by some cunning popish coniuring Priest to credit his cosening practises then carefully inserted by Augustine himselfe to set foorth a truth Howsoeuer I say with Cardanus that how many of those transformations Augustine saith he hath seene with his eies so many I am content for the reuerence I owe him to giue credit vnto All the rest I account but Cabalisticall conceits and no better in effect then foolish toies to mocke an Ape Yea and so much the rather because Augustine himselfe affirmeth those transformations to be but phantasticall and that they are not according to the veritie but according onely to their outward appearance Lycanthropus Yet such then according to outward appearance Orthodoxus I alow no such supposed appearances made by diuels because I find no such power giuen them by God in all the scriptures Besides that if we admit that diuels may take onely but formes or shapes vpon them though not the very substance it selfe of a true naturall body yet then also Christ his argument made else where vnto his disciples had not been sound in euery point saying thus handle me and see for a spirit it hath not flesh and bones as you see me to haue Setting downe visibility and palpability as things opposite to the nature of spirits and diuels reducing his disciples in discerning of spirits to the iudgment first of their eies and then next of their hands and arguing thus Spirits can neither be seen nor felt but I may both be seen and felt therefore I am no spirit And then next he reasoneth a disparatis thus A spirit it hath
the forenamed places or any where else doe so much as once mention the same and therefore the perpetuitie of actual possession is no such part of Gods counsell as may any waie concerne the sauing or killing of soules Exorcistes Though the perpetuitie of actuall possessions be not plainely expressed yet why may not the same be couertly implied in some part of the Scriptures Orthodoxus Because this your supposed may be cannot certeinly conclude from thence any such supposed implication at all and I argue further against you thus If the perpetuitie of actual pssession be either expreslie or implicatiuely conteined in the Worde then also the miraculous faith for suppressing such actuall possession is either expresly or implicatiuely contained in the word but the latter is vndoubtedly false and therefore also the first Exorcistes Why may not the miraculous faith be auouched perpetuall Orthodoxus Because the same was but temporarie and had onely her powerfull continuance so farre foorth as seemed good to the Lord for an extraordinarie sealing vp and confirming of the word with miracles folowing But that vse hath vndoubtedly ceased long since and therefore also the miraculous faith attending such temporarie vse is vndoubtedly ceased Howbeit of this more at large when wee come to handle the meanes of subduing the extraordinarie power of the diuell In the meane time I argue the matter against you thus All true Christian churches and the soundest Diuines in our daies doe generallie conclude a finall discontinuance of the miraculous faith in these daies of the Gospell and therefore by consequence the vndoubted determination of the diuell his extraordinarie power of actuall possession Exorcistes Do you then verie confidently denie all power to the diuell in these daies of the Gospell Orthodoxus I onely impugne his supposed extraordinarie power for the perpetuitie of actuall possession I denie not his power of obsession at all Exorcistes Why what vnderstand you by his power of obsession Orthodoxus This question I assure you is verie fitly propounded for hauing hitherto handled at large the diuell his power of actuall possession it remaineth now to entreate a little of his power of obsession wherein we need not to be tedious the same being apparantly euident and generally confessed of all men Now therefore by the diuell his power of obsession I do heere vnderstand some certeine predeterminate abilitie facultie or inclination of his spirituall nature for the more powerfull enabling of his restlesse endeuours and insatiable desires to worke our daily destruction wherein he eftsoones assaulteth circumuenteth encloseth inuironeth besiegeth the seruants of God a fresh with a purposed mind to deuoure them quite were they not very mightilie protected by an inuincible power of the Lord. And this his said power of obsession consisteth especially either in an outward assaulting and vexing or in an inward suggesting and tempting at least Lycanthropus What meane you by an outward assaulting and vexing Orthodoxus I vnderstand thereby all those their externall allurements incumbrances molestations and griefes whatsoeuer wherewith the whole nature of man is wonderfully distressed disquieted and vexed Partly by worldly auctoritie examples promises compulsions profites pleasures and so foorth and partlie by fleshly affections inclinations dispositions delights attempts and carnall practises whatsoeuer they be Philologus And what meane you by inward suggestings and temptings Orthodoxus I vnderstand thereby all those the internall allurements of satan whatsoeuer wherewith he endeuoureth to drawe mens mindes from their dutifull obedience to God by daring or thrusting into them all trecherous and diuelish deuises yea and by kindling within them all vngodly motions affections lustes and desires Nowe for the speedie effecting hereof the diuels they become lying spirits in the mouthes of false Prophets they worke lying woonders in all deceaueablenes of vnrighteousnes they buffet mens minds with fearefull tentations they endeuour to fifâ—e and winow their soules as men winow wheate they make men vncleane and replenish their hartes with filthie pollutions that thereby they might draw them into open dissimulation with the holy Ghost they vexe and torment men within and without yea which more is they so dangerously â—ncumber mens iudgements through the Law of their members rebelling against the Law of their mindes as eftsoones they enforce them to distrust their happie deliuerance yea and to desire their present dissolution to be presently with Christ himselfe Loe thus much in effect for the diuel his power of obsession Lycanthropus This sir I assure yon is a woonderfull power and such as should foorthwith awaken our harts to a continuall watchfulnes But tell vs further I pray you by what meanes the diuell especially effecteth these matters Orthodoxus Although the diuel hath vndoubtedly innumerable meanes to accomplish his villanies yet surely the most principall for the timely effecting of his power of obsession is an holding men fast in the ignorance of God That so all the while they doe carelesly continue in darkenes and sit still in the shadow of death the diuell might assault them eftsoones at his pleasure and come vpon them at vnawares to accomplish in them his mischieuous purposes Neither is this holding of men in palpable ignorance impossible for satan by the permission of God to effect Because the diuell himselfe being the God of this world and therefore of an admirable power be both can and doth purposely blindfold the minds of all infidels least at any time the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ the image of God should shine foorth vnto them That hauing so insnared and captiuated the men at his pleasure they might from thencefoorth walke on in vanitie of their mindes And which more is that their vnderstanding by this meanes being darkened they might through their owne ignorance and hardnes of hart become aliants strangers from the life of God and being past feeling might foorthwith giue ouer themselues vnto wantonnes to worke all manner of vncleannes yea euen with insatiable and greedie affections Exorcistes Wel sir. And how is it possible the diuel should accomplish these fearefull effects in any mans mind but by an actuall possession at least Orthodoxus Yes the diuell he wel may and doth easily effect all these with many other like fearefull effects onely by an actuall power without any actuall possession at all And this especially by depriuing the world of that eternall word of life which was giuen to enlighten mens soules He depriues the world of the word of life either by holding it altogether from them or otherwise by hindring the effectuall working power thereof at the least He holds the word altogether from men by forestalling and hindering the timely establishment of faithfull Preachers in euerie place Againe if he cannot possibly intercept the Preachers establishment then he endeuors eftsoones to hinder at least the affectuall working
no vndoubted true signes of any dispossessing of Satan But in all the adiurations which concerne the aforesaid examples there was no crying aloude no rending sore nor no leauing as dead therefore in all the adiurations which concerne the aforesaid examples there were no vndouted true signes of the dispossessing of satan Thus then it is very apparant you see by all the premisses that vnlesse you will purposely fall into palpable absurdities you may at no hand auouch that those cryings those rendings and tearings and that leauing for dead are the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan No you must rather perswade your selfe they were purposely reported for speciall and proper effects of that speciall and proper action of Christ and not considerately put downe for perpetuall and vndoubted true signes of all the actuall dispossessings of spirits and diuels in whomsoeuer Notwithstanding be it supposed which will neuer be prooued that your selfe did vndoubtedly driue foorth a diuel from the yoongman at Mahgnitton and that some cryings aloude some rendings sore and some leauing as dead were then also the speciall effects of that your supposed speciall action doe here tell vs I pray you after what speciall manner you effected the action Whether onely by meanes or by a miraculous manner Exorcistes Surely euen onely by meanes and not by any miraculous manner of working at all Physiologus Good Maister Orthodoxus let me argue this matter a little Come on Exorcistes doe you hold in good earnest that diuels may bee driuen foorth from men and that onelie by meanes Exorcistes I am very confident therein I assure you Physiologus Make your mind plaine before we proceede And tel me I pray you whether spirtts and diuels by very natural or corporall meanes may be truely dispossessed and driuen from men Exorcistes Yea euen by very naturall or corporall meanes Physiologus Why man spirits and diuels they are meere spirituall creatures But such is the proper condition of spirituall creatures that all corporall matters whatsoeuer they come short thereunto by many degrees and therefore we may boldly conclude that those corporall or sensible things can work nothing efficiently in spirits and diuels can offer no violence at all vnto them nor possibly expell them from any their actuall possessions Exorcistes Yes sir I am able to demonstrate this matter by an argument of comparison thus There is one and the selfesame condition of spirits and of liuing mens soules for they are both of them spirituall essences But euen by a meere corporall or sensible meanes may some violence be offered to liuing mens soules yea they may thereby eftsoones be separated quite from their bodies and therefore euen to spirits also by meanes of some corporall or sensible matter there may eftsoones some violence be offered and they also may be expelled quite from their actuall possessions in man Physiologus Your argument of comparison it consisteth not of such pares as are equally alike in euerie respect no it halteth downe right in that selfesame point wherupon it is more especially grounded and therefore it enforceth no necessarie conclusion vpon vs at all For the condition of spirits and of liuing mens soules howsoeuer alike in spirituall essence it is vtterly vnlike respecting the bodies whereupon they both worke Soules they are properly conioyned to their owne proper bodies as the verie first essential forme thereof appointed by God howbeit spirits not by any proprietie but by vsurpation rather they are onely actually there as the afflictors or tormentors permitted by God So then for those former respects the soules of liuing men doe necessarily require in those their owne bodies some such certaine dispositions and qualities as the diuels themselues they being no true essentiall formes of those bodies require not at all And therefore spirits or diuels they may actually afflict and torment those selfesame bodies of men how vnfitly soeuer they finde them whereas the soules of men vnlesse those their said bodies be aptly proportioned and fitted thereto they cannot informe them at all Exorcistes Sir howsoeuer you enforce a disparison betweene spirites and soules concerning especially their dealings with bodies and thereby would frustrate the force of my argument verie certeine I am that spirits or diuels they may be driuen foorth from mens bodies and that onely by meanes Physiologus But by what meanes I beseech you whether by an vncreated or by a created meanes Exorcistes Not by any vncreated meanes at all For how can I possiblie practise that thing which is either vncreated or not existing in nature Physiologus Then you do flatly conclude that spirites or diuels they may actually be dispossessed euen by a created or meere naturall meanes Exorcistes Yea so much I flatly conclude Physiologus This then I must tell you for certeine that you doe very fondly conclude you wotte not what For this is vndoubtedly true that no created or naturall meanes whatsoeuer may efficiently extend themselues to any such supernaturall actions as do anie way concerne the dispossessing of diuels Because all such supernaturall actions they proceed not at all from any power of nature but from the onely power of obedience By the onely efficacie of which obedientiall power euen any thing of euerie thing may easilie be effected although yet in an onely respect of the mightie Iehouah himselfe the sole and onely efficient thereof For albeit the Saints of the Lord namely Moses and manie others are saide to effect supernaturall actions yet therein wee must rightly vnderstand that onely the Lord alone he workes that by his Saints which he workes by himselfe And therefore in saying as you do that spirits or diuels they may be dispossessed from men by any created or naturall meanes you do therein very ignorantly auouch you wot not well what Exorcistes Yes sir I wot well what I say and am able to demonstrate the truth thereof by many examples Physiologus Let vs heare your examples which make for this matter Exorcistes With verie good will First therefore Iosephus verie plainely reporteth that when Titus and Vespasian besieged Ierusalem there was an Exorciste that time in the hoste who by a certeine stone in a ring deliuered many that were possessed of Satan Moreouer Eleazar the Hebrew as the said Iosephus recordeth he vsed certeine Exorcismes which were inuented and made by Salomon for the expelling of spirits and diuels namely ringes rootes herbes and such other like sensible matters But the stone in the ringe those rootes and those herbes they were onely created and meere naturall meanes therefore some onely created and meere naturall meanes it hath and may haue in it selfe an actuall power for the dispossessing of spirits and diuels Physiologus Why doe you not also alleage that which the said Iosephus and Aelianus also reporteth concerning the herbe Cynospastus being otherwaies called Aglaphotis which hath they say a certeine speciall operation for the powerfull expelling of spirits and
diuels for thereby also you might haue borne vs in hand that herbes in times past haue beene workers of miracles Exorcistes Well sir howsoeuer you would scoffe out the matter doe answere Iosephus Physiologus I will Iosephus he hath heretofore so often beene tainted in matters of more waightie importance as we haue the lesse cause to credit his pen in these his senseles reports Besides that let this which he writes concerning these tryfling toyes be esteemed for certeine truthes I meane that some such dipossessions were effected in some outward appearance yet Wierus he flatly affirmes that Iosephus the Iewe Vespasian the Ethnicke and Eleazar also the Hebrew were euerie of them woonderfully bewitched with the iuggling sleights of the diuell Who for the present did purposely pretend the giuing of place to an imagined vertue in ringes in rootes in herbes and in stones that by meanes of such sundrie his illusions those persons themselues might the more easily be brought to repose greater confidence in those tryfling toies then in the almighty Iehouah the onely disposer and guider of all things And for the furthering of this his diuellish endeuour the better he brought it also to passe that all those his said Exorcismes they were very confidently fathered vpon Salomon himselfe in an especiall regard of his singular wisedome that by such legerdemaines he might winne the more credit to all those his sprituall illusions But seeing it is certeinly true that these created instruments could not effectiuely extend foorth themselues to the powerfull effecting of any such supernaturall effects what man will bee so wilfully madde as once to beleeue or once to esteeme those his tryfling tales for infallible truthes Againe sith Salomon the verie mirrour it selfe of heauenly wisedome being vsually accustomed as the Hebrewes report to dispute of trees and of herbes from the Cedar of Libanon to the verie Hysope it selfe and which more is of beastes of fowles of creeping things and of fishes in the knowledge of all which there lieth hid from the world much secret Philosophie for the admirable effecting of such admirable matters by meere naturall meanes If Salomon I say disputing these matters hath left no one monument at all of any such admirable skill throughout the whole scriptures recorded what wight is so sottishly minded as once to imagine that wise Salomon himselfe was the first inuentour of anie such palpable fooleries or that he was the author of any such Magicall enchantments and superstitious Exorcismes as are so iniuriouslie or rather so blasphemouslie fathered vpon him Exorcistes How basely soeuer you esteeme of these meanes which Iosephus reportes yet what say you to that which good Tobie declareth concerning the perfume made with the fishes liuer which expelled the diuell from out of Sarah the daughter of Raguel That perfume you know it was only a created and meere naturall meanes therefore an onely created and meere naturall meanes it hath and may haue in it an actuall power for the dispossessing of spirits and diuels Physiologus The booke of Tobiah it is not Canonicall and therefore not authenticall enough to conuince or confirme any matter in controuersie But be it supposed Canonicall yet thus then I answere the same Namely that the forenamed perfume so made of the liuer it might lessen in some sort the present affliction though not vtterly expell the diuell his possession For that perfume it might be some physicall meanes to drie vp or correct some bad disposition in Sarahs braine arising naturally from the variable disposition of the moone it selfe ouer moistning her braine and making it more apt for the present apprehending of satan his entended afflictions Which saide badde humour of hers being by that meanes something alaied the affliction withall it would something abate howbeit vtterly to expell the diuell his possession it could haue no possible power at all No that supernaturall action if any such were was supernaturally effected by a supernaturall power in the Angell Who taught not Tobiah by any force of that perfume to expell the diuell but tolde him rather before that so soone as the perfume was kindled the diuell should foorthwith be expelled Not that the perfume it selfe should effectiuely procure any such supernaturall action but be rather an apparant demonstration of the admirable effecting thereof For euen as it is not vndoubtedly necessarie that the washing of my handes shoulde be an efficient cause of the moones ecclipse though the moone it selfe at the verie time of my washing be vndoubtedly ecclipsed so neither was it necessarie that the forenamed perfume should effectiuely procure of it selfe that selfesame supposed dispossession of satan howsoeuer satan at the verie instant it selfe was truelie dispossessed So then the Angell he taught by that perfume what should then come to passe not rendring any one efficient cause why it so came to passe As also the verie text you alledge it telleth vs not that the perfume expelled the power of the diuell but that it was rather the Angell himselfe who cast the diuell foorth at the verie same time the perfume was kindled Now then what was it I pray you that expelled the diuel the perfume which rose vp from the liuer no but the Angell that bound him And how did he binde him by any effectuall meanes of that perfume No but at the verie same season the liuer perfumed the Angell he bound the diuell in the vtmost borders of Egypt Giuing Tobiah that selfesame perfume as an infallible signe but no effectuall cause at all of Sarah her happie deliuerance Thus then you plainely perceiue that no created or meere naturall meanes â—ath any efficient power of it selfe for the actuall dispossessing of spirits and diuels Exorcistes Wel sir howsoeuer you may iustly challenge the authority of Tobiah for not being authenticall I haue one example from the canonicall scriptures to confirme the infallible truth of that which I hold herein Namely that admirable action of Dauid who onely but plaied with his harp and the euil spirit of the Lord departed from Saul Howbeit that harpe and that playing of Dauid thereon were onely created and meer naturall meanes therefore some onely created or meere naturall meanes may haue in it naturally an effectuall power for the dispossessing of spirits and diuels Physiologus In deed if spirits and diuels had their peculier bodies naturally vnited vnto them as Apuleius affirmeth saying that diuels are liuing creatures constituted of airy bodies of passible minds and in time also eternall then there would be no inconuenience at all to hold that spirits and diuels by a melodious sound or some other such sensible meanes might be altered in their actions and expelled from men For the Platonists they flatly affirme that diuels are a certeine meane betweene the intellectuall spirits who are of a pure spirituall substance and between men hauing bodies constituted of the foure elements Howbeit because the sacred scriptures and
more especially procure an apparant effect of spirituall graces to shinefoorth in some soule where they shone not before therefore the spirit of God may then be said truely to enter into such a soule because the efficacie thereof doth more effectuallie and more apparently breake foorth to the view of our eies And euen after this selfesame sort I assure you we are to vnderstand in this place the vertue going foorth from our Sauiour Christ to the curing of others because the Diuine vertue it selfe perpetually existing in the person of Christ at that verie same instant did more effectually cause health in those the diseased parties So then howsoeuer this place may serue verie fitly to shew foorth the efficacie of Christ his vertue in curing diseases it helpeth nothing at all to vnderprop your pestilent opinion of a vertue or power essentially proceeding from your owne or anie mans person for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels Exorcistes But tell me I beseech you was that miraculous curing of people by those selfesame touchings of Christ a worke of his Diuinitie onely or of his humanitie also Physiologus This I must shew you for certeine that Leo himselfe verie flatlie affirmeth all the miraculous actions effected by Christ to be effectually wrought by his Diuinitie onely For seeing saith Leo there are vndoubtedly in the person of Christ two distinct or essentiall natures the one Diuine which shineth foorth by extraordinarie miraculous actions and the other humane which doth solely vndergoe all offered iniuries It foloweth necessarily that looke how the humane nature applieth it selfe to the vndergoing of iniuries euen so the diuine nature disposeth it selfe to the effecting of myracles But the humane nature alone applieth it selfe to the vndergoing of iniuries because to suffer at all is a thing vtterly opposite to the nature of the Deitie therefore the Diuine nature alone it likewise disposeth it selfe to the admirable effecting of miracles because the effecting of such surmounteth the compasse of Christ his created humanitie according to that of Dauid Ichouah alone doth wondrous things Againe the miraculous actions they do highlie exceed the whole power of any created nature But the humanitie of Christ it is onely a created nature therefore the humanitie of Christ of it selfe can effect no miraculous actions Lycanthropus This I suppose is vndoubtedly true and without contradiction at all Physiologus It is so I confesse being warely and wiâ—ely vnderstood else there may lie some exceptions against it For the comparison it holdes verie fitlie in this one respect Namely that as the humanitie of Christ alone was a reason or cause of his vndergoing the offred iniuries so surely the Diuinitie of Christ alone it was also the reason or primarie efficient cause of his effecting the miraculous actions Howbeit that selfesame comparison it holdeth not so currantly in a second respect For howsoeuer it is no waies repugnant vnto the humanitie of Christ to be also an effector of miracles instrumentally yet is it quite contrarie vnto the Diuinitie of Christ to suffer afflictions in any respect I meane either principally or instrumentally because the diuinitie it selfe is wholy impassible Although yet I dare not denie but that in an onely especiall regard of the supposed identitie or communicable proprieties of both natures in the one person of Christ that which is truely said of the one may be as true said of the other For first respecting the whole person of Christ it is not vntruely said that the Godhead did suffer againe respecting the whole person of Christ it may as truely be said that this childe meaning Christ created the heauens Because Christ himselfe is that eternall word of the father whereby all things in the beginning were created and made And therefore that sentence of Dauid who saith that Iehouah alone doth wondrous things it is not so to be taken as happily you would haue vs imagine For the word alone in that place it excludes not the humanitie of Christ as any instrumentall but onely as a meere principall agent in working woondrous things Exorcistes But sir notwithstanding this your cunning distinction it is verie apparant that euen the humanitie of Christ alone as a principall agent it selfe did worke sundrie miraculous cures in sundrie diseased persons for so many as but touched his bodie yea or the hemme of his garment they were presently healed Now then if those selfesame touchings of Christ did not effectually worke in those the aforesaid cures it must necessarily follow that Christ did something in vaine But Christ he did nothing in vaine therefore euen those the aforesaid touchings themselues did effectually worke in those the forenamed cures Howbeit those sensible touchings they were onely meere actions of Christ his humanitie therefore Christ his onely humanitie did principally and effectually worke in all those the forenamed cures which succeeded those sensible touchings Physiologus Christ he healed so many as handled him spiritually by the apprehension of faith not all such as onely but touched him corporally by corporall sense Otherwise if onely a sensible touching of Christ or his garments had principally and effectually beene able of it selfe alone to worke those selfesame cures then Iudas that kissed him the souldiers that stripped him the high priests seruants that smote him yea and the rest of the people that thronged and pressed vpon him had beene euerie of them also effectually amended of all their maladies Howbeit saith Beda onely those men alone doe truely and effectually handle our Sauiour Christ who spiritually receiue his faith and his loue in their harts So then for a more plaine vnderstanding of our matters in question it shall not be amisse to proceed more exactly vnto a more orderly consideration of all miraculous actions and this also in a double respect Namely either principally or instrumentally First if we take due consideration of the working of miracles principallie I meane according to their primarie or proper efficient then are we bound without contradiction to beleeue and confesse that all miraculous and supernaturall actions do highly surmount the whole power of euerie creature whatsoeuer and are onely peculiar to Iehouah himselfe who alone doth woondrous things Yea this is vndoubtedly true that no one supernaturall action how simple soeuer in shew may possiblie be effected by any other power principally but by the onely supereminent power of El-shaddai alone I meane that al-sufficient omnipotent and almightie Iehouah himselfe Who is an vnmeasurable mountaine of goodnes the onely true cherishing dug that is neuer drawne drie yea and who only accomplisheth whatsoeuer he wils in heauen and in earth at what time in what place and after what maner best pleaseth himselfe Howbeit if we respect the working of miraculous actions but instrumentally I meane onely according to their secondary or instrumentall cause then must we in
you one reason for this once in stead of a thousand thus The working of miracles is ceased long since and therefore also the miraculous faith Exorcistes Why sir to remooue the diuell by prayer and fasting is no miracle at all Physiologus Maister Orthodoxus doe rest you a little and let me argue this point Come on Exorcistes and answere directly Is the driuing out of diuels by prayer and fasting no miracle I pray you Exorcistes It is no miracle at all Physiologus Well then I perceiue we are of necessitie enforced to declare plainely vnto you first what a miracle is with the sundrie kinds of miracles and then next we will exactly consider of your action at Mahgnitton to see whether the same pretended to be done by your selfe as it was may truely be termed a miracle in any respect Lycanthropus I pray you proceed in your purposed course Physiologus With very good will Wherein first for the word miracle it selfe we haue to consider that that thing which we commonly account a miracle is named of the Hebrewes niphlah I meane a most admirable or a merueilous matter Or rather niphlath if you will that is a woonder quite hid from our eies And therefore all those obscure and admirable matters which do highly surmount the reach of our reason they are commonly called niphlaoth that is very strange and admirable actions Or rather miphleoth I meane such hidden and such secrete occurrents as cannot possibly be conceiued by the narrow compasse of our common and naturall sense They do fitly proceed from the radicall word palah or niplah which is as much to say as to be vailed obscured quite hidden difficult and very highly surmounting the shallow reach of our reason Because euery miraculous action is alwaies some such kind of matter as is ouer much vailed obscured hidden and difficult beyond our common capacity yea and such an vnwonted occurrent as seemeth most admirable and very hard in our present apprehension In like manner the Gretians they entitle it thauma that is a merueile or woonder And it commeth of the verbe thaumazo which signifieth to admire to merueile or woonder The latines they call it miraculum quasi occuli mirum the woonder of the eie for that it seemeth a merueile in euery mans eies and therefore they do oftentimes expound it a prodigious a monstrous or an admirable matter for that the Lord by such an vmvoonted meanes doth extraordinarily foreshew some admirable accident quite contrary to the accustomed order of nature her selfe So then by all the premisses it is verie apparant what a miracle is Namely it is by the extraordinary working power of the Lord some such vnaccustomed action as verie highly surmounteth the whole faculty of euerie created nature and is therefore thus admirablie effected to the end it might the rather affect the beholders with an admiration thereof might the more certeinly confirme their faith in the truth of the worde In this definition we may easily discerne all the essentiall causes of myracles For first the efficient cause of euerie such admirable action is an extraordinarie working power of the Lord. The materiall cause are all those admirable actions themselues The formall cause is the vnaccustomed maner of effecting those actions The finall cause is partly to affect the beholders with some serious admiration concerning the omnipotent power and wisedome of God and partly to confirme their faith in the truth of the worde By all which you may plainely perceiue what a miracle is Lycanthropus Verie true but what be the sundrie kindes of miracles Physiologus They are those variable and differing sorts of admirable actions which both may be and are diuersly discerned according to their diuers and sundrie conditions And these sundrie sorts of miracles are twofold namely either true or false miracles Philologus Which are the true miracles Physiologus They are al those admirable actions whatsoeuer which both for their matter and forme are rightly and truely effected and which also are wholie directed to their certeine determined endes namely the glorie of God and credit of his glorious Gospell And such are all those admirable actions how sielie soeuer in shew which were miraculously accomplished either immediately by the Lord alone or mediately at least by his extraordinarie ministers Pneumatomachus Which are the false miracles Physiologus They are all those admirable matters in shew which either are not in deed and in truth the selfesame thing they seeme to portend or which else are effected not by any supernaturall power surmounting the reach of our reason but by some such naturall facultie of nature herselfe as is hidden and secret from the present apprehension of those that behold the same Yea and which also are eftsoones directed to some such specialpurpose or sinister end as is directly opposite to the glorie of God and the truth of the Gospell These later sorts of miraculous actions how admirable soeuer in sensible appearance they may without any extraordinarie helpe of the Lord be easily effected by Angels by diuets and expert persons euen onely thorough some hidden facultie of nature her selfe three manner of waies 1. For first verie certaine it is that Angels diuels and men expert in naturall philosophie hauing a deepe insight into the hidden secrets of nature and being thoroughly experienced in the powers thereof they may and can easily apply those saide natural powers to some such perexisting matter as hath in it selfe a naturall disposition to euerie such action entended For from the naturall coniunction of some such perexisting matter with some proffered efficients there will euen naturally succeed some such vndoubted effects as the partie procuring such naturall coniunction propounded before Yea and those also vpon the sudden and beyond the expectation of all the beholders therof which doth eftsoones enforce them to admire at such rare and vnwoonted euents For the diuell himselfe as also those experienced persons in natures secrets they doe verie well know that frogs wormes yea and also some serpents are easily engendred of some putrified matter perexisting in nature especially if there be added to euerie such putrified matter and of heat by such certaine degrees as is correspondent thereto Now then this the foresaid conioyning of putrified matter an actiue heat together being not verie difficult for diuels and for cogging companions to effect if they please they therefore eftsoones doe attempt the timely effecting thereof and all to circumuent and deceiue the beholders themselues Euen as did Iannes and Iambres the Egyptian sorcerers if Augustines iudgement be adiudged Canonicall 2 Secondly the diuell himselfe and so many besides as haue any insight at all into the secrets of nature they doe very well know that some sodaine commotion of the naturall spirits of bloud and of humours do mightily disturbe and distemper the bodies of men Insomuch as the imaginations the
either you accomplished no woonderfull action at al as touching any your supposed most admirable matters wrought at Mahgnitton or if as your selfe do affirme the same was truely and indeed a true woonder then was it also a woondrous worke I meane a true miracle howsoeuer you shelter the same Exorcistes It was onely a woonder but no woondrous worke as I told you before and onely because of the meanes For whatsoeuer is brought to passe by meanes that is no miracle because of the meanes be it neuer so woonderfull Physiologus But do you speake in good earnest Exorcistes Yea in verie good earnest Physiologus Then tell me what you esteeme of the turning of waters into bloud by Moses his rodde of the Egyptian frogges of the swarmes of lyce which came vpon man and beast of the Egyptian scabbes and botches by the sprinkling of ashes of the thunder and haile by the stretching out of Moses his hand of the Egyptian grashoppers ouerspredding the whole land of the palpable darkenesse throughout the whole land of Egypt of deuiding the red sea by the hand of Moses of the rocke that gushed out water by the stroke of the rodde of Elijah his making the bitter waters sweete by casting in salte of the curing of Naaman his leprosie by washing in the waters of Iorden of the swimming of iron by Elisha his meanes yea what shall we thinke of giuing sight to the blinde by a plaster of spettle and claie first tempered togither of helping to health by touching the hem of Christs garment of curing verie many by annointing with oyle by the shadow of Peter yea and by napkins brought to the sicke from the bodie of Paul In euerie of these actions there was vsed some meanes and yet you dare not denie but that they were euery of them miracles Exorcistes These were euery of them but dead or rather quite contrary meanes to the worke which was wrought and therefore whatsoeuer was brought to passe by such impotent meanes they were notwithstanding true miracles Howbeit praier and fasting being instituted of God to that work performed withall by the power of the spirit and hauing moreouer many promises annexed thereto it cannot possibly be but that with the orderly obseruation thereof there goeth some ordinary power for accomplishing the purpose pretended and therefore the casting out of diuels or the powerfull effecting of any other admirable matter by that speciall meanes is no woonderfull worke but a woonder as I told you before Physiologus And I told you likewise before that praier and fasting hath no power of it selfe to driue foorth a diuel yea you your owne selfe affirmed euen now that the whole efficacy of that woonderfull work dependeth wholly vpon the good blessing of God Without which the meanes it selfe though neuer so duely performed preuaileth nothing at all But to winck a while at these grosse ouersights doe tel me in good sadnesse whether the driuing out of the diuel by praier and fasting be any miracle at all Exorcistes It is then no miracle because of the meanes Physiologus If the onely vse of that meanes may make a flat nullity in miracles my meaning is if praier and fasting is of sufficient force to cause that miraculous works become no miracles and onely because of such meanes then tel me I pray you what you think of remoouing the egyptian frogs and lice by the praier of Moses of Israels preuailing against Ameleck of Elijah his reuiuing the widdow of Zarephthas sonne of Elisha his raising the Shunamits sonne vnto life of the admirable opening of his seruants eies yea what thinke you of the raising of Lazarus from death of Peter his restoring of Tabitha againe vnto life of the earthquake and shaking of the prison wherein Paul and Sylas were stocked of Paul his reuiuing of Eutychus of the curing of many by the praier of the elders These were all effected by praier you know were these therefore I pray you no miracles Moreouer what must we account of all the miraculous dispossessings of spirits and diuels in the primitiue church If because they were euery of them effected by praier and fasting they were therefore no miracles then it foloweth by necessarie consequence that there were neuer any actuall possessions nor dispossessions of diuels at anie time since the Apostles daies Because those dispossessions how admirable soeuer being effected by praier fasting they could be no miracles by your account in an onely respect of that meanes whereas the possessions and dispossessions of diuels notwithstanding that meanes they were alwaies reputed true miracles with the Church of God And therefore if your selfe did driue foorth a diuell at Mahgnitton by praier and fasting as you beare vs in hand then surely the same was not simplie a woonderfull worke but also a woonder I meane a true miracle notwithstanding anie such your supposed meanes Exorcistes If signes and woonders must euerie of them be esteemed true miracles indeed it foloweth then that not onely the false Christs of euerie age but Antichrist also himselfe may truely be said to accomplish true miracles because they also from time haue beene able to worke many strange and woondrous things Physiologus I told you before there were two sortes of miracles namely either trué or false miracles The first sort is when as a meere naturall matter is either restored or cured or wrought by the onely application of meere naturall meanes Howbeit those said naturall meanes either they are not altogither the same which we commonly vse or they are not vsed after the selfe-same manner and way After this manner the diuell the Egyptian sorcerers the false Christs yea and Antichrist also himselfe they haue done and may daily effect manie woonders And in an especiall regard of the strangenes thereof they also abusiuely and after a sort may be said to be workers of miracles because they accomplish such matters on the sodaine as do make men admire Howbeit this kinde of miracles they cannot truely be esteemed true miracles indeed because either they are not truly effected or not to a true end at the least although yet they may verie fitly be termed terata that is wondrous actions because of the sudden woonder succeeding the same The other sort of miracles are properly called Seimeia that is significant or foreshewing signes and those are onely effected by Iehouah himselfe who alone doth woondrous things Yea and that also either without any meanes at all or quite contrarie to the power of all naturall causes and of nature herselfe For as the mightie Iehouah hath created nature of nothing so is he able when it seemeth good to his wisedome to alter to encline and to ouerturne the orderly course of nature in any one thing whatsoeuer Neither hath the said nature any power to
the powerfull execution of which Processe he so canuassed that cumbersome Spirit as he was glad to betake himselfe to the vttermost borders of Aegypt and euer since then the countrey hath beene free from such dangerous bug-boyes and therefore you may boldly submit your selfe Exorcistes If I submit to this motion my credit is crackt in the world Orthodoxus Why stand you so much vpon your outward reputation before the face of the world against the plaine euidence of your inward conscience in the presence of God Or why will you in this case especially so fondly respect the flying reports of phantasticall felowes What will it preiudice your person though blind ignorance should cancell your credit in the transitorie tables of worldly mens harts when your owne conscience doth not rase foorth your name from the euerlasting Booke of the liuing Put case that those good reports which the world doth affoord you be not found to be faithfully registred in the closet of your conscience then what other effect can they cause in the same but an inward tormenting torture Put case againe that those bad reports wherewith the vile world would besmeere your credit among men be found vtterly false in the consistory of your secret conscience Oh what an exceeding great ioy will be resident there and keepe in the same a continuall feast So then if your owne conscience accuse you not you must not so greatly regard the causeles contumelies of cinicall censurers as that for the same you care not to torture your conscience with continuall torments Neither may you be perswaded that other mens lying reportes are esteemed more authenticall before the tribunall seat of Christ the righteous Iudge then the approoued testimonie of your owne conscience which stands there to be acquited in iudgement The premisses therefore considered I would aduise you rather to respect conscience then fame for fame may oftsoones be forged but so can conscience neuer and therefore submit your selfe Exorcistes Alas sir I am by the verie force of your speech so fearefully distracted as I wotte not which waies to turne me For if I stande out as hitherto I haue done you will repute me to be peeuishly obstinate on the otherside by submitting my selfe to your motion I should but confirme the Bishop in their badde opinion concerning my cause Who suspecting me to be confederate with the boie in some cosening practise haue hitherto handled me too too hardly Orthodoxus Your setled pertinancie in so apparant an vntruth hath bred in euerie of them that bad opinion and your peeuish persisting therein doth more fully confirme them in such a conceit Touching their hard proceeding against your person if you simply respect the cause they could do no lesse then they did although yet respecting especially your place and calling it were to be wished that as well on their as on your owne behalfe a more considerate regard had beene giuen to the maine cause it selfe without any such eger persute or preposterous apologies cōcerning matters of fact For then so soone as it had been made apparantly euident that there are now no possessions at all your standing out in the matter would foorthwith haue beene nipt in the head Whereas they now suspecting perhaps that you had some sinister purpose to manage your publike fasts by such a pretended false miracle haue shewed the more sharpenes and your selfe on the otherside surmizing it may be that they onely maligning the puritie of your pretended profession haue continued so much the more obstinate All which inconsiderate courses and preposterous practises would haue beene fitly forestalled if betweene you all the cause it selfe had beene cleered Howbeit the remedie comes neuer vnseasonablie which may fully effect the cure and that I assure my selfe may yet be accomplished by your dutifull and humble submission Exorcistes Sir notwithstanding anie your patheticall perswasions the premisses considered I may in no wise submit Physiologus Master Orthodoxus that which hath beene hitherto spoken may fully suffice to perswade any reasonable person affecting the sincere truth with freedome of conscience Howbeit this fellow I perceiue he is wholie ouerswaied with some spiced singularitie or with a peeuish selfewill at the least in not submitting himselfe to that truth which he is vnable to answer for any thing hitherto heard You haue I confesse beene toiled too much respecting especially your present meditations for the Sabaoth daies exercise and therefore it shall not be amisse to put an end to our conference In the meane time let Exorcistes repaire to his familiar friendes and those of his faction how many or mightie soeuer Let him intimate our whole discourse to their approoued iudgements Let them dulie consider and exactly perpend the seuerall points and then let them in a more mature deliberation deuise with themselues whether it be better for the man to submit or still to stand out as he doth If they aduise him to yeeld a submission we haue our harts desire and God the whole glorie If otherwise they will haue him standfast to his tackling Let then signifie the manner how with the time and place for our meeting and we will be readie from time to time to conferre with them to the full if they accept of our offer Lycanthropus This is in my simple conceite a Christian motion Pneumatomachus If they dislike they shall greatly discredit their cause Physiologus They are bound to praise God for your Christian care Orthodoxus Well then in the meane time we will pray vnto God to enlighten our iudgements to make vs wise to sobrietie and to giue vnto vs the spirit of discretion that we may be able to discerne the things that differ and to approoue only of those things which are pleasing to God in Iesus Christ and so I take my leaue for the present 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Soli Deo gloria 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A summarie Table of all the principall points the speciall matters the seuerall syllogismes and the sundrie expositions of such places of Scripture as are any way pertinent to the maine purpose it selfe The first Dialogue pag. 1. CHristian conferences and their commendable vse pag. 2. Sommers his supposed passions put downe 4 Mans nature is euer desirous of Nouelties 6 Christian exercises must be begun with praier 7 Pneumatomachus what it properly signifieth 8 That there are essentiall spirits and diuels 9 Angels are celestiall creatures created of God ibid. Spirits and diuels supposed to be nothing else but the good or euill motions in men ibid. Angels supposed to be none other thing els but the sensible signes of Gods woonderfull power ibid. It is dangerous to denie the essentiall being of spirits and diuels 11 Man is endued with a spirituall and immortall soule ibid. The originall fountaines or grounds of all errors 12 Physiologus and what the same signifieth 13 Philosophie is not simplie forbidden Col. 2. 8. ibid. The true vse of Philosophie expressed ibid. The minde what
appointed praier and fasting an onely effectuall meanes for the powerfull expelling of diuels he notwithstanding all this doth make a speciall choice of persons of places and times for the more orderly effecting of euerie such admirable enterprise Orthodoxus Your answeres without doubt are suddenly fallen to such deadly debate among themselues as the one is readie to pull out the throate of the other by reason of some bad disposition or present defect in your memorie For praier fasting ere while was the only appointed meanes to expel the power of the diuel and now the efficacie thereof is restrained to places times It was not long since a publike ordinance appointed generallie for all men and now it is imposed vpon some speciall persons Not long since it might well be effected by the partie himselfe and his parents but now the powerfull dispatch thereof is peculiar onely to preachers and pastours Not long since it was an ordinarie power incident to any godly Minister or others but no Minister now how godlie soeuer hath the good hap to hit on that matter saue onely your selfe Thus then you see that as the disease so also the cure it doth ebbe and flowe with the Moone Howbeit these doubtfull vncerteinties doe sauour verie shrewdly of some legerdemaine at the least And howsoeuer your selfe auouching that God maketh speciall choise of persons of places and times woulde cunningly shelter your cause vnder Augustines credite verie certeine I am that the same is onely a Iesuiticall iuggling deuise and therefore it deserueth the selfesame answere with theirs For be it that the Lord as Augustine saith doth make a speciall choice of persons of places and times for the orderly effecting of euery such admirable action this prooueth not that the power of working myracles continueth still to this present Onely it sheweth that whensoeuer the Lord worketh any woonderfull worke he is free to make choise of persons of places and times as seemeth best to his wisedome And therefore admitting all this for a truth do tell me withall by what meanes you are certeine that the Lord made speciall choise of your selfe for such speciall busines Exorcistes Why sir the verie effect it selfe doth fully declare the truth of the matter for I cast foorth the diuell Orthodoxus Be it that some such effect as your selfe surmizeth did forthwith succeed your saide enterprize yet forsomuch as your selfe did no more in the matter then was ordinarily incident you say to any godly preacher or others how comes it to passe that those other performing the very selfesame things you performed your selfe no such admirable effect should follow their labors Was it for that the rest of the Ministers were all but vngodly wretches in comparison of you Or was it so rather for that those Ministers fearing the Lord aright the Lord would not suffer their innocent soules to be falsly seduced by any such sleights or for that you your selfe being at that time more destitude of grace had for the present some power to effect such a false deceiueable signe to your greater condemnation without speedie repentance Exorcistes Howsoeuer I may not impure a lesse measure of godlinesse to others neither yet arrogate any more to my selfe then to any of the rest verie certeine it is that onely my selfe had then the speciall power to expell the diuell Physiologus Master Orthodoxus let me argue this point Come on Exorcistes If your owne selfe as you say had then a more speciall power to expell the diuell by prayer and fasting then any of the rest that your said power it must needs be a vocall or personall power at the least My meaning is that such a speciall power it proceeded either from your prayer or your person but not from your prayer at all for the others also they prayed and fasted as deuoutly as you did your selfe albeit in vaine and therefore your prayer of it selfe it could haue no more power then theirs vnlesse hapily you haue some speciall prayer for that speciall purpose beyond the rest of your brethren Yea and when all comes to all it was not your prayer but your preaching it should seeme that expelled the diuell Againe if such a speciall power proceeded from your person alone then surely that selfe same personall power it was either some naturall or supernaturall power at the least Howbeit a meere naturall power it might not possibly be because no created or meere naturall power may possibly extend foorth it selfe to any such supernaturall action as hath been sufficiently shewed before Exorcistes That followeth not For the body of Christ it was vndoubtedly a created or true naturall body and yet notwithstanding there went vertue or power from out of the same for the admirable curing of people And therefore if it so seemed good to the Lord for the glory of his name why might not some power in like manner proceed from my person for the timely expelling of that spirit or diuel Physiologus Besides your shamelesse pride in matching your body with the body of Christ you do monstrously mistake the very point of your purpose For do you imagine that there went any power essentially from out of the body of Christ for the admirable curing of any Exorcistes I make no question thereof And the scripture it telleth vs plainly that the whole multitude thronged to touch him for there proceeded vertue out of him and healed them all Physiologus Though it be said in the text that vertue proceeded out of Christ to the curing of many yet that must not be vnderstood as though any vertue essentially existing in the naturall body of Christ did passe foorth essentially from him vnto others in that selfesame absolute number no but this proceeding of vertue from the bodie of Christ vnto others is so farre foorth to be accounted a going foorth as the effect may be said to proceed from the cause Or it is to be interpreted according to the maner of a cause producing an effect The which are said to go foorth the one from the other in as much as the verie cause it selfe doth apparantly shine foorth in that selfesame effect which it worketh And euen after such a manner we must vnderstand this matter in question Because the Diuine vertue it selfe essentially existing in the person of Christ did effectually procure present health to the parties oppressed Otherwaies how must that text be vnderstood which telleth vs that the wisedome of God being but one the same can do all things it selfe that it renueth all and entreth eueh into the holie soules making them the friends and prophets of God Now sir because it is said he entreth into the holie soules must we therefore imagine the holie spiriâ— of God to be any where now where it was not before not so for the same of necessitie at all times and seasons is euerie where present Howbeit because the holie spirit of God doth then