sure when any point of doctrine is to be disputed or of the true sense of some texts in the Bible then to hold our selues to Gods law which is a faithfull witnesse according to the counsell of the Prophet Esay chap 8. verse 20. to giue the exposition of the law of God in expounding it by the Scripture it selfe imitating the example of Esdras and some other Doctors of the old Testament which is represented by Nehemiah before our eies in the 8. chapter and 2. verse Euen so when a question is of the true rule and manner of prayer there is nothing more expedient then to follow in all our prayers that only forme of prayer which our Lord Iesus Christ taught his Apostles as S. Tertullian and S. Cyprian shew vs by their excellent discourses touching the excellencie and perfection of this prayer And S. Austin in his epistle which he wrote to a Christian widow called Proba Wee say no other thing saith he then that which is contained in the Lords Prayer if we pray rightly and conueniently And whosoeuer should say any thing which is not agreeable with this Euangelicall prayer though he prayeth not vnlawfully yet he prayeth carnally and I know no reason why but that one may say he prayeth vnlawfully sith that such as are regenerated by the holy Ghost ought to pray spiritually By which admonition S. Austin signifieth to all Christians that all prayers which haue not their foundation in the prayer of our Lord Iesus Christ as are such which be addressed to the Saints departed are carnall and vnlawfull But to returne to your obiections where you say that you â—et slip in silence the miracles done through the inuocation of Saints and yet you send vs to the 22 booke of the Citie of God and we send you back againe to that which wee haue formerly noted to wit that Viues testifieth that many sentences haue been annexed to that booke of the Citie of God and for that reason we ought to giue no beleefe thereunto But rather as Origen witnesseth vpon Ieremiah it behoueth vs to call for witnesses the holy Scriptures forasmuch as without those witnesses our sense and discourses are of no credit which S. Austin also giueth vs to vnderstand by this exhortation that whatsoeuer wee would haue men to beleeue we must proue it by cleere testimonies of holy Scripture and vse them against the enemies of the Church And if we should grant you that many miracles haue been done by the inuocation of Saints yet you cannot with a good conscience gather froÌ„ thence that this seruice was pleasing to God seeing that the false prophets and ministers of Satan haue sought to set vp their impieties through the lustre of many miracles Thereupon Moses aduertiseth the people of his time saying in Deut. â—3 1. If there arise among you a Prophet or a dreamer of dreames and give thee a signe or wander and the signe and the wonder which he hath told thee come to passe saying Let vs go after other gods which thou hast not known 〈◊〉 let vs serue them Thou shalt not hearken vnto the words of that prophet or vnto that dreamer of dreames for the Lord your God proueth you to know whether you loue the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soule And Iesus Christ in the 24 of Matthew and 23 verse saith If any shall say vnto you loe here is Christ or there beleeue it not for there shall arise false Christs and false Prophets and shall shew great signes and wonders so that if it were possible they should deceiue the very elect Behold I haue told you before according to which Saint Paul writeth in the â— of Thesâ— 2. that the comming of the Sonne of perdition who sâ—â—ll sit as God in the temple of God and shall exalt himselfe against God and shall be by the working of Satan with all power and signes and lying wonders and in all 〈◊〉 of vnrighteousnesse among them that 〈◊〉 Whereupon S. Austin grounding himselfe saith on the 9. Psalme That Antichrist shall vse force in his empire and deceit in his miracles And in the treatise of Antichrist which is added to his bookes Antichrist saith he shall rise vp against the elect by three manner of waies by terrors by gifts and by miracles And Chrysostome speaking of the false Doctors on the seuenth chapter of S. Matthew They cast forth diuels saith he in the name of Christ hauing the spirit of the enemie or they rather doe not cast them foorth but seeme to cast them foorth through the collusion which they haue with the diuels and so alwaies they cast them foorth and neuer doe heale The diuels euermore crie before them as if they were chastized and they neuer come foorth of them as though they were afraid Behold therefore Theophylact teacheth vs in the explication of the seuenth chapter of S. Luke and namely on the second verse that preaching is confirmed by miracles and miracles by preaching for oftentimes diuers haue done wonders by the diuels but their preaching was not sound therefore their miracles also were not of God Which Anselmus appropriating to the miracles of Antichrist in his Commentaries vpon the second Epistle to the Thessalonians and second chapter These signes and wonders saith he shall be lying either because they should deceiue the mortall through magicall visions or else because that although they should be wonders and prodigious signes yet they should draw vnto lies such as beleeue in them Moreouer Meses recounteth in the booke of Exodus that Pharaohs Magicians haue imitated and counterfeited many miracles which he formerly had done in the countrie of Egypt Also Hippocrates reciteth in his book de Morbo Sacro that some Sorcerers in his time healed many of the falling sicknesse in making sacrifices and certaine prayers because they would be reputed as holy personages The like writeth Bodin of Appolonius Thyaneus and of some other Sorcerers which chased away diuels and did many other wonders through fainednesse and collusion This is that also whereof the Emperour Charles the Great would aduertise vs by his third and fourth bookes made vnder his owne name and approued by Pope Adrians Legats and many other Bishops of France Germany and Italie which were present in the Councel of Frankford in the yeere 794. There is great danger saith he in many miracles because there may be in them some craft of that crooked Serpent which doth transfigure himself into an Angel of light for many miracles are done by those Angels reuolted by Powers or rather by spirituall subtilties which communicate to diuers miserable wretches the gift of prophecying and doe many strange things through their officers of which sort those shal be which shall say Lord Lord haue we not prophecied in thy name and haue wee not cast out diuels in thy name and by thy name done many great workes To whom the Iudge will
poore Lazarus had there endured Thirdly hee saw and knew the estate and condition of that wicked wretch and heard his prayer although he was not heard when he cried Father Abraham haue mercie on me and send Lazarus c. Notwithstanding there was a great distance betweene the one and the other as Abraham answered him finally albeit that the rich Glutton was damned saw he not Abraham heard he not his answere gaue he not his replies albeit there was a great gulfe set betweene them Now there is no man that dares deny all this because it is the Gospell and a storie pronounced by the mouth of him which cannot lie but is the very truth himselfe euen Iesus Christ. And if this thing and storie be true as it is I now charge all the Caluinian and Lutherian Ministers and say vnto them If Abrahâ—m my Masters being shut vp in Limbo and not enioying at that time the sight of God nor being blessed but through hope knew notwithstanding the things of this world the estate and miserie of the rich Glutton and heard him make his prayer and demaund will you thinke that the Saints in Paradise beholding God and his most bright sight are better priuiledged then Abraham I will reduce your paradox and superfluitie of words into this summarie If say you Abraham in Limbo being not yet blessed but through hope knew the things of this world as appeareth by the historie thereof contained in the 16. chapter of S. Luke the Saints in paradise enioying the most glorious countenance of God are not lesse priuiledged in that then Abraham Now you presuppose that this is a sure foundation that Abraham after his death knew the affaires of this world and from thence you conclude that the consequence which you draw from it is good and true I say that in your discourse you interlarde many things false and vncertaine For first you presuppose that Abraham was in Limbo and in the place of such as are not blessed but through hope when Christ spake of him and Lazarus to his disciples Whereof we can shew you the contrarie in the 8. chapter of S. Matthew and eleuenth verse where Christ saith that many shall come from the East and West and shall sit downe with Abraham and Isaac and Iacob in the kingdome of heauen In which text you may see that Iesus Christ promiseth all those which shall beleeue in his doctrine that their soules shall be transported into the kingdome of heauen where were then at that time the soules of Abraham Isaac and Iacob From whence one may easily gather that Iesus Christ vnderstood in S. Luke by the bosome of Abraham that which in S. Matthew hee calleth the kingdome of heauen In consideration whereof sundrie of the ancient Fathers haue expressed those words of Abrahams bosome by the name of Paradise Likewise there are some of them which haue concluded from the abouesaid chapter of S. Luke and some other places of holy Scripture that men at their departure out of this life enter as touching their soules either into eternall rest or into eternal torment and so consequently there is neither Limbo or Purgatorie There are two waies saith Lactantius in his sixth booke of Baptisme by which it is necessary that humane life must passe the one will carrie and lift men vp into heauen the other will cast them downe headlong into hell And Origen saith in his booke of Workes that soules which depart this world are either distributed into hell or into the bosome of Abraham In like manner S. Epiphanius in his Treatise of Heresie saith in his 19. chapter that after death there is no succour no pitie no repentance For Lazarus commeth not to the rich Glutton nor the rich Glutton to Lazarus neither doth Abraham let fall his robes from on high to inrich that wofull wretch nor the rich Glutton obtaineth not also his request though hee besought it of pitifull Abraham with many prayers For the chambers are sealed vp the time accomplished the combat atchieued the lists made voide the Crowne giuen and those which haue fought doe rest and those which haue not gained before are departed from thence and those which haue not fought cannot offer themselues any more for that purpose and those which haue lost it in the lists are put out and all things are fully accomplished after our departure out of this world S. Ierome teacheth vs the like in his discourse vpon the death of Paula Let it not grieue vs saith he for hauing lost her or rather for hauing her still for all things liue to God and all they which returne to the Lord be as in the number of his familie we account that we haue lost her but she is lodged in heauen For when Paula was in her bodie she was absent from the Lord saying I am a pilgrim and a stranger here as all my Fathers were I desire to be separated from this body and to bee with Christ. She now enioyeth the blessings which no eye hath seene no eare hath heard nor which euer could enter into the heart of man Whereof Iustine the Martyr also speaketh very cleerely in his 60 and 75. questions In the storie saith hee of Lazarus and the rich Glutton there is a declaration which conteineth this doctrine that after the soule is issued foorth of the body men cannot receiue any further succour by any care or prudence After the soule is dislodged from the body there is presently a distinction made betweene the righteous and the vnrighteous For the soules of the righteous are carried by the Angels into the places of Paradise whereof they are worthy where they haue the conuersation and view of Angels and Archangels yea euen the sight of our Lord Iesus Christ according to that which is said Being absent from the body we are present with the Lord But the soules of the vnrighteous goe into the places of hell as it is said of Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon Hell beneath is moued against thy comming and that which followeth And all soules are kept in these two places till the houre of the resurrection Whereunto S. Ambrose subscribeth by the exhortation which hee made to Christians in his Treatise of the Good of Death chap. 12. When the day of our death shal come saith he let vs march straight forward without feare into the companie of the Saints for we shall goe to our fathers and to those which haue taught vs the faith to the intent that if our workes doe faile vs our faith may succour vs and our inheritance may defend vs. Also the soule flies from hence on high she goeth to dwell with that pure good which is both perpetuall and immortall c. The soules rest is in the land of the liuing whereunto no sinnes can penetrate where liueth the glorie of vertues According to which saying S. Austine giueth vs this remonstrance in his 80. Epistle to
himselfe yet they obstinately maintaine the contrarie and that oft times against the feeling of their owne consciences withholding the truth in vnrighteousnesse and shutting their eyes and eares against this admonition of the Apostle S. Paul in his second Epistle to the Corinthians chap. 13. vers 8. That wee cannot doe any thing against the truth but for the truth Which Truth although that in these latter daies it is represented vnto vs more cleerer then euer it was yet notwithstanding of many it is vnknowne and abandoned which follow on apace the foolish deuotion of their blind leaders and who to please and obey them rather then our Soueraigne Doctor and Master Iesus Christ will not vouchsafe to take so much paines as to informe themselues of this truth by reading of the holy Scripture but like better to depend wholly vpon the Traditions of their Teachers despising through their voluntarie ignorance the exhortatioÌ„ which the Apostle S Iohn giueth vnto al Christians in his first epistle 4. vers 1. Dearely beloued beleeue not euery spirit but trie the spirits whether they are of God for many false Prophets are gone out into the world Now the more furiously the Truth is assaulted by Satan and his slaues so much the more couragiously ought it to be maintained and defended by the zealous louers of pure religion but especially by the Ministers and Pastors of the holy Gospel who according to that rule which the Apostle S. Paul prescribeth them in his Epistle to Titus 1. 9 ought to employ themselues diligently to exhort with wholesome doctrine those which are willing to bee instructed and to improoue the gainsaiers I then being called by God into the labour of his holy Ministerie haue employed my self amidst you according to that talent which it hath pleased him to bestow vpon me for the space of sixteene yeeres on these two parts of my vocation and hauing respect to the multitude and sufficiencie of my predecessors who haue taken penne in hand to instruct the ignorant and to refute false Teachers by their writings I haue contented my selfe hitherto to follow their traces in my publique Sermons and priuate Conferences with such as were desirous to profit with me in knowledge of the fundamentall points of our Christian faith according to the occasions which were presented But of late hauing seene an Epistle written by a certaine Doctor of the Augustins Order touching the inuocation of Saints sent vnto one of my Auditours to seduce thereby the sheepe which our Soueraigne Shepheard Iesus Christ hath recommended to me I held it my dutie to returne it backe againe to Leige with my answere to satisfie the desire of one of his disciples by whoÌ„ the said Doctor hauing receiued my answere promised him that shortly after he would write back vnto me againe and that effectually But seeing there are almost two yeeres past since he held my refutation and that in all y â— time he could not make some small Treatise to fulfill and accomplish his promise his silence maketh me to thinke that he hauing considered well examined and weighed the arguments of my replie hath repented himself for his foolish boasting and that if his conscience be not â—eared he feeleth himselfe alreadie checked by the truth that shineth in my Refutation which in the meane time I haue amplified and now published with his Epistle following the counsell of some excellent learned personages with hope that I shall see it bring foorth some fruite if not in the abouesaid Doctor or in some of his obstinate scholars yet at least in such as are teachable and especially in you my most deare and worthie brethren of whom I haue conceiued this hope that whereas heretofore ye haue willingly heard me to entreat of this subiect aswell in my Sermons as in my familiar discourses with you so ye will now take no lesse delight in hearing me to discourse of it in this small booke which here I present you as appertaining vnto you by a double right For first of all being consecrated to your seruice from the beginning of my ministerie the proprietie of euery instruction which through Gods grace I propound vnto men is wholly yours Besides seeing that the intention of my dispute is to shew the difference between a true and a false adoration and to perswade euery man by all possible meanes to stand fast in the true and to reiect the false to whom could I better appropriate it then to you to whom aboue all things I am bound to teach the first point and fruit of our faith which is to worship God the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ in spirit and truth and to call vpon none but him in our necessities Whereunto as I seeke to giue you some helpe by this present Treatise so doe I giue thankes to the Lord for that alreadie ye are so well grounded and instructed in this principle of true religion assuring my self that he which hath sowne this good seed in your soules wil make it abundantly to grow vp and to fructifie in such a sort that thereby his name shall be glorified your neighbour edified and your hearts fortified against all manner of tentations Finally if I perceiue that this small Treatise which I publish vnder your names be acceptable and pleasing vnto you your courtesie will serue as a spurre to pricke me more cheerfully forward in my commenced Career and one day hereafter to entreat more at large vpon this subiect through the grace of our blessed God and heauenly Father to whom I recommend you beseeching him with all my heart that it will please him most deare and worthy Brethren to maintaine you euen to the end in the profession of his truth and to replenish you with his temporall and eternall blessings for the aduancement of his glorie and the saluation of your soules From my Studie this 4. of August 1607. Your no lesse affectionated then seruiceable Pastor and brother in the Lord Iohn Polyander A small Table of the principall points contained in this Treatise FIrst Papists themselues acknowledge and confesse that the inuocatioÌ„ of Saints cannot be proued by Scripture pag. 18 Praying to Saints cannot be prooued by Scripture but absolutely disproued 19 We must call vpon God only not the Saints 19. 20. 21. 22 Christ is our only Mediatour the Saints are no Mediatours pag. 22. 23 Christ is our only Mediatour aswell of intercession as redemption 23 Saints are no Mediatours of redemption 25 Papists reiect Christ placing the Saints in his place 26 Papists exalt the Virgin Mary into the place of Christ. pag. 29. 30. 31 Papists place the Virgin Mary aboue Christ. 32. 33 The Papists place Franciscus Dominicus in Christs roome 34. 35. 36 Priests and Prophets may erre 38 The Church may erre 38. 39 Councels haue erred 39. 40. 41. 42. 43. 44. 45 Variance and contradiction among the ancient Councels 46 The holy Scripture is the touchstone of doctrine 47 The Fathers haue
vnderstanding of man And the like they do euen in this subject whereof we now intreat And therefore because they cannot conceaue how the blessed ones do heare vs they say and preach they cannot heare vs. They must also then deny that God of nothing hath created this world for it is impossible to comprehend how God was able to create of nothing so huge a frame as this whole world is and yet notwithstanding both they and we stedfastly beleeue that God euen of nothing was able to create it though our vnderstandings cannot conceaue a iot of it Let them then also denie the generall resurrection of the dead if one must denie all things which they cannot vnderstand or let them shew me how God is able to restore againe vnto man his owne flesh his owne bones and the rest of the parts of his body and not anothers after it hath bene eaten vp of wormes so many thousand yeares before and yet neither we nor they make doubt thereof though we vnderstand it not The like could I say vnto them of the mysterie of the holy Trinitie and many other things contained in the holy Scripture that albeit they are hard to be beleeued yet they cease not to be true Therefore it were much better for my masters the Ministers to confesse with humilitie their weaknesse with the good father Saint Austine and with him and vs to beleeue that the Saints can heare and assist vs. But what Heresie is too proude and the Heretikes will neuer be ouercome they may be conuinced as Saint Bernard saith but not ouercome because they are too passionate in maintaining their errours One may confound them rather then make them confesse their fault and as the prouerb saith Rather breake then bend Now to the end the Caluinists and Lutherans because we say with our father S. Austine that this is a very hard demaund to be vnderstood should not thinke that wee seeke an escape through the boggs and that the truth maketh not for vs we wil let downe before them the doctrine of that same Doctour S. Austine in his abouesaid booke De cura pro mortuis agenda For S. Austine minding particularly to declare how Abraham knew that the rich glutton had taken his pleasure in his life time and that Lazarus had suffred so much giueth vs three maner of waies whereby the soules departed may know and vnderstand that which is done in this world First by the arriuall of those which depart out of this life and goe from hence vnto them who to wit may aduertise them of the things which happen vpon the earth and especially of that which most of all concernes them The second by the report of the Angels which on a sudden mount vp into heauen and on a sudden againe euen in a trice are about vs. The third by the reuelation of Gods spirit which may beare it selfe towards the blessed departed into heauen euen in like maner as heretofore it bore it selfe towards the Prophets vpon the earth reuealing secret things to them and such as should be done a long time after them as the Scripture witnesseth so that God who seeth and knoweth all things whatsoeuer we do say and thinke may reueale vnto them our prayers S. Gregory lib. 12. Mor. c. 13. giueth vs beside these another sort or manner saying that the Saints beholding the face of God see all that which in any sort and manner appertaineth vnto them and consequently that they also heare our prayers So then by the doctrine of these holy Fathers we may somewhat gather how the blessed Saints heare vs when we call vnto them I wil make one more small argument against all these Heretikes and therewith I will conclude the whole All the holy Fathers and Doctours of the Church haue inuocated and prayed vnto the Saints they heare then our prayers The Antecedent hath bene alreadie prooued when we cited a great number of those which haue called vpon them The Consequence is cleare for seeing that so godly and learned personages prayed vnto them it is a signe and followeth necessarily how they beleeued with the Church that the Saints could well heare our prayers otherwise they would not haue bene so simple as to haue prayed vnto them To say as sometimes the Ministers say against vs that they were men and as men might haue erred that were too absurd to answere vs. For could it be possible that among so great a number of admirable vertuous and wise Doctours all of them should faile and that not one of them should haue thought whether the Saints could heare them or no Could it be possible that the whole Church should be in errour for a thousand and so many yeares and that in so many ages the Church should haue bene ignorant of that which the Lutherans and Caluinists pretend to know since so small a time Could it be possible that all the auncient Fathers and such excellent personages as S. Denis S. Athanasius S. Basil S. Iohn Chrysostome S. Iohn Damascenus S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Gregorie S. Austin and many other lights of the Church haue presented so many prayers and petitions to those which neither had eares to heare them nor eyes to behold their necessities and so consequentlie haue cast their prayers into the wind into the aire and at randome Shall we beleeue that of them Shall we beleeue that all haue erred and that our Ministers onely say well That all haue benâ— blinde and that our Ministers onely are cleare sighted That all of them haue bene simple Schollers and disciples and our Ministers their Doctours and Controllers No we will neuer beleeue any such thing Wee had rather heare the voice of our auncient godly and wise Doctours then the voice of new and vnlearned which for this cause deserue not the name of Pastours and Shephards but Mercenaires onely suffering their sheepe to be deuoured vp yea themselues through their pernicious doctrine casting them into the throat of that infernall wolfe from whom Sir I pray God through his infinite mercie to preserue you beseeching you to take in good part this which in haste I send you though vnknowne vnto you protesting before God who knoweth the hearts of all men that all this which heere I haue spoken is only for his glory and your soules health Farewell from Leige this fifth of August 1605. AN ANSWERE TO THE ABOVESAID DOCTORS EPISTLE of the Augustins order Vpon the subiect of the inuocation of Saints HAuing of late seene and read your Letter touching that controuersie which is betweene you and vs Whether it is true or how it is possible that the Saints which are aboue in heauen can heare the Prayers that you make unto them from here beneath on earth I held it my dutie to answere thereunto and chiefly to these two points whereof the first is That it can be no otherwise then very good to pray and recommend vs to the Saints the second signifieth How
you equal hir with our redeemer in calling hit Reparatrix and Salâ—atrix of mankind The queene of mercy the valiant woman which hath broken the serpents head and she alone that hath rooted out all the heresiâ—s in the world Cardinall Bâ—nauenture makes no conscience to appropriate to hit all that Dauid in his psalmes hath attributed to God the father the sonne and the holy Ghost Blessedâ— is that man saith he which liueth Mary which giueth praise vnto 〈◊〉 name which putteth his trust in hir which hopeth in hit Come vnto hir all ye that are wearie and she will giue rest vnto your soules The heauens declare thy glorie The earth and hir fulnesse is thine thou raignest eternally with God blessed are those which make much of thee because in thy mercies thou wilt wash their sins haue mercie on me mother of mercie and according to the bowels of thy mercies wash me from all mine iniquities Wicked serpent whereof bostest thou thy selfe put thy necke vnder Mary ô Ladie bruse him by the vertue of thy foot cast him down by thy force into the bottomlesse pu Saue me in thy name and deliuer me from mine vnrighteousnesse take pitie on me for my heart is readie to receiue thy will Lord for our sinnes thou hast repulsed vs and because of the virgin Marie hast taken pitie on vs. Let Marie arise and all hir enemies shall be destroyed Lord giue thy iudgement to thy sonne and thy mercy to the queene his mother God is the God of vengance Ladie saluation and life consists in thy hand O how good is God vnto them that worship his mother Come and let vs adore the Ladie let us giue praise vnto the virgin that hath saued vs. Let vs worship hir and confesse vnto hir our sinnes The Lord reigneth Mary fitteth vpon the Cherubins at his right hand whâ— dwelleth vnder hir wing is vnder a safe protection haue remembrance ô Ladie of Dauid and of all those which call vpon thy name The Lord said to my Ladie sit my mother at my right hand thou hast taken pleasure in goodnesse and holinesse and therefore shalt thou raigne with me Praise the Lord because he is good for his mercie is giuen by Mary You transferre in like manner to the Virgin that which in all humilitie of heart she sung to the honor of her Creator and Sauiour And in stead of that which she sung as the Euangelist S. Luke witnesseth in the first chapter and 45. verse My soule magnifieth the Lord and my spirit reioyceth in God my Sauiour c. Because he that is mighty hath done for me great things c. you say My soule magnifieth my Ladie and my heart reioyceth in my Ladie because hee that is mightie hath done for mee great things through Mary his mother What should I say more You celebrate in your Canticles the Virgin Mary as Lady of the Angels espouse and Mother of the eternall king Promise of the Patriarches Veritie of the Prophets Teacher of the Apostles Mistrâ—s of the Euangelists Lady of the Word and Queene of Heauen And hereupon you beseech her that she would saue her people Likewise you craue of her in expresse tearmes all that which God himselfe will or can giue vnto vs by his onely sonne Iesus Christ Impetra nobis veniam applica nobis grattam praparâ— nobis gloriam that is to say Obtaine pardon for vs applie grace vnto vs prepare glorie for vs. You haue corrupted Simeons song and in stead of that which the Euangelist Saint Luke reciteth in the second chapter and 29 verse how this good Father holding the Sauiour of the world in his armes blesseth God and saith Lord now lettest thou thy seruant depart in peace according to thy word for mine eyes haue seene thy saluation which thou hast prepared before the face of all people you misturne these his words to the handmaide of the Virgin Mary saying Lord now lettest thou depart in peace the handmaid of the Virgin Mary for mine eyes haue seene the saluation of Mary which thou hast prepared before the face of all people a light to inlighten the Gentiles c. You hold her for the true saluation the true felicitie the greatnesse of charitie the largenesse of pietie vnto whom the Angels obey as by one of your Letanies appeareth Which is worse your Cardinals and Bishops assembled in the Councel of Constance in which they condemned to death Iohn Hus and Ierome of Prague both of them Bohemians constant in the true faith to adde vnto the heape of their crueltie against these Martyrs some token of their impietie and hatred against the holy Ghost which had endowed these two witnesses with his truth and with such a mouth and wisedome against which these good fathers were not able to resist they thought good to applie vnto the Virgin Mary that prayer which is made to the honour of the holie Ghost and in stead of saying as before Veni sancte Spiritus c. to haue made them sing Veni maier gratiae fons misericordiae miseris remedium veni lux Ecclesiae tristibus laetitiâ— â—â—ne infundâ— radium Simonis nanicula fiâ—y tunicula 〈◊〉 scindatur prohibe quae DeuÌ„ hominibus 〈◊〉 inngis ô puerpera Hereses interime schismataque reprime firmâ— pacis fâ—â—era That is to say Come mother of grace fountains of mercie remedie of the wretched câ—â—e light of the Church shed vpon these heauie soules the beame of ioy the small ship of Simon surnamed Peter suffer not the little coatâ— of thy sonne to be torne in peeces ô mother in childbed which coâ—ioynest God with men and the inferiour creatures with the celestiall abâ—lish Heresies represse Schismes and establish the couenants of peace I am astonished at the blasphemies of Barnardine de Busto and Anthonine Archbishop of Florence who set the Virgin Mary aboue the onely sonne of God for see what Barnardinâ— saith of her in his Mariall Men may say of the Virgin Mary that she is the light of the Genâ—les and the glory of her people Israel For God at her natiuitie said vnto her I haue giuen thee as a light to the Gentiles to the end thou maist be our saluation to the ends of the earth a light to lighten the Gentiles All graces saith he come downe vpon vs from the Father and the Sonne by the Virgin Mary mediatrix between God and men no grace coÌ„meth from heauen but by her hands All graces enter into her and come foorth from her They are in Christ â—s in the head from whence they flow they are in Mary as in the neck which distributeth them Moreouer If any man feele himselfe grieued at Gods iustice hee may appeale to the Virgin Mary which hath been signified in the booke of Ester chap. 5. where it is said that King Abashuerosâ— being in anger and wroth against the Iewes Queene Ester came to appease him and found such fauour with the King that hee said vnto her What
Christian Church yet was it not receiued of all but only of some particular persons which were reproued and condemned therefore aswell by the iudgement and sentences of the Churches of Asia assembled in the Councell of Laodicea as by many other excellent discourses of the principall Bishops of the Greeke and Latin Churches The sentence of the generall Councell of all the Churches of Asia is described vnto vs by S. Theodoret in his Commentaries vpon the Epistle to the Colossians and the exposition of those words of the Apostle contained in the second chapter and 18 verse to wit Let no man at his pleasure beare rule ouer you by humblenes of minde and worshipping of Angels c. Those saith Theodoret which forbad the law seduced them to worship Angels alleaging that the law had been giuen by them Now this sinne remained for a long time in Phrygia and Pisilia till that the Councell assembled in Laodicea the capitall citie o' Phrygia forbad them by an expresse law not to pray vnto the Angels so that yet vnto this day is to be seene among their neighbours the Oratories of S. Michael Now because they counselled the Christians vnder the cloake of humilitie to worship the Angels S. Paul commandeth them the contrarie that they should beautifie all their sayings and deeds with the remembrance of our Lord Iesus Christ. Giuo thanks saith he vnto God the Father through him and not by the Angels And the Synod of Laodicea following this law as willing to cure this ancient maladie ordained and prouided by another law that they should not pray vnto the Angels to the end they should not forsake our Lord Iesus Christ. Now it resteth in vs to see whether our Fathers haue not taken great paines to haue plucked vp the rootes of this darnell and dangerous weede which the diuell sworne enemie against the glorie of God had sowne by night among the good graine of the pure inuocatiō of the Lords name True it is that in the beginning some haue sowne this wicked seede vnder the shadow of deuotion others haue receiued it to a good end and intention and some others not seeing to it before hand giuing it too long a time of growth it sprouted vp higher and higher and finally would haue ouertopt the truth and haue stifled it they suffered it to grow for a time with the good graine but when they perceiued that this banefull weed began to ouer grow and choake that which by the Apostles had been planted in the Church and watered by their successors they then were constrained wholly to roote it out beginning this holy labour first in the East and went forward with it towards the West For S. Epiphanius and diuers others of the seruants of God in the Easterne Churches hauing vnderstood that some superstitious women presented certaine cakes to the Virgin Mary tooke occasion from thence to reproue this abuse and to admonish them thereof in generall that they should not honour the Saints beyond measure but to honor their Lord and so consequently such as had been seduced ought to renounce their errors and to consider that Mary is not God nor hath any celestiall bodie but that she is of the conception of man and woman who as Epiphanius saith in his Treatise of Heresit steepeth in honor is dead in charitie and hath receiued her crowne in virginitie let none then concludeth he offer vp in her name for if he doe he loseth his soule Moreouer he condemneth these women of heresie by these words In them is accomplished that which was foretold some shall reuolt from the wholesome doctrine betaking themselues to fables and the doctrine of diuels for there shall be some saith he which shall giue diuine honors to the dead as heretofore they honored them in Israel And the glorie of the Saints in their time in opposition to God was an error for others which saw not the truth And this little haue we considered and written to such as will learne the truth in the Scripture and not to braue it out through vain discourses neither to arme themselues with a blasphematorie tongue so that if some will not suffer them nor receiue these profitable things but rather the contrarie we must say to him how little soeuer we are that hee which heareth let him vnderstand and hee which is disobedient let him disobey and let him trouble vs nor the Apostles no more For we haue spoken of the holy Virgin what wee deemed to be the most religious and the most profitable for the Church Afterward hee addresseth himselfe to these women and rebuketh them in that they had decked a chariot or a foure squared chaire spreading a linnen vaile ouer it and set it once a yeere before the virgin Mary and presented thereon to her certaine loaues of bread for the space of some daies He calleth this superstition a heresie and the roote of all idolatrie womens rage a false opinion Eues maladie who by the serpent was deceiued the promise of error proceeding from that wicked beast which bringeth forth no goodnesse neither accomplisheth the things promised but calleth those which are not as though they were the cause of death the mistris and guide vnto disobedience and reuolt from the truth it selfe Item a diabolical enterprise a cursed affection to the forging of Idols inspired of the diuell which vnder the cloake of righteousnesse ordinarily creepeth into the spirits of men and through diuers cunning sleights deifieth a mortall nature Also hee compareth the idolatrie of these women vnto the adulterie and whoredome of common strumpets which heate themselues in the superfluitie of many beds and trample vnder their feete the chast companie of one legitimate husband Hereupon hee confesseth that which these superstitious women were able to propound vnto him namely that the bodie of the Virgin was holy whereunto he answereth that she was not therefore God that she was a virgin worthie of all honour but not giuen vs from God to be adored but that euen she herself hath worshipped him who of her was borne according to the flesh and who is descended from heauen out of the bosome of his Father Therefore ye may see saith he why the Gospell fortifieth vs reciting what the Lord himselfe said vnto her Woman what haue I to doe with thee Mine houre is not yet come To the intent that none should presume of more then appertaineth vnto this holy virgin neither should attribute too much excellencie vnto her he calleth her woman as prophecying of the things which should come to passe in the world by reason of partialities and heresies lest that some in admiring her too much should fall into the romings of this heresie for the whole discourse of this storie is but trash and as I may tearme it an old womans tale Moreouer to take away the occasion of all excuses and replies he cleanly cutteth it off and saith that neuer any Scripture
and heare our supplications And albeit that God in his word hath coÌ„manded vs to succour one another with our mutuall prayers with promise to heare vs notwithstanding hee sheweth vs that to purchase the fauour of God wee haue no neede of any other helpe then by addressing our selues to our only Sauiour Iesus Christ we haue free accesse vnto his grace and stand sure in the same God saith he in his fifth sermon vpon the 8. chapter of S. Matthew will not grant vs so much of his grace at the request of them which pray for vs as when wee our selues pray to the end wee might vse freedome in speaking to him and that desiring to reconcile him vnto vs we may reforme our selues For so tooke he pitie on the Canaanitish woman so on the theefe without either the intercession of aduocate or mediatour And wilt thou learne this that we in praying for our selues do more good with God then when others pray for vs The Canaanitish woman cried and as the disciples came vnto him they besought Christ saying Send her away for she crieth after vs and Christ Iesus answered I am not sent but vnto the lost sheepe of the house of Israel but when she came her selfe and continued on her crying saying Truth Lord yet indeed the whelps eate of the crummes which fall from their masters table then hee did her good and said Be it vnto thee as thou desirest Thou maist see hoâ— hee put her off when others prayed for her and heard her when she her selfe prayed In like manner in his 16. sermon vpon certain texts of the Gospel according to S. Matthew he saith Is God farre from thee that thou goest to seeke him in some place He is not shut vp in any place but alwaies he is by thee And he which no place can containe faith will containe him For if thou wilt pray vnto a man thou enquirest what he doth and he to whom thou speakest heareth thee dreamingly or hath not the leisure or will not vouchsafe to answere thee With God all this is needlesse but in what place soeuer thou art if thou callest on him hee is at hand Thou â—ast no neede of an vsher mediatour or seruant doe but say take pitie on me and as soone as thou hast spoken he is there neither canst thou haue finished thy speech but hee will say here I am Againe in his discourse vpon the Canaanitish woman Tell me woman how durst thou addresse thy selfe to Iesus Christ thou which art sinfull and wicked I knew well what I doe answered she Behold the wisedome of the woman she prayeth not to Iames she addresseth not her selfe to Peter she cares not for all the Apostles she seeketh no Mediatour but in stead of all these she taketh repentance along with her for her conâ—vanion which was in place of a Mediatour for her and so is gone vnto the souraigne fountaine For said she therefore is he descended from heauen therefore tooke he flesh vpon him and made himselfe man that I might dare to speake to him aboue in heauen the Cherubims tremble before him the Seraphiâ—s feare him and heere beneath on earth a woman of a wicked life speaketh vnto him and saith haue mercie on me ô admirable aboue trembling beneath boldnesse haue mercie on me I haue no need of a Mediatour He repeateth this doctrine in his treatise of Repentance God only saith he can cure the heart who hath made the heart of euery one and who euery day vnderstandeth our affaires He then can enter into our consciences which is not possible for the Angels and Saints departed to touch our spirits and bow our soules Knowing then these things let vs haue our recourse vnto God who will and can separate our vexations For when wee haue to doe with men to obtaine any thing at their hands we must first meete with porters then perswade flatterers and oftentimes take a great iourney With God there is no such thing without either mediatour or spokesman he is inclined to heare thee without either money or charge he yeeldeth to thy prayer It is sufficient if thou criest only to him with thy heart or sheadest thy teares he is then quickly moued to mercie He addeth vpon the fourth Psalme Thou canst not say I am afraid to come neere and pray vnto God for thou hast no need of any vshers which should bring thee vnto him nor guards nor friends but when thou art alone by thy selfe then is the principall time in which he will heare thee for euen so did he with the Canaanitish woman when Peter and Iames came vnto him he did not grant her request but when she persisted on then he gaue her that which she craued From whence he draweth this conclusion in his sermon of the profit and aduancement of the Gospell Thou hast no need of any aduocates vnto God nor of any long discourse but although thou beest alone without an aduocate and praiest thy selfe vnto God thou shalt obtaine thy desire Touching the intercession of the Saints departed he determineth nothing thereof particularly but writing to Râ—parius he admonisheth vs in generalâ— that we ought not to worship neither Reliques Angels nor any other creature whatsoeuer And so oft as he treateth of prayer he exhorteth vs not to haue our recourse to any creature but vnto God only and to follow in our prayers that forme of prayer and instruction of our Lord Iesus Christ which hee recommendeth vnto vs in his 14 Sermon vpon S. Matthew where hee saith that hee which prayeth not as Christ hath taught is none of Christs disciples and that the Father willingly heareth the prayer which his Sonne hath indited because the Father knoweth the intention and words of his Sonne neither receiueth any thing but what his wisedome hath expounded reiecting all that men haue inuented and followed through custome and vsurpation So is it then that Iesus Christ the only Sonne of God hath taught vs to call vpon our heauenly Father but in his name And S. Chrysostome expounding the fifth verse of the first Epistle to Timothy Chap. 2. There is one God and one Mediatour betweene God and man which is the man Christ Iesus noteth vpon this place that Christ to be our Mediatour ought to be ioyned with God and Man and that if hee were separated from the substance of the Father and had no naturall communion therewith he could in no wise be our Mediatour And to the end wee should not thinke that God is pleased with doing vs good and giuing â—are to our requests for the sake and merit of any other Saint he signifieth to vs that all men except our Redeemer Iesus Christ haue been defiled here with some sinne God saith he in his 40. Sermon on Genesis permitted that sometimes the righteous through their owne will should fall into sinne to the intent that he alone should be without sinne From hence it chanced that Abraham hath sinned
and ioyned to the companie of Saints Now this that Ierome hath plainly spoken of Nepotian that he heard him not he also vndoubtedly hath beleeued and vnderstood of Paula and the other Saints departed who are established in their blessed estate and receiued into paradise to enioy there the same rest with him The second reason is that hee manifestly declareth to vs in his Commentaries vpon the prophecie of Ezekiel that the Saints liuing in this world cannot succour vs nor consequently the departed through their prayers and intercessions For in his exposition of this admonition of the Prophet Ezekiel chap. 14. vers 14. though these three men Noah Daniel and Iob were in the midst of Ierusalem c. they could neither deliuer them nor their owne daughters What shall we say saith Ierome of those which thinke that by the merit and vertues of their fathers their peruerse children may be deliuered froÌ„ hell fire Euery one shall die through his owne sin and and shall be saued through his owne righteousnesse In vaine the Iewes say Abraham is our father hauing not his workes bâ—t if there be confidence in any let vs put our trust only in the Lord. The third reason for that he testifieth of these two Christian women who had bin instructed by him to wit Paula and Blesilla is how they vpon the point of their death did not recommend themselues to the Virgin Mary nor any of the saints in paradise but to their only Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ. When saith he the feuer burned Blesilla and that her bed was besâ—t with her dearest friends behold her last words were Pray yee to the Lord Iesus Christ that hee forgiue me Likewise who will giue me wings saith Paula as a doue that I may flie from hence and rest me My soule thirsteth after thee my flesh oftentimes wisheth for thee Notwithstanding this we cannot wholly excuse him For himselfe requiring Paula by his prayers to succour him in his old age followed not y â— rule which he himselfe had giuen to Paula and Blesilla to call only vpon God neither the example of their confidence in the only Sauiour Iesus Christ and sith that herein he hath failed as by his owne instructions we haue proued his authoritie bindeth not vs to follow his error Now resteth that supplication which according to your opinion S. Austin made to the Virgin Mary and to all the saints For proofe whereof you cite the 40 chapter of his Meditations where he saith Holy and immaculate Virgin mother of God mother of our Lord Iesus Christ vouchsafe to make intercession for me vnto him of whom through thy vertues and merits thou wast made the holy Temple You alleage with a bad conscience this booke of Meditations for you know that Erasmus and some other Doctors durst not affirme it to be S. Austins Also you are not ignorant that the Canon Garet attributeth this supplication to Fulbert Bishop of Chartres And indeed whosoeuer shall conferre this prayer printed vnder S. Austins name with his sentences which I haue alreadie alleaged against you whereby he absolutely condemneth the inuocation of Saints will iudge with these learned men who had a better conscience then you that none can attribute vnto him this prayer without doing him shame and accusing him of manifest contradiction in his writings and of faining in that which he saith of Iesus Christ that hee only can present vnto God his Father the prayers of his people because there is no saluation but only in him and of himselfe that he speaketh more safely to Iesus Christ then to all other saints in paradise After this as in a passage you propose against vs the authoritie of S. Leo and S. Gregory Popes S. Gregory of Tours S. Anselmus and S. Bernard And you could name many other protectors of your cause if you were not of an opinion that the halfe of them which you haue already named were not more then too sufficient to make the Caluinists and Lutherans to blush if they had any blood in their hearts I confesse that the inuocation of Saints and namely of the Virgin Mary was finally authorized by the latter of these Popes if that be true as is reported and brought vp by all force into the seruice of the Church about the yeere of Christ 600 because that in those daies there was no more Athanases nor Chrysostoms nor Cyprians nor Austins to stop the breach and repulse it from gaining the heart of the vulgar people I confesse also that Anselmus and Bernard liuing in that miserable age wherein superstition was the Mistris of the field strooke their sailes and halted on both sides to accommodate themselues to the custome of their time through feare and carnall wisedome but I adde hereunto that if you had euer a veine in your heart of shame you would then blush in your soule and would be ashamed to ranke Anselmus and Bernard with these who through their writings haue confirmed your tradition touching the adoratioÌ„ of Saints For it was impossible for them to confirme you and your predecessors in your opinion seeing themselues were neuer firme therein but very inconstant and variable For at sometimes they counselled the Christians to come vnto God by the Virgin Mary calling her the Mediatrix and Sauiouresse of mankinde at other times they admonished them of the cleane contrarie and to addresse themselues to God only through the intercession of his only Son and not to put their hope but in the mercie of the Father and in the full satisfaction which his Sonne hath made to him for our sinnes Howsoeuer it be we finde in Anselmus Meditations the formall of prayer which he made vnto God and published to the intent al Christians might vse it with him for their instruction and consolation Lord my God saith he I pray vnto thee because thou art neere vnto all those which â—all vpon thee and those which call on thee in truth for thou art the Truth I beseech thee let thy truth then teach me that I may inuocate thy clemencie for I cannot pray as I ought but most blessed truth I beseech thee to instruct me To be wise without thee is to become foolish but to know thee is perfect knowledge O diuine wisedome instruct me and learne me thy law for I beleeue that he is blessed whom thou shalt instruct and he to whom thou shalt teach thy law I desire to inuocate thee and intreate thee that it may be in truth What is it to call on the truth in truth but to inuocate the Father by the Sonne for what is there more sweete then to pray the Father by his only Sonne and to moue the Father vnto compassion by the remembrance of his owne Sonne So haue wicked liuers been taken out of prison and bonds so those which are condemned to lose their heads recouered not only their liues but an extraordinarie fauour when they shew to the angrie fathers
Whosoeuer is called ought to come vnto God without waiting for any other name The sighes of the heart penetrate the heauens We ought to woâ—ship in the Temple but not the TeÌ„ple The Father hath exalted his Sonne aboue all creatures by that voyce which speake fâ—oÌ„ heauen Heare him The sinne of those which pray in another name then Iesus participates not so much of ignorance as of scorne God will neuer reiect the requests which himselfe hath commanded vs to addresse vnto him It is the humanitie in our Mediatour which prayeth for vs and his Godhead which decreeeth vpon our prayers Christ being true man commeth vnto his equals and through his righteousnes he reuniteth theÌ„ with God There is no way to come vnto God but by the Sonne of God himself The Apostle saith we haue and not you haue to shew that he himself hath need of a Mediatour The dignitie of the Apostles hath not exempted them from the necessitie of falling downe at the feete of God The Apostle desired to be assisted with the prayer of the Saints for asmuch as they were addressed to him who is the head of the Saints It is to dishonor the Saints and to grieue them â—o attribute to them that which they know appertaines vnto God Reuel 19. 10. The Angels and the faithful which know that God will not giue his â—onor to another of which he is iealous will neuer present theÌ„selues to haue part thereof If Iesus Christ were but simply men hee could not be capable to bring vs vnto God By the vaile of Christs humanitie we enter into the Sanctuary We ought not to flie from the meanes of him who hath suffred for our miseries As from ill manner good lawes are proceeded so are calumnies against the truth of the constitutions of Councels and good Doctors What prudeÌ„ce cannot take away patience doth beare withall Satan letteth slip no opportunitie to sow his cockle Satan seekeâ—h euermore to authorize his Ragins to the preiudice of the truth The time wherein S. Denys Areopagite liued The celebration of the vertues of some is charitable but it is impietie to pray vnto theÌ„ The conâ—ereÌ„nce of these words of S. Irenaeus with that which the Iesuite imposeth discouereth more plainly his impudency Impudencie discouered We ought not to alleage that which is done for that which ought to be done Leasings would faine couer themselues Iohn Damâ—soenus S. Ambrose and S. Ierome c. haue passed their limits and we ought to note but not to imitate that which they haue said As the ancieÌ„ts did often bring in the Saints speaking so spake they sometimes to them as if they had been present The aduersary is driuen into absurditie by good strong reasons The soule of him which shal haue sinned shall be that which shal die Wise words of two women in great extremitie The Papistical Doctors make no conscience to discouer the shame of their fathers seeing they attribute to them such shamefull matters We auouch that superstition got the vpper hand but we denie that we ought to cleaue vnto it A formular of Anselmus his prayers A similitude Our demerits are forgiuen through the merit of the Sonne of God Another forme of Anselmus to comfort the sick S. Bernard sends vs to Christ. As we are of Christ and not of another so ought we to stay with Christ. The Virgin Mary seeketh not to disrobe her sonne or to be clothed with his robes The wel-spring of our merits is in the grace of God and not in the righteousnesse of meÌ„ The time and place when S. Bernard florished A double dishonor done to Origen Albeit that Origen was an impure writer in some other points yet he hath shewed himselfe pure in the article of inuocation There is no likelihood that Origen who sent vs vnto God only should addresse himself to meÌ„ The words of Origen are very expresse against the inuocation of Saints What might haue been the offence of the Vrgin Mary The Papists imposture appeareth not only in that they aâ—de and diminish to the word of God but in that they make the Doctors of the Church to say what iâ— pleaseth them The Papists take delight in troubling the â—ountaine of liuing waters The mysterie of Satan appeaâ—eth notably in the lesuits Index exâ—urgatory Shreds of the abouesaid Index whereby one may haue knowledge of the whole peece As Rauâ—ns turne aside froÌ„ the sound parts of a carkesse and fall vpon the rotten so the Iâ—suâ—ts reiect that which is most holy in the writings of the Fathers and stand vpon the impure It is an easie matter for the Iesuits to fight with the bones of the dead which cannot speake Those which are proued falsiâ—iers ought to be no more reputed as worthie of credit and beleefe Mariners in the obscuritie of a tempest haue their recourse to their compasse and needle and Christians to the law A saying of S. Austins very worthie to be noted Deut. 13. 1. The reprobats theÌ„selues haue done guilefull miracles Matth. 24. 23. 24. 25. 2. Thess. 2. By how many meanes Satan shal exalt himselâ—e against the faithfull Why Antichrists signes are called lies A notable sentence of Charles the Great touching miracles The pretended miracles of Popedome are rather a presumption of a false then of a true seruice The subiect for which the Papists tearme vs heretikeâ— declareth them to be imposters and heretikes themselues 1. Kings 8. 38. Caluin speaketh to the foolish according to their folly If the Saints see all things within the mirrour of eternitie it would follow that they should see the day of the comming of our Lord Iesus Christ which is false Eccles. 9. 6. Esay 63. 16. Luther and Caluin haue not bound their aduersaries to proue the inuocation of Saints by the Scripture The Papists are to make good that which they affirme and not in vs which denie disproue the inuocation of Saints We neither denie nor affirme any thing of our own sense but from the authoritie of the holy Scripture Eccle. 9. 16. Esâ—y 63. 16. Two false principles and grounds of the Papisticall Doctors The Papists caÌ„ neuer proue that the Angels are the reporters of the prayers of the Saints before God Our conformitie with the Angels is not yet but when we shal be glorified From things or persons which are vnlike we ought not to draw like conclusions An argument from the least to the greatest which hath more colour then strength It is impietie to say Abraham was in Limbo Matth. 8. 11. Lactantius Origen Epiphanius S. Ierome A notable saying of Iustine the Martyr An excellent doctrine of S. Ambroses The doctrine of S. Austin touching the place of our retreate at our departing this world Neither the holy Scripture nor the Catholike Fathers giue any third places to soules after their decease The historie of Lazarus is parabolicall Though Abraham should haue heard the complaints of the rich Glutton it followeth not from thence that the Saints heare our prayers The Trinitie serueth not as a mirror in heauen to coÌ„template all things therein Albert Master vnto Thomas of Aquin denieth that which other of the Popish Doctors his successors doe affirme Charitie is the marke of the children of God and not of the reprobate The aduersaries argument retorted VpoÌ„ bad foundation theâ—e can be made no good building Places suspected of S. Austins S. Austin doth absolutely deny that the Saints meddle with our affaires A good argument from the greater to the lesser Absurdities that followe if we should grant that the Saints departed haue to do with our affaires Three pretended meanes of the Papists whereby the Saints might heare our prayers There is no likelihood that S. Gregorie took pleasure in coÌ„tradicting himselfe The examination of those three meanes abouesaid of the vnderstanding of our prayers