Sacerdotio Ambr. l. 2. de poenit cap. 2. vvhich are specified in these three articles follovvinge The one vvhich is both in bodie and soule vvhich is Lyfe aeternall the nexte is of the bodie only vvhich is The Resurrection of the fleshe And the thirde is of the soule alone vvhich is The remission of sinnes vvhich vve receaue in the Sacraments of the holy Church and especially in baptisme and penaunce vvhich lyke heauenly medicines doe cure our spirituall maladies that is our sinnes And seinge that there can be no greater good then to be in Gods grace because no thinge caÌ„ hurte him vvhome God defendeth soe there can be no greater mischiefe in this vvorlde then to bee in the state of sinne vvhich maketh a man Gods enemie For vvho can defende him vvith vvhom God is angrie VVhat greater good then can any man receiue then the remission of his sinnes VVhich giueth lyfe to the soule and is only to bee had in Christes Catholique Church M. The Resurrection of the fleshe VVhat is then vnderstoode by the Resurrection of the fleshe vvhich is the eleeuenthe article D. This is that other benefitte oâ— the holye Church For all thoughe all meÌ„ as vvell bad as Good shall returne to they re naturalâ— lyfe againe ye at shall the lyfe oâ— the vvicked be rather a continuall death then true lyfe because they ryse to perpetuall torments Soe as the true Resurrection vvhich is to desireable lyfe shal be only of the just vvhich shal be founde vvith out sinne M. I vvolde faine Knovve of you vvhether the same bodies shall ryse againe or other lyke them D. There is no doubte but the same for other vvise it should be no true Resurrection vvhich is vnderstood vvhen the same bodie riseth vvhich died and fell before Besides other vvise hovv should the bodie bee partaker of the glorie or punnishmente of the soule in revvarde of the Good vvorkes vvhich they in companie vvrought together And seinge God is almighty as vvee professe in the beginninge of the Creede vvee neede not vvonder if he bringe to effecte that vvhich to vs seemeth vnpossible As in deede naturally it is vvhen a bodie is once burnt for example and brought to duste or ashes to rayse it to lyfe again M. I vvoulde bee gladde you should also tell me in vvhat age or stature vve shall rise because vve dye in diuers some oulde some youÌ„ge some great some litle c D. All shall rise not only in the same sexe in the vvhich they vveare in this vvorlde but in the same age stature vvhich they should haue had at the terme of thirtie three yeares Aug. de tiuit dei libr. 22. c. 15. 20. 17. at the vvhich our Sauiour him selfe did rise froÌ„ death And if any of the electe had been blinde lame a dvvarfe or vvith any other deformity in this lyfe yeat shall he rise faire sounde vvhole of coÌ„petente and sufficieÌ„t stature For the vvorkes of God are perfect and therfore vvil correcte the erroures and defectes of nature M. Hovv doe you interprete the tvvelfte article vvhich is of Lyfe euerlastinge Lyfe Euerlastinge D. It signifieth a full and perfecte felicitie of bodie soule vvhich is the greatest and last good vvhich vve gaine by beinge in Gods Church comprehendinge in it in respecte of the soule that the vnderstandinge shal be full of vvisdome the vvill full of bountie and charitie so as it can not sinne at all in respecte of the bodie it shall haue health vvith immortality and impassibilitie so as no thinge can hurt it it shall haue beautie vvith cleernesse so as it shall shine like the sunne Luc. 20. Apocal 5. 20. Aug. de ciuit dei libr. 20. c. vlt. it shall haue agilitie or nimblenesse ioyned vvith such subtilitie as in one moment it shal be able to moue from the farthest part of the vvorlde to the other and from heauen to earth so as no bodie caÌ„ hinder the passage it shall haue that strength and force that vvithout any bodylye sustenaunce it shall serue the spirite in all thinges fearinge nothinge They re riches shal be to neede nothinge they re honoure to bee Gods children Kinges and spirituall priestes for euer and aequall to Angels They re povvre shal be to doe vvhat they vvill them selues theyr delighte vnspeakable they re joye endlesse they re peace aeternall M. And shall all men haue all these thinges in aequall degree D. No for sooth But euery one shall haue his glorie and joy in proportion to his merittes yea vvith out enuye or discontentmente of any Euen as the starres thoughe all be in the firmament yeat some are greater then others or as a father vvhich should make for manie chilldren of diuers grovvth or stature garments of cloth of gould though there is no doubte but the greater vvould haue more cloth then the little one yeat should the least be moste contente vvith that garment vvhich vvould best fitte him although it vvere lesse in quantitie then the rest M. You haue ansvveared me like a devine And by this you may learne the opposite miseries of the damned that not onelie shall be depriued of all this happinesse and glorie but shal be oppressed also vvith the contrary afflictions tormentes and perpetuall calamities amongest the vvhich are especially a most teadious enuaye of the elects felicitie and the bitter vvorme of conscience euer gnavvinge vvithout reste the just guerdon of mortall sinne from vvhich God of his mercie defende vs. Amen The Pater noster ⧠Of the Pater Noster ⧠CHAP. IIII. M. VVELL then say me the Pater noster D. Our father vvhich art in heauen c. Mat. 6. Luc. 11. Aug. Enchirid cap. 14 Ep. 121. c. 11. serm 182 de â—pe Tertul. l. de orat Cypr serm 6. de oratione dominica Ambro. l. 5. de Sacrament c. 4. Innoc 3. lib 4. demystiis missae cap. 17. M. VVho made this prayer D. Our lord Iesus Christ vvho first saide it vvith his sacred mouth M. To vvhat ende did he teach it his disciples D. To teach them and all those that should follovv theyr doctrine as ofte as they vvould pray in vvhat manner they may lyfte vp they re soules and hartes vnto God to craue his helpe grace mercy M VVhy vvhere is God D. In heauen in earth and in all places hovv be it in heauen especially he manifesteth him selfe vnto his electe in glorie vvhere vpoÌ„ it is sayde Our father vvhich are in heauen M. But vvhy doe you call him father rather then lord or God D. Because therby vve are remembred of the greate loue he beareth vs and like vvise the loue vve ought to beare one tovvardes an other beinge all brethren as vve are and children of so good a father And therefore it is sayde Oure father and not my father or the father only And for the same cause all Catholicks also vse vvheÌ„ they speake of our Sauiour
to say Our lorde and not the lorde as some nouellers are accustomed to speake M. You haue ansvvered right novv tell me vvhat is comprised in the rest of this prayer D. Seauen petitions vvherin vve aske the principall thinges that vvee can aske of God M. VVhich be those D. First the honoure and glorie of God in the first peticion vvhich is Hallovved bee thy name and is as much to say as that his holy name may be throughout the vvhole vvorlde as vvell in harte as mouthe of men confessed Knovvne adored praised and blessed as it ought to bee And because this caÌ„ not be done vvith out his helpe and grace therefore vve aske it of him and that in the first and principall place of this prayer M. And vvhat is meante by the seconde vvhich is Thy Kingdome come D. The meaninge is that as in the first vve asked for the glorie of God vvhich is the end of our creation so in this vve craue for that vvhich vve ought most to esteeme nexte to Gods glorie that is our aeternall saluation vvhich is finallie to be accomplished in his euerlastinge Kingdome of heauen vvhere vve doe expecte for the quiet peaceable and secure possession of all true and perfecte felicity M. Lett vs passe vnto the thirde petition And tell me vvhat is signified by these vvordes Thy vvill be done in earth as it is in heaven D. VVee aske in these vvordes grace to keepe vvell the lavv of God And it vvas conuenient that after the seconde petition of aeternall blisse should follovv the requeste of that meanes vvhich is the principall and most necessarie to attaine to the same vvhich meanes is the obseruance of all his commaundementes because in them his vvill is made Knovvne vnto vs. And it is added as vvell In earth as in heaueÌ„ because vvee should procure to obey God and keepe his commaundementes vvith the same perfectioÌ„ promptnesse and vvillingnesse vvherevvithe the Angels obey him in heauen M. Lett vs come to the fourth petition hovv doe you interprete these vvordes Giue vs this day our daylie bread D. VVe aske in this petition principally our spirituall bread vvhich is the sustenaunce of the soule especially the blessed Sacramente of the alter the vvorde of God prayer and euerie other spirituall helpe of grace vvhich is the lyfe of the soule Secondly vvee aske for our corporall bread by the vvhich is vnderstood all that is necessarie for the mantenaunce of our bodylye lyfe vvhereby vve desire that God vvill helpe and blesse our possessions landes and laboures to the ende vvee may vvithout stealinge fraude or other vniustice gaine our liuinge honestlie and vvhith peace M. And vvhy is it sayde daylie D. Because vvee ought to content our selues vvith Gods ordinarie allovvaunce as vvell for the spirite as the bodie vvithout desire of curious and superfluous things especially remembringe that vvee are pilgrimes and straungers in this lyfe M. VVhat doe vve aske in the fifte petition forgyue vs oure debtes as vve forgyue those that be debters vnto vs. D. VVee aske perdon of our sinnes at Gods handes and as it vveare oblige our selues to forgyue all those that offende vs Christ our maister giuinge vs hereby to vnderstande that vve muste looke that God vvill deale vvith vs in the same maner as vve deale vvith others M. Declare me novv the sixte petition And leade vs not in to tentation D. VVee aske Gods assistance in those combates vvhich vndoubtedly all those that serue God must passe vvith our common enemie the deuill of vvhome vve can haue no victorie excepte God helpe vs. But one goodly documente vee learne in these vvordes vvhich is that the deuill not onely is not able to ouercome vs but not so muche as to tempte vs excepte God doe permitte him VVhich permission is only that vvhich is meant by these vvordes And leade vs not in to tentation M. There remaineth the seauenthe and last petition But deliuer vs from all euill Of vvhat euill doth he speake in this petition D. As he spake in the fifte of euills paste and in the sixte of euills to come that is of the daungers of tentation so heere vve praye to be deliuered from all euills present vvhether it be of prosperitie or adversitie vvhether of bodie or of soule and that in generall not in particular As from pouertie sicknesse persecution and the like Because often times that vvhich seemeth to vs vvoulde be good for vs God seeth that it vvoulde hurte vs and contrarie vvise that vvhich seemeth vnto vs some tymes to bee euill God seeth vvoulde doe vs good and therefore vvee requeste that he vvill deliuer vs from all that vvhich he seeth vvoulde be baâ— for vs. VVhereby allso appeareth the excellencie of this prayer vvhich compriseth in so fevv vvordes all that possibl â—ie vvee can craue at Gods handes M. You make often mention of euill and of our enemies I pray you tell me vvho are they and vvhich is the greatest of them D. Our enemies are the flesh the vvorlde and the deuill and of all euills sinne is the greatest Yea vvorse and more abhominable then the deuill him selfe vvho by sinne onely of a beavvtifull Angell became that he novv is an ougly vvretched deuill and malignant Sathan M. And vvhat meaneth this vvorde Amen D. It is an Hebrevv vvorde and signifieth as much as so be it or I desire it may bee so ⧠Of the Aue Marie The Aue Marie Vide Lucae 1. CoÌ„c Ephes caÌ„ 13. d. Hieron coÌ„tra Heluidi Ambr. l. 2. de vriginibus super Luc. Ep. 81. Bern. bom 2. super missus est Augus de natura grat c. 36. ser de assuÌ„ pt Iren. l. 3. c. 31. 33. l. 5. c. 19. Chrysost Basil IacobuÌ„ in liturgiis Niceph hist eccles l. 1. c. 2. 8. lib. 14. c. 2 46. ⧠CHAP. VI. M. HITHERTO You haue ansvveared very vvell novv tell me doe you make prayer to none els but to God onely D. Yeas that vvee doe to all the saintes to the Angels of heauen and especially euery one to his Angell guarde and aboue all next vnder God to our blessed Ladie the mother of God the VirgeÌ„ Marie Virgen as vvell before and after as in the birth of our Sauioure VVho beinge exalted aboue all creatures as reason is and taken in to glorie both bodie and soule is the most vvorthy aduocate for sinners by vvay of prayer and intercession M. That seemeth straunge to giue and attribute the same title vnto her vvhich the Scriptures giue vnto our Sauiour For he is our Aduocate D. Sir vve putt greate difference notvvithstandinge for our blessed Ladie is our aduocate by vvay of prayer and intercessioÌ„ but Christ by vvay of merite and justice for our saluation And therefore as the Church neuer saith to him Ora pro nobis because he is not onely man but God allso so no Catholique vseth to pray vnto her vvith Miserere nobis vvhich is
foote hye doth remoue froÌ„ that litle lenghth it had before but continueth in the place it first vvas and yeat in grovvinge of the bodye occupieth those other foure or fiue foote more of space then the bodye had in his childehood the soule remaininge vvithout grovvth or greatnes in it selfe as it is manifeste in all spirituall substance M. And vvhy is this so pretious and admirable a Sacramente Kepte allvvayes in the pix vppon the altare D. For the comforte of all true Christians The B. Sacramente in the pix and more commoditie of the sicke vvhen they shoulde receaue they re Viaticum and especiallye to helpe oure deuotion tovvardes his bitter passioÌ„ vvherof he vvilled vs to haue perpetuall memorie vvhich by this meanes is moste conuenientelie performed his presence beinge the moste effectuall pledge of his loue tovvardes vs both then and euer vvith vvhich inteÌ„tion it is not onlye so kepte in the pix or sanctuarie but often tymes allso caried in procession to the singulare ioy and comforte of all true Catholickes no other vvise then in the oulde testamente vvas the arcke of propitiation as he did not onlye gyue the people of Israel Manna to eate as novv his hodye to communicate but vvilled them allso to keepe a vessell full of the same Exod. 16. in remembraunce of all his benefittes tovvardes them in they re deliuerie from Aegypte M. But vvhat can you aunsvveare to the aduersarie vvhich is vvonte so impudentelie to calumniate this pointe as for example if the B. Sacramente vvhile it is in the pix shoulde be eaten vvith vvormes or caried avvaye vvith a mouse or bitten of a dogge and the like is it not a greate absurditie that he vvhich sitteth on the righte hand of his father shoulde be buryed in the bellye of a beaste or keepte in a box and the like indignities D. Sir this is but a litle mudde vvhich these base minded fishermen sturre Steph Gardiner to entangle ignoraunte soules and of some is vvorthelie called the diuells sophistrie for if vve doe reflecte and remember vvhat CHRISTE for oure sake suffered in his passion and vppon the Crosse beinge so vvhipte and buffeted bespetted yea cruellye and despightefully abused as he vvas his moste pretious bloude beinge in aboundance povvred vppon the grounde and trodden vnder the feet of those accursed Ievves and Gentiles vvhich put him to death and vvho can say but this vvas vvorse then if a dogge shoulde haue come by chaunce and licked it Yea I putte the case that some rauen or crovv had seased vppon him after his soule vvas departed or the like if I say vve consider vvhat he then suffered for vs beinge indeed passible and subjecte to the offence of his flesh and bodye vve shall easilie see that all the indignities he can novv suffer beinge immortall and impassible as he hath been euer since his resurrection are nothinge indeed at all but illusions of heretiques and enemies of this B. Sacramente to auerte the mindes of the simple and ignorante from the belief and deuotion to it I vvoulde fayne knovv if there can be any vvorse bellye breste or mouthe theÌ„ that of Iudas Iscariote or can there be any creature more odious lothsome and detestable then the Deuill and yeat the Gospell telleth vs that to the one he gaue him selfe in this Sacramente vvheÌ„ he knevv his trayterous intentions Mat. 42.26 Mar. 1. 14 Luc. 4. 22. yea aftervvardes admitted him to Kisse his venerable face and to the other he permitted him selfe to be visiblye and corporallye caryed in his ouglye pavves from one place to another euen to the pinnacle of the temple and shall vve feare novv leaste his maiestye be impayred vvhen onely the accidentes of the hoste be perished vnder vvhich he is impassiblye placed it is to cleere that allbeit a dogge or mouse or anye other beaste may defile or abuse this garmente or canopie of his vnder vvhich he inuisiblye sitteth yeat his person bodie or bloude cannot be annoyed by anye creature those that haue Christian affection by these inconuenieÌ„ces vvhich in this vale of miserie that moste adoreable Sacramente sustaineth make an infallible argumente of Christes vnspeakeable loue tovvardes vs that for oure sakes vvoulde put him selfe into suche contingence this in my conceyte may serue for this objection M. You haue reason but tell me seiâ—ge vve oughte so highelie to esteeme this SacrameÌ„te vvhat preparation may vve beste make to receaue it vvorthylie D. There are three thinges required the firste that a man goe to confession before and procure to be in Gods grace vvhen he goeth to coÌ„municate for one of the causes vvhy it is gyueÌ„ in the forme of bread is to signifie hovv this Sacramente is to be gyueÌ„ to the liuinge not to the dead to nourishe the grace of God to encrease it in vs. The seconde is that vve come fastinge to it alltogeather that is not hauinge eateÌ„ any thinge at all or droncken at leaste froÌ„ midnighte before The thirde is that vve vnderstande vvell vvhat vve doe and that vve come vvith deuotion to so great a mysterie and therfore this Sacramente is not gyuen to infantes or fooles or any person that hath not the vse of reason and allbeit the Churche commaunde Cap. Omnis vtriusque de panit remissio as hath been spoken to receaue at leaste once a yeare in the Pasque or feaste of Easter yeat is it holesome and profitable to doe it more often accordinge as eache one 's Confessarius shall directe him M VVe haue sayde enoughe of this Sacramente and I vvoulde aske you another questioÌ„ aboute the Sacramente of penaunce or confession vvhich hitherto you haue not aunsvveared and firste hovv can it seem reasonable that a prieste vvhich him selfe liueth yll and is vicious as some tymes they are shoulde be able to gyue absolution from sinnes vvhich is a povvre so supreme and caelestiall and vvhich the Aungells them selues cannot doe D. This hath the same difficultie in the Sacramentes of oure aduersaries vvho notvvithstandinge doubte not but they haue they re effecte allbeit they knovv vvell that the vvorste prieste of the papistes is ordinarilye of better lyfe then the beste protestaunte ministers but hovvsoeuer in this vve need say no more then that vvhich Saint Austen aunsvveared to the like objection that is D. Aug. lib. 2. contra litt Pâ—tiliam that Christe allbeit he knevv the Pharisaees to be hypocrites yeat he vvoulde not derogate from they re povvre and authoritie of Moyses chayre vvherin they sate and did discharge thoughe vvith euill lyfe that priestelie function M. And doth it not seeme vnto you a melancholicke matter to haue suche sollicitude and liue vvith suche continuall care of a mans soule and after all to putte him selfe at the feete of a sinfull maÌ„ as vvell as him selfe and there to throvv his ovvn honoure in the duste and as it vvere to souÌ„de againste him selfe a trumpe of infamie â—
father and the children are all one in the title of inheritance and as the churches body continued after saint Peter so her head must needes continue also on earth M. Saint Peter at Rome 1. Petr. 5. Irinae lib. 3. c. 3. Tert. de praescri et in Scor. Clem Alex. 7 Strom Euseb Ecclesiast his lib. 2. c. 14. 15. Hieron de Scriptor Eccles Cypr. lib. 1. Ep. 3. Aug. coÌ„tra Petilia l. 1. c. 51. et Ep. 91. 93. 164 Amb. ser 66. Nicephor lib. 2. c. 36. You make no doubt then that saint Peter vvas the first Bishops or poPe of Rome D. None at all sir For as much as it vveare madnes to call it in question beinge so certaine a matter and so receiued amongest all Christians as any other article of our faith as all histories and auncient and moderne vvriters do testifie and to this day ther remaine manifest arguments of the same in Rome M. VVhy have you any relique of his in that citie D. VVe have both his and saint Paules vvhole bodies and their heades ar yeat to be seene vvher are extant the most sumptuous and auncient teÌ„ples in the vvorld built ouer them for their memories saint Paule beinge beheaded by the svvord the same day that saint Peter vvas crucified vnder the vvicKed Emperour Nero after that he had been Bishope tvventie and fiue yeares of that cittie M. You haue reason but lett vs returne to our first purpose of the Creed And first tell me 〈◊〉 other 〈◊〉 vvhen he been 〈…〉 hovv many articles there bee of yt D. Ther be tvvelue vvhearof the first belongeth to the father the six follovvinge to the sonne and the last fiue to the holy ghoast vvhich are the three persons of the blessed Trinitye M. VVhat is the mystery of the holy Trinitye D. Truly sir that is to deepe a question for me to expounde But it is sufficient The Blessed Trinitye for me to beleeue that vvhich the Churche doth teach vvhich is that the blessed Trinitye is three persons one God only M. Yt is vvell ansvvered but do you Knovve no similitude by the vvhich you may in some manneâ— declare it D. Yes for sooth for as our soule beinge but on alone yet hath iâ— three povvers to vvitâ— vnderstandinge memorie and vvill vvhich povvers are all one things vvith the soule euen so the persons of the father of the sonne and of the holy ghoast are all three one God M. The similitude is good but let vs speake a vvorde or tvvo 〈◊〉 euerie article by it selfe And first vvhat doe you professe by the first article D. I professe and beleeue that theâ— is a God although vve doe noâ— see him vvith our corporall eies and that this God is one only and therfore it is sayde beleeue in God and not in Gods vvho filleth ruleth gouerneth seeth and knovveth all thinges euen the most secret thoughtes of mans hart And therfore vvorthely called Almightie and Maker of heauen and earth because in deede he hath created of nothinge them both and all creatures that in them are conteyned and can also if he list reduce them to nothinge Yea if he did not coÌ„tinually sustain and vphold theÌ„ they vvould returne to nothinge of vvhich they vvere made And therfore the conseruation gouerment order and beinge of these creatures do inferr of necessity the infinite povver vvisdome goodnesse of almighty god vvithout vvhoÌ„ no creature could haue had beginniÌ„ge this the very heathens Aristotle and others of good vnderstaÌ„ding did coÌ„preheÌ„d M. And vvhat is meant by the secoÌ„d article And in Iesus Christe his onely sonne oure Lorde D. It is geuen vs to vnderstand that our Sauiour Iesus Christ is the true and onley sonne of God and to him coaequall and coaeternall the vvhich is called our lorde first because he hath joyntelye vvith his father created vs and so remaineth our lord and maister as much as his father and furthermore for that vvith his laboures and passioÌ„ he hath bought vs from the bondage of the deuill M. But tell me the meaninge of the thirde article hovv is it saide that he vvas Borne of the Virgen Marie The mystery of the IncarnatioÌ„ Isai 9. Mat. 1 Ioan. 1. Luc. 1 Rom. 81. Cor. 6.1 Petri. 6. and conceiued of the holy ghoast D. Because this sonne of God and seconde person of the holy Trinitie by the vvorKe and vertue of t e holy ghoast in the vvombe of the Virgen Marie our blessed Ladie tooKe and vnited to the person of his diuinitie our humaine nature that is a true bodie and soule eueÌ„ as ours is and so remayninge still God as he vvas became also by his incarnation true Man So that as in his deuine generation he had no father but taKinge of her the vvhole substance of his bodye proceeded from her in his birth vvith out detrimente of her virginity even as in his resurrection he came foorth of the sepulchre vvith out openinge the seale and closure therof M. And vvhat is conteyned in the fourth article He suffered vnder Pontius Pilate vvas crucified dead and buried D. The most profitable mystery of our RedeÌ„ption for the greatnesse of the offence and iniurie done vnto Gods maiestie required a satisfaction of infinite valure and dignitie vvhich none beinge able but God to performe Christ beinge true God and man did by his death on the Crosse most fullie accomplish vvypinge avvay oure sinnes vvith his pretious bloode passion and giuinge vs vvithall therein a most liuely paterne example of his vertue especially of his patiâ—nce his humility his obedience and his exceedinge charity M. If Christ hath satisfied his father for the sinnes of all meÌ„ hovv coÌ„meth it to passe that so manie are damned that vve haue so much neede to doe penance for our sinnes vvas not the passion of Christ sufficient D. Yes but as Christ hath satisfied for all sinners so it is necessary to applie this satisfaction in particular to euerie one that desireth to bee partaker of so great a benifite And this is doen by faith vvith vse of the SacrameÌ„ts vvith good vvorkes and particularly vvith penaÌ„ce and therfore althoughe Christ hath suffered and satisfied for vs vve must notvvithstanding if vvee vvill not be daÌ„ned apply by penaÌ„ce the same to vs. M. I like your aunsvver vvell but tell me haue you neuer hearde any example that may giue light to this doctrine D. No truly sir but I vvolud be glad to learne it M. VVhy then take this example If ther vvere one Man that for Charitye vvould take such paynes laboure as by his indeuours he might gaine monye sufficient to pay all the debts of this citty and should put it all in one treasure house to the ende it might be geuen to all those that should briÌ„ge a vvritte or bill of receit froÌ„ him This Man no doubt on his parte might be truly said to haue satisfied for all and yet manie might remaine skill indebted
because they vvould not eyther for pride or for slouth or some such like cause goe to aske his vvitte and carie it the treasure house to receaue the mony M. Recite vnto me novv the fifte Article D. He descended into hell and the third daye rose againe from the dead M. I praye you tell me hovv it iâ— saide that Christ rose the thirde day beinge buried on fryday aâ— night and rising on sunday before daye D. Sir it is sufficient to verifie this speache that he vvas in his graue some part of these dayes albeit if you recken the hovvers vvhich he there abode and vveâ—re as many as he liued yeares in this vvorlde you shall finde thâ— sufficient to make vp three vvhâ—le dayes of allmost tvvelue hovvers a peece M. But tell me vvhen Christ dyed vpon the Crosse as his soule de parted from his body did his diuinitie also forsake the same D. No for sooth for the person of his Godhead vvas alvvays vnited still both to the bodie and soule although they vveare seperated the one from the other for a tyme. M. And vvhether vvent his soule vvhen it departed from his body vpon the Crosse D. Yt descended into hell M. VVhich hell For in hell there be many places D. Yt is true Limbus Patrum Vide Eccl. 24. Psal 15. Osse 13 Zac. 9. Collos 2. act 2.1 Pet. 3. there be fovver places one of the damned an other of Purgatory a thirde of children that die vvithout baptisme and the fourth vvhich vvas called Abrahams bosome and novv is coÌ„monly termed Limbus Patrum because all the saintes and holy Patriarches of the ould testament remained there vntill Christes passioÌ„ Christs descensioÌ„ in to hell Zach. 9. Eccli 24.1 Petr. 3. Act. 2. Irin l. 5. Iustini Dialog cum Tryphone Aug. Ep. 99. 57 de fide ad Petr. c. 2. Ambros lib. 3. de fide c. 3. Orig. m. Ep. Rom. c. 5. Basil in Ps 48. Ruff. in Symbolo Hieron in Ep. ad Ephesios c. 4. in c. 9. Zachar in c. 2. Ionae vvhen thither he descended and deliuered them M. So that you make noe accompte of those that interprete hell for the graue or sepulcher vvhich interpretation indeede is erroneous friuolous and contrary to all the authority of Gods church Doctors of the same but vvhat thinke you of those Caluinists for they doe not all agree vvhich saye that Christ vpon the Crosse and before he died suffered the paines of hell and that this vvas necessary for our Redemption D. No doubt but this is a more grosse and damnable opinion then the other and vvel vvorthy of the paines of hell vvhosoeuer doth teache or beleeue it and therfore no vvonder if Caluins ovvne schollers forsake hiÌ„ in this point M. VVhy vvhat reason haue you against them D. First because this opinion diminisheth the vvorthinesse of Christs Passion as though it vveare not sufficient vnlesse his soule despair it as Caluine saith vvheras in truth one drop of his sacred blood had beene most abundant for the infinite vvorthinesse of his diuine person that offered him selfe in sacrifice for vs. Secondly for that desperatioÌ„ beinge the greatest sinne that can be yea one of the sinnes against the holy ghoast if Christ had despaired as Caluine blaspheameth nether should saint Paule haue truly excepted Christ from sinne VVhich did no sinne neyther vvas guyle fund in his mouth nor the Scripture say Qui peccatum non fecit nec inuentus est in ore eius dolus Thirdly because all the damned are hated of God vvhich to say of ovr Sauiour vve are impossible of vvhome God the father saith this is my beloued sonne in vvhome I am vvell pleased be sides many other reasons vvhich are not necessary for so manyfest an heretical blasphemye M. And vvente none vnto heauen before Christ D. None sir because he first opened the gate of his fathers Kingdome and vvas the first Man that tooke possession therof M. Yt vvas good reason but tell me vvhat is Purgatory D. Purgatory Vid. 1. ad Cor. ex Orig. hom 12 13. in Iere. hom 6. in ExoduÌ„ Aug. de fide oper c. 16. in Ps 37. 8â— in lib. 21. de ciuit c. 26. Gre. 4. Dialo c. 39. Bed in c. 3. Lucae Mat. 12. Cyp. lib. 4. Ep. 2.2 Machab. 12. Diony Eccles Hierarch c. 7. Chrysost hom 41. in 1. ad Cor. c. 3. hom 3. ad Phil. Epif. coÌ„tra haer hearesâ— 75. Damas or pro de functis Greg. in Ps 37. CoÌ„c Carthag 4. c. 79. 95. To let 11. c. 12. BrachareÌ„se 3. c. â—4 The Popeâ— pardoÌ„s or indulgeÌ„ces Vide conc Ancyr c. 2. 5. Neocesarien c. 3. NicenuÌ„ 1. can 11. Chalcedon act 1. 13. LaodiceÌ„se Cabilon Rhemen Lateran sub Inno. 3. c. 3. 62. Lateran sub Leone 10. Sess 9. et 12. Trid. Sess 25 Innoc. 1. Ep. c. 7. Gregor 1. instit station Sergiê° ante aÌ„nos 600 in lapide mar morco Romae Gregor 7. aÌ„te annos 600. ep 6.9.23.56 58. Vrban 2. conc ClaramoÌ„tano Paschasius 2. concil Lateran Alexan 3. c. Vide etiaÌ„ Bellarminum toto libro de Indulgentiis Purgatory is a place of torment vvheare the soules of those that departe in the loue and grace of God and haue not made sufficient satisfaction for theyr sinnes by penaunce are purged before they passe in to glory as the holy Scriptures and fathers doe teach and by reason is conuinced M. And is it lavvfull to pray for these soules D. Yea it is both lavvfull and charitable M. VVhat prayers or suffrages are most effectuall to helpe them D. Aboue all the holy sacrifice of the masse but the Popes perdons and other prayers good vvorkes of trevve Christians are also beneficiall and profitable vnto them M. VVhy hath the Pope any povver ouer the deade also D. The Pope beinge Christes chiefe vicar vpon earth hath authority by vertue of his office to applie and dispense the treasures of Christ and his Church vvhose passion and other his saintes and martyrs merites he can applye to mitigate their paines clense them from sinne and prepare theÌ„ for glory M. VVhy is not the PassioÌ„ of Christ sufficient of it selfe but that you vvill put in the merites of saintes and martyres D. Yes it is not only sufficient but also abundant yet if Christ vvill haue his saintes partakers of his glory in this vvorld as vvell as in heauen vvho can gaine saie it euen as a Kinge vvhich goeth to the vvarre and is sufficiently furnished of munition monye may if he vvill accept of any his subiects offerings and by spending their goodes togeather vvith his ovvne make them partakers of his Victorie and glory M. It is vvell saide but vvhat meaneth it vvheÌ„ it is saide an huÌ„dred or a thovvsand yeares of pardon or indulgence can any man be bounde to so longe penaunce D. No truly in this shortnes of lyfe that vve haue but by
reason that in the primitiue Church for euery mortall sinne men vvere vvonte to doe penance many yeares and that novv deuotion and charity is vvaxen so cold that one man vvill sometimes coÌ„mitt tvveÌ„ty or forty mortall sinnes in one yeare and by that accompte de serue aÌ„ 100. sometimes a 1000. yeares of penaunce excepte penances vveare shortened and pardons enlarged in this fraylty of man it vvould be harde to giue God and the Church satisfaction M. Truly so it is and more is the pitty but hereby vve see hovv iustly vvee call the Church our mother and the Pope our father seeinge they deale so gently vvith vs. But lett vs goe forvvard vvith the Creede and tell me the meaninge of the sixt Article D. The sixt article is He ascended in to heauen and sitteth on the right hand of God the father almightie VVhich ascensioÌ„ beinge full fortie dayes after his Resurrection doth so assure vs of the verity of all the mysteryes of his lyfe and passion as there can be no further doubt of them and this as the conclusion of the reste doth manifestly assure vs of the greate glorie and majestie vvhich novv he retaineth in heauen M. And vvhat meaneth it to say that Christ after his ascension sitteth on the right hand of God the father hath God the father any right hand D. No sir for he is a spirite and hath no bodie but vvhen vve say he sitteth on the right hand the meaninge is that Christ in that be is God hath the same glorie honor povver vvith his father not inferior nor superior but equall and in that he is man God the father hath giuen him more glorie honor and povver then to all the Angels and saintes in heauen M. Let vs come to the seauenth article vvhich is From thence he shall come to iudge the quicke the dead Doe you Knovve hovv this iudgment shal be D. Yea Sir for it shal be as saint Paule sayeth in greate terrour and majestye in the Voice and trumpet of an Angell at vvhat tyme the vvhole vvorld shal be destroyed vvhith fire as it vvas vvith vvater in the deluge vvhich day no man shall Knovv hovv neare or farre it is of the dead shall rise and those that are then liuinge shall presently die and sodainly rise againe to the ende they may haue their due to death At vvhich tyme shal cease dayes and nightes mariadge and merchandise and all these other things vvhich vve novv see vsed in this vvorlde M. To vvhat purpose then shall those be iudged vvhich haue alreadie in the hovvre of their death receiued their final sentence and verdicte D. For diuers causes and first because the bodie vvith the soule shall haue his iudgment of paine and glorie euerlastinge vvhich before it had not Secondly for the glorie of Christes saintes vvhich as they vveare in this vvorld persecuted and euell intreated so there they shal be in the sight of the vvhole vvorld by God glorified Thirdly for the glorie of Christe because hauing been vnjustly coÌ„demned of many neither Knovvne not honoured as vvas conuenient so is it good reason that there should come a day vvherin the vvhole vvorld eyther by loue or force should both Knovve him and honour him as their Kinge lord and soueraigne Fourthelie for the confusion of the proude enemies of God Lastly for the glorie of God him selfe against all Atheistes and incredulous persons vvho measuringe Gods prouideÌ„ce by their ovvne carnall desires because they see often tymes the just to be afflicted and the vvicked to lyue in prosperitie thinke that God doth not vvell gouerne this vvorld But then they shall see that all this hath been by Gods highe vvisedome and goodnesse vvherby he shall there as justly condemne the vvicked for their sinnes as he doth here in this lyfe revvarde their slender good vvorkes vvith temporall coÌ„modities As contraryvvise his servantes in this lyfe be punished for small offences to enriche them in the nexte for their good vvorkes vvhith an infinite treasure of glorie M. VVhat is comprised in the eyght article I beleeue in the holy ghoaste D. That the holy ghoast the thirde person of the holie Trinitye is the same God of aequall povver vvhith the father and the sonne the other tvvo persons of the blessed Trinitye And he is called the holy ghoast or spirite because all other spirites vvhether of men or Angels though neuer so holy haue of him receaued all their sanctification to vvhose goodnes are also attributed all other giftes and graces of God vvhich are reparted in the vvhole Catholique Churche M. VVhat meaneth it that the holy ghoast is painted in the forme of a doue and some times in the forme of fier and clouen tongues D. Not because the holy ghoast hath any corporall forme or shape of him selfe but to represente vnto vs in the doue the holy simplicitie puritie and zeale of those soules vvhich he replenisheth And in the fiery tongues is signified the comminge dovvne of the holy ghoast ten dayes after Christes Ascension vpon his Apostles and disciples vvhome he then filled vvhith all Kinde of Knovvledge vvhich is signified by the light of that fier vvith charitie vvhich is signified by the burninge flames of the same and thirdly vvith eloquence vvhich is signified by the fierie tongues all vvhich vvere necessarie for the publishing and propagation of his gospell M. Novv then declare vnto me the ninth article I beleeue the holy Catholique Church the communion of saintes Hovv doe you beleeue the holy Catholique Church and hovv shall vve be able to distinguishe it froÌ„ all other synagogues and heretical congregations D. I beleeue the Catholique Church as our deare louinge mother vvhich therfore vvill neuer deceive vs and credite her as Christes true spouse vvhich therfore can not erre for the vvhich also saint Paule calleth her the piller and firmament or foundatioÌ„ of truth and to vvhome our Sauiour ascendinge in to heauen promised the holy ghoast to remaine vvith her and to instruct and teache her all truth M. And vvhat signes can you giue me vvhearby I may Knovve vvhich is the Catholique Church D. Those vvhich this holy Creede and the Creede of the counsell of Nice doth put vvhich are infallible and sufficient M. VVhich are those D. These foure Vnam Sanctam The signes of the â—â—â—e Church Catholicam Apostolicom That is to say in English One Holy Catholique and Apostolick To the vvhich vve may adde the fifte Romanam That is the Romaine M. VVhy may not the hereticKes say the same of theyr Church also D. No for they first are not one The first signe One See Vinc. â—yrinens Tertull. Epiphan Philastr Augus Cypr. contra haereses Ephe. 4. versi 5. because they are deuided into many sects and some are Lutherans some Caluinists some Puritans some Protestantes others of the familie of loue and so forth and as Bozius de sig Eccl. recordeth in these fevve yeares since Martin Luther fled
from his monastery and begone to teache this nevv and liceÌ„cious doctrine from vvhence all these other pety sects are deriued they are encreased and multiplyed to an 150. and moe different one froÌ„ an other as hath bene sene in other tymes and heresyes vvhich alvvayes haue vvorne theÌ„ selues out of credite by this meanes for as it is the priuiledge of truth that it can be but one as a strayght lyne by no art can be made but of one fashion so all that is not grounded in truthe is subiect of it selfe to multiplicity as crooked lynes once varyeng from strayghtnes may be made of a thovvsand contrary fashioÌ„s And for that heresyes be nothinge els but Doctae fabulae cunning lyes as S. Peter calleth them lyke to the fictions of players poets 2. Petr. 1. notvvithstanding for a vvhyle they please the people for noueltyes sake yet for that the nature of man is so affected to truthe as he cannot but embrace it beinge sufficiently Knovven it follovveth that the vnderstanding once throughly convinced vvith the truthe doth consequently reiect and detest vvhatsoeuer is contrary vnto it And in this manner all heresyes haue come to naught as no doubt but these of our countrey vvill also doe for notvvithstanding the interest and authority of Princes the industry of politikes and the art eloqueÌ„ce and endeuors of theyr authors may for a vvhile support them yet they quickly vvax stale and out of request and the authority majesty and euidence of the Catholique truthe prevaylinge vvith the vvyser sort excludeth by little and little these other noueltyes and buryeth them in perpetuall obliuion for that as Zorobabel sayd Magna est veritas praevalet 3. Esdr 4. Heresyes haue diuers authors and founders and so consequently diuers formes of seruice and farre different articles of Religion but the CatholicKes vse the same Masse and Mattins and all other necessarie ceremonies therto bebelonginge throvvghout the vvhole vvorlde theire professioÌ„ of faith is one and the same in all countries M. If this be so hovv then are there so many orders of MoncKes and friers vvho are of diuers religions some beinge Bernardines Benedictines Carthusians some Augustines Dominicanes Franciscans Iesuites Carmelites and the lyke D. All these agree vniformely in all thinges that belonge to the selfe same Catholique faith and religion Sacraments and other ceremonies of the Church and doe differ only in habite houres of prayer manner of doinge penance and rules for their deuotion agreeinge all in the substance of a religious lyfe Religious Vovves vvhich is the obseruance of these three vovves pouerty obedience and chastitie so that albeit the coÌ„mon people doe somtimes call them diuers religions by reason of theire different habites yet no Catholique man doubteth but that they are all of the selfe same Catholique faith and religion M. And is it lavvfull to vovv these thinges See Gen. 28. Levitic 27. Numerar 1. Deuter 23. Iudic 11.1 Reg 1.2 Reg. 15. Ps 75. Eccli 5 Baruch 6. Matth. 14. Mar. 16. Act 18.1 Tim. 4. Luc. 20.1 Cor. 7. Cypr. fer de natiuitate Christi Ambros lib. at Vrâ—â—is Epist. 82. Hic râ—â—d 1. aduersus Iouinian Ep. 22. ad EustochiuÌ„ August ser 16. 62. deâ—â—e in EuchiridioÌ„ c. 121. l. 1. de adulterinis coÌ„ jug c. 14. lib. de Sacta Vâ—rg c. 14. Naâ—â— de Virgiâ—â—tate 2. Maâ—haâ— 3. Matt. 19. Apoc 14. or may a man be able to Keepe them D. VVho doubteth but such as are enemies of vertues especially since Christ him selfe did praescribe the same to his Apostles though not as commaundements ye at as counsels biddinge them to sell all they had and giue it to the poore teachinge theÌ„ obedieÌ„ce by his ovvne example and comparing those vvhich liue chast to the Angels in heauen vvho neyther mary nor are maried M. VVhy are there three principall counsells and no more D. Because these counsells serue to take avvay the principall impediments of perfection vvhich coÌ„sisteth in charitye and the impediments are three that is to say the loue of vvordly goods vvhich is taken avvay vvith pouertie the loue of carnall pleasures vvhich is taken avvay vvith the vovve of chastitie the loue of povver and honoure vvhich is taken avvay vvith obedience So as by giuinge vnto God our temporall goods by pouertie oure bodie by chastitie and oure soules by obedience vve come to make a sacrifice or holocaust vnto God of all vve haue and so dispose our selues vnto the perfection of charitie in the best manner that in this lyfe is possible Free VVill. Gen. 4. Leuitici 26. Deut. 30. Eccli 13. 1. Cor. 15. Apoc 3. Iren. l. 4. c. 9. 71. 76. Iustin cont Tryphoneâ— apog 1. 1. q. 9. Clem. padagogiae l 1. c. 6. Stromat l. 1. c. 5. Tert. de exhortat castitatis l. 2. cont MarcioneÌ„ Aug. coÌ„tra Pelag. l. 1 c. 2 l. 2. c. 5. 10. de gratia libero arbitr c. 15. 18. Ambros de vocatione geÌ„t lib. 1. c. 5. lib. 2. c. 9. Hieron cont Iouinian lib. 2. Ep. 146. Chrysost in Gen. hom 23. ad Galat. c. 3. bo 3. in 〈◊〉 ad Tim. 1. CoÌ„c Carthag Arausic c. 8. Leo. Pap. ep 184 M. Hovv can a man vovv that vvhich is not in his povver to fulfill D. Vertue vvith Gods grace and assistance is in the povver of our freevvill if vvee doe our duety for God can neuer be vvantinge in that he hath promised M. And hath a man Free VVill. D. VVithout doubt sir for by free vvill a maÌ„ differeth from a beast and othervvise God in vaine should giue him counsell or coÌ„mandement to doe any thing and should vniustly punnishe him or damne him vvhen he doth amisse because if he vvanted free vvill he could doe no other M. VVhy then may a man be iustified by his ovvne vvorKes vvith out faith may that be D. IustificatioÌ„ See Conc. Trident Sess 6. c. 8. 9. D. Paul ad Rom. Galat Cor. D. Iacobus D. Pet. Ep. per totum No for sooth for faith is the foundacion of all iustice vvithout vvhich no man can please God Yet it is not only our faith that doth iustifie but a lively faith that is faith vvith charity and good vvorkes for vvithout charity vvhich giueth forme and lyfe to our faith althoughe'd man could vvorke miracles he could not be saued for Sant Paule saith that althoughe he had faith to moue mountaines c. Yet all profiteth him nothinge vvithout charity and the grace of God vvhich in substance is all one and saint Iames sayeth that faith vvithout good vvorks is dead M. But is it not enough for our justificatioÌ„ saluatioÌ„ that God doth impute Christes justice vnto vs D. No sir Good VVorkes D. Iacob c. 2. versi 19. Ezec 18. Ps 14 Matt. 19.25 2. Cor. 5. IoaÌ„ 5. Tit. 3.1 Petr. 1.1 IoaÌ„ 2. Apoc. 14. vlt. Clem. Alex. lib. 5. Stroni Chrysost
hom 25. in Mat. 30. in Ioan. Naz. or in S. Lanacrum Cyril lib. 9. in Ioan. c. 9. lib. 6. cap. 1.3 4. Hieron in cap. 3. ad Galatas Ambros de vocation gent. libr. 1. cap. 8. August de Vita Christi 14. de fide operibus cap. 14. in Psalm 31. Gregor homil 38. in Euang. Trident. Sess 6. cap. 16. Basil lib. de Spiritu Sancto cap. 24. c. for grace and Christian justice is also inherent in the soule and this imputatiue iustice is a meere fiction in fauor of sinne puttinge vvicked men in hope to goe to heaueÌ„ vvithout vertue pehance or obseruance of Christs holy lavve M. So that faith only doth not justifie vvithout Good VVorkes D. No forsooth for the Deuills do also beleeue and tremble and as the bodie is dead vvithout the soule so is faith vvithout good vvorkes and charity so that onely a liuely faith doth justifie that is faith vvith charity M. VVhat are these vvorkes vvhich you call good D. To loue God aboue all thinges and my neighbour as my selfe to fast and pray and giue almes vvith all other vvorkes of mercy and iustice as the Angell Raphael taught Tobias M. You haue ansvvered like a clerke but lett vs returne to the other signes or markes of the Catholique Church vvhat is the seconde D. The secoÌ„de signe Holie The second is Sanctam that is holy for in it only are all holies as especially the Sacraments vvhich are the conductes of Gods grace vvherin is trevv holines M. But beinge so many sinnes in it hovv is it called holy See cant 4. Ephe 5. 1. Pet. 2 Iren. l. 3. c. 40 Aug. in Ps 85. Enchiri c. 56. Greger 1 Moral cap. 6. Bern. serm 3. D. Because it notvvithstanding there are in it alvvayes the giftes of the holy ghoast and because out of it there can bee no holynes nor saluatioÌ„ and the very sinners that are in it haue the holy faith and baptisme M. And haue not the hereticks and Ievves also Sacraments D. No for first the Ievves are novv infidels as vvell as the Turkes Paganes because their Sacramentes and Ceremonies all ceased vvhen the lavve of the nevv testament vvas published Ceremonies of Baptisme See Dionys Areopag lib. de Eccles Iie rar Tertull. libr. de coronae militis Amb. de initiandis myster Orig. ho. 5. in num Leo. Papa Ep. 81. Innoc. 1. Ep. 1. ad Decent Eugen. Conc. Tol. 4. can 2. Isidor c. and they vveare bound presently vpon the promulgation therof to forsake them And hereticks haue no true Sacrament vvihch they acKnovvledge Baptisme only excepted vvhich is not theirs but ours nether is it of effecte by them but by the intention of the Catholique Church M. And is the Baptisme of an heretike then sufficient D. In substance hauinge forme and matter of a true Sacrament and the intention of the Catholique Church it is sufficient but the Ceremonies vvhich they leaue out as the insusflation Exorcisme chrisme and the lyke are in no vvise to be neglected vvhere they may be conueniently supplied because they haue also their vertue mystery and benediction and haue bene alvvayes in vse euer since the Apostles tyme in Gods Church M. You say right vvell for there is no Catholique ceremonie Ioan. 9.11.20 Luc. vl Mar. 7.8 Matt. 8.14 ydle superfluous or superstitious but rather most necessarie venerable and full of mysterye and comforte but tell me is it not sufficient for saluation to be predestinated allbeit he be noâ— baptized Predestination See 4. Reg. 14 Eccli 18. Sap. 11. Ezech. 18 1. ad Tim. 2. 2. Petr. 3. c. D. Alas sir vvhat haue I to doe vvith predestination vvihch is a thinge in Gods eternall minde before eyther I or the vvorlde vvas made and therfore passing mans capacity to comprehend it vvherin is to be obserued that manye deceyuâ— them selues by mistakinge the true signification of the vvorde 1. p. q. 23. art 5. for Praedestination as Sant Thomas teacheth is diuersly vnderstoode sometymes for the cause of predestination vvhich is Gods eternall appoyntment and disposition and sometymes for the effect of praedestination vvhich importeth our eternall saluation and the meanes vvherby vve must attayne vnto it And for that both the holy Scriptures and fathers vse the vvorde sometymes in one sence sometymes in an other the vnlearned oftentymes taKe occasion to confound them selues and theyr ovvne consciences in the speculation of this mysterye No man can tell vvho is predestinate or vvho is reprobate but this I Knovve and am certaine that excepte a man be christened and Keep Gods commaundements he caâ—not be saued and God commaâ—deth nothinge that is ether 〈◊〉 reasonable or impossible at therfore as it behooveth vs nâ—â— to be curious in searching Goâ— secrets so it importeth vs not be negligent in the execution 〈◊〉 that vvhich belongeth vnto 〈◊〉 but accordinge to S. Peters coâ—â— sayl to make certaine our voâ—â—tion by our good vvorkes M. VVell then to returne to 〈◊〉 Church is there any reason â—â—hy our Church is called holy 〈◊〉 not that of the Heretikes D. That ther is for in the Cathâ—â—â—que Church haue beene all 〈◊〉 saintes that euer vveare anâ— neuer vvanted many holy 〈◊〉 renovvned for their vertue 〈◊〉 sanctitie of lyfe testified by 〈◊〉 numerable miracles and by shâ—â—ding of their blood for Cathâ—â—â—que Religion and vertue vvhich sanctity of lyfe proceedeth from the holy doctrine Sacraments and other helps that Christ hath left vs in his Catholique Church no othervvise then pretious fruyts and svveet smelling flovvers take their vertue from the roote from vvhence they grovv VVher vpon it folovveth that it is impossible that any man truely beleeue and obserue that vvhich the Catholique fayth commaundeth and teacheth but that he must be endovved vvith grace vertue vvherin true holinesse coÌ„sisteth and onely those Catholiques be not vertuous vvho break the lavves of Catholique ReligioÌ„ vvher contraryvvise it is manifest that one may obserue all that the Protestants or Puritanes prescribe to be Kept and beleeued and yet be no honester a man theÌ„ ther good masters the famous apostataes Martin Luther and Iohn Caluin vvere vvhose doctrine as all other sectes and heresyes of their ovvne nature induce men to sinne For as the honour done vnto the Idols of the Panims Cupide Venus Bacchus and such others vvhoÌ„ falsly they esteemed as Gods did authorise and bringe in all liberty and levvdnesse of lyfe sâ— the erroneous opinions of thesâ— late sectaries persvvading thâ— people that they haue no freâ—vvill nor any need of good vvoâ—Kes Confession satisfaction 〈◊〉 penance for theyr sinnes and thâ— lyke but that it suffiseth for alâ— onely to beleeue hath opened sâ— broad a vvay to all dissolution 〈◊〉 it may vell seeme that vnder thâ— cloake of Christes name anâ— visard of the Gospel they indeâ—â— adore the same filthy Idols 〈◊〉 the blinde and carnal gentilitâ— hovvsoeuer amongst them some rather deceyved by
heretiques then such indeed may by reason of theyr naturall inclination to vertue and modesty be vvith holden from those excesses vvherunto other vvise theyr erroneous beleefe doth provoke theÌ„ as amongst the Moores Turks Ievves and other infidels some morall honest men are to be found But you shall never find that any man habituated accustomed to sinne hath bene coÌ„verted to vertue and holynesse of lyfe by the force of any Religion but only in by the Catholique fayth of vvhich are proprely vnderstood those vvordes of the Prophet Lex DnÌ„i iÌ„maculata coÌ„verteÌ„s animas the lavv of God is vnspotted and coÌ„verteth soules And by vvhich oÌ„ly meÌ„ become saintes gyving theyr lyues in testimony of this faith are truely called Martyrs of vvhose merites and of all other holy and spirituall benefittes and graces The communioÌ„ of Saintes Ps 118. Rom. 12.1 Cor. 12. 2. Cor. 8. Ephe. 4. Coloss 2. Philippens 1. IoaÌ„n 1. Aug. EnchiridioÌ„ c. 36 ser de tpe â—81 The Thirde signe Vniuersall Ps 2. versi 8. Mat. 28. Ma r. 16. Luc. 24. Cypr. l. de vnitale Ecclesiae Bas Epist 72. Hieron l. 4. in Isai c. 12. Anbros in Ps 39 Aug. in Ps 9 reg in regiset alibi all Good Catholiques as children of the same mother are made partakers VVhervpon allso folovveth an other article in the Creede The communion of Saintes M. So that there can be no saint nor Martyr excepte he be Catholique although he die for his Religion D. No vndoubtedly for it is not the punishment as S. Austine sayeth but the cause intention that maketh a Martyr M. VVel goe forvvard then vvith the other markes of the Church D. The thirde is the name Catholique vvhich signifieth Vniuersall and folovveth of the reason aboue said for that is the true faith and consequently must nedes be but one As vve see that it is receiued generally in the vvhole vvorlde amongst all nations vnto the farthest endes of the earth and hath florished in all ages euer since Christ The Fourth signe Apostolique Vide. D. Basil l. de Spir. S. c. 27. Tertul. de praescript cap 36. Leo. Pap. ser 1. de Petr. Paulo Irenae l. 3. adâ—â—rsus haereses c. 4. Aug. Epist 50. ad Bonifa ibi 1. ad HonoratuÌ„ tom 6. contra Ep. Fundam c. 4 l. 1. coÌ„tra CrescomiuÌ„ gramat c. 33. hist Triparsitam l. 9. c. 19. vvher as other sectes remaine in corners and as they breed of corruption so they dure not longe nor by any of them vvas euer any nation conuerted to Christ M. VVhich is the fourth marke D. This vvorde Apostolique for by continuall succession of Popes and Bishops from Christes Apostles vvee can proue that our Religion hath euer endured in the vvorlde neuer corrupted nor interrupted euen vnto this day vvhich no heretike can say but that he is presently conuinced of nouelty M. That is very true and especially of the sectaries of this age vvhich beganne all vvith their maister Luther in the yeare of our lord 1517. But tell me also the fifte and last note The fifte signe Romaine Vide Mat. 16 5. Leo. 5. Mar. in festuÌ„ Apostolor Orig tom 1. in proemio periarchen Anaclet Pap. Ep. 1. Chrysost de Aâ—â—st Petro Paulo Hieren Ep. ad Daâ—â—sum Terâ—ull de praescript cont haeret c. 36. vvhy doe you call it the Romaine faith D. Because saint Peter on vvhome as vpon a rocKe our Sauiour built his Church and promised that his faith should neuer faile saienge that hell gates should neuer preuaile against it first planted and possessed that seate togeather vvith saint Paule and aftervvardes they beinge the principall Apostles sealed the authority of the same vvith theyr glorious Martyrdome Since vvhen euen vnto the Pope novv lyuinge vvas neuer any heretique nor Apostata in that holy chayre and there haue beene in it many vvorthy saintes and Martyrs M. So that vvhosoeuer doth not buyld on this rocKe or builde besides it can not be constant nor assured in Religion D. Very true and moreouer he may be sure that his buildinge vvill perish as it appeareth in all the heresies of times past vvhich novv God be praysed are consumed though for a tyme they raged vvith sundry persecutions like vvaues of the sea against this vnmoueable rocke of our Religion And the lyKe ende I hope for shortly of all these present sectaries M. You haue great reason For heauen and earth shall passe but this vvorde and promise is euerlasstinge But tell me if the case so stande vvhat foundacion doe those seculare Princes builde vppon vvhich take vnto them selues the title of supremacie in Ecclesiasticall as vvell as ciuile affaires D. Vppon the sandes and shalovves of flatteringe courtiers and couetous politiques Cromvvel and Cranmer after vvar doe executed for traitoures K. Henry the. 8. deceiued by euil counsaile vvhich vvas the firste K. that eâ—â—er tooke the title of supremcye on him Hughe Latimer Peter Martir Martin Bucer Ridley c. â—o groâ— that eueÌ„ Caluin him selfe theire chiefe Catangeliste vvrote against yt repreheÌ„dinge therfore K. Harry thoughe vvith more libertie theÌ„ became so sleighte a CompanioÌ„ to speake of so potents a prince See his preface vppon Amoâ— vvho to enioye the fatte morsells of Abbey landes and Church goods first put this false persuasion in they re Princes heades soothinge theire rauenous pretensions vvith the vendible doctrine of hungrye ministers vvho for they re priuate interest enuye and ambition made sale of they re ovvn conscience and shipvvracke of the vvhole common vvealth by preachinge this grosse and erroneous paradox hauinge no one sentence vvorde or syllable in holy scripture or any aunciente vvriter for it M. VVhy doe not the scriptures often say that the Kinge is to be honoured and feared and the like D. I graunte yovv but vvhat coherence or consequence hath this vvith makinge the Kinge or Queen a Pope or Bishope or supreame head of the Church vvhich is all one seinge them selues graunte that a vvoman or seculare person thoughe a Prince can not doe the office of a prieste Pope or Bishope as to minister the Sacramentes preache in publike giue holy orders or the liKe vvhich are annexed and can not be denyed to him vvhich in truth is head of the Church no more then it can be denyed in ciuile affaires that a Kinge if he liste may supply the place of an Esquire Knighte Mayre or Constable or any other office vvhich is subordinate to him selfe in his ovvne Kingdome because the greater and superior povvre doth all vvayes include the lesser and the inferior jurisdiction M. If this be so those that be Catholiques and liue vnder suche a Prince as VVoulde take this title vpon him vvill hardelie be thoughte true subiectes for they re conscience beinge contrarye thervnto it seemeth to folovv that they serue they re Prince but by halues that is vvith they re bodies onlye D. Perhappes it seemeth so but in truth
it is far othervvise for Good Catholiques Knovv that all subiectes are bounde in conscience to obey theyr lavvfull Prince in all thinges belonginge to his regall iurisdiction and dignitie thoughe he vvere an heathen or infidel and therfore serue him vvith they re soules allso so longe as the Kinge doth not commaunde any thinge againste God vvhich I hope no Christian vvill doe But protestauntes and politiques vvhich turne vvith euery proclamation and parlamente euen in matter of faith allso I aske yovv vvith vvhat conscience or soule they serue they re soueraigne doe yovv not thincKe that these companions if it shoulde serue they re turne vvoulde be as flexible vvith they re bodyes as they are vvith they re soules all readye and so serue him in deed vvith neyther halfe vvhen he shoulde haue moste need of they re seruice seinge there can be no durable obedience but that vvhich is founded in true Religion as appeared in the famous example of the Emperoure Constantius Euseb libr. 1. de Vita Constantin Zozom lib. 1. c. 6 vvho by the constancye of his seruauntes in Religion tryed they re fidelitie and truste to his person all be it the triall vvere made in a Religion vvhich him selfe did not folovv M. But hovv can yovv excuse this pointe that the Kinge by submittinge hīselfe to the Pope in Church matters must needes putte a bridle in his ovvn mouth and depriue him selfe of his chiefest libertie by takinge suche a yoke on his shoulders D. If I did not see before mine eyes that the most Christian and vvithall the moste puissaunte Kinges of all Christendome thincKe this subjection no disparagemente to theire greatnes nor abridgemente to theire libertie and florishe moste gloriously vnder this estate I shoulde peraduenture thincke yovv had some reason to propose this quaestion Kinge Edgar K. Edvvarde the firste and the thirde K. Henry the fifte c. but beinge as it is yea and that in oure ovvn countrie neuer Kinges more triumphed and prospered eyther in peace or vvarres eyther by sea or lande eyther at home or in forraine countries then those vvhich vvere moste obediente to the Popes authoritie vvhat bridle or yoke call yovv that vvhich so many Kinges and Emperoures haue caryed vvith encrease of they re honoure and comforte of they re conscience especiallie seinge the obediēce vve exhibite to the Pope as Christes Vicar is referred moste directelie to the honoure and glorie of God Cui seruire regnare est Gods seruice is a Kingedome as the Prouerbe affirmeth And I pray God they vvhich rejecte this yoke rejecte not God him selfe as once he saide in the lyke case 1. Reg. cap. 8. to the people of Israel vvhen they refused the gouermente of Samuel the Prophete and asked a Kinge M. VVhy Thincke yovv it vvere not conueniente that the Pope at leaste for the Catholiques cōforte and ease shoulde dispense vvith them to th ende they mighte so contente the better they re Prince vvhen he shall exacte this spirituall obedience at they re handes D. In no case for as muche as in so doinge muste needes follovv cōfusion in all Ecclesiasticall discipline and Christian men shoulde be lefte vvithout a iudge or vmpyre to decide determine all doubtes and controuersies vvhich may grovv in Religion especially consideringe that no estate is more occasioned to gyue scandall vnto the cōmon people neyther haue any sorte of men more greeuously erred in all matters belonginge to true Religion and Gods seruice then Kinges them selues as to omitte all other examples the holy scriptures doe testifie that amonghste all and so many Kinges of God◠chosen people there vvere bu◠three onelye that Kepte Gods lavv Dauid Ezechias and Iosias Eccl. cap. 49. the reste euery one more or lesse fallinge them selues or permittinge manifest idolatrie Besides vvhich allbeit the Pope vvoulde he can not dispense in this pointe no more then in any article of the Crede for as much as both this and all other articles of the Catholique faith are commaunded and cōmended to Christians by Christe him selfe vvhose diuine preceptes especially be longing to faith as this doth of S. Peters primacie vvhich Christe him selfe appointed the Pope cānot chaunge M. You haue sayde arighte and by this yovv see it follovveth that no temporall Prince oughte to presse his Catholique subjectes in this case excepte he vvill allso compell them to deny God vvhom they are vndoubtedley persuaded to be the author maister and commaunder of this doctrine but lette vs returne to oure former question are there any more signes markes of this true Church D. Yea sir many in so much that the learned haue vvritten vvhole volumes of the same But these fiue are enough for me beinge founded in such substantiall reasons as are the Principalitie vnitie sanctitie antiquitie and vniuersalitie of the Romain Church hovv thinke you M. Mary I thinke passinge vvell o◠it and vvishe that vve all may haue grace to perseuer in it and vvhen God shoulde so dispose to leese all our goods and landes yea and our liues also for the same M. You haue sayde enoughe of the Church and by that little you haue sayde of the communion o◠the communion of saintes you haue sufficiently giuen to vnderstande hovv great a benefitte it is to bee a member of such a charitable and blessed bodie but tell me as all Catholiques liuinge enjoy this communion of eche others praiers merittes and good vvorkes doe those also participate of them vvhich are excommunicated by lavvful authority Excommunication D. No sir for therefore they are called excommunicated because they are depriued of this communion of saintes and are as braūches cutte of from the tree or membres from the bodie vvhich consequently doe not participate of that good humore vvhich is spreade amongste the rest of the braunches vvhich remaine vnited VVhere by may be gathered vvhat greate accōpte ought to bee made of excommunication seinge he can not haue God for his father vvhich hath not the Church for his mother M. And are the excommunicate out of the Church as vvell as heretickes and other infidells D. They are sir But vvith this difference that Ievves and Turkes are out of the Churche because they neuer entred in-to it by baptisme The heretickes vvhich are baptized but haue loste theyr faith are foorthe because they are fled or runne avvay of them selues like strayde or loste sheepe vvhome the shephearde doth vvith his hooke compell some tymes to returne to his flocke againe But the excommunicate because they haue baptisme and faith are not fledde of them selues but are driuen foorth by force by the pastor and lefte lyke scabbed sheepe for praye to the vvolues excepte by humility and obedience they returne againe to the folde M. VVhat is meante by Remission of sinnes Remissiō of sinnes vvhich is the tenthe article D. There are in Gods Church three principall benefittes Mat. 16. Ioā 20. Cypr. l. 1. Ep. 2. Chryso lib. 3. de
of sinne vvhich might hinder or diminishe the same I say sinne not only Actuall vvhether Mortall or Veniall but not so much as Originall sinne it selfe And vvithall she vvas so plentifully endovved vvith all kinde of vertues and giftes of the holy ghoast in the hyghest degree and had vvroughte so manie and so meritorious vvorkes in Gods sight that she vvas made vvorthie to mounte aboue all the quiers of the Angels both in bodie and soule M. This seemeth much For vvhy then doe you not attribute the same to sainte Steuen and other saintes vvhich are allso sayde to bee full of grace D. The quantitie and aboundance of grace is to be measured by the greatnes of the office and dignitie vvhich God hath called euerie one vnto Novv because the greatest office that euer vvas giuen vnto any pure creature vvas to bee the mother of God therfore our Blessed Ladie vvas made capable and filled vvith greater grace then any other pure creature And so both Saint Steuen and other saintes thoughe neuer so full beinge so farre inferiour in office and dignitie muste needes giue place in comparison of the graces of our blessed Ladie for this is not vnlike to manie vessells vvho allthough they be all full of balme or other like pretious licoure yeat one doth often hould more then an other M. Tell me novv vvhich are the other prayses vvhich you say are comprised in this prayer D. The seconde is in those vvordes Our lord is vvith thee VVhere by vve knovv that God in singular vvise did allvvayes assiste the blessed VirgeÌ„ euen from the first instante of her conception gouerninge keepinge and defendinge her as a moste rich treasure so as she neuer offended in thought vvorde nor deede The thirde is coÌ„teyned in those vvordes Blessed art thou amongeste vve men Because she only amongest all vvomen had that priuiledge to bee both a maide and a mother A mother I say of such a childe vvhich is more vvorthe then a hundred thousand children of other vvomen Albeit she may be sayde allso to be the mother of greate multitudes of children for as much as all good Christians are brothers of Christ and consequently are children of our blessed Ladie thoughe not by generation yeat by tender loue and motherly affection vvhich she beareth tovvardes all The fourth is in those vvordes Blessed is the fruyte of thy vvombe IESVS For as the prayse of the fruyte doth redounde to the tree so the glorie of the childe must much more redouÌ„de to the honoure of the mother And euen as euerie true liuinge tree thoughe it haue once borne fruyte remaineth vvith sufficient vigoure and vertue to beare euerie yeare the like againe so our blessed Ladie as the true tree of lyfe hauinge once borne God as the peculiar fruyte of her vvombe remained still not only vvith sufficient but vvith more aboundaÌ„te grace merite and vertue theÌ„ before to become his mother againe once euerie yeare if so it seemed ether coÌ„uenient to Gods highe vvisedome prouidence or needfull for mans RedeÌ„ption vvhereby it appeareth hovv fitt this similitude is and no vvounder seinge it is no mans but the holy ghoastes invention As contrarievvise those coÌ„parisons are of the deuill vvhich are by her enemies inuented to diminishe her praise and dignitye M. I like this vvell but if our Ladie as before you sayde be in heaueÌ„ both in bodie and soule vvhat Ladie is that vvhich staÌ„des vppoÌ„ the altare in other places of the Church D. It is not our Ladie but her image only by vvhich vve remeÌ„ber her vvhich is in heauen and in that respecte vve doe it honoure and reuerence M. But as there be many images are there allso many Ladies D. No forsooth but one only vvhich is alvvais in heauen M. Hovv then doe Catholique people vse to call vpon our Ladie of Loreto and others our Ladie of Guadalupe or Monserratto or our Ladie of Rhemes or of vvalsingham vvhich are all in diuers countries D. Sir vvee call her so vvith diuers names by reason of the manyfould benifites she doth obtaine for vs by her prayers in those places M. VVhat doe you aske of our blessed Ladie do you peradventure aske forgiuenes of your sinnes or the grace of God or lyfe euerlastinge of her D. No sir For vve aske those thinges of God both her our creatour M. VVhat then do you aske of her vvhen you pray vnto her D. That she vvillbe our aduocate and mediatresse before her blessed childe to obtaine all this for vs. Inuocation of Saintes M. And doe you pray to the saintes in like manner D. Altogeather remembringe allvvayes notvvithstandinge that there is no sainte aequal vnto goddes mother and therfore none that deserueth like honoure and reuerence of all true Christians M. But may a man say the Paâ—â—r Noster or Aue Marie to the honoure or inuocation of any other sainte or Angell D. Yeas doubtles hauinge this intention eyther to pray vnto God that for his saintes or Angels intercessioÌ„ vvho as Christ saith in the gospell doe allvvayes see his fathers face he vvoulde haue mercy on my soule or to craue of the saintes them selues that they vvill offer that prayer I make to God for me M. VVhy vvill God refuse our prayers excepte the saintes doe offer them for vs D. No but he doth the more vvillingey heare them vvhen they are offered vnto him by his frendes vvhich vve because of our sinnes for the most parte are not M. You say vvell for our Sauiour calleth his Apostles frendes euen vvhen they vvere in this vvorlde vvith him but tell me vvhen ought vve principally to recommend our selues vnto them D. Truly at all tymes but especially in our distresse and vpon theyr festiuall dayes M. Holie dayes Reliques of Saintes Vidâ— Basil ho. 26. in MamaÌ„ teÌ„ martyr Euseb libr. 13. de Athan. Ambro in 22. Lucae serm 9 in sancto GeruasiuÌ„ Protasium Chrysost ho. 66. ad populuÌ„ Antio chenum Hieron Ep. 27. ad EustocbiuÌ„ Ep. 53. lib. coÌ„tra VigilaÌ„t Damas. lib. 4. de fide cap. 16 Aug. in ps 88 l. 22. de ciuit c. 8. in ps 110 7. synod act 3 Chrysos de Babyla mart Victor African de persecut Vandalica And vvhat cause may there be vvhy the Church doth keepe theire dayes holy and reuerence theire reliques D. There are many but especially fiue M VVhich are they D. The first is to glorifie God in his saintes seeinge the vvonderfull vvorkes he hath alvvais vvrought by them The seconde because by the honoure vvhich is done them in earthe vve may the better vnderstande the glorie they enioy in heauen The thirde that thereby knovvinge they re liues and vertue vve may be exhorted to imitate and follovve they re exaÌ„ple fith they vvere mortall men as vve are The fourth to encrease our deuotion tovvardes God by bearinge affectioÌ„ and loue vnto such vvorthy intercessors The fift because our mother the holy Church vvill
Sancti Iacobus Basil Chrysostom in liturgiis Chrysostom hom 77. in Ioanâ—eâ— homili 18. in Act. Apost Cyprian libr. 1. Epiâ—â—l 9. Epiphan haeresi 75. D. Hieronym 1. ad Tiâ—â—â— Clem. Rom. Epistol 5. Ambros in Psalm 38. â— 1 efficior cap. 18. August libr. 9. confess cap. 11 1â—.13 since the beginninge of the vvorlde and for that our Sauiour ordained a better forme of religion then euer had been eyther vnder the lavv of nature or the lavv of Moyses he appointed allso and gaue vs the greatest sacrifice that could be possible vvich vvas him selfe in the Masse M. The Masse hath many partes in it tell me vvherein beginneth the true bodie and bloode of our Sauiour to be present D. Strayght vppon the vvordes of consecration vvhich is at the eleuation at vvhat tyme it is especially adored of all true Christians M. And vvho vvas the first that euer sayde Masse in the vvorlde D. Our Sauiour Iesus Christ in his last supper Vide Orig. homil 3. in variis Naz. orat in GorgoniaÌ„ Chrysost hom 24. in 1. ad Cor. homil 61. ad populum Antiochen Aug. in Ps 98. Amb. lib. 3. de Spiritu Sanct. cap. 12. at vvhat tyme he made his Apostles priestes gyuinge them povver and authority to doe the like and to make and teache others that should succeed them M. Hovv chauÌ„ceth it that this vvord Masse is not founde in holy Scripture D. Because the names of things are gyuen vppon sundry occasions and our fayth is not grounded on vvordes but in thinges and substance for in lyke manner neyther these vvordes Trinity Incarnation Consubstantiall and the lyke are to be found in holy vvritte yeat Christians beleeue coÌ„stantly these mysteries M. You ansvvere to the purpose but tell me may not those vvordes of our Sauiour vvherevvith he did consecrate be vnderstood by a figure D. The reall presence of Christ in the B SacrameÌ„t No sir in no vvise at all for being the most important mystery of all other vvhich euer he taught his Apostles if he had spoken by a figure he him selfe vvould haue expounded the same as he did many others of lesse moment besides that Mat. 26. Mar 14. Luc. 22. 1. Corint 11. Aug. Ep. 86. Châ—â—sost hom 17. Operis imperfecti Theâ—philact Be daâ—â—n 24. Luc Aug. lib. 3. de â—â—â—â—buaÌ„g 〈◊〉 2â— Tertull. â— 2 ad vxâ—r Cypr. serm de de lapsis Orige hom 13. in Exod. Basi ad CaesariuÌ„ Hieron in prolog coÌ„tra Iouin Euseb l. 6. bis c. 36. Ambro. in Satyâ— Theodoret in Theophili vita 26 Euagr. l. 4. c. 35. Aug. ho. 26 ex quinquinquinta Basil ad CaesariuÌ„ pat Cyril Alex. Ep. ad Calosci Euseb Emiss hom 5. de paschate CoÌ„c Trid. sess 13. can 3. ConstaÌ„tieÌ„ BasilieÌ„s the gospell maketh no mention of any such meaninge Thirdly the Euangelistes and Saint Paule all in one manner rehearse the vvhole matter vvithout any mention of parable or figuratiue meaninge vvhich in other occasions they doe very often as sayenge Quae sunt per allegoriam dicta that is vvhich are spoken by an allegorie or figure c. And lastly all men in their last vvill testameÌ„t speake as plaine as they can possiblye and you knovv vvell this vvas our Sauiours last vvill and testament vvhich he lefte vnto the vvorld and to his spouse the Church the night before he departed this lyfe neyther could he or Saint Paul speake any thinge more plainly neyther did euer any Doctor holy father or interpreter of holy Scripture doubte of this propre sense of our Sauiours doctrine excepte he vvere an heretike For allbeit some one father or other hath sayd that vvhen our Sauiour gaue his bodye he gaue allso a figure of the same to his Apostles yeat neuer any interpreted these vvordes in that manner vvhich is that vve here especially speake of Novv that the thinge it selfe may be ministred and yeat a figure it hath no contradiction as for example if the Kinge of Englande shoulde cause a comedie to be made of his receauinge to the crovvne and him selfe vvoulde play the Kinges parte it is manifest that one and the selfe same person shoulde be both a figure and the thinge figured the representer and the thinge represented vvhich in this Sacramente is allso manifeste Christe his bodre vvhich is reallye presente representinge the same bodye that suffered for vs and in the shape of bread and vvine signifienge the nourishmeÌ„te of our soules by his grace The ceremonies of the Masse Vide loca infra citata to vvhich end this Sacramente is chiefely ordained M. You haue sayde enoughe of this pointe of the reall presence tell me novv the meaninge of the ceremonies vvhich are in the masse Diony Eccles Hierarch c. 3. Iacob in liturgia Cle. Rom. l. 8. CoÌ„stit Apostolic Cypr. de caena duÌ„i Aug. Ep. 57. ad Dardan et ep 59. ad Pan. Bas ad AmfilochiuÌ„ c. 27. et in liturgia Cyrill Hierosâ—l catehe 5. Chrysost ho. 14. ad Ephe ho. 5. ad Colo. et ho. 36 in 1. ad Cor. ho de AdaÌ„ Eua. ho. 24. in Act. Apost et ho. 4 de dei natura hom 24 41. in 1. ad Cor. ho. 51. ad populuÌ„ Antioch ho 17. ad Hebrae Canones vetere DuraÌ„ in ration c. and first vvhy this Sacramente is ministred to the people vnder one kinde D. It is ministred vnto the people in such sorte first because Christ him selfe did some tymes so minister the same as in Emaus as allso the Apostles after him did as it is to be seene acto 2.20.27 c. Secondly to auoyde many inconueniences and perills of sacrilege vvhich by ministringe vnder both kindes often hapned our Sauioure hauinge lefte no precepte heerein but onely to priestes and benige certaine that vvhole Christ is vnder eyther kinde in the Sacrament the masse although it be sayde in short space doth represent the most high and vvorthy matters that may be euen since Adam vnto the ende of the vvorlde M. Tell me hovv and in vvhat manner and that vvith breuity D. In this matter for that the Church hath determined nothing there be diuers opinions of Catholicke Doctors but the more common interpretation it this first that the confession vvhich the priest maketh before he goeth vp to the altare as allso the Kyrie cleysons do represent the vvorld fallen by Adames sinne and cryenge for mercy M. But then vvhat doth the Gloria in excelsi Epistle and Gospell signifie vvith the Creede D. The Gloria signifieth the natiuity of Christ for then vvas it first songen by the Angels The Epistle doth represent the ould testament vvhence oftentymes it is allso taken and particularly the comminge of Saint Iohn Baptist The Gospel signifieth the comminge and preachinge of Christ and because the levves alvvayes refused to beleeue in him the booke is caried to the other side of the altare to shevv that the Church Gospell vvas translated
to the gentiles vvho did beleeue and receaue it because in the ende of the vvorld the Ievves shall also be conuerted the booke is returned after the communion to the first place and so the Creede doth shevv the fruyte that hath come of it in the vvhole vvorlde M. And vvhy dothe the priest make a Crosse in the booke at the reading of the Gospell and then on his forhead mouth and brest D. To shevv that no Christian ought euer to be ashamed of Christes Crosse and religion vvhich he is bound to confesse vvith his mouth and neuer deny it if euer he should be put to it and last of all to beleue it invvardly in his harte and to lyue accordingly and therfore he doth allso kisse the booke to shevv duâ—ty and loue to vvards it M. And vvhat doth the offertory signifie done in such silence D. The tyme that Christ after the resurrectioÌ„ of Lazarus hidde him selfe from the Ievves and offered his future passion to his aeternall father M. Say on the rest allso vvhy doth he ioyne the vvater vvith vvine in the offringe D. To signifie that he ioyneth the peoples prayers vvith his ovvne in this sacrifice and especially to represent the vvater vvhich came foorth of our Sauiours side togeather vvith his most pretious bloode and for that it is most probable that our Sauiour did so mixte the vvine vvhich he did in his last supper consecrate M. Tell vvhat signifieth the preface and the rest D. The preface doth signifie and represent the entring of CHRIST into Hierusalem vppon Palme sunday The first memento representeth vvhen he prayed in the garden as the second doth his prayer on the Crosse vvhich is signified in the altare The eleuatioÌ„ signifieth his lifting vp vppon the Crosse vvhen he vvas first nayled therevnto the three tymes that the priest taketh the holy hoste in his handes the three hovvers vvhich our Sauiour hanged alyue on the Crosse the breaking of the same signifieth the sacred vvoundes and greefes of his bitter passion but chiefly the departure of his soule and bloode from his holy bodie vvhich is broken into three partes to signifie that the benifitte of his passion doth redounde vnto the Church militante patient and triumphant and therefore the prieste saith allso three tymes Agnus Dei. M. VVhat call you the Church patient D. The soules that are in purgatory and haue speciall comfortâ— by this holy sacrifice and therefore the thirde part of the holy hoste he letteth fall in to the chalice M. And vvhy doe the people in diuers countries rise after the coÌ„munion and stand till the priest gyue his benediction D. To signifie the firme estate of Christes Church after his ResurrectioÌ„ vnto the ende of the vvorlde vvhen our Sauiour shall gyue the electe his blessinge as he did in his Ascention to his Disciples that vvere present as the readinge of the Gospell in the ende doth allso signifie the preachinge there of by the Apostles in the vvhole vvorlde M. So you see hovv the holy Masse is a perfecte compendium or abbreuiation of Christes lyfe passion vvhereby you may learne vvith vvhat deuotion reuerence and attention you ought allvvayes to heare it and hovv vvillingely you ought to repayre to it But you haue forgotten to tell the meaninge of the prieste vestmeÌ„tes vvherein he goeth to the altare D. Sir the Amis doth signifie the cloath vvhere vvith Christ vvas blinded vvhiles the Ievves did buffet him The albe that garment vvhich Herode put on him vvhen he despised him and sent him backe to Pilate The girdle that rope vvherevvith he vvas tyed to the piller and vvhipped The maniple the haulter vvherevvith they tyed his blessed handes like a malefactor and the stole likevvise the rope vvherevvith they tyed his necke and ledde him from place to place in his passion and last of all his vestment signifieth the purple robe vvhich Pilate put vppon him vvhen he shevved him all disfigured to the Ievves saienge Ecce Hamo vvhich all haue allso morall meaninge of those vertues vvhich priestes should haue in them and haue correspondence vvith those ornamentes and garmentes vvhich God in the oulde testamente commaunded the highe prieste to vveare in tyme of sacrifice vvhich allso had theire mysteries as diuers aunciente vvriters and the holye Scriptures them selues doe declare M. I see vvell that the Masse is a true and perfecte representation of Christes Passion and the priest thus vested of his person and the altare of the Crosse But vvhat doe the chalice patene and corporalles meane D. They proprely represente the like vvhich our Sauiour vsed in his last supper moreouer the chalice signifieth his sepulcher the patene the stone rouled to the doore of the same the corporalles the fyndon vvherein his blessed body vvas envvrapped by Ioseph of Arimathia before it vvas laid in the sepulcher and all those thinges hauinge theire particular signification togeather vvith the ceremonies of the holye Masse doe sturre vp to deuotion and and pietie as vvell the people presente as the prieste him selfe and keepeth him vvith attention to the mysteries vvhich he hath in hande and no doubte vvas one especiall reason vvhy God allmightie in the oulde lavv did prescribe the vse of so manie and so diuers ceremonies in those sacrifices vvhich vvere all but a figure and shadovv of this M. Surely I cannot but vvonder to see the vvisedome and svveetnes of holy Churches ceremonies vvhich are so decent deuout significant but vvhy are there candles of vvax on the altare and lighted allvvayes at Masse yea although the sunne doe shine on the altare D. In the beginninge they vvere vsed of necessity by reason of the persecution in the primitiue Church because for the space of 300. yeares the most chappells and oratories vvhich Christians had vvere in darke places or vnder ground for feare of Ievves or heathens c. As the Emperours in Rome till Sainte Helens tyme and her sonne CoÌ„stantine the Emperoure as is yet to bee seene in Rome vvherefore the Church retaineth her custome vvhich hath allso other mysteries M. VVhat mysterie doe vvax candles signifie D. First they represent the last supper of our lord vvhen he saide the first Masse that euer vvas by candle light Secondly for that the vvax signifieth his virginall flesh the vveeke his soule and the flame his diuinitie Thirdly they put vs in minde of the good vvorkes vvherevvith he taught vs to shine and gyue light to the vvorlde M. You haue fully satisfied me and froÌ„ hence foorth I hope you vvill learne to make lesse accompt of all that those profane sectaries doe barke against Catholike customes and traditions for I see vvell there is nothinge vvithout just cause permitted But to conclude this vvhole matter tell me hovv ought a man to heare Masse and vvhat benefit he receiueth by the same D. Masse is to bee heard vvith attention reuerence and deuotioÌ„ vppon both our knees excepte at the Gospell and as the custome is in some places
to the middle of the Creede vvhen the priest adoreth and ioyning our prayers vvith the priest in euery action The commodities or benefites vve reape by hearinge Masse â—r fiue 1. increase of Gods grace 2. in diminishinge the paines of purgatory 3. facility in obtaining vvhat vve aske of God 4. particulare helpe to auoyd sinne 5. great succour from God to escape all daungers that day ⧠Of the Seuen Sacramentes ⧠CHAP. VIII M. FOR as much as you haue made mention often tymes of the Sacramentes The Seuen Sacramentes and the grace vvhich they cause tell vs hovv many are there in the Catholike Church Vide Mat. 26 28. Ioan. 20. ad Ephes 5. lae cobi 5.1 ad Tim. 4. Conc. Florent Constant ColonieÌ„ se Trident. D. There be these seuen Baptisme Confirmation Euchariste or CoÌ„munion Penaunce Extreme vnction Order and Matrimonie M. VVho ordained these Sacramentes and vvhy D. Christ our Sauiour that by them he might communicate his grace and merites of his holy passion vnto vs. M. Hovv are the Sacramentes to be receiued D. VVith true repentance of other sinnes and confessinge them allso if the party be in mortall sinne hovvbeit in baptisme because it is the gate or entrance to the rest confession is not required M. Are all these Sacramentes to be receiued of euery Christian man of necessity D. No forsooth for order and matrimonie are both voluÌ„tary but the rest cannot be omitted vvithout sinne vvhen tyme requireth they should be taken M. And may these Sacramentes be receiued more then once D. Sir Baptisme and confirmation or bishoppinge and order cannot but once onely by reason of the Character vvhich these three doe imprinte in oure soules the rest may accordinge as just cause shal be offered often be receiued especially confession and communion ought to be much frequented for the greate neede vve haue of them M. I vvoulde faine knovve of you some reason of the number of the Sacramentes and vvhy they are seuen D. The reason vvhy they are seuen is this Because God in gyuinge vs spirituall lyfe vvoulde proceede as he is vvonte in gyuinge lyfe corporall in the vvhich vvee see that first it is necessarie to be borne into this vvorlde to thâ— vvhich aunsvveareth baptisme vvhereby vve are borne by grace vnto God The second necessary thinge for this our corporall lyfe is grovvth or strengthe to the vvhich aunsvveareth confirmation vvhereby the grace vvee receiued in baptisme is increased and fortified The thirde is to be nourished vvhich in spirite is done by the holy Sacramente of the altare The fourth is to bee cured vvhen a man is sicke to the vvhich aunsvveareth penaunce vvherby grace once loste is recouered The fift in the tyme of combate to be armed against the enemie to the vvhich aunsvveareth extreme vnction in the hovvre of death vvhat tyme our infernall enemie doth most assaulte vs. The sixt is that there be some to rule and gouerne men that are nevv borne and increased vvhich in spirituall lyfe is performed by holy order or priesthoode The seuenthe that there bee some vvhich attende to the multiplyenge of mankinde vvhich in the Church allso is necessary in respecte of the faithfull and is by the Sacramente of matrimony vvith revereÌ„ce deceÌ„cie accoÌ„plished M. I vvoulde knovve allso of you touchinge baptisme vvhat is necessarie for the perfecte ministringe thereof and vvhether any but a priest may baptize D. It belongeth principally to the priest or to some other in holy orders in the priestes absence but in daunger of deathe it beloÌ„geth to any other maÌ„ or vvomaÌ„ thei may fully discharge it yeat no vvomaÌ„ ought to doe it if a maÌ„ be presente And for the perfecte manner of baptisme vvhich is good that all meÌ„ should knovve are required these three thinges first that the person that doth baptize haue intentioÌ„ to gyue truely this SacrameÌ„te as Christe hath appointed it and to vvante this vvittingelie vvere a moste greeuous sinne Secondly is required to vvashe or sprinckle the childe vvith true and naturall vvater Thirdly at the selfe same tyme vvhen the vvater is povvred of the childe baptized to saye vvith all these vvordes I doe baptize thee in the name of the father of the sonne and of the holy ghoast M. And vvhy are Godfathers and Godmothers vsed in this baptisme D. To solemnize and assure the better this moste necessarie Sacramente and to aunsvveare in the childes behalfe to those quaestions vvhich the prieste doth aske him vvhervppon grovv and follovv these tvvo obligations the one that the Godfather and Godmother haue care to instructe theire Godchilde in matters of faith good manners vvhen the parentes therein should fayle The seconde is that by vertue of this action the parentes of the child the childe him selfe and they coÌ„tracte a spirituall kinred in vvhich respecte grovveth prohibition of mariage betvvixte the sayde persons though this spirituall impedimente bee not extended to so manie degrees as betvvixte those that haue naturall kinred M. Then tell me the effectes of these Sacramentes in particulare The Effectes of the SacrameÌ„tes vvhat is first the effecte of baptisme D. It maketh a man become the childe of God and inheritoure of paradise it cancelleth all sinnes and filleth the soule vvith grace and spirituall giftes M. VVhat is the effecte of confirmation or bishoppinge D. It doth fortifie a man that he haue no feare to confesse the faith of Christ our lord and so maketh vs become true souldioures of our Sauioure M. And vvhat effecte doth the holy Euchariste vvorke D. It nourisheth charitie vvhich is the lyfe of the soule and doth encrease the same euerie day more and more and so gyueth strenghth againste veniall sinnes allso M. VVhat is then the effecte of penaunce D. It doth release the sinnes committed after baptisme and doth make a man returne to the frendshippe of God sinne hauinge made vs his enemies M. VVhat is the effecte of extreame vnction D. It doth vvipe avvay the reliques of sinne it fortifieth the soule in that last combate vvith the deuill and it helpeth to restore the bodily health if it be profitâ—ble for the healthe of the soule M. And vvhat effecte hath the Sacramente of order D. In it is gyuen povvre to consecrate the B. Sacrament of Eucharistia and to minister the other Sacramentes to the people and vvith all it gyueth vertue and grace to priestes and others that haue taken orders to doe and execute vvell they re office M. Laste of all vvhat is the effecte of matrimonie D. It gyueth vertue and grace to theÌ„ vvhich lavvfully are ioyned to liue in mariage estate vvith peace and coÌ„corde and to breed Ephes 5. 2. Cor. 7. bringe vp they re children in the feare of God to the end they may haue comforte of theÌ„ both in this vvorlde and in the nexte M. You haue aunsvveared verye sufficieÌ„telie touchinge these pointes but because oure aduersaries pike many quarrels at these
SacrameÌ„tes vvhich in deed they denie I vvoulde be glad allso to heare hovv you caÌ„ aunsvveare some fevv quaestions concerninge the same and firste hovv baptisme is ministred to children and infantes vvhich knovv not vvhat they receaue or take vvhen they are Christened D. Sir the reason heerof is the greate necessitye vvhich there is of baptisme because vvhosoeuer dyeth vvithout it or desire at least of it cannot enter into the Kingedome of heauen Io. 3. and because younge children are tender and in daunger to die vvith greate facilitie beinge not of capacitie to desire baptisme it is necessarie to Christen them vvith all speed possible and allbeit they knovv not vvhat they take the Churche doth supplye by they re Godfathers and Godmothers vvhat in them vvanteth vvhich is sufficiente for as by meanes of Adam vve fell into sinne and disgrace of God all though vve then knevv nothinge of it so God is contented that by meanes of Christes Churche and baptisme vve shoulde be deliuered from sinne and returne into his grace allbeit vve knovv nothinge nor thincke not of it M. And vvhat mysterie is there in it that in Confirmation the forehead of the partie confirmed is annointed D. Because as in baptisme by the vvater and vvashinge is signified that the grace of God doth cleÌ„se the soule from the spottes of all sinne so in confirmation by annointinge is represented the effecte of Gods grace vvich doth as it vvere annointe the soule to comforte and strengtheÌ„ the same againste the Deuill that therby he may vvith the more courage confesse the Catholique faith vvithout feare of any tormentes or death it selfe vvhen it shoulde be offered and therfore it oughte to be gyuen as soone as the childe is come to the vse of reason because then he beginneth to professe the faith and hath need to be confirmed and established in it allbeit vvhen this Sacramente for juste causes cannot be administrated as sometymes in greeuous persecutions of the Church it happeneth it is to be noted that this Sacracramente is not absolutelie necessarie to saluation M. And hath this Sacramente any other effecte D. It hath for it imprinteth in the soule of man a marcke vvhich the diuines call a Character vvhich can neuer be extinguished and is the cause vvhy this Sacramente can neuer be but once receaued as before hath been specified that as by the Character of baptisme a man is knovvne to be a Christian that is of CHRISTES familie so by this he may be knovvne to be one of CHRISTES souldiours vvhich allvvayes câ—â—e the coloures or badge of they re captayne vvherevvppon it follovveth that they vvhich after they haue receaued this Sacramente goe to hell shall haue moste deepe confusion for euerye one shall see that they had made profession to be souldioures of CHRISTE and yeat aftervvardes rebelled so dishonourablye againste him M. But tell me allso touchinge the blessed Sacramente of the altare hovv it commeth to passe that CHRISTE beinge reallye there yeat vve seeme to see small touche and taste the same bread or vvine that before as farre as sence can lead vs. D. TransubstaÌ„tiation You say vvell sence for reason faith and religion teach vs other vvise vvherfore allso this Sacramente is called of some the Sacramente of faithe aboue all other because no sence but that of hearinge Rom. 10. by vvhich faith is taughte vs hath any true judgemente of this mysterie no other vvise then by the Scripture vve knovv that Lots vvyfe vvas chauÌ„ged in to a piller of salte and yeat retained the shape of a vvoman and therfore as then in that mutation or conuersion vvas chaunged the substance of Lots vvyfe vvithin yeat remayned the figure vvithout so in this mysterie the invvarde substance of bread or vvine is truely chaunged and transmuted into the reall bodye and bloud of oure Sauioure and yeat remayne outvvardlie the figures and formes of bread and vvine as before vvhich allthough it seeme straunge especiallye in that pointe that so great a bodye or person shoulde stande vnder so small a forme and accidente as is that of the hoste consecrated yeat to Gods omnipotence nothinge is impossible Matth. 19. as him selfe sayde of a camell that God could make to passe throughe the eye of a needle thoughe to men it seeme alltogeather impossible and if vve reflecte vvith attention vppon the naturall actions of mans bobye and soule vve shall finde manie that vvill seeme no lesse straunge then this and manie effectes that be euidente though vve cannot vvell comprehende hovv they be doen as for example hovv so greate bodies as cities seas and mountaynes and the like in theire vvhole exteÌ„sion or greatnesse are compreheÌ„ded and lodged in so litle a compasse as a mans eye yea vvhich is more in the verie pointe vvhere the eye doth exercise his operation and in a mans memorie vve finde sufficiente roome and capacitie for a vvhole vvorlde vvhereat Sainte Austen himselfe did so vvonder D. Aug. libr. 10. confess admiringe Gods vvorckes so incomprehensible vnto vs. M. And coulde you gyue some suche other similitude vvherby it may be declared hovv the bodye of oure Sauioure may stande in so manye diuers places at there are hostes in diuers altares D. Trulye sir in Gods vvorckes it is not necessarie to vnderstande them but it is sufficiente to beleeue them for vve are sure that God cannot deceyue vs yeat can I gyue an example allso of the same for oure soule it is certayne that it is but one aloâ—e in the vvhole bodye and all the partes therof vvhole and all in the head and vvhole and all in the feet yea vvhole and all in euerie toe or finger and anie other the least parcell of oure bodye hovv then should it seeme incredible that God shoulde be able to doe that vvith the bodye of his soÌ„ne vvhich vve see he hath allreadie done vvith the soule in oure bodyes puttinge it in so manye so differente and so distante partes of the same and vve see in the same lookinge glasse vvherin firste vve coulde see but one vvhole sace after it is broken into an hundred diuers peeces it serueth beinge the same glasse to represente the same face and that all at once in an hundred differeÌ„te parcells and places and if you vvill haue an other example no lesse familiare then harde to be vnderstoode hovv it is doen the same voyce of a man that speaketh is hearde entyre and vvhole and receaued all at once into the eares of an huÌ„dred thovvsande persons if so many be presente M. But I desire to knovve of you allso vvhether vvhen Christe coÌ„meth into the hoste he forsake his place in heauen to come to the altare or remayne yeat in both places D. To this I aunsvveare that he remayneth in both places and neuer moueth from his place in heauen no more then the soule of a childe vvhich is yeat but a foote longe vvhen the same childe is become a man of fiue or sixe
tell D. Very vvell 〈◊〉 it is nothinge els but a forme of recitinge the Pater noster and Aue Marie vnder a certayne number for the exercise of oure deuotion to CHRISTE and oure B. Ladie and as there be diuers manners of recitinge these prayers so haue they allso diuers names as the Corona vvhich is in honoure of the. 63. yeares vvhich oure Ladie liued in this vvorlde the Rosarie vvhich is in honoure of the Mysteries of CHRISTES lyfe and Passion to the number of 50. three tymes repeated sayenge 10. Aue Maries for euerie Pater noster M. And vvhy say you so many Aâ—e Maries so fevv Pater nosters D. This no doubte vvas firste instituted accordinge to the deuotion of the inueÌ„tor or firste author of this forme of prayer but because the greate Patriarche Saint Dominicke did in his tyme recommeÌ„de this forme of prayer to all Catholikes againste the haeretiques of his tyme it hath euer since been in especiall estimatioÌ„ moste frequeÌ„telie vsed of all Christians the Catholicke Church hauinge euer this custome to gyue more honoure reuereÌ„ce to those thinges vvhich are moste â—mpugned by her aduersaries as may appeare in the greate honoure is exhibited to the holie Crosse the B. Sacramente and the mother of God vvhome heretiques haue allvvayes especiallye blasphemed and impugned And allbeit the number of the Aue Maries be greater yeat doth yt nothinge derogate from the seruice of God seinge all is principallye and finallye directed and referred to his honoure M. And is there any reason vvhy they shoulde be ten rather then nine or eyghte or anye other number D. None but that I haue specified excepte peraduenture because this number allso in Scripture is sometymes esteemed as sacred and somevvhat appropriated to holye thinges as beinge the perfection and summe of all primitiue numbers for the vvhich cause some note that the Magnificat vvhich oure B. Ladie sange vvith suche exultation of the holye ghoaste conteyneth juste ten versicles and is therfore compared to that decachorde or instrumente of ten stringes vvherevvith her progenitoure Kinge Dauid vvas so delighted M. But vvere these numerall Mysteries thincke you the cause vvhy this forme of prayer vvas instituted D. I thincke not trulye for allbeit these mysteries be verye conueniente and helpe oure deuotion yeat I haue hearde that the true beginninge of these nuÌ„bers in prayenge vvas to helpe oure memorie therby to discharge this exercise vvith more facilitie and certaintie M. Haue you any example in the Scriptures or Ecclesiasticall Histories vvherby this matter may be authorized for the sectaries doe verye injuriouslye speake of it D. No vvonder sir for they herein follovv that spirite of pride and impietie vvhich leadeth theÌ„ more blinded in greater matters allso but vve are litle to regarde vvhat enemies of deuotion and vertue calumniate so longe as vve are sure the vvisedome of holye Church approueth oure doinges and it is euidente in the Scripture that Dauid did seuen tymes a daye praye Psal 118. and prayse God and Daniel three tymes euerye day adored tovvarde the holye citie Saint Bartholomevv vve read did bovv his knees to pray an hundred tymes in euerye Dan. c. 6. ver 10. 24. hovvres and Ecclesiasticall aunciente histories recorde some 1300. yeares since of an heremite called Paulus vvhich did carye Pallad ad Lausum sect 20. 21. Niceph. l. 11. c. 36. Cassiod lib. 8. tripart cap. 1. 300. litle stones in a scrippe aboute his necke of purpose to helpe his memorie in discharginge the taske of prayers vvhich he had appointed him selfe to recite euerie day to Gods honoure and Saint Macarius vvas vvonte besides his other laboures to say euerie day an 100. particulare prayers a certayne Virgen of the same tyme. 700. all vvhich had need of some suche instrumente to helpe they re memorie and novv allso to this day the religious heremites of Camaldoli in Hetruria vse the Corone or beades of 33. Pater nosters and so manye Aue Maries in honoure of the yeares vvhich CHRISTE liued in this vvorlde and some haue not amisse noted the proportion that there are juste so manye syllables in the Aue Marie vvhich the Church novv vseth as there are Aue Maries in the Corona of oure ladye vvhich are 63. as hath been spoken M. VVhy vvere it not enoughe to saye once the Pater noster and Aue Marie can not God as vvell heare vs vvith one as vvith an hundred prayers D. This objection is ordinarie to protestantes as vvell in this as in many other matters the diuell beinge an enemie to much prayer and therfore vvoulde fayne haue it quickelie concluded but this vvas not the spirite of oure Sauioure vvhich vvatched vvhole nightes in prayer to gyue vs example nor of the Prophete Dauid Hieremie especiallye vvho seem to be delighted vvith repeatinge the same manner of speache vvhen it vvas suche as pleased theÌ„ vvas to the purpose as particularlie in the Psalmes is euideÌ„te vvhere nothiÌ„ge is more ordinarie vsuall then to say sometymes euerie seconde verse And his mercye is for euermore M. I need no farther ansvveare for this let vs passe to some other matter ⧠Of the Seuen Capitall ⧠Sinnes CHAP. IX M. VVELL novv let vs speake of sinne Seuen Capitall Sinnes Vide Cassian Collat. 5. l. 5. Greg. l. 31. moral cap. 3â— Chrysos hom 43. ad popul Antioch Prosper ad Demetr l. 3. de vita conteÌ„platiua cap. 2 Greg. lib. 23. moral c. 7. lib. 34 cap. 17 17. Isidor l. 2. de summo beâ—â— c. 31. Bern. de gradibus humilit Câ—ss degriâ—cip vit tell me hovv many kinde of sinnes are there D. Tvvo that is originall and actuall M. VVhat is originall sinne D. It is that sinne vvherevvith vve are borne and haue as it vvere by inheritance from our firste father Adam and is purged by baptisme M. And actuall sinne hovv is it diuided D. In to mortall and veniall and of mortall some cry for vengeance to heauen and they are 4. some are againste the holye ghoaste and they are 6. and some are called Capitall and are 7. M. VVhich are the .7 deadly sinnes and vvhy are they called Capitall or deadly D. They are these pride couetousnes lechery vvrath glotony enuye and slouth vvhich are called deadly or mortall not because they are allvvayes damnable for they may be so sleyght in some circumstance as they vvoulde be but veniall but because they are the rootes or heades of all other and are the principall and therefore called capitall M. VVhat is the difference betvveene a mortall sinne and a veniall D. A mortall sinne doth kill the soule depriuinge it of Gods grace and loue vvhich is a kinde of spirituall lyfe inducinge lyfe euerlastinge But a veniall sinne doth onely vveaken Gods grace in vs and dispose the soule to further euill vvhich is to vvaxe cold in Gods seruice and loue M. VVhy is it called veniall D. Because it is more