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A29432 A dissuasive from the errours of the time wherein the tenets of the principall sects, especially of the Independents, are drawn together in one map, for the most part in the words of their own authours, and their maine principles are examined by the touch-stone of the Holy Scriptures / by Robert Baylie ... Baillie, Robert, 1599-1662. 1645 (1645) Wing B456; ESTC R200539 238,349 276

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which they do belong neither do we know any such thing to be appointed by Christ our Lord for the maintenance of the Ministry in these dayes the bringing in of settled endowments and eminent Preferments into the Church hath been the corruption and to some the destruction of such as lived by them both Church-Officers and Church-members qqqq Cottons Way p. 38. The Deacons were elected and ordained for the serving at Tables to wit the serving of all these Tables which pertained to the Church to provide for which are the Lords Table the Tables of the Ministers or Elders of the Church and the Tables of the poore Brethren whither of their own body or strangers for the maintaining whereof we doe not appoint them to goe up and down to collect the benevolences of abler brethren but as the Apostles received the oblations of the brethren brought and laid down at their feet and thereby made distribution as the use of the Church required so the Deacons receive the oblations of the brethren every Lords day brought unto them and laid down before them and distribute the same as the need of the Church doth require rrrr Ibid. ssss Plaine-dealing p. 19. At some other places they make a rate upon every man as well within as not of the Church residing with them towards the Churches occasions and others are beholding now and then to the generall Court to study wayes to enforce the mantenance of the Ministry tttt Antap. p. 276. Have you not carried a greater port then most of the godly Ministers in the City or Countrey have not some of you the prime Lectures of the City and other good places of advantage and profit besides what some of you have from your own Churches Vide supra Chap. 4. wwww Bastwicks Independency p. 142.143 It is well known and can sufficiently be proved that godly Christians of holy conversation against whom they had no exception either for doctrine or manners and who offered themselves to be admitted members upon their own conditions and yet were not suffered to be joyned members onely because they were poore and this very reason was given them for their not-admission that they would not have their Church over-burdened with poore Ibid. It was replyed that the Congregation of which he was Pastor consisted of great Personages Knights Ladies and rich Merchants and such people as they being but poore could not walk so sutably with them wherefore he perswaded them to joyn themselves with some other Congregation among poore people where they might better walk and more confortably in fellowship with them xxxx Plaine-dealing p. 16. The Pastor begins with solemn prayer continu●ing about a quarter of an houre the Teacher then readeth and expoundeth a Chapter then a Psalme is sung which ever one of the ruling Elders dictates after that the Pastor preacheth a Sermon and sometimes ex tempore exhortes then the Teacher concludes with prayer and a blessing yyyy Cottons Way p. 66. First then when we come into the Church according to the Apostles direction 1 Tim. 1. We make prayers and intercessions and thanksgivings for our selves and all men zzzz I have heard the chiefe of our Brethren maintaine this publikely and I understand it is the practice of some of them in the City aaaaa Cottons Catechisme p. 6. Where there bee more Prophets besides the Elders they may Prophesie two or three if the time permit the Elders calling to them whither in the same Church or others if they have any word of exhortation to the people to say on bbbbb Ibid. And for the bettering of a mans selfe or others it may be lawfull for either young or old save only for women to aske questions from the mouth of the Prophets ccccc Answer to the 32 quest p. 78. Some think the people have a liberty to aske their questions publikely for their better satisfaction upon very urgent and weighty cause though even this is doubted of by others and all judge the ordinary practice of it not necessary but if it be not meekly and wisely carried to be inconvenient if not utterly unlawfull and therfore such asking of questions is seldom used in any Church among us and in most Churches never ddddd Anatom p. 26. In the matter of singing of Psalms they differ not only from us but are also at variance among themselves some thinking it unlawfull for any to sing but he who preacheth and this hath been the late practice at Arnheim others thinking it unlawfull for women to sing in the Congregation hence some women at Rotterdam doe not sing I heare also they think it unfit for any at all in such times of the Churches trouble as this eeeee Ibid. fffff Vide supra Chap. 4. SS 1. ggggg If the question be of joyning in some few selected prayers read by an able and faithfull Minister out of the book as of the one side we are tender of imputing sinnes to these that so joyne Vide infra hhhhh hhhhh To that part of the Directory which recommends the use of the Lords Prayer they did enter no dissent an Answer to the 32 Questions p. 55. By a Liturgie and forme of prayer we suppose you meane not a forme of private prayer composed for the help of the weaker as for a forme of prayer in generall we conceive your meaning cannot be of that for it is evident that many Preachers constantly use a set forme of prayer of their owne making before their Sermons with whom the people refuse not to joyne ibid. p. 59. Wee acknowledge the Lords Prayer and other formes set downe in Scripture may be lawfully used as prayers due cautions being observed Cottons pouring out of the spirit p. 10. Not that I would discourage any poore soule from praying on a Book for I think as we may sing Psalms on a Book so we may in some cases pray on a Book iiiii Vide supra s Also see the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Colony of the Sommer Islands p. 2. Our children die unbaptized our selves are deprived of the Lords Supper our daughters cannot be given in marriage kkkkk Plain Dealing p. 40. At New Plymouth Mr Chancey stands for dipping in Baptism only necessary lllll Cottons Catechism p. 4. What manner of men hath God appointed to be received as members of his Church Answ Such as doe willingly offer themselves first to the Lord and then to the Church by confessing of their sins c. mmmmm This wee heare is their ordinary practice at London nnnnn Vide supra Chap. 4. Q R ooooo Vide supra ibid. ppppp This is the Apologists common profession qqqqq This also they professe as a cleare consequent of the former rrrrr Cottons way p. 68. The Lords Supper we administer for the gesture to the people sitting according as Christ administred it to his Disciples sitting Matth. 20.26 who also made a symbolicall use of it to teach the Church their majority over their Ministers in some cases and their Iudiciall