Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	church_n	faith_n	scripture_n	5,760	5	6.0597	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A81501	The Discipline and order of particular churches, no novelty. Proved from Scripture, reason, autiquity, and the most eminent modern divines. Or, A discourse of the church, in a scripture notion, with her extent, power and practice, tending to moderate the minds of men, toward dissenters in matters ecclesiastical, and to acquit such from the charge of innovation, faction, separation, schism, and breach of union and peace in the church, who cannot conform in many things to the rules, canons, and practices of others. / By a Lover of truth, peace, unity, and order.	Lover of truth, peace, unity, and order.	1675 (1675)	Wing D1558A; ESTC R174652	61,995	98

whose Ministers ●re made after another manner and imposed upon ●hem Or how can any such convinced Ones have ●o do in Congregations and Ordinances otherwise Ordered and Acting then according to this rule in faith to expect Gods presence and blessing in it how can any knowing these things without renouncing Christ as Lord and Lawgiver in his church own and subscribe to the exercise of this power by others then these Churches much more how can any so convinced enforce others to give subjection to any Usurping this power without sin against Christ Whatsoever is not of Faith is sin so that if we are found in the practice of any thing in these matters not commanded at all or of any thing commanded in other manner then is prescribed by the Law of Christ we cannot groundedly believe for a blessing there Mr. Hooler Eccles Polity in the Preface having no promise for it Nay it is sin if we do but doubt it Rom. 14.22.23 Therefore every one ought to be at liberty till he be convinced and fully perswaded in his own mind er'e he meddle with these things Secondly Surely this then justifies and commends such who being fully perswaded of the truth of the premises do endeavour to regulate their practices in all Church affairs by these rules for the Scripture saith as we have received how ought to walk and to please God so should we abound c. 1 Thes 4.1 and as Tymothy was charged to continue in the things he had learned and had been assured of knowing of whom he had learned them and that from a Child he had known the Holy Scriptures 2 Tim. 3.14 15. So are Saints in general commanded to stand fast and hold the Traditions which they have been taught by word or Epistle 2 Thess 2.15 especially when they have by reading and searching the Scriptures like the Noble Beraeans Act. 17. proved these things to be so and find that the primitive Gospel Churches practised according to this and so trying all things hold fast that which is good and stand fast in the liberty Christ hath left them for in so doing they are lesse like to erre Mark 12.24 do ye not therefore erre not knowing the Scriptures c. And if these have their foundation for their practices here they may boldly say with Paul Act. 24. after the way they call Heresie so worthy I c. believing all things that are written c. Bishop Jewel in his reply to Harding p. 111. alleadgeth these words out of Cyprian lib. 2. Epist 3. speaking of Bishops If any of my Predecessors have not followed or kept that thing which the Lord by his Example and Commandement hath Taught us he for his simplicity may be pardoned but if we wilfully offend there is no pardon for us who are already warned and instructed of the Lord Again that after God hath once opened his truth to us if then we shall continue in error c. And again in p. 144. he quotes Cyprian ad Caecil lib. 2. Epist 3. for these words It behoveth the Religion we professe and our reverence towards God and ●he very place and Office of our Priesthood to keep ●he Truths of the Lords tradition and by the Lords ●dvertisements to correct that thing that by certain ●ath been amisse that when he comes in his Glory ●nd Majesty he may find us to hold what he warn●d to keep that he taught us to do that he did All which words of his presseth an exact keeping to ●he Rules left us when we know them But if it shall be objected that the people of the Churches are unlearned and cannot understand ●criptures and thence 't is they mistake and wrest ●criptures that it is for learned Men who understand Tongues c. to give the meaning of Scriptures and that others ought to submit to their judgments herein and to practise as the learned Fathers and Doctors of the Church have done before us See Helis Serm. of the abuse of Difficult places of of Scripture Matth. 1● 10.11 For Answer hereto briefly First The Apostle by the term unlearned intends not unskilful in Tongues nor in humane learning but unskilful in the Spiritual meaning of the Holy Ghost in the Scripture We know the Gospel is hid to some to them that are lost c. though otherwise never so learned wise or great and to others it is given to know Secondly That in this sence the Scripture is not understood by the help of the greatest Art Skil of Tongues nor the largest humane Wisdome of any this can only reach the letter but by the help of the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 2.14 The things of God are foolishness to the Natural man nor can he know them because they are spiritually understood o● discerned Now surely none will deny but that 〈◊〉 man may be very learned and wise in humane things See the Conference between Raynolds and Hart c. 2. p. 58. cap. 6. p. 2●7 and have great skill in Tongues and ye● be but a natural man still that is not having the Spirit of God by whom spiritual things are opene● to us where is the Wise where is the Scribe wher● is the Disputer of this world and God chose th● foolish things of this world to confound the wise c. that no flesh should Glory in his presence Matth. 12.7 c. 13.10 11.12 Luk. 19.41 42. Joh. 3.10 Act. 13.17 27. Act. 26.9 a● is abundantly clear in 1 Cor. 1.18 19 20.27 28 29. And this was apparent amongst the Jew● their most learned men Scribes and Pharisees chief Priest c. with all their learning and pretence to greater knowledge than the rest of th● Jews could not find out the meaning of the Prophets concerning Christ but Crucified Him and Christ said of them that they were the blind leading the blind and that they were therefore blind because they thought they did see above others although these were as confident that they were the only knowing men as the learned Doctors and Rulers of Churches of latter ages have been of themselves And the contrary on the other hand ●o 9.39 Bish Jewel's Reply to Harding p. 533. 526 Luk. 24.44 45. John 8.12 31. Joh. 6.14 Eph. 1.17 13. 1● Epist Joh. 2.27 we see men of no knowledge in Tongues c. nor much worldly Wisdom when Christ by his Spirit had opened their understanding they then understood the Scriptures And for this end amongst others was the Holy Ghost promised to the followers of Christ he himself said that such as believed should not sit in darkness but have the light of life that his Spirit should take of his and shew it to them And the Apostle saith the anointing which they should receive should teach them c. Thirdly That this Spirit of God is neither promised nor given to the learned Doctors able Schoolmen or Governours of Churches only but is promised to all believers in general and so bestowed upon all

Christs members in common though in different Measures as the Spirit pleaseth and many times more abundantly upon such who had least of outward greatness of skill in the tongues or humane Wisdom that God might be glorified the more and that no flesh might glory as in 1 Cor. 1. ch 2. before mentioned doth clear therefore such may come to the knowledge of Christs mind in the Scriptures hereby as well as learned men Each part of which answer Bishop Jewel in his reply to Harding Bishop Carleton in his little Book before quoted and others fully maintain We shall transcribe some few things first as to this It is not learning but the Spirit of God that makes men able to understand Scriptures Bishop Jewel p. 216. he saith out of Tertul. Contra Hermogenem that knowledge of Philosophy and affiance of learning hath caused Divisions and Heresies in the Church and therefore he called the Philosophers the Patriarchs of Hereticks Again in p. 526 527. out of Chrysostome he saith that to understand Gods Word we need no silogismes or knowledge of Logick Husbandmen old men c. do understand it that Julian charged the Christians that their women were so learned in the Scriptures and again p. 532. he saith out of Epiphanius lib. 2. that only to the children of the Holy Ghost all the Holy Scriptures are plain and clear and again p. 434 that it is true that flesh and blood is not able to understand the will of God without speciall revelation Christ opened the understanding of his Disciples that without this speciall help of Gods Spirit the word of God is unto the reader be he never so wise or learned saith he as the Vision of a Sealed Book c. Secondly as to this that the Spirit of God is not given to the Doctors rulers of the Churches or Learned men only but also to all the members of Christ in common in some measure and that they ought to search the Scriptures may understand them by the help of this Spirit as well as the learned who have skill in tongues and humane learning Cardinall Cajetan though a Papist at the Councel of Trent affirmed this That a sence of Scripture against the stream of the Doctors is not to be rejected if agreeing with other Scriptures For God saith he hath not tyed the sence to the old Doctors Concil Trident. lib. 2. p. 158. Bishop Jewel in the same Reply to Harding p. 205. saith That Chrysostome did perswade his people to read the Scripture That they are plain and easie that the Ignorant and Simple men by prayer unto God may attain unto the knowledge of them without any Master or Teacher by himself alone and he there quotes Chrisostome in Math. Hom. 2. in Ps 43. ad Colos Hom. 9. Contra Anomaeos Hom. 3. in Gen. Hom. 35. and for these words also If thou use to pray diligently See Raynolds his Conference with Hart c. 2. p. 62. there is no cause thou shouldest desire the teaching of thy fellow servant for God himself will abundantly enlighten thy mind without any interpreter and again it cannot be that any man with great study fervent desire reading the Scripture should be destitute though he want the teaching of man yet will God himself from above enter into our hearts and lighten our minds and our reason and open things that are hid and become our teacher of such things we know not Again in p. 519. 531. 532. 534. c. he alledgeth many Fathers to prove that the people ought to be diligent in searching Scriptures both men and women That that is the way to keep from Heresies That such who search cannot be deceived And in p. 526. 527. he saith again out of Gerson That the weighing and consideration of Faith pertaine as well to others as to the Prelates yea to the Lay People and that better many times saith he then to many Priests And that we ought rather to believe a Lay man if he bring the authority of Scripture then the Pope and a generall Councill And again p. 532. he speaking of the understanding of the Scriptures saith That in these things the Spirit of God is bound neither to sharpness of Wit nor to abundance of Learning oft-times the unlearned saith he seeth that thing that the learned cannot see And again after p. 534. having said before That without the speciall helps of Gods Spirit the word of God is as a sealed Book c He there adds these words That this revelation is not speciall to some but generall to all the members of Christ And he here blames Mr. Harding for having so low an esteem of the Vulgar people as the Scribes and Pharisees had of the followers of Christ These are accursed not knowing the law said they Though the Apostles saith he calls them Citizens with the Saints and of the houshold of God Again p 537. That the learned Fathers have evermore thought that in such perillous times of dissention in Judgment it is most behoofull for the people to have recourse unto the Scriptures Act. 17. And out of Chrysostome in opere imperfecto Hom. 49. upon these words ye shall see the Abominations c. That Christian men who will be assured of the true Faith must resort to nothing but Holy Scriptures else saith he they will be offended and perish and not knowing which is the true Church and by meanes thereof they shall fall into the abomination of the desolation And out of Chrysost Hom. 49. That we may in no wise believe the Churches themselves unlesse they say and do such things as be agreeable to Scriptures Again p. 544. See Ray●●●ds Co●ference with Hart. c. 2 6● he saith out of Theodoret de natura hominis lib. 5. That you may commonly see not only the teachers of the people and Rulers of the Churches but also Taylors Smiths c. do understand the Principles of our Religion women who live of their labour Servants Husbandmen Ditchers c. can reason of the Holy Trinity of ●e Creation of the world of the nature of man a ●eat deal more skillfully than either Plato or A●stotle was ever able to do and that Origen said to ●s Hearers thus when I speak what I think meet Origen in Joshua Hom. 21. Bishop Hooper in his Declaration of the ten Comman fol. 46. Jer. 44.17 18. Ezek. 20.18 ●amine and judge you whether it be well or other●ise Upon which words the Bishop concludes ●at in old times the Vulgar people were able not ●ly to understand the Scriptures but also to judge their Preachers And as to our Fathers exam●e he saith p. 542. that our Fathers examples are ●t alwayes sufficient Rules for saith he they ●e been led in Ignorance Many Hereticks saith 〈◊〉 plead nothing but that they were born in liv● in that they now practise and received from ●eir Fathers So much of this Bishop here A word out of Bishop Carleton and we shall con●de this

He in the same Book called a Directi● to know the true Church p. 23. 24. 36. 37. ●● 39. 44. 46. 47. 53. See t●● Conference between Raynolds and Hart c. 2. p. 45 46. there affirms and proves 〈◊〉 many Fathers that the Scripture is the judge of ●ntroversies that we must not take what the ●urch teacheth without limitation For saith 〈◊〉 she hath a Rule to teach by the Scriptures and 〈◊〉 long as she teacheth by this she is to be heard That is a manifest sliding from the true Faith and an ●ident sign of Pride to reject any thing that is writ● or to bring in any thing which is not written ●at we should not regard this or that mans sayings 〈◊〉 seek all these things out of Scriptures Optatus l. 5. contra Parmenian Donat. Cited by Raynolds in the same Conference p. 402. from ●ich we must in nothing depart And of the Pa●sts he saith That they presume that they deal ●th simple men who may not examine their Do●ines and therefore he adviseth us lest we should 〈◊〉 deceived to look to our Rule which is the Scrip●re Now from all this we have transcribed we may conclude this Objection to be fully answere● and the Matter undenyable That other Membe● of the Church besides Learned Doctors skilled 〈◊〉 the Tongues and Governors of the Churches ma● understand the Scriptures by the help of the Spi● of God That they ought to read them a● search them for this end That God will give 〈◊〉 them his Spirit to open their Understandings a● sometimes more to those than to the Learned D●ctors That Learning and Worldly Wisdom ca●not unfold Scripture without the Spirit of Go● That it is no safe way to follow our Fathers step● no nor the Rules of Councels nor Churches a● further than they follow the Scriptures That it 〈◊〉 safe in times of dissention in Judgment to make 〈◊〉 the Scriptures That the Scripture is the Judge 〈◊〉 Controversies Now we know it is in vain f● unlearned men to read and impossible to search t● Scriptures or try Doctrines by them if M● learned in the Tongues cannot reach to understa● them or may not conceive of the sence of the● and give their Judgment of them as their ow● Rule for their own Practices And surely it is n● ground enough for any Man to believe that such thing is the truth and to expect Gods Blessing 〈◊〉 the Practice of it See Mr. Hildershams to this Lecture 59. on Joh. 4. Lect. 8. on Joh. 4. Mr. Gee in his Exposition of Rom. 18. barely upon this That Lear●ed Men Nay though very Godly Men have 〈◊〉 Interpreted such a Scripture or was of such an ●pinion about it or that the Learned Godly Me● who went before us did practice thus unless 〈◊〉 so he himself be by their Demonstrations and R●●sons clearly satisfied in his own mind that the Opinion and Practice therein is really the ve● Truth If these things be full to answer such an Objectio● ●t by Mr. Harding against the Protestants why ●t as full and suitable every way to confirm the ●swer here Offered by Protestants to the self-same ●bjection made against them by their Fellow-Bre●en If it shall be Objected further That many ●stimonies for the proving of the Premises from ●ence these conclusions are drawn are not Scrip●es but Traditions To this Answer may be ●de First That those Examples and Evidences con● with the Scriptures and therefore the ●ore heed to be given to them especially conside●●●g that these are only Matters of Practice gene●●ly owned and not contended against in those ●ys and also considering how some of these Te●●monies have remained so many hundred years un●literated against all the Endeavours of Rome and ●ers whose Interest and Practice these things op●se and who have for their Interest sake corrup● most of the Fathers and Councels to make ●●m speak as they would Secondly That they are the sayings and consent Antient and Modern Writers and Men of dif●●●ent Judgments in other things yet all accord in ●s as the Practice in those days in these things 〈◊〉 that it was by Divine Right which may add ●he weight to them But Thirdly No more will be demanded That these ●stimonies should speak for the Matter in hand ●n the Adversaries cause these and the like Au●rities to testifie against them Surely it will be ●nted that they are as forcible and may as ratio●●ly be used where it makes for as where it makes ●●ainst any position We are to keep the Ordinances and Order one delivered in the Church as they were delivered b● the Apostles and according to which the Church of God in the Primitive times did walk Be ye f●●lowers of me saith the Apostle Keep the Ordina●ces or Traditions as I have delivered the● unto you 1 Cor. 11.1 2. Therefore did he wh● the Corinthians there had erred about the Lor● Supper send them again to the first Institution 〈◊〉 regulate themselves by after he had told them their disorder said I have received of the Lo● that which I delivered unto you That the Lo● Jesus the same Night c. and so repeats aga● the whole Institution in the same Chapter ver 2● 24 25 26. forms nothing anew but repeats wh● he himself received of the Lord both for Mat● and Form Thirdly Doubtless such who fear the medli● with any other manner of Churches Ministers O●dinances or other manner of Ministration so 〈◊〉 to joyn with them or partake in them are to commended if they are confirmed by these E●dences in the truth of the Premises For the Scr●ture tells us we may not add to or diminish fr● the Rule the Lord hath set us but Obey that every thing Deut. 4.2 especially since the do● of any thing in God's Worship not commanded Hooper Epist to King Edw. so dangerous What became of Nadab and A●hu for their doing that which was not command though not forbidden in any express words 〈◊〉 there could be no warrant in God's Law Lev. 〈◊〉 1 2 3. God also complains of such Jer. 7 ● for building High-Places which he command not Therefore God did not only direct and co●mand about the Tabernacle and Temple and ev● ●art thereof but also every Tittle of the Worship ●erein and the manner and Circumstances there●bout And God takes it ill as an intrusion upon ●s prerogative Royal See Bishop Andrews upon the second commandment when Men shall presume 〈◊〉 do any thing in his Worship as a part thereof ●hich he commanded not or walk therein by any ●ther Rule than what he hath prescribed for no ●an was permitted to vary by adding or dimini●ing Mr. Stillingfleet in his Irenicum p. 6. saith ●hat whatsoever is looked upon as a part of Wor●ip if not commanded of God it is no way ac●eptable of God therefore unlawful Mat. 15.9 ●nd saith That Tertul. de Orat. Cap. 12. rejects ●l those things as superfluous and superstitious which are done without the

Church and if not then it may be believed that they will say be it far from us to determine in such cases for others or to desire our determinations should be imposed upon others And then we are confident the Magistrate will be farther from Challenging any right to determine of those things nor will he undertake to impose by Law upon the Churches but it hath been common amongst Church men to deal subtilly in these things first themselves determine and set down Rules in these cases and tender them to the Magistrate to confirm by Laws as those things which are necessary to the ends aforesaid And then when they are established by Law and they themselves cannot justifie many or any of them to be necessary or any way answering the ends proposed They presently lay the charge upon the Magistrates and say it s commanded and we must obey being by virtue of his Law bound in Conscience so to do Certainly let us not deceive our selves God is not mocked Christ hath pronounced a wo against them by whom offences come The excuse of the Magistrates commanding it will not serve their turn when our Lord comes to judge in Righteousness Yet there are some who are highly offended against such who walk after the Rules herein before set down as near as they can and fear to erre from it as that way of worship and managing of Church affairs which they judge according to Gods word to be Christ's mind they should walk by and as that in which the Churches in the Primitive and best ages walked and which also hath been by many learned and Godly men in all ages since held to be the true way And these offended ones generally conclude against such that they are Separatists from the Church Schismaticks Factious c. for so doing the old Callumnies cast upon the Apostles and other Saints in former ages and by Papists upon Protestants in latter ages and their way called Heresie and evil spoken of as Act. 24 c. 25. c. 28. Though in Truth these offended ones understand not in this case what they say or whereof they affirm either it is pure ignorance in such not understanding what a Church is from which properly a Separation may be said to be made or in which a man may be said to be guilty of making a Schisme or what Act it is that may properly be called a separation from or constitute a man a Schismatick in such a Church or else ignorance that is wilful arising from interest that blinds them These do just as the Presbyterian Ministers once said in Smect p. 58. 59. take it in their own words These do as the Papists dazle the Eyes and astonish the senses of poor People with the Glorious name of the Church c. This is the Gorgons-Head as Doctor White said which inchanted them they call say they for obedience to the Church c. no mention of God and Scripture If we say these Divines there question what is meant by the Church of England they storm as he that holdeth by an unjust Tytle will not suffer the Tytle to be questioned they say these men sometimes make the Convocation the Church excluding both Presbiters and people as not worthy to be reckoned of the Church sometimes the bounds of the Kingdome is the Church If so say they why not England Scotland and Ireland one Church being under one Monarch Thus they contend and know not upon what foundation but having heard of the name of the Church and found Ordinances and Formes of worship amongst them and Discipline used according to humane Laws and Constitutions here they go and never so much as enquire or put it to the question whether they are agreeable to Scripture or Rules prescribed by God And then they take it for granted presently that such who do not in these matters as they do are Separatists and Schismaticks and deserve punishment as rashly as the two Disciples did in another case Luke 9. who would have fire from heaven upon the Samaritanes but they knew not what Spirit they were of as Christ told them they never considered upon what ground they desired such a thing whether it were Christ mind or not that it should be so And as Augustine quoted by Mr. Stillingfleet in his aforesaid Book p. 61.62 complained of men in his dayes about Ceremonies who contended highly yet had no ground for it but this as his words are because it had been the custom of their Country or because they have found them in another Church c. they think that nothing is right and Lawful but what they do themselves And as Bishop Jewel in his Reply before cited said of many Hereticks That they had nothing to plead but that they were born lived in and received of their Fathers what they did practise upon some such poor grounds as these doth the ignorance of men work thus to abuse their brethren And that it may so appear Let such persons be perswaded to weigh the premises well in the fear of God and take these conclusions with him First that such who continue in the Faith of our Lord Jesus Christ and thus hold Union with the Head of the Church according to John 15.4 5. continue in and do not separate from the Catholick Church the body of our Lord Jesus Christ the first Church in this discourse described for there is no other Union between the members of this Church as such but this their being by one Faith united to one Head and from thence animated by one Spirit and such who so continue cannot be called Schismaticks in this Church To this Doctor Carleton agrees in his aforesaid Book p. 6 7 8 9 10. c. 2dly That such who continue to make a profession of the Faith of our Lord Jesus and do not openly deny him in their works do still abide in the visible body of Jesus Christ The Church 2dly above described and cannot be said to separate from this Church or be guilty of Schisme here for this profession is the only thing wherein the unity of the whole visible Church lyeth And thus Mr. Stillingfleet in his Book called a Rational Account c. p. 331. saith That there is no separation from the whole Church but in such things wherein the unity of the whole lyeth For separation saith he is a violation of some union 3dly That such who continue to walk in and with any visible Company Congregation or particular Church on earth holding the true faith in the orderly participation of Ordinances in man-as the Scripture directs and in subjection to Christs Lawes given to be executed therein as such a Church the Church 3dly above described he cannot be said to separate from or be guilty of schisme in this Church Now then if these offended ones will justifie their charge against such who do not in Church affaires as they do It is necessary they prove such whom they thus accuse guilty either of infidelity

Matter as to the particular Churches to which every Member must joyn himself to wit to the Parish wherein each Member resides for the time being and also as to the manner of joyning and being admitted that is by their being Parishioners To say nothing of the Irrationalness of this way 〈◊〉 the Apprehension of such who consider what it 〈◊〉 that makes a Society to be so and any one to ●ecome a Member thereof or of such who know ●hat it is to have Communion in Christian Societies ●s such We Answer First That there were no such Laws ●ade by the first Christian Emperors against Chri●tian Liberty in this case Secondly If any were made since it is reasona●le to enquire how such who made those Laws ●ad this Authority derived upon them from God in ●uch cases If it cannot be shewed as we think it ●annot be then the Freedom continues still to Chri●tians It is wonderful that Men yea Christians should ●hink it most just to preserve Mens Liberty of Liv●ng where they please and to remove from one place to another to choose what Society they please in Civil things And yet restrain Mens Liber●y in this case as if Soul-health Liberty Com●ort and Profit is not to be preserved above that of the Body Especially since the Law of Nature ●nd the Law of God hath left it free Thirdly That Law which makes all Persons in●efinitely Living or that shall Live in such a Pre●inct to be a Church and Members one of another ●n a particular Society and puts them under a ne●essity of joyning together as one Body in the Matters of God can very hardly be defended from oppugning the Laws of Christ which forbids Fel●owship in such things with such and such Persons many of which may be found in every Parish amongst us But to prove by some particulars now That the Power in Church-Affairs was for some Ages Exercised in and by these particular Churches and no● else-where without any Interruption or Controll considerable And without any additional or Superiour Authority Bish Nicholson Vindication of the Church of England p. 26. agrees this of Deacons after the Apostles days An● first as to the choosing of their Ministers Acts 6 2 3.5 6. The whole Church there the Multitude by the Apostles own Direction did choos● their Deacons and were Judges of their Qualifications The Apostles told them what the Deacon● should be the Multitude were Judges whether they were such For the same seven without Examination or Exception which they chose were by the Apostles set apart for the work The Apostles being then the only Officers of that Church which was then but one Society or Congregation Lorinus Salmeron Gasper Sanctus upon Act. 14.23 Deer Part 1. dist 62. See Assembly of Divines upon Act. 24.23 So for the Elders or Bishops Acts 14.22 23. Paul and Barnabas ordained or appointed them Elders in every Church but for the manner it was by suffrage i. e. by the Peoples choice or Vote thus the very Text is rendred in some Translations and so by Magdeburg Divines Translated They created Presbiters in every Church by suffrage Cent. 1. Lib. 2. Cap. 4. Col. 401 402. and this could not be but in particular Congregations who could meet together to this end The Apostles carried no Men with them but passing from Church to Church they appointed such of every Church whom they found there and who were more capable of Judging than the Church of which they were Members and who had experience of and acquaintance with them That this was so is yet more evident by this That afterwards for many hundred years together this way only was continued in the Churches for the Congregations or particular Churches to choose their own Bishops and other Ministers and they ●ccounted it as their Right without any controll as ●or instance in Euseb Eccl. Hist Lib. 3. Cap. ● 1. p. 44. It is said that after the death of James ●he Apostles and Disciples of our Lord gathered ●hemselves together to consult who should succeed ●nd they all with one voyce judged Simon worthy So Euseb Lib. 6. Cap. 28. p. 110. when all the Brethren of the Church of Rome had gathered themselves together for the Electing of a Bishop their Bishop being dead and many had thought upon Notable and Famous Men Fabianus being present the whole Multitude with one accord and the same Spirit of God agreed upon him and made him Bishop The People of a Church in Constantinople being by their Bishop before his Death desired to choose one of two Men he named because of their Vertues did after his Death meet and choose one of them Soc. Eccl. Hist Lib. 2. Cap. 4. p. 253. So did the People of a Church in Millan being met together with one voyce chose Ambrose to be their Bishop which the Emperour concludes there to be the work and will of God Socrat. Lib. 4. Cap. 25. p. 335. There are such Multitudes of Presidents and Instances of this Practice that it would be endless to mention them Only see some Instances in the same Histories of Socrates Lib. 2. Cap. 9. p. 256. Lib. 4. Cap. 13. p 324. Lib. 6. Cap. 2. p. 359. Lib. 7. cap. 7. p. 377 378. Lib. 7. cap. 12. p. 380. cap. 26. p. 390. Evagr. Eccl. Hist Lib. 4. cap. 6. p. 473. Lib. 2. cap. 11. p. 436. This continued unquestioned 500 Years at least And though attempts were sometimes made by Bishops and the Civil Powers they engaged t● Depose Ministers and thrust in others upon Churches yet still the Churches refused them and chos● others themselves when they wanted them a Soc. Lib. 2. cap. 6. p. 254 One Emiseus there refused at two several places by the People a Alexandria and Emisa So likewise Socrat. Lib 4. cap. 7. p. 318 319. when one Eunomius wa● sent to Cizicum by a Bishop of Constantinople an● commanded to be placed there by the Emperour yet was he refused and Eunomius went and Live with him that made him Bishop So again Socra● Lib. 7. cap. 12. p. 380. One Salvatus rejecte● by a Church in Constantinople So again at Cizicum where a Bishop at Constantinople appoint Proclus to be their Bishop The Church at Cizicum understanding what was done prevented it an● chose Dalmatius a Religious Man to Govern and Proclus being not admitted there spent hi● time at Constantinople Socrat. Lib. 7. cap. 28 p. 391. and many more Instances of this Nature might be given Yet we find no complaint made thereof as any irregular Act of the People which doubtless would have been had it not been their known right Cyprian agrees to this that if any were intruded upon the People he was taken for a false Bishop no● a true Pastor for which he is quoted by the Magdeburg Divines Cent. 3. cap. 7. col 175 176 Moreover the Emperour Constantine acknowledgeth this right to be Lodged in these particula● Churches See his Epistle to the Church in Antioch where

seem to intend any other nor any other ●corded in the Scripture of the New Tes●ment which doubtless would have been if Ch● had intended any other to have been continued 〈◊〉 the Church for it would have been necessary 〈◊〉 have known how such should have been Qualifi● as well as these But of these two see at large 1 Ti● 3. Titus c. 3. And that these were all in the Primiti● Churches the Century Writers affirm Magd● Cent. 1. Lib. 2. cap. 7. col 508 509. Cent. ● cap. 7. col 125. This also may we note T● after the Church had departed from the Apostoli● Order and by humane prudence appointed o● Elder or Bishop in every Congregation or Socit● 〈◊〉 the first step and after in a larger Circuit ●ve the rest Yet even these Bishops were then ●ke manner chosen by the Body of those Church● where in he was to be Bishop as the Authori● herein before alledged fully prove But now if it shall be Objected as some have ●med to do That this power of Election in the ●urch was not a Priviledge belonging to them of ●t but of conveniency Ere we give answer 〈◊〉 shall go over some such pretences as these ●irst the Papists Concil Trident. lib. 7. p. 590. They at the Council of Trent ●●itted this use to have been in the Primitive times the Churches But as to the Right they say ●re That though the people did choose yet it 〈◊〉 by the tacit or explicit consent of the Pope This conceit will easily fall for in those days ●re was no such thing in Nature as a Pope if ●y mean by a Pope such a one as is now at ●me with such Authority as he challengeth there● he could not by his consent bring it in or had ●een so the Pope had erred to have given con●● to the Church that she should have called her ●isters in another way than Christ had appointed Christ did not appoint this way If Christ did ●oint this way then his consent was insignificant-mentioned in this case unless they will say Christ ●n appointed no way but that he left all to the ●retion of the Pope in this matter which we ●k they will not affirm Again Secondly Bishop Nicholson of Glou●er in his Book before cited p. 27. admits the ●ter of Fact that the people did choose but ●o the Right he saith first That it was after 〈◊〉 Apostles days Although we see Arch-Bishop Cranmer Polanus the Magdeburg Divines and many others of express contrary Judgment in the places befo●● quoted and agree that this was in the Apost●● days and their own way in which they Ordain Elders in the Churches Secondly he saith That this was not a Pri●●ledge belonging to them of Right but of Conve●ency for which we have the Bishops own word ●ly not the least proof offered against which 〈◊〉 stream of other Learned and good mens judgme●● before cited generally run And this also the ●shop himself in the same place in the very n● words ingeniously adds and affirms That 〈◊〉 choyce of the People was derived from the Rule● Christian Equity and Society and he there furt●●● sub joyns this excellent effect it had That he● it came to pass that the People did quietly rece● willingly maintain diligently hear and hear● love their Pastors From whence we may conclude That su● such whom the Bishop there saith took away 〈◊〉 Power from the Churches were to be blamed 〈◊〉 rashness at least And that there is a loud call for 〈◊〉 restoring of this Conveniency if it be no mo●● to the Churches since it was derived from such ●cellent Rules and hath such desirable effects N● such to be found following any other way brou●● in in the room thereof And that it may of ●●vine Right rather than of Conveniency brou●● in by mans Wisdom for it is rare to find a C●●stitution of mans derived from such Principles 〈◊〉 to have such Fruits which do exceed for good● the Constitutions of Christ himself Again Thirdly One more such pretence we 〈◊〉 in Mr. Stillingfleet in his afore-said Book p. 2● Who though he had before in the place herein ●oted allowed that the People did choose yet ●e he saith It seems strangely improbable that the ●ostles should put the choice at that time into the ●ads of the People and he makes this the only ●und of his conjecture That there were none ●n that were fitted for the work but whom the ●●ostles did lay their hands upon by which saith 〈◊〉 the Holy Ghost fell upon them whereby they ●●re fitted and qualified for the work the people ●n saith he could no ways choose men for their ●ilities when their abilities were consequent to ●●eir Ordination These are his own words as to ●●s matter But his ground seems very feeble for ●e concluding of such an improbability for we ●ust either take it for granted or he must prove ●rst that the Holy Ghost fell on none but such on ●nom the Apostles laid hands Secondly That the ●oly Ghost fell on no men till the Apostles had ●d hands upon them for the Ministry Thirdly ●hat when ever the Apostles laid hands on any they ●ere by that imposition of Hands Ordained Mini●●ers If this be not granted or proved then there ●●ght be many in every Church qualified with gifts 〈◊〉 the Holy Ghost and fitted for the work some ●●thout laying on of hands some by laying on of ●ands of the Apostles and yet not Ministers there●● Then these were fitted for the work and these ●ight be chosen by the Church before Ordination ●ut so it was it 's evident that the Holy Ghost fell ●pon many without imposition of hands that he ●ll upon some by imposition of hands before they ●ere made Ministers That all were not made Mi●●sters on whom the Apostles laid hands and who ●●ceived the Spirit So that Multitudes were fitted and qualified for the people to choose in every pla●● almost See Acts 10. There were many heari● Peter Preach and while he was yet speaking 〈◊〉 Holy Ghost fell on them all and they spake w● Tongues here is no imposition of hands nor s●ting apart for the Ministry for they were not ba●tized ver 47. yet were these Persons qualifi●● for the People to have chosen any man among them Again Acts 8.14 15 16 17. The were many Men and Women at Samaria that belie●ed and the Apostles at Jerusalem hearing of 〈◊〉 sent unto them Peter and John who prayed and la● their hands on them and the received the H● Ghost Yet sure Mr. Stillingfleet will not sa● these were made Ministers by this however the were qualified thereby to have been chosen by t● People Again Acts 19. Paul found certain Disciples 〈◊〉 Ephesus twelve in Number of Men he la● on them and they received they Holy Ghost a● Prophecyed And there is no colour to say that the● were Ordained Ministers thereby So that the● were more Persons qualified for the work to be ch●sen by the people

doctrine And we find the seven Churches in As●● acting thus and not one blamed for the neglect 〈◊〉 another in this matter nor one commended for th● good in another but each Church for it self Perg●mus blamed for having such amongst them that he● the doctrine of Balaam Thyatira for suffering th● woman Jezebel to teach and seduce c. The Churc● of Ephesus commended for trying the false Ap●stles Magdib Cent 1. l. 2. cap 7. Col. 522. Rev. 2.2.14 15 20. which clearly shewe● that these Churches had no dependency one of an●ther but each had power both to try false teacher and to have cast them out not to have suffered the● amongst them and the not doing it or the d●ing of it accordingly is taken notice of by th● Lord Jesus Christ as a neglect or a work of ea●● Church as particularly and alone concerned and 〈◊〉 the whole body of each Church as is evident 〈◊〉 those places and these words there used in th● close of what was written to each Church He● what the Spirit saith to the Churches not to th● Officers or particular Persons offending or Bishop but the whole and they blamed for suffering su●● Persons amongst them That those Churches we● but particular Societies or single Congregation● and the things spoken are spoken to the whole bod● of each Church Ambrosius Ausbertius Perkin● and Brightman affirm And also Dr. Tulke Tydal and the Old Translators call them seven Co●gregations Ephesus one and that said to be b● one Flock Acts 20. For at this time were m●titudes of Jews and Heathens in this City Ye● ●en Polycarp their Bishop was called out to suffer ●●re were but few Christians in that City as Eu●ius History tells us The Presbyterian Divines ●ree this See Smect p. 40 41 43. Tertul. also tells us That in these Congregati●s these things were done In these Assemblies ●●ith he we make Exhortations and Threatnings 〈◊〉 Divine Censures that banisheth Sinners and ex●deth them from our Communion We Judge ●●m saith he with very great Circumspection ●cause we know that God is in the midst of us ●d knows what we do Apol. Cap. 39. p. 137. 〈◊〉 this the Magdeburg Century Writers fully ●ree And also sets forth the manner how the Con●egations did it Cent. 1. Lib. 1. Cap. 4. col 158. ●b 2. Cap. 4. Col. 358 359. Cap. 6. Col. 498. ●●d again they prove this from Augustine Cent. ● Cap. 4. Col. 380 381 382 383 384. And ●ain they say from Ambrose ad Valentinianum ●peratorem That those Churches had this Pow● and none else and this ought to be done openly the Congregation the People being present Cent. ● cap. 7. col 500 501. And that in the Epistle the Roman Presbyters to Cyprian it is affirmed at the Presbyters Deacons and Lay-People ●re wont to be together in Councel and to speak ●d confer their own sence and mind in these things those days Cent. 3. cap. 7. col 176.152 153. ●●d that Cyprian himself saith That as the Peo●e and whole Church hath Power to choose their ●●n Ministers So if the Bishops did fall into He●ie they were deposed by the Clergy and Peo●e and they appoint another And that it was ●t Lawful for the Bishop to do any thing herein ●thout the Peoples Councels Cent. 3. cap. 7. col 173 174 175 176. And again they say that Origen did rebuke the Pride of some Priests those days who did despise the Counsels of t● Inferior Priests and Lay-Men Cent. 3. cap. 7. c● 151 152 153. Many more Testimonies might 〈◊〉 offered for the proof hereof in those days no● denying it or practising otherwise for many Ag● And Mr. Stillingfleet Mr. Vines upon the Sacrament P. 129 173 194 195 196. agrees all this f●lly And also saith That God gave this great Charter to the Church not the Emperor and that God gave it to them as a Church in the same Irenicum p. 4● saith as to a Power arising from mutual compa● and consent of Parties he acknowledgeth a Pow● to bind all included under that Compact Not 〈◊〉 virtue of any supreme binding Power in them b● from the free consent of the Parties submitting sai● he which he saith there is most agreeable to th● Nature of Church-Power being not Coersive b● Directive and then he avers That such was t● Confederate Discipline of the Primitive Church b●fore they had any Christian Magistrate From whic● words of his may be gathered That there was 〈◊〉 Agreement amongst Christians of each Society 〈◊〉 Congregation to submit to the Laws of Christ f●● he saith none can be bound but those that consen● and it canno tbe supposed that such a confederatio● or Agreement can be well made amongst more tha● can conveniently meet in one place as a Churc● that all are bound who do thus Confederate or joy themselves together in a Society and that this Society and Church by virtue of this Confederatio● as a Church hath Power in this case to deal wi●● as many as do come amongst them and consen● Especially since he hath in the same Book p. 13● agreed that a real confederation ought to be b●tween those who joyn themselvas together in Go●pel-Ordinances in Order to their being a Church and saith that none will deny this who know what it is that makes a Society to be so which is ●●ch a real confederation with one another And ●●terwards p. 148 149. to the matters in hand more ●xpresly he saith these things That the Jews being ●●e Church of God secluded Men from their So●eties which saith he may be looked upon not 〈◊〉 a civil but a Sacred Action and that they had ●●is Power of Excommunication and for the Chri●●ian Church he saith the practice of Discipline ●pon Offenders was never questioned c. That ●ence saith he we gather in that it hath been the ●ractice of Societies constituted for the Worship ●f God to call Offenders to an account for their Of●ences and if upon Examination they are found ●uilty to exclude them their Societies and that it 〈◊〉 the dictate of the Law of Nature That every Offender against the Laws of a Societie must give ●n account of his actions to the Rulers of the So●iety and submit to the censures inflicted on him ●rom all which sayings of his this will follow That every particular Church or Society joyning ●ogether by a Confederation amongst themselves ●ave this Power within themselves to call Offenders ●o an account and to seclude them their Society if ●here be just cause found Yet take one place more ●f him and then we shall leave this as undenyable it is in p. 228 229. where he saith It must in rea●on be supposed that all Matters of the Nature of ●candal to the Church must be decided there Mat. ●8 And there he Argues the Lawfulness of Ex●ommunication in Christian Churches and adds ●his For if every Person saith he might with●raw from the Society of such a one as continued ●efractory in

Authority of the Lords ●r his Apostles commands So say we that such ●s vary purposely may expect that God should re●ect them and their Offerings and say to them ●ho hath required this at your hands The Pro●het Isaiah Chap. 24. ver 5. tells us the sad ef●ects of such things The Earth saith he is de●led under the Inhabitants thereof because they ●ransgressed the Laws changed the Ordinances c. ●ishop Jewel in his Reply to Harding p. 111. Quotes Cyprian for these words which were be●ore cited That if any of my Predecessors have not ●ept the thing the Lord hath taught us he for his ●mplicity may be pardoned but if we wilfully Of●end there is no pardon for us who are already ●arned and instructed of the Lord. Yea further ●e say all men are to be excused though they pon●er well and do not hastily embrace these things thus ●ltered or added till they are well tryed by the Rule 〈◊〉 the same Bishop Carleton in the same Book in his Epistle to the Reader said Because Seduce● pretend so much to love Souls and glory so much 〈◊〉 the Name of the Church he should be careful to t● the Spirits of such men that speak in them fo● saith he it is a great fault to believe any thing wit●out tryal Again Trust neither us nor them un● you have tryed try before you trust And he the● quotes Chrysostome for these words to his Hearer● That they should be more careful in trying Doctri● which are delivered to them than in telling of M●ney Again That the Rule we walk by must 〈◊〉 known and certain if not known no Rule to 〈◊〉 if not certain no Rule at all And this also sai● he Cardinal Bellarmin agrees And Bishop N●cholson of Gloucester in his afore-said Book 〈◊〉 67. adviseth such who would be satisfied abo● Church-Government to search it to the depth an● stay till he hath consulted the Ancients c. an● p. 41. tells us That it will not be enough for us 〈◊〉 answer that we have followed the Judgment 〈◊〉 this or that Church but upon what certain ground● we have followed it That the ground of Consc●ence is Science which also saith he flows fro● certain prime immediate known Principles n●● from probable or conjectural From all whic● sayings of the Bishop it 's clear That there is 〈◊〉 necessity of trying things e're we practice therefore not hastily to embrace things of this Nature And the rather too because some things may be s●● up like to Gods Ordinances and yet not truly such Thus was Jeroboam's Feast he Instituted 1 King 12.32 33. The Text saith It was like to tha● which was Observed in Judea but it was not th● same for he had forged it in his own heart An● in such cases men may the easier be deceived An● ●e Apostle Titus 1.13 14. forbids us to give ●y heed to Jewish Fables and Commandments of ●en who turned from the Truth therefore try● of those things which are offered to our practice 〈◊〉 the Matters of God is necessary e're we med●e That we may discern whether God hath com●anded them or whether they are not Jewish Fa●es or at best but the Commandments of Men ●rned from the Truth Nay further Christians ●e not to busie themselves in enquiring into any ●her way or manner of Worship than what God ●th prescribed Israel when they were a Church as charged Deut. 12.30 31 32. not to enquire ●ying how did those Nations Worship their God ●st they should be ensnared But God gave them ●●press Commandment in these words That whatever thing I Command you observe to do it thou ●alt not add thereto nor diminish from it Thus ●od held them to the Rules he had prescribed them 〈◊〉 the Matter and Manner of his Worship And 〈◊〉 well knowing how apt those his own People ●ere to fall in with another way of Worshipping ●●n that which he prescribed and that they were ●●e to be taken with the general way of Worship ●ed in most Nations as afterwards they were for ●e Civil Government as other Nations although ●od had appointed it otherwise at that time cau●ns them before hand not so much as to enquire ●er another way but cleave to that which he had ●dered them How cautious then should Christians be of sud●n Medling with any thing in Divine Worship and ●urch affaires till it be fully clear to them that ●ery part therein with which they have to do be ●ods Commandment and agreeing to his mind and not the way only of the generality of Worshippers and Customes of the Nations and those tha● went before them And let all this therefore perswade men wh● would have these cautious ones punished for the● practices wherein they walk by the Rules of God Word and primitive example as before and al● for their Non-conformity and forbearing to su●scribe to another way though they are not pe●swaded or convinced by Gods Word and such T●stimonies as are produced that this other way 〈◊〉 of God or that God will own and bless them i● it to hear them speak further for themselves i● the words of the Godly Presbyterian Ministers i● their Petition for Peace and amending the Liturg● p. 5 6. 18. They are these Suffer them w●● desire nothing but to Worship God according to 〈◊〉 Will as near as we can God say they is Jealo●● in the Matters of his Worship And for their L●berty in this they offer these Reasons First Because they dare not consent to that whic● they Judge to be Vsurpation of Christs King● Power Secondly Because They dare not be guilty of A●dition to or diminishing from his Worship or doing 〈◊〉 by any other Law than that by which they must 〈◊〉 judged Suppose they mistake yet it is commend●ble say they that they are fearful to displease Go● and dare not do that which they judge to be sin ●gainst God Should not the Love of Christ put 〈◊〉 upon tendring of such as are tender of Gods H●nour For he say they that shall do that to plea● Men or escape Sufferings which he thinks is s●● no doubt deserveth the wrath of God And 〈◊〉 say they should be loth to drive Men upon si● though we know their own infirmities to be the occasion It is Gods prerogative to search the heart Math. 7.1.2 and these are ready to appeal to God that what they do is only because they would not sin And if others say they shall step into Gods Throne and say it is not for fear of sinning not Conscience but Obstinacy all humane converse say they upon these Terms will be overthrown And as in their Book of proceedings upon the Commission with the Bishops p. 11. It will not justifie us in the day of Judgment if we sin to say that our Superiors Commanded us Fourthly That also it may be granted surely that no man may rationally be blamed much lesse punished for not obeying the Lawes of any persons as a Church who assume to

healthfull persons withwhom I can associate again And if several other persons saith he be of the same mindwith me and we therefore joyn together do we therefore divide our selves from the whole world Thus he in this place clearly intimated a withdrawing from one Society upon good grounds and then for as many as be so withdrawn and of the same mind to joyn themselves together and associate by agreement and that is no separation And no doubt but that there is matter enough to be found sufficiently to warrant such persons in this also as well as in withdrawing Communion But if yet they shall say the Church of England is that from which these separate How pray If the Church of England be granted to be a Church in either or both of the two first Descriptions herein before given though in Truth she be but a little part of both yet there is no other Union with her as one Church nor can there be but the Union in Fa●th under one Head Jesus Christ and participation of the same Spirit and the profession of this Faith So that none can be said to separate from her as a Church or be guilty of Schism or breach of Union here but such who renounce the Faith and their Union with Christ the Head in Word or Deed and forsake their profession of it And this Church of England cannot be pretended to be a particular Church under the third Description for they never yet associated as such nor is it possible for them as a Church to meet in one intire body in one place to partake of the same Ordinances or do any other Act as a Church or Society but always met in their several Bodies or Churches for performing of all Acts of a Church as such In like manner also do these who are so blamed Therefore in this sence neither can they be by any Rule of Reason said to be guilty of Schism If these Offended ones shall yet say thus That such Men refuse to joyn with our Congregations and Ministers in our way For Answer to this besides what hath been said before to justifie their continuing by themselves First it 's thought in Charity to be presumed That these Men are convinced of the Truth of the premises That in truth all things about Church-Affairs were managed in and by particular Churches Congregations or Societies by Divine Authority and so Ordered as before Their Ministers chosen the Matter of their Worship without any addition alteration or diminishing according to Divine Rules Scandalous Persons cast out c. That these cannot judge it Lawful for them to do any thing in these matters contrary or not according to this Rule but think if they should they must sin against God And then this must needs be a sufficient plea for these in this case especially since other things to them doubtful unnecessary and sinful are made necessary Conditions of Communion with those Congregations So that none can communicate with them but of necessity he must submit to own and joyn with there things and neglect the other way Secondly Is any man bound to joyn with or partake in every Congregation in England or in more than one or must he be guilty of the breach of Union Surely no may not a Man abide in his own Parish all his Life and refuse to have any Minister but his own or Communicate with any Congregation but that whereof he is a Member Yet he shall not for this be accounted a Schismatick or Separatist It is presumed no Man will say he shall Wherein then lyes the difference These men thus accused do joyn themselves to some one Congregation or Church of God according to the Rules as was in the beginning and there they abide in the Orderly participation of Ordinances and Subjection to Christs Laws therein executed and disagree in nothing of the true Faith from other Churches So that it follows That barely upon this pretence neither can they fasten the Crime of Separation upon those who do not joyn with their Congregations and Ministers May not members of Parish-Churches be as properly said to be Separatists for refusing to joyn themselves to those Congregations Societies or Churches and Ministers in their Worshipping of God as these for not joyning with them Nor can it be said That these dis-agree with the Church of England in any thing wherein the whole Church of God is agreed or the whole Church of England but only in some things wherein the Church of God yea in England dis-agree amongst themselves as Mr. Stillingfleet in his said Book called A Rational Account p. 357 358. affirms against the Papists in these words We saith he have not separated from the whole Christian World in any thing wherein the whole Christian World is agreed But to dis-agree from the particular Churches of the Christian World in those things wherein those Churches differ amongst themselves is not to separate from the Christian World but to dis-agree in some things from these particular Churches The case is here the same These do not separate from the whole Church of England but only dis-agree in those things wherein the particular Churches differ amongst themselves And then walk with such who can and will agree with them in these things If they say the Parish-Churches are most Lawful and right and so their Ministers Ministration and Order Let this be first decided by Gods Word and their Lawfulness better proved than the Churches Ministry and Order and Management of Church-Affairs amongst these and before set forth as the Primitive Practice and then they say something But if they justifie all by the Law of the Land only it may soon be answered by this That it was not so from the beginning That the other way is proved by the Law of God and Practice of the Primitive Churches and approbation of Learned and good Men in all Ages yea and of Men of contrary Practices themselves Therefore surely the best plea against this For if Magistrates or Governors appoint any thing in these matters not agreeable to these Rules so that Men cannot be satisfied in their own minds but doubt it's Lawfulness such doubting ones may not be in the practice of it till they be satisfied of it's Lawfulness without sin Nor will it be a sufficient Excuse in the great Day of the Lord if they thus sin To say that the Magistrate commanded me to do it If they shall yet further alledge That these Persons agree not to Walk not in those Practices and Rules in the Church of England which are prescribed by the same Church and to which the generality of the same Church agree and submit and therefore they may be said to be Separatists and Schismaticks Though a full Answer to this may be gathered from the Answer to the last Objection And what hath been said in this before to acquit them from this Charge upon such an Account That is that the Church of England as such