Sy. At bothe tymes Ioi Neither of them can be trew and I do meruail that so grosse an answere dyd come from the. For seyng that the Soule can muche lesse slepe when she hath put awaye the burdeyn of thâ— body then when she beareth about yet the burdeyn of the body doeth not sleape when shâ— is yet in the bodye it followetâ— that she sleapeth muche lesse when she is deliuered from thâ— bodye And that she doeth not slepe beyng in the body it maye be knowen by thys that in the tyme of wakyng the body doth alwayes without rest quyet worke which actions do come from the soule Ergo it is manifest that whiles that the body waketh the soule sleapeth not And agayn when the body hath geueÌ„ it self to rest to slepe the soule worketh with a perpetual motion or mouyng doeth neuer rest or ceasse either she bretheth or doeth some thynge alwayes withe the vertue of remembraunce vnderstaÌ„dyng or with the other excellent vertues powers All mans lyfe is eyther wakynge or rest in none of them bothe doeth the soulesleape Ergo the soule doeth not sleape at all Therfore slepe longeth only to the body not to the soule For when the soule begiÌ„neth ones to haue life it is a perpetual Entesechia comeyng froÌ„ the euerlasting eternall fontayne of goodnesse the which perpetuall Entesechiia that is to say vnrequietable perpetuall action and mouyng in the soule if any man denayeth by that same reason he must denay the soule Sy. These thyngê are somewhat darke vnto me Ioiada Therefore I wyll declare them by an exaÌ„ple Fyer is a very pure actuall thyng whiche after that it begynneth ones can neuer ceasse from his operacion and workyng tyll it be quenched and that is when it hathe nothyng whervpon it maye shew and exercise his operacion If thou denyest the operacion working of the fier thou hast denyed the fyer The nature of the soule is very like which after that she is poured in to the body by god is a liuely and working spirite and can neuer ceasse nor be at rest Wylt thou haue no fyer take awaye the operacion If thou denyest the Soule attribute vnto her slepe For to say that the soule is a slepe and to saye that the soule is not is all one thyng If the soule slepeth she dooeth rest if she dooeth rest she worketh not if she doeth not worke she is not For to worke and to be in the soule is all one thing â—yth that she is a perpetual motion workyng But the soule is therfore shee sleapeth not Dooest thou vnderstande this thyng Sy. Very well Ioia Therfore did I say that the Aâ—ababtistes knowe not the nature of the soule Sy. Thou shuldest peraduenture haue persuaded somewhat to Timens and Phedrus Platos disciples I had leauer heare Scriptures Ioia The Saduces dyd teache that ther was no Resurrection and by this dyd denye the immortalitie and perpetual workyng of the soule yea and also Angels and all maner of Spirites Act. xiii The Lorde dyd stop their mouthes with these reasons Ye erre sayth he not knowing the scriptures nor the vertue of God God after the death of the Fathers calleth hym selfe the God of AbrahaÌ„ Isaac and Iacob which is not the God of the dead but of the lyuyng and that therfore Abraham and the other Fathers were a lyue and not dead Thei were dead in body a gret whyle afore and buryed Therfore Christ speaketh here of the lyfe of the soule Ergo the soule beyng separated from the body is in her owne kynde worketh lyuely and slepeth not This syllogysme and argument doo I put to all the Anababtistes to answer to that they may cleare them selfe frome the heresye of the Saduces For thei are lyke vnto the Saduces and Manicheans What shoulde I say of the wordes of Christ whiche hangyng vpon the Crosse doeth comforte the thiefe with these wordes saiyng To daye thou shalte be with me in Paradise Sy. Paradise and the Bosome of Abraham are all one thyng to the Anababtistes where thei say that the soules doo sleape Ioia Thei do affirme this with out scriptures and with an hereticall spirite Christ sayeth To day thou shalte be with me in Paradise Ponder euerye worde If Paradice is a sleapyng place Christ sleapeth in it also For he sayeth To daye thou shalte be Moreouer the thiefe prayeth Christ to remember him when he shoulde come in to hys kyngdome If the kyngdome of God is a Dormitorie or Sleapyng place what doo the scriptures speake of the Resurrection and Ascendyng of Christ in to heauen Ye ate obstacle asses O Anababtistes whiche dare make mention of suche sleapyng agaynst so manifest places of the scriptures What shall thei say to the wordes of Christ Iohn v. He that heareth my word and beleueth in him that hath sent me shall not come in to iudgement but is passed frome deathe to lyfe Whiche woordes are so cleare that no maÌ„ can denay them but heretikes Let the .xi. of Iohn and the .xv. of the first Epistle to the Corinthians Item the .ii. Cor .ii. be reade and it shal euidently he knowen that the sleape of the Anababtistes is a blasphemy agaynst the Gospell and Resurrection of Christ Sy. If the matter be better looked vpon the Anababtistes can not cleare them selues from the crime of ouer boldnesse ignorancye but they haue not pondered all these thingê so exactly Ioia Why dooe they presume to teach then take vpoÌ„ theÌ„ that which passeth their strengthe And agayne when they be conuicted wyll not geue the vpper hande to the truthe But because they wyll be sene stedfast they be founde in all thynges frowarde and obstacle To say briefly They doo all thynges with contention arrogancye and ignoraunce Sy. I woulde had questioned with the touchyng the .vi. Conclusion but that I must go to myne Iune Tomorow if thou canst haue leasyr I wyll be here betymes in the morning and reason farther with the. Ioiada I am well pleased for I wyll go to myne Inne also be thou to morow in better readinesse Symon God be with the. Ioiada Fare well SOLIDEO HONOR ET GLORIA â–ª ¶ Thou shalt vnderstaÌ„de good Christen Reader that immediately after this as sone as may be thou shalte haue the seconde Booke whiche entreate vpon as many thynges as this Booke doeth bothe fruitfull to be knowen and also most necessarye for these perillouse tymes in the which the Diuell doeth all that he can to extinguish the trew Doctrine of the Gospell whiche at this tyme thorough our godly Magistrates doeth reuiue and florish agayne Fare well and pray that we may performe the Woorke that we haue in haude
GOD worketh 〈…〉 s bothe to be willyng and to doo or performe the thyng that he hathe moued vs to be willyng to do accordyng to his bountuous wyll He I say worketh in vs good workes as in his electes notwithstanding the workes ar attributed vnto vs and are called ours whiche neuerthelesse are Gods that glory honor may be geuē to god only Doest thou vnderstande what I say Sy. I doo vnderstand it very well Ioia Dothe it satisfie thee Sy. ye as truly Now do I perceiue that the lernyng of the Anababtistes cometh of ygnoraunce and boldnesse and that it is very pernicious and hurtfull whiche is gaye in the syght of the simple but in dede is an error malicious rudenesse 〈…〉 ut I desyre to knowe what thou wylte saye of the .v. conclusiō For they be fully persuaded that soules are a slepe The .x. treatie or dialoge How that the Soules after that thei be departed from the body do not slepe but lyue in christ Ioiada BVt with this opinion they do abolish the gospel which teacheth of the resurrection of Christ as saynt Paule in the fyrst chap. to the Romayns doth say Besyde that they doo denye the last Article of oure fayth that is to saye The lyfe euerlastyng after this lyfe Is not this therfore a pernitious Doctrine that repugneth agaynst so manifest veritie and sure beleue Sy. Thou doest not vnderstande the Anabaptistes For they doo neyther denye the Gospell nor the Resurrection of Christ They saye that the Soules after the deathe of the bodye if they dooe departe in fayth do slepe in the bosome of Abraham tyl the day of iudgement that then they do entre into euerlasting life And proue their saiynges by the gospell by Paule Luc. xvi i. Thess iiii I wyl not haue you to be ignoraunt touchyng them that are a slepe c. In the Olde Testament it is written of the Fathers that thei fal a slepe with their Fathers And also it is sayde of Stephen that he dyd slepe in the Lord. And that thei at lengthe shall receyue euerlastyng lyfe they do proue it by Paule .ii. Timoth. iiii I haue sayeth he fought a good fyght Now is there layde vp for me a croune of rightwysnesse which the Lorde who is a rightfull iudge shall geue or render vnto me vpon that day not onely to me but also to al them that loue his comynge There is suche a thyng Phil. iii. i. Iohn iii. Or what neade is it of that last iudgement if by by after his death euery man receyueth his owne dome these do seme vnto me strong Nowe wyll I fayne he are what thou canst saye agaynst it Io. I saye the same thyng that I sayde before If our soules dooe sleepe after the death of the bodye the soule of Christ sleepeth also and the resurrection is disanulled For Christ dyd proue that ther was an euerlasting lyfe by his rising agayne which can not be euerlastyng if the soule slepeth and begynneth then to lyue when iudgement dothe come Wherfore the sleepe of the Anababtistes dothe euacuate and disanull the gospell and resurrection As for the bosome of Abraham I aske the whether it be a slepyng place dormitori or a receptacle and place to receyue the lyuyng Sy A place whervnto the soules of y e faithfull Christen men ar gathered together tyll the day of iudgement Ioi Where is that place aboue or benethe Sy It is vncerteyne to me God doth know Nor it is not lawfull for vs to enquyre Sy. So ye do defend al vncertayne thynges that ye do teache And ye that do speake babble muche of the bosome of Abraham and do not know yet That comyng of Christ shall be in the last day of all Ioia What and I vnderstande that of the comyng of Christ at the ende of euery mans lyfe Sy. So thou doest say but it must be proued by the holy scriptures Io. These ar not my wordes but the wordes of him that speaketh there of his owne death For he vseth this word to go for to dye so that to go and to dye is all one thyng with him And agayne this worde to come wherfore the Anababtistes doo stryue is not taken for his last comyng but for the resurrectiō of christ and ye helpe and ayde that he sheweth vpon the faythfull christen men being in extreme nede For he came agayne after that he was rysen from death dyd declare that he had opened the kingdom of god that we might be sure that as he dyd entre in to heauen him selfe so we shuld come in or entre in also But he is entered in to immortal lyfe not in to slepe in to the kyngdome of God and not in to the bosome of Abraham and that by by after his death Therfore we shall also incontinent after our death entre in to euerlastyng lyfe and into the kingdome of God For he taketh vs away when he calleth vs from death to lyfe Iohn v. For it is added by maner of exposicion That where I am ther ye may be also Therfore are we taken in soule from death to euerlastyng lyfe in body to iudgement Or tell me dyd Christ with his death reserate open heauen whiche was locked vp afore or not Sy I do graunt that he did opē it Ioi But what neadeth this reseration or openyng if the soules doo not entre in to lyfe Where as notwithstādyng Paul doeth say I coueit to be dissolued deliuered from this body to be w t christ beleuyng that after this death he should be with Christ Peter moreouer doeth saye that for this cause the gospel was preached vnto the dead that they shuld be iudged in the flesh but lyue after or in y e spirit do not these manifest places teache proue that the soules doo lyue with God For he sayeth that y ◠gospell was preached vnto the dead What is els the gospel to be preached but redemption lyfe to be preached And what were they that were dead but they which after that thei were departed were gathered in the bosome of Abraham Sy. But howe was the gospell preached vnto them Ioia The vertue of the passion of Christ and the fruit of his death which were profitable vnto them Sy. How Ioi Because that they being deliuered thorough the death of Christ ar receiued as touching their soules into euerlastyng lyfe In the last day they shall ryse bodily and as all other shall be iudged in the vniuersall iudgement In the meane season their soules do liue with God Is it proued sufficiently that the soules that wer in the bosome of Abraham are delyuered brought in to heauen Sy. I dooe not saye agaynst it Ioia And thou shalt fynde none other thing in the word of god ▪ It followeth therfore that th◠Bosome of Abraham is no dormitory or slepyng place but an euerlastyng lyfe Which thyng we may proue by the .xvi. of Lu
â–ª For ther it is written that Lazarus is in ioy and solace wheâ— as the rycheman is punyshed in hell If so be that the soule as ye doo say shulde slepe she coulde haue no ioye excepte iâ— were by dreames if she reioyseth or haue ioy it is impossible that she shoulde slepe Likewisâ— it is manifest li knowen shewed in the .viii. of Mathew that many shall come sytte in the kyngdome of God with Abraham Isaak and Iacob That in the meane season I shoulde sai nothing that slepe is cleanâ— contrarye to the nature of the soule which is in Greke called â—ntesecheia or Endesechia that is to sai â— perpetuall and vnrequietable â—otion or workyng Sy. These â—hinges are more manifest and more strong then I thought Ioia It is the poynte of an vnwise man to say I thought not and hauyng hearde but one â—arte to geue sentence The Aâ—ababtistes do aduaunce and â—et forth gaily and paintyngly their argumentes but they are weake and nothyng strong Sy. I woulde fayne know in what significacioÌ„ the scripture vseth this worde to slepe which is so often tymes founde in euery place of the Bible Ioia Among the auncient fathers this worde to slepe was to dye naturally or after the commen course of nature And because of the resurrectioÌ„ it was saied that thei which dyd dye sleape For as a man geueth hym selfe to sleape doubting nothing but that he shall wake agayne from his sleape so the body sleapeth that is to say dyeth doeth lyâ— in the graue beyng kepte there â—yl the day of the general resurrection So the Fathers dyâ— sleape so Stephen all otheâ— godly persons Seyng therforâ— that to sleape is to dye and thâ— soules can not dye it foloweth that they canne not sleape Foâ— Stephen dyd saye Lorde receiue thou my spirite which thyng when he had saied haâ— coÌ„mitted or coÌ„mended his soul to the heauenly father his bodâ— sleapynge dyd dye In thy thyng they are deceyued thaâ— they do attribute vnto the souâ— that which belongeth to the body only But in the meane seasoÌ„ it is attributed to the whole maÌ„ because of the vnitie of the body and of the soule beyng knytted in one persone Which example was brought afore of Christ in whom the body died only not his godhead nor his soule Lykewyse a man slepeth but with his bodye not with his soule The Anababtistes doo not nor wyl not vnderstand this figure Sinâ—cdochâ— nor the other figures tropes Which thyng causeth them to erre in many thynges But ignorauncye maketh them the bolder to teache what so euer they do dreame or conceyue in their sleape Sy. Yet it is euident that Paul saith that a cotoune of rightwisnes shal be reÌ„dered vnto him at lengthe when thâ— Lorde cometh And also that which is written in Iohn anâ— in the Epistle to the Philipenâ— is sure and strongly grounded â–ª Ioia This ought to be obserueâ— Symon that the daye of thâ— Lorde in scriptures is not alwayes to bee taken for the lasâ— day but somtyme for the truth and lyght as in the gospell oâ— Iohn otherwhyles for the viâ— sitacion of the Lorde as ofteâ— tymes in the Prophetes and â— Cor. iii. sometyme for the endâ— death of euery man as Iohâ— vi I wyll resussitate or raysâ— him agayne to euerlastyng life in the last daye that is to sayeâ— when he dyeth For when anâ— man dyeth that day is last vntâ— hym After thys maner dyâ— Paule call the last daye in thâ— Epistle to Timothe For he had spoken before of his death saiyng I am ready to be offered affirming that he had ben faith full and loyall in his course therfore he dyd not doubte but that the rightwise iudge shulde render vnto him the coroune of rightwysnesse which as he leaueth no vnrightwysnesse vnpunyshed so alwayes rewardeth them that lobor faithfully And this place doeth rather for vs then for the Anababtistes seing that Paule dothe hope that the coroune of rightwysnesse duyd vnto the rightwyse shal be renderyd vnto him at the tyme of his death Ergo he beleueth not that the soules do slepe but that they do lyue euerlastingly That which thou aledgest out of Iohn and Paule to the Philipenses are spoken of the last iudgement but they proue not that the soules are a sleape For that whiche they doo speake of saluation there dooe perteyne more to the resurrection of the body For these are the wordes of Paule He shall transforme that is to say Christ our vyle body that he may make it conforme and lyke to his glorious body What meane these thingê elles but that our bodyes haue full hope of resurrection or risyng agayn As Iob dyd speke Iob .ix. Sy. If the soules dooe receyue by and by their iudgement as sone as they be departed what neadeth that vniuersall iudgement Ioia It perteyneth to the whole man whiche shall be repayred or made new agane with the body that shall ryse with the soule Of the which thyng it is written Chess .iiii. Mat. xxiiii .xxv. Doest thou yet desyre any thiÌ„g Sy. I had leauer heare foundations and groundes oute of the scriptures Ioia I haue brought verye many alreadye what dooest thou aske more Sy. Thou hast other helpes yet the which I pray the to bryng forth Ioia Seynge that thou arte desyrous of the truthe I wyll hyde nothyng frome the. This Doctrine and Opinion of the Sleape of the Soules dooeth not ouelye repugne agaynst the Scriptures fayth dooeth not onely disanulle the Gospell and Resurrection of Christ but is also agaynst all coÌ„mune sense reasone a rude and vnclearkelye ignoraunce but go to let vs expounde these thyngê I aske thee if the soule be a body or a spirite Sy. It is not a bodye nor any grosse substaunce but a syngle and pure spirite Ioia Can then a spirite be subiect to bodily infirmities as to be an hongered to be weryed to dye c. Sy. No for these perteyne to the bodye onely A spirite is immortall incorruptible euerlasting or perpetuall Ioiada Thou sayest very well therfore marke thyne argumeÌ„t thus Sith the soule is a spirit not a bodye it can not be subiecte to bodily passions or infirmities but is exempte frome them slepe doth chaunce to the body thorough werinesse Ergo the soule can not slepe for the soule cannot be weary Or canst thou brynge any other thynge concernyng slepe Sy. No for all operacions and senses dooe ceasse and rest and excepte the body shulde brethe folkes wold thynke that it were dead Ioia Now if our soules should slepe it shoulde folow that after this lyfe we doo feele neither good nor euyll which dothe directly pugne agaynste the Gospell Moreouer we wyl proue by the nature of the slepe that the soules can not slepe but the bodye only For now I aske the when doeth the soule slepe after that she is departed frome the body or when she is yet ioyned to the body
ye come reÌ„ning by troppes neither warninges nor praiers nor rebukes can auaile among you And whan ye be come into y â— botomles pit of miserie or myschef ye put y e faulte in the ouerseers which do geue you warnyng before w t great fidelitie trothe Whose admonitions if ye would here or rather gyue eares to y e word of god preched vnto you setforth by theÌ„ ye might liue pesibly seiÌ„g therfore y t ye cast yourselues through your onefoli iÌ„to such perplexites ye haue no caus to iÌ„pute it to y â— faithfull sheapherdes whiche warned you befor to beware of such thiÌ„gs exhorting you to peace charite coÌ„cord but to your ouÌ„e selues Sy. I haue said y â— which I do thiÌ„ke yet y â— ther was neuer a more troblous world who so euer ar y e autors of it Io. wilt thou know what y e mattier is this thiÌ„g do stirre vp sedition and timulltie y â— ye do make euery rascal knaue minister of gods word and that without any descretion Besyde this thou shewest thiselfe vtterlie ignoraunte in histories and vnexperte of wordely thynges which doest scarsely knowe the actes of one age nor doeiste not coÌ„sider farther than is at hand If thou haddest redde the hollie gospelles actes of the Apostelles thou shouldest haue founde greuouser dissentions whiche did rise of the sermons of Christ and of his apostelles Finallie that histories are full of tumultes which dyd spryng in tymes paste of the false oppinions of Marcion Valentinus Arrius Nestorius Enriches Donatus Pelagius and other heretikes Ther were great tumultes and rebellions not onely of cities townes but also of whole realmes which wer so great y t ours owght not to be compared with them Did not bothe christ himselfe and his apostels gyue warnyng before that sectes should aryse Not because that for theÌ„ we should be amasyd or despair vtterly but because that wee should y e more dilygently watch against suche pestiferous sectes not onely to auoyde and shunne them but to resiste also Paule doeth apertely saye Corin. ii that sectes muste be that thei which ar faithful maye be knowen For euen as a sieue doeth not lise the corne but clensithe from chaffe and darnell so the wheate of faithfull men doeth not perishe by false doctrines but is tryed the duste and chaffe beeng sifted out Ihon saieth Thei weÌ„t out from vs but they ware not of vs for if thei had beÌ„ of vs they trulie shoulde had remayned w t vs. Therfor we haue nede of coÌ„staunce fortitude or strenght nor we ought not inâ—oÌ„tineÌ„tly to forsake the sterne but resist corageously y â— waues and stormes This coÌ„staÌ„cy perseueraunce in the teÌ„peste is a token that wee are not light but haue beleued stedfastly and wel Tentations are signes or proues of faith and of y e truth and do manifest shew how farre we haue beleued to y e true veritee Sy. Thy meaning is good Seinge therfore y t thou shewest thyselfe so frendly toward me that we haue begoÌ„e ones to commone of these thiÌ„ges I wil opeÌ„ my whol mid vnto y e coÌ„fering many and sondry thinges w t the touching Catababtisme or oppinioÌ„s of y â— Anababtistes if so be y â— thou hast time leasyr to heare me Ioiada I wil gladly obey the and folow thy mynd If thou hast any thiÌ„g bring it forth iÌ„ gods name Sy I do meruell if ther is no good thing in the doctrine and oppinions of the Anababtistes For vnto me it semeth much otherwyse y t is to say y â— ther be many thinges strongly grounded vpoÌ„ the scriptures Ioiada This is all the good that is in it that it causâ—the a greate meanye to reade the scriptures whiche elles wolde but lyttell studye in them As for that whiche they teache well they haue it commune w t vs all the resydue wyll I proue to bee false and foolyshe I am mynded to wryte hereafter agaynst theÌ„ wherfore I had noted agaynste their doctrine certayne conclusions which the greatest parte of them doe holde For agaynst suche vngodly and blasphemous reÌ„negates which doe reiecte the scriptures which doe affyrme that the deuelles and vngodly or vnfaithfull persones shall obtaine at length the euerlastynge life doe denaye the god head of Christe and commite opeÌ„ly with out all shame suche enorme and abhomynablee actes what neade is it to wrytte But now wyl set in order my conclusions The second treatie or dialoge 〈…〉 conclusions agaynste the doctryne of the Anababtistes put here affirmatyuely â–ª euen as Ioiada which â—â—prâ—senteth the faithfull christen man doeth holde them Ioiada That spirite which repugnith agaynst the meanyng of the spirite that speaketh in the holy scriptures is not from the father of truthe but from the father of lies the deuell None of the Saintes dyd euer by violence or force set forthe or thruste them selues in to the commune office of a preacher saue onely whan they ware sente by god elected and chosen by the apostells and churche CHriste and the apostels did neuer trouble y e churche for yerthly and temporal thinges but did chiefly study to nourysshe the peace and vnitee of al the churches It appereth therfore that thei whiche doe trouble diuide any churches being wel ordeined pacified in christ for such thynges are sedicious lyers and heretykes THei are to bee counted false prophetes which not without blasphemy contempte of the crosse of Christ doteache that Christ dyd take awaie onely origynall synne affirmyng that thei which doe fail againe after that thei be ones purified and clensed by the water of regeneracion shal not obteine daily remission of their synnes Thei be also false prophetes y â— doe attribute or adscrib iustification to our owne workes Suche are blasphemous agaiÌ„st the gospell which doe conteÌ„d and affirme that the soules do slepe after this lyfe not knowyng the nature of the soule nor the vertue of the resurreccion of Chrfst Rebabtization or babtizing agayne is not of god but a new secte deuiding the vnitie of the churche wherby the most pestiferous and hurtefull heresie of Nonatus Anpencius and Pelagius is renewed THe babtime of yong infantes is of god whiche hath ben did continue alwaies in the churche sens the tyme of y e Apostels vnto this tyme not lately brought in by y â— byshops THe office or example of any christen man coÌ„pelleth not that we should not haue all thynges in coÌ„mon and nothyng priuate or to our selues but doeth moue â—â—â—orage vs to care and see to our houshold to exercise liberalitee and mercie SVche are therfore â—poters â—â—â—ules of christes flocke whiche dâ— forsake their familye and houshold and beyng addâ—â—â—ed or geuen to sedicious fables do fâ—de them selfes with other mens laboures beynge in this thyng most like vnto monkes whiche dyd the same with their hypocrisye THe preachers of the gospell or ministers of the worde of god maye haue goodes of their
kyngdome of heauen where no vncleane thing entreth it foloweth that our synnes are forgyuen vs. Sy. I do not denay but that we were ones all synners that those synnes were ones forgyuen vs by Chryste But I will saie this that after that the synnes which we committed before thorow ignoraÌ„cye be ones thorow the grace of God forgyuen vs and so bee receaued by the free gyfte and goodnesse of Christ in to y â— numbre of the chyldren of god that then we be pure holy and clene and that we ought to synne no more and that if we synne wittyngly after that we haue ones knowen receaued the grace such sinne is not forgiuen Io. But thou mightest sufficiently vnderstand by the places afore aledged â–ª that we be yet sinners styll after that we haue knowen the truthe and that those sinnes which we do daily commit as long as we ar in Christ â—e daily forgyuen vnto vs. For Chryste saieth that his disciples are all cleane but neuerthelesse that thei haue neade to washe their fete And again the father dooeth make cleane the bowghes that doo bring forth fruite in Christe If thei dooe bryng forth fruit thei do bring forth fruite in faith and in the knowen truthe for without faith it is impossible that any man shulde please God what so euer is without faith is siÌ„ne and not fruit If thei be made cleane thei haue some filthines in the knowen truthe Els thei shulde be cleane and shuld nede no clensynge or purgynge But sith that thei be made clene the filthinesses that thei do gather in bringyng forth fruit ar forgeuen and washed awaie Neither Pelagius nor Nouatus nor none of the Anababtistes is able to withstand this veritee Sy. I am not farre frome this opinion yet notwithstanding had I leuer to heare plain scriptures that a man maie come to grace as often as he synneth Io. And that can I shew vnto the besyde the fore aleged places The lorde speaketh thus by Ezechiell When the vngodly shall turne from y â— vngodlines that he hath done doeth iudgement rightwisnesse he shall get life vnto his soule Is the death of y e vngodly a pleasure vnto me saieth y â— lorde and not rather that he turne from his waies and liue Turne and repent from al your iniquitees and your iniquitee shall not hurt you In the .ii. of Ioel. Turne to y e lord your god saieth he for he is gentill and piteful he is pacient of great mercifulnes repenteth vpon y â— plage y t he had threatened Sy That whiche thou hast aleged is to be vnderstanded of the vngodly of y â— remission of sinnes y t is graunted vnto them that neuer knew god neuer beleued in him Io. I wold y â— thou shuldest loke better vpon y â— wordes of Ezechiell thou shuldest se y t he speaketh these woordes to y â— children of Israell whiche were the chosen people of god Moreouer considre with what ende he dooeth conclude this chapiter Why shoulde ye dye saieth he o ye house of Israel I wyll not the death of a sinner but y â— hereturn lyue Or canst thou returne to hym with whoÌ„ thou wast neuer before Sy. No but I doo come to hym and do not returne but with whom I was afore and from whome I was gone to hym doo I return againe Ioi Ergo it foloweth that they which are exhorted by the prophete to returne to god were somtymes with god If thei were sometymes with god ergo this is not the fyrste sinne that thei did committe afore that thei knew the truthe but it was the synne that thei committed after that thei knew the truthe and had faith We haue proued I thynke that the synnes that we coÌ„mit after the knowledge of the truth are forgeuen by God In the .xxiiii. of the Prouerbes it is written that a rightwyse man falleth vii tymes in the day ryseth a gayne but that the vngodly do fall to their vtter dampnacion Here thou hast a manifest and a playne difference betwexte the godly the vngodly or betwixt the faithfull infidell The vngodly after that he is come in to the bothomlesse pitte of vngodlynesse dothe contempne remayneth in synne to the last ende with dispayre A godlye man is not he that synneth not but he which falling .vii. tymes in the day doth not continew in synne but ryseth agayne With this place are the Palagians Nouatians and Anababtistes confounded conuicted Adde vnto these the .xviii. of Mat. the .xvii. of Luke where Christ doth plainly say If thy brother dothe trespasse agaynst the rebuke him betwixte the and him alone if he be sori for his offence or repenteth forgeue thou him And if he .vii. tymes in the day dothe offende the .vii. tymes in the day cometh to the saiyng I am sory for myne offeÌ„ce thou shalt forgeue him Sy. But he doth not saye that he wyll forgeue vs our synnes Ioia Canst thou pray or say thy Pater noster Sy. yeas Ioia Doest thou not thou pray this Forgeue vs our trespasses as wee forgeue them that trespasse against vs Vnto these woordes dothe the Lord adde by and by in the .vi. chapiter of Mathew If ye doo forgeue vnto men their fautes your father that is in heauen shall forgeue you also Seyng therfore that wee doo forgeue vnto oure brethren daily it foloweth that the father of heaueÌ„ forgeueth vs also daily Do not the saintes or holy men pray so and that euery day Nowe I aske the whether they do lye before God praiyng thus or not S. They do not lye Io. If they do not lye it foloweth that thei haue in them selfe trespasse and synnes If so be that synne as thou thynkest is not forgeuen whye dyd Christe teache vs to prai so forgeue vs our trespas Is not this an abhominable thyng that any man whiche knoweth not what he dooeth praye shoulde take vpon hym not only to be a teacher but also to teache that whiche repugueth against y e manifest truth and prayers of the Sayntes But what thynkest thou of Peter was he a faithfull ChristeÌ„ man elected of God or not Sy. He was not a faithful Christen man afore his falle els he wolde not haue denyed Christ Ioi If he had ben an infidel to what intent were these wordes spokeÌ„ mat xvi Thou artchrist the son of the lyuyng god Are these the wordes of an infidell And agayne if Peter had ben an infidell or hipocrite when he dyd make suche a godly confession Christ would not haue sayde Thou art blessed SymoÌ„ Flesh and blood hath not reuelated this thynge vnto the but my father which is in heauen The LORDE prayseth not hipocrites and infidels but abhorreth hateth them Mat. vi and .xxiii. He would not haue said vnto him he that is washed hath no neale but to washe his feete And agayne Peter I haue prayed for thee that thy faith do not faile or slake Rede