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A92974 Flagellum flagelli: or Doctor Bastwicks quarters beaten up in two or three Pomeridian exercises, by way of animadversion upon his first booke, intituled, Independency not Gods ordinance. / By J.S. M.A. Published by authoritie. Sadler, John, 1615-1674. 1645 (1645) Wing S276; Thomason E298_25; ESTC R200240 16,323 26

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their word and bond I know not what that Faith should mean we ordinarily take faith for that whereby we believe and not that which we believe or if you take it so metonymically objectively what is it other then God or the will of God which I suppose you mean the Word of God For God or his will in its Essence is not immediately objected to us but hee reveales his will in his Word but to the substance of this boast and that that followes if there be any substance in it if you will believe God and the sufficiency of his institutions without the sureties of humane reason and authority as you do here equivalently professe you will not be offended at the Congregationall Way for that inconsistency and deficiency that is carnally objected against it As for that you say pag. 6. That this is no new opinion of yours it is no more then the Papists may say for their Mysterie of Iniquity And as for your sufferings for it which you boast of alas sufferings are subject to the same vanity and bondage of corruption as doings yea and the whole creation are i. to be applyed to ill things and graffed with an ill cause though I say not it was ill as opposing Prelacie or as it was a graduall recidivation from that tyranny And as for the acceptance of your endeavours and sufferings in that cause and your inference thereupon That therefore you see no good reason why a truth then should not be counted a truth now You beg the Question Prove first it was a truth otherwise 't is no wonder if that which seemed to be a truth six or seven yeers ago finde not the same acknowledgement now as might be instanced in many particulars Next you come to state the Question pag. 7. and immediately you give that which you call a simile of it but if it be it is 1. a carnall one and I had rather heare and it would better become a spirituall man to compare spirituall things with spirituall for Christs institutions must not be exacted by the Last and Rule of humane ordinances God gave Moses the pattern of the Tabernacle in the Mount he doth not send him to take a pattern for it from any earthly frame or fabrick though there were far more costly and curious but the Tabernacle was to have and had a fashion by it self that differed from all When we know the true nature of spirituall things of the devices of God as I may call them wee may finde a resemblance of them in things here below which are made after them but wee cannot fetch the knowledge of heavenly composures from these earthly things 2. Yet neither is this bed of your simile large enough for the tall and proper limbs of your Presbytery to stretch themselves upon For though the severall Companies in each city as you say though wee have not many such cities in England except you have more of them in Scotland wherein there are such severall Companies that have all their severall halls e. g. Merchant Taylors Grossers c. for to yeeld the matter of this simile are not independent but associate and combined in a common councell c. yet there are Corporations as small as these Companies in the Kingdome that are Independent and doe not act in association or coordination So that if the Churches in the Citie must to hold correspondence with the forme of Civill Government be in association and act in a Presbytery yet this Simile will not carry any such thing to an ordinary understanding that in the Countrey where they live three or foure or more miles asunder and act their Civill affaires independently they must doe so Nay then we will argue from the Simile If the Townes in the Countrey be independent in their Civill Government that is act singly and independently in respect of any other Townes intermedling their own businesses and concernments as they doe why should not the Churches in those Townes doe so too then at least the Churches in the Countrey must be exampted from Presbytery But 3. I answer to your simile That as it is shorter then that Presbytery as you would be willing to extend it in the praxis may stretch it selfe upon so it is abs re farre from illustrating the sense you intend For your simile in the true resolution of it proposes no other then whether Inferiors may act independent of their Superiors For all those appeales whereof you speake are still resolved into a higher notion power and authoritie e. g. The Lord Major Court of Aldermen and Common Councell are superior to any Company or Companies of the Citie in degree as their rulers or amount to a superioritie in value and summe as the representative of the Citie the whole which is better then any part therefore your simile is not fit for this purpose But now if you would propose a proper simile it should be thus Whether Companies or Corporations equall and coordinate may not and doe not act their owne proper affaires and concernments independently in respect of one another i. Whether if a Citizen of Merchant-taylors Company be aggrieved by the carriage of any thing in that Company he can so appeale to the Company of the Stationers and the Company of the Vintners and two or three more or the Heads of these as to subject the Company of Merchant-taylors to the jurisdiction and arbitrament of those Companies for this is the case here As suppose there be no imparity i. superioritie or inferioritie in the Churches but all are coordinate all are one Spouse to Jesus Christ and he intrusts one Congregation as well and as much as another and gives them as large a share of common interest in spirituall government or managing the matters of his Kingdome one Church as another and hath made no Common Councell no Court of Aldermen no Lord Major in his Church nor no Officers or distinctions answering to these And suppose further that as neither male nor female bond nor free so such a distinction of whole and part have no place in this matter but Christ Jesus the quickening Spirit be as in all so all in all and each of these particular bodies and as a whole Christ went for the ransome of each particular Beleever and a whole Christ is in every beleever as the soule tota in toto so the whole and intire glory of Jesus Christ be intrusted with every particular Congregation i. an intire and perfect administration of all government be committed to them and the intire * spirit of government be in each such Congregation Suppose I say it be thus as I conceive it will be found to be that each part be to Christ as the whole Christ being indivisible and recollecting his whole selfe in himselfe and in every part of himselfe which the spirit of humane power order and authority cannot doe and so we cannot weigh Christ against Christ Christs