Some Drops of the Viall powred OUT IN A SEASON WHEN IT IS Neither Night nor Day OR Some Discoveries of Iesus Christ His Glory in severall BOOKS viz. 1. The New Quaere 2. The Opening of the Vindication 3. The Smoake in the Temple 4. The Groanes for liberty 5. The Divine Right of Presbytery discussed 6. An End of One Controversie 7. Reasons for Vnity Peace and Love And Shadowes flying away All which Books are here reprinted in one Booke entirely after the severall Impressions of them and presented to the Reader 1 King 19. 11 12. But the Lord was not in the Winde and after the Winde an Earthquake but the Lord was not in the Earthquake and after the Earthquake a fire but the Lord was not in the fire and after the fire a still small voice and the Lord was in that By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. TO HIS EXCELLENCY Sir THOMAS FAIRFAX Generall of all the Forccs raised for the PARLIAMENT Right Honourable THe severall pieces thus rallied were never writ in my own power or appointment but I had commonly some juncture of Providence and something of a Spirit not my own upon me for I observed I could not write when I would my Springes were not in me nor could I end when I would till I had finished this Testimony and for something of God here I am sure there is enough of man of my selfe Thus is Gods appearing while we are in the Body he was in Christs which had no sin but he is not so in ours which are full of sin I have some few things to say and they ars things of duty from me and of truth to you that God hath filled the story of your life with himselfe with his Power Wisdome and Love and all that he may be your fulnesse and that you would glory in the Lord Let me remind you how you have seen him from Leedes to Bradfoorth to Wetherby to York to Hull even from Yorkeshire to Lincolneshire from thence to Naseby and so through the Conquest of Cities Towns Castles through so much almost as a Kingdom comes to And now after all this enter into your rest even the love of God the Son of God and there refresh your selfe in his light in his glory in the bosome of his love there are pleasures for evermore this is a piece of your coursest worke to beare the Sword for him who is the Power of God upon Earth for the punishment of evill doers in the world the more glorious worke is your Spirituall where Principalities and Rulers and Spirituall wickednesse in high places flesh and bloud are all against you and yet you above them all in him through whom you are more than Conquerour even him that loved you Sir Let it be not your busines only to Conquer as a man but as a Saint not as a Souldier but as a Christian not in the spirit of man but of God Let not a sin a lust a temptation stand more before you in the body then an enemy in the field gird on your spirituall Armour your Shield of faith your brestplate of righteousnesse your Sword of the Spirit your Helmet of Salvation and put on your white lining which is the righteousnesse of the Saints and follow him who rides on the white Horse in a vesture dipt in the bloud of his sufferings whose name is the Word of God and tell me if ever there was Glory like unto this Glory I cannot reckon the mighty men of valour in the world any thing but a worldly glory which if it dyed not with them or some ages after them yet can live no longer than the life of the world all these things are perishing but to be a man of the holy Spirit a man borne of God a man that wars not after the flesh a man of the Kingdom of God as well as of England Thus you shall live beyond time and age and men and the world gathered up into the life which is Eternall and was with the Father Sir Your dwelling now is much in the shadow of death and amongst the Graves and therefore so live in Christ your life that you may have one life more then men can kill men can only kill the man not the Christian. Sir I will not praise you but blesse God for you and his Image in you this will make great men love God and not themselves to speake of them as his not as their own Now Sir so warre that you may be still a man of peace in the midst of battell and of compassions in the midst of sufferings never wearing your Laurell without some Olive that all may know when you act as a Magistrate and as your selfe when you act from power or when from love from Justice or when from mercy So love as you may love God and Christ in men more then men and the Spirit in any more then the Forme either of Presbytery or Independency Thus Brethren who can now scarcely love one another because of that shall love you and shall learne to love one another from you Noble Sir Your humble servant IOHN SALTMARSH A New Quaere At this time seasonably to be considered as we tender the advancement of TRVTH PEACE Viz. Whether it be fit according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdome hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers By IOHN SALTMARSH Preacher of the Word at Brasteed in Kent 2 Cor. 10. 8. Our authority which the Lord hath given for Instruction and not for destruction LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Signe of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-End of S. PAULS 1646. A Quaere Whether it be â—it according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-Government over the Kingdom hastily or not and with the Power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers _1 THe Rules laid down in the Word for practicall Obedience are these in part Let every one be fully perswaded in his own mind Rom. 14. 5. ver 23. and whatsoever is not of faith is sin Now the setling of any Government upon a people who are yet generally untaught in the nature and grounds of it is to put upon the people the practice of that wherein it is impossible they can be fully perswaded in their minds and so either on a necessity of sin or misery 2 There is great danger of bringing people under a Popish implicite Obedience by forcing on a practice of that which they scarce know or know but in part And this is against the Nationall Covenant to side with any Principles of Popery And we know it by experience that the people have been ever devoted to any thing the State sets up all the disputes or conscience of the common people usually ending in this Whether it
repent or be sorry for sinne c. be humble c. if they preach them as Christ and the Apostles did as graces flowing from him and out of his fulnesse and not as springings of their owne and waters from their fountaines as if the teachers like Moses would make men beleeve they could with such Rods and exhortations smite upon mens hearts as upon rocks and bring waters out of them be they never so hard and stony We agree with you that repentance and sorrow for sinne and humiliation and self-deniall are all to be preached and shall contend with you who preaches them most and clearest but then because Iohn said Repent and Christ said Repent and Peter said Repent are we to examine the Mystery no farther Know we not that the whole Scripture in its fulnesse and integrality reveales the whole truth and must we not looke out and compare Scripture with Scripture spirituall things with spirituall and so finding out truth from the degrees to the glory and fulnesse of it preach it in the same glory and fulnesse as we find it We heare Christ preaching before the Spirit was given Repent and we find when the Spirit was given Christ is said to give Repentance to Israel and forgivenesse of sinnes and shall we not now preach Jesus Christ and Repentance in Jesus Christ the fountaine of repentance the author of repentance and yet preach repentance and repentance thus and repentance in the glory of it more The Apostle in one place saith Beleeve in the Lord Iesus Christ and thou shalt be saved and in another place He is the author and finisher of our Faith Shall we not now preach Iesus Christ first and Iesus Christ the fountaine and Iesus Christ the author of faith and beleeivng and yet preach faith yea and thus preach faith faith in the glory faith in the revelation of it faith from Christ and faith in Christ One Scripture tels us godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation c. And another tels us They shall look on him whom they have peirced and they shall mourne for him c. Shall we not now preach sorrow for sin took from Christ Christ piercing and wounding and melting the heart Christ discovering sin and powring water upon drie ground this is sorrow for sin in the glory of the Gospell One Scripture bids He that will follow me let him deny himselfe and take up his crosse Another saith It is he that worketh in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure and I am able to do all things through Christ that strenghneth me Shall we not now preach Christ our strength and Christ our selfe-deniall and is not this selfe-denyall in the glory of the Gospell So as the difference betwixt us is this Ye preach Christ and the Gospell and the graces of the Spirit in the parts as ye find it we dare not speak the mystery so in peices so in halfe and quarter revealings we see such preaching answers not the fulnesse of the Mystery the riches of the Gospell the glory of the New Testament We find that in the fulnesse of the New Testament Christ is set up as a Prince as a King as a Lord as a crown and glory to every grace and gift nay he is made not only righteousnesse but sanctification too and so we preach him Whereas to preach his riches without him his graces by themselves single and private as repent and beleevs and be humbled and deny your selves ye make the gifts lose much of their glory Christ of his praise and the Gospell of its fulnesse To the Second of your alleadging my Book in such and such pages as another Gospell from Christs I shall print them as you quote them and with them I desire these things to be considered together with the other parts of my Booke and the scope of it which you have detained in unrighteousnesse All these I freely open to the judgment of all who are Spirituall Master Gataker 1 That John Christs and his Apostles Method were all one for matter and manner for they all preached Faith and Repentance and yet we are taxed for these things as Legalists by this Author 2 John and the rest preached life and salvation upon condition of Faith and Repentance and Obedience 3 Where we find Faith only preached it is because we have but the Summaries or heads of their Sermons Answer To the first that I taxe you for preaching Faith and Repentance as the Apostles did and John did as Legalists Nay I tax ye only because ye preach it not as they did according to the full revelation of it in the New Testament but you preach it only as you find it in their Summaries and in the briefe narration of their Doctrine and this you ought not to do if you will preach according to that glorious Analogie of the Gospell and to this I shall only bring in your own words to convince you and so from your own mouth condemn you You say of the Apostles We have but Summaries of them as in Acts 2. 40 and 16. 32. and you knowing this preach only by their first Methods and Summaries not looking to the revelation of the mystery which the Apostle saies is now made manifest And for Iohns manner of preaching his Preaching is to be no more an example to you then his Baptism You know the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater then he To the second That Faith Repentance and Obedience were conditions of life and salvation Why keep you not to the Forme of wholesome words in Scripture Where doth the Scripture call these conditions of salvation They that are Christs do beleeve and repent and obey but do they beleeve repent and obey that they may be Christs Hath not God chosen us in him predestinated us unto the adoption of children in Jesus Christ But I know you wil say That when the Apostles did beleeve repent and obey it is by consequence as much as a condition and the same with a condition But answer The interpreting the Spirit thus in the letter and in consequence hath much darkned the glory of the Gospell When some of Christs Disciples took his words as you do under a condition Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man c. the words saith he that I speake are Spirit Consider but what stâ—â—â—ts you bring the Gospell into first you make life appearing to be had in the Covenant of Grace as at first in the Covenant of Works Do this and live so beleeve repent obey and live thus runs your Doctrine nor can you with all your distinctions make Faith in this consideration lesse then a worke and so put Salvation upon a condition of works againe Is this Free-Grace But you say Faith is a gift freely given of God and here is Free-grace still But I pray Is this any more Free-Frace respectively to what we do for life then the Covenant of works
with such power from heaven became it is not managed according to pure Gospell-order nor upon a people rightly prepared and fitted so as the fault is not because there is a Government as the Vindication observes but not the pure Government nor the Government rightly placed And for his Charge against the purer Congregations as I know not any such doings amongst them so I will make no Apologie for them because that would bring them within the compasse of something like a crime and I know nothing but well by them THE NEW QVAERES Folio 1. Of the Vindication propounded to the Honourable PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLY Quaere 1. VVHether a bare Excommunication or Suspension from the Sacrament not backed with Authority of the Civill Magistrate be not like to prove an impotent and invalid and ineffectuall meanes Whether it be not a far better way in point of Conscience and Prudence to admit scandalous persons to the Sacrament not actually excommunicated though they thereby eat and drinke judgement to themselves then to deprive any to whom it really belongs Antiquaere 1. Whether is there any excommunication or no For the Vindication questions it in calling it an invalid thing and if so How can any such thing be setled at all as an Ordinance in the Church Whether ought Authority to joyne it selfe with any thing so questionable as the Vindication would have it Since nothing hath proved more fatall Whether excommunication being granted be any such bare thing as the Vindication speaks on so impotent 〈…〉 and ineffectuall without being Authorized from a power from men And whether the Ministers are to strike with the Magistrates Sword Whether all the differences about Excommunication be not from the want of true Church-constitution And whether a Nationall Church be not too wide for the Ordinances and the Scabbard too big for the Sword And whether Solomons Temple and Christs be all of a largenesse so that one golden Reed will measure both Whether the old Temple that had Windowes of narrow Lights be any pattern for the new Whether any thing of Prudence As admitting scandalous persons to eat their owne damnation as the Vindication saith Rather then to deprive them to whom it really belongs be any Scripture-way of arguing which forbids us not to doe evill that good may come thereby Whether any sin or offence be committed in such cases of deprivation of scandalous persons seeing though it may really belong to them yet the Church nor Dispenser not knowing any such thing nor judging but only by the Rule of visible walking to the Word and the Rule of evidences there for Administration of Ordinances can faithfully administer but accordingly for they that walke according to this Rule peace be on them and on the Israel of God Whether the Law of God in this be not as equitable as the Law of Man which judges not of secrets nor takes cognizance of things unknown Whether it be not rather the scandalous persons only sin who if he have a reall interest will not live in the evidence of it nor walke by the Rule of Administrations that he may partake Quaere 2. Fol. 51. Whether the suspending such persons from the Sacrament being no Ordinance of Christ without a totall suspension will not be a meanes rather to harden And whether their admission be not rather a more probable way of reclayming being accompanied with serious Admonitions Exhortations publike and serious Reprehensions Reasons 1. Because that such persons are more hardned by it totall exclusion only working shame 2. Because against their receiving like Italians in Lent they will be holy for a day or two and make vows c. and may be so converted 3. Many then will read c. which would not do so before in an Hypocriticall conscience and the Sacrament is a Covenant which binds all receivers to reforme 4. The Sacraments are so accompanied with Examinations Exhortations c. that ten to one would be converted by such admonition rather then by suspention therefore Christ when he came to save sinners permitted them familiarly to him and his Ordinances Antiquaere 2. Whether Excommunication according to the Vindication grounds being a questionable Ordinance as well as suspention one of them may not be as well made use on as the other Suspention as well as Excommunication upon his grounds Whether the Admonitions Exhortations Reprehensions Examinations be such as Christ appointed to make the Sacrament an Ordinance for all scandalous sinners to come to or rather to quicken and spiritualize the worthy receivers who receive according to the visible Rule of Administrations as the whole straine of Scripture precept and practice speake Whether all the three first Reasons presuppose not such a Church-constitution for Ordinances and partakers as the Scriptures never speak on For where is there any such constituted Church of scandalous and Italianated persons who were constituted according to the Rule and for Corinth and the rest that had such bad Members they are not examples in that of gathering or constituting or administring but reforming as the Apostles who calls them to the rule of the Word This one mistake hath deceived many Whether Christ in permitting scandalous sinners to converse with him familiarly when he was here in the flest be any rule for admitting all such sinners now to the mystery of his spirituall Ordinances And whether there be not a spirituall difference betwixt Christ not offered and offered betwixt his conversing in the flesh for making up the mystery of Redemption and the mystery of Redemption made up and finished by the eternall Spirit in which he offered himselfe betwixt Christ in the flesh and in the Spirit or Ordinance Whether did Christ intend his ordinary or occasionall converting to be any rule for his Church or Kingdome in its Administrations or Ordinances which is a worke of another forme And whether this intermingling of carnall and spirituall notions be a Scripture-way Whether ought we to force any consequences or inferences upon the Word for practise in administrations in things neither clearly nor intentionally for ought we see nor mystically directed appointed or instituted by Christ And whether such a ground once granted will not let in one kind of will-worship as well as another And for that ten to one being converted so as he sayes Quere Whether it is not ten to one any will be a converted but rather hardned Quere 3. Fol. 53. Whether did Christ ever intend that none but true believers should receive his Supper or did he not infallibly know that many unregenerate and impenitent should and would receive it And the Antagonists grant that close Hypocrites have an external right then if these why not others Christ having ordained the Sacrament of the Supper as well as the Word to be a savour of death to such and God hath his end in both the glory of his Justice in the one as well as of his Grace and Mercy in the other Antiquaere Whether
did not Christ intend that all should receive or communicate in outward administrations by an externall right And if so then what ground is there for the visible imponitent or known scandalous Whether if true saving faith were the one part of the Interest and the externall right the other part of it there be any ground left for the other Communicants And whether that the Scriptures rule and purer practice of all Churches in the Gospell excepting when falne or beside the rule and the Scripture Cautions do not wholly exclude such scandalous impenitent persons pleaded for against all other forrain probable possible rationall or Rethoricating consequences and conclusions to the contrary Whether the glory of Gods justice in the judgement upon unworthy receivers be any ground to take in Communicants for condemnation since it is full against other Scriptures that Christ came not into the world to condemne the world and to save mens lives not to destroy them and he would not the death of a sinner And whether though finally condemnation be ordered for all such yet no such thing being formally externally dispensatively ordered any persons ought to be called in for condemnation in such a way Whether this be not quite against the nature of the Gospell dispensation Christ under the Gospell dispensing himselfe and giving out himselfe as a Saviour a Redeemer and in all the Gospell declining judgement I come not to judge the world reserving that worke till he appeare in his own day to condemnation of sinners this being only his day of reconciliation to them Whether the Apostle in Rom. 3. where he saith But if our righteousnesse commend the righteousnesse of God is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance And not rather as we be slanderously reported and some affirme that we say Let us do evill that good may come thereof doth not parallell this For the Apostle here though Gods righteousnesse and justice was set forth by his justice upon sinners yet he did not say as in the Quaere is said Let us then do evill that God may be glorified or good may come thereof Quaere 4. Fol. 53. Whether all Ordinances proving alike good or bad saving or damning and impenitent persons as well encreasing their damnation by hearing praying fasting c. What reason can be rendred by any rational Christian why such persons should not be admitted to the Sacrament as to any other Ordinance or not suspended equally from all Antiquaere Whether any such consequence of admission or suspention from Ordinances ought to be grounded upon damnation or judgement but rather upon words of command and institution and Scripture-practice And if any such appeared all these Consequences which the Vindication draws forth wringing bloud and not milke from the Word might be saved and he need not go so far about which when all is done brings a soule but at best upon a probable specious or reall coloured Argument Whether since the Vindication pulls down cleare Scripture-Texts and grounds in this Controversie to weaken the building of his Adversary he ought not in conscience first to have had a cleare Word or Institution for the contrary practice and not only probable and litterally conclusive grounds that soules can stand at surest upon but like men upon Ice who are in as faire a probability to fall as stand And whether having taken away the Scripture-Texts for Presbytery it selfe he can well hold up any upon his grounds And whether is not this sceptiall or doubtfull way of reasoning upon Scripture neither pulling quite down nor building up a way rather to fill all the roomes with rubbish and at length neither to have new building nor old What man going to build a Tower sitteth not down first and seeth what it will cost him lest having begun and not able to finish all men begin to laugh at him saying c. But whether is not all this ado about Ordinances rather for want of a right and purer constitution of Churches which would save all this controversie about scandalous and impenitent sinners when the Church were not troubled with such where the Ordinances are P. Well I am by this time well perswaded and having heard all this for my part I cannot but see that in setling things suddenly upon the Kingdom and things thus questionable and unwarrantable in the way of Administration and a Kingdom so full of impenitent and scandalous sinners as Parochiall Congregations generally are there is danger of great sin and great trouble C. I will therefore adde two or three Arguments more and so conclude An Experimentall-Argument for pure Churches and Ordinances THere is a spirituall Antipathie betwixt Grace and Nature Flesh and Spirit the Flesh lusting against the Spirit and the Spirit against the Flesh and the more spirituall or more carnall the more these two contrary Natures worke and the more powerfully against each other as in Sarah and Hagar Isaac and Ishmael and the lesse or more they can beare with each other As for example While Iudas carnall nature or disposition uninflamed by Satan boyled and heightned not into any such grosse act as selling and betraying of Christ the Disciples bore with him more and Christ himselfe as he was man and in a state of Infirmity could more endure him then upon the breaking out of his sin and so in Simon Magus in Ananius and Saphira and others whom the Apostles could no longer suffer not by way of Discipline or inflicting Censure but by way of a spirituall contrarinesse to such grosse hypocrisie and sin discovered And so the experiences of all that are of a pure Gospell-temper will witnesse to this very Age in acts of spirituall fellowship and Community in all acts of Worship c. This is founded not only on spirituall antipathies and sympathies but in naturall and civill naturall things of a contrary nature bearing one another no lesse and things of a civill nature yet contrary doing the like Hence arise separations meerly naturall and sensitive and rationall Hence arises a particular Schism and separation in all the things of the world and a secret gathering and contracting of things from the contrary into the same kinde the common purity being lost as the Apostle implies by which Nature did at first more universally agree as if one common spirit had been in it And thus it was in the Churches of God at first when three foure or five thousand did agree in one way of spirituall fellowship Doctrine breaking of bread and Prayers but we see there is not now such pourings out of spirit upon multitudes and Nations that a Nationall-Church should be together in such a unity of spirit And under the Law there was even a weaker example in the people of the Jewes being taken out from the people of the world and naturally hating all that were common and uncleane as the Gentiles And before the Law the people of God did gather into Families and particular societies as in Aâ—â—â—â—am
gifts which it alwaies had and they are joyned both in the Word and practice as in Heb. 6. 1. Doctrine of Baptisms and Laying on of hands and in their practice they were joyned as in act Act. 8. 14. 15 16. And it will appeare in the Word that the Apostles did not so reckon of them single but together as in Act. 8. 14 15 16. where it is said they were only Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus but they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost So as Baptism by water and by the Holy Ghost being joyned together both in Institution Doctrine and Practice are not to be separated nor given in such a time wherein that of the Holy Ghost is not given For what God hath joyned together let no man put asunder 11. That it is as unreasonable to take any such Ordinance of Jesus Christ from any that is not distinctly specially spiritually powerfully enabled as the first dispensers as it is to take the word of any common man charging us in the name of the Parliament and cannot visibly make out a visible Excellency and Supremacy of power by Ordinance or Commission 12. That these Churches who enjoy Christs mind as they think most fully in the practice oâ— Ordinances yet have no greater gifts in their Churches then there are in those called Independent or Separatist Prayer Teaching Prophesying being as fully and powerfully performed in the one as the other And being so Whether must not the Churches of Christ be distinguished by some more visible glorious power and gifts as at first by which they may be discerned to excell all other Societies 13. That the fulnesse of time is not yet come for Ordinances For as there were severall seasons for the givings out of Truth before so now Seeking or Seekers So called What their Way is and what they hold THat there is no Church nor Ordinances yet That if they did not end with the Primitive or Apostles times yet they are to begin as in the Primitive times with gifts and miracles and that there is as much reason for the like gifts to make out the Truth of any of the Gospell now to an Antichristian estate as formerly to a Jewish or Heathenish That such a Belever as can dispence Ordinances must be qualified as the Beleevers in Mark 16. and as the former Disciples were That there is a time and fulnesse for the Spirit and for the latter pure spirituall dispensations as there was formerly for the first dispensations And whether this shall be while the Angels are but powring out their Vials or not or when Babilon is fallen And whether there is not as much need for new Tongues to reveale the pure Origionall to us it being conveyed with corruptions and additionals in Translations by which Truth may be more purely discovered and the waters of Life that now run muddily may flow more cleare and Crystal-like from the Throne of God The Exceptions 1. THat Jesus Christ did promise to be ever with his Church and therefore cannot be reasonably presumed to leave them without Church and Ordinances 2. That if Scriptures were not so pure and cleere to us as the Word of Life were not sufficiently there God were lesse gracious to us now under Grace and Christ come in the flesh then before to the Jews who gave them a Book of the Law which remained with them to the coming of the Messiah 3. That such gifts and miracles were rather for bringing the Word into the world and for glorifying Christs first coming in the flesh then for after 4. That if we must have miracles to make us beleeve and not beleeve any truth till then we must have for every Truth as well as for one or two a miracle to give it evidence and so there must be a continuall and new miracle working for every new beleeving 5. If there must be miracles for beleeving Truth is not of that excellent nature that it seems for if it be not able to make it selfe evident and cast a native and spirituall f shine or brightnesse upon that soule it comes into it is but weake dark and insufficient 6. If Truth be not discernable in it self by its own glorious lightsome nature by beames from it self it is of a worse condition then many things below as the Sun and Stars and Candles c. which bring that light in their own nature and dispensation by which they are discerned 7. If every Truth be a became of Christ the truth then every beame hath light in it selfe because it streams from the fountaine of light and so is discernable 8. That it is more glorious to take evidences from the Spirit then from any thing without which can at the farthest of it self but convince the outward man 9. That all shall now in the last times be in a secret invisible inward spirituall glory no more in grosse carnall visible evidences and materiall beams as gifts miracles And this is to know Christ no more after the flesh 10. No miracles can in their own nature make one beleeve without a spirituall conviction from the Spirit of Christ going along with it so as we see when miracles were wrought some beleeved and some beleeved not So as then there is no such reason for miracles as pretended because that conviction which comes from the Spirit through the work of a miracle may come by any other instrumentall or originall way Or it is a more glorious operation by how much more single or by way of immediate revelation it works 11. To beleeve meerly by the Spirit is far more glorious then by any other outward means though never so outwardly glorious by how much the Spirit is more excellent then any thing else by so much more divine and spirituall are the impressions of it 12. That when miracles are wrought yet a pretender may work a miracle for the contrary like the Sorcerers of Egypt against Moses and Antichrist is spoken on rather to come with signes and wonders of the two then Christ So as here shall be a losse to any that think to beleeve meerly by miracle So as the Spirit is that which must make us beleeve beyond all the power of miracle which can give out its power but upon the sense at farthest being meerly outward and visible 13. That there is no such power for Ordinances as is pretended but Beleevers as Disciples may administer and so did the Apostles and Beleevers formerly as they were Disciples 14. That the Scriptures of the Gospell or New Testament are of such a divine and even Spirituall glory in the Letter as no other word There is a power to discover the reason and secrets of the heart which the reason and heart of man witnesses unto There is a power to convince and accase and terrifie and comfort clearly and undeniably and
their art reason knowledge experience into books and words written to their owne and other generations 9. This Gospell of Iesus Christ places Religion upon a more glorious transcendent way to sute with an infinite God then ever any device of man or reason could invent viz. upon faith upon a beleeving or spirituall perswasion wrought by the same God by which men are carried out into depths of infinitenesse and glory no way measurable nor discernable but by this way of beleeving and there could never have been an engine contrived which could have gone from man into God but this of faith by God himself nor more for the advantage of the glory of a God taking all from the creature employing it wholly upon a God 10. There is more reason in this Gospell or New Testament in the way of Religion which it holds forth by Iesus Christ then ever could be thought on by the reason of man as for instance Each mans internall conscience hath a light or law in it which condemnes or accuseth for murther c. Now if there be accusations against whom is the offence committed but against somthing infinite and what way is there more divinely rationall to apply to the justice of such an infinite being on God offended but by one who is both man and God even Iesus Christ So as the mystery of salvation is such as even reason it self cannot contradict or gainsay though it cannot comprehend to leave the world inexcusable in their unbeliefe because it commands them to beleeve in one whom in reason they cannot deny to be a way proportionable betwixt God and themselve for salvation 11. It carries things in such a rare way of mercy of justice of love of piety and as it is a salvation from God to man so it is a salvation managed by one who is God and Man and every thing belonging to it is accordingly mixed or tempered of Word and Spirit of power divine and outward dispensation or ordinance and all this for man who is of a mixed nature of flesh and spirit Thus things are carried in a way of proportion and sutablenesse so full so sutable and compleat and serviceable as the invention of men could never devise 12. It discovers reason to it self in all its workings and wayes in its purity and corruption in its vertues and vices conscience bearing witnesse to the Laws and Commandements of it it purifies and spiritualizeth reason and brings it into such a way of communion with God as the souls that reade it and are exercised in it seem to be new-borne to receive in another nature an immortall and incorruptible seed 13. It manages all the designe of salvation contrary to nature and the world upon contrary principles dispensations and hands by a Person poore humble and crucified for the good by Ministers and Dispensers meane and contemptible Fisher-men Tradesmen c. yet inspired by graces contrary as selfe-deniall humility love to enemies by conditions contrary as weaknesse affliction poverty suffering dying carrying a treasure a comfort a riches a life a glory under all these 14. It is accompanied by continued or standing miracles though miracles of a more spirituall nature as discovery of the counsels and hearts of men as conversion from sin mortification of sin changing natures from evill to good planting in new dispositions inclinations affections into the soul Now if such charges and conversions were in materiall or sensible things as from water to bloud from water to wine how would it astonish Which in spirituals in more wonderfull though only lesse discernable and not to be so sensibly perceived preserved by its very enemies the Roman cruelty of Emperours and Antichristian Traditions 15. It refers the discovery of all Truth in it self to the Spirit of God which no word but the Word of God would do and will not take in men into glory with it self which miracles do which are done by the hand and ministry of man and the Spirit in this way must needs be a more glorious Interpreter of the Will of God then the meer ministery by man and miracles can be by how much it is of a more spirituall nature and it is more excellent to seek things in the Spirit then in any outward dispensation which as it comes more immediately from God so it comes in more immediately upon men and to take in Truth by sense and sight or miracle is rather to know Christ after the flesh 16. Yet after all the Word it self is the best way to bring in evidence and discovery in its 〈◊〉 half to the souls of those that will come under the power â—peâ—atâ—on and experiments of it under the enlightening convictions impressions of it in the reading hearing and meditating of it These things are written that ye may beleeve And they that are thus exercised are above all miracle and are perswaded enough by it self without the help of an outward work 17. To these I adde the testimonies of the most ancient in witnesse of it Dionysius Areopagita thought to live in the times of the Apostles and not daring to take his Divinity any where but from these Scriptures Irenaeus who was in the yeare 180 affirming the fulnesse of these Gospell-Scriptures and accounted them the Pillar of Truth So Tertullian who lived 1400 years since doth accordingly witnesse to their perfection Origen Athanasius Chrysostome Constantine the Great in the first Nicene-Councell with thousands others all along to our own age 18. The Iewes whose very Testament and condition answers to every Prophesie and Gospel-Scripture 19. The many of those most eminently ancient learned and godly who have shed their bloud in testimony of it 20. The power of God going along with it 21. The Confessions of the most learned in that confesse that the Originall Copies are not corrupted but continued pure One Argument from the Nationall Covenant for Liberty of Conscience yet with all subordinate and just obedience to the State ART I. THe first Branch of the Covenant is That we shall sincerely really and constantly c. endeavour c. the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdoms of England c. in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God c. ART II. The second Branch of the Covenant That we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Popery c. Superstition Heresie Schism c. and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine c. Now from these I argue 1. Each one is personally and individually bound by the Covenant and in his owne proper conscience is obliged to endeavour a Reformation according to the Word of God and so far to the example of the best Reformed Churches as they are agreeable to that Word I hope no further Now who shall be the Iudge and Interpreter of this Word of God to each mans conscience in the things of God but he who is Lord of the conscience
remain unsatisfied they are not to be put upon his Dilemma of sin or misery or to be ruled with the rod but meeknesse 2 Cor. 4. 21. 2 Tim. 2. 25. Because the ignorance of the people generally which he would have for a reason to suspend it ought to be rather a reason for expedition that they may practically know it for while it is unknown it is slandered which might have been more amiable Because his two Texts make not only against the suspending for a time but for ever I wish he would preach such Texts as these to his people â— Thes 5. 12 13. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13. 7 17. Reply To your first It belongs not to the people c. It seems then the people must be kept out from all intermedling But I would have the people mark well what kind of Government that is that sits upon the waters or people I am sure Christ's Government takes in the people and being once in a Church-way they lose their old capacity for a new and are raised up from People to Brethren Act. 15. It is a worthy saying of Master Goodwyn and Master Nye That the Clergie got the golden ball of Government amongst them and I censure it is not much mended in the Presbytery But you say The people must be instructed that is they must only know that they must obey But they are called and consulted with and owned as the Scripture holds forth where ever there is any Church spoken of But what though instructed They are only to be instructed and taught that this is the Government to which they must submit So the people under Popery Prelacy c. were instructed with that limitation and restriction But shall they be thus instructed and taught in it People here is a Government which to some of us seemeth to be a Government according to the Word take it and examine it if you be so perswaded and that the Word holds it forth clearly embrace it if not do not obey anything in blind and implicite obedience This were faire dealing with Conscience thus the Churches of Christ had their Government among them To that of the peoples compliancy you speak on it is not my work here to dispute the Interests of Elders and People distinctly but to make answer that the complyancy and submission which are the duties you set out for the people are such as they may easily see the Interest you allow them viz. an Interest of compliance only and submission or obedience to what is done already not any liberty to examine and refuse And when people are instructed still your work remaines to prove your Presbytery over Congregations or a Church gathered out of a Church to be over a Church which may upon the Presbytery more justly be recriminated then where you do so often recriminate upon gathered Churches And me thinks to me it is unreasonable to taxe any for church-gathering when your very Presbytery is maintained by such a kind of principle What is your Classicall your Provinciall your Nationall Presbytery but a Church gathered out of the rest call it a virtuall or representative or what you please For that of Meeknesse how meek it will prove and how meekly they shall be dealt with under it we are not to judge by any promises of Meeknesse but by Principles Are the Principles such as naturally bring forth Meeknesse or rather such as invest the Ministers and Elders with a power supreame and of dominion But what if such as your self and some other godly meek of your Way may propound nothing but waies of meeknesse to your selves Can you undertake to secure the people for hereafter and for all of the Way and for the Way in its own nature There are things of meek appearances as the Presbytery may be yet prove not so The Lamb in the Revelation had two horns though a Lamb. Hazael could say Am I a dog that thou shouldest think so harshly of me that I should kill the children in the womb 2 King 8 He as little suspected his own cruelty which the Prophet foresaw in his nature would come to passe as you do in your Presbytery which some seeing into the nature of it cannot but prophesie accordingly You know Episcopacy began in meeknesse and Bishops were brought in first for good and for Peace But how proved they Tyranny had ever a countenance of Meeknesse and Love till it got seated in the Throne So Absolon was very faire spoken in the Gate but how was he in the Throne For that of my Dilemma of sin and misery which you say people shall not be put upon it may be some in your or another Classis may find more meeknesse a spirit of more love and ingenuity But what is this to the nature of the Government that some in it are well natured And for that of sin and misery surely if the Presbytery be set on with power many a one will be in that snare partly in feare and partly in an easie complyancy For there are whole Parishes and Counties of this constitution And you your self say The wilfully weak must have the rod. And who will this be Such as are so in the judgement and interpretation of the Classis or how I would this were well cleared And for your Scriptures of 1 Cor. 4. 21. 2 Tim. 2. 25. Shall I come to you with a rod c. and in meeknesse instructing c. These are full Scriptures for ordering any Church government These are good Laws but then men must be rightly in Commission for ruling by them and people rightly ordered and disposed for such rules as in all other Laws and Kingdoms But what is this to your purpose till your Government appeare to be all Christs To that of the ignorance of the people which you would have for a reason of expedition rather then susponsion that they may practically know it I answer In practicall godlinesse the Scripture-way is not so Things must first be known before practically known or else the obedience can be but mixt blind and Popish Who can practically obey taking practically in a Scripture-sense that is with knowledge till they know and be perswaded Indeed in things civill c or morall practice may bring in knowledge habits may be acquiâ—ed and gotten by Acts a man may grow temperate by practising temperance and civilly obedient practising civill obedience But it is not so in Spirituals there habits go before acts spirituall infusions before practices And for the amiablenesse of it look into other Reformed Kingdoms and see what power of godlinesse is there by reason of it Do we not see the huge bodies of Nations very sinfull corrupt formall For Scotland our Brethrens preaching and watchfulnesse it may be more powerfull in a Reformation upon them then their Government And further I deny not but a Government of that nature may much reforme the outward man So may a meer prudentiall Government a meer civill Government if
sincerely executed The Romans had a very moral people under their Yoke when their laws were well executed Prelacy and Bishops had a Government which was Antichristian yet by an exact execution could chastise the outward man in some measure For your other reason That my Texts make against not only the suspending for a time but for ever I answer It is true Principles and circumstances considered For if neither the Government be Christs nor the people Nationally a Church when can you settle it And if there be no Gospell-promises that people shall fall in so nationally as the Iews did excepting some that concerne the world in general as Isai 49. 22. then how or when will you settle or what will you settle or upon whom And for the Texts you commend to me for preaching 1 Thes 5. 12. c. they all concern peoples obedience to their Elders and Rulers they are very materiall and pertinent to that And I shall in requitall commend some other backe to you as those of not lording it over the Heritage Against preeminence as helpers of your faith of service and ministery We are your servants we entreat you and beseech you not seeking our own things not for filthy lusre but of a ready mind c. We must consider Scripture must be taken in the wholenesse and entirenesse of it and we must not only mind people of their obedience but Elders and Ministers of their service duty Ministery humility self-deniall c. And thus in a just distribution deale out both to Ministers and people their measure Master Ley's Resolution page 12. Strange that he should plead for a delay in establishing of Reformation from the Covenant wherein we are bound to endeavour it sincerely really c. and more strange under the title of Popery too which in the next Article of Popery is disavowed Reply Not so strange as you make it for we are covenanted to endeavour a setting up the Government not a Government that is as it is expounded in the Article the Government or Reformation according to the Word of God c. not a Government or Reformation of any other sort So as I plead for a delay only in setting up a Discipline not the Discipline or more plainly that the Discipline be such that the covenanters may not violate that Article wherein they are bound to do every thing according to the Word and so prove unfaithfull in their covenant while they are most zealous for it There was such a kind of mistake in the Jews who would have stoned the Lord of the Sabbath in zeale to the Sabbath and following after righteousnesse yet did not attain to the righteousnesse of God And for the title of Popery which I put upon such obedience which you say cannot be because discovered in the next Article of the Covenant I answer The Popery is not in the covenant but in the Interpretations upon it and the mistaken practice of it which is the thing I only aver O! How soon may we be Popish under a Covenant against it What are the maintenance of Ministers by Tythes Jewish and Popish undeniably and yet no notice of this at all I had as great a Tythe once as another but I could not hold it so neither by Covenant nor Gospell Nor do I taxe the Parliament but those who are betrusted to commend Spirituall grievances to their Senate c. Brethren let us lay down these grievances Countries and Famalies are burdened Let not the Ministers have their hooks abroad in every thing of the peoples like Elies sons We know the Kingdoms of Scotland and the Netherlands take their Tythes to maintain their wars and will not let their preachers live by decimation bur by pension And methinks you that professe ingenuity should be so candid to distinguish where you see I distinguish and not to force on constructions of this nature which neither any thing of mine nor the Covenant will beare And for what you say concerning the composers and penners of the Covenant I am willingly silent I would not aggravate any thing against a Brother as you are which might be only a failing in your Pen. Master Ley's Resolution pag. 12 13. For that he saith of peoples implicite obedience c. of their being devoted to any thing the State sets up by Statutes cannot be for these reasons Because as in the former Reason Instruction must go before Because for that of their being devoted it makes against setting up Doctrine as well as Discipline and Authority of Parliament as well as Authority of Ministery They not Ministers make Statutes Reply To your first That instructions must go before I have answered to this before as you expounded it before One word more will suffice What kind of instruction is it you mean but authoritative compulsive instruction such as the Schoolmasters even your own instance and here most pertinent who teaches and whips every one of those that will not understand as well as he Something an unreasonable way of correction in matters of pure beleefe and conscience and best amongst boys as your instance implies Men of Scripture-consciences cannot beare it And for that you say it makes against Doctrine as well as Discipline Yea in some sort it is granted for neither Doctrine nor Discipline ought to be forced but in a Gospell-way And for that you say it makes against the Parliament because they make Statutes I answer Nothing makes against a Legislative power which reduces it to ruder and clearer and free Principles And thus the Parliament very justly argues in all their Remonstrances touching the King while they go about to reduce him to his just Rights from those exorbitances he suffers himselfe to be brought into For instance He that wishes the Parliament might only proceed in a way not grieving the Spirit nor hazzarding the persecution or Truth nor oppressing any Gospell-principle to which they are covenanted not keeping on in any sin of former Parliaments of severe imposing in matters of Religion so controvertible Is not he I say that so wishes a better friend to Parliaments Laws and Statutes then those of contrary Principles Nay I must professe that to me that very one Article of Reforming to the Word of God most providentially inserted is an Article of Caution both against imposing and punishing lest through want of a cleare discerning we be found violaters of that we covenant to maintain and ought to be sadly considered by all Master Ley's Resolution page 12 13. His second reason of experience That the speedy setling c. takes little root but in the outward man c. concluding pathetically Why do not daies speak and multitude of years teach knowledge In answer 1. That the fault was not in over-speedy setling but in the choyce of a wrong Government 2. Because the Doctrine goeth on with Discipline and so the power of the Word may go deep into the conscience as a Schoolmaster who teaches and corrects 3.
acknowledge and yet that there is a Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbytery which are but Prudentiall and humane or mixed Judicatures according to such a distinction and yet are allowed by them a Power Supreme and coercive to the Divine Right of the Congregationall Presbytery which is the first and immediate subject of the Divine Right of Presbytery as they themselves acknowledge And now whether doe not their owne principles controll that pretended Divine Right they plead for and set up a Presbytery of Charity and Prudence over the Presbytery in the particular Congregation which they say is only of Divine Right 4. How can that Presbytery whose constitution is so questionable challenge such a Divine Right As first their Presbyters or first constituting Principles are ordained by a questionable power viz. that of Bishops Their Ruling-Elders by a power as questionable viz. by a Rule or Ordinance of Parliament prudentiall for triall for election because of the generall corruption in this Kingdome both in Ministers and people not by that very Apostolicall Scripture-Rule or Institution of Jesus Christ Their Congregations Parishionall and of politick constitution not Congregationall according to Scripture Their way of constituting this present Presbytery extraordinary by such an Assembly without precept or example for such a Way in the whole New Testament from whence the whole Order of that dispensation ought to be framed and not from the Law or Old Testament or some cases of necessity in the State or Church of Israel by way of Analogy as they say in their Modell to the Parliament The Primitive Elders and Apostles were qualified immediately from the Spirit with gifts proper to such a Ministration which these Presbyters and Elders being not but most by gifts and habits of Art and Science acquired by industry therefore these present Presbyters cannot challenge the same power for Church-Censures without the same Spirit gifting them and anointing them to such a power and administration in the Church but ought to be content meerly with a mixed and partly prudentiall power because of the mixture of their anointing and gifts if they will needs have such a Government set up for Christ's which is not all Christs and most of that all very questionable whether of Christ or no. For all their proofs alleadged from Scripture for the Presbytery by Divine Right or of such Presbyters as were ordained either by Christ himself as the Apostles or by a power from the Apostles or from such who in that power received from the Apostles did ordaine or by a power in the Church or Congregation preceding such a power and accompanying such a power Now this present Presbytery can neither make it selfe appeare to be so purely ordained nor have they the Church or Congregationall power so preceding or accompanying such an Ordination nor is that act of Imposition of hands by which their present Presbyters stand Ministers a meere signe of setting apart or meerly significative but an Institution for gifts to be conferred under the Law it was an empty and bare Rite but under the Gospell it cannot be proved to be such an empty Rite Gospell-signes being but few full and ministeriall to the spirit not meerly significatively-visible as the Institutions and Rites under the Law were So as all being thus questionable still in this present Presbytery how can they so Apostolically challenge such a Divine Right their present constitutions being mixt questionable fallible not one and the same with that primitive pure certaine constitutions and practices Whereas it appears in their Scripture-proofs that both in Jerusalem Ephesus Crete c. the Presbyters and Elders did constitute c. and were most consulted with and advised and therefore they assume the same power and so force out rather then prove out their frame of their present Presbytery from such practices I desire the Brethren to tell us whether the Word of the Gospell was then wholly in Scripture or writing but partly in the Spirit and gifts or teaching and therefore the Eldership of the Churches then were so gifted as to direct constitute advise and from the ministration of gifts in the Eldership c. the Institutions formes and Rules were given out into Scripture or writing which Scripture or written Word is now in the place of that infallible Primitive Eldership and therefore for any Presbytery or Eldership to assume now such a power as the first did they doe not only without warrant substitute themselves to such a Presbytery or Eldership which stood by another anointing or spirit of gifts then themselves doe but they sit downe in the throne with the very Scripture or written Word of God casting a shadow upon the glory and infallibility of that Word by that present authority and power which they now challenge in the interpretation of that Word in their Presbytery because by such a sure and certaine power as Divine Right allowes them they having not a sure and infallible Spirit for Church-censures or the execution of such a power may put forth a certaine sure executive power by an uncertaine unsure and fallible spirit And so how proportionable a power of Divine Right is with a Spirit not purely Divine and how proportionable a power of Church-censures acted by a gift not purely the Spirit 's but rather the Vniversities and Schooles and to joyne such an Eldership so with the infallible Word or Scripture which for want of that primitive or pure anoynting by gifts shall controule the pure Word of Truth by an Interpretation lesse then Truth I leave to all the world of beleevers to judge How such a visible power and Judge as a Nationall Assembly of such a Presbytery can be set up which must judge all the Churches and Congregations of Christ all the Magistracy and State-power in the Kingdom they assuming to themselves a spirit of judging and discerning of sins And whether by this power the Parliament of England shall not fall under the cognisance interpretation and censure of such an Assembly for some sins which they as a Civill power may commit especially dealing in Ecclesiasticall causes And then how far such a Nationall Assembly may manage such crimes to the heightning of their own interest and to the troubling the interest of the State amongst the people I let all judg who know how the same visible Ecclesiasticall Judge is condemned by all the Reformed Kingdoms under another notion viz. of the Antichrist and Pope and Councels And how that Antichristian power and Judge in Ecclesiasticals hath troubled this and other Kingdoms to the imbroiling them by excommunications into Wars and commotions as in our Histories c. and hath at length taken up other weapons then the Word to make good their Ecclesiasticall censures and interests And whether this visible forme of Classicall Provinciall Nationall Oecumenicall be any other then the like Papall Episcopall power differing only in forme in Consistoriall Provinciall Nationall Oecumenicall Counsels and Synods the like spirit
those that eat flesh and those that eat herbs for those that regarded a day and those that regarded it not for those that used milke and those that eat stronger meat for those that were zealous of the Law and those that were more in the Gospell to be one or together or to please one another to edefication Did Paul bid the eaters of flesh call the eaters of herbs hereticks or them that regarded a day the others that regarded it not hereticks or them that were zealous of the Law them that were of the Gospell Heretickes or thus Flesh-eaters and Day-regarders and Legalists as we doe Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists That there is so much in every one of these wherein they appeare to stand in need of one another that the Presbyterian cannot say I have no need of the Independent nor the Independent I have no need of the Presbyterian nor either of them say we have no need of you Anabaptist For the Presbyterian may need the Independent because he is for a purer Communion of Saints then he They both the Anabaptist because he baptizeth Beleevers as the Apostles alwayes did They both the Seekers because none of them have these Ordinances by the first patterne in the Word as by Apostleship and Baptisme of Spirit Nor these the Presbyterians because there may be some gift some power of the Spirit some principle of Administration in them which may help the Body and the Common-wealth or Parliament All these because they are all members of the same State That Love is the more excellent way revealed then either the way of Gifts or Ordinances and therefore no gift or ordinance is to be preferred before love Love neither envies nor vaunts nor behaves it self unseemly but beareth all things and hopeth all things and this is that love which is of God and extends it self as God and comprehends and embraces men not as this man or that man meerely not as a man of this or that opinion but because it is love from the fountaine of infinite love it flowes upon all and hath a kind of peace with all and loves all God is love and therefore just and unjust good and bad are taken into something of him seeing he giveth to all things life and breath and all things and the more this love is amongst men the more they love as God and the more large in love and universall in love That love which is only to one kind is but low narrow and naturall the meer love of creatures as creatures but that love which can love those of other kinds as Presbyterian Anabaptist Independent is not that love of a creature only so as the more we love any that are not as we are the lesse we love as men and the more as God That the first and most glorious and spirituall unity is that of spirit and therefore things that are outward formall and perish with using nor any Ordinance were ever made an hinderance to that unity let not Christians think they cannot be One nor in any communion of spirit till they be like one another in the body first and in the Ordinance first which it may be they never shall be for we see God hath hid outward Ordinances deepest from discovery so as they that find most find but pieces and parcels and one one part and another another part and another another part all finde not all because all should not want one another and we find these things last because there was lesse need how many hundred yeares from Christ and nothing of these yet Christ was knowne and some of the more spirituall glory of Christ and if Christians should not be one till they be like one another how little would the peace be even as little as that unity they contend for and what peace would it be but that of flesh and forme the peace of Ordinances not of Spirit I desire this may be considered that according to the first patterne the Baptisme of the Spirit or Gifts and Ordinances were together never asunder from the Apostles times to the falling away and let there be a Word held out for Ordinances by themselves without the like Gifts or else let us be in more unity of Spirit then we are Christians are truly so alike and so one and the same as they are one in Christ in union and spirit one in God as they partake of the Divine nature of the Image of Christ as they are branches in the same Vine members in the same body so God loves all his as they are of him born of the incorruptible seed being the glory of the second Adam quickned by that life that eternall life God looks not nor loves not as men are Presbyterians or Independents or Anabaptists we commonly love so who begin to love at the outward man before the inward God loves us first as in Christ and loves us because in Christ God loves according to the figure of himself in us and so we should love one another if we will love according to God let Papists love Papists only and Prelates love Prelates only because they are so let us love according to that of spirit we discerne by the same spirit in each according to that of love faith meeknesse patience purity faithfulnesse glory which are the fruits of the Spirit let us love as we judge and that is in spirit as spiritually discerning according to fruits of righteousnesse and holinesse not according to this and that forme which is carnall for as he is not a Jew which is one outwardly no more is he a Christian which is one outwardly circumcision and Christianity is not of the letter but of the spirit so as loving thus we should not thinke nor speake against these and these because they are not Presbyterians as we are because they beleeve not as we beleeve and think not as we think Were it not madnesse to fight because we are not like one another in the face in feature in complection in disposition in a word because we are not alike in body and what were it lesse to sight with one another because we are not alike in the Spirit in soule in judgement in conscience in opinion If the whole body were the eye where were the hearing If the whole were hearing where were the smelling The lesse we endeavour this bond of peace the more we shall take in new fuell to our old fire the more advantage and opportunity will be opened to let in the old remainders of the war amongst us which shall be as a train of powder to kindle us into new contentions and thus new divisions will spring out from the ashes of the old and those whom we conquer one day will be conquerors amongst us another day and we shall not know them from some of our selves and all our victories and conquests will be but the enemies design of recruiting our misery they whom we subdue finding the veine of enmity running
then I see you are forgive me this injury as the Apostle saies if I accounted you better then you desire to be Love hopeth all things and beleeveth all things And Paul it seems was better perswaded of Agrippa then there was cause and quoted some of the Heathen Poets better then they intended them as it seems I have done with you that being the greatest thing you lay to my charge Master Gataker 1 That our Antinomian Free grace is not the same with that of the Prophets in the Old Testament and the Apostles in the New 2 That in saying the Old Testament was rather a draught of a Legall dispensation then an Evangelicall or Gospell-one was to taxe the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace 3 That in saying the Ministers now by the qualifications they preach do over-heat Free-Grace as your poore soules cannot take it doth make the Prophets Iuglers and deluders of the people Answer To your first That our Antinomian Free Grace is not the same with the Prophets and Apostles Why do you tell us of Antinomians of Prophets and Apostles Free-grace It is not the Free-grace of any of these Free-grace is of God in Jesus Christ Prophets and Apostles are but dispencers of it and Ambassadours of it and Ministers of it and yet Ambassadours not in the same habit The Prophets preached Grace in a rough and hairy garment or more Legally the Apostles in a more clear and bright habit in the revelation of the mystery of Christ The Law was given by Moses but Grace and Truth by Iesus Christ I could as easily say Master Gatakers Free-grace and the Legalists Free-grace as he sayes Our Antinomian Free-grace but such words and reproaches make neither you nor I speake better truth To your Second That in saying the Old Testament straine was rather Legall then Gospell taxes the Ministery of the Prophets for no Free-grace That is according to your Inference only Because the Spirit sayes the Law was given by Moses therefore will you put upon the Spirit that Moses taught or gave out nothing but Law Because I say The Old Testament was a Legall ministration therefore do I say there was no Free-grace in it or doe I not rather say Therefore it was Free-grace legally dispenced or preached or ministred Would not such Inferences be bad dealing with the Spirit and will it be faire dealing with me I wonder you who pretend to write against me as having not dealt justly with your sense will deale so unjustly with mine and commit the same sin your self in the very time of your reproving mine You may see what this Logick hath brought you to To deceive your selfe as well as your neighbour Can you cast out my mote and behold a beame in your own eye I have printed all you quoted let the Reader judge from this and compare it with the rest of my Book The whole frame of the Old Testament was a draught of Gods anger at sin And God in this time of the Law appeared only as it were upon tearmes and conditions of reconciltation and all the Worship then and acts of Worship then as of Prayer Fasting Repentance c. went all this way according to God under that appearance And in this straine saith he runnes all the Ministery of the Prophets too in their exhortations to Duty and Worship as if God were to be appeased and entreated and reconciled and his love to be had in way of purchase by Duty and Doing and Worshipping So as under the Law the efficacy and power was put as it were wholly upon the Duty and Obedience performed as if God upon the doing of such things was to be brought into tearmes of peace mercy and forgivenesse so as their course and service then was as it were a working for life and reconciliation Do not these words and termes inserted As it were and in the way and as if and is it were cleare me from such positive and exclusive assertions of Free-Grace as you would make me speak To the Third That in saying the Preachers with their qualifications over-heate Free-grace I doe by that make the Prophets deluders of the people c. I answer That way of preaching the Prophets used pressing as you say Repentance Reformation Humiliation and with Commination and the Law c. was but according to the way and method and straine the Spirit taught them under the Old Testament but if the Prophets should have held forth Jesus Christ under the New Testament and when Christ was manifested in the flesh with such vails over him and so much Law over him as they did before they had sinned against the glory of that ministration as well as some of you who bring Christ back againe under the cool shadow of the Law and make that Sun of Righteousnesse that he warmes not so many with the love of him as he would doe if ye would let them behold with open face as in a glasse the glory of the Lord and if you would give his beams more liberty to shine upon them doth not the ministration of the Spirit exceed in glory Nor were the Prophets deluders of the people then because it was the peoples time of Pupillage and being under Bondage they were shut up under the Law till faith came they were under Tutors and Governors till the time appointed So as that was truth and right dispensation in them to preach so much of the Law of curse and judgement c. as they did and of Repentance and Reformation in that straine they did But in ye who pretend to preach Christ come in the flesh ye who pretend to be Preachers in the Kingdome of God and so greater then the greatest Prophet then he that was more then a Prophet in ye such preaching were delusion because it were not as the truth is in Christ nor according to that glory of the Gospell to that grace revealed to that manifestation of Christ in the flesh to that ministration of glory but rather to those deceitfull workers the Apostle speaks on to those that troubled them with words subverting their souls who preached Law and Gospell Circumcision and Christ Master Gattaker 1 That we gird at those that bid men repent and be humbled and be sorry for sinnes and pray c. as Legall Teachers 2 That Christ preached repentance humiliation self-deniall conversion renouncing all in purpose this is not the same Gospell with that they preach as in Free-grace pag. 125 126 152 153 163 191 193. Answer To your first for our girding at those that bid men repent and be humbled c. as Legall teachers If ye presse repentance and humiliation legally why wonder ye at such words as Legall teachers Will ye doe ill and not be told of your faults must we prophesie smooth things to you and say ye are able Ministers of the New Testament when we are perswaded that truth is detained in unrighteousnesse We blame not any that bid men
are not so to him who hath chosen them nor to him in whom they are chosen And this is the mystery why Christ is offered to Sinners or Rogues or whatsoever you call them they are as touching the Election beloved for the Fathers sake I speak of such to whom Christ gives power to receive him and beleeve on him and become the Sons of God and Christ findes them out in their sins and visits them who sit in the region and shadow of death and them that are darknesse he makes light in the Lord. To your fourth That God may be provoked to wrath by his Children I pray Can God be as the Son of man Is there any variablenesse or shadow of change in him Can he love and not love Doth he hate persons or sins Is he said to chastise as Fathers otherwise then in expressions after the manner of men because of the infirmities of our flesh must we conceive so of God as of one another Can he be provoked for sins done away and abolished Hath Christ taken away all the sin of his Hath he borne all upon his body or no Speakes he of anger otherwise then by way of Allusion and Allegory as a Father c. And is that He is a Father after the fashion of men Or speaks he not in the Old Testament according to the Revelation of himselfe then and in the New Testament of himselfe now only because our infirmity and his own manner of appearing which is not yet so but we may beare him in such expressions and yet not so in such expressions but we may see more of him and his love and the glory of Salvation in other expressions and not make up such a love as you commonly do of benevolence and complacence Did David and Peter as you say make up their peace with God by Repentance Is there any that makes peace but one Jesus Christ who makes peace through the bloud of his Crosse Can Repentance make peace Or Obedience make peace Is there any sacrifice for sin but that which was once offered even he that appeared in the end of the world to put away sin by the sacrifice of himselfe And was not this called by the Apostle One sacrifice for sins for ever Repentance Obedience c. may make way for the peace made already for sin that is in such workings of the Spirit the love of God in the face of Iesus Christ may shine upon the Soule more freely and fully and the more the Spirit abounds in the fruits of it the more joy and peace flows into the Soule and the more the Soule looks Christ in the face so as peace with God is not made but more revealed by the Spirit in obedience and love c. To your fifth That God loves us for his own graces in us I thought he had loved us too in himselfe and from that love given Christ for us and yet loved us in Christ â—op Can any thing without God be a cause of Gods love Doth God love as we love one another from complexions or features without or loves he not rather thus God is love and therefore we are made and Redeemed and Sanctified not because we are Sanctified therefore he loves us We love him because he first loved us he loved us because he loved us and not because we love him not because of any Spirituall complexion or feature in us because of his Image upon us that is but an earnest of his love to us that is only given us because he loved us he loves us from his will not from without for though we are like him yet we are not himselfe and he loves us as in Christ and himselfe Whereas you say God is as man and as a Father I hope you meane not as in himselfe but as in his wayes of speaking and appearing to us and if so we are agreed But your taking things more in the Letter then the Spirit makes your Divinity lesse Divine and your conceptions more like things of men then of God This makes the Gospell so legall and carnall when we rise little higher then the bare Letter or Scripture not the inspiration by which it came all Scripture being given by inspiration To your sixth That Faith is not a persâ—â—sion more or lesse of Gods love and that all may have that I pray mistake not Can all beleeve from the Spirit Can all be more or lesse spiritually perswaded Do I speake of any perswasion of Christs love which is not Spirituall Deceive not your selfe nor your Reader nor wrong not your Author or do I speak of Faith abstracted from all Repentance Obedience c why deale ye thus When you say men may beleeve too suddenly because I presse men to beleeve and you instance in Simon Magus Was he blamed for beleeving too suddenly or for mis-beleeving because he beleeved the gifts of the Holy Ghost were to be bought with money Can any beleeve too soon if some mis-beleeve or beleeve falsly what is that to them that truly beleeve Shall the unbeliefe of some make the Faith of God without effect God forbid Can Christ be too soon a Saviour to us Can the Fountaine be too soon opened for sin Can the riches of Christ be too soon brought home Paul counts it an honour to be first in Christ Salute Andronicus and Iunia who were in Christ before me and the Church in Prâ—scilla's house and Epenetus who were the first fruits of Achaiâ— unto Christ To your seventh That Christ bids us repent as well as beleeve yea first repent Yea but will you take the Doctrine of the Gospell from a part or summary of it as you say and not from the Gospell in its fulnesse and glory and Revelation Will ye gather Doctrines of Truth as Ruth for a while did gleanings here one eare of Corne and there another and not rather go to the full sheafe to Truth in the Harvest and Vintage Will you pluck up Truth by pieces and parcels in Repentance and Obedience and Selfe-dentall and not reveale these as Christ may be most glorified and the Saints most Sanctified and these gifts most Spiritualized and improved Will ye Preach Doctrines as they lie in the Letter or in their Analogie and inference of Truth The Papists Preach Christs very flesh and bloud to be in the Wine And why but because they looke but halfe way to the demonstration of Truth in the Spirit they shut up Christ in one Notion and not in another and so loses the Truth by revealing it in that Forme of words which is too narrow for it and too short of the height and depth and length of it You say We are to try our Faith So say I too if you would not pick and choose in my Book to make me some other thing then you find me But you mean we must try our Faith for assurance as your other words imply and so far I say too but you
will not heare me speak But you would have the best assurance from tryall but so far I say not as you say is that the best Spirituall assurance that is from our own Spirits in part or from Gods alone from our own reasoning or his speaking Can a Spouse argue better the love of her friend from his Tokens and Bracelets or from his owne word and Letter and Seale One of the three that beare witnesse on Earth is the Spirit and in whom after ye believe ye were sealed with that Spirit of promise Can any Inference or Consequence drawn from Faith or Love or Repentance or Obedience in us so assure us as the breathing of Christ himself sealing assuring perswading convincing satisfying I will hear what God the Lord will say for he will speak peace to his Servants A Saint had rather hear that voice then all its own Inferences and Arguments which though they bring something to perswade yet they perswade not so answerably till the voyce speake from that excellent glory To your eighth That I clog men with conditions of receiving as well as you of repenting c. I answer I preach not Receiving as a condition as you do Repenting I Preach Christ the Power and Life and Spirit that both stands and knocks and yet opens the doore to himselfe I Preach not Receiving as a gift or condition given or begun for Christ but Christ working all in the Soul and the Soul working up to Christ by a power from himselfe And if you would Preach Repentance and Obedience as no other preceding or previous dispositions we should agree better in the Pulpit then we do in the Presse To your ninth That the sum of my Divinity is That men may be saved whither they Repent or no or beleeve or no. I answer Should I say to you The sum of your Divinity is this That Faith and Repentance and Obedience are helps with Christ and conditions with Christ to mans Salvation and that Salvation in not free but conditionall the Covenant of Grace is as it were a Covenant of Workes Should I do well in this to upbraib you and those of your way Say not then that I thinke men may be saved that never repent nor believe Why do you thus set up and counterfeit opinions and then engrave our Names upon them Could not I piece up your Book so if I would be unfaithfull as make ye appeare as great an Hereticke as any whom you thus fancy because I preach not Repentance or Faith as you do because I make all these as gifts from Gods love in Christ not as gifts to procure us God or his love or Christ because I make all these the fruits of the Spirit given to such whom Christ hath suffered for to such whom God hath chosen in him because I Preach Faith and Repentance and Obedience in that full Revelation in which they are left as in the New Testament and not in that scaâ—tling of Doctrine as they are meerly and barely revealed in the History of the Gospel or Acts of the Apostles onely where the Doctrine is not so much revealed as the Practise and the Story in Summaries because we Preach thus therefore we are all Antinomians Hereticks men not worthy to live Brethren must ye forbid us to Preach because we follow not with you because we Preach not the Law as ye do nor Faith as ye do nor Repentance as ye do therefore do we not Preach them at all We Preach them all as we are perswaded the New Testament and Spirit will warrant us and as we may make Christ to be the power of all and fulnesse of all as we may exalt him whom God hath exalted at his own right hand And we wish that ye and all that heare us were both almost and altogether as we are except in reproaches CONCLVSION FRom the 29 Page to the last all your Replyes amount not to any thing of substance but of quarrelsome and humorous exceptions and I shall I hope redeem my time better then in making a businesse of things that will neither edify the Writer nor the Reader There are some things you might had you pleased raised up into some Spirituall discourse as that of Works and Signs for assurance c. But you say of your self how becoming such a one as you I leave that you were like an Old Steed which neighs and prances but is past service so as I must take this of your age and infirmity as a fuller Answer or Supplement to what you faile in against me There are two or three things more observable then the rest 1. That you tax me for saying That the markes in Johns Epistles and James are delivered rather as marks for others then our selves to know us by and I affirme it againe not as you say excluding that other of our selves but as I said rather markes for others though for both in their degrees and kindes of manifestation So in James 2. 24. where he saith By Workes a man is Justified not by Faith So in Vers 18. 21. All which set forth Works a signe to others rather then our selves So in 1 John 3. 14. Hereby know we we are passed from death to life because we love the Brethren compared with Ver. 17. 18. shewes That it is a love working abroad in manifestation to the Brethren and yet I exclude not any evidence which the fruits of the Spirit carry in them as in my Book which yet you alleadge to that purpose after you have been quarrelling so long with it pulling my Treatise in pieces to make your selfe worke and then binde it up againe after your owne fashion For your Story of your Lady and your fallacy That she might as well conclude her selfe damned because she was a sinner as one that Christ would save because she was a sinner And durst you thus sport with a poor wounded spirit that perhaps could see little but sin in her selfe to conclude upen Know you not that Christ came to call sinners to save sinners And durst you make use of your Logick to cast such a mist upon the promises to sinners Suppose one should aske you how you gather up your assurance now you are an old man how would you account to us Would you say such a mâ—asure of Faith so much obedience so much love to the Brethren so much Zeale Prayer Repentance and all of unquestionable evidence But if we should go further and question you concerning your failings when you writ in the behalfe of Cards and Dice of the Common-Prayer-Book if we should aske ye of your luxuriarcy in quotations in your Books and Sermons whether all be out of pure zeale no selfishnesse no vain-glory Whether all your Love was without bitternesse to your Brethren of a diverse judgement whom you call Antinomian c. Whether you preached and obeyed all out of love to Iesus Christ and not seeking your own things not making a gaine of
a Kingdom of Israell nor a Church of Israel though too many of you have preached the Old Testament more then the New for what advantage let the Magistrate judge To the Seventeenth That he may in time say as much of justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as of Truth and so to be a Mystery of Iniquity These are but insinuations to the Magistrate and ghosts of Jealousie which you raise And to put an end to such feares when I make Church and State Magistrate and Ministery Gospell-laws and Civill to be both one then challenge me for that opinion But I have learned that Christs Kingdom and the worlds have a severall Policy and that may be a Law in the one which is not to the other And now is it your Inference or my Principle wrongs the Magistrate An Answer in few words to Master Edwards his second Part of the GANGRENA And to the namelesse Author of a Book called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh MAster Edwards the difference betwixt ye both is this You set your name to more then you know as hath been well witnessed and this man dare set his name to nothing You sin without shame and your Partner is ashamed of what he doth Sin is too powerfull in you against Truth because you shew your selfe and Truth is too powerfull for him because he hides himselfe Master Edwards I shall answer you in these few words but first The Lord rebuke thee even the Lord. 1. If the Image of Christ be in any of those you so persecute how can you answer it to Jesus Christ to cast any dirt on the glory of him 2. If God be in any of those you are so much an enemy to how will you answer it to fight against God any thing of God 3. If any of those be the children of the heavenly Father or the little ones of the Gospell It were better that a milstone were hanged about your neck and you cast into the Sea So Christ tels you 4. What is it to sin against the holy Ghost but to hate the Light once known or to blaspheme the works of the Spirit And you once professed to me you had almost been one of those whom you call Hereticks Oh take heed of that sinâ— there is no more Sacrifice for that And how if the works of those you so judge be wrought in the Spirit shall you ever be forgiven in this world or in that to come Read the words and tremble 5. Doth not the Word bid you restore those that are fallen in meeknesse and tell your brother his fault first betwixt you and him And you never yet came to any of them that I could heare of but print proclaime tell stories to the world of all you heare see know Is Christ in this Spirit Is the Gospell in this straine Will this be peace to your soule hereafter 6. Solomon tels us that a man may seem faire in his own tale till his neighbour search out the matter And how dare you then take all things at one hand and not at anothers How dare you have one eare open for complaints and faults and crimes and the other shut against all defence Did ever Justice do this Did you ever call for their accusers face to face Did you ever traverse Testimonies on both sides And dare you judge thus and condemne thus Shall not the Judge of Heaven and Earth make you tremble for this Injustice Shall he not make Inquisition upon your soule for this bloud 7. Is it any other ground or bottome you stand on in this your way of accusing the Brethren but Paul you say named some and the Fathers named some so and Calvin as you told me the other day when I met you And was there ever crime without some Scripture or shadow of the Word Did not Canterbury on the Scaffold preach a Sermon of as much Scripture and Story for what he did as you can for yours if you should ever preach there He thought ye all Hereticks as you do us he thought he might persecute you as you do us and he had a Word from John Baptist for his manner of death and a Word from the Red sea and Israelites for his death and enemies and a Word from Paul for his Changing Laws and Customes and for his crime of Popery he had a Word fâ—â—m them that feared the Romanes would come and take away their Government Thus Satan and Selfe can paint the worst kind of sin Poore soule Is your conscience no better seated then in such aâ—ery apparitious of Scripture and failings of Fathers Do not you heare the Prayers of those soules you wound pleading with God against your sin Are you not in the gall of bitternesse and bond of iniquityâ— Is not your spirit yet flying when none pursues you Are not your dreames of the everlasting burning and of the worme that never dies Have you no gnawings no flashings no lightnings I am afraid of you Your face and complexion shewes a most sadly parched burnt and withered spirit Methought when I called to you the other day in the street and challenged you for your unanswerable Crime against me in the third page of the last Gangrena in setting my name against all the Heresies you reckon which your own soule and the world can witnesse to be none of mine and your own confession to me when I challenged you How were you troubled in spirit and language Your sin was as I thought upon you scourging you checking you as I spoke I told you at parting I hoped we should overcome you by prayer I beleeve we shall pray you either into Repentance or Shame or Judgement â—re we have done with you But Oh might it be Repentance rather till Master Edwards smite upon his thigh and say what have I done For your Anagram upon my name you do but fulfill the Prophesie They shall cast out your name as evill for the Son of mans sake And for your Book of Jeeres and Stories of your Brethren Poore man It will not be long musick in your eares at this rate of sinning For the namelesse Author and his After-reckoning let all such men be doing for me Let them raile revile blaspheme call Hereticks It is enough to me that they write such vanity they dare not own And now let me tell ye both and all such Pensioners to the great accuser of the Brethren Fill up the measure of your iniquity if ye will needs perish whether we will or no. I hope I rest in the bosome of Christ with others of my Brethren raile persecute do your worst I challenge all the powers of hell that set ye on work while Christ is made unto me righteousnesse wisedome sanctification and redemption And I must tell ye further that since any of the light and glory of Christ dawned upon me since first I saw that Morning-Star of righteousnesse any of the brightnesse of the glory in my heart that heart of mine which