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A51253 An antidote against the spreading infections of the spirit of Antichrist, abounding in these last days under many vizors being a discovery of a lying and antichristian spirit in some of those called Quakers ... in relation of what passed in writing between them, and Thomas Moore, Junior, after and upon occasion of a meeting at Glentworth, with the sum of what was discoursed at that meeting also ... / by Tho. Moore, Junior. Moore, Thomas, Junior.; Naylor, James, 1617?-1660. 1655 (1655) Wing M2597; ESTC R6849 119,742 126

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is ascended into the heavens after the like unto which consideration David is not ascended but dead and buried And after what consideration is that otherwise than in that body in the humane nature which is now received up into glory even therein and so God hath actually fully and gloriously made that same Jesus whom they crucified both Lord and Christ See Act. 2. 22-36 and 5. 30 31. And the Heavens must receive him till the restitution of all things Act. 3. 21. In the heavens being opened Stephen saw the Son of man standing on the right hand of God signifying his readiness and power to help and stand by his suffering Saints even the same that descended into the lower parts of the earth is ascended up far above all heavens Within the reach of our sight or comprehension of our mind as here below without some supernatural demonstration and strenthning to behold when t is affirmed Stephen saw the heavens opened and the Son of man standing c. Eph. 4. 8-10 Heb. 4. 14. If any shall here think to amuse us with such Questions As are we sure what is meant or signified by the word Heaven when used in this case that is what is meant by that heaven or those heavens into which our Forerunner in our nature is entred and in which he is received untill the restitution of all things whether is meant thereby a place on high in which that one personal body resideth or some state of glory dignity or spirituality into which Christ might pass or ascend For Answer to this We say first let it be remembred That it is distinctly proved That it is Christ after the same consideration of him in which he was laid in the Sepulchre I mean in that body in our nature which they slew the same though not in the same quality but raised a spiritual and glorious body that is ascended and not as this foolish question would in the issue of it lead us to conceive Christ passing out of flesh into spirit or out of that body into an imagination as we may truly call it in the bodies and souls of others This being remembred which also will again appear in our Answer we answer thus That by heaven may sometime bee meant some state or condition of happiness or glory as well as a place we shall not oppose but the Question here being only what is meant or signified by Heaven or the Heavens when Jesus Christ his ascending into them and being there received is spoken of to that we answer Most frequently when so spoken of it signifies directly and only speaks expresly of the place into which hee is gone in that body and where he is received untill the restitution of all things and not of the state of dignity or glory which he there possesseth that is usually signified by another phrase joyned with his ascension into Heaven namely his sitting down on the right hand of God on the right hand of power and of the Throne of Majesty in the Heavens observe That word in the Heavens signifies the place in which he is so dignified The word when so used alwayes especially means it and frequently speaks only expresly of the place c. And what that is we thus far farther answer in which farther Answer we shall more fully demonstrate the truth of what is said 1 The Heavens or that place of glory or heavenly places on high where the most glorious being dwelling and presence of the Essence and Majesty of God is who though in r●spect of his inspections influences and operations he be every where and in his gracious spiritual presence and manifested nighness in and through his Son dwelling in Son even in the hearts and societies of his people yet in respect of the most glorious presenc● and dwelling of the Essence of his Majesty he dwelleth in the light into which no man no meer man as from Adam can approach whom no man hath seen at any time nor can see 1 Tim. 6. 16. Joh. 1. 18. The Lords Throne is in Heaven Psal 11. 4. In heaven as opposed to the earth where we are so heaven is expr●sly said to be the place of his habitation from whence he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth Psal 33. 13 14. God is in heaven and thou on the earth saith the Preacher Eccles 5. 2. therefore let thy words be few in prayers or speaking to God as considering his Greatness and Majesty so infinitly above thee and his perfect discerning of thy thought afar off which is therein signified for from heaven where is the Throne of his Majesty he perfectly beholdeth all the sons of men His eyes behold his eye-lids try the children of men yea the greatness of his glory is signified in its being so far above us and unapproachable by us O Lord our Lord how excellent is thy name in all the earth Thou hast set thy glory above the heavens Whence also our Saviour directs us That in all prayers this be commemorated in our acknowledgement of the Father That he is in heaven likewise examples and instructions are frequent in Scripture to the use of that gesture of lifting up the eyes to heaven in our prayers prayses c. With the Father in the heavens even in that light into which no meer man can approach is that Son of man that is the only begotten Son of God appearing in his most glorious presence in the heavens themselves 1 Joh. 2. 1. Heb. 9. 24. set on the Throne of his Majesty in the heavens not on the earth Heb. 8. 1. 4. with Chap. 7. 26. 2 The heavens as opposed to the earth to that earth where the Disciples were and where while they remained he was parted from them in his being carryed up into heaven and where while they did or we do remain we are personally absent from that person and have not him personally with us as he is in heaven in the time of this our mortality See the Scriptures forecited with that 2 Cor. 5. and Matth. 26. 11. Mark 14. 7. Joh. 12. 8. The highest heavens as opposed to the lower parts of the earth where he was buried Eph. 4. 8-10 The heavens are opposed to the earth where the former high Priests served Heb. 8. 4. 3 The heavens from which at his second appearing he shall descend or come down We look for the Saviour from heaven Phil. 3. 10. Wait for his Son from heaven 1 Thess 1. 10. The Lord himself shall descend from heaven 1 Thess 4. 16. where by heaven cannot be meant his state of dignity and glory but his place only in which he is now received for us and possesseth that glory for in respect of his state of dignity and glory as he is personally glorified in and with it he shall never descend or come lower but keep his station even then when he shall be seen coming in the clouds of heaven yet still sitting on the Right hand of God
the Gospel or testimony of God concerning him who hath abolished death by his appearing and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel 1 Cor. 15. 1-4 1 Pet. 2. 24. Rom. 4. ult 2 Cor. 4. 6. 2 Tim. 1. 10. and 2. 8. In this the Spirit and teaching of God is primely known and distinguished from all others it doth unto and for all things confess acknowledge and praise or commend Jesus Christ as already come in the flesh not coming but come and now through sufferings entred into glory in that his own personal body in our nature and for us according to the Apostles Doctrine 1 Joh. 4. 1 2 3 6. for reproving the world and teaching and leading the beleever into all truth It takes of his things and shews to the soul and so glorifies him even lifts up the Son of man the personal abasement sufferings or cross of Christ with the ends and vertues thereof as now manifested in him being raised and received up into glory Joh. 16. 8 9 10 13 14. with Joh. 3. 14. Rom. 1. 1-3 4. 1 Tim. 3. 16. 2 Tim. 2 8. This is so the summe and subject matter of all the Fathers teaching That every one that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to Christ according to the testimony God hath already given of him Joh. 6. 45. And he that beleeveth not the testimony or record that God hath already given of Christ maketh God a lyar 1 Joh. 5 10. Yea it is so the summary and fundamental matter of all his teaching that he is said to learn all truth and so to teach and lead into all truth in Jesus in the demonstration opening and usefulness of Jesus and those things of him according to the record God hath given of him by the one month of a ● his Prophets and Apostles since the world began Eph. 4. 20 21. with Joh. 16. 13 14. Act. 3. 20 21. This the purpose and grace of God given us in Christ from the beginning now manifested by the appearing of Christ c. as 2 Tim 1 9 10. That the Son of man must be lifted up above all and for or unto all help and healing of men even as Moses lift up the Serpent in the wilderness That whosoever beleeveth in him should not perish but have eternall life For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son namely the Saviour of the world and to be so lifted up That whosoever beleeveth in him c. Joh. 3. 14 15 16. 2 Those things contained in the matter of Gods teaching as springing out of and arising from the things main and fundamental are Doctrines and Instructions concerning all things needful to be known given and opened in and through the demonstration opening and usefulness of the knowledge of him in what he hath done and is become for us for so saith our Savior The holy Spirit as now coming forth in and with the testimony of Jesus as the works of our salvation are finished in his body he shall reprove the world of sin of righteousness and of Judgem●nt and all this in with and through that testimony of Jesus as given forth to them for thus he explicates Of Sin because they beleeve not on me of Righteousness because I go to my father and ye see me no more He comes down no more to suffer in which the infinit and abiding vertue of his once suffering is declared And the second and glorious Appearance they should not see in the time of this mortality nor till we all come together Of Judgement because the Prince of this world is judged already which also was done in him as Joh. 12. 31 32. speaking of that vertually done from the beginning now presently to be actually done in his own body and by his being lifted up from the earth both on the cross and then because of that being raised on the right hand of Majesty he saith now is the judgement of this world now is the Prince of this world cast out And with this Argument or in the Demonstration and usefulness of this as he reproves the world of Righteousness that all theirs is nothing his onely perfect and will stand them instead So he reproves them also of Judgement shews the vanity and falseness of all theirs whether of Condemnation or Absolution or in their apprehensions concerning things and persons And likewise he saith He shall teach them the beleevers on him further in and by the same Instrument and shall so lead them into all truth and shew them things to come for saith he He shall not speak of himself but whatever he shall hear that shall he speak he shall take of my things and shew unto you he shall glorifie me c. Joh. 16. 8 14. In the demonstration and opening of him God learneth all truth and so also therein instructeth and directeth to all right demeanors towards God and men So the Apostles gave all their commandements by the Lord Jesus in the demonstration opening and applying the things of him did give the ground and reason of them shew their equity move and press to the observing them in the strength afforded in those mercies of the Lord in and through that testimony of Jesus 1 Thes 4. 2. Rom. 12. 1. 1 Pet. 1. 13-18 c. Ephes 4. 1-8 10. For that Grace of God that bringeth Salvation to all men especially in this appearance of it now come forth by Jesus Christ teacheth that denying ungodliness and wordly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world looking for the blessed hope and the glorious appearance of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ c. Tit. 2. 11 12 13. 2 That in the second place propounded to be considered is where and how this teaching of the Father is held forth by himself unto men surely that is 1 In all the books of his Creation and providence in all mercies chastisements and changes of his providence with men Job 33. 14-29 30. and 36. 22. 26. Psal 19. 1-7 107. with Rom. 10. 17 18. But 2 More clearly and abundantly in the holy Scriptures which were both given and left upon record by immediate inspiration and furniture of God Rom. 15. 4. 2 Pet. 1. 19 20 21. 1 Cor. 14. 37. 2 Pet. 3. 2. 1 Joh. 1-4 5. and are therefore profitable for all doctrine or teaching c. They are able being his words and preserved in the Records of them from any fundamental or material perversion on the account of his righteousness who hath so promised Psal 12. 6. Prov. 12. 19. Isa 8. 16. 20. 44. 25 26. and so owned by him and accompanied with his spiritual presence to the end of the world Mat. 28. 20. able I say to make us wise to salvation both of our selves and others through faith which is in Christ Jesus and throughly to furnish the man of God to every good word and work 2 Tim. 3. 14 15 16 17.
by working the same things over again in our persons that were wrought and finished for us in the Person of Christ not by making us bear our sins in our own souls and bodies that with our stripes we might be healed not by giving his Son again to dye in us for our sins and in us to rise from the dead for our Justification to ascend into the Heavens and sit on the right hand of God for besides that those were such works as could not be accomplished in our persons so also they were finished in his not to bee iterated But the knowledge of the truth and goodness of them given in the testimony of Jesus and of these Works as wrought and finished in him and the infinite and abiding vertue of them with the Father for us that so in beleeving in him we might finde the Word or Testimony of him through the Spirit effectually working the Works of God in us Neither Secondly doth he give the revelation of these things now immediately as to the first Apostles nor in such manner as to the Prophets of old but now mediately through their Word and by the evidence and demonstration of the Spirit therein So Timothy and all secondary Ministers then and since received their Word their Knowledge and furniture in the things of Christ In the conclusion of this Discourse I desired that if any would reason about the things they had heard by way of opposition or otherwise it might be without confusion and in such order that the people might understand what was spoken to what opposed or contended for and what was said on both sides And to this purpose I told them I thought it would be convenient to digest the sum of what had been into some few Questions to be discussed viz. what the Essence of Christ is whether something essentially in many Persons or one Person distinct from all other Persons and if one Person granted then concerning his Works whether Christ did bear our sins in his own Personal Body only as the propitiatory Sacrifice or Sin offering or so also in the bodies or souls of others And so whether in the works done in his own Body in his abasement and exaltation there was and so remaineth in him in our Nature with the Father in the Heavens by means thereof the only and abiding vertue for the taking away of sin or is the vertue for that also chiefly or at all originally in some other work or works done in other persons and about his second appearing and the glory then to be revealed whether that be to be waited for by all Beleevers in this corruptible state of the World all the time of their Mortality or made in or to any in this day and concerning the manner of Gods teaching these things and our learning them of him whether it be by having the same things wrought or accomplished over again in us that was in Christs Person as set forth to be the Propitiation or by receiving the testimony of him in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power and if so how that whether mediately through the Apostles word or immediately as they The Quakers being come in s●on after the beginning of this Discourse To this James Naylor answered That there were two things that I had uttered in Discourse which he denied which when I had made good or if I could not acknowledged my self a Lyar they would proceed to the Questions the two things were 1 That God was not manifest in the flesh of the Saints 2 That Timothy had not the same testimony that Paul had what answer I then gave may be seen in what follows in my Answer to their Charges and to James's Letter but when I shewed how he falsified my sayings he called me Lyar c. such Language was ordinary from them And so pretending want of satisfaction and doing what he could to ●inder the people from receiving satisfaction as to these things he kept off from the Questions propounded till one of them viz. Rich. Farnsworth began a set speech concerning himself which he continued about an hour at the conclusion of which I was desi●ous to minde the people of the evil and contrariety to the Gospel of some of the things spoken by him that they might so mark as to eschew as Rom. 16. 17. but as soon as I began for but by the way calling his Discourse a witness of or concerning himself I had presently himself and two or three more upon me bidding me stop my mouth Hee abhorred self which yet also was but his own witness concerning himself one of them charged me with opposing or blaspheming the words of the eternal God spoken by that man yet at last I got liberty to shew his abuse of some Scriptures as in the following Discourse then it being afternoon about an hour and my self and some others having rid ten miles that morning before the Meeting Mr. Wray d●sired us to break off for an hour to refresh our selves and likewise that we might meet at the publick place afterward for more conveniency of roome his House being too straight for the Company he likewise invited James Naylor and his Companions to stay Dinner which whether any of them accepted I know not but divers of them grosly abused him for desiring an hours Respite yet said nothing against meeting at the publick place whether soon after we went and many people but they came not at us but sent us word when we had been there some time that they would ●ot co●● there and at our return from thence that if we would meet them in some place in the Street or in a Yard where they appointed they would farther reason with us which we judged unreasonable and therefor● refused yet Mr. Wray invited them to come again to his House either that night or next day but they refused and returned a scornful answer That night they sent me Papers as in the following relation and with the last sent also a Challenge by their Messenger to give them a meeting at a Town a Mile off next day which though an unreasonable Demand considering what freedom they had and might have where we were and with what scorn they had refused it and also that on the●r refusal of that Mr. Wray had proffered them that if they would appoint a place at such a distance next day we should m●et them and then they refused that also saying They knew not whether the Spirit might lead them that night and it is very probable they hoped we would not have come at their Challenge yet going that way we did call on them next day and then had a more full revelation of the spirit of Antichrist in them from J. N. than the day before who in answer to some such questions as fore-mentioned said That as Christ bore sins in that his own Body that dyed at Jerusalem so hee had born sins in his Body too and so that his first appearing to
whether we may look for that word in these dayes Isa 30. 9 What that word of faith is by which none needs to say Who shall ascend up to heaven to fetch Christ from above or who shall descend into the deep that is to bring up Christ again from the dead but that word is nigh thee in thy mouth and in thy heart which the Apostle preached to them that had it in their heart And whether the same word be not now in the hearts of the people though they mind it not Rom. 10. 10 What that voyce of Christ is which his sheep knows and how they come to know it from other voyces and all that hear it will not hear the voyce of strangers and hirelings and theeves and sorcerers but by the same voyce are brought to know Christ and follow him Joh. 10. And whether his sheep may expect and wait for the same voyce now and to know it from all other voyces which are false 11 What that way is in the wilderness which Isaiah spake of Isa 35. 8. which shall be called the way of holiness which the unclean shall not pass over but it shall be for wayfaring men and fools shall not erre therein in which way the Redeemed shall walk and the Ransomed of the Lord shall come to Sion And whether any may expect to find in these dayes such a way as are strangers and fools in the world 12 What that manifestation of the Spirit is which is given to every man to profit with all and whether there be any profit but by it and whether it be not of it self ●n infallible guide in all the way of God according to its manifestation Joh. 4. 23. 13 What and where that worship of God is truly in which God alone looks to be worshipped in And whether any can worship in spirit and in truth but those that are born of the Spirit And whether that he that is born of the Spirit needeth any other guide in the spiritual worship but that Spirit of which he is born according to his measure Joh. 1. 9. And whether such worships hath not been and are now differing from all other worships in the world and therefore hated by them as in all Ages 14 What and where that light is that inlightens every man that comes into the world which being come into the world is the condemnation of all those that are in darkness because of their evil deeds And whether this be not the condemnation of all the world that beleeve not in it but walk in darkness And whether there be any other condemnation but it seeing Christ said If I had not come ye had not had sin Joh. 3. Rom. 8. 15 What the Law of the Spirit of life is which made Paul free from the law of sin and death which had warred against the law of his mind and had formerly held him in captivity to the law of sin that was in his members And whether any in these dayes that are come to that warfare may look for that freedome by the Law of the Spirit of life And thus I have written these few lines the Lord revealing by his Spirit in me the great delusion sorcery and bewitched doctrine that you are under of these bewitching Simon Magus sorcerers which have put you upon a Christ crucified without you notwithstanding you and the rest are in your filthiness and first nature Whereas the Holy Ghost hath declared That they must be pure in heart that must see God Matth. 5. 8. And hath neglected to tell you of a washing of regeneration and new birth by the Holy Ghost in you T it 3 4 5 6. And hath brought another Gospel contrary to what Christ hath already preached and therefore he rendreth such accursed 1 Pet. 1. 12. And the Lord speaking by the mouth of Paul saying My little children of whom I travel again in birth untill Christ be formed in you Gal. 4. 19. And the Lord in mercy look upon you for my bowels yern towards you and pity you to see Prophets and Teachers creep in among you to draw you from your guide 2 Pet. 2. 1. Written from the Spirit of the Lord from one whom the people of this world calls Quaker known by the name of Thomas Biddal The Answer to the fore-said Queries by Tho. Moore ANd first to the Inscription or Dedication of them which runs thus To Alice Morden and the rest which are not yet given up to Delusion To all who deny the teaching of God to be sufficient c. In which words that which is imported in the plainest sense of them is That they look upon this as a testimony sufficient that men are not given up to Delusion viz. That they deny the teaching of God to be sufficient to guide them that own it to God without humane helps or at least that those that do so are not given up This appears their sense if the indicter of this understood himself but that rather I suppose hee did not however to this Inscription and Dedication we shall lay down this for Answer That to deny the absolute and alone sufficiency of the teaching of God without humane helps or mans teaching is a sin of a very high nature and an evidence of being in a great measure given up to delusion Jer. 8. 8 9 and 6. 10 11. and 23. 16 18 22 c. Isa 8. 16-20 1 Tim. 6. 3 4 5. 1 Joh. 2. 19. 20-24-26 27. and Chap. 4 6. That therefore we may know who they are that do so that we may beware of them and of all steps leading to this evill Let us consider First What Gods eaching is Secondly Where and how himself doth preach or hold it forth unto men Thirdly How or wherein men may be said to deny the alone sufficiency thereof First What Gods teaching is as to the matter of it There is in it 1 Something summary and fundamental of all the rest by which primely it may be known and distinguished 2 Some things contained in springing out of and built upon or arising from those things that are main and fundamental in it 1 Those things main and fundamental in Gods teaching are concerning Jesus Christ before promised and witnessed and in his undertaking vertuous now manifested as delivered to death for our offences according to the Scriptures therein bearing our sins in his own body to the Tree not bearing them or leaving them to be born in that sense in our souls or bodies and raised again from the dead for our justification according to the Scriptures And so concerning his own the Fathers love and goodness to man-ward the glory of which is now manifested in the face of Christ even in those works done in and by his first personal Appearance and the acceptance and vertue of them with the Father for us and the end of them to bee fully revealed and accomplished in his second personal and glorious appearance according as declared to us in